Should I Delete That? - Frankie Bridge on living with depression and anxiety

Episode Date: June 26, 2022

A heads up, this episode contains talk of suicide and eating disorders. If you'd rather skip this ep, take care, and we'll catch you on Thursday!This week the girls chat to presenter, author and former member of The Saturdays, Frankie Bridge. Frankie lives with depression and anxiety, and was one of the first celebrities to openly and publicly discuss their mental health, so the girls wanted to chat to her about this in more depth. In the Good, Bad and Awkward, the weather is again the hot topic of discussion, as are fridge magnets…This episode is sponsored by WUKA, use the code SIDT20 this week to get 20% off your first order!Follow us on Instagram @shouldideletethatEmail us at [e-mail] & edited by Daisy GrantMusic by Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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That's S-I-D-T-20 Go by the one, you won't look back Oh my God, why did I post that? Ah, I don't know what to do! Should I delete that? Yeah, you should definitely delete that. Hello guys, welcome back to the Should I Delete That podcast. This is our second attempt at an introduction

because in the first one, I told everyone that I'm sweating and I regretted it, so I was like, let's not do that, and now I've just done it again. So, hi-ya. It was also an incredibly awkward intro, so yeah, This is our redo. Hi, everyone. Welcome back. Thanks for coming back. How you doing now? I'm good. I'm good. It's too sunny, which I know you're going to hate me saying, but it's way too hot and way too sunny still, but I'm powering through. I'm powering through. Oh God, how hard for you. It must be so difficult for you to just fight your way through all that bit of D and joy to just make it back into the pits of fucking hell when winter comes back. It's the first day of summer today or yesterday was.

Is it? A fish? Yes. I hope you buckle up, get ready. Yeah, it's summer solstice, isn't it, yesterday? I do have to say, though, right? And I maintain this. Like, I would prefer people stop telling me to be appreciative of the weather and to stop moaning about the weather

because Britain is not meant to be this hot and London is not set up to be this hot and there's no aircon anywhere and we're just, we're not made for this kind of weather and it's uncomfortable and sticky and I don't get why we're supposed to be uber positive about it. It's horrible.

I'm not doing this with you again. It's the best fucking time of the year and I'm not going to have you ruin it. Now tell me, you're good or you're bad or you're all good. I can't do this with you again? Can you not concede that it is uncomfortable to be hot and sticky?

No, okay, no, I can't do this again. Yes, yes. Okay, it's a small price to pay sometimes having like a sweat at night time. night sweat. I grant you, that's not the best. But I'd rather that to an astronomical heating bill and dry skin and fucking chill blames whenever I get in the shower after having been outside and having to wrap up in a million layers and having dry hair and dry skin. Like, honestly, it's the price I'll pay. I'll take a bit of sweat. Also, sweat's great. Sweets like,

endorphins just as a little liquid. So it's fine. I wish I hadn't asked. I wish I hadn't asked. Exactly. Good, bad and awkward. The good, the bad, and the awkward. Okay, hit me. Hit me with something good or bad or awkward, please. We are so different. My good.

My good. Now look, I don't want to get ahead of myself. However, I have strong suspicions that I might be a subconscious genius. And the word subconscious will become clear, right? so I Dave and I both have AirPods right which are bloody expensive and I think just shit to use like the concept of them is great but for the price they are they are so difficult to use anyway we've both got AirPods but they're in these just plain nondescript white cases and we don't know who know who's is who's right and then I pick up some and they're Dave's and then they're not attached to me and then I have to attach myself and blah blah blah or connect connect whatever the lingo is. da-da-da-da anyway this was just a problem that I didn't have a solution to it was just a problem that was pissing me off and that was it I didn't think about it any further and then I had a dream right I had a dream that I bought a leopard print air pods case and then that was the differentiation

why is that word sounding so weird a subconscious genius ladies and gentlemen and that was that was how we distinguish between day's case and my case I woke up and I was like what the fuck that's such a good idea so I How cute is this? A little leopard print Heckphones case and since we've not had that problem and that was all in my dream

so I've obviously got some genius inside of me it's just very buried in my subconscious Either that or the metaverse is like worse than what we thought and it's like infiltrating us while we sleep and you were advertised that left of print Apple

AirPod case in your sleep and then you woke up and bought it like the little puppet that you are Oh my God I didn't even think about that oh my god they've literally infiltrated my dreams no you're a subconscious genius yeah I was going to say don't piss on my parade I was excited about that

but aren't dreams crazy and cool and so weird because that was obviously in me somewhere but it was not in my conscious but it was obviously in my subconscious and it's so clever I woke up like wow that's so clever anyway I feel like you're not as bold over about this as I was but anyway

it's a good story Al I'm very happy for you thank you you're good. So I had a meeting yesterday, Al. This is, this is actually, this is the best good that we've ever had. And I've been so excited to tell you, I had a meeting yesterday. Oh my God. With a merchandise company. No, you didn't. No, you didn't. No, you didn't. No, you did not. No, you did not. Yes, I did. I had it yesterday at 4.15. And the guy's really nice. And he thinks there's some great potential here.

Oh my God. I feel I feel duped and horrified in equal measure and I don't know where to go with this. So for context, I was having the meeting anyway about merchandise for the hags because we have T-shirts and we're going to expand that,

which is very exciting. Okay. But then it occurred to me. I was looking at his website and I was like, oh my God. So I finished the hags meetings. and I was like do you have a couple of extra minutes and he was like yes and I was like so he also this podcast and I told him and I was like look the demand is high people are

going to go crazy for this stuff honestly crazy and anyway he was he was totally on board he thought they were a great idea he took the words from my mouth he said you know what everybody's got I said what he said a fridge I was like I like you I knew I liked you he gets it from a business standpoint he thinks we could be millionaire Sal he really does it doesn't but I've had the meeting I've made the contact I've got his email address I've got another meeting I'm having a coffee with a bit of a couple of weeks I think you should come oh my god or you don't have to come and you just leave me to it I'll have the meeting I'll do all the legwork on this and I'll and I'll get where we get and then I'll see what

you think what you think okay I don't think you're going to regret this I feel like I'm on drag him stand and I'm pitching it to Deborah meading this is like very weirdly leading right into my bad, which is that about half of my DMs now are about fridge magnets. Fucking eight! I told you the demand was high. People want them, don't they? People want the fridge magnets, don't they? I think they're more sort of goading me a little bit.

But I got locked out of the house, right? Very early in the morning for about half an hour because Dave's, well, because I'm an idiot. And I put on my stories, I told the story and afterwards I put, how can I live, laugh, love, in these conditions, right? And I must have had about fucking 500 DMs being like fridge magnet, fridge magnet. And I was like, this, unfortunately, is not going anywhere, despite my best wishes. Yes, it is, Al. No, no, no.

What I mean is the fridge magnet idea is not going anywhere. It is going to follow me around now, like a bad smell for a long time I can feel it. It's going to be your legacy, Al. It's not going to be a bad smell. It's going to be, it's going to be the thing. that sets your kids up for a great life. It's going to be the thing that your kids inherit one day and they're going to be so proud.

They're going to be so proud. You might as well have invented the fridge magnet. That's how good thieves are going to be. And actually, I'm going to send you this guy's website. He's really good. And he'll help us design them and everything so they don't even have to be that shit. It's actually going to be really good.

I'm really excited. And we could, like, you know what, Al, everybody makes merch for their podcast. And right, well, people want to take a tote bag. no people have got 50,000 tote bags what are they want a t-shirt no no no what are they want something new they want something original they want something they want something they can see every day but sticks on their fridge do they what i i give up i give in do you at this this point i won't make you come to the meetings i'll do it i'm doing this

this is the bandwagon if you would like to jump on it at any point it's stopping you can just leap. If you don't, that's fine. We will kidnap you eventually, okay? So it's basically, do you want to come willingly or do you want to be sort of like bound and tied and grabbed and put in the boot? Because it's up to you. And you don't have to decide now. If in like, you know, when they go to development and the orders are coming in and you still aren't on board, then we'll do the bounding and the tying and putting you in the boot. So you've got some time. Do you know what? If this happens and people actually buy them, I will eat my words. I'll tell you how you can eat those words

I'll put your words on a fridge magnet and you can eat those now that would be nice edible bridge magnets so they're gone quickly no I think you die people have to go to hospital I remember somebody I remember somebody that I knew ate two magnets and then they had to go to hospital

because the magnets go to find each other when you're something that's actually really bad that's really bad yeah yeah it's not good also like don't eat like a magnet and a coin or like a magnet and a safety pin like don't eat a magnet and then something else magnetic because you'll have the same problem. Oh, okay. Thank you for that. I'll, I'm going to, I'm going to store that in my

memory of really important things to know. In your genius subculture. Yeah, don't eat a magnet and a safety pin. Cool. Thanks, Anne. Oh, my God. We need that, we need that as a quote. Jesus. Okay, so your, your good is my bad. Excellent. We're doing really well. I hate summer. You love summer. You, you love inspirational quotes. I hate them. magnets. I don't think the internet's even seen my fridge. I know I exaggerated that time when I said there were 40,000 magnets on it because Daisy came over and she was like, there are. There are, like, I'm not very good at like big numbers. Like, I'm not very good at like anywhere from like 400 to 4 million. I'm like, oh, I don't know. But I'm going to say there's in the region of 500 to

1,000 fridge magnets on my fridge. I think that's more realistic. And if I get really good later, I'll count them, but I probably won't. Yeah, I'd say there's about that many. Yeah, because I've got, basically, I bought these things on Amazon, not that I'm directing you in the area, in the direction of other fridge magnets, because, of course, we are going to have monopoly on the market. So I don't want to be, like, sending you to our competitors,

but for now, the fridge magnets. They are, Al. This is a car phone business. This fridge magnet stuff, we can't be getting free advertising to the ones that already exist. So I have got these ones that got them on Amazon, and they're basically like individual words like they've got every single word that you can think of except basically for context I went I went to a shop I went to I went to an art gallery with Alex because he's really into culture and I'm not but sometimes in marriage you have to make compromises

so we went to an art gallery and I went to the gift shop because that was you know me and I bought this I could see these fridge magnets and I'm like wow they're amazing and it's just loads it was like sheets of different words and you break them apart and then you've just got like the and like every word like just any word like microphone or like water or bottle or bum or like they have bad words they got good words they just got any old word right so I bought this pack but I didn't realize that I bought like the bumblebee edition so I stuck them all to the fridge and I was like this is weird because it had words like pollinate and honey and like swarm and like queen I was like this is very strange um and then really specific honey words I was like hmm okay anyway so then I went on Amazon and I bought like a butt ton more So I got like normal words, I got rude words, I got all the words, basically.

And now whenever people come to my house, they make a sentence on my fridge with the words that are available. And it's very easy to tell who's really warm by the friend that it is. It is. That is quite fun. You put, it is important to communicate. Did I? Did I? Yes.

And Sarah put, I eat wasps and pon. Oh my God, that's so sad. I was supposed to write something like funny and like, you know, like cards of humanity style. And I was like, oh, it's important to communicate. We can put that on one of our magazines if you want. I think, I think there should be two, like two sections, right, for the fridge magnets. One should be inspiration and one should be inspiration, right? Yes, Al.

yes I love that you're bringing ideas to the table hit me come on sell it to us oh god oh god no tell us about the others fueling this fire shouldn't I shouldn't have interrupted it carry on so yours will be you know don't don't

you know what's that stupid one that you always say don't cry because it's over smile because it happens because you're alive kind of style and mine will be like oh actually someone replied to me someone replied to that and said that someone got a tattoo that was supposed to be live laugh love love but somehow it went wrong and it was love laugh live and i was like i actually really

like that that's quite funny no i don't think that's because it's just like it's a bit it's a it's a it's a bit fucked up no or like no no regrets you know with an a no regrets yeah i mean this is good i'm you know what right now i'm just happy if you're at the table can we get some actual feedback from the people that are listening to this like is this actually of interest or can we knit this in the bud yes can we get some can we get some actual like okay i know i know i know i know i've got it when this episode comes out which is going to be monday when you hear this our post for this episode will already be up okay if you like this idea and you think it's got legs you do leave a thumbs up on our post and if you don't and you think this needs to be nipped in the bud

a thumbs down please on the post and then we'll know I hope you're prepared to see a lot of happy thumbs on Monday delighted enthusiastic excited thumbs I'm I'm entirely confident entirely confident okay well someone's got to be so that's good entirely confident okay okay excellent i'll i'll keep you posted if you want to come to any of these meetings you just let me know what's your bad oh my bad is quite bad i my bad's really not great um my bad is i've had another letter oh yeah from the please from the please um i've got i've been caught speeding shit how bad not too bad it's 58 and a 50 which isn't great but it's and it's not

legal, but it's also not like super not legal. So there's this criteria, right? So like if you're going a certain speed, if you're going like not quite quick, but not like super quick, then you can do a speed awareness course, but only if you haven't done one in the last three years. I don't know if I've done one in the last three years. I know I've done one before because it was literally the worst day of my life because the guy that did it was so bizarre. um and he kept picking on me so i've got to do another basically but if i'm not allowed to do another then i get the points on my license and that's not great because my insurance is going to go up so fingers fingers fingers that my last one was over three years ago and i have to basically

confess to the police because they know they know what the car was but they don't know if it was me or alex and the temptation to throw him under the pass was massive because he like absolutely but unfortunately well yeah he opened the post obviously because i wasn't going to so um yeah he was like well it was the 7th of May and that was the day we drove home from our honeymoon and you were driving the car so I was like oh well they've got me uh anyway so yeah I've got to do that which is fine yeah a bit of a bit of a bit of a bummer but you know what I've only myself to blame I've only myself to blame yeah you're kind of do you know if you're going to live the boy racer life you've got to be prepared to deal with the consequences do you know what I mean

you're going to live past that young or I don't know like like you know life of a criminal it's going to come back to you at some point if you're going to live like this live on the edge you just can't expect to get away with it forever eventually the roosters come home to nest what's the expression hens come home to

anyway yeah so I don't know but yeah my chickens will come home anyway my chickens have come home you've reaped what you sowed I don't know you're facing the consequences of your own actions essentially exactly 100% and I'm absolutely fine with that to be honest like also i love that you're making legality and a spectrum like it was

illegal but it wasn't like that illegal oh well no because some people like no i actually we're speeding it's a slippery slope right because like some people because obviously the speed the speed limit on the motorway it's like 70 which some people do like have you ever been driving down the motorway at night time and then like a BMW comes past you on the outside lane and you're like that's literally going to be like 140 miles an hour yeah like yeah so those like if you get done I think it's like over a hundred and something. You can just lose your licence straight away like that. So 58's looking pretty, yeah, actually to be fair.

But 58's looking pretty tame. Also, in my defence, and I do have a defence, but I'm not going to take it to the police because it's not a strong defence. But it's a dual carriageway. So I thought it was 70, but they're building, they're building like a new development, like a housing development. So I think they've changed the speed limit to be 50 because it's becoming residential. So I, because it's on the way to my mum's house.

So I've grown up then. It's always been 70. but I think the laws have changed but that's okay you know what I should have checked that's my fault

isn't the the criteria for actually speeding isn't it the speed limit plus 10% plus one plus two is it plus two yeah so if you think about it like that I was only one mile an hour

above the speed limit yeah which can do bad which is really not that bad yeah honestly I'm a white collar prisoner at this point you really are

no blue collar no white collar white collar yeah I'm up there with the tax evaders It's honestly for like the sort of like the least hard core in the way of crime. You know, they're going to send me to prison and all the murderers are going to be like cracking their knuckles looking at me being like, what are you in for? And I'll be like, I went one mile an hour faster than I should have done past a housing development. Well, my awkward is vehicle related to.

Which is that we are in sync today. We really are actually. Which is that we went away this weekend to a little like place by the sea. which was my, like, it was a surprise weekend away for Dave to say thank you for keeping our lives together throughout all this like book stuff and just everything, like a very busy period. So I was like, do you know what? I need to drive. I need to drive. Like my sisters live like 10 minutes away. I currently don't really have a way to get to them. So they've been just being like coming to pick me up. And I was like, I need to drive. I'm going

to do the drive down there. You do have a license. I just want to stress. You haven't just decided one day out of nowhere. I do have a license. Well, I passed my driving chest, like when I was, well, I started driving when I was 17. And I was, oh my God, you should have seen me back in the day. I was a bit like you. I was a total boy racer. Like, I had no fear, no qualms. And I was, I think I was a good driver.

Like, as far as I'm aware, I was a good driver. No one ever told me otherwise. But I am just absolutely horrendous now. Like, absolutely horrendous. I don't know. I don't, I mean, a lot of it is wrapped up in anxiety. But I do think that I'm actually worse. as well and I don't really know what's happened so anyway I did the I did the drive down it was

supposed to take I think it was supposed to take like an hour and 10 um and we were we were looking at more like two hours by the time we actually got there and I've never seen Dave so pale and so upset and he was like you know driving when driving instructors have dual pedals so they can like pump the brake when you don't in case you don't what Dave was doing that just without the pedals was like slamming his foot on the bottom of the car. I was like, stop it. There is no break there. I am the one breaking. And he was just like, I'm really scared. I'm really scared. Like, please, will you just slow down? You're too close to? Oh, I don't know. It was chaos. But then for some reason, like we had to drive through these country roads. And I just don't understand. I honestly

do not understand how people drive through country roads and drive at a normal speed without knowing what's coming around the corner. I don't get it. I don't understand. it makes no sense to me. So he was like shouting at me saying you're treating every corner like a junction because you're just coming, you're slowing down and coming to a stop and then like, like trying to peer around the corner and then go around. He was like, this is way more dangerous than actually going at a normal speed. And I was like, but how am I supposed to go around the corner when I don't know what's

there? Something could be coming at me and people fly around country roads. You just don't know. I know what you mean. Well, yeah. But you do have two sides to the road now. Yeah, but it feels like only very just. I would like a motorway style.

All the time. All the time. Yeah, exactly. I think they're safer. I think motorways are safer. They've got to be. I think you're more likely, I think you're less likely to die

if you have a crash on the motorway because even though you'll be going faster, the police and the ambulances will get to you quicker because they'll find you, because people will have seen the accident, basically. I feel like I can relax when I'm on the motorway because I'm now like everything, there are rules in place.

Everyone knows their place. Everyone knows the rules. Like, it's very set out and very laid out. There are rules on other. the roads as well. It doesn't feel like it. It feels like an absolute free-for-all and I don't like it. I know what you mean when you go to a place that's like I know where my where my mum lives which is like in the countryside I because I know the roads really well so I probably drive like the kind of person that you hate because I know the corners I know the blind spots I know

whatever so but if you're new to the area like when I go to where Alex of mum and I'm like oh my God because it's like well yeah but yeah because if you don't know it particularly and it's worse in the summer this is the only time I will concede that the the summer makes things harder because hedgeros are thicker because they're obviously like big and bushy so it's almost easier at night because you can see headlights coming around the corner before you but in daylight with the bushes being really big yeah i grant you i go a lot slower in the summer long countries i don't know yeah so don't worry i just hate driving and just don't get it i don't get it well i'm really proud of you for facing it head on i think it's very cool thanks

it's terrifying but thanks what's your awkward I have an awkward. I haven't awkward. This is, this actually, if I hadn't been contacted by the police, this would be my bad. But as it is, it's been demoted because it's both awkward and bad. So last Friday, I went on Good Morning Britain to talk about online safety and stuff, like a big cheese, and it was great. And I was very proud of myself.

And everything was great. And thank you. And I look quite nice and everything. Yeah, you look so much. But unfortunately, for me, on Friday morning, when I woke up, I had the squits. oh man I was like a full of fucking times and it was like 36 degrees

and I think it was I actually think it was ironically because I'd spent all night sweating so I was really dehydrated so so I woke up and it was also you have to get up

and I didn't have this presented to it no wonder Pierce Morgan was so fucking grouchy at the time you've to get up at like five in the morning yeah crazy anyway so I got up really early

it was like squitty-skitty bang but I wasn't very got my got my shit together literally got in the cab and I was like okay doing fine got there they did my hair and my makeup and I was like okay I think I'm okay I'm not gonna eat anything but I think I'm alright and then um just as the producers came and they were like hi we're it's gonna mic you up and I literally looked at Jenny my manager and I was like don't oh my

I was like I have to run and they were like I was like I just go to the loo and they were like we'll put the microphone on you before you go and I was like I really wouldn't do that please don't do that please don't do that please don't do that Um, they were like, are you sure? And I was like, yeah, I'll just be an minute. So then I had to run, thank God they did it. Because honestly, you know, you know, you've got an upset tummy and it just comes out of nowhere. Yeah. Like, you're fine, you're fine. And then you get that like, gudonk where it just like drops. And it's like, okay, bombs away, ladies and gentlemen, yeah, buckle up, let's go. You come out in this immediate sweat. Yeah, exactly. Like a cold

sheen. Yeah. And so it could have been so much worse. I could have shot myself on TV, which wasn't actually an unlikely thought. Because when it comes, it comes. Do you know what I mean? Imagine. Imagine. And it could have happened. Like if that producer had arrived like one minute earlier, put that microphone on,

it would have happened then. But, and, and because I honestly, that happened to somebody. I can't remember it happened to it. It did. It happened to a, where they had their mic on.

I think it was like a congressman or something. But he left his mic on while he went to the toilet and the sounds were something else. Honestly, because it wasn't like, you know, it wasn't a standard poo.

Like it wasn't a good situation for me. so thank god i didn't have my microphone thank god you didn't get like get taken short while you were actually on tv like sitting there talking imagine if it had just come on you're live on tv what would you have done i'd have cried and literally shout myself it like it would have been so bad it would have been so bad but i had a long dress on but that wouldn't have made it any better because everyone would have heard it and smelled it oh no that would be the awkward to end all awkwards that would end me. That would end me. And I think you'd have to understand that I would take my Fridgemaier, Fridge Magna Empire and this podcast and I would run from it all. Yes, because

I would abandon it. Yeah, you would be forever be the girl that shot on TV. Yeah, so that wasn't great. But it wasn't, it wasn't as awkward as it could have been, but it was the potential. It was the, it was just, it wasn't great. It wasn't great. It was such a glamorous moment of my life and I was wearing my little pretty dress and then just like, yeah, it was pretty low point. Yeah, like five minutes before I went on like TV in front of the nation. I just had this sort of like bleak little moment by myself in an ITV cubicle. Gorgeous. So that's those.

There's a bit of instaversial reality for the gang. Yeah, gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous girls. Yeah, gorgeous, gorgeous girls shitting themselves just before they go on TV. I know, pretty dresses. Yeah, fab. Well, we've got a good interview today. We do, we do. So we've got Frankie Bridge coming on who was a member of the girl brand on the Saturdays.

And now she does a lot of stuff on TV. She's one of the loose women panelists, but what we actually wanted to talk to her about was mental health. And she was really one of the first ever celebrities to like talk openly about mental health. And we talk about this in the episode, but like talk about it in a way that wasn't an eating disorder or a drug addiction. Like it was anxiety and depression, something which did and still does have a lot of stigma around it. And I remember just being like so shocked when I saw her talking about it, but as someone who has struggled, it meant a lot to me for her to talk about that. And I've just remembered it ever since. And so I was really excited to talk to her

and hear her story in her own words. And she's amazing, right? She's amazing. I also was a huge Saturday's fan girl back in the day. So I have my own little moment of excitement before this episode but actually we've made a big promise to ourselves not to talk about the episode too much before we just play the episode so I think today we're just going to tell you this is a good interview we love Frankie Bridge and now can I just say really quickly though is that she like I wanted everything she was wearing she looked so cool she was wearing this pink linen I bought it I bought it oh my god I did you know what it's a little bit too pink for me but I would like it in another color in a neutral I think but it was gorgeous I've got it in pale blue I also have it

in white oh okay I'm going to get it in white it was like this gorgeous bright pink oversized shirt, linen shirt, over a little tank top and these like cool, um, like dad jeans. And then she was, oh my God, she was just like she had the coolest nails. They were like clear with colourful tips. I'm just going to tell you this. Fuck it. Fine. Okay, you know it's my birthday in a couple of weeks. Um, so I made my birthday list and it was literally so inspired by everything she was wearing. Oh my God. Me too. Oh, my jewellery on the whole jewellery that she was wearing. Oh my God. And I said to Alex, I was like, so I want to enter this like new era. So I've got my silly little apple watch and she had a metal strap that apple watch. So I've put one on my

birthday list and I've put all this big chunky gold jewelry on it and I was like I just said to Alex I think I just want to enter a new era and I didn't tell him it was because it was the Frankie Bridge effect but here we are. Oh my God because we haven't actually talked about that but I was literally the same because I made me want an Apple watch and I've never wanted one before but she was wearing this like brown leather strap that crossed over. Yeah see I've put a metal yeah I've put a metal one on I found I went on I was like God that looks so cool. And she also, she was also wearing this ring that's a name ring. No, sorry, what do you call it?

A word ring. So it had love written on it. And it's a bit like my Betty ring, but it was Diamante. So like gold and a little bit chunkier. And I'm desperate for it. I've actually looked online to find it, but it's really expensive. So I'm not sure. But maybe I should make a birthday list, actually,

and get everyone to, like, contribute. Because, yeah, she was just, oh my God. Her nails. She made me want nail art. So she had. like, I hope she's not listening, this is so embarrassing. But she had like clear nails, but not totally clear. It's like the, like, pinkie clear of the acrylic colour, stunning.

And then like colourful tips. Oh, God, I'm really embarrassed. I can't tell you this. Guess what I've asked for at my next manicure. What? Colorful tips. Well, yeah, Sarah had it at the wedding in my defence and it was always my plan to have it to my next manicure.

But me and Georgie have got a plan to get it booked in. Do it. And also she was wearing, oh my God, this is crazy. She was wearing. Chanel leather sandals and they were so cool. Oh my God, I love them and I couldn't... Yeah, so I couldn't justify it to myself so I've put... Oh God, I'm so embarrassed by myself.

I've put a pair of, because no one would buy those for me, so I've put a pair of Birkenstocks on my birthday list instead. Love that. But really similar, some black ones. Black platform ones. It's just so sad. Oh, but you send me the link because they sound fun. I like those.

Yeah, they're really nice. Okay, I'm just going to have a look at the Chanel Birkenstocks as well. this is, but I don't, I think, I think, what were they, Chanel? I think they could be out of our budget. I also, it's not even my budget, I have to, oh, yeah, I don't think they're going to be a gift from a family member, but, but the burkeys are pretty cool. I'll send you the link. Nice, nice, nice. Yeah, she was just, she was, she was, she was put together in a way that I will forever aspire to be. I never will be. I agree. She looks, oh, fuck, yeah.

It's just not my style. And actually, I've made peace with that, because I used to look at those girls in school who were put together like that and be like, I just want to be like that. But now, I know, that's not me and that's not for me. But God, I wish I was put together like that. No, you see, I'm such a big dreamer that I think that I want that to be me. So I'm just going to go and buy everything that she had except slightly cheaper versions. And I'm going to make that me. And it almost inspired me to start washing my hair more. Oh my God, her hair as well. And her makeup was flawless. I know. I know. I felt. like I just wanted to go home and give myself a makeover.

Yeah, and I looked silly. We were going to the boss light year premiere later in the evening, weren't we? So I was trying to wear my like outfit at the top, and I think I just looked a bit sad. I can't remember what I was wearing, but I know I didn't like it. Anyway. They were wearing matching outfits, and then Dave made you get changed because he said, you look silly,

which is funny, because then I carried on wearing the outfit that he said you look silly. Okay, so there we go. Well, I hope we've enjoyed this weirdness, Frankie. so sorry um i really really really really she hasn't listened to this and if she hears she's gonna be like take it down you fucking weirdos i should never have said yes to this i knew you guys were strange you were dressed terribly um i just want to say on what it's worth as well um frankie's instagram she puts on her stories all the time the alphas that she is wearing she does doesn't she like and links them and does her find and she's got her own clothing line and stuff she's actually

it's not that hard it's not that hard to adopt the frankie bridge effect if you try she's just great and that's what i'm going to do yeah she is so follow her on instagram and buy everything that she owns and ben you'll be cool just like frankly and not like us anyway guys i hope you enjoy the interview enjoy and let us know what you think and remember thumbs up or thumbs down on the post out today come through for me guys so but don't shit all my dreams out to stop it i'm gonna see you're not being kind okay sure thanks guys all right enjoy the interview lots of love bye bye bye Hi Frankie. Hi.

As if we've just seen you. I know. I've been trash in your dressing room for like half an hour. Yes, we're in your dressing room at Luce Women, which is, oh my god, it's so cool actually. I've never been inside dressing room before, I don't think. Have you not? I didn't realize, it's like a little hotel room, isn't it? It is, it is.

They've made them fancier because obviously this has been here forever. Yeah? Yeah. Really nice. I'm glad to approve. I do. I do. I do.

I'm dropping hits to me. It's very nice in here. I'm getting quite comfortable in this dress. Can I live it? So yeah, we're really excited to have you on today. Thank you for coming to, well, thank you for talking to us, not coming to us. Fletting us in. What, Frankie? Can we come in?

So you were in the girl band the Saturdays, which was one of the UK's biggest girl groups ever from 2007 to 2014. Don't ask me. According to my research, that's correct. correct and you experienced like huge success and achievements with the band you had like countless top 10 singles and a number one single and you toured and you won awards and from the outside it looked like so glamorous like super glamorous and you were just like living the dream with this like amazing amazing life but you were secretly battling with your mental health are you able to talk to us about that and like talk us through like what was going on at that time

and how it was trying to, like, balance that, these, like, incredible highs or what should have been amazing highs with these really difficult lows. Yeah. I think I just became, the only way I can describe it is I became two versions of myself. So I had Frankie from the Saturdays,

and then I had the other Frankie, and it took me quite a few years to kind of figure that out, and I can still remember the moment where I felt it happened, and we were actually on tour and we were doing a meet and greet before we went on stage and I had this moment before I stepped into a room full of people

where I kind of took a breath and kind of did that like shake everything off and put a big smile on my face and then like stepped into the room and I think that just I felt I had to play up to being the happy

Frankfurt on the Saturdays you know really kind, friendly really excited to be here and that's kind of the persona that I put on in those moments and but actually inside I was I was painfully unhappy I was suffering from anxiety depression I had an eating disorder at the time and there was so much going on you know I could have conversations with people and perform on

stage while thinking so many other things at the same time you know things like oh they probably think I'm a really bad person they probably think I don't look very nice so I probably shouldn't be here and I think there was so much guilt that came with that because I was like you said I was technically living the dream and I was living my dream I achieved everything I wanted to achieve but then there I was so unhappy and there was so much guilt that came with that I bet I bet because had your mental health been suffering long before you achieved like musical success or had it kind of been there in the background but was like compounded by this like fame suddenly you experienced it

I don't know. I always say I came out of the womb anxious. I was just one of those kids, you know. I was just like an overthinker, you know. I was always thinking the worst. Like my mum travelled a lot with work and I would always be terrified that, you know, she wasn't going to come back. And, you know, there were so many things. I used to go to bed at night and not be able to breathe properly. And that was kind of the first, like, as a kid where my anxiety started to become a physical thing rather than just a mental thing. but back then it was kind of like I just got sent for blood tests because I had stomach aches all the time

and got given an inhaler because I must have asthma and you know no one tried to deal with what you know it might be mentally whereas I think nowadays it would maybe be approached quite differently and so I just think you know it was years of having

anxiety and not really knowing what it was and then just having a career from the age of 12 which was amazing I was in Escove juniors before I was in the Saturdays And I think, although all that stuff was great and I would never change it, my life was always out of my control. You know, I had people telling me what I was doing from day to day, what I was going to wear, you know, kind of like what I liked because I was having to say, by the single, it's amazing, you know, all this stuff. And I think so things like not eating properly was a way of control in that moment. And I do think the anxiety and depression

came from the pressure that I put on myself to be what I thought everyone expected me to be. So I think was it the cause of my depression and anxiety? No, but did it make it worse, yes. Because there's a lot of people that you have to keep happy when you're actually like shamelessly and probably embarrassing me, but I was going to tell you anyway.

I was definitely one of those people that I came to see the Saturdays. Did you? Yeah, in 2000, I looked for the photo yesterday, I think it was 2008. Really? Yeah, and I looked fucking terrible. So did I probably. Because you guys like your kind of era of all the different kind of dresses. Oh God, yeah, so I did look awful too.

We kind of replicated that. Oh, that's so cute. No way. Oh my, you guys have to find you. Yes. For me, five, five, the first eight other girls in it. Because it was my birthday. It's my idea to go.

Oh, I love that. They're all like, being made to wear these stupid things. What do you mean? I call that every day on space. I think it's probably really cool on you, and then for us, they're being dropped off by our mom. It was like, okay. That's so cute.

But, yeah, it's so weird. The kind of, like, I guess, the claim that fans have on band members. Like, and I wanted this, like, because this is kind of a tangent of a question because I do want to ask about it about mental health, I wonder, like, how you feel about, like, the band mix and stuff, because you see it with, like, one direction.

And I don't know if it was as bad with bands back then before, like, social media. But, like, everyone's got a team. Everyone's got, like, their, like, their member that they love. And I wonder, like, is that, like, a pressure for you when you're in the band to be liked? Because, obviously, you love your friends. But you kind of know, to the fans. I don't know. That must just be a really weird thing.

Um, I think so. But I think you just kind of learn your role in a band. but I think in like a pop group it's harder to find those roles and it can sometimes take a while so like you know in a band that plays instruments you know you've got the front man

you've got the bassist the guitarist the drummer that sits at the back you know that kind of so you kind of have already been given your positions in a band whereas in a pop group you have to figure those out and I learnt very early on that no one really cared

what I sang like everyone was more bothered about what my hair looked like what I was wearing, who I was going out with and those kind of things and at first I was a little bit upset by that because I loved singing but actually in the end it just I kind of just got on with it and I suppose that's what happened with all of us you do end up finding like your fans and you do fall into different categories it just naturally happens like you know you'd be given a rack of clothes and at the beginning we'd all kind of fight to get the best ones because no one had their style then as the years went on you all found that your

so I suppose you just naturally lend yourself to different people that makes sense they're interesting you not being about like I know I know it's it was at the time I think I was I was a bit gutty because I'd gone from being quite like a lead singer in S-Cub juniors and then not so much in the Saturdays but that was fine like you know it doesn't bother me but I think at first it was just that like okay and I think that then put more pressure on to me from myself of like keeping an eye on what I looked like and you know weight and things like that because I felt like that's who that kind of made up who I was and without that I didn't

really have a role there anymore so I think have you I'm sorry to interrupt you have you have you spoken much about your eating disorder or is it no not massively I've I've mentioned it um because it was more diagnosed when I had my breakdown and I went into hospital it kind that's when it kind of got diagnosed then but even still now I think I know you've suffered in the past as well but like I it's still something it's still like thinking about food and weight is something that is always on my mind and I think it's just something that's always just almost been a part of my life and it's only now as I've got older that I've realized that that's not right and I think

that comes with a lot of like the change that we have seen in body body positivity and people talking about, you know, no one spoke about weight and how people looked and how they got that way before. And now it's become more of a conversation. Yeah, I do think that's like one of the worst things about, like you see obviously that society puts women against each other so much, but the idea of having to stand up on a stage and literally be like consistently compared to, even though they're your friends and they're your colleagues and whatever, but it's just the way that we operate. You see it like, you know, we saw it real time with little, like so much um but and i maybe it's exacerbated with social media and maybe it wasn't so bad

but then maybe i'm just saying that because you know because i i don't know because i wasn't there but i imagine that must just be a horrible pressure for you to just have to not compete because they're your friends but society is putting you against the people that you work with i think it's just it's always the same with women it's like being on loose women you know we're always having a row or someone's always falling out or someone you know someone said something and like you don't get that on League of their own or like any of these other shows where it's purely men and it is really frustrating and with the Saturdays it was annoying I think we kind of got away with it quite lightly to be honest but we didn't argue don't get me wrong we weren't always

best friends all the time because we were like sisters you know what annoys your sister or your sibling and you know when they're in a bad mood and you know when they've pissed you off and stay away and that's how we were and it is it is it's just different sounds like you're for different things like you know between boy bands and girl bands you're all pitted against each other as well and it's just it's just boring it's so boring but to me it's like it sounds like it's so not inevitable but it was it seemed like the perfect storm for you to have like problems with eating you know you were kind of susceptible in that way any way to like worrying and overthinking yeah

and you're in this band with all this pressure on you and everyone's so interested in how you look like that makes sense and I have to say not to make it walk at me but the you went to the nightingale didn't you yes which is where I went as well yeah and I was love it there bad bad memories of that place I think it's probably different for you yeah yeah the I can just like ward I can see it like so intensely but for me I saw I was very thin but I wasn't dangerously thin at that point um I would see the eating disorder bored and the girls sat at dinner and things like that at the table and just thinking how awful that was so it's funny even though i was similar but not too far gone and just thinking i was so

different from those other girls yeah um yeah i see i have different memories of nightingale because for me it was just the only way that i was ever going to get given the breathing space that i needed to recover i was going to say did it feel like a relief like now this problem is in someone else's hands kind of thing like I'm being looked after I literally I didn't want to have the responsibility of keeping myself alive anymore I just got to the point where I didn't want to be here anymore um I found no joy in anything like I couldn't get through a day without crying and I would say I don't want to be here anymore I don't want to be alive and those those things I wasn't eating I was just literally surviving on adrenaline and you know just getting through

day to day and then still working and switching it on when I needed to So for me, when the decision was made that the only way for me to recover from everything was to go into hospital, that was just a relief. I went in there so willingly. And actually the first few days, I don't really remember it, where they were figuring out medications and things like that. And like my sister said, she came to see me,

I don't remember that at all. But for me, I was just like, thank God, I don't have to keep myself alive anymore, which sounds so ridiculous. Because even breathing just became an effort by that point. So it just was really nice to know that that was, I was no longer my own responsibility, which now I look back on and it seems mad.

Yeah, no, it makes total sense though. And like, I'm not, yeah, it must have been hard for everyone around you to hear that you just didn't want to, like, go on anymore. That must have been horrible, so I imagine. Who were you saying that too? I used to say it to Wayne a lot, which must have been really hard for him.

We'd only been together really a year when I ended up going into hospital. And he was still playing football, so, you know, he was busy. He lost a lot of weight around that time just through the stress of me. And he could have easily have walked then. You know, we hadn't been together long enough for him and to necessarily have to stick it out. And I said all sorts of things around that time.

And like I said, there's a lot that I don't remember. So for him, he had to do a lot of learning in a really short space of time. But it was actually being with Wayne and being happy in a relationship and knowing that I was happy only made it more clear to me that I was fundamentally unwell and unhappy. That doesn't make sense, but... No, it does make sense

because you're in a great environment and still you can't find the joy. Like, that's the definition of depression, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. God, it's amazing that you've come through so much together as a couple. Like, because of like 11 years ago. Yeah, yeah.

I know, poor way. I've said... I've added a few grey hairs. they've come anyway you can't prove that they were your yeah I like that because Dave always says to me like oh I had much more hair

like before we got together and I'm like actually you're aging mate that's what happens you recede yeah you fuck off you can't prove it well yeah I actually want to ask

like how your mental health is now because I my research, I can say my research, trying to make me sound professional in my Google stocking. It's not a stalker. I sound like a stalker. You said that you were, your depression was treatment resistant, right? Yeah.

Which means that basically something can work initially, medication can work initially, but it wears off. Is that right? Yeah. So do you still, is that just not on your radar anymore to take antidepressants? No, so I still take them. And actually the ones that I'm on now, I've been on for. quite a few years and they seem to have like the least side effects and have worked the most. But I kind of always explain it like there's like a level of happiness that like a normal

person would feel and then there's a level of happiness that I can reach and I just will never get to that height that other people do. So I can be really ridiculously happy and really joyful and I'm actually naturally quite a positive person. It's strange but I will never be you know my um psychiatrist has always said that like i was kind of his biggest like conundrum because i'm like one of his only patients that he can't fix necessarily because i just thought that how i felt was how everyone felt that was on antidepressants and being treated for depression and anxiety and actually that's not true apparently um so we have kind of been playing around with other medications and stuff so i still do take it um but it's kind of now i'm

would love to explore like other treatments now there's like this magnetic treatment thing that they do at the nighting gal and i mean they're looking into things like microdosing ketamine and things like that which is like not fully come through yet mushrooms right yeah yeah people i know are microdosing mushrooms yeah i think it's a risky business though because some of it goes wrong and i don't mean like goes wrong like they're going to die i just mean like sometimes i'll be in a social situation and someone will come in and I'm like, are you okay? Like, yeah, oh my God.

Hi, as a couple of times, people that I know, I'm like, I think you might have got your dosage, like, some of a job. Yeah, I don't think I'm there yet. I mean, I've got two kids and stuff and a jotter with, like, hold down. But I just like,

imagine this women and you're just like, oh, guys, but I just think there must be other, there has to be more solutions, but I don't know what they are, yeah. Is it for you, like, the reason that maybe you don't want to stick their antidepressants just because they're not bringing you where you'd like to be or just are you struggling with like this i don't know of it like do you stuff all the side effects like does it impact your life or is it no it does it still

impacts my life i still have a lot of days where i don't want to get out of bed or days where i can't really face doing anything or where i you know like i still have those horrible thoughts of every so often of like everyone would be better off without me although that i don't go as deep as i used to um Like, my doctor would always say, like, medication is like a life jacket. It, like, helps you to bob along, but you're never going to sink. So for me, it's just a case of keeping me out of hospital. That's the... So even when I was pregnant, I stayed on my antidepressants.

That was a decision made by all of my doctors and me. And I think the fact that I still feel how I do even on antidepressants is a sign that I need to stay on them. Yeah. And do you feel like you said, you know, that you will never reach that level of happiness at someone that other people do and will. Have you made peace with that? Is that like

okay with you and that's like you've just accepted that and like that's how it's supposed to be or does that make you angry sometimes? I've mostly accepted it because I'm me like I don't know how anyone else feels like I can feel you know I've had babies and got married and I feel

like really happy and things like that so it's not that I don't feel happy I don't want anyone to ever think that I'm like, no, I'm never happy. But I think, yes, mostly I'm fine with it. But I do have days, like, one of my best friends, she suffers with depression and anxiety as well. And we have conversations sometimes,

and we're like, oh, imagine just being one of those people that, you know, just has like a normal brain, and they just go through life, and they just think normally. And, you know, like, I do have those frustrations because I do work out, I do go for walks. I do try to eat healthily. I do therapy. I take my medication.

I'm like, I do. do everything I'm told that I should do and yet I still have those moments but then so does someone without depression and anxiety we all have bad days and stuff so just depends what day you get me on yeah no that makes sense that makes sense and yeah I think it's clear that's like it's not like you're never happy it's just that you will always have that thing that's there yeah I guess like people call it like the black cloud don't they or the black dog you know because I think what I'm getting at is like for me making peace with that and knowing that that's there and that's always going to be there at least like accepting it brings me peace rather than being like because I have

those moments too when I'm like it's not fair like I just want to live like I just want to be like everyone else but I know that's not true as well because everyone has their own thing right and I'm you know far from the only one struggling but yeah I think like accepting it I brings me peace and knowing like that's that's actually okay like it's it's how I pick myself back up up as well it's not like yeah I think the fact that I've been able to write books about it and talk about it now and I can talk about it really easily I think that shows I understand it more and I think going into hospital was what did that for me because before I felt like I was just abnormal and that I was crazy and I didn't really understand what was medically happening and why

it was happening and I think for me understanding things in in that way made me feel like more normal and more measured so I think yeah I mean I do accept it is it is who I am it is what it is but some days it's just frustrating yeah I think it's really important to recognize that though because there's so much like there's so much um some these solutions out there to make yourself happy like you say like go from wall just practice yoga sit with yourself meditate and then when you do all of that it's like it's not fucking working yeah it's actually great to know it was never going to work it's like trying to put a band and show a plaster on a sharp bite so like kind of I don't know like you said giving giving it over to the professionals

must mean just like it's just important um but I wanted to ask like how you deal with it at home like how it's affected like because you're a parent now but obviously as well like it's been kind of the whole way through your relationship with Wayne and like how are you now how do you cope with it together or is it just always been in the fabric of I think we've learn a lot together as a couple in that I have had to learn to tell him what I need when I'm feeling rubbish and when I'm having an off day and he has had to learn that to learn that I'm not asking him to fix it because it can't be fixed there's nothing to be fixed I don't want someone to kind of try and give me solutions I just need him to be there but it's taken me

you know we've been together 11 years it's taken me nearly I'd say about eight years about relationship to figure that out. So he kind of now, you know, if I'm having a day where I just can't get out of bed, he'll take the kids out. He won't ask me, he'll just be like, me and the kids are going to the park and they'll go out. So he kind of knows when I need those moments. And he knows when he can be like, no, come on, let's go. Let's go for a walk. Let's go to the gym. So I think it's just growing together, just figured it out. It feels like, I think it goes against such a gender normative thing because I think men love fixing things and women are terrified to be a burden and like I said I feel that within my relationship but I think it's a

really common thing even before you bring a mental health thing and where a woman feels like she kind of has to think bring a deal with their own stuff and be brave and shoulder a lot and then men feel like they see a woman with a problem and they need to help fix the problem yeah and it's really difficult to like remove egos and remove like how we think it's supposed to happen to make it how it actually happens and I really much someone who taught me that at some point before well like I got married because it's like oh my god this is really hard to like I know I like it's like I'm like you can't make this better I'm a fucking nest today like I know this excuse like my anxiety need to say you worry like you would worry when you were a kid about

bad things happening I'm like sometimes I just go there sometimes everybody I love is probably dead okay and he's like well they're probably not I don't need this from you this is not what I want to hear right now it doesn't I just think so So, we're wired so differently and it's so cool that in so many relationships now, like mental health can be a discussion and a communication, like an ongoing communication rather than just, I don't know, you know, so much, it's even like something like jokes about, like, women just being tired, like, oh, she's not in the mood because she's tired, she's got a headache because she's always sloppy with the kids and she's always nagging or whatever. And it's like, it's so good with all those tropes go and you can just like be two people that just respect each other. Oh, he bless him and he puts that with all sorts, like we were on a flight and there was turbulence. and I had planned like our whole death of like us and the kids of like how I would have got to the boys and like how I would have handled it or whatever and the turbulence went on for ages so when the seatbelt sign came off I walked him and I just burst into tears and he was like it took his headphones off and was like what is wrong and I was like I just basically planned our whole death and he was like what it's wrong with you so like he just kind of accepts it now do you know what I mean that's what it is we've been together so long and I think with kids you just kind of you know like I will say to the boys oh mum is not feeling very well I don't go into it with them but um I do think you know when you thought children you do both just kind of have to go like

okay like how do we deal with this and just get on with it because you don't want it to kind of affect them that's like that's cool that you can have a kind of conversation with your kids even if it's not you know I don't know when do you plan on telling your kids like no I mean when I wrote the book um people would say oh how would you feel if the boys read it and it wouldn't It wouldn't bother me if they read it. I think it's good for them to know about mental health and I actually think by the time they're a bit older, it's just going to be a normal conversation.

I hope it is. I mean, it's come on leaps and bounds since I was their age. But I try to have conversations with them, even though I'm someone that has depression and anxiety. I don't really know how to start those conversations with an eight-year-old and a six-year-old. So I just kind of, my eldest is quite an overthinker. My youngest is a bit more like Wayne is a bit more like,

fuck it and thinks he has his own ideas which I love um so I just kind of ask them at the end of every day when they're in bed I'll ask them what's made them happy that day and like what's made them sad or scared and they love it so if I forget they're like mommy you've not asked us about the day you know um so it just then kind of gives me as a parent insight into like what might be going on for them um and and gives them and lets them know that they can voice those things Because I think when we were younger, not, you know, as an insult to our parents, but it just wasn't, kids didn't really have those kind of feelings or thoughts. You know, I was just a warrior and everyone kind of thought it was quite funny. Whereas now I think we do take it a bit more seriously.

Totally. There was so much stigma around it back then, which actually leaves me to something that I really want to talk to you about because it was 2012 when you opened up publicly about your mental health struggles. and I remember it so clearly because it felt like you were the one you were like one of the first people in the public eye to actually openly and honestly speak about it and it just it felt like it was it felt like a shock at the time just because there was so much shame and stigma around it like it was only what 10 like just over 10 years ago but like worlds apart from where we are now right that was really a brave thing for you to like do and like a brave decision for you to make like you just didn't have to. Why did you decide to do it and then what was the what was the response like to it? I think for me it was because at that time we were the Saturdays we were kind of in like our prime of our career so obviously everyone was very aware that I was missing and then it was kind of like for the press it was you either had some sort of addiction or you had an eating disorder they were the only two reasons that you went into like a mental hospital or whatever you're supposed to call what to call them psychiatric

postage. I'm like, I'm like, I'm really well and I don't even know what the right term is. And so for me it was just kind of like not because I would have been ashamed if either of those two things was something that I and you know obviously had it a bit but also I was just like there is more to mental health than just those two things like it was almost like there's a celebrity illness that people get and that's it. Um, so. So I wanted to talk about it for that reason, and also for, which sounds really cheesy, but for our fans, like I just felt like I had, you know, there were young girls, a lot of young girls that looked up to us and it just felt wrong to kind of act like everything was okay and not to talk about it. And I felt like I'd been almost lying for so many years about who I was. And actually it felt like a real, almost like a coming out moment of being able to just kind of be myself and be like, this is who I am, this is what happened.

and actually people still come up and talk to me about that glamour magazine article which feels amazing because it was like it was such a moment for me because I knew so many people would say oh you know she's rich and famous what she got to be upset about try being us and you know all the usual things but actually predominantly it was really positive and I think it really helped me with feeling better it's so interesting what you say about that it was like cocaine or an eating disorder basically that was like, it's like singing like the Lindsay Lohan like, I don't want to like, not what's it called blaspheme

I don't want to, what's it called? Are you slander? Slander. I don't like slander Paris Hilton, but like, you know, there was like, there was a lot around that time of like the kind of glamorous mental health. Yeah. Or not even glamorous, but kind of cool, like, it was cool, like, it was inevitable and they were so like thin and partying all the time. It's the child star, you know, I was no like,

you know, we weren't worldwide famous, but it had been in the public icing stars 12, so I just felt like it was just a real easy cop out for people to say, like, oh look, it's another one. But it's depression and anxiety, of course, like they're so linked into probably what so many people who went off the rails in terms of, like, drugs were feeling, but it's, that kind of brings with it the kind of, like, expected level of glamour and, like, of, that is typical of, like, pop and rock stars or whatever, whereas, I suppose, coming with that, which is something that so many people,

many people are affected with you know it's not generally like wild cocaine addictions and like smashing up hotel rooms is not relatable but like the depression that you were feeling is for a lot of people and I suspect like that's why it was so I don't know human of what have you to do it I think it was only really Stephen Frye at the time yeah I love him yeah but there were I never done drugs because I have too much anxiety around even taking like an extra neurofen but I remember thinking I can see why people in the public eye do it like I can see why that is such a big thing because you are you know you

are on these huge highs that you can't ever get back you know there's nothing that compares to stepping out on a stage and hearing people sing a song or calling your name or clapping in these you know there's nothing like that so then there's these huge huge lows and if you're someone that's trying to chase that I can completely see how it happened didn't happen for me but um yeah boringly but yeah it was just around that time it just was yeah

no one was really talking about it were your bummates aware at the time of what was going on did they know not really to the extent and I think that just shows how I mean like I'm sure you would know how well you can hide things like that

I think there was one kind of breaking moment for me we went to Ireland to do a gig and we'd got a flight there and we got to the hotel room and I just walked into my hotel room shut all the curtains and just got in bed and just got in the dark and I just sobbed I just didn't want to go out didn't want to do anything and I think Molly came in

and found me and she just was so shocked because she'd never seen me in that state before and she literally like I think I posted it on Instagram once there's a picture of her with her arm around me after the gig and it looks like just two friends you know we left the gig together but she was literally holding me up and that's what it was like I've managed to pull it together for this show but I think that was like one of the last gigs that I managed to do because I was just like I just didn't want to be there anymore I couldn't stop crying I couldn't pretend anymore but the other girls didn't really see it and it wasn't until I came out of hospital and started to try and slowly get back into doing gigs and I think there was one first one that I

went back to and had a massive panic attack and I wasn't able to do it and it was the first time they'd all seen me have like a proper panic attack and I think it really scared them and I think it really shot them that that's what had internally been going on without them seeing and just how well I'd hidden it. And also, I bet they were, I mean, I'm not saying they were having mental health struggles of their own, but obviously they were tackling all different things in their own, you know, lives and being part of this successful band. Like I imagine, you know, just for like someone who doesn't suffer from mental health issues anyway, that's a lot to have on your place. It's probably quite difficult to keep up with what is, you know.

You just go in to work and you just do what you're there to do. Like we had fun, don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed it and I loved it, but you do. You go in, you get given the schedule, right, you're here, you're just about given enough time to have lunch, have a week. You know, like, you're just from one thing to the next. So it's very easy to keep all those things under wraps. Can I, and I don't, I'm not remembering wrongly, but did you do a show about TV, about trolling? Yeah, a TV show. Yeah, I was going to ask.

like how because that was one of the first times I remember my mum sending me something that you've done I'm like oh my god she's this is so cool like she's confronting the trolls because I used to get trawled so bad and they're just able to kill myself because they're awful and it was you doing talking about it so openly about being trolled and sounds really lame it's gonna have to go with me but I think because I looked up to you as a band member and like all the work that you did then seeing that people I really nearly just fell off my chair, and then seeing people that could be mean to you.

I think when you're being trolled, like, it's a very, like, isolating thing, and I always felt like, it must be me, like, there's got to be something really wrong with me, because they can see this thing that I can't see, and everybody knows that I'm terrible apart from me, or you're doing me. But when I saw that you were dealing with it and you confronted it and, like, went out about it, I was like, oh, my God. Like, if they don't, like her what task did I even stand and it actually made me feel so much good better um but it was also kind of like the beginning of a massive conversation online about like trolling and stuff um yeah so they'd like track these trolls down and then we'd just kind of turn up at like their place of work or like

their house or so far i was terrified but i was like oh yeah and what i found was that they're not we all want to kind of go oh they're these like really you almost imagine a troll don't you like these people that yeah like live in the dark and whatever and they weren't they were people that had like one of the people we confronted was a policeman and he'd like trolled this woman for seven years he'd like put her her address online

and told people to go and get her and you know horrendous things and he just got a slap on the wrist and didn't lose his job or whatever but I sat down and spoke to a couple of trouble like one was just very like was kind of what you imagined like didn't you know didn't really socialize and was very unhappy and um was kind of like well you kind of pick yourself out there so you kind of deserve what you get basically and then another one kind of said he was sorry but i don't believe him for a second i think he was just embarrassing he got caught and his family and friends were going to see it and he was like normal guy with normal job um so i think that was a big shock for me and actually

it didn't make it it almost made me feel worse because I was like oh god these aren't just like these scary people that live in the dark these are like normal walking humans um but for me my big turnaround moment was when the guy from what's the film fast and furious died in that car crash yeah and i remember looking online at the comments and the comments were disgusting were they and i just thought you know what frank if they can say things about a poor guy that's just lost his life in a tragic accident and I'm sure he had a kidney and whatever they say just oh he deserved it oh it was probably driving too far oh he's a rubbish act you know just stupid things that have nothing that you just don't say in those situations and just from that day on I just didn't really look

at comments because I just thought I felt like that with our friend Debs I'm sure you knew Debs's Valved Debs and they've been they trolled her so mercilessly and I just thought how what the fuck is wrong with you yeah I suddenly fundamentally really wrong. Really, really wrong. Yeah. And it's like, I think the way that we've talked about trolls is so interesting because, again, like it did feel like a shift when you did that because it finally was like we acknowledged it, but it's this really weird, like, so if it's a British thing, well, we kind of just don't want to acknowledge that it's happening. And it's like, but it's bad. Like it's really, really bad. But also here in this country, I don't know if

it's changed now, but if I was to track down like your IP address and say if you two were living in the same house. By the time it gets to that and the police go, who is it? And you go, well, I live here, but she lives here. You're not going to know which one it is. And then they go, okay, we're never going to figure that out and they walk away. But in Scotland, they don't. They really go for it. I met a guy whose son had Down syndrome and he was like, loved this football team and was a mascot and things like that. And they did some horrendous things about him online. And like they actually, the police took it the whole way and it went to court and things like

that whereas in this country we just don't know so it can be done yeah it's of course it can be done it should be done like do you still get trolling now or is it i don't you know what i don't i wouldn't say i get trolled as such like i don't get you get the odd knobbed that's always got something to say and you know those i try not to respond and i have done in the past and it just gets you nowhere and there's just no point and then i end up feeling bad about myself and disappointed in myself that I responded and then I start thinking are they right have I done these things you know I'm always in my head I'm like I have done the bad thing like yeah whatever anyone says like you know when you walk for an airport I will walk through the things

and be like oh my god I've got drugs on me and I've never touched run in my life but I'm famously we know about your drug use yes exactly you're not surprising it's point you know I'm just like one of those people I'll always think I'm guilty so that I start questioning myself um but I wouldn't say I get told so much I actually find it harder now if someone comments on the kids or on Wayne and now having started a clothing brand like I try everything in my power to be inclusive and like really it's like always on my mind and then when someone is not happy with something that you do you take it really personally but it's and it's hard to remove yourself from those things sometimes but people have opinions

and personally I wouldn't voice them in a way that a lot of people do and not on your kids either no yeah that was that was one of the yeah that's the worst I just find the way that people talk to and about mums online oh it's a whole not oh my god a whole another thing horrific if I could I would have a baby in secret I would literally it would just be like who's is that we like there was I don't know I see you can't do anything right from the minute you're pregnant you're screwed I mean it's lovely everyone should do it yeah the the peripheries I just there wasn't the mum piece I'm just like God

I mean, right, I got a dog like two years ago and I was stunned at just the outpouring of shit I got about that and it must be like a million times that for having a baby. It must just be absolutely. And I just can't believe that people actually do it and maintain like healthy normal lives by being like mum influencers and like sharing everything because the amount of shit, well we see it.

We see like the mum influencers that we follow. Like just the amount they get is unreal. I know. there's always something you're doing wrong. I always say, God, if you knew all the shit, you know, you've got to feed them last night. But no, like, yeah, there's always something someone's got to say. And I think when it's your parenting and things like that,

it's really hard to take. I must be hard. But also, I'm like, you don't know me. Like, even when someone says to me, oh, you're such an amazing mum, I think, you don't even know if I am or not. You only see what I let you see. Yeah.

So, yeah, it's just a whole not football game. Yeah, I don't know. Jesus. I was just, on a personal level, because I'm interested in understanding. Do you think, like, having kids and getting married, because you've been famous for such a long time? Does it kind of, like, change, do it feel inevitable? Does it kind of, like, change your brand and, like, how you feel about yourself?

And I say brand, just because you exist publicly. Like, so, I mean, I always talk about it and run. I'm like, what a knob. But I mean, like, how you're perceived by the world. Like, do you think it's changed? Yeah, definitely. And I actually really struggled with that at first. So I think that whole change started for me when I was pregnant in the Saturdays and I gained like four stone when I was pregnant and as someone who had always felt that I had full control over what my body looked like, I've monitored everything that I put in my mouth and to have, to be pregnant was something that I'd always wanted from such a young age. I knew I wanted to be a young mum. So I was finally getting what I always wanted, but feeling out of control of my body was really difficult for me.

And then to do that publicly made it 10 times harder. And in the public eye, people had got used to seeing me in a certain way. And the minute that changed, it was just like, it just opened up the chance for anyone to say anything they wanted. And I used to go on stage and feel apologetic to be there. I used to think, I used to feel so embarrassed. Like I remember walking out on stage with the rest of the girls and just the whole time dancing, just kind of looking at the audience as if to be like, I'm so sorry. It just felt awful and obviously being next to four other girls that still looked the same were still the same size, you know, and it was really difficult for me to go through that in front of everyone and I'm still someone now that kind of, I would love to say and I would love to be one of those women that kind of goes, oh well my body's changed because I've got my children and that's a positive thing and stretch marks are great, but I'm just not there. For me, all of that. That is just a beacon to say to people,

oh look, this was that time that I lost control. And that's, I think it's really sad, and I know that's really sad, but I can't, I can't change that. That's really important that you say. Definitely. Like the perception that like every woman is like fulfilling her duty on this earth by doing this and they kinda fucking love it.

It's like, you might not love it, like. Oh, I'm not the person. If you're like, I don't know we have to get pregnant, I am not the person to ask I hated every second of it. Like, I loved the outcome, and I wanted the baby, but the process for that was, I was sick, I put on loads of weight, I got stretch marks, I've got like, saggy skin, and, you know, and for someone who, there was so much onus on how I looked.

So, yes, it has changed. I think people look at you differently as a woman once you have kids anyway. Then it's like, you've gone back to work too soon, or if you don't work, then you're, you know, seen as less than, or I just don't think you can win either way, but that's, And then there's the snapping back or not snapping back and there's just so much stuff that comes of it. And like that's so sad about you sort of like feeling apologetic on stage but it would have been different if you guys had been valued for like how well you sang like we

were talking about before or like how well you danced or like what good band you were but it was all on like your entire value it sounds like was placed on how you look. But I think a lot of that was from me as well like I don't know what everyone in the audience was thinking you know I know I see I mean sort of like it's like in the media I yeah I think so yeah but also a lot of that pressure did come from me internally as well like I totally was like putting that on myself and obviously it was always written about and we all know how it all was then and whatever it's so different now like it kind of feels like Rihanna really like did something with that pregnancy

and then like little mix were up on stage yeah kind of dressing their bumps and that was never done because it was always like dressed to hide it Oh, we were always hiding. Yeah, and it's like, oh, oh, like, you know, the heap of horror shit. Like, people would full well put, like, a pregnancy bump, as there's something to be ashamed of in a magazine. But, like, it does feel now, like, there's this real, like, feminine energy of, like, reclaiming the bump and stuff. But I can imagine, because it's just all the connotations of being a mother, it's that you're frumpy and old, or you're a maiden, or all in this shit. So it's like, and then you've got to go out and still be the same girl in a girl band that you've always.

seen yeah I find it very coming back coming back was hard because obviously I felt the pressure to lose all the way and I'd had comments made while I was pregnant and and I still remember I was saying to someone actually yesterday I did one of the first performances I did when I came back was top of the pops and I really didn't want to be there because I felt that I didn't look right and it was really hard to dress and I didn't enjoy it and I remember it came out and I got this message from this girl and she was like you should be be embarrassed, you're too fat to be up on there and all of this stuff like really went in hard and obviously when it's something you're already thinking it just was like okay see I told you

I shouldn't be here but then actually when I clicked on her profile she was someone that was overweight and I just thought you can't how does the world work like why is another woman saying this to another woman why have you got the right to say it to me and I shouldn't be looking at hers and going oh well she's big as well so but then just causes this projecting her own pain onto you. Yeah, and I just thought, oh, I just, I mean. Yeah, but then, and I want to make clear as well that, like, everyone there, like the fans watching you and everything will be watching you for you

because they loved you guys and they loved your music. I want to make that clear as well that I, before when I was saying, like, rather the media perception and, like, what was being written about in, in, like, the newspapers or the headlines, but your fans, I'm pointing out. Oh, no, I know, I know, I know you, don't know. I can't hear you know, obviously. I can't stress it enough. I love that.

I'm excited by this. But I couldn't have told you what any of your dress sizes were or anything. It wasn't that sort of fan. You know, I never felt like that as a fan of your music. It's been a lot of songs. I think, no, but I think, you know, a lot of that, I felt that pressure from the media and for myself. I don't think fans ever made me feel that way.

No. Ever, you know, they would never come up and say, I knew the difference between where that pressure was coming from. somewhere wasn't yeah yeah it's quite extraordinary though the way that people projecting would project their pain onto and I think I mean everybody just needs better therapy but you've always been such a good example of the fact that there's somebody there's a human behind behind the like the star or the celebrity or the singer or whatever because I would have fallen into that trap a hundred percent

like I was a horror like I was some worse as a teenager like I was one of those people that if I saw someone pretty my first thing would be like I hate them they're so pretty which actually I mean I sound like that's foul that's absolutely foul but it's like the way that we're conditioned to just hate people who are like prettier than us and it's so healthy and exciting now I think that like

even for people like me it gives it's a lot of healing for people who have been unhappy in themselves to realise that there have been humans behind that the whole time and all that we've compared ourselves to it's like a constantly moving scale I don't know it's really like it's good shit

I think it's changed loads over the years. I think you can't get away with kind of putting out this perfect life and this perfect person anymore. And I think people just don't buy it. And also it's just tiring. I don't think it's a healthy way for people to live. If they are like that, then fine. You know, there's people that are tidier than me and more polished than me and I'm never going to be that person. But I don't think I'd still be able to be doing what I'm doing if that was still, you know. In a band, you're not there to have an opinion, really. You're there to kind of perform and entertain and that's fine but it's nice to be able to do the other things then.

Yeah. Now going back to mental health it's been it's been 10 years since you opened up at it what have been the changes that you have seen in the realm in the sphere of mental health and how we talk about it and how we and how it's viewed now. Have you seen a huge change? Oh my gosh yeah it's totally different I mean like we said no one else is really talking about it when I spoke about it um you know more often than not people would question how you could have a mental health issue if everything in her life was great. And I just think the fact that it is a conversation now has changed. Like I remember going to the Mind Awards back in the day and it was tiny. So even if I look at

that, how big that has become. Every year I go, I always say to Wayne, I'm like, my God, it's even bigger this year. You know, like it's, yeah, it's growing and people are taking it more seriously and I think the fact that that has kind of filtered down to children of like my kids ages and stuff you know they kind of learn about it a bit more at school people talking about it on social media you know podcasts everything like it just wasn't a conversation to be had and I think even with doctors and stuff there's still a way to go but I think you know I genuinely believe if I was a kid like I was when I was a kid kid. I don't know how to wear that better. Now, and I went to the doctor with all the symptoms

that I had. I don't think their first instinct would be like, let's give her a blood test, let's give her an inhaler. They would maybe possibly think about the fact that maybe I'm anxious. And although labels can be annoying sometimes, I sometimes think they're very needed to be able to get what you need. And I do think that I possibly wouldn't have ended up having a mental breakdown had I have been a child now. But then, I would have had social media to do it, so I don't know. I know, I know, it's... It's such a mix.

You've just, like, unlocked a memory for me of when I was, like, 13 or 14, and I was having panic attacks, and I went to the doctor. My mom took me to the doctor, and he, I remember he had this, like, really old printer in his room that took, like, 10 minutes to print one page, and he was, like, sorted. I know what you've got, and he printed out, like, 10 pages of stuff about anxiety. And that was it. And that was actually it. Yeah. And that obviously wasn't going to do anything. Like, looking back now, that was so crazy. He was like, come back when you were like, old enough to take antidepressants. And that was just it. I was like, what's 10 pages going to do? I mean, at the time, I was like, oh, this is obviously the answer. So I read the 10 pages and it was like, breathe more deeply, which does, like, admittedly, breathing does help with anxiety. But it wasn't quite going to cure me at that time. But so, yeah, I hope things have, like, I'm sure they've moved on from there in Dr. are better equipped at handling things like that. I think they are. I think the problem is that everyone's comes out so differently. So everyone has to kind of adjust to each person individually on how to treat someone. So I understand that there's not a one-size-fits-all, but they kind of need a one-size-fits-all to be able to do a blanket thing across, you know, the country.

But I was in hospital once with my eldest son. And we were on a ward and there was just one girl on the ward and just you know because you hear everything hospital it'd become a parent that she'd tried to take her own life and they'd kind of like left her on her own there she was quite young people were going in and out but no one like really stayed with her and um and like a nurse came and gave her a coloring book and i was like she's a bit far on from you know coloring for mindfulness and then like her mom was just sat with her just like but you know i love you i love you so much you know how loved you are and I just wanted to kind of go over and just like hug her mama be like she knows she loves you that's not the issue like and it's I think it's so

hard if it's not something you've ever experienced to be able to fix it and to know what to do so I think all these conversations that everyone is having now are so important but my doctor used to say it's like someone standing in trying to understand what it feels like to drown by standing in a shower and it's so true if you've never really had those feelings it's really hard to understand you know where people say like oh i've been sad before or i've felt depressed before and it doesn't make me angry because i just think well you've not felt it so you wouldn't know yeah um so i think people are more open to trying to understand it yeah i i actually think the the amount that it's come on the conversation is

not just like thanks to make it your ass but like it's like you've paved the way for a lot of people and other people in the public eyes talk about mental health struggles so you should be really proud of that as well and I'm sure I can't imagine how many people like you just speaking about it helped because like you say you felt like you were the only person and I think you're just like crazy though it's like something wrong with you and it's like I'm just weird or something like how many people will have heard you talking about it and being like oh my god it's not just me you know because it can feel so isolating so I think that's really cool that you did that and amazing so kudos to you for that yeah i was i was just going to ask if we could end on this question

and it's to put you on the spot what would you say to anyone who's struggling right now who's in the thick of it who is feeling the way you did when you admitted yourself to hospital what would you say to them and like what advice would you give them or maybe not advice but just what words would you would you give them i know that's really hard i'm so sorry no i know it's depends on what people have around them really um i'd say on like a a personal level if you're having to try and because i think when you're in the thick of it you just believe that there is no way out and you're going to feel like this forever um and i think you have to just always remind yourself that you do come out the other side and i think the more times that you go down into

that black hole and come back out i always kind of i explain it as like banking it so if If I'm anxious about something or if I'm feeling depressed, I just have to remember those other times that I felt like that and I came back out the other side. So I think you have to try and bank them and call on them when you need them. And also, it's like the most obvious one, but you just have to talk to someone, anyone. Whoever you feel like you can talk to you, it doesn't have to be a doctor, it doesn't have to be your mum and dad, just someone, just to get it out because sometimes when you, you hear back what you've been telling yourself for so long silently inside your own head,

you realise how ridiculous it is when it comes out loud. So I think that's a really big thing to make sure you do. That old adage that I love is, you know, a problem shared as a problem halved. It's not true, it's not a problem half, but it takes a huge amount of weight off of the, why you're looking at you just said. That's the most famous cliche ever. I know. I hate my use of clemen.

Every time I tell her to do something as simple was live, laugh, laugh. Oh, no one wants to live love laugh. I know, ew. She's wriths for shit out and me. What's like I say to this? Don't smile. Don't cry because it's over, because it happens.

But it's a lovely. It's lovely. You shat all over it and there you are now. Probably shared in the problem. That's original that. What's it like, wiki quotes are you right now and it's like, wow. She's banking them. You're welcome.

You're welcome. You're welcome, everyone. Words of wisdom. But it is really true. And sometimes when you say things like that, this sounds like a clue, I don't even care, fucking that a cliche. It takes the power away.

When you say the big scary thing and it's so big in your head and then you let the words out and they actually look really small. Yeah. You're like, oh. It's ridiculous. I can go into therapy and think,

oh, I've got nothing to talk about today. It's such a waste of time. And then I say something that I've literally been convincing myself for the last like two months or whatever. And then I say it and then I'm like, oh yeah, that's really stupid. Like, why have I been thinking that?

And I think it takes longer for you to recognise those moments when you're in the thick of it and the more times that happens the not the easier it gets because it's still fucking annoying but you you can recall on those moments and I think yeah it's a big thing amazing thank you thank you so much I couldn't be happy all right guys thank you so much for listening we will see you again on Thursday for an episode of is it just me thanks for listening should I delete that is part of the ACAS creator network.