Should I Delete That? - Elbows Out, Take Up Space with Nadiya Hussain

Episode Date: March 18, 2024

This week on the podcast the girls are joined by none other than Bake Off legend Nadiya Hussain. Nadiya talks about her lifelong journey with anxiety, how Bake Off changed her life (not always for the better) and the advice she gives to her children.You can purchase any of her brilliant books here: https://www.nadiyahussain.com/books/Follow us on Instagram @shouldideletethatEmail us at [e-mail] by Daisy GrantMusic by Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I didn't want to be at home and I didn't want to work and I didn't want to serve my husband's dinner on a table for him when he got home. I didn't want to go to sleep after him and wake up before him. I didn't want to spend my days raising my children. I didn't want that. That's not why I wanted for myself. I wanted to go to university. Hello and welcome back to Should I Delete That. I am M. Karkson and I am on my own again today. But for the very last time, I am so excited to let you know that from next week, normal service will resume. Should I delete that? Duo will be back together and I hate talking about myself and the third person, even when there's a fourth person, if you know what I mean. I'm sorry,

I regret it. I shouldn't have said that. It was weird. I am going to just go away and let you get on with the interview because we are so excited to bring this to you today. We couldn't believe it when Nadia said she wanted to come on and we love this conversation. We wait for you to hear it. But before I let you do that, I just have to share the most awkward of all awkwards this week. So if you follow me on Instagram, you might have seen that I've got misditis, which has been an absolute shamble of a situation. I've hated it. Honestly, being a woman, like so beautiful, so stunning, so amazing. Yay, the sisterhood, yay. Like childbirth, woohoo! But also, shit. It's been so sore recently. Between my uterus and my tinnies,

I'm just all over the place. Anyway, I've got my. misditis. It's horrendous. I went to the GP. Well, before I went to the GP, I was like, I think I've got my stitis. So I googled it. What did you do for misstitis? I told you, told you guys, told Instagram. And they were like, cabbage leaf, babe. Everybody said, just put cabbage leaf in there. Alex was like, I'll go to the shop. I'll get your cabbage leaf. I thought, oh, that's true love. So I put a cabbage leaf in a bra. So what harm can it do? And also, like, how much lower can I go at this point? Like, at this, it's been a year, you know what I mean? It's been longer than a year, because my pregnancy was

bleak. So I have, you know, the bar for me is low. It's just super low. So I was like, Yeah, yeah, I'll put a cabbage leaf from the bra. Literally no biggie. I got worse during the day. Like, I became infected in myself. I just was not feeling well. So I made a GP appointment because I was like, I'm not fucking around with this.

I'm going to go to the GP. So I got to the GP. She was like, describe the symptoms. I described them. She said, it sounds like you've got my stitis. I just need to look at your boob. It's like, yeah, of course you can. Lifted up my jumper.

Forgot there was a bloody cabbage leaf in there, didn't I? As I lifted it up, she just looked to me and she went, what's that? I was like, it's a cabbage leaf. She went, why? I was like, well, Google said it would help. And she was like, I think antibiotics might help more. I was like, yeah, okay.

And then she was like, could you put it in the bin? So I had to scoot the cabbage leaf and do the walk of shame across the office floor to go and put my cabbage leaf in her medical waist bin and then walk back and then show her my boob. And then she went, because there's nothing I hate more than a boob in isolation. Like, can I say a boob? No. like look at them together they are it's like a twin pack

you know what they're double like don't they're like me and Alex see see what happens from one of us is alone it's awful so I was alone it was just it was just me it was just it was bad it was this it was just this but in a doctor's room with a cabbage leaf anyway so then let me get the other one out which helped and then yeah and then when I left you

it's like please don't put any more cabbage on your boobs and I was like okay but I did because I figured it might help and I seem to be doing fine so that's nice um and that's that that that's that that's that that's just like stinky foul pits of of sex appeal that's where i live right now so i'm going to go um i'm so excited for you guys to hear this interview and i'm even more excited for next monday because we will be back and we've got so much exciting stuff to share not only have we obviously got the catch-up of all catch-ups to have with

Alex, who we haven't spoken to in real time since before Christmas. I have, obviously. I'm just completely ignored for three months. No, but we're going to have a full catch-up, full tell us about the birth-style episode, which we're so excited for. But we also have some really exciting announcements to make and news to share. So, come back. Come back.

And you know what? If you start with, thanks for sticking with me, because I feel like I have. I feel like we've been in it together and I've missed Alex so much and I love you guys we love you guys we're so excited but I'm gonna go I'm just gonna go enjoy the interview

I love you bye oh my god hi Nadia thank you so much for being here I'm so happy you're here oh thank you you you know what we've been trying to be on here and you've been trying to get me on here

for such a long time but we're here now yes because so we had this panel talk for it cosmetics and it was all about confidence and you blew my mind with a lot and we're going to go into a few things that you talked about and afterwards I was like M we need we need Nadia on the podcast she needs to come on the podcast so this is exciting it's come to fruition and I'm really excited I would love to start with something that you I guess it's become kind of your mantra and you talked about it on the panel and I was like mind blown about it not mind blown that's not I guess that's not the right term but

I was just like really taken by this phrase that you have, which is elbows out, create your own space. And it's something that you tell your children and you try and really drill into them and instilling them. Can you explain what this means? Elbows out, create your own space. Okay, so I suppose it's one of those things, like if you do it, so if you do it physically, like if you physically pull your elbows out and you kind of, you do that, you're kind of, you're making yourself physically bigger. And it's something that I hadn't realized that. I was doing in my head my whole life, like I've been trying to do it my whole life. And I don't really have any words for it. I didn't really know that it was a thing that I was doing, but it's

something that I've had to master or try to master or try to implement my whole life. And then this, like you have a child. And then you realize, oh my goodness, like all of those things that I've been doing my whole life, trying to fit in, trying to not fit in, trying to be different, trying to be unique, trying to not blend, you know, all of those things. I now have to try to not imprint any of the negativity of that onto my child, so they have a clean slate, but equally need to teach them at the same time that they're living in a world where they're going to be very different. So they are going to have to learn elbows out.

And so when I had my kids, I'd realize they were sort of almost experiencing some of the things that I was experiencing. And it's something that I said, I just naturally said to them when they were little. Like, come on, elbows out. Come on. You can do it. And it was all about physically making space, but it was also about mentally kind of making space for yourself. Because, you know, as a, I'm first generation British in my family, my children are second generation. I grew up in an immigrant household. They have not grown up in an immigrant household. So their lives are very different to the one I grew up with. But even so, they are still facing some of the same struggles I faced as a child of an

immigrant. And they've had to, I've had to learn how to teach them how to make space for themselves because they are going to walk into situations where they are not going to fit in, where they are not going to be like everyone else, where they are going to have to prove their worth. So they have to learn that they have to make that space for themselves in here and physically too. And that's something that I say to my kids all the time, don't get me wrong, they're all bigger than me now. So they're making loads of space. They have got plenty of space. But they are, it is something that I have to sometimes step back and even my son who's six foot tall with 13 and a half feet. You know, like I have to say to him, you have to make space for you and you have to create that

space for yourself because no one is going to do that for you. No one. No one in this world, not even me. I always say, I'm your mom and I can't create that space for you. You've got to do it for yourself. And it's something that I live by. It's an affirmation that I live by. And I know I've met lots of people and I say it to them all the time. And I think if it's something that you've struggled wood when you say the words elbows out to someone they know exactly what you're saying they need no explanation i actually just started welling up i'm sorry no i think it's so nice i think maybe it's just because i've had a baby recently and it's like you want to teach them this like it's what you're saying about like no one's going to do it for you and you want as a mom to do it and be like i'm going to make

space for you but you're right like you have to do it for yourself and it's such a lovely it's such a lovely thing that you've taught them you're grown up kids now that they make space for themselves i don't i think that i think that's stunning i love that isn't it it's gorgeous isn't it yeah and i think mentally like physically i i feel like it's a big thing for women right to like fit to actually we've conditioned to be smaller so it is amazing to like encourage big physical bigness totally i think as women we're always kind of there's this kind of box that we're supposed to sit in neatly and it's just we're supposed to just sit in this lovely little neat box and you know there's there's the woman there's being a woman that's one element of it

but you know for me like I think there are so many layers that I have to peel back you know there's also the fact that you know I grew up in an immigrant household the fact that I'm brown the fact that I'm a Muslim woman and so all of those things like everyone has a box for you and everyone thinks that you should be a particular way and it's so important so important to know you well enough to know that you do not fit in that box. And there is no box that will ever be suitable for any of us. Never. There is no box that will ever be big enough, roomy enough for us.

We should be taking up space of that box and more. And so, yeah, I kind of try and always tell me, I mean, look, they're teenagers. If I could go back, I want to cry myself. Like, if I could go back, there are so many things I would have done differently. But equally, I'm here where I am now. and there are things that I would go back and change but we're meant to be here for a reason and these are the little lessons that we learn

and there's things I don't want our I don't want my life to become a lesson for my children but there are things I'm going to do they're going to do differently so it's oh God enjoy them oh enjoy them I remember before the panel we had a dinner and I remember you saying that to me

that you would do things differently with your kids now if you could go back can do them again and I remember we had like a long conversation about that where we you know we talked about how like you are where you were where you were at the time and you only knew what you knew then and you had you had your children quite young didn't you yeah I got so I got married at 20 I'd only met my husband but when by the time we got married we had only sat in a room with each other for four minutes. So we'd spoken to each other for six months,

so we knew each other, but we didn't know each other. We didn't have to, we'd only ever seen one picture of each other. And we'd only ever sat in a room for four minutes. And the day we got married, we were in a room for about three minutes. And then he was, he'd gone and I stayed at home. And then we got, had the official wedding, got married. We had, I got pregnant sort of three months later. And I got married because I wasn't allowed to go to university.

So I was like, my parents did let me go to uni. got in but wasn't allowed to go and so it was like well fine then i guess because my my ultimate goal was always my family's goal was my only ever role my only real role was to be married and to have children and so i was like well if you're not going to let me work i suppose that's all i've got that's the only way i'm going to get out of here so let's do it so got married had my son um exactly um a week after our first wedding anniversary and then had my second son exactly a year later So, and I was young and I was literally on the phone to somebody right now and I was saying that I actually, I feel like I grew up with my boys. I didn't raise them.

I feel like we grew up together because I was only 21 because I didn't really know who I was. And I'm only just working that out now. Like I'm going to be 40 next year and I'm the happiest I've been and it's taking me 40 years to get there. But at 20 something, I didn't know who I was. I didn't really want to be married. You know, I didn't, it was just a path that was set for me because there was no other alternative. So for me, I was young and I do feel like I grew up with my boys and that's going to come with its own bucket of mistakes, you know, because they're my children and I'm supposed to raise them.

I'm not supposed to grow up with them. So by the time I had my daughter, I was 26, by then I'd worked it out. I was like, going to get my degree, going to get a job, become a social worker. I'd worked it out, you know, we had the house, we had the car. I was like, yeah, we worked it out. We've got it. And we, you know, we didn't struggle month to month. And so then I had my girl and then it's like, okay, I'm raising her.

And they're very different children. It's interesting because I've raised her, but I grew up with them. So they're very different children and they take on very different roles. So, yeah, it's, I did. I did. I started very young. Talking about the box, the box that we're put in, it does sound like you would, you were put in a box in terms of the expectation for your life.

Did you feel from when you were very young that you wanted more for yourself and you didn't want to just be a wife and a mum? Or was that kind of, did that come after you became a wife and a mum? Do you know what I mean? Yeah, no, for sure. I was definitely the, I was definitely the gobby one in the family. I would, I would, my dad hated it. He was just like, just shut up, seriously.

Just stop. And I'm one of six. four sisters, two brothers, and I just, I asked why a lot. I asked why, I'm paying the price now because my kids are always why, but why, but why? They need an explanation for everything. But I did, I, you know, I didn't fully understand why. Because it just, for me, I think what really intrigued me growing up was I grew up around women who were frugal, who were thrifty, who got stuff done, who woke up before everyone,

slept after everyone, they just, they looked after everyone but themselves. I grew up around women who were busy all the time, but they were never happy. I didn't grow up around happy women. I grew up around miserable women, women who were unhappy in their lives because it was mundane, it was day-to-day. And if I asked them, were you unhappy, they'll say, no, no, no, we were fine. But they were never happy. And I just didn't grow up around happy women.

And I knew from a very young age that whatever that was that they were doing, I didn't want that. that was not for me, that I didn't want to be at home and I didn't want to work and I didn't want to serve my husband's dinner on a table for him when he got home. I didn't want to go to sleep after him and wake up before him. I didn't want to spend my days raising my children. I didn't want that. That's not what I wanted for myself. I wanted to go to university. I wanted to get a degree. I wanted a career. I wanted to buy a house and I wanted to buy a car me. I wanted to do that. Not my dad, not my brother is me. I needed to do that. Me. I needed to do that. myself and I kind of I kind of made that happen I went to college I worked really hard

got into university and two weeks before I got into university my mom just said you're not going to university I was the first girl first member of my family to ever get into into higher education and my mom just said absolutely not for her as an immigrant woman I was basically asking to go to the moon that's what as a nearly 40 year old that's what I see I see it now like I definitely have a little bit more perspective now. I was angry at 18, but at 40, I can see it from her perspective because for her, I was asking to go to the moon. And I wasn't got, for me, this was my world. I was going to go uni, I was going to get on a train, I was going to live away from home. This was a world. This was my, this was my currency. It was, it was the way I understood

the world. Whereas for her, she didn't understand it. She was like, absolutely no way. And her first reaction was get her married because there's no other we can't control if she doesn't get married so let's get her married and that was that was where I was headed and I was my surname growing up was begam which means wife and I fought with my mom from a very young age I said how is it that from the moment I'm born my name is wife I'm not even I'm just only barely your daughter how can I be someone's wife I don't get why that's a surname that's given to us and my mom's Begham, my sisters are Begams. And the first thing I did was decide I'm never going to use Begum and I was Nadia, like Madonna for the rest of my life. I was like, no, that's it. I'm just going to be

Nadia. That's it. And I argued with them. I fought with them from a very young age. So that box was never, ever for me. Never. It's amazing that you had that perspective and you had that desire to do something different because often when we're brought up in a specific set of circumstances, like that's all we know and that's all we know to follow and do. Where do you think that desire to do something different and take your life in a different route? Like, where did that come from?

I don't know. I suppose it had to, I suppose it didn't just come. It wasn't just like a, it wasn't just, it wasn't magic. It had to come from somewhere. So I guess part of me thinks that I do sometimes lay back in bed and I probably should stop thinking because I do spend a lot of time just laying in bed

thinking about things like this. But that desire must have been somewhere in someone for in order for it to come to me because I feel like what if what if that was something that my mom wanted like what if my mom had that desire what if it was my grandma who who wanted freedom who wanted to be able to live out her dreams and not be threatened with you know you're never coming home or we're going to change the locks what if she had those what if there was a spark in her that I've now got that I now have the opportunity to make real and so I don't know. I can't pinpoint where it came from, but I always knew that it was there.

And I just, I remember growing up. And we grew up in a very kind of, it was very volatile. It was like my dad was, you know, my dad worked in restaurants. So he ran restaurants. And we never really saw him. So he was, he only came home once a week. Mom ran the house on very, very little. You know, I had two very ill siblings who were in and out hospital. So sometimes we wouldn't be with my mom for eight months at a time. So, So we were mostly raised by my grandma who didn't read or write English, didn't speak English. And if you took the paper off a can of beans, she would not know what is in that can. That's how, so it was very basic.

And so we very much became adults. We had to become the adults very quickly. So I suppose if you're having to adult at six or seven, you start to think like, you start to think decades older than your age. and you start to see things differently. And for me, I just knew from a very early age that I don't want that unhappiness. Whatever that unhappiness is all not all of the women in our family. I don't want that.

I don't want any part of it. And the only thing they had in common was husbands, children, cooking. That was it. And I was like, I don't want any part of that. I don't want any part of that. And it's funny because I have exactly those things. Husband, children, cooking. And I'm the happiest I've ever been.

But it was all on your terms. But it was on my terms. Yeah. But it was on my terms. turns i have a husband who um who doesn't he definitely does not when there's a box involved he does not like he's like you are i am he's like you are your own entity my love you are not to be sat you are not to be in a box um and and i see it now in my own children like my little girl is fiery and feisty and i love it and i encourage it and i'm like no you keep that fire don't ever ever let anyone water that down

and so are my boys and and they see you know they see me go out and work and and travel the world and do things that nobody in our family does not one person in our family does what I do and so they see this version of me that they didn't grow up with so I suppose in some ways I know that I've changed that just in one generation which is really hard to do it's you know we should be making changes over generations it's easier on everyone but for me as one mother, you know, I've had to make huge changes so my kids don't have to grow up seeing the things that I saw. So it's a massive responsibility. And I don't take it lightly. I just, I, this is why I can't sleep at night. This is why I lay in bed thinking all the time.

But it's a huge shift as well. Like what was, because your career now is like bonkers big and like you work so hard and so often and so much. What was the like journey from having your two boys and not working to then starting to work by the time you had your daughter to then going on and obviously Bakeoff kind of like catapulted everything else that you did but like what was the steps to like starting to work if if you'd gone straight into having babies so young um so i originally so before i had my kids i worked because i wasn't able to go to uni i worked two jobs day and night i worked night shifts day shifts i worked in office um and i just i was never at home so i just kind of I think that was me. That was the rebellion in me. I was like, well, if you won't let me go

uni, then I will just work. And so I did. I worked and I was never really ever at home. And then when I got married, it made no financial sense for me to work because every penny that I would have spent, every penny that I would have earned would have gone straight into childcare. And then my husband and I between us decided, well, he had, he'd gone to university. He had a career and he was thriving in it and was doing really well and it made sense for him to go to work and for me to stay at home. And so that's the kind of decision that we made together, all in the hope that one day I would go back to work. But financially, it was just, it was impossible to go to work. And so I stayed at home, which actually, if I think about it, the fact that he could look after a whole family by

himself on one wage is a luxury that lots of people don't have anymore. So I do look back at that and think actually that's a luxury that we could have a home and a car and children and and and we could do that all on one wage. So I decided that I'm going to stay at home. We both decided. But in the meantime, I kind of started doing my degree. So I was like, no, the one thing I will do is my degree. And so I started to, my husband helped me to, he put me through university. And I, I started as soon as I, I started going, I started uni as soon as I got pregnant with my third. And I was like, what have I done? Like, this is going to be so...

And I remember being in labour with my third. And I was in labour and I was revising for my exams because my exams were in 10 days. If she was born that day, then it would have been 10 days away from my exam, but she wasn't. She was born sort of three days later. So I'd gone in, I was revising overdue.

And then I was like, okay, so... And then seven days later, I had to then go into the exam whilst she was outside the exam room and occasionally bought in to breastfeed. I had to beg and plead with them and say look I've got I've got to do my exam I have not worked this hard and she's just a baby I was like she's just a baby she just needs to drink she's not going to give me no she's not going to give me any answers she just needs to drink like she she knows nothing and so I did I did my exam on one boob and then I flipped her over other boob and I did my exam

and I was sore and she didn't make a sound and I did my exam and I walked out can you imagine like so hormonal crying and I was like I did that I did that I did my exam and and I put myself through my degree and um and um in the hope to eventually go into social work and then the year that I was meant to go back to work my husband said why don't you just do bake off and I was like because I'm really anxious and I have PTSD and I don't want to do it and it's too much and he said go on just just do it and then obviously you'll go back to work or whatever but just give it a shot and he did it because my anxiety was so bad. Like it was, I was in bed all the time.

I was never, I was, I just, I stopped looking after myself. I stopped looking after the kids the way I would normally look after them. And I just kind of lost the will to live a little bit. And he just said, just do it. And I don't know why he thought that doing the biggest baking show in the country was going to be the thing that was going to heal me. If anything, it added to my stress. But, but it was the best thing I did.

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Do you know? Was it always something you suffered with? So I can't really pinpoint the exact point. I don't really know any different. I don't think I know a version of me without anxiety. I don't think I really know a version of me. I wish, if I could, everyone always asks me the question, like, if you go back to your younger self,

if you could go back to your 10-year-old self, I wouldn't go back to 10-year-old self. I'd go back to this self, the version of me that didn't have anxiety just as look in her eyes and just to see, just to see what, just I'd love to see her face and see what her face was like

when she wasn't sad and when she wasn't anxious or when she wasn't broken, I'd go back to her. But I don't really know when it started, but I think I was really severely bullied as a child. You know, I had my fingers smashed, I was, you know, boys used to expose themselves.

I had my fingers smashed indoors. I had my head flushed down the toilet. I had my hair pulled out. It was horrific. It was like really, really horrible bullying. And I had two sick siblings, so I could never go to my parents and say, actually, I'm being bullied because, you know, for my siblings, it was life or death. Every time they had an operation, it was life or death.

So I had to learn, I had to learn how to be, I had to learn how to, um, kind of compartmentalize at the age of seven or eight where I had to learn that actually I was not priority. I couldn't be. How could be bullying, how could bullying be more important than life or death? And so I had to learn to just, I suppose I had to learn perspective from a very early age. So I don't really know a version of me without anxiety. And I think I don't know if I met a version of me without anxiety. I don't know if I'd recognize her. I don't know if I would know who she is because I don't really know a version of that. But I have to kind of wear my anxiety like a superpower now because I suppose it's the thing that makes me who I am.

It makes me vulnerable. It makes me honest. It makes me a better mother. I know that for sure because I know even if at my lowest, my kids get to see a version of a mother that is real, that is honest and is vulnerable and can just say, look, I'm not all right today. And, and, and I suppose for me, that's a wonderful thing. I have to look at it like that. Otherwise, I'd always be striving for that version of me that I can't ever have. I know I'll never have. I just never will. God, that's so hard and I'm so sorry for what you've been through. And can I ask the bullying? You don't think the bullying was the root of the anxiety, but it's something that massively exacerbated your anxiety. Is that right? I think it was the root. Oh, it was. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, it sounds like it should be, you know, like it's horrendous. enough, you know. Yeah, I mean, I think, I think a lot of it was, I think, I think, if I look back, that bullying started at six and I can remember being six years old, same boys, same boys. There were two boys and the same boys up to the age of 18 harassed me for, for the same two boys. I don't know what they had against me, but I was different. I was short.

I was the only girl who wore trousers in the school because I refused to wear a dress. I was the only girl who cut her hair short I had a mullet till I was 13 and I thought it was cool I hated having long hair and I was the only one that was different and I had dark skin everyone in my school had fair skin

and these were not and I went to a predominantly I would say 98% Southeast Asian school like where all the kids were Pakistani Bangladesh or Indian they were no I'd never gone to school with English people

I didn't go to school to school with white people black people It was always Southeast Asian So I was just very different to them And I was the reason And clearly they found it It was like a target on my back

And I was the reason why But yeah I wouldn't I guess it was as early as six or seven And it was probably from the bullying Yeah I'm so sorry I know it's horrendous And just so painful

That you had to learn how to internalise it Like you weren't able Like you say to externalise it And you know at that age you should be able to pass the problem onto your primary caregivers, but you didn't feel able to do that. Also, it's also, can I just, it's also the idiot teachers, can I just say?

Yeah. You know, you know when they say, ignore them and it'll go away? Oh, my goodness. No. I spent a lifetime trying to ignore it in order for it to go away. And I did not, every time I told a teacher, they were like, ignore it. ignore them and they'll go away and that's all I ever did

I never retaliated I never said anything back they just ignore it and it'll go away and I was like who were these people and who says that to a child who is having their fingers trapped in doors and having their head flushed down the toilet

like who does that who does that so I just for me I can't understand why teachers were allowed to say things like that so I'm very much as a parent you can imagine what I'm like if somebody even looks at my kids in a way they shouldn't and I'm yeah my little girl she's always like please don't please don't

email the teachers it was nothing please don't even I'm like are you being bullied she goes mom everything isn't bullying sometimes people say things and we say it back and it's fine and I'm like yeah but how do I know it's not bullying and so I become that mom and because I want I can't imagine my children going through what I went through I can't I can't and I would I don't know how I would feel or how I would react I guess I'm sweating just thinking about it I can't the thought of my child going through the same thing. No. That's honestly my biggest fear as a mum, you know.

Yeah. Can I fast forward and ask how you then coped going on to the world stage or the conscious stage and anybody who exposes any part of themselves, not literally, but anyone who puts themselves, anyone who is, everyone is awful. So when anybody goes into the public eye, there is an element of bullying that. comes with it and you did experience a lot of that after you did bake-off. What's that, that must have been wildly triggering for you. Just to give you an example of how my life changed after bake-off, we've had to have panic

buttons put into rooms. We've had to, my daughter thinks everyone has panic buttons in their bedrooms. Can you believe that? Like, that's just to give you an example of how, so when I did something, when you do something like Bake Off, my husband, best intentions, you know, he was like, just, you know, you're amazing. And also, he was very complimentary. He's like, you're really good at this. Like, you could, you could do this. And, and I did it because, you know, I suppose in my, in my head, I knew that he was trying to get me out of the house and trying to get me to kind of get out of my own skin a little bit

and just kind of show my personality a little bit more. And what I'd never really thought, about you become television is some is really interesting because it does make you feel you become naive to the fact that people are watching or will watch or that it will be edited and then they will watch a version of you that may not necessarily be who you are I suppose um and so it's a little bit like I'm a celebrity you see you see everyone's car cagey at the beginning and by week two that all of the life stories are coming out because they've forgotten that there's a camera on them and whilst that makes great television they may be. they may live to regret some of the things that they say on screen.

So for me, I'd kind of almost forgotten that I was going to be on television. And it dawned on me the day I was announced. So you wait, sort of once the final episode is shot, there's a gap of six weeks where you kind of, that's the anonymity, that's the moment where if I'd known that that's, that was my six weeks of never being, like, of not being famous, of not being a face that people recognize, I would have definitely enjoyed those six weeks.

But that moment that your name is announced, my life changed from that moment on because I was getting hate mail, I was getting people, there was comments, and there were loads of articles about it, because everyone, you have a little picture, and then you have your age and what you do. And I was the only housewife,

and there were lots of comments of, there's another immigrant who's on benefits, who's, you know, so I got a lot of that and I thought to myself, oh God, I said to my husband, oh, what have I done? People don't see me for who I am. They just think that I'm this, they just think that I'm, like I got free words like freeloader

and all sorts of really horrible words. And I thought, oh my goodness, they think I'm just like, I'm just on benefits and nothing wrong with being on benefits, by the way, can I just say, you know, they think I'm on benefits. They kind of completely like it kind of excluded the fact that, you know, I, it just being a housewife wasn't enough.

It dawned on me that being a housewife wasn't enough. I had to be freeloading. I had to be on benefits. I had to be scrounging. I had to be a strain on the government. You know, all of these things that I was hearing. I was like, oh my goodness, I'm actually none of those things. I'm actually none of those things.

And I found that really, for me, that was one of the most triggering moments of my life. I thought, what have I done? Because I can't undo this anymore because what people are going to get now is 10 weeks of me. And that's how it proceeded, 10 weeks of negativity, of abuse. And it was only really when I got to week 10 and I got to the final and they recommended everybody gets an agent. And that meant getting a second person into the fold who was now really seeing the true, the extent of the bullying and the negative comments. And when I say negative comments, I don't mean just, we were getting, I was getting death. I was getting descriptive, detailed versions of how I should die and how my children should die

and how I'm a drain on society on the earth. And I mean, genuinely the most horrific things to the point where the policeman couldn't read what was being written on the emails because he said, you don't want to hear this. So, yes, to say it was traumatic is an understatement. and it definitely bought all of that back but it just made me even more protective of my children there is so much to that

but the fact that that's happening even before before anyone's even seen you just on the announcement we are so that is so vile and you can't justify any of it but as you said you couldn't even women at this point can't afford not to work

if you have children someone has to stay for the most part someone has to stay home because of the cost of childcare everything about that is unjust but that is so unfair that the word housewife is weaponised like that when there's so much more to you and no one even knew you or had any so on time I'm just really I'm so sorry

but now when somebody talks about work I don't call it's not about being a household I say it's paid when I say paid work because I still work when I'm at home I'm still very much housewife and I'm proud of it but it's not paid work so now what I say

whenever my sister-in-law who's at home with her kids I'm like paid work paid work not paid work that's what we're so it's like it's bad but we've almost kind of changed we've had to change the terminology so that we don't feel bad about it but there's nothing wrong with being a housewife

it's not paid work but you should be proud of it did when you were when you were going through with um when you're going through all of that with bake off what any of the other contestants receiving any abuse or what did you have any support from because you said that it was only when you got an agent like you have more you know you had a second pair of eyes like sort of privy to what was happening did that mean that you were kind of suffering with it alone you we were definitely it was uh it was it's it's yeah i mean we because my husband and i uh we it's really interesting you say because

it's extended a little bit more into my children because if you think about the fact that when we were experiencing this, we had nowhere to go. We couldn't go to someone and say, this is what I'm experiencing, because often the response is, oh, but you're paying for the privilege of the threats, right?

Because you get paid and you get to do your job and you, you know, so people don't necessarily see that. And I'm not just talking about people on the outside, I'm talking about family members, friends, You know, I lost friends because they were like, whatever this is that you're doing, like, we'll be here when you're done, but we're not, we're not into this. So, you know, I've lost family members. I've lost friends because people didn't understand.

They're like, right, you're getting paid to do this job, right? So it comes with the job, right? And I'm like, no, it doesn't, you realize it doesn't come with the job. You know, just when people justify it and say it comes with the job, you are saying that it's okay to threaten someone's children. You're saying it's okay to tell me that I shouldn't be alive and that I should be dead and I should die a certain way. You're saying that that's acceptable. But if I'm being paid for them, if you're being paid, yeah, sure, it is.

But it's not. So for myself and my husband and our family, what's happened is we've kind of gone, become quite insular, we've become quite protective. And we kind of spend a lot of time at home. And when we do go out, we're very careful. My children to this day, a lot of their friends don't know that I'm their mother. And they don't tell anyone that because they don't, they just, it's something that we've maintained for a really, really long time. I don't go to parents' evenings because they, it just comes with a lot of,

it comes with a lot of baggage that I don't want my kids to have to deal with until they're much older and have a little bit more wisdom in how to deal with it because they're children at the end of the day. So whilst it can be exciting and fun, like my son to this day who's 17 has only ever told one person and one person only and that's it and so for them their life is very different they can't always bring friends home because they don't want people to know that i'm their mom so it has definitely changed how i would have raised my children but it's it has made as closer as a family and it's really funny because not long ago somebody was saying to me what you need is a famous

friend you need a famous friend who has children who you can say who when you complain about the things that famous people complain about you can then they can understand what you're going on about because if you complain about those things to someone who isn't in the public eye they can be like what what you talking about so yeah i've got my home ex constantly trying to hook me up with go on just get to go on just get best mates with him and go and complain to him because we don't get what you're talking about so yeah somebody they're always trying to they're always trying to make me friends with famous people but um it has changed how i think i would have raised my kids Yeah, I mean, you have to do what you have to do

And, you know, taking that inwards and becoming more insured is what you've had to do But it seems really, really incredibly unfair And I can't imagine that the other contestants that were on the show with you that year Would have had the same level of hatred, you know, and abuse leveled at them. Yeah, no, they didn't. didn't. We know, we know they didn't. I had, it was, I mean, I had politicians making comments about bakes that I was making on, doing on, on, on, on, on bake off and saying, well, she may as well do, she may as well make a chocolate mosque. I had politicians making comments like that. These are

people at the top. These are people who are running our country. So if you can't have faith in people who are running your country, how can you have faith in, you know, Joe public? You can't. You just can't. So it was for me, it was really eye-opening to see actually that my whole life I knew I was different. But then you go in the public eye as a Muslim brown woman and you realize, oh my goodness, I am as different as they get. And I am going to have to work really hard. If I'm going to have a career in this industry, then I'm going to have to work really, really hard. And I'm not, honestly, I can't express how difficult as much as, I mean, everyone sees this version of my career that looks really shiny and and fun and glossy but it's behind the scenes it's hard

work and it takes a physical and mental toll on on me my family my husband who's constantly having to prop me up and remind me that I'm good at what I do but what people don't see is that whilst I'm good at what I do which is something that I firmly believe I'm also if I was left to if I was left to do my job and be good at what I do and not have to to worry about my views on politics or the fact that I'm a brown woman, the fact that I wear a hijab, the fact that I have that I follow a faith, the fact that I have to constantly be answerable to people in my religion, people, British people, to constantly prove that I'm worthy of being British. If I didn't have to do all of those things, then I could just be really good at my craft,

but I have to do all of those things and be good at my craft. Now, I know there are loads of women who are listened to this and know, even though they may not have the struggles, I have, whether that's immigration, whether that's, you know, like, color of my skin, my fit. Even if they don't have to worry about those things, I can guarantee there are women listening right now who would love to just be left alone to be really great at what they do

without having to answer questions like, so who's looking after your kids? Well, who do you think's looking after my kids? I haven't chained them to a dining table. They're being looked after. They're fed. Do you know, so there are lots of women who will listen to this and think,

oh gosh, even if you're not in the public eye, I have to be this perfect version of myself before I can even do my job. So there will be people listening and thinking, I get it. I get that. You know, we can't just be. We can't just exist. We can't just be great. We have to be all of those other things and we have to be answerable for every single one of them.

I can't fathom where you found the strength to keep going and forge your career within a space. I think this is something actually that we touched on, when we interviewed, viewed Laura Adlington, and I think something that is really gutting is that you can take something as comforting as baking and you can take and you can have something that is so lovely, lovely, that's it. Yeah, and there's this like, yeah, and there is this like horrific undertone that we seem so accepting of. And the fact that people say to you, yeah, well, it's just coming.

And yeah, well, it's inevitable. And yeah, it's just part of the job. And it's like, it really upsets me to hear that this is so normalized that there isn't this huge outcry of like, no, what's happening to Nalia isn't fair. It's like, yeah, well, yeah, well. And it's like baking. I don't know. How, I guess, how do you then. choose not to just hide away from it and just go back to working social work or being at home.

Like, what made you just want to keep your elbows out? Because that's what everyone, that's what they want. Isn't that what they want? Isn't that what they want? Whoever they are, what they want is for me to just go back to where I came from, which is a statement I've heard my whole life, go back to where you came from. Luton. I was born in Luton. I wasn't, where do I go? Where do I go? And I don't, you know what I mean? So I, it goes right back to the very kind of source of it all is that I could easily go back to where I came

from. But why? Why should I? Why should I? Why should I? Why should I listen to, don't get me wrong. I'm human and I stuff gets under my skin. And there are moments where I do want to give up. And I do want to just say, you know, I just want to go back to anonymity. I just want to go back to just And I do. Sometimes I dream of having a nine to five. I dream of waking up, going to an office and doing a nine to five and coming home and not bringing my work home with me and not worrying about the safety of my children if people find out who I am. I shouldn't have to worry about stuff like that. But I do. And there are moments where I just want to hide. But in those moments, I do have to step back and think about what my job has given me. And my job has given me

a platform in which to speak for people like me who don't see themselves in publication, in the world of publishing, who don't see themselves in literature, who don't see their names or their stories being told. They don't see their faces being depicted. They don't see someone like themselves on cookery shows, on mainstream television.

You know, so in those moments where I feel like I could just go and hide, or I'd like to go away and hide, I kind of think about how hard I've worked to get to where I am. And whilst nobody really sees that, unless I talk about it, I have worked really hard and for so many demons, the ones in my head and the ones in real life, to get to where I am, because there's this, you know, this industry is made up of middle-aged white men who are afraid that someone like me is going to come and take their space. And I'm not here to taken in one space. I'm here to create my own space. I'm here to create a path. I'm just

whacking away the weeds, creating a safe path for people like me who can see me on television, who can see me writing books, who can see our stories being told, who can see our voices being heard saying, actually, if average Nadia can do it, then I can do it. And that for me is my biggest achievement doing this job, not the baking as much as I love it, not the cooking. I love all of that and that is that is that is where I get to be creative and get to express my creativity but ultimately like my biggest job has been creating that path for people like me for women like me for girls like me for kids like me who have suffered and who have struggled to find that path and to know where they belong for them to know that actually I can belong just like her

and and that that is the thing that keeps me going. every single day when I don't want to get out of bed and I think, I don't want to do this anymore, this is not fun anymore, because it's never fun. I have to find the fun. Like, there's moments where I have to kind of really find the fun in it because I love what I do. But yeah, that's what keeps,

that is what keeps me going day in, day out, knowing that there are little girls, kids, women out there, looking at me thinking, I'm going to be just like her one day. And that keeps me going. and my kids see that too and that is the biggest blessing for me and God the impact that just you be

well you you being in the public eye and also your strength and resilience and the impact that will have had on like you say little girls and women like you will be immeasurable like there's no way to measure it but it will be absolutely invaluable and I think it's important to like point out as well

obviously the primary concern is like your happiness and how what, you know, and what this career brings to you. But I think it's so important to point it out, like, how much joy, like, obviously there's so much negativity that you've experienced, but how much joy you've brought into people's lives as well. You're one of the most, if not the most, like, celebrated bake-off contestants that we've ever had.

People, like, when I, um, when I did the panel with you, I got so many messages from my friends being like, oh my God, I love Nadia, you know, and you're baking and you're cooking now as well. Like, it's brought so much into people's lives. I've actually got your book. I haven't tried it yet, but that's not your fault. It's my fault because I can't cook or me. That's definitely our fault.

That's my thing. It's not yours. But you have brought so much joy and, like, yeah, happiness into people's lives. And I think that's so important to point out as well, you know, because obviously I imagine the hate and the abuse and the negativity can really outweigh all of that. But I think, I hope that you get to see that side of things as well and get to really, you know, appreciate that. it's incredible. For sure, I don't, you know, if I, if I always thought about the negativity and

thought about the kind of the horrible, harsh things that I have to listen to, I would never be able to get out of bed in the morning. I just wouldn't. Because as somebody who suffers with anxiety, like, all my mind wants to do is keep me in bed. All my mind wants to do is like, is for me to just stay in bed, never wash and just, just lay there, just, just hoping that it gets better. But I'm just not built like that. I'm not, I'm a doer. I just, I get up and I do. And if I'm anxious, I will get up and I will clean something, I'll organise something, I'll tidy something, but I will get stuff done. And my kids get to see that. And the biggest privilege for me is that I can not only be a role model to people outside of my own home, but my kids finally get to see the version of me that I've always wanted to be.

Yes, it's taken me 40 years, but I've had to, I've lived a life of, and my sisters and my, you know, and women, my cousins around me have lived a life of being told that we. have a path and we have a direction and that's where we're headed and that is the only joy that we're ever going to get in our life is that but I'm here to tell those women that that is just because somebody has said that this is your path does not mean that that has to be your direction you can find happiness in the most unlikely places and I found happiness in the unlikeliest of places in places that I never imagined I would find happiness it's taken me 40 years to get there but I'm here and I get to do a job that I love

I get to inspire, I get to encourage I get to be honest and I get to talk for women like me who don't have a voice who are not able to talk and say and speak and be heard and that's what keeps me going and that's what keeps me going not to mention I do a job

where I get to bake cake every day for God's sake like for goodness sake can life get better right so can life get it I test recipes every single day my kids come They're like, what are we having today? Is it a crock on bush? Is it a crock on bush?

Are we having? What are we having? And so it's, it's, I, do you know what? I am, I am the mother I want to be and I am the woman that I want to be. It's been hard work getting here, but I wouldn't change any of it. I had to do the work to get here. And I don't, you know, I don't, I don't sit and stew over the negative, the negative comments of the people that make those comments. because actually, like, I feel sad for them.

I feel sad for those people because I think, gosh, like, I want you to be happy, even though I should not want happiness for them. I want happiness for those people. I just think how sad must you be inside to kind of pick apart somebody who bakes? Like, I want you to be happy too. So, yeah, I want nothing but happiness for everyone. You're also the woman that I want to be for what it's well. I'm obsessed with you.

Your kids are so lucky and not just because they get to eat. you're nice baking all the time. Thank you. It's hard work. I try. I try. It's hard work. It gets, now that they're teenagers,

you do start to, you have to reevaluate who you are as a mother as they get older. And I'm at that stage in my life now where I used to rock babies to sleep. Now I just hold my husband and I rock because I'm so anxious. I'm like, oh my goodness. Because they are there, you know,

we're at this new kind of phase of our life where our children are much older. And now we're starting to see the children. children we raised and the parents that we were because now we see in them all the things that we instilled, all the goodness that we instilled in them as children. They're like the cake. They're like the biggest, the longest cake ever. Yeah, the biggest recipe of my life, my children. But honestly, like they are hard work and they fight back and they are difficult and we are

re-evaluing who we are as parents. But they are by far the greatest, greatest thing that I've ever done. because they are becoming the versions of themselves that I saw when they were little. And again, you know, they're just kind, lovely, mouthy, opinionated, gorgeousness. Like, just, I love it. I love it. This has been great. This is so great. Thank you so, so much.

Honestly. Thank you. It's an absolute pleasure to talk to you. So nice. Thank you, guys. We're going to leave the links to how many books? have you done now? In total, 18.

What? We'll leave a lot of links. Yeah, but your most recent one is simple spices, right? Yeah. Yeah, very cool. Congratulations. And thank, yeah, thank you. Honestly, this has just been incredible to talk to you.

Thank you so much, Nadia. Thank you. My goal one day is to try one of your bakes in real life. You'll do it. You can do it. Should I delete that is part of the ACAS creator network. Thank you.