Should I Delete That? - Accidental Live Therapy Session

Episode Date: January 10, 2022

Welcome to ‘Should I Delete That?’, and our first episode of 2022! In their brand new segment ‘the good, the bad, and the awkward’, Em and Alex reflect on the past few weeks, covering everything from reaching number one in the podcast charts to getting shadow banned by Instagram! The girls turn to life coach Jacqueline Hurst for some fantastic tips on how to become less reactive to criticism, and they discuss the importance of feeling your feelings fully. In the final segment, Em and Alex share listeners’ embarrassing stories, and even let slip some zingers of their own…Follow us on Instagram @shouldideletethatEmail us at [e-mail] by L'OccitaneWith code DELETE, listeners can exclusively get 10% off purchases online at uk.loccitane.com, as well as free delivery on all online orders until 10th February 2022. Discount available for UK customers only.Produced & edited by Daisy GrantMusic by Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On October 17th, I'm an angel. See them wings? Don't miss the new comedy Good Fortune, starring Seth Rogen, Aziz Ansari, and Keanu Reeves, critics rave, needs haven't sent. Do you have a budget, guardian angel? Kind of. You were very unhelpful. Good fortune, directed by Aziz Ansari.

We are thrilled to share that this episode is sponsored by one of our favorite brands, French beauty brand, Loxetan. We've been fans at this brand for a long time, for their products, of course, but also for their longstanding and ongoing philanthropic work, which we weren't told to shout out about, but we just really wanted to. I've used their hand creams for years. They're enriched with sheer butter,

and they come in a variety of different beautiful sense, but my favourite has to be the lavender. The ritual of applying the hand cream combined with the delicate scent of the lavender from Provence really makes me feel so relaxed. Oh my God, have you been to France? Personally, I love the products from Loxetan's almond collection so much. It's hard to choose one,

but if I had to, it would be the almond shower oil, because it is amazing to me that I can get so moisturised in the shower. Loxetan have given us an exclusive discount code for listeners of should I delete that to celebrate the launch of our new podcast. With the code delete, you can get 10% of purchases online as well as free delivery on all online orders until the 10th of February. Perfect for a pick-me-up purchase to beat those January blues. Hi, we're back

After a crazy week And we've got a name Welcome to the should I delete that podcast We finally settled And we made it to number one What the fuck What the fuck? Literally, what the fuck?

I am still in disbelief My mum was like, yeah but why And I was like, no but honestly I can't give you an answer And she was like, but why? like did some and I was like I don't know I don't know but it happened I don't think we should ask to like I don't I don't I don't look into it like it's just fine just leave it might be revoked it's exactly they could take it away it was an accident sorry like what the hell but also

thank you so much oh I seriously thank you like I always I don't know I always feel a bit cringe when I say like thank you to you guys but I mean it like thank you so much it actually does mean a hell of a lot to us. So much. Honestly, I sobbed like, because we didn't even want to put that out. I couldn't even make Alex listen back to it. I was like, please listen to it.

I didn't want to listen. Do you know what? I have actually never listened back to a podcast episode before, which is crazy. That I've done, I mean, because I just pick apart everything I say, but I did listen back. I'm glad you made me.

It wasn't as bad as I thought. Largely, thanks to our amazing production. producer Daisy Grant, who had to edit down about 10 hours of talking to an hour and a bit. So, love you, and over Christmas as well. And with our million edits, mine, because I'm a nightmare. And we didn't credit him, but my Alex, other Alex, made the jingle. I was going to say, we never credited him. He's in the show notes.

He's in the show notes. Thanks, Daisy. He's a music genius and he came up with our jingle. and yeah he's going to do some more for us isn't he he's going to do some more for our sections segment what you call them i was like oh what but also guys alex said she could hold a tune and then she fucking proved it oh i went all in didn't i did yeah i did i had no shame um it's just been the most amazing like yeah i sound real i'm terrible thing to say at the beginning of a podcast just lost for words speechless

speechless. So we're back. So yeah, it's 2022 now. We've got a weekly podcast. Yeah. And we've got a first guest today. We've got a structure. So our weekly structure, so our first weekly segment is going to be called the good, the bad and the awkward. Yeah. So the good, the bad and awkward, we're going to look back at our own weeks and find something good, find something bad and find something awkward. And because we are incredibly awkward, individual, that won't be hard. Yeah, I mean, I guess the point of the podcast in a big way is to make everybody feel better because we're also fucking messes. Totally, which is what, like, we kind of tried to get across with that first episode that we did.

Like, we know it wasn't polished, it wasn't perfect. It was slightly messy and unstructured, but, like, that's what we want to, like, we want to give you a glimpse into, like, how, like, the chaos. This episode, I think, will be incredibly helpful. for us, but hopefully for you as well. This guest and this interview were not for our questions. The interview wasn't amazing for our questions. The interviewers were lacking, but the guests.

Oh my God, it was just incredible. I can't wait to listen back. I know. I genuinely can't wait to listen back. I know. Genuinely, I think she's changed my life and it was only like 40 minutes long. So, what was your good? Oh my God, well, my good was that the podcast that we released went to number fucking one.

And I've never ever going to stop. If I ever have a week where that's not the good, then something really incredible must have happened. But yeah, I mean, it was Christmas. So Christmas was nice. I hung up with my goddaughter, which was epic. So basically, sorry to the baby Jesus and to the baby Olivia, but the best part of my week was a podcast going to number one. What about you? What was your good?

You stole my good. We can share this good. We can share this good. Yeah, epic. Still can't believe it. I genuinely can't believe it. I'm stunned. And I feel like I need to, well, I was going to say put it in my bio, but I have already.

So of you, haven't you? Yeah. Yeah, I've put number one podcast in my bio. See, we're such assholes. Even if we never get into the charts ever again, that can't be taken away from us. We've done it. You're bad. Let's get a bit heavy.

fine so I have cried a bunch to be honest I just I've had a tough time I've had a just a shit week and I don't really you know she's been a couple of things Instagram's I don't know what's happening something's going on with my account of in Shadow Band which is fine and my side boob is incredibly offensive so basically

you put up a picture of you with like a little bit of side boobs it's not even basically someone's going to do my old like old pictures and like Alex Cameron the phenomenal photographer like the proudest photo I've ever had taken of myself she took and it's art like I don't want to be it's a nude photo isn't it but it's stunning I don't want to be an asshole it's like hey I'm art but also I'm fucking claiming it because Alex is so amazing

it was incredible yeah and Instagram removed that and it was an old post and then they've been going back through and removing a lot of my old posts for like bullying and harassment when I make self detrimental jokes which is a lifestyle so they've got a lot to remove um it's bizarre yeah I just I had a lot of like targeting stuff on my account and then um also Also, like I have talked about this online, but The Daily Express, just written, like, a load of shit about me. They just made it sound like such a knob.

And they've just been writing so much. And obviously, on the back, they were, the headlines that they were publishing were inviting criticism, which came. Right. So I just basically started the new year, like just having people, a lot of people speaking about me

in a way that I wouldn't, like, necessarily want. Like it just didn't really, I don't know, it didn't make me feel stunning, which is why we've got the guests that we've got on today because I just started it feeling a bit like overwhelmed and anxious and very aware that like there were a lot of people like telling me that I was ugly and stupid and vacuous and non-entity and like all of this stuff. So they sound like really nice people. Yeah, I mean, like honestly, like happy fucking year.

Like, are you okay? What are you saying your basement? Like, I don't know why I see all these people who are in basements and they're probably just like sitting with their kids, but you know. The headlines were. so misogynistic and derogatory and they were you're right they were trying to invite criticism like and send it your way like that's what they they were like leaning on the fact that you were going to get criticism for it and they were going to get comments and and i think i'd have been

able to handle it just yeah it is clickbait but i was just tired and i just was like you know what i just like i can't like i think just on the double side of like having instagram come from my account and then having the the pieces written on the other side i was just like oh my god like i was a builder yeah And I, it's, everything's fine. Everything's, I'm fine. The raw squeaky boys, I'm fine. You sound fine, Em. Yeah, no, thanks.

I really feel it. No, I am. It was just like the first couple of days of January. I just kept, I was just like, oh God, it's just too much. And then whatever. But so that wasn't ideal, but also, you know, these things happen. And I'm really proud that we can talk about it because I think it's incredibly important that we talk about the way that the media

speaks about women and the way that the comments in turn react to that. So it's actually, it's been cool, it's been a good, conversation yeah you learn something from everything that you go through right and thank you because you were so supportive of me and i and that i really appreciate it's like i don't know for when some when something like that's happening you can feel really isolated and really like ashamed and like on your own with like i don't know so when people like have your back i'm like oh yeah i you feel like you're on your own in the spotlight yeah yeah yeah and you were in the spotlight and i get that that was very anxiety inducing and it was kind of like a buildup totally get it yeah i wanted to like

creep into 2022 like no sudden movement you know what I mean and then I'm like stealthy it got me so that was my bad that was your bad uh what was your bad this week we promised the messy didn't we so yeah um yeah so I had a bit of a mayor on Instagram actually a very public mayor that was pretty much entirely my own fault I called out a celebrity I'm not going to say her name because I just don't want to send anyone else her way but she came out with a weight loss transformation program on boxing day. It was a typical celebrity DVD style before and after. Look how much weight I've lost and now you can do it too. Like my DMs after she released it were like chockful, absolutely chock full of people who were affected by it. And I felt

compelled to say something, to say, you know, you don't need to do this. And this is just diet culture. Anyway, it got back to her and the whole thing. just kind of blew up and what really bothered me was that I upset her. I didn't, I genuinely didn't want to upset anyone and I was, I don't know if I was either stupid or naive. I'm not sure which one, but to think that she wouldn't see it and I'm really sorry about that. It's so difficult with this stuff because you never want to be angry with the individual because it's the culture that we rebel against, but often it's spearheaded by certain people and it's really difficult for you and your job but for everybody not to be

angry with the individual right because it's like you see it in action and you want to react like you know you want to make it stop and make it better and you're worried about the people that it's affecting totally every individual that perpetuates diet culture is actually just a symptom of the wider systemic problem and in hindsight I wish I wish I'd spoken up about it without any attachment to any individual. I wish I'd just called out the culture because there are like so many people doing this and so many people perpetuating this toxic culture. And I don't know how productive it is to instead just call out one individual.

I'm, you know, I'm working it all out and I, yeah, so I wish I hadn't and I'm just genuinely sorry about it. But yeah, I think there's, yeah, there's, there's power in knowing, like, that you made a mistake, I think, and, like, admitting it. Oh, my God, I do it all the time. I did it actually, like, I got some criticism on my post, post the other day. And then I put, shared it on my story. And then I was like, that was a wanky thing to do. So into the end of the end up, I'm like, should I delete that? Yes.

Yes. This is why the podcast is cool for it is. Like, it was so appropriate that. So aptly named. All of that was kicking off for you on Boxing Day and the podcast was being released on the 27th. Oh, my God. And I literally got a text from you being like, should I delete that vote?

So I was like, we have done a very good thing in the name of this podcast. It was like the weirdest timing. And some of the hate I was getting was like, you engineered this to promote your podcast. You guys overestimate our ability of taking criticism. We would never deliberately do something so scary. I would be a marketing genius.

Like give me an award if I'd done that. Maybe that is why we would. we got to number one. Maybe you are a marketing. Maybe that's it. So they're awkward. Have you done anything this week that's made you feel like a massive bell in? Um, or is the other one? Always. I'm the most awkward person in the world. Oh my God, no. I tripped over yesterday. I was walking. I was on my way home from my dog walk and there's like a greasy spoon calf next to where I live where like the guys like on the construction sites go every morning and we kind of have this like, we're not friends, but you know. I know. I know the deal.

So I just try and not look at them, just because I don't want to engage. I don't know. I don't know. Like, I hate the way explaining, like, you know how women feel when you walk past construction sites? No one's at blame. It's just how I feel. Yeah. Anyway, it's that.

I was walking past. I'm always a bit orcs, and I walked, and it was really slippery. And I slipped on the cobbles. And I just say, people were going, be. And I was like, ah. And I looked. I did that thing where you turn around and you're like, who did that? And I was like, I did that with my own feet.

And then I'm like, boo, I'm like, boo, don't look at me. So, yeah. Fine, just, I trip. You've got a good, love a good trip. And then I've got to go back this morning. I'm like, right? Pride in tatters. No dignity.

No. My awkward, I keep going on this morning, but my garlic breath, don't I? I keep going on about it. Yeah, and to be fair, our lovely producer Daisy did just bend over and Alex did the biggest. Yeah, that should be my awkward moment. Oh my God. It was such a bad time. So gross.

Yeah. I saw it in slow motion. Yeah, I have no shame in bear. Dave's hair, like blowing back. I actually hate eating garlic. I fucking love garlic. Yeah, no, I do, but I can't bear the after effects. I feel like I can taste it.

I feel like it's all anyone can smell. On the dinner I had last night, Dave was like, whoa, that is so garlicky. I don't know why he has a garlic shame. You like that? I really don't. He really did. And then he was like, don't come near me, don't come near me. Because it's like really bad garlic.

I'm staying well away from everyone today. I love it. I keep trying to get away, but it's being really stingy, with her sweat glands, she won't have been here than them. But yeah, actually, that was a really good awkward moment that I burped in our producer's face.

It's a professional podcast, and we're really proud of it. I'm a really good bertha. She's like, come out. Is that why she left? She said she's just popped out, but I don't think she's coming back. She's gone for therapy.

She's like this. Oh, speaking of therapy, let that lead a thin. Oh my God, what a good segue. Thank you, so it's almost what you planned it. Did you engineer this? Are you fraud? All the tools that I have, I learned from one person.

She's called Jacqueline. She is an incredible life coach. And I love following her on Instagram. Like, I genuinely, she puts out shit and I'm like, well, fuck. I am inspired. So I thought, we thought, since I'm a fucking mess, that this would be a really good opportunity to kind of talk through the anxieties that I've been feeling because I shared a post,

on Instagram yesterday with when we're filming this of me crying in the bath because that's the good quality content that people love it and kind of said that I was really struggling with overwhelm coming into this new year and so many people commented and said they felt the same way so we thought this would be a really good and valuable first episode she really is an expert life coach and we're really proud that she's come on to give us therapy literally it's live therapy I was so excited to speak to Jacqueline and meet her because you have talked to me about her and I've seen, since you've been seeing her,

I have genuinely noticed a shift in you and also how you help me manage my anxieties all the time quite often. So, and I've been feeling anxious as well, like all the stuff that I mentioned before and like whatever, just, I feel like everyone's just feeling anxious right now. There's a lot of pressure to not feel anxious and that in turn makes me feel anxious.

So I was really excited to talk to her and to upload, basically. I didn't mean to, but that's kind of how it ended up. It just falls out, doesn't it? It did. So Jacqueline Hearst is a life coach. She writes for GQ. She has a number one bestselling book called How to Do You, which I genuinely from the bottom of my soul recommend.

It's a really, really practical book. She's had an incredibly tough life. She describes it herself on her website, that she had a tough childhood, slipped into drugs and alcohol at a young age. She was anorexic, bulimic, depressed and suffering terrible anxiety and cripplingly low self-esteem. But in her med 20s, she hit rock bottom and couldn't continue and decided something had to change. Over the last 15 years, she studied all over the world.

She has helped herself. She has helped countless people along the way. We're so proud that she's here and so excited. I genuinely think what Jacqueline teachers should be on the curriculum. Like it should be mandatory learning. And I'm so excited even just for everybody to be able to pick up little bits of her wisdom because they are gold mites, dust particles. It's so exciting.

So without further ado, so excited. Welcome Jacqueline Hurst. Hi, Jacqueline. Hello. How are you? Good. We are so excited to have you on, me especially, because Em has raved about you. a lot, and I've advised me to see you a lot.

So I'm very excited to chat to you. I mean, God knows we need this episode. And we're going to try not to turn it into a live therapy session, but I suspect that's where we're headed. I mean, that's why I'm here, so. Yeah. So we want to start with a question that's a really big one, but a really important one.

and something that is kind of detrimental to both me and M, and I know a lot of other women's lives. So are you ready? It's a big question. I'm ready. Bring it on. Why do we need to be liked? Why do we have this all-consuming need to be validated by other people? It's a really good question. And it's something that so many people struggle with about validation and this needing to be liked.

and it's something that we're never really going to have any control over because we can't control what other people think or say or do. Why do we have it? I think we basically have it for, I mean, there's a million reasons which would take up the whole of this podcast. But one of the things one really needs to think about is our own security versus insecurity. And where did that start?

And it can start in childhood. It can start even as a kid, you know, like you're the eldest. And then suddenly you've got a brother come along and you're like, wait, go away, go away, it's me, it's me. And this is really an ego versus soul thing. And that's why mental health and doing your work, self-development work on your mind and your mindset and elevating into emotional adulthood,

this stuff really matters because that's how we release the need for people to like us or, you know, being stressed about what other people think. That's why this works really important, I think. Right, so just switch the validation. from external to internal. A thousand percent. Like, you know, when you've done your work, you understand that, you know, I'm sitting here on this podcast, there's going to be some people that are going to love what we're

about to talk about or they're going to say, oh, Jacqueline, that sounds great. I really resonate and that I really understand it and et cetera, et cetera. There will definitely be some people that don't think that's all and say, that's a load of shit. Who is she? She doesn't know what she's talking about. And all of that's okay. And none of that's got anything to do with me, right?

so when we learn how to release from that stuff I really believe that's total freedom it's like it's not even I mean having done this work with Jacqueline it's like for me it wasn't learning how to make everybody like me it was just learning that like I can't and it's like it's just a massive waste of energy like I'd see it as like inefficient to my life to just spend all this time being like love me because I can't make them but you like you also learn

not just that you can't but also that you didn't need it anymore you didn't you didn't need people to do that for you so you learn those two things and i think that's really important especially i'm with what you're doing when you know you're you're out there putting everything out of how you feel and what you think and you're authentic and you know the internet is a wild place the world is a wild place you know just before i got here i was just speaking to a girlfriend of mine in new zealand she went out on two days with this guy had a lovely time she called me at this morning she's like he's totally ghosted me and i said and i said welcome to the world right like this is what happens and you know we go out into the world and we assume

that everybody thinks the same as us and behaves the same way as us and you know views things the way that we do and they don't everybody's completely different they've all had a totally different way of being brought up their thought processes their belief systems their religions they're all of So, you know, this stuff, again, is why it's really important to unpack this stuff, to learn to unlearn the negative, to relearn how to handle people, places, things in a way that just were chill. But it's like letting people misunderstand or, like, not fully. See, I'm, I was so judgmental.

Like, I literally was like, I have my own standards for myself and they were really high. And then I would, like, project those onto other people. And it's like, why am I doing this? No one's ever going to be what I need them to be at that level. And what you're saying is so true. Like everyone is living their life and looking at everyone else's life through their own lens. A hundred percent. Which has been totally fashioned through like, you know, their upbringing, their surrounding their environment.

It's so true. But M and I, I think, are suckers for punishment. As two women who are sensitive and also, I think it's fair to say, quite fairly rejection sensitive. We live. I don't know what you're talking about. I'm really going to take criticism. See, I don't believe in rejection. I do, but I don't.

I don't believe in it. I believe that how I think about whatever that situation is really matters, how I think really matters. And if I think I have been rejected, that's going to make me feel awful. But I'm not a believer of rejection. Like this guy that ghosted my friend, that has nothing to do with my friend. Right. It's so true. This is a same thing.

But how do you get there? Say you're your friend, okay, and you've just been ghosted, it feels very personal and it feels very much like it's about you. It's got nothing to do with me. This is so fun because I love when she does this because it doesn't have anything to do with her. But how do you get to that place of making it, and it's not about me? I love this.

First of all, you've got to do your work, right? So it's really important. You know, you can't just click your fingers. I mean, you can if you're really involved in the work for a session. But mainly, you have to understand that what anyone else is doing is never about you. And it's like when we get dressed and we go out to a party and we put a dress on and we're like, oh, God, I'm not sure. And I don't know if I look good and I don't know this and da-da-da-da-da.

Nobody is looking at you or your dress or anything. They don't care. Why? Because they care about themselves. Right. And also, sorry, on the dress thing, oh, God, this is so fun. Because if they're looking at you and, okay, so maybe they think. like oh she looks a bit slottie for example like she's got her boobs out why is she thinking why does

that person think that because they've that's how they've grown up and they've grown up in a society that encourages them to slut shame and think this way about that's got nothing to do with me or my dress like jackman says all my boobs that's got everything to do with them and their thoughts and their prejudices and then and then you go one step further and you you then understand that weirdly she's allowed to have her opinion whoa guys she's allowed to think that wow but you you don't have to join her in that thinking and this is the key of like we're all allowed to have a difference of opinion why has the world gone into this it's got to be that way or it's got to be this way like let's just say you've got an opinion i've got an opinion and they're different and

that's okay and different is allowed it's allowed to be different the world would be weird if we all had the same opinion on everything right it would be boring right but where's the respect oh you're so right i also think i'm a bit guilty of this as well of being like arguing back when people disagree with me let them disagree just like make peace with it and let it go which is what my husband tells me to do all the time i feel like i have to explain yourself explain myself and respond and i'm defensive and i hate that i get defensive about it but you're so right like choosing that like not necessarily higher path because i don't mean it to be like it's an it's an and it's an emotionally mature way of living your life and never mind them it's always about you right

so if you're doing the work with me you're not not responding for them you're not responding for you because you have found a way to think about that that makes you feel calm and in turn you don't take any action this is what jacqueline's like taught me is calmness like i i was the most highly strong person now and even still instinctively I do think there's like it's probably a science I don't know it but like when you get a message instinctively you're like oh my god I'm being attacked but then I just sit with it for a second I'm like no I'm not I'm fine and it's like because my thoughts even when because actually the reason that we wanted to talk to you today is because like I got quote unquote trolled by some daily express readers on the year's day

I'm a flat slag guys so delighted but it's just learning it's It's just like, I don't have to take this personally. I don't, it's not, I can't stop them commenting on this. I can't stop them thinking these things. I can't control how they perceive me. I can just control how their words affect me. And I just don't want to be upset by somebody who's got the time to comment on a daily express.

What is it? Don't take criticism from somebody you wouldn't go to for advice. Like, I'm not going to a daily express commenter for advice. Oh, guys, so I look nice today. Like, no, I don't care. I also think you need to think about, again, from sort of a different space, I would say. One would really want to sit down and think about what must be going on for that person in their own life, for them to want to sit down and make a comment like that.

And that's all I, you know, I think is something that I think we should think about, you know, like I honestly think if you're a person that is happy with yourself, is living a life where you're comfortable, is less. ego, more soul-led, I'm not sure you're sitting down, making comments like that from your computer. I'm just not sure that you are. Can I ask advice, like, not because me and Alex have a very specific job and it's really unique in the like, you know, we're trolled by random basement dwellers that we shouldn't care about. But what happens when criticism or perceived criticism comes from somebody that you love, you know, it's like, I don't know about you, but so often I

hear from my followers that, like, their moms have said something that's made them feel unworthy or their sisters would put them down or whatever. Like, how do you think you approach this sort of thing when it's from somebody that you love rather than from some sad cretan in their mother's basement? It's all how you think about it. So nobody can criticize you unless you let them. Nobody can put you down unless you let them.

She's like, what? But they can't. Right? They can't do that to you. Nothing's happening to you. it's so true when I started doing the work and I do want Jacqueline to explain the model that she teaches to help get this way of thinking

but I would always give her my situations that are making me anxious and I'm like oh somebody's shouting at me or doing this to me and she's like no they're not they're speaking words are coming out their mouth they're not doing this to you stop taking it so personally words are coming out their mouth and I'm like oh yeah so I could walk in here today and you can say Jacqueline you know those jeans

they're not really you know really could you've not you know maybe different style and i've got two ways of thinking about that i'm either in a emotional childhood space of going can't believe she said that to me that's fucking rude how dare she what's she trying to say what about her jeep right and off you go yeah which those thoughts make you feel anxious upset you know not good enough unworthy and you're doing that to yourself by your thinking or i choose to think like that's really interesting that Alex wants to talk about my jeans today right and i feel really chill about that and also it's kind of weird that she wants to criticize my jeans right but i don't think it is a criticism i just think it's your opinion right and you don't have to like my jeans i'm cool with that

i'm like i'm like mesmerized but i'm transfixed by you this is like i just think it's you know it's not me it's about you know i've had a real journey through life right yeah and a lot of my work was about understanding that the power's all within me right and i got labeled a million things i got a comment on my instagram this morning someone's like you know but i've got this and i've got that and surely a mindset change because i've got all of these things won't work and i don't i don't believe that i really believe that we are not taught the power of our brain our brain is so fucking powerful when we learn to use it properly, but we don't get taught it.

No one teaches us that school. No one ever taught me at school, like, this is how you manage your minds and your feelings. Right. When I started with Jacqueline, like, because you're quite like tough. I'm very tough.

And I'm so fucking sensitive. Sometimes I'll be Jacqueline and I'll be like, oh, there's really bad things happening. And Jacqueline's like, well, I can just hear you're going to play the victim today. So I don't think this is very helpful.

And I'm like, what? And then I'll hang up And then I'm like Oh, she's right to be fair Like I have a choice I can sit and feel And Jackman's like

You can feel sad if you want You can sit and feel sad Or if you want to try something new We can try that And it's obviously much more complex Than like whatever But for me it was It has become a choice

Of like I just I'm gonna try I'm gonna try the positive thing I'm gonna try But it's not It's also not like I mean and I need to make this clear This isn't like

let's just think positively about everything in our lives right because i don't believe in that they never worked for me and for me again i'm talking personally like affirmations they never worked for me i could never stand in a mirror and go like i accept myself i accept myself i say like it just wasn't going to fucking happen i had to learn what the hell is going on in my head and and then when i understand that i'm doing this to myself and i get a choice i'm now in a position of like i've got some power around myself and some control around my head, which means that I'm human, right? I was going to ask then the distinction between letting yourself feel the emotions and allowing yourself to dwell on something that in turn produces negativity. Say, for example, your, you know,

someone's mom has made a comment that's made them feel less than or unworthy. Do they, are they should they allow themselves to feel the sadness? You know, how do you strike that balance? So first of all, if the mum has said something, the mother hasn't made the person feel unworthy. The person themselves have thought about what the mother said in a way that makes her or him feel unworthy, right? This would start there.

I love that reframe. No, no, I don't believe it. This is not my fault. I did this quite badly. It's really important. And second of all, I'm a really big believer of feeling your feelings, right? Like, I am so behind that. Like, you have to process, there is no, and by the way, listeners, there's no other way through, right?

You can drink it away, sex it away, gamble it away, you know, smoke it away, like, forget it. You need to fill your feelings, right? That's so important and it's really healthy. And you have to process those feelings, right? And when you're ready to not feel those feelings anymore, because there will come a time where you've had enough feeling sad or anxious or unhappy. or negative there will come a time when you're like sick and tired of being sick and tired in that space and that's when you're ready to do your work that's important i think because a lot of the time i'm like i should brush this off it's all about mindset i don't need to feel like this

anymore so snap out of it and i think that's what a lot of people don't understand is that great area that like little bit in between the transition phase i guess that is good point it's very necessary because i can't just snap myself out of feeling anxious I wish I could but you know or feeling sad about something that's happened so I think that's a really important note to let yourself feel everything you're feeling 100% but know that you're going to come to a point and to allow yourself to be ready at a point for you then to shift your mindset exactly and the more you do mindset work the less you have those negative feelings really that's where yeah that's where the that's where the work that we

do really you know comes into play so that's a very important space to be in is to do the work so that the things that used to affect you yeah don't affect you anymore to me that was priceless that was a priceless gift like you can't you can't have anything better my opinion one can't get anything better than that in life that no matter what's going on or what people are saying or what people are doing or the situations I'm in that I can stay calm about it and comfortable in that space no matter what to me was like that's all i want i just want peace of mind because to me personally i think that's really that's a form of success but we've all got a brain and we can all utilize it and learn how to do this work and it's just a matter of

whether we want to invest in ourselves like that or not you know mentally emotionally physically i just think it's so exciting like recognizing i don't know about you but i allow myself to go into like really powerless like I literally I'd like gather up all the power that I had and I'd just like put it in my hands and offer it around I'm like anyone want any I think I still do like guys guys take it and like I'm honestly I said this before to you I'm like I'm one of those people that seeks out negativity or like I seek out I needed to know what everybody had to say about me and like I wanted all the reviews and then I'd be like shoving my ear up against the door and then I'd hear something bad and then I'll be like oh god how could they and I'm like

hang on like I've literally I'm like guys change my power and it's just the most exciting thing this year for me or like last year was just realizing that it's like you can you can have it you can have you've got so much within you and I don't know about everyone else but I think like with COVID and with the pandemic and stuff like so much of the lines got blurred and I feel like loads of people with the work from home haven't been able to I don't know like I think a lot of us have like sacrificed our home life. and our happiness and like our funness and I think something that's been like what my big dream for like 2020 do is like recognizing that I want to have fun and I can have fun and it's okay to switch off and stuff but that's all like what you were saying earlier about the validation it's like recognizing

within yourself that you deserve good things and you don't always have to go out looking for like criticism and right do you know what I mean it's like there's some people are always going to have an opinion and it's what do you want to do with that you can just choose sometimes it's great. This is like mind blurring. It's like so smart. But this is, you know, this is why when

people talk about mental health, you know, and I'm really anti-labels, you know, like, people tried to label me when I was getting clean and well with a million different labels. You know, you're this, you're this, you're this, you're this, you're this, you're this and you're this. And you've got to be careful with that because you don't want to live up to a label, right? Like everyone has a form of a mental health issue because none of us have been taught how to handle our minds but there's there's levels and layers of all of this right and we can we can you know learn how to have a peaceful minds we can and so it's important to know and to put it out there for people that like we don't have to sit in pain right we don't we have to sit in that space amazing you know

M made a really good point just then about throughout the pandemic, boundaries really became blurred, right? Between home life, work life, like it was. And being with your families and like, just no individual space. Right. And I found that really, you know, like made me very, very anxious. And I think a lot of people online talk nowadays about setting boundaries and saying no. But I know that is something that a lot of people have a hard time doing. including us, can't say no to save my life.

Do you have advice on that for perennial people pleasers? Like, how can we say no without letting it make us feel bad? So the thing is, is if you say no, it's going to make, if you don't say no, it's going to make you feel bad. So that, again, you've got a choice, right? Which way do you want to set? You're completely right that the reason we don't say no is because we're people pleasing. except again when you do this work you understand you can't please people

because they've got their own thoughts and their own feelings which I can't control so whatever I do is whatever I'm going to do and you're going to decide you're going to decide to think about that whichever which way you're going to decide to think about that and I could be the nicest person in the world to you and you could still choose not to like me so that's really interesting to know right so saying no it's not about the other people when we learn to like ourselves and value ourselves and believe that we are worthy and key good enough, we learn to start to take care of ourselves more.

And we say, I'd love to do that, but I can't do that today. But I could do it for you on Friday. And what you learn when you're brave enough to do that work is the people that are not meant to be in your life will fall away. And again, that's another gift. and the people that are meant to be in your life they stay and most people would say that's fine Friday's great no problem and you think gosh why didn't I say no earlier right you can't make other people happy that took me so long to learn with Jack and it's like because I'd be like oh no but I want to

and I would then I'll make their lives easier and I'll make this and I'll make this and I'll just do everything like let me help you so unhealthy so unhealthy it's so tiring I'm unhealthy like in relationships right like you've got to go in to a relationship as a whole person you've got to go in to a relationship as a whole person you've got to you it's not someone else's job to make you happy it's your job to make you happy and whole and and feeling like you're good enough you know this this is why this work is so important and actually when you're the happiest of yourself you can then be what other people you know the people that have stayed around you're exactly what what they want you to or not what they want you to be but you're exactly right for them because you can all be happy together rather than

one of you giving like all of yourself right really yeah 100% right i imagine like the art of saying no is kind of like um like exposure therapy like the more you say it the better you feel about it right for the rest of the year no no no no but it's an important thing to learn to do you know definitely and I like that you I mean I see a lot of things online that I struggle with that say no is a complete answer or no is a complete sentence because I am like a really polite person like I never want to make anyone feel bad so I kind of struggle to you I think that's massively part of being a woman as well and it's like we're going to say that yeah we are we're so conditioned to be like oh can I make your life easier can I make you more comfortable how can I be palli How can I be perfect? How can I be well presented and easygoing because you don't want a difficult woman because they're hysterical and they're angry and they're overly emotional and they're a nightmare and blah blah blah blah blah blah. And people talk about them. And exactly.

Like, so we, I think women are much more likely to be people pleasers because we have been conditioned to create easy lives for everybody around us and we are taught to prioritize other people and you know what Jack's saying about like us not having the right tools. Like I think we've been given actively by a patriarchal society the wrong. wrong tools in order to make us play this part and I think you can still be so nice and say like I'm still shit at it by the way but I do know we've got work to do and we've got worked on it you can still say like thank you so much but on this occasion it's a note and that's not rude but because I think like because we're so conditioned to be so malleable that we feel like any obstruction of another person's will particularly a man's will it's like an act of defiance when actually are boundaries.

Boundaries cool. Love it. Boundaries are cool. Yeah. So we wanted to ask you about something, again, that's a huge problem that plagues women and has done for a long time. And that's comparison, which I'm sure you teach about a lot

and you talk about with your clients a lot. Not to turn this into a live therapy session. But also we're taking notes. Yeah. I'm literally kind of like, star this podcast and listen to every night. I feel like comparison is something I struggled with all my life. Like, I don't know, I'm one of five girls, I've got four sisters, but for some reason

I never compared myself to my sisters, but it's more with other people. And I used to, historically, that was about looks, and that was rooted in aesthetic and appearance. And I've been able to overcome that, I think, due to a shift in my values. but now I feel like that comparison has transferred on to other things like skills and you know capacities and abilities and like I feel like I envy people a lot for not what they've got but what they can do I always feel like I come out of that comparison inferior

so it's a roundabout way of me saying help I think also with comparison you say you know you always come out inferior but there will also be times when you're coming out above, above, right? So if you're comparing, you'll never always just, oh, I'm not as good as them. You'll also be going, yeah, I'm better than that, so that's okay, but I'm not as good as this, so that's okay. That's because you're scared of being arrogant

because you're a woman and you've been told to be humble. That's interesting that you don't. I don't notice the people that I would perceive to have, like, less capacity than me. Not I don't notice them, sorry, I don't make that comparison. That's really interesting. So what you're saying is you only ever do it where you're underneath and not good enough.

Right. Ah, right. Which says a lot. Yeah. You're so above everyone. Well, actually, none of us are above anybody and none of us are below anybody, right? I didn't take the compliment that it wasn't healthy. You know, comparison is the thief of joy.

You would have seen that thrown around Instagram too, and that's a thousand percent true. And there's two things I want to say about comparison. First of all, the only thing one should compare is if it's in a science lab. And it starts off in a, you know, a tube at the same time. in the same temperature at the same same same same same same same same same same if it starts off in that space knock yourself out go compare but how could you possibly compare yourself to me for example i have dark hair you have blonde hair i'm this age you're that age you live here i live there

you've had five sisters i've had one sister like how can we compare when we haven't even started in the same space it makes no sense second of all when it comes to things like envy and you look at people and think, oh my God, they've done this, they've done this. I would suggest that you turned it around and you looked at those people and thought, wow, they're showing me what I can do. Yeah. It's a really powerful way to look at it

because they're paving the way for something that you're looking at going, I want to do that too. So, and they're doing it, which is exciting. For me, it's like, it's not about their success. It's about their ability, like what they're able to take on and do because I know I've got, I've got a certain capacity

maybe my mental health I'm not sure but I have a certain amount of capacity and I can't go above that I just physically can't I can't cope capacity for what are we talking about exactly like things like just like handling life like I get like I see people like doing you know they cook every night or they do this

and do you know that no I guess I just see it on Instagram and that makes me feel like oh god like I could never do you don't know that though you're looking at us again you're doing what a lot of people are doing is they're looking at a picture and they're going oh my god her life looks amazing and she looks like she's got it all under control yeah but you're looking at a picture on instagram yeah and you're not looking at a burnt dinner and you're not looking at the time this person's having an argument with their other half going you fucking cook tonight right you're not looking at the real life right so i'm a

really big believer that me you go on to instagram you should have done a little bit of work in your head beforehand, which is I'm about to go on to a social media platform and the things I'm going to look at are not going to be real. And as long as I can do that for the next five minutes or 10 minutes or whatever it is, I'm going to tell myself I can do, I'm all good. Yeah, but even if you're doing it for seven hours, make sure you're going in, as with everything, with the right head space, you know? So you've got to be aware of what you're doing in your mind. So you can't be looking at pictures on Instagram going, oh my God, she's clicking every night. It's amazing. Because you don't know. And I'm a big one for facts and evidence. I love it. Like, give me the

evidence that you know, you know. Let me taste that food. Yeah. Basically, that you're making it all amazing in your head and it's happening every night. Like, give me the evidence and we can talk about it. But you don't have any. It's so true. We take everything at face value, don't we? Yeah. We totally do. I mean I know that what is online what is on social media isn't real and you're looking at one aspect right like you've got no idea is this is this person a nice person are they has their relationships with their family are they giving back to society do you know what I mean are they doing any charity work are they a kind person are they an honest person no you're looking at it going oh my god I'm not as good as her because she's cooking every night like it's insanity when

we think about it right what we do in our mind no don't don't don't feel stupid at all. I think it's a brilliant thing to have talked about on here because I think so many people do that. And we must never beat ourselves up, right? Like, that is not the way to grow. When we judge ourselves harshly, we really miss the lessons. But it is important to say, I do this and it doesn't feel good. And so how can I do this differently? Right. That's good. And it's about catching yourself, isn't it? With all these things, it's about catching. Like, hang on, I'm in this mindset. And I can get myself out of it, but it's catching that. Which is so important.

And that's the first thing I say to all my clients, usually step one is even being aware of what you're thinking. That takes a bit of time, right? And do you remember? Yeah, well, this is something that like, and we never talked about this at the time, but on the comparison thing, because I don't know, maybe just because I had my face all fucked up last year,

like I just wasn't in the mood to compare. I was like, I'm just going to get through my own shit. But then when I went back to the gym again after having, been ages like on my arse and I walked in and it was so intimidating I got that like full which so many people will be having now because it's January like full gym intimidation and I walked in it was like everybody's better than me and blah blah blah and I literally I had like my little Jacqueline on my shoulder and I was like no I'm not going to be intimidated by these people I'm going to be inspired by them and it's like learning that you literally can just like I said it on

Instagram a couple of days ago it's like I was like just take the cassette out like I'm just not going to listen to this one today, I'm just going to try something else. And again, I know there's more nuance and there's more, you know, there's so much, like, this is a lot of teaching, like, squished into one sentence. But it's just, like, it's so refreshing for me. And so I was intimidated. Then I looked round and I was like, now, you lot are inspiring as shit. Right. I'm going to be like, you love this. And going back to what Jacqueline said earlier is like, they don't care about you. No one cares. No one cares. Even if they notice you and go, oh, she doesn't know what you're doing. Like, and what, right? And I love what. It's more about them than it

does about me like why are you focusing on me for focus on your own shit and i love what m just said which is exactly right you just play a different play a different record like don't get up in the morning and put on the one that's scratchy and uncomfortable and negative and oar put on one that's like you know life i'm telling you life is short right like none of us are guaranteed anything i'm a really big believer of grabbing life right like i wasn't meant to be here many times over through my addictions and ending up where i ended up in my life and And I'm a real life lover, right? And it's, we're so lucky to be alive, right?

Like, really, we just don't know. You don't know what can happen in three minutes. You've got no idea. So trying to find the joy as much as you can. It's really important. And a lot of that comes down to gratitude. Gratitude is such an important part of life. To look at our lives and look at the things we can be grateful for.

Like, it's a much better use of our time to look at the things we can be grateful for than to be sitting on a social media platform going oh my god she's better than me like how do you want to look after your mind you know the stuff's important wow isn't it and we've like run out of time like oh no I know but it's okay because I feel like that was unreal and I feel very guilty that I've made it all about myself see how much work she's to do okay Alex so it's uh coming to my office. You mustn't feel guilty. That was awesome. You haven't even asked. I haven't even done your therapy. I feel bad. No, I feel so, I'm so happy that went so well. Honestly, there's so much to talk about. We can do, we can always chat again. You have to come back. There is so much more

that we need to get into, including your story as well. You know, we just don't have the time today, but you absolutely have to come back because, I mean, this has been like hugely eye-opening for me. I'm, like, mesmerized by you. I could just, like, listen to you all day. Well, the good news is on that, Jacqueline has a book that I... Yes. She didn't ask me to purchase this. I'm just going to do it.

Because, yeah, the most valuable thing that Jacqueline's, like, taught me is... It's like, you can only do what you can do with the tools that you have, right? And I had shit tools. I think loads of women have really bad tools. And this, for me, has felt like a really helpful... It's been like the Allen key of tools, right? It's just been, like, so helpful. So it's a really simple model.

If you've got a pen, or if you want to pause this and get... a pen and paper just and Jacqueline does explain it in her book but it's a really um really efficient way of like just getting control of your own thoughts so Jacqueline could you please explain the model and how people can do it themselves at home okay so the model is something that I use a lot and it's to do with how to get your thinking and check so um I've made it very simple it's not by the way I haven't done this this is not like something that you know I am the only one in the world that's teaching people how to use this model. It's probably like the grow model, the smart thing.

There's loads of stuff out there, but I particularly like this model, and I called it the generation model for the way that I teach it. And what it is, it's about a situation, which is a fact. It's, you know, what people think or say or do. Should we think of an example?

Yeah, we could think of an example. Okay, so Alex has slagged off my jeans when I walked in this morning. Okay, I love that we're using that example. Okay, so the situation there is, Alex spoke words. Okay. In that situation, that's not good or bad, weirdly enough.

It's only what we choose to think about it that makes it good or bad. So your thoughts are generated from that situation. So let's say the negative would the thought would be, I can't believe she said that to me, how rude. The thought would generate your feelings, which would be angry. Your feelings will generate your actions,

which would be like, I'm rude back to her. I'm like, well, that's a bit fucking rude, Alex. And the outcome is, the outcome is, I row with Alex. And that's what I call a model. So we have a situation which generates the thoughts, the feeling, the action, the outcome. So you feel angry, not because Alex spoke words. You feel angry because your thought about it,

which was how dare she do that, that's rude. That's what's creating your anger. So there's your power, right? but you could have chosen to think about it differently which the more you do this work it becomes natural and you would have chosen a different thought and a different thought could have been like you know nice of Alex to tell me that maybe I need to change my gene style maybe I'm stuck in you know 1988 or like okay maybe Alex is even better one of maybe Alex is having a bad day and when I think maybe Alex is having a bad day I feel calm

Because it's nothing to do with you. And when I feel calm, the actions are. I go, all right, darling, thanks. Yeah, I'll probably change my jeans tomorrow. And it won't affect me in any way. And the outcome is I don't argue with Alex. And so how we choose to think about a situation is what matters the most. The thoughts are the key because they generate our feelings, our actions and our outcome.

So often, sorry, so often the outcome for me would just be that, we'd run these models and I'd get to the end and it would be like, And I've ruined my own day. Again and again and again and again and again. Every time I'm like, oh, I've done it again. Yeah. That's why I'm not big on like, you know, when people talk about actions, I'm more interested in the thinking that's pushing you into the feeling to take the action than the action itself, right?

Like if you want to run a marathon, it's not necessarily about the action of the running. Because how do you want to run a marathon in a way? that feels good or in a way that feels heavy and pretty exhausting. So you've got to have your thoughts right about this marathon to feel excited, right, to take the action of really enjoying those runs. Or you have negative thoughts about this marathon. You know, I've said I do it, so I'm going to have to do it, and not feel so excited, maybe feel a bit low. And then the actions are going to be much harder. Going for that run in the rain is going to be much harder. That's why the thoughts are the place that we start.

I literally had a light bulb moment running my ultra in January, having done all of this with Jacqueline, and it was like, I got to like, whatever 16 miles or something, and I was like, oh, this is fucking awful. And I literally had this minute, and I was like, I can't control any of it. I can't control the hills. I can't control the weather.

I can't control my legs. I can't control shit. The only thing I can control is how I think about it. Absolutely. So laugh or smile. Oh, sorry, laugh or cry. And then, yeah, I laughed because it was just more fun than crying. Yeah, and it's a choice, right?

Again, it is a choice. She's unreal. And the model is in the book. The model's in the book. Excellent. I can't wait to read it. Enjoy, I put your coffee. Yay.

Thank you so, so much. Thank you so, so much for being here. Thanks for having me. So we'll see you next week. Yeah, I'll be here next week. Same time. That was amazing. I feel enlightened.

Honestly, I've never seen your eyes so wide in all my life. I couldn't just, I like, you. genuinely, I was like transfixed by her. She's extraordinary. And she's just so calm. She's just got this really calm and like logical, like this calm presence. And then there's like what she's saying is so logical

and simple yet so mind-blowing at the same time. Don't you feel like since she's gone? I don't know about you. I feel much more. I'm like, I feel like in the room. No, but now she's gone. I can feel our chaos creeping back in again.

I'm like, oh shit, come back. But I just, oh my God, We're so excited to do that again and again and again and again. I can't wait to do it again and do it with listener questions as well. Well, we did, we did hope, but then we got a bit sidetracked with her own shit. So sorry, sorry, sorry, but. That was very selfish of us. Well, yeah, it was.

Hands up. But we've already asked Jacqueline to come back and she's already said yes and we're going to do some more questions with her in the future and we will do a bumper episode just of listener questions. for her so that's exciting yeah isn't it watch this space she's coming back yeah so we're going to move on to our final segment of our podcast which I'm really excited about because it's basically going to be full of your embarrassing stories your unpopular opinions like we're going to be talking about stuff that people don't normally talk about we're going to be hopefully breaking down some taboos and stigma and in true Alex and M style it's going to be one big chaotic mix of stuff

yeah we want like stories I mean obviously this episode you guys are like when we asked for entries everyone's like why what are you gonna do with them but I think like our intention for this is it's like we said at the beginning of the last episode we don't want it to just be us

all the time and we love hearing from you guys on Instagram so actually just opening up like sharing your stories and like okay when something happens to am I the only one that this happens to I've just done this thing like email us whether it's embarrassing or enlightening or inspiring if you think it's something that you you wish you'd heard let us read it out because

I think like that's what we want is people to listen to this and be like oh thank fuck I'm not the only one yeah so we had loads of different entries but one I wanted to start off with which I thought was very interesting what is the most ridiculous bit of advice that you got from a magazine oh god I don't know I could tell you all sorts like I could I know how to burn my belly fat I know how to make men fall in love with me yeah I know how to make every single man want me Oh, I know what I know That if a man Scratches his left ear

Yeah I remember reading that if his lips go red It means he wants to kiss you Oh no I know, weird That one might be true, I don't actually know But I don't know I don't think like lipstick red

We'll just think like a flush Flush lips Like the Charlotte Tilbury hot red Yeah But I don't have a great memory And I couldn't remember So I googled like some ridiculous bits of advice from magazines and I just thought I'd read a few out. Okay, I'm ready.

Okay. I think it's going to make me a better, more desirable woman when I hear these. Honestly, I'm ready. Where's your notepad, right? I've got it. I'm ready. This is all from, this is called a hilariously outdated advice from 17 magazine. Okay.

Too much skin, too much leg, too much perfume, too much makeup. All of this labels you a girl to be whistled at rather than loved. Oh. Such good advice. Oh, okay. Okay. Sorry. Basically, women, you're too much. Another few bits.

Meal at a friend's house. Take a bit of everything. But imagine you are a frail 19th century beauty and eat like a bird. Wait. What? How ridiculous. Imagine you're a frail 19th century. So basically...

Basically, pretend you're Anne Thelyn. Right. Be polite and courteous and have good manners and take loads of food, but don't be fat. It would be a baby bird, did it say? Eat like a bird. Well, do you know how birds eat? Like a mother bird will eat the food

and then it will hack it up and then it will feed the chewed food under the baby. That's why I'm going to start doing it. Eat like a bird. I'm going to dress like Ambulin and then eat a load and then just get, I'm just choke it into a child's mouth. 17 magazine told me.

I know, honestly, no one's going to be fine. I'm like, oh Christ, aunt's here again. What happens when you return from your summer holiday, 10 pounds heavier? Let us hope that the condition is temporary. Meanwhile, you must dress to minimise. So, I mean, basically, they're all kind of in this space. You know what? I don't know, like, why we all grow up so unhappy in our bodies.

It's weird, isn't it? Yeah, it's so weird. It just came out of nowhere. Yeah, it's kind of hard to put together that. Never underestimate the importance of your girdle. I had to Google a girdle. It's basically like, you know, like spank. like an all-in-one, like it covers you.

You know what I've been doing? I've been underestimating the importance of my... You have. Where is it? Yeah, I've underestimated it. I think I've born a girdle like twice in my life and regretted it both times. Next up we have... I don't know where this falls in, really. Is it a embarrassing story?

It's embarrassing by proxy. My sister-in-law once shat herself during an exam and then blamed the girl next to her. And I can't say who. this is because they will never speak to me again, but this is someone I know. Like the girl who shut herself during an exam is someone I know. Have you ever shot yourself? I feel like I've put you on the spot. Do you want to want? No, I've never shot myself. I've never shot myself. But whenever I talk about it on Instagram, everyone's like, what? You've never shot yourself? I like that I talk about

it so much that this happens regularly. But no, I got close once. I weed myself once. When I was seven, I remember running to the loo. And I was, I don't know why, I was naked at home. And I ran from my bedroom to the bathroom and I was so desperate that I weed all the way there and I never told my mom. How old are you? That's been like seven or eight. 20? Yeah.

That's pretty sweet. I know, you're really sad. Oh, I've wet myself loads. Oh, yeah, I've pissed myself loads. I've got the most embarrassing story of my life in relation to, I don't know if I can tell it. Oh, God, no, I don't know if I'm ready. It's really bad.

Is it? Yeah, I only tell people when I'm quite drunk and after I've known them for many, many years. Oh, my God. I'll tell you. Go on. It's so bad. So I went to the loo one Well, I was at a festival

And I really needed a wee And I was really drunk And I came for ages at the Portaloo And I got into the Portaloo And I started weeing And then I realized I hadn't lifted the seat up So you're in late

What is you seeing on On the closed loo And I started weeing Oh my God I just went everywhere But yeah I was like It was pitch black.

Why would you not squat on a porterloo? I was so drunk. I normally chief squatter. Like, I'm so, that's how I got such a good bum a couple of years ago, just like festival squats. But I was so drunk and it was a really nice port-a-noose. So I was like, oh, it was until I've been in there. Isn't that the worst thing you've ever heard?

I can't believe I've just told you that. That reminds me of when I went to the Lou at a festival. I hate festivals. I'm so glad that I'm, like, too old to ever be invited to one ever again. I was wearing dungarees, and so I went to the loose. Obviously, like, think about dungarees. Like, you have to take the straps down, unhook the straps. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah, and I think I know where this is going. Yeah, and then one of the straps was just literally just, like, hanging out in the toilet the entire time, and I didn't realize until I looked down, I was like, and it was one of the, I just didn't know what to do. What did you do? What did you do? Do you leave it? Do you leave naked? I just I like hung it down

I obviously didn't put it back up I was like I'm not touching it and then like ran to my tent and changed and oh no I don't get festivals I don't get what people like them I like the idea of you in dungarees

though I feel like that's something that could make a good it was quite a look actually I should get that bad I love dungeries it's only a problem when you need a wig yeah yeah yeah

they need like a little hole or like what the babies do like baby grow stuff we had an email very exciting yeah and it's the most simple question and when I bring this

up to my mum. Yeah. She literally looks at me like I am an insane person. But when I talk about it to my sister, she goes, oh yeah. Is it just me?

Or does everybody get hair stuck in their butt crack after washing it in the shower and then find it kind of satisfying to remove? Was that an email that we got? Yeah, I love it. I get this during every

like unpopular opinion that I do. I'm so pleased. It's becoming mainstreaming for me. Very mainstream. I thought it was just me. I was like, do I just have like a deep bump crack? No, that's very normal. It is normal, isn't it?

Yeah, and you've got real long hair. Yeah. So it makes sense. Yeah, so you just, and then, yeah, my mom literally looks at me like I am wonky. Yeah, I mean, you get hair caught everywhere, don't you? It's like, if it falls all over your clothes, it's going to fall like down there. Yeah, I just think it's a good landing place. But yeah, and then, yeah, oh, and I know what she means about pulling it out.

You're like, what the fuck is that? But it's fine, you know what I mean? Yeah, you're so, you're, that's, it's so normal. Yeah, 100%. So normal. Yeah, it's normal to enjoy it. I have no shame. Yeah, fine.

Jesus. You pulled your hair out of your butt crack. Yeah, you go, girl. No shame. Put it in there, put it out, do what you want. Yeah. Yeah, good for you. Okay.

Someone said, I want to be anti-diet culture and, and I want to be skinny it. Make it make sense. Well, it makes perfect sense. 100%. It makes perfect sense. That is not just you. That's women everywhere. Yes. We want to be feminist and we want to be.

like oh fuck this and fuck this and fuck that and at the end of the day we're like but god damn it like i want to be in those jeans right right because we have been conditioned yes this is this stuff runs deep this is our entire lives yeah like think about how long you might have been practicing anti-diet culture for in comparison to how long you've been immersed in diet culture for and still are yeah you still are like we are tit deep in diet culture yeah not being funny like 100% like we're not quite eyebrows anymore, but, you know, like, we're still... At least hit deep. Hugely submerged.

Yeah, for sure. We're freezing. We're human and we pick up on things and we also have this like innate need to be liked and to fit in and to conform as well. So if society tells us that we have to look like this to be liked, desired, blah, blah, successful, happy, whatever, then deep down we're probably still going to want that. And I don't think there's any harm in admitting that. I think actually the best thing you can do is admit that

and understand why, like, don't beat yourself up for it or be like, it doesn't make sense. It makes perfect sense. Because I think then you also like hide one bit of yourself and you're like, oh God, and you feel like you can't give any space to how you're feeling because you're like, well, I don't want to say this because it doesn't align with this and this and this. And I think you have to be realistic about the fact that like,

we've grown up with like every food is like, oh, good and bad. Oh, I'm being naughty. And I'm going to, it's so much more than simply one day waking. up and denouncing it you have to like fully fucking unlearn everything it's exhausting and fat phobia as well runs so deep in our psyches because it's been drummed into us and it's been so casual and the hatred and fear of fat bodies is so normal and so prevalent so you know as well as as diet culture and the wanting to be thin there's also the fear of being fat and the two work perfectly together

to create a perfect storm of like fuck I need to be skinnier so don't beat yourself up don't be mad at yourself at all like it's totally normal you know and also like humans are like I feel like we do live

I feel like I talk about this too much but like we are we think in such binaries like I'm the worst for this as well and like if I am anti-diet culture I can't have any of these thoughts that are like, but no, we're like humans, we're multifaceted. We are fallible, like contradictions as well, right? And what works for one person?

We're walking hypocrites as are. And what works for one person isn't going to work for another person. And I mean, we've said it a million times and you do say it all that, you know, because it's just true. And actually having had Jacqueline, we will talk about this for Jacqueline. Yeah. But body image isn't about how you look. It's about how you think.

And the reason that it doesn't make sense is because it's impossible to just unpick all of this. It's like opening the fucking tech draw from like 1999. This is all those cable. You started filling in 1999. Now it's 2022 and there have been 15 iPhones in that time and you've got a cable for every single one of them. They're a mess. So it's going to take time to just unpick that.

And all you can do is keep trying to learn. Keep trying to work out. Why do you want to be thin? And if you genuinely believe that changing your appearance will help you or changing your weight or changing your lifestyle or whatever it is, crack on. Yeah. If you are doing it for the reasons, like Alex said, like you're rooted in this and fear and validation or whatever, then perhaps sit with that and work out where those thoughts are coming from

and if they're ones that you want to keep in that draw. And whether it's going to benefit you then to pursue this goal, if it's only for someone else's validation or to conform. But, you know, we need to get a psychologist into, like, at some point. I think this as well is, like, this disconnect between our rational self and our emotional, irrational self. And I think for our emotional self, like a lot of that is made up by beliefs,

like that we've formed because of our environment and what we've heard growing up and blah, blah, blah. And then our higher self knows that all this stuff about diet culture is, all this stuff about needing to be skinny and fat is bad and skinny is good. Like we know on a higher rational level that that's not right, but it takes work to and pick that with your emotional, self who you know relies more on on feelings and emotions and validation from other people basically

that lovely entry said make it make sense and we haven't but we tried and maybe in a future episode we will be able to do that yeah we'll go into it properly yeah i've got an embarrassing story for me this actually i know this wasn't a specific entry for this podcast i've gone into my own archives from last year when I asked you guys to send in, when I asked my followers to send in embarrassing stories because I think about this every single day and it makes me happy every single time I do. So this entry says, I saw an industrial bin rolling down the road. I ran after it and grabbed hold as it whipped me off my feet. I got dragged along the floor clinging on as the extremely short bin man who was dragging it to the long.

poked his head around and asked me what the fuck I was doing. I think about it every time I'm sad. She's trying to be so well. I think that is the best of her. I've ever heard in my life. Isn't it so every time I think I'm like, oh God. He's like, what the fuck are you doing? Oh my God, that's absolutely really.

Isn't it so good? Isn't it? Right, these ones Maybe I asked so much, okay. Went to the vet, queued for ages, receptionist asked where my dog was, I replied at home.

Oh, no. Took the bus to the car repair shop, had to get the bus back home and get the car. Went to our six-week postnatal checkup and left the baby at home. I just love them. It's so, oh, can I read you my, also, I'm just going back into my archives,

my most favorite ever. I think this was the first ever entry I had that I realized that I had to do this for the rest of my life and it was so sick she was waiting for the bus and the wing mirror smacked her in the head oh my god bus driver had to get out to readjust

the wing mirror did it hurt her well presumably it's a bus I mean but it's quite you could be like I got hit by a bus yeah she really did buss wing mirror one last one I guess just for lulls, shits and gigs.

I ran my ex-boyfriend over when I drove past him, okay? So, like, that in itself... I feel like, if you're in the court, I'd be like... Yeah, not embarrassing, but it's the way she ended it, right? I ran my ex-boyfriend over

when I drove past him, and panicked. I was like, of course you've put him in panic. I'm panicked. I'm panicked. Everybody's panicked. You've just ran someone over. I just love the way she just, like,

ended with, and I panicked. I'm like, yeah. Yes. Did she do it? Are you in jail, no? Yeah. No, Your Honor. I panicked.

Good God. So, yeah. You guys are nuts. I needed a follow-up story, really. I didn't get one, but there you go. Yeah. What's prison like? Oh my God.

Okay, so I am kind of interested in prisons. So we looked into, my friend and I, looked into becoming pen pals with a prisoner. Just to see. I don't know. You know, like, the letter is a dying art and that's a shame. So, you know, we thought

a bit of penmanship might be nice. Yeah, exactly. You know, we're all just on our phones these days. It might be nice. Get a quill, a pot from parchment. Anyway, it turns out, you know, if you want to send a letter, you want to become a pen pal person to somebody in prison. Got to say that five times, pen pal person. Anyway, if you want to do that, you have to pay. You have to pay. You have to pay your subscription.

It was like 50 quid. No way. So I was like, well, no. Did you do it? No, I'll just write. to Alex's mom. She loves a letter. Sorry, prisoner. Yeah, sorry. I want to know

who's making them. Is it the prisoners? That's what I was going to say. Maybe it's like admin costs for like the guards. Well, I guess someone's got to read them. I don't know. Yeah, someone's got to read it first, right? Vet it and like check there's nothing in there. We could do this for fun, for an expert. I'm not going to rule it out. I don't think I've got time, you know.

I feel like that's a really selfish thing to say. When you're considering that the person that you're writing to hasn't so much time. They've got nothing else to do. I just feel like maybe I could prioritize something else in my life. Have you written your thank you cards from Christmas? No. No, I think we should prioritize.

Me neither. Let's prioritize those. I don't write a thank you. A card. Do you? Oh, my God, what? No. I still need to write my wedding cards.

It's literally top of, thank you cards. It's at the top of my list. And every time I sit down, like, I've got to do it. Do you have to write thank you cards for everyone that comes to your wedding? So we thank you. Presents. Oh, yeah. You've got to write them afterwards.

Yeah. So I need to get on that. I mean, to people, like I, this is a, I mean, is it just me, do people still write letters? I don't know. I don't think so. Because Alex's mom writes loads and then Alex writes loads, but then to his old people, like, but then still, like, he loves it. Like, we get home from, like, your wedding. He's like, Mr. and Mrs. Light.

Like, thank you. Like, he loves a letter. Did he write, yeah, he loves a letter. He loves a letter. Oh, that's so, I know, I'm Alex. He felt so sweet. But then he doesn't shame me, but I feel shamed because I'm like, God, he's good. So then maybe I should be better, but I'm absolutely shit.

Like, I don't, where do you even buy a stamp? Do people still write, I want to know now? Do people still write letters? I had to write cards for, like, on your wedding day, you've got to write cards for like your rides and then your mum, your mother-in-law, your dad, da-da. Why? To say what? Can you not just text them?

Or just say it. You're winning a day anyway. In the end, I was like, I started writing and realized I just don't write anymore. And I was just getting carpal tunnel. I just like, I can't write. Right, so I had to type everything out, print it, and stick it in the card. My sister's like, this is pathetic. That is pathetic.

But sorry, you get what you're given, you know. That's hilarious. Like, future generations will be looking back and they'll be like, hmm, times are you Roman. The printstick's gone all yellow. That's so funny. I didn't know you had to do that. Yeah.

Yeah. I like the idea of a letter. I just think there's something like romantic. But then also, I have a person that I live with. What am I going to post him love letters? No. What I'm going to do instead is? post-love letters to the prisoners of Wormwood Scrubs

because I need someone to declare my love to via the lost art of writing. I've got my friend Hannah, one of my best friends. She's very, like, she's very romantic. She always has been. She, like, loves, like, poetry and literature, and she writes letters, like, all the time. She still does. Like, I remember when I split up my boyfriend

and she, like, wrote me this beautiful letter and, like, bought me this book. I can't remember what it was, which was so bad, but I do treasure it. I do treasure it. She, like, wrote in the front of it, like wrote this, like, wrote on the whole page. I know.

And she writes with, like, a fountain pen. Oh, God, I wish I could write with a fountain pen. And it's all, like, squiggly, and it looks beautiful. Yeah. Mine's just, like, I was like that. Like, I want to do that. It's my goddaughter's christening next week, and I want to write something really meaningful.

And I'm like, I won't. I'll just, I know it. I just text her. Well, that's it. Well, that's your baby? Yes. Okay, I don't text her then. Oh, okay.

Yeah. She might not have a phone yet. You know, give it until six months. But yeah, maybe we should, maybe we should. I'd tell you one thing before we do end this, because I did do a thing on my Instagram before Christmas of people who were like going to be alone and they could be in touch.

And loads of people said that they wanted to be pen pal. That was so nice. Wasn't it? But maybe we should get pen pals. That was really nice. No, it has to be prisoners. We could just. Yeah.

Just, I don't know. No, but I don't want a pen pal. I just do not have time for that. I don't think I. I would find that a real chore. Like, I'm so sorry. I can't. Okay.

I need to prioritize, like. going to write you a letter and I want. And I'll voice note you back. You're welcome. That's nice. I hate the post actually. I've talked about this before. I'm absolutely fucking terrified of it. Hate it. Really? Oh yeah. You don't open your letters, do you? No. I find that. Even, sometimes I get wedding invitations. Or like, you know, you can tell the difference between good post and bad post. I'm currently waiting for a speeding ticket, which is horrific. Every day I hear the postman. Did you get snapped? I assume so. There was a police fan there with the man holding a camera and I'm like, yeah. And Like flash.

Yeah, exactly. And he went, stop, you're under a rest and I went, fuck off. Yeah, no, I hate the post. Even the good ones. But I sometimes I have to save up enough good ones. So sometimes I'll get a really nice letter and I won't open it because I'll be saving. I'll make sure that I've got enough good ones. They'll take the sting out the bad ones because I don't want to just open a bad one.

I see a logic. Thank you. Just get Alex open them. Well, yes, that's the other thing that could be a nice solution. Yeah, that's the other thing that we do. So I can't actually, as it transpires, have an affair with the prisoner from World's Crops because I'd have to have Alex open the letters. Shit.

That's that dream dashed. There's something to be said for a Snapchat affair, I think, probably there. Well, we've already gone over. I mean, it's no surprise. I promise Daisy that we're going to stick to a strict time and we haven't. So we should probably wrap this. I'll probably wrap this up. I've really enjoyed this.

Oh, me too. And I feel like it's nice because we've kind of like settled in a little bit. Like at first we were just finding our feet and finding our way and like working out our own dynamic and I feel like we're much more relaxed. Look at how we're sitting. We're so chill. I've got so chill. I've got my feet up. Yeah, we're relaxed. We've both got our Dot Martins on.

Yeah. I'm trying to be young. You're really, honestly, you look really cool. Thanks. I'm really proud. I want that dress. I might take an erode day. Actually, Alex and Jacqueline took a lift. selfie on the way up without me. And they have the audacity to send it to me. I was like, I took a lonely lift selfie.

Thank you very much. Piss off. Yeah, exactly. Fine, mind you left together. See if I care. Going forward, we would absolutely love to hear from you. Of course, I mean, we have got some incredible guests coming up over the next few weeks.

We are in, like, what the fuck is happening? So, I'm going to be a fucking mess. Like, I'm going to be fan girl. Like, I already know it. I'm nervous. We're going to have to, like, chill ourselves out, I think. I know. I know. Honestly, I'm not, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm sweating. But that's okay.

So for our, is it just me section, our final section, we would love to hear from you because we know you've got loads to tell us, like loads to discuss, send anything in you want, your unpopular opinion, your embarrassing story, things you think that we need to talk about, your is it just me thing? And you can send everything to an email address, which is should I delete that pod at Gmail? we can't wait to hear from you this is so surreal we've got an email that was it for me that was the moment was it this is this is professional yeah yeah insane if you've got to the end you're amazing thank you we would love if you don't mind a five star review anything else and not to lead you into like lead you into anything but please don't give us anything less if you think we deserve anything less just don't rate yeah just sit with that we love you so much Yeah, the therapy that we had today was good, but it wasn't perfect.

It wasn't enough. So five stars and above. Thank you very much. And we can't take any kind of rejection. No, not yet. So please be kind. No, but yeah, so anything like rating, review would be amazing. And obviously, subscribe if you haven't already, so that we pop into your feed every week.

And we'll see you. See you next week. See you next week. Bye. We are committed. On October 17th I'm an angel. See the wings? Don't miss the new comedy Good Fortune starring Seth Rogen,

Aziz Ansari, and Keanu Reeves. Critics rave. It's having sent. You have a budget, guardian angel? Kind of. You were very unhelpful. Good fortune. Directed by Aziz Ansari.