Should I Delete That? - Healing things we're ashamed of with Megan Rose Lane

Episode Date: April 9, 2023

This week the girls are joined by mentor, coach and Instagram icon Megan Rose Lane. Megan shares her incredible wisdom, with a particular focus on the shadow self and what that means to her. She explains that all growth and understanding, whether with oneself or others, comes first from compassion. Follow Megan on Instagram @megan_rose_laneFollow us on Instagram @shouldideletethatEmail us at [e-mail] & edited by Daisy GrantMusic by Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The whole point of coming to this earth as a human in a body is that we get to fuck up, make mistakes and learn and grow. And I really think the whole point of our existence is to learn and grow. Hello, welcome to the Should I Delete That Podcast. I'm M. Clarkson. And I'm Alex Light. Never not satisfying. I know, so satisfying. It's so newsreadery. I love it.

Like, on TikTok, if you... Get me a two-piece. Yeah. On TikTok, the newsreader... Well, you know, I love newsreader TikTok. And it's just so satisfying to hear people speak in that voice. I'm living on Toto Talk,

but more broadly, F1, TikTok. It's the best place on the internet. Between that and the sunshine, that's my good. I just... When I'm inside, I'm looking at F1 talk, and when I'm outside, there's daffodils and sunshine. This, life does not get better than this for me, personally. You're thriving.

I'm trying to slow-mo shots of drivers shaking their champagne bottles and winking at the camera. I mean, it's literally what I was born for. Like, oh my God, I am so deep in the wormhole that is Max Verstappen's childhood. I feel so sorry for him. Do you? Are you kidding?

No, I don't know anything about him. Oh my God, okay, this is so boring for you all that doesn't care. I'll send you some stuff. His dad's so mean. So mean. Does that explain how he is now? Yeah. Okay, okay.

It's so sad. Anyway, they've really, to see, they're pulling up my heart. You're in the wrong TikTok. I'm going to get you in my TikTok. Every bad person has a backstory, right? Unless you're a psychic past. It's the villain origin story. Yeah.

And you've seen the Putin one, haven't you? Like, it's that montage of every time. Vladimir Putin's gone to shake hands with someone and they've left him hanging. Like that is his villain origin story. Like he's just been just been embarrassed enough times and he's just gone like apocalyptic with his rage. I mean that is devastating. I know.

Well, is it devastating and after wage war and I don't know. I don't know. I'm being left hanging is very painful and very mortifying. Oh God. I'm so happy that I'm out of my. Hand-shaking era. I seem to just, I seem to just go for the hug quick enough

that I blindside everybody. Bam. Got me. Well, yeah, that, do you know what? That's a good method, actually. That's a good way to go. Don't give,

don't leave anything up to chance or to anyone else. No, no, no, no, don't trust anyone. What's good, please, this week for you? My good is to do with TikTok. I am obsessed with rich people on TikTok. There is a whole side of TikTok to just dedicated to rich people, like, showing their rich lives. And it is insane.

Like, really rich. Unbelievably rich. Like, this girl was like, oh, I just thought I popped to Corchavelle for the weekend. On her private jet, on her parents' private jet, she was like, oh, we get a helicopter from the airport to the resort because it's the fastest way. Oh, wow. So it's like the rich kids of TikTok? Yes. Right.

And then I've written down. I've written down what she bought for her dog for her birthday. Okay, you ready? Is Betty in the room before you read this out? No, of course not. My God, she'd be devowed. Because I'm not being funny, we all remember that for Christmas day

got you a packet of quavers. I think that should be fresh in everyone's mind before you read this out. And quilted toilet roll on a kiche, but yes. Also, an off kish. All her dog's birthday. She bought him. Two Montclair jackets.

A daimonte, mu-muh harness, a gold Prada collar, and two Gucci sweaters. I mean, that's never been more apt. Look, I once bought a Swarfsky crystal collar, and I don't want to talk about it, okay? It was so tacky. Oh my God, that's gross. You did not know her in that era. She glittered. It was fantastic.

It was orange and sparkly. It was awful. On the two Montclair jackets. Two Montclair jackets. I mean, do. I mean, theoretically, obviously, Monclair do make jackets for dogs. And they must...

The designers must have been like, surely not. No one's fucking stupid enough to buy this. And then the day of the first sale came in, they were like, oh my God, she's bought two. She's bought two. It is outrageous what people spend the money on. I mean, no judgment, but it is outrageous.

No judgment, but we are judging you massively. So much judgment. Like, it's a dog jacket at the end of it. Honestly, like, Bua, oh, Bua could never. She just rock, I mean, Betty could never. No. They would treat it with absolutely zero respect. And you know what, I would respect them for that?

Because they'd be like, we're dogs. He's stupid fucking idiot. Yes. We don't care to have a fucking Montclair jacket. We don't care for Montclair. A Diamante Miu Harness, that's what got me the most, honestly. I was just like, and also it wasn't a dog that, like, fit a Diamante Mimu harness. It's like a... Is it not a chihuahua?

No, no. He was like a... I want to say like a Frenchie, but maybe like a posh version of a Frenchie. No amount of Diamante is going to make that, you know. Yeah, it didn't work. It didn't work. No. They're not boozy dogs. They're just naughty to be.

Bucci. They're good characters, but they're not like PJ dogs. P.J. Private Jet. What's like the most expensive dog breed? Because that's what she should have had. I want to say like a Chow Chow. Frenchies are expensive, aren't they? Oh my God, they are really expensive. Samayeds, Chow Chow Chow's, Bulldogs, Rottweilers are expensive. A mastie... Yeah. There you go. Anyway. So that's my good, is that it is giving me a pure escapism and it's wonderful. It's outrageous and it's quite gross

but it's also escapism it's finest. What's your good? Oh, you've done your good. Yeah, I've done my good but I have another good which bred my awkward so I went to go and have

my mummy MOT this week which is basically where a... I can't recommend it enough to anyone that's had a baby but I mean it should be free on the NHS but don't get me started. Well, it should be free. It just should be available. It should be more readily accessible.

It's mad. Anyway. They go and they basically look at your pelvic floor, look at, if you've had a cesare and scar, they look at that area, they look at your abs and see how, like, they're doing because, like, my abs on the bottom have come back together, but my abs on the top haven't.

So I've got, like, physio to, like, bring them back together. I've got, like, stuff to be doing to massage my scar, because I've got quite a lot of scar tissue, so, like, and there's loads of options, which is so good, actually, because I totally, you know, after your six-week appointment, you're like, okay, bye, with the doctor, and then you're just kind of like, well, this is me now.

And like no biggie, and particularly from an aesthetic standpoint, and I was like, well, you know, I've just had a baby, so what do I expect? But there is a bit of my scar that I was like, it's a kind of like odd distribution of like skin and fat. And that's just like how it is now. But I was talking to her and she said, no, you have options. You can have like a lymphatic treatment to like kind of break up the scar tissue. And like, so it was really good.

Like, I really liked it. Amazing. As part of the exposure. Oh, also I can go running in three weeks. So, ah. But anyway. Um, so good. But they, um, as part of the experience, they test your pelvic floor. Now, I don't want to show off listeners, but my pelvic floor is currently testing a four out of five, which I was, I know, I was pretty, pretty chuffed with. She's pushing me for five out of five and I'm just like, look, I'm never, I'm a four out of five girl through and through. Like, I, I don't hear four out of five and think, I must get to five out of five. I think, oh, I've got wiggle room here. Like, this could be so much for hers.

So I'm not doing great. But as part of the testing process, she gets her little finger, not her little finger. She gets her index finger with a glove on. Go on. Well, we go up. Yeah. She's a really nice woman. Like, I had a really nice time with her.

But it goes up, right? And she's like, I'm 10th. No, no, no. Actually, the worst bit is, is she goes, you're lying on the bed, legs up, Fanny L butthole out and she looks she goes at the end

of the bed and she just looks and she goes okay can you just make the motion that you're holding in a fart

and she's at the end of the bed and she's just watching my butthole contract for the end of the bed I was like

oh okay so I to do that ten times and then she puts the finger in and she's like and same again and then

and she's like and hold so you have to like turn around her finger and hold and then she's like okay and double time so you're like um tense and tense and tense and tense and hold her finger inside you and it's like oh cool um

it's just so intimate um literally um yeah I'd find about it but um it was just quite a lot and this and hold and then you're like what do you talk about while you're like gripping her finger with your fanny basically that is intimate can you ask not to do that part especially if you've had a C-section Can you just say can we skip that part?

Well I did say it was like I didn't, I was like nothing This should be fine Like I didn't You know we didn't come down here But she's like yeah But you still had a baby sitting on your pelvic floor For now that's a good point

That's a good point Well is it I mean yeah yeah Yeah But I feel like unless you're having problems with it Like I'd rather not you know Well I'm not having problems But I was You know famously I have

a massive bladder. It was actually commented on by the woman who did the first ultrasound when I was pregnant. She said, you have a massive bladder. I was like, thank you so much. I've got a huge bladder. My mom always said I've got a bladder like a camel. I can go fucking hours without weird. Recently, when I've got to go, I've got to go. And that's new to me.

I can always hold it forever. And I still can hold it but with less ease and comfort than before. Right. So I was like, you know what? I want to get back to my camel-like status. So you need to do you need a five out of five. You've got work. You've got work to do. While we're here,

my final awkward, this would probably be my bad, is, um, God, I think of the, you didn't end up farting. Did you end up farting?

I didn't, no, no, no, it's close, but this is worse. I bought my homework home, and I have to do my cesarean scar massage,

and you just have to, like, rub around the scar to, like, break all the muscle down. And Alex woke up yesterday morning and looked over at me, he was like, you masturbated. Oh my God.

I'm massaging my cesarean scar. He literally woke up and looked at me. He lifted his little eye mask and he's like, he's to make it up 6.30 in the morning. It probably looks exactly like that as well. You're like... It really does. Oh my God, that's so good

I'm a person So, yeah, no Just do a video Brilliant Okay Some orchids have been bred Oh, that is an incredibly good awkward I just imagine

I'm like Literally amazing enjoyed that very much thank you Alex thank you he was very supportive he's like it's all right if you are

I was like oh my god's sake it's alright if you are it's natural oh it's natural it's not on the top of the new mother's to do list if I was going to say

I haven't got the time yeah probably nor the inclination right now but okay but I appreciate your enthusiasm Alex yeah and your acceptance thanks very much well I mean my awkward's gonna pale in comparison now actually no it's not because it was it was genuinely fucking waterfying so what did you do

so you're going out of the house my like you're doing like real life awkwards what did you do yeah yeah this is a real life out the house awkward um other people public people awkward so i often go to nursery to pick up my nephew but with my sister like i go in with her and he doesn't take any notice of me he's just like mommy mommy like he's just so happy to see her like runs up to her and it's like really sweet and i often go with her um this time i was like let me go in jen let me go in to get him because he loves me now so like i know that if you're not there

he'll be like ah Alex and I was like please just let me go and going go and get him this is the greatest thing I've ever heard Al I there is nothing more vulnerable that a human being can do than expecting than the wanting love from a toddler it's desperate and it's sad and it normally ends in tears for the adult that's all I know before you tell the story exactly but keep that keep that well in mind right we we're walking and I was like you stay there please just let me because he does love me now like we have a really nice little relationship now

so I knew he was going to be excited to see me like a familiar face and he was like I walked into the room with all these toddlers and all these workers there's like one nursery staff per three toddlers it's like

I mean I guess that may sense that makes sense but anyway there's lots of them there's lots of people in the room there's lots of human bodies in the room there's lots of people to witness this interaction he looks at me and his face lights up Alex! Okay?

So I go, Louis! I kneel down, I outstretched my arms and he runs and he runs straight past me because he's... Genevieve, my stupid sister had like poked her head

round to check on what was going on and he'd seen her and he ran straight towards her. So I am left in the middle of the room, bent down, knelt down, Arms outstretched while he legs it past me. I was like, I die. I feel horrendous. I just, I stood straight.

I like, I snapped up. Like, I've never stood up so fast in my fucking life. I'm just like, walk towards the door and I'm like, getting out of here right now. I'm not like staying around for this aftermath. Yeah, fuck you. I was like, you had to do it, didn't you? You couldn't just give me my moment.

Oh my God. That is, Alex, I have honestly never heard bravery like it. give you a medal, I would. I've learnt my lesson. One of kid's life. Yeah, I'm sorry it took you so long to learn it. I learned it young and I'm grateful for it. Because if you try, kids can smell desperation.

You have to be like a cat. You have to implement the cat method with a kid. Note, I'm not doing it with my own daughter, but with other people's kids, you have to just not give a shit. Make them come to you. Make them want you. Like, you can't, you can't just,

be desperate. They see straight through that. You know me quite well and so you know that that's not my vibe. No, no, no, it's not. But I find it to be incredibly effective. I'm not the pipe piper for children because I've got an air of like, we could have a nice time. Indifference. But that's on you to make us have a nice time. Again, I'm not doing this with my own kid. Just looking at they're like, I can take you or leave you. I'm not doing that with that. With her, I'm desperate, it's tragic. I'm like, love me.

She smiles so white. She's just like smiling, which is a real treat. But she's really, she smiles a lot for Alex. Oh. Love that for them. Oh, oh, that hurts. It's okay. I think genuinely there's a level of instinct when it's your mother because they can

smell, she smells food on me. So the first instinct with me is like, eat her. Whereas with Alex, it's like, love him. Have you got anything bad? I mean, that nursery thing is pretty bad. That's about as bad as it gets. My bad, very, very quick. Like, I just keep buying books that I want to read

and they keep stacking up. And now I have, next to my bedside table, Dave the other day was like, should we take a look at this? I've got 19 bucks stacked on my bedside table in two stacks, 19 bucks. And... That is not like that.

My to read pile is, as far as I can count, probably about 50 or 60 bucks. Yeah, but in two weeks' time, they'll be red Ollo is slowing me down but I hear you you get my point

you get my point I do so why don't you oh take yourself I can't I can't I can't okay

it's not a bad that can be resolved apart from potentially just burning them and put them in a box you know so I'm incapable of reading and it pisses me off

that's my bad have you got a bad I lost a big deal this week work deal which is crashing and it's okay but I was just like

you know what we always like we talk if we don't have jobs on this podcast um but yeah i i lost i lost a wide deal which is a bit like but it's fine you know like these things happen yeah it's fine but like yeah it's a big deal i was really excited about it told all my friends and then it's embarrassing because it's not happening but yeah most about it was oh congratulations and then never mind did you have to do like yeah i take back total pretty much i haven't talked my mom yet you know what i told you about

no my mom's absolutely absolutely gutted because she was so proud of me and now I'm going to be like it's not happening but I haven't told it yet so that'll be my hookah next week probably no oh I'm sorry that shit it's okay

but today's episode so it's about calling it by the way happy happy Easter Monday yes and today's guest is the formidable oh

she's such an oxymor because she's so formidable but she's also so fucking lovely today ladies and ladies because I don't think we have any gents Today, ladies and ladies, we have Megynne Hi!

Hello. Thank you so much for coming. You're so welcome. Thanks for having me. I've been waiting for this moment. I was like, they're going to ask me soon, surely. I really want to go on the podcast. We're so happy that you said yes. Yeah, of course. I'm like, everyone that has ever watched one of my Instagram stories knows that I'm like your biggest fan because I just share.

I know you do. I'm so grateful. Share all your shit all the time because I just love it. Thank you. I'm so excited that you're here to talk to us today. We're just talking about what we were going to talk about. because there's so many layers to you and your journey and, like, what you share online. But my favourite thing that you make me do is reflect on myself and my behaviour and my, like, how I judge the world around me and the people around me. And, like, I've learnt so much from you.

And I'm hoping that that's what we can talk about today. Yeah. And helping people, like, I don't know, like, forgive the bits of themselves that aren't the kindest parts and like move on in a kinder and more peaceful way. Yeah. Because when I look at your life, I just think, well, that looks peaceful. So peaceful. I think that's the one thing that like I learned was that with the shadow work,

which is what we're really talking about there, it's like looking at the shadow, the shadow self, the part of us that acts out of fear, the part of us that does things that can be a bit catty or they can be passive aggressive or there's a side of us that's a bit like snaky or whatever or mean. or I think it's understanding that that part of us comes from a hurt place, always. It comes from pain.

It doesn't come from love. It doesn't come from being in your power. And actually, it's so easy to see that in other people. It's so easy to point the finger and say, oh, she's X, Y, Z, and she's that, and she's got this about her, and then completely ignore the fact that even calling that out in someone is your own shadow, you know, and ignoring the fact that you have behaviour. If you went and looked in the mirror and or you watched yourself throughout the day, like the things you say, the way you show up, the things you say about people, can you actually sit and be with that? The discomfort of it. It's not easy to sit and go, oh my God, I just said that. That was really bitchy. And then to own that and accept that you just said something really bitchy, like that's hard. It's hard and a lot of people won't do it because it's too painful for them to look at. And underneath that bitchiness or that passive aggressiveness or that passive aggressiveness or. or the whatever it is, the shaming of someone else

or the jealousy or whatever, there is a part of us that just wants to be loved and hasn't been loved. And for some reason, at some point in our childhood, or even when we're older, the shadow can form at all times, but a lot of it comes from childhood. And it's like the moments in childhood where you were told like, you're not good enough,

stop doing that, sit down, shut up, put it away. Like nobody wants to hear you, nobody wants to see you. And there's parts of our character that as children we are so free and open and expressive and we don't care what anyone else thinks because we've never known otherwise. We've never been told that we're not good enough. So we start being told that's not good enough

and that's not lovable. And if you act like that, you can't be here. And those parts of us, it's really painful. Those parts of us go into the shadow. And when we hide those parts of us and keep them in the shadow and I always say that it's like a cupboard in the back of your mind where you keep the parts of yourself

that you don't think are lovable, so you don't show them to the world out of fear of rejection. And that rejection is rooted in fear of, well, it's survival, basically, because back in the day we needed to be liked and to be loved to survive in our group. So, but we don't need that anymore. We don't have that anymore, but it's still that instinct deep within us. And it's recognizing that when I think that's the piece of it, right? The peaceful part is recognizing that my shadow parts and your shadow parts and anyone else's shadow parts comes from a place of this part of me isn't welcome and so it's not lovable and it's not

accepted so it starts to act out of fear and that can show up in different ways. So that's like simplest form if you were thinking about this like shadow work and if you're like completely new to the idea of it, would it be this idea that the parts of yourself that you can't love will be the parts of other people that you don't like and that you would have an issue with. Like I would have an issue with you for being actually like thinking back to like all of what you're saying there and we start before we were recording

we talked about how much of this is linked to patriarchal stuff but the amount of teenage, like the rhetoric surrounding teenage girls is all the time that we're bitchy and that you're bitchy and you're bitchy and oh girls it's so complicated it's always so complicated having a relationship teenage girls because they're bitching and bitching. But I wonder how much of that actually comes from the fact that teenage girls have been forced into the shadows so much

that then they become their meanest. We become the meanest versions of ourselves because we're projecting all of this shit that we picked up in childhood that boys didn't have. 1,000%. And everything is a mirror, right? Everything is a mirror. When you point something out in someone,

it might not be as clear to see what it is. It might need some digging. It's not always as clear as, oh, you're calling her, you know, you're saying that she's too confident and it's because you don't have any confidence Because that person might have confidence, but there might be something deeper, but it's always a mirror. What you see in others is what's happening within you. You know when someone insults you and you know it's not true.

It doesn't even scratch the surface. If someone came and called you a name and you were like, someone came and called you selfish and you know you're not selfish, you won't get triggered because the mirror that they're holding up to you doesn't reflect what's happening inside you. So you go, whatever that doesn't like, because it's not, there's nothing being activated within you that says that's true, right? So everything is a mirror. And I think on that topic of teenage girls, yeah, that's like a cultural shadow. It's like we're taught from such a young age to shut up, sit down, be quiet, be modest, be calm, be like, whatever it is, like to be more attractive to be, oh, I don't even know. There's just so much isn't there. Small, small, like, shrink yourself. And that shadow will it's a pressure? that's oppression. It's telling someone don't be your full self, right? The part of us that doesn't feel seen, heard and doesn't have permission to be in its fullness goes into the shadow. And then, yeah, of course we start to act out in ways that unconscious we don't understand. And that's why women have turned on each other because there is the sister wound.

The sister wound of we're all against each other because there's no space for us in the world. Like the men have all the power. The men have all the space. They have all of, they can have what they want. They can get to the top. They have all the spaces at the top. There's so few spaces left for women at the top. So let's turn on each other and fight for that.

And that's very shadowy, very shadowy. And the healing begins inside all of us. It's not in pointing at that other woman and saying you need to change and be different and shrink yourself to make me feel better. It's like, okay, wait a minute. Shut everything else out what's going on in here. Like on a deep level.

I'd literally listen to her talk for like 45. I know, I know. And it's so, because I mean, I have a quote on my camera roll. Save to my camera on one of your quotes. And Al never says anything to her camera roll. She's only ever like 15 images. You're not a screenshot. I'm extremely picky about what lives on my camera.

I'm so honoured, thank you. But this quote lives on my camera on. I've got like 147,000 photos. That's embarrassing. You should be ashamed. They're mostly all my kids as well. And it was this quote, the discomfort we feel when we see another woman dancing, singing, expressing herself, walking confidently, crying, sharing her truth,

making money, loving herself, it belongs to us, our discomfort is not a demand for her to be smaller, it's a call for us to heal. And I think that's one of the most special quotes I've ever come across. Yeah, and that's been, it really sums up my journey. And I think as well, that was a big realisation for me in my last relationship when I had really bad jealousy. Like, it just tore me apart. I would cry in bed if he was out and about and like at an event. especially like a fitness event where there was the kind of women that I compared myself to

that fed my eating disorder all of that really shadowy stuff I would literally sit in bed crying my eyes out and it would be all about the women it wasn't about him it was about the women it was about they're better than me

they're more lovable than me like he's going to leave me for one of them and then I'm going to have no worth and I'm going to be left alone for the rest of my life like it was this really really deep fear and eventually I I had to go and look in the mirror and say,

this is not about those women. They're doing nothing wrong. They're just existing. How did you get to that, though? Like, how do you get from sitting in, because I think jealousy is something that we don't admit to feel. I think jealousy is a really horrible, talked about in a really horrible way

because it's so normal and it's so, like you say, like it's the mirror thing again, right? Yeah. But it's something that so many of us can't help jealousy. Yeah. And it's generally through a smallness in us that we feel jealous to someone else, which is a sad thing.

And yet we treat jealousy like it's a really mean thing. When we talk about jealousy, it's like it's so mean. It's like be better than that. And we don't have a lot of compassion for anybody who feels jealous. And that's it. It's the compassion. That's the missing piece. But how did you find it? Because we don't talk about jealousy compassionately at all.

The trope we have around jealousy is like she's mad. Like this toxic woman, she's like, it's like, it's like a psycho. Or whatever. Well, that's where compassion is the piece needed for all a shadow work. You cannot shame the shadow. If you shame the shadow, the shadow goes further into the shadow, right? The parts of you that don't feel loved are in the shadow because they don't feel loved. Now, pile shame on top of that lack of love.

And what happens, the shadow gets, that part of you will go deeper into shame, shadow. Like, shame thrives in secrecy, right? So it's like, I just want to hide more and more and more. So if somebody is being jealous, and then you judge them for that jealousy and you call them a psycho, then that part of them can't heal. It can't be brought into the light. The point of shadow work is that we take the part of us that hurts, the part of us that's jealous. Yes, shadow behaviours can be seen as negative and catty and whatever else you want to call them shameful.

But they come, and this is the key part, they come from a wounded place. So seeing beyond the action, the symptom of the shadow and go into the core wound of the shadow, that's when you find compassion because you go, holy fuck, that person is desperate for love. And they weren't given it in childhood. And they weren't taught how to love themselves. And they need it. And it's acting out in jealousy and psycho behavior or whatever. And I was in that relationship.

I was hysterical. And I remember someone saying to me, if it's hysterical, it's historical. And I remember thinking, this goes way back. This is about way more than my ex-boyfriend at the time being at a fitness event surrounded by women who go to the gym. That is the most surface level, like symptom of this historical issue. And it's making me hysterical because I don't know what the fuck's going on. Why do I feel this way?

Pile and shame on myself, I should be doing better than this. I shouldn't be this jealous. like how can I, the confusion of it all. It wasn't until I addressed the historical part and went, okay, where the fuck did I learn this? Like, why is this happening? What's the wound? And that is when you say, like, how did you get there?

It's like the willingness to, first of all, drop the self-judgment, look at it objectively and say, I am acting in X, Y, Z way. It's creating a lot of chaos in my life. I don't want to be this way anymore. What do I need to go back and heal with so much compassion and patient,

and understanding for myself so that I can move through this because shaming myself, putting myself down, calling myself a psycho and is keeping me in this loop, is keeping me in the chaos and I want to be out of it.

I want peace. I just want to feel peace. And it was that desperation. They say that like the real change in life happens when you get so sick of your own shit that is like there's no other way. Like you have to go in and do the work. And that was it.

Like I started to hire coaches. I started to look on YouTube videos. Like why am I acted in this way? what can I do to heal this? And I started doing meditations. And I started doing inner child work. And I started doing inner child work. And I found this little child within me who was like six years old that felt so ashamed

and lost and unlovable. And I was like, I had to go back and like sit with her in meditation and be like, hey, babe, like, I am so sorry that you felt this way for so long. And I've not come back for you. And that's the thing with the shadow. It's inner child work is one of the main ways to do shadow work. and essentially what you're doing is you're going back and saving yourself because no one's going to come and do it for you.

No one's going to wave a magic wand and take all of those feelings away, that jealousy away, those triggers away. You have to go, take responsibility, go back in time, go within and say what part of me needs me. And then if you think about the shadow in that metaphorical way of like all of the parts of you that feel lost and abandoned are in this cupboard, you go back over time and you take each piece out and you love it back into the light.

and that's why love and compassion is the key. It's like the, the key, the missing peace. And that's why the, you know, like the, we were talking before about like when people are hateful towards you and like judgment, judgmental towards you, all of us know that feeling. It's horrible. And when you read things about yourself online that are so evil and nasty and cruel and they're lies and you sit there.

And I'm sure we've all felt this where you sit in bed and you just cry and you're like, this is so painful. it's because that little person inside you is like, this fucking sucks. Like, I already don't feel lovable. And this person is drilling it home into me that I'm worthless and I'm a piece of shit and you start to believe it.

And it hurts. We're human. It hurts. And the cure, the solution, the thing that breaks the cycle is you having, first of all, compassion for that part of you. And then that compassion, and I said this the other day on a quote,

it was like, if you're gentle with yourself, you'll be gentle with others, right? That compassion that you have cultivated within yourself to give yourself room to be human, space to be to fuck up, to make mistakes, to just fucking be a messy human

who is stumbling through life, doing their best, right? When you have that grace for yourself within and that compassion for yourself within, it doesn't make their behaviour acceptable, but you soften towards it. And that softening breaks the cycle. Because you get to have compassion for them as well

and see that, yes, they're acting in wild and inexcusable ways a lot of the time. But actually, if you can have compassion for them, you actually end up with peace in your life. And that's where the peace comes from, honestly. Yeah. I think you've been a massive part of that for me, like finding the peace, finding, and we talked about this in an episode of the day, where it's like you just want to choose peace at some point. And you feel in, like, in your life, there's like a million fires. that they're going to be lit all around you at any given time.

And there's only so many you can put out. And there's only so much you can control. And after a while, whether it's for us, like, on a bigger scale, it's like some, you know, trolling on the internet. But for anybody who's being bullied, not even being bullied, just who's surrounded by toxicity or experiencing bullying or hurtful comments from people in their family

or people at school or people at work, like you just get to a point where you just think, I can't keep all of this. anger and sadness and all of these tiring emotions here anymore. And I just want to choose peace. And, yeah, I think, like, exposure to your, well, the gentleness quote really was good for me. Like, to realize, I was like, oh, my God, yeah. Like, these people aren't gentle with it.

And you have to feel sorry for them. Anybody who's got that much anger in them that they want to do this, that they want to be negative, you have to pity them. And that's so empowering. It's so nice. And then you can just be like, oh, God, sorry for you. And then you can move on. And it's not about you anymore. And that's such a relief.

Yeah. And also, like, I think that in a way, when I say it breaks the cycle as well, like, you're in your power. And when you're in your power, people tend to kind of fall away because they're not feeding off you as much. Do you know what I mean? If you give them, if their shadow is coming in. you and then you respond with your shadow side and it's like the shadow war like when you shadow when you soften that and you start to come at it come at them from that place of like compassion and peace and acceptance and grace there it's very hard to for them to fight back against

that you know it breaks the momentum I guess it does yeah and I think that's the most powerful thing to realize that if you don't want chaos in your life stop feeding it like stop feeding it stop giving it all of your time and all of your energy and that's That in itself is a process. It's like you have to almost like, oh, there's so much that goes into that. There's boundaries. There's, and you've been on that journey recently.

I've watched you unfold from like it being this really painful thing. And then you'll grow through it to now on the other side where you're like, I get it. And I've found myself in it. And it actually grow quite a thick skin from it as well. Yeah, you definitely do. Yeah, I think you've been on that as well in a way. I think we both have.

Yeah. Like, yeah. in different ways yeah I think your situation has been quite unique but I think for me the thing for me is that and I don't know if this is unique to me but it takes a long time

it's a process definitely it takes a long time to get to a place where and actually going back to shadow work I wanted to ask you for people who are struggling to harness that self-compassion because to suspend self-judgment self-shame

and self-loathing which have been default modes for a lot of us growing up, right? To suspend all those things is really difficult. And do you have advice for people who are struggling with that? Do you think it's a matter of like practice and time and effort? Yeah, and I think as well, don't rush anything. Like I think once you were opened up to the world of shadow work and you open up to the world of, oh wait, hang on a minute,

there's a lot of pain and fear in my life. and I get to actually get to know it, befriend it, understand it and move through it so I can access more love, more joy, more peace, more expansion, right? And I like to see life as almost like a game. Like, it's like every time I shed another layer of fear, another layer of like another block or another limitation or another idea about myself and the world

that's been holding me back and keeping me small, like I access more peace, more joy, more expansion. And I see life in that way and I'm like, okay, let's keep peeling the layers back. The layers reveal themselves when they're ready. Like, as you move through life, it's like, okay, here's another shadow aspect. It's not like, fuck, I'm broken. Let's go fix everything. Like, you're not broken. There's nothing to fix. It's just appealing away. And I would say that I always say anyone who's starting out on any kind of like self, the journey of self-awareness, the journey of looking within instead of

pointing the finger all the time and starting to actually take responsibility for yourself and your life. The first point of, call is the inner judge. Now the shadow has many faces, many aspects that reveal themselves over time. The inner judge, I believe, is the most important one because if you don't do the work with your inner judge first, then you're going to do all the other work with the inner judge sitting there judging what you're doing. So it makes it harder. So if you can start your journey with compassion, this goal of like, I am going to become the most compassionate, open-minded, non-judgmental person towards myself.

I'm going to give myself. I'm going to forgive myself for everything I've ever said, everything I've ever done, no matter how bad on nasty or awful it was. If you can start there, then it makes the rest of it so much easier because you don't have that judge

through the whole journey. Because I suppose that judge is probably saying, well, you don't deserve this, you don't, and even if you're trying to be, and I think you actually made a really good point in that post that you did about people who are gentle with themselves are gentle with others

and people that are hateful or hurtful to themselves are hurtful to others but you specified in the caption that that's not always the case because a lot of people but it I mean it's true for the most part like if somebody's being horrible it's probably because they're being horrible to themselves

but the other thing like that you pointed out in the caption is that you can be some of the people who are the meanest to themselves are the loveliest to other people but I guess that it's that's almost harder to forgive yourself if you're being so nice to everybody else because you I think a lot of people and there are some like really wonderful people in this world

who are the nicest people I know who it kills me that they can't be nice they can't afford themselves the same grace that they afford everybody else and I guess that comes from their inner judgment they've say they're not doing it it's like it's like they're protecting everybody else in their lives from this inner judge and they're taking the brunt of it. I guess there's a martyr aspect to that too

where it's like I did some shadow work on the martyr recently because I wanted to come off Instagram for a while and I was like, no, but Instagram needs me. Like I had this shadow of like, I can't not be there because, you know, I've got to show up because I've got to put wisdom out into the world or put my passion out into the world and people need it and my coach was like, people don't fucking need it.

Like stop trying to save everyone. You're not here to save everyone. And I think that we can look at different parts of the shadow and say, okay, this part of me feels worthy somehow gets some kind of emotional payoff for giving everyone else all the love and leaving on for myself. And it's almost like this, well, if I'm empty and depleted and I've given all my love away, then I'm worthy at least. At least everybody else is happy. Yeah, it's like a self-flagellation. Yeah, you abandon yourself. And that's a shadow. That's a shadow at work. Yeah. You know, you get to love everybody else and you also get to love yourself.

That's the healing piece. It's like, oh, actually, I deserve my own love. And actually, I can give more when I fill myself up first anyway. I was such a martyr. Yeah, but it's so powerful to realise that and then move through it. Yeah. And that's such a good, like, example and action of what you were saying before, that it's not like, you can't just do everything at once and, like, peel everything away.

And it's like... Oh my God, you'd be so exhausted. Like, there's just no way to hold all of that. Yeah. You know, and that's why I always say as well, do it with someone. Like, get a coach or get professional help. Get a therapist. Like, work with someone who's a specialist in shadow work.

I have a shadow work coach called Jeff and we do EFT which is like this thing called Emotional Freedom Technique if you tried it tap in yeah I used to tap and I'll sit there and I'll tell him okay I did the shadowy thing

I don't know why I did it let's go into it and he then he's an absolute professional at finding the parts of the shadow and then he talks me through it through this EFT work and I'll be in floods of tears like I'll have tapped into a memory

from when I was eight years old and I was being bullied and someone said something and my arm of my self-worth just blew up and I'll tap into that moment and I'll go into floods of tears but I'll be releasing that emotion, that trauma, whatever happened in that moment

from my body in that moment through the tapping. So that's why it's so important to have someone who knows what they're doing holding the space because a lot of it is rooted in trauma and you need a trauma specialist to do that. So it's all good and well-being like I'll go and do some shadow work

but if there's deep stuff that is really painful like definitely get support with it Yeah. So, I mean, I think you kind of just answered a question that I wanted to ask you, which was, do you ever catch yourself saying, like, bitchy things now? Very rarely. And when I do, I call myself out like that. Do you?

Like, literally, if something I say, I can even feel it before it comes out my mouth. If there's something I say that's a bit like mean or, oh, what I'm trying to think about, like, I don't know, my integrity is one of my strongest values. it's like practice what you preach, but I also do know I'm a human and that those things can come up and there's always going to be little bits of you can't get rid of the shadow, it's always going to be there. But yeah, I think there's definitely moments where I'm like, oh, that wasn't like me to say that or that, but that the observation of it and then noticing it and being like, oh, I get to choose again now, I'm not going to say that again. That's the growth. That's the room that you give

yourself to be human and to go, I'm not perfect. Yeah. Is the, is the idea, of shadow work to banish the shadow entirely, or is it more sort of like reintegrating it? That's it. Yeah, okay. It's a reintegration. I think, especially with, people always say, like, I'll kill the ego or whatever,

and it's like, no, you don't want to kill the ego. We're not here to kill off parts of ourselves because that would just end up in more pain. Like, we are here to become whole. That means our light and our shadow, all of it gets to be loved, all of it gets to be seen, all of it gets to be acknowledged.

And with the shadow work, what you're essentially doing is taking the parts of you that don't feel loved and you're not banishing them because that's the opposite of what they need. What they need is to be brought back into the light and say, you are so worthy. I know you've not acted in the, you know, whatever ways or whatever, these things that you've done or said or whatever. I forgive you. You were in pain. Let's just like come back into the light. Let's help you find that sense of self-worth again. And that's when you said that reintegrate, like that's what it is. It's an integration back into the self, the fullness of

the self. So you become more whole because there's not parts of you everywhere. You don't have parts of you in the shadow and parts of you in the light and you don't wear masks to please different people and you don't feel like you have to show up as one person for them, another person for them in order to be safe. It's like, no, I am a whole package. This is all of me. I love all of me. I'm not perfect, but this is what you're going to get. And if they say I don't like that, then fine. And that's where the real true inner power comes in. It's like, it's okay. If people can't accept you in your wholeness, then they're not meant to be in your life. Yeah.

To talk about the ego, so like one of the greatest things that I've learned in my life is to stop leading with my ego. Yeah. To stop making everything about me because that I mean like, I just, I loved it. Just what I did. The world evolved around you. Yeah, literally. I can't help that.

I'm at the epicenter. But yeah, like I, and even it's something that I've tried to explain that. on Instagram when it comes up but I know you'll do it better than me but it's this idea that like what other people say about you it's what we're talking about before by the mirror this is what other people say about you isn't your business or whatever and for me I realize that when I lead with my ego everything that said about me or said yeah said about me I would be like that's about me but then you realize that actually things said about you aren't really about you but I wonder like can you explain how the ego works and like how you can still be proud of yourself and still

have an ego? Because it's not a bad thing. No, it's not. But how it can be detrimental when you lead with it. Yeah, I think the ego has a time and a place and it's like the ego is for protection, right? So it comes in to protect and it's really useful. If we didn't have one, it's a bit, you know, you'd be a bit flimsy really. It's like there is this, there is a need for it and you can befriend it and you can be like, there's a time and a place and, you know, I like to say there's the ego and then there's the higher self. So like you lead from the higher self, your inner knowing of who you are, who you came here to be, your values, your integrity, everything is just, it's a very strong place to come from. And sometimes the ego has to step in and say, oh, fuck you, no fucking

way, you know? And it's like, yeah, I just think it's really powerful to be able to befriend the ego rather than try and get rid of it. And as you were saying on the internalizing of someone else's opinion and stuff. I think, again, taking a step back, and this is one thing that I learned to do, if somebody's comment triggered me and then I internalized it, then there was work to be done because something they've said feels true for me somewhere. So why? And I don't like it. So why? Sometimes people can say something and it's feedback and it's criticism. And even if they don't say it in the nicest way, I've learned from them and been like, oh, wait a minute, yeah, that was, maybe I shouldn't have said that or done that.

they've pointed out my shadow, from their shadow, whatever. But like if we're looking at within ourselves, it's like, oh, she's pointed something out in me that I don't like. Rather than being upset by it, can I go and do the work to figure out what that is and grow from it? And then it's also having the, I said this the other day on a podcast where it's like, the more you know yourself, the more protection you have from other people's opinions, because it's when you don't know yourself.

So either they'll say something and you'll be like, oh, fuck, that's true, hurts, like, oh, I can be really selfish sometimes. And she just called me selfish and oh, maybe I should be less selfish and you start questioning everything, right? So you've internalised that opinion. Or they say something and you're like, oh, I don't know. Is that true? Because you don't know yourself well enough yet. You haven't sat with yourself or figured out who you are. And it's like, yeah, am I? And it's just like big question mark of like, holy fuck, am I? Does everybody think that? That resonates. Yeah. Yeah. That resonates a lot. Yeah, because, yeah. Yeah, because you can take one comment, even if it wasn't

meant even if it's a joke, like any passing thing and be like, and like you say, because of your own insecurity. And then that's like haunting. Yeah. But that's why it's really powerful to know yourself and like getting to know yourself. It's just spending time with you. And that's why I love meditation so much because the more I get to know myself, the more I realize like at my core, and this is a very spiritual way of looking at life, but like who I am at my core is love. Like that's the, that's the kind of the core of me, who I am and knowing myself and then also just like knowing who you are behind closed doors, right? So if you presented yourself as one way online and then behind closed doors,

you're a completely different person, then that is going to be triggering because you're like, oh shit, I'm not aligned or whatever. But if you know behind closed doors that you're kind to people, that you practice what you preach online, that you are just everything that you wish to embody in a person, the things that you value in a human, then people can come at you. with all sorts of bullshit, and you know it's projection. You know they're speaking from their pain. You know they're talking about themselves. You know that because you know yourself and you go,

your opinion does not align with my truth. And my truth is the truth because I know me. I spend time with me. I'm behind closed doors with me. You don't get to come onto an Instagram page or whatever and start telling me about who I am. I know who I am. And that's the ultimate protection because it bounces off you.

It's just like, oh, whatever. So if you feel defensive about something, Is that to you a sign of like, this is triggering something in me? Always. If I'm defensive and I get like, oh, I used to have this shadowy thing where I would block anyone who had a different opinion than me. I was like, no. That's massive airy's energy.

Yeah, literally so airy. And I went deeper into it and I was like, I didn't feel heard as a child. I didn't feel understood. So when someone came to me with a different opinion, I didn't feel understood or validated in my opinion and it hurt because I was like, you don't understand me. don't tell me I'm wrong because that hurts

because that's because my whole childhood everyone was like I don't understand this child you know so it's like yeah and I had to look at that and be like I've got to stop blocking people when they don't agree with me like that is not that's not cool so yeah if you answer to that question

if you get defensive yeah I always remember someone saying and I wish I could remember who said this and where I heard it but I can't someone said run towards your triggers because that teaches you everything but it's so hard to run to watch your triggers And also, it's so difficult. You don't have to run to them all at once.

But what makes it easier is running towards them with compassion. That's why the compassion is so important. I know. I really don't really don't want to go. Don't make me do this. But it's amazing how like we have this such a strong self-preservation instinct, don't we? Yeah. To like keep ourselves away from our triggers.

Like even though my higher self knows that all, Ultimately, it's not good to run away from them. Just how I know that when I feel these painful feelings, I know it's not good to shrug, like to put them in a box and not sit with them. But it's amazing, like, how as humans, we just, like, just try and, like, keep ourselves on survival track and we're like, you just need to, yeah. Most people are just in survival mode. They don't, they don't want to step out into the discomfort to thrive.

And it's scary, because if you pick one thread, the whole fucking dress can come undone. And it's like that, yeah, like, I, I, I, when, when you're saying this stuff and it's like, and I realize I did not deliberately step onto this path, like, of, of learning this stuff. Like, I feel like, you'll have seen, like, I'm sure you've seen on Instagram, but Jacqueline, the coach that I work with that we just, we have on the podcast and we love her. Yeah. I felt like I was forced to go and see her by my life. Like, I was confronted, like, I just was like, if I don't do something, but I didn't feel like a choice. It wasn't like, I'm going to go and start healing. my shit. It was just like, if I don't heal, if I don't work through this now, it's just

going to get on top of me and I'm just not going to survive it. So, and then subsequently, like, and I feel like that was the first part of it for me. And then, and that was a very practical learning, which was like I have to, I just have to get on top of everything. And it's like I had to sit, like, make a system. And then more recently, this year, I have come at everything with a lot more compassion. I felt like I couldn't bring compassion last year. I had to be practical but this year I've had like and I haven't done it with anyone I've mostly just done it by following you on Instagram I've been there by said yeah you have no idea probably how many people you're doing that for but like I yeah I have had to come and we've talked a lot on this

podcast about the trolling that we've that I've had this year and so much of that compassion has has had so much of my making peace with that has had to come from finding compassion for myself and for the fact that, well, you know, all the things that I'm in, because sometimes when people say something mean to you or about you or whatever, it hurts because it is true. Yeah. And sometimes it's stuff that is out of your control. Like there's one person we've talked about before who just thinks I'm so stupid. And I'm like, sometimes it's going to be really easy to prove that I'm not the brightest bulb in the book. In lots of ways, but I'm shit at spelling and stuff like that. And she loves pointing that out. Right.

And this is just a really basic example of this. But I can't do anything about that. I'm a shit speller, right? And sometimes you just have to sit with something and be like, well, it's true. Yeah. And that's okay. Yeah. But if other person, the other, or it's like you've got a big nose or you've got this or, you know, whatever.

It can be something that's objectively true that somebody's saying. Yeah. But there comes a time when you can sit with it and you can think, yes, it's true. Yeah. I'm going to forgive myself for being shit at spelling. Yeah. And we're just going to feel really sorry for that person that she's so bothered that I'm so shit at spelling. And I'm using that as a bad example.

Yeah, but that's it because you own it. You've owned it. But that's the compassion side. And I think that's the thing that's really, really scary for people with the starting. Because if you do start one bit, it's not really enough just to do a little bit. You have to do all of it. Yeah, but I think just take it a day at a time. And I was just saying to Alex before, it's like, it reveals itself when it's ready.

And some people will go their whole lives and they'll get to 60 and then they'll be ready. And it's like some people, people are starting much younger now because of social media and people talking about things like this, which is fucking amazing. back in my day, which was like 10 years ago, back in my day, like we didn't have, I didn't even, like, I remember trying to find a counselor and like having to go on Google and find one in my area and I went into this weird room with this guy and I was sat there and just cried my eyes out and told him everything about my eating disorder that I'd had for most of my life and most of my teenage years. adulthood and like, he just sat there and was like, he said something like, I just think that

you are too attractive to have an eating disorder. Yeah, that's what he said to me. He was like, I just can't, he couldn't get his head around it. He was like, I don't understand why you're insecure. It doesn't make sense to me. It doesn't add up. And I just, it was so hard to be in that moment and be met with that. And I was like, and there was nowhere to turn. Nobody would listen. There was nothing on the line about it. That was the, that was the time and social media where Instagram just started. And I was try, bust in my ashton of an Instagram model. That was like my

purpose at the time. I was like, this is it. I'm going to be an Instagram model. I edited all my pictures. I'd warped my body. Like, I had the Photoshop before everybody else had the app. So I was doing it way ahead of time. And, you know, back then, there was

no support. I couldn't find it. As hard as I looked, there was nothing. No one was talking about it. No one was doing this work. Or if they were, it wasn't on my radar. And I felt very alone and very lost. And that's why it's so good now because, yes, you pull the thread, but there's people around you to support you.

There are people talking about it. There's so much on YouTube. There's meditations on Spotify. There is free support. There's just a lot of resources now. So if you start to pull that thread, you're going to be okay. And actually, like, when you say running away from the triggers and stuff

and run towards them, the reason why we run towards them is it might be uncomfortable, but they hold the key to your growth. your liberation, your expansion. Like they literally, your triggers are standing there, as ugly and as shadowy as you might find them. They are holding the key. And once you move through that,

you then get to access so much more life, so much more just opportunity and love and expansion and it's worth it. Can I ask about, you mentioned it right at the beginning, about forgiving your past self. Yeah. For the bad things that you've done. Because I think that's something that a lot of people

struggle with. Yeah. And like I know, I mean, it's actually obviously a massive part of like the 12 step program is like, is forgiveness. And I feel like there's a lot of, I mean, I don't know the site, the history of that, but like the spirituality and forgiving everything and whatever. But we are so mean to ourselves and we do beat ourselves up so much for so much. And I just don't know how alone you can sit and forgive yourself for past things that you've done. Like I think, you know, I mentioned the 12-step thing because obviously you have so much support during that time and that's a huge part of your journey and I think that it's important to recognize that it is a huge part of any healing journey. But how do you do it on your own? Like how do you sit and

forgive yourself for what you've done? I think you have to understand that you're not born all-knowing. None of us are born like all knowing. We don't, human experience doesn't come with a manual that says do this, be like this. This is the way to do everything. Get it perfect. Get it right. Like the whole point of coming to this earth as a human in a body is that we get to fuck up, make mistakes and learn and grow. And I really think the whole point of our existence is to learn and grow. Like when you get to the end of your life and you are on your deathbed, it's like, who did you become from the moment you were born? We spend our childhood a lot of the time in this unconscious state when we grow up and then being told that we're not good enough and we have all these fears. and then we spend our adult life, I believe, or whenever we start, undoing all of those fears,

unlearning them, coming back home to the truth of who we were when we were born. So it's like we go through this like, we're born, we're super connected to love, we're super connected to the truth, we are super in our power, we are expressive, we are expansive, we are playful, fun, all of the things that we came here to be. And then the ego comes in and we start to lose ourselves and lose ourselves and lose ourselves, then we're like, who the fuck am I anymore? And then the path of finding yourself again begins. And it's like, can you allow yourself to have a messy, imperfect and very beautiful human experience?

Like, this is the human experience. We didn't come here to be perfect. We didn't come here to get it all right. We came here to fuck it up. We came here to learn, stumble, grow and expand. And forgiveness is such a key part in that. This world needs more forgiveness. It needs more gentleness.

It needs more compassion and grace and empathy. and one of the reasons why we're in the situation that we are in the world is because people are disconnected from love. They are so lost in their ego. They are so lost in judgment of other people. They are so lost in pointing the finger and blaming everyone else and not taking accountability for themselves. That's why we're in the pickle that we're in.

And we are in a pickle. We are in a pickle. And the whole world needs shadow work. That's what I believe. You've done a lot of shadow work. And for other people who have also done a lot of shadow work, How is it then possible to have relationships with people, have stable, enjoyable relationships with people who haven't done any

and whose shadows are still very much present and dark? How does that relationship then work? And what do you advise people who are struggling with this dynamic now? Oh, God. honestly it's hard because when you've done a lot of healing on yourself and you're very self-aware to be in a relationship with someone

who isn't willing to do the healing and isn't very self-aware it's not that one of you's better than the other one nobody's better than anyone else it's not a superiority thing it's not a holier than vow thing it's not I'm better than you I've done more work than you one of my old coaches said this on a

workshop she was like if two people are in a relationship and one of them has met themselves here and one of them has met themselves here, then that's as deep as the relationship is going to go. And this person is going to feel that frustrated because this person's not going to meet them there. And that's my experience. And it's like, that's why I'm single. So three years. There's not necessarily like a perfect answer to that. No, it's like you want to meet someone who's on your depth, right? Who's met themselves as deeply as you've met

yourself that understands life on the same level that you understand life that can and I believe in a relationship for me what I value is the calling each other further into our depths further into our power further into our healing as a journey not as a thing that nobody's going to come into your life and be perfect nobody I'm not perfect they won't be perfect it's the willingness to go within and do the work it's the willingness to constantly self-reflect and show up from the most vulnerable, honest and open place with an open heart. It's not to be perfect. It's just, honestly, just have an open heart and be willing to learn and grow.

That's it. And if someone's not willing to learn or grow, then they're already cut off from the relationship growing, if that makes sense. So for me, on a personal level, I couldn't because it's frustrating. And I think that's when people outgrow people. And that happens a lot in relationships. You know, one of them will go on a bit of a spiritual journey, or they'll go to find themselves and they'll discover things about themselves.

And the other person will say, I'm not interested in that. And then that's when you hit a road and you go, I don't know if this is going to work. I'm not sure if you're right for me. And that's okay too. I say to live with an open hand. It's like let things come in and out of your life without grabbing onto them. They will come and they will go at the right time in the right moment.

If you can just live like that and just say, okay, if you're not right for me right now, let it go. That's so peaceful. So peaceful. Sorry, I'm like quizzing you. I'll do these like questions. But on a practical level, if you're with someone, like, I'm thinking of an example, like, back when I was a teenager, probably older than that, I used to say, like, not very nice things about women. And when I'm around people now who say not, like, negative things about women now, it's obviously extremely jarring, but I feel, I don't know what to say. I don't know how to handle it.

I don't know what to do. Yeah. What is your advice for those situations? Do you think that's a moment for like... I do. My area's energy is like, say something. But I think as well it's safe. Again, we come back to compassion,

we come back to non-judgment because we've been people who have been mean about other women. We know how that feels. We know where it comes from. We know that it's very much a cultural thing. It's like been like ingrained in us to act that way. We learn it from our mothers. We learn it from my magazines.

We learn it from the world around us. It's conditioning. And it's like, how could you come at that? and be like, hey guys, like, let's just hear ourselves right now. We're talking quite meanly about this person, and I think we can do better than this. Like, I think that we are better than this. And I think coming at it from a place of like, I don't bitch about women anymore and you still do and you're wrong and I'm right. Like, that's what isn't going to work.

People are going to get defensive. But if you can be open-hearted and non-judgmental and call people into their power and be like, hey, we have a choice here. Can we do better than this? Yes, we can. Let's make a new choice. That then gives people a chance to, like, self-reflect and be like, do I actually want to say these things? Do they feel good?

Because they don't. Like, they have an emotional payoff in the moment because we get this false sense of connection when we bitch and when we gossip, right? We get this false sense of like, oh, she hates her too. And we all hate her in this room. And that feels really good. My self-worth feels really strong now. But it is a false sense of satisfaction and connection.

It's not real. Thinking about that this morning, it's really weird how we want to hate other. And I know it's because we've been conditioned to, Even with that, it's still fucking weird. Yeah. But like we see a woman, we're just, the fact that we're looking for things, we are always looking for things not to like. Yeah.

Yeah, it's active. It's active. Yeah. We're not being wronged by people. We are deliberately looking for and waiting for somebody to fuck up or do wrong or wrong us or whatever. And I actually find it, I was really trying to think about it. I'm having a lot of deep thoughts at a moment. I was like doing my teeth

I think it's fucking weird Because you're having a child Yeah It is making me Look at the world funny Yeah But yeah That really stresses me

But that must just be We're all just in the shadows Right Well I think we can just Observe it as like You know If any behaviour Come from fair

It's a shadow behaviour And that's just It's cool to look at it that It's actually really liberating to see that It's like Oh that's my shadow But it's also kind of nice

To feel like Your purpose is like If everybody's in the shadow Like your role Like Megamores saying it's Instagram account. Like, it's pulling people out of it. And it's like, and like putting a light on everything.

Isn't that so nice? Well, I like to shine a light on it. They have to pull themselves out. I can only shine a light. This is where the martyr shadow comes in. It's like, I'm not doing anything really other than holding up a mirror. And some people will not look in that mirror and they won't see it. And they'll go, what the fuck is she on about?

I'm whatever I don't want to know. And some people will go, oh, fuck. And that's the goal. Oh, fuck. That's what I'm here for. Yeah. You're smashing it. Thank you.

I could have talked about 45 minutes. I know. I know, I'm really sad at the time. It's been really nice to talk about it. I don't think I've ever had such a big conversation about it. And it's really nice after years of doing it to actually fully just speak on it. It feels good. I think this is going to be so, oh, fuck for so many people.

Yeah, I do as well. Because, yeah, but then it's a bit like, then I feel sorry for everyone listening because they'll be like, shit. I have to stop putting the fence now. Yeah. But it gets to be fun. It gets to be fun. For people who have the means to afford a coach and some professional help, where do you suggest looking?

Do you know what? I think Instagram is such a good place to find people. Personally, I found all of my coaches through Instagram and word of mouth. Ask around people who you might know that have done work that you want to do. People who inspire you, maybe ask them. If you see someone, you're like, oh, I like that person's energy. I like what they're doing with their life. I feel like my, your soul knows, your intuition knows.

So just like DM them, ask them like, hey, do you have a coach? Or if you see a coach that you think you like, that specialises in this kind of thing, then like go for it. Like message them, find out, you know, how much they cost, see if you can get like an intro call with them. And then, yeah, do a little bit of research because it's not easy to throw money at something. And then, you know, I've had coach in the past where I've been disappointed. I've been like, wow, that was expensive.

and I made that quite impulsive decision to go with this person and it's not been what I thought it was. Yeah, do a bit of research. Do some research, definitely, yeah. And for people who can't afford, who don't have the means for professional help, do you have any resources, like any books or any like YouTube channels that you really rate?

There's a lot of people that do workshops and things that are more for like groups and I do workshops as well. So it's like you can access those for like 40 quid or like 22 quid. There's a lot of, like, affordable ones. And then most coaches who offer coaching will also offer lower-priced, lower-tiered things for people to have access to. Then there's YouTube.

I mean, I did a lot of learning about inner child work on YouTube. I would always check the credibility of the person that's talking about it, the comments underneath, see what people got from it, like if it helped them. And then a lot of meditations that I do on, like, Insight Timer I use is a great meditation app. And there's a book that, I can't remember her name, a psychologist just released called, is it called How to Do the Work?

Or like, it's like a journal for people who want to start looking within themselves. Okay, nice. The holistic psychologist, I know that she could be a bit of a, people have angrily messaged me for following her. So I'm not sure what the, I actually haven't looked into any of that. But I know that she does amazing work, helping people with the inner work. Yeah, so she's just released like a book on, like a work. book. So something like that is probably a really good place to start. I've checked out the

reviews and stuff. So it looks good. So things like that. If you go dig, I always go digging for stuff. Like if there's something I want to look at, I'm interested. I'm just like, on Amazon, I'll buy a few books and you can start for next to nothing, really, for 20 quid, you can start. I've bought a few books that you've recommended, but because I have an aversion to reading for some reason, I struggle. I see reading and I'm like, how do you do? She's like, I've just finished another book. It took me an hour and a half. something wrong with me. It's definitely something wrong with you.

I don't know how you have time for books and social media. I'm like, where does she... I don't, though. That's it. If you notice, if I've ever been really quiet on social media, it's because I've read a book. Like on a Saturday. Like Saturday, I don't go on Instagram. Do you read a whole book in a day?

Yeah, I would do, yeah. Do you read fast? Yeah, super fast. And then at like, that's probably my most arse DM. It's like, how do you read to fast? I'm like, I do. You're one of those... It's like a superpowers.

It's a high-special scanner reader. I cannot watch TV. Yeah. I can't, I can't watch films and I'll watch a film and then I'll finish the film and then someone will be like, hey, have you seen that film? And I'll be like, no. And my brother will be like, literally just watched it. Like, it drives everyone mad. But that's amazing because I feel like social media has been so distracting for my brain that I used to sit down and read books all the time. Like I would finish one in a week. Like a normal person. That's my standard. That's what I'm working towards most weeks. I feel like I can't do it anymore. I'll stare at the page in my mind somewhere else and the words are gone. It's a massive relief for me to put a book, to put my phone down and pick a book up. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, so I do it at nighttime.

Might need lessons. I'd have to read my, read my book before bed. Put my loamy light on. Oh, I love loamy light on and read my books. Horsome shit. I love that. That is awesome. Yeah.

Yeah, because I just, I don't, I'm not in the business of watching what everybody else is doing anymore. Yeah. Like, I just, I don't care. I just, I want to sit at home and read my book. Have you read stolen focus? No. Oh, that book's amazing. It's amazing.

It's about, I remember the author's name, I'm so forgetful, but like, I think it's called Johann Harry. Amazing. And do you know what? I haven't read a book from start to finish in years because I just find, I pick them up,

open them on random pages, take place of inspiration, but like this book, I couldn't put it down. Really? Yeah, the subhead is why you can't pay attention. I'm going to buy it for you right now.

Oh, Alex, you'll love it. It's amazing. I had a lot of oh fuck moments in that book. I was like, holy sure. I just don't trust myself to read it, but I'm going to buy it. But if I could read it, I think you can because I'm like you,

I was hooked. Do you know what happens though when you're reading it? You're going to want to delete all your apps and stuff. Really? Yeah, because you'll read it and be like, oh my God, my brain's being fried. Could you read it just after I've had the baby? Because it would be like, that's fine. I don't care if you want to like fuck up your life when I'm off work.

But if you want to do it before, it's going to be the incomplete. Delete all the apps. But brilliant, she's quit. I am unstable enough to do that as well. I live in fear. Thank you so much. going to leave those links to the books in the show notes and we'll leave a link to your Instagram account as well. I am sure a lot of people listening to this will

already follow Megan because we both share your stuff a lot but also if you don't please go and follow her. Oh thanks. Thank you so much for being here. You're so welcome. Thank you. This feels very like cathartic to have this conversation and I feel like it's been really nice to talk about it and hopefully there is some O-Fox so. Will you come back again? Yeah, will you come back? 1,000%. Yes. Oh yeah. Yeah. We'll go deeper as well not to end on really... Yeah, we can talk about

death. Fear of death is a big one. Yeah, and that's something I'm super interested about your work on that. So you've got to come back. There you go. We've roped you in, part two.

Yay! Thank you. Thank you. Bye. Should I delete that is part of the ACAS creator network.