Should I Delete That? - Get Divorced, Be Happy with Helen Thorn

Episode Date: May 19, 2024

This week on the podcast, Em and Alex are joined by Scummy Mummy Helen Thorn! Helen had been with her husband for over twenty years when out of the blue, she discovered he'd been having an affair. It was at the start of the pandemic when her life was thrown into chaos and she began her life as a single parent. Helen shares how she harnessed the earth-shattering news to carve out a better life for herself.You can follow Helen on Instagram @itsmehelenthornPurchase tickets here for our first ever ✨LIVE TOUR!!✨Follow us on Instagram @shouldideletethatEmail us at [e-mail] by Daisy GrantMusic by Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Before I found out my husband was having an affair, my whole life kind of got split into a million pieces. I remember hugging him very tightly and going, oh, I never want to get divorce. It just felt like if I could love him as hard as possible and if I could do everything to make things happy, we would be together forever. Hello and welcome back to Should I Delete That? I'm Alex Light. I'm M Clarkson and you are listening to a GBA where they mean. missed? I don't care. They're back. They're back. We're back. That should be our good, right? But it's not. I said, I need another good. I think it's my bad and my awkward, to be honest with you.

Am I good. Okay, actually, can we tell them the good? Can we tell them, like, the really good? Pod news. Or is it a secret? It's not a secret, but okay, that's going to be your good. It's also my good, but half of my other good. What could you possibly have done this better than what we did yesterday? Hang on, hang on, because my other good, I've got two goods. The, the, the is that one we'll get to it but my other good is we are going on tour this week oh my god it's this i feel like i'm going into an exam and i haven't done my homework but like a funny like a drama improv i can't tell you how many dreams i'm having where like you just let you like you you leave me before we go on stage or like i can't get in touch with you the day that we are on

stage and we just have to like meet on the stage and i'm like basically i think i'm freaking out a bit but so we start well it's not really this week because we're recording this a little bit like a couple days in advance, but by the time listeners are listening, it's this week and on Thursday, we're playing in London. Playing? Play what? Fucking banjo? Playing. We're playing.

What do we say? How'd you say it? We are... Performing. That's even worse than playing. We are speaking. Oh, I don't know. We are at... We're in London. Okay, fine, we're in London on Thursday. And then on Monday, a week today,

it properly kicks off. No. We're in Manchester. I've never even been to Manchester. And now look at me. Yes, you have. Apart from that one time I went with you, which I'd forgotten about. Oh yeah. Oh yeah, we went together. That was the one time I've been to Manchester. The only time I've been to Manchester. I completely forgot about that. Birmingham, on the other hand. Love Birmingham. See, I've only been to Birmingham for like half an hour. I've been to Birmingham loads. Love Birmingham Airport. Love the Bullring. They used to have a crispy cream stand in the ball ring. Maybe they still do. And that was just peak. I just loved it. Let's go. Let's go. Oh, and we're going to, we're going to Bristol, Southampton.

I've never been to Southampton. No, me neither. Never been to Bristol. Someone sent me a pistachio ice cream place in Bristol. They said it's unbelievable. So we've got to go there. There's a whole shot just for pistachio ice cream. Oh, no, no, no.

They've got like loads of different styles of ice cream. And I'm not coming. Yeah. If other ones are available. No, it's just, it's like one of the, yeah, so we've got to go there. Okay, yeah. But there are still some. tickets left. I know, which is kind of

tragic but also kind of great if you guys want to come. Yeah, if you still want to come. Come, please come. It's going to be great. But I tell you what I hate is how I appear in your panic. Like, it's not a flattering depiction of myself. Like, every

time you're, like, panicking about something, I'm always the absolute worst. It's always like Em didn't show up. Em didn't answer the phone. Em was doing this. It's never like, you know, of it. They're taking any responsibility.

Couldn't be you fucking up, didn't it? No, it's not with me. I am not self-aware enough for that, look, I don't do enough like introspection for that, okay? I have to put it on everyone else, that's why. It's not about you, it's about me. Fair enough.

Okay, guys, the other good, the other good, it hasn't happened yet. It's probably going to be our good for the next few weeks is we're growing up. Like, we've done something a bit probably invasive. We've just been unbelievable. Yeah, we've just something really cool.

We've got a studio. We've got our own studio. If you haven't noticed from the visuals, we have been studio hopping. We've been studio whoring for a good few years now. And it is expensive and stressful. And we've just decided we can't. We're not doing that anymore.

Should I delete that? It's going to have a home. A real proper home in London. And actually, looking back, it possibly was a bit impulsive. because the place we saw, which was the second place we saw, we just went for straight away.

The first one of yesterday's took, yeah, we cancelled all the other feelings, we were like, sold, we literally left. We had five to see, and we saw one. But it's, when you know, you know, you know. Like, look at me. When you know you know or. No, I married literally my first boyfriend.

When you marry, when you know, you know, you know. Well, look, I think we knew. I got the first dog I saw. I've kept the first baby I made. Good one. trust my impulses um we've got a home we've got an actual home and the best part of it is got there's a ping pong table i know that is the best 100% like that's what's weighed it for us we were like really kind of like oh this looks amazing and then the lady was like and here's the

games room we were like sold take my money and there's a hot tap there's a tap that has hot boiling water on demand no need for a kettle my favorite thing about the whole thing was when we were leaving. Al was like really singing the building's praises to me and she was like and it's got the games and then she's like and it's got the kitchen so we don't need to go out and buy lunch we can just cook it I was like Alex fucking light you are so full of it what are we going to cook you weren't cooking your own kitchen in the comfort of your own home with all those groceries and you're telling me that we're going to cook at a communal kitchen instead of going to the prep that's around the corner or the cafe that's in the

building I don't think so I see straight through you Yeah, but let me have good intentions No, because I know what you'll do You'll go and you'll cook something fishy And then no one will want to talk to us Probably Oh yeah I'm like oh my first day

Salmon And we'll be complained about I kicked out Exactly Okay fine Pratt it is But this is really cool This is really fucking cool

It's the goodness We've got our home SIDT has an address I know Well not yet We're not in yet We're getting in, we're getting in like two weeks We're getting carried away

I don't know why we've decided to do this now Pod tour, pod studio It's growth It's cool We're just throwing ourselves in at the defend I like it Yeah, pod rebrand Scrap the rebrand

Yeah, yeah Don't want to talk about that Maybe that's the awkward Feel stressed Because we put a post up on Instagram Yeah I think that's probably my awkward We've put post up on Instagram

and saying that you know We heard you and we're going back to it And then people are like Oh no, but I like you looking about your kids. I like the current affairs. I'm like, no, no, no, no. Someone's actually messaged me. She's kind of a friend, kind of not a friend, an acquaintance, I'd say. And being like, I listened to your episode, but I really liked how it was going. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Al, that's like telling someone that, when they've cut their fringe

that you preferred it before. I loved the mum chat. I love the mum chat. That was two separate messages. I didn't just repeat myself. Both of you have entered a new stage of life and being a mum can be so all-consuming you can't be expected to hide a huge part of your lives tough we're gonna do it anyway love today's pod but also seeming me an unpopular opinion but i don't mind you talking about your kids it's part of your lives in capitals another one in capitals i love the kids chat and mum chats even though i am a fucking uni student and no relevance at all i just love hearing about your bubba's and life and just hearing you two laugh makes me so happy oh man i love you okay okay another one i loved the mum chat stop it but was very much missing gba so please that's back but

don't feel you need to hide the huge parts of your life that are your babies. Oh, should we get them at the bin? I, too, love the mum chat, but I appreciate it's not for everyone. Al, the bin man came this morning. They were here about quarter to six. It's too late. She's gone. She's gone.

Oh my God. She's toast. I love the mum chat. I find it also relatable. Love the mum chat and topical is it just means, but happy to have GBA back. Don't get rid of the mum chat and pass the baby stage, but I love it. Maybe a compromise is some mum chat. I'll tell you what we'll do, Al.

Oh, let's put a trigger warning in for mum chat, shall we? Yeah, and people can just skip it and we'll put a timestamp when they can come back. I'm child free by choice, but I love hearing the mum chat. Don't take it away. Maybe just commit less time to it. It's a compromise. Okay, I like a compromise. Also, I don't know what to do with myself anymore.

I am very lost. I'm very unsure of who I am as a person, and this is really sending me spiraling a tiny, tiny bit. So, okay. Have Tommy. I'm stressed. Don't. I haven't made up my mind. yeah, whether I want to talk about it or not.

Our bins haven't been taken out yet, so I've still got a little bit of time. Do you have anything bad? I do. Oh, good. Seven members of my family, immediate family. That's all with them. Yeah. Four of my family have chucked their guts up and shat their guts out for the past four days because they've got the norovirus.

And I know it's coming for me. I know my time is up. My hours are numbered. Right. and I can feel it I can feel it it's on the horizon I think it's so useful at times

at this that you're not a very close family you know that you just barely see them do you know what that's exactly what Dave said Dave said you should take this as a sign that you spend too much time with your family and I was like yes I hear you you should also have spent less time with me because you said on Tuesday

oh no mom and Ellie have got the neurovirus and blah blah anyway see you tomorrow morning oh no no hang on hang on let me just say that again oh no mom and Ellie have got the neurovirus and we all went out for a big family lunch yesterday. I can't wait to see you in the morning. I wait with bated breath.

Enjoy that. As an adopted sister, I seem to get all the perks. I just, I can't, I can't bear it. I can't bear it. It's the absolute worst. I just had it as well. If I have it again, I'm going to be absolutely raging.

We had it in Jamaica, didn't you? I didn't go to Jamaica, but I did have it. I'd love to go to Jamaica. I go to Jamaica. Me too, should we go? Sold. Do you think anyone listens in Jamaica? No.

No. Probably not. Probably not. We could probably find out, actually, but I doubt it. Yeah, I agree. You don't have a bad? I have one bad. Well, but it's related to, I mean, she's gone now, so it won't happen again, but I just, I don't know what's going on with me.

I think I'm a bit stressed. I think maybe it was like our incredibly impulsive day yesterday in the fact that we're going on tour and, you know, we don't know who we are anymore because we keep reformating our entire lives and I've been on the phone to the police, all the time, which had been, can I just say, again, I know I mentioned it, and is it just means I said, this isn't my bad. They've been amazing, Al. I have been run every single day since I filed my report. From welfare supporters, from officers, like, just really lovely support. Anyway, I think I've just been a bit stressed. And last night, I thought, Alex, I think,

I think he might divorce me. I haven't actually spoken to him this morning. I woke him up, like, four times because I was absolutely convinced that Arlo was, like, in the bed, falling out the bed like she was nowhere to be she wasn't here but i woke him up like four times and he was like are you fucking kidding me but it's like you know when you have those dreams that are just like so vivid so vivid and you're like awake but you're not awake it's it's a horribly and this is sorry like after we just said we're not going to talk about mom and stuff anymore but it's such a specific thing that i've only really had since motherhood where the anxiety of having a baby in the bed it's like the most anxiety yeah anxiety i've ever had anyway

So I had a shit's night's sleep. I gave my husband a shit as night's sleep and that's the end of that. Do you know what? That's a real shame if you were to get a divorce. But... But I could at least be happier than I was when I was married.

You would be happier. At least according to our guest this week, Helen Thorne, who I am Sirb Sestford. She is one half of the scummy mummies. And she wrote a book called Get Divorced be happy. This came on the back of her own divorce. In 2020, she found out that her husband of

22 years had been having an affair. And she's spoken about this so candidly and I'm so obsessed with her. It was such a good episode. I mean, we both wanted a divorce by the end of it. Yeah, how's Dave? Who? But seriously, so cool. And I think it's, I think it's really interesting for anyone to listen to, not just people who are married and going through a divorce or like thinking you're going through a divorce, but anyone who's like thinking of breaking up with their partner or is going through a breakup. I just thought it was like really stellar advice and yeah, fab episode. We really hope you enjoy it. Also, you can listen to it as we did in relatively happy marriages. It will ruin them, but yes, go for it. No doubt. Enjoy. All right, guys, it feels

good to do that. It really does. I've missed this. I've missed this. Me too. Me too. We love you loads. Enjoy Helen. Bye guys. Hello, Helen. Hello. Thank you so much for coming. Joy and a pleasure. I think you said a joy and a pleasure. So, I was so much to talk to you about, I want to talk to about everything. I want to talk to you about being one of the scummy mummies. I want to talk to you about your book. I want to talk to you about the fact that you just ran the marathon, which marathon? Two in a week. Two in a week. What a show off? What, I mean, there's a achieving and then there's and then there's what you do just a little bit attention-seeking I think as you should yep fine okay like how you feeling great oh yeah strangely okay

like Boston was a really hard marathon it was very hilly and then doing the hard one first was probably good because then London was like oh this is this is fine it's flat and also I don't even feel like like London you just got cat I mean you probably just you just carried through it's lovely it's unreal Boston's a different beast Because you run, you're 42K out of Boston and you run through like towns of Massachusetts and then pass like Ivy League universities. But it was hot and really hilly. And so it was a harder, harder run.

And also I wasn't familiar. Like I love the thing because it was the third time I'd done London. So I sort of knew the bits that were coming. I'm like, oh, awesome. Isle of Dogs. You know, they'll be smoking. They'll be having barbecues. Yeah.

It'll be raucous. A lot of weed down there. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. As I was running, I was like, this can't be good for me. No, save it to laughter. No, it was joyous and you couldn't have been better that day. 13 degrees, perfect.

It was such a good day. It was such a good day. I fucking loved it. I just wanted to stop and hug everyone. Everyone was just in a great mood. Everyone was in a great mood. I cried so much, though, Helen. I did not stop crying.

No, no, it was a proper sob fest. Yes, anyway. We could talk about that for our eight hours. hours. But we won't. We will not. No. I would love to talk to you. Well, kind of just about your whole life. Because when I first met you, I mean, you're the same person and you're still great crack now as you were then. But I feel that you've been on such a journey and you've had this really unique situation of doing it really publicly. So you've written a book called Get Divorce Be Happy. I'm obsessed with the title. My husband's sitting there. It's a real mystery to

what it's about. Yeah. I hope he's feeling nervous to think he's listening. great one to have next to your bed, I find. People said, yeah, I've just got it there, just occasionally reading it when my husband fucks me off. People on the toes. Yes, yes. There's a way out. There's an exit. I'm going to send it to you. I'm going to get a posted to the house. I'll address it to Dave. But, I mean, if you don't mind, like, would you, would you tell us this kind of like happy ending of a divorce? Because I feel like we don't hear that a lot. No, no. And I think, I think, you know, as I've, I wrote in the book, divorce was my worst nightmare. I remember a month before I found out my husband

was having an affair and my whole life kind of got thrown up in the air, you know, split into a million pieces. I remember hugging him very tightly and going, oh, I never want to get divorce. It just felt like if I could love him as hard as possible and if I could do everything to make things happy, then, you know, we would be together forever. And, you know, the way I was brought up, my father was a vicar and you know marriage was the prize and marriage was forever and you and that's what I thought and I had my whole life sort of mapped out I met my ex when I was 19 and I was like right this is it this is this is it and and like for many women I'd you know I'd been with him for 22 years and it had just got easier like we got through the hard years of the early you know children and difficult

and we were five days off signing a mortgage to renovate the house I was like right I've held in for the really shit bits and finally we're going to have this happy year and that's when I found out about the divorce

and I just I just remember thinking no no no no no no this is not this is not how I plan this is not

this is and and instantly he looked like a different person I did not recognize him and so so to cut a long

story short I found a love letter in his jacket pocket by mistake my daughter said oh I want to be Dr. Who for World Book Day, picked up his coat. And I said, oh, dad's got a blazer.

And when I picked it up, there was something hard in the pocket, and it was a love letter. And it was from a woman I recognized. And it had been going off for four years. I had no idea. Four years. Four years. And, yeah, so that was very difficult. And then he came home about half an hour later and said, oh, hi, how are you going?

And I said, oh, can we just go upstairs? And then I just took him upstairs. And I threw the letter on the bed. And I said, good one, dickhead, it's over. And that was it. Good for you. That was it. And I just, and I had no, there was no begging for forgiveness.

There was no, he just looked like, fuck, I've been found out. It's over, you know. I must have known that I would find out one day. There must have been something. But I don't understand. I mean, for four years, he kept out of secret. That's huge. To carry that and to carry out this life.

And I remember, I can, you know, was what we had not enough, you know, children, house, you know, all that. sort of stuff and and he said you know I loved you because you're a good mum and the friends but I didn't think you were beautiful and so he got that from somewhere else and he thought that was okay and I remember when he said that I lay on the floor and I went bovine I sort of went like primal so he thought it was okay to get what he wanted from me but what he wanted you know the other stuff got from someone else and and he didn't have a problem with that and I remember talking to Anna Matha Yeah

Lovely Anna Mather And she was a Psychotherapist and she said She often had these men Who would come in and just say I want my cake and eat it I want the wife and children But I also want the bit on the side

I want to feel desired And yeah so it was Yeah Anyway so that was pretty shit That was a pretty Everything you know But also So they

Nothing changes And the people having a fair Nothing changes Because that is their reality They're living this duality but what you thought was real, the holidays, everything, everything gets into question. And so I had to recreate the last four years of my life and the last 22 years. Because I was like, well, if he lied about that, what else do he lie about?

What other affairs? Which other women are out there? It must have been a long time after that of just trying to like piece things together from the past four years. Yeah. And going, oh, that wasn't a work conference. Oh, that wasn't a thing. he was oh okay so yeah so it was sort of repeating so i was smashed to pieces and that was just

a couple of weeks before the pandemic so oh my gosh yes so i went into the pandemic a complete mess but then i didn't have anyone to who could hug me for three months so i was in like you know because when we're in our greatest periods of strife what's the first thing we do we get to our you know our family our loved ones we go out we get pissed you know we do all those things we want contact, we want comfort and I had none of that thing. So I sort of feel like I had this sort of heartbreak boot camp, this complete, yeah, I had to, you know, everyone says, you've got to sit in the shit. I was fucking knee deep. I was, you know, up to my, you know, neck in the shit and the sadness. And I guess it was good in a way because I couldn't run from it.

I couldn't get distracted by work or anything else. I had to sit with my children and go, this is our new life now so yeah I did I did do a lot of drinking and a lot of smoking and a lot of comfort eating and it was it was just a month off winning training for that marathon in 2020 so it was the March and that's when I kind of got to know you yes exactly so I just done the it was on the first of March I did the big half and I did it in just under three hours I remember I was really proud of

myself and I thought right I've got the London Marathon next month and then the fourth of March is when I found out about the affair. So I just stopped running and I didn't run again for about eight months. Yeah. Yeah. I replaced it with, you know, bags and sugar and crying, basically. So that was where I was at. But yes, but there's a happy ending, listener.

There is a happy ending. I had to have a big blowout and all that sort of thing. But eventually I pulled myself together. But I guess one of the biggest things that I did was I, I asked for help and I knew I couldn't do this alone. And I think, you know, and I have, and I did say this in the book. I said, I only lost one person, but I felt like I gained thousands from, from this sadness. And I just thought, I need to do something good from this.

This is a really awful thing to go through. And so, yeah, so about three months into being separated, I decided I would start talking about it. And so Ellie and I, on the Scummy Mummies podcast, did it. podcast about becoming single. And I was overwhelmed. There were women from around the world messages going, thank you for talking about separation. And then I started talking about becoming a single mom and how joyful it was.

I felt a real freedom in it. And it was something I was really scared. And I think, you know, bit by bit we're trying to change the narrative of what single parenting, solo parenting, co-parenting, whatever you like to call it, is light. Because I think there's always been a head tilt. There's always been a broken family, you know, that sort of thing, broken home. And I know so many women who are single moms and co-parents to say how joyful it is. It's messier.

It's more tiring. But you get to have a closeness with your children that you may not have had before. And the children are away from now the conflict that may have encountered before as well. So there's lots of, you know, I think I've become much. closer to my children. When we got separated, what was that, four years ago, my kids were eight and, eight and ten. And so they were pretty little, and it was a big thing to kind of face.

But, yeah, I wouldn't have it any other way now. I really love our little family of three. It's great. Yeah. And they get to see their mom be happy. Yeah. Like, that's just, I mean, my parents were divorced and I think there's this thing. And my husband's parents, he just, just his mom.

And I think you do, like, I don't know, you've got all these, like, ideas for your childhood or ideas for whatever. And I think as a parent, I know my mum always felt like this kind of like responsibility to, you know, for us. And it's like you haven't really got the words to stay here as a kid, but really all you need is to see your parents be happy no matter what that looks like. And that's the most important lesson. Yeah. And not be the doormat. Yeah. Not put up with terrible behaviour.

Because kids see that too. Yeah, they do. They do. They do. Yeah. And that's a hard thing because you don't want a mom to feel guilty. You don't want to, you know, you don't want anyone to feel guilty that they, because you've got to, you know, you do it on your own path. But it's like, it's nice to know as a kid and fork it, you know, as a parent now and as a kid myself. But it's just like, kids aren't stupid. And you, you can trust them to want the best for you and trust them to benefit from the best. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And so many people ask me about telling your kids. And that is the hard. one of the hardest things we will do in the whole process is that I remember it'd been about 10 days and I thought we've got to tell them and we sat them down and yeah they're really upset and they but they wanted to know and I remember interviewing um philippa peri about this and I said you know what should you tell them she said well you know your children best like work out the

best way to communicate with them but um children need a reason if you go if you go from you know all of a sudden being married to being separated, most of the times they'll blame themselves if they haven't, you know, that's how they work it out. And yeah, so through some advice, again, through a psychologist and therapist I was seeing, we did tell the children that dad had met another woman and it was the wrong thing and there were consequences to that.

So enough information that they knew it wasn't to do with them, but also because so many friends, friends I'd talked to said what was more painful was finding out the lies that they'd been told as children and then everyone else knew when they didn't, you know, when they got to the 30s and 40s, they're like

oh, everyone knew your father had an affair. Well, that's very hurtful. Yeah. There's so much stuff. We forget to tell my sister it's mad. She's an adult now and I'll tell her someone. She's like, what? Hang on. And then you're like, what?

I know. Oops. I'm like, you should have paid more attention. but you're right like it's yeah the honesty but it's a hard like it's such a big and it does kind of fall on mom's shoulders yeah yeah and I have my children five out of seven days like they go to their dad's four days a fortnight

and so you know I I'm primary carer and I like I just adore that time that we have together and I think yes I get to see them two days less but I feel like the time I do spend with them is rich and yeah and it is yeah just slightly more chaotic than it would be and then there is those times where I'm like oh one kid needs the homework done and there's only there's only one of me so we just have to but that's not bad life lessons to learn you have to wait and you know it's not always immediately and they've had to do more housework because I just need need help yeah so that's that

that's it but yeah it was it was really hard to go through going through a divorce during the pandemic, not only because I was like very keen to get out and date. And I think maybe the universe sort of intervened and went, hold your horses, lady. I remember going on to Tinder in the pandemic. And you could only sort of text people, you know, so there was only that sort of available. But when, when you were able to go out and date, then I very much did. Did you? Yes, I had a very nice time on the online dating. And it is as horrific and as great. You know, it's, you know, as I say during the show

it's like Deliveroo it's like Deliveroo Coch you can get sex very easily in London just put in them things I'm not saying it's good quality or the people are actually nice but it is available

Deliveroo to be fair all that you're missing is a review system I think we just got the title of this episode Deliveroo Cock Epic Oh my God

yeah so but it was was a process and I'm glad I had that because I when I got together with my ex I was 19 so I didn't have everyone talks about being wild and crazy in their 20s but I didn't I'm with you I got married at 18 married I got with Alex who I married at 18 yeah yeah don't do what your auntie Helen did but yes I had I had a good a good couple of years of exploration and I and I sort of just went into it feeling like, well, you know, why not go out with people who are older, younger, different backgrounds, different kind of job situations, all sorts of things.

And I sort of was open to all of that. And yeah, it was, it was, I learned a lot, but mainly about myself and about boundaries and about, you know, goading and all those sort of, all the epic things about dating. And, yeah, and I learned, yeah, a lot about, you know, the influence of porn on sex and all those sort of things and I and it was it was it was really much a great sort of baptism of fire back into the whole dating world but I'm glad I sort of had that blowout I've now been in a relationship um for 18 months with an incredibly kind lovely wonderful man so I did what do you say I kissed a lot of frogs a lot of frogs it probably makes you a really aware mom as well to know the kind of like the landscape yeah yeah I think so

So, and I feel like I've, you know, I'm now very in love and very committed and, you know, I feel very lucky to find someone now in my life. But my priorities for finding a life partner. And I didn't go into the, you know, the date I had with my, with my lovely partner, it was, I had no expectations and I wasn't like, oh, I need to find my future husband. It was like, oh, he looks really nice and we've been texting and everything. And then as soon as I saw him, I was like, oh, everything, it's all, that's all gone now. I just, I, ah, it was, yeah, yeah, I just knew, I knew.

Did you meet him on an, on an app? On, yeah, on Bumble. That's where I met my husband on Bumble. That's when my brother met his wife. Really? We should get sponsorship. Yeah, I know. I've been waiting a long time for Bumble sponsorship, actually.

I feel like it's... I've been sponsored by Bumble and I've never even dated. Rude. M. Clarkson, you lie. I wasn't, there was no false pretenses. The campaign. was specific and unrelated but I apologize to you both. Me and Alex have got work to do.

Yeah, I'm very sorry. But yeah, it was an unexpected but very delightful thing. And he just happened to live 10 minutes down the road. We met at the pub exactly halfway between our houses and it was like, that's it. Yeah. Time stood still. All the things, all the things that people told you. That you trust, that you just trust, was your trust affected? Have you been able to just trust him wholeheartedly? Yeah, and I just sort of went, if I don't fully trust him,

then I'm not going to fully get the love. Do you know what I mean? Like if I hold back, then I'm holding back from the joy as well as the fear. And I didn't want to miss out on that because I'd been so badly hurt and I just thought, what if I got to lose? I have been destroyed before. I can rebuild myself. But also, I didn't want to miss out on fully going into love in the most sort of delicious,

You know, rom-com, all the bluebirds, all the things. I wanted to know what love felt like. But also, like, when you're dating when you're younger, there might be an expectation of, like, having children together and all that stuff. But I thought, I've got a career. I've got a house. I've got children. I've got all the friends I need.

I've got every, I've got this full foundation. I've got, whatever happens, I've got this beautiful life. So who I meet is just going to. to be for pure love and pure sort of happiness and no expectations for him to complete anything within me it just has to be this beautiful thing between us and it and it's a completely different love it's a really yeah he's from the canary islands he's a he is like spanish sunshine he's divine but we we're both foreigners in this in in in in the UK and we've built a life here independently and all that's the stuff.

So it's just nice to sort of be in love for love's sake and not think, oh, but is he going to, you know, be the solid but it turns out he's this beautiful stepdad or, you know, friend to my children and all that's the stuff. And we don't live together

and it's lovely. Does he have his own children? No. No, okay. No. So that's really... So, you know, he's learning about teenagers. Yeah. Smells. All the things, all the things. But it's sweet because he just lives down the road.

He can, like, pop in for dinner. And then, you know, he goes home and then my children can scream at me about where they're peak. It is at 10.30 at night. And he doesn't have to deal with that. You can come back. It's lovely. So how did you go from, like, Helen at the beginning of the pandemic with the cigarettes and the alcohol? and the sugar, which actually doesn't sound that.

I mean, it's quite nice. I wasn't not enjoying it. I could do it for a couple of weeks. How did you go from that to now? Like, because that's a, that's a, it's in a reverse, isn't it? Yeah, so, so funny enough, I saw it, when I started talking about becoming a single parent and all that sort of stuff. So it was a new kind of departure for scummy mummies because Ellie and I have been doing scummy mummies for many years and we both had two children and their husband. So we lived this sort of parallel life.

And now I was speaking to a whole new audience quite authentically. And so a commissioning editor from Penguin got in touch and said, it'd be really great if you could speak about the first year of divorce, what it's like as it's happening. So I wrote this, you know, book in five months and it was cathartic. And I remember sitting at the kitchen table like pouring my heart out. And so the book is very raw. But in the process of writing the book, I had five months to write,

basically a PhD. So it was like an 80,000 word research book. And to do that, I was homeschooling. It was in the pandemic. I was delivering food three times a day and smoking and not sleeping. And then when I said delivering cock. That was on the weekend when my kids are at their day. Delivery drivers were busy. So busy. So that was great. But in the process of writing this book to help other people. I kind of just destroyed myself physically. So when I submitted the book, I was just broken. And a friend of mine as a doctor and said, oh, do you want me to do your bloods? And when I got the results, I had no vitamin D. And I was, I was overweight. I'd put on more and more weight. And I was on the way to sort of, you know, my dad had had heart attacks. My mom had had diabetes. And I was heading towards

all those things. So it was a massive sort of wake up call. And then I got in touch with my friend who's a nutritionist. And I said, I need some help just to, recalibrate my relationship with food, recalibrate my sleep, stress, and she did all those sort of things. And so, yes, I sort of started to rebuild myself and then I got back into running. And then I did my first marathon in 2021 and I did that in six hours and perfect. And I hugged everyone, ran, ran, ran, ran, loved it. And then I was starting to get a little bit faster and I lost a little bit weight, but there was never any kind of goal weight or goal in losing weight. It was just a combination of having a healthier relationship with food and sleep and all this of stuff. So

I lost a little bit of weight, it was getting fast. And I thought, actually, I think I could do this a little bit faster. And then it just, it all sort of went hand in hand. And I'd done two years of talking therapies. And then I was finding every time I went for run, I was getting that same feeling after having a good purge with the therapist. So that kind of kept going. And And then, so the following year in 2022, I ran the London Marathon in four hours and 14 minutes, so 100 minutes faster. Wow. Mental.

Unreal. And I did it to the minute. Like, as my marathon guide, Elki said, you were metronomic. Like, I ran each K as she had told me to the minute. And so, yeah, so and that, and then I remember meeting up with Penny from the London Marathons. And she's like, do you know about, do you know about the same? six stars. I was like, what are the six stars? And she said, these are the six marathons in the world and you get a medal at the end with six, the six medals joined together, like a

mega medal. I want them. That's why I told you I wanted to do. This is, yeah, so I didn't know this was my life goal, but this is now my life goal. Have you done two now? I've done four. Oh, wow. So I've done London three times, Copenhagen, which is not a six star, but I've done Berlin, New York and Boston. So I've got Chicago to go this year and Tokyo next year. and then I'll get the mega medal and so that's so excited for you but I didn't I never ever thought you know seven years ago when I started running

I loved the running community because it didn't matter how big you were how old you were how fast you were there was always someone cheering for you and it's the most beautiful community there's about a million different Facebook groups the slowest fuck Facebook group is awesome and obviously the work you do M as well

but like yeah I just I loved that it didn't matter how fast I was or whatever I did there was just someone cheering for you and it's and it's beautiful and I remember talking to someone about marathons is that there's not many other sports in the world where you run the same race on the same day as the Olympians and the world champions like you're not in the pool with the people doing the 50 metres

are you you're doing the same race you're getting the same as I always used to say you get the same medal as Moe yeah Absolutely. Just a little bit later. Just a little later. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Isn't that nice? We've got the same medals hanging up at our house. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's very, very nice. So, yeah, I love it. But I always am very caution to say, like, you know, running has been a massive part of my recovery, massive part of my therapy, you know, how I get through each week. But I always say, you don't have to run.

If you're recovering from a divorce, you don't have to run. Full stop. You just have to find the movement. or find what works for you in terms of, you know, I've just found it has been wonderful. But, yeah, it's not for everybody and it doesn't have to be for everyone. And everyone's like, oh, how do I? And when I started losing the way, because I did lose some weight, people were messaging me and going, what are you eating for breakfast and what do you have?

And I'm like, I can't, I don't know, because my body responds to food in different ways and my life is mental. Like, it's chaotic and I'm on tour all the time and I'll be eating. eating curries at 1 a.m. because that's what I have to do. But I've just learned how to kind of manage it. And I guess my nutritionist was the best advice I ever got was just 80-20. You know, eat kind of consciously or healthily 80% of the time. But 20% of the time, fucking have a nice time, you know. Have you 1am, curry? Yeah. And eat the fucking cake. You know, don't, food shouldn't be a punishment. Neither should

exercise. None of it should. Find your joy. all of that sort of stuff. And it shouldn't, you know, I just remember shoveling food in as punishment, you know, as much as I could, you know, numbing feelings, numbing the hurt or whatever it was, you know. And now I just, yeah, I have a much more healthier relationship with food and my body and all that sort of thing. The only thing I'm incredibly sad about is that my boobs have gone from a G cup to a C cup. and I really fucking miss them I loved my boobs

I really do Did you get a boob job? I called to get a boob job That's a great idea Get a boob job Be happy That could be your next book Get tits

I'm the tits You're the tits That's a great idea That's a great idea That's a nice birthday present Yeah why don't you go get a boob job Maybe I'll finish my marathons first Yeah

I don't want to tip over No exactly they won't hold your back Although I finish them slightly quicker Because my boobs would be so big I'll get to the finishing line. Yeah, you've also got like a life jacket if something goes wrong on one of the flights. Yes, yes, that's exactly right. No. Yes, it was a sad thing. It was a sad day where I was like, oh, just roll them back up. Just tuck them in. Roll them around. Oh, the days where they

used to just, oh, yes, just consume me. They've gone. So I guess with running, you like found your thing. Yes. And like that really helped you through the divorce. And I'm wondering if like for anyone who's listening who's going through a divorce or just or a breakup any kind of heartache like that heartbreak like that not that they necessarily like have to find a thing but like do you have any tips or like advice that you would give them i think i think what i focused on was not so so much for the first three months after divorce i was thinking of all the things i lost like are we were going to be grandparents together and we were going to do the thing and so it was all about the things that he took away and then I just sort of had one day I'm like oh my God I've got a blank sheet of paper my whole life is opportunity and that excited me and I just sort of wrote down everything I could do

and everything that he used to sort of poo-poo or you know everything was a compromise and everything was a criticism and everything was oh you sure you want to do that can you do that I was like nobody's telling me no no one's telling me to stop

and so it's limitless and that's what's exciting you know do that zumba class do that pottery class try everything and and and there's no and don't be afraid of failing don't be afraid of looking silly in fact aim to look a bit silly something kind of heady and exciting going I'm going to look like a bit of a dick and it doesn't matter

no one cares yeah who cares if anyone laughs at you as well I think I love that just embrace it and and and it feels like you you are starting again and that yes it is scary and I think so many of them going oh I don't want to know what's on the other side I want to take the leap fuck me though you fly you absolutely fucking fly when you take that leap and it's great and yeah and I know it's hard and I know it's scary but um you just learn so much about yourself you learn so much about your friends and and you have this new authentic life that you really didn't know existed before so I think that's

That's what's great. Yeah. And I don't want to, like, put words in your mouth or, like, speculate as to your relationship with your husband before you found out about his affair. But, you know, saying, like, a month before that you were hugging him and, like, the worst thing you could, like, the worst thing that could have happened would be to lose him. Yeah. It's kind of, I suppose, and I think it happens, I don't know, I don't know if maybe you, you know,

on some subconscious level or if it's just a fear-based reaction anyway. But you do, I suppose your priorities end up being so. geared towards making sure that they're happy. Yes, yes, yes. That's so liberating when, you know, because you're probably trying to make him happy because you feel like something's missing or wrong or whatever it is in some way.

Absolutely. And I remember talking to lovely Anna Mather about she said there must have been something in your subconscious that knew that something, you know, the universe was saying, yeah, you needed to be reassured. There was something there. Yeah, because I remember him being a bit depressed

and a bit withdrawn. I was like, oh, do you need to see it. You know, I was always trying to fix him. And that's just innate in who I am. But, yeah, something was not right. Something was up. So that is really liberating. That's fantastic.

That, like, I don't have to worry about that anymore. But it's still in your nervous system. And I was recounting this story today. Like, you know, I was painting my staircase a couple of years ago, bright yellow because, you know, stuff at. let's do that. I remember I made a mistake and put a bit of yellow paint on the wall. And I went, oh no, he's going to be so angry at me when he gets home.

And I thought, where the fuck did that come from? Like, I was still frightened two years after he left that he was going to yell at me. And I thought, how funny that it's still in my bones. That, you know, you do this sort of stuff. You announce the world, get divorced, be happy. I'm, la, la, la, la, I'm fine. But it's still, it still shakes in your bones. And I think that's, you know, that's, that's, it's not, yeah, I've run the marathons and I've

transformed myself and, you know, found love and all that's so stuff. But, you know, I'm still stuck back together and there's still cracks and bruises and things like that. And I have to be kind to myself and there'll be wobbly, wobbly days. You know, we do throw words around like warrior and inspirational and, you know, strength and all this is stuff but most of us are just trying to get through the day and we don't have a choice we have to get up and get through things and we're not we don't feel strong powerful most of the time we just we're just sort of struggling and yeah and I think sometimes there is

it can be a little bit too much toxic positivity thrown around I'm so toxicly positive it's awful I know I get this criticism all the time oh I'm very jolly I'm just generally jolly and I'm not I'm the antidote to you this is why you work and same with Ellie Ellie Ellie's

Ellie I say I'm a realist Helen I'm like I know that's why I love her I know I am I'm very very jolly most of the time

and I get excited about flowers and soap and I don't know lots of things I love a good soap though I just love a good soap yeah I'm like that with you I just sort of skit through life

kind of like humming and singing and that sort of thing but yeah um sometimes friends have to remind me to be not sad but it's like it's all right to feel it yeah it's all right to do that and um so i've had to learn how to be angry yeah learn how to be sadder all those sort of things and consequently the happiness and the the joy have been enriched by that because i haven't sort of dulled either either end of the spectrum really yeah you felt it all yeah yeah yeah Yeah, and I was kind of thinking about that when you talked about that reframe of what have I lost initially, you know, just after the divorce, like, what have I lost? And I'm having to let go of this, like, future that I'd imagine. And it's a grief, it's a living grief, yeah.

And it's like, and I was thinking that it's a reframe. And I was like, actually, it's not a reframe because it's still important to have that, to feel that grief and to grieve that life that you thought you had. thought it was ahead of you. Yeah. So it's like grieving it and but then seeing like the other side of things. Yeah, I just thought it was really nice. That was really lovely.

Yeah. And like really good advice. Yeah. And I've had to have a new relationship with myself. And and also the way because of, you know, because now I talk about running and my, my shape has changed that the expectation or, the way I've been perceived, that's not always been positive for other people.

And that's, you know, when I started out on Instagram, outside of Scummy Mommy's, I was called Helen We's a size 18, and I was a size 18, and now I'm a size 12. And some people were very angry about that and message me and said, you're not who you said you were and you've let me down. And, and, and, you know, that's okay. They're allowed to, anyone's allowed to say anything, obviously. but I had to have a bit of peace about that that I couldn't please everybody

no and I wasn't doing it I didn't yeah you can't live your life for the people either no and but I was always very upfront about you know I lost weight very very very very slowly and it was you know it was it was through just very small changes that I made and exercise and things like that and but yeah I think

it is hard when you're you as you say doing things so publicly and I think but I think most people who write to me are really lovely and what I've loved is someone says I've just started running today and then six months later they say I've just done my first 5k and then next you know I've just done my first 10k and I just find that it makes me weep it's a really lovely thing to know that they've seen what I do and again I'm not telling anyone to run but just sharing my experience and my joy and then But even sharing, like, a happy ending after a divorce, like, it's never been spoken about, like, you say, you know, there's always a kind of, like, tiptoe around a broken home and, like, there wasn't, it, it couldn't have ever been the happier choice, you know, like, even, like, for, like, you know, even as recently as my teenage years, which was only, like, 10 years ago, like, when I started school, when I started big school, in my group, there were all of our parents were together, and by the time we left, over half of them were divorced. And it was like, it was kind of weird, like it just, maybe they're waiting for their kids to grow up a bit, I don't know, whatever. And it was so like, oh, and everyone was sad, and it was just sad.

And it was just really, it was kind of like shameful thing. And no one taught, anyone was embarrassed and no one talked about it. And I feel like that's exacerbated so much for the, for often wives who've been cheated on. Because it is, you know, we're told it's like humiliating and all these things. And like, and the trope is that you've done something wrong or whatever it is. And that's like, why did he leave you? Yeah, like not why was he a massive fucking prick, but like what's just you do to make him be a massive fucking prick?

I don't know. I feel like there's such a societal shame around a woman's involvement in divorce. It's got nothing to do with her. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's really cool and liberating. And it must mean so much to women who've been in the position that you are to see you just do this so joyously. I just, yeah, I feel like I've been given a gift or a life.

You know, when they talk about, about a door opening I didn't know into a room. I had a lot of dreams during that time about living in a house and discovering a new room in the house. And I thought, no, this is my brain sort of working out, oh, no, you've got this whole other life, this whole other space you can move into. So that was interesting.

But yeah, I think that's right. And having spoken to like friends' mothers, like, you know, women, like one or two generations above us, they're like, when I got divorced, no one invited me to dinner parties anymore. They thought I'd hit on their husbands. You know, and they were shamed at the school gates and not invited out anymore and very much othered. But now I think that's, you know, one in four families are single parent families.

You know, we are very much part of that. And I've loved the fact that Ellen and I can now touch a whole new community that when I get up on stage, I go, you know, shout out to my single parent sisters and the audience and where, you know, fist pumps and things like that. So I think that's been joyful. And the single parent community are so supportive. A bit like the running community. Everyone's, everyone's got their backs, which is great. I'd say please all these people have your back. You deserve it.

Thanks, man. I've really a lovely time. Yeah, good. And I'm like, you're striving. I'm not divorced and I don't plan on being. No, don't you don't need to. You've got quite a night husband. You're making you want to.

But looking at you, like following your journey for the last few years, it's just so great to see you just get like happier and happier and happier. Yeah, it's a nice, it's a nice feeling. And I, and there's times where I'm like, oh, just shut up, Helen. No one wants to hear that. Yes, we do. Yes, we do. Very much so. Oh, thank you. But it's just been, yeah, I feel very, I feel very lucky. And I just thought, Jesus, I've got this wonderful platform that Ellie and I have built up with scummy mummies. I love for scummy mummies. I love, I know, I know when we first met. I know. Now you're in. You're in it. You're in it.

You're in it covered in all the bodily fluids. Yep. Not a lot of sleep. But no, I love our community. I think it's great. And I get so much from our live shows and connecting with people. We're on tour at the moment, which is great. And our live shows are all, what I love is that I see women in the audience elbowing each other or going, oh, yeah, that's me.

Or, you know, when you connect us and YouTube bus know that, when you connect with women, it's fucking powerful beautiful and when a woman when a woman is seen or she's heard or whatever we all win you know we're all winning together

and I think that's that's what's you know I know social media's a bit of a binfire some days but there's some fucking great stuff that can come out of it as well as air fire recipes

you know there's some good stuff I got you for the air fire recipes I love it watching airfire as a feeling the best. Who knew what you could put in those things? Everything. Absolutely everything. Show me something you can't put in there. Your baby.

Don't put a baby in an air friar. Soup, maybe not soup, actually. You can have a soup in there? Can you? Easy. That'll heat up, no drama. No drama. Oh, because you've got one of the fancy new ones.

I do not have a fancy new one. Sponsed by Ninja Baby. Jealous. This has been so good. Oh my God. So lovely. I feel like I've taught too much. You two were the.

Are you kidding? Oh, banged on. Do you know how an interview works? Oh yeah, yeah. I'm the guest. Damn it. Oh yeah. I'm used to being in the driver's seat.

I feel full of joy now actually. I do. Which is unusual for me. Do you have a little bit? A little bit. I feel inspired. You've inspired me. Thank you.

No, I feel good. Thank you so much for coming. We love you. Pleasure. Thanks, Alan. Why do we go to one of Helen's shows? Yes. Yeah.

Okay, look. I've come. They're so fucking funny. Can I just say before you go. If you haven't gone to one of the Scummy Mummy shows, you have to go. And this is just anecdotal evidence as to why I'm right. So the last show that I saw you do, I was watching a cameraman. I was with my sister and we were like laughing, laughing, laughing.

And there was a cameraman and he was not the scummy mommy audience by any stretch. He was like a really young guy, like early 20s. Like really cool. He was just, he looked really cool. And he was holding the camera and he was fucking cackling. Like the whole camera was like jiggling. He was laughing so much. That footage would be shocking.

Oh my God. That is what I love when I'm because we often say who here's a non-parent. and we get about two or three people in the audience out of a couple of hundred. And to see them laugh, I think, yes, I've got you. It's just life, it's just life. Thank you. Thank you so much, Helen. Bye.

You always have to say bye at the end of our podcast. Bye. Should I delete that is part of the ACAS creator network.