Should I Delete That? - 2021 Round Up!

Episode Date: December 27, 2021

Welcome to 'Should I Delete That?' In this Christmas cracker of a first episode, Em and Alex look back on 2021 month-by-month. They discuss standout news stories and share memorable moments from their personal lives. Listen out for more episodes from Em and Alex, coming up in the new year!Follow us on Instagram @shouldideletethatEmail us at [e-mail] by Butternut Box - visit www.butternutbox.com/alexandem for 50% off your first two boxesProduced & edited by Daisy GrantMusic by Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I am so delighted to tell you that our very first episode is sponsored by Butternut Box, which is our dogs, Betty and Buwer's favourite food company. So Butternut Box is a fresh dog delivery service that arrives direct to your door and it takes into consideration all of your dog's dietary needs. We love Butternut Box not only because our dogs literally wolf it down twice a day, but because the company all started with a rescue dog called Rudy. And the brand has charity partners and they donate meals to all of their dogs in shelter. They also even donate freezers, which is amazing. And they didn't tell me to include this, by the way. This is just extra. But I love that fact about them. And it's a huge part of the reason that we love and support

the brand so much. Anyway, if you want to try button up box out for your dog, they will love it. I can guarantee. You can get 50% off your first two boxes with code Alex and M. That's code Alex and M. Enjoy. Hi everyone and welcome to an as-of-yet unnamed podcast. My name is M Clarkson and I am here with my co-host. Do you do a drum roll? My co-host, Alex Light. Hi, as M said, yes, we have no name yet.

It's to be determined. But we are very excited to be bringing you this brand new podcast. It's going to be full of. of basically our opinions, our changing opinions, stuff that's going on in the world that we've got a strong opinion on, basically loads of opinions. Not just ours. Not just ours, crucially, and thankfully, not just ours,

as complete our experts in pretty much everything. Yeah. Yeah, we definitely want this. This is a conversation, this is a chance for us to have a conversation, for us to talk stuff through. We want nuance. Alex and I both feel, I think, that we lack a lot of nuance. on social media and often the conversations that we have are just really hard to have and we

want to find a way and a safer space of opening it up so that's what we're doing yeah and we're going to be trying to like break down shame around stuff that so many of us feel shame around opening up conversations talking to experts and asking them your questions as well so we're going to ask you to submit questions to each expert that we get on hopefully please come on our show. No experts arrive. I feel like we're like

jack of some trades master of non. Yeah, so welcome to this podcast. To be fair, to be totally honest, this podcast is not a representation of what we have planned next year. We will be back in January in 2022 with a

well-structured, thought-out potentially scripted good podcasts that we're proud of. This, this won't be that. But it's basically, it's a lot of us hashing stuff out, essentially. Yeah, this podcast is a roundup of 2021. As M said, there will be, when we return, so think of this as the intro episode, right?

Like a pilot episode. But when we're just basically, we're assuming that you're really bored because it's between Christmas and New Year, so you'll listen to any old shit. That's what we've been counting on for this, right? In January, we know you're busy people, you've got stuff to do. You'll want to listen to something good in January, and we will provide that for you. Yeah, so we actually, and I feel like we have a lot of conversations about really good, interesting stuff that I think will be valuable to, like, hash out in an open forum and get people on to help us as well. In the interest of being honest and candid, we can speak obviously a lot.

You know, some of the things that we talk about on social media, it would be amazing to be able to talk about it in a more conversational way, but it's difficult because social media does like nuance. Yes. So that's what we're kind of really excited to be able to do here is really actually just get into stuff and talk about the things that we really struggle with on social media because it can be difficult to have a proper conversation. So that's going to be really fun. We do need to stress that if nobody listens to this

and if everybody or alternatively, if people do listen to it and despise it, we won't be back in January. And you have to ignore everything that you heard about our big structured plans for 2022 because they won't be happy. They will be cancelled. 2022 will be cancelled. We're going to delete this episode and it'll be like, it'll be like all in your head.

You'll be like, do you remember when you did that episode? I'd be like, no, what? What episode? Are you okay? Yeah, a lot of mulled wine at Christmas. You're okay, hon? No episode happens will not have happened. So you better love it.

Right, let's get into it. Let's kick off. 2021, let's go. Should we start with, well, January? Oh my God. What an original thought. I know, revolution. You're such a trend setter, my God.

I feel like you should tell someone that. But that diaries next year will starting in January. It's unreal. That's wild. Yeah, exactly. So January, we're going to start with a topic that you, I know that you wrote a lot about on your Instagram, and that was the scandal around Zoella and the sex toys.

So basically, Zoe Sog, who is a very famous YouTuber, has a website called Zoella, and unbeknownst to them, they'd actually been included on a GCSE curriculum, but when the GCSE curriculum found out that they had an article about the best sex toys on their website, they scrapped it from the GCSE curriculum. They dropped it. And obviously, this caused a lot of controversy.

It became a really interesting question around female pleasure and the lack of conversation surrounding that. in sexual education. And this lit a fire in me. I didn't even know. Like, I did not know I felt so passionately about the female orgasm until, like, there I was. Because I saw this, it was the front page of the times.

And there were a few factors at play. The first one being, Zoe is a 30-year-old, or what was a 30-year-old woman. And to talk about a sex toy, you know, the way that it was written about was like it was like the biggest, like they might as well have written the, like, letter A and scarlet on her forehead.

Yeah. But of course then there was a more nuanced conversation around like, hey, well, do parents or teachers want kids reading about sex toys? And I wrote a piece for Cosmo about it very much on the side that there does need to be a serious change around the way that we talk about female pleasure. And why? Why? When you look at sexual education in schools, I mean, it's so lacking. And something that I find just, I mean, oh my God, there's so much, how do I even start with this? I never learned about the female orgasm.

I never learned about the clitoris. I never learned at any point that women could enjoy sex. We know boys do. We know that. Because when they ejaculate, they're done. When a woman is pregnant, she's done. Like that was the point of sex as far as my sexual education went. I saw a woman giving birth in a VCR video.

Did you? Yeah, in like 2001. Wow. Yeah, it was a lot. And that was the only time I ever saw a real vagina in school. Wow. Which is actually incredible. Which is incredible.

Because that's like the purpose of women as far as school dictates. Yeah. Yeah. And like, yeah, that's... Your purpose is to be pregnant. And I actually, on a much heavier note, I think this is indicative of like a lot of, stinky shit because

if dead professional firm yeah exactly indicative was such a good word as well I know you just like totally shout

but I I think on a on a serious note if you don't teach a woman or a girl how to enjoy sex then what are you teaching her

because the kind of other side of that is you're teaching her not to enjoy it And if women are being sent out to have sex, they don't enjoy, or girls, I think that's quite a distressing message. If the expectation is that you won't enjoy it, there is a very grey area around consent and power. And I find that very distressing that neither boys nor girls are ever taught how to give and how to help a girl enjoy sex. and I think if they don't know how to enjoy it then they just know that they won't

and we're taught that it's going to be painful do you know what I've actually never thought about that point until you just made it now the fact that if we teach girls that you know there's no pleasure in it for them that's actually really a really troubling isn't it yeah that's got really troubling consequences yeah a hundred percent yeah and that's something

I've never thought about it like that I can understand the parental perspective of like, obviously we don't want to teach our 14-year-olds how to use a dildo, like fair. But there has to be somewhere between dildo tutorials and only talking about babies and ejaculation. Yeah, you need to like find the grey area. Yeah. So what's the alternative?

If society doesn't like women that enjoy sex, do they want women to not enjoy sex? And that's gross. Right. Right? Just like sit up and shut up and put up with it. Yeah. Just lie back.

What did they say? Lie back and think of England. Yeah. Most women can't orgasm during penetration alone. Right. And with that in mind, I think young boys, I suspect they probably want to know how to pleasure a girl. Right? It's cool for a guy to be good at sex, right?

They want to be good at sex. And most boys and people, and I know I'm talking in an incredibly heteronormative way here, but that's the way the curriculum. is unfortunately at the moment. But most boys will want to be good at sex, right? Yeah, definitely. And it's kind of important that they are because otherwise when girls are going to be having sex,

they don't enjoy. And as we've said, that's got troubling consequences. So, I mean, maybe, like, I don't know, like, fingering 101 probably isn't going to get out to the curriculum any time soon. But there's got to be, there's got to be a... Just more conversation around it. And, like, that seemed like such a bold move.

Like, it wasn't like the sex toy article was being read out in schools, you know. It just existed on the website, which was a website for women. Yeah. For women empowerment. And that's a part of it. Like, it just seemed crazy that it was like they were, like you say, just like branding, like shame across her. You know, like, this is shameful. Yeah.

And I think, but like, why not, why not let that exist and why not let. Particularly given how much boys talk about porn and how much that's an accept. part of our society it did feel like a massive overreaction it was a massive overreaction yeah and it was

it felt like a very antiquated reaction but there is nothing wrong with you know young girls of the you know so 16 you are when you do GTC right there is nothing wrong with them

like having sex toys and exploring their sexuality if we acknowledge that they are having sex which we know that they are because how many shows in this, teen mom is one of MTV's most popular shows. It is widely acknowledged that teenagers are having sex. So if we accept that teenagers are having sex, can we please make sure it's sex that women are enjoying?

Right. That's how I feel about that. Right. Agreed. And I actually think the scandal was hugely positive because it brought this out into the open. And I think it really at least acknowledge the disparity between how we talk about sex for men and women, you know, and like boys and girls.

So January was actually pretty cool. Yeah, so, I mean... Also, you're not going to let me mention it. If I don't mention it myself, my personal news of January, what did I do? I, like, never mentioned it. Did you... I feel like you probably ran an ultramarathon.

I just needed you to say, we can go to February now. I hadn't heard. Yeah, that was January. It was a pretty great month. I was amazing. To be fair, that is really cool. I could never do it,

So that was quite a long way. But that's fine. We can talk about February now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Feb was a big month because it was when Megan Markle and Prince Harry confirmed they will not return as working members of the royal family, which was a huge scandal, huge.

I can feel the heckles of people all over the place going up, even to mention that because that was, I found fascinating. It was very contenting. And the conversation around it was a lot. She drew so much criticism for it. She came under so much fire. And it was, you know, it was kind of the gossip of the moment. Like how awful is Meghan Markle?

It was, I thought, indicative of the way that the British press spoke or could control the way we felt about. certain women and it generally is women so I'm just going to preface this conversation by saying whatever your views of Megan Markle are I think to an extent I hope that there can be some agreement that the way she was treated was extraordinary and I remember at the beginning of the month sharing the difference in the way that people spoke about Kate yeah for literally the same thing as they spoke about Megan or how rude Megan was for having her hands in her dress pocket and then alongside

a photo of the queen, I need to find them. No, no, I actually remember this. So I remember this clearly. They put it side by side. So it was when they were both pregnant. So when Kate was pregnant, the headline was Kate Middleton like cradles her baby bump. And then when Megan was pregnant, it was like

headlines slapping her for like her and doing quotes, constant bump holding and like she was accused for doing it for a photo up. And The contrast was so, so, so stark, and I think it was, it showed perfectly, yeah, of how they see women and how they depict women in the media. I found the exact wording of a few of these. Not long, this is the one about Kate. Not long to go, pregnant Kate tenderly cradles her baby bump while wrapping up her royal duties ahead of maternity leave and William confirms she's due any minute now.

Whereas, why can't Meghan Markle keep her hands off her bump? Experts tackle the question that has got the nation talking. Is it pride, vanity, acting or a new age bonding technique? How wild is that? I'm going to keep going because there are so many of these. Go on. Step too far. Megan Markle slammed for putting her hands in her pockets.

Oh, and then just next to it is just a photo of the queen. With her hands in her pockets. Kate's morning sickness cure. Prince William gifted with an avocado for pregnant Duchess. Megan Markle's beloved avocado linked to human rights abuse and drought millennial shame

Oh my God February Personal highlight Gotta mention I got Betty You did My little doggy From Cyprus Who turned our lives upside down

I thought it was I thought like She's this tiny little thing She's just gonna like slot into our lives And turns out we had to like Make new lives around her It's Betty's world now

We're just living it. It is 100% Betty's world. Like she is, she's got me whipped. I am whipped. Oh my good, yeah, you're totally whipped.

Yeah, but they say like you have to be the alpha, blah, blah. I did not bring my dog up well. Anyway, I love her. She gets lots of love,

so whatever. So do you. Betty humps a lot. Yeah, I get a lot of love. You get a lot of love. You get a lot of love. In the form of constant humping.

February was also kind of a big one for my neck up. Yes. And my jaw was broken. You had a super traumatic month. Yeah, a couple of months. Yeah, I was going to say, yeah, it lasted. Yeah, it was like way long in the month.

Because I remember meeting you not long before you had it. And you seemed quite like, blaze about it. You were like, yeah, it's an operation. Like, I did think it would be great. I was so chill. I took six days off work. Six days. I literally, I didn't take anybody to my pre-Ot meetings because I was so chill.

I was like, I know someone's going to ask what happens. it's called. I don't even know what the surgery is called. It's a really long word. Like I buy blah blah. And yeah, that's the technical term. I don't know what they I don't know what they abbreviate that to. But yeah, they had to break my top jaw and then reset it. They broke it into three places. Literally with like a hammer as it turns out. Like they really they give you a conk. And yeah, and then they reset it. And then they just like put like a whole load of like plates and chains and wires and stuff. And then they put it back together again, which was fine. I totally, I was really chilled.

And the third of him was like, okay, like, are you going to be right? Like, it's, you know, and he was kind of like, kind of pushing me to take a bit more seriously. And I was like, no, no, I'll be fine. So I took Alex once, but like I took one of my, my fiance, but I didn't take, I don't know, I was really chill. And then because of COVID, like, I took myself to the hospital, which was weird as well. So I just like just drove myself, well, no, Al drove me in and then just, like, left me. And I just, like, waved him out the window. took a final selfie of my face

and then I was like okay I thought it would be like a two hour operation it was like eight poor Alex because I was like yeah yeah I'd be two hours and then he's like and then I kept thinking like I think I'm gonna die

and he was like you're not gonna die and I was like well you're gonna feel like an idiot if I do die and then after like five hours it's still no word he was like fuck she was right yeah

what a way to go at least I'd have been like vindicated I'd be like yes I knew it yeah and then it was huge yeah and then I Yeah, then they wired my jaw shut

for like a casual six weeks. I looked like a bower bum. You literally couldn't put anything in your mouth. No. It was shit. It was so shit. Yeah, it was so bad. I genuinely, I don't know what I thought it was going to be like,

but I just didn't, I just didn't think. And genuinely, I did the Newsbee interview about the Zoe Sugg thing, like the morning of the operation, I think. Like, I was, no, it was the night before, and then I had like a big tea and then, like, you couldn't eat 12 hours before. But I do wonder, like, I feel like ignorance may be bliss. I don't know, because I guess you do want to be prepared,

but, like, the fact that you underestimated it is possibly better because then you weren't, like, worrying about it. Yeah, because I would, I'm such a, and before my life coaching, and we will get my life coach to be, I guess, on this podcast. But before my coaching, I'd have, like, I wouldn't, I'd have had the worst, like, few months in preparation for that, and I'd have completely, but she just kept saying to me, it's like, well, it's happening.

It's happening. So do I want to sit and spend weeks worrying about it? about it or do I'm just going to be like you know what the surgeon needs to be more worried than me all I've got to do is lie there right like he's got the big job yeah um so I'm just going to chill you're going to have to recover from it whether you're worried about it for months before or not like yeah exactly yes I just buckle up yeah it was fine yeah I mean like I genuinely it wasn't stunning like it wasn't like the best February I've ever had um but you know I felt sorry for you yeah I felt a bit sorry for me too yeah the the the operation was one thing

To be fair, I was on like, because there's an eight hour off, so I was on quite a lot of drugs, which is cool. I'd then go, it's cool, it's fun. There's nothing else to do. It's still the pandemic on. So I was like, woo, morphine. Hi, is it kind. And then, but then I got an infection.

Yes. And that was hell. If you don't know who I am and you want a crash course introduction, go and have a look on my Instagram page. And there's two highlights called My Face and My Face too, and that'll bring you up to speed. So on to March, and we promise to be a bit quicker from now on.

This one is a bit of a heavy one. So 33-year-old woman, Sarah Everard, was kidnapped in South London as she was walking home from a friend's house near Clapham Common. So she was reported missing and then her body was eventually found and it was revealed that she'd been murdered

by Metropolitan Police Officer Wayne Cousins. This was just like unthinkably horrific. and women go missing and are murdered incredibly frequently in the UK and all around the world. And I think maybe for a lot of us, Sarah's disappearance and subsequent murder was, and for me, it was incredibly close to home given that it is literally incredibly close to where I live. But I think it brought home to a lot of women, the danger that we are. in perpetually and I think the fact that it was a police officer that did it was just the most I don't even have a word for it it's vile and that's the people that are supposed to protect us

and and this launched a huge conversation on social media because you're right it was our it was kind of like our worst nightmare playing out like come to life and and Sarah was a normal woman just trying to go home. And she was prevented to do that by the very person that should have been protecting her. It was a reasonable hour as well that she was walking home.

It was like reasonable as in it was still early. But she did it, you know, and I'm going to say she did everything right and I hate this. This is the conversation that subsequently happened was around the victim blaming and all the things that make this world so dangerous actually for women.

And even the way that it was spoken about was yes, she was doing, She was wearing, she stuck to well-lit areas and she was wearing bright coloured clothes and she did everything right and actually it was just, it didn't matter. At the end of the day, it doesn't fucking matter what women do because we are not safe and it doesn't matter how we behave.

You can do everything right. And a policeman can still pull up and pretend to arrest you for breaking lockdown rules. And it's just, it's a truly unthinkable thing that happened. And I found the conversation afterwards, in part the victim blaming to be very distressing, but I think there was a unanimous feeling

of despair, and this wasn't just online, this was in my real life, with my real friends who were so close to this, geographically, emotionally, so many women were just so heartbroken

by this and terrified by this, quite rightly, and something that was a bit horrific to see was that cries of not all men echoed around the internet in the following days and weeks. And that became a really big, again, this was something that I had nothing else to do because my face was all fucked up.

So I just threw myself again into this conversation and I was, I found March really hard because the comments that we had. And it's like we're not playing here. We're not talking about, the patriarchy in the media or, you know, like, you know, the other things that we talk about sometimes or the things that can feel perhaps inconsequential.

But not necessarily life-threatening. Yeah, something that was so real to us. And I think it was just, it's the depths of winter now. We're about to come and have the shortest day next week. I do not leave my house. No. Anymore. No.

After dark. After dark. I got home to Clapham Common Station. actually not long ago and I was with my friends and I ubered I would never have ubered from Clapham Common before

but I just I am not safe in my own city No I'm terrified and that's horrifying It's really shit because we don't have a garden but obviously Betty needs to go out for whee's and poos So Dave

Now at the moment it becomes dark Dave has to do that now Alex always did it in our... Yeah, because I'm just too scared. Yeah, and Alex won't let me. And again, this happened again later in the year, the 28-year-old Sabina Nessa, who was a teacher at 8pm,

who was murdered on the streets of London. Right. And that was a lot because that... I mean, we were going to talk about that as part of September's thing, but I think it's relevant for now because it happened to Sarah and there was a huge public conversation.

Huge. Global. Global. Right. And we begged and we talked. and we talked about it and something had to change and we needed men to help us make it change

and six months later same again and you know what I'm just I'm going to throw myself into this one too yeah it's a few fucking weirdos but a few fucking weirdos get away with it

because they exist in a society that has allowed them to behave monstrously right forever right and the system needs tackling the system needs tackling But the whole like not all men things, a thing, and like, same with, you know, echoes of all lives matter as well.

And I think it just perfectly highlights how, like, humans just have this innate need to make everything about themselves. Yes. You know? Yeah. And just because you're not about, it's the nice guys that were the worst during that time. Because, well, I'm a nice guy and I wouldn't do it. Just because you're a nice guy. Right, right.

And it was just like the lack of comprehension. although like unwilling to comprehend or to really like get stuck in and understand the complexities around it and that it's the system that needs dismantling like it's not just those those men that rape and kill it's like the whole system well there's people who say oh well men get killed too and men get raped to yes you do by other men we can acknowledge here that by and large and yes there are small percentages of women that absolutely

suck and that are terrifying and awful. But by and large, we have to acknowledge a systemic problem. And it's male violence. We're not saying that because you have male privilege, you have an easy life. We're not saying that because you're a man, everything's fucking golden for you by any means. Right. But you can navigate the world without... Your keys between your fingers at night.

Exactly. Exactly. Anyway. Yeah. So March sucks. that was that was a lot yeah so it did suck it was really it was really heartbreaking and it did bring it very it just hit very close to home i think for a lot of us um april the pubs open so we were kind of uh too busy or too drunk to read the news drunk to read the news that was the first outing i took my new face on after my operation oh yeah parbia sat outside yeah

a pint got really tidily because i was like oh yeah never used my tidily a bit of my life by didn't hate it. I've got so tidly. So we're going to skip over April. You'll be pleased to know. And moving on to May, which brings us to Billy Eilish's Vogue cover. And she was wearing lingerie. She was wearing like a corset.

Yeah, it was clasy. Like it was a body. She looked amazing. A bodice. A bodice. Well, I've never had to say that word before. But like it causes uproar because she has like in the past talked very, very openly about her desire to wear baggy clothes and to not be objectified for her body.

So, a reasonable request from a child. A literal child. Yeah. Please, I'm a teenager. Don't objectify me. What a big, boring. What a diva. Yeah, Jesus.

What a dick. So it caused some controversy because the press was like, oh, she's, you know, sold out. She's gone back on herself and, you know, back on her morals on her values, basically because she's wearing lingerie. Specifically, the Daily Mail ran a headline that said, proof that money can make you change your values and sell out. Billy Eilis shocks fans by swapping baggy clothes for lingerie in vogue despite years of vowing to hide her body. I corrected that. Two, proof that women can change their minds and reclaim autonomy over. over their bodies, Billy Eilish Oxfans by swapping baggy clothes for lingerie in vogue

despite years of being an actual child. Big Ars, something that I found fascinating was that Billy Eilish was a teenager, is a teen, is she still a teen, she's 19. So she'd worn baggy clothes forever. And then she decided upon becoming a legal adult to do a, were to just try a different look. I swear to God, if you could see the different looks that I have trialled

over the last few years, you'd be horrified. I've done a lot. What a vile headline proof that money can make you change your values and sell out. Anything can make you change your values for what it's worth. Anyway, that's stupid. It's so disgusting. It's vital. Despite years of

vowing to hide her body. She, the fact that she, let's be real, right, when Britney Spears was 17, she lay on a bed. This is not her fault. This is not blaming Britney. No shame to Brittany. It's just something to acknowledge. There was a photograph taken of her lying on a bed with children's bed sheets on the cover of Rolling Stone.

And it was like come for a tour of Britney Spears' childhood bedroom or something. And she was in lingerie. Right. That is what we expect in this society from teenage girls. Right. That is how we look at them. It's fucking weird. So she hid her body for years because she will have known full well what happens

and what category you get put in as a young woman if you wear less. Right. Right. And then the actually the other article, and I remember this happened a few months before actually. Actually in 2020, do you remember, there was a photo that the Papps got of her in a vest. And the way the world went mad for that image, everyone was like, like, oh, she's this, she's curvy, she's got really big boobs, she's this, she says people call her fat, people said, you know, people said all sorts about her. And it's like, what is happening?

You've got a child in a vest and you've lost your mind. Literally, yeah, chill out. And then she did an, in my opinion, an incredibly classy, like that Vogue shoot was unreal, wasn't it? Just even. Yeah. And you know what? I had a lot of heated conversations with people in my DMs about the Vogue cover, but not for the same reason as your post.

So, you know, a lot of people were saying she looked so much bigger in the in the PAP photo, the one of her in a vest. Like, I feel like she's just tried to make herself look thin for the Vogue. cover, I feel like she's, you know, she's selling out in that sense. And that got me so furious, like, so fucking mad. Like, that is, she was in, it was a completely, uh, unstaged, unedited PAP photo. She had her hair scrape back, like, no makeup on, compared to the cover of Vogue where she's got her hair done, her makeup done, she's wearing a corset, like, and she can look however she wants like that to put the the onus on her to then look a certain way or to continue to be honest it's what to continue looking in their opinion less like it's like they didn't like

that she looked good which is right yeah weird yeah but the whole thing it shouldn't have been it shouldn't have been any of that because it's her own autonomy it's her own body it's her own she can do this and she might hate it and she can go back to wearing a woman can be guys this is like hold on to your hats because i'm going to make a big point oh my god a woman can be more than one thing she can have other dimensions she can contradict herself she can be hypocritical she can change her mind and get this one please she can change it back again no i know the the box that we put women in is so insane. And then that's it. You can't get out of it. Unlucky. We've categorized you now. You wear baggy clothes. Don't even think about changing your mind. This is how we handle

you. A woman can either be pretty or they can be good at singing or a woman can be pretty or they can be funny. And you, Billy Eilish, you are going to wear baggy jumpers. We can't handle you like this. So go back to that. It's actually laughable, isn't it? It's laughable. Like those headlines are laughable. What shocks me is the fact that we went like collectively for so long not questioning and not challenging those headlines. Like it's only with the, you know, social media. Like there's a lot of like, oh, social media is really bad. But actually like a lot of good has come from social media.

And that's us being able to like steer our own, like steer and create our own narratives now rather than just going with the narratives from the press. Yeah. But a few years ago, I probably, you know, headlines like that, I probably would have just read them and not. I'd have been a... I'd have been a bitch. I'd have been one of the... I know it.

I will literally... I want this podcast to... There will be times when I admit to shit that I've done in the past. Everyone's going to be like, ooh. Yeah. Cancel her. Because I would have had these thoughts.

I would have been so like, oh yeah, well, that's just slutty. That's attention seeking. That's just they're selling out. I would have believed that. If you're fed the same thing over and over again, we have been brainwashed. It's conditioning.

We have been conditioned. to dislike women, to dislike powerful women and women making their own decisions and women going their own way and women doing things, not for male approval, but because they want to.

And being autonomous. I found this, the obsession with what Billy wore before, vile, like, oh, what's underneath her baggy clothes? What's you're hiding? What you're hiding? A child's body, that's what she's fucking hiding. Why are you digging around?

It's weird. And then she takes it off and everyone's angry. It's like, what would you have had her do? What would you have had her do? It just highlighted that whole thing to me that you cannot win.

I might be missing something but like Justin Bieber has been incredibly famous for years and years and years now and has anyone ever commented on what he was? I mean I probably have to be like, what are those? But has it ever made global headlines? No, I wouldn't get,

it's wild. Like she can wear whatever the hell she wants. She's famous for her music. but again, it's part of this systemic problem that exists against, you know, with women and that they have to, yeah, like you say, like look, look a certain way, be a certain way. But that you can't win. Like, ultimately, you can't win. You can't win.

None of these women that we've talked about could have won. There is no, I mean, you can win, they can win personally, and I hope they feel like fucking winners. I hope Billy Eilish is sitting in her mansion, surrounded by the classiest fucking clothes she wants, feeling like a true winner. Yeah. Yeah. But societally, she can't win. And that's annoying. Yeah. I'm like, why can't we let women win? Why can't we? Yeah. We don't want to see that. Yeah. And it's so annoying. So, May, personally, like, couple things, my nephew was born, which was amazing and I love him. I'm so obsessed with him. It's called Louie. And he's like the cutest thing ever. And so, yeah, that was really.

And then, like, London launched. Yeah, Alex put out a swimwear collection, which turned into a loungeware collection later of the year. It's been wild. A lot more work than I had anticipated. That's a common trait between the two of us. Yeah, I think so. I just go ahead with things.

I'm too impulsive to, like, actually think about things. And then I'm like, well, I sign myself up for a lot here. Here we are. But it's gone really well. Anything for you, personally? I was supposed to get married in May. You were. So I had a pre-wedding.

I had a pre-wedding. Love that. The restrictions at ease so you could have 30 people outside. So I had, we had our bride and groom parties. Is that why I didn't get an invite? Yeah.

It's fucking awkward. You're not top 30, Alex. I think you just really hold on to that for a few months. I'm kidding. We had just the bridesmaids and the ushers, which was actually really cool because I hadn't seen anyone since my face, but it rained the whole time

so that made me feel a bit better about the fact we'd actually had to postpone. So, yeah, I wore dot Martins. I wore white. Oh, it was. Your dress was very nice. It was my mum's from like the 80s. So, so cool.

So yeah, didn't get married in May. That was May for me. That's your highlight. Didn't get married in May. So June saw Love Island start back up again. We did an interview for the Metro, didn't we? About the glaring lack of body diversity in the line up. That's what we realized what a good duo we were.

I know, yeah. We bounced off each other. We're like, oh, this is starting. We're great. We should do this like for a job. And here we are. Yes, so it was incredibly lacking in body diversity, which is wild because they know by now that we want body diversity

but they just wouldn't give it to us. So that was upsetting. And actually I said at the beginning, during the interview and on my social media, I was like, yeah, I'm going to watch it. And I love it and it's like guilty pleasure and I shouldn't love it, but I do. And I started watching it and I hated it and I just thought, no, I'm out. Yeah. And yeah, for me it was, I just had.

I don't know. I just, I just, I just had enough of it, to be honest. I, I have to admit that I did, I did watch it. Yeah. For me, it's something that's just like, it's such easy watching, like I just switch off. And I did get a lot of backlash for being like, well, you openly, you spoke about against it openly. So like, why do you watch it? And like, fair enough. But also, be a flawed person. Be a flawed person. Right, exactly. I mean, you're not, this is, like, I am a deeply flawed human being and it's annoying that we're not allowed to give space to those horrifying character and to our contradictions. Yeah, exactly. Like, yes, I totally, I did, I did not agree with the

program as in, like, I thought the body diversity was shit and it perpetuates a really harmful message to young women. But sometimes, like, I just enjoyed it. And I like to, like, just switch off from work and not think about anything. Very telling of something we actually said in the interview at the time. There has to be an element of personal response with this. For me, it didn't work for me. Actually, not because of the body diversity, particularly, but because I just feel like the shine has gone, or the lighthearted enjoyment that I took from it very much ceased. But I mean, the show is obviously surrounded by tragedy. Right. Caroline Flack. Paralline Flack, obviously, dying and two of the contestants.

I don't know if it's going to carry on, you know. I don't know how it can. To be honest, I don't know about the viewing figures from this year but I don't feel like it was talked about that much. No. We've all had a lot on to be fair. I know, I know. And we were allowed out in June, well July actually because it's pushed back, wasn't it? So July the 15th

or whenever we were allowed out again. Yeah. But yeah, I just loved it for escapism. I didn't love it. I wasn't watching it like I love it, but it was just my slice of escapism. But I think that's great. When we talk about heavy stuff, you know, like day in, day out sometimes. And I'm lucky that.

I can switch off from that. I know that, but I do like to just switch off sometimes. And that's fine. And I think the thing is, we said at the time, it's like, I actually did a post about it. And it's fine to love love island, but not at the expense of loving yourself. And I think that's what I mean by personal responsibility.

If it makes you feel like shit, which it was making me feel like shit, that's why I didn't watch it. And what would have been foolish is if I'd have watched it knowing that I wasn't enjoying it. Do you know what I mean? So I think there's an element of that to be had with all these things because we do get very angry on social media.

We're like, oh, well, this shouldn't be happening. And it's like, well, it is. So the choice then is what you're going to do. And again, it's the thoughts. It's what you're going to do about it. You're going to watch or you're not. Yes. Yeah.

Because that's ultimately the decision that you've got to make. Yeah. And look at us. We made different decisions. And we're still friends. I'm excited. Wow. Amazing.

I've just got to forgive you for not been invited to the prudding, but it's fine. I'll be fine. I never getting over that. Kidding. In July, we had the Olympics in Tokyo. And gymnastics, superstar and defending Olympic champion, Simone Biles, withdrew from the individual competition to focus on her mental well-being.

And while many praised her for this and for putting, you know, for prioritising her mental health, she also drew a lot of backlash. Why do you think she got a back? If we could, like, look at a pattern of 2021, like, if we learn anything by halfway through the year, why do you think this woman deciding what she wanted to do with her own body and her own mind and laying her own boundaries down. Do you think that might have had something to do with how she offended everybody so much? Did it seem like a reasonable reaction from this world?

Extraordery. Excuse me, like what does she owe anyone? It's extraordinary. And she's American, isn't she? She's American. And all the English people were like, yeah, no, no, no, no, no. It's like, arguably, it's a good thing. Guess who spearheaded the British criticism?

Oh, my God. Does this name begin with P? It does. It does. It's extraordinary. Extraordinary. It's a British, like, it's in our best interest to have arguably the best American gym that's pulled out the competition. But no, no, we don't care about any that, any, we don't care about that.

We just hate to see women making their own decisions and prioritising their own mental well-being. It is a deeply upsetting thing. It's disgusting. How dare she. So Piers Morgan tweeted, are air quotes, mental health issues? Now the go-to excuse for any poor performance in elite sport. What a joke. Just admit you did badly, made mistakes, and we'll strive to do better next time.

Kids need strong role models, not this nonsense. So much to unpick there. So much to unpick there. But I love that he's putting that on her. Like, you have to be a role model. You're not being a role model. But also, did he not leave an environment not two months earlier that didn't suit him? Because he was losing an argument.

Yes. Just admit that you're losing. Just grow up. Just admit that you're losing. it's so annoying so annoying so annoying it was i thought personally an incredibly cool thing to do to prioritize your mental health to do something that you don't want to do basically what he's saying is like he's sort of reverting back to that old like just slap slap a smile on and just get on with it but it's lie back and think of england right so she doesn't like it but

she's going to have to do it anyway incredibly damaging when it comes to mental health and that's the reason that male mental health, particularly, is so bad because, you know, they are encouraged to tough, you know, toughen up. And that's what he's saying, toughen up. And then he's, and then he's talking about role models. And actually, I think the best thing that she did and could have done is say, I'm not participating, I'm pulling out because of my mental health, I'm prioritising her mental health and it just goes to, that's, you know, what a great role model.

Yeah. I loved it. So there you go. But then again, I mean, it's literally same shit, different day. Like, extraordinary. I know. These women, I just wish they'd stop making up their own minds. It's so exhausting.

Do you not think we're tired from all this backlash? We have so much to do the Great British Public. We have so much to moan about. If these women could just be quiet, we could all just live a much happier life. Oh, hang on. Can I just talk about them personal? Two things. It was my birthday in July.

That should have been number one. Nice. Okay. Yeah, that was fun. And we had our first hag event in July, which is the hags are my Havagos. And we ran a 10K. A bunch of us went to London,

we ran a 10K. Was that in July? It was July, yeah. That's crazy. A bunch of us, mine is Alex, ran a 10K. But she watched the 10K. But, yeah, it was really, you wore the T-shirt.

It was a great day. July, woohoo! Yeah. This actually has gone on for far longer than we anticipated. Should have scripted it. approximately two hours longer than we anticipated. We have been asked to leave the room. We're only halfway through the year

and we're already being told that it's far too long for a podcast. So we're going to make this into a two-parter. Sorry. You're welcome. Sorry. Yeah, yeah, you're so welcome. Please come back. Yeah, I bet you can't wait to hear what happened in the second half of 2021

as if you didn't just live it. We're back after a slight hiatus. A lunch. Yeah, a lunch. Anabolic. We were told off for rambling. Apparently we've made this really long. We're on to August.

So the National Inquirer, a newspaper from the US, published a feature called 50 best and worst beach bodies, in which they had two pages dedicated to celebrities that looked toned and banging and flaunting their gorgeous figures. and then two pages dedicated to celebs who were rolling in the deep. No. Yeah. They said wail, having a wail of the time. Is it 2004? And they got someone, they got a doctor to estimate test holidays, wait.

Why? Because, well, they printed medical. Like, there's a pandemic on and that's what they're using the doctors for. I know. Super useful. Yeah, there was a picture test holiday and they had someone that had a doctor estimate her weight. I don't know what they said. but ridiculous um so there was outrage about that obviously and everyone was like whoa i thought we'd

left this behind in like 2000 but we haven't but we have been it's still going on um god that's that's infuriating it was infuriating and i um yeah i did a big post about that anything personal happened for you in august yeah oh yeah it was my birthday in august sorry i totally wasn't listening to you there um it was my birthday in august um i do you know what i went back through my Insta stories to like see what I'd happen in each month and like not that much in August. But I in August I took the Myers-Brigg

personality test five times and I got different answers every time which I feel like sums me up perfectly literally you need to be Alex's friend to like fully grasp it it's a lot I have a lot. You know what I did in August I took off all my clothes got painted and walked down a mirrored catwalk

for Sophie Tee Yes, that was cool. That was so cool. What did that feel like? Was there any trepidation or like hesitation at all? Was it just brilliant? It was a lot because it's like, and I tell you what it was. It wasn't the being naked particularly and it certainly wasn't my body.

Like once you, it's the weirdest thing. But when you're painted, you just become art. And it's like, I love Sophie so much and I love her art and I love her as a friend, but I adore her as an artist. Like I just think she's, and I've loved her art for so long. said it before the show and I mean it with my whole soul afterwards like if I could have seen the female form only through her gaze I'd have loved myself forever because I think she makes women so beautiful with her art like all women all shapes all bodies and that that's what

the being in the show felt like because like I was just surrounded by all of these women that were just like unreal like and we were art you know what I mean we weren't women we weren't bodies we would are and it was like so I didn't feel any like embarrassment or it wasn't any like oh just my tummy or my boobs or it wasn't any like worry about that there's just something um incredibly vulnerable about standing on a mirrored catwalk without any clothes on so it was just when we turned the corner to go down it was like and then like I'm so awkward just as an individual so I don't like I'm not like sexy you know so I was like what's happening and then you stop like you know all the like the models stop

and then I was like what do I do and then I started dancing and I was like why have I started dancing because my boobs were just like dog dog because I didn't have a bra on so I was like this is awful I was with Georgie Swallow which is great but then I was like what's she doing so it was a lot so I didn't get the like euphoric moment of like this is me it was more just like what the fuck Boob, boob, help. Ow, ow, and then there's a fucking flight of stairs at the end. And as I was going down, I was like, dog, dog, dog, dog. I was like, oh, no, that's a lot.

So, yeah, it was a lot. It was a lot. And then you had to go back through the crowds. And I literally had back past, like, my sister and Alex. Not you. This is so confusing. I'm going to have to rename my fiancé. Yeah, went past Alex again and cat.

And it was like, ooh, like they're at boob height. Do you know what I mean? Awkward. Yeah, awkward. So, you're art, and it's unreal. Yeah. But we also did it three times. Okay.

Because you did it for the dress rehearsal, then you did it for the day show, and you did it for the night show. Right. So, yeah, I mean, from a body standpoint, I felt like a fucking goddess. But as a human, I still felt incredibly awkward. So, never-life balance there.

Yeah, I don't know if I could do it, you know. You could. I don't know if I could. So, that was August. And then on to September, and as we mentioned earlier, there was just another horrifying news story, Sabina Nessa, who was a teacher walking through a park on a Friday night, was killed. And it was just the most horrifying thing to come six months after what had happened to Sarah Everard. And like we said before, you know, there was such an outcry of a need for change. and after what happened to Sarah

and with what happened to Sabino it just showed that the problems within this society and how far we still have to go and something that was really hard to read was that between their two murders

80 women had been killed and again it just highlights this extraordinary injustice and danger facing women in the UK I think we would also be remiss to mention the differing news coverage between Sarah and Sabina. And of course there were many reasons for that,

namely Sarah was killed by a police officer and that was in itself a horrific and notable story. But the silence that surrounds so many murders, particularly when they're not of white women, is something to notice. I've got a statistic here. that's quite stark and that there was twice as many posts on Facebook about Sarah ever than there was about Sabina Nessa and 50% more interactions with these posts.

There is a disparity between the coverage of the two cases and again that's not to take away. This is not comparing what happened to these women because it's horrific. It's horrific. It's horrifying. but just to see after we begged so loudly for there to be changed and there was such an incredible public conversation following what happened to Sarah to just see it happened again I don't know about you but I just felt incredibly hopeless at that time and that's been a big thing this year that that's been a big thing

I think like women's safety yeah and a look at the media and how we talk about it because why didn't we know the name for those 80 women between the two girls either and that says a lot it's mad isn't it it's like it's just just so accepted just happens yeah that was that was hard a completely unrelated note personal though i think september was the year the month that you got bronchitis i did and i went away oh we took the black we took the hags to do blending triathlon yeah so i yeah that was a really big moment for me me doing Blenheim Chai, or taking the Hags to do Blenheim Triathlon, taking Havago's to do that,

because that was where the Havagos was born. Like I had the idea to create a community like the Hags at Blenheim Triathlon the year before, having done the event with my sister and realised how uninclusive, particularly triathlon, can be. So, yeah, it was a real full circle moment for me taking my incredible community to, to their birthplace.

I did not birth them. I actually really like that because it's like you saw a problem there at Blenham. There was a lack of inclusivity and you were able to go back there and do something about it. That's really cool. That was legitimately, of all the things I've done, it's one of the proudest I've ever been because I did Blenheim Triathlon and I've done it before and then I did it with Katia and my sister. and I did realize how what a disparity there is and how difficult it is for beginners

to get into sporting events really and particularly a triathlon. People that are so up their asses. Not all triathletes, my mum's one, Alex's one, I'm one. But, you know, there's a type, right? And that type do not tend to like beginners or people in their way or whatever it is, you know? And I just absolutely raged

because my sister got overtaken by a, by a guy and he said something unkind as he went by and I absolutely lost my shit I was like she's got just as much right to be here as you do we're all covering the same distance blah blah blah blah blah and it turns out we unlocked something in me about about the way that actually just I don't know it's the gym bros right

like the people that think they're so much better than everyone else I'm like make we all start somewhere you know what I mean exactly anyway the shout out to limelight because they handled it so well I emailed the organisers and I said, look, this is, that wasn't great. There's some rooms for improvement. I have some suggestions. Anyway, and they replied going, okay, whatever you want, let's do it.

And from that day, they were like, bring your girls, and the hags wasn't even born, but they were like, whatever you do will support you. And then my mum came up with the name, the Havergo, and then I went back with Blenheim and I said, this is what we're going to do. And they said, yeah, cool, let's come. So to see that all come full circle and to do exactly what I dreamed of. That was really cool. And everyone, you should check out the Havagoes.

It is really cool. Thanks, mate. Yeah. Like, I was so emotional. And it seems like yet to do an event. I know. I'm so sorry. But when I watched the 10K, I was so emotional at the end.

Yeah, it was like, yeah, everyone was so like uplifted and it was so joyful. Well, we also did, in September, we did the Three Peaks, the Yorkshire Three Peaks for the Eve Appeal, which is a gyneological cancer charity that I am an ambassador for. And they smashed that. I also could not do that as well, you know, because of my chest. and so my mum and Alex had to do it for me. Frontitis. Yeah, a pretty good excuse.

I also, I actually think what I had was called burnout. Just buy another name. But yes, I spectated those two events. But I don't know why we're wasting all this time talking about my incredible community when you went viral for your own reasons in September. And yes, I did, I went viral and I have to say that it probably... I'm very famous.

It probably brought a lot more to people's lives and the hags ever will, I have to say. Yeah, my heatless curls journey kind of came to a head. Came to a head. Thank you. I thought of that one before. Yeah, I put these ridiculous, multicolored, like, I don't even what you call them. You're like one of the twits?

Yes. No, the tweenies. Yes. The tweenies. You look like one of the tweenies. Well, like a medusa, but like a multicolored medusa. Yeah, like a shit one. And a big, like, pink and blue and green snakes coming out of my.

out of my hair. Basically, Alex was trying to save her hair from heat damage and she lost her dignity to know heat damage. I've tried everything, but basically, as everyone tells me, every time I do, I try something else, people are like, it's your hair type, it's just too thin. I'm like, okay. Thanks everyone.

Let me live. I've got to try it. So yeah, I've got a shit hair. I thought I could stop it from... I've got thin hair. Thanks for everyone telling me. It's crap. I thought I could stop it for.

from being more crap if I didn't use heat, but that didn't work out, so there's that. I actually, like, I wanted to try the heatless curls, but I was like, I don't want to try because if it works. It will work for you. You'll be raging. Yeah, you've got a nice head of hair. I've got a lot of hair, but it is quite thin also.

So if it makes you feel better, I'll try it, and if it does work, I just won't tell you. Yeah, just don't. Okay. Yeah, or, like, hide me from your stories, if you put it on stories. Yeah, I've blocked you. You don't watch my stories anyway, to be fair, so. I do.

I do. I'm just busy recently. I'm just a really busy gal. It's so funny with everyone, like, I don't know, within this job, you can normally be like, oh yeah, did you catch it on my stories with Alex? She's like, oh, no, I've not. I'm like, just lie. Just say, yeah.

Just say, I have. I know. I'm getting back into it now, though. Into me. I just got, no, into stories, because I just got, I was just over Instagram. Like, I just couldn't go on it. It was like, it's too much. There's so much going on.

I just cannot face it. Well, I mean, there's so much going on. Like, look how much we've just gone through. Oh, my God. I know. I know this hasn't happened on Instagram, this has happened in the world, but like... And still have to go through. We're only in September.

Speaking of which, let's move on to October before we get another bollicking from our management. So, October, something that I just wrote about recently, actually, that I knew that you would have an opinion on and be interested in. M. Rata, Emily Rattajowski, if that's how you say it, she released a collection of essays called My Body. I don't know if you read... I'm actually more too, because I'm actually more too, because I'm... I read a bunch. And I didn't read it. And I don't know why I've not read it, but I did listen to her on a podcast episode.

Oh, yeah? Yeah, the call me daddy. Okay. And that was really good. Yeah. I've been very interested, I mean, I've been very interested, she said, having not read the book. But I have been, I've been aware, and I was following the discourse surrounding this book. Yeah.

Yeah. So basically, it was a collection of essays, basically, around. like what it means to be a woman and to be objectified for your body and it was it was shocking and also enlightening and it detailed some of her journey some of her the experiences she's had as a model and obviously like a person who is very typically beautiful and desired but there was a lot of well the discourse around it came about because it was positioned it was marketed as like a feminist a piece of feminism piece of feminist right writing and so there were a lot of critics a lot of think pieces that came out asking can you

can you really denounce a culture that you profit from that you benefit from i.e. Emily Ratajowski is Emerita is is denouncing this culture you know the male gaze the patriarchy however she is a cog in the patriarchal machine like does can those two things be reconciled. Oh my God. We're about to spend another three hours in this room. What is your opinion on that? My opinion. Okay, so I actually did do a lot of research on this. And I came to the conclusion that I don't think there's a right answer necessarily. So I have done no research on this and I agree. So I think the, I think it comes down to like choice. So this, and I feel like of an opinion actually. Do you? Yeah. Okay. But I feel like, let's go with yours first.

Okay. And I feel like this is similar to like sex workers and there's obviously like a lot of sex positive, um, like discourse nowadays, which is great. And I do think, I think it comes down to choice like what you, if you are choosing to be a sex worker, for example, and then that's your choice. But if, if you're, if you're doing it because you have to, like say because of poverty, you're being objectified. So basically I think that she, You know, there was a lot of talk about whether, and obviously, Piers Morgan weighed in as well, about whether she can be empowered by selling her body

or whether she's just objectified. And I think that's personal. I think that's down to the personal choice because I think people can't either be empowered or objectified, but it's depending on you. You see, I think that's an entirely unrealistic question in the broader sense. It's like, okay, I mean, can you?

probably can you denounce something entirely while still benefiting from it I mean it's never going to damn it it's in the grey area everything's in the grey area I think of course you can you have to be able to because her alternative

is what so this no this is confused I've confused myself because she says okay okay so to be a model is to be objectified right in its purest level because you are

being treated as an object so you will be viewed and judged accordingly right if we accept that's what modelling is but obviously what's happened to her

has been harassment and judgment and again I think to not give her the space to denounce

this is her experience and it's an extraordinary experience we can't I can't relate. I've never been that beautiful. She's. Thanks.

But, you know, she's in an extraordinary position, and I think it's very easy to say it down here and be like, oh, well, you can't do this and you can't do this. It's like, it's you fucking can. You're not necessarily right, but you can do what you want. And you might not be right to me, but you can do what you want. And this is her experience. And if it's been, and it doesn't matter how beautiful you are,

That doesn't make harassment, okay? And it doesn't matter what you do for a job. It doesn't make, harassment shouldn't be expected. And again, I'm saying all of this with absolutely no fucking authority because I didn't read the book. So I have no idea. Can you ask me a good in the new year? I'll read it over Christmas.

Okay, we'll come back to it. But let me know, like I'll just say where I landed on this because I feel like I feel like I've really thought about this and like I need you to know where I landed. She felt quite proud of where I landed. Okay. So. Please put your seat,

about the sun and prepare for me. Hang on. If you put the tray tables up and. I'm ready for a clap as well after this. Oh, cool. We're going to clap with the plane lands. Yeah, exactly. We're American.

Okay, I'm ready. So I think it's like there are separate issues at play. So like the first one that I talked about, like is it empowering or objectifying, like down to individual choice? And then there's another one and another issue that people really slated her for, which is, like I said before, she's a cog in the patriarchal machine, yet she is trying to, yeah, she's trying to, you know, denounce it.

And I think, this is where I came to, is that she, I don't think, no, I don't think she's making any great strides for women's rights or for feminism as a whole, but I don't think she owes that to us, which is, like, critically what struck me from all these think pieces, like they were all really criticizing her as if she owed us that, as if she owed us to be like the new face, not the new face of feminism, but to really fight for women's rights and actually she doesn't owe us that. She's allowed to talk about her own experience and she's allowed to position her experience as, as feminist, if she wants, without the, without the backlash of, you know, does that make sense? I'm actually going to give you a little, congratulations,

yeah. And I actually, to go back to that, well on that point, I think it's a very good point, because she also, and I don't know what month this was, we missed it, but when she had her baby, people had a lot of beef with her for how she looked after she had it. Because she looked too good, right? And I can get that that must be fucking annoying if you, you know, triggering. Yeah, I really, really can understand that. But also, she doesn't owe us shit. Right. If you want to look that good and in the process inadvertently or advertently put a whole load of mothers down okay she's existing in her body she's existing and if we allow people who don't look like that to also exist in their

postpartum bodies why can't she be allowed to exist in her postpartum body no matter what it looks like yeah and that because that that that's what it comes down to it's people put too much on her and and i think we put too much on a lot of people people put too much on everybody you know we as humans I think, put, our expectations of other people are too great. Nobody in this life, this has got deep, but I'm going to stick with it. Nobody in this life really owes us that, everything. Nobody owes us everything. Certain people do owe us certain things, perhaps.

But nobody owes us everything. And nobody can give us everything. To expect M. Rata, supermodel and 30-year-old 25, I don't know. I don't even know. This is it, right? We don't even know how to pronounce her surname. And here we are expecting the new wave of feminism and an entirely relatable body.

It's not really, we can't expect this. Because also my expectations of what she's going to do are going to be different to your expectations. And that fella down the corridor is going to... That fella down the corridor is going to want very different things from her than what you will. And she, like women all over the world, is being pulled in a million different directions

because everybody else is putting their expectations on her. And it's exhausting. Yeah. So, yeah. Complicated, right? Complicated. Potentially even a full episode by itself, if we can get a guest in.

If we can get M here. Can you DM her? You've got the same name? Yeah, exactly. See how that goes. I will read the book though. Yes. I feel like that might be a good starting point

for this conversation. Yeah. Okay. October, personally, I've got nothing. Ooh, October. Oh, I went back to, I tell you what I did do in October, which was dead nice.

Me and Alex went home to Ireland. That looked really nice. And something I never said on Instagram, but Alex proposed again. Oh. He got down on one knee where he was supposed to get down on one D before. Yeah, exactly, because obviously we had to get engaged in England because of, if you don't know Alex is Irish, actually, I should preface this point. I love that.

Like, I just assumed that everybody knows everything about me. Just like, just chatting away. Yeah, no, yeah, Alex proposed again. So I got engaged again in October. That was nice. Yeah, that was cool. Really nice. Yeah, I went back to Ireland.

Oh, I had my first. Oh, I tell you what I did do. I got my coil taken out. Oh, you did. Yeah, my Marina Coil taken out. I had a period. My first one in six years I had in October. I got mine taken out this week.

Last week. No, last week, sorry. Did you have a period yet? No, so I'm waiting. I'm waiting. I'm excited. I'm currently right this minute having my third. Are you?

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it's all right. I'm a little bit worried. It's not going to come. I just feel like it's been so long. I'm like, do I trust it to just come back? No, it comes out of nowhere.

I was standing, minding my own business. I was actually holding a baby toy in the shape. of two massive boobs which I thought was really weird and then I was just like oh my ovaries yeah literally just like invited something

I was like oh Christ yeah and then they just sort of went which was weird I've been wearing period pants again like obviously I've not needed them for ages and that's been really cool I've been wearing wookers

that's been nice that's been fun I've actually really enjoyed it it's been weird like I can't believe I'm enjoying something that I hated obviously but this is my first time

in like 12 13 years with no hormonal. Yeah, and that's quite nice that you're just connected to your body. Yeah, I'm all right. Like, I'm fine. I was a bit concerned that I would loathe myself

and I don't, so that's cool. Okay, that's good. Yeah, we're fine. Slightly worried about PMT, but we'll deal with that as it comes. Oh, I was absolutely awful on Friday. I was so rude. And I was like, what's happening?

And then on Saturday morning, I was like, ah. So, November, a bit of good news. We've got good news. news here. Oh my God, it's taken 11 months and how many hours. Good news. Yay. Brittany Spears conservatorship finally came to an end. That was good news. That was really good news. That was really good news. What a day. What a day. That's all I have to say about it. I mean, yeah, that was extraordinary. That was extraordinary. And I now listen to Britney's music that I, when I tell you I was the biggest Britney Spears fan.

Like I, it was my first cassette that I ever bought was the Britney, oh, baby a baby one more time. Yeah. And then I got up in year five and I performed Britney's rendition of I Love Rock and Roll. Oh my God. We need footage. I had a pink, oh my God, they better be footage. I had, I went to Dorothy Perkins and I bought a pink, I bought my mom bought a pink like pale pink skirt that was awful. And it went down to the ground on me because I was like year five, whatever that is, like 10. And they went down to the ground and they took it. My mom took it in at the way. so it fitted me on the waist and then I wore these like plastic pearls and I I still remember the dance so do you so yeah I love love love Brittany and I do I mean like like how horrified were we when it came out that this was what she was going through and then it's just it was like beggars belief and it's opened up actually a really interesting conversation around conservatorships and and and how and and and disability rights has been a huge

amazingly a huge conversation of the back of this because obviously for Brittany it's crazy and like unreal that it's even happened but it amazing that it was such a high profile case because it does now bring this conversation into the limelight and a lot of people

with disabilities have conservatorships put on them that they then can't end and so that's again an important conversation that's coming forward but yeah for her personally like what a treat she's free she's free I follow her on Instagram now.

I'm just like... You can go to the shop. Yeah, just drive your car on holiday. Have a good, yeah, just do what you want. Yeah, she's thriving, isn't she? So, personally, November, I got married. Oh my God, and my boob fell out of your wedding. Yes.

But back to you got married. You can have it. Thanks. And you didn't fall down the stairs. And I didn't fall down the stairs. And it was like, oh, the best day ever. Like, you're just, you're going to love yours. It's like, when people say, like, you do have the best day ever.

And I don't want to like put expectations of other people because I feel like people said that to me and I was like, just because I'm saying that, just because of that, I know I'm not going to have a good day now. But actually I had... You're so spiteful. Yeah, I'm so spiteful. Just because you said that, I'm going to have a shit wedding.

But actually... It's chuffing off your nose to spite your face. The time of my life, it was so much fun. It was, I mean, yeah, it was really fun. It wasn't my wedding. I just watched it, but it was cool. It was really good. You looked dead nice, didn't you?

Did I? Yeah, really good. miles away from how I looked now. No, I disagree. But the whole thing was absolutely stunned. You had so fun. And I got to eat three meals. You did.

Three courses. Unreal. That never happens to have gluten-free vegan at a wedding. I didn't be part in the ounce for. Yeah, that was a lot. I know. That was, it wasn't great. So I didn't have a lot of friends at Alex's wedding,

just because, I don't know. We just didn't know anyone. We kind of became friends and then there was a pandemic, so, you know, didn't meet your friends. And, yeah, her sister's a dead nice. And I was having a lovely tie. and I was just dancing and my Alex went to the bar so I was like I'll just hang out on the dance floor

I was just dancing I was just grieving I was just chilling with Alex's sisters and yeah it's having a hoot and then I walked into the bar which is very well lit by the way to go and look for Alex and I got through and I had a chat with Alex's dad Alex Light's dad Mr Light who had hosted a lovely day

and I said thank you so much thank you so much for having me this has been so great and he was like no worries and then I spoke to another girl who was so nice and had a really long chat with her and then I got to my Alex and I got to the bar and he just looked at me and I was like oh my god your boob her I was like oh my god there's mr light see my whole boob here and then I put on

alex's waistcoat my Alex see this is very confusing put on my Alex's waistcoat and I went back in and he was like no no no you look really cool and I was like okay thank god and then I got back to the dance floor and Dave this Alex is now husband just sit one look at me and he was like and you look really weird I was like, you know what, Dave? So do you, but I'm polite enough not to say anything. I just love that. It did look funny.

It was so good. Dracula. Yeah, so yeah, I did look like Dracula, to be fair. Yeah, so bad. That was really embarrassing. But I am in your wedding book. I'm really scared you're going to get your wedding photos back. And it's just going to be...

I can't wait. Spot the boom. Be like, like, wet, it's wally. So that was fun. Yeah, it was so nice. Are you enjoying being married now? Yeah. I mean, it's so different, I don't think.

It's quite nice being, like, my husband. Like, that's why I keep thinking. But then, like, I'm 33 and he's 36, so it feels like we should be husband and wife anyway. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. It doesn't feel like, it feels like we're grown up enough to be that anyway. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah, you definitely are grown up. Yeah. Well, that's fun. That was nice. We're going to the Maldives in January, which I'm so excited for. I was well, trail. It's literally all of our life savings. I've already asked to come in your suitcase.

yeah top and tail with us in the bed so intimate oh my god when you're in the Maldives I'm just going to be lying

at home looking like a bow-a-bon again please can I come please I won't even talk I won't be able to talk because my mouth will be stuck shut again

I'll be so in the corner I'll just be a bit swole in the corner just ruin your wedding again so we are at the end of the year well not really

We've not got through the December. Does anything, has anything happened? Yes. Oh, sorry, sorry. So we're obviously not that far through December as we're recording this. But I wanted to flag Dr. Alex George's campaign, post your pill. Yes, that's been stunning. Which I am so obsessed with.

I think it's so cool. Like, it's exactly what we all need to, like, further dismantle the stigma and the taboo around mental health. And having to take medication for your mental health. Like, it's still a really big deal for, a lot of people, and there's still a lot of shame around it. So I thought that was so cool. Like, honestly, I wanted to, like, give him a handshake. It would be weird, give him a hug.

Give him a hug. I don't know. The guy's done a great thing. Don't just shake his. Give him a hug. Shake his hand. Well, clap on the back. There you go.

That's what I'm going. Give him a clap on the back. Isn't it so cool. I feel like we have shout on social media from a great height this whole episode. But actually, what he's doing is just social media. it's like absolute best totally so many people have like well literally posted their pills yeah and explain the story behind them as well yeah which i think is you know obviously like did you watch this documentary no i haven't oh it's so you were getting married at the time it came out to be fair like

literally think i watched it okay um after you anything it's so good it's so good i did that forgetting the conversation of male mental health yeah it's so it makes me so frustrated because obviously I've never been a man and and it's really hard to speak on any authority with any helpfulness really about male mental health and it's just so great to see men standing up and like taking the stage and like and just and having this conversation because it's so powerful and that's really lovely super powerful and that just reminded me of from freddy flintosh's documentary did you see it about his ongoing battle with bulimia and it was so vulnerable and we're just not used to seeing that. And Brom and Kemp did an amazing one as well about

about male mental health and that was just like I was I mean that was unreal as well like I was in absolute bits watching that. It's that it that's been really cool this year actually as well just to see people to see men opening up and and again not that you know it's a big responsibility it's a really big responsibility to take on but it's incredibly powerful isn't it? So powerful. And lovely to see. And, well, I think our personal highlight for December has to be starting our podcast. Yeah, well, it could also be a catastrophic low light. Like, the reviews are going to come in, they'll be like, what the fuck was that?

It was like one big rant. Yeah. Couldn't distinguish between the two of them. Yeah, exactly. Random months. They both laugh like seals her. I'd like to clarify that the laugh is M's laugh. Not Alex's laugh, M's laugh.

It's a really bad laugh. I'm really aware of it. No, it's a nice laugh. I like it. Thanks. Well, I think that's the year wrapped up. Four hours later. The only thing left for us to do is sing you out of Virgin.

I don't want to. Alex actually claimed to sing like Beyonce earlier. No, no, I said I can hold a tune, but I'm no Beyonce. Okay? I can hold a tune. It's such a claim. I'm so excited. It doesn't mean you're getting one, but I can hold one.

can hold one. If you're here and you've made it to the end, thank you so much. And wow. Yeah, and we're so sorry. So grateful and also so sorry. And I guess, yeah, this is going out just after Christmas. I hope everyone's had a really lovely Christmas. And also, if you haven't had a really lovely Christmas, then just to say, that's okay. You'll have a lovely time again. And I know Christmas can be really shit for loads of people. A lot of people struggle with Christmas. Yeah. So actually, this is just a note to say if you've had a really bad Christmas, that's a really bad Christmas. That's cool no drama doesn't say doesn't say anything about you don't worry about it

lots of people do yeah loads people no one ever talks about that no one ever says that on social media oh it was awful like it was awful no one ever says like oh yeah my I don't know my granny said something offensive I was gonna say yeah it's normally like a family member says something that like triggers you not triggers you but like puts you in a stink yeah or I don't know cooks you meat I don't know oh cooks you meat yeah you're a vegan

yeah exactly Yeah, so if you have another great one, then that's fine. That's fine. This is, we're even ending this on a miserable note. Could we not have been positive at least for Christmas? We are going to be so positive. Like, just you wait, we've got so much positivity in store. Yeah, this podcast is absolutely nothing like what it's going to be next year.

We have a proper, I promise you, we have a proper format. This was, we've got a proper structure, like this was just to get everything off our chests and to ease us in you know we needed to be eased into this podcast world thanks for joining us well all the usual you know what do people do at the end of podcasts ask to like to subscribe and like and leave a five star review that would be nice you know what i just i don't even think you should leave a review because i just i think to leave five stars would be disingenuous i think anything else would be too hurtful and i'm you know if i haven't had a shit christmas that'll make me have one so yeah please don't

a bad review. Just don't worry about the reviews. If you just... Yeah. Well, a good one would be all right. I was going to say, if you like it, then please review it. And if you don't, please don't. Is that how it works?

I don't know. I hope so. I can't take criticism. Yeah. We're incredibly fragile. Before we get another bollicking and chucked out because we have been here, like we have well and truly overstayed our welcome. It's gone dark.

It was supposed to be 11 till 1 and it is now 4 o'clock. That's so bad, isn't it? It's so far. We are three hours behind. We need to go. I just say the word one more time. This is incredibly indicative of what we're going to be creating next year. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, quakey. So, buckle in. Yeah. Thank you so much for joining us and we will see you next time. See you next time. Thanks for being here. Happy Christmas.

Thank you.