Short Wave - The Indicator: Take A Penny, Leave A Penny, Get Rid Of The Penny

Episode Date: December 18, 2025

In November, the U.S. stopped production of the humble penny after 232 years in circulation. On today’s show, Darian Woods and Wailin Wong from NPR's daily economics podcast The Indicator unpack the fiscal math that doomed the penny, and an artist pay tribute to this American icon. Follow the Indicator on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. View more of Robert Wechsler’s artwork here.Listen to every episode of Short Wave sponsor-free and support our work at NPR by signing up for Short Wave+ at plus.npr.org/shortwave.Listen to Short Wave on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

Hey, everyone. Just a word before today's episode. 2025 is almost over. And at NPR and our local stations, we are excited to begin a new year. This year was tough. The loss of federal funding for public media, attacks on the free press. But despite it all, we are not shying away from our jobs. From exercising the critical right to editorial independence guaranteed by the First Amendment. With your support at NPR, we will continue our work without fear or favor.

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So end the year on a high note and invest in a public service that matters to you. Visit plus.npr.org today. Thank you. You're listening to Shortwave from NPR. Hey, shortwaver's Emily Kwong here. Tis the season of giving. And we are giving you a little extra something to listen to today an episode from our podcast, Cousins, NPR's economics show, The Indicator. Now this piece you're about to hear is all about the penny.

Why this innocent piece of currency may soon be a thing of the past. This episode's got a little science, it's got a little math, it's got fun penny facts. We think you'll like it. And we'll be back with our regular show tomorrow. In the meantime, give the indicator a follow. There's a link in our episode notes. Okay, here are Waylon Wong and Darien Woods. I'm Darian Woods.

And I'm Whalen Wong. Pennies are everywhere. They're between our couch cushions and on the floor of our cars. They're in fountains and junk drawers. and there's even a penny on Mars. If there is, like, other life out there, that's the thing maybe that they would find about the United States. Christina Shutt is the executive director of the Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library and Museum in Springfield, Illinois. And if some alien were to pick up that penny on Mars, it would be holding an artifact from 1909.

That's the year that the penny's design was changed to put Abraham Lincoln on it. And fun fact, he was the first American president. to be put on a circling coin. If the one thing that some other life form knows about us is Abraham Lincoln, that's a pretty good representation of what's the best of us, right? And so, I don't know, that's kind of cool to me. So the penny with its image of Lincoln has made it all the way to outer space. But it has also reached a different kind of final frontier.

Last month, the U.S. government minted the very last penny. There are still around 300 billion pennies in circulation. That's almost nine bucks for every person in the U.S. But the coin's 232-year run is coming to an end. On today's show, we trace the penny's long decline and pay tribute to this humble bit of American currency. We wanted to talk to somebody who was there when the penny first started to become a problem.

So we called up Ed Moy. And when we got him on the line, he didn't waste any time. It is really nice to meet you. and get you on the phone. So I would give you a penny for your thoughts, except that pennies are worth four cents. So you're getting a bonus. You have the penny jokes coming already, and I love it.

Ed served as the director of the U.S. Mint from 2006 to 2011. The Mint is the government office in charge of making money. Literally, it produces and circulates currency. Ed's interesting coins started way before he joined the government. His immigrant parents ran a Chinese restaurant when he was growing up, and he started manning the cash register at age 10. When I was bored, I would paw through the change drawer and pick out coins that looked all silver or just unusual designs.

And that began kind of a lifelong interest in the coin area. And this is the story about America. Little that I know that fast forward, 40 years later, I would become director of the United States Mint. The job of the Mint is to make enough circulating coins to meet demand within the economy. And Ed says the office tries to do this at no cost to the taxpayers. And that means it shouldn't cost more to make a coin than the face value of that coin.

The best case scenario is when a coin's face value is more than the production cost. Then the government makes a profit. There's even a special term for that profit, seniorage. This money goes to the Treasury's general fund to help pay down the national debt. In 2006, Ed's first year on the job, the U.S. Mint was making money on dimes, quarters, and dollar coins, but it was losing money on nickels and pennies. In fact, 2006 was the first year that the cost of making a penny went above one cent. Ed remembers it going to 1.4 cents.

This is the run-up toward the financial crisis, and the economy was still kind of hot in 2006, so a basement. metals started increasing in price, and all of a sudden, this penny that was made of 97.5% zinc, 2.5% copper, started creeping up above one penny to make. So I started consulting with Congress saying costs are going up. Congress has the constitutional authority to regulate currency, and Ed remembers that lawmakers did not see the increasing cost of penny production as an urgent problem. Producing coins was still profitable overall. And losses from the penny then and now were super small compared with the federal budget. You know, a $80 million loss. It's a rounding year of a

rounding year in the federal government. Yeah, so the federal budget is around $7 trillion. So 80 million out of $7 trillion. That's like one cent, one penny out of $875. Still, Congress gave Ed the green light to study cheaper ways to make the penny. And he considered some alternatives, but they didn't pan out. Swapping in a cheaper metal like steel would still cost more than one cent per penny. And switching to non-metallic materials was also impractical. Ed left the mint in 2011. He didn't get to finish that study on what to do with the penny. And by then, the cost of making it had gone from around 1.4 cents to 2.4 cents. Demand for pennies was also declining as people used less care.

That was up to my successor to deliver that report to Congress. And every other successor has had to deal with this problem. By last month, when the mint announced it was producing the last penny, the cost to make the coin was 3.7 cents. Ed says he understands why the government finally made the call. It wasn't a surprise that eventually someone's going to have to make that decision. We have enough pennies. it's time to end the production of pennies.

A lot of people are totally over the penny. They throw them away or just let them sit around in jars. But we did find someone who really treasures this little guy. My name is Robert Wexler, and I'm an artist, and for more than two decades now, I've been focusing on the U.S. penny, and I just finished 100,000 penny cube. Robert cut notches into 100,000 pennies. Then he slid them together to,

to form a 3D lattice. The sculpture took him seven years to finish, and it's on display at Wellesie College in Massachusetts. I was worried that the penny would be canceled and removed from currency before I finished, because if I finished the piece after that, it would be nothing but a memorial to the penny. And I didn't like that idea,

because for me, it has a lot more to say. This coin has fascinated Robert ever since he was a kid, and his grandfather would pretend to pull a penny out of his evening, He kept those coins in an orange Tupperware container because they felt magical to him. For his art, Robert needs a lot more than Tupperware containers of pennies. So he orders them in bulk from his bank. They really don't like doing it because they're heavy and they take up space in the vault.

And they insist that you pick them up immediately. But they can't tell you when they're going to arrive because they don't want you to know when their bank truck is going to be there because for security reasons. Oh, my gosh, because what if you pulled off a heist? Exactly. So you just have to be on call for when the pennies arrive. Right. The hassle is worth it for Robert, though. He still finds Wander in the Penny.

They're these, like, lowly gutter things. You know, they live in muck and they're exposed to unspeakable filth. But that has this incredible effect in that they do turn blue and green, but they also turn, like, these spectacular oranges and reds or these, like, really lovely, waxy black. And it's so unique and special. And just it's like a little world. So what's to become of all the pennies still circulating in the world? Well, Robert will take them to use in his art.

Former U.S. Mint Director Ed Moy saves them in a coin jar until he has enough to deposit at the bank. And back at the Lincoln Museum in Illinois, volunteers set out pennies for school children to find on the ground. Executive Director Christina Shutt says they've given away more than 200,000 pennies in the last couple of decades. It's really cute seeing kids like three and four years running around the plaza looking for the penny to find it.

And it gives the volunteers great delight and joy because then they get an opportunity to talk about how Lincoln really is everywhere. He's coming out of your ear. That will explain the waxy patina that Robert's finding. The black wax. Unspeakable filth, Darien. You know what, though?

The gift shop at the Lincoln Museum no longer accepts pennies. How about Nichols? I hear these lose even more. more money now than the penny did. Yeah, last year it cost the mint close to 14 cents to produce a nickel. That's more than double its face value. So, I don't know, maybe we'll do a nickel o'bitt next year.

Dropping like flowers. This episode was produced by Julia Ritchie with engineering by Sophie MacArthur. It was fact-checked by Corey Bridges. Kaking Cannon is the show's editor and The Indicator is a production of NPR.