Should I Delete That? - Britain’s Oldest Dominatrix: “It’s far more than whips and chains…”

Episode Date: June 29, 2025

Today, we're stepping into the world of BDSM...We’re joined by the brilliant Sherry Lever, who is known professionally as Mistress Sofia. She is a 74-year-old grandmother who just so happens to be Britain’s oldest professional dominatrix.From the outside, the world of BDSM might seem intimidating… and we certainly had a lot to learn. But Sherry breaks down the myths for us, highlighting the importance of communication, consent and boundaries within her work, to reveal the more emotional side of being a dominatrix.She even introduced us to a very different kind of CBT (and it’s not the type your therapist offers...)As self-confessed members of the vanilla population, we came away from this conversation with our eyes opened and our assumptions challenged - we hope you find it as fascinating as we did!Follow @sherry_lever_ on Instagram You can read more about Sherry’s work at www.mistress-sofia.co.uk Sherry’s book From “The Mrs” to Dominatrix - is available now digitally and as an audiobookIf you'd like to get in touch you can email us on [e-mail]  JOIN US FOR OUR BIGGEST LIVE SHOW EVER! We’re heading to Edinburgh for our biggest live show ever. We’ll be taking over the iconic Usher Hall for one night only on 3rd September. Head to SIDTLive.com for more information and to purchase tickets.Follow us on Instagram:@shouldideletethat@em_clarkson@alexlight_ldnShould I Delete That is produced by Faye LawrenceStudio Manager: Dex RoyVideo Editor: Celia GomezSocial Media Manager: Sarah EnglishMusic: Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Sherry, and I'm a 74-year-old dominatrix. Hello, and welcome back to Should I Delete That? Today on the podcast, we are speaking to Sherry Lever, who is known professionally as Mistress Sophia. At 74 years old, she is said to be Britain's oldest dominatrix. Sherry told us how she became a dominatrix, the importance of boundaries and consent in her work, how being a dominatrix is much more than wits and chains, and how. she often takes on the role of therapist for her subs. She even introduced us to a very different kind of CBT and it's not the type your therapist usually offers. As self-confessed members of

the vanilla population, we came away from this conversation with our eyes wide open and our assumptions challenged. We hope you find it as fascinating as we did. Here's Sherry. We are so excited that you've come to talk to us. Thank you so much. I guess I need to start at the beginning and ask how you got into this line of work. After my third marriage breakup, and that's when I decided it wasn't for me, I was left financially embarrassed, let's say. And I knew I had to make more money. I was working part-time. And I didn't know what else to do. And I was flicking through the channels one night, you know, trying to find something to watch. I came across this documentary about phone chat girls. Some would say phone

sex girls. I mean, you know, anyway, it made me laugh. And I thought, I could do that. I'm sure I could do that. So I found one of the girls that was in the program. I found her on social media. messaged her, asked for a bit of help and we've been friends ever since really. Also, I obviously asked, you know, spoke to my children because if they objected, then it wouldn't have gone any further. But they didn't. They've always been really supportive, got in touch with a company, started doing that and for peanuts on that ad. And I used to work upstairs and come down and say to my daughter what had gone on. Sometimes I'd be laughing, most of the time I was laughing. But I did notice that nearly every call, they wanted some sort of domination. And I

mentioned this to my daughter. She's always been a driving force for me. And she just said, Mum, you're doing it for peanuts. Why don't you do it for real? And that's what I did. So I started. I also did a blog because she also said, you should be writing this down. It's so funny. So I did. I started a blog, then my book, then another book. Yeah. So that's how it started. Like how did you start? Like where do you go to start doing that? How did I start? I started very badly. I had no idea what I was doing. Yeah, how do you learn as well? Well, that's just it, you see. There was nowhere. So I just plodded along, making mistakes. Right. Hence, that's why I do workshops now and teach, because it is very important. I mean, I think it was the second one I did, the second session. He bought me a present and it was a cane and asked me to cane him. And I used to session in my lounge when my daughter was at work. She had been to beauty therapy college and she had one of these put up bed things.

It was a bit rickety, but it did for the time being. I put a few chains on it and that's how I started. So my second attempt at it, this guy came in, gave me this cane. asked me to cane him. Well, I was terrified. So I walked about whipping this cane in the air, hoping that would appease him and that would do. And then he said, oh, you're going to cane me, mistress. So I had to go on with it. So I made him, first of all, he took all his clothes off. That was a shock. Since then, I take it all in my stride because, you know, you've seen one, you've seen them all. Anyway, so he bent over the bench.

And I started not knowing what I was doing. You know, you see caning at school years ago. It looks so simple. Well, it's really not. But anyway, he wanted me to cane everywhere. And I did. I caned his back everywhere that you shouldn't around the kidney area, the coccyx. You know, I mean, poor bugger.

But luckily, it was, it was. fine, but I've never done that since, but he was ecstatic. But how I got through it, to start with, when I started, I started imagining he was my third husband. And joy upon joy, it was, and then I realized that I wasn't even thinking about my ex-husband, I was enjoying it. And that's where I found that I have this sedent. stroke, which has just grown and grown.

And now it's really at a peak. I just love giving pain. Really? Oh, God, yeah. There's nothing more exhilarating. Really? And you didn't know about that before this? No, I didn't because I didn't even know what a dominatrix was.

I just, you know, so yeah, I love that. I'm very good at what I do. and I'm very careful. And also, because of my experience, I know where to stop. I offer safe words and a lot will take a safe word, but my regulars don't because they trust me. And I know, well, I don't think he's going to take much more. I'll stop now. So, yeah, so that was my beginnings.

So interesting. God. I mean, I guess you wouldn't, I guess this job would be really difficult if you didn't enjoy inflicting pain, right? Not so much of you didn't enjoy inflicting pain because there are other elements to it like I've trained one who is absolutely fantastic with cissies and adult babies and adult babies, that's not really my forte because they want nurturing and I'm certainly not a nurturer.

Can you explain to us what cissies and adult babies are? Yeah, of course, cissies are males who like to dress as females, but in a kind of outrageous way. And so a big part of being a cissy is being humiliated. And also doing my housework. Okay. So, yeah, I get them all ready. They get on with it doing my housework and then whatever else. some like to be spanked and are like caning there are not many cissies that are massacists they are

usually just like to prance about and you know but i i enjoy that i love that but um i draw the line at the the adult babies i still have one or two that i can't pass on because they like to come to me um but they they fit in with what i do so i don't as a I said, I don't nurture or cuddle or anything like that. No, no, I don't do any of that. So the adult babies, how does it, at what point do they stop being, do they do all the things that babies do? Like, is it just then they need the nurture from the dominatrix or do they need to, like, have their nappies changed? Yes, they are into nappies. Now, the Dom that I trained, And she does all of that. Enemers, nappies, changing them. I don't. So if I have an adult baby,

the ones that I do have, they know they can wear their nappy. If they wet it, God forbid they do anything else, but if they wet it, they go home in it because I won't change it. They're potty training them. Yeah, more or less, except I don't have. a potty for them to sit on. So, yeah. I mean, I did have one once that he, I made him leave in his nappy and he was quite happy to leave. And then he phoned me and said, mistress, I'm in a field and I've done a poo in my nappy. A bit too much information for me, really. but so I don't care if what where the field was as long as it wasn't anywhere near me or in my

playroom. Is he allowed to phone you though? Because that's after your, I don't know, do you call it a session? Session. Some do phone and if I'm not busy I will answer but I prefer not to be phone because if I'm in a session I won't answer. So I will say where I advertise, text in the first instance or email me. don't phone because sometimes they're just having a good old play while they're on the phone

and you know you learn you kind of learn what they're doing if the breathing gets heavy it's good night Vienna because you know yeah yeah you haven't got time for that no absolutely no no uh i have a million questions um at the risk of jumping ahead i want to ask you with all of do you call them subs subs or slaves or sissies I don't like clients

always kind of infers that I'm doing more than I should be doing even though you're a client if you go to have your hair done but somehow having clients coming to a dom

it just doesn't sit well with me I don't think for a minute other doms don't call them clients and that's absolutely fine it's just a little thing I've got. Okay, so we could say subs. Yeah, that's fine. For your subs, and I guess from everything you've seen in your experience,

is it always sexual? Is the driver behind him listing your services? Is that always sexual? No, it's not. That's not to say that some aspects are, although, you know, That doesn't mean anything. Okay, they might be aroused, but that's it. Because a male is led by his genitalia.

So everything they do, there is always a sexual connotation to it. Apart from if they're working or things like that, even then they've got to stop for 30 seconds to think about what's downstairs. That's the difference. That's why we are so superior because we don't do that. So to some, yes, it is, a lot are wearing chastity. So if they do get arouser, then that's hard luck because it's painful. Is that how it works for a man?

I didn't know about chastity works for, so it stops them getting erections? Well, it won't stop them totally, but it's painful when they do. Because obviously you imagine you've got a chastity, which is a steel cage or plastic or whatever. and you start swelling, you can imagine how that that's going to feel. Yeah, it does sound nice. But is that part, do you think that's part of the, is that part of it that it's like it's a forbidden thing? Yeah, I think so.

I've got lifestyles. I've got two lifestyles. I did have three. Two have been in chastity for what, four, over four years. What's a lifestyle? Sorry. Oh, a lifestyle means that. that they're at my beck and call.

Now, the difference is a lifestyle, they don't pay me. They'll buy me gifts or take me out for a meal or whatever. But they come and do whatever I want. So if I want some cleaning done or the garden sorted, they'll come and do it. And the difference is they don't have a say in it. So they can't say to me, I wish or I want, because if they do, they're out the door. Because if they're serving me and they're not paying their tribute, that means they're solely there for my benefit.

Whereas with a session, you have to take into account what their kinks are. So I will always say when somebody wants to book, tell me what your kinks or your fetishes are. and then I'll work on that. So it's a bit kind of like topping from the bottom because they're telling me what they like, what they want. But I don't think that even crosses their mind. But there's no point my saying to everybody, yes, book your session, get here, and me doing what I want.

Because number one, it's got to be consensual. And secondly, if somebody comes in and I beat the crap out of them, and they just came to worship my feet. They won't come back, will they? You know, it'll be, don't go there, mate. Look what she did to me. So it's, there's a fine line with everything you do. Can you explain to the listeners what your boundaries are,

what you will do, what you won't do? Because I don't know if that varies from dominatrix to dominatrix, but I think perhaps it's not always clear from the outside what those boundaries are, so it would be great if you could explain those. Um, okay, there are boundaries. And to be honest, every, every dom's boundaries are different. Okay. So my, my boundaries start with no sex. They do not touch me. I don't do body worship. I, I, I allow foot worship. That's it. Um, I don't do scat play because in my opinion, it's extremely dangerous. What's that, sorry? It's poo. Got it. Okay, clear enough.

It's quite a big thing, but I do, I do do little posts occasionally just putting out a warning because, you know, you can get E. coli. Oh, well, there's just so many bacterias that you can get from it. It's just not safe. I don't do water sports from source, so I do allow them to drink my nectar from a dog bowl or use a funnel. That's quite a big thing. I have got one slave that actually buys a bottle of my nectar to have with his evening meal instead of wine. And he does that without you?

Yeah, he just buys it. Takes it home and puts it in his fridge and has it every night until it's gone with his dinner. Yeah. And I could, I can almost hear everybody going, what? But, you know, I never, I never, I never. force anybody to do that. If they ask, then that's fine.

But I would never make anybody. No, of course. It feels like people bring to you their desires and you tailor for them within your boundaries, what you're comfortable to give them. Absolutely, yeah. I mean, if I do that, if my daughter's in the room, she might be filming, as soon as if I'm going to do that,

I can hear, bleh, got to go. So, you know, it's not every Dom's cup of tea either, but it's a two-way thing, so I don't, I don't touch them sexually. But I do CBT. So obviously, that involves their genitalia. Sorry, can you tell us what CBT is, please? Cock and ball torture, as opposed to, you know, therapy. I did think that. I was like, well, that's the best.

Although a lot do consider me their therapist. I'm not surprised. tell me so much they've never told anybody else. But yeah, so it's involved. What is it involved with that? Well, electrics. I've got a easter, which is... A taser, that sounds too much.

No, it's, I do have a, I've got a wand thing. It's a cattle prod that I do prod a bit. But no, my proper electrics, I've got all fitments. I do all sorts of different things. I've got an electric glove. Wow. For the... A kind of wand thing.

Yeah, you put the... glove on then oh god and grab it and Jesus that sounds so painful but they like it well not at the time

I mean you know they do I don't I mean if they haven't got a safe word I do say because if I give safe words if they use a safe word then the sessions

at the end but I love to hear I beg you mistress so I do tell them that now you'd be amazed how many forget and blurt out the safe word because they're in that sort of panic state

instead of saying, I beg you mistress. So I do kind of say, don't forget, I beg you mistress. Because they'd be disappointed at the session. Yeah, because then I will stop a bit and then do something else or whatever, you know. So I beg your mistress is like a yellow card? Yeah, kind of. Yeah.

It's like a warning. But are you constantly monitoring them to see, like, as well? Yeah. How far it's going. Yeah. Can I ask you, like, just something that's probably way too intimate a question? With, like, CBT, would the aim for them be ejaculation, or is that not? No.

But does it happen? Sometimes if I'm doing sounding, it does, but I do punish them because it's absolutely not allowed. Okay. Sorry. I'm sorry to keep asking what sounding. Well, you've got a sounding rod. Okay. So do I need to say any more?

Yes, we are so rubbish. You've got that there. It's like digging for oil, you know. Oh, fine, and then that makes sometimes. Okay, but then they get in trouble. It's only happened in all the years. It's only happened once. Oh, really?

Yeah. I think that's going to probably be a surprise to, people because I think when when you hear you know anything in this sort of realm your mind goes to like well that's the gratification like that's that's what people are seeking out right like that kind of like finality it's quite interesting that that's not actually no the sort of end game yeah yeah but there are um there are some doms that will do um queening and that sort of thing They'll allow that. I don't.

Sorry, we're sorry. We need a thoris. But I don't, I just don't. That's just like almost verging on being an escort because it's, you're taking money and you're letting them do sexual things to you. So that doesn't sit well with me at all. We are delighted to announce our biggest live show ever. For one night only, we are taking over the iconic Edinburgh Usher Hall on the 3rd of September to bring you an unforgettable night of completely unfiltered chat, big laughs, and meaningful,

connection and conversation. Our favourite part of the live shows is always that you get to meet each other and we are so proud of the community that we've fostered here. And this night isn't just about coming to see us. It is about meeting each other and forging new friendships. Whether you're in Scotland already or you fancy a trip to beautiful Edinburgh, this is our biggest live show ever and we would love to see you there. Check the link in the show notes or in our bios to buy tickets and secure your place in the pre-show meetup, meaning you can come

alone and meet other like-minded should I delete that fans. Brought to you by Simprove, the UK's number one gut supplement. Do you think there is a space where people in your line of work and where sometimes the subs are taken advantage of? I do think that. I do think that. that happens, yeah, I do. That's a shame. And I do, you know, there are trolls that will, if I've done a documentary or whatever, you'll get quite a few that will be saying things like these people have got mental issues, they're vulnerable.

Well, they're not. But when they're so submissive, you have to bear that in. mind that that's why I say everything has to be consensual. You're not just in charge of their bodies. You are in charge of their minds when they're with you and you and our minds are a fragile thing. So you have to treat it as such. You have to talk to each one and and a lot have got issues from their childhood that they're bringing forward or from their first relationship. They've had traumatic experiences. You have to coax out of them and take it on board and then run with it as you feel is fit for them. So not necessarily, I mean, if somebody's got a kink,

but it's from their childhood, and it's not an acceptable kink because they've gone through a lot. Then it's my job to help them accept what happened and to move on and to not dwell on it and want to punish themselves by reliving it with somebody like me because, and they want to relive it because there's guilt there. and so they want they want to carry on because for some reason reliving it is the only way they can accept what happened and so by the time I finish with them I mean it's not usually one session it's usually more then they start to be able to move on and and then they can accept who they are and not who they were that, you know, because quite often they've, they haven't got a partner.

They've never had a partner because they've never been able to live with what happened to them. They don't go and talk about it with anybody, but for some reason they come to somebody like me and they trust me because they, I'm not going to tell anybody. I mean, I'm talking about that with you, but I'm not saying, oh, Joe blogs, you know, I would never divulge anything that anybody talked to me about. That's a big responsibility for you. Huge, yeah. Yeah. And I've got no training in any sort of therapy, but I, as far as they're concerned, and so many have said it,

that I'm their therapist now. They trust me. That's what I base it on. I don't base it on anything but what they're getting out of it. You know, they're what they need. And then on the other side, I do judicials, which is another, these are real-time punishments. So there is no safe word.

the canes involved judicial well speaks for itself I first of all have to know that they they deserve the judicial so we have a talk and they will tell me

what they've done why they're seeing me so alcoholics I've got just taking on my third but the other two are doing really well gamblers, even someone that couldn't stop stealing cars, you know, air smokers. And if they break whatever rules they've set for themselves, you give them a judicial, is that right? So if it was like a gambling addict?

They come to me, the first session, we'll have a talk and then they will have a judicial caning. And then I expect them to start with. They have to text me every day. I say it's smoking. I haven't had a cigarette. I don't think I've had anybody that's failed. Do you give them prizes if they do, if they don't steal cars or? No, the prize is that they've healed themselves. And they don't get a judicial? Well, it gets to a stage where I don't always give judicials. They'll come to me and they're doing so well. they don't need a judicial

but they still need to visit and what would a visit like that look like? What would it look like? They come in I sit in a chair they sit in a chair opposite me and we talk and they don't want to disappoint me

and that's a big part of it they don't want to disappoint me and also they're frightened of me to a certain extent because I'm, you know, there are times where I will speak softly to them if it's needed, but they also know that I am extremely strict and dominant. And then it progresses to, they'll eventually, they'll text me once a week to tell me how they're doing. I mean, one of my alcoholics is now, he lives in a flat, his marriage had broken down, he didn't see his children.

Now he has his children every weekend. There's another, gambled so badly, he was living in this clapped out little caravan. And now he's not gambling, again, hoping to get back with his family. So, you know, it's, it works. That's so nice that you can, like, it's such an unusual path that they take, but it's so nice that you can be there for people who are in need of someone in their corner. I think people have got the wrong impression of a dominatrix. For sure.

You know, because unfortunately, because we're in a grey area, we are classed as sex workers and to the vanilla population sex workers have sex and that's as far as they see it and there's just so many more strings to our bow

not including sex because obviously I've explained that so yeah it's I love what I do I like I actually like the fact that I help people and I know people will say

and they have done, that I'm dreadful, that I'm using these people, that couldn't be further from the truth, it really couldn't. They need me as much as I need them, because I love what I do. And I hope to carry on doing it till I'm 80, because what would I do? I vegetate, can't knit anymore because I can't see properly. I mean, what would I do? Yeah, it's as good a thing as any. Yeah.

There you go. Speaking of age, is there a typical age for your subs? Or do you find that it just sort of, it varies? My oldest is now 85. Oh, wow. And always wears leather underpants. Oh, really? Okay.

I wouldn't see anybody under 21. Okay. But there's no there's no average age, the same as there's no average person as to what they do in their lives. You know, it can be from Desmond to high court judge to teachers, doctors, you know, everyone has some sort of need, fetish. kink you talked before about how sometimes you'd go out for dinner with them is it like because obviously you work from your house a lot of the time how much of your life does this feel is it is it sort of for you like sort of work and you can like leave work behind or is it like your life completely now in that like your friends know what you do presumably or you know obviously your kids no and is that just

part of like if you're out for dinner and you bump into someone you know when you're with one of yourselves is that just like how do you introduce them is it right i wouldn't introduce them no if i see anybody that i know um i'll just say hi or anything but there's there's no reason for me to introduce them because i'm not that close to anybody that i would say i mean and my friends any friends i've got their dorms anyway so um why would i introduce a slave to another to a dorm like He was, you know. Okay. I guess, yeah, they wouldn't expect to be introduced then if that's the role that they're playing with you.

Yeah. But I would rather go out with a sub or a slave than because I don't date. Yeah. Because I can't be bothered with that now. And I don't have to worry if I'm going out with a sub because he knows his place. He knows what I am to him. There's no, get your hands off me at the end of the night or no, I won't give you a kiss. You know, because we've gone.

out. They're good company. It doesn't mean to say that we're out and I've got to be right, slave, pick up your knife and fork, now eat this, do that. I don't do that, no. I'm just me. Do they pay? I just well. Of course. Yeah. Did they order for themselves? Do you decide? Or is it just like a normal dinner when you're out? It depends. If one is very submissive, then I know that that's what they want me. to do, so I will. Okay. Others, I don't.

God, I can barely choose what I want for myself. I would be very overwhelmed having to choose for someone else. You talked about if they have a kink that is not appropriate and not acceptable. Is there, are you, I mean, I guess there's no, like, regulating body for, like, what you do, is there? I don't know. So are you obliged to report things if someone say. admit something to you or about the car thief

you mean like if someone told you that he's stolen a car do you feel like to test no I wouldn't of course not are you thinking kind of like are you thinking more like perverse and I no I wouldn't I've never

actually apart from once I've never been in that position I had somebody that came to me once and he he wanted to go over my knee and be spanked So I booked him in And when he came in

He must have been about 30 stone And there's no way I was going to have him over my knee I'd never walk again So I said Look I can't possibly spank you over my knee So he said oh we could watch a video So I said okay

He said just of caning I said yeah I'm happy to do that And he had his laptop with him, which he got out, sat down, and he got this clip-up. And it was girls being caned, which I'm not happy about, but they weren't naked. They were in uniforms and things. And then he said, how old do you think they are? I said, oh, 20, 21.

He said, no, go on, how old do you think they are? And they looked about in their early 20s. He said, I'd say they were, what, 13, 14? And I just said, you need to leave. Yeah. You need to leave. And that was the end of that. But it just was, I didn't like it.

I found it very disturbing. Is there an element for you when they're in your house, when something like that happens where it is uncomfortable and you just, it just leaves you feeling unsafe or, uncomfortable? Well, I'm in my playroom, which is on the side of my house. I've never been intimidated by anybody because the thing is they, they're very submissive, so they're usually nervous of me. So I've never been in a situation where I felt intimidated apart from that. And it wasn't, I didn't feel intimidated against me. I just felt, I just wanted to get him out,

you know um so yeah no i don't i don't ever get when i first started um my daughter would say don't book anybody unless we're home somebody's home um so for the first couple of months i did and then i just thought oh that's ridiculous and so i just do it now your daughter sounds really cool yeah yeah she is yeah that's really nice Okay, so yeah, so you don't really have people like testing or pushing your boundaries. No, no. I do online or or I get phone calls where I have to put the phone down on them, stuff like that. Yeah.

But no, not in my playroom. What is a playroom? Because when I think of a playroom, I'm like, toy box. Yeah. Well, actually, it's a dungeon. Okay. But that's far too pretentious for me to call it a dungeon because it's my conservatory. It's just got black drapes up and I've turned it into a playroom.

But I just didn't feel I could call it a dungeon. So, yeah, and a session is play. So I just call it a playroom. And is it kitted out? Are you using it like, it's your normal house and your normal furniture or have you gone out and bought like specific playroom items? When I first started, I had two leather sofas in there because that's what was in there before. But as I wanted more stuff, I got one of my slaves to take them down to the tip and I just stripped the room out. So now I've got, I've got a bench, I've got a cage, I've got whipping bench.

I've got a 1960s original school desk for my school part. So up that end is the schoolroom thing. because a lot that come for caning, they're older and they were caned at school. So they want the whole thing. So I've got a mortar and gown and I'm the headmistress and we do a proper scenario. And so that's all we're done there. And then at this end is the BDSM end. So that's where I wear leather and PVC and carry on up there doing that.

Where'd you get your outfits? Sheen. But a lot's bought for me. Oh, that's nice. Boots and shoes. I've got amazing boots and shoes. I have them out on show because they're so lovely. But I can't walk in some of them.

I've got my neck. I'd be down like a sack of shit. Do many of your subs have partners? And if so, do the partners know that they book sessions with you. Yes, a lot have got partners and a lot, they don't tell their partners and that's their business, but I don't feel guilty because I don't feel that it's sex. But if I had a partner, would I like him to go to a dorm? Probably not. But all I can say, I mean, I have got, three wives that send their husbands to me.

One actually, her and her husband played for years and now she's got MS and she's not very well. But she wanted him to still be able to enjoy. So she said she would find a dom and then he could session and she chose me. So now when he comes, I film the session and then I send it to her and then they watch it together. So they've still got the enjoyment of, you know, another thing that I think made me think, well, you know, this isn't such a bad thing for partnerships.

I had a sub that he'd been coming to me for about four years. And then he couldn't come through COVID. And I got, I mean, he told me a lot they'd been married for 30 years. He'd suffered with huge bouts of depression. They'd nearly split up because of it. Anyway, during COVID, I got an email, and it was from his wife. And she'd been sorting out some paperwork. And she came across a little book, and it was, he'd written about all his sessions.

It was like a little, well, notebook, whatever. Yeah, yeah. And so she, she messaged me and she said, I found it and it's answered such a lot of questions because she said when he was younger, we had some terrible times with his depression and everything. And for the last four years, it's like it's been a new, really, relationship for us. We've never been so happy. He no longer takes antidepressants. And now I see why because, you know, and then she went on to say, and I felt you would like to know that I lost him to COVID. So it was kind of really bittersweet because, but I would never have found that out. I would always be wondering, why didn't he come back? You know, because we really enjoyed his sessions. That is so lovely that she called you Yeah

But that is a thing as well Because sometimes I would never approach one of my subs Unless they approach me first You know I would never message them I wait for them to approach me Unless I know they're single

And it's you know So if they suddenly stop getting in touch with me I'd have to assume What's happened have they had an accident? Have they died? Maybe they found another mistress. I don't know, but do you miss them? I was very upset finding out that he died. In fact, I've had a lifestyle as well that he took me to Spain for a week. We had a wonderful, wonderful, he spent the whole week naked in the flat, but cooked beautiful meals for me, took me out to dinner. We had a lovely

time. He had a partner, but they didn't really get on. And then he, I can't go into too much deal with detail, but he went abroad for work. And he'd been walking a bit strangely. And then Then he fell when he was away and he had to come home. He had to be brought home, went into hospital. He was emailing me. He'd had this operation. He had a very serious problem with his spine, had this operation and was in a wheelchair. And he kept saying he was striving to come and serve.

and I would always answer and then he didn't message me for quite some time and I broke my rule and I messaged him and I still didn't get message back anyway I found him I found him on social media and there was a picture of him in his wheelchair and on the caption, rest in peace, our wonderful, you know, thing. That really upset me. But, you know, life. I guess you make these connections with these men. Yeah.

Well, that's why I wanted to ask. Like, do you ever find yourself, like, him, like being in Spain with him for a week and, like, being in each other's company all that time, Do you ever find yourself thinking, like, I need to step back here because I might be getting real feelings or? No. No. I have on a couple of occasions because they've got feelings.

Right. And that doesn't sit well with me, especially if they've got a partner. So then I will say we can't session now. But, yeah. Do you think some of the things? them a friend? Would you consider any of them friends? Yeah, I think so. That's so nice. Especially one of my lifestyles, he's been with me for nearly five years. Yeah, he's definitely a friend. I think this has done, this is really not the conversation that I, I don't know

what I thought it was going to be, but it's really opened my eyes to it. I think you said earlier, like the vanilla population of which we are too very proud vanilla beans would have had a lot of preconceptions, misconceptions, a lot of like kind of, we'd have made a lot of assumptions about what you do and the people that come to see you. And I think, yeah, we probably would have judged, I feel speaking to you, it's very refreshing and lovely that there's just, it feels like there's no judgment at all. Which I think we, and they are, um, they're, they They're lovely men, you know, they're gentle, they're kind, and they're not what people think, you know, they're trashed so much for their kinks and their fetishes. And why? It's not harming anybody. But, you know, the names they get called sometimes. It's just ridiculous. And so, and it's time it came out. of the closet or whatever you call it, under the bed, wherever, you know,

that this is, everybody has a kink or a fetish of some sort, no matter how ridiculous it is. I mean, I have one for masks. I love, but I like Disney masks and things like that. So I quite often put them in a mask like that or a gorilla and then put them in a two, too. I love it. Does that make me a deviant? You know, you don't, you shouldn't,

don't judge a book by its cover. Two very quick fire questions before we wrap up, sorry. How many subs do you have? I don't know. I'm really counted. Okay. You know, because some will come twice a year. Some will come once a month.

Okay. Lifestyles will come whenever I want them A couple of times a week In my head before we started talking You would have like five to ten But I'm gathering now There's a lot more than that More than that

Yeah, yeah, okay Sorry, can I drop in with a quick one Does that mean that you don't really have to do your own housework? Oh no, I don't do my own housework Oh my gosh, wow I can't remember the last time I changed my bed Oh great! Are they good at it?

Yeah Oh, fan And do you have to like train them to be good at it Or do they just... Usually they have this desire to do it. So they'll do the bathroom. Oh gosh, yeah. And they'll do such a good job.

I bet they do. That is good. I hadn't thought of that. Okay. Sorry, back to yours. Sorry, just one last one. Have you ever had a woman? I had one who had a nappy fetish

and she'd been left on a doorstep when she was a baby. And I... we kind of were friends and I like to think that I helped her a bit but on the whole I've no I don't because I don't I can't bring myself to cane or punish another female because as far as I'm concerned we're all so much better than males why would I want to you know I love the way your brain works because you have me and then I'm a bit like I'm a bit like I feel like I got it and I feel like I get it and then I'm like oh maybe I don't get it but then I guess that's kind of the point is that like we're all that speaking to you it's like we're all really

different and listening to all of your you think that the like red red thread to all of your subs is that they all have this sort of desire but even within that they're all so different and that's kind of important to remember because I keep, I think before this, I was like, right, it's like, whips and latex. That's like my... That's it. It's all, I mean, I remember doing a, I did an interview with a magazine. And I said, please don't, I don't want any whips and change stuff.

And she said, no, no, it won't be anything like that. And the headline was Granny Whiplash. Oh, my God. I was absolutely livid. And she said, oh, I'm so sorry about that. It wasn't my idea for the title. It was the editors. so it made me very wary of course yeah you know granny whip lash for god sake well i am a granny

well nana not a whip lash oh dear it's what you get in your neck neck isn't it yeah when you have an accident isn't your fault it's been so fascinating to talk to you thank you so much for coming in and sharing everything with us thank you should i delete that as part of the acast creator network