Should I Delete That? - A big hug of an episode with Jules Von Hep

Episode Date: September 25, 2022

This week, the girls chat to co-founder of Isle of Paradise, podcaster and body confidence legend Jules Von Hep. Jules started out in fashion and fell into spray tanning, and while his relationship with his own body suffered, he was uplifting women day in and day out as they entered the booth for a bit of fun and a glimmer of hope. Jules shares his own body confidence journey, and how that was influenced by the thousands of women he spray tanned over the years. He certainly still has the ability to uplift and put one at ease, and we hope you feel that from this conversation.Follow Jules on Instagram @julesvonhepThis episode is sponsored by Butternut Box, visit www.butternutbox.com/alexandem for 50% off your first two boxesThanks to Waterloo Podcast ProjectFollow us on Instagram @shouldideletethatEmail us at [e-mail] & edited by Daisy GrantMusic by Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We are so happy and proud that this episode is sponsored by Butternut Box, a brand that we love for many reasons. As you'll probably already know, if you follow us both on Instagram, buttonut box is a fresh dog food delivery service that delivers straight to your door and takes into consideration all of your dog's dietary needs. The brand started with a rescue dog, which we obviously love, and Betty and Bua have absolutely thrived on it. Buttonut Box genuinely care about their dogs and their ethos is that good enough for the dog is not good enough. Dogs deserve better. The meals are comprised of quality meat, veg, lentils, vitamins and minerals and don't contain any grain, wheat, gluten, corn, soy or sugar,

all of which are known to cause intolerances in dogs. We haven't been asked to say this, but we wanted to highlight the huge amount of work the Butternut Box do with dog charities. They donate meals to dogs in shelters, and they even donate freezers so that the shelters can store the meals. If you would like to try Buttonut Box out for your dog, you can get 50% off your first two boxes with the following link. com forward slash alex and m oh my god why did i post that i don't know what to do should i delete that

yeah you should definitely delete that hello sorry i can't talk to you right now i'm actually influencing somebody just asked where my dress is from um that's my address i was like probably don't give it straight way um yes someone just asked me where my dresses i'm i've taken this so seriously the be cool thing and I've done it that's my good straight in look how cool I look today you look really cool today I know you've got a high pony platt well I was going to wash my hair this morning but I actually realized I left my shampoo and conditioner in the hotel that I stayed out on Saturday night so I couldn't wash my hair so that's what this is but that's like I digress I agree and I'm in a cos dress and I don't

know if you remember but when we interviewed Candie's Brathwaite she described herself as being a cos girl and since then I've had that dream echoed around my own mind thinking God I would love that for myself and now I'm here I'm wearing a cos dress and someone's asked where it's from and I was able to say

it's a cos dress yeah it's from cause it's so expensive but so worth it I've okay so I'm not very good at spending money on clothes particularly like well I'm not very good I'm not very comfortable spending money but with clothes I was just and with this

I remember telling you, it was like I had to resolve. I felt like, I felt like a sinning Catholic. I was like, I had to tell loads of people what I'd done. I had to be like, I've, um, I've bought some clothes, but lay me up. This is why I think they're going to last, like, season to season. And I really had to like rationalise it. And I told loads of people. That is good.

It's a jumper for context to everyone listening. It's a jumper. Yeah, short sleeves. A camel-colored jumper. I've never worn anything camel in my life. I love camel. I feel like I'm growing up. Yeah, it's, it's so chic.

So she. So she... Because I just think of the burberry trench. No, I didn't bring a jacket because it's quite hot. I think I might have made a tight... It's a wool blend, which might have been an error, given that it's... Yeah.

Hight hot. But that... With some... Over the knee... Sorry, with some knee-high boots. With the chunky boots. Chunky boots, yeah. Which is still wrecking my feet, but do I care?

No. Will I stop? No. Do you know what? I've got a pair from last year from... I think they were... I can't remember from... Maybe Zara.

But I can't wear them. They're killer. You know what, Alex. I've worked out and I've really sat with this. this over the last few weeks since we decided to be cool. If it was easy, everybody would do it. So I'm pushing through, the purse is very, my feet look very sad. They're just bleeding.

Like, everywhere. Don't even care. Hello. Very loudly into the microphone. I'm so sorry. It was my tea. I took a big slurp and I swallowed it very loudly, so I'm so sorry. There's another noise that we need to address.

My birth? No, well, yeah. Well, we're recording in a train station, so if you hear or not. like a train we are literally recording at the bottom of a train station it's very cool though it's the Waterloo

podcast project it's really cool yeah and we're in a nice little booth altogether yes which is why it's so fucking rank in this windowless booth with the door shot and at the beginning of the podcast

Alex had the biggest burp and then her fucking sister rather than reprimanding her in which she would have been right to do she's joined in thank you for transitioning me nicely to a DM that I wanted to read out because I feel vindicated okay

and I feel like I've got someone on my side, right? Hey, just sitting and eating grapes. And it made me think of yesterday's podcast. I just wanted to say, I hope you called them out for talking whilst eating, especially seeing if she calls you out on your burps, which I personally find much less offensive. I got so much shit for eating grapes.

Love you both, the podcast and everything you stand for, minus the gross habits. Fair enough. Fair enough. Like, I listened to a bit of that back because I got a lot of shit in my DM. Did you? You were fucking disgusting. And I was like, oh, God, what have I did?

I was so hungry. But I did eat a whole box of graves while we were recording. Okay. Yes, in my goods, just that's fashionable. That's it. I'm just, I'm fucking delighted with how this is gone. Yeah, I honestly, I just want everyone to know that I'm not playing it cool about how cool that I look. And you put up a reel today so everyone will be able to see.

How cool I am. Yeah. I know. On Monday. So the listening on Monday, if you go back to Thursday, you'll see Ends Real and that's what she's wearing. Yeah, and I'm cool. And that's it. Oh, cool. Thanks.

It's hard to sustain, though, because I've got today's outfit sorted, and then I'm like, fuck, what am I going to wear tomorrow? Yeah. I think some people love the creativity of that and, like, experimenting and putting things together, but I just don't leave enough time in the morning to enjoy that part of things. No, and I think, like, it's too, like, rooted in the memories of, like, changing room horrors gone by. Like, I don't find getting dressed. It's a bit triggering.

Fun. Yeah, I just find it, like, ugh. Because I have to say, Daisy, I'll producer, obviously, never wears the same outfit twice. I've literally never seen her in the same outfit. And it's always something different and very cool. And I feel like you are one of those people that enjoy experimenting and by putting different things together. And I see it. I see you.

I just want you to know. I concur. I wear the same thing over and over a fucking gun. They are cool, though, what you wear. It's just, but I like that you wear it over and over again. Yeah. It means to identify in a crowd. A variation of the same thing.

My sister showed up today to meet me. to come in in a denim shirt, a leopard print skirt, and converse. And I was like, Jen. This is the uniform? She said she asked. She's whispering. This is how I ended up with the faux par in its sue the other day. I know, because...

Because of the light lady uniform. Too many, anybody wearing a leopard print skirt and the amount of sisters you have, like the chances, probability suggests it's one of you guys. Okay, so you're good. is it you're cool? Yeah. My good is a bit of a cringy one, but I saw my book out in the wild in New York,

had a bit of a moment. It was really exciting. It was just like a... And do you know what? We really thought long and hard about going to New York. So yeah, it was difficult to justify and we spent a lot of time,

I spent a lot of time going back and forth on it, but I'm so happy that we did because I knew it was a once-in-a-lifetime thing. Like, that will never happen again. And Dave's like, oh, you never know. And I'm like, don't be daft. Like, that will never happen again. Like, something that I wrote will be sold, like, in the States.

So I'm glad we did it. It was, like, a very pinch-me moment. I obviously cried when I saw it. And yeah, that was up. Did you see anyone buy it? No. Oh, sorry. I was cheering you up for, like, an even better good.

No. They didn't seem to be that much interest surrounding it, but that's okay. It was a big store, and there were lots of books in there. Fuckers. Fuckers. They did ask me to sign it, though. I did sign some copies. That was great cool.

You will get a message soon, I'm sure, from somebody being like, Hi, this is a Christmas present. Who are you? Yeah, probably. Well, actually, the shop assistant was, she came over, it was really nice, she came over to me, and she was like, oh, my colleague told me you were here because we had a group of girls come in to buy this

because they couldn't, because they hadn't been able to get their hands on it yet, and it just come. And she was like, normally I don't read books in this area, but it kind of caught my eye and I love it. And I was like, oh, my God, I love you. That's so cool. And then she messaged me after. on DMs and like I've got a New York friend now so yeah you've got a friend to hang out when you go to you

I know probably never again uh so yeah that was cool that's so cool I'm really proud of you I think that's really exciting and also it's really hard to like it's to remember that like your work reaches other people or like I don't know because it's and I think as well because like we did so much of what we do during lockdown where there's like no human interaction beyond screen stuff it's really weird when you go out into the world and there's like real life people because it's so easy to think that either there's nobody actually there or like the numbers are quantifiable or that people actually all secretly hate you

like that's what I think just because you know gossip is so prevalent or whatever and there is that side of influencing that's just so shit so you always think oh god everybody hates me and then you just realize actually most people are really nice and normal and there are just some lovely souls out there and like how lucky are we so nice yeah it's so true that is so true I mean, that's the weird thing about social media, isn't it? It's just that it's so un... I don't know if the word is like unquantifiable, but like, un...

Can't have your head around it. You just can't wrap your head around it. And it doesn't, like, I can't translate online to real life. Like, I just can't find it really difficult. Which is why we're so sure when we do our live show that everyone's going to come. It's why whenever anyone, like, does come up to us or whatever, I'm like, oh my God, are you sure? Are you actually sure?

You're here for us. Someone asked us for a photo the other day and I was just like, what, me? And I was just, like, holding the camera out for ages and I was like, oh, me! I was like, oh my God. It just, yeah, it's just, it's weird. So, anyway.

I've got an update on my cool fashion. Go on. So it's a wool dress. And I put body oil on this morning and I think it's all gone like, sticky. Yeah. I feel like I'm going to look like a boy's belly button

after us, you know, we talked about like the belly button fluff that they accumulate. I think that might be happening all. over my body. I'm going to look like a goat. Literally off her. Just like a thin layer.

Hit me with your bad. Okay, so my bad is just for England, like for the UK. I've just, and this might be controversial. I think I might get as cancelled and I'm sorry for saying this. I'm just going to do it. I don't understand why everyone's so pissed off with Holly and Phil. I think it's fucking ridiculous that Holly is literally... Oh my God.

And she's being dragged worse than Phil. I was talking about the site last night. yeah okay but everything I just feel like everybody in the UK is so angry right now I feel like

the government's a fucking disaster but people are misplacing their rightful anger and fear you know we are being like threatened with like nuclear war we're being like forced into a period of mourning

that a lot of people didn't want to observe the energy bills are really really high like and getting high and it just feels like a terrifying time but instead of being angry at the government

which just feels so hopeless because what's the point of being angry at the same government we've had for 12 fucking years, like no one's doing anything or going anywhere. We can't be angry at them because it's just a sense of apathy that's just like, well, we'll be angry with you and you'll do fuck all about it. So I think everybody's just getting so angry with everybody else. And I get the people who are a little bit annoyed for me, I'm still like they were working. It's like they were working. So if you don't know, the queen lay in state, right? The queen died. Guys, if you don't know the queen died, it was huge.

Anyway, she died, and they put her coffin in Westminster, and you could go and visit. And people were queuing for fucking ages to visit her body lying in state, right? I think the queue at one point was like 13 hours long, and it went all the way about to, like, Southwark Park, and people were queuing through the night. One of the people that queued through the night was David Beckham. It was 13 hours, and he stood in the queue. And everyone is, oh, my God, props to Bex, props to Bex. My friend Rory is staying with us at the moment, and he pointed out last night, he was like,

If David Becker was a woman, it would have been, well, she must be having a book coming out to do, and we'll see what she was wearing. A bit fucking desperate to do something like that. Bit of a PR stuff. Well, she obviously wanted the PAPS to see her. How tragic. Like, she'd have been, they'd have found a bad thing.

But also, everyone is, like, suddenly glossing over the fact that he's taken 150 million pounds to be an ambassador for Qatar. Oh, I didn't even know that. Yeah, didn't even know that. He's just, like, he's now, like, promoting Qatar. Oh, fun. And yet we don't care about that. But it's like, he's done in the queue.

Great. Yeah, great. Like, you know, patriotic, British, like, he's a hero. Big deal. So there's a ton of other people. And they used it as a massive comparison to cats. And it is Holly predominantly. Honestly, like, I nearly DMs her last night.

She doesn't follow me. I nearly just DMs her, but like, stay strong, babe. I was so sorry for her. Because, so one clip, right, of her and, can I call him Phil? Yeah, I was like, is it Philip? I don't know. Phil to his mates. Holly and Phil walking in, right?

And the person videoing it, because they went viral on TikTok, the person videoing it isn't saying, look at those fucking cue jumpers, what bitch is. They're saying, oh, they must be off to go and do some interviews, which is 100% what they were doing. They weren't like, let's not do work today. Let's go jump the queue and visit the dead queen.

They will have been sent there by ITV to go and do their jobs, which is broadcasting from the biggest news. story in the UK ever. So I just, anyway, there's a petitioner. It's a 33,000 signatures as of now. No. To have them fired. No.

They've had to put out a statement. Bloody Eamon Holmes is also on ITV has gone for them. I mean, but they are being, like, a 33,000 people have signed that petition. 35,000. That is unbelievable to me. I just think it's a crazy misplaced anger. So misplaced. And talk about wasting our precious everything.

on something that really doesn't fucking matter. I actually, just before we got here this morning, I read an article about it that was so vile. It was by Dan Wutton, who was a journalist that I have very, very little respect for anyway. Dan Wutton, Phillips Schofield and Holly Willoughby have taken us for fools. Despite their protests, we know they jumped the great Elizabeth line,

and this PR car crash proves they really do think they're better than us. And the whole article is so rank, it's absolutely rank, and it's had 2.4,000. shares there's hundreds of comments this is i don't mean to be dramatic but this will this she's a mother this is enough to kill a person this witch hunt and i hate using that term that we do we get our claws into somebody and we will not fucking stop until they are in tatters right what did they do they were sent by ITV i am willing to bet every cool cos dress that i ever own for the rest of

forever and all the money that I earned to buy them with, they were sent to that cue by ITV to do their fucking jobs. Right, of course. It wasn't their idea. But also, this, this is like what Jamila talked about as well, how like we like to build women up and then the moment they, well, we perceived that they put a foot out of place there, they're a goner. Yeah. Like, she, this, this article as well is, is so disgusting. It's talking about how like, oh, she wore a mask, obviously to disguise herself. She's standing with Phillips Gofield. She's very clearly Holly Willoughby. She got bright blonde hair. I don't think she was thinking the mask was going to be this like Harry Potter invisible clothes. Yeah. No one's ever going to see her. It's just

disgusting. If she wasn't wearing a mask though, she'd be done for not caring about the welfare of the people that surround her during what is still a global pandemic. But don't you think this is, this is like what Jimmy had talked about? Like she's the nation's sweetheart. Everyone's obsessed with her. Like she's, she's, she makes us laugh every morning. She's this like. And there's been so many examples of this happening this week, which is why I'm just so ashamed to be British, which is not an uncommon feeling. Unfortunately, it's getting more and more common with every fucking day that passes. How people have been about Meghan Markle makes me genuinely, genuinely wants to scream because I will say it until I am blue in the face. I don't care what you

think of her as a person. If you are so lacking in empathy and humanity that you think what's happening to her is okay, then there's something fucking wrong with you. Like, I can't, I can't understand that there's anybody justifying the way that we speak about her. And then we've also had Camilla and Diana being picked against each other. Like being, so I've got twitch in my eye. I think it's the stress of being British at this time. But I've just been on bloody TikTok and it's just been like photos of Camilla, Parker Bowles, Queen Consort now, versus Diana.

Now, I'm not being funny, but Diana died 30 years ago. obviously Diana looks fitter than Camilla because she died when she was 30 and Camilla's in her 60s. So it's like they're putting this photo and the woman he left her for the woman that he, and then the woman that he left and it's like this is bonkers

and they've done it with Kate Middleton and Megamarkle, what they were wearing who grieved better, who behaved better, they've got this, everybody's making this massive beef that they've got and the death stairs and reading into the body language which I just don't actually think is happening and then putting Camilla against somebody who died 30 years ago,

which is in and of itself obscene. And then this happening to Holly Willoughby, and I'm just like, why do we hate women? I saw an article as well, the best and worst outfits at the Queen's funeral, again, centred around the princess's, Eugenie and Beatrice. Yeah, all women. It wouldn't have been like what Prince Harry

not being allowed to wear his military uniform despite serving a vital role in Afghanistan on numerous tours. That piss me up. Can you tell I've got a real bug up my answer? Honestly, I feel like since the Queen has died, social media has been really, really horrible, like a really horrible place to be. So I was actually, I wasn't in the UK when, during the funeral. I have to say that it was really nice to not have, not see the media and social media less

because it was just brutal. The whole thing felt brutal. I said before, we've got a lot of reasons to be angry in the UK at the moment. And it does feel like me and Alex, boy Alex, watch. the news asked light and it's bloody Putin, like, genuinely threatening nuclear stuff. And he said I'm not bluffing. And then you've got all these people saying, well, hopefully the fact that he said he's not, he is bluffing, probably means that he is bluffing. And I'm like, this is a terrifying strategy, but okay, like, I do get that we have very real fears and concerns and anger. And

like, I have been listening to the news every morning, Therese Coffey, who is a new health secretary and, um, and deputy prime minister has, is, is, saying some shit. I'm so disappointed. The online harms bill was getting so close to being crossed and now she's blocking certain bits of it and it's just like it's so frustrating

there are so many things that we do need to be angry about this like trickle down economic policy which just sounds like an absolute joke. I don't know, but I completely get that we don't have a good outlet with the government because we can't say you have to go because we've been saying that for 12 years and nothing is changing and we don't have a

like, where's Kirstar? Where's Keir's Starmer? All the time. I'm just like, Keir, come on, say something, buddy. I don't know. So I do get why everybody's angry, but I just feel like women in the public eye

bear the brunt of the nation's anger every time. And it's actually obscene. Like, I just, I don't think they're going to stop until, I mean, what do they want from Holly Williams? What do they want? Do they want to fire, never work again? They want to fall into a depression? Do they want it to kill herself?

Yeah. When will they be satisfied? Because we have not fucking learned from what happens to Caroline Flack. And we won't learn. We're not like, this is, and watching it with that perspective is like, you're going to kill someone. And people just can't stop.

And I find it so distressing. Yeah. It's so bad. It has been really horrible. Like, I am not enjoying the news right now. No. I mean, like, we never enjoy the news, I guess, but it just feels. Because even if you don't like the monarchy,

or you don't like Holly and Phil, or you don't like Megamarkle, I'd suggest that you don't like Mega Markle, because you've been conditioned not to like Mega Markle, but that's something for another day. But like all these things that we don't like, it's just like, okay, so we don't like them. Do we want them dead? Do we want them in pain?

Right. Do we want them burning? Or can we just not like that? I don't know. I mean, I know the monarchy is a bit different, but like these individual people that we don't like, it's like, it's the end goal. It's okay to not like people and not externalize,

like not vocalize that, you know? We can just think, oh, I don't like that person. But you don't need to put it on social media, start a group or out about it. Exactly. Point out everything that they have done and do continue to do wrong. It's like, why? It's just a massive

misdirection of energy and like you said, anger. So yeah, actually that's my bad as well. Yeah. It's just super bad. I don't know. Super bad. That's a great song by Nicky Minardt. I was going to say, that sounds familiar. To get into it. What? Super bass. Fuck.

Never mind. Not cool. Not cool. cool. I've lost it. Damn it. Cool point's gone. You've lost it. You've caught for like 10 minutes. I'm so, that's me to a tea cool until she opens her mouth. And snorts. Okay, yeah. So, I mean, I've probably just got us both cancelled for that rant. So, sorry. It's been good while it lasted. Thanks for that, bro. Awkward. Should we bring ourselves back up? Yeah.

My awkward should have come straight after my good to immediately humble myself because I felt like I really put myself up there on a little pedestal. totally yeah you flew I said pedestal and actually that's quite cute it's better than pedestal isn't it a pedestal isn't it a pedestal it's a pedestal what it should be a pedestal did you think it was a pedestal I thought it's a pedestal like you're on a stool like you're on a stool like you're elevated about everybody else because you're on a stool pedestal pedestal it's a pedestal what the fuck's a pedestal I don't know but actually that it definitely does make more sense of course it makes more sense why it's my whole why for life Also, when you go into the nail shop, you can sit on a peddy stall. Yeah. You were really happy with that. But again.

I feel like I had a silent laugh. There is a button over there, I think, for laughter. Oh, my God, there is. Do you want to press that? Okay, say it again when you go into the nail bar. Okay. So when you go into the nail bar and you want to get your, feet done, you can sit on a pedestal.

Oh, it's this. Sorry again. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So when you go into a nail bar and you want to get your feet done, you can go and sit on a pedistool.

God, this is going to be all day, isn't it? Thanks, everyone. Yeah. Well, that's really throwing me for six. I really thought it was a pedestal. There you go. It is not. I think I spell it pedistool.

I think I've been writing P-E-D-I-S-T-O-O-L. So I put myself on a ped-stall. and now I'm just going to take myself straight back down. I'm going to give myself a hand off. Actually, I could give myself a shove off, right? So I was in Covent Garden. I was walking through Covent Garden. And I was on the pavement, and then on the other pavement

was like a group of like four girls, right? And I'm not good at judging distances at all, so I have no idea, but I want to say 10 metres. Okay. Whatever that means, think, away from them. And they were waving at me. right yeah so I was like oh my oh my god they're waving at me and I was like I'm gonna give it a second

I'm just gonna get a bit closer because like they might not be waving at me so I got a bit closer and I was like they really are waving at me and kind of like pointing as well so I took my sunglasses off so I was like I'll take my sunglasses off and like engage with my fans and be like yeah it is me guys so my sunglasses off and they were still and I kind of did a little like turn around is everyone behind Swish, has swish, half, swish, there's no one behind me.

So I was like, oh, my God. Like, this must be people who recognize me of Instagram. So I was like, I know. So I was like, oh my God. So as I got closer, I was like, oh, hi. And predictably, as predictably as ever, this man just walked out from behind me and walked up to these girls, this boy. And I was like, fuck me, humbled, literally humbled in a second.

You said hi. I said hi. Did they say hi back? I don't know, because the world went. blank like it just became an absolute blur like i could see stars i just ran in the opposite direction oh no but i really humbled absolutely humbled i just thought like there is no other explanation for this they was me there's no one behind me you must have been in my blind spot there's no one behind me i really feel like the blind spot is a cruel cruel trick by nature

like i think it gets a lot of people into a lot of trouble and motorcyclists predominantly yes okay so my awkward i'm actually going to take us back to the royal family and the death of the queen again um so one of my best friends got married at the weekend lucky got married finally which was stunning gorgeous she did it was like the most perfect day so nice seeing your friends like just so fucking happy i was i was honestly a mess like she i just me and luck have been through so much together and like she doesn't listen to the pocket so i could actually just talk absolutely trash, but I hope I wanted. She tells me every time I see her that she doesn't listen to.

I'm like, you don't need to keep saying. Fine. It hurts. I get it. She said it was too weird. She said she kept talking back to us because she kept thinking she was a good of us. Anyway, I digress. She got married.

It was absolutely just the most beautiful wedding just for how happy she was and she got married at home. And it was a real, like, team effort from, like, her family and neighbours. And, like, they'd all done, like, bunting and put fairy lights around their trees. and like the neighbours were all letting people park in their garden in their gardens and it was just like a really like you know it just felt gorgeous like lovely lovely family situation and her mum is just the nicest most like like lovely woman ever and they're they're Catholic and they're just very like church going lovely human beings and the night before her eldest daughter's wedding first wedding in the family everyone's exciting I was talking to like his mom

and we talked about the Royal Family because obviously we were worried that the funeral was going to be on the Saturday and the wedding would be affected and she said no, nothing like that but you can't ring the bells during the time of the time of the national morning so you have to have silent bells

muffled bells which is another word for silent bells stupid bells in my opinion is don't understand but anyway no bells and that was fine but then we were talking about the royal family and then she's like oh well what do you think about you know what do you think like the nation's feeling is for the monarchy and I was like, well, I don't know, like, you know, a lot of people who remember the Diana, you know, they don't want, they don't like Charles or whatever. And then she was like, well, what about William?

And I was like, well, I don't know. I was like, I like him. But, you know, all those rumours. And then she was like, what rumours? And I was like, why am I doing this? It's like, why have I brought us here? Because then I remember who I was talking to. And she was like, what rumours?

And I was like, you know, the pegging ones. And she was like, oh, wait. What? Why am I getting ghost silence from everyone? Pegging rumours. Great, now I'm spreading rumours more. Peggings. Peggings when a woman puts a strap on on and does the dude up the bum.

Prince William has been pegged. Oh God, I can't say this now. Dave's like, yeah, you can't. You have to. I don't know. They're just rumours. It was huge on TikTok a couple of months back. Everybody knows about wills and the peggings.

Not what I was expecting. No. And I don't think it was what Lucky's one was expecting either. You should have just made something up. I know. Yeah, I was not thinking on my feet because she was like, what rumours? And I was like, I could have said fucking anything.

Oh, you know, he's really into like wrap or like, or, um, crochet or like, no, Catholic lungs would like that. He doesn't like sleep in bed. You like sleep on the floor? Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. He doesn't wear pants. Like, I don't know.

Yeah, just like something a little bit sinister. Yeah, he goes to come under. No, I didn't. I just, oh, I went, yeah, I'm, yeah, I went, yeah, I'm, like, did you tell her? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But she didn't ask what Peggy was, which was even weirder. No, well, she just went, she was like, I was like, you know, the pegging stuff.

And then she was like, oh, anyway, we're going to get, she just left. And I was like, right, well, that's fair enough. Fair enough, yeah. Absolutely fair enough. Sorry, yeah. I think they're quite like, yeah, yeah, it was the whole thing. It was the whole thing. So, I think I probably were in.

Yeah, yeah, no, you're bad. Like, I, I've got one mode. You know, some people have parent modes. Yeah. I don't have it. Like this, I'm, I'm, this is. me whoever I'm talking to. Yeah.

Which is kind of good and kind of bad. Because my mum... I feel away for that rumour. She's a Gemini. I should be telling everyone. Have you heard? Yeah. Not everyone's mum's know about Prince William and the pegging.

Clearly. I bet my mum does not know about Prince William and the pegging. And I hope it stays that way. Can I just say along this line, one of my Alex's awkward this morning well not really awkward I just think it's kind of fun

I just think it's fun that we've confused a Welsh man called Lawrence but I mentioned earlier that my friend Rory is staying for a bit at the moment and this morning

Rory was leaving for work at like 7am so he was in the kitchen making a cup of coffee and Alex was downstairs also making a couple they were just you know

they were cracking on with their days this morning and I was not because it's 7am so I was upstairs and then Lawrence the guy came to fix the washing machine

because Mercury is in retrograde so everything's fucked and the washing machine was broken and Laura just came in and then Rory was flying back to Ireland tonight so when he didn't say that as he left he just went Rory said to Alex

bye darling and they had a nice little hug in the kitchen and Alex was like see you next week and then he was like okay love you bye and then he left and then as he left he was like oh well that looks like we're a couple and then he said to Lauren so he was like it's my wife's upstairs and the most of the seat guys going to have been like

what the fuck is happening here This is a, what do you call it? A polyamorous situation. A menageretre. There's a word, isn't there, for a three-person relationship? I can't remember what it is. I try something. It sounds like a lot of admin to me.

Anyway, Roy is to send me a text about it. A thruple? Yeah. Well, I'm in a thruple now, according to Lawrence. If you hear rumors among the Prince William Pegging variety that I am in a thruple with two Irish men, then that's what's going on there. I did expect, he might have thought.

thought they were brothers, but I think by darling might have thrown them off a little bit. See you next week, love you. Adorable. Yeah, very cute. No, it's really nice. It's nice of your flatmate again. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know how long it's going to last, but we're just

fine. I'm in a thrott. I'm in a throuple now. I tell you, someone at my wedding who I didn't know, and that's something for another day, came up to me and said congratulations, and then Rory next to me and said congratulations to him too. and I was like, this is not the groom. But maybe that person was onto something

and that was my other groom. And I just didn't know it yet. M's in athrop all passing on. So, our guest today, the very gorgeous Jules von Hep, wasn't this, this was such a joyful episode. Which I knew it would be because he is just, he's just joy.

He's joy. And he also inspired me to tan my face. Thanks everyone for noticing. You do look very tanned on the face. Very good. Well done. It's too late. It's too late or way too fucking late.

So just take your empty words and fuck off. But I love Jules. I love him so much. And this whole episode, when we were talking about like getting a sound bite for it, it's just like you can't pick one. I know. Everything he says,

it's like, I want to say like a micro, but it's not just like a click and a twirl. Yeah. Every time he finished saying anything, and that's not like stereotyping. That's just genuinely the energy that he emits. Totally.

Literally, I want to absorb like everything he said. And I just felt so good about myself afterwards. Yeah, he just, and every time I, every time I see Jules, even on Instagram, I always just think, he's fucking thriving, living his best life.

I really imagine, like, little stuff doesn't get him down, like he just grabs life and just, like, drinks red wine and loves his husband and just loves his job and loves his friends and loves his life and his house. And he's very good about his, like, online life being very separate from his real life. And he's just so, like, handsome and, like, put together all the time, like, dress as well. I just think, good for you.

Yeah. Can't relate, but good for you. I know. I felt so good about myself afterwards, and then it kind of dissipated. It dissipated a bit, so I'm just going to keep this, keep listening to this episode. Because he actually,

not just about body stuff as well, but just gave some really great advice on confidence in general and things like imposter syndrome. It was really cool. I loved him, and I'm excited for everyone to listen. Should we let them listen? Yes. Thanks for that.

I'm not by showing I'm going to go anyway enjoy Joel I'm embarrassed that you're here today because I noticed when we sat down

I was like look at my pale hairy little legs and then Al tried to say that she liked them which was weird and now you're here and I'm like why didn't I fake

I thought about it last night I was like I should fake tan and I didn't really think about it and then I was like for fuck sake apply a bit of Alice Water last night I didn't and I should have done but not enough

And can I just say, Alex, that this is the best I've ever seen your hands. Like, we have made so much progress over the years, haven't we? We have, haven't we? The game changer for my hands, absolute game changer, the brush, the Al Paradise, little brush. What's it called? Shape and glow. Shape and glow.

Shape and glow buff brush. Absolute game changer. I enjoy saying buff brush. And barrier cream, which you have taught me as well. Yes. That's important. But this is huge progress. Isn't it?

Isn't it? This would have tan in between fingers all over the knuckles, like the whole kit and caboodle. And look, here we are, shame free. Thriving. Yeah. You do look well. Thanks. Nice hands.

Thank you. Oh, the paradise baby. I don't have any fake town and I'm really self-conscious about it all of a sudden. I feel like an idiot. Don't be. I'm good to go home. I'm going to fix it, I promise. Don't be.

All is good. The real globe comes from within anyway. That's not very good for your marketing. I love that. for your like no we always say buy the tan don't buy the tan do whatever you need to do to feel more confident that is so you as well that is so you and everything that you like put out on social media i feel like it's always so positive but wait hang on right okay i said before we started recording that i've got so much to say and ask i can't really formulate it um which would have it probably would have been

good to like write it all down probably beforehand but let's take a deep breath think of your inner chakras Hang on, let me just ground myself. She's really going through some stuff today. Jules, hi. Greetings. Thank you so much for coming on. Fuck, I'm excited. You, okay, so I have been in the beauty industry,

which sounds so wanky now that I've just said that. It sounds so wanky, but I don't know how else to say it. I've been in beauty, I've been around beauty. I don't know. I've been beautiful. I have been beautiful a really long time. No, I've been in beauty for a long time, and you have always been one of my favorite, favorite, favorite,

people also in beauty because you're just a ray of sunshine but i want to go back to the moment that we met i don't know if you remember you probably won't i think i do remember it was when i was doing like full-time spray tanning yes and you were at hello i was at hello and it was my first ever spray tan and i was which for a scouse girl is quite a big deal yeah right and we bonded over that as well over being northern. But I was so scared. And I think part of the reason that I'd never got a spray tan before was I was like just terrified of anyone seeing my body. Like I just thought, I can't, I just can't do that. I'm uncomfortable. So I just end up with shitty hands. So I remember being so, so, so scared. And like the first thing I said to you was like, sorry. I was taking

my clothes off. And I was like, sorry. Like I'm on a diet at the moment. And like, I'm just really sorry. and you was just like, shut up, like, whatever, don't be ridiculous. And you immediately put me at ease. But I remember it so, so, so clearly, just being, like, so scared to, like, show you my body. That was my, that was my every day. It was your every day. Doing 15 times a day, every appointment was somebody apologising to me about their body. And when you're doing that day in, day out, I mean, you can be the best spray tanner in the world.

but if you don't have the chat and you don't have the ability to make somebody feel at ease, naked, then you're only going to go so far because I think there's this whole cathartic process and also confidence-driven process that is a very gentle element of spray tanning because ultimately most people only get naked during a sexual encounter or at the beach when your parts are covered up. They are the two main things or maybe in front of a doctor. So to go for an appointment where someone's, you're getting naked in front of someone.

You've never met them before. You've got like 20 minutes. It's quite full on. And I think I have a high level of empathy. And also I know what it feels like to not feel body confident. And in that time, I really put my empathy in that emotion of lack of body confidence together to make people feel more at ease in their own skin.

And I think there's something really liberating. about having a spray tan. You're literally naked with someone you've never met. Everything comes off. Like, jewelry comes off, deodorant comes off, makeup comes off. You are bollock bear. Hairnet on. Yeah.

And so that process is really, I think it's very liberating. And I think it's a really secretive, magical part of the beauty industry. Totally. You're right, actually, because I've always thought of it as quite undignifying. But on the other side, it is actually quite liberating. But I want to know how, I mean, so you, I mean, how many, like, naked bodies do you think you see through spray tanning must be like, like, so, so many? I want to know how that's informed your body image. And I think, actually, before we get on to that, if you could just explain, because you've had struggles with your body image starting from a really young age, and I wondered if you could just, like, explain your journey with that to anyone listening who doesn't know.

So I probably hated my body for about 25 years. I'm 36 now. I never wanted a job in the beauty industry. I trained in fashion. I did fashion at uni. But through school, I was bullied a lot. I was overweight. I didn't like sport.

I went to a very competitive boy school. I just placed my whole worth on appearance. I then studied fashion at uni, which obviously is a very aesthetically driven degree. And then fell into the beauty industry. And actually when I started in the industry, I just hated how I looked. I absolutely hated it.

I was struggling with an eating disorder. I definitely was partying too hard. I think my mental health was the lowest of priority within the whole run of the spectrum of what came first. And for me, being thin was the absolute focus. So then, yeah, when I started in the industry, I fell into spray tanning. Somebody said, I think you'd be really good at spray tanning. And I was like, oh, God, I don't know.

And then I actually fell in love with it because every day somebody was getting naked in front of me. But at the time, I just was literally self-deprecating at home, like really hating every single inch of my body, measuring my jeans, constantly weighing myself like twice a day just to make sure the number on the scales were going down. and it was a numbers game. And then being exposed to all the nudity, whether it was Victoria's Secret models, runway models, celebrities,

or people who weren't in the public eye, the same thing came across, I'm sorry for, insert body part. And it slowly dawned on me that actually it's not me that's the problem. There's a national epidemic of people hating their bodies. And that's not, that at the time was not talked about. And actually, I really think spray tanning saved my body confidence. I think being exposed to so much nudity made me think, oh, everyone's got a little bump that they don't like.

Everyone's got a lump somewhere. Everyone's got something that knocks their confidence off. And actually, it was more rare for someone not to apologize. I'd remember that more. And then I really realized that when a client left the spray tan booth, I actually never remembered any part of their body. whereas I always thought people would talk about my body. I thought people would say, hasn't he got thin,

isn't his arms thin? Have you seen how fat he's got? That was the dialogue in my head. And then I realized, well, I'm not thinking that about anyone else. So chances are other people aren't. People are just so wrapped up in their own stuff. So yeah, that's kind of it in a nutshell, really. We can unpack it more and more.

But that's what led me to, that's what kick-started my body confidence journey. and I think that journey only started like four years ago and the dialogue still goes in my head I don't think there is a peak of body confidence that you reach it's interesting what you just said about that I think that's so important like that the spotlight effect where you think that everyone

you're overestimating how much focus there is on you and your appearance where in fact people just don't care and they don't remember like you said at the end of the appointment you'd be like oh I actually can't like picture that body you know because it's just it's not that interesting information that we think it is in our own heads and we really build it up to be like when people won't go to the beach and take their sarong off or whatever or won't take their t-shirt off if they're a man because they think people are looking at them

and staring and pointing and judging whereas actually like people are way too invested in their own shit right and if they are pointing and judging it says more about them than it does about you I think as well when it comes to the body, we have to think actually what is a human body is a combination of our parents' DNA and a reflection of the environment that we're in. Of course I don't have the body of an athlete or a Jean-Paul-Gote model

because that's not what I do. That's not my lifestyle. I think that never occurred to me. I'm like, well, I don't have a body of an athlete. I'm like, because I'm not an athlete. Yeah, you're not training like 12 hours a day. like we're not that's not your job your body is just a reflection of you and actually my body changes all the time if I'm stressed I will eat more because I comfort eat some people actually lose weight if they're stressed but also the same can be said about being happy the constant changes in our body is just a reflection of our surroundings combined with our DNA and our metabolic rates but also So something that I'm learning now is that age massively plays into this.

And I think we can open up the conversation of comparison of why doesn't my body look like insert reference point. But self comparison is happening more and more with time hop and Facebook memories. And, you know, when you open Instagram, sometimes there's that memory right there. And you're like, oh, my God, look how thin I am. Look how thin I am. And actually, I think that was 15 years ago, Jules, like get a grip. You're not going to have that body because that's not the place. that you were then and this is where you are now.

Yeah, that's really annoying about Instagram doing that. I get really frustrated. It actually took me like a really big thing because because I'm still so young, sorry. Nothing to apologise for all. Because I'm still in my 20s, it hasn't occurred to me that I've aged, like, at all, because I'm like, I'm still really young. But then actually, like, I have. Actually, we talked with this, like, as a last one we moved all together.

But like, I have because it's just, you just do, like, as you get older, but it's really weird to do it at a time. Like, it's always been weird with magazines and stuff, but online with, like, all the filters and everything. Like, you're getting older, but then you've got your past photos of yourself, but were they filtered? So were you that in? And it's like, we've got such a distorted view of all the past versions of what we've been,

even. I just, I find it very, I think when I, when, I think it's one thing, the fact that I feel this stuff now. But when I'm 50 and we look back, it's going to be like, what, like, weird. Like, I think we're going to all have, like, real. identity crises about ageing, because I don't think we've, even if we have aged, we don't show very much. Do you know, I'm not explaining this very well. No, you are. Like even the Paris filter, like that sort of thing. I think we're not, we so, we so don't share. I haven't explained

it well. I've actually ballsed it up. Well, filters in general are really warped if you think about it and the fact that society just accepts them like, oh yeah, these are great. You can just look younger. What? Yeah. What's wrong with how I am now? And also I think I definitely was a massive face tuner in my 20s. When Instagram first came in, I was a huge face tuner. I can get rid of, I can change my body shape in no time because I literally did it on every single photo. I made myself thinner, took away all the blemishes, made my eyes brighter. And that had a huge negative impact to how I saw my own reflection. Because I was like, why don't I look like that image? Well, because you've augmented that image and you've changed it.

And I make a very conscious effort of not filtering my images now. And I leave blemishes in and sure, good lighting, what's not to love. But I'm not going to sit and put filters on. And if I do, I make a joke out of it. But I think, I think filters are incredibly damaging to our self-esteem and our body confidence. And I don't think, I don't think I'd be able to, if I hadn't done spray tanning and I hadn't navigated my 20s the way that I did. I don't know if I'd be able to do it again in the way that it is now. I think it's incredibly difficult. I think it's therefore down to us

to not put filters on things and to own the raw image. Because it does create, those filters does create another standard. It creates another standard of beauty, but I think it's even more sinister because it's you. You are the standard of beauty. It's not like you're looking at a different random person thinking, I have to look like that. I mean, it's creating another standard a beauty that is you but also not you and it's entirely unattainable. Was it you? Like when you look back at it, be like, was that me? What's actually me? Yeah. But it just, it makes like I, I did this post where like I put a filter on my, like on an image that I really liked. I was like how I look in this. Like it was no great shakes,

like not much makeup, but I just liked it. I don't know. It's just like a cute photo. No great shakes. And then I put this, I did one of those auto filters on like perfect me or whatever app is. I shouldn't give it her time. And I'm not like the five second like glow up that it gives you like completely changes everything. And then when you go back to the original image, it looks like trash. Trash. It looks dull and like weird and and you look tired and washed out and pale. And it's so bizarre when you when you get this like shiny new version of yourself. Well this links to airbrushing and the old school magazine covers. Because Because when I started in the industry, I was working backstage on sets with celebrities for magazine shoots, cover shoots, and for editorials and advertising campaigns.

Yeah. So I saw the airbrushing before it was even happening on social media. And I remember so clearly there was an advert for a big brand. I did the spray hands and the body makeup on the set. And I remember seeing the images come up on the monitor, flash, flash, flash. There they were. The model was changing. six months later that model's on the side of a bus

and I was thinking she didn't bloody look like that on the day like no way that's not her but then what made me sad was my friends would only see that image they'd only absorb that image of that model they didn't see what I was seeing which was almost like behind the curtain of the industry I was like this is a massive issue

but then actually when FaceTune came out I remember saying to myself, well, if so-and-so can have her face, her wrinkles removed on the cover of Vogue, then why can't I for my social media? Right. And I think actually, as somebody who is part of that celebrity go-to beauty list, let me tell you, the people doing the hair, the makeup, the tan, the nails, they are the best in the business. So that person is going to look an absolutely amazing version of themselves because they have so many, any, like, well-trained experts doing the job.

But actually, you don't have that in day-to-day. I don't have, like, Val Garland doing my makeup every single day. So how can I expect to look like something that she's done, you know, somebody's face that she's done the makeup on? So I think that we have to have this reality checklist in our head. Because ultimately, I don't think we're ever going to get rid of filters and we're not going to get rid of people removing their imperfections because the demand will always be there.

and therefore a business will always serve the need for demand. But I think we have to have the checklist that says what she had, what's been going on there. Okay, she's had a professional makeup party. She's had her hair done. There's probably a team of people doing lighting, incredible cameras. But she ain't just going down the road to the supermarket.

Like, she didn't look like that when she left the studio. We said this. We were talking about this a couple of weeks ago about the Kardashians. And it was like, we were like, but they've had. And then it was like, this pause. I was like, what have they actually had? And it's so, like, I was thinking about it on a, I was trying to explain it to my Alex. I was like, if I wanted to look like Kim Kardashian, what would I have to do?

And he was like, what do you mean? And I was like, genuinely, like, if I wanted to look like her, what would I have to do? And then I started thinking about it. And then I got really panicked. Because it's like, she must be doing so many, no shade, but she must be doing so many things. And I genuinely wouldn't know where to start. But she also has teams of people getting her ready. But that's what I find amazing.

Like, and I sit there and I did, like, when you compare, we, I mean, we seem to have been, like, on a real self-detrimand path recently. Yeah. Close the trash. Like, last week we just went on this massive thing about how bad art. We've been in a style rot, I think. Yeah. We're trying to pull ourselves out. We're getting out of it.

Also, girls, we're in between seasons. You cannot beat yourself up for style rut now. Thank you, and also, then we need to do a wardrobe warrior when we're in the middle of the season. And that's when you go through and you're like, okay, I haven't worn it. And you get rid of it. Yeah, that's got to go. But anyway, I think between the style rock we've been in and then Kim Kardashian with the bleached eyebrows and stuff,

I was just like, oh my God, I wouldn't even know where to start. Like, you'd go to like a facialist and be like, can I have, what do you even have? It's actually wild how much stuff there is out there. I don't think I've ever had a spray tan, can I say, which is weird. Oh, my gosh. I know. Have it?

No. What? I know. Well, we need to rectify that. Yeah. I think I had one, like, those automatic ones where you go in. No, I do not want to hear about that. That's like asking for a machine to cut your hair.

They're ludicrous. It was actually one of the worst days ever. Mine went fine and this is just so unfair. This is just like life is so cruel to my sister. In terms of jeans, like she just got so many, like, annoying. Like, she cannot go in the sun. Like, she's like super allergic to the sun, which must be so annoying because me and my brother were like, hi, some worshipers.

Anyway, so we were like, well, go to a spray time. I'll go with her. We went for a spray time when it was automatic ones. And then who's allergic to the spray town? Oh, no. And she went in. And then it was, we looked all right for a bit. I looked fine the whole time.

But then her face swelled up. And it was really bad. Deeply distressing. It was, I'll show you a photo. It's so bad. So bad. Everything swelled. And I've never felt more sorry for a person in my life.

I was like, we only went there because you wanted a tan for the holiday. Did she look tan? No, no, she went super red. She had a really bad, love your reaction. She didn't, no, it was a whole thing. It was really bad. Anyways, that was my only experience with Prater. The point I'm trying to make, like, I just, it's so much maintenance for a normal person to do.

You wouldn't even know where to start, even if you could afford all of this stuff. You wouldn't even know where to start looking for it. But also, you don't necessarily know all the different things that can be done. I do. I know all the different things. Right. Yeah. But if you're just on Instagram and you're looking at images coming up, like,

Celebs pose pictures of themselves in their normal clothes, but actually they're on a, they're on a shoot. Like, they're posting and they're like, just popping out. Like, no, you're not. You're in a studio. You've had your makeup done. You're under lights.

Like, let's not be silly. Well, you, the other day when you were taking your nice outfit pick and you stood on the side of the bath. You're in the know. Tragic. I was like, look at ourselves in the mirror like, what the fuck am I doing? See, Alex is the kind of girl you need to compare yourself to.

Not Kim Kardashian. Right. I will take that as a compliment. I think that's my new bio and the kind of guy I need to compare yourself to great

that's your next book just compare yourself to me okay well on that note but what I find really interesting about what you do as well is that you are one of very few people that talk about male body image

and male body confidence right I mean you'll know more because you're in that space so you'll probably be connected to a lot more people but I'm in this space and I can think of like three people you included that actually talk about male body image and male

body confidence whereas I can think of thousands of women am I right in thinking that it's a very small pool or am I just not exposed? I think that I have a male body but actually I think the general

gender within body confidence issues, that's the real top line discussion here because it's not necessary. A body is a body and how you identify and how you look in the mirror and how the conversation that you have with yourself when you look in the mirror is your conversation, regardless of your body shape or your gender identification.

I think that the conversation is definitely much more open within women, like 98% of my followers of women. Oh, they as going to ask that. So I definitely, even though I have, I'm in a male body, the conversation that I'm having is predominantly with women because that's something that they identify with. However, I do have conversations with my male friends and particularly my straight male friends. But in the male world, it's a lot more introverted and it's a lot more backhanded compliments around, you know, they kind of own their imperfections. But actually, I think when you boss,

it down, it's still there as an insecurity. The most of the two obvious things I think for men are hair loss and dick's eyes. Like they're the two things that men, that's an instant go to insecurity if something doesn't feel right. I don't necessarily think it's weight unless it's, you're in an area where jokes are maybe made fun of like a school environment because that happened to me. But I think it's more about how you're in an area where jokes are maybe made fun of like a school environment because that happened to me. think it's more about how you identify in yourself and if you're comfortable in your own skin. And I actually think women are just more aware than men. I think they're more aware of their feelings, their emotions, and also how they are as an individual.

I think maybe that's something to do with the magic of the cycle, whereas I don't think men have that constant check-in each month of like, I just don't think that that's there. I think it's just a constant movement. And women predominantly bear the burden of beauty standards. Like that's undeniable, I guess, as well. But men do have like certain pressures. Like even to be mostly or like, I think that kind of like that's something that I've always been. And I think you're right.

Like they kind of hide it under jokes. Like if I watch like my brother like exchanging with my husband, I find them very fascinating. They're very different people. But I find like their way of communicating just very fast. fascinating, even about, you know, if they're on a beach together or in that situation, like, as a few, like, bro comments are made about whatever. And it's just, like, not bad comments.

You know, they're not, like, bullying each other. But I just find it very interesting how, like, men, I don't think, and I don't know, you'll know more, but I don't think that men, like, look forward to the summer. I don't think it's like, all men are just, like, you know, because women dread a holiday because you're like, oh, God, I'm speaking so normatively. But, you know what I mean? It's kind of an expected thing that, like, a weird beginning. quite like apprehensive about getting in a bikini or whatever and we kind of assume that for men it's

like no big deal they just take the t-shirt off and crack up. Yeah but insert headline dad bod. Yeah. Like that's when you go health or leather and I think men actually do get incredibly insecure because they have they do the shred and that's a talked about thing where if you're going on stagdews to Ibitha, Vegas, all of that kind of thing in your pool side then there is an immense amount of pressure there to have that aesthetic body. Yeah. I don't have a sister. I have a brother and growing up instant comparison trap because wait we came from the same place how are we so different he's very slim very athletic doesn't put on weight so growing up i just really fell into comparison traps left right and center i in the last four years have started an exercise regime

and a fitness journey that i'm really enjoying he said to me the last time i saw him i wish i had your arms. First time he's ever said that to me. He's like, I just can't bulk up my arms. And I was like, what? What? This is crazy. I didn't expect you to ever compare your body the other way, but people do. Yeah. Yeah, that's so true about the shred. I think, I don't know, I wonder like, have you been exposed to like, do men diet in the same way, have men dieted in the same way that women? Because we always associate it with our moms, you know, like, you know, cabbage sleeping or whatever but do you i don't know why i'm asking you to speak for all men but yeah the voice of yeah um no definitely i definitely think they do and i think it's known that

obviously beer gives you a beer belly so men will hold back on the amount of beer that they're drinking i think also vegan lifestyle sports i definitely think it's there but i don't necessarily it's not it's almost like a conversation of being anti-thin that they have they want to be big they want to be masculine. They want those big arms, that big chest. Whereas I have the other way, I just constantly compared to being thin. So I just think it's how you identify in your own body and your own surroundings. Yeah, it's really weird. Like my Alex like has to eat loads. And I just don't sympathise what we get straight. He's like, oh, I just have to eat all these pizzas because I just like have to. I'm sorry. I don't feel sorry for you. My metabolism has been on furlough.

I think for like 20 years. I just can look at a piece of cake and I'll just put weight on. That It's just my body type. It's just my body type. But if Alex forgets to eat breakfast, that's it. It's none of his clothes fit. He's hang up. He has to, like, sustain. But neither.

It's not good or bad. It's just, as Celine says, the way it is. That's just the way it is. It's just neutral. And then yet we live in a society that, like, puts negative or positives on it. Yeah. But I always think when Dave's with his mate, it's like the casual way that they discuss each other's bodies in a derogatory sense is quite

and I think that's very normal but it is alarming to me because women would never do that to each other Yeah you could like go up to a man and like jiggle his tummy and be like oh I've got a few beers Yeah

But if you did that to the only I'd punch you in the nose Like what happened to the wedge thread You know like just thing yeah And there's the element of being able to laugh it off But I think there's also the element That you might not see of when they go home And they look in the mirror And then they question that

And then they might make changes from that. But so I think, you know, if think about the men that are around your brothers, boyfriends, husbands, and just I think it's always good to just be that open person with men and just have the conversation if it needs to happen because it's not a conversation that they're going to have with their friends. It's not a conversation. They probably won't listen to body confidence podcast or follow body confidence accounts. It's just not really something that they are leaning into.

They don't want to follow loud stuff, sports, you know, that kind of thing. Sports and tits, I think. Which just didn't naturally come out of my mask. I really struggled saying that. But I think it's good to be the voice and good to also be the ears for them. It's true because it's an assault. It feels like an assault on their masculinity, I guess, to admit vulnerability in that way. But men do have eating disorders.

Just as we fight for people to recognize. that eating disorders don't have a certain look, as in like you don't have to be really thin to have an eating disorder, like eating disorders don't look a certain way. But also it can be men with eating disorders as well, and I think that gets so overlooked, even like I'm guilty of it too.

Like when I think about someone with an eating disorder, it's always a woman, you know? And I actually think, Freddie Flintoff, did you watch his documentary? That was really brilliant, where he opened up about his bulimia, and it was quite shocking because I thought he was coming at it from a place of like,

now I'm recovered, I'm going to talk about it. and who's actually really in the thick of it. And I thought that was so important because there are so many men that are just dealing with this quietly and that makes me sad. So I really like what you do, even though, you know,

it's the vast majority of people that follow you are women. But I bet there are men, a lot of men who maybe don't follow you, but just look at your account and just feel better. And there definitely are men that follow me because they DM. They're very, they're not commenters, but they're DMers. Yeah.

And also gay men as well, because in the gay world, the body chat is savage, it is savage. It makes the girl chat around bodies look really easy to navigate. The gay world is, it can be really hardcore. And like when I wasn't feeling, you know, when I was really anorexic or just hating every single inch of how I looked, I just wouldn't go out. I wouldn't go to gay clubs.

I'd find it really difficult to meet other men because there is this instant, clock up and down if you go to a gay club and you're just being judged to fuck like it's so based on aesthetic and actually that can it is so confidence smashing I imagine like it completely can just tear you apart but you're like I have to go to gay bars to meet other gay guys and you go in there you even order a pine you feel judged because they're all on vodka sodas and that's quite difficult in itself so I think I think definitely within the body world the gay area for men is particularly difficult to navigate and I think that's where there's high areas of body dysmorphia and eating disorders can I ask how you kind of climbed your way out of anorexia did you

get professional help or was it something that you managed to navigate by yourself mainly by myself I moved to Australia after university which was a huge help because I was away from everything that I'd known I changed my norm and for me I was just in a completely different day to day however I was working in magazines on Australia and it was savage and like my grandma died I had to come back to the UK I went back home back to Australia and my editor was like, you're looking a bit fat after you trip to the UK, aren't you? I mean, that was in the workplace. I was just like, oh my God.

Oh, my God. But it helped me changing, being out of my social norm and moving to a different place. That, for me, helped. Then I think I became really obsessed with healthy eating. And there's a disorder, I can't remember what it's called. Orthorexia. Orthorexia, yeah. Which I don't think I realized I had until within the last three years, looking back.

And that was not necessarily healthy for me, but it definitely changed it up. It was, I was eating rather than weighing myself. But I also stopped weighing myself. Right. That was a massive thing where I don't have scales in the house. And I try, I just don't weigh myself ever now because I will not get on the scales because it can just send everything off. and as well I tried to not be so obsessed with numbers

which is something that I don't think I've started to learn until four years ago when we launched I La Paradise I really didn't like how I looked I knew I wanted to create a brand that represented the bodies that I saw in the spray tan booth but I wasn't there with my own confidence and I think it was only because of Isla Paradise as well that I started to share my journey online because I thought well if I've got a brand

that's talking about body confidence but I'm sat here pulling myself apart at home that doesn't make sense so I kind of owe it to myself to be genuine to the audience they were speaking to but I remember we did a shoot for out of paradise and they said you know it would have been talked about that maybe I should be shot without my clothes on as part of the shoot and on the shoot we never I've never posted the pictures but I did it and I went into the toilet and just cry I stopped and I had to leave the shoot I was like I want to go home because I just I feel like I'm not ready I'm not there but it was I had chosen to put myself in that arena and I wanted to make progress but I just wasn't ready um I also was attacked in a bar um just before Ila paradise launch as well

and I think that it was in a gay bar and when you get attacked um there's a moment where you really have to have a conversation with yourself and i had a lot of therapy after that because somebody came into my space violated it beat the shit out of me in a gay bar and then you think i could have fucking died then so i've got two choices i can either carry on this cycle of going round and round and being horrible to myself or i can just get on the fucking box shout about how fucking great I am and own it because they're the real two doors. And that's what I did. I was like, I'm going to stop being a bitch to myself.

I'm going to be nice to myself. I'm going to be proud of who I am. And actually the shape of my body and the size of my body is good enough. It's absolutely good enough. I don't need to validate my appearance to anybody. And if you are talking about my appearance when I leave this studio and or if you seen it on the cameras online. It says more about you than it does about me because the actual the most important thing is what comes out of my mouth, is my actions, is how I communicate,

is how I be in day-to-day surroundings, not the number in the back of my fucking clothes, because that doesn't mean anything. And no one's going to talk about that when I'm dead. No, but they might talk about this outfit because it is very good. I was like, anyone who's speaking shit about this is like, can I have to take it up with us. It's true though. And I think a lot of people, a lot of people kind of know that rationally, but making, like, trying to make that real in your head is really difficult. But it is so true, like, you're going to leave here today and we'll go, wasn't that? And then, like, that was a great, that was such a good interview. Like, he was brilliant. You hope that's what we did. And actually, we will forget what you look like.

Do you know what I mean? That won't be what lasts with me. But I think that that is my, that's what I want everyone to remember that actually your aesthetic is not what people will remember you by when you are on your deathbed somebody said this to me when you're on your deathbed taking your last breath are you going to go god i'm glad i i'm glad i didn't eat that you know meal no are you fuck you're going to be like that was great i'm going to remember all the things that i did all the things that my body allowed me to do so hold on to that don't hold on to this whole preconditioned thing that's about the size of our body, the number in the back of our clothes, how many calories are in the meal, just enjoy life because we're only going to get it

once, we're going to blink and it'll be done. And in 200 years, no fucker's going to be talking about me. Do you know what I mean? So why am I stressing about who's talking about me now? 100%. It's so true. And what? Like what? You just have to sit and wait for all these people to die? Like, or to dis, they're not going anywhere. Do you know what I mean? All these people that you build up in your head that you're so scared of. They're not going to have to keep coexisting. I really like your outlook online because it does feel like, and I don't know if this is actually the case, but it does truly feel like you don't give a fuck about people judging

you now. I don't give a fuck what anyone thinks about me. I don't. But I really believe that when I spend time with you as well, because actually, I think sometimes for this like self-love stuff and this body confidence stuff, you can. kind of people can put you in a box and they can kind of assume like oh you'll be very like you're in the beauty industry and you'll be very like soft and and and he loves himself and then he must love everyone but actually when you meet you've got this kind of like stridentness to you that's definitely like I really don't give a fuck and I think that's really cool and I also really like seeing that in women who are like totally like I'm great but I'm not going to put up with your shit like just because I'm putting up with my shit doesn't mean I'm going to put up with your shit I think that comes. from shitty situations, trauma, not having an easy time navigating all those years of school and early 20s, etc, etc.

I also think it comes from boundaries. It comes from, like I say to my, if somebody doesn't make me feel good, am I fuck hanging out with them? What is the point? Like, what are you bringing me? Because I'm bringing you joy and fun and laughter. and we're going to have all the lulls. But if you're just sucking the life out of me

because you don't feel great about yourself, then I'm not getting anything from this situation. And I think, you know, people say to me, how do I become body confident? How do I be more confident? And this is why I always go back to the real glow comes from within because you can use every highlighter,

the best self-tan in the world, all the different clothes you can want. If you feel like shit on the inside, it shows. and you're not really glowing. I think that in order to do that, you have to accept your body for how it is and accept that physically, this is my DNA, this is my surroundings, this is where we're at.

I also think you have to notice comparison to other people. Am I comparing to other bodies? Is this? Am I falling into comparison traps of stuff that isn't even real, i.e. comparing yourself to Kim Kardashian. But also, who is around me? Are people lifting me up or are people trying to pull me down? Because I don't want to hang out with people that are pulling me down.

I just want to be lifted up because that's all I'm doing to everybody else. I'm cheering you on just that you're cheering me on. Then that has a massive knock on effect to how you feel. Because ultimately, when you leave the house every morning and you shut the door, you need to feel fucking great. So do whatever you need to do to feel amazing. And if that means cutting people out, if it means using the fate tan, if it means dressing the way that I am for just making you making yourself feel more

confident great do it because that's what it's all about oh my god me too we don't need to do like punch the air anymore we're fine actually we still do but like I want to ask how you because I imagine a lot of people will say to you like they say to me because I fake town all the time as you know can't stop won't stop um a lot of people say to me yeah but you're you talk about accepting your body why can't you like accept that you're a pale person and that you why are you tanning what do you say to people who say that to you i would probably laugh in their face um firstly it's not about them it's about me yeah there's a really cathartic process when you tan you are alone in front of the mirror naked touching your body in a non-sexual way so there is this link for me

between body confidence and tanning not about the final appearance but just about the process in itself yeah i also think that in a world of selfies and taking pictures if your skin is like wearing makeup if your skin is looking even and glowy whatever its tone how whatever shade of tan you choose then you feel more confident you feel happier when you look at it but also not everybody tans that's okay but for those who do tan it's like Like they're, it's just part of a beauty regime. And I personally, I couldn't live without tan. I just couldn't.

I just prefer my skin, not in its colour, but in its tone. I just prefer it when I'm tanned. Me too. I don't think I could live without it. I don't think I'll ever stop wearing it. I think I'm too lazy. But then I fully moisturised every day, so I don't know why. Do you?

Yeah, my whole body every day. Then you can defot tan. Yeah, if you've got that commitment. I eat oil and then moisturise. every day when I get out of her. She's frictionless. My whole body, yeah, I'm like a slug. A seal.

Getting into bed must be really hard. You have to do it in the morning. Because otherwise you just stand there like such a dork. If you do it just before you get into bed, you literally have to just like spin round in circles and dry yourself. So I wash my legs. Yeah.

Wash my legs. And then I oil and moisturise everything. And then sometimes I'll put oil on at nighttime as well. But life's a lot. a bit short for that because you do have to do this stupid spin around the bedroom. But everyone's got their thing. And I think the beauty industry, as much as we can idealise the fashion side of the beauty industry, there is also this lovely, soft, gentle part of the beauty industry that's just

about you and you doing something that makes you feel good. Like, I don't moisturise my body. I just cannot be bothered. I don't have time. I can't wait for it to sink in. But you do. But it's true. Like, fake tan just makes me feel so good.

I don't know. It makes me feel like myself. which obviously ironic because it's not like it makes me feel like a glowier like better version of myself I don't know and the thing is like I know fake tan isn't going to change the world but if you feel more confident when you're using self-tan or any beauty product then it might change the world that you're in therefore it's worth doing and that's something that I would notice as a spray tanner that every week people would come to me for hope and for the this hit of feel good, it was, it became less about the tan and more about, A, the feeling of

being naked, I would obviously make you just have the best time ever. We'd just loll all the way through. But then you'd be left with this like gorgeous glowing skin. What's not to love? Like what, what, there's nothing to pull apart there. And I really feel like people do this particularly to women, like, and really make you feel like we owe it to feminism or to like body confidence or to whatever to not need this stuff. You know, people really come and they go, look, I really like what you do, but you do this and blah, blah. And people really try and trick you out.

A hundred percent. But I think it's a very interesting thing. We do hold people to such high standards. And anybody that adheres to a beauty standard like putting fake tan on or wearing makeup or whatever, you'd use that as a means of like disregarding perhaps the fact that they're clever or that they disagree with something else. You know, we're not very good at letting people be nuanced or multidimensional or hypocritical or whatever. And I actually just think, like, as long as we do live in this completely image-focused

world, which we will continue to do so forever, we can still challenge that and be frustrated and annoyed and rage against it, but also conform to it in a way that makes us comfortable. Because if we don't, it's really hard. Like, you make your life so hard to, you know, if you want to do that. But also, if you want to do it, do it if you don't, don't. It's your life. What you're doing behind closed doors really doesn't affect me. People apologize So there's so much, they're like, I can't believe I have, I don't look at my tan or I haven't tan or I'm really sorry. I just don't like tan.

I'm like, I couldn't give a shit. I literally don't care. It's okay. If you don't tan, it's so fine. I've got a girl on a team. She works with me on Yan Tan, which is the knitwear business that I have. And she doesn't tan. And she's like, I feel really bad because half of your career is tanning.

And I'm like, don't even stress about it. Like, as long as you like who you are, I really don't care if you tan or not. Like, it's got nothing to do with me. It's like if you hand in all the employees, like you have to turn them on the way in. You can't work here if you don't do it. It's so true though because in this, especially in like our space,

like the body confidence, positive, whatever you want to call it, space, there is so much judgment for like, but not even just like makeup hair, fake tan, but also both injectables and plastic surgery and losing weight. And it's deemed a threat to

dismantling beauty standards and, you know, a threat against feminism. But like what I think it, What I actually believe is more of a threat to both of those things is the judgment around it. Because it's like we are humans, we're complex, we're messy, we're nuanced, living in a very complex messy, nuanced world, and we just need to survive in it and we're just doing our best. And like, yeah, the judgment just goes to go.

We had it when we had Nadine Baggett on the podcast a couple of weeks ago and like the people in the comment and it's always people that have, and they always start the comment going, I haven't listened to the podcast, but it's just like, I really can't help you. Like, you won't help yourself. but because we talked about ageism with her which actually was super interesting because it's just something that I've just not given an awful lot of thought to

but people were commenting being like well how can you take this from somebody who has had inject or she's had Botox or whatever it was and they were all judging that based on the image as well she didn't say in the clip what she'd had or anything and that hadn't even come up but people completely disregard what a person says because of a preconception

that they have about them and I think that's something, and I wonder if you've seen it in the beauty industry, like, where people think it's, like, silly or, like, it's not to be taken seriously because it's just beauty. Do you know what I mean? Like, obviously. Oh, yeah, beauty.

The beauty industry is always taken as, like, a real fluffy industry. Yeah. But it's really, like, it's trivial. It's real business, you know. But I also think, God, just imagine the time and energy wasted bitching about what somebody else. is doing with their life imagine if you didn't do that with your time if you didn't slag off

what someone's doing or invest yourself in what somebody's doing with their own life and actually use that time elsewhere you'd probably be a lot more productive and you could use that for good like saving kittens or working at a dog sanctuary or but it's like just and I'm sure people listening to this I'm sure there's not a lot of like hate slingers in this crew but actually it's just not about that vibe. And I think for me, in the beauty industry, there are tables of bitchiness and gossiping. And I've sat on so many shoots

where it literally starts with one person who moans about their thighs or their weight or maybe they've had a baby and they can't lose the baby weight. And the next person goes, oh my God, I tell you what I don't like about myself. And the next person chimes in. And I sit there and I'm like, this is collective negative manifesting. You are literally each of you telling the universe that you hate your body,

you hate how you look, you're focusing on the negative and not on the positive. How are you ever going to get out of that space? How are you ever going to move forward if you're just focusing on the bits that make you stuck? What's the point? So I'll either point it out to them and be like, just want to sidle on in here and say what you're doing is fucked. Or I'll just walk away from me.

it and choosing to walk away from it, choosing to ignore it, turn your back on it. Actually, I'm the most important person to me right now and how my feelings are. So I'll choose to ignore that discussion. Thank you very much. Can I ask about imposter syndrome? Because that's something that you've talked about. And I like the way you approach that. So do you, you have felt imposter syndrome? All the time. Right. Do you still? All the time. Right. Yeah. Not as much. I think when I recognize, so imposter syndrome is when the little voice inside your head comes in and says, you can't do this, your shit, look what they're doing. It's the negative voice, the negative Jiminy cricket. And I think comparison and imposter syndrome work hand in hand.

For me, I compare to people like Charlotte Tilbury and Jen Atkin and Jonathan Van Ness because they all have beauty brands and they're all doing their things. So for me, the trigger will instantly go to that. But I also, I have to remind myself that I'm not that person. But imposter syndrome, there's two ways that you can look at it. Yes, it can be viewed a negative way that it's crippling and it stops you from being productive. But on the other hand, it can be put as a driver to make you work even harder to be your better self. I think that imposter syndrome can be really crippling and I understand that

from a body point of view where I hated I just wouldn't leave the house I'd cancel plans because my imposter syndrome was telling me that I was going to a pool party that everyone would be looking at my body

so therefore I wouldn't go but on the other side imposter syndrome if it's put in a work sense I think if you view it as a tool for drive actually can be very beneficial but it's hard imposter syndrome is hard

and nobody is part of the conversation with you and yourself and the conversation with you and yourself is the longest conversation you'll ever have in your life and actually in those times when imposter syndrome is crippling I really try to remind myself that I need to be my own best friend I need to have my own back in this situation because if I let this inner demon win well we moving forward and do we want to be stuck in this place no so if the conversation and if imposter syndrome happen and a lot of the time it happens to me at the wardrobe and if clothes aren't fitting and I have a wardrobe meltdown and there's clothes everywhere and I just fucking hate

everything in that wardrobe and it's we peel it back and it's actually because I'm not feeling good in my body I might be feeling a little bit bloated maybe I haven't worked out but in those situations where imposter syndrome is rife and it's running through you, I leave the house or I leave the workplace, I put the laptop down because I just think I need to change this up. I need to go for a walk. I need to do something nourishing for myself and then we'll come back to it tomorrow because right now we're not going in the way that I want this to go. And gain perspective, I guess as well, zoom out and be able to gain perspective. It's so like, I mean, this is like imposter syndrome, not to make it all about me, but is a big thing for me

and what was a huge thing for me, like during my 10 years at Hello, I never felt like I should be there. I felt like I was a fraud. I felt like I was obsessed with the idea that I wasn't a good enough writer, like I shouldn't be there. And perspective and hindsight is wonderful

because I look back now and think, I absolutely deserve to be there. And actually these negative thoughts actually hindered me in my job and my role. And it's... But then you wouldn't be where you are now. Yeah, that's a good point. you they wouldn't you wouldn't be on the path that you're on now so actually it's they steered you in

the way that you were supposed to go because you could go down the route of why am i not editor i you know i could have been editor if i'd stay there blah blah blah blah blah but actually that's not you you are more than that you are more than that path that you probably created for yourself yeah you could have been editor at hello but instead you have to sit here next to me and do this you can do anything you want to do you can do anything you want to do you just have to put your mind to it thanks guys yeah i feel like i've turned this into a therapy session but i do get i do get imposter syndrome massively and like there was a time in where i had to go to las vegas with ala paradise and sephora and like that was a position that i never really thought i'd be in and it was

it was our first year of launching i was in Vegas out of my depth and i was sat at a dinner next to Jen Atkin, next to Zana, who's the founder of milk makeup. Charlotte Tilbury was at the other end of the table. That's a lot. And I was at this table and I was, I was in H&M clothes. Like, I didn't have any fucking money. They were all designed up to the nines. Everyone's drinking champagne.

Everyone knew each other and no one talked to me. And I was just like, oh my God, why am I at this table? I didn't have any of my friends with me. Yeah. I ate, like I tried really hard to talk, but I didn't have anything. I hadn't done the job long enough. so I didn't have much to talk to them about. And then the next day I had to go and stand on this booth for Isle Paradise.

I just couldn't leave my hotel room. I was freaking out. I was like, I can't do this. Everyone's going to think I'm the fraud. But I had to. I didn't have a choice. I had to go and do it. I had to go stand on that booth.

And actually, I did it. And Jen Atkin came over and she said, I wanted to talk to you last night, but I didn't get the chance. And it's so nice. And I've seen her since. and I think it's all in my head it's all in my head they've been there people have been in this position

I can't let that stop me and that was a real turning point for me in imposter syndrome was I could have not left the hotel room I could have stayed in that hotel room probably got bollicking for my business partner the next day for not being on the booth or I could have just put the pants on and gone

and I'm so glad I did go because it all worked out in the end yeah to finish it would be so good if you could, what would you say to anyone who's listening who might be struggling with low self-esteem, feeling imposter syndrome or feeling bad about their body? That's a lot. Sorry, I've like completely put you on the spot with that. But what would you say to them if you could, if you could talk to them directly, which actually

you are doing so, yeah. Well, I think everything that you just listed falls under the pillar of confidence. And whether it's confidence in your body, confidence in yourself, confidence in how you are day-to-day, Remember that the ship of confidence in the sea is one big ship. And ships don't turn in a day. That wheel has to turn slowly, slowly each time. And then the ship will be on the course that you want it to go on. So don't beat yourself up that tomorrow you're not going to wake up and feel the most confident version ever.

But remember every little thing that you do that's nice for yourself, that's not negative, that brings positivity into your day to day, will have a slow knock-on effect to tomorrow. and if you keep doing that, then the whole path shifts. This can be the tiniest thing, like writing a positive affirmation on a poster and putting it on the mirror, and that's the first thing you see in the morning. Or maybe don't scroll on Instagram just before you go to bed

and actually listen to something that makes you feel good or read something that brings you joy or hang out with the people that make you feel alive. Do whatever you need to do to feel happy as long as it's not harming anybody else or yourself and do that every day little and often and then the path will change because I did and it worked for me

so it's going to work for you. Thank you so much. That was absolutely stunning and God I feel good about myself now, do you? I do too. I feel great. Thank you so much, Jules. You're an absolute ray of light.

We love you. Should I delete that is part of the ACAS creator network. Thank you.