Should I Delete That? - Get ok with getting old with Nadine Baggott

Episode Date: September 4, 2022

This week, Em and Alex chat to Nadine Baggott, beauty expert, writer and presenter, who happens to have recently turned 60. She gives the girls an insight into ageism and her thoughts on how the beauty industry needs to change in order to be fully inclusive. Why are ageing men seen as attractive and ageing women considered unsightly? Why should you have older friends in your life?You can follow Nadine on Instagram @nadinebaggott and watch her YouTube videos hereFollow us on Instagram @shouldideletethatEmail us at [e-mail] & edited by Daisy GrantMusic by Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Oh my God, why did I post that? Ah, I don't know what to do. Should I delete that? Yeah, you should definitely delete that. Hello. Hello. Welcome back to the Should I Delete Up podcast. I hate starting it.

Listen to my posh voice. Welcome to that. Welcome back to the Should I Delete that? No wait. Just say it like fancily. Hi there. Welcome back to the Should I Delete That Podcast. Podcast.

It sounds funny, doesn't it? Yeah, hello, welcome back. I can't do it. I like yours. That was quite good, actually. Hello, welcome back to the Should I Delete that podcast? I'm trying to channel John Lumley. Oh, I was going for Nigella.

Oh, I'm Nigella, yeah. Although I don't know how she'd say podcast if she's a micro-a-evee. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Poodcast. No, forget that. um how are you i'm good i'm good it is a Thursday but feels like a Friday so that's nice i disagree i think it's Thursday that feels like a Wednesday oh that's a holiday shame for you bank holiday yes oh yeah that's funny isn't it so it should be a Wednesday oh i have to kick us off

with our awkward my awkward because i can't believe that i've seen you and spoken to you so many time since this happened and I haven't told you yet because it's actually a miracle that I'm still alive and breathing because it's probably the worst thing this ever happened to me in my whole life so genuinely it's really bad and I've told so many people this and I can't believe I haven't yet shared it with you so I was at a family wedding at the weekend you know I was kind of like offline and I was away for family wedding and I was like with you know the gang and I went for a walk on the day of the wedding on Saturday morning I went for a walk and I went for a walk I went to the shop and I'd never been in the shop before.

I hadn't seen the shop before. I went in and had some really wacky earrings. And I was like, God, this is great. And, you know, when you're away, you're by yourself. You, you know, so I was chatting with the shop assistant. And in my mind, we became best friends. And she helped me to use earrings. Everyone, so I got some for me and some for my mom and some for my sister.

And then I was like, cool, these are perfect. Thanks so much. Miss you, best friend. See you later. Bye. Thanks for helping me. I'm going to go now. And I went for my walk.

And then when I was on my walk, I thought, I did that thing where you over think because there was another lady staying in our house. We were renting a house next door to everyone else. And it was my mum's, like my mum's friend who we were renting the house with. And I was like, oh my God, this is going to look so rude because I'm going to get back. I'm going to say to my mum, look, I got you some earrings, but then I didn't get M.A. in the earrings. So I was like, I'll feel really bad about that. So I need to go back to the shop and get some M.A. some because I'm going to feel bad, you know. So I was gone for an hour and a half on my walk. And I was like, oh, I'll just swing by on the way back. And I went on the way

back and I walked back into the shop and I walked in it as a small shop and I turned to the right where the earrings were so I set the scene you come in through the door shop assistant is behind the counter on the left it's very small shop and then the earrings I liked were on the right straight away right so I walked in took an immediate swing to the right to look at the earrings and the shop assistant behind me goes you're back and I spin round jazz hands at the ready and I go I'm back because this woman is my new best friend and as I spin round with my jazz hands out I realized she's not talking to me she's talking to her husband who came in behind me with a cup of coffee so I'm like I'm back my jazz hands are literally in his way as he tries to like come into the

shop so I just and I just didn't know what to do I was just like I'm back and I just like finished it off like back and then like lowering my hands to my sides like still jazzing them but just slowly oh my god it was the worst it said it happened to me and i can't now leave first of all because hubby's in my way so i just had to like turn back to the wall pick out the fun cocktail earrings that i'd selected for m a and pay for them with this woman who just like and she was just her and her husband were just like quietly talking to each other like probably saying who the fuck is this bitch i was like I just need to die now. Did she acknowledge it?

No. No. No. No. When I gave her earring, she was like, oh hey. I was like, don't pretend this is the first time you've just seen me. Don't pretend you didn't see the jazz fans. So bad.

That was worse than Jen and it too. Like that was so bad. That is so, so bad. I'm back. I'm dying for you. Literally the worst thing. ever happened to me. I just, it's so bad. It's so embarrassing. It's so awkward. I should have just dropped the earrings and rumble, but I still had the threat of how awkward it would be if I got

back to the house and I hadn't got a pair of earrings when I was showing off. I got them for everybody else. You know when you do that? It's something you get like yesterday. Yesterday we did an interview and Alex, my Alex, because he's adorable, made cupcakes and he gave three cupcakes. He gave one for me, one for Girl Al, and one for Daisy, Producer Daisy. But Producer Daisy wasn't there, because we were on somebody else's podcast. So I arrived with three cupcakes and there were like, what, how many people in that room? They were like, four people. I was like, I can't ask you to share a fairy cake among four of you. So I awkwardly just took three cupcakes in and then left with three cupcakes and we just ate them downstairs by ourselves. There's nothing worse than showing up

and you haven't got enough stuff for people. So I had to just grin and bear through the eye and backs. Oh, it was so bad, Al. Oh, that is very embarrassing. It was so amazing. I'd like the footage of that. Yeah, it would probably not have sound. It'll just be my like big, woo.

I thought you were going to say that you like knocked the display over. I would have loved. I would have loved to have, I wish I'd knock the display. I would have given anything to have knocked the display. play over. I'm back. I'm back. My awkward

is that I went to the vets and absolutely choked proper, proper choked in a way that I don't know if I have done ever before.

So like we moved and our old vets they knew Betty that they really liked Betty, the receptionist really liked Betty. So whenever we walk in

she'd be like, oh my God, Betty, like Betty's here, so fine, that was it. We had a really nice relationship with them, and we've just joined, because we moved, and we've joined a new vet, and hadn't been there before, and, like, Betty's got this, well, I wanted her to have, like, a little, a little consultation, you know, check, she's okay, and, like, everything's okay and stuff, but also she's got these, like, she had these, like, little dots on her head that I was worried about, they're fine. Um, so we walked into the vet, and into the vets, it's

completely empty, and there's, like, four girls behind the counter, like, girls that work there. Like I think two were like vet nurses and then two were receptionists. And so they all look at me because I'm the only person in this place we just walk in. I've obviously got Betty with me because why would I be at the bets by myself? Anyway, she said, one of the girls said, the reception said, what can we, what can we do for you today? So I said, I completely choked and I didn't know what to say. So I just said, a dog. A dog. Okay. and they all looked at me blank and then she's just like

there was like a second and they said and who is it we're seeing and I just pointed down at Betty and said this dog because I was like I honestly don't know what you're asking me and then she said literally and I can see one of the girls

behind the counter she turned away because she was laughing right and I was like I want to cry this is so embarrassing said, and then the receptionist just continued, do we have a name? And I was like, at this point feeling really stressed. So I was like, me or the dog? Like, what named you on? Who's named you on? And she was like, the dog. So I was like, yeah, this is Betty, Betty Media. And I'm dying. I'm actually dying. Oh, my God. That's so bad. But it did unlock this new consideration of like,

what do you do when you go to the vet? Do you say, hi, I'm Alex. I'm here with my dog Betty. Or do you say, hi, I'm here for Betty. I don't know. Like, what are you supposed to say? They don't give a shit about you at the vets. That's what you've got to know. Vets don't care for you. They only care about the dog.

And I, for one, love it. Like, I love feeling like Bua's personal security slash entourage slash PA. I walk her in, well, drag her in because she fucking hates the vets. And I'm like, we've got Bua. This is it that I should probably take a leaf out of your book. I think I should go into situation. with considerably less confidence than I do because look at the story I've just told you

I think I'm too comfortable in these places I think I know what's going on jazz hands should be evidence to that like I think maybe maybe we should enter with trepidation like you do but normally I'd say hey yeah we've got Buwer here Buhr Andrews here to oh she looked up to a full name

that's cute okay well I just shout myself and I was like I honestly just I don't know what to say I was just like I don't know what to say and then the girl turning around

I was like a dog and who is it we're saying this dog like obviously I'm the only person I'm the only dog in the place and the girl turns around laughing I was like

oh I was like I get it I would be laughing too but like this is killing me so yeah that was my choke choke of the week I thought you're going to say you literally chokes

and I was like that that is embarrassing No, that would be very embarrassing. But they did, they did also, they told me that she was too fat, Betty. Oh my God, are you ever feeding her? I don't, well, she goes to my sisters, like a couple days a week. Convenient Convenient And she Because she There are two of the dogs there

Both from Cyprus And they need to have an absolutely ball together Probably not because they're from Cyprus But we like to think it is And I do think she gets a lot of treats While she's there How are the other two looking Quite rotund

Quite rotund Especially one of them has put on a considerable amount of weight Since arriving in the UK Like she looked like a complete different dog so well i think yeah you might you might have your answer i know i know and she has put on weight since we moved nearer to my sister and she's been going to my sisters but um i i i felt like i felt like outraged when the pet told me i was like what do you mean and she was like she's like a couple of kilos overweight i was like i know there's not many kilos too oh jesus no so

But you don't want to give your dog a complex But I suppose you can't They're not really affected by diet culture In the same way, so it's fine Like, okay, so with that in mind Like I'm not trying to like diet culture Bua and I don't want to make a thing out of this But I took Bua

When the last time I took Bua to, again, our new vets Because we moved here We had to go for like, you know, the boosters and stuff And they weighed her And I said she was the perfect weight And they should use her as a poster girl but what all poodle crosses should be because she's just so perfect

I was like You're such a smoked dog mom right now So bad Hit me, good or a bad What have you got for me? My bad, I'll give you my bad Okay So you know I can read a book a minute

Yeah I can read I normally I like to read realistically a book in a week But you know if I've got the weekend Or I'm poorly Or I've got a big journey I can do a book in a day

Book in two days Very happily um in the art of man on july the 19th i actually got a i actually got a dm from somebody saying i screen grabbed you starting this book on july the 19th and it's made me once put my head through a window because i love reading i have the biggest for my birthday you bought me a waterstone sloucher my friend gna who has a book page that i've already talked about on instagram before it's called noveltee like tea that you drink dot with dot g anyway she always recommends books to me and she bought me for my birthday some books and some good books and I've been so excited I've got my big to read pile

never wanting to get through it um but on July the 19th on the advisement of my sister's friend moose I bought this book called the seven deaths of evelyn hardcastle not to be confused with the seven husbands of evelyn hugo they came out at the same time with very stupidly similar names and I loved the seven husbands of evelyn hugo fantastic but this book on the other hand the seven deaths of evelyn hardcastle and I don't say this readily slagely ever but I'm having the worst time of my life trying to read it out really I just can't bear it really every time I pick it up I'm like I hate it then don't read it I haven't no no not an option I wish it was definitely an option I'm so definitely not an option I've never been

able to not finish a book as long as I've lived well this can't do it even last year I put myself, no, 2020, as if the world wasn't suffering enough, I decided to start the Hillary Mantell trilogy, which if you don't know, are three of the biggest books all about Henry the 8th, and they were, I mean, I probably read six, seven thousand pages about Henry the 8th, and by the end of the third one, I just was, honestly, I was just, I couldn't see the point, really, of anything. And it was one of the hardest things I've ever done. And this book, which is literally comparatively, it's a postcard in comparison. just can't get through it.

Look, and it's ruining my life. Take a leaf out of my book, no pun intended, genuinely. And stop finishing books. No. Stop. No. Normalise reading only a first few pages or the first few chapters of a book. No. No.

Yes. It's not a precedent I want to set. It's not the person I want to become. I love my commitment to my books. I've never not finished them. I just, I have to. It's just, it's just one of those things. Then do it today. It's mandatory.

I wish it with that simple. And I, honestly, I, this is me. I can do it. I know I've got the capacity or the capability, but every time I pick it up, I fall asleep. It's really bad. It sounds awful. It's like I'm allergic to it.

It's literally like, I feel like I'm allergic to it. Every time I pick it up, I'm like, oh, can I sleep? It's so bad. It's killing me. Honestly, it's absolutely killing me. And I just, And I know it ends badly because I've been talking about it on Instagram and everybody goes, oh, I fucking hated this book and I was like you and I pushed through it.

It took me two fucking years and I got to the end and the ending was shite. And I'm like, oh, brilliant. But I have to know that for myself now. Then read the last chapter. No, because then the last chapter won't have made sense because I wouldn't have read the chapters in between. Okay, well, I have to say you are making a rod for your own back here. Like, you have options, but you do what you need to do. I don't know, I just don't.

No, I just don't. Imagine. Imagine. How do I look at myself in the mirror knowing that I quit? but I quit A book No Yes no No I love

No no You know it's weird though Because I can quit films Like that Like I put on conversations with friends I read the book Conversations with Friends Having loved

Normal people by Sally Rooney Read the book And I was like This is not a very good book No it's not true This is not my car I didn't love it I wasn't loving it

But I didn't quit Because that's just not in my nature so instead I just put my nose down and finished it in like two hours so that I got it over quicker when I started watching the TV show I was like, no, don't like it, not watching it got five minutes in, I was like not watching it

I don't understand why I can quit the series because normal people I loved but conversations with friends I just didn't like any of them I quite like that series actually I never watched the book yeah see I couldn't do it

never watched the book that's what I feel like I'm doing with the seven husbands I just feel like I'm watching it Like it's just following me around It's like having a horror It's like having a poltergeist It just follows me everywhere You need to let it go

Let it go No I'm gonna finish it And that'll be my good next week Hopefully Okay that's what's gonna say Come back to us With an update next week I have been saying that

Since the 19th of July But okay It's now fucking September Oh shit This has never happened to me That's actually crazy I know humming bobbins My bad

There are spiders everywhere at the moment. And I literally everywhere, like my house is full of them, fine. I try to be chilled around spiders. I don't want to be that person that's terrified of spiders. I really don't want it. But I have to admit that I am. I do not like them. Fine. Anyway, I can kind of get over them being in the house, whatever. They kind of leave you alone, fine. But I go into the car so my mom and dad were picking me up and my little sister was in the back as well so my mom and dad were in the front my sister was in the back I got in the other side of the back and my sister who is genuinely terrified of spiders literally just started screaming and screaming and screaming which is

obviously incredibly dangerous when someone is when someone is driving a car and there was a spider on her dress it obviously come from the car and my My dad's golf stuff had been in the car, so I'm guessing it's from that. And, like, I am not exaggerating when I say the spider was huge. I don't think it was furry, but it looked like it could be because it was like that big. Was it all leg or a meaty body? It was both. It was both.

And it was big. And it was genuinely big because my dad was like, okay, he did concede after shouting at us because he's like, that's so fucking dangerous. He was like, that was a big spider. She flicked it off. My sister flicked the spider off. off of her and obviously landed onto me and I absolutely lost my mind. I really lost my mind. And I kind of lost the fact that we were in a car and like, this is dangerous and like this is actual peril. And I, it was, it was, it was honestly like a horrible moment because you're in

a confined space with this huge thing. And the poor thing doesn't know what to do either. And I get that. Like, it's scared as well. It's not having fun. No. And you know what? You know what's making it more scared. These two giants just looking at it. Freaking out, yeah. And throwing it around the place. So I then flicked it into, I like flicked it into the foot well.

So it's in the foot well. But like, and my legs are up. My legs are up on the seat. I don't have a seat belt on. I've lost all, I've lost all concern for safety. My feet are on the seat. Like, me and my sister,

it felt like a bush took a trial. And then we had to, and I was like, dad, pull over, pull over. I was like, trying to freak out. Like, pull over, pull over. you just need to pull over, you need to pull over, you need to pull over. And I was, like, trying to, like, tap into, like, some inner, inner calm.

And it was horrible. It really was horrible. And I really don't want to be one of those people who's like, oh, I hate spiders, but fuck, I hate spiders. They're just not nice. I just don't know that they don't go forwards. They only go sideways. Same as crabs. Okay, I didn't know that, but that's not nice either.

That's really not nice. Well, they might go forwards, actually. I just don't know that they have the option to go sideways. I just don't like they can outsmart you. know what I mean they can go wherever they want but I kind of like spiders I just I don't like it when I can see their eyes oh god I don't think I've ever come close enough because they've got so many I've got eight I'm kind of yeah I don't mind them like I got I hated them my mom had some really big ones at because we did COVID at my mom's house and it's in the

countryside so there were some like big boys and I'm saying like big boys do you remember I put them on my Instagram and they were like chunky monkeys. And I didn't love them because they were coming up through the drains, because they can live in the drains, because they can put those little oxygen bubbles around themselves and the water goes down. So I didn't love that. But then I did kind of create this like affinity with them. And we kind of had this cool thing. It was like, if I know where you are and you know where I am, then we're kind of fine. But what I didn't like is it's like me and my sister like genuinely like we're just friends with one. We had to tell Alex

to leave it alone because it was like hanging off the blinds. And we were like, just leave her. like she's not hurting anyone it's fine um but like if i'd go and she was just next to the loose i'd just look at her be like morning but like if she was gone ever i'd be like fuck yeah like she's just scary when she's gone when she's there i'm fine with it but when she goes i'm like oh what you get it's something quite sinister about them but then there isn't like they're just trying to survive and they're just so small i know and like they're way more scared of you than you are of them However, it's really hard to like call on that rational state of mind when it's in your personal space and you're just like, oh, this reminds me, Sarah,

who literally might as well be part of this podcast now because I talk about her so much. She's properly, it's one of my best friends, properly terrified of spiders, like, full, like it sounds like a sister, like fully terrified. And she was driving once down, I don't know where, she was going to the countryside, and she was driving and a spider was on her dashboard, I think, or on the inside of her windscreen while she was driving. And she was so terrified because she's so scared of spiders that she pulled in as soon as she could and arrived at this party.

It was like in a golf club or something, and she walked into the party in her like trackies and crocks. It was just like, can somebody help me get the spider out of my car? Oh my God. She has balls. I know. And then this person, I think there maybe there's a couple outside and they're like, yeah, we'll help. And then they like got the spider at her car and she's like, thanks. And then she just laughed. Oh my God. Do you know what though? I was thinking, like it probably does, they probably do cause accidents, you know. Well, I think that. But then sometimes people have like mice in their cars. I think I would rather have a mouse. I would definitely rather have a mouse in my car than a spider. I concur. But imagine you're driving and then a mouse runs like across your hands. or out at your legs or something. Because I think if you leave food in the car,

particularly in winter, it's warm. But how do they get in? So they can, like, nestle... I don't know, man. How does it, like, mice get in everywhere? They're just, they're insane. Like, cars are pretty airtight, no, when you close the doors?

Not at all. Think about the bottom. Oh, God. Think about, like, the bottom where the bottom of the car is. Like, that's not fully airtight. Like, if you drive, if you, like, if they were fully airtight, then they wouldn't get water in them. If you like crash. See,

we are stressing. Everyone who's listening out right now. We are totally stressing them out. I'm so sorry. Yeah, because I'm going to make it worse because every time I drive across a bridge, I have to open the windows of my car

because I think if the bridge falls and I land my car in the water, disaster, admittedly, like probably not going to get out alive, but I want to give myself the best chance. If the windows are shut, it takes a really long time, but it's not impossible,

for the car to fill up with water, because obviously it comes in to like above the wheels and like through the engine probably same places that the mice get in but because of the air because of the pressure of the water you can't open your car door until the inside is fully submerged

does that make sense so you'd have to like it would have to be full and obviously it's me and booer in the car like I can't be playing with our lives like that so I always drive with the windows open when I go across a bridge, so if I fall in, I'd be able to get out through the windows or failing that, the car would fill up way faster so that through the windows so that then I could open the door and get me and boo around.

It seems unnecessary because it's quite hard to fall off a bridge in a car, but okay. Yes, of course it's quite hard. But if it happens, like, do you want to just not, you can't live like that out? It's probably not going to happen, so I'm not going to prepare. You know what? Fail to prepare? You prepare to fail. that's what I'm saying

I feel like there are other areas in your life in which you could prepare literally me the most unorganised person in the whole world but when it comes to yeah this one hypothetical situation I live south of the river in London you have any idea how many bridges I cross

on a daily basis pray for M I'm always on a bridge well then that's a lot of windows up windows down that's annoying well just keep the windows down I think about these things all the time Like how long as you took

Because there's certain situations I'd just let death take me But that's not one of them I'd fight for that Good for you Like if there's an apocalypse or whatever I'd just be like nah Bye

But We have stressed everyone out That's listening to this now They're like fuck My car is full of mice and spiders And I might die off a bridge We might have just saved their lives If they keep the windows open

When they cross the bridge You've learnt something And I learned now watching one of Shonda Rines' An episode of one of Shonda Rines' shows. Scandal. Oh, I love scandal. Oh! Yeah, well, you clearly didn't pay enough attention

because I'm learning valuable life lessons from that show. Oh, that song, The Light Album Leaf, and it was the song that was played every time they would kind of get together. I don't remember it. Oh, it's the most stunning song. I watched ages and ages ago. It's beautiful.

And I just took a life-saving tip from it and stopped watching it. It's the most beautiful song. anyone, if you want to just like the album Lisa Light, it's the most stunning song in the world. Anyway, have you got a good for me? No, have you got a good for me? My good, well, last week, like, I, it was my birthday last week, and because of everything... Oh my God, yeah, we haven't even talked about your birthday. There isn't, there isn't, there's nothing to talk about, but because of everything that's

been going on with my mental state, I have not, like, I did, I did, it didn't even register that it was my birthday, I didn't even think anything of it, but, um, it was on Friday and I think because everyone's known that I've had such a hard time like I've really got made a fuss out of and it was so nice like it was just it was so lovely like I got yeah it was it was just really nice like I felt really special and it really cheered me up so yeah what did you do we went out for a brunch and we went out for a dinner as well a lot of eating out and yeah everyone was just really nice to me. It was just lovely. Very nice. Did you go on a night out in Liverpool? The day after we went up to see my aunties and my cousins, that wasn't my birthday. That was for like a belated hendu for my sister. But yeah, that was really fun, very fun. Good for you. Good for you. My good is just that I went to a wedding. I went to my friend, my god's sister's wedding um and such a like tenuous link to a human isn't it but my friend kitty got married and it was

a beautiful day and i was i went with my mom and we just had like four five days together just me and her well not me and her because there were like a million people there and like all of our family and friends that we haven't seen for like ages but um but just me and her went from like our gang um and it was just really nice to like hang out with her and just you know nice Have a nice time. Love me. Yeah, really nice. Because when you get like, I don't know, older, you have to, well, even when you're like,

I'm not an only child, so you have to share your parents, which is fine. But sometimes it's really nice. Oh my God, it's so nice, isn't it? It's so nice. Like, sometimes, sometimes mom allows us, like, a coffee alone with her. But, like, it's difficult. I say, like, she allows us. I mean, just because there's so many of us, there's five of us.

So it's quite difficult to, like, schedule that in. And also everyone's desperate. so everyone has to have their turn but when we do like when I have like an alone coffee with mum it's like literally so special I'm like oh my god I like choke I'm like what you're talking about I'm so much I don't what to say I love you so much so I get you that that would be nice I'd love to do that like a wedding with my mum it's actually kind of um first time I've done it in a really long time where you go like without a date to a wedding and And my mum, best person in the world, but Jesus Christ, she's ruthless.

She left me at every single party. So we were there for like five days. And because everybody had come from around the world, so Kitty Who's wedding it was, she's Australian and she's marrying a Canadian guy. And like all their friends live here, there and everywhere. And like even like we're all over the country. And just like everyone's together. And it was so special.

But there was a lot of gathering. So there was like the hen party on the birthday. and then there was like engagement drinks and then there was the wedding and then there was a brunch and then like we also had like dinners at our house like just to fill up all the days and just so it was a lot but I swear to God everywhere we went my mom left me I'd just be minding my business I'd be having a nice time and I look around and she's very small so she's easily lost but you'd look around the party and I'm like where did she go fuck sake and it happened like three or four times where she just left me at the at the event so theoretically I had a date um my mom

But she was a terrible date because she just kept abandoning me so I had to make loads of friends and it's actually kind of cool but kind of like yeah going to a wedding on your own like I don't know like I had my friends and stuff there

but they were all with their partners like no one I was the only like single Pringle even though wasn't single you know what I mean so it's just like I imagine that's quite fun though I just feel like oh my god I'm kind of free well yeah except I love dancing with Alex

and I like having my inbuilt dance partner I also think I've got way too comfortable because we've been together nearly a decade, you know what I mean? So like we just, we've kind of got our rhythm and we just do things, you know, we've got a good system. But I was alone. And it was cool, it was fine.

It was lovely, but you just, you're sometimes aware that you're dancing on your own, do you know what I mean? Like you'll be mid-boogie and you'd be like singing the lyrics and you know normally when you're like singing the lyrics and you're looking at someone and then you realize that they're not looking back at you and you're like oh no

like oh god I have to go because everyone's having a nice time everyone's like in the circle and then they kind of pair off and they're all like with their little partners or their moms or whatever

and then you're just like fuck I'm alone and that's a bit much but it was still yeah they played that they dedicated it to me it was nice I am so excited

about our guest this week really excited because I have known her for a really long time. So this week we chat to Nadine Bagger, who is a beauty editor and has been for a really long time. Like this is the woman who knows everything about beauty and skincare. Like she literally knows everything and she's really like she's been doing it for decades and she's invested so much time in like in the science behind skincare as well, which is part of the reason I just, I love her content. But actually what we talked to her about today is,

age positivity, which was something that M and I hadn't considered before because we're still quite fairly young. I speak yourself. Younger than me, but whatever. So it was a really, wasn't it a fascinating conversation? It was really interesting because it's something that we genuinely have not explored before and it opened me up to so, like it opened my eyes up to so much and so much that it's Since the conversation as well, I've just been noticing stuff.

And I just thought it was really super, super interesting. It also made me feel like people of all ages. A lot better about like getting old because we are so conditioned to fear getting older. But, and we talk a lot about that and like why that is and everything. And I think even approaching 30, I know it's like been and gone distant memory for you. But, you know, it's like a big thing for a lot of people. kind of end up in a really big spin but then you kind of have that spin like completely minimised by older people and they're like oh 30 is nothing blah blah blah and people are and people

say you shouldn't be worried you know that come back when you're 40 you come back when you're 50 and it's like actually give space to this um we should be allowed to get space to the feelings that we feel and the reason that we feel them so it's really interesting like to talk about all of that um and it just made me feel very positive in a way that I hadn't I haven't ever felt about getting older before and it made me feel excited about it because as you might guess knowing my character I've got a habit of kind of going into existential spins

if I think about things for too long so it's kind of nice to just think about it in like a realistic term and also she gave me a good recommendation and I've ordered my product I've ordered the I can't pronounce it the Paula's choice product that she told me about

it's on the way nice I'm excited yeah okay so here we go here is Nadine Baggett. Hi Nadine. God, I didn't even know how to start. I don't even know how to start. Good afternoon, good morning.

Good evening. What time you're listening to it? Yeah. We have known each other for, God, years and years now. How long do you reckon it is? About 10 years, but I didn't really, I more knew of you because... That's worrying. I heard the stories now.

I'm just kidding. There were no stories. but I worked at Hello and you were the beauty director of Hello, weren't you for how long, like 20 years? 18 years. 18 years. But I worked in a different department. I was online, so our path didn't cross until later on. And when I started working in beauty, actually, and then we did, do you remember that live we did together?

Yeah. But also I was saying just before we started recording that for me, you were just this young, pretty, perfect girl in pink that was just sort of being held. over me by some powers that be saying, well, we don't, we don't even allow Alex to do that, like you were held up as this perfect person. And then one day, out of the blue, about a year later, I looked at your feed again, and it was during the time when you were being really honest and open about your eating disorder and everything. And I just thought, oh my God, she's human. And I just had this overwhelming urge to come up to you and tell you how amazing your content was and how and I wanted to give you a big hug oh I remember it so well it was such a

I came up to you didn't I at an event where people were being a bit sort of stuck up and snobby and I just came up and I went what you've done with your feed is amazing that's incredible you're so brave it's brilliant it was so nice I didn't know anyone at that event like not a soul and I was I hadn't really thought about it walking in I was just it was for our friend lindsaykel and I just hadn't thought about it and I just turned up and I knew no one and you know when you feel painfully self-conscious and like you're just standing there with nothing to do apart from your phone and you're like, I can't be my phone in my event and you made me feel so welcome so anyway, that was great. So what we wanted to get you on to talk about, which is something that we kind of,

we did a live together, didn't we, a few months ago? We touched on ageism and ageism in the beauty industry and I thought this was interesting because me and Emma as well, we've never given it much thought because we've always been young, right? So it's not ever something that's come into our consciousness. So we wanted to get you on to talk about that because you know a lot about it. You talk a lot about it. And I just think it's a, I think you said to me that it's the last taboo or the last form of discrimination. Yeah, it's the last form of acceptable discrimination. Yeah. And you, you hear casual, snidey comments about older people the whole time. And for the vast majority of people over 50, certainly maybe even over 40, maybe even over 30 in beauty,

it's shocking, or invisible. And I feel like, that this podcast should come with a sort of a side, which is if anybody's listening to this and thinks, I might be agist or I might be dismissive of older people, don't feel bad about it. I was that person too. You really don't know that ageism exists

until you get older because, and I remember chatting to you about it and I was saying that, so obviously I started my YouTube channel when I was 54, I've been a beauty editor for over 30 years, relatively late starter, because I was a features writer first.

And you just accept that the image that's thrown back at you of this young, slim, beautiful person is the epitome of beauty. And when you're sort of young and sort of slim, and you just get on with it, and we sort of collude in this lie, and you know all about that because both of you have stood up against body restriction images and how crazy it is that we only accept one body type, and it's just madness.

Somebody might complain that we only see one skin type as being perfect or one skin tone or one hair type. And all of that is absolutely right, except that the last great taboo is that mostly, even in campaigns that are considered inclusive, there are no people over the age of 40 or 50 or 60. Perfect case in point. And I have no other complaints about this company. I love this company. super drug are an amazing company they're so key with their diversity campaigns and they did a huge campaign i think it was last summer or the summer before it was one of the lockdown summers and there were nine people in this campaign and it was incredible there were people with

there was a transgender person there was a body positivity person there was a there was a gay person there was a drag queen there was somebody with um vitiligo And it was this amazing, inclusive, incredible campaign. There was somebody that was differently abled. I think they had one arm. It was so visible and so amazing. And I stood outside with my young team. And I said, what's wrong with that campaign?

And they went, what do you mean? And I said, what's wrong with that campaign? And they were like, it's incredible. I went, no, no, no, now look over those images into that shop. And show me who's shopping in that shop. Because what's missing from that campaign is there's literally nobody over the age of, I would say even 30 in that. campaign or 40 and it happens the whole time inclusivity means including everybody but you as you get

older and ageism is the only form of discrimination that targets the future you say that again right ageism is the only form of discrimination that targets the future you so you're essentially targeting your future you every time you're disparaging or dismissive about an older person you're being disparaging and dismissive about your future and I only really realize that. I've been ageist. I mean, you know, you've chatted about it before in the past. Both of you have about previously creating content and thinking, I've been so judgmental about my own body or somebody else's body. We've all been there. And I was incredibly ageist when I was younger and dismissive of older people. And then suddenly, and it's such a cliche, you're over 40 and then you're

over 50 and then you're over 60. And then suddenly you look back and think, wow, I'm dismissing this knowledge, this power, this incredible group of people. And I think from my point of view in the industry, my argument is never be nice to me just because I'm older. I always say be nice to me because I have spending power. Because when you work in the industry, it's little like you saying. You created like London. Essentially, if you want to target somebody, you have to be inclusive of size and shape when it comes to clothing. You have to be inclusive of skin tone and type and texture and hair texture if you want beauty products. But actually, you need to be inclusive of bolder people as well because actually they have more money to spend than younger people as

well. Yeah. And it feels weird because it feels like in the beauty industry, they are the demographic that's being targeted, being bombarded with anti-aging, get rid of wrinkles, fine lines, crow's feet, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, erase your signs of life, right? And it feels like that's the demographic that's being targeted, but they're not the demographic that's represented in any of the marketing. Do you remember the fussing Kendall Jenner was the face of, oh my God, S-Day Lord's Advanced Night Repair? Yeah. And it's It's just like that was a joke. Like 23.

I feel like that was the last one. I feel like some companies do it really well. I think Oriel Paris do it really well. So they have Helle-Mirin and they have Susan Sarandon and things like that. But the fact that I can name one or two companies that do it well and even companies that think they're diverse aren't really diverse. It's quite shocking in 2022. I think that's part of the reason that your account and your content has done so well, apart from the fact that you have like tons of knowledge and you're super-induced.

to your science, aren't you? Like, you know the science behind everything to do with beauty, but that you're speaking to an age group that doesn't feel like they have anyone speaking to them. Yeah, that aren't included. It's a little bit like you would say you can't be what you can't see. And I was saying to you, Emma, when we first sat down, that, you know, I discovered you via Alex and I love your content because when I was growing up, I never saw myself reflected back and I think our bodies are really similar. and I just find you running through the beach and being so body positive really, really heartwarming and I wish I'd had it

when I was younger and your level of body confidence is something that I probably haven't even gone. I'm probably twice your age and I feel it's the same. I just feel that people just want to see themselves reflected back. I'm not frightened of dyeing my own roots and plucking my chin hairs

being seen without makeup on on Instagram because the chances are if you see it then everybody else feels the same way. really we're all the same really you know we've all got stretch marks and cellulite and once you get to a certain age you will have errant chin hairs and wrinkles and lines and age spots and there's no shame in it you just need to and then you and I will have the conversation about then we have that dichotomy of right okay so body positivity age positivity but we are in the beauty industry so but I just feel that all I want somebody to do is feel their best version of themselves and if I can help them and if I can cut through the BS and tell them what works and what doesn't because at my age trust me I know I've tried it all then that's a job well done yeah you make like a real like it's actually just listening to you realize how

you use like the fear of getting older which we all have because we're taught to have it because like you say like you lose relevance you don't see yourself anywhere you just like it's like we grew up in the era of the over 25s category on the X Factor like I can't get over the fact that I grew up thinking that people over 25 are like over the hill charyatric like in my head I'm like they're basically dead I don't know why they've bothered like why they're here tragic like roll them back to the old people say when they're like 26 they were the pity category weren't they literally like they were never going to win because they were just so past it it's like

over 25. But it's like we grow up in a world that like teaches us to fear being old so much. And it doesn't just ruin getting old. It also ruins the now because you just, there's so much pressure to like look your best and feel your best and then you feel like sometimes older people can say to you like, oh, I look back at photos of myself at your age and I thought, I never look better. And then you think, oh, fuck, I'm never going to look better than this. That's a shame because diet culture tells me that I have to look better. It's just a lot of pressure. It's very interesting because I remember both of you have created content saying I can't believe on all those summers I look back and said if I could just lose six pounds if I could just lose the stone well

trust me and I remember saying this to a mutual friend of ours Katie who used to work at hello and I remember when I first worked there she turned 30 and she came downstairs really grumpy really stunningly beautiful woman really grumpy oh I feel so old and I went if you hate yourself at 30 how are you going to come to terms of being 40 or 50 she's 50 now and I'm like and she looks back at me she goes you were so right you were so right, Nadine. And I do feel that there is that moment where age positivity is the same as body positivity where if you can accept the fact that you're never going to be perfect, you're never going to be the perfect age, you're never going to be the perfect weight. All you can do is accept

who you are and be the best version of you on that day. It's so important to come to terms with. It's actually a really important thing that I haven't thought a lot about, but even noticing people, like, on TikTok, it was like, someone put up a video being like, can someone come and collect the over 25s from the nightclubs please like they're past it and I was like oh my god what the fuck and then it was like all the comments from people over 25 being like but I lost three years because of COVID so you have two years so you have to let me out like well and they're like really fighting for their right to go out of 27 and it's just like what's happening but it's like I know that's the like youth culture and TikTok is just what the X Factor was and

whatever but it's so like I think so many women get into so there's so many reasons but it's a really big pressure to be like having your most fun in your 20s and being like a what is it who is it that sung that song that peter strounsand who sang that song about and she was 25 and it was a very desirable age to be i don't know whatever and you become really aware as you get older and get closer to 30 and i'm sure it's something that keeps happening is you get closer to 40 and 50 and 60 and whatever but where you hear about like desirable ages or you hear about songs and they say like oh she was 19 she was 25 she was this and then you just they stop they don't go she was 37 she was like 49 like they do stop at basically like 24 there's a really famous um i think it was a saturday night

live skit and generally i'm not a fan of saturday and live i like night live i don't find it particularly funny but there's this thing with i think it's amy schumer and a couple of other actresses and i can't remember who's there and there's julia lewis drafus and there amy schum is walking through the wood and she fills all these people having lunch together they're all celebrating and they're celebrating Julia Lewis Dreyfus' last, I think they describe it as, excuse my language, the last day that she's going to be fuckable.

And I think she's sort of about 40 or something in it. And it's basically, we're celebrating my last summer where I can be fucked because it's not going to happen after that. And it's so cleverly put together because you've got all these actresses who are still considered incredibly sexy, but basically saying we know that we've got a cutoff point.

And from now on, we're not going to be the girlfriend we're going to be their grandmother. There doesn't appear to be anything in between. But that is the horrible thing as well is that it feels like that ageism feels like a very gendered issue because it feels like really, unless I'm missing something.

Men are like completely untargeted by ages and if anything, it's like glorified for them aging whereas women are bombarded by it. Yeah, it's that trend on TikTok. It's like, I want your daddy. And then it's like, I want my daddy. And then it's like, I want your daddy too. And it's like all these things of like

how fit these men have gotten. old age. Yeah. It's like, imagine that the other way around. It's because I think we're hardwired to, the argument would be that we're hardwired as women to look for different characteristics that we find attractive in a man.

So rather than look for somebody who's pretty or has a certain body type, and you can see my eyebrows raising when I'm saying that. But so women would look for power, stability, strength, knowledge, money. All those things that women supposedly are hardwired to find attractive in men increases you get older or they certainly don't diminish as you get older. Whereas I think a lot of the things that men are hardwired to want in women diminish as you get older. And it's scary to think of it. And it's very interesting conversation because I was thinking about this the other day. I did a panel on hair thinning and you and I have just been having a chat

because she's just been, Emma's just been discovered that she's low in ferretin. And ferretin is a stored iron where you can lose your hair. And I was, I've discovered a whole host of things that were wrong with my blood tests and my hair was falling out during COVID and all that sort of stuff, not uncommon anyway, different topic of conversation. And we were talking about the fact that somebody was saying, why is it so hard for women to lose their hair, harder than men, and it's still hard for guys as well to lose their hair.

And I was saying there's something about thick, lustrous, gorgeous hair that is sort of hardwired to youth and fertility. And that's a whole other psychology level that's going on there that's so strange. Because let's be honest here, Jason Statham is one hot man and bald as. But can you think of a gorgeous bald woman? It's so strange. There's such a dichotomy going on there. It's so interesting as well because I think one half of that is like women's hair gets, thinner as they get older, but also women of a certain age are told to cut their hair short

because it's not becoming to have long hair. It's like, you can't wait. The age appropriate thing is so wrong. So bad. Like my mom's got the nicest hair. She's still got really thick. Like, she's got loads of hair and it's really thick and it grows crazy fast and she keeps, every time it gets to certain, she's always had it short for it since, like since I've been born. I think it was just like easy when she had kids and it looked really cool anyway, whatever. And then it's been getting longer and she keeps cutting it shorter. And every time it gets too long, she's like, oh, God, God, do I just look too, you know, old baggy? And it's like, what's happening?

You've got, like, we would kill to have hair that grows that fast. But, like, she keeps feeling like she's got to have it short. I mean, it does look really good short and whatever. But it's so weird. There's this, like, trope about women having long hair, and I don't understand it. There are so many age-appropriate things that, and I'm using, like, the air quotes there, age-appropriate things, you never, ever targeted a man. Yeah.

So basically, should you wear shorts? Should you wear mini-skirts? Should you retire the high heels? should you have a nice decent hair cut? Oh, they're new shorts all the time. I know. I know. They've always got their legs and their feet down.

Yeah, how many like Barracca's veins have you seen? Like, oh, my mom won't wear a bikini. She's always been more comfortable in a bikini than a one suit. Oh, she needs to come on holiday with me. And she will not wear a bikini. And I'm saying, but like, why? I'm too old. I can't do it.

And then she just needs to go on holiday to somewhere like Brazil or Italy or France. And I love that whole beach mentality where you've, just got different generations. I mean, go to, you know, Rio and you've just got whole generations walking around in a thong. Like so many wrinkly, saggy, normal buttons. It's amazing. Because it's so, like, if we're okay with seeing young people in a bikini, why are we

not okay seeing old people in a bikini? Like, why is that okay? They exist as well. I find it really empowering when I see older women. I quite like that. There's a part of me that rebellious grew up in the 70s. bit. I quite like those sort of sun-raddled women in the south of France in their poochy bikinis with their specks in their sort of open-top cars. I quite like that. They look, that skin

looks, yes, it looks speckled and it looks like a brown hen's egg, but oh my God, they look like they've had so much fun. I know I shouldn't admit to this, but that's literally all I aspire to. I get it. I'm just like, I want that. Like, I want to smoke like 40 margaret's a day. Jitaine, open top car. Just, yeah, I want to have, like, a visor. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And I would have blow drys all the time. Yeah.

Like, I think that's, I mean, I don't actually, actively, I think there's a lot of steps to get me from here to there. And I feel like, I don't know. It's not. It's just 30 years of having fun. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I love that. My mom wears a bikini. Yeah. And I'll be really gutted the year she stops. Like, I'll be really upset. I don't think it's going to happen because she likes the sun tan too much, but I'd be very disappointed. We just need to get her to grow her hair now.

and she'll be like Brigitte Bardot in the south of France. I love that look. I love that look. I think I like the short hair. I need to talk to her about it. I think, I don't know. I'd love to talk to you about it actually. I'm so funny though.

I haven't actually thought about that. The whole like old women can't have short hair, long hair. You should basically talk to your mum about aging, which is something I've never done with my mom. But I think I have a lot of friends who are 15 years younger than me, so they're in their mid-40s. I've just turned 60.

And I feel that I'm like a little bit like the Madonna in their life. I'm that old. a sister stroke, best friend stroke. Oh, okay, so she's talking about the menopause. She's talking about thinning air. She's talking about plucking her chin. She's doing all those things. She's walking around in a bikini in Ibiza for her birthday.

It's fine. So I give them the permission, simply by being, I give them the permission just to get old with grace. And I think with your mum's a really important figure in your life as is your dad, obviously. But I do feel like you need to have that conversation about your mum and say, you know, what was it like getting older? and do you feel older? Because the funny thing is, and it's such a cliche, is there does come a point where you will always feel sort of 35 inside. I think you sort of mature, you're mentally there at 35,

and then that's it. You'll always feel like you're 35 inside. So, fuck it. I mean, there's no alternative to getting older, so you might as well embrace it. And embrace it in the same way that you would, your hair type, your body type, your skin colour. Just, there's no fighting it.

You're never going to be the perfect age. I don't want to like speak for your generation because you're obviously living it. But I don't like, I just know from speaking to my followers sometimes that a lot of girls and securities have a lot of women our age have insecurities because they were projected onto them by their moms for their insecurities. And I feel like getting older is a part of that that we are watching as well. And I think that's a big part of like fearing it is it's not. necessarily nice watching our mum's struggle with getting older because it can be hurt like kind of hurtful in a way and like I think I said this to you when I first met you like I want to shake my mum sometimes because she doesn't like getting older and I'm just like but what's

the fucking alternative like I love you getting older because if you're not going to get older it means something's happened to freeze it and stop it and you've gone and then like that's the worst so I think there's a massive need for age positivity yeah I really do in the same way it's why Alex invited me onto your podcast because I just feel like we can talk about body positivity and we can talk about hair positivity and skin tone positivity and ableism and all those things that we need to do. But nobody appears to be saying there is literally no alternative to getting older. So you better make the most of it. It's almost like, you know, I'm telling everybody listening to this now. And I feel if I can do it in some small way and I feel the women that I've met

through the beauty industry, who I feel are beacons. I mean, like I remember meeting Jane Fonda and just thinking she was so empowering just to be in the presence of because she had such a fucking attitude that I just loved. And then when I met Dame Helen Mirren, you think about the older women that, you know, Alex and I have met through the beauty industry and stuff like that, just being in their presence, if I could give one bit of advice to anybody, it would be always have a friend that's sort of 15 to 20 years older than you, who's in a positive place in their life. and yeah if they have bad days and they're like oh god you know you have no idea how grateful you should be to be 30 or whatever you should turn around and say you've got no idea how grateful you should be 60 because the what i'm maybe looking back in my past i lost two really key friends in my life uh in their late 20s and one was just 30 and i feel like that did wake me up to that point of going tomorrow isn't promised here so yeah actually getting older is both an honor because

Some people don't make it. And it's tough because it is tough when you, you know, you look, start to fade and you, you know, dye your hair and all those things that we supposedly are negative about getting older. But there is no alternative. So I feel that if you can just hang around with different ages of people and have an honest open conversation, then simply by being around somebody who's 15 or 20 years older than you that's got life sussed and seems to come in a good, come from a good place, will make you feel better about getting older. And if Emma, your mum or Alex, your mum are listening to this, like, Try and be a positive role model to your children because I know what it's like. I mean, my mum has been yo-yo dieting and been on Weight Watchers and all that rubbish, slim sear and half a grapefruit, the classic 70s, my whole life. I know where I've got my body hang-ups from. You know, my sister had an eating disorder. I can see where it happens, but nobody's really talking about attitudes to age. And I think one of the things, my mom's now 86, she's incredibly dynamic.

She's a complete busy body. She's got her nose in everybody's business. She's still dancing. She's still going on holiday. You know, my dad died like 15 years ago. She's finished off two other boy, for instance then. I mean, she's a wildfire. I love it. But in a way, that's quite a good positive role model for all she's done about being on a constant diet since the 1970s. She's 86 and she's grabbing life by the balls. And I think everybody needs that image in their life of somebody who just says, I remember meeting Helen Meryn and interviewing her on camera at Cannes. She was there with Loreal. And she was literally, she had backed about people. So one minute, she had Sky and then she had the BBC. And then she had like, Rayuno, whoever. And I sat down and I had 10 minutes with her. And I thought, well, actually, I better introduce myself.

She's like, who the hell is this woman? So I sat down and I said, oh, hi, my name's Nadine. I've got a YouTube channel and it's for older women. And she sat down, she looked at me and we were being miced up. And she went forward to put her hand on my thigh. and she went, but you're not older. Because it's perspective, because she's 20 years older than me, 15, yeah, 15, 18 years older than me.

So it's all about perspective. So to those people on TikTok, you guys might be old because you're over 25. To me, you're young. Always hang around with people that can give you perspective. That's the important thing. You need somebody to look back at you and go, God, I remember being your age. It was tough because of this, this and this. But oh my God, it was great because of that because you can wake up in the morning

and look at that gorgeous collagen and I can see this. and have fun and have loads of sex and date loads of guys and all that stuff you can do when you're younger that maybe you wouldn't do when you're older. You just need somebody to give you a perspective. Yeah, I love that. And show the positive, yeah, like the positive side of ageing because I feel like we live in a society

that values women when they're attractive to men. Yes. Like that's their sole purpose, that's what we're going to... And can have babies. And can have babies. And then that's the whole menopause discussion. Right, exactly. And that's what my mum's taught to me a lot about

is how she felt like she was suddenly invisible. You know, she was always a really attractive woman. She is an attractive woman. She is a beautiful woman. She is really attractive. But she always felt like she was, you know, attractive and she kind of got a bit of attention. And she said like suddenly, it felt like suddenly she was invisible.

And she grew up in a world where she was talking about. taught to value attractiveness and like that's what the most important thing about her was. So I guess in that sense, like it's, it's difficult then to like see the other positives of ageing, which of which there are so, so many, right? The things that you mentioned like the, the, the, what men get from age, you know, they get stronger, why, that all happens to women as well. Women get wiser, right? The advantage of getting older are you do develop a fuck it attitude. You do. You absolutely do. Because once you are, you are, you are, you are, you are are no longer part of the male gaze, you know, which is absolutely classic. Once you're freed

from that, actually, it is quite liberating. So you don't actually have to conform to anybody's ideas of what's beautiful. You do become wiser, without a doubt. You do become much more financially stable. Like for every line on your face, there's a few thousand pounds in your bank account. And it will happen to you because you will. You'll get older. You'll peak in your 40s and 50s, you'll learn more money, all those things you can do, you'll be wise, you'll have more experience, you'll be much more at ease with yourself, there'll be less hunger to travel everywhere, you don't suffer from FOMO because you have been there, seeing it done, it got the T-shirt. And that's actually quite a calm, pleasant place to be in. People say that

loads of people have done studies, but people say that people's acceptance of who they are, acceptance of their body, their life, their general levels of how. happiness actually go up in your 50s and 60s. So you are happier and you are more content. I think it's partly because you accept that life isn't going to be perfect and you're not going to get everything you want. But yeah, you will be happier, you will be more confident and you will be more content. And if I, I would love to go out for the night with your mums and just like kind of shake them down and just go, I don't know what your mum looks like, but I know your mum is beautiful, Alex. But I mean, I'm sure your mum is beautiful. Or she wouldn't have

given birth to you. My mom's also amazing. Like I feel like I've done her dirty a bit with saying, you know, she doesn't like getting older in the kind of image-based thing. But my mum did her first Iron Man competition, which I don't know if you know, it's a two, it's a triathlon. How old was she? 50 when she did her first one. And she's done 10 over the last decade. So she's done one a year. So did her last one that literally like two weeks ago and three weeks ago. That's insane. And that's been like the single greatest inspiration in my life is it's like, and my mom hasn't had an easy life. Like not by a long stretch she's had so much loss like it's just beyond anything that's fair and I think like I

genuinely I don't know how she keeps getting up I don't know how she's got up every time and just been like kept going because I like I wouldn't be able to so she is unbelievable and the strength that she possesses it's like she gets stronger every year and watching her over the last I'm so happy she's done that was her last time now she's not doing anymore 63 no she's yeah she's 60 now. 61. So impressive. And it's been like the last 10 years and I don't know if she can see it in herself.

I really hope she can. But like, you know, she's always been strong because she's been my mum. But looking at her as an adult woman, looking at another adult woman, I'm like, fucking hell. Like this is unbelievable. That's such an achievement. This is beyond what, what anyone can do. You know, my husband does them and he's like 29 and he finds them exhausting with every single physical advantage in the world and she can't deny the fact that her body is aged you know she said it's like

every doctor she's spoken to is like oh my god like enough but you know they say you know you're I think her osteopath or doctor or someone said to her like your body is like a um it's like you've got a car your body's a car and you can either go out and drive it like handbrake corner around every turn and like health for leather go as fast as you want and you're just going to wear the pads out wear the brake pads wear everything out or you can drive it slowly and it'll last or whatever but eventually you know your mum is a handbrake turn she well she's sped up it's like she kind of maybe it was being married I don't know you know you know you know and I need to talk to her more about her whole life because her 20s sound amazing and then there's a kind of like her 30s and 40s

where she was my mum and that's the only way that I can perceive her but now I see her in her 50s and 60s and I'm like you're a fucking powerhouse and I don't know what she'll be do next but she'll do it with the same veracity and it's actually like i don't know if she can sit in herself and i hope that she can like the strength that she's like still on and upwards you know where most people slow down so i don't want to like do you know i know she gets up like i know you know in the same way that like women get upset about you know not looking how they used to look or being past it or whatever i think that's something that should focus on from like a physical side but I you know an aesthetic side but from her insides and and looking

as another person you know you think of yourself aesthetically but when you look at another person you don't see their aesthetics really you see them as a whole person you see their heart and their soul and the fire in them and whatever and anyone looking at my mom is like fuck me like you're unbelievable and she doesn't look it's not it's not even age it's just like and it that's a real inspiration in a really odd sort of way like in that because I I hate that She hates getting older. But then at the same time, it's like, but getting older suits you so much. Like, look at all the cool stuff you're doing.

I mean, I don't think aging is easy. No. Because you do have to give up things, but you do gain things in the process. Yeah. And I think anybody that's 60 and can do an Iron Man, like kudos to them. I mean, that's just mind-blowingly brilliant. I wouldn't have been able to do that at 16, let alone at 60, or 26 or 26 or 26 or whatever. But she learned to ride a bike pretty much at 49.

and I just I like that's actually I didn't appreciate it at the time I was 17 when she like learned to ride a bike and I don't think I appreciated how brave it was for her to get up having never done any exercise in her life and literally she's like she'd have found her just like on a beach in Zach and Doss with her sister smoking lots of cigarettes being really sometime and drinking everything and then being mom and then to just get up and do something completely. new. And to do it in a public forum as well. Those things are public events. Like, people queue up and watch them. So it's not like I'm just going to fail on my own in the garage with a Pilates piece of Pilates Equipment. If I fail, I'm going to fail publicly. I mean, that takes such

balls. I'm so impressed. She came third in her age category and the iron man just gone, got up on the stage, got a medal. Amazing. What does your mum do that's impressive? Apart from the fact, she's obviously a great mum. Well, I mean, I think I'm always in awe of the fact that she's

had five kids and managed to do that and bring us all up fairly well and to create a really close family because you're unbelievably close to your family she must hold

she's like mumma hair she must be the heartbeat of your family she absolutely is we flock to her we like she's like a magnet we're all obsessed with her and I think yeah that's really cool the relationship that she has with her kids is unusual

but in a really good way because we do have this special bond but then you know I want to give something as well that's outside of having of being a mum because I feel like that but the thing is with my mum with having five kids and five kids all so close together as well we were all under six five of us under six

I mean that is a full time job it's a full more than a full time job and also I feel that you're looking for something else is actually more of a judgment on the fact that we don't really value how important how important creating a family is. Yeah, you're right. I mean, to do that and do that well is the most important thing you can probably do. For me, it's my mum's just, my mum has a zest for life.

She has so much more physical energy than I do. Even at 86, I mean, she's like I said, she's like world's whirlwind busy body. I mean, if you don't get it before 9 o'clock at the morning, she's out of the house. She doesn't hang around. Really? Oh, yeah, crazy. She's always looking for everybody to go on holiday with. She's got a new boyfriend.

She's about to go on holiday with. You know, all her boyfriends really need to do is to be able to drive and dance and she's fine. She'll be out there, line dancing. I feel that's what you're going to be like. Really? Oh, I know. I think she's got more energy than I have now. Yeah, it's impressive.

I'm a bit of a human sloth. I'm more mental energy than physical energy. Hence the fact I'm really impressed by your mum. I want a line dancing. Yeah? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.

That sounds fun. I hook you out with my mum. Yeah. I'm sold. I'm sold. But that fuck it attitude that that you talk about with your mum I think like that's because you've got you do have a fuck it attitude as well don't you? Yeah and that's what I love about you. That's what you get with age definitely. I was never like that when I was your age. I was the person who was always worried about everybody what somebody thought of me or or I was very aware of

my background, my education, the way I looked in magazines. We, I mean looking at you Alex we know how tough magazines can be they can be so elitist did you go to the right university are you wearing the right clothes it do you have your hair cut at the right place i think i was so conscious even in my late 20s 30s without doubt and then i felt my confidence grow with each year as i went through my 40s and 50s to the point where eventually you will have to just say fuck it what do you do otherwise just disper under a rock it's crazy that would be a sad state of affairs i can't wait to press the fuck it button Me too.

I feel like you two already have, which is why I'm so impressed by both of you. I think I flick it occasionally. I think I'm like on off and then I'm like off. I want to just get to the point where I just like both hands just fucking lean on it. And I'm just like, that's my life now. So I'll press on it. And then when I'm a bit tired, I'm like, oh, I'll come off it a bit. I think that's human nature though.

Yeah. You know, we all have our moments where we go, oh, God. But I tell you what it is for me, right? Yesterday I was prepping. I've just moved house and I was preparing the spare bedroom. and I've got a mirrored bedside table and it was covered in fingerprints because somebody had moved it

so I got out the sort of window lean and I was window leaning at the top of it and then I looked down into it and I saw my face full forward I thought I must never get on top ever again because there is that moment where you go oh my God I've aged but then also so as my boyfriend

I mean we're all aging at the same way sometimes I feel like and this is what I'd say to both your mum sometimes I feel like they think they're the only person that's getting older everybody's getting older at the same rate along with them. That's so true.

Your boyfriend's getting older too. I want to ask you a question that we did touch on during our life, but I'm interested to hear more of your perspective on this. Is that I'm wondering how, knowing what you know now about ageism and being as well informed on it as you are also meant to say to you before, it's so true that no one is talking about age positivity because I typed into Google before. And I was like, oh, I must have typed in the wrong word

because nothing came up. No. Oh, I've type of... Age Concern. The charity is called age concern, which is a bit worrying because... It doesn't sound happy, it doesn't sound good, does it?

No. No. Would you call a body positivity? Body concern. Body concern. That would be so badly named. Or melanin concern. Or, you know, you just wouldn't, would you?

It's crazy. Age concern sounds really ageist to me. We need to rebrand age concern. And also, again, I don't feel like age. age concern even targets people like me when I mean it's very funny so when I started my YouTube channel my agent made me join Facebook and I hate Facebook with a vengeance but that's where older women are so that's where your target is and I had to go in and reset my age on it

because it kept feeding me incontinence pads and funeral plan ads down the side I'm like and that was 50 at the time I'm like thanks a lot that's what's happening I'm what I'm going to worry about being incontinent or dying and covering my funeral costs for my family at 50. I mean, that's the equivalent of Simon Cowell with his 25 plus group. It's crazy. I just feel that at the end of the day, that whole putting people into boxes because of their age is crazy. It's just madness. Yeah, totally. Yeah, mum keeps being advertised stair lift. Yes, stannis. I'm like, you've never seen a woman go up the stairs as fast as my mom. Her next job will be putting in staircases, rather, or stair lifts, for God's sake, yeah.

Yeah, I just get targeted baby stuff constantly. Yeah, well, I bet you do, yeah, that would be, and people asking you outright. Oh, yeah, it's just really shocking, yeah. But the question I want to ask you is, so then knowing or you know about it, how do you reconcile then that with working in the beauty industry? And that is no judgment because, as you know, because I do too. But I wonder from your perspective how you managed to sort of reconcile that. Because I do think it's getting better.

Do you? Yeah. Yeah. Things have come a long way from Isabella Rossellini being sacked at the age of whatever she was, 37, because she was too old for Longcom and then her signing them back at, signing her back at 57 or whatever they did. I think the world, and funnily enough, I do think it's the big corporations that do the best job. So I do think as a group, the L'Oreal group, do a really good job. And it's why I'm quite proud to work with them when I do.

So I think L'Oreal Paris do a really good job. Longcom do a really good job. I think they are pushing diversity and including age diversity, let alone skin tone diversity and all that sort of stuff as much as possible. I actually think the beauty industry has more of a problem with body positivity

and skin positivity than it does age positivity. Because I do think things are changing, but they're never changing fast enough. No. But I feel like if you're a lone voice as a beauty expert and I'm a lone voice as a beauty expert, then so what, I'll just be the first person to land my, you know, flag on that planet.

And what's really cool, I think, is you are changing it from the inside because you are someone who does hold a lot of weight within the beauty industry and you're talking about this stuff and, like, shedding a light on it, and I think that's really cool. Yeah, when I first started my YouTube channel, I was 54, I'd been a journalist for the better part of 25, 30 years. I'd been a TV presenter, so sitting in front of a camera, chatting to people, writing features was never difficult.

The only difficulty was learning to light myself and mic myself up and then coming to terms, very interesting because I'm getting older on camera and I can see myself getting older. I can see myself from my first YouTube channels to now the six years and what it's done and very kindly said I look good for my age. But that's what 60 looks like nowadays. I mean, I know how to make the best of myself. I know all the tricks in the trade, let's be honest here.

I've written about them for years. And so for me, I have to have a voice because I feel that. that, and I was guilty of this when I was younger, what the hell does anybody who's 30 know about anti-aging or about what works on wrinkles or sun damage or sagging skin? They don't know because they don't have it. Just as you couldn't advertise it as a journalist, really, you can't talk about testing these things. The amount of companies that still flog sun damage products or fine line products or whatever wrinkled products on young people is still really shocking. another question that's sorry um

that's just come to me quickly is is saying someone looks good for their age is that a compliment because does not imply I take it as a compliment but I'm pretty hard to offend I'm the generation that's fairly hard to offend because I say that to people I go out with Benny Hill right like come on we're pretty hard to offend

but I do feel is I will always say to somebody thank you very much but this is what 60 looks like yeah someone said I look good for my age the other day and I thought that was that's pretty weird yeah And I always think the way to know if what you're saying is offensive, and again, no judgment. We've all said and thought offensive things in the past is, would you say to somebody, you look really good for your weight? Or you look really good for your skin tone or you look really good for somebody in a wheelchair.

Right. That's shocking, right. So why would you say to somebody you look really good for your age? You just look really good. Yeah. I wasn't offended. I was just more like confused. What can they possibly mean?

because everybody looks good at 28. That's the point of being 28. Of course I look good for now. Like, come back in 10 years and say that and then I can take it as a compliment. But at the moment, it sounded almost like surprise. I don't know. It was really weird.

It's a very interesting thing, though. And even, like, finding, you said you see that you're aging on camera, like from your YouTube stuff. I can see it from my, and I see it in loads of ways. I see loads of ways. My body's changed since, like, having, because obviously we've been on social media.

I mean, it's kind of weird for us because we've been on social media. been on social media since I was 12 so like if I go I know so if I go surprising you're as sane and grounded I know normal as you are thank you um thank you you don't know me well enough um if like looking back at like my and I don't use Facebook anymore but you know like I can see aging and it's kind of weird it's like looking at a family photo album with all my I don't know is it's odd like looking but it's kind of all I've ever known looking from like 12 to 18 or whatever whenever I stopped using

Facebook but even using Instagram as a job or just being like in public or having a record of myself existing online which thanks to my job like there is a big record existing of my life it's really weird even to have like and this isn't exclusive to people who work online this is just getting all that but it's really weird to be associated with like the who you were and seeing yourself like the changes I don't know it's like public record of aging isn't it's weird yeah it is a It's a weird thing and it's like, obviously it's fine. I've decided I think I probably would like to have a little bit of Botox to pick up the side of my eyebrows, a tiny bit. Because I've noticed that my eyebrows have started coming down and it is the stupidest thing that I've noticed.

But I think I look at myself all the time and my eyebrow lady, she's not got a lot of, she's like one of, she's a really good friend that she's not got much tact. She was like, you're getting older. I was like, I know. But thank you. But you just, you notice really silly little things in your. Inverted comments. You notice things in yourself. And you can just compare yourself to your,

it's not even like you compare to other people on social media. You compare to you on social media. Ten years ago, we would not be having this conversation. The only people that had a public record of the majoring were famous people. Yeah. So anybody that had a career on TV or films or in magazines, they're the only people, like models, actors, whatever, TV presenters. Nowadays, everybody has a public record.

why I think your generation are going to have to be so careful because genuinely for me to dig out pictures of me at 18, 19, 20, 21, I've got to dig out old pictures that I picked up from snappy snaps and boots. Like I've got to go into the loft, find them, open them up. I haven't just got to flick through my phone and go, yeah, here's a reminder what you were doing this day 10 years ago or whatever. So I just think it's going to be really hard for your generation because you're so public facing so for everybody there's just this record of getting older

I already find it hard aesthetically and I don't care about getting old I like being older I've been like I don't I don't feel any I feel an apathy to getting older because there's fuck all I can do about it it's happening whether or not I'm going to enjoy it or not so just like fuck it

but it is weird like even looking at photos of myself and I'm like God I looked so good and it's like and you kind of have to like make the piece of the fact that you can't you probably won't get back there because I probably I'm not going to be 21 again like I'm just I'll just make my piece of that I'm not going to be 21 and that's fine but it's like that's a really weird thing to be doing so early and I think a lot of people of our generation are having to do this because like you say the public record we're

having to do it earlier whereas I think like my mum would say like oh I just looked up one day and I was 45 yeah 40 yeah and I was like oh god how did that happen but for us it's like time hop remember last year do you remember last year do you remember last year it's like oh god I remember last year again. And it's just like, I don't know, we're constantly reminded of this like, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. And I think you're right. Like, I think that's going to be quite already.

It's something that's quite challenging, even though I seem to not care about getting older. I also seem to massively care about getting older. I also think the thing about ageism, and I think one of the reasons that most of us are agist unless we check ourselves, again, is that genetic hard wire that ageism means illness and death. Let's be honest here. We can't skirt around the fact that getting older. is a slow, slippery step to not being around anymore.

And if you've been around anybody and you've seen them get older and you maybe seen them have dementia or you've seen somebody get older, see the grandparent. There's both a grace and a sort of finite journey that's going on. So there's a reason. It's hard to say, but we are genetically hardwired to be attractive to youth because youth is healthy. It's healthy.

It's life. It's fertility. It's all those things that we're, we're hardwired too like. There is a reason that you go up to a child and almost want to pinch that gorgeous collagen, that gorgeous skin. I know.

So there is a reason that we're hardwired to like it and to like symmetry and all those things that we're, you know, that the evolutionary biologists will tell you that we're hardwired to like. So I think there's a hardwiring to why we're ageist. It's because I think we're frightened of getting older

because we're frightened of getting on well and dying. But I just think if I like that apathy, I quite like that neutrality. There's nothing wrong with, you don't have to actually necessarily be, yeah, I can't wait to get old. But at least if you just accept the fact that it's inevitable, in some ways, it's a definite honour to get old because a lot of people don't make it. And if you can just be apathetic about it, I think apathy's got a lot going for it. There's no problem with apathy. We've been like, totally not too.

Bridget James. How old was Bridget? But like she gave me such a complex, like 30. Yeah, and on over the hill. Yeah. I remember the Carrie Bradshaw thing was she was massively upset when she had to tick the 35 box. So when she turned 35, she had to tick the 35 to 45 box. So she was no longer in the 25 to 35 box.

And I remember that because I am absolutely, that's my generation. So I'm the same age as all of those girls. So I completely get it a little bit older than Sarah Jessica Parker, who interestingly enough is one of the few celebrities I've ever interviewed who you can tell absolutely has not had an ounce of work. Right. Not an ounce of work. No. And the reason I say that is because it's so shocking to see somebody who,

because Alex and I will know this, you basically go and interview a celebrity and then, especially when you work for a magazine like, hello, you basically just suspend disbelief. It's like going to the movies. Whatever you tell me is going to be the truth. Yes, we know it's all exercise and water. Fine, right, right?

Yeah, whatever. Fine, whatever. But I remember saying to her, actually, I was going to have, I have a tiny bit of baby Botox. I was going to have my Botox tweet. because one of my eyebrows had gone up a bit weird. Be careful. Your eyebrows can't go up a bit too far.

I talked about my eyebrows. It's just the end. Yeah. It was not for a little while. I was looking a little bit jack-necress. I remember her telling me off for having Botox. She did. She would she say.

Yeah. She was like, you don't need it. Like, except who you are, you're fine. Like, you know, and I remember looking at thinking, actually I can tell she's not. And it was in a way, both empowering and slightly shocking. Yeah. That she'd not had it. The other one, I think, I suspect it's not had an ounce of work,

although she might have a little bit of work done downtime to remove it is Julia Moore another woman that you just want to spend so much time around incredible and it's a really cruel thing that the world does where and they've always done it with female comedians where you can't be funny and pretty and I think like a lot of women a lot of female comedians kind of just have to really lean into like they're not giving a fuck because I don't know because the world's mean to them but I always think Joe Brown's absolutely hilarious as well and I love watching these women get older because if anything, they give less fucks that older they get.

I'm like, I didn't think it was possible, but here you go. Like, oh my God, Joanna Lumley, I want to be her best friend. I mean, for me, see, I'm a sucker for the glamour, the glam. I'm partly hardwired into liking, hence the, you know, Susan Sarandon, Julianne Moore, but yeah, I mean, Joanna Lumley. I remember being really shocked because she's older than me. I mean, I'm a fairly similar age to Jennifer Saunders.

who I think Jennifer Saunders and, yeah, brilliant, absolutely brilliant. And Dawn French, they're both aging brilliantly and I love both of them. And I follow them both on social media, not that they post very often. But I remember finding out that being really shocked looking back, because this is something that I'll speak to both your mum's directly about. There does come a point, no matter how much I talk about being positive about aging, where you do find yourself Googling people's ages and doing that slightly sort of comparative, oh, I think quite good.

what's that person? And then the funny thing is is finding that Joanna Lumley was like 42 or 43 when she made Ab Fab. Was she? But yet we're somehow thinking she's like 60 because there's this constant joke

that she's a bit mutiny and she's just being a bit naughty and she's sort of, there's this thing, there's this classic scene where she's trying to get off with Idrisal where he's this young male model at a party. And then you find her actually she was about 44 or 45 when she made her fadry.

That is absolutely. In my head she's like... 60. She's probably 70 now but in your head she's like... And also this... And talking about body positivity that image of Jennifer Saunders is constantly saying she was fat in it

and you're just like I love Ab-Fab because it was I grew up with it and it's amazing but those messages that you're sending out where you're going that's madness one, you're portraying her as being old and she's not old and you're portraying yourself as being fat and unattractive

and you're not that either. It's crazy right? It's not. nuts, but it's still so funny. Do you know what? I'm annoyed that we've used up so much time because I feel like skincare. I haven't even...

Oh, skincare. Listen, skincare is easy. Skincare works. Never let anybody tell you it doesn't work. There are just four things you need to do, and I'm telling you now as a woman that grew up in the 60s and 70s, and I'm listening to both your moms at this moment at this moment in time. Okay,

wear an SPF. Oh my God. I wore an SPF on my face. Every day down onto my neck, my face looks good. My chest is ravaged because I never took the SPF down onto my chest, right? Okay. It does moisturise the with SPF count? Yes, absolutely 100%. Don't believe anybody, those derms that tell you you have to wear an SPF 50 every single day.

Don't be ridiculous. You do not need to wear an SPF every single day. If you live in London, if you live in a fairly dark, dismal climate most of the time, you do not. An SPF in your moisturiser is enough. I would say don't sunbathe, but that's hard. but, you know, because it's so much fun going on holiday and drinking and having fun. But wear an SPF. Just wear an SPF and take it from your hairline down to your nipples every single day

because your chest will age faster than any other part of you, especially if you've got boobs, lucky you. And then you just need three things. You need three things. You need a really gentle rinse off cleanser and use a cloth with it to get rid of your makeup. You need a vitamin C and you need a vitamin A and you need a vitamin A. And that is it. Nothing else. So vitamin A is retinol at night. Vitamin C in the morning is protective. That's it. Don't spend a lot of money on it 20 years ago. You would have had to do that. Now you can go to Boots, Superdrug, you can buy the Inky List, you can buy the ordinary, you can buy Bioma.

There are so many great budget brands. So unless you've got a problem skin, you basically put, you cleanse in the morning, you put a vitamin C on, you put an SPF moisturiser on. And at night, you cleanse, you put a vitamin C on at night if you need it again, and then you use vitamin A at night. That is it. All you're putting back into your skin. Yeah.

And all you've basically, and sometimes you don't even need C at night, because that would be for pigmentation slightly. But basically, vitamin C is naturally found in the skin, but it diminishes with age. Vitamin A is naturally found in your skin. It diminishes with age. You do not need some obscure ingredient plucked by virgins as the sun's coming up in a jar covered in cellophane

that costs hundreds of pounds. It's all a massive lie. You just don't need it. There was a time when you had to spend a lot of money on great skincare, and if you've got the money and you enjoy it, good. Go for it. I had no judgment at all, but you can get amazing high street skincare. That revolution has happened in the last 10 years and it has made affordable

skincare available for everybody. That's all you need. You basically need to cleanse, protect SPF and then cleanse and repair at night. That's it. That's it. If you find something that works for you, do you just stay with that? Yeah. Your skin doesn't get used to it.

Don't believe that. Your skin never gets used to. Your skin changes every 20, you completely turns over every 28 days anyway. The only other things I'd add into it is if you've got problems, skin. So if you've got breakouts, you need salicylic acid to put on your spots at night, or if you've got pigmentation, you can put in niacinamide, another B vitamin. But they're all things that are found naturally in your skin. You know, they just are. You don't overcomplicate it, and you don't need a million different steps, and you don't need weird and wonderful stuff.

Like, hyluronic acid is a perfect case in point. It's a super trendy ingredient. It locked water into your skin. It's a sugar that's found naturally in your skin. Yes, it's great if you can have it, but it should already be in your moisturiser. It should already be in your foundation and your lipstick. The fact that companies are just telling you about it is a bit of a marketing con. It's already been available for years. And I hate hyalronic acid serums. I hate them. The secret is look for a milky one. If you look for one that is clear, it'll be dry and sticky and not very nice. But the minute they put glycerin or a few lipids in it, it'll be lovely. Is that the pixie glow? Is that hyaloric? No, that's an acid. That's a resurfacing acid. So that's for

breakouts or if you've got like, you know, blackheads or that sort of stuff. Nice. I started using an antibacterial spray and it's like changed my skin it was amazing which one clini sooth yes clinicept and clinissooth are hyperchloric acid yeah which is essentially a diluted bleach whoa no big no but it's fine it's completely safe you can put it on your skin uh you can use it on open cuts wounds i tell you what i use it for i very rarely change my earrings because i've got i've invested in diamond earrings so i basically never wear um fashion earrings and because i don't change them they can get a bit sort of gunky and horrible. Spray, clean or soothe on your ears, back and front,

on your piercings, nose piercings, ear piercings. Occasional breakouts, absolutely brilliant. Yeah, because I train a lot when I, like, and when I was sweating, like, just constantly have bad skin. Put them in your trainers, your trainers will stop smelling. Wow. Yeah, because I also get breakouts, and Alex, my husband gets him on the back of his neck when he's training, just from where you sweat.

And it's like been transformative. I've never. Absolutely amazing. Okay, that's really good. Yeah. But essentially what it is, a really diluted bleach, but it's safe enough to use on your skin. Don't worry about it. You could use it on knees if you kind of, or if your mum's doing Iron Man and she falls off

and scrapes her leg, you can use it straight away. It's completely fine. Amazing stuff. Speaking of bleach, is there anything to get fake tan off? Because I've tried everything. I've tried a, like I've tried it all. Astatone AHAs. Nothing removes it. 20% glycolic overnight is the only thing that'll even come close yet. And it needs to be glycolic because as we know, it's the smallest molecule so it gets into the skin and you do need to sleep in it. But also, can I just say, right, sitting here now, looking at your lovely, snow white milky white. Why the hell? I don't understand people's obsession with getting a tan anymore.

I've got a real obsession with being tan, like a real obsession. The times I used to see you with orange ankles and I don't understand it because I'm looking at your skin, right? Literally, it's like it. I don't like it. I know. We never want what you've got. And I think that's something I've got off my mum as well. She's always tan tan. It's a 70s thing. Sorry, we're all guilty of. it. My generation are all ready of it. Can I ask some more questions? Of course you can. Just about facials. Yeah. Facials's good. Should we be getting facials? Like, is there...

If you've got the money to spend, enjoy them. But if they're, and if they're not belts and buckles, they're a waste of money. So they're all about... So if you have a facial and, you know, it's all very pleasant and lovely on you're getting a massage and you're enjoying it, then you're paying for the enjoyment. You're not paying for the efficaciousness of it because it all just washes off your face and why would you spend all that money? So they don't, they're not like... They're not doing anything transformative to your face. to what you need is a belt and a buckles facial. Sorry about that. I.e. what you need is some machinery. You need an acid peel. You need some extraction. It needs to be mildly uncomfortable because that's when you'll get a result from it. But again, only if you've got the money to do it. Don't save up and spend hundreds of pounds on a facial. Madness. Because you might as well

spend that on a really good cleanser, moisturiser, SPF, vitamin C, vitamin A at night. And then if you want, if you've got congested skin, which you say you have, a really good acid to use on it. So, for example, looking at you now, if you say you suffer from breakouts and your boyfriend suffers from breakouts, the one thing I'd recommend would be a 2% beta hydroxy acid, a salicylic acid at night.

Three times a week, transform your skin. Salicylic acid, DME. It's fine. Paulus choice, 2% BHA. Paulus choice. Your boyfriend could put it on the back of his neck, you know, three times a week. It would transform his skin.

He won't place me for, like, outing him for having, like, spots on his back. Listen, we're out. I'm outing my mum for killing off two people since my dad died. Your mum for not wearing a bikini and your mum for hating getting older. We're all human. And as I said, right at the top of this podcast, again, no judgment. We're here to talk about ageism and being agist.

I was ageist when I was younger. I think it's hardwired into a lot of us. It's just a fear. I think most judgment and most sort of for whatever you would call it. So that sort of idea of being frightened of somebody or judging somebody always comes from a place of fear. So if you're racist, ageist, sexist, generally deep down inside, it's hard to imagine it. That person is frightened of that person for whatever reason. So men that are sexist tend to be frightened of the power of women.

People that are racist just come from a place of ignorance because they're frightened of somebody being, having equal power to them, or equal access to power. And I think if you're ageist, you're just frightened of getting older. So we need to cut people slack. I get it. We're just trying to like connect and engage and like make. Yeah. And it's like I said, this needs to come with inside saying no judgment here from the 60 year old woman.

She was ages once too. I have loved this conversation. I have loved this so much. I could just talk to you for hours, Naduil, honestly. I will be the token older woman in both your lives. There you go. And not only that, I want to go out with both your moms in a bikini, get drunk. You will.

That would be amazing. My mom. You will have so much fun with my mom. Honestly, you go on a night out of my mom. I feel like I'd get on with most people. And my mum loves you because you've very kindly given her a lot of skincare advice as well. You're very generous with that. If I get to see them in real life, I turn up with real skincare as well.

So that's even better. It's bribery for people to become friends. The only way you can make friends when you're 60, you bribe them with beauty products. Thank you so much for Dean. Absolutely love challenge. And I love both your content. It's amazing. Please come back.

Well done. You too. Should I delete that is part of the ACAS creator network. Thanks.