Should I Delete That? - Did weight gain change my relationship? with Tally Rye

Episode Date: April 13, 2025

If you want to postiviely reframe the narrative of weight gain - this is the episode for you! Today, we’re speaking to the personal trainer, intuitive movement coach, content creator and podcaster Tally Rye. Tally shares her powerful journey of healing her relationship with her body image, food, and exercise. She opens up about moving away from the relentless pursuit of thinness and embracing a more compassionate, balanced approach to health and self-worth.We dive into the positives of weight gain, how it’s impacted Tally’s life for the better, and how she navigates conversations with people who don’t quite see it the same way.This conversation was recorded back in October 2024 as part of our body image series - so if you haven’t listened to that yet, head back and explore more insights from Tally and other incredible guests diving deep into all things body image.Follow @tallyrye on InstagramRead more about all of Tally’s work hereIf you would like to get in touch - you can email us on [e-mail] us on Instagram:@shouldideletethat@em_clarkson@alexlight_ldnShould I Delete That is produced by Faye LawrenceStudio Manager: Dex RoyVideo Editor: Celia GomezSocial Media Manager: Emma-Kirsty FraserMusic: Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

People genuinely don't believe that my husband loves me because I gained weight in our relationship. Hello, and welcome back to Should I Delete That? I'm M Clarkson. And I'm Alex Light. And this week we are talking to the incredible Talley Rye. She's a personal trainer, intuitive movement coach, content creator and podcaster. In this conversation, Talley tells us how she healed her body image and moved on from a toxic relationship with food and exercise. to stop chasing thinness. We discuss all the positives of weight gain that Talley has experienced

and the benefits that it has given her in her life. And we also chatted about how she navigates the opinions of people who don't quite see it the same way or perhaps understand it, including the assumptions made about her so-called mixed weight relationship and how some people can't believe that her husband still loves her after she gained weight. We recorded this back in October last year while we were recording our body image series. If you haven't listened to it yet, you can go back to that series to hear more from Talley and loads of other brilliant guests about all aspects of body image.

But for now, here's Talley. Hello, Talley. Hi. We've talked about everything this morning. I love that we have the audacity to say hi, hi, Tally. It hasn't been an hour and a half of just gabbing away. By the time I'd been in this room for 12 minutes, we'd literally diagnosed every member of our family. with every thing we could think of.

It's been an oversharey kind of day. Oh, it has. We've recorded three podcasts worth of content already. Literally. We didn't press the button. I'm so excited that you're here. There's so much, I can't believe we've never had you on before, because there's so much alignment,

and there's so much crossover, and there's so much to talk to you about. But the reason that I leapt out my skin with excitement of the prospect was you made a real recently, real post. And you did some stories. And it was so interesting about mixed-weight relationships. Yes. And I was just so fascinated.

And we didn't need to start talking about that at the beginning because there's your whole life and whatever we can get into first. But I thought your way of handling that conversation was so brave because you really put yourself out there. People sent, like people did not hold back with their projections and opinions. And you shared them all. And I was reading them like, well, brave. Like, that you put yourself up for this conversation.

it was so cool. People genuinely don't believe that my husband loves me because I gained weight in our relationship and I think they really, and not everyone, most people I think I was super, super hopeful, but there's definitely people who have made it known to me that they just can't wrap their head around the fact that he might be okay with it, which it really, I actually almost resent saying the phrase that like, oh, he might be okay with it. Like, it should, I should you having to get a man's approval on my body full stop like I hate that I hate the the feeling the sentiment of that but yeah I gained weight in a relationship that is over I've been in a relationship with Jack for over 10 years and that seems to upset people that we're still together

and we actually got married at the biggest I've ever been that he's known me at and that seems to confuse people. And I don't take that as something that they're confused about me and my life. I sadly think that they probably experienced a situation with someone in their life that could never be in that scenario, which makes me really sad. Yeah. Yeah, it felt like that in the content that you were sharing and the messages that you were sharing. And I was really encouraged the way you were sharing it didn't feel like,

which you would have had every right to go, all of you can get fucked. like share it in the kind of like these are the rudest messages I've ever had. But that's my first thought. Well, good. And then I like have to just have a bit of empathy and put myself in those people's situation. And I go, oh, this isn't even about me. This is not about me or my life. I'm, this is about an experience they've had or a feeling that they have had.

And I'm just a mirror to them. And sadly, they don't like the reflection back. The way you framed it like that. And that's kind of the conversation that I wanted to have on the back of it was, you're right, it's not about you and Jack. You know, that's between you and you and it's like no biggie.

But it was really interesting. And actually, of course, we see it societally. I always think this about Pierce Brosman's wife. Like the way that everybody always speaks about her. Yeah. It's like. That makes me laugh. So Jack, my husband, biggest James Bond fan ever.

Who's his favourite? Pierce Brosman. Obviously. And then I'm so in love with Pierce Brosman. I see the post come up about that couple so much. And I literally show them to him. I'm like, See, look, Pierce Brunton's like a good guy.

But I also hate the fact that I think he's a good guy because he's with someone who just isn't. Of course he's a good guy. He's a good guy because he's a good guy because it's a good guy because it's Pierce Brosson. Yeah. Because I'm in love with Pierce. Is he your celebrity hall? I'm literally so in love with him.

Really? Okay, okay. Okay. Right. Pierce Bronson is hers. Steve Carrell's mine. Which one would you? Which one would you? What out of those two?

Yeah. Well, out of those two. Yeah. Well, obviously. All right, moving on. Yeah, but Steve Carrows has aged like fine wine. He really has. He's just lovely.

He's like getting better with age. Isn't he? Yeah. This is not the point. Sorry. Anyway, we digress. What does Jack think about this conversation? Your husband, Jack, think about this conversation.

Is he just like, why are these people talking about me? Or like putting words in my mouth, I guess. Yeah, totally. You know, like presuming that he's not comfortable with you having gained weight during your relationship. Well, I would say in the beginning of our relationship, I met him. I was much smaller than I am now and I've probably gained, I don't know, four or five dress sizes since we met over a 10 year period but when I met him I was a really disordered place with food and exercise. I have why orthorexia where I was really obsessed with eating healthy and

specifically really exercising a lot and when he met me like he pretended he was into all that stuff too like he was into fitness and he was into healthy food like he he's not particularly he like sport like he came to the gym with me early on that's so sweet though but he came to the gym with me early on and I remember like three years in we went to the gym and I was a personal trainer by that point and I started like personal training him kind of couldn't help it and he was like I actually hate this it was the one time we ever really probably like he got really annoyed at me and he was like actually I actually hate the gym and I was like I'm not being alive But we've moved on.

We've moved past that. But yeah, when he met me, I was in just a completely different person. And my body was completely different. And I was, you know, becoming a personal trainer. I was just graduating drama school. And I was really still in the thick of that mindset. My life revolved around food and exercise. Over the 10 years, that has been a massive kind of healing journey for me.

And I'm so much more fun now. Our life is way more spontaneous. you know, we will get a Chinese takeaway every now and then, which was never, never, ever an option. We could, I don't know, go out for dinner and do you want to get a start of main dessert? Yeah, like, whereas like I would be like, right, we're going to this place where I've planned, I've looked it up, you know, there's so much more spontaneity, freedom, fun in our relationship. And I think also what shocks people is that as I've gained weight, I've actually got more comfortable and confident in my body. And I'm way more comfortable naked now than I

ever was at my smallest. Because at my smallest, I was so hyper-fixated on what I look like. I'm so conscious of every angle and fold of my skin or role I might have that kind of now, like, I don't care. And that is way more fun. I think for him, he's like, there's only been benefits to this to you gaining weight in the sense of like, it's only been a, a positive on our relationship like we are well I'm like I said more relaxed more fun we're closer than ever more naked than ever well we're married now so maybe less not I'm joking um yeah like we're just so much more ourselves and I think that obviously has manifested itself externally for me in a way but also like internally as well um in terms of just how much more chilled I am and I think

he ultimately at this point just loves me as a person and the shell is a bonus Jack's also very like conventionally good-lucky well at least I think so and this is my own insecurity because I always felt like when even as a teenager you know it's not too

similar to the size I am now so I was always kind of felt like oh I don't know never never the never the girl that got the guy kind of thing as a teenager and so I suppose my own insecurity is always like oh people always think he's better looking than me anyway like what's he doing with me

kind of thing which is my own insecurity that's my own shit but I just I feel less and less like that now but that's still that thought will still creep in every now and then you know if we go to went to a wedding recently and it was full of a ton of people he works with they've never met me before

and they've heard all about this person and you know there's a part of my brain that's like oh I want to look good for these people to think that Jack's with a you know a beautiful wife but there's also the other part of me that's like Talley you're absolutely fine as you are and I don't know about you guys but it's still an internal struggle like it's not I'm not saying I've got it all figured out but I just think the part of my brain that wants to say like

oh you're not good enough or you should look a different way for your husband or whatever else like that is now much quieter than it has been but it's still there but yeah I don't know I think it's so interesting how people bypass or don't even consider all of that good stuff that you've gained in, you know, throughout that 10 year journey and throughout your weight gain, all that good stuff that you've gained, it doesn't, that doesn't even matter. It's just like, oh, but you look different. You know? Yeah. People can't get past the weight. Yeah. Whereas like, I see the full picture. And I think social media is really tough in that respect. Because it's so image-led. It's so image-focused. So people see your body. Like someone messaged me the other day and said, I used to follow you and I remember during COVID you were gaining weight and it actually made me feel really good about myself because you were gaining weight. And she's like, I've reflected on that and I've realized that's something I needed to work on

and actually I'm in a much better place with X, Y, Z. I love those conversations. That's great. I think a lot of people, I don't know if a lot of people are able to have that dialogue. But I understand that like, oh, that none of that had anything to do. do with me as a person that was just all a phase that person was going through and a growth journey that they needed to go through because I know I could have been that person at 20 like I could have thought to myself oh that person's gaining away you know I would have had those

thoughts but I'm not having them now necessarily you know and even if I am I'm like and so what like you don't you just never know the full picture do you yeah social media is so funny with these things because they do just see that snapshot and they don't see your full life i keep thinking about this with the um current england squad like have you seen the like videos that people keep sharing of their partners it wasn't one of them bullied offline one of them was bullied off line because they've been like high school sweethearts and they'd had yeah dechler rice yeah decton rice yeah and it kind of feels like that i think we've really lost because you're right if you ask a man and this really heteronormative if you ask a person who do you what who do you want to

spend your life with like what do you how does what does your life look like it's like well it's fun and we'll go out to eat and we'll like slob on the sofa together on saturdays and hopefully we'll have sex and then you know like we'll go and hang out with our mates and we'll drink pints and like the life that you want with a person and we've got this stupid trope from like the movies where you've got this like the Megan Fox type who can do it all yeah um yeah exactly we've had like the big pick me energy kind of throughout our childhoods which is like inevitably shaped this expectation that perhaps yeah exactly yeah she's so fun she just she just she even everything yeah um but i think realistically within most relationships people hopefully do choose

the person over the shell of the person well there's only so far that being attracted to the physical shell of a person can take you right there's only so far and we all know people that like we know are like conventionally very good looking but we could never actually like fancy them or be in love with them because they just don't fit us you know it's only so far that can take you but if we look at like the the hype around bridgeton we did an episode about that about nicola yes yes yes and you know she that was like deemed a mixed weight relationship and that was like made headlines it was like it was in Forbes it was like It was really crazy.

No, that's like a whole thing. And I even saw recently in the past week or so that she was saying how like, I'm just like the average size of a UK woman. I'm not even, I don't, I don't want to put words in her mouth because I don't want to say if she said she was plus size or not. I have a feeling she's like. She said she was smaller than the UK average. Yeah.

So she's, I don't know, maybe it's probably similar size to me. I don't know. and about a UK 1416 and yeah that's wild that it's used to that point of the press all of the press surrounding that season of Bridgeton all of it

centred around her body her weight and she's not even the size of an average UK woman weirdest thing isn't it but it's interesting that it's it doesn't it it it's not such a big deal when it's the man who's bigger oh no of course not hell no

I can think of a thousand countless examples literally think of a thousand mixed weight relationships on the other side that aren't ever been like no one's ever mentioned like James Corden's wife for example because it's just completely irrelevant I wanted to say as well I think early in our relationship like Jack and I had conversations about it because he certainly had views around bodies and weight that he has massively evolved away from now like it hasn't been like constantly all amazing like when we met he was 21 I was 23 like we were young we were kids. Oh, you're the older woman as well. I love this. Good for you. And yeah,

I think he certainly, like we had conversations and I had views about, around bodies and weight and everything else that I certainly don't hold now. And so does he. And I think we've been on that kind of learning process together and I've included him in the kind of journey I've gone on in how I view myself, how I view other people's bodies. And I think he's really wants to understand it and he wants to have conversations with me. I think one thing I do find with people interact with me with me online are the amount of people in relationships where they are given a bit of an ultimatum or they are given the comment of like, well, I just don't find you attractive anymore because you've gained weight or, you know, you need to lose weight otherwise

I can't be with you. And as painful and as heartbreaking as that is they're here, I'm I personally think that is the major red flag you need to know that this relationship is sadly not the one because the person that truly loves and respects you loves you as we've been talking about and it isn't dependent on your appearance. And if I think of all the reasons I married Jack, I said, yeah, he's obviously a good looking guy, but like that is so secondary to me. Like who he is as a person is who I married and he is my best friend. And that is the most important thing to me. And it sounds really harsh and it's the kind of conversations I would not necessarily want to be having in DMs because I think it's such a personal thing for a stranger to comment on a relationship. But those are signs to me that either it's something that you really have to have really honest,

vulnerable conversations around or maybe that's the sign that that isn't the relationship. I don't know. I think it's really important that you acknowledge that it's not as easy. Well, that it hasn't always been super, like, plain sailing with Jack around body and that he had his own things around body image to address as well. Because I do think we do a disservice if we just sugarcoat it and say, you know, if he has any feelings around bigger bodies, like, that's it, he's gone. Like, he's not for you.

And because we do, we all have these, like, we all have this, like, bias. And it needs addressing. And I think what's important is their willingness to address it. and to really change their minds on it rather than just like they should be born with this idea that... Because none of us are. No, none of us are. We all have to work at it.

And it is really hard. I mean, I'm not going to be some relationship guru. Like, please don't think of me as that person at all. But I think one of the things I have learned over the last 10 years is just like the honest, vulnerable conversations, especially around topics like this. are really needed and when people say to me like oh you know my boyfriend said this or my husband said that and like you need to have an honest conversation like it is not for me to say you should do

this that or the other but if there's one thing you should do it's just let them know how that makes you feel when you hear that I think that's really important because it I don't think people realise the impact I don't think men necessarily realize the impact of what they're saying um to women No way No way Like my husband grew up Like he's an only child

And he grew up Like he's just had a I don't know He's had a body That's always been A body Yeah It's just he looks

He looks the same as he did When he was 21 Yeah And Alex goes between Being very fit And doing his iron man stuff Where he's like Absolutely jacked

And then he does Like a couple of years Where he doesn't do anything And then like Doesn't really change that much Like it's like slightly softer But like It's fascinating

His build up but he's got no idea when he says stuff sometimes I'm like like dagger but he'll make an observation and I'm like what do you mean you've made an observation

how could you like it'll be yesterday I was like oh God I really feel like I've got really wide and he's like yeah yeah your hits are definitely wider and I looked at it

and I was like what's a twat how dare you and then I was like I'm eight most pregnant of course my hips have got wider don't they widen

for birth yeah he's saying it as a fact But it's really funny that on the back of like a fact or something that they, that it's so heteronormative, but like a male partner would say because they haven't grown up in the same environment as us at all. And we can be really hurt by their harmless observations.

But I do think it's interesting what you're saying about the ultimatum stuff. Yeah. Because that is the sign that like that sounds, I mean, that's bad. That's like this. I can't ever just, I can't find any justification for that.

as you were speaking, I couldn't. Yeah, I think if, I don't know, like I said, there's wider conversations to be had and deeper conversations to be had, but at the end of the day, if a relationship is founded on physical attraction only, then God knows what's going to, is in store for you for the rest of your life,

because you could be in an accident tomorrow and be disabled. You could, you know, your life will, your body will change for what, so many different reasons. male and female and once again i know heteronormative couples um here as the example but bodies change and they just do men and women they will get sagier they will get bigger yeah boobie's go downs recede yeah yeah exactly no i know and i think yeah and i think yeah except from steve carrell paul rudd or paul rudd he doesn't age yeah so weird yeah we call jack pool rudd because like he can be there like that yeah but

I just think, like, bodies are going to change and bodies are going to evolve. And I think, like, especially whatever feelings we have around bodies getting bigger or whatever, like, that is often a sign of, like, okay, I just need to do a bit of check of my own biases here. And, like, where's that coming from? And why did I learn that? And what's my fear around that? And actually, I always remember a poem by a woman called Nina Manelson. and it's, this is relevant. It's called like, I feel fat.

And she describes all these other feelings that you're feeling when you say you feel fat. And I think sometimes they feel like lonely, scared, worried. I feel unloved. I feel da-da-da. And often fat is a placeholder for so many different feelings that we're feeling. And I think sometimes as someone's saying in a relationship to you, I feel fat in a relationship or I'm worried.

you are too fat. Actually, also, what does that represent? What does that actually mean? I don't know if there's just a surface level. This is all about physical appearance. Like, what else is it? And sadly, I think diet culture teaches us to constantly look at someone's appearance as like the markers of everything going on in their lives.

And therefore, we don't necessarily have a vocabulary to say like, so for example, it might be like, I've, okay, not everyone who is depressed gains weight, but someone who is depressed might gain weight. They might be less active. They might start withdrawing. They might rely on food as a source of comfort. So then that partner might be making the comment of like you've gained weight. Maybe because it's easier to say that than it is to say, I'm worried about you. Like, I'm worried about you and like how are you feeling and because that's harder to hold space for, you know? I think there's, it's nuanced and complex, isn't it? And we love like just break up with them yeah the language yeah yeah and I think there's a lot

that's not helpful no it's hard so like I said there's definitely red flags there if people are trying to give that ultimatum conversation yeah but have a conversation yeah can we talk about your wedding yes you just got married congratulations thank you it's absolutely beautiful did you feel pressure to lose weight for your wedding? Obviously there is so much pressure around the big day and I'm using quotes here, looking your best. Which people automatically equate to being the thinest you've ever been and we see all those like bridal boot camp and people dropping literally tons of weight for their wedding. Did you feel any of that pressure or did you do you feel immune from it. I certainly felt the narrative around me. I think it's not just the pressure of weight,

it's the pressure of perfection, of like, of Botox, of perfect hair, of perfect skin, of perfect whatever. And, you know, I did do some beauty treatments before, but I really try to not get too bogged down in it. And I was, I didn't feel so much pressure around my weight because I think personally, I've just done a lot of work on like, kind of really, letting go of that noise but it's certainly there like I knew it was there you know my the dress shop would email and say you know don't you know if you are planning to lose weight for wedding like don't lose any more after this date because you know with fittings and stuff and but I went in on and you know my dress appointments I would just say to them yeah I'm just happy with my body as it is

so I just want the dress to be fitted to this body like I would just kind of just put that boundary in quite early on because I just didn't even want someone to like make a comment or or, you know what I mean, have a conversation. Did they seem surprised by that? Because I bet very few brides actually say that. They were like, oh, this, we love, like, love it. Amazing. Like, love this for you.

Yeah. But they were like, yeah, it's quite refreshing to hear that because, like, we don't hear that often. But, you know, people have messaged me since saying, like, oh, what did you say with the dress brain process? I'm like, just say it early. Like, I don't want to talk about my body in this process. Like, I just want to find a dress that fits me now.

And if my body changes, it changes because bodies change. But, like, I just want to feel good in whatever, you know, whatever shape my body takes at a time. The one thing I would say, both of you've been married, like, they make the dress to you. Like, it is to your measurements. And actually, on the day, I've never felt so amazing in something that is completely fitted for my body. Like, it wasn't too, I didn't want it too snug. I didn't want it too tight. I wanted to, I deliberately chose a dress.

I could sit down and I could breathe and I could eat in. And I felt amazing in it because it was, like, made for my body. So that felt really good One thing I would say looking back on is that perfection part It's like I've looked back on photos I've been like oh I should have done my makeup like that

or my hair's falling out at one point or like my hair's like not good And I've really found myself like naturally wanting to nitpick my hair and makeup like not my body but my hair and makeup because I think we're so bombarded

with like Pinterest perfect weddings of essentially models getting married and we don't I think often see like the average person they say for like I had a second dress by the time we got to the point of putting on a second dress I was I had already been sweating my ass off from dancing so my hair's wet basically it was up but it was like the front two pieces were like wet with sweat and I just and I had these visions of having like another second amazing look of like my hair and makeup but as weddings do it was running a bit late I didn't want to miss a single second of the dance floor.

I just literally wanted to chuck the dress onto it as quickly as can. Pin back the two bits of my hair, scrape it back and just get back downstairs and get to the danceful. Like that was my main priority. So, yeah, look at the photos and I'm like, oh, it doesn't look,

how I was envisioning. And then I think, no, Talley, just remember that moment how you felt. And we got our wedding photos through, you know, like the thousands to look through a couple of weeks ago.

And we're looking through them and I'm like, every time I was like, oh, your hair, oh, that. One thing that did annoy me is my necklace was put on, twisted. So it's been, like, bugging me. Every time I look at a picture, I can just see it's twisted. And I'm like, why are you going to go twisted? Like, that's so annoying.

But then once again, I'm like, Talley, like, it really didn't matter. Like, remember how you felt on that day, that moment? Like, I've never felt so present in my life and, like, wanting to truly soak something up that it doesn't matter. And I have to keep having this word with myself. I'm like, Talley, it was an amazing time. You had the best day of your life. You couldn't have got squeezed more out of that experience. Who gives a shit if your hair was falling out by the end of the night?

Who gives a shit if you're sweaty, if your makeup wasn't perfect? If you, you know, whatever. Like, that's actually not what it's about. But, oh my God. Because I still get, I don't know about you, but like I still get wedding content now, obviously. We're also going to a lot of weddings this year and being like, oh, you know, oh, I could have had that. I'm like, no, Talley, it's fine. But it is a constant conversation in my head.

Like, I'll be fine with it, but I do notice it, like, coming up, for sure. It's kind of amazing that you've been able to form such an incredible relationship with your body that you can still have this, like, obviously you've got perfectionism somewhere. Yes, it has a manifest in some way. Well, that's a kind of amazing thing. It's like, because we do all have these, like, things and these little, quirks and these parts of our personality and like yeah you can heal really big parts and that's really amazing and your testament to that and you've done that really publicly which is very very cool

over the last 10 years but obviously you do still have that predisposition to be super critical or to to be a perfectionist how have you been able to get to that place with your body whilst still harboring these traits or like holding other areas of your life to such a high standard um therapy for sure stunning um we love therapy yes i think also i did a lot of i did a lot of kind of work on my relationship with food and exercise which i think also kind of has a lot of body image wrapped up in it too and so i do attribute so much of it to that specific like intuitive eating framework which people might be familiar with also for me i know to kind of give like the full context.

I actually didn't have too bad a body image growing up. Like I don't come from a house of dieters. My mom's never been on a diet. I've known on. Wow. Wow. I know. That's unusual.

Well, no, I know. But the thing, the worst part is, is that she's become way more aware of all these things since I did. So I feel like I brought it into the house, which I was just sad. Like I feel sad about that.

But yeah, fortunately, like that wasn't a thing. And I also feel lucky that like, beauty and how I looked and all those things were secondary in my house they're secondary to everyone in our house like it was very much about once again who you are your brain like you know what you have to say um your perspectives on things so I feel like I don't put all my self-worth in what I look like that's I like there's other aspects of my my self-worth that are in other things

and so I feel lucky about that because I don't place you know I don't have a lot of like stock there and I think that is massively from childhood like I'm really lucky in that respect you know a lot of my stuff around body image like actually all comes back

to so my dad died when I was 17 and I just realised that so much of my coping with that grief and that loss and not knowing what an earth to do with any of that emotion that came with that was to just cope the way I knew how, which was dieting, which was exercising, which was controlling food.

I realised less and less that in some ways it was far less about the exercise and the food, but much more about my grief. I remember sitting in therapy like very early on being like, so my dad died when I was 17, but I really started developing and really disordered habits with food and exercise when I was probably about 22. So five years later, I remember saying to my therapist, and I'm probably about 28, 29 at this point. So you think, you think the food stuff was to do with my grief? And she was like, yeah, absolutely. And I was like, sorry, what?

I had not connected the dots in my mind whatsoever because they were two completely separate events. I always felt I was at drama school at the time, which is a very body image focus place. You are staring in mirrors all the time. It's a lot of comparison. And you're always trying to find an edge. And for me, it was like I was trying to find an edge in any way I could. I was like, so I can physically find an edge.

I want to like look the strongest, be the strongest, be the fittest. But I hadn't kind of tied those things together. So a lot of the healing has been actually just dealing with my grief. And the more I've dealt with that, the less I've had to rely on those coping mechanisms. So I think like, yeah, I'm still definitely a perfectionist at heart. But yeah, it does manifest itself in different ways. So, I mean, I know you've both been on maybe somewhat similar. journeys, but it's like, when you lose one coping mechanism, like, I lose, I lost the coping mechanism

of food and exercise. And it's like, I really actually have to deal with this shit now. Diet culture taught me that way to cope. That's the kind of thing I have with diet culture. And it's like, as much as it is about food and exercise and body image, it's also the way that we've been told that, like, if we could just control these things, then you'll be happy. And actually, we're all just trying to cope with all these feelings that none of us ever had the emotional education with how to feel and they're like where do I put this and we're so not even conscious of that we even have those emotions that we don't know how to feel but we feel like if I just control my body then I'll be good and that's that's the constant like thing we're sold

and so if we're constantly trying to pursue that then we'll be fine and we'll be happy and we'll have everything and that'll be great and sadly like it all comes back to eventually the staff's going to catch up with you when they like it or not It's so interesting to hear you talk about that because I feel like that's the side of, I think I'm talking, yeah, recovery specific here, but it's a side of recovery that isn't really talked about how when you lose that coping mechanism and people then think that you're starting to recover, like I guess I'm speaking through my lens of anorexia.

I started to recover, I started to put on weight and people presumed I was better. And I was, you know, she's recovering. Look at her. She's putting on weight. She's eating. And actually, it was probably the most, I don't even know if to press is the right word. It was just the most mental, I just, the most awful I'd ever felt because I'd lost that coping mechanism. And I hadn't yet put anything else in place. And it was just bleak. I just didn't know how to cope, literally. And what's the easiest thing to pinpoint as to why you feel bad in that moment? My body. You gained weight. I gained weight. So it's the weight gain that's the issue. Yeah. And actually, is it the weight gain that's the issue? issue or is it the fact that you've lost this coping mechanism or you're trying to let go this coping mechanism you don't have anything else in place and so this is why I'm like

always trying to say to people like get your butts in therapy if you can talk to someone like have your talk it in place yeah um because we don't have all those things and so that's why like coming back to even like gaining weight in a relationship like that's why people find it so hard to think that like that is okay because that's the first thing we think if anything's tough or challenging emotionally challenging our lives is going to come back to weight gain and that's the reason why we feel like that and actually or not it's like there's so much stuff

so much other stuff going on there and like I'm not an expert in this like I'm not a therapist but I can only speak from my experience and just sort of observational things I see but I really do encourage people that like it likely is not necessarily about the weight

and the weight only that may be an aspect to it but there's definitely going to be stuff going on underneath that like you know the iceberg yeah um sort of metaphor like that's the surface level stuff and actually like using that analogy or that kind of visual aid for people once you so like the stuff above the water is like food exercise body image whatever else drinking smoking or shopping or whatever. That's like almost like the symptom of the thing. And then it's like underneath is what you're actually trying to cope with. And when those things are gone, it's like, oh, I've got to go underwater now.

And that's really hard. That's really, really hard. And so like really recommend people do that with if they're able to because I do recognize it is tough and expensive and there is a level of privilege there but get professional support yeah yeah and look into different types of therapy as well totally like that was really helpful for me see you know CBT is the you know is the first line of defense really isn't it is CBT but actually and I had and I had CBT for a long time and it was super helpful but it wasn't until I did schema therapy then which is what's that one it's less talking more imagery and

hopes more and tackles more of the of the emotional stuff yeah like our deep are really our deep like emotional triggers and that then was when it really I got to grips with the food stuff yeah and my body stuff that was what really helped me get deeper but yeah I think we don't realize that there's like different types of therapy as well oh my god there's so many there's like somatic therapies there's like EMDR therapy which is like a massive trauma therapy there's just talking psychodynamic or like childhood um side note my favorite program in the whole world couples therapy on bbc i player do you watch it no girls you would love it oh my god i want to it's so you're sat with um she's uh what's the word she's psychoanalytical and so she's all

about like psychoanalysis and analyzing a childhood but she films couples therapy sessions with couples and it's like real couples who if you watch that show and the people that go on there I do feel like sometimes they're they're obviously looking for not extreme situations but they've got to make TV at the end of the day yeah but it feels it's their therapy sessions and you're following them over like 12 weeks I think she does with them and it's amazing she is incredible as a therapist and I think for anyone who's like even just curious about therapy watch that just to get an understanding of what it even is about

like what even happens in a therapy situation I mean she's an exceptional therapist so you're not every therapist going to be quite like that I think she's a great example of like what it could be but yeah she's brilliant and once again

I think like coming back to this whole route of this conversation and on her show you you know couples are arguing about all these things all these things and then it's like okay so like let's just talk about what was relationship with your parents and it's like sadly a lot of this is so much more deep-rooted than we think. Of course, yeah.

Yeah, I find it fascinating. Yeah, I mean, our whole foundation is, you know, is those formative years. Yeah, totally. Which is really interesting. You say that your house was like diet-free and diet-culture-free, I guess, to an extent. There's probably a little bit. I remember my mum had like one diet book at one point, but she never acted on it because you're not that kind of person.

And I wonder if that's that, it will have played a huge part in how you were able to and you are now able to... Yes. Because I'm not getting... Because I think also what's tougher people is like the conversations they have with family, with people around them and hearing those conversations

in a way they talk about bodies and stuff. You do have it on an unusual level and that you have it in your DMs. Yeah. And I do think you've been on a really interesting journey and I suspect your family and your upbringing has enabled a lot of strength within this context because I think

lesser women would crack under the pressure that you must get in your DMs and the projection that you get in your DMs because you're very matter of fact about like this isn't anything to do with me but actually you know we can make anything about us if we try and instinctively when we're insecure you the gut reaction is to make it about us and to take everything personally and I think it is really remarkable you've been able to do this journey but you've also been able to share this journey and you've been able to do that without taking on other people's pain and other people's shit and making that your problem or your story. I don't know how you feel about sharing things online. Generally, I like to have a little bit of distance between it before

I want to actually talk about it. So I do feel like the things I share now about my relationship, so for example, putting a post up about being heavier than my husband and like gaining weight in that relationship, like, I feel good about talking about that because I do feel really secure around that. Like, I don't have any insecurities there around that situation. And if you asked me to do that, like, six, seven years ago, absolutely not. Am I going to talk about that? So I have to kind of do things, yeah, when I'm ready.

I think recently I opened up more about fertility, which is actually extremely present in my life and my mind. And I was like, oh, God, this feels like a massive overshare. but I was really glad I did because I think it just really helped me kind of get it off my chest but it's I don't know I like to you know the expression like speak from the scar

rather than the wound I try to to do that but I am even as you've been on this journey like you say like you've been dealing with all the stuff underneath but physically your body has changed even since you've been online and that's kind of again

like it sounds like you're the happier you've got in your life the more sure of who you are yeah yeah like more like the two things have gone at once but like you say when it comes to like social media we don't see that and we don't the instant assumption is that like weight gain it's a bad thing yeah whereas you know in your life it's been like instrumental to your happiness it is bright like it is yeah it is brave it is like sharing all of it being visible throughout all your learning and all you're growing is well here's a thing i find it easier to talk about

those things online, then I would someone face-to-face in my life. Yeah. I find that harder to actually be, like, deeply, deeply vulnerable necessarily with certain people, like, I'm working on it, and I definitely let my walls come down a lot. But I find it, sometimes I'm like, I want to talk about something, and I find it easier to just say it all online. It's like, I don't know, because it's in your phone. It's really hard to comprehend about the actual people looking at it in their line.

It feels abstract. No, it feels abstract. It does. It does. And like, I know it's like, it's my diary. It's like, I suppose it kind of way it is. I don't know. Like, it's easier to, it's easier to talk to strangers about these things. It's easier to even do this podcast and, like, talk about, like, deeply vulnerable things. I don't mind doing it at all. If, yeah, if you and my mom, maybe I'd find it harder. You know, like, I'd find out where I'd have the conversation. But, you know, working on it. This conversation is like, I think it's so good for people to be able to listen to and hear

you reframing weight gain. I think this is like the overarching message is like hearing you reframe weight gain in such a positive way. Like we see it. We always see it as such a negative thing and we just fail to recognise all the good stuff that comes with it. And I think I just I just love that in this conversation you've highlighted again and again how positive it's been for you mentally with your relationship. Yeah, I just, I think it's, I think it's going to be really good for people to listen

and to hear this other side of weight gain. Yeah, you're right. I don't think there's much narrative around it, like the positive narrative. So I do, yeah, I do like to talk about it. I do think, like, even though people might still not be okay with me getting weight, like it is easier for me to gain weight than someone who's already in a bigger body. Like, that's the, that is the reality of it.

And it is easier for me to talk about these things because I'm still very, you know, UK average, straight size. So I have to like bear that in mind, but I think it's important that there's a voice, some voices in these conversations. I saw this thing recently. It was like a TikTok classic of this kind of primary school teacher in the US teaching her kids as thing like, so what do we say? If someone can't change it in 30 seconds, what do we say?

And they're like, nothing. We don't say anything. And she's like, that's what she's teaching. Like if people can't change something in 30 seconds, like don't need to be commenting on it. Whether it's like, I don't know if their haircut, their weight, their skin, they're, you know, oh, you look tired, you know. all the stuff that comes with it like let's just remember that we're all just humans we'll just try and we'll just try at our best and I think the less we can focus on visuals and focus more on

people and who they are and I when I work with people and to try and help them with their relationship with exercise but that kind of body image element like so much of what I do is like I want to get to know you I want to you know one of the things I do is like I want to you know one of the things I do is like I you to write down five words that describes you and I want you to ask your loved ones to give you five words that just how they would describe you and like no people aren't writing down like slim bond they're like funny intelligent um witty I don't know savvy I don't know whatever words they're thinking of that's the words they're using and I think when we try and place our body image and like I mean Alex you know that

more than anyone, I think, when you're trying to build a sense of body image, the more you invest in what you look like and loving what you look like, that is such a unstable foundation to build. Because as we said, life is going to happen. It's so common for the way we view our bodies to fluctuate. Let's not think the goal is to love everything you see in the mirror. instead of investing in like having to love what you see invest in getting to know yourself and invest in who you are and becoming more of the person you want to be and I think that's one of the other reasons why I do feel quite secure around my body and like that isn't it's far less present in my mind these days it's because I'm much more interested in who I am as an hour

wife as a daughter as a friend you know i hope to one day be a mother like those are things i'm really interested in and so i'm putting way more value in that and i think obviously that's where therapy has been great because i think it's such a great space to get to know yourself i feel that we could do this forever i know there's so much we haven't even touched on but this has been actually wonderful to talk to you telly thank you so much oh no i mean sharing with of us. Yeah, we could literally chat all day. I do. It seems to be a three-partner. Thank you so much. We've absolutely loved it. We will leave all of Talley's, your books, links in the show notes and links to her

socials as well so you can go and find her. It's been great. Thank you so much. This has been wonderful. Thank you so much. Thank you. Should I delete that as part of the ACAS creator network.