Should I Delete That? - Gemma Styles: it’s not a bandwagon it’s a party bus

Episode Date: July 3, 2022

Last week we lost Em’s dear friend and inspiration to us all, the incredible Dame Deborah James. You can support the Bowel Babe Fund here: https://www.bowelbabe.org/In this episode, the girls talk with mental health ambassador and podcast host, Gemma Styles. They discuss how she chooses to be a good influence while working through her own mental health and making peace with her ADHD diagnosis. If you want more, you’re in luck! You can listen to Alex and Em on Gemma’s podcast, Good Influence, available here.Al also talks us through her decision to freeze her eggs and Em accuses her of dressing like a postman…Follow us on Instagram @shouldideletethatEmail us at [e-mail] by Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Oh my god, why did I post that? Ah, I don't know what to do! Should I delete that? Yeah, you should definitely delete that. We are so happy and proud that this episode is sponsored by Butternut Box, a brand that we love for many reasons. As you'll probably already know, if you follow us both on Instagram, butternut Box is a fresh dog food delet. service that delivers straight to your door and takes into consideration all of your dog's

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and they even donate freezers so that the shelters can store the meals. If you would like to try Buttonut Box out for your dog, you can get 50% off your first two boxes with the following link. www.wbuttonupbox.com forward slash Alex and M. Hi!

Ola! Hello! That's it. Oh, there we go. Nice. Yeah. That's literally as many languages as I know Hello in, which is embarrassing.

What's hello in German? Hi. No, I don't know. Oh my God, why can't I think of this? Hi. I don't know. You're the linguist. Oh, hello.

Okay. Hello. Hello. Okay, good. We smashed that. Hi, how are you? I'm good, I'm good, I'm good. I don't sound great, but I'm good.

You've got a sore throat, haven't you? Yeah, but I'm fine. How are you doing? I'm good. I feel like I haven't spoken to you in ages. I know we had a meeting together yesterday, but I was really rude to you, and then we went for our separate days,

and that was kind of that. Yeah, I just sliked off your outfit, but otherwise, I've not seen you, I've not heard from you, and I've missed you loads, so I'm happy, I'm just happy to be here, I'm happy to have you in my presence. It's all good. Yeah, you did slag me off.

We'll get to that, actually. That might feature in today's episode. I'm sorry. The postman? Is it the postman that's here? You love a postman? You love a postman? I do. Maybe this is a good time actually to go into my awkward. Okay, go into it. And it's my fault and I'm sorry and I love you and you're so pretty and you're so good at getting dressed and I just love you.

No, it's too late. It's too late. So as we've been talking about on the podcast, dressing summary and I was like oh my god today's the day right I'm going into town and I'm going to dress summary and I checked the weather and it said 23 degrees and I remember you saying that 23 meant no jacket right so I was like I'm not going to wear a jacket for once I'm going to wear a white linen skirt which is really pretty like had a frill at the bottom a little black body suit and like I was like over rather than a denim jacket which I wear all the time I'm like I'm going to wear this little blue short sleeve shirt that I've got and like wear it open cute anyway mistake because as soon as I left the house it was fucking raining but

I was too late to go around and change so I was like oh my god I try and do something nice so I get into town and we go to this meeting and we're halfway through the meeting and I'm just it's like staring at my shirt like staring at it I'm like what she says you look like a postman the summer because it's the royal male it's the royal male summer uniform is a short sleeve blue shirt

and I didn't I didn't mean like you look like the postman because your outfit was so pretty and you looked so nice and I was so proud of you so well I saw you walking down the street looking so summery I was like oh my god it was like boring with rain I was like who is that

she's totally fucked it but she looks great and I loved your outfit but you know when you're staring at something and it really reminds you of something and I was looking at that shirt and I was like where do I know that shirt from?

And then I realised that it's the guy at the sorting office wears it every day because they wear the pale blue shirt and if you Google it we found it it's a pale blue shirt with the little red Royal Mail sticker on it literally all I'm using

with the Royal Metal logo it wasn't like you just look terrible it was just that that shirt just triggered a response in me a memory did you enjoy your summary outfit I did I did

but now that shirt all I see is Postman I'm really sorry all I see is Postman but I did enjoy the summary outfit and I enjoyed feeling like almost chilly nice yeah yeah I'd say that is nice

but also I just want to say like Postman is not Cicinaman Cinnamon bun. Sorry, it's not synonymous. I fell out my mouth. It's not, oh my God, it's not synonymous with insulting. Like, it's, it's, by no means a bad thing to look like the postman. It was just that, that outfit. Like, if you'd have shown up in like a chunky black jacket with high vye on it, I'd have been like, hey, look like a fireperson. You know, so. It's just not the vibe I was going for, I guess. Yeah, if you'd have showed up in like a hard hat with a bit of checkered ribbon around it, I'd have been. I'm like, oh, a police person. So, you're sorry. What do you want to start with? Well, I think we have to start with a bad. And that is that this week, Dame Deborah James passed away, which obviously we knew was coming.

Deb sort of said her farewell a fair few weeks ago now and since then has gone on to do amazing things. As of this morning, the Boul Babe Fund is at 7 million. pounds which is extraordinary um and yeah i just um it's just the most extraordinary woman it's like i just keep thinking of um of the elton john candle in the wind and it's just like your your candles burned out long before your legend never will and i really feel like that's very true for deb's but it's and i and i'm pleased she's it because she can rest now and she's at peace now but it's very sad um that the world has lost somebody so amazing so yeah and truly like what an like an astonishing like present like what an astonishing person

it's unbelievable the impact she has had and it would be like it's so easy for someone in her position to just have retreated and like that would have been absolutely fine too but the just the sheer amount that she's done and achieved throughout her diagnosis is just unbelievable and I mean seven million pounds that's just extraordinary and that's only the bowel babe foundation right that's had that much like the amount of fundraising she did prior to setting up the foundation like god knows how much all and the rebellious hope t-shirts within the style raised over a million so cumulatively you know she must have raised tens of millions and and in the process as well the things and and I was lucky enough to be friends with Deb and and I know this is a feeling shared among her friends, but also among the people that followed her, is as well as raising a great amount of money and awareness, she also taught us such an extraordinary amount about how to live, like I've never, and how to die, you know, she totally changed the conversation. And I've never been, I've never known anybody like it, and I doubt I ever will again.

I've never known someone that just makes you so relentlessly grateful to be alive. and I remember once when I just run New York Marathon like literally just done it she sent me a text going and I'm signing you up to Lundra marathon and I was on the tube and I replied go fucking hell

and she went and then I went and she went oh come on it'll be fun I'm doing it and I lost signal and I was on tube like oh Christ she's going to do it she's going to do it and by the time I had signal at the other side she's like he done

she's like see you on October I was like fucking hell but you can't say no to Dems and you just didn't want to because everything that she did was so fun. And she was doing it in the face of every bit of every struggle, every piece of adversity that came her way. You know, even when her body was just in full rebellion against her, she just kept on pushing.

It was just the most extraordinary thing to witness, you know, whether that be in real life or online. And I think so many people have taken so much from her. And she's just the most extraordinary person. And it's a huge loss that her legacy will live. on forever among anybody that ever got to witness anything she ever did. So we're going to put the link to the Bal Babe Fund in the description and also to the Rebellious Hope T-shirts that Deb's design within the style.

They now come in lots of different colors and sizes. So if you'd like to get your hands on one of those, I think the message is really special, but also the money is going to a great place. I think, do you know what, Debs would not want anybody sitting here and wallowing. So can we pick this back up? Can we have a good, Al? Can we have a reason to smile today? Something that's made you happy.

Yeah. Oh, God. My good's not really like a smiley kind of thing. I'm regretting that now. But my good is just very simply, like it's no big a huge deal, but I've decided to freeze my eggs. And I've actually made consultations, and I'm going to go ahead with it.

do it and it's been something that I've been thinking about for a really long time and there are obviously like cost implications to think about and a ton of other stuff as well like I might not even be a candidate blah blah but I just I'm pleased that I'm I'm starting the process and like doing something that I really have wanted to do so that's amazing that's exciting I feel and God it's so cheesy the word empowered but I it does it makes me feel empowered to be like taking control of something that you kind of can end up feeling like you've not got much control over. So that feels really good and that's my good. Yeah. That's exactly the word that I was going to use before you just slated the word. Yeah. That's exactly what I was

going to say. That's, that's even looking at your faces, you're saying that. And it is, I think it's really empowering. And I'm so proud of you for talking about it on Instagram because you just said on your page, you know, that people don't ever, there's so. much secrecy around fertility and even saying this now like I don't want to use the word brave because you know well actually fuck it I'll use it um it is brave it's cool and I'm really proud of you do you know what I didn't feel brave until then I looked at my DMs afterwards and I was like wow okay maybe this is why people don't talk about it because why there's a lot and I understand that it's an extremely emotive subject but I think there's just and I think that's what

it comes down to there is so much emotion involved in it and it's it's um a very you know and infertility especially it's a really intense and like grueling thing to go through an IVF and I understand you know I said that on my Instagram that it feels like there is just no there isn't much open conversation about fertility at least that's how it feels to me in my world in my bubble

and I think that sort of fosters an environment that's like feels very isolating and alone and almost like shameful but then I think a lot of people were upset because they said but but I'm going through IVF and like I just don't want to tell people because of you know which I totally understand I mean the questions are endless when people do know that you're going through I know this through friends like when you are going through IVF people asking you all the time like where about where are you in the cycle like when does it get implanted are you pregnant yet what's going on month after month any news any news

and it's I imagine it to be very exhausting and emotional and upsetting and so I understand why people want to keep it secretive you know you know keep it private and I don't know why I'm going on this huge like disclaimer no no I think it's really important but it's so hard to like get everyone to think about everyone especially when I'm totally new to this and all I'm saying is like I'm freezing my eggs you know that's all I'm saying like but I guess with anything you do anything online And any subject that is like this, you do open a can of worms, so I should have known. Well, I think it's, that's why I said it's brave, I think, because a lot of people have so much pain surrounding fertility and infertility that a lot of projection gets put on people, whether, you know, and I think so much of it isn't deliberate, but, you know, even people making baby announcements can be triggering to other people.

and of course that makes so much sense but that's nobody's fault you know it isn't the person who makes the announcement's fault and it's not the person who's upset by that's fault you know it's just it's just a really unfortunate sort of collision of worlds and it's something that's really painful for a lot of people but i think even you know that i i imagine that's where quite a lot of the pain comes from is you know everybody's experiences are so personal you know and it's so all-encompassing that and and i had imagined that it's kind of an open space within the and I don't know but you know I do follow a lot of amazing people who really open up about their IVF journey but I think the first steps into it I think it's it's maybe more common place for people to talk about it once they're in it but for you to talk about it before you go into it is um like maybe maybe that's what's unusual because yeah I mean people don't it's a 12 week thing even you know people are then you're right like there is and of course you don't have to speak about it at all. But I think like societyly, there's there's so much to be gained for at least giving a

space to allowing the conversation. But it's so emotive and it's really hard until it's a societal norm. It's really hard for those first people to, or not the first people, but it's really hard to go against the norm, which I guess is what you're doing by opening up about it. So I do think it's brave. And I think it's huge. Yeah. I mean, I don't like really think it is like I think I've seen like one of my good friends has opened up about her about her IVF journey on Instagram and she's been through a lot of rounds of IVF and that's brave and you see the downside of that as well. I mean she uploaded a COVID test that was positive and she was like oh damn it it got me and then was like flooded with oh my God does this mean you're pregnant? Is this? And I was

she was like can you not read it's a clearly a COVID test like do we not know at this point what a lateral flow test looks like so you know I I feel so you know I don't know I have a lot of empathy without actually and obviously understanding for people going through infertility it's just it's really difficult but I think as well and you said before like knowledge is power right and someone said to me who was 40 and going through IVF and she said to me, just the one thing I wish I'd done when I was younger is freeze my eggs, you know, she wasn't in a position to try when she was younger, but she didn't know, she didn't really know about freezing her eggs. It just wasn't really a thing that was talked about. So, and, you know, obviously it's an absolute privilege and not everyone couldn't afford to do it, of course, and it's not going to be like easy. Anyway, I'm going on and on and on and it's not that big a deal. But yeah, you get my point. I get your point

I'm proud of you it is empowering I think it's really important that women know more about their fertility in general because it's extraordinary that we just don't know

fucking shit about shit so for that alone to know alone what your position is right now is really cool and important and like I think yeah

it's something really empowering about getting to know your body so I'm excited for you on this journey and I love you loads and I hope that everybody treats you with loads of empathy because you deserve it

thanks apparently the two weeks when you do it is like you're just like an absolute bitch so look forward to that hokey-dokey I'll buckle up I've got a bubble wrap I've got a bubble wrap suit that Alex got me for my birthday so I'll just wear that one we have to have like any engagements all right cool sold yeah fine thanks for the heads up

what's your good god I don't think I have one I must have one oh my good well it's a bit beyond now but it was birthday last week which I've always been bad because I hate that she's getting older and she really is getting older now which is a day like something that if I think too much about I cry

which is unhealthy but yeah I've decided to celebrate the fact that she's the best bitch in town she's alive she's driving she rolled in the biggest pile of goose shit this morning and then have to go under the hose and then brought in goose shit paws right through my kitchen so then I had to mop those up for a fair little while

we had a bit of a bit of a bit of a nightmare but she's seven and she's a sensation and I love her loads and I've got Alex's birthday on Saturday this is a good time

for the household because it's Abuah's birthday then we had Georgie's birth oh actually fuck it you know what I'm going to do a two in one it was also Georgie Swallows 30th birthday

Georgie Swallow has beaten cancer's ass twice and 30 was her first big birthday it was the first big milestone that she's reached since she's been in remission

and it was really special to watch her. Be all shit-faced, going down a slip and slide, eating loads of cake. I'm just having a great day celebrating her life. Amazing. That's absolutely what she deserves. Exactly. For anyone that doesn't follow her,

you have to follow her. And also, she's like one of the nicest human beings. I think I've ever come across. Isn't she? Isn't she? Like, it doesn't get nicer than Georgie. No, no. She's so nice.

Yeah. So that was lovely. It's just really, like, it's just been a week of real love, you know? Like, first thing. and then Georgie, got Al's birthday next week, mine's coming up. It's just, we're all, it's just good vibes. We're all getting old. Lots of B days, I like it.

Yeah, it's nice. Yeah, it's cool. Cool, what have you, what have you not about bad? You got bad, you got bad for me, anything terrible? Well, I mean, I, I know, I know, we are all over the place today. I, I, I, there's a man coming to my door with a drill. That's the bad. That type, just found my bad.

if the front if we just have a drilling noise and it's coming through your front door yeah will you help I don't know I mean yeah but no I don't know how I'll try okay will you help I don't know

I'm not good in emergencies I just freeze I can imagine that are you what was the last emergency that you were in and did you how did you handle it do you know what one that has haunted me for a really long time is

one of our cats from back home I took her to the vets years and years of years ago I was like 19 or 20 or something I took her to the vets and you have to take cats in a box crate, a crate that's it a box, cardboard box

in the crate and then when I brought her back like I was opening the door and it's like a dodgy little door to open and her paw got stuck and I come completely froze and it's like I was just like screaming because like she was screaming but I completely froze and then like basically my mum rushed through and sorted it and that has haunted

me ever since because I'm like oh my god what the fuck is wrong with me like it was I could have just sorted it out but I just I don't know I kind of freeze in this situation so that is not good that's interesting I know the poor little cat she was fine she was fine yeah she's a bit of do you're dramatic anyone that's what you tell yourself I'm really good in a crisis I imagine that you would be

I launch into it me and Alex together my mum always said that like you ever see Ray Donovan no it was a really good show anyway

I'm just I'm really good in a crisis it's a surprise internally I'm a mess like internally everything's on fire but externally I'm like okay we can handle this we will handle this and I just handle it

but on like I say inside like beams are falling children are screaming like everything's burning it's horrendous but outside I'm like ok-loki like let's go that's like yeah like when one of the dogs goes AWOL which happens frequently because they just they use their little noses and they just run honestly you think we were keeping them in like guandanamo like the door opens and they're like see ya and it's like are you joking like you live on the sofa you're fed twice a day you'll give us so much love and yet when the door opens they're like

bye fuck it is not all of them but uh Bisto Bistow's a runner um but he always goes to the neighbour's house like and I was like what's so good about half Bistow you came from the streets of Romania you are loved you are loved and a door like the labs

don't care they'll come back because they know where their food is but the Scottish Terrier he's honestly he's like fuck you I'm out like fuck you people I am done with this place door opens, see ya oh my god

but he doesn't run he just walks away so you probably could keep up with him if you had a good speed on you as well but he just he's like my he wouldn't run away that would be undignified he just walks away

where's he going who knows he's like I don't think you even deserve I am preserving my dignity by walking away here 100% like he's not running from anything this is a choice

and he's going to do it in the way that he wants. This is deliberate, guys. Yeah, Bisto's like a rocket. He's like, bye. But he's also the same, to be honest. He doesn't run away from you. But if you try and, like, you know, when he goes to the neighbours,

and you try and get him, he just walks away from you. It's a really annoying, embarrassing thing because it's like, you're kind of walking towards him and he's just walking away. And I'm like, don't do this with me. Like, don't do this with me. Even if it's, like, in a secure area,

you know, and you're just trying to get him to come back in the house. Like, because we've got a secure bit where obviously, like, he's allowed in or whatever but you just have to keep walking towards him and he's like what he just keeps walking away it's like i did that thing on my instagram it's like things that are embarrassing for no reason and it's like that like chasing a dog or like trying to get a dog on the lead who doesn't want to be put on the lead it's like oh my god it's so embarrassing because you're like

kind of bending kind of stooping and still walking and it's walking and it's just like oh god it's so embarrassing oh my god that has unlocked a little awkward for me very quickly and that happened last night and I totally forgot about it. So I went to this really swanky party. It was at HarperCollins party and it was very cool and everyone was very posh and dressed of very posh. And I met this literary agent. I think she was.

Yeah, she was. But like a big cheese apparently. I don't know much about the publishing world still so I'm not really sure. But anyway, I held out my hand to shake her hand because they said on the invite like don't hug people, like no hugging. So I held out my hand to shake her hand.

And she just, I don't know if she just didn't see it or ignored it. I don't know what happened, but I was stud with my hand out for like far too long. And then I was like, it's too, it's too awkward for me to pull it away. So I, like, jammed, like jabbed my hand into hers. Like, I am trying to shake your hand and you will not leave me hanging like this. And she was like, hmm, okay, and just like sort of grabbed my, like, grabbed a couple of my fingers. and I was like, thank you. Thank you.

Oh, my God. There's a video of, I saw it on TikTok. All the time Vladimir Putin's been left hanging for a handshake, I'll send it to you. So embarrassing. It's so embarrassing. And it happens to him like, like, it happened to him like six or seven times with like big cheeses. Like prime ministers, like Kim Jong-un, like just people just like full on ignoring his hand. So embarrassing.

So embarrassing. He deserves it. 100%. A hundred percent. A hundred. A lot more. I hope that man is permanently chasing a dog that he can't get on a lead. And he's always chasing a ping pong ball and he's wearing his shoes on the wrong feet. And he's always spitting stuff out of his mouth. Yeah, yeah. And no one tells him when he's got stuff between his teeth. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We'll tell him. Look at us. So powerful with our threats. Nice. Sorry, your actual bad. Bad. My actual bad. Well, I suspected that we were going to share our bads this week, I think. And obviously, Obviously, one was Debbs. Like, I didn't know her personally, but I know that you did. And Georgie did as well, really well. And obviously, it was really sad.

And also, Roe v. Wade, I feel like I just, it's, yeah, I just, it's, yeah. I mean, it's, like, obviously flawed everyone, like, completely flawed. And I think what's really, I mean, the whole thing is horrific, absolutely horrific. But it feels like I don't actually know, like, what anyone can do from here. And we were talking yesterday about, like, do we do a podcast episode on it? And it feels like, almost like, what's the point? Because we are preaching to the converted. Like, the rift is very big.

It feels very big, doesn't it? It feels like there's a huge rift between, and, you know, the people that we would, I don't know, that kind of, the whole thing just feels a little bit hopeless. And I feel horrendously sorry for anyone, like all women in America right now, because it's just unbelievable. It's unbelievable. I do. And I think as well, like something that came up a lot was the reminder from people when we talked

about what was happening in America. Like a lot of people were DM in me being like, well, you can't really talk about this because you have to acknowledge Northern Ireland and like the fact that we're not, you know, we haven't really got great rights exclusively over here. And that is definitely worth acknowledging. I think two things can be true. And like we do need the space to be absolutely horrified about the regression of rights. I think something that at least, you know, I know that, and I know this really,

well, like, because again, same as Northern Ireland, the Island, my mum's from, abortion only got legalised in 2019. Alex is from Dublin and he was part of the, you know, he was very much there for the repeal the 8th. So it is something that I'm very aware of and it has actually been a big part of my sort of psyche, but I guess the difference has been that it's always felt at least here like we're moving forwards. And I remember last year it got criminalised in Poland and that was a real, like what the

fuck and to have it happen in america i think the thing that's been so shocking is it's such a pull backwards and a very deliberate pull backwards like 55 years and it's not about life it isn't because the thing that's been so gross has been the fact that guns can you know legislate sorry i'm not using my words probably the fact that states haven't been granted the control over guns but they have been granted the control over women and it's like that the fact that both the rulings were made at the same time. So I know we've got so many problems across the world, but I just think look, and particularly at a home. And for God's sake, fucking Dominic Raab today has just said, or yesterday, said that he didn't want to put abortion rights in the

Bill of, in the Human Rights Act. Like, you know, we are not safe here. And I think something that we have to do is keep our eyes and ears to the ground, like follow the women's equality party and pay close attention to your MP's view on this. Because we do have to support our sisters across the pond, but we also need to keep driving for change in Northern Ireland and really pay attention to what's happening with our MPs here. Because I don't trust this fucking government, not as far as I can throw them. And they've just, the America's just, you know, I mean, I do think the fact that five unelected people made this decision is an extraordinary fucking thing in the free world. Like, I don't understand how that's democracy. And I do

think we stand a better chance here in terms of democracy, but that does rely on us paying attention. And I think something that came up a lot in my DMs when I talked about this was a lot of people on my side, for example, on the sort of pro-choice side. And even people who are pro-life, but understanding that they can be pro-life individually, but they can't inflict their pro-life beliefs on other people, which again is really important. And I really respect people who have that belief, because obviously abortion is a horrible thing. And a lot of people aren't going to want to have one. And don't believe that it's the right thing to do, but they also respect that it's a woman's right to choose, which is, you know, that that's what this comes down to. Anyway,

but I did find a lot of people trying to really kind of like nitpick a lot of what I was saying, and I've seen that quite a lot online with like, oh, well, you know, you said that abortion's always a painful decision and it isn't always an abortion, it isn't always a painful decision and you said this, but it isn't always quite like this. And actually, I think we need to be quite careful not to get too nitpicky with each other and really recognise what the the end goal here is. And that's fighting for human rights, women's rights here and a way. Don't you feel like really despondent with it? Because it's like we are, I do think we are in an echo chamber. And like the stuff we're talking about, we're talking to people who

already agree with us. And that is just worrying. And I don't know. I think, I think it is closer to home than we've realized. I mean, I mean, abortion is the only procedure here that has to be signed off by two doctors, the only one in the UK. That's it. And it's illegal until it's signed off by two doctors, which is crazy, you know. And I mean, I know that often, like I believe that often it's, it's, you know, the doctors are willing to sign it off, but that's, you know, in the doctor's hands, which is crazy. So anyway, I just, yeah. I just, yeah. I just, yeah. I think we should we should do a deeper dive into this and we are working on it we're trying to secure someone who's going to be able to because I think what's important is someone that's going to

be able to explain the system to us fully because there's a lot of confusion around it and yeah so we're working on it and bear with us basically yeah my awkward it's tiny so just yeah we watch out for that episode we're working really hard if you've got any ideas for what we can do or I hope we've got a lead that we're going to be able to sort out this afternoon anyway my awkward, I actually was going to get into this more and then the news about Debs has just made all of my bads just pale into insignificant so I'm actually happy not to have gone into it as a bad but my bad and my awkward were connected.

My bad is turn like and we are going to go into this again. I've been trolled quite badly as it turns out like some people don't like me which was absolutely gutting. Absolutely gutting. And I found a forum and I was properly upset and we will go into that another time. But my awkward stems from that and that's the, A lot of these people seem to think that I do my spelling mistakes on my Instagram stories, on purpose, to drive engagement and make myself sound relatable.

And it's really sad because I don't. I'm just really shit at spelling. I just, I know, but it was like, oh, she thinks she's so this and this. And does she do these on purpose so that people reply and tell her that she says whatever? And I was like, no, I just do them because I'm really bad at spelling. So that people reply and tell you what? I don't know, drive my engagement up. they think I don't bring gay.

And I'm like, oh, please. There's nothing more annoying to me than a DM going, you spell considered wrong. I'm like, oh, God. Literally, he's the worst type of DM or being like, literally a picture of an animal and I said it was a goat or whatever. I don't even know. I don't even know what it was.

People like, that's not a goat, that's a sheep, that's a lamb, not a cow, whatever, I don't fucking know. But like, that is literally the most annoying type of DM to get because you like, you want to connect with people and stuff. So why would you, oh, fuck off, sorry. to get all shouty and sweary, but people really irritate me. Do they not have anything better to do?

Jesus. I know, I know, I know. It's just, of all of it, I was just like, oh, fuck. Like, who didn't think I am? I don't know, I was just like, oh yeah, anyway. So that was just a bit... Imagine seeing someone's stories and then being like,

taking the time to go onto a forum and write, I think she does this to drive engagement. Like, how sad. That is so sad. I know. I know. It did make me laugh. Like just that one. The others made me cry a lot, but that one made me laugh. I was like, oh no. They think I'm clever and I'm actually just really fucking shit at spelling. I don't have that kind of business mind. And we are going to go into this further, aren't we? Oh yeah. Yeah, definitely. I want to talk about the effect. I mean, I do believe that these people will kill someone if they're left unchecked. But I think it's really important that we talk about the way that it, I'm really happy to talk about the way that I feel. And I think, and we, yeah, we're going to do an episode about, about, about learning,

learning how to cope when people aren't nice to you and learning how to, learning, learning how to really believe that other people's opinions of you don't matter. And I'm still on that path. Like, I'm, I'm getting closer to, to the full belief. And sometimes it can, you know, sometimes it's not as easy as other, some days it's not as easy as it's other days. And I think this week I've just felt vulnerable and tired and, and it just hit me harder than other days. but I would like to share part of the journey and the thought process and like how we get to to not let other people's words about us affected so badly so we are going to do an episode on that

and if you've got any questions about that actually send them in and any specific ones about kind of learning to be okay with other people not liking you for example um like hit us up send them into Instagram or email or whatever and we can um we can bring that into the episode as well so it's not just me um but yeah we will we will get into that but fuckers and I hope you're okay. I'm fine. I'm okay. I'm absolutely devastated and this will take probably years to recover from but I'm absolutely fine.

No, I am fine. Anyway, we've got a great interview today with somebody that I'm so happy we've got to have this chat. Wasn't it just like it's just gas? Absolutely. We interview Gemma Stiles who is a friend of both of ours and we talked about mental health and well it really it was just sort of it was like just it felt like a hug the whole episode just felt like a hug it was just fun and lovely and I think jem was really great and I hope you all enjoy it she's also on board for the fridge magnet so um woohoo love jm she can come back anytime um no it was

it was a brilliant episode and um she sent me a meme this morning actually that said this is so relevant to what we talked about in the podcast I I'm just going to read out to you quickly. It says, I don't care if I'm cringe. I'm just a mirror of your internalised shame. How spot on is that? Why didn't she send that to me on Thursday, Monday, whenever it was when I was crying in bed.

Right. People hate me. Right. Oh my God. It's not cringe. It's a mirror of your internalized shame. And I feel like that is a brilliant way to kick off this episode. Fucking A.

Enjoy it, guys. Yeah. We will see you on Thursday for an. Is it just me? my absolute favorite thing was just like watching round the crowd and all like did you see where they were all doing like big like circles and the like giant little like conga lines round the entire floor of the stadium and I was just like this looks so fun I loved the lights which I initially thought were lighters and then was like no it's just a phone torch but like

when you looked across this sea of like torches and it was so beautiful that always makes me really emotion it is emotional isn't it i don't know something about lights just call play did that and they gave us all like a band like a wrist band or something oh i saw that actually on something i think i can't remember was that was that the same tour where they did like a really sustainable tour or something and everyone was like talking about all the different like things that they did it was really good it was a few years ago it was really good when they sang lightful gadget is that when they did it I think I'll guide you home yeah and then they had it for up and up maybe one of the other you know tear jerks tear joke no just in inspiration I love cold I fucking love

gold play I love cold play and I know it's not cool to love them I don't care I don't go I love cold play yeah I really fancy Chris Martin yeah thank you for not leaving me it took me a second I was like yeah yeah I think they get a bad right oh my god so yeah yeah just started I really fancy Chris Martin for a record show he did a modern fact oh never mind

he did I saw that yeah that was really good anyway hi Gemma hello amica do you fancy Chris Martin can't say I've ever thought

of him in that way but you know each to their own start I remember seeing them do a gig and I don't know what it was I never know if a concert or gig I noticed last night

you kept being like the gig and I was like do you mean the concert I don't know which one to use I'm not cool enough to say a gig like at all Is that like a cool thing to say? I think so.

Okay. Does that me, are you just cool? Maybe you're just a bit cool. It comes naturally to. Congrats. But anyway, when they did it, I probably do concerts rather than gigs, don't know. Anyway, he was doing a gig, concert. And, like, working so hard that his t-shirt was just full of sweat.

And I was like, I like that. I do like that. You're really trying, and I like it. He's putting his all into it. He was putting his all into it. Alex loves a tryer. Yeah. It was kudos for that.

Anyway, that was a random way to open the episode. But it wasn't entirely random because we all went to a gig last night, the same gig. And Gemma's got a horse voice because she, well, you've been to loads of gigs, concerts. I did, yeah. Me, who never goes anywhere with the crowd or anywhere, cool, definitely not cool enough for gigs. Yeah, four Harry Stal shows and one, it's so weird when I full name him, he'll be like, yeah, four shows in a week. which was great, loved it. I'm glad you guys were there last night as well.

It was so good. I had such, we had a blast, didn't we? We did. I mean, the alcohol was helping. Yeah, but you're also not supposed to call it a blast. Oh my God. I had such a blast of the glass. I had a blasted.

I had a so old and uncool. I had a great time at the gig. The gig was sick. Like, wow, mate, loved it, sick. I don't know. What do you want from me? I'm not cool, okay. No, it was amazing.

we didn't see you but we got today we're getting like a real styles fix because it's been 24 hours getting it all in it's funny when i text you before and i was like you're gonna be there and you said yeah and then i was like oh it's actually a very big place we probably won't see you i'll try and wave like from somewhere my eyes aren't good enough to wave across that many people and no i'm feeling smug today though because i wasn't drinking last night and everyone else who was there last night is like oh my god i'm so done and i'm like nope i'm done for the week good for you yeah i didn't drink yesterday either And I saw our stories this morning and she were like, I'm really hung over

I was like, ha ha, I didn't realize, I was so young, I didn't realize I was drunk until we got into the taxi and I was sitting backwards and I was like, oh my God, everything is spinning and I think I'm going to be sick and I just couldn't talk, I was like, keep it in, keep it in. We were in with strangers as well and she was staring at her phone trying to get her like Burger King Chits and she just kept being like,

I think I'm going to be sick and everybody's faces in the camera, I'm like, please don't be sick like, who is this random person sitting in the middle. I'm a stranger, please don't be sick of my lap. you know when you're ill like that and you're like you've had too much alcohol and you're like the only thing I just need food to soak it up so I was like Burger King chips anything I'll have anything

I ended up getting vegan nuggets from Burger King and they was so good so good so good this has been a terrible interview so far I think of my god sorry absolutely fine I love chips and Chips for gigs How are you? How are you? I'm good how are you very good thank you and thank you for coming we want we've wanted you we wanted you for ages and now we've got you to be very happy.

So fun. I love doing a good podcast swap as well. It makes me feel like a real podcast. Yeah. I know. I think this is our first podcast swap. It is. Yeah, I don't get invited in many places so.

Oh, well. I don't, can't imagine why, but I'm really excited. I'm excited too. I think it'll be fun. So this is a two-part episode because there's this side on ours and then Al and I will be appearing on Gemma's podcast, The Good Influence.

Tomorrow. Tomorrow. Yeah. I want to ask about your podcast. Sure. Yeah. It's such a lovely thing. Like the good influence.

Like you just... Is it just as simple as that? Like you just want... What was the reasoning behind starting that the podcast and the messaging that it brings? Because it is lovely. I mean, I think the name probably came around as kind of like a play on the fact that like that's essentially what I do now.

In terms of like the influencer thing. So you know when it's kind of... It's one of those things. some people like the word influencer and some people don't but when you kind of get called it a lot and I feel like I was having the conversation of like you know on social media people obviously talk about a lot of different things and like you guys will know this for well you talk about things that have like a decent amount of substance and like you actually get more like diving into conversations but I don't feel like social media is necessarily always the best platform for that

and yeah it kind of just came around as a riff on the whole thing of like well if I I'm going to be an influencer. I want to be like doing something good with it and then all the guests that are coming on of people who I think are like a good influence and all you know I love a pun more than anything else

so really that's where the podcast came brought. No I like it because I feel like influences are so vilified and the just the term itself is so vilified but actually there can be a lot of good and yeah you have to take everything with a pinch of soul and make sure everything you know everything you're consuming is balanced and varied

and whatnot but there is a lot of good that can come from being an influencer so yeah i like that i really like that thanks guys yeah did you sorry i feel like well i'm putting words in your mouth but did you ever want to be an influencer or is that something that you've sort of fallen into and and done something brilliant with no i mean it's very much an accident i mean this is the kind of thing where like i feel like on occasion if people are like trying to be mean to me on the internet they say things that they think are like devastating that they've come up with like you wouldn't even have followers if it wasn't for your brother and I'm like yeah no shit like do you think I'm not aware of that but like it's one

of those things where it just kind of happened and I don't know to me I'm like if I ended up with that platform if you like I just think it would have felt like a real waste to do absolutely nothing with it yeah and you've got two choices right you're giving this platform and then you have two choices like you do nothing with it or you do something with it so like it's really cool yeah i mean i still i'm like i don't feel like i know what i'm doing half the time i'm probably not and this is the thing i know that people who are like big influencers as a career now like there's so much work that goes into like people building audiences and stuff and there's some real like authentic authentic like helpful like great people

on the internet who are doing that work and have done loads of work to build themselves up to that level. So I always feel like a bit like I kind of snuck in and I'm like, oh well I kind of ended up with the beginning of it completely by accident like it wasn't really through anything that I'd done. But yeah, I don't know. I think it's just like trying to make the most of it and do some good with it, you know. Yeah. So we're going to dive into mental health because you have been really open and transparent about your mental health online and you've talked about it openly. But I want to know what that did to your mental health to find yourself suddenly thrust into the spotlight and not in a small way, in quite a big way as well. And then from going

from like hardly any eyes on you to suddenly so many eyes on you. And now you've got, sorry, I know you'll hate talking about this, but you've got like millions of followers now on Instagram. Like that is a lot of people. Do that affect your mental health? It must have done. yeah I think I think it must have done at times like I don't think that there's a way it couldn't have you know but it's quite like looking back on it now because it's been so long but also it was very like that was the time when social media was literally just beginning yeah so like what must have been like 2010 or 11 I think around that which is when like I think Twitter started and then Instagram was like maybe a year or two later so it's all been really really gradual it doesn't feel like such a like overnight kind of thing I've kind of got a bit more used to it now yeah but when I think back to it I think because social media was so new anyway people knew what they were doing less at the time like it wasn't like social media was it wasn't a job like it is now like people didn't have social media jobs

like I think maybe like the YouTube set was up and running and all the rest of it but yeah i think it probably like took me longer to realize how much stuff like that affects you but also like just as me in general and like predating social media or anything like i'm quite a like self-conscious person like i'm not right super confident with things so then trying to get to grips with like putting yourself on the internet and knowing that there are people listening to what you have to say which is an enormous privilege in an of itself which is kind of you know what I was alluding to before of why I have a platform and do nothing with it but yeah getting used to the fact that people would like give a shit

if I said something was like quite strange to have like fame that it isn't your choice necessarily it's something that I've to a much lesser extent had and I think my relationship with it was kind of weird because I don't know I think I actually I don't think anyone's relationship with it is normal but it's it's what you said before about you know what you said about having the choice of doing something with it and it's a really hard choice sometimes because it's like you're you're still trying to grow and live your life and work out who you are as an individual but then you've just got all these people and they just keep coming in and you're like oh my god yeah and they only see a little bit of the picture but they think they know the whole

picture and and it's really odd if because if you go out and you seek it like you you say there's, you know, YouTubers or Instagramers or whatever, who go out and actively work for it, it's not such a surprise when it comes, but people who come through other avenues, it is a bit of a surprise, right? Like that's the kind of like, not discomfort necessarily, but it's like, ooh, hi, I don't know how to feel about this all the time.

And I haven't always felt comfortable with people arriving into my space. I'm just like, I don't know why you're here. Because I know, you know, with the Instagram stuff, I do, people who listen to the podcast I know why they're listening to the podcast but some people who just look at stuff I don't know if I'm making any sense No you are I get it

Yeah but yeah because yeah And I always think What do you want from me But then also you can't ask that Of every single person that arrives in your life Because you never get anything done For asking the question And you know like those

Rolling around the internet There's always like certain people Who you know like will like hate follow you Because they just want to watch you And be like really don't like her Did people do that to you? I don't know I mean, there's always like, there's the people who actually like show up in your inbox

and are kind of like, hi, I hate you, I think you're terrible. But then there's also like, yeah, yeah, they do that. But you're not terrible? Well, you know, thanks. Screw you guys. That's the thing. I mean, this is the thing I've heard people say before. It's like on the internet, the worst things people say about you and the best things people

say about you. Like, you just have to kind of ignore them both. Because some people will be like, oh my God, you're amazing. and I'm like, well, I haven't really done anything to deserve that. And some people will be like, you are vile and you should be ashamed of yourself. And I'm like, why? What did I do?

Where does that come from, though? I just don't understand. But also, you should take the good stuff because you are doing good stuff and you do deserve that. I mean, yeah, I'd much prefer to like, if I'm going to take on one or the other, I'll try and like absorb the good

rather than the bad just for my own sanity. Also, if you're going to take the bad, you definitely have to take the good as well. Yeah. That's something I've learned because I'm like cherry-picked the bad. Yeah. Like if there's like 99 comments, but you're great and there's one being like,

I hate you. I'm like, oh my God. They hate me. That is the thing I'm like really having to like learn and work on. And I've seen like other people on Instagram talking about this and I'm trying to like absorb the message of it. That like some people are just going to decide that they don't like you. And it's actually kind of nothing really to do with you

because from what they see on social media, they like decide who you are and build a picture of you in their head that's like, oh well, obviously she thinks this and clearly that's what she's doing and all the rest of it. And all of it's completely untrue. They've just made it up in their heads.

Like they don't actually know who you are. And if they decide to hate you based on that picture they've created for themselves, like there's actually nothing I can do about that. And I'm trying to just let it go. Yeah, there's a lot of power in that because I always used to want to fight people. If people make assumptions about me based on like my dad predominantly,

because I now feel very straight in who I am and what I do on social media. I'm very like, okay, this is what I do. This is the work that I'm making and creating. But before, when I had less of an idea of what I was doing, when people would make assumptions about me, I would feel so compelled to go and physically fight them. And they're like, like, you know, like you said before, like the most devastating thing someone can say to an influencer was like,

you don't deserve it, you only have it, you're living off someone else's money. And I'd be like, oh, you know, oh, God, let me tell you. And I'd be as good as prinkly off my bank, statement like let me show you and I was like this is such a waste of my energy to like bicker with people that I don't know so there is there is a lot of power in letting people be wrong about you yeah I think that is something that comes a bit more with age though and I guess like for you it's like a lifelong thing as well even rather than I don't know but I mean you've had like 12 where are we told yeah I mean yeah yeah yeah yeah that's as good as

really it's true I've been a long time yeah but yeah it definitely I'm not very good when people are angry at me or don't like me which I mean who it is I suppose but like I yeah you're speaking to the choir we're like

this is a bad podcast review we're like oh Christ which funnily enough is apparently well I know this is the crowd to speak to but it's an ADHD thing apparently it's like a rejection sensitive something or other

and I read about that and I was like oh okay that's why like my brain gets so upset by this stuff like I feel like I'm a horrible person I've done something really badly wrong and it like takes me

I really have to kind of talk myself down to be like let's logic this out because you didn't say that or you didn't do that or yeah it feels like a very visceral physical feeling doesn't it when someone yeah because actually in this conversation

the three of us sitting here we all have ADHD so that's funny sorry I bet's okay I shouldn't have said that I'm like when we've been for dinner before sitting around talking about I was like oh sorry I didn't mind saying it in this I haven't been officially diagnosed by a doctor it's been suggested twice by therapists and it is not an unlikely assumption based on

my personality and I've been making my piece with that over the last few months and we've talked about that and what we three have talked about it we went out for dinner so I don't mind being outed literally every time I do anything on social media everyone's like um your ADHD is showing I'm like okay fair enough yeah you yeah I know I know I know I have to walk myself every morning before work like a Labrador. I can't come in and record without her, she won't talk to me because I just sit along where it's like touching the wall

fidgeting and the words. The microphones have to be like right in front of my face otherwise you can't hear me. Anyway, I forgot what we're going with. Oh, the visceral reaction. Oh, yeah, the rejection. Yeah, it's horrible, isn't it? It's really horrible.

Yeah. And especially on social media, it feels like, I don't know, it feels like heightened in a way because you kind of, you pour your, your heart out online and a lot of like what we put so much into it and it feels like that that quote that says like it feels like someone coming into your house and saying to you like and that's what it feels like it feels like someone's walking down the street and saying to you like you know just shouting at you because half the time when you read it you're in your house so to

you it's happening to you in your own home like in a safe that's supposed to be like safe yeah so yeah i'm very surprised that you get me too unlike comments um troll comments like i'm i'm I'm really surprised that you get because I imagine the people that would follow you would love Harry so that they would come to you and love you too. Yeah, I mean, don't like don't get me wrong. It's not the majority or anything, but it just, it does happen from time to time. Like, and it's usually, it's one of those things I have such a thing about the internet. Like, it's usually if you, I don't know, if something's happening and they don't like

something that you've said about it or not said about it or I don't know. Yeah. right with like world events like current affairs stuff and if you're not talking about them yeah or like really anything it's it's it's quite wild i find like sometimes i read a message and it actually doesn't upset me i'm just like wow you should be a hurdler because that leap was i could not have made that cold standard i always think that you're going to hurt yourself stretching this far yeah yeah it's yeah it's quite amazing the leap that some people will take but it's And I guess, like, it's bound to happen.

Like, you've got that many people and know it's going to happen, so. That's the thing. And I think even if you know it's like a minority of people or, I don't know, I mean, I don't like upsetting anyone. Like, I never do that intentionally. But that it does feel like it's a lot more dramatic

than maybe it is sometimes. Like, I, so before I did any of this online stuff, my last, like, job job where I didn't work myself was I worked for a charity that was a cyberbullying. charity. So I used to deal with this stuff like every day anyway and kind of have people getting in touch with the charity who were like being trolled or bullied online and all the rest of it. So kind of even coming at it from that sort of background, it just takes such an emotional toll on people because even if that isn't what's happening, it feels like it's

everyone who's looking at you and thinking that. And if there's a mean comment on something, if it's like a public comment on an Instagram post or something, you look at it and because in theory anyone could come to that page and look at that comment, it feels like the entire world has seen it. Even if they absolutely haven't. But it's like, yeah, it's like someone, it's like being on a massive stage in front of people,

terrifying anyway, and then having someone walk up to you with a microphone and insult you to your face with a load of people watching. Yeah. That's what it feels like. And it's just like, obviously, you'll say that's horrendous. Yeah.

And it's kind of embarrassing. It is. When I get trolled, I'm like, oh God, how embarrassing. So embarrassing. It's so weird. I get sheepish in front of, like, my friends. And it's stupid. Like, no one cares about me, like, enough to, do you know what I mean?

Like, they don't even know, whatever. But I feel like I get really sheepish around my friends then. I'm like embarrassed. Yeah. Like, they'll have seen that stuff and it is embarrassing. It does feel embarrassing because you're, it's like, because it feels like no one slags off the cool girl. Like, people who are only mean about, like, the losers.

That's how we grew up, right? I know. So then I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm like, oh, right. Loser in school, loser now. Loser in life. I'm going to a concert later and we're going to have a blast. It's off, okay? Oh my God.

This is all said with love. Yeah. Doesn't feel like it from me. You know, she's on the stage right now we've just showed up with her microphone. Just to say mean things to do it. Whatever. It is said with love.

So, we'd love to talk about mental health. what made you decide I mean yeah what made you decide to talk about it publicly because like we said there are a lot of people and that's quite a vulnerable thing to do

especially in a world where there is still and when you I don't know when you first started talking about it I'm trying to think when yeah when I first would have properly spoken about it I mean several years ago but I think to be honest it was probably more when slightly after the fact

when things had got kind of to their worst for me okay and I feel like you kind of well I sort of just got to the point where you're obviously speaking to people and putting things out on the internet and I just

felt too much like I was lying and kind of having to pretend to be someone even if I wasn't because it wasn't that then I would be you know putting post out being like I'm the happiest person in the world, et cetera, et cetera. Not like I would have been pushing, like, a really false narrative, if you like. But I don't know, I just felt like there's definitely been times when it's such an enormous

part of my life that it just felt really disingenuous, not to mention it. Okay. And again, like we were saying before, kind of do some kind of good with the lot that you get in life. it's so isolating when you're struggling with your mental health and you feel like you're the only one and I was like if that if that is something that I can give someone

like even from a selfish point of view as well like being able to do like kind positive like helpful things is actually really good for your own mental health like being nice to other people will make you a happier person This is what trolls need to understand. So yeah, I think it felt quite natural at the time.

I didn't feel like I think I waited, I don't know, however long. I didn't feel like I'd forced myself into it. But I got to a point where I was like, I don't feel like people are going to know who I am. Like one of the things I always take as like the biggest compliment is if I meet someone in real life who like we've followed each other on Instagram for ages and they're like, oh, you're exactly how I thought you would be. Like I always take that as a really big compliment.

because I'm like good because I don't want to be kind of portraying myself as someone that I'm not and yeah that was a big part of it I think yeah I think if I had existed online for much longer and not talked about the fact that I'd have like crippling depression and anxiety I just would have felt like a massive liar have you I mean have you always suffered with depression and anxiety or is it something that happened in recent years or so I think with hindsight I've always been quite an anxious person but kind of in the way it wasn't particularly getting in the way of my life or like that harmful until I think it was like exam seasons at school kind of like GCSE A level especially right but now I look back at it and I'm like okay so those were the things you were doing to try and kind of like self-soothe your anxiety sort of thing so I mean anyone who knows me whatsoever will know that I am not an exercise person I've tried to get into it I have in little dribs and drabs like I know it's really good for you I need to start moving myself

again at some point because it's good for your brain too but when I was doing my A levels I'd got to a point where I would end up going to the gym at like 8.30 9 o'clock at night so that I could get some sort of anxious energy out and like tire myself out so that I would sleep because otherwise I was just so anxious I couldn't sleep and now I look back at that at the time and I'm like how did you not kind of see that's what you were doing but I mean I was young

and also just didn't know anything so yeah I don't know I think looking back it was always there but the depression that had come in more kind of like through my early 20s and it did

I think it had started I mean it definitely started when I was at uni, I'd been doing my, the first course I did at uni, I left after a year and a half and basically dropped out of that course because I was really depressed, which at the time, I think I kind of thought that it was because I wasn't happy on the course that I was doing. But actually now, having been through like a decade of like cycling depressive episodes and ups and downs and all the rest of it. I actually don't know.

I don't know whether I would have maybe stayed and finished that first course that I was doing had I not been really depressed and was just kind of like trying to find a way to fix it, you know? So I think that's one of the things that people still don't really understand about depression all the time. And again, if you've never experienced it,

you think it's, I mean, there is such a thing as like situational depression as in things are happening in your life. that are making you sad and you get depressed that is a thing but that's not the only way that depression kind of manifests itself so i think when i was younger and would get depressed i was still kind of like trying to look at things in my life and like change them and try and fix them and i just couldn't really understand what was happening to me and now that i've got a lot more experience of it and I'm older and I've you know the benefit of hindsight I don't actually know that it was

the situation at all right it's really like quite impossible to say now I think yeah that's so interesting and it's I hate the word empowering because I know I don't hate it but I just feel like it's overused but it is it is empowering to get a diagnosis and to get some perspective on it isn't it and to be able to put it down to something because yeah if you're like I'm changing this, I'm changing that, and I'm still really depressed. Like, I still can't get out of bed, or I'm still, like, just feel like I can't function. Yeah. But that, just having that, I guess, the knowledge is so empowering and kind of just gives you back.

And also, I imagine, like, well, at least for me, but I'm imagining for you as well. Like, gives you some sort of kind of peace as well. Like, there isn't just, there isn't, like, something wrong with me, you know? It's a thing. It's an actual thing. and I'm not alone in this either. Yeah, it's, weirdly, it's almost kind of the opposite in that you want to be like, oh, there's not something wrong with me,

but actually it was more empowering for me to kind of realize there is something wrong with me. Because otherwise, I think it's, well, I certainly did for such a long time to get into the whole thing of like, why is everyone else able to cope with this, well, life? And I'm not able to do it. yeah like there's nothing wrong with me i'm looking around and i should be fine i should be fine and that more makes you feel like you're doing something wrong or you're like ungrateful for your life or yeah yeah you just don't know why you're reacting in certain ways whereas for me

being like no you have a mental health condition right like there actually is something wrong with you and that's why you feel that way yeah i oddly found that quite a lot more comforting rather than it being like, no, there's nothing wrong. You're on a level playing field with everyone else. It's just they're happy and you're not. Definitely, yeah. No, yeah, sorry, that's what... I'm thinking about it with ADHD as well,

because, like, for so long... I don't know why I'm making this about me, sorry. But for so long, I was like, I'm lazy. I just can't function like normal people. I can't take on things like normal people can. Like, I want to lay in bed, and it's just because I'm... lazy like it's sometimes when I can't get a bad a bed like it feels like any depression would

be managed so like I just can't get out of bed so I'm lazy and like having like knowing what it was then you know the ADHD was like huge for me like absolutely huge just to take away the pressure on myself did you feel like that as well yeah I did I think it kind of just made things make sense a lot more and even so something that I've really struggled with and I mean And this is why, so I work with an ambassador for a charity called MQ Mental Health Research. And the reason why I'm so passionate about research into mental health is because one of the most frustrating things that I've found over, God knows how many years, is I don't understand why, like, why does my brain do this to me? Why is this how I feel?

Even though I know that, you know, it's just, it's something I've experienced. It's part of who I am, if you like. Some people don't like to think of it that way, but I don't mind not um not having the why and the reasoning i always find really frustrating yeah so i think yeah having getting an ADHD diagnosis for me part of that has almost made me feel slightly less frustrated with my history of depression and anxiety because it's such a common comorbid condition because the kind of years of like you say having an undiagnosed kind of neurodiverse condition and not just thinking you're like a rubbish person because you're not functioning in the same way that you think other people are and you think you should

be makes you feel really bad about yourself and that 100% then leads into like the low self-esteem and like can fuel depression and all the rest of it so yeah i do think i think it's been helpful but yeah i don't know it's just it's just like it's just a lot to come to terms of like i mean yeah sorry that i've then accidentally harvard did you as well on your own podcast but it's like it's just a lot to deal with which is why then when you meet other people who are like hello i'm also a late diagnosis woman with ADHD you're like oh my god tell me everything have you felt like shit your whole life okay me too yeah i feel like i'm making a lot of peace with

myself now though like I just all the things that like we laugh at me for like not paying my fucking anything in time like I always I just get so many bills and I never pay them in time and I don't know why I could do it I could do it and I just don't do it and I hate myself for it and I said there we go I've said there so many times over the last and it's only been the last like year since my surgery when I haven't been able to exercise exercise I realized it's been a massive coping thing for me like the marathons at ultra and like all of that was like it really kept me like a good use of my energy and I just felt like pretty consistently chill and it's only been since my surgery that and I haven't really been able to exercise like I could before

that I just get so angry with myself and I hate how angry I get with myself because I'm like and it's a rational agro it's not like it's like a full temper tantrum with myself yeah for just being a shit human and it's so annoying like I can't I can't get to the jumpers under my bed because there's too many jumpers in there and every day I'm like I'm going to do something about that. It's been a year, and I've not done it. And about once a month, I'm like, I hate myself. And it's just horrendous.

And I've been trying to explain to my Alex why it means so much that I know what's up now. But I'm like, it means I don't hate myself as much because I'm like, at least it's not totally my fault. Exactly. And that's nice. Like, your brain is wired differently. Yeah. And it's so cool to know that. Yeah.

I just, but I wish, sometimes I'm like, where's the good bit? Where's the good bit? Because, you know, like, there's a flip side to every coin, and I'm like, my jumpers are a mess, but at least my t-shirts are nice, but it's not like that. It's all just messy, and that's the line. But I think the good bit is, like, I guess creativity is quite common in people with ADHD, right? Which I think is why a lot of people, influences, a lot of influences have had, like, late diagnoses as well.

Yeah. Diagnoses as well. But do you find, like, I've mentioned it online, like, a couple times, but I've stopped because of this whole like oh you just jumped on the bandwagon thing has that been a thing for you have you felt that well so i actually hadn't mentioned it online at all yet yeah yeah and then so i'd happen to an episode of my podcast that came up this morning i like mention it briefly in the episode and that's like the first like public iteration of like me talking like yeah exactly soft launching my but yeah no i 100% like that is a thing about social media then is really worrying and like even

when I've like spoken to the psychiatrist like about ADD I'm like I feel like somehow I'm lying and I've tricked you yeah and I actually am just really lazy and terrible and he's like please stop he was like this is really common but I think the social media thing fuels into that as well because people like to be like oh okay fine you're just doing what are you doing this for like I think that's why I've never mentioned it I haven't mentioned it's my parents I haven't talked about it with anyone And apart from Alex and you, probably. Well, I mean, and all the Instagram followers to DM me about 200 times a day saying,

ha-ha, you're idiotity show. But, yeah, I'd never bring it up. I mean, my sister won't play bobble with me or do anything with me because she's just like, you're a fucking nightmare. So she's been saying it forever. But it's that weird thing where I'm just like, I probably don't, I'll just leave it.

So I haven't pursued it. That's why I've not pursued it because that's why I've never talked about it on the internet because I'm just like, I'll just leave it. It's no biggie. Yeah, it's just a bit scary. But it is, isn't it? And it's like, I said the same.

thing to my psychiatrist. I was like, I feel like I'm a fraud. I really do. Like I, I really do. And he was like, well, then what does that make me? Because I've diagnosed you. Like, what does that make me? And I was like, yeah, fair point. But I, and I was actually talking to Dave about this. And I was like, I just don't want to mention it to anyone because I don't want people think I'm like jumping out of the wagon, whatever. And he's like, why do you care? He was like, this has been one of the, this has been one of the biggest revelations in your life. And this has been one of the, one of the things that's helped you mentally more than anything else and it's really changed your life so why the hell do you care like jump on the wagon

be on the wagon the wagon's great i love the wagon i'm like yeah you're so right i've been saying it's the ages the wagon's the best place to be like why like we's where do we say this i mean we're talking about this last night actually at the concert because you're quite your your music taste is quite alternative and i was like i just can't be fucked to be alternative anymore because it's just too much effort you've to like work out what everybody likes and then you've to find out what it is that people like that other people like it's so much easier to just like the music in the charts and just wear what other people are wearing

because it's available in the shops and just like the bad wagon it's just so much easier to just follow the trends be a little sheep just hop on I am honestly I'm like it's like the 1950s and I'm just jumping on the back of the bath every single time I'm like yeah

fine I'm coming take me with you literally any trend I'm such a sucker for them I'm just lazy there you go I'll just go with the easiest option available and that's like hot hits UK sold but it does annoy me that narrative of the bandwagon with the ADHD thing because I'm like there are probably probably so many women out there

who desperately need the diagnosis like desperately need it and are a bit like oh well it seems everyone has it now so like maybe you know I'm just relating to these TikToks but I'm not really and it's like it's yeah that's the thing there's something so embarrassing about being like oh I got served loads of like Instagram Reels content about adult women with ADHD and I started thinking hmm maybe I have that and then actually but I mean I'd like sat on that for probably like a solid year before I even then made a GP appointment you know when you're like doing a sneaky Google about

something and literally checking every box and you're like no because I saw it on the internet so that can't be true like how ridiculous would that be if I accidentally diagnosed myself with a mental something through like a TikTok content that someone's repurpose for Instagram I'm like, what a weird, weird story to tell. But then, yeah, I finally, like, psyched myself up and made a GP appointment. And literally, I said it to my boyfriend. I was like, I just want to do that

because then they'll tell me that I'm being ridiculous and I can let go of the thought of it then and not keep wondering. And actually, the GP that I spoke to was like, okay, I'm going to refer you. And I was like, oh my God. Oh, my God, maybe this is true. Instagram Real was right.

I was like, are you serious? Yeah, see, I haven't got to that stage yet. I had one therapist to tell me, like, in 2018, she's like, you've ever been diagnosed with ADHD? Because you should have a lot of the symptoms, and I was like, traits, whatever. And I was like, you're a terrible therapist, goodbye. And I never went back to her.

And I got home to my mom, and I was like, she said, I don't think she had to start me at all. And then it was only, like, three years later and someone else had said it. I was like, but what's interesting is I think yours presents in like a more typical way, like, more in the, like, the typical, like, the typical, like, I'm quite surprised by that, like, yeah.

Yeah. In the more like boys, little boys running around, like concert still kind of way. But I also feel like I've grown into, this is what's really weird. And I probably should go and explore this, but I don't, I feel like this part of me is like coming out a lot more as I've got older. My brother and sisters said they were reminded them of Leslie from Parks and Rec the other day. And I was like, for fuck, same, turn the dozen, sad little sympathetic laugh. I love that. I love Leslie also.

And everyone loves her. I know, but she's also, you know, she's a lot. And I was like, why do you, why do I remind you that? And they were just like, I don't know, it's very chaotic. And I was like, oh, maybe everyone could see this in me, apart from me. I think it's just a lot of energy. It's a lot of energy, yeah. Which I'm always just jealous of more than anything else.

I don't have that side of it. Yeah. I've just got the like, I'm a lazy shit human being side of it. I wish I had the, like, let's go for a run. But I have that, and I'm still a lazy shit with all the stuff that matters. Like, I can't tell you how many things I have to do. I can't. It actually upsets me so much

when I look at my lists and my bills and all the post is red and I'm just like, oh God. So this, I always find this interesting because this has been one of like the biggest revelations for me about like why I am the way I am. Do you have the thing where like if you've got one thing in your calendar for the day?

So like today like going to meet you 2pm setting the scene. For me then the whole day is gone. That's the whole day. Yeah. Because like the whole morning is like, okay, I've got this thing to do two o'clock. Yeah. And then I've built it up so much that like when this is done, I'm going

to be like, wow, the day's over now. And like one thing in the calendar like occupies my brain for the entirety of that day. And I physically don't understand how people are like, well, I'm going to do this in the morning. And then, you know, I've got obviously work. And then I'm going to go out afterwards and do this. And then I'm going to go to the gym. And then I'm going to do this and do that. And I'm like, that's so many things in one day. Like, how do you do that many things? I think you kind of get in the in the swing of doing busy things I feel like I used to be like that

I did as well physically couldn't cope and also like if I had something on my mind I couldn't think about anything else like actually physically couldn't cope like I remember when I broke up with my boyfriend and like other people like want to go to work as a distraction and I was like

I can't think about or do anything else like I'm very like one-trap mind in that way but I feel like with the busy thing I've had to, I know exactly what you mean, but I've had to, like, get over that now. But I think I cope with that by writing, like, everything, a list of the night, like, the day, the night before the next day, I literally, I'm like, I write down Monday and then I've got to do this at nine and da-da-da-da, and that helps me then. Does that make you want to be sick? Because that makes me want to be sick. I, I kind of try and do that and kind of write. So my thing is to try and make myself feel more organised and like I'm not going to forget things because I do end up forgetting things.

Yeah. I make the to-do list but then I never look at the to-do list ever again and then I just make a new to-do list and then by that time I forgot half the stuff that was like on the old list you are my people but like I'm genuinely really trying and like I make the list and I want to tick it all off I just forget to look at the list ever again yeah I do I just found a list of things to pack for my wedding that I left in my house this is like with them exactly this is like with natural cycles I'm like since I stopped since I got the coil out my period's been all over the place I'm like

I want to get on track with it and you have to take your temperature every morning and you were like, leave it by your bed and I'm like, yeah, but you won't remember. I won't look at my, I remember it. You'll look at it and see it and be like, and it won't register. And it won't register.

And I was like, well set the alarm and say, take your temperature, I'm like, I will see it and I just won't register. I will see it, snooze the alarm and then that's it, done, it's gone off my brain, I just won't do it, yeah. I'm on thin ice because I forgot to take my temperature this morning,

however, every other day that that's a practice thing, that I just really got into it and then every time I'm like that's your high five I'm like hell yeah it takes 21 days to form a habit yeah good luck to us all

I couldn't do it for 21 days I wouldn't remember I think that got debunked recently I held on that when I gave up oh well that explains a lot when I was giving up smoking I held onto that with both hands I was like 21 days maybe it's psychosomatic

or 21 days to make a habit but it's a lot longer to break anyway fine anyway Interesting. Interesting. I still get drunk and have a cigarette, so I don't know if I'm not to talk to about that. So back to, sorry, we got sidetracked. Back to your mental health. With your depression and your anxiety, what do you think, what do you think has helped you? What has contributed to making you feel mentally healthier and in a better place?

I think that's honestly a hard one to answer. Like the things that I have done over the years are like I've tried lots of different medications and things I have eventually I saw a therapist which was great but I actually I mean I haven't been on

like antidepressants or anything for quite a few years now but then even when I have had like quite bad depressive episodes again I mean this is a funny one I keep then like coming back to the ADHD thing because it's quite it's helped me understand it a bit more like even when I'd been on antidepressants I still

I've and this is the thing that then again is frustrating because I've had so many conversations like with um doctors and like my therapist kind of saying I feel like medication has helped me to a certain extent like it's definitely like done me some good I needed it glad I took it but I still just feel like there's something wrong like it's not doing what I thought it should do. Not that I, you know, think antidepressants should make you have like metaphorical like rainbow sunglasses and just think everything's amazing all the time. But it just felt like something was missing. So I kind of have done without that and have been okay without that for the past few years. I think it's a lot of what has helped is kind of accepting

it a little bit more and just kind of getting to know I don't know kind of not blaming myself so much for it yeah has been quite a big thing I think yeah can I just like leap back from just thinking with with when you were working in your normal job was your mental health bad then when you were working in the sort of cyberbullying really bad really really bad like that's that's the worst yeah it ever was so do you think it's got better since you've like worked for yourself and done Instagram and sort of like changed your life. Yeah, I mean it's still it's still been up and down to be honest but that is again one of the like big privileges of being able to work in that kind of job

is I can like set my own schedule if you know what I mean and like and also I work with people who are really understanding about mental health and I'll be like like comfortably be very open with them so if I'm feeling really anxious and I've got like too many things scheduled for the same week I can kind of just say that or yeah if I'm just feeling really down and need to not I don't know talk about something or I need to reschedule something I am lucky to work with people who are great in that regard

and also I think because I've been talking about mental health online for like quite a long time now people kind of know this about me already so it's not having to like rehash from the beginning a conversation every single time whereas at the beginning you have to be like okay

I'm struggling with this because X, Y and Z and it's like having to let someone into like such a personal part of your life but yeah I do you think like once you start talking about mental health with people it does get easier one because you've got the practice at it

but two just because people already know and have an idea so it's not like you have to spring it on someone it's where if I say to someone oh I'm feeling really anxious about something they're not surprised now so like that takes away one kind of hurdle to it yeah but yeah it's I mean yeah I think like anything it's kind of upsides and downsides to working for yourself so yeah I'm not like the absolute most organized person in the world I'm not the best like self-starter I need deadlines to like make me do things, which yeah, doesn't always lend itself that well.

But equally, I think it's a lot easier to kind of try and practice the sort of like mindfulness and like prioritising your own wellness in a day when you are like in control of the hours that you're doing that day. And also on the point about talking to people as well, it's like I don't think we realise because there is still stigma around mental health, I don't think, we know to the full extent of how pervasive mental health problems are and it's likely that whoever you talk to is will have had if they don't currently have had some experience with mental health problems but I'm wondering how and don't you don't have to answer this if you're not

comfortable doing so but I'm wondering how with your boyfriend how has it has it impacted your relationship has he been understanding and supportive and again you don't have to answer so you don't want to but yeah no yeah I mean he's great love him to bits um it is yeah it it definitely does impact relationships that's the thing and like he's great and is really supportive but at the same time I I think because I've I don't know because I talk about mental health and also because I've been to therapy I'm also like one of those people who goes to therapy and is like oh my god everyone should go to therapy it's so good but I'm like I'm not super sure I mean obviously we've been together for a long time and I would trust him

anyway but I'm not really like shy about talking about my feelings anymore yeah so I think it's easier in that way because if I am feeling really down or I'm you know I'm feeling something he doesn't really have to kind of like dig it out of me like I'll just I'll just say so then it's obviously easier to like support each other when you know what's going on with someone yeah because that that is the difficult thing as well if you're trying to like come to terms with your own mental health struggles but also trying to you don't even have the words yet to articulate it so trying to like explain to people in your life around you what's going on with you you don't even really know what's going on with you so that yeah I'm

lucky like it's a long relationship so like he's had these years of me like that one January where I spent the entirety of January under a blanket on the sofa watching gross anatomy. Like I think I what I mean there's a lot of seasons of gross anatomy. I think I watched like 12 seasons in a month. Wow. Because that's literally just what I did from dusk till dawn because I was horrifically depressed and couldn't do anything else. But yeah that is odd behaviour to deal with from you know someone that you live with but he doesn't make me feel like a weirdo when I just need to like yeah. But also tries to make me go for walks and things which is helpful. How does that go? Not always great.

He gets up earlier than I do. He's like, come on, let's go for a walk. It'll be good. And I'm like, mm, go away. But sometimes I do go, and it always is a good thing to do. And then I'm so annoyed that it was a good thing to do. I just look me so smug right now. I hate when people try and make me go for a walk.

I hate that. I love a walk. I go every morning, 7.30. Just love a walk. 6.30 in the winter, because you've... You have a dog, though, which I think, I think that would make me get up. I hate going for a walk. I hate it.

I'm annoyed that I just told it the wrong way around. 30 in the summer, 7.30 in the winter. I just felt like I was lying. Why would I walk in the dark? It was just stupid. It was really annoying me that I just lied. Yeah, the dog helps. I actually can't see the point of walking without a dog, to be fair.

But I just love walking. I just think it's the best thing in the world. I just, if I could be sponsored by walks, that's all I'd need. Do you know what? I like walks. Yeah. But I like going for a proper walk. Go for a proper walk.

But I'm from the countryside. So for me, I'm like, I'm like, want to go for like an hour or two's walk in a field. I want to see some cows. I want to do like a proper walk. I can take you on a proper walk. I have a proper road around the streets of London at 7.30 in the morning. I can show you horses on this walk. Proper walk. All right. You show me some good walk. I will. Stanley Collier's Wood. It's a good walk. I wish I liked that. I get so bored on walks. I'm not going to tell you how long it is if I won't use you. No, I'm not going. It's a good long walk. No, I like a proper long walk. Right, fine. Me and I'm going to

like walking around my neighbourhood for the fourth time that week I'm like this just couldn't be less fun to me oh see I go around the common every day I just I just fucking lived for it I'm like go visit the ducks they've been growing I missed them whilst I was away I mean that's cute yeah the little ducklings yeah and I see like the same dog like parsnit one of birds friends like see him on the regs there's a little like little dog called max he's come from cypress and it's like you know in Notting Hill that's seen where it goes from like the year that she's away and it says plays ain't no sunshine when she's gone and you see everything change that's like my life is just like every my like hours walk in the morning is that and I just get to like I watch people

get pregnant watch them like bring their dogs the dogs get less nervous it's just a joy the ducklings are born then they migrate away it's a fucking it's a blessing guy I mean if there's like if there's like a walking PR council they really need to like literally oh my god I know oh no I'm going to like the national trust it's so full of joy you just love life don't you I really do you said this yesterday I'm so happy for you I'm sitting here talking about my depression and you're like, I fucking love life I'm sorry

if it's any conversation I hate myself I just love life I mean we were saying this yesterday about like drinking to like escape reality I was like I just kind of like reality and you just looked so disappointed at me you were just like oh fuck's sake I mean well thanks thanks for airing that

I drink to escape my life you do we were talking about we were talking about it in another context that can probably be removed um that i really like what you do with instagram and i think it would have been really easy for you to um have to just change gear so quickly i can hear my own voice like ha ha ha anyway um i've got silly um but it would have been really easy for you to just go and do like this sort of like traditional influencer like whatever you could like you could just be in dubai living the life of Riley if you wanted with like whatever but it really feels like you've taken what you've been given and been like I'm going to do something actively good with this like I'm going

to make a good choice with it and it feels like it's really lovely to look at it and just be like like this is someone doing something really lovely just because you can't like it doesn't feel like there's an agenda it's just like we're going to like save the planet be nice to each other and wear cool sunglasses I'm like fucking hey yeah I can get up on with this also love your sunglasses love love love love they're so cute I'm like they're so cute they're so cute that was a weird word I'm trying to be cool

I was just going to say dashing and then I was like what else can I say no kidding April what can she say what's a cool word yeah what's a cool word for like April's a cool this person I know even though she's wearing crooks right now like your sunglasses are only cool people wear crocs I know

Pang oh my god okay forget that what's cool it's cool sick? They're sick? I think this is the problem I think. If we hear too much about the right cool word for call, it's just not cool. No.

They're, they're lovely. They're lovely. They're just lovely. Shall I say what I think is the coolest thing of people who don't try and be cool? I agree. Yeah, okay, there you go. So it's not. That's a little. I've just given up.

Like, I'm not a cool person. I'm like a bit boring and quite not. normal and just not very cool. And the more okay I get with that, the more happy I am with my own down. I've got 100%. But I find that cool. I find that cool.

I find it cool to be like who you actually are. Yeah. You know? That's a Matt Hayquot. And it's like don't, and I'm going to butcher it, but it's like don't gravitate towards like the cool people because like you'll be cool when you're dead. Gravitate towards the warm people because that's where life is.

It's like that's so nice. I spent so long trying to be cool. And you know what? probably achieved it for like a good few years there and I wore a lot of eyeliner and elasticated belts and I was kind of mean to people I was a bit of a bitch because I thought it would make me cooler yeah and how sad and I was so unhappy in myself I like hit my music taste my emo stuff because I was like I knew that wasn't cool oh no I was a full on baby emma too pretended to like house and like oh no I don't know techno drum and bass for ages and actually no I don't

like it. I like emo music. I had a song. I had a boyfriend at school. I said, have you heard the song? And I was like, yeah. Got it on my phone. Love it. Never heard it. Then I downloaded it. It sounded so bad coming up my Motorola. I was like, oh, I hate this song. And I had to pretend I liked it for ages. My iPod just filled the music I didn't like. And I remember my brother put him on Blast, had a Taylor Swift song on his, on his iPod, and it was like, ha ha. It's like, why am I doing this? I love that song. And I was so mean to it. And now here you are like, Betty Bandwagon like come on everyone I know and he loved Coldplay as well and I always give

him such a hard time I was like that is so lame like no one likes corplay now I'm like so I'm going to a call play gig yeah I mean you had girls allowed on the car on the way here I did yeah when I'm sad like when I get sad because sometimes I get like quite irrationally hysterically sad for no reason doesn't last long but it's just I'll have like a spiral and then I just pick myself up and the way the brilliant way to pick myself up normally is to go for a walk but I made a playlist so I'll share it with the group for when I had my surgery done

on my last one when I was awake for and I had to listen to well I made it it's a very good playlist it was a big like 2005 to 2008 we're saying Timberland Girls Aloud Sugar Bades

it was it's so good it's honestly it's so uncool and I'm sitting in my car and it was 303 to remember Starstruck I was singing that full volume today as I was like going down the street again I was like ha your playlist would actively negatively impact my mood I think

but I wouldn't have listened to all of that before because it wasn't very cool and now it's the vibe what music do you like kind of I mean I listen I don't listen to a lot of chart music I'd say you like cool music yeah but I just think what what most people like at the moment is yeah like a lot of maybe more kind of like dance music and that to me like dance music makes my brain feel itchy like I can't physically stand it. Yeah, it's a lot. Something sensory-wise, yeah, I hate it.

Maybe it's a sensory thing. It's just way too much. It's a Rationly annoyed. Like, there's a Lizzo song that everyone loves at the moment and I've got real beef with it. I don't know. I mean, it's a great song. The one that, about damn time.

Oh yeah, no, I quite like that one. It's a great song. But it really gets on a nerves. But yeah, if it just gets you, it just gets you. But yeah, no, I like, I listen to a lot of like old music. Like 70s, 80s, okay. Do you like Stevie Nix? You don't like you might like Stevie Nix?

yeah I really get that five yeah I feel like that but I also the best songs ever yeah amazing I also was such a like teenage baby emo I'll still like

crack the death cab out when I want to really feel like myself oh good okay okay so you didn't quite grow up of it no not at all yeah I still just listen to like all the same music and then I mean and then some pop music I do really like because it's pop

because it's popular and it's popular because people like it I'm a person I like some of it too yeah exactly bandwagon Gemma please it says you'll stop it's not a bandwagon it's a party bus oh my god that's the best thing it did you just make that up it's so good that's going on a fresh pack there

that is you have to like make that into a quote like camber that up and put that on your instagram ever heard because that is so good it's not a bandwagon it's a party bus I don't think you've realised the actually genius that you've just come out with unbelievable I've literally never been hyped up this much in my entire life it's so good pieces, we're like, oh, this is so inspiring.

Oh, I love that. I think that's the name of the episode. Yes, it's not bad. It's a party bus. Oh my God, it is to being really uncool. I fucking love a party bus. I haven't at my hand do, didn't we? Yeah, it was a big thing.

I'll get, yeah, we'll get another. Love that. We'll get another, we'll go for a walk with it. We'll do a big, like, mental health party buzz. Yeah, PhD party buzz. Everyone's on the bandwagon. We'll be like, come on. I'll be running alongside it.

Gemma, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. We'll put the link to your podcast. in the show notes and yeah thank you so much for coming on and for chatting with us it's been brilliant so nice and we've done it in RIL in real life and it's been wonderful I'll stop it guys have you had a glass I'm obsessed with you today else I really am I think you should stop trying I think I should just stop talking actually you finish the episode

no you're doing great carry on thank you guys Thank you. Jennifer, thank you so much for talking to us. We love your loads. Please come back. Thanks. Bye. Thank you.

Bye. Instagram account and should I delete that as part of the ACAS creator network.