Should I Delete That? - Deliberate Live Therapy Session

Episode Date: May 1, 2022

Jacq's back! Life coach Jacqueline Hurst re-joins the girls for an EMERGENCY podcast recording after their candid confessions last week around miscommunication with one other. They delve deep into what it really means to be a people pleaser, and how Em is finally free from the pressure to be just that. They also talk through Em's hen do, advocate for Popworld and debate who would win in a physical fight...Show timestamps:Good, Bad & Awkward - 00:02:20Interview with Jacqueline - 00:30:43Is It Just Me? - 01:30:00https://www.jacquelinehurst.com/Follow us on Instagram @shouldideletethatEmail us at [e-mail] by Butternut Box - visit www.butternutbox.com/alexandem for 50% off your first two boxesProduced & edited by Daisy GrantMusic by Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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com forward slash alex and m oh my god why did i post that ah i don't know what to do should i delete that yeah you should definitely delete that hello hello hello hello hello hello hello hello hello hello hello hello hello how are you i'm good i'm good i'm okay on my way here i was panicking i was like what we're going to talk about what we're going to talk about and then i realized i've not seen you since the hen oh no i've seen you every day I've not spent It's Thursday The home was at the last weekend

We've seen each other on Tuesday We spent the day together Yesterday we spent the day together Are you joking? And today again And then we've not done a podcast I've decided to talk about It's just really forgettable

Clearly Literally full days Like massive Oh so's So yeah how was the hair now Yeah I don't know How is it for you It was a hoot

I'm spinning I'm gonna get in trouble with Daisy I'm spinning in my chair Basically, I've not been for a walk this morning. She is high energy. Yeah, I'm literally climbing the walls. I might. Alex, if you're listening to this,

will you please make sure that M has her walk? She's literally like a dog. Will you walk M, please, before we do the podcast because it is like high energy? I know, I'm the worst. I'm like, this, oh, fuck it, we'll just go straight into my bad. The good, the bad, and the awkward. My bad is, like, I hate completely.

like, I hate complaining on the way here. I was like, we've been such a bad thing starting this podcast with like, tell me something terrible. I know. Maybe we should just do good and awkward. I know. Anyway, fuck it. Not that next time. But today, like, I'm just, I'm so overwhelmed at the moment.

And I've not got time to walk myself. Like, it's all good. It's all good. Everything's so great. But I'm getting married like super soon. And Jesus fucking Christ, sorry to take the Lord's name so vulgarly in vain. But it's so much. It's funny stuff.

And I'm like, nah, it's cool. It's not cool. It's not cool. There's so, and I'm like, yeah, yeah, most things are done. It's like most things isn't okay. Like most things, I can't bring my normal level of chill into this environment. Yeah, it's a lot. You have to organise.

You can't just organise yourself. You can't just show up. Yeah, there's so, so, so much. Yeah. So that's a lot. And everything's fine. But like, I'm just, I'm trying to do my job. I'm trying to do, we're trying to bank a lot of episodes.

And I'm trying to get all my work basically done so that I can. Because what everybody said to me, what you've said to me, is like, don't overshadow the wedding would work. Yeah. So I'm trying to really, like, heed that advice and, like, take a bit of time before to appreciate what's happening. And then obviously take the honeymoon, because I won't get this again with Alex at least. Yeah. So, yeah. I'm just trying to, like, get everything done.

And I'm very overwhelmed. And my bad bit is that I just, I'm a combination, a terrifying combination of exhausted and so highly strong that. I don't have time for my normal outlet which is exercise and energy like obviously I'm a mess and whatever normally I cope with movement and I just haven't had a time because we just get up here and like I'm too tired to get like realistically I could get up at six anyone could get up at six in the morning and go for a you know a walk or a cycle or whatever but I'm just too tired it's a lot so I just have got time to exercise and I have got time but I'm just too tired and anyway I'm fine yeah you need to yeah definitely like before your wedding at least like the week

before like just have it to like enjoy the buildup like look forward to like even get stressed about it like you know just at the moment I'm on the edge of a breakdown if anyone asks anything I'm like oh I don't know stop asking me things like yeah and then I feel like I'm being a bad person because I know that everybody else is excited and you want to be excited with them but it's just like yeah it's a lot I don't know so I feel like that's a negative way to start and then also I do feel like because everyone beforehand was like make sure you enjoy the build-up, make sure you enjoy the...

I think we talked about this. Yeah, we did, I think. But I think that's really, like, I feel bad for saying that, because that wasn't helpful to me. Yeah. Because it just made me not, well, it made me enjoy the build-up less. It's just making me feel guilt, that I don't enjoy the build-up. It makes you feel guilty, and actually, most people don't love the build-up.

Okay, good, that makes me feel better. Yeah, and it's just, like, you love the time itself. Like, it's amazing, and then, like, obviously, you're going to love the honeymoon. But, like, the build-up is a lot. I can understand why, like, 50s women stopped working after their weddings. Yeah, it's like, I'm fucking done. I'm exhausted.

No, that's a really bad thing to say, sorry. Bad feminist, slap. Wasn't a choice. That's so bad. I'm going to just put a statement out there and be like, look, it wasn't fair for women. It should have been easy for them to go back to work after their weddings. And there's an unfair society in them.

I know that wasn't a choice. That was a tongue-in-cheek joke. I'm going to retire after this wedding. You're done. I'm absolutely done. Is Alex helping much? Alex is helping so much. Oh, okay.

This is what I said this morning. We've got the help of a planner, and I've got Alex, and it's still too much for me. So I don't understand. Women that do this on their own, because a lot of husbands are just crap. And our planner's our friend, which has been really, really useful.

And because we're not getting married where we are, that we're not getting married in London. It was like we needed somebody, you know, who could help anyway. But people who do it on their own, I'm just like, you are a fucking goddesses. And doing it alongside sometimes kids, other jobs, like other job. It does feel like a job, doesn't it?

It does, it does feel like a job. But whatever, that's my bad, it's fine. My bad's my great. My bad, I'm getting married, booed. Dave was useless. Like, actually terrible, yeah, absolutely useless. Oh, God. To the point where I was like,

initially I was like, split in the task 50-50 and in the end, which is what I do with a lot of stuff. I was like, I'm just taking it into my own hands because then I've got control over it all. I'm just gonna fucking do it. I like things done, let them done now, I'm very impatient.

Yeah. Do you want to do why? Absolutely not. It literally almost killed me. You did so well. So Daisy Tubman before we started, my bark laugh is becoming a problem for the audio. Yeah. But you notice that there's a few less in there.

It's because I've cut them out. Yeah, yeah. Cut my bark. I'm going to work on that. I'm going to add it to my term. I don't want to give you a complex about it. Anyway, sorry, that was a really negative thing to kick us on. Because everything's fine.

It's not that bad. It's just a lot. It's just that we're forced to pick a bad each week, can't we? Well, we've forced ourselves to pick a bad each week. I know. I feel really, like, on the way here, I was like, I fucking hate this. Like, I like looking for the good. Maybe the bad should be optional.

Maybe we should do a good and awkward and the bad can be optional if we just fancy a moaned. In that case, can we just delete everything I've just said? No. And I'll just say, I haven't got a bad this week, I'm fine. No, because I do have a bad. Okay, right, hit me. My bad. So, on your hendoo, which is also very good.

Yeah. It was very good. But on your hendoo, one of your friends, she said something like, oh, it's so bad. And I went, yeah, it's so bad. And then she was like, she looked at him and she's like, do you know that you, you echo people. And I was like, fuck, I do. You do?

But we shouldn't tell you that. Do you do I do that? No. Oh my God, is it a thing? You do sometimes, but it's nice. And you know what it means? It means that you're showing that you're listening. Oh my God.

You got a complex. Right, you went to a Henddo. I went to M-Sendu and I got a complex. That's when you need to get your T-shirt. Because she said that. And I was like, I'm 33. I'm sure that would have come up at some point. But then I was like, fuck, I think I'm, yeah.

I did something else and she was like, you're doing it on purpose. And I was like, no. Oh, well, she can get fucked. Anonymous friend, you can get fucked. I'm not doing that. Have you noticed that? Not particularly. But yes, you can tell the truth.

Not particularly. I know you do it sometimes, but I think that's, first of all, an ADHD thing, but I also think it's showing that you're listening. I think, I think I tend to, I tend to have the urge to complete other people's sentences. And I really fight hard against that because that's a shit. thing to do, but I didn't know that I echoed. I didn't want it. I'm really sorry that you have a complex. No, no. I mean, it's good. But then you know, you're like,

because literally my first instinct was like, I'm at this point in my life, someone would have sent it to me by now, like one of my sisters, my mom, like they're very honest with me. And then, but no one said that to me before. And it's a thing. So I'm like, what else is a thing that I don't know about that people. Okay, fine. I'll talk about my back. I'll go on. You burbs. Okay, yeah, I know. I'm aware of that. You, they really disgust you, don't they? They're just so loud, Al. It really disturbs you, yeah.

Okay, so we've got some bad. So sorry, we've got to go. Let's go good, let's get good. Go on, you're good. My end, do? Yeah, it was so good. Should you give a little rundown? Does anyone give me a shit?

Yeah, go on, let's give a little rundown. I was trying to keep it all secretive, and then it ended up in the daily mail anyway, that embarrassing photo of me in the pants out. So I was like, well, fuck here, let's share the news. So my two best friends, I love that. I tried to keep it all secretive. I did not. I invited five influences for all words ago.

Anyway, but my two besties came and picked me up just after we finished the last recording. And I always drive everywhere. So I was like, it was really weird, but I was a very happy kidnappy. I think I make so many decisions all the time. I was just like, cool, where are we going? I didn't give a shit.

Yeah, so we went to this amazing castle and on the Friday night we had, Ellie, my best, my maid of honor, my best friend. She's spiked it. It was just surpassed every single. single one of my expectations we just had the best time and we stayed she booked it during covid so it had to be a place that was amazing enough that if if everything was closed and we couldn't go clubbing we couldn't do anything then we would still be okay and we would have been and we

would have been so fine and it was amazing and we had these guys come and cook us dinner on the Friday night and it was so great and then on Saturday we went poor Ellie and planned for us all to go paddle boarding and like having a picnic on the beach and the weather was fucking heinous so we got down there and I was like oh my god if I get on a feckon paddle board now I'm gonna end up in Cardiff like bye um so we couldn't do that and then I was like well there's a mini golf place down the way like do you want to go and have a look and on the way to the mini golf place we drove past an arcade and we were like oh my god and I just saw your face and you were like in the air hockey I was like fuck yeah so we just went into this random arcade it's like

bream theme park if any had planned for us to go to there I'd be like what? But because it happened by accident, it was just like the best day. We had chips. We went into the arcades. We won like tickets and coins. We just played like air hockey and like went on the roller coasters. Al went on the dodgums, which is like literally the funniest thing I've ever seen in my life ever. And it was just amazing. Went on the log floof. It was so good. It was just the best day. And then Saturday night, Elle told me we were bar crawling. And that was the only bit I was nervous about it was like oh god like it's in Bristol I was like I've never been here before I'm going to be in a feckin short little stress and like and oddly I like being the

centre of retention in some areas but then there's some where I'm just like I'm really uncomfortable with it and I was really nervous about that somehow I think it's because it's going to be really sober I don't know I was like oh god anyway and then as we were just getting into the taxi this bright pink bejazzle bus came around the corner and it was a surprise for you guys as well, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah. And it was just like, so good. So good.

And my specific good from the whole week, from my whole life, to be honest, was when we sat on that bus, and Ellie and Katia, my sister and my best friend, got up and sang, what's going on, or what's up by the four non-blond. And it's my favorite song, I want to play it at my funeral, don't ask,

just fun chaos, it's a great tune. Daisy's agreeing. And I just love the song so much, and they sung it, and I don't know, there was just this moment where I was like, oh my God, like I'm the luckiest person in the whole wide world. Like, and everybody talks with weddings

that obviously about like the love of your, the person that you're marrying, your partner. But what I don't think I foresaw was like the love that I would feel for like the women in my life. Yeah. And I was just like, I am so lucky that like you all gave up a weekend and a buttload of money and your time and you're all getting on.

And I don't know, it was just like I just feel so loved by like the women that I respect so much so every time I looked around I was like oh my god I love all these people so much how lucky am I to be loved by them like that's so amazing and those two were singing and I was like they're the best people I know

and they know my favourite song and I was like almost fan girling that they knew my favourite song even though they're like but they're like my two favourite people I don't know now I'm going to cry again but I literally just burst into tears I was like oh my god

I'm like the luckiest person in the whole world it was amazing I've never felt so special not when never never like even you know like marrying Alex which is weird. Like, I can't believe that the party, the bejazzle bus surpass the engagement ring. But there was just this real feeling of just, like, proper love.

And it's like, no matter what happens, like, I know that I've got the best women in my life, and it was just fucking stunning. It was very special. And I think it was, like, one of the best moments of my whole life. Yeah. Which is, like, Steve, the bus driver must have been, like, for fuck's sake. But that party bus, it was epic. And it was just like, literally, I was having something so.

much fun and I shout myself. So good. Not actually, but like, I'm just trying to like emphasize how much fun I was having. It was so good. It was karaoke. Yeah. We were drinking Charmaine Carver, I think it was, or Charmaine Champs. Yeah.

Out of these like little plastic flutes and like in this pink and it was like a nightclub in there. And then all of a sudden you just like get a glimpse of the outside, the cold white, the cold light of day and we're on the motorway I was like don't look that way I just like sobering and we got out the out the bars and it was just like Bristol it wasn't it was like dusk in Bristol and I'm like I haven't been to but I was like fucking hell Bristol's stunning I'm like how did I get here and where am I we see much often we saw like the inside of three yeah we went to one bar then and it was really and thank God for that bar because it really slowed us down yeah but I do want to shout out the other bar that

we went to because I feel like they deserve a shout out because it was just so good we went to so the second bar we went to we were on the way bar we were on the way to wherever we were going I know I know I was such a sheep I was just following and these security guys are like hey I do want to come in we can have free shots we were like fucking A that's an absolute yes from us we went in and I don't know how it happened but we did not pay for a drink all night literally it was okay I've got it I mean, we are all over their Instagram. Like, we are literally, they uploaded, they uploaded, like, four great pictures of us

within the space of 20 minutes. And this was going to be my awkward, but it isn't, but it was going to be. Your man, the owner of the place, he asked if we could have a photo together and he bought loads of, like, Apple Schnaut. So I was like, I'll do anything for an apple schnaut, whatever, and get in this photo.

And he just put his hand on the top of my head. And I was like... Weird pat. What you're doing, that? I was like, could be worse. Could have been the arse. Still really weird. And I was like, hello.

Hi. Anyway. They were called, it was Yiamas. Yiamas in Bristol. It was so good. And yeah, there's so many hens. Well, we were the only people when we went in. We were quite a good investment because we like for a couple of apples shnaps.

We did bring a party. But it was so fun. So fun. And then we went out to Pop World afterwards, which was a 90s night. Literally the, I mean, I was, I was really, you were really drunk too. Alex, I won the limbo competition. That should have been my good. That should have been your good.

I won the limbo competition. You see my video of that? I put it in the group. Don't talk to me about the video. Why? Because there is some incriminating evidence in that video that I'm not proud of. Right, well now I have to tell the podcast

the truth about the limbo competition. What? I approached the stage. I was excited. I got through level one and this was the finals. Tabby had gone down. She'd eaten shit. She was on the floor.

She'd hit the dead. So many people had hit the deck. Yeah. I was like, I'm a fucking lovely rented dress. I can't hit the deck. That was my last sober thought. I also thought, this is my hendoo. I'm really good at the limbo and I want to do it.

And I actually am really good at the limbo, randomly, hyper mobile life. Anyway, I said to your man, as I look, buddy, I really want to win this. And it's my hendoo. So if you could just do me a little, and I winked at him. And as I did it, ever so slightly, he lifted the bar, ever so slightly, but it have been caught on video.

I was like, oh, but you won fair and square. Well, we'll never know. But in lieu of that information, we are going to assume that I won fair and square. And I also got given a free bottle of champagne and a balloon shaped like a guitar. And it was probably the, a champagne from Carver. And it was still, and I drank it out the fucking bottle. I was like, I'm a mess. I want a little competition.

I was delighted. That should have been the best. That was like, I felt really euphoric when you were. I was like, oh my God, I was like, oh my God, she's got a bottle of Charlotte Shamp, she's got a guitar.

I'm like, this is amazing. But it wasn't it? The whole night was just, I know. And no one got bad drunk because that can happen. You take like 10 women out on a night out. Some people want to like have DMCs,

some people need to cry, some people want to pull, some people want to whatever but everyone like the vibe check was like on pot everyone was on it so on like everybody was vibing everybody was absolutely shit-faced but just wanted to sing you know like we don't want to waste time we don't want to waste time talking in the smoking area like we've got bangers to sing yeah and we're going to sing them and dance them yeah yeah it was so good like i pulled a muscle did you're dancing yeah ellie couldn't turn her head the next day it's so good you're all weak So, what's the good these?

Is you good at this? Yeah, I just had a fantastic time. I had such, I had an absolute ball. I mean, I felt horrendous on the Sunday. I actually didn't feel that bad. I felt like a sack of absolute dicks all week, but I think it was an actual wedding present from God. Yeah.

But my awkward also happened on that night. Inevitably, and it includes you. Oh, yeah. And our new best friend is Stephanie. Oh my God, shout out to Stephanie. Shout out to Stephanie. She was so nice. To me, it's right, so I'll set the scene.

The floors are sticky, I'm sticky, I'm sweaty. I've just won the limbo competition. In one hand, I've got a bottle of carver. And in the other hand, I've got an inflatable balloon, shaped like a good towel. And I was absolutely delighted, and I was coming down. And this car was like, oh, my God. And this is vaguely what I remember. I'm putting pieces together.

She basically said, I love the podcast. And I was like, oh, my fucking God. And she showed me her garment, and she was listening to the podcast. presumably in the nightclub? I don't know, but it was like paused on that's episode. She was like, look, I'm literally listening to it right now. And I was like, oh, my fucking God. Now, I don't remember this from a bird's eye view,

but my friend Lucky, a reliable witness, said she was watching the whole thing. And I was like freaking out. And I was like, oh my God, Al's here. And I turn around and I was like, Alex! This poor girl, I'm like yelling your name in her face. It's like, Alex. And then you come down the stairs and you literally went, what?

Stephanie listened to the podcast and you're like and then we asked her for a picture which is definitely not what you're supposed to do and we didn't have our phones on it's so lucky my friend had to take the picture and then text it I don't know, literally no I actually have no idea

I don't know anyway lucky her to take it on her and then text it to Stephanie who then had to WhatsApp it to me or DM it to me, I don't know, anyway and we just wouldn't let her go. We wouldn't, and we were like, and every time like she walked me, we were looking up. That's so embarrassing, yeah, so.

I remember that, I remember like a search party to find me and I was running around the club like a Tasmanian devil was just like, determined to dance in every corner of the club. Oh my God, but it was so, and that photo was just so, literally it looks so drunk. So, well, there's that video of this about that I shared on Instagram, a couple of times where we thought it was a photo and it was a video I thought that was just

the one incident and then but then the next day lucky was like no it happened like seven times there were a few podcast listeners yeah I don't remember I don't remember the others which is really worrying for me I remember Stephanie because I've got photo evidence she said one happened outside but I just no we were it wasn't great we were really drunk yeah I'm sorry to any I'm just so sorry to any yeah if you know if you know this thing and you saw like I'm not proud I am delighted that I had the best night of my life but I'm not necessarily proud of my actions and I just want to apologise and we love you

and we're so sorry I bet we're an absolute shite oh my god I mean I literally dread to think what we said to that poor girl those poor girls oh my god I know so embarrassing but then I but yeah but also best night of my life so good oh it's just gas Pop world who knew if you've never been to a pop world

go go go 90s like there was not one bad song like nothing upsets me more I'm a lyric lover like nothing upsets me more you're on the dance floor and then like a song comes down and you're just like oh crying out what the fuck is this like drum and bass shit but right there wasn't

there wasn't we have the spice girls tiny temper pass out anyone that plays pass out it's good in my books yeah it's an answer it lives up to his name yeah I'm still recovering now though it's Thursday You didn't you're awkward.

Anything awkward for the week? Oh, my awkward, yes, my awkward. This has to be my awkward, because about 100 people's text of DM me, like, this has to be your awkward. So, Pearce Morgan did an interview for the Stephen Bartler's podcast, and in it, he brought up the debate about obesity. I just really love it.

And like, I love it when he chimes him. I'm like, I just, I love it when you're doing this. Like, I value your opinion so much on things that have absolutely fuckle to do with you, Piers. Literally nothing to do with you. It's so exciting for me. Nothing brings me more pleasure. Like when he talks about Callie Thorpe, you know, and that good Cosmo cover and the gorgeous Callie, who we love as a human being and tests on, and he talks about these women that he doesn't fucking go. Yeah. I'm just like, I love it when you do this, you massive bell-ent. Literally, he's just like, caught in controversy and I just...

At the expense of women's mental health. At the expense of women's mental health. And it's just a C.U.N.T. We're not allowed to use that word anymore, are we? Yeah, but we're really good at spelling. We're good at spelling. Okay. Um, so I was like, um, um, so I was like, um, um, um, so I was like, saw it angered me and I was like I'm doing a video on this because and also oh okay we won't get into it but this this like oh it's not healthy to be bigger like I was like I'm gonna write I'm gonna like get my thoughts out about this exactly what I want to say it's not healthy to be trolled by the way on the biggest podcast in the country right by just yeah yeah exactly yeah as you were yeah where's your care where's your concern for mental health

yeah exactly it is you do yeah anyway so I was like yeah I'm gonna do a video on it so did my very serious video and I was all like show and like, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, and like, annoyed. And like, quite right. I ended it with like, because he had this quote where he was like, people of mental health. And he's like, at some point, you just have to say like, come on, get over it. And it ended it on that and I was like, and now I'm done. And somehow, some fucking, I, I, to this day, I have no idea how this happened.

But I'd edited this video and managed to put in a random fucking clip of Betty and another, and my sister's dog, like, play. It is the most like it's a shit video like it's not good lighting like my sister's horrendous feet are in frame and it's just like Betty and this this other dude being like oh like we're just playing it lasted for like 34 seconds comments kept coming through and people being like I love this but I don't understand the dog thing and I was like what dog thing and then Amy messaged me and she's like Al have you seen the end of your video and you know you like have that hot flush and your blood runs

and I was like, what's at the end of the video? What the fuck am I done? And then I just looked and I was like, what is that? What is that? It's so funny. And you are so lucky. It was that and not anything else.

It could have been, well, yeah. It could have been anything. It could have been anything. It could have been the outtakes, which would have been so embarrassing. If it was like, and on that note, oh, never mind. And then, you know,

when you bring the camera close to your face before, when you try and end it, and it's like, just like, just like, it could have been all of those. It could have been anything. So, like, and she's just his ugly trotters, not yours. She, she was, she was like, really? Really?

The others were dying and she was like, did you have to? I was like, honestly, just didn't know. Anyway, so, so always watch your videos before you upload them. I can't be bothered. I don't like to watch my own videos. No, no, do I? That's clearly a mistake. Okay, right, well, we'll learn from this.

Thanks, Al. So there you go, that's my awkward. Oh my God, I can't have just done this, but I just had a little burp. Did you? That's shame on you. Shame on you. Hot, I'm a kettle. Shame on you.

Could you hear it? No. Was it ladylike and little and stunning and smell free? Odour free? Would you say the feedback? Yeah. Oh dear, I don't smell. I don't smell.

I smell a strong wreath of apples this morning. It's overpowering actually. I felt like I was in an orchard. Finally, you get a medal. Guys, this interview. This interview. This is a necessary. Oh.

This was an emergency episode. This shouldn't be my bad. very it was bad but good bad but good this is this was an emergency episode this is like triage this is like resourge this is like resourg this we text a jack in an emergency so we were

supposed to be doing something else this Monday another episode a sort of special one and then our guest got COVID so we couldn't do it we had a slot and it was like oh my god this is good timing this is stunning so we called Jack and we were like help if our last session with Jacqueline if our last episode was an accidental

live therapy this was a deliberate live therapy session. Al, do you want to talk about it? Yeah, so obviously I had the little mini breakdown last week and I was like, we need to get Jack back. So that's what we did. It was, it was Jacqueline Hurst, who you all heard on the very first episode, actually, our first which has been our most popular episode. Yeah, it was hugely popular. And we just talked about like people pleasing and boundaries. And I feel like I came away from it. feeling like incredibly self-indulgent and I still do feel a bit like like awkward that this is going out and it feels like one quite vulnerable but too also like it's just not all about me so

but I think that if anyone's listening that's a people please which I'm guessing will be a lot of people and anyone who's listening who like struggles to like cope with boundaries like listen and like the me like when I'm talking like let it be you kind of thing but that's why I think it's so important because I knew I knew or I know that you're feeling self-conscious about it but I think it's really valuable because you can talk about the theories and they're like hypothesis and like all of the the ideas behind this stuff but it's really hard to put it into practice and you often need an example of like how do I do this and you've offered people that by being really vulnerable and I actually think you've given something really really valuable and I'm really

proud of you and I'm really excited for everybody to hear this because you like I can't stress it enough like you don't know what you don't know and I think we have all been conditioned to people please and we're all really vulnerable and and and there is it's this horrible I think like combination of emotion female emotion has been so stigmatized that when we can't when we feel like we can't cope it's like we we feel so guilty for not being able to cope we feel so embarrassed for crying and and we don't know how to ask for help and it's the worst thing because I genuinely believe that so much of our conditioning has led us to be people pleases and then we can't actually cope with the reality of that because we've also been conditioned to believe

that it's weak to cry and we don't know how to ask the help and it's self-indulgent that's what it feels but it isn't yeah I mean I get that like feeling yeah but I really think this is going to help this I know we're doing that thing where we talk about how helpful it's going to be but I am actually really, like, I'm really, like, excited that we can bring Jacqueline's teachings to more people because it's such necessary shit to make women happier. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, and I'm really excited. I left feeling, like, a weight had been lifted off my chest.

Yay. And I just, yeah, I hope that it has the same effect for you guys. I just love this. And we, like, I mean, I know everybody's going to love this episode. I already know it. But, and I'm really excited that Jacks have basically agreed to be our, like, resident therapist. Yeah. So she'll be back again, which is just great.

But this specifically is, yeah, like people pleasing and boundaries and work boundaries and it's just, it's gas. And I'm proud of you, Al. Thanks. Love you. I hope your whole thing is good. And if you don't, please don't tell me. Please don't let me know. We've still got some work to do.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And that'll be for the next session. Right. Here's another, no, here's a deliberate live therapy session with Jacqueline Hess. Enjoy. Bye. Okay, hi everyone and welcome to an emergency podcast episode.

Jack's back. Jack's back. We've actually been wanting to have Jack back, haven't we, for some time? Well, since the first episode. And then it stopped being a want and started being a need. Because last week we had our, we had a candid moment about Alex's lack of boundaries and my like lack of sensitivity towards that. And yeah, and we're like, we basically need help.

Yeah, I need to know everything around, I'm sorry, I'm completely, like, what happened here? All I know is, Jack, we need it now. It's like, oh, imagine, see, tomorrow. Yes, let's do it. What happened? We've shown up at your house, we've invaded, then we've just set cameras up, we're like, help. I love it. I love it.

I made it sound like a huge. It wasn't a huge fight. It was tiny, but it was actually. I don't really fight. I don't know. I'm very non-confrontational. Yeah. But.

People didn't really fight, but it did, it did cause an interesting conversation about, like, like boundaries in general and then we just realized that there's probably loads of people that need a bit of help putting in a boundary and basically realizing that no like that saying no to something doesn't make you a bad person basically can we tell can we tell jack why she's here like let the surprise go yeah you're not really scared you have to break something up well we did say who would win in a wrestle and Alex back to herself and I think it would be me but definitely me yeah I think Who do you think we could in Levit just before we tell you this, what's happening?

Listen, I'm so spiritual and Zen, I'd rather that you didn't fight. But if we did, a physical fight, who do you think we'd written? Piper? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, not an option, me or Al. I just, I can't, I'm sorry, I can't answer. That's a good answer, that's a terrible answer, which is not what we're all right at all. I didn't even like boxing, I'm like, why would people, we weren't go to that now, but like, why would people want to watch people books and fight each like, like,

yeah, it's old, it's just, yeah, it's just. Yeah, it is weird. I actually do like it, but it is weird. Like, sometimes I'm like, why do I like this? Yeah, because you don't actually want the people to get her, but... Of course. Yeah, so I just keep the mouth on. So moving across from physical fights, why are we here, guys?

You go. No, you go. Well, I think, I think, basically, without airing all of our dirty laundry to the entire podcast, the podcast has been amazing, but it's been a lot more work than we realize, and it's been go, go, go. we've been since Christmas we've done an episode a week and we have obviously like there's so much that goes into podcast that like people don't see like I was just like oh cool we'll just like record an episode of week great but it's a lot and there's a lot of different what's up conversations we've got one with our management one with our producer one with the guy who runs our social media accounts and it's kind of chaotic and we're still and you guys are doing your own things yeah right yeah we are and we're all right and we're all right and we're all right and we're all obviously friends as well and we're still in the process of trying to like streamline everything and make it just as little work as possible but it is it's it is it is

chaotic yeah and we wanted to make sure that we don't hurt each other's feelings but we also have the confidence to say when we can't do something and I think like Al and I are both people pleases and we thought since like we've done doing the work on this yeah yeah disaster we're both trying to please each other and we're trying to please like obviously like our listeners which is probably the most important thing in terms of the work element but then we've got to please everybody else and like and try and make everything go as smoothly as possible but we're so scared of hurting other people's feelings and yeah i think it's not actually a massive deal in our friendship but we just thought

since we're having this conversation it actually would quite cool to work it out and to like play it because i know that we won't be the only people that feel like this or like they're scared to like say no to something or whether it's be their families or like their bosses or whatever because they don't want to be disliked or dislike the word I'm looking for. Yeah, yeah. They don't want to piss people off or they don't want to let people down. Or be seen as difficult. But one of the things that you taught me was that I couldn't let people down.

I told you that and I also taught you, which is very controversial and people only really sort of really understands on a deeper level when they do, in quotes, the work with me about mindset. Our thoughts create how we feel, right? And I'm bang on about this all the time, right? Our thoughts are in our brain and how we feel as in like an emotion. in our body okay so if we're the ones that are creating how we think we're therefore the ones that are creating how we feel okay which tells me that I can't hurt your feelings and you can't hurt my feelings because it's all dependent on how

I think about that thing and it's really hard for most people to understand and maybe they need to rewind that and listen to that 20 times if they need to but ultimately you doing you doesn't need to affect me unless I think about it in a way that it does so you can be late right

you guys can say okay we're going to be here at one o'clock and you can rock up at like 20 plus one I have two different ways of thinking about that right option A is negative why is she doing that why are they so late don't they respect my time not blah blah blah blah blah negative negative usually make it personal

right it's about me you know and then we go into this like now i'm angry and we think we're angry or i would be angry at you guys being late but i'm not i'm angry because my thoughts have created that within within me so it's a better way to think which is like maybe she got stuck in traffic maybe she's got her own stuff going on right now you know maybe maybe maybe there could be some much better thoughts that you could choose that would make you feel calm now that doesn't mean sorry i'm going off but that doesn't mean I allow you to disrespect my time over again right but it does mean that step one is that's not about me and I get to choose how I feel so what do how do you

so this first time we're late right and you're like okay well they're chaotic obviously they're late but when we're late again the third or fourth time but I would have said it the first time so the first step is choose a thought that feels good because me thinking oh my god that I can't believe they're doing that to me, doesn't feel good for me. So I choose the thought that feels good, which is like maybe there's an issue, maybe there's a problem, maybe the trains were delayed, like it's not their fault, you know, then I feel calm, then I can take the right action, which is, guys, what happens, right? And you might be like, oh, I was, I didn't know what to wear, in which case I could very

gently say, listen, hon, next time, if you could come at one, please be here at one because I've got clients, and I can just then say something really calmly, which is a boundary. But if my thoughts are all jumbled up and I've got really negative feelings going on, how am I ever even going to say the right thing to you? It might come out sideways. Like, I can't believe you were late. And then boom, it all goes wrong. So it starts in the head.

But... No, I love the butt. It's good. But, I mean, if everyone had that outlook... But it's not about then. that I would be able to do it. It's about you and it's about your disease to please. It's about you desperately needing to please other people.

And that is really important work to do, Alex, because why do we want to do that? Which part of us needs to please? What is that? And why is that, right? Is it a fear that someone's going to abandon you if you don't please them? Is it that they're not going to like you if you don't please them? And I'm a really big believer of like, and it's okay to cry, right?

I'm a really big believer of allowing our feelings out, right? And as I've got older, I'm double your age now. I'm really even more of a big believer of like, get it out because that's suppressed emotion and we can't keep it in. Why do we need to please? What is it? What are we so frightened of if someone says, I can't believe you said that to me? I think it's a multi, but what's the worst thing that can happen, Alex?

if someone says. But if let's go that, right? What's the worst thing that can happen? If you say what you think and someone disagrees with you and they have a difference of opinion, what's the worst that can happen? I mean, I get anxiety. I suppose that's the worst really. Or they do, you know, don't want to be my friend anymore. Okay, so let's follow that one through. That you and I are friends and you say to me something and I say, I don't, don't agree with that, Alex, blah blah blah blah. I don't want to be your friend anymore. Let's just pretend that happens. What's great about that? Go on. I'm not allowed to answer. I know she's not allowed to. I would say anything.

It's obviously toxic in the first place. So why would you want a toxic friendship in your life? Because every time I've said to people in my life, and I'm speaking from experience, right? I'm, and I say this a lot, I haven't got 400 degrees, but I'm speaking from a drug addiction, anorexia, bulimia, this addiction, that addiction, pulling myself apart, pulling myself apart to rebuild and relearn and learning that if I say to somebody, this is my boundary and that person kicks and fights against it and leaves my life, that is a gift. Because why would I want that toxicity in my life? because the people that love me, the real people that love me,

they're going to say, look, I don't agree with what you're saying. You don't agree with what I'm saying. And it's cool. We've both learned each other's different opinions. And now let's move on. And that is where I then fill my life with really great people rather than superficial stuff that isn't really real. You could come in here and we can have a great time

and you could walk out and be like, oh, it's so nice to Jacqueline and I know she really likes me and it's really cool. And I can shut up the door and go, I can't stand that girl. how can you control my thoughts I can't but I'd be much happy and knowing that that is what you were thinking about me rather than

and that's a question why I don't know you do because I just want people to like me I don't know but you do why so that I have people around me

and that they don't leave me so that's exactly yeah I'm never going to leave you with you're gonna so that's exactly what these things come down to which is about abandonment

it's like if I don't do something that makes them happy they're gonna leave you know they normally they won't leave this is the other thing like I was really scared

and I started doing the stuff with Jack like I was so scared that if I started saying shit like if I started saying no I'm not coming for dinner or no whatever like I don't want to do this

that they'd be like, well, you fucking bitch, I'm never going to have you for dinner again. But we said this last week, nobody thinks about me as much as I think about me. It's a very unusual reaction for them to do this. And I really thought everybody would drop off out my life

and I really thought I wouldn't see anyone again. Arguably, I have more friends now because I can be, you always say to me that I have too many friends, but it's like I could be a better friend because I know my own boundaries better now. I like to keep as few friends as possible because it's too much.

But you can't please people. thing you've got to really delve into, which is why I coach is a massive thing, because when you understand the why of like, why am I so bothered about this? Why do I care so much about other people liking me? It's like basically you've built your foundation on sand like that. I can't do anything in my life based on what other people think about me. Because some people are going to love what I'm saying today, some people are going to hate what I'm saying today and none of it's got anything to do with me. Does that make sense to you? Totally.

And it's like such a revolutionary thought. But it's really important because you can't make her like you. No. I do anyway. Right around and be exhaustive and do a million different things, if that's even a word, to make her happy. She can still choose not to. That's her choice.

So you need to like you because fundamentally that's the next stage. If I like myself enough, these boundaries are in place. I do wonder as well like if you are such a people-pleaser which I know that a lot of people listening to this will be because I've had loads of DMs about last episode being like I'm the same like I just have no boundaries and I can't say no and I do wonder if that leads you to sort of

or not leads you to but it sets you up for having sort of less of a sense of self well you don't have a sense of self so you're saying about liking yourself yeah and it's like and you said before like you do you and then everyone can sort of fall in line but then a huge part of my life is I'm doing what everyone else wants to do so I don't really know what like what is me doing me is

it comes down to you loving you and you Alex of all people have done it in a way around your body and your food and all of this stuff which is amazing and you're helping millions of people right by saying I have done my journey and learning to love myself so I don't care what you think about my body so if you've done it there you can do it here

because there's no difference so if I love myself enough today I'm going to behave in a way that is protecting of myself these are the hours that I work these are the things I'm okay with right I just got rid of a relationship with someone who was basically

trying to control when I could and couldn't speak to my clients I was like that's not going to work for me right this is my boundary this is my work I love my clients. And if they text me at a certain time or I need to respond to an email, that's what I'm going to do.

And I'm sorry that that doesn't work for you, but this is how I live my life. Bye-bye. That's self-protection, right? And you do it on a massive, we do it, I don't think you should underestimate how much you do it online. You know, like, the thing is,

for me, for you, for anyone, if you want to find bad things, I remember saying to Jack once when I was being trolled, well, when I found out about forums or whatever, or comment sections, whatever. and I remember saying to Jack it, if I sit on them, it's like self-harm.

And she was like, don't be so stupid. Like, it's not self-harm. Why are you giving them the power to hurt you with? And I think about that all the time. I'm like, why do I want to go out of my way to go and look for the bad things? And it's like, I was so obsessed with knowing what everybody thought of me because I needed the validation in whatever capacity I could find it, that I'd like go in a million different directions looking for people to have things wrong with me

because I was like permanently wanting to approve myself, I think. that's how I kind of told myself. I was like, well, if I know what they don't like, then I can make that better. Market research. Yeah, literally. And then it's like,

why am I doing this to myself? Like, it's not, you can, all it came down to, I realized, well, because of talking to Jack, was it,

I was just ruining my own day? I know that if, like, I wanted to, I could find negative comments about my hen weekend, you know, because we shared quite a lot of it online. They'll probably be comments.

I've had a couple being, oh, your dress is too tight on your booth. I'm like, tell me about it. Like, you know, there could be, this was tacky this was this was she she looked like a mess and she was doing this or what you know people could say all these bad things and I could go looking for that and let them ruin my day but

then why do I want to because I had the best weekend of my life and it's like I always feel like it's like that now I'm just like why do I want to give these people my power and I know it's easier not to give it to anonymous people on the internet but I also do it with other people I'm just like why do you want to shit on me and why am I going to stand underneath you and let you do it like I just I know I know I'm like you want to take this trick you can take it but I'm going away from it like I don't know I like that analogy yeah well I'm putting up an umbrella maybe the thing to do is you know you guys are friends is to practice with each other of saying no right like make it a practice I love when you say no to me I would say

this too I love when you say no I'm like you're not gonna because this is my favorite thing about texting Jacqueline is I know that when I send the messenger if I don't reply or whatever the things I would normally worry about with other people like oh god they're going to be annoyed if I don't reply or they're going to be blah whatever I'm like I kind of know where I stand with Jacqueline 100% confidently and I know I still have some work to do there because you also taught me that it doesn't matter what other people reply I still have to do my thing but that's by the bye when I when I when you say to me like oh I can't do this or whatever I'm like okay and I love when you

do it I'm like yes like good fabric because then you but then you always follow it up but I'll make it work and I'm like don't it's not going to work let it go It's just to practice, right? It's just to practice. And it's also, and again, you might not like this, Alex, and some of your listeners might not like it too. But there has to be a time where we step away from that mentality of, you know, I need to please people. And if I don't, I get anxious. Because that's like, why would you do that to you? And that keeps you staying small. And we're here for bigger things, right? So I'm going to use those words, which are controversial, but it's a victim mentality of like, oh, I'm. can't say no and then I feel bad about it and like elevate yourself push yourself through it try it gently small steps like try it with your best friend like hey Joanna I'm gonna this week I'm gonna put some boundaries down and practice and you know like and try how that works try it with you know and and just be yeah and I know you want me and how you deliver a boundary is really important as well right like it doesn't have to be a scary awful thing and

And if it's with your family, for example, it's, I love you. I would love to come this weekend. And I love that you've asked me to come. And there is nothing more I want to do. And this weekend, I just can't make it. Yeah. Not a butt. And not a butt.

So I'm a big one on, I'm a big one of changed the butt to the ends, right? Ands. And again, we'll talk about self-love. If I love myself enough, that's what I'm going to be doing. Yeah. You know, if I love myself enough, I'm going to deliver a boundary in a really gentle, loving way, knowing however they take that is not to do with me. I can't control that, right? And if someone doesn't like it and kicks up a fuss and storms out my life, that's a gift as well.

Okay, then you're not meant to be in my life. And so to live authentically, you have to start from a space of loving yourself enough to want to. do this work like you did with your body image you loved yourself enough it is amazing that you can say to people I don't give a fuck what you think about my ass

I fucking love it so again like you've done it there so you can do that here because there's no difference what other people think about me is none of my business what other people think about me I cannot control

right and everyone goes through life with a different map of the world of different lenses, different glasses, but when we stop making it so personal and we start taking care of ourselves, things start to change and move. I think another thing is that I wasn't very good at letting people, I wasn't very good at letting people be wrong about me.

So when you said it's the and not the but, like I'd always say like, and I love you and I can't come. And then I'd think, well, the person's going to think I don't love them. And now I'm like, well, if you want to think that, I have to let you. because I can't come around your house and like multi-horts I just have to let you be wrong

I know I love you and if you can't believe that that I'm really sorry but that's like that's on you right now pretty much my whole life people have got it wrong about me pretty much my whole life right

and I have had to learn from those experiences that I can't control what they think I am more important more important is what I think about me right can I go into my work and work with my clients and give it my best and work my hardest and deliver everything

I want to deliver in that session and put my head on the pillar at night and know I've done my best yes but I can't control what the client thinks about me I've just got to do my best for me and then everything falls into place and I really do believe because I'm so spiritual on this well on everything but fundamentally when I'm working from being authentic life is a lot more peaceful and things just fall into place better. Yeah. Because at the moment you're like running around trying to make everything okay for everyone and fix this and do that

and be this person's thing and help that person over them. It's not, it's, you are going to fall flat on your face because that's what happens and that will be a journey as well, right? But it sounds like you're starting to look at that and say, this isn't working for me anymore. Can we flip it

and look at the other side because me for example, like I don't think I'm very innocent in these sort of boundary-less relationships either like I remember when you told me about talking to M when when you told me about um how you and Alex like love your alone time oh yeah being my Alex my like fiance Alex yeah you like do your own thing and you're like that's great like we love it and I was like that just like blew my mind because I like I would love to just go and watch some shit on the TV by myself but I feel like if I'm not

it feel like if I was to say that today you're like, that feels too much I don't know, I feel like I can't do that. Do you think he's going to leave you? Because you're like, I want to watch Sex and City for an hour. Which is so interesting to say, because you're doing his thinking and it's not really fair. No, I mean, actually, when you said that to me,

can I mean I think he probably love it as well. Yeah, Alex loves being on his own. But this is where I'm not very innocent either, is that when he, for example, when Dave says to me, like, you know, we've got a night together and he says, oh, I'm going to go and have a bath. I'm like, I'm hurt, I actually feel hurt by that. And I know that's really sad to a bit. You have to learn how to be okay just doing you, right?

Like, otherwise this can get quite dangerous. You're stuck, involved with things and people and jobs and all these things where everything's just going to be like, ah, I can't, I can't. Like, it's going to get too much. Yeah. So, like, do you ever take time for yourself? I mean, I feel like, I feel like, I feel like. like I'm good now, like, as in if I'm working, I feel okay being like,

well, Dave, I've got like two hours of work to do. I can do that. Can you have a set? Thank you. You tell it what the question was. But like... Because I know that I'll answer. No.

It was the last time you did anything on your own? Well, apart from when Dave got food poisoning and you had to go out at New York on your own? Yeah, I did do that. That was very exciting, actually. You loved it, though, that did? I did. Yeah, I was terrified, but I loved it.

Yeah, I guess not that. Oh, yeah. I also want to say, it's actually. you know again this is just my opinion my personal opinion but like let's say we don't want to say something we don't I want to upset someone or we don't want to do something someone wants us to do and so we just do nothing that's actually worse than responding with a boundary because then that person's like well wait what I'm confused hang on yeah yeah why am I like what it's much better to say

thanks for your email yeah and no or and you know I put your details of file and whatever it might be then ignore and I think this generation is particularly bad at that I have to come back to you because I ignore things that I don't want to deal with I have 258 and Red Wall sat messages yeah

I mean that is a lot of messages and it's important to you know speak up 7,700 emails I've just looked at my computer yeah so you need some stuff yeah but you know like speaking up about these things are really important right and saying actually thank you for this and no or thank you for this and I can't or thank you for it's just it's important actually

because otherwise when people are left and lurched with these things they haven't got a clue is it yes is it no is it this is it that it's difficult right so all of these so you've got 7,700 people to practice on the boundary and Alex should do it for you basically inbox. I feel like I'd be great with someone else though. I'd just be like, no, sorry, I can't do by it. I tell you something that I do all the time, just thinking about what you're saying about doing someone else is thinking for them all the time.

Like, I very often, I'll get my own security, project it onto somebody else, and then it, like, swings around and just wax me straight in the face. Yeah. And, like, so I'll be like, I'll hear, like, my Alex, or like, I'll hear him sigh, and I'm like, well, he fucking hates me. And I'll turn around and I'm like, what have I done now? he's like, nothing, I've just taken a breath exactly. I just forgot, but in my

head, because I'm maybe I'm feeling a bit insecure because I know I've not done the laundry or I know I've not been a great girlfriend and I know or, you know, and I've got, what was it? A hundred percent and I do it. And then I have to turn around and then they say, I'm like, sorry I think, I know you weren't really sorry with me but it's like, you do it instinctively and you're like oh God and then, yeah, but I do it all the time

but I think that goes back to people pleasing as well because you'll do it with like, oh, they'll be annoyed at me if I say no, and so you instinctively go on the defense you're like oh if I say no there'll be a noise so what you'll go about like a million degrees of chaos you're like um okay right so I can't do this but I've got my fault that I can't do this thing because I've got this and then you give a million excuses and the other person it's like I don't need your excuses I don't care but like you give them one gives them I'll do it or I used to do it and now I'm just

like and it almost annoys me now except I'm telling my inner jacket when they're not letting anything annoy me but when people give me their excuses I'm just like I don't really need these. Like you could have just said no I'm not coming but I know why people do it because they get defensive and then they think oh shit I have to I have to give you my excuse because I have to keep you happy and if I've got a good enough excuse

then you won't be annoyed with me anymore yeah it's valid yeah I think that's a big part of people pleasing yeah but you can't control what people think I mean I can't say that's you totally I can't control what you guys think of me we love you well I love you and that's lovely and if you choose to not like me it's okay too and that's when you've got your power because if I go off oh my god well that's

great that they love me and then it's okay and so what happens when you don't love me anymore then who am I where am I oh my god right I'm not going to hand that power to anybody so do you honestly not like if we were to okay so we leave here and you I don't know outside and you over here is bitching about yeah she's such a bitch yeah I actually don't like her no don't bring the dog into this jacket take it back she's shit like whatever like really horrible stuff do you genuinely not care yeah because it's not about me i genuinely didn't care now and i never thought i'd get to that phase like i genuinely when people are mean about me now i just think are you all right well that's right yeah yeah i'm like this is happy people this was literally

happy people don't talk shit about other people yeah like when people bitched me now i'm just oh come on like really like because it's all it is is a projection they're just projecting their own insecurities I'm like I'll just go to therapy this is ridiculous don't just sit and be mean it's just annoying and so people mean about me I'm like this is all this is telling me is that you don't like this about yourself because people tell me all the time I'm too much and I'm just like well you clearly don't think you're enough and that's sad for you but I can't help it is projection a lot of the time isn't it's like how much you think about that Alex that like it's possible to be able to be a person who can listen to people bitching outside the house and be totally like whatever. See I feel like I'm much better now with like internet people doing it like because they don't know me you know they they're just they just see what I show online and that is like hardly any of my life. I mean we're doing it a huge like mobability. No but they don't really know me. They've never met me and it's and like

whatever it's just it's just what I am like curating to put out online it's not really you know but but then for example like if I was good to toilet now and hear you two like bitching about me it would literally kill me why because you know like you've met me in person so that we're wrong about you no we'd be wrong about you because online like I can think well those people it's not real what they're saying because they don't know me other people what em and I are saying is more real than what you think because you know us better you know you better than we know you well yeah so so i guess it would like depend on what you're saying like she's just like she likes to talk about herself

doesn't she like that like that we're in podcast shows i know i mean but like if you if you're like she goes she bangs on about herself didn't she like i'm sitting here the whole time thinking like they're thinking i'm talking too much about myself we're the idiots for listening why are we here if we don't like the situation that we're in enough that we're going bitch about it after you go, that's our fault for sitting into a situation we didn't like. Also, back to your self-esteem again, right? If you're cool with what you talk and how you talk

and how much you talk, then what I mean I say shouldn't matter. Yeah. So it comes down to self-esteem, right? Yeah. If you are cool with you, like you are with your body, if you're that cool with who you are as a person, then what other people think or say about you, like, whatever, good for you that you think that.

Yeah. it's cool because you don't know me so it's cool you do you because if it was like you saying that I'd be like okay then say the same things and then like and even if you did like it does like what like saying like oh I talk about

I've talked about myself too much if I said that to you yeah I think you'd believe me wouldn't you'd be like oh did I I think you're your first response to you know did I say too much? Oh yeah but you didn't but that's my I would be I always think with this stuff I'm just like

why is your opinion more important than my opinion? That's exactly the right way to think. It's like, just because somebody has an opinion about you, it doesn't mean that they're right. And I always used to think that. Like, when people would say to me, like, because people, I think I had a really weird, like, beginning with it. Like, because obviously, you know, people would be dipped at school and stuff,

but I started being trolled by, like, Daily Mail commenters when I was 17. And I took, I can't, and I know it's different to real life stuff, but I took what they said as gospel. Yeah. And I think that was a really pivotal moment for me in learning how feedback was so important to me and because they said these things and they said that I had a face that only a mother could love.

And I remember these comments very specifically. They told me, and I was a kid, I was like 16. And they said I was a gobbie cow and they said that I looked like I needed a slap and like I remember one person say, and this was over 10 years ago and I still remember the comments so clearly. And I remember thinking this is fact. These people can see in me something that I can't see, because I have no self-esteem.

So when they're telling me this, I was like, fuck, like, shit, this is the truth. And I gave them so much power, and I think that set a precedent for literally my whole life because so much, if anybody said anything about me, like, another thing that comes up with me all the time of people say, in real life, people say it's so oversensitive. And now, and I would take that, and I'd be like, oh, my God, and that would be like the biggest, like, the most heartbreaking thing for me to hear. And now when people say it, I'm just like, okay, so you can't deal with my sensitivity. Yeah.

Well, I don't know what you want from me. I don't know what you want from me. If you don't like it, why are you here? Yeah. Because that's just annoying for everybody. Like, if you want to sit and whatever, and you want to... And I can't believe, now, looking back, that I gave all this power to people who literally, like, commented on the Daily Mail. Like, how sad.

But in real life, when people say things that are mean about me or that, you know, whatever, I'm just like, okay, okay, that's your opinion. me it isn't who I am and if it's who I am to you then you have a decision to make you want to keep me around and you keep me being an oversensitive whatever or you remove me but you really can't I'm not going to be involved in what you think about me because I've got my own thoughts to think about I can't think about yours as well so I just it's you always make the comment on Instagram it's like my body's not trip advisor please keep your opinions to yourself and I kind of feel like that with the mind as well I'm like you don't need to review me I don't need review I don't need you to tell me how I've done at the end of a conversation and it's the

same with bitching it's like when people are bitching about you or saying things about you're telling oh you're a bit oversensitive or you're a bit emotional you talk to that but again that's got nothing to do exactly why are you telling me this go write this in your diary you don't need to tell me and it's got nothing so imagine that right so she's doing whatever she's doing and someone comments oh you're so oversensitive think about that like in your mind what has that actually got to do with them that some random is writing your over-sensitive. What's that got to do with her? Fuck all.

Can you see that? Literally. To me this is mind-boggling, right? Because it's like, what is that? This person has got, it doesn't mean anything to do with them at all. It's someone sitting there typing something hiding behind a keypad going, I'm going to spew

this at you today. Well, all right then, good for you. But what's it got to do with her? Even in real life when people do it. So it's the same thing. Can you explain, can you break it down for us about. I feel like you're getting it. Yeah. Wait a second. Do you understand that?

Yeah. I feel like the cogs are tiring a bit now. Yeah. It's like that's got nothing to do with nothing. But then, okay, sorry I always playing devil's advocate, but like devil doesn't need an advocate, he's the devil but also, yeah. But like I'm just thinking it through, right?

Yeah, yeah. But I guess if someone was to say it to Em like, oh, you're oversensitive, like they have a choice, they can just unfollow her, right? And they can get themselves away from her content or not, whatever. but like you don't really need their relationship but if it's someone in your life that you do it's a relationship that you value you don't need them no okay no i don't need them to be in your life right is meant to be in your life and step one is you've got to respect you first and stop

asking other people to do that for you so we have to stop asking other people to do for us what we cannot do for ourselves right we have to learn to like ourselves we have to learn to like ourselves we have to learn to value ourselves. We have to learn to respect ourselves. We have to learn that our voice is important and that we have needs and we have wants and we have all these different things and all these things are okay. And once we understand that, we then portray that to the people around us. And the people around us that we portray that to who really love us are totally on board with that. And the people that probably need more therapy are the people that can't understand that at all. Yeah. And usually that does happen in families, right? Because there's all

this undercurrent stuff going on. Except that, what I know to be true is I really like clarity, right? I really don't like to be confused. I think, I think that being around healthy people, I'm not in confusion around things. Unhealthy people make me confused about things, right? I feel confused when I'm around someone who's unhealthy and I shouldn't feel confused. I should feel very clear. Right. So when I put down a boundary and there's a confusing reaction to that right that's nothing to do with me when I put down

a boundary and someone says I accept that boundary I don't love it but I accept it that's great that should stay in my life and when I put down a boundary at someone will not accept it at all then they're not meant to be in my life so it's actually very clear can I ask

what were you like before doing this I was you know I've written a book right so I was a drug addict for 10 years. I was into alcohol. I was into anorexia and bulimia. I had no friends where I remember being really badly bullied at school. You know, I got black eyes and, you know, thrown downstairs and walking past the cloak room where all the girls used to hang out on, I put it in the book. I remember walking past and I was young, like 10 or 11 and they all screamed out, we hate Jacquelinehurst. It was like heartbreaking past my parents weren't really around so I would go home to a home where there was

really nobody there black and blue and I wanted to make sure that you know my parents were you know knew I was okay so they would say how are you and I'd say I'm fine and I would be black and blue but I didn't want to upset them I wanted to people please and make sure that everything was okay and I wore the I'm fine mask and I was terrified of what people thought about me all that like I couldn't get it right and most people hated me it was such a gift it was such a gift because it taught me who I was and by people behaving like that it taught me to stand on my own two feet

and love myself first and so I had to learn from worrying about what everyone was thinking about me all the time and oh my God what does he think what does she think I need to people please this one and I need to do right for that one I mustn't speak up there I ended up trying to commit suicide

multiple times and breakdowns multiple times and living in this like awful squat you know like my life was so different and then i had a moment where i was like life is not meant to be this i'm i have to do better i have to get better i have to understand and when i went through like recovery i used to go to loads of meetings any meetings a meetings like you know and it was it was a big part of saving my life they taught me in there how to rip apart my ego and find this thing called humility and i had the sponsor who was like 80 he was like 80 years old and he was tough, tough, tough.

I remember one day going, oh, you know, I can't go to that meeting because the jeans I want to wear and not out of the dryer. And he was like, no one gives a fuck about you. And I was like, I'm sorry. What?

I couldn't believe it. He was like, no, I gives a fuck about you. Put on a fucking pair of tracksuit bombs. You better be there at 7 o'clock or I'm not going to be your sponsor anymore. And I like, race to know, and as I was like racing, I remember thinking,

do you know what? Actually, no one is. really going to care what I look like what I'm wearing did it like people and my ego started to change and that was really important for me to learn that I wasn't the centre of everybody else's universe having to please everybody all the time and by me not pleasing people I got myself into such terrible situations that I was like fucking enough I'm going to be me fully me and I'm not perfect I'm absolutely imperfect but I'm going to I'm going to do me to the best of my ability and everyone else is either going to

fucking fit into that and work around that or they're going to leave me. And what I noticed was the more authentic I was, I built stronger friendships, I built stronger relationships and that's when real real relationships came into my life. So I had to do

everything that I didn't realize I had to do to become who I was today today. So yeah, I fully, this is what I'm saying, I'm not sitting here speaking from having studied a degree in sociology I've done real life

and real life was painful for me painful of trying to keep people happy all the time and I never did it I never kept anyone happy if anything I did the opposite

I never kept anyone happy I could never get it right I could never get it right so I had to learn to do me and that was where it started I think that there has to be like an element of like you have to be realistic with all this stuff like you know you can start saying no to things

and you can put your boundaries in place but it's like there still will be people that push you and you know whatever and it's just it's like it's learning that you have the power to choose how how you react to them and one of the best things jack ever taught me was that I can send a message like I can write something and how somebody reacts to that like I need to go into the message not thinking about how they're going to reply to it because you go into it you think okay well they might say this and they might say this And it's like, again, but that's nothing to do with what I want to say. So I'm going to say what I want to say.

And it doesn't matter if this person comes back and go, oh my God, I love you. You're the best thing I've ever seen. This is the best message I've ever received. Or if they come back and they go, you're an absolute fucking bell and I despise you and everything you've written here. It doesn't matter. I'm still going to send what I want to send.

And it was like that, I literally do that as like a workshop. I was like sending messages and I was like, doesn't matter what you reply. I think that's your home work. It was like, it was like, it was like, it doesn't matter how people reply to them. It's like painful, like the detail. I'm like, I will add an exclamation mark so they know I'm saying this is, I'm saying this in a nice way. But you sing that, but you don't know.

Literally, I don't know. Remember the Instagram stories that you did about everybody's different interpretations of an emoji. Some people think a smiley face is a good thing. Some people think it's sinister. Totally right. You can't, you can't predict how you're going to be perceived. If you put an exclamation marks, me I'd be like, stressful.

I'd be like, stressful. But someone else, they might be like, oh, she's so happy. Exactly. You just don't know. See, when you think of life, that you might as well just do you yeah right because it is exhausting doing all that other stuff but do you know what I mean when I'm saying like I don't know then like what me is that's why that's okay and that's okay and what a beautiful place to start right

that's fun and you get to know you yeah and also baby baby steps right yeah like okay so what can I do every day one thing a day that can help me with my boundaries where might I want to say no today? Where might I send an email that is a little bit stronger than normal because my boundaries in there, right? Where might I do this? Where might I do that? And one thing a day, like anyone can do one thing a day, right? And then you practice. Yeah. And two weeks later, you're like, yeah. And the beautiful thing about boundaries, I've worked with like loads of people, right? And every time I've done this work for people, like really delve deep into this work with people. Every single time I'm like, right, do this for homework, do that for home. They come back,

and within two weeks they're like I can't believe I never fucking did this before I can't believe I didn't really yeah it's a switch right Evan's smiling she's like yeah I remember because it's such a nice and you go with one you start doing this with one thing and you realize

how many areas that it seeps into yeah and it just I don't think like I can't have a matter like people who know me now you didn't really know me that well before I did the coaching I was like you know fence you I was just so scared of upsetting people, of letting people down, of disappointing people down, of disappointing people people, huge, hugely and it made me so anxious all the time and it didn't make me a better friend, it didn't make me a better daughter or sister or partner or employee or client or anything.

It didn't make me a better anything. It just made me, it just made me exhausted because you're so, you literally, and I said this to you the other day, it's like, you're, you're, and I said this to you the other day, it's like, you're, you're. you can chase your tail and life basically is chasing your tail but the relief comes when you know that you can't catch it and it's just like and then you might as well enjoy it like if and if you're just stressing yourself out so much trying to do this thing it's like you don't have to do this you can choose calmness and that was like the biggest thing for me and that seeped into everywhere when I send a message I'm like okay well this probably isn't the end of the world this probably isn't and if it is oop like well we'll tell that when we get

to it but it probably isn't and I'm going to send this message I'm going to say no I can't do that quote as well I'm probably going to get it wrong but there's the lovely quote and it's like the only people that are affected by you having boundaries are the people who've benefited from you having none and that

is like everything so the people that get annoyed at you having a boundary because people will there will be something in your life that will be annoyed at that the people they annoyed at it are annoyed because they benefited they benefited from you not having any and how they're so powerful i look at your life and there are people that benefit from you not having boundaries because because you are one of the most generous people with literally everything that you own and i think i think for me that i may be seeing you and correct me if i'm

wrong is that you worry that you can't, that people, well, not the people won't like you as much, but it's like you worry that you're going to become a selfish person. I think it wasn't, it wasn't even other people's perception that worried me. It was like, what if I become somebody that isn't nice? Yeah. And that's such a big fear. But it's like, I'm not going to, I'm not, like, sending the good away. I'm not, what I'm doing is, is, is being a much better asset for myself. I'm actually for everybody else, but it doesn't make you a bad person to say no. It doesn't make you, you know, like you can be as generous, and I put that in quotation marks, like with your time or with your money or with whatever you want.

But at the end of the day, if you can't be present in your mind or you can't be a complete person, then, well, actually, that hurts you. And anybody that looks at you being hurt, because I can see that you're stressed. And anybody around you can see that you're stressed because you've got loads on. And if people can look at you being stressed and still want to take from you, then fuck them. Like, fuck them. And I always think that would work, like, you know,

in the context of people's work stuff. And if you can see somebody's massively overstretched or not even what, any area and you can see somebody struggling and they still want to take advantage of you, then they're not the right person or they need to change the way they behave around you. Yeah. And that's okay. But remember, they don't take advantage. You let them.

Yes. Oh, well, that's the whole thing. It's true. It's so true. Given it. And I'm. Like, you know, and I, I have, like, kind of practice, like, some badgeries by saying no initially, but then, but when someone comes back with a counter-argument, like, but, um, you know, we'll, we'll take it off your hands by doing this and, and which obviously never fucking happens. I end up having to do the work anyway, you know, but I would say, but I would say, but I would say a awful year. No, it is. It is my fault. Then I just feel like I can't say no because they're putting this case forward and, you know, you know, to do that.

And then I'm... But it's got on how to do with that. Yeah. Can you physically say the word no? It's practice. No. No, I can't. There's not many nice ways to say no, right?

There's so many great ways to say no. And, you know, no one ever makes you do things. No one ever pushes you to do things. No one ever does any of that. It's always on you. It's always on you. That is so true. Sorry, that's true.

It's so true. It's, it's, it's, it's. so true because also then I get like really like I'm like feeling sorry for myself and like annoyed that I got fooled into something or yeah but that's just a you know but actually it really is yeah and I used for great at self-pity parties back I'm really good at I'm really good I mean and today if I really want a self-pity party I find it really funny I'm like Jack are we really doing this today yes yeah I'm like oh and then I give myself an hour I'm like okay exactly

but the self-party party comes in that again from that whole victim mentality of like poor me you know

I can't believe they're making me do that like no it's not happening you're doing it by not saying no yeah

right and it's like we must take responsibility for ourselves and we're not always going to get it right you know sometimes you're going to get it

wrong and say yes and you meant no and that's okay because you're learning I think we always have to give ourselves like that kindness

as well right like you know boundaries are important and learning how to put them down as important and we're not always going to get it right. That was one of the first things you ever said to me. You were like, and I always thought you were quite mean,

but you said, this is a nice thing that you said. You said you do what you do with the tools that you had. Yeah. But now, like, now's a chance just to pick up better tools, basically. Listen, I'm still learning, right? I mean, you know, I am not far from, I haven't got it.

I haven't like, yeah, I've got this whole thing down. like I'm consistently learning and growing and making, you know, huge mistakes in order to learn and grow. And all of that's okay, right? It's about being kind and gentle and saying, okay, well, I learned this. That wasn't a great thing to do. Now I know what not to do. I now know what to do. Right. And it's okay. So it's, I guess, the reason I'm saying this, Alex, is because at which point does one become ready to say this needs to change and I need to change. and I need to make this change today like at which point are we willing to stop doing the same thing over and over again

and again when we're ready to make the change it's baby steps and it's sorry my mind's going all over the place but it's so true what you're saying is like for me like I feel like I'm doing all of this stuff for other people do you know what I mean I feel like I'm but actually I'm not doing anyone else really that much good

because this whole time I'm kind of thinking about myself and... It's the ego thing that Jack said. Totally, yeah, and it is, it, it, it, it's so much thinking that goes up, like, what I'm trying to say is even I'm sick of myself, do you know what I mean? But that's what I'm sick of myself and my shit, I'm sick of it, because it's like, like, why are you going over this 50 times in your head? It's a great place to be. It's stupid, it's a great place to be, that is the beginning of the rebirth in my opinion. That was literally the day that I just for me. was like, I sat there and I decided I literally had a moment and I was just like,

I can't do this to myself anymore. And I'd always played the victim, always, always, always, and it was always, always everybody else's fault. And yes, I can still, if I want, find a way to frame it as being somebody else's fault. But ultimately, I was the one that sat there and let the same thing whack me over their head 50 million times in a row. I'm like, I'm going to move now. And so that's where the work comes in, right?

And, you know, of looking at your part, looking at what's triggering you, looking at why you can't say no looking at you right and this is and that's if you want to have a happy life yeah and no it's perfect right everyone struggles with something yeah yeah but if you want to do the work and you want to make the changes it's one day at a time how do I make this change what do do I do but you can also do a bad thing and not be a bad person like I think a lot of people pleases really struggle with that like feeling like if they do if they fuck up one time then they're really bad people so so much of what they do it's like they don't want to fuck up or say anything or whatever and it's like we don't give ourselves a break at all and it's like you're actually

not like good people do bad things and sometimes it's an accident sometimes it's on purpose we learn or we don't but you have to move on at some point you just have to be like okay but I'm just going to choose to be nice to myself now I'm just going to choose that I'm just going to forgive myself for this bad thing that I did 50 years ago and you know like I'm just going to keep trying to be a good person and if I get it wrong I get it wrong but then I'll get up and try again yeah and where do you put your importance like you know is what this person thinks about me more important than what I think about me. It's okay that

they have a different thought process around me because everyone has different thoughts but why should it be more important than what I think about me? And that's the thing to think about right. Why should what M thinks about you be more important than what you think about you?

Why should it be? And there are some people that I put on a pedestal before this before, before Jack that I would and I would like deliberately and they'd be like friends and people that I'd like met on line or whatever like and i'd be like oh my god there's so much more than me and like i would always and i think this i think this is quite common in like friend groups particularly for girls but like it's the mean girl thing right and there's always like a regina like there's always like the

one and we'd hold what she said in a much higher regard than anything we ever had to say and i would but it wasn't that what she said was more important i was literally putting myself underneath her i was like walking up to her eye to i and then i'd just sit down and then i'd let myself be spoken down to and now I'm just like why we're doing this like why is what you say more important than what I say it's really weird like now I look back at so many of my relationships I'm like well that was weird I'm not going to do that anymore but are we born people pleases this is what I'm trying to like figure out my head oh most people people people it really depends on so many different factors it's you know the nature nurture conversation

it's your personality it's how you got brought up it's as I said before your map of the world? So, you know, is it, what have you learnt from your mum? What have you learned from your dad? What have you learned from your grandparents? What have you learned from your grandparents? What if you learn from your culture? What if you learn from your religion? Right? And the list goes on. And so there's so many different factors into this. And some people are not brought up like that. They're like, okay, well, you do you and I'll do me. And some people are chronic people pleases. And some people are really, you know, nervous about their body all day. And Some people are really nervous about what they consider to be success to be.

You know, and there's so much that goes on. And what's important to remember is we're all different. And if we know that something isn't working for us or we are doing things that are not healthy for us and we are sick of ourselves doing that thing, I'm going to say, reach out and get help. Because it doesn't have to be, you know, deep, deep seated, you know, opening Pandora's box and what am I going to find? It doesn't have to be that. It can just simply be, you know, some coaching or it can be some therapy or it can be a bit of this

and just work on that one thing, right? But you owe it to yourself to do that. Yeah, totally. Because life's too short. And the difference in well-being, at least to me, looks very clear between, you know, having boundaries and just sort of living and authentic life, as you say,

and being a chronic people please are. like the difference in well-being seems vastly different. Well, because you're not living in line to your soul. Yeah. You know, I don't want to get too deep on the spiritual side here. But, you know, I need to make my soul happy. And my soul knows when I'm doing things, certainly did know when it was doing things. When I wasn't being true to myself.

And when I listen to that, you know, I'm living in a peaceful way. But when I'm going, oh, I should have already said, no, I don't really want to. My soul's not happy because it knows I'm not. like taking care of it. I also don't think it makes you a great person to be around because if you go to a place that you don't want to be at... Yeah, you're miserable. Yeah, but you will feel that, right?

Yeah, it's just end up being a bit shitty to your friends. Like, I noticed with myself, I'm like, I resent you for something I've done. Like, if I said, like, I said to you last time, like, if I say yes to coming to your house for dinner, even though I don't want to go, I get annoyed with you for inviting me for dinner, which is a horrible thing to do

because it's so nice for you to invite me. But because I'm annoyed with myself, I get annoyed with you. And that's just a toxic situation. And that's resentment right there. Resentment is really, really resentment is I haven't said no. Yeah. It's got married to anyone else. So that's how friendships are probably benefit.

Because then when you do go and see the person that you has invited you over, you're going because you actually want to go. So you have a much better time. And remember also this is all about balance, right? Like if you're in relationships, it's about compromise. Sometimes you might have to say no. But sorry, you might have to say yes. when you really want to say in it like there is no like perfect picture of a boundary of life you know let's get that clear but fundamentally you want to be living in a way where you are taking care of yourself pretty much all the time yeah right

pretty much all the time and a healthy relationship would let you do both right yeah i have a friend i went to school with her and she's always been like very remarkable to me she doesn't care how anyone thinks about her and never has doesn't care she doesn't care what people think about what she wears how she looks how she behaves, or she acts. She doesn't like someone, she doesn't, she doesn't, she's just like, she wouldn't even pretend. Right. And I've always been, like, simultaneously in awe of her, but at the same time thinking, I can't have it be like that.

But actually, she lives just a very happy, I don't want to say simple life, because that, that sounds patronising. Well, she's happy because she's true to herself. Yeah, yeah. But she's a simple life. Yeah. As in, well, yeah. But she's been different from you, right?

She's got the same brain. both got the brain, right? And so how she thinks, it's all about her head, how she thinks, which is different from how you think. So what we know is if she's thinking that way,

you can too. Yeah. Right? And I don't think any less of her for it. Of course you don't know how she is. She's going to have a mohawk and like, I know.

Like, I want to do you bitch think about me. I'm like, hi Alex, do you remember me? Hi, and she'll be like, I can't, I'm busy now. Yeah. But that's right. I don't like, I don't care.

I'm afraid to the monster. Yeah. guys we have to yes we have to wrap up that how was that so good I feel like I wanted to end on like a general question pretend this whole episode wasn't about me

but it's too little too late so I'll just say thank you very much that was brilliant it's a pleasure and you know just be kind to yourself be nice to yourself and start to practice that's what I'm going to say and I think this episode is going to be

hugely beneficial for every well for a lot of people listening because there are a lot of people pieces in this world that's great um your book is still out still available to buy my book is still out how to do you how to do you amazon it's on audio as well audio book which was exhausting we do an audio book it's like it took don't tell her that she's got to do hers next week okay i won't say that i can am i don't love it but you just don't realize when you're using your voice all the time i must have

gone through like 27 hot lemon and honies and also in my school i've got the life pass so there's courses you can do on that which will help you get your mind you know strong and we'll put everything in the show notes. Yeah, you're also on Instagram and we love your Instagram post. It's Jacqueline underscore Hurst. Yeah, it's Jacqueline underscore Hirst, underscore.

Yeah, darling. And I love your videos on Instagram. I find them very helpful. They always come at just the right time. Thank you. Brilliant. Yeah, it matters. It does.

See you next time. Welcome back. I hope you all enjoyed our therapy. I stopped crying. I have an embarrassing story to welcome us back with Hi, girls.

First off, I freaking love your podcast. I've loved so hard. I've never laughed so hard. The episode with Aber Davies was gold. Thank you. I have an embarrassing story to share, but not even my husband knows. I was on a third date in London about 10 years ago,

and my date and I had left dinner and were walking around Marilabone. We were having such a nice conversation that we ended up walking a really long time, and I started really, really, really having to pee. When I couldn't stand it anymore, I told it and I had to pee, and we tried to find somewhere open,

but everywhere was closed. So we started to walk really fast back to my apartment. I'd never had to be so bad in my life before, and before I knew what was happening, I'd full on peered in my pants. I obviously didn't tell him what was going on, but he noticed and said, wow, we're walking a lot slower now

because obviously the urgency was gone. Fortunately, I was wearing a long coat and boots, so I don't think he noticed, but oh God, I still remember the feeling of walking in my own piss-filled boots. never dated him again because I was so embarrassed. Oh bless her. Piss filled boots. Piss filled boots. It just reminded me someone told me a story. She shut herself because she can get back from the train station in time and she had boots on and she just, like the pier were gone in their boots. So she had to just stand in the shower with her boots and trousers on and just like just standing there for a long time. I know this person

and I've got some questions to us before the next podcast. I think she diaried. Yeah, but what trousers are you wearing that it slips all the way down? You can't do that in jeans. Do you know what I mean? And if you're wearing trousers like I'm wearing,

listener, they're like the tailored, like they're like wide leg jeans. Surely if everything's going to shoot out the bottom wants to say it's going to land in your boot and not just like on the floor next to your boot. Do you know what I mean? I didn't quite understand, but she actually had to get in the shower

with her boots on and their trousers and just on there for a really long time. The logistics. unless you're wearing like those trousers that look like fire billows, you know, in the olden days when they had to like poof a flower, a fire, the ones that come in at the bottom. Like if you're wearing those, then I get it. But why would you be wearing those first of all?

And second of all, why would you be wearing those with boots? Also, throwback, this is the same girl that sold the leggings on Deepop that she shot herself in. She shows herself all the time and she's one of my prettiest friends and I always think this to myself, I always think, I love this. because when I was younger I used to compare like if I well actually I've really only very recently grown out of it but if I saw somebody beautiful like on the train or the tube or like anyway I'm public I'd be like and I'd instantly compare myself for their entire life and I'd think oh my god I bet your flat's amazing and I bet like your boyfriend loves you and I bet you've got loads of friends and like I just wish I was you like I do that all the time I'd like project this like perfect life onto someone that was pretty because that's what I thought the idea was you know see me healthy anyway she'd be one of those people that I'd have looked at like she's just so And I'd have looked at her like on the platform at Clapham Junction and I'd have been like, I bet she's got her shit together when in actual fact she had shit in her boots.

Literally shit in her boots. It's mainly redress my whole life because I'm like if even the fittest people I know can walk home with shit in their boots. Yeah. That's a psychological phenomenon that the halo effect is called when people that you, people that are beautiful, you think that they're kinder and cleverer than they're. people who are not beautiful is that crazy and that's but i yeah i that makes so much sense i'm pleased it's got a name i've done that to everybody and and and she really she she whacked her own halo off by telling me she had shit in her

shitting her shoes to be honest yeah it's not funny absolutely great yeah i think that's really i think that's all grounded i like that yeah yeah yeah proud stay humble stay humble. Keep pissing your shoes. That's hilarious by the way. Have you, have I asked you before? Have you, have you, have you, have you, have you? Loads and loads and loads. Yeah, I I once pissed myself on a tennis court. How? Yeah. Um, big serve. It was, no, I was, we were playing doubles and I was with my mate and she made me laugh and it was just zero control. We were wearing white. Everywhere. I was wearing, uh, I was wearing, oh, this makes someone comes on. I don't know. Should I just say it? Yeah. I was wearing like my, like a white tennis

skirt and there was just no hiding. I literally just pissed myself. Oh my God. But I was like, what do I do? Like what do I do? And she knows, she obviously noticed. Everyone noticed, but we just acted like nothing had happened. No, you didn't. Yeah, we did. We just kept playing. So I just carried on. I just, I just, carried on. Yeah, I just carried on. Yeah. You pissed yourself? Everybody saw and he just carried on playing tennis. Yeah. Yeah. What? We were in a competition. Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What? I know.

Are you good at tennis? No, no. Are you actually good at tennis? Yeah, yeah. I feel like you have to be a certain calibre of tennis to piss yourself and continue playing. Like, I think my absence on the court would be fine. Like, you've got to be pretty good to want to know you need to stay there even though you've got piss everywhere. Yeah, it was like a championship.

I couldn't just like, sorry, I've pissed myself. You play championship tennis and you, there's so much to unpack here. You know, like, not like Wimbled, obviously, not like Wimbledon Championship. Obviously not, you're an influencer now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, clearly. Oh my God, you play good a tennis. Yeah, yeah. This is a huge surprise to me.

A captain, tennis captain. Now, can someone explain to me, how are you a tennis captain? Because there's only two of you. It's bad, it's a, it's a, no, no, of my school. Like, that was, like, I was never good enough to be like a prefect or anything else. But I was tennis, I was like tennis captain. Wow, God, I wouldn't have called it. You think that I'm terrible at sports, don't you?

Kind of, yeah. Guys, who do you think we'd win in a fight, a physical... Daisy, who do you think we'd win in a physical fight between me? Again, you asked Jacqueline in this interview. We've been asking quite a lot of people. We came up on the hen-due. Basically, the reason I had to do a shot of tequila, on Saturday morning I had to do a shot of tequila for breakfast

because we were playing catch with a lemon. And I'm quite good at catching. and I just I don't know what it is about you I just didn't think you'd be that good at catching no offense well she's good at tennis well I didn't know that I am like weirdly very very very strong and like built very naturally very muskily

so I think I'd be stronger than you I competed in swimming as well what the fuck yeah yeah I competed in swimming that was more than tennis but swimming was when I was younger and then I just hated doing it I just hate because I was being pushed and pushed and I hated it so I went on to tennis but swimming was like

and I think from swimming because I did butterfly stroke as well what so I think my muscles never blowing your mind blowing my mind she's really good at tennis she's really good at the butterfly okay what else what else what else I forgot no that's it but I think my muscles never really went down from there so I'm very like hench yeah yeah interesting yeah see I was like the kid that was like off games every single week because I always had a period or something wrong with me fake note from my mom I think I actually think you would win because I think you'd be more vicious than me. Yeah, I think that's good. And I also, I could probably, like, I don't tire.

Like, I am like a dog like that. I think I could just run laps around you and just wait for you to like, like, I think if it was like one round, I'd be out. You'd kill me. But I think if we could keep going. So like, I think I would also be very distracting and irritating. That's the thing. Because I feel, yeah, because like in tennis, my weakness was always that I didn't, uh, like I didn't get to the net. I was lazy, basically. Like I loved baseline playing, but like getting to the net, I was like, oh, I can't be asked, which is where I feel like, like, in a fight, you'd be like, fight me in that corner. I'm like, fight me in that corner.

Yeah, like, fight me here, like, fight me in this exact spot I'm not moving. So all I'd have to do is like run away from you. Literally, yeah, so I think you'd win. Interesting, right, can we put this to the listeners, please? Like, we could have gloves on. But I'm quite good at box, I think I could, I think I'm, I think I could win there, sorry, no fence. Quite good boxing.

Hmm. What? What else? Is she not, this, what else are you good at? No, that's it. Absolutely it. You said that was it before you said boxing? That is it. Like I'm running a fucking hate it. No, nothing. Nothing else. Right. Right. Well, I have some work to do. I'm terrible at team sports. Terrible. Hated it. Hated it. Maybe my skin crawl, made me want to run away. Couldn't stand it.

Why? Is it the pressure? Because I'm fundamentally very selfish. No, the pressure. Like, everyone's looking at you like, don't drop the ball. Like, get the ball in the hoop. Oh, because you were also very good at netball in the arcade. No. No. I hate it. you're good at it though no I wasn't yes he was I hate that yeah I didn't no I like hockey couldn't stand that it just yeah the pressure you've actually really really given me some food for thought but I really would like to know what the what the listeners think I bet you were good at team games no I wasn't good at any games okay I wasn't good at anything I've only I only very recently came to exercise when like running and weights now yeah yeah yeah I'm good now like I

literally I started cycling when I was 18 and then that was like the first and I got into fitness and it's kind of like snowballed from there. But I wasn't, I'm not, yeah, I'm all right. I've recently started playing tennis. Well, I'm recently slightly. I played tennis about two weeks ago. You were good. Yeah, no, it's all right.

I was so right. Yeah, really good. But I'm incredibly inconsistent and I feel like that's kind of like my mantra for life. Like I'm quite an inconsistent being. So I don't think anybody would want to count on me. Because if I showed up on a good day, you'd be like a fucking a team player. But then if I show up on a bad day, it's just, it's curtains, you know, what are you done for.

And no one's going to take that. risk with their lives which is fair enough so no I'm not a good team player which is why I like running because I can just do it on my own and I don't yeah the same same like stuff I could do with my own no pressure from anyone else yeah just leave me okay anyway we've got a little is it just me is it just me and then we will leave you to it to go and process hey girls the question who's gonna win in a fight think carefully think long and heart hey girls love the pod is it just me that finds it impossible not to take criticisms you

receive from work or general criticism from close ones personally, as a perfectionist and sensitive person, any criticism I receive eats me up inside for days and makes me question whether I even know myself anymore. I know it shouldn't be something that affects me as much as it does, but it's just the default for my mind. Any tips would be appreciated. I actually really hope this episode has been helpful for you with that in mind. I know we didn't fully go into it and definitely when we get Jack back, we can definitely do one about criticism. Yeah. But I feel, I hope today's been helpful. The sentiment is spot on there. Like what we were talking about with Jack saying about like how

you kind of have a choice to take that criticism and let it make you feel bad about yourself or let it water off the ducts back. Easier said than done, 100% because that's, yeah, as you've There are still some things though that like some quotes that I really, really hold on to with this and one of them, I think Matt Haig says it quite a lot, but it's like don't take criticism from somebody you wouldn't go to for advice. And I keep that really specific to things because it's like sometimes that you can take criticism, like let's say, for example, it's your mom that was criticising you. You can't use that as a blank. expression because you probably would go to your mum for advice for some shit but I think like

okay so someone's criticizing your outfits I'm like but I but it'll be someone that dress is absolutely appallingly so I'm like why am I taking this from you I wouldn't come to you and ask you how to dress nicely yeah but again it's part of people please so what if it's okay so I think because this girl's saying like close friends that she's like close people give criticism so what if it's someone that you would go to for advice and they give you criticism like how like and you then really struggle with that criticism so I think you still have a choice as to whether or not you want to take it personally and I think like okay so criticise me hit me I am actually really good at taking criticism now which is a remarkable

I hate your blazer right that is and actually that's a really good example because first all it's a fantastic fucking blazer yeah but second of it I need but also Alex dresses really well so I would if if you said that to me that would be an example for me where I would That's annoying because I would have gone to you for criticism, for advice, sorry. But on that choice, I'm like, but I like this blazer. Yeah. And then you just have to weigh up. It's like, does her opinion mean more than mine?

Like, does it? And ultimately, it's what we were talking about with Jack. It's like, do I really want to give, like, all of my power to this person for this one passing comment? And also, like, maybe they hate the blazer because they don't like pink. Maybe they hate the blazer because they're in a foul mood. Maybe they hate the blazer because they don't like shoulder pads because they're some cretine. I don't know. Like, you know, there's so many reasons why somebody, and I really believe that it's so much of this, it's misogyny and it's like the way that women have been conditioned to be appealing and palatable and perfect for everybody.

So obviously we take criticism as a personal, a really personal thing because if you don't like this blazer, I'm like, oh, what the fuck did I get dressed for then? Because everybody has to like my outfit, otherwise what's the point of wearing it? Take it off, take it off. Yeah, exactly. Burn it. Fuck this blazer. but actually I like the blazer and that is enough and ultimately that's all you ever have in your life is your own assurance and if someone gives you criticism and you think fair enough actually because sometimes that's the case like if you just do something terribly like I don't know like you just did a shit piece of work and someone's like that was shit and if my opinion aligns with their opinion I'm like fair but if my opinion doesn't align it doesn't mean that their opinion's right doesn't mean my opinion's wrong two opinions exist and to me right my opinion is opinion is the most important. To you, yours is. You hate my blazer. I love my blazer.

Who's the blazer on? Me. Who's looking at it? You. Who can do something about this? You turn away. Turn away. And that's not on me. I'm going to keep wearing my fucking stunning blazer. It's so true. Yeah. And I do think that's a good point. Like, it's good to assess the criticism. Like, you know, maybe that's a different thing sometimes I just say, like, I hate your outfit. They're just being a bit of twat. But like, with criticism, like, about your work, I think this girl's example was, like, safe for that. Like, it's good to assess it. and evaluate it and be like, is there anything I need to actually take from this?

And, you know, like, but also it's not personal. But yeah. The work that you make isn't a reflection of you as a person. Like what you did last Tuesday afternoon when you were a bit tired because you had a big lunch. Like that's not you as a person just because you've done one bad, potentially one bad piece of work. It doesn't make you a bad person.

Yeah. You've just done one not great job. No biggie. And I think what's important to remember what helps me to remember is because I used to think, if anyone ever criticised my work, I used to think it was the end of the world. and think that everyone was talking about me

everyone was talking about a terrible piece of work but actually they don't care the person that said it to you doesn't care they'll say it and they'll probably never think about it again and it's really not a big deal and either you fix it or you don't and I think I really really believe

if you criticise a man's work and generally speaking if me and Alex me and my Alex said the same piece of work and we both sent it off and mine came back and they were like love this but I have some amendment I would take that more personally than if his boss replied to him saying

this is a piece of fucking shit burn it and start again he'd be like okay fair enough and me I'm like a few of papers what do you mean a few of members and it's like we because we are

conditioned to make it everybody's lives easier make everything perfect and do everything absolutely to the tea understand the bar for women is higher and I do think we are expected to do more

so we do take criticism more and I don't think it's your fault but I also don't think it has to be personal because your opinion of yourself is the most important thing and just because somebody's an opinion about you it doesn't mean that's what you are yeah that's how we'll end

this solid jack will come back though and we'll do something about about about critics yeah jack lives here now yeah this is a three-way in front of long um guys thank you so much for listening thank you fun awkward sign i never know how to sign off um thank you for being here we love you we really really do um we've got great oh great episode next week for world mental health day. So excited to you to hear it. And we love you and thanks for listening and hopefully my hangover will have gone by next Monday. Thank you. All right. See you later. Bye.