Should I Delete That? - Holly Hagan on being body shamed and selling weight-loss teas

Episode Date: January 17, 2022

In this episode of ‘Should I Delete That?’ Em and Alex talk to the lovely Holly Hagan about her drastic shift in perspective when it comes to diet culture. Holly recalls the early abuse she received from trolls and the media, who put pressure on her to change her appearance but then judged her when she did so. She chats about the importance of having the space to make mistakes online and learn from them. The girls also get candid about marriage, contraception mishaps and even peeing in the shower!Follow us on Instagram @shouldideletethatEmail us at [e-mail] by MindlerMindler is an online therapy app, offering video call sessions with psychologists. Self-help programmes are also available in the app, covering a range of diagnoses.https://bit.ly/3K7rU8JProduced & edited by Daisy GrantMusic by Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On October 17th, I'm an angel, see them wings? Don't miss the new comedy Good Fortune, starring Seth Rogen, Aziz Ansari, and Keanu Reeves, critics rave, it's haven't sent. Don't you have a budget, guardian angel? Kind of. You were very unhelpful. Good fortune, directed by Aziz Ansari. If you are struggling with mental health and it's something that's impacting your daily life or you just need someone to talk to, we would love to introduce you to this week's sponsor, Mindler, an app that we're really pleased to share with you because it is helping to make a therapy. accessible. Mindler is a digital healthcare provider that offers online therapy with psychologists via

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free session. And the code is valid until the 28th of February 2022. Oh my God, why did I post that? Ah, I don't know what to do. Should I delete that? Yeah, you should definitely delete that. You go. There you go. No, you're really good starting. You go. Come on.

Fine. Hi. Hi. We're back. Welcome back. Welcome to episode two slash three of the podcast. It's like how many do you have to have before it becomes a pattern? Like how many until we're just podcasts is?

Yeah. Yeah. Because I still feel like we're playing right now. Yeah, I'm not quite there yet, even though it's in my bio and my email signature and pretty much like literally um yeah I don't think I'm quite there yet because I don't feel like I still don't enjoy listening to myself back I feel uncomfortable listening to myself back well to funnily enough today's episode Alex and I both so proud of and so excited for you guys to listen to but when we were talking about it I was like the episode the interview was fantastic like naturally I despise

myself but the interview is really good I listened to it and thought oh god I take over and then was like i talk too much so basically i think we just have to stop reading into it and just or stop listening back or stop listening back yeah we'll just make that for you guys yeah sorry today's episode is such a good one exciting and actually like i feel like we could just do with like shutting up cracking on because i want to get to the interview as soon as possible definitely i kind want to tease it but then i also feel like it's just best to hear from the guest herself because this is not as exciting we are not as exciting we are not as exciting that's fine we know that about ourselves. Yeah. Should we just crack on?

Let's go. Let's kick it off with our first segment. The good, the bad, the awkward. The good. The bad. And the awkward. Okay. I don't think this is my original good. I seem to have forgotten my good. After two minutes of M trying to work out what she had planned for the good.

I've forgotten. But something really good did happen today and that is after two years, I finally set my wedding invitations out they've started landing on my friend's doorsteps this is a point of wedding planning that i have yet to get to personally we've we've smashed through a lot of other milestones we've done a few of them twice this is almost twice but this is a is a first and i'm absolutely gassed i'm a little bit like fatigue i think a lot i mean you obviously pushed your wedding as well i feel like a lot of people have had to push their weddings in the scheme of life it's not that bad but it's been a feck and pain yeah it has been a pain in the ass it's actually

quite nice to just feel like a modicum of excitement again to like you know it's actually going to happen i know i'm going to give myself away willingly to a man and he's going to own me for the rest of my life and i can't wait yay you didn't change your name oh my god we i could do i i don't know and actually i i opened this up on my instagram like someone sent in a thing a question on my Instagram about this the other day and we were talking about it and I've been thinking about it and I just I don't know I you know I don't want to give I don't want to give my name what I mean it's so hard it's so hard isn't it's a minefield and it made me realize like how easily like everyone else that gets married just makes the decision like it's I can't I still can't decide I don't know I think you know what

where I'm currently at is that I will okay definitely personally okay only because I think from like a family unit it makes logical sense but professionally maybe I've built up too much of my brand with my own name so I don't know but I did get quite a lot of like heated DMs being like you're a bad feminist if you give your name away and I was like hmm

like please that's annoying but yeah surely we've moved past that well you'd think but you're you're a double barreller and no we haven't decided yet still not decided yeah I just can't decide but those you're in the incredibly great situation where both names are absolutely stunning but put them together meelia light it sounds

like a diet yogurt i love it mealia like i think it's so nice i love it i think it's nice but mealy is stunning meelia's lovely it's stunning yeah great names clarkson fine Andrew fine you know yeah you couldn't put yours together no you wouldn't you wouldn't rush no like no one's gonna be like I'm jealous of her name great thing is that you don't have to decide before you get married you can get to get married I'm like oh my god too late but you can just decide like whenever you can just keep going until someday it like comes to you like an epiphany that's what I'm waiting for at some point I'm going to be like that's it that's what I'm going to have on your grave so they'll be like Alex question mark question mark question mark what was your good this week my good was that I finally after a long period of having to keep it quiet which isn't you know, which I'm not very good at, I announced my book. Yay! Finally! Finally!

And like did a little pre-order, like people can pre-order now. And it's all written. It's all done and it's going to be in people's hands soon. And it was terrifying. It's horrible. And I still, I've built my, I've psyched myself up to get some kind of backlash,

which I'm waiting for. But the reception was so positive. What do you think you've done? You've written a great and helpful and brilliant and honest book and it's so exciting yeah but it's not going to work for everyone and I know that because I can't produce something I don't think that's going to work for everyone do you know how many copies of the Bible are sold and that doesn't work for everyone yeah that's true you need to give yourself a break I know it's it's worked out and I've just I think I had like

just too many sleepless nights over it and you know anxiety the industry's worst kept secret though I mean how many people did you tell me I told so many people because I started up by saying like, oh, love, I'm just like telling anyone who DMs me. So everyone was DMing me. So I was up all night being like, it's a buck. So it wasn't a surprise to hardly anyone awkward. Yeah. So I made a huge song and dance out of it as in like I was terrified about what was going to happen. I didn't sleep for three days. Dave was like, but it's me, you know, it wasn't going to go, it wasn't going to go that smoothly. So are you proud of yourself really proud yeah it was it keeps saying this and i feel like i'm i don't want to put

too much negativity around it but it was so hard yeah like harder than i ever imagine in my entire life and i've got so much respect for authors just that's it end of sentence like so much respect so hard at that like because your deadline was the end of last year and it was just like you just couldn't breathe for working yeah and i don't i don't know people like you that you you get so good and so involved in what you're doing that you'll just go days without leaving the house like you you know you throw yourself into stuff so brilliantly yeah and i feel like i'm like all or nothing like that like i either can't think about it or i can't not think about it so i don't think i'm the ideal author but it ended up working but like i was saying on instagram the hardest part

was having to learn how to interpret studies and medical journals and i yeah it was it was almost beyond me it was like very close to being beyond me but you suffered for the greater good because the book will be fat. We will benefit for your like horrific year. Horrific. Please buy it. But you were doing that at the same time as trying to get married. Yes. The deadline was that week. It was the week I got married was my book deadline. It's a lot. Chaos. And you also, and I think we should talk about this at a later date and whenever you're comfortable, but it was a big part of your finding your own ADHD diagnosis as well, wasn't it? Like trying to go through the process of writing the book. Yes. It's kind of interesting in like a self-discovery sort of way. It was really,

interesting because before that I'd kind of been like no that's not me that I don't you know I just I really don't think that's me and then it bickie I became quite clear the more that I was physically unable to cope and Dave was like we need to do something I'm like maybe I should look into that idea again um so so yeah that's my good well it's a huge good oh thanks huge good I feel awkward now you know when you're like talking about your own like things how great are you thank you and well we can bring you back down to earth if you want we can just go with the bad Yeah. What's your bad?

Personally, I've been an absolute mess this week because I've been back and forth on whether or not adopting a second dog was a good idea. And we've landed on the side of not just for right now. But that was a decision that literally like ripped my heart out.

I named him. I got way too attached. And that was just made me just so upset, you know. I have to say though, you made the decision with the dog, potential dog's best interests in mind, which I really respect. It wasn't, it didn't come down to like, you know,

it wasn't about you guys it was about the dog and I really think that was great I think you just particularly with rescuing you've got to be you've got to make sure that it is the best situation

for all dogs because we already have Boer and this guy and us and everything and there will be other dogs and it's going to be absolutely stunning and Boa will have her little brother it just really sadly isn't this guy

and that's gutting so I was I literally have Monday I think I just like cried all day because I was saying goodbye to a dog that I didn't even own And I wanted that to be my bad, but actually I think we would be remiss not to acknowledge just some horrific news right now. On the day of recording, the news is about a 23-year-old teacher who was on a run in Cateophily, in Ireland where she's from,

and she's called Ashling Murphy, and she was murdered whilst on a run. and I think on the first podcast episode that Alex and I did we talked about 2021 and we talked about Sarah Everard's murder in March and then we talked about Sabina Nessa's murder in September and all the women that were murdered in between and I don't know I just felt this heaviness and devastation that this had happened again obviously my partner Alex is Irish he's from Dublin so a lot of our friends out there you know we're sharing it this morning and I think maybe the same way that South London felt when Sarah died, I think obviously a lot of Irish people will be feeling with Ashling's murder and it's just, you know, it's just horrific to read. So it's just same shit, different day really. And I think we do need to keep making noise about this. Fuck knows what we're meant to do about it because it does just feel completely hopeless.

But to not say these girls' names is not the answer. So I just wanted to give some space to say, rest in peace to Ashtling Murphy and how sorry we are that this is still happening. You did a really powerful Instagram post this morning about it as well, but I think everyone should go and check out that it made me cry, actually. It made me feel really emotional reading it. It's just, yeah, it's horrific and it does feel quite helpless and quite hopeless because, like, what at this point, like, what can we do?

Yeah. Well, we keep making noise. We keep making noise. That's it. You just, we can't lean into. And you know what? This has pissed me off so much. I think, you know, the thing that a lot of women are feeling is anger

because we're also dealing with Boris Feckon Johnson. You know, like, oh, I thought it was a work party. And, you know, it's just the news right now just feels like, you know, women are begging for help and the country is just fucking exhausted after two years. And the government are just a bunch of tossers. And so, I don't know, it's all just felt a bit fucking shit. Heavy. Sorry, bad language.

And, you know, the thing with the government, the thing that's really stressing me is, it's just he's a meme he's a goddamn joke and it's like why are we laughing at this guy like he's a dick it annoys me that it's it annoys me how comical he you know he is do you know what I mean like does that make sense I am and I'm one of the memes that I shared about him recently and it was a meme it was a picture of him and his hair looked just like out of control like wild as it kind of usually does like whatever I don't really care it's his like bedridden look whatever um and the meme was like don't let anyone ever say that black hairstyles are

unprofessional ever again literally i thought that was so brilliant he looks like he's got a balloon and just like rubbed it against his head and but you know i i've heard that he does that on purpose does he yeah to make it look like he's got the haphazard like oh my like like bumbling haphazard you know what am i like just one of the lads you know i don't brush my hair like that's i don't do that that's for cissies oh you know i'm a man i just grow my hair I honestly, I think it does And I think he does it Where did I hear this?

That he rumbles, rumbles, ruffles it up Before he does his press things and everything I mean, that makes sense Because I feel like it has to be intentional Because it's so ridiculous It can't be accidental, do know what I mean? How have we just like left into like Forest of Johnson there? Oh my God, we've really taken a turn here, haven't we?

We have let's let, I mean, like, what's our bad? The government. What's your bad? Yeah, so on a very personal level I talked in the first episode about how I'd had my coil taking out the marina coil and i was waiting to get my period back and i kind of still am like i feel like it might be there but i'm just really stressing out about it i don't know it's just it's just

stressing me out it's really horrible when i mean because i've had the coil in for so long and you just don't know what is going on with your body you just have no insight and i'm just like desperate for it to come back and for me to like feel it again so i don't know you've been under a lot of stress though as well which i think is probably counts for something but do you know what i don't think stress is ever like like prior to me having the coil like affected my periods or i mean the only time my periods were affected when i was like really like like anorexic but apart from that i don't they've always been like super regular so it just feels a bit weird now and it's been like over six weeks and i'm a bit like oh so yeah that's my bad i'm just letting myself like get stressed about it

even though I shouldn't, and I should probably just... But I mean, you know what it's like when you look online? There's so much conflicting information. People like, it should come back straight away. And for you, it came back within two weeks, right? Yeah, mine... I was waiting for six years, and I think it was just like, oh, right there. Fuck, I'm pretty desperate.

I've been waiting for this. But I thought that was quite normal, and then I realized I was an anomaly. Like, I think two weeks is pretty quick. Everyone I was speaking to, it's like, whoa. So that, like, I think you're fine. everyone's everywhere says something different so i've decided to stop googling it because it like it just yeah everyone is different and we'll see but it's not a big deal it's just like it's it's my bad as in like i'm letting it stress me out but i think it's indicative again of like a complete lack of conversation

around this stuff like why don't you know we don't know anything about ourselves or there's like corkscrew of a device you've had in your fecking uterus for like the best part of five years and then oh it's out and then all good luck like you literally just walk out the guy and he like all right see you later you really do don't you yeah well they show me mine they're like you want to see it i was like yes i coughed mine out same yeah she's like a little cough i like did it do a big cough i was like all right then how big do you want me to go you ready um someone sent me in a um an embarrassing story once on my instagram that she coughed when she was having a smear in the speculum popped out and hit the doctor in the face

it's so good dying for her oh my god um I know. But yeah. It's quite funny that they show you. I thought that's quite interesting. We should definitely do an episode about contraception. And I know just for now that we need to get in. I think so.

Daisy is fascinated by contraception. Our producer, Daisy, who's a lesbian, is fascinated. Yeah, watch this space contraception episode because I still, I'm 33 years old and I'm pretty clueless about contraception. Like I've heard of the pill and the coil and I don't really know anything else. I only got the coil because my friend was like, it's amazing. And I was like, okay. I mean, the marina coil was for me, like just unreal.

Like, I thrived. I absolutely loved it. Me too. But, oh, God, we need a contraception episode because you know what? Now I'm like I'm thriving. You know, I've downloaded natural cycles, having avoided it because I saw it all over Instagram. And I was like, I will not be influenced this direction. And then I was like, fuck it.

And now I have it. And I'm like, wow. I love it. I download it actually. It's so interesting. Got nothing to track at the moment, but the moment I do. It's so interesting to just watch, I don't know, to just get to know yourself. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, I'm still waiting to thrive. I feel like I just loved having it in, even though I wasn't quite convinced I had it in because I went to South Africa shortly after getting it in, which was very nice. The shower, I was in, where we were staying, the shower was kind of outside, right? And there was like a twig on the floor of the shower. And I thought that it'd come out while I showered. and the twig was the coil so like I picked up this twig and like I put it

I did I did I forgot about this actually so I'll just talk about it but I put it in tissue paper and like basically like carried around with me we went to two more hotels and like I took it with me because I was like I think this is my coil and like it was like looking back it was just a twig but I just wasn't convinced so I like one of my best friends is a GP so I sent her the picture and was like do you think is this a twig or be my coil and she was like it's a fucking twig you moron i was like all right all done thank you oh my god you've been it and did she like carried around like a little like of my baby that's the funniest thing i've ever heard how did you think it fell out i just thought when i was showering it just like slipped out of me and i was like i was like that

twig was not there before so it must be my coil idiot oh my god that's my movie favorite thing I've ever heard in my life. Oh, my God. I'd like to say this was a long time ago, but it wasn't. It really wasn't that long ago. What is your awkward this week? It's just so fucking lame. Like, I'm actually just really embarrassed to tell you.

But I was in the gym this morning, and I leant forwards, and my gum fell out my mouth. Oh, no. It's just so embarrassing. It's just so gross. And it didn't even land on the floor. It landed on my own tits. because they were like in the way

so then I just wanted to like look down like with my other chin and I was like oh and I just like pick it up and put it back in my mouth you didn't put it back in your mouth oh my god it's so great I was trying to be subtle

so I just like slipped it back in and then I got a tissue and then I put it in the tissue and then I put it in the back pocket but it was really it was just like oh my fault Chris I'm just a loser you know what I mean

it's not even like that embarrar it's just oh god it's one of those things where it's like really embarrassing for no particular reason but like I'm embarrassed for you hearing that like I'm playing out of my head and I'm like I'm ashamed for you and I was only fading the wall as well I don't even think anyone saw but I know it felt shameful yeah now everyone else knows if I wasn't worried like the six people in my class knowing then I am about the thousands of people that will now

listen to this episode you're welcome yeah what was your awkward so my awkward is just it's more weird than awkward I guess but I bought a drum kit right and so like I your question might be do you play the drums answer is no um have you ever played the drums not really do you have the space in your flat for a drum kit absolutely not we do not have the space at all so for that reason i was looking out i was looking at roll out one that you literally put on the table right great but as i was looking i came across one that's like a full one like a full drum kit that you can you know you can just do a lot more on them and you can really learn learn better So I was like...

You don't even play the drums. And you've got... I'm pulled. It's so silly. It's huge. Look. Look, right. No, I don't play the drums, okay?

But I feel like, you know, you just feel it in your bones that this is my thing, right? And I really feel like this is my thing. Phil Collins. And I thought rather. than, rather than go in with something that might not be that good, you know, the small roll out one, I was like, I'm just going to go all in to Dave's dismay. He keeps looking at it like, I'm not putting that up for you. I'm like, you have to? What have you got a drum gift for? And you've not even got it out of the box, have you? Not yet, no, because I can't, I can't

assemble things. I can't do it. So Dave has to do it. But at the moment, he's just trying pretend it doesn't exist which is understandable it's the least sociable thing like it's it's like i can't think of anything less i don't know you know what i mean like i knit sometimes and i'm like well that's annoying nothing nothing nothing this is more annoying than the only thing more annoying than a drum kit is a viola and that's only in sound because at least that small a drum kit's Yeah, it is, it is big. You're going to have to start eating your dinner off it to make the most of the space you're in a London flat.

We'll have a symbol each. Don't write me off yet. Like, I know it sounds coming through next week. I know it sounds ridiculous and I have no doubt that this drum kit is going to be on eBay in like two weeks time. But don't write me off just yet. Who knows? I know.

Crazier things have happened. When? When? Like, name me one. all right good point but look it's never too late i'm only 33 and i could i could change career right why are you telling me that episode two into our new career together this partnership it's over don't worry i'm not leaving you you're going to be like fleet with mac i'll stop i'll stop with like the random rock references now and we can go we can go into the

interview okay if you're ready i'm ready i'm excited will you introduce i am so ready Or guest. Yes. So today's guest is Holly Hagan, who I'm sure a lot of you will have heard of. Holly was on hit TV show, Geordie Shaw, for 10 years, which made her a household name with millions of followers on Instagram. At some point in her career, Holly started marketing weight loss products on Instagram, and those ads drew a lot of criticism, but rather than double down, she really listened to

the criticism and change her perspective on body image, weight loss products. product and diet culture and actually she publicly denounced and continues to denounce the products that she had previously been paid to promote. Because of this, we thought that she would offer us a really interesting perspective as someone who has really been on both sides, someone who was invested in diet culture to the point of promoting those products, and now was someone who is on the other side of that and actively speaks up against that industry. We also got to hear a bit more about Holly's life and what it was like being in the public eye and that has actually really given us, I know Emma agrees, it's really given us a lot to think about and we've both

come out of it with a lot more compassion than we had previously. So here she is, Holly Hagan. Hi, Holly. We are so, so excited to have you on and chat to you. As I told you before we started recording, I put a question box out on Instagram stories about who people wanted to hear from around like diet culture in January. And so many people suggested you because we thought it would be a really interesting perspective from someone who has really been immersed in diet culture and kind of come out the other side of it. Well, thank you for asking me to come on. I mean, I did say before I didn't add that I don't actually say yes to a lot of podcasts. Mainly because I mean, I don't know. I don't want to repeat the same things over and over. So it's nice

when I get to speak about things that I'm actually passionate about. And when you obviously said what this was about, I thought, yes, I am the perfect person to talk about this. Yeah, you are, because it's quite interesting because you have really seen, like, all sides of it, I guess, and really been involved in all sides of it from, like, selling diet culture products to, like, now, like, denouncing the culture. So that's very interesting. And also growing up at the same time, I think you're 20, 20, in your 20s. I'm 29, yeah. 29 like we grew up at a time that's like you also as well as everything you're doing now you were also a victim of it for like your whole adolescence and then probably like on acid because you were doing you know you were in the spotlight so young yeah 100% I mean we all grew up in the years where you would see slim fast on the shelves and you know all of those things that were in holland and barrett I mean a lot of the diet culture products are in holland and barrett which is a health store and I think growing up you see these things and you think it's normal and all of

obviously magazines and TV and whatever. There was never this whole, like, body positive, body confidence community that there is now. I think it's, like, such an amazing thing. But, yeah, it's like I've bought them, I've tried them, I've sold them, and now I'm against them. So, yeah, it's full circle, isn't it? Full circle. And I think in order to get, like, a full picture of your story, we'd love to go back to the beginning if you're okay with that. And, like, if you could talk to us about your journey with your body and your relationship with your body from the story.

start and what informed it. I imagine you being on TV to millions of people across the world wasn't. It didn't help. I'm not going to lie. It didn't help your body image. But if we could start from the beginning, that would be great. Right. So, I mean, the first time I ever remember being called fat was in school. And it was, I was wearing the same skirt as my friend. And she looked at the back of mine and we were 10 years old at the time. And her skirt was in age 10. And she said, let me look at your size skirt. So I showed her my size and my size was a 13. And she was like, oh, that might as well be an adult size 10.

And this has come from a 10 year old. So that's the first time I ever remember feeling like there's something wrong with my body. And then we move on to kind of being in school. And I mean, I wasn't overweight in school. I mean, I was probably on the higher end of like, I wasn't slim. And I was always quite short. So I always had like quite dumpy legs. and, you know, I didn't, I wasn't problem with the model legs. Like, it just didn't happen.

Me neither. Um, and then we, we went through school and I was bullied relentlessly for being fat. And obviously, I've never had an issue with anybody in school. Like, somebody's weight to me was, was never a problem. I would never go up to somebody and think they were a bad person because they, they had a bit more weight on them. Do you know what I mean? That's not, it's not a thing. Um, but I do, I obviously know now that it kind of stems from, they, they, were probably getting bullied at home and there were parents were probably saying things to them and they've then went into school

and said stuff to other people. And it's a very cheap and quick insult. If you're like no offence to those kids, but lacking an imagination it was a very like punchy way of like knocking someone down. Obviously like for women like even for girls you know we're told we have to be small and we've to be all of this and it's just such a quick

way of knocking a woman down to be like oh yeah you failed. And that's the thing it is it's cheap and it's like a cheap dirty shot but it's also like unfortunately like really effective isn't it and it really cuts deep yeah because we feel because we grow up in this culture that tells us we have to be as small as possible being small is best like thin is best so that cuts then if someone's saying to you well you're not small therefore you know the implications of that are you're not worthy you're not

desirable so it makes sense do you think you know the saddest part is like that your friend saying that when when you were 10 that you know got that comment about your school skirt right like yeah I don't know I have a moment like that when I was 11 and this girl shamed me for having because I said she was like what did you have for breakfast and I was like oh I had um two bagels and she was like two bagels and I was like yeah and she was like do you mean two halves because two bagels would be really piggy and I was like yeah I mean two halves and after I never wanted more of one bagels and my mom would be like why aren't you eating your other bagels so I don't want to talk about it.

And it's like, you have one thing that, like, stays with you. That's meant probably with no harm. It's like an observation from a, like, kid, and it stays with you. Yeah, and it was even, like, so much as I've got the exact same body shape as my mom. So when we were on holiday, I always saw my mom cover her legs. And throughout my whole life, she's always said, we have to cover our legs. You know, we've got nice waist, we've got skinny waist, but we have to cover our legs. Nobody wants to see them.

And that wasn't her fault, but she didn't know that what she was doing is then passing that on to me because how could I ever love my legs when I've got the same ones as her and the person who I'm around, my whole life says she hates them. How do you ever learn to love yours

if your own mother says, you know, she's got to cover hers up so that means that I've got to cover mine. It was, I guess, setting you up to just dislike your body. Yeah, 100%. Think of it as something. think to be ashamed of and hide. So this is before TV. So Jesus Christ, let me move on to being actually on TV. So then we move on to kind of being in, being put on Jordy Shaw. And when I was at home,

all of me and my friends were like pretty much the same size. We were like, probably size 12 to 14. I mean, nothing that you wouldn't class like, you know, a normal woman as. And when I went on TV, it was that, you know, a few of the girls on there were slimmer. And that's fine. I was always quite confident. I do think that a lot of my confidence was like a front in the beginning. Like, I wasn't actually confident. I was just faking it. And I had the shortest skirts on, the most low cut tops. I even went for one of my first ever interviews with just two belt straps covering my nipples. Like, oh my god, it's wild. I've ever heard. I was wild and I loved it and I wasn't my body didn't bother me. Yes, I might have been bigger than some of the people on there, but it wasn't

an issue until I got out and until the show was on TV. And I actually remember the first ever article that was written about us. And they rated us all. They hadn't watched it. They hadn't watched it. They were judging off our looks. This magazine was rating us all out of 10. And I, bear in mind, they'd never met me. They hadn't watched the show yet. They were judging off the first ever picture that come out. And I was rated the lowest at 2 out of 10. Whereas the the girls were getting your like sixes or eights or whatever even just something mediocre i was like right at the bottom of the pile of the two that is so disgusting i don't know if i'm allowed to use the word i want to use but i mean is it the c word is it the c word yeah yeah unbelievable i mean it's

oh god it's like how old were you sorry so i was 18 at the time so you've got to think like i you know at 18 you think you know the world and you think that you're such an adult but actually I was a child. I'd never even had a Yeager bomb before I went on that show. Like I was very sheltered. I'd lived in a small town my whole life. And yeah. I had a lot of trolling when I was like 17 by not actually from commenters.

Like from like trolls, right? But they weren't really trolls. They were just, I mean, daily mail readers, right? So same thing. But, you know, when they caught, it's like, when you're a kid, it's like, I don't know, you think other kids are going to be mean, but you'd think adults are going to have a fuss. grip of themselves. Oh no, it's always adults. It's always

adults. And when you're a kid, you're like, what are you doing? You're an adult. Like, you're supposed to be nice to me. And they're so mean. And I'm like, why are you, why are you bullying a kid for? And I think people forget, particularly with the show that you did, because you do come across, you know, maybe that this is their justification, not that it counts, but that you're so confident. And it probably stems in jealousy. Like, they wish they could wear belts over their nipples. The fuck knows I couldn't. I really wouldn't. I could not. I could not. that it would be very graphic um but like it baffles me that a magazine like that got past like multiple people sign that off yeah that baffles me pitting like these women and that their looks against each

other to like rate them against each other it's so disgusting so this was this is when you were 18 and this is when the show first started yeah so this is 18 um and then we move on to kind of the show coming out and everything and oh my god it was like probably the worst reception ever from especially people in my hometown. Really? So I don't know if you've ever saw, but I, not so long ago, probably like the first lockdown, I actually found

an old Facebook group that was made about me and I called them all out. Good on you. Because I thought, do you know what, everyone said to me for so many years, like you've gone on that show, you deal with the repercussions. And I thought, well, do you know what? You wrote that on a public forum, so you deal with the repercussions. Thank you very much.

Amen. It works both ways. So yeah, I found that and it was really hard to read because there wasn't such thing as an internet troll then people were just saying it with their chests like people didn't care they were just they were saying all these awful things making up rumours about me like some horrific stuff did you know these people it was a facebook yeah i knew these people as well so one of them was my friend's dad oh my god oh adults full on adults some of them were people who i'd class as like really good friends we'd be out in town we'd got out drinking together when i was like 16 to 19

when I've got on TV. And then all of a sudden they were saying these awful things about me and making up rumours about me and the main thing that is always said is fat slag, fat slag, fat slag, fat slag, fat slag. And I'm like, I'm okay with being a slag. Like, that's absolutely fine.

But for some reason, the word fat was just so difficult to deal with because I just thought, if I can be a slag, that's fine. No one cares if somebody's a skinny slag. No one cares about skinny slags. But when you're a fat slag,

all of a sudden it's like some kind of awful thing and I thought well do you know what if I can just be pretty and skinny then these trolls are going to stop so from then on I made it my mission to be pretty and skinny and I did everything that I possibly could to try and get there which included the diet products the surgery all of that type of stuff which is 100% understandable like it you think that but a lot of people don't actually understand that a lot of people can't get it you can't understand it you can't and and people won't understand it but it's like it is it's insane and and to to have the word fat even weaponized the way that it was to you it's used so relentlessly and you've grown up in

you know even before it was targeted at you like we do grow up in a very fatphobic world you know like fat is a bad in quotation marks thing to be according to this society and then when people use it relentlessly as an insult like of course it's understandable that you want to do something about it because they are telling you it's a problem, like... Yeah. And in your case, I feel like it was a perfect storm, you know? Like, you started this show at 18, you received this barrage of hate,

and you continued to be, you know, on TV. It was... Of course you were going to go down that path. Of course. I mean, what other path could I have possibly chosen? Because it's just mind-blowing because of what I have very quickly realized is that, you know, when I did get slimmer

and I did lose the weight, people would say, oh, well, she's too skinny. Oh, well, she looked better before. And the comments all of a sudden go from, she's a flat-slaught actor, oh, she looked better before? Why did she mess with her face? What on earth would have made her do that to herself?

Hello? You did. You did. You literally did this. It makes me so angry. And you saying that, like, what are the choices you have? And you're so right, because body acceptance, like, it's big now and it's mainstream,

but it wasn't at the time. It was very underground. You know, there were a few, like, fat acceptance groups, but it was not in the mainstream at all. And the media was like fully focused on tearing women down and like making them hate their bodies. It didn't like it never came into my consciousness until like a couple of years ago like body acceptance. So what other choice did you have? Exactly. It's honestly there wasn't really any choice and I wish I'd have been like going through this in this industry now where there is so much out there. So much. So much.

so many people who are just freely just being them. And you never saw roles. You never saw cellulite. You never saw just women being women. And I think with Instagram, we all want to show our best. But I love this whole trend of like being real and whatever. And I know a lot of people say that they don't really like it.

And I think people do it just for likes. I don't care if someone's doing it for likes. Who cares? If someone's got Sally, like, show me it. I want to see it. I'll fucking like it. Yeah. I literally, I love it so much.

I just think it's like. it would have saved me, it would have given me, I'd have had years of my life back. Like, I'd have shaked myself considerably less had I, had it, no, that it was okay to keep my food in my body. You would have had at least, at least if not a different path, a different option, like another option. Yeah. So it's, yeah, it's, it's really sad.

So then what kind of started to happen is we would film Jonie Sean. I would have lost probably like half a stone before we'd film. But then we'd go and film in the house, which is six weeks living in a bubble, you've got no phone, you've got no access to your cards or anything, you can't buy your own food. So somebody's plying you with alcohol, only giving you unhealthy options for food, what then becomes my option. So, okay, that's when I started to make myself sick. And I was like, okay, well, this is just going to be a way that I can control gaining weight whilst I'm in the house. obviously it didn't really feel like an issue at the time and I didn't actually call it bulimia until probably

about even like a year ago that just wasn't even a word that really entered my head but that went on for like five years like it went on for such a long time was there any well like anybody keeping an eye on you I mean apart from like all the eyes on you but from a mental health standpoint like in their house or yeah so when obviously there's cameras everywhere we've got microphones on so it's pretty hard to hide something

like that um and then we well i got called into the office with one of the producers we actually had a really nice producer on this series and i still worked with with her this uh to this day she's really nice she's a mother herself as well so she was like really concerned um and she was just like really upset she was like why are you doing this like what what's the issue and i'm like well you're not giving us healthy food like i can't sit and eat cake away for six weeks every single night. I can't eat a kebab every single night. I can't perform like a hamster on a wheel for you every single day relentlessly on three hours sleep on yagerbombs and kebabs. Like how do you want me to then go outside of this show and to have to deal with that hate again and again and again.

So this is just what I'm going to do. And if you can't kind of give me another option, then what do you expect? Then I got sat on the phone with the psychiatrist and whatever. You have to do your little site calls and everything, you know. And I just told him the truth. I was like, I can't be in this house if they're going to keep doing this. I've got to find a way to also control my body. And then he kind of, he gave me all the advice, whatever. And then they did start kind of getting healthy food and whatnot. But by that time, it was already too late. I was already in it. Right. And was this, when, when, what year was this? Were you, because outside of Jordy's show, we were on Instagram as well. Like, was that a big part of your job

as well at the time. Yeah, so that was a huge part of the job. And I think this was series seven. So you're talking, oh God, series seven. You'd have to look up when series seven was. But I believe it would have been like maybe 2012, 2013 this started. Yeah, so Instagram was just starting getting popular. We were just starting to do promotions on Instagram.

And then I think around about this time is when all the diet culture products came about. and me being on TV, me talking about my weight issues and whatever, I was the perfect target for these companies. And I was quite happy to take these products and be like, oh my God, yes. Well, I've took this diet product, whatever it was. I get on the scales a week later and the scales have gone down. So to me, without having that education, this product worked. So for me, I'm like, well, it's not a bad thing.

And it wasn't seen as a bad thing in the beginning. No one really was talking about it. Like you say, they're in Holland and Barrett. You know what I mean? Like, and I was one of many customers that would have perceived them as like, health. Like, yeah, this will help me. And Finn is better and they're going to make me thin. So everything's going to be better.

It wasn't, they weren't like off the black market. You didn't have to like have a dealer to get them. You can literally walk into a high street store and pick them up. Yeah, exactly. So we didn't think anything of it. And then it was only after me promoting it probably about, I mean, happens to promote a day about three or four times different products here and there and you know you try them you lose the weight you tell people about it then you put the weight back on because obviously

it's just waterway and you've been crapping yourself for however long um and then you think oh well then i need to do it again it's obviously because i'm doing something wrong you don't realize that actually the product's the issue and it wasn't really until people started calling me out and i was like oh my god like what on earth is going on. I didn't realize how big of an issue it actually was because my education just wasn't there at the time. Right. And the calling it out, I mean, like, I actually think,

I'm really excited for this conversation because I think what we talked about this in last week's episode, it's so easy for like, particularly what Alex does, like, and for us kind of on this side of Instagram to fire shots or whatever. and go for like you described it as like low hanging fruit like for the to blame the individuals for a systemic problem yeah um and it's really like well i mean i think it's a really interesting conversation to have with an individual because you obviously you hear all of this with a backstory

now and you're like ah shit like everybody's a fucking victim but like what's it like to be on the other end of that is it confusing is it like because i imagine it's kind of almost like you understand it but you don't want to understand it because that gives you this kind of like cognitive dissonance where you feel really uncomfortable with your behaviours. Is that about right or is it just like? A hundred percent. I think it's very, it's very difficult because when people are telling you in such an awful way, I mean there's definitely ways to go about it and there's a very, there's a very nice and concerned way that you can go about it. The majority of the messages to me were absolutely brutal. You were giving girls eating

disorders like how would you feel if somebody died taking these products just really like it makes you sit and think oh my god and one of the things that somebody said was would you want your daughter taking these products and when i actually sat and thought about it i was like no i wouldn't i really wouldn't but at the time you're in a point where you were getting offered a lot of money to sell these products and promote them to try a product for five days to tell people the results of that product whether it worked or not obviously it's going because you should craping yourself you know and then you promote it and without that education and without the brand you know you think that a brand has to be legit you think they're a company they have to be legit otherwise

they would get you know called out for that but you know it's just so strange to be on the receiving end of it is absolutely horrific and you kind of think how could I have done something so wrong when I didn't believe that I had and I always say that you can only do what you can do with the education that you've got and if somebody wants to come and like educate me and tell me in a really nice way like why this is so wrong and when people did that I was like able to do the work behind it and see actually this is so bad and I need to say no and from that moment on I said I will never promote another diet product again but I think it's so awful because even now I promote health and fitness but I still talk about calories I still post meals with

calories on them on my social media and a lot of people tell me that that helps them but then there's a very small amount of people who my content isn't aimed at and who it they probably shouldn't be following me because they're being triggered by it so it I mean this the name of this podcast is is exactly that should I delete that because it's hurting a group of people it's a really difficult I mean like I think Instagram's still so new and crazy for that and I guess you You have had so much expectation put on you. And you couldn't have imagined going into a show at 18 for your cababs and Yeagerbonds that one day like 10 years later, people are going to be expecting you to be exactly what they need from you.

Because it's, you know, like I would want different things from, I have no right to ask anything of you. But as your followers, we or people have the expectation of you. And my expectation of you will be different to Alex's. and ours will both be different to like a bloke in like Dorset. You know what I mean? Like we're all going to want different things from you. You know, and I think it's so cool that you can see like maybe a turn you wouldn't have taken if you had the if you had the chance again. But and recognise that.

But as for now, it's like you are growing up and you have grown up entirely publicly and you have to be kind of given space to like be who you are and let other people work their way around that. And to learn as well. Like even just having, I made a promise to myself that after this whole drama with the diet products and whatever, that I was going to make it my mission to actually educate myself and to go out there and make sure that if I am going to put this information out there, it's going to be the correct information. So I went on to do a nutrition coaching course in the first lockdown. I've just passed my exercise to music level two. So I'm a qualified fitness instructor. And then now I'm also just doing my pre-impersonatal exercise as well. So I've been able to take on clients that have got, you know, if they were pregnant on an after pregnancy. And I think in these past two years, I've really made a point of going out of my way to show that I am making active changes, not just saying, oh yeah, I won't do that again, but actually making a point of reversing what I've done. And that was really important to me because there is a lot of people out there and a lot of influencers who don't actually have any

qualifications, who will not be willing to put the work in. And I just hope that people can see that I was willing to do that. I've spent thousands on these buddy courses and I love them and I love getting that education but it's genuine it really is and I just hope that people can see that we should have space to make mistakes but we should all be given the opportunity to learn from them as well. Definitely and evolve and like you said you know you were 18 on TV like I didn't know my ass from my elbow at 18. I can't imagine if I was put on TV at 18 you know, and also, you know, no one should, like, you don't owe being a role model to anyone either. Well, this is the thing. It's, it's, a lot of people used to say you're not a role model, you're not a

role model. And I used to actually have in my Instagram bio, ain't no role model, because everyone used to say it all the time. And I just wanted to, like, nip it in the bud before anyone could say anything. Now I do kind of feel like there's a part of me that wants to be a good influence. I wouldn't so much just say, like, role model, but I want to put the right message out there and yeah it's just like you just grow up don't you i mean i'm really 30 now and i'm going to have kids of my own hopefully in a few years and i want to make sure that like my trauma that my triggers aren't being passed on to them in the same way that you know my mother passed them on to me unintentionally yeah i think that's the same for like so man i mean i

i talk to my followers so much going into christmas about like oh god i hate going home because my mom that says this and says this and you know i think that's a really exciting part of like this generation and the education because you said it so many times and you're so right it's education and we just didn't have it our mums didn't have it so we didn't have it and we're so lucky because we've got this incredible tool to teach us and we've got you know like really amazing women who are behaving the way and teaching us and stuff but it's like it's actually thanks to mistakes and I put that in quotation marks but like you know it's thanks to your learning on the job you had to do it incredibly publicly but you know it's thanks to like that that that evolution that everybody else

benefits so like I don't know I mean like probably thanks but like also it must have been horrible for you because it's just yeah it must have been horrible and I'm actually I'm wondering if any of the the products that you promoted whether any of the companies kind of offered you support like when you were being called out for it no so they um actually because I was in Vegas at the time. So, oh God, you're talking maybe 2016, 2017. And this was the time that I got really abused because I put up a grid picture of me with this diet product. Anyway, I had all of these messages coming through and I'm like, oh my God, this is awful. But I was in Vegas. I just stayed off my phone. I said to my manager, I need to delete this photo because it's getting so much

hate. And he said, if you delete the photo, you are going to lose the money. And I was like, so bearing in mind this is a lot of money I you know you work from paycheck to paycheck in this industry you don't know what you're going to get you've got bills to pay you've got family who rely on you and it's then a choice between feeding your family

and putting food on the table or integrity and it's really really hard to make that choice when you're in an environment that doesn't have much work often and you do get these big lump sums once in a blue moon so for me I was like right I could

just delete it, I don't want to deal with it. And then they actually took back the money. So I was like, oh my God, I had to go through all of that hate, all of that abuse. The images are still out there. People are still using them. And I didn't even get paid. Was it a big financial incentive to do these ads? Do you think, because obviously you said the products worked for you as well.

So like, because I don't know sometimes, I don't know, is it, was it like a, like, oh, fuck, I don't really want to do it, but I will because I need the money. Or was it like, no, it's fine. you know what I mean? Towards the end like the third time I would say yes because it's like oh my God you've got your manager there saying well you could be paid X amount of money for this one post

and you're thinking well I've tried the products the products work for me I don't know what people's issue is obviously people's issue was the fact that they were more educated than me and I didn't know what the hell I was talking about but at the time you just think it can't be that bad if it works for me how can it possibly be that bad so then you do it and you think the money is a huge factor in it

be lying if I said it wasn't. I mean, it's, it's such a big chunk of money to turn down and it's such a thing that, you know, you probably, you grow into your integrity and your morals and your values. Yeah, you do. And you've got to grow them as well. Yeah, and you start to realize what actually is important. But it was that one line for me, really, would you want your daughter buying into something like this? And that was the thing that really switched it for me. So that was a pivotal kind of moment, like a pivotal moment in my diet culture career. Love that. Love that. But I think it's a really interesting thing as well, because people assume when you've got a big following and your big, like,

celeb and everyone knows who you are, but you are going to just be, like, fucking rolling in it. And it's a bit, like, I guess it's funny on Instagram because, like, we'll look at Kim Kardashian has done those slimming things and appetite suppressants and whatever. And obviously you look at Kim Kui, and you're like, oh, you dick, like, you don't need the money. Like, that's just annoying.

But then I think we do probably look at that. And then we look at everybody and we kind of tie it with the same brush. And we just think, oh, you don't need the money. You're just doing it because of whatever. And actually, you know, that's the like, the facade of Instagram, isn't it? And celebrity that you just think everything's rosy. Yeah, you think everyone on TV is rich.

That's just a natural, it's just a natural thought that you have. I thought everyone on TV was rich before I got on TV and realized, oh God, most people are actually skinned. Most people have got no money and it's really difficult. And when I even look at like the New Love Islanders and stuff, it terrifies me because they are going to be earning their max probably in that first six months. And then it's only going to decline. We were quite lucky that actually,

when we started off, we all had no money and then it very slowly built gradually upwards and I think that really helped us we didn't get overnight fame, we didn't get well, we did but not for the right reasons we didn't get overnight riches a lot of us didn't have a lot of money

we didn't get paid for Jordy Shaw until series three like no way I was reading that earlier I was like are you serious not a penny oh babe we got paid in Yeager bombs and kebabs and we thought we were living the bloody dream. Oh my God. I heard something about your PAs as well in the disparity in how much you would get, the public appearances and the disparity in how much you were

being paid versus the men. Yeah, huge. So I mean, for example, just to give you some rough ideas, the boys would initially be going out for say £1,000 or even like £1,500, all the way up to 2,000 really in the beginning for the boys. Me, I was on £250.000. So, If I was going to kind of compete with them, I would have to do four times more work and probably receive like four times more of the abuse for it because club appearances were just absolutely horrendous. The sexual abuse I experienced it at every single one

was just like, you don't even understand that it's sexual abuse at the time, but people grabbing your tits and bums, you know, it's not nice. And you just think you have to deal with that because you're from Jordy Shaw. It's so shocking. I can't believe that. I was like, what? Gender pay gap has got everywhere. So we're getting pennies, we're getting sexually assaulted and we're earning way less than our male counterparts. So yeah, it wasn't. Why so much less than the male members of the

cast? Because with clubs, they would say that the boys attract the girls. And when the girls go to the club, the men follow. So they would put on a male, which it's completely understandable and it makes sense. But it just wasn't ideal at the time when we were kind of being told to quit our jobs because we were now cast members of this new show and then had no money. How were you, what was your job when you started Geordie Shore? So I worked in a call centre and I was doing loans and mortgages. Couldn't understand the mortgages, thank God I had to leave. And then thankfully what MTV did start doing, because we went to them and we said like, look,

we haven't got any money. They started paying us like a monthly allowance for a while just until we started making money. So that was actually really good of them. But to be fair, they wouldn't have had a cast otherwise because, I mean, it's not that good. I don't think you should have been. I feel like, I mean, at 18, I thought it was, I thought it was all right, you know. Oh yeah, thanks so much.

So, so kind. Yeah, and then this is why we needed managers, you know what I mean? We were arranging our own bloody contracts at 18 years old. I don't even have anybody in my family who's self-employed. I don't, you know, you don't understand all of this stuff. And you've just been learning on the job as well, because you can't take, it's not like, I don't know, it's not like we're talking to my boyfriend, early, because he's changing jobs. And it's like, oh, what a lovely thing.

Like, he gets a bit of a break in between and he's going to, you know what I mean? Like, you don't get that. You don't, people in this industry, you don't get to just change jobs or like just disappear for a bit. Like, oh, yeah, I'm going to go on gardening leave. Like, it just doesn't happen. So you've to learn all of it as you go, which is just, you know, you didn't really get a holiday either because it's just, I mean, like making that sound weird, but it's just, you don't

get the space to go and evaluate what you want. And I guess it's just so quick. And if you're like, I don't know, and if you, I don't know, you, you, you make Geordie right because you were part of it for so long and then you've just got this loyalty to that and it's and then you're on instagram and then you've got a lot to your fans and you're i don't know it's a lot it's a lot it's a world wind it is a lot and i think when you're in jordy shaw like you kind of you haven't got time to do anything else so we were in there for a lot of years until i actually quit in series 13 and it was only after i quit that you know these diet companies started

coming to me and i had to take them because well there was nothing else coming in and I've just gave up a huge sum because by the end of Jordan Shaw we were on a lot of money and if we were filming two to three times a year I've just freely given up that huge source of income so now I'm relying on Instagram which I'd never had to do before so when these big jobs came in I'm trying to compete with what I was earning from being on TV and it's just impossible so it's kind of that point where you have to think right well what am I passionate about what can I actually do with my life and it's a very scared of moment for a lot of people in that industry because you come off a TV show and what next?

That is really scary. That was brave of you to leave that, knowing that that was sort of steady income and sort of guaranteeing you exposure, which would then, you know, in turn lead to income. Why, can I ask why you left? Yeah. So in, I'd filmed for 13 seasons with a summer special as well. season 13 I was still kind of on and off with my ex and he you know what Jordy Shaw's like they were basically randomly kicking him out he'd come back to the house and they were saying right

he's got to leave now and I'm like well why are you doing this to him again it was like it was humiliating for him basically and I was just like do you know what I'm sick of the way that you treat people I am sick of us having to go through this all of the time I'm sick of you not giving us the respect that we deserve And at that point, I was like, I am leaving and none of them believed me. And I was speaking to my fiancé last night, actually, just randomly. And I was saying, it's so weird when I think back to how many times I was physically held in that house against my will.

We had no phones. We had no access to anyone. And I would be begging to leave and nobody would let me leave. And even when I think back to it now, I'm like, that was really, really bad. Like, it was horrendous. Like, I was basically a prisoner. A prisoner with cababs and yacabombs, but still a prisoner. We didn't get you cababs now.

Like, I feel like you can have cabbabs and so many cabbs. So then, yeah, I ended up leaving with him. And a lot of people asked me, do I regret leaving with him? And the answer, it's still no. Even though he was an absolute idiot, we had the worst relationship ever. It really broke me down. And I completely lost the person who I was in that relationship. But still, I don't regret leaving because at that time, I needed to be out of that environment.

and I needed to work on who I was as a person and to actually grow. And that's kind of just when I went through that time period of, you know, the diet culture products. But then at the end of that, it came to me having this huge passion for fitness and for health and for if I'm going to promote weight loss or weight gain or whatever. I'm going to do it the right way. And I'm going to tell people the correct way to get there because I now have that education myself. So all in all, I'm glad that I left, but it just wasn't under the best circumstances. do you think people are still very invested in you because of your you know the sort of they've watched you grow up you know like have you still got like people just great people because i feel like we're always focusing on trolls you still got like great people oh yeah 100% like i've got so i get so many messages daily like with messages that just shock me saying that you know they're watching the show they're watching jordio g's now and it makes them feel like they can actually go through all of these bad times and come out the other end happy after all of the crap relationships having sex with

people when you didn't really want to and just for attention and all of the drama that I actually went through because it was a lot over those 10 years on TV. But it's nice that people can use me as an example of look at the mess she got herself in on TV and look at where she is now. And I do think that's such a nice thing. I think it's so, like, actually I hadn't thought about it like that, but it's really like, this is so lame, it's really inspiring. If you give people the space to like you say like fuck up um and do and i'm not even like because who's to say what's a fuck up you know what i mean but like exactly yeah but if you give people space to make their own mistakes and just appreciate that it's not your but you know like it's it doesn't you didn't do

anything with malintent and you're just living your life and if and if everyone can give people a bit more space to just be like okay well they fucked it there but i can see that they're really trying to be better and that's great like that's how everything changes because if you just immediately denounce somebody for I don't know selling something a tea or whatever then it's just like well no one gets anywhere but now you're in this incredible position where you can be like lads I've tried them and they don't work and I was wrong and it's such a powerful thing to be like yeah I was wrong but do you say though they said the truth sets you free and it's so nice to just be able to you know I hid my story for so many years and I hit I tried to hide the things that

I'd done wrong out of embarrassment and as soon as I started owning them mistakes that I'd made I just felt so free because people couldn't troll me for it anymore. I wasn't going to be affected by it because I know who I am. I know the type of person that I am now. And those experiences made me the person who I am today. And even when I was speaking about, you know, a lot of people's, a lot of people have got different triggers. Okay, so everyone's got a different trigger and especially when it comes to being online. So there's a lot of people who, you know, I've been colleagues with in the past or whatever I've worked with,

they still promote things like that so what am i going to do i'm going to go into their inbox and tell them not to do something because to me that feels entitled of me to go and say don't promote this don't do that i can't change the world but i can change what i see so if i'm going to be on social media and i don't want to see that then i block them or i mute them or i can't change people i can give people information and the correct information but if somebody wants to do something ultimately they're going to do it all you can do is kind of do the best thing to counteract it and and put the correct message out there do you think maybe at this point you know you said before about like you've not got the education you know at the time you were doing those like

you said i can't stop thinking about it they were in holland and fucking barrett like of course it's fine you know what i mean like i bought them from like the shop outside my school like of course it's fine so but i think i do think maybe now with you know like we're coming on 10 years since they sort of first were in on it, you know, we can't, I mean, I think it takes a brave person to recommend one on Instagram now. I'd be like, oh God, I genuinely. Well, this is the thing people know now, don't know. I think people have, there is the education now and the kind of isn't any excuse for it, I don't think. If you are selling these crappy products now, you are just kind of doing it for the money, I think. But at the same time, we've then got to think,

do they need that money? Is that the other thing? Why isn't no one angry with the dude who Bones Holland and Barrett, I guarantee it's a dude. And no one's standing outside Holland and Barrett with pitchfork, are there? Yeah, can I just say, I'm never going to get a collab with Holland and Barrett. I feel like I've really gone for this. But like, it's so true. It's like everyone's out there getting money.

And at the end of it, if I don't like how you're making money, that's really not my fucking problem. Like, and we do, like, I know that everybody has an element of responsibility, but mostly we have personal responsibility. And it's like you say, if you don't like looking at it, don't look at it. Yeah. Manage your own triggers

A hundred percent And I had somebody come in my inbox the other day Because I'd posted my watch face With I'd worked out And I posted the watch face And it had the calories on And she told me I shouldn't do that

Because people could be triggered And I was like Well I'm really sorry that you are triggered I have personal triggers too But I don't feel like You know There's going to be triggers everywhere in the world And you're going to have to learn to manage that

Your trigger is yours You own that I'm not responsible for your triggers if I was to think about every single thing that I posted because it was going to trigger someone, I'd never post at all and I'd be sat at home in a dark room, not leaving the house,

because something anybody does is going to trigger a person that it's not intended for. I'd love to ask, not to put you totally on the spot, but... Go on. I always feel like this is not a difficult question to ask, but it puts you in a vulnerable spot, I guess, and just asking, like, how you genuinely feel about your body now, how you, like, how comfortable you are in your own skin,

obviously like as much as you're willing to share with us but oh 100% I mean for me exercise has been a savior not just for my body but for my mental health as well and I would be lying to you if I said that aesthetics wasn't something that I was aiming for because of course I'm I'm on TV I'm in the public eye that is always going to be one of the priorities for me no it's not my main priority and it might be somebody it might not be a priority for some people and that's fine but for me there is always going to be this element that I do want to look a way that I'm comfortable with and that's different for everybody like some girls are comfortable at a size 28 some girls are comfortable at a size 8 there is no kind of like standard

and I think now it's kind of we have all of these body positive influences and people show in such a variety of different body types and there are so many women who are comfortable at every single body type and for me exercise number one is for my mental health because if I didn't work out I would feel like absolute crap I eat everything that I want in moderation and it took me a lot of years to actually get to that point so when I look in the mirror now I don't hate myself even now I'm 15 pounds heavier than I was at my lightest weight when I was preparing for my wedding obviously my wedding got cancelled so you know just started eating in a surplus after that which was fine and I'm 15 pounds heavier but I don't look in the mirror and hate that I look at myself and I

think you look strong you are able to lift so much heavier than you could when you were lighter you can do so many other things with your body and I now actually aim so much more for fitness goals rather than like oh I want to be X amount of pounds on the scales I say well I want to be able to hip thrust X amount of weight you know it's just changing your whole mindset from just being focused on the aesthetics but again like i say i'd be lying if i said it wasn't one of the priorities for me because of course it is and i appreciate i really appreciate your honesty with that actually and that you don't like sugar-coating just like yeah i don't really care like how i look because annoys me so much when everyone's like i don't care how i look i just want to be healthy

most people do give a shit about what they look like but a lot of people are comfortable at different ways that's you know and it's extremely difficult to grow up in the environment and the culture that we grew up in and not care about how we look. I defy most people to not give a shit about how they look, unfortunately. That's just how it is. And we're not going to suddenly switch to a culture where everyone's like, ah, fuck it, I don't care, like whatever. So I really appreciate your honesty there. And I think it's really important. Oh, you'll always get honesty with me. I love it. I love it. I'm going to put you on the spot again for the last question. I like all these questions. Go on. For anyone listening right now,

Any girls, young girls or women listening who perhaps don't feel comfortable in their own skin? They don't feel very confident in their bodies. What advice would you give them? So I would say it doesn't matter how thin you are. You can still have these mental issues with your body if you don't change the way that you think about yourself. So I always say to my girls, I mean, we've got a group of 4,000 women who are absolutely amazing. And the first thing that I say to them, when they write a status, that it's just, being so nasty to themselves and so awful and speaking words that you would never say to anybody

else. I'm like, if you don't love yourself through every stage of your journey, you were going to get to your goal wait and you were going to look in the mirror and you were still going to pick yourself apart because it's nothing to do with the size that you are. It is in your head. So every single morning I would say get up and focus on one thing that you like about yourself and try and make it a, you know, something to do with your body because a lot of, of people would say, oh, well, you know, I like my intelligence or whatever. Focus on your body. Why do you like these body parts?

And as soon as you actually start making that thing every single day, before you realise it, you actually start believing it. And it's like fake it till you make it. Just tell yourself you're absolutely amazing. Tell yourself you're a queen. And before long, you'll believe it. So, yeah, you've got to change your mindset whilst you're changing your body if that is something you want to do.

Otherwise, you're not going to get very far. Oh, my God. What an answer. I've got goosebumps. That was so good. What a way to end. I just feel so healing. I just, I don't, I don't. You're brilliant. I want to be your, I want to be your friends. Could you want four thousand and two members in your group? Because yeah, can we join? Oh, amazing. Well, thank you so much. That was such a lovely conversation. It's just nice to be able to speak openly about these things. And like I say, you'll always get honesty with me. Like, I'm not here to sugarcoat things or whatever. I just feel like I've lived such an experience in the topics that we're speaking about with diet culture and whatever. It's nice to be able to share that and actually have people listen as well and to sometimes people don't understand where people are coming from or why they went about promoting these things and it's very easy to judge when you're not on that side. It's so easy to judge and just actually like as a final thought, I think like a lot of the shows that you do like Love Island as well and like the only way is Essex.

Like the way that the press speaks about it, it is in a way that we are encouraged to judge you. And it's like you are characters, not people. And I think that's like something that's worsened with Instagram. Like we do treat other people like they are characters. And we lack empathy. And it's just like, and I would have been, I probably was angry with you when I saw that.

And I wouldn't have taken any feckon minutes to be like, I wonder why. You know, I wouldn't have ever been like, oh well you know there will be so many factors and whatever and I just wouldn't have thought like that and I think this is I'm really excited people to listen to this because I think they'll just be like well shit like it's hard to put yourself in other people's shoes it is it's it's hard to actually sit there and think well was there actually a reason and to give people the benefit of the doubt because it's like a pile on isn't it you see people going for somebody

and you know you had all reasons to be angry at what I was promoting but also then like you say you can sit back and think, well, did she need the money? Was that the difference between her putting the food on the table that month? Was her family in need that month? All of these things that you don't necessarily think about because a lot of people just expect influencers or whatever to be rich and for their families to not struggle or whatever. But I'm here to say that, you know, people on the TV are just normal people as well. And a lot of them don't actually have that much money. And I think you've certainly offered me like a more compassionate insight into that I mean because we take everything at face value like we said we have no context and we don't even care to grasp the context or to guess

what the content. Yeah and we react so quickly as well. So you definitely offered me a more compassionate insight and yeah I thank you very so much for being here. I'm glad I could do that. I'm really excited for people to listen to this. I think it's going to be it's going to be a good one so there we go wasn't that unreal unreal i like i can't wait to just be holly's best friend i don't think she's gonna be like and no does i go say do you think she'll let us no she'll turn up at her door yeah i think she'd be like all right no i gave you an hour now fuck off yeah no i'm joking that how great

like honestly i'm so pleased that we got to get that perspective because i think Like, I mean, I just, I, I, I, Instagram has, did devoid me of compassion or perspective or general fucking manners because I just, I react so quickly and I'm really pleased actually to have had that conversation and just make my own kind of. And realise that there's a story behind everything. I feel like that's what we're really quick to not even forget, but like just not even explore, not even consider that there's something going on behind, you know, beneath the surface. And I think that really opened my eyes, actually. And yeah, I'm just, and she was really honest with us, like, super vulnerable with us and really was honest about that time in her life and, like, how she felt doing them. And I think it's just, yeah, I've learned a lot from it.

So have I. I absolutely loved it. But now, we've got another section to do. So I've had a few entries this week. Okay. People are getting the hang of it. Okay. And I'm going to just kick us off, actually, because I know.

need to know i i don't i feel like we've been friends for a while we we share a lot oh god no it's a it's a it's a pretty it's a pretty standard question uh you could probably expect to hear it in the job interview Alex light do you pee in the shower of course i do does anybody not daisy do you do you wait in the shower right okay everybody whee's in the shower why wouldn't you be in the shower well i've heard rumors that it's actually not that good for you i sometimes don't think that i'm going to like regress in life because sometimes i'm like Oh, one more time, I'm like, time to pee. Yeah.

And then I'm like, is this going to be automatic forever? Yeah. Am I going to leave? Sometimes, I'm like, Davey, sometimes for fun, I make myself not we in the shower because I don't want to get the association of hearing. So I'm like, don't do it, don't do it. And I always do it. So basically what I'm scared is like one time I'll have to go in the public shower

and I won't be able to stop myself. And I'll wait. But can I just say that I've heard something that apparently it's not going to, good for your like bladder to we stood up so you're supposed to get a bit of squats so sometimes in the shower I get like a bit of a do you squat into shower not fully not fully just like a little bit because I feel like you're not supposed to just stand I don't know but everyone weed in the shower right yeah I didn't know that but I always thought everyone we'd in the shower until and I remember this very distinctly we know when Big Brother was like a thing when it first started do you remember

nasty Nigel yeah so it was a thing that he peed in the shower like everyone was like oh my god he peed in the shower and i was like that is i thought everyone peed in the shower like why wouldn't you know i think everyone's doing that thing where they're like wait even though everybody else does it too so like ew why wouldn't you i don't get it i just think it's quite effective yeah right so it's not just so yes dear entry person yes it's not just you yeah that pees in the shower although i could say anybody's name because everybody pees in the shower so that's okay um what's next someone wrote in with an entry

and they want us to normalise calling your friends out on their shit she said you can still be friends and not agree oh my god yeah well it depends what the shit is because sometimes I'm like I just said totally as if like I'm absolutely cool with like my friends calling me out but like I'm the most sensitive in the person

in the world also Virgo's holder grudge for the longest ever I think if I called you out you'd be like yeah you wouldn't see me again Alex has moved I'm a goner I agree with you but in theory but in practice for me I do wonder what the shit is, though. Like, I feel that we need more context.

Because sometimes I'm like, I think communication is really important in a friendship and we don't prioritise it enough. We don't treat friendships, I don't think, with the gravitas that they deserve. Like, we work on our real relationships. We need to work on friendships. And, like, for me, I know that I'm a brilliant friend in some areas, but I know that I'm a really shit friend in other areas, namely replying to your texts or your WhatsApp.

And I really appreciate it when my friends can say to me, look, I struggle with this, because I don't think it's healthy to sit with resentment. So I do think it's worth communicating within a friendship. But then it depends what the shit is. Because if the shit's nothing to do with you, then maybe you don't, I don't know. Totally. It depends on the shit. Yeah, you're right.

Almost like love languages with relationships, right? It's almost like working out. You have to like work out what, and it's true, like, work out what your friend's good points are. And then they're not so good points because like not everyone, you can't. can't hold everyone, and I think you've said this, you can't hold everyone to your own standards. No, because my standards are fucking high. Yeah. And all that happens is I just let myself down because, like, learning from what Jackson was saying last week.

But like, I expect great things of my friends. And then when they don't, when they're not exactly as I need them to be, I'm absolutely devastated when actually this was all my doing because I made the standards in my head. And they didn't even know there's like this quiz that they didn't know they were taking. And then they failed. And they didn't even know there was an exam. Like so unfair. Yeah, that's so true. I forgot we spoke about that. What an episode. Jack, Jacqueline, such an episode. So communication is key. communication is key yeah but okay so say if you hear me say something that you really strongly

disagree with so say if i am bitching about someone okay and you strongly disagree do you call me out on it you're bitching about daisy and i'm like yeah don't bitch about daisy she's really nice well i actually i think this is really interesting because sometimes i think like it's not worth the fight like sometimes i can hear people and i'm just like oh god but then are because what what often happens and I notice it with myself, like, I, I think, I think people think I'm a bit righteousy and preachy and ranty because of what I do online. So sometimes if I, like, it's like I'm the fun sponge at the table, right? So sometimes, you know, if all the lads are like making a joke or it's a sexist joke and

then I'm like, hey, you can't do that. Like, oh, and everyone's like, boo, you know, fucking snowflake at the table. And sometimes I'm like, I can't be, like, I cannot be fucked with that. Like, just fine, be awful. Yeah. See if I care. But then there's sometimes, I think, you know, if you were really hurting someone, for example, if you were sagging off lovely Daisy, I'd be like, ow, like, really. So I think, I mean, but it depends on your personal boundaries.

Yes. Maybe if you think nobody's going to, I think you have to weigh up, do you think if somebody's going to be hurt by it or if it's making you, you know, distinctly uncomfortable, but then is it worth the fight? Because sometimes it is a fight, right? I don't think we've been very helpful here. Yeah, I know. I think you're right. I think it is context dependent and I also think pick your battles. Yeah, pick your battles.

Because if it's relentless, if you're like, if every time I see you, you're slagging someone else off, it's like, okay, this is just too much. Yeah. But then, you know, if you're just having a bad day and you just want to take it out and, you know, maybe it's not my place to tell you what to do. Yeah. And it also depends on how good friends you are with the friend as well. Like, it's too hard. This is too hard, isn't it? Oh, we're in deep.

We're in too deep. I'm going to just like really just pull us out at this deep place. Can you pull us out? Oh, God. Yeah, okay. Because I'm going to read this entry and then I'm going to ask you a question. is it just me that becomes a kleptomaniac when drunk? My question is, have you ever stolen anything?

But also, are you a kleptomani maniac when you're drunk? Yes, I have. Like, I didn't know how old I was. I think it was probably about five. But I went through this obsession with chewing gum. Like, I thought that, like, cool people chew chewing gum. And, like, I was just desperate to get my hands on chewing gum. Like, I would go to any length.

So when we were in Tesco, I just wanted chewing them so badly. So when we were in Tesco, I went and I stole a packet of gum. But then I felt really bad. So when we got home, like I took one out and then I told my mom and gave her the packet back and she marched me back to Tesco. And the piece that I kept, I ate it. Well, I chewed it and then I accidentally swallowed it. And then there was, I remember my mom telling me previously, like, if you swallow it,

it sticks in your lungs forever and you can't breathe. So I was like a very panicked little five. year old good god it doesn't stick in your lungs forever your mom was lying she was definitely lying although i heard that it stayed in your gut for seven years no and i remember swallowing a piece when i was about 11 i was like i will have that till i'm 18 um i don't know if that's true i don't know if that's true i think people lied have you still anything i'm i'm honestly so scared of authority i used to steal cigarettes from my dad uh okay i feel like that doesn't count as a real steal. No, in that case, no, I'm such a pussy. I accidentally stole a lemon once and the guilt of

it tore me up. Honestly, I was in absolute bobbins. I'm really, I'm such a pussy. And I'm honestly, like sometimes, like I'll get myself really head up and then when it actually comes to it, I'm like, oh my God, no. Like, I'm so scared of authority. It's pathetic. So no. And honestly, even when I haven't stolen something, I still feel like I've accidentally stolen something. So I get sheepish with security guards. I'm like, uh, like my worst nightmare,

genuinely, I think if I died and like the, the fiery pits of hell appeared below me and I had to descend the stairs, I would get there and it would just be that alarm going from like, you've left the shop with the clothing tag still in your bag. Yeah. Like that's my idea of personal hell.

Really? Really? She's stolen something. Ugh. It makes me so uncomfortable. So no. No, it's not for me. I am not going to, it's not the hardened life of a criminal for me.

It's just not, well, that was disappointing. I was expecting a really cool. I know, I know. I give off quite cool vibes. Yeah, I thought you were going to hit us with something. I agree. No, when it comes down to it, I'm weak. Yeah, I mean, I don't think I could actually go into a shop and steal something.

No. I don't think I could. Not for the moral reasons. I wish I was that moral. I'm just so scared of getting, it's entirely selfish. I'm just absolutely terrified of getting into trouble. It would be sick. Like, that is something that isn't very embarrassing, getting caught for stealing.

I know. Imagine, like, oh, Dave, can you pick me up from prison? I don't think, I don't think it's necessarily normal to become a kleptomaniac while you're drunk. But who are we to judge? But who are we to judge? You do. Yeah, you crack on. You do you.

But if you're brave enough to face the wrath of any security guard, honestly, then all power to you. Because it's just not for me. I'd sooner rob a bank than I would steal something from waitress, I think. at least there's like balls to the wall you know what i mean if you're like going into a safe like there's no there's no like it's less embarrassing i think yeah to be caught robbing a bank is fine but to be caught stealing a lemon it's just like oh for fuck sake couldn't even do that could you pathetic uh i have another um something something in the in the similar vein basically uh it's an embarrassing story it was sent to our email address if you have an embarrassing story

that you would like us to laugh at. Please remember that you can email us should I delete that pod at gmail.com. But for now I have an anonymous story that I need to read out. I'm excited. She says, hi ladies. First week, thank you for the podcast.

It's so really, oh, okay, I'm not going to read that on the phrase. That's really wanky, but thanks. Embarrassing story. A couple of years ago, my partner and I went for a fancy meal out, an absolute rarity, but you're about to see why I'm not allowed into nice places. We made the error of going for some

drinks beforehand and had way too much wine. Cut to the restaurant and I went to the toilet and followed a woman into the ladies. I closed the door behind me. Where is this going? I closed the door behind me and turned around to see the woman looking at me, nose to nose in absolute horror and confusion. I then noticed the toilet and the sink behind her and realised I hadn't followed her into the ladies. I'd followed her into a single cubicle. I couldn't think of any one. I couldn't think of any words to justify this invasion of privacy so i literally just stared at her for a while then let myself out mortified thanks can't wait for the next episode that's absolutely brilliant i would die i would drop dead on the spot oh my god it's so embarrassing it's so embarrassing i can't cope for her

oh my god i would need therapy like she's so small mortifying mortifying um i can't see yet you're not allowed into nice places anymore or any places really god bless you god bless you oh you're both things oh well yeah please keep sending your stories in because i'm very much enjoying them thank you i mean what an episode we've done it haven't we yeah yeah really good episode i hope i think i like that we just back ourselves entirely great episode great episode well then backtrack or maybe not actually only if you think so well we'll leave it to you you guys be the judge um yet in your in your own mind but just don't let us know no unless you think it's great and then we like to know yeah right we'll ask what we asked last time if you loved it please leave

us a review if you hated this please don't yeah um and subscribe if you like it and rate five stars only five stars five stars i think apple do need to introduce a new thing where they don't allow for like i i don't like the sort of democracy vibe that apple offers yeah it's five or nothing yeah exactly six if you really really like us. That's not even possible. Maybe it should be. I think we're out.

I think that's it. Perfect. Well, thank you so much. Thanks for listening, everyone. Yeah, like I say, please do email us if you have anything embarrassing or any questions for the group. And we will see you next Monday. See the Wings? Don't miss the new comedy Good Fortune

starring Seth Rogen, Aziz Ansari, and Kiana Reeves. Critics rave. It's heaven sent. You have a budget, guardian angel? Kind of. You were very unhelpful. Good Fortune, directed by Aziz Ansari.