Should I Delete That? - Feeling Myself with Natalie Lee

Episode Date: April 10, 2022

Heads up, this episode contains a lot of heavy themes including sexual assault. Listener discretion is advised, so take care, and if you decide to sit this one out, we will see you next week!The girls have an emotional and inspiring conversation with Natalie Lee (@stylemesunday) about her journey from sexual shame to sexual freedom. They discuss when to start talking to kids about sex, owning and demanding pleasure, and how masturbation can increase your self esteem and communication skills… as well as much, much more! Alex and Em also fill us in on their holiday mishaps, including sweaty feet, solo dates and dissolving sick bags.Click here to pre-order Natalie's book from AmazonShow timestamps:Good, Bad & Awkward - 00:02:34Interview with Natalie - 00:27:57Is It Just Me? - 01:25:46Follow us on Instagram @shouldideletethatEmail us at [e-mail] by Mindler, use code DELETE22 for 50% off your first therapy session.Mindler is an online therapy app, offering video call sessions with psychologists. Self-help programmes are also available in the app, covering a range of diagnoses.Produced & edited by Daisy GrantMusic by Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We are delighted to be partnered back up with online therapy app Mindler. If you're struggling with your mental health and it's impacting your daily life or you just need someone to talk to, Mindler is a brilliant app that is helping to make therapy accessible. Mindler is a digital healthcare provider that offers online therapy with psychologists via video call in their app. You can choose which psychologist that you'd like to speak to and on the website and app you can filter by the psychologist's specialties and also see their photo and bio before you book. Mindler has short waiting times and once you've booked in your first video call on the app with a psychologist you get unlimited access to a whole library of self-help programs

which can either be carried out independently or with the help of a psychologist these programs cover a range of diagnoses including stress, depression, anxiety, burnout and more you can use code delete 22 to get 50% off your first session Oh my god why did I post that?

Ah I don't know what to do! I delete that? Yeah, you should definitely delete that. Hello, welcome. The podcast has gone international. So international right now. I know it's wild. Alex and I are on the same time zone, but a different time zone.

We've come, we've done the, we're doing the episode without producer Daisy, who's in England, because in England it's midnight and we thought this might be slightly above her pay grade to come and sit with us and listen to us chat, absolutely shite. at the middle of the night. But I'm in the Caribbean and you're in New York. I am. Oh my God.

You are, I was going to say, how are you? I can see your, sun-kissed. I was going to say, like, careful, choose your next words carefully, Alex,

because I look fucking stunning. I'm driving. You're just lucky you can't see my little trotters because I am one of those like really lucky women. Well, I'm one of these really lucky people that suffers with heat rash the sexiest of all sun-related conditions.

So gross. So my feet, I just, I sometimes just lie and tell people that I've been stalked by a jellyfish because it's a bit more hardcore. I was actually Googling heat rash. And do you know what it is? God, what? Am I okay?

I'm going to butcher it now. I think you're okay, but it's basically when sweat gets trapped beneath the skin. Sweety rashy little feet. Oh, that's the Instagram glamour. That's the Caribbean holiday. That's the dream.

sexy gal on the beach with her fucking sweat feet. Are you having a lovely time though? I am. I'm just going to kick us off and say that's my good. The good. The bad. And the awkward. This is our 2020 family holiday and then we lost it in 2020 as everybody did.

And then we lost it in 2021 as everybody did. So this year it's so surreal that we're here. And it felt like on the Thursday, just after I left you, the last day I had to get through before we We could get her, you know, we had to make sure that none of the family caught COVID, and we all got to the airport and all that shit. And then on the way home from work, I've been recording the podcast for you, my fucking car broke down. And then my brother, the next, that night got a inconclusive COVID result at 11 p.m. And our flight was at 9 a.m. the next day. And the, the, the place rang him.

And it wasn't like, oh, it's negative. It was just like, it's inconclusive. So we had to get to the airport super early so he could take a three-hour PCR and we just had to hope and pray. Anyway, it's fine, it was just drama and I can't believe that we're actually here. But I'm so happy, even though I've got horrible, rancid little feet. Do you know what really made me laugh is, so we left each other. You obviously got in your car to go home. And then like 20 minutes later or something, you texted me and said, I've had a breakdown.

And my initial thing was, it's like, oh my God, you need to chat. Sited that on Instagram. Everybody was like, a mental one. I was like, guys, no, a mechanical one. Obviously, a naturally led to a mental one on the side of the road. It just didn't even occur to me. I was just like, oh, God, like, what is it? Like, come on, let's talk.

Let's shut it out. Oh, absolutely shambles. Absolutely shambles. But, I mean, like, I am not going to complain. I'm having the time of my life. I'm so happy. Everything's so good. What's your good, please, my lady? My good. Well, I mean, my good was, my good was going to be that I'm in New York, because obviously that's very exciting. But actually, my good was last night, I went to a restaurant and had my first ever solo meal all by myself. And I, do you know what, I've always just been like, too scared to do it, I guess, but I didn't really have a choice last night. So I was like, right, I'm just going to push myself and do it. And I had such a nice time. I actually, that's how I want to go out from now on. I never want Dave with me. It was great. It was so nice. I took a book with me, but ended up just putting my headphones in and like, nobody thought I was weird. The staff didn't take too, like no notice of me whatsoever. And it was just great. So I'm now like, yes, eating out by

yourself, yes. I used to get so self-conscious going anywhere on my own. Like, I wouldn't even go to like a cafe. I couldn't even, even if I was waiting for my coffee, I didn't want to sit down on my own because I didn't want anyone to think that I didn't have any friends. And like, I mean, well, it's so stupid. But I agree, I love it so much. Like I took myself, I take myself out for lunch when we, well, sometimes I take myself out for lunch. And I took my book and I just feel like a fucking babe. Yeah. And I'm like, look at me going. So nice. It's so nice. And I just think, I don't know it's just I feel like on TV and in films it's always like made to feel like really awkward but there's just nothing awkward about it it was just dead chill but proud of you thank you so that

was fun um so you're single gal in new york love that i really really am and to be honest with you i think tonight's looking like the same kind of thing what you're having what you're going i just go back to the same place because new york is really and scary no no no no that that becomes sad does it you'll just become the girl's like oh she's in there every night on her own bless her it goes it's a downhill trajectory you go once you're mysterious you're cool you're the cool gal came in her own with a book how novel love that but you if you it becomes a pattern why is she here this is sad send her away okay okay i've got to go somewhere else then you've got to go somewhere else new york is big and scary

and there's stuff everywhere and there's so many restaurants it's like there's a pharmacy there's a pharmacy in new york no way yeah i ate there the night before my marathon do i mention that i Oh, no, I hadn't heard that, actually. I'm so glad you got that in there. Anyway, I'll let you know how it goes on. But what is your bad? Well, I feel that we should start with your bad, to be honest, because I'm presuming that your bad is the reason that you're having your solo.

Yeah. So, on the plane to New York. And Dave was quiet, which isn't that unusual for Dave, but extra quiet. and he went to the toilet and didn't come back for a very long time and I was like I'm concerned where's Dave he came back and he was literally green

and it was bad and he was like oh this is not good this is not good explosive diarrhea like go ahead everyone else who had to go to the loo after him and then it was then the panic

of like when I need to go again if it's engaged the toilet's engaged I'm gone like I'm just going to have to shit himself so it was quite stressful on the plane and then we got off and luckily got through security quickly and then he went and did it again and then i was like let's just wait here at the at the airport so you don't have to you know we can wait here and just let your stomach ease a little bit because getting in a taxi

is not going to be nice right now and he was like no it's now or never go go go let's just get to the hotel so i was like if you're sure so we got in the taxi and he was going like whiter and whiter but sweaty and sweatier and he just looked at me and went get me a bag get me a bag so i was like fuck rummaging through my bag like i've got anything at all anything but for my actual bag which i wasn't going to give him to sick it through sickness and health but not in my fucking handbag you crescent exactly um so i managed to like fish out this boots bag you know like a paper boots bag and as i fished it out i ripped it and i was like fuck i ripped it and i handed it to him in the nick of time and he literally so sick, so, so sick.

And then it was this like horrifying moment where we were both just looking at the bag knowing we had very, very, very limited time and I was watching it disintegrate before our very eyes. And it was like, sorry, this is really graphic, isn't it? I was watching it disintegrate before our very eyes and I was like, we've got seconds, and I don't know what to do and it was like slow motion but also went very fast.

And in the end it just basically disintegrated all over him. So, yeah. That is fucking horrific. What did the cab driver do? Horrific. He didn't understand what was going on. He didn't know, but I was like... Obviously, he didn't understand why someone being sick in a bag on their own lap

and then just letting it dissolve all over themselves. What a fucking horrible situation. How unusual. We were on a motorway and I was like, I just don't know what to do. Oh, no. Luckily, I found this tiny plastic bag. So he did the second round in that. and he got out of the

so he put his coat around his waist, around his legs because it was bad and holding his little bag of sick and he got out of the tax in and slipped in dog shit. No! Yeah. Day! This is the saddest thing I've ever.

I haven't even spoken to you. What is it? I think it's a virus because I was really sick beforehand and I just didn't, I didn't know what it was. No, and now he's sick, so I think it's a virus. Oh, God, I thought it was, I was a bit scared that it was food poisoning, to be fair, because after last week, and we talked about your, like, irrational fear of food poisoning, for which I got a lot of shit for not being very sympathetic to you,

because I know it is a phobia, but yours isn't really a phobia. Yours is just, like, a random anxiety. I'm not scared of being sick. I'm scared of having food poisoning on transport and not being able to have access. So, basically, what happened to Dave is your worst nightmare? literally my worst fucking nightmare I've felt I have never felt so sorry for anyone it was horrific oh bless him so you yeah that's really shit so he's come all the way to new york and his fancy little trip with his with a spontaneous wife and he's just shitting in a boots bag and slipping a dog

shit this is like 36 hours after we got here and he hasn't left the hotel room oh no I know it is really bad I've made people I'll take him for a little walk later Like a dog. Like a dog. What's your bad? Well, to be honest, I was like, I'm not going to have a bad because, like, the audacity of me being, like, I've got a bad when I'm literally living my best life. But I tell you what, my bad was the reaction to last week's podcast, which we would be remiss not to mention. Yes.

I suspected that was going to be yours. Obviously, on Monday, if you listen to last week's episode, we interviewed the fabulous Nelly London about loads of things, namely, trolling and then because irony is a bitch um we shared a clip from that episode of uh nelly walking down the street uh from her own instagram that's something that we touched on in the episode i'm sure you've seen it by now because fucking nearly a million people have seen it like the real stuff it's blown up anyway but we shared that because of the time difference i was in england at the time and if we post the promo for the podcast at like 730 in the morning which would have been 2.30 for me here. So I gave, for the first time actually, I never do this, but I gave

Al the login to my Instagram and basically said, you know, like, post it for me or we'll post it together and I just wasn't awake for it, which is the first time I've ever had anything go on my Instagram account, obviously, that I hadn't done and then watch the reaction for. So, you know, normally you post something and you can kind of tell in the first like 10, 10 minutes, like how it's going, if it's doing well, if it's pissing people off, you know, whatever, it's a good marker. But I missed the first 10 minutes and then I missed the following, like, fucking five hours. So by the time I woke up, like, it was insane. I've never seen anything like it.

And I literally woke up. I was like, it was like the first day in my holiday. I was like, what the fuck has happened here? And it was the most ridiculous reaction to my mind ever. It was heartbreaking, it was hurtful, and personally I thought it was completely fucking uncalled for. Because obviously, you know, we've always said you can have a different opinion to us, and that's the point of this podcast and whatever. But the scale to which the abuse came in and the cruelty, and that, like, that just felt like, what the, and maybe, maybe just because there was so much of it. And people talking about her, like, she wasn't there, like, she just wasn't even a human.

But I do have to say, I do have to say this, is that, you know, a lot of people message me or commented saying, well, you posted this, knowing it was controversial and you were going to get a reaction. I was like, honestly, swear down. Did we, did we have a clue? We had no idea. We just thought it was a good video. And we were pretty good at judging, like, what's going to be contentious. And we literally had no idea because we thought, we addressed it in the podcast, you know, we talked about why we thought it was right. And we, and it's just an advert at the end of the day. you know what I mean it was a really short I thought like quite innocuous clip but the thing that astounded me and I can say this because they're not here with the people who were so fucking angry and then and then I said look you need to listen to the podcast and then if you you know we can talk about this but we addressed it all in the podcast so go and listen to that and then we can talk about it but then people go I'm not listening to your fucking podcast blah blah and it was like well then why are you yelling at me you're like what's this happening but it was

people being like I hate I hate this like I'm so angry about all that this and and blah blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, we literally talked about all this in the podcast, so I think to fully, you know, this is just an advert. It's like being really angry at a film you haven't seen because of the trailer, but then refusing to watch the film and it's like, and then shouting at the director, I'm like, what's happening? What's happening? Right. But the comments on the post are a fucking shit show, but my DMs were stunning. Yeah. You know, for the 99.9% of my DMs were so supportive. I've had some great dialogues, conversations with other, with, with mums and whatever.

The one thing I found the hardest was obviously neither Nellie or you or I are mums. And it was the way that we were spoken to like we couldn't even have an opinion because we aren't mothers. Yeah, it was beyond like condescending and also just harmful. Yeah. And I put up a thing being like, look, don't say this because you don't know what any, don't say this to us, but don't say this to anybody because you don't, you can't say, oh, you'll get it when you're a mother or you don't know because you're not.

not a mother and it's like don't, well actually you can say you don't know because you're not a mother but what you shouldn't be saying I don't think is you'll know when you're a mother you'll understand when you're a mother because first of all a lot of people don't want children and that they are still complete human beings in and not of themselves but also a lot of people have issues with fertility and and you have no idea what's going on and and I put up a thing about that sorry I've said this has gone like into a massive rant but I put up a thing about that on my Instagram I said don't say this to people because you just have no idea what they're going through. And then I was getting shit

from women on the back at like, don't hide behind infertility issues. Like, take this head on, you're making issues for my children. And I was like, oh, are you okay? What's happening? And I stand by it. What? Like, I stand by supporting so much so,

so much so that I am like ready to go lingerie shopping and fucking get off the flight at Heathrow and walk myself back through it in a pair of suspenders. But like, that really frustrates me that that's two completely separate issues. You're not hiding behind infidelity at all. You're making a point that you can't really speak, you shouldn't be speaking

to anyone like that. I think mum's do a phenomenal job. I honestly, I tip my cap to any person who's created a human being because I think it's the most phenomenal and amazing thing. And I applaud you and your uterus and your boobs and your brain and every single ounce of strength that's taken for you to do that. But I don't think that having a child makes you a better a person than somebody that hasn't. But what really wow me up as well is people saying, yeah, but there's like, what's the point to it? What was the point? It's like,

why, she doesn't owe you a point. No one owes you a point. She can do whatever she wants. Like, just leave it. How about you see it? And scroll on by. Influences make so much content that Instagram is full of content. Some has a point, some doesn't. If somebody

speaks, right, if a Spanish person comes up to me and makes a really good fucking point, I won't know because I don't speak Spanish which is case in point that not everybody's points are going to be relevant or understood or whatever by everybody so if if you're looking at something and being like oh I don't see the point that's that's the problem with you in your eyes or yeah you know that's not Nellie's fault she doesn't owe you the point anyway but I do want I do want to stress

that we didn't like because we wouldn't have put Nellie in that position we didn't post that video thinking oh this is great it's going to be controversial, genuinely we did this. I think people think we're much smarter than what we are with our marketing. Don't they? Yeah. But can I just say, because I feel like a lot of that's been

on the 5% of twats, 95% of people have been fucking stunning. And I've had so many messages from people saying that their mothers, and they support it, that their mothers, and they've had really cool conversations with their kids on the back of it and, you know, that they changed their own perceptions

because of it, that they really enjoyed the episode. So it's fine. Also, well, as well. But that was my bad, Not for me and not for you because we, you know, I said it actually in the podcast last week. I'm used to getting shit and I'm kind of okay we're getting shit. But I did feel rotten for Nelly. I was a bit mortified.

I did. I did. I felt, like on our watch, you know. Yeah, I did. I felt disappointed. Um, Al, what's your awkward please, Your Honor? It's from a couple of weeks ago, but I forgot. Um, I went to, I went to a cabaret with Dave that you were upset about because I didn't invite you.

I'm so sorry. It was a very last minute thing. And you weren't there, you were in Oxfordshire, so... It's not the point. It's not the point. And I agree. I am so sorry, it's not the point. I don't want you there, I thought it was Dave.

Did you hear that? Yeah, Dave, I did, and it was like a dagger to my heart. You're right, it's not the point, and please never do it to me. So we went to the cover, right? And it was really good, like loads of different acts, like really enjoyed it. Blah, blah, blah. Anyway, and then woke up to this DM. Hopefully it's okay to send this.

just a random girl, but we were sitting behind you last night. We didn't want to spoil your date by saying hi, but I just wanted to tell you that we love what you do. And we loved how enthusiastically you were clapping for all the acts last night. So sweet, heart, heart. Sorry, how embarrassing is that? It's so embarrassing. What does that mean? So it's obviously enough that they've been like, oh my God, look how enthusiastically she's clapping.

May I've said this to you before, you do clap a lot. that you fucking love a clap it's happened a few times recently it happened at the live show when Candice finished a point and you went to go and clap and no one else clapped and then instead of just letting it go you were like guys why aren't we clapping

and I've got that on video and then it happened when we went out for dinner and I told the waitresses that it was your birthday and then they bought the cake over and you started clapping then you fucking love a clap I honestly I understand and you really do your

like a penguin or a seal, you're like, woohoo! I get it. I really do I love that for you. But yes, you're right, very embarrassing. But very embarrassing. What is your awkward, please? Well, my awkward is also aircraft related. Now, I've told you, I've said it, I've said it a million times. If I die and descend the fiery steps into hell, all that will be waiting for me is a roomful of people that weren't expecting me. Like, it's nothing makes me more uncomfortable in this life to arrive somewhere that I'm not supposed to be. You know, like, I already feel awkward in my body. I already feel quite big, like, as a person.

Like, I just feel like a presence, you know what I mean? So, like, when someone needs to get past me, I'm like, oh, God, I'm so sorry. Or, like, if I need to sit down and there's not space for me, I'm like, ah, like, I just, I'll stand, like, just don't, you know what I mean? Like, I just, I don't want to be there if you don't really want me there. You know what I mean? Like, and I don't want to go into a restaurant, and then I get into the restaurant, and there's no table, so I'm like, oh my God, this is my idea of hell.

like I need to know I need to walk into an empty room and have an assigned seat and it's going to stay on the seat and we're so happy that you're here please sit down so that's kind of like what I need and that's my love language anyway I got on the plane and as I'd said there's been some you know I was still in like disbelieved they were actually on this aircraft and I got to my seat 55K and 55H me and Alex and I got there and there were two other people in my seat but not both in my seat but not both in my seat. bomb was in my seatbox and I like to see obviously and these people like well I was like ha ha ha and we were like last on because I'd needed like you know just because we'd actually we'd have the debacle with my brother's COVID test so we were like we'd run you know and and my stupid bag was full because I had to buy my anti-estamines because I knew I'd get my stupid rashy feet and you know so I was like and I was already like I was already feeling so like big and flustered and I got there and there were these fucking people in my seat and I was like oh my god hello and I was like guys I'm so sorry I think I think you might be in my seat

and they were like nope and they literally just looked at us and they were like nope and we were like and no oh it's so bad like they would be literally and then they just looked back down at their phone like they were looking at something on one of their phones and I was like I think hi like I think you might be in our seats and they were like no and then just went back on their phones and we were like oh my god what do we do so then I just go back again I was like I'm really sorry but like can I look at your ticket and they were like I'm going to be like I don't like to say this about people but they weren't

that forthcoming with with their manners you know what I mean anyway and then they were like then then and I was like they've got to be wrong like they've got to be wrong because mine definitely says it it's today's date because that was a worry anyway yeah and then yeah they showed me their ticket and they were also

in 655 K and age you're joking no no double bot last time we came out here was 2019 and we got on the flight and there was a problem with the plane and we had to get off the flight just me and Alex my family were already out there we had to get off the flight and we didn't go out for the whole day we had to stay the night at Gatwick in the Hilton Hotel and I literally was like oh my god it's happening again it's happening again so I was like oh no this is hell and then obviously we're British and we've caused a commotion because we've asked to see

somebody else's tickets how rude yeah and then I'm there with my stupid overflowing basket with my stupid anti-histamine and my sun cream and we have to waddle back down the aisle you know it's just, it's like, well, because we've got our bags. I'm just waiting at the front of the flight. And then luckily, Alex is good looking and charming. And there was a lovely air, um, what are you? Air steward, um, called James, who was from Ireland, from Dublin as well, from around the corner to Alex.

And he was very nice, it gets more awkward because we were talking to James and we were like, buddy, like, hi, nice to meet you anyway. Um, but there's someone in, and then we were talking about Ireland and he was like, don't worry, I'll get sorted. And then he was thinking to say, he was like, he said, he was like, normally I'd upgrade you, but. this is literally a full flight. Like, there's no spare seats.

And I was like, oh God, James, don't do this to me. And then, and then this other person came onto the flight and was like, are you the people in 55K and H? And we were like, yes. And he was like, okay, come with me. And I was like, they're taking us off

and everybody's looking. Everybody's looking. And I was like, are you taking us off the flight? And he's like, no, no, don't worry. We can get you an upgrade. I was like, oh my God, what a turnaround. So I'm like, bye, fuckers. I'm going.

Go up. plane and we get up there to premium economy front row who's in our fucking seats but the people from 55K and H somebody else had gone to them the other air steward had gone to them and said there seems

to have been a mix up would you like an upgrade and they're taking them and they must have feckin round I tell you because they were then in our seats again and I haven't seen smugness until I saw that look they literally turned around and were like

ding and so then we were like oh my god so then we had to turn back around and walk the walk of shame but with the biggest smile on my face because I was still on the flight you know what I mean so I'm still like mostly happy but then also dying of awkwardness back down the aisle and everyone kind of gave us a sad look oh like oh you dream so big

you dream so big and look really the upgrade was dangled dangled. Yeah, these people, they were the bane of my flight. I was like, what? You are everywhere. That is really dramatic. I would not have enjoyed that at all.

I just hate being in an airport, in an airplane aisle at the best of times. For any reason, I don't like going to the loo. I don't like any of it because, you know, humans are too big for the space. And if you meet somebody coming the other way and you've got to awkwardly wait, if you're going to the loo, everybody knows that you're going to the loo. No one's got anything to do, so they might as well watch you. You know what I mean? So you dream about, like, getting that upgrade moment, you know, people are going to upgrade you, like, everyone, like, wants that moment, don't they?

Like, it obviously never happens, but it happened, and then it got taken away from you. I know. I know, and I literally walked past my family because we were all dotted around, like, my sisters were in front. My brother was, like, two reasons. I was like, bye, fuckers. See ya. I was like, your girls moving on up. And then it was like, your girls coming straight back down the slide.

this is the point in the episode where we talk about the guests and how great the episode was interview, not episode do you think we stopped doing it we just say here it is nah this is a really great interview

you're going to absolutely love it with sense it genuinely though so we're interviewing Natalie Lee from who is also known as Style Me Sunday on Instagram who is an amazing influencer that you have to follow

she's brilliant and after we finish this interview Nat said to us that that's the best interview that she's ever done and at the same time we said that was the best that was one of the best interviews that we've ever done

like it was so special and it was so moving and it was just amazing yeah it was and I'm really proud of it and it's a conversation we all cried we all cried it was a mess even fucking Daisy was gone

like it was yeah it was huge it was like what is happening with such a small room wise everybody crying but it was really empowering and I'm really excited for you to listen to it. We'll just shut up and let you listen to it. Yeah, let you listen.

Enjoy! Hi, everyone. Hello. Not everybody. Hello, Nat. Hi, Nat. Hi. Well, I meant like, hi everyone listening.

We're excited to welcome my friend, Nat, Natalie Lee, who is also one of my favourite influencers and we'll get into Y. Today, I'm going to go straight into it. We want to talk about sex. This is so good for Alex. This is putting us so far out of my comfort zone. Yes. So, so far out of my comfort zone.

So we want to talk about sex and specifically your journey from sexual shame to sexual freedom, which incidentally you have documented in your upcoming book, Feeling Myself. Yes, ma'am. Love it. Available for pre-order now, right? Yeah. Yeah, there you go. We'll put a link in the show notes.

Thank you. So as someone who grew up with a lot of shame around sex and still feels some, level of shame around sex. I can see squirming. I am squirming. I am squirming. I am squirming. Honestly, if you ever want to just have fun, just say words.

Say masturbate. Absolutely not. Just give me a minute. Let me get into this. Say mutterism. No, see, anatomy I'm okay with. But sex and sexual pleasure, I still, for me, there's a lot of shame around it.

So I'm excited to talk to you about it, excited and scared. I was very lucky to get my hands on a sneak preview of your book. and I'm so excited. I'm really excited. I mean, I out of everyone, I feel need it. M, you're less repressed. Less repressed than me. Reading it in the car this morning.

I was reading it out to you. Excitedly, like tripping over your words. I think this is going to be good for Alex. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This whole conversation is going to be good. Tell me what you thought. Tell me, yeah. Well, okay, so I struggled with her to start with this because there's two things.

but the introduction was, I mean, we went straight in. You went straight in, didn't you? With you in a flat in London, like I can picture. It was so visual. Like the depiction was so visual. You were lying on a white sheet and a woman put their finger inside your vagina. Why did you want to start with that? Why did you want to open the book?

Not the first time. Why did you want to open the book with that? I want to know. I mean, it was a great opening. Yeah, we were hooked. Yeah, great opening. That was a good pun. Oh, sorry. I'm embarrassed. I'm just going to resort to terrible puns. I feel your embarrassment. And I'm sorry for you that you feel that. But anyway, why did I start with it? Look, the opening of the book was, to me, is the most important

thing because you want to grab the reader in. And as you know, I've got ADHD and my attention needs to be grabbed, like, from the second I start reading. Otherwise, you know, if it's not within the first ten lines, then I'm done. Like, I can't get through the book. So it was important to me, yeah, to start with the Yoni massage, because also it's been a significant part of my journey. You know, I knew I had a lot of issues around sex and stuff, and I knew that there was a numbness there.

So I spoke to someone and she said, this would be really good for you. And I was like, what have I got to lose? The yoni massage this is. Yeah, okay. So yoni massage is... Yeah, can you explain what it is? It's a whole big ceremony.

Like, there's so much that goes into it. Obviously, the finger in the vagina bit is just a small part of it. But that part, she, you know, she's very, very hot on consent and she, like, her hand is nowhere near you before she, like, starts saying, is this okay? Is this okay? And it's very slow and gradual. And, you know, you're fully, fully relaxed before it, any penetration happens. And then she just kind of, like, puts her finger in and just goes round the sides of the vaginal wall. Like, massaging in small circles and most of it to be honest was really numb I didn't actually feel anything and I actually fell asleep because I was so relaxed it was so slow and I couldn't really feel much and she said that numbness is quite common especially if there's been some like sexual trauma yeah and and also probably because i've really struggled with disassociation and feeling in my body and you know my mind is usually elsewhere and i've struggled with feeling my

feelings and that has been a real big like how am i going to how am i going to bring this round you know how am I going to start feeling things and I have I have started to feel things but the problem with that is you feel the good things and you also feel all the bad feelings as well and trying to sit with that and not use like drink and drugs to like numb that which is what I have done in the past is like is what I'm trying to do now like just really sit with those uncomfortable feelings. It ain't fucking easy. No, no. And you said that that moment for you, that yoni massage was like a pivotal moment. And you said that it was the first time that you'd ever felt safe in a sexual

environment. Is that right? The I wouldn't view it as a sexual environment. Is it not? But no, it didn't feel very sexual. I didn't like, there was no orgasm and I didn't like feel sexual feelings towards her or anything like that. How interesting. If just, just thinking about it on a note, like, if it was an orgasm that equated to sex, like, isn't it funny, like, no women would have sex? Like, if you're like, if it would, if it was an orgasm that would make it, that make something or enjoyment or whatever that would make sex, sex, it's interesting that we refer to so much of our lives as sex, like a sex life when actually women don't enjoy so much of it.

Do you know what I mean? Oh, God, yeah. Like men wouldn't be like, oh, I had sex in their last night. It's like, well, you didn't because she didn't enjoy it. Like, or she didn't come, so then it would be like. I've done quite a bit on this, and it's about. like there's a huge pleasure gap. 100%.

It's even bigger than the gender pay gap. Oh my God, it's huge. So like 95% of straight men when they have straight sex come. That is some, I think it's 60, goes down to 60 something for a woman in that scenario. Even further down when she's not in a relationship with that person, it's like 40% of women orgasm during straight sex. If it's two women having sex, that goes right up, almost as high as a straight man. Really? Yeah.

Yeah. Every time. Every time. So we, I think as women have a problem owning that pleasure and demanding that pleasure. And that's something that I've been really looking into unpacking why we do. Yeah, we're kind of just, we're, we're, used to serving a man in a heterosexual relationship. Where the fuck is my pleasure is?

I'm not just a vessel for you to squirt you come in. That is such a visceral. That would be on my grace, though. But that's like my favourite thing about your Instagram. It's like I followed you for years and I really feel like we've been on this journey with you. It's like real empowerment when it comes to sex because I don't. I didn't, like, my own, my own shit just comes from being so fucking British and I'm just like, eh, sex, like, lights off, awkward, like, and we, and, and, and it's only been in

recent years, do you, I don't know if you remember in, like, the beginning of, um, January 2021, uh, when that shit all kicked off with Zoella where Zoe Sugg's website, they'd recommended sex toys on it and then she was dropped from the curriculum and it, like, catapulted this huge conversation about, like, female pleasure. and sex toys and Alex and I have talked about this in the podcast before but this really woke something up in me when I was like hang on a second like why have I never talked about orgasms, pleasure why are we never taught about this and it's right like you're right we are literally conditioned to believe that we are there to serve the man to lie there to become like basically

sex for a man finishes when he jizzes and sex for a woman finishes when she's pregnant like that's kind of how we're taught to view it and there's I just literally could sit and talk to you about this all day so please do yeah buckle in yeah it's a very very important topic and i like you had to push past the shame and push past the britishness because i was brought brought up in england and i went to catholic schools i was never taught like where the clitoris was I was never taught about female orgasms. I never spoke to my mum about sex, and I still struggle with that one,

even though I did buy her a vibrator for Christmas, but I still struggle with that one. I bought my mum and my sister's vibrators for Christmas because I was like, guys, you're not having good sex. Like, come on. What does she say, your mom? She didn't really say anything, but she did say, I wish you had warned me,

because we did it in front of grandma and she was like, what is that? Because it, you know, the vibrator I got, it wasn't dick-shaped, which I don't usually use dick-shaped vibrators. I think it's a bit of a myth that that's going to give you the most pleasure. Most people, you know, as you probably know, orgasm through official stimulation rather than penetration. There's a massive misconception there as well. Because again, when you talk about a dildo it's some just like yeah huge like long piece of silicon it's like what is that going to do for anybody but apart from her exactly so yeah we and we definitely have to like demystify all of these myths and just start talking like one of my um aims is to like set up

an organisation stroke charity that redefines sex education and you know probably not to children I would probably want to speak to adults

who can then inform their children because I think it's really important for the conversations to be happening at home I don't know if school is the best environment but still children need to know the names of things they need to know what's a vulva what's a vagina where's the clitoris you know and that's the biggest blocker to our pleasure and boys need to fucking know where the

clitoris is that's why we don't orgasm very much you know people need to be signposted there needs to be a big massive arrow like that's where you go um so yeah so that's one of my sort of ambitious if I get the time, is to talk about sex education to adults, but not just from a white heteronormative perspective. I want it to include everyone. Everyone needs to feel seen. What we're getting at the moment is woefully fucking inadequate. Primary schools don't have to teach sex education.

Can I ask, and we do want to get back to your journey, but I want to ask how you speak to your children about sex. Like what for you is the best way? Just like every day. Do you? When it comes up, don't shy away from it. When something comes on the telly, I don't cover their eyes, I don't turn off the telly.

I say this will be a really good conversation starter. Let's chat about it. I know that they're annoyed with me and embarrassed that I keep bringing it off. And I'm like, girls, just like touch yourself. Go in your bedroom. and masturbate. It's absolutely fine. I know that they get annoyed with me, but for me, the embarrassment and awkwardness I feel is important to plow on anyway,

because one day, eventually, they might be in a position where they didn't know that it was okay to say no, like I was. And I want them to feel that they have. autonomy over their body to know that they have a right to pleasure and to have the ability to be able to say no when it's not comfortable so that's amazing yeah I think like there's something so important in that and it's something that we've said about before on this podcast but it's like if with kids or with young women or with any women if you don't teach a woman to enjoy sex then you're teaching her not to enjoy it exactly and I find that really distress like the amount of us even generationally accidentally actually not even generationally because it's happened to so many generations gone by but it's like we've all been just sent out to have sex that we don't enjoy and and there are so many situations I think in so many women's lives that you would never wish for your kids and and it's so avoidable and and I think again so much it comes back to like the Bible and like all this old shit of like shame like women's pleasure is so shameful and you know I get this on Instagram so

so much if I ever do sex toy stuff or like talk about sex and again I am like an incredibly awkward human being so I think I I kick this conversation off in like quite an awkward way people always at least you're doing it I don't give a shit if it's all I'm like so guide what we're saying um but but my DM's always on the back of that I think probably because I'm so awkward and I'm oh my god I can be awkward too um but it's so often it's like why do I feel shame why do I feel dirty like for doing it and and so many women do have these it's like you are taught to feel dirty like boys i mean boys fucking jizz in socks and throw the socks on the floor and no one causes them dirty you know what i mean like they're just like being boys

but it's like a girl it's so fucked up the way that we are about it you know so many of like the words for our reproductive anatomy comes from words that are linked to shame like the uterus don't like quiz me on this now because I don't know the actual correct link but I know that like the uterus is linked to hysteria

and that's why we have a hysterectomy it's all linked to shame and there was there's a complete lack of knowledge about and research into female you know pleasure female reproduction

and anatomy and sexual organs there's just no focus on it it's like we just get left out of the conversation because we're not invited to the table. I was thinking about this last night I was having an argument with the woman in my DMs and she was saying that... I love a good argument in my DMs.

I was getting really, really annoyed actually and in the end I was like, I'm blocking her and I'm not carrying on because it's like talking to a brick wall but we were talking about she was saying that you know we shouldn't be talking about genders and gender ideology to kids

and you know they're too young and she was saying one day you'll understand when you're a mum you'll understand anyway not to make this about her but I wondered what you think about sex like how young like from what age should we be talking to kids about sex great question

I think that as long as a child is old enough to ask a question, they are old enough to get an appropriate response and something that isn't like, oh, a stalk came or, I don't know, what stupid, like, stories that are made up and it's like a cabbage patch thing or whatever. There's so many, like, weird stories going around. Why are we telling them lies? Like, why are we making up stories? If they're questioning things and asking questions, they deserve truthful answers. And answers that will ultimately protect them, right? Because if you don't talk about it, they don't know that what somebody might do to them is wrong. So it's such an important topic. It's not just this surface

level, oh, you know, I'm not talking about sex because they're too young. It's a fucking safeguarding issue. And that's why I'm so passionate about it. I'm sorry. I get really. I get really like no right but as well it's like I realize how confusing it is

but thinking about it in the context of like when you go out like to the club or whatever it's so which we don't do any more famously

to the club that it should please don't laugh so hard I'm cool I'm down with the kid it's fine but when

thinking about those times I'm going to say it again that I would go to the club with girls it's very confusing to want something and to know that you want something or to know that you need to be wanted because on the one hand we're sold

like you've got to be sexy and like sexuality is a power and like your wiles, your womanly wiles like you can trap this man and you're going to win this man and you're going to look the produce and it's very confusing to have that message on one side so you're like

I know I need the man to want me I know I need the man to whatever but then there's this like total block about what happens then and it's a very confusing I suppose like fear that you'll feel because on one side you're literally taught to prioritize and want their attention.

But on the other hand, so much of their attention can make us feel so uncomfortable. And I think that's, I completely see it from a safeguarding. How do you wrestle with that? Yeah, I see what you're saying. I think because we've been sort of brought up to feel like our worth is linked to a man, we feel, and you know, our sexual power is often as a kid,

the only power you do start to develop, do you know what I mean? It's something very visceral that you, you know, I learn, how old was I? I think I was about 12, you know, I was in a supermarket with my mom, walking around in leggings and then this like seafood crochet thing. And this man who was with his wife and children was visibly like open-mouthed, like, like perving over me and I was like oh like I felt powerful because somebody was like really affected by my appearance and as a kid that's that that kind of messaging is so fucked up but that's how that is like it's it's powerful to us and it's really hard to dissect that and then you feel

shame about it like then as later on you start to feel shame about that but i i you you unpack it and you learn to understand that actually you know there's so much going on there's so many like layers and nuance to this it's not as simple that's interesting because i kind of had an opposite experience but like i developed early like i always had the biggest boobs i remember everyone was always in primary school was like fascinated because i have boobs and i hated them and i hated the tension I got from boys and then men I despised it and I still I still to this day have a slight hunch because and I ended up getting a breast reduction um because I couldn't bear a man's eyes on me yeah on my on my chest like in a sexual way it just I hated it but then at the same time

all my peers was so jealous of me you've got big boobs all the boys love it it's so exciting and I was like I don't it was really confusing yeah it was like I hate it actually don't want anyone to look at me in that way like it just it didn't feel and also you feel like a kid yeah like that's the really difficult thing we epitomize youth you know we we we kind of like there's this fetishization I can't say it we fetishize yeah um like virginity for example and like you know the younger looking woman and that is really a a bit weird and odd and it's like as you grow older you then become in society's eyes less significant because you're you come and you're told you're less attractive and you know

wrinkles are undesirable and and that's the narrative that I think is really important for us to challenge because that whole fucking virginity concept is a fucking myth anyway it's a social concept and it's not real like you know if you haven't been penetrated by a penis every in your whole life does that mean you're averging for your whole life hell fucking no there's so much to it like and sex is not just a penis in a vagina sex encompasses so much that's i i wish we talked more about that because again when i talk about it on my instagram sorry for sufferers of like conditions like vaginismus which often come from trauma but often just exist like so a lot of women just can't have comfortable sex penetrative sex and I and I

talk to some of my friends about this I talked to some of my followers about it and they feel so much like shame around this like like they're failing like they can't provide this whatever and it's like and and it's like oh we're not having sex or we're not whatever it's like it's it's coconuts isn't it because what's that saying about lesbians for example like you of course you still have sex. So it's such a, I was bullshit with all, it's all, you know, the heteronormative virtue of virginity. It's all just no offence to the Bible, but it's kind of the Bible's come up with a lot of this stuff. What do we know offence? Fucking yes. Offense to the Bible. Okay, fine. Honestly. Religious has so much to answer for.

Okay. It's disgusting how it has in imposed shame on us and used as a form of control. it's it's you know something that we have to override and get rid of and unpack every single day and that's why I you know I want to speak about this and communicate and give a more rounded sex education you know can we talk about your Instagram sure because because you talk about this brilliantly on your Instagram but we were talking about it in the car on the way here you have spoken about masturbation and that. But then you've also said on the back of that that you've lost followers

and you've had a lot of like beef from people for talking so openly about it. And I'd like love to talk to you about kind of what it's like to share this stuff but also what that reaction is like when you do. And for sharing pictures, right? Where you're actually covered but it's, do you call it a nude?

I don't know what do you? It's like semi-nude, isn't it? A semi-nude. Yeah. But I remember you're saying like you lost lots of followers off the back of that. And you've got lots of comments about it. Yeah.

Any time I show my tits or my ass on Instagram, like I lose people. But I'm all right with that because they're not my people. And, you know, I think it, I can be confronting. I can be challenging. I'm like, if you are triggered by this, maybe you should wonder why you're triggered by this. Do you know what I mean? And I know. That can come across as quite abrasive, but I don't know how else to say it.

I'm not going to pussyfoot around you just because me, like, showing my tips on Instagram is offending you or makes you think that I'm up myself or, you know, because I assume that's what it is. They're like, oh, for fuck sake, why won't you put it away? And I won't put it away because there's so much shame attached to the female body. They're fucking just nipples. They are just like fingers. It's just another part of the body.

Why can't we show them? Why can't we like talk about them? And, you know, it's like, oh, if you've got your cleavage out, it means that you are enticing men and they can't control themselves. No, they can fucking control themselves. It's not my job to control you. It's all I'm doing is having a body. That's it.

So stop now. Stop with the police. me. I do have to say, because initially I did find those kind of things. Oh, God, you're going to say you're one of them. No, no, no. Who unfollowed me? Can you not check?

She's gone. Have you not done that? You've unfollowed someone really quickly. And then you're like, oh fuck, I'm going to have to fucking see them and they're going to know. No, no, no. But like, initially I did, I found your content confronting, but I was aware that it was nothing to do with you. it was my stuff and it's interesting now I don't find any of that you don't stuff confronting anymore

when I say like I'm like I'm repressed or like I don't feel comfortable to share stuff in public like on my platform and that's why you got me here right yeah yeah you can do it for me exactly and I would never impose that on anyone I think everyone only does what they're comfortable with I think it's really great that you are able to say you're not comfortable with you're not comfortable with it these are my boundaries like people often don't know what their boundaries are i'm comfortable with it and you know that's cool yeah and your content's brilliant honestly and it's been a huge part of opening my eyes i'm probably making me feel a lot less shame that's that's really important and i and i and i want to say that i found it confronting for anyone who's listening

who does find it confronting to like sit with that and like you were saying before i lean into that uncomfortable. That's a nice way of saying it. I need to say it like that. Leading to that uncomfortability. Like, is this, this woman isn't doing anything wrong. So why do I find it confronting? It's got to say something about me.

And I think that's, yeah, that's important. And it develops yourself awareness, right? Totally. And that's all I, I'm trying to do that all the time. I'm trying to, I'm trying to grow, I'm trying to change, I'm trying to evolve, I'm trying to open. my eyes and, you know, all of these kind of things that have been attached to me and imposed on me, I'm trying to fucking tell them to fuck off and unpack and, but it's so

hard. I'm not saying I've got all the answers. I'm not saying I will always be right. I know for 100%. I mean, if it's an argument with somebody, I am always right. In terms of like what I present, I'm not going to get it right all the time. I'm going to fuck up. I'm going to make mistakes. Hopefully I'm better at owning my mistakes now. I will, you know, publicly say if I got something wrong. I have, I get triggered.

I have visceral reactions to things. We all do because of our past experience. and sometimes I've done things that have not been the right way to go about it but then the learning comes in when you acknowledge that and you own it that's all we can do

that's a big part of shame as well like admitting that you're wrong and growing and I think as well particularly with sex like there's a lot of shame attached to like wrong decisions or past behaviours or like you know so much of the sex that we have as teenagers or young adults it's like maybe not sex that we'd want we wanted to be having then we certainly like are not

proud to have had now or you know like and I think a lot of women carry their shame about like making the perceived wrong decision and then standing up and saying like oh or even ever dealing with the fact that they were uncomfortable or that it was wrong and I find that like a really hard thing because that is a burden that we carry and so many women carry without ever addressing it and it's a burden that men for the most part don't have to and i and i think that's really hard i don't know how graphic i can be as graphic as you're on if you want me to be graphic i'm going to be graphic right now you wouldn't have read this yet but i talk about one incident in my book where I had been out all night, stayed over at someone's house and

woken up with a cop in my mouth. And I didn't stop it. And I felt a huge amount of shame around like eventually like coming to realising it wasn't somebody. else and and then not saying anything because I didn't want to make a fuss you know that has that stayed with me I internalised the shame that somebody did to me and so many of us have had things done to us that we feel ashamed about and that's where it's so fucked up yeah yeah I think you're talking before about you know like your boobs and stuff like I always had I always had boobs and I always as a teenager like I dressed

because on the other side of this we have this like crippling insecurity around our bodies and I was always so embarrassed about my figure but I thought all my boobs are good so like I'd always kind of dress to show that bit off I guess

and like and then you do feel like you deserve whatever attention that you get and I had some horrible horrible situations as a teenager and I think back at now

and I'm like oh my God and still I'll carry it as a grown up and I'm like I was asking for it or I was dressed a certain way or I was drunk and whatever and I think and also you get to a point now you get to a point as a grown up and you went well who do I tell I don't remember who that was I don't remember exactly you know I don't you know what's going to change if I talk about those things because I don't even know these people they've gone to me but you know that comes about because of the kind of stories that we see in the media for example like victim blaming you know or the insinuation like you

she was wearing like jeans and a top and she was white and she had a good job. It doesn't fucking matter what she was wearing, what she looked like. She could have been naked running down the street. She didn't ask you to rape her. There's a basic, you know, holding up underwear in a court hearing, in a rape here, like a rape trial. It's disgusting. It's disgusting.

that what somebody wears as underwear means that that has any significance in whether it's right or wrong. Yeah. Yeah. And it's no wonder then that we do feel uncomfortable, sorry out, but even with like, you know, if you had it, when we're sold like being sexy for your partner or spicing up your sex life, it's all like wear this lingerie, wear whatever. And it's like there's this like more than just body insecurity. There's like a fear or a discomfort, I suppose, of. sex fear of enjoying sex and I think that's something that I'm so interested in the hearing from you

about because you have been on this journey yourself kind of from this numbness and I don't want to put words in your mouth but there's like I don't know if it is a fear but or this this real discomfort and numbness to now like fuck it like you know and you're on Instagram and you're completely like leaning leaning into it and I wonder like what that journey's been like or that's such a huge question but I guess maybe I mean I'm still on the journey yeah I'm still on the journey but I think that's why self-pleasure is a really big thing for me because that has helped me reconnect to my body it's helped me understand what I like what I don't like I feel safe with myself so I've been able to explore a bit easier than I have been with a partner

So I think, you know, I'm just like pushing the agenda, like just fucking touch yourself, please, in privacy, I say to my kids, in privacy, but as much and as often as you want to. And if you don't want to, obviously that's okay too. But how are you going to be able to communicate your needs with a partner if you don't know them, if you haven't explored them? and kind of masturbation came quite late to me in life. But now, I mean, fuck me. I mean, there's no going to that. I'm making up for lost time. Can I ask how late?

Yeah, I think, like, in terms of, like, consciously, actively doing it, I would say I was definitely in my 30s. Wow, that is quite late. I did used to do it, like, I think. Do you know what? It's really hard for me to remember. It was never a thing before, but I actively started doing it more in my 30s because I had had children and I was seeing things now through their eyes. And because before I felt so much shame about masturbation, I honestly thought if anyone knew what I was doing, they wouldn't like me.

They would think I was dirty. they would not think I was a good person. And that is shame. That is it. You internalize that feeling of not being good enough, of feeling unworthy. It's an internalised shame. So yeah, once I had children, I was just like, hold on.

Like, everything you're thinking is so fucked up and so, like, is that you? Or is that what has been imposed on you? So that's, I'm starting to unpack it and self-pleasure for me is probably the biggest part of it because it led to so much more, it gave me confidence, it increased my self-esteem, it increased my ability to communicate my needs, not just in the bedroom, it communicate my needs in every single day life, which is why I feel like sex education is so important. Because, yeah, it just, it goes into everything.

I feel like we are jumping around, sorry, with your timeline a bit. And the book. I think it would be remiss not to acknowledge what you talk about in the first chapter, which is called trauma. You know, you've talked about, like, what contributed to your sexual shame, you know, you being British. But you also suffered a really. really huge and traumatic incident which informed your mentality around sex.

And I think that's, you know, that's, I mean, it's big. How do I do this? How do I do this justice? It's really hard. Well, I'll just say, like, when I read that, I mean, I had no idea. I don't know if you've spoken about it publicly before. I haven't. And I had no idea. And I was like, flawed. like beyond it's just i don't think there's any words to describe like how traumatic that is and if you are able to just for anyone listening who well they won't know because okay so i won't like i won't say what it is but i will kind of hint it towards it yeah like when i was four years old basically a really traumatic event happened to me and my mom

you know the reason why i won't go into it is because it wasn't just my experience and i have to be very careful that yes it was in the book and yes it's going to be out there that i all of that i had to get signed off by my mom we had to have therapy over it because this is something that go will be going out okay and that made a massive difference to our relationship because there was a lot of disconnect between us and kind of unspoken stuff had your mom had therapy about previously she's had therapy we've both had therapy separately but we've never had therapy together okay and this book enabled us to have therapy together and start to talk about something we never spoke about um so if you have a traumatic event be your kind of introduction if you will

into sex that is going to impact you your whole life that is going to be no wonder I felt ashamed it was never spoken about again people you know it was just kind of pushed

away we went to the police station and the police were very dismissive and you know it's it's no wonder I've got so much fucking like shit to to unpack and I'm not you know I'm not the only one there's so like sexual trauma is so

prevalent reading what you know what you said what happened to you in your book and it you and you were so young but what you said there just about you know this um sex sorry I'm trying to get the words out you take a breather it's okay it's a big it's a huge It's huge, and it's the thing that terrifies me is that it's for a lot of, it's unimaginably traumatizing at any time. But when it's in these formative years, when it's your first look at sex that's like this, how do you, and I'm not putting this question to you. So how do you, no, I just mean societally, I don't know how, like I don't know how we've got to a point where it's so fucked up. I mean it's always been so fucked up I can't believe that we've got to this

and everyone's like oh we're equal now and everything's fine it's like it's not fucking fine there's nothing fine about this I can't tell you how many of my friends have been through people that I love have been through and continue to

these calls come in all the time these things are happening all the time and the thing that is so scary is that it happens to girls so young who perhaps can't even label what's happening because the language that we use is so rudimentary

and it's all just ridiculous. Yeah, I think, listen, I think as well as men's, not just men, but ultimately a majority of men, as well as their inability to know where our clitoris is, unprocessed trauma is the biggest blocker to pleasure. And so it's really difficult for, a lot of people who have had traumatic experiences to be able to be present during sex and moments of intimacy.

It's really difficult. How can they experience pleasure if it's linked to something so traumatising? So that has to be processed and that's different for everyone. Depends on what your funds are. It depends on how accessible it is to you. you but they're there you can process it you know what what I have learned along the way and this might not work for everyone is that not speaking about things doesn't work yeah it only makes you feel shame about it I'm going to I feel emotional right now sorry

it is really difficult to start to talk about something so traumatic but it It's really important in order to process it and to overcome. You will never like overcome it or forget it. But in order for you to be able to not see sex as just something that is traumatic, to be able to not just feel numb and disconnected, you have to face it. You have to talk about it with it. of therapist or talk about it with somebody safe, you have to feel safe, you know, don't just

push it away because you will never get to a place where you experience real pleasure and happiness and that's what I've learned along the way. It's, it's, you almost feel like it's, you're going to open up a Pandora's box by, by looking at it, facing it, and talking about it but I promise you if you've been through any sort of trauma like this you've survived the worst already opening up about it it will be hard and it will take a long time and go really really slowly with it but I promise you it you will survive this you will get through it and there is huge amounts of benefits to looking at it and facing it. Yeah, God.

I'm so sorry for you, not, for like what you've... I mean, you know, been through. It's just, yeah, terrific. But thank you for sharing it with us. Are you okay? Yeah, yeah, of course I am. Are you okay? Sorry, I just, yeah.

You know what? I think it would be weird. If we didn't feel emotional about talking about this, it's important that the people listening hear that emotion in our voices because it is fucking painful and traumatic if you spoke about it like you were reading a menu then you weren't connecting to it you weren't you haven't processed it I think as well like the thing the really hard thing is like having the conversations you do society you know about the society in general and the way that it is I think the the worst thing

the worst thing about being a woman in my opinion is knowing that the threat is consistently there so you can do all of this work and it's still there's still a fear and that's the thing that you know it's so i'm so excited to see like empowerment and like massivation and and like everything big female pleasure being prioritised and spoken about but you know the the terrifying thing on the back of that is the rhetoric that surrounds it societyly, you know, because on Instagram, for the most part, like, we're kind

of thriving in our little bubbles with our great people, you know, but the way that obviously, you know, I'm so aware, I said this to you before, like, when I do sex toy out, if I ever put a sex toy near my face or in a suggestive place or whatever, if I ever pose with a sex toy, I know that if I'm ever harassed, if I ever open up about anything I've ever been through, If I ever talk about sexual assault, anything, those images will be used as a way of undermining my point and, you know, basically, they'll be weaponised against me. It's absolutely disgusting. And it is disgusting, but it's something that I, it's like, it's such a, you have to think about. But it's something that we all have to think about because although it, although it's, you know, like on a ridiculously weird, like kind of place for me and for a lot of us online, it is the, okay, so you want to be sexy, you want to be in power, you.

want to go out and you want to like, you know, own your pleasure and be excited and whatever, but you're taking this new belief that we have as women, you know, as educated, you know, we've learned this bit and it's really cool, but you take it into an old-fashioned world and that's hard and I wonder how you feel with that. And that leaves you open to ridicule and, you know, criticism and yeah, just like misogynistic views doesn't it and that's hurtful and that's painful and it's another it can be another form of trauma you know you are opening yourself up for that so you have to really be very firm and centered in your abilities and your capabilities in being able to do that and be you know

wise to the fact that people will say things and do things and it's almost like you have to put on this protection bubble around you and just be like I'm talking about obviously social media I'm talking about our world but I'm aware

that just being sexually empowered in life generally does open you up and it is unsafe it doesn't feel safe but if no one does it nothing's going to change so we have to balance that up constantly and you're right it's unfair

it's fucking unfair yeah there's something really fucking freeing and just saying that like we don't have to sit here and try and work out an answer as a group we can just like it is unfair it sucks like it's so annoying can I just say something I just I'm very aware

that we're talking about really sensitive triggering topics right now and I just I just want, you know, people to be aware that, like, they can stop this at any time. They can, like, they don't have to listen to the whole thing right now. If this is bringing up memories for you, like, stop it and come back to it when you feel able to, if you want to at all, talk about it. Talk about it with people close to you.

It's a really good point, and we'll put a trigger warning in the... You're okay, yeah. no no it's fine it's just like it's so fun don't oh god everybody's gone it's just so it's just so true and it's just so infuriating yeah oh god we're all off it is unfair like isn't it i just i don't know but i feel like on the back of it because i i actually think although your story is so sad and and and horrible and unfair and unjust it does really feel looking at you like there is a happy ending

I promise you there is a happy ending I promise you the book is not all but you're not tear and trauma that's what I'm saying like you're fucking fantastic and I was actually I didn't think this episode would make us cry because I thought we just make

Alex squirm instead but you know we still got some time left for that but you know that's that's life that's the beauty of life isn't it? It's like tears and happiness and laughter and all of that can happen can coexist at the same time. Yeah. And that's what's beautiful. You can, you know, you can have a joke and,

you know, still laugh while still being traumatised. It's important to just communicate. Don't worry that, you know, it might feel too heavy that you can't laugh. We can absolutely laugh and be happy and make you and say yes it is fucking unfair and be angry about it as well it's really healthy to be angry yeah and what you're saying is so true like the bad has to exist with the good it does but it doesn't have to but it does that's not binary that we're in it's not and yeah we we have to get comfortable with both yeah and but yeah moving on your book is I just I want it now I want it now and actually it's out the same day is mine which is a chart battle no no who will this podcast advocate for i am undecided

do you know what i'm really yeah i'm like yeah there's room for everyone man there is room for everyone yeah and i can't wait to read your book because i know whatever you put out into the world is so thoughtful and you've really you really take care i know you get a lot of shit you get a lot of We all get it, we all get it, right? But we, we try and do it in the right way with what we've got, don't we? We think about it hard. It's not just like, we don't just put out any old shit. There's stuff that's gone into it.

And like you were saying, like all three of us, like we all make mistakes and we all make mistakes publicly. But at least we're tackling this. subjects that need tackling, you know, yeah, that they are hard and we will make mistakes and what my point was which I didn't actually get to because my head just goes really all around houses is that I'm really excited to read your book because I know it's going to be good because I know what you produce already is good and yeah like that they're both good buy both of them for fuck's sake daisy do you mind just like clipping that little bit and sending i'm just kidding but i feel i feel it's really important not to i don't get that kind of competition

thing i don't understand it like i don't i don't get why people don't promote other people and like like we're in this together this is this is not an easy space for us to be in so why aren't we coming together and if we like something that someone else is producing you give a shout out to them you like absolutely but in life I love that

you see someone's outfit on the bus that you love it's like tell them that you love their fucking outfit I think as well the sex stuff is linked to it I suppose to an extent because we've been taught we've been women have been conditioned to believe we are in competition for the male attention so we can't be friends like this is you know

but that's what I I really take from your page as there's like so much female empowerment. Before we run out of time, I need to ask you about, like, enjoying sex because I feel like so much of what you talk about online is that you enjoy, you know, that you've got, you're feeling yourself now, right? You're feeling myself. I know, I always want to sing it and I'm like, no, it's really sad. Don't do it.

Go on, Anne. Give us a verse. Go on. Can you sing? Can you sing? Not for shit, no. But guys, Alex can sing and she wants everyone. Can you want to know?

Oh, you're joking? Any chance? Go on sing it. Oh, look at her. Yeah, absolutely not. Oh, please I'm shy. But, yeah, I just think it's good for us to have like a bit of lighthearted in this because you have got, like, a very. There's loads of lighthearted.

There is. Yeah. I think I've just, I got to stragg, I got sad. But I want to talk to you now about like your, your sex life now, basically. Oh. Because you enjoy sex now, right? I do. Thank you.

very much. Good. Actually, that's all I need you to say. It just is so good to hear that. You know, all the time, or sometimes when you're not enjoying it. No, sometimes, like, okay, so, you know, one of the reasons that there isn't a pill, like Viagra for women, that actually fucking works is because most of our pleasure is in our head. So there are times through no fault of the other person that I don't necessarily enjoy it

because my brain is not allowing me to be present in the moment. That's the only time I don't enjoy it now. Yeah, like it's not their performance is very good. But I will say that, you know, at the moment, I'm not having a lot of sex with a partner. I'm having a lot of sex on my own, which is also really good. And I have had probably, have I, wait a minute. I'm just, see, sorry, because I'm like, my brain is going, have I had the best sex on my own or with a partner? Good question.

That's what I'm, like, racking my brain to kind of untangle. and I honestly don't think I can answer that because I need to give it some real good thought. But, yeah, I like sex on my own. I like sex with men and I like sex with women. And I enjoy it a hell of a lot more now than I have ever done in my whole life. If you think that sex doesn't get more enjoyable with age,

then you need to reevaluate that thought because there's so much freedom and wonderful things that come with getting older and one of those is confidence is the ability to know yourself more. There's so much, there's so many benefits to getting older that, you know, I think we need to stop fucking epitomising youth and start to think that, Actually, I do want to be older. I really do because you're going to probably, from my experience, enjoy sex a lot more than you ever have done when you were young.

The sex I was having when I was young was so fucking shit. It was unbelievable. Now I know where my clitoris is. I can communicate that to my partner. I can do it on my own. I have the ability and the confidence to try different things and if I don't like it, I can say no. So that increases my pleasure tenfold.

So yes, I do. Thank you. Good. Love it. What a way to finish. Oh my God. Thank you so much now. My pleasure.

That was amazing. That was amazing. You are amazing. That was like one of the best interviews I've ever had. I think that's one of the best interviews we've ever done. I feel a lot. That was beautiful. Thank you so much for coming and for sharing your story.

And everyone has to go and pre-order Nat's book. Thank you. The show notes. And pre-orders make a massive difference to the success of the book. So it would be wonderful if you did pre-order. Do it. Thank you. You have to do it.

Hello, we're back. I am going to kick off with an embarrassing story. This is something that if I think about too much it can keep me up at night, the thought that at some point in my life I might do something similar to this. It literally keeps me up at night, makes my face go bright red, and makes my organs all sort of clench. I was at the evening reception of my boyfriend's friend's wedding, where I was meeting all of his friends for the first time. A few minutes after I arrived, the bride and groom were cutting the cake. I was stood watching with my boyfriend

and a few of his close friends and their partners one of his friends quietly said God that cake is terrible to which I replied it really is it looks like a child has made it because she says it really was awful and she puts in bracket sorry I know that's really mean to say

carry on with the story at which point the friend said I was joking Sophie made that and gestured to his wife standing next to him, I could have spontaneously combusted there and there. In my shock, I couldn't even come up with anything to style it out, so I just went quiet and joined another group of people. Right, sorry, right, unless that cake looked like the Sistine Chapel of wedding cakes,

he should not have said that, because he is opening up the door for facts. Do you know what I mean? Like, you know when we're looking at a good cake and when we're looking at a chickcake, and if you're looking at a fabulous cake, you can obviously say, Or it's a shit cake. But if you're looking at a shit cake and you say it's a shit cake, what comes next is, I mean, I'm loath to say you're asking for it. But at the same time,

he did set himself up to that, how bad is that, though? Oh, poor Sophie. Poor Sophie. I know. And she was right there. So he was obviously saying it to her, like, ha-ha, shit cake. So not only is she made a shit cake, but everybody can see it. And it's the first time

She met his His friends You know, it's just Yeah, you fuck that Yeah, you're the bitch That was worried about the cake That Sophie made You can't really

Oh no babe You just can't really get away from that I don't think you can really live that down No, I didn't think it was your fault I think it was Sophie's boyfriend's fault He shouldn't have If we're gonna be thrown He shouldn't have set it up

He should have set it up To be fair He was probably saying it to his wife Being like ha ha ha shit cake babe oh my god's so uncomfortable i'm so sorry okay i have an awkward story which well an embarrassing story which well it's it's it's all around uncomfortable to be honest but i just want to i want to i want to i want to read the room and i want to i basically i need to know how involved betty is in your sex life i'm just giving you a pre-warning because that's where this is going okay hi alex and em

so i have a funny story that i wanted to share with you uh which i was reminded of when listening to you guys talk about inappropriate things at dogs have eaten now actually I've decided I'm not going to read this out because she hasn't started the email telling us that she know dismiss never mind she said she says it she says it she says it at the end don't we're not ideal but we'll make it work there is a very clear template guys when you're email it you say hi you say I love the podcast and then you say what you have to say we are so needy um okay it's every funny story starts I was seeing this guy from Tinder about this time last year, it was very much a casual relationship as he'd broken up with its

girlfriend of five years the previous summer. However, he still co-parented his little Westie with her. That's a little West Highland Terrier for anyone who's not a fay with every single breed of dog ever. Weirdos. She liked to sleep in the bed, which was cute at first, but got very awkward and we wanted to have sex, especially as this dog most probably had watched him in his previous partner having sex. This dog has seen too much. So one day he was getting down to business And in the moment, I thought he was licking my leg. However, when I looked down to my horror, I realised it was actually the dog licking me,

not what I imagined my first threesome to look like. Fast forward till after we had finished, and suddenly we heard this chewing noise, only to look down, and see that the dog was trying to chew and rip apart the used condom on the floor. I was mortified. But please tell me that I am not the only one

that's had something like this happen to me. Also, love you guys in conversations and advice to really help me to manage living with a housemate and some quite sexist and archaic beauty. Thank you. Too little too late, but thank you. Wait, the dog ate the condom. I mean, where does Betty go when you have your fun in your life? It's an issue.

Yeah, it's an issue because she doesn't like it. I think she thinks there's an attack happening. And so she howls. Oh my God, that's a soundtruth. It's a worst, like, calm the sutras. It's not good. It's the beagle hell. Literally the beagle hell. It's, it's, it's not good. Yeah, I don't have a solution as yet. What about Bua? Yeah, Bua just looks really pissed off. She just looks pissed off. You and I've actually randomly spoken about this before. Bua just looks really shirty. She just looks like, oh, fuck off. Yeah, I, I don't, that's definitely not you. It's a thing. It's a real thing. And if anyone has any advice, please let me know. Okay, anything else for me? So, I have, and is it just me? Morning ladies, hope you're both thriving and I'm loving the podcast. See, this girl knows that we are fragile and needy. Is it just me that can't seem to distinguish between ditching

diet culture and participating in PT sessions or fitness classes? In my past, going to the gym has always been to beast my body and to hope to shed weight. I find it really difficult to differentiate between them now. When will I feel like going to the gym and fitness classes is for fun and health rather than weight loss. And I actually think you're well placed to answer this because I feel like you're actually one of the people who genuinely has that relationship with exercise where you do it for you rather than for weight loss.

I actually have a lot of thoughts on this because you sent it in that message there that you, like when will you find gym class is fun? And that implies to me that you're not finding them that fun. and if that's the case then I don't think they will magically become fun the first thing to recognise is that like it's horses for courses isn't it?

Like not everybody's going to enjoy the same shit you know like I fucking love running and so many people just think it's the absolute pit and you know like I can till the cows come home like lads I love running come run with me running's the best and if you just hate running you just hate running like if you hate the gym

you hate the gym like I like a very specific kind of gym class I like spinning but then there's some stuff that I absolutely hit. I'm going to just put this out. I can't see the fucking point in yoga. Like, I just can't. It's just not for me. And I'll keep trying. I'll keep trying and I'll like, when am I going to get this? When am I going to get this? And then I just have to accept I'm probably not going to get it. So realistically, it has to be fun. But for me, like a really big part of, like, I mean, my whole life was particularly like in my early 20s when I, when I did start exercising for the first time, it was totally about losing weight. Like literally, like,

I was just doing sit-ups because I wanted to have abs. And I was cutting out these stupid articles in magazines and whatever, like the best exercises to burn this and blah, blah, blah. And I did all of that. And like to an extent it worked, but I mean, I was fucking hungry and the hate of the gym and whatever. But I then, in 2019, I get to mention it again. What a fucking treat.

In 2019, I ran my first marathon. But it was in training for that that changed everything because it stopped being about what my body looked like and became about what my body could do. and not just from like a oh like how cool like I can pick up 20 kilos it's like what I need my body to be able to do like if you set off on a run you need to be able to get home again theoretically i mean you know you can get a cab or someone to pick you up or you can walk but you know when you're doing the training it's like I need to do this like I need to get my body to a point where it can do this and you just then don't have the time to start brating it for like or not even the time but the inclination like when you start pushing and doing things that you know never thought you could do. The last thing I wanted to do was like come back and look at myself and be like, you fucking useless piece of shit, which is how I'd always spoke with my body before, because I was like, you're not you. That was epic. Like, that was the coolest thing I've ever

seen. I always had like the biggest disassociation and like, I really struggled to get my mind and my body to catch up with each other when I was, when I was training. And I really noticed this process because about halfway through the training for my first marathon, I, they always say like 16 miles is like the the distance like that's like the and it certainly was for me it was one that absolutely broke me and like that's the hardest thing and when you're doing that I mean like that's super far you know it's crazy anyway when after I did that I got back and I remember and it was so so much further than I ever could have imagined running and it was a physical it was fucking destroyed me like it was a harder thing and I remember really getting upset to Alex and my mom being

like I'm not ready I can't do this I can't run a marathon I can't I can't I can't I can't I can't can't. And I occurred to me that the reason I was thinking this wasn't because I physically couldn't do it because I think if you can do 16 miles, you can do 26 miles. I don't know why. That's just my logic. But it wasn't that I couldn't do it because I had just proved to myself that I could. I didn't think I could do it because I didn't think I looked like what a marathon runner should look like. And what I mean by that is I still had fat rolls. And I think I thought when I get to a certain point of this training, I'll, like, bing, and I'll look like, whatever. And then I finished the marathon, and I still was exactly, if anything, I gained weight. And then same again with, I actually

lost weight between it, and then gained it again when I was doing the marathon, because you just have to eat a fuckload, you know what I mean? Like, you've got to fuel your body. And it just completely shift. I literally looked at myself, and I was like, this, this is, for the first time, completely irrelevant. And it had never been irrelevant. I'd never let it be irrelevant. I'd never let it be irrelevant because it was always in my mind in the gym because it was always the agenda but it was like realizing that I had to take and strip back everything because it was it couldn't be about how I looked like because it had to be about what I could do and I'm not saying that the answer to this question is to run a marathon I don't think you can love something that you

do because you hate yourself personally so if you only exercise because you hate this and you hate that and you want everything to be different, then I don't think you're going to find enjoyment. That doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. You know, it might still be good for you and, you know, in your head and whatever, but I don't think you're going to find enjoyment. So the first thing is to find something that you can do with kindness, you know, if the gym for you is just about fucking beating yourself and beasting yourself and whatever, then it's probably not good for your body or good for your brain because it's just too much. But the second thing is, and this is like the most important thing, it really has to be.

be, and I'm not saying that everybody has to run a marathon, but the reason that I was able to create a good relationship with it is because I was doing something that genuinely made me feel really good and that has to be your priority. If you're just going to the same gym that you've always gone to and doing the same workouts that you've always done, it's natural that you're going to keep focusing on your body because that was, you know, why you started and what you focused on. Maybe doing something new will be good for you and finding something you actually genuinely enjoy that isn't about the calories. You know, for me, cycling was always amazing because I was out with my friends. I went spinning with my, you know, I booked to go to spin class with my

friends or go to different boxing classes well away from my house. And then it stopped being about going down the road to the same gym, to do the same shit with the same results. And it became about new experiences, new friends, new fun, endorphins. And that for me was a massive part of getting rid of diet culture. And now I just realized how happy I am. when I'm unlocking endorphins. And don't get me wrong, I love having muscley shoulders. I'm currently missing my ass, like genuinely missing an action. No one's seen that since the end of 2020.

But that, and that does get me down a bit. I'm just a bit like, like, it's not the body that I love, and it's not the body that I love, not because of how it looks, but because I know that it's not as strong as it once was, and that makes me upset, but not in the same way. So, to be honest, I could have said that in about three sentences, rather than about three minutes but the crux of it is it doesn't sound that you're enjoying it that much so you need to go and find something that you enjoy and the sacrifice might be a six-pack

but what you'll gain is confidence happiness excitement joy and the ability to be kind to yourself so if this mic was portable i would drop it thanks love it totally what she said and i think it's exciting i'd say that it's exciting that you're curious about it because that that means that you're going to get there, you know? And I do think that that's something that's kind of left out of social media a lot. It's like exercise is not about body, but it's like, well, how do we actually get there? And, you know, and often it's like a before and after. Like, I used to exercise for my weight loss. And now I exercise for me. And it's like, well, actually there's a lot of in between in that. And it's not just like A to B. And it's a journey and

you've got to explore it. And I think it's cool that you're curious about it, which means that you're going to explore it and it means you're going to get there eventually but like take it easy you know I think at the end of the day it just comes down to like am I doing it because I want to conform to a certain standard or look a certain way or am I doing it because I genuinely want it and I just think I want to conform to a different standard that's why I want the big arms I want to love it I want people to live with me it's my mission at one point in my life and I'm quite far away from it now and I'll definitely be far away from a minute because I've got to get like married and just like life whatever But at one point, I want to have such suspiciously big arms

that people are like, the fuck, you know what I mean? Love that. Yeah, I told people to do like a double tape, be like, shit, she was ripped. Do you know what I mean? Like, that's my dream. Just because I think it's, you know, they would say like, oh, boys don't like muscley girls. I'm like, he he, like, come on, man. Okay, I have another embarrassing story.

So, I just love that this starts with. This story feels very M. Oh, no. When I worked for the NHS, I was being interviewed by someone from the inspecting body during an annual inspection in brackets, serious stuff. During the meeting, I laughed at something fairly unfunny, they said, because I was trying to kiss ass, and my chewing gum flew out of my mouth and onto the table between us. We both just stared at it for a few seconds in horror.

I then picked it up and put it in the coffee cup in front of me. Two minutes later, having completely forgot, I took it. sit from the coffee cup and then quickly spat out the chewing gum again i still think about this weekly and it was about five years ago that is horrific that's so good i love you rest in peace and oh my god we've talked about this before why is chewing gum falling out your mouth so embarrassing anything falling out your mouth you know since my surgery i dribble all the time like and i notice it and like and i'll just be sitting there and if i don't pay attention because all the nerves in my mouth is still asleep if i don't pay attention dribble will just

fall and luckily the only time that I seem to be like that relaxed is when I'm alone but you know what it's like on the beach you're tired I drink wine at lunchtime I'm reading my book and the amount of times I feel it it's going it's going and I have to like suck it back up again and that's not even chewing gum that's just a bit of dribble which is innocuous you can get away with that particularly you just rub it in but it's so embarrassing and it's so inexplicably embarrassing I don't know why things falling out your mouth it's just it's we've talked about it's when you spit on someone it's just er so rest in peace i'm so sorry but also the coffee like so gross the coffee you want to know something really bad when i was a kid my um i remember going to i learned

such a lesson such a painful lesson at such a vulnerable age um but i went to my granny's house in um in the alma man where where she lived and um like we were upstairs and i distinctly remember like i must have been very young because she died when i was like six but there was a coke can on the radiator and i was like oh coke and i was like oh coke and i was Oh, so bad. I was trying to be all, like, sneaky. So I, like, were behind my mom's back. Like, how gross?

Like, I'm, like, I'm, like, fucking elf on the subway anyway. And I just, I took the Coke have, and I took a sip, and it was full of cigarette parts. And I was, like, ha. So I tried to take, like, a little sip. Like, why am I so greedy and sneaky? Like, my mom was right there, and I just went, and it was just, like, ash, went everywhere.

My mom's like, what are you doing? I thought that's so cute. I never, ever drank. Honestly, I have to open the can and then I have to hold on to the fucking can until the drink is done. So bad. But that's so cute that you just want with a little sip.

So, like, again, so embarrassing. But, oh, I hate, why am I so awkward? It's like the wanting something. Like, it's so embarrassing to be caught, like being so greener, like, real. like hands in the cookie jar shit. You know what I mean? It's almost like a prop. Like my mum could have put it there as a prop to never have me drink Coke. She hates Coke. You know, she's like, it's so bad for you. It's just going to rot your tea. She probably did it on purpose, smoked a whole

packet and then just like stuffed it in. She's like, I know one of my greedy little offspring will go for this. That will show them. But the cut the canvas felt weird because it's obviously not full of liquid. But I was in such a rash. I remember my mom, we were on the landing. And It was a really, really small, you know, like it was, she lived by the sea size. It was a really small little cottage. And the stair, the stairwell bit was, you know, really small. And I really remember being, like, just squish behind my mum. So, like, I didn't have much time to play with.

I didn't have much time, space to play with. So it was literally like a now or never. Like, I was probably only arse highs on my mum. So I just stuck my little arm out, grabbed it when no one, when I thought no one was looking. I didn't have time till I weigh it up, be like, hmm, suspicious. I just, you know, like, up in. Absolutely chaos Oh no, so grim

Oh god Can I just embarrass my mum quickly Before we go She once got out the Cheath station In the 80s sometime And I don't know Just giving the date for reference Because she was commuting

And she got up She walked up the Cheath stares And she said she was half asleep And she had a fringe And she sort of saw a man in front of her Holding a coffee cup Assumed he was homeless Got into her hand

Pulled out a wad of change And just dropped it into his coffee cup and she said she only realised after about five seconds when she heard the splash that he wasn't homeless. He was just a man drinking his cup of coffee on the way to work. Did he say anything? She always says she just scuttled off. Oh, I love cups. I know.

Yeah, so don't drink anything out of a cup that you don't know about. And don't put anything into a cup that you haven't been asked to. Life lessons. with them and Alex. Yeah, there you go. You're all welcome, so welcome. Well, we've overrun. Daisy hasn't been here to stop us.

Quite massively. But there we are. We always do. Oh, well. Yeah, you are really late. Okay, so awkward rounding off time. We will see you guys next week. If you have an embarrassing story

or, and is it just me, that is a bit of tongue twister, please do either send us a message on the Instagram. Should I delete that? Or send us an email at Should I delete that pod at Gmail? dot com. We love to hear them, love to read them out. And please remember to stick strictly to the template that has been outlined in this episode. And we love you very much. And thanks for listening. And we'll see you next Monday. See you next Monday. Bye. Thank you.