Should I Delete That? - I bought sperm on the internet - now I’m finally a mum … with Liv Thorne

Episode Date: August 3, 2025

When Liv reached her mid-thirties as a single woman, she made a decision that would change her life: to have a child on her own. In this episode, she talks to us about navigating fertility clinics, buying sperm from Denmark, and the emotional rollercoaster of choosing solo parenthood.Liv shares the grief she carried through her twenties and thirties watching people around her start families, the moment she decided to go it alone, and the incredible journey that brought her son Herb into the world..We chat about the impossible task of choosing a donor, the challenges of doing it all solo, and what’s surprised her about Herb as he’s grown up. Plus - Herb joined us in the studio, and honestly, it melted our hearts! Follow @livsalone on InstagramYou can buy your copy of Liv’s Alone: Amateur adventures in solo motherhood here!We’re heading to Edinburgh for our biggest live show ever. We’ll be taking over the iconic Usher Hall for one night only on 3rd September. Head to SIDTLive.com for more information and to purchase tickets.Follow us on Instagram:@shouldideletethat@em_clarkson@alexlight_ldnShould I Delete That is produced by Faye LawrenceStudio Manager: Dex RoyVideo Editor: Celia GomezSocial Media Manager: Sarah EnglishMusic: Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I don't know anything about my life other than I wanted to be a mum. My issue was that I didn't have a partner, I didn't have direct access to sperm, like a couple do. Hello and welcome back to Should I Delete That? When Liv Thorne reached her mid-30s as a single woman, she made a decision that would change her life to have a child on her own. In this episode, she talks to us about navigating fertility clinics, buying sperm from Denmark, and the emotional rollercoaster of choosing solo parenthood. She also shared the grief that she carried through her 20s and 30s as she watched the people around her start their own families.

The moment she decided to go at it alone and the incredible journey that brought her son Herb into the world. We chat about the impossible task of choosing a donor, the challenges of doing it all solo, and what surprised her about Herb as he's grown up? Plus, Herb joined us for this interview. He was the first seven-year-old we've ever had in the studio and you may be able to hear him at Parts.

If so, lucky you. You can follow Liv and Herb's gorgeous journey together over on Instagram at Lives Alone. We hope you love this episode. Here's Liv. Hi, Liz. Hi. Thank you so much for coming in. You're welcome.

We are really excited to talk to you. No. It's funny. Yeah. I'm just, I'm waiting to, yeah, to see what questions because I know that you two will come up with Giddens. Pressure. Okay, what's 14 times 29? Well, yeah, I can't do this.

I can't do four plus four. I'm so excited. And I can literally feel Al's like slipping out of her own skin with questions. I know. I'm just, I'm so excited. Go for it. Okay, and we're going to have to pause quickly on the questions, though, for you to tell your story, if that's okay,

why you're here today, what to talk about? Actually, the Uber driver just asked what, you know, and I said, and I, And I suddenly was like, oh, so what would you be talking about? I was like, oh. So I had a baby via sperm donation as a solo parent, mother. My son is now seven. So actually I found out eight years ago this week that I was pregnant after that.

So we are talking about spam donation, I suspect, and solo parenthood. And all the things that led up to it and all the things. after yeah i mean i am i am fascinated can we go back to the beginning yeah yeah so you were were you 36 i was oh i was 36 when i decided okay to do it because i'd been single all my adult life and i suddenly and it was always a bit of a oh get a turkey baster because that was the sort of running joke in the late 90s of single women and then I said oh no I oh and then everyone all of my friends actually started having children quite young and my brothers and sisters are quite

a lot older than me so my nieces and nephews are nearer and age to me than I am to my siblings so there are kids everywhere all the time and I just assumed does have my own and then life just kept going and I still wasn't in a relationship and then obviously still no children and yeah 31 and then suddenly 32 and then oh no and then there's the constant daily mail

articles of your fertility will implode if you don't have a baby by midnight on your 31st birthday or whatever and you're just like oh god you know and that just suddenly and then it's like when you're looking for a house and you suddenly don't like your house or when you think you're pregnant and you see babies everywhere

it was that sort of thing that that's suddenly all I was tuned into was negative stories about fertility and, you know, the fact that I was going to suddenly be so old. I'd never be able to have a baby and that. And that is all I wanted. I don't know anything about my life other than I wanted to be a mum. Right. Always have done since I was little, you know, like a lot of girls do. And so yeah, it was suddenly. So although the the decision to do it was quite quick because I'm a sort of Torian bull and when it happened, you know, when I make a decision, it's happening. The lead up to it, it's not like it was, oh, I know what I'm going to do tomorrow. That sounds like a fun idea. It was a 15 year

lead up to that. Oh, actually, I am just constantly getting older and maybe my fertility will implode. During that time, were you looking, because I was just, Because I think a lot of us, when we think about our future and children, obviously, most of us think about it in collaboration with a partner. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%. So was that kind of your, for those 15 years, was it like, I need to find a partner so I can have children. In order too. So, yeah. So my prime driver was to have a baby. It wasn't to have a partner. But so I'd look at dating or whatever as, oh, yeah, Billy's nice, but would he be a nice to act? you know, just instantly, which is really weird.

It's not a sexy, like vibe I was skipping off, I don't think, do you know what I mean? It's a tense one for sure. Hey, Billy. He's quite tense. He's a sperm-like. Exactly. Like, can we meet your mum because I'm ovulating? That sort of thing.

It's just, yeah, and it was always that way. That was the impetus of, or he looks like I could have nice children or they get on with their parents. So wouldn't that be like, you know. just really weird things I'd think about other than he looks like a nice guy we could have nice time yeah he could bring me in a like an boat down a lake yeah yeah it was always just can I have a baby yeah and that was always my primary driver which is why I think then it got to the stage it's like I probably need to do something about that because he's not forthcoming and it's not that I was leaving a trail of broken hearts behind me it's just

I never was in a relationship. And it's, I don't think I was telling people. It's, I wanted a baby. I don't think I was actually that intense and that's why I was never in a relationship. But who knows? I could ask a couple of people and see if that actually would be a bit awkward. But yeah, so that's, so in those years, it was always,

come on, I need, come on a baby, thank you. A wedding, lovely, whatever. But that wasn't what I was aiming for, ever. It was a table. I just always pictured myself at the head of a big wooden table with 38 children in it and, you know, people coming in and out and all that sort of thing. And actually it was just, that's what was happening to my friends. There was never happening to me.

I was becoming more and more distant from what that life I wanted for myself was. Yeah, so I decided to. That must be painful. Oh, yeah, I mean there were, and you become really selfish. in your, so people would tell me they were pregnant and my first reaction would be about me. Not to them. I'd never say, but what about me? You know, but my first reaction would be, oh God, it's another one. Or, yeah, you become really selfish in your emotion when, you know, if you're my best friend and you've told me that you're pregnant, my first reaction should be that I'm

thrilled for you. And that became more and more not the case that my first reaction was. fuck how did that manifest itself within your relationships with your friends um i think initially they wouldn't have known and then it was just obvious because yeah you know you they'd find me crying and you'd try and keep it in but obviously when it's things like that it's visceral it's not but again it's a really selfish you become your emotions and your reactions to things when it's it's so tunnel vision that that's what you want and see everyone around you is just falling pregnant. Oh, accidentally pregnant with my fifth.

You're like, cool, cool. You know, just, oh. And I think that's the case a lot for women who are either like me, who are single or who are trying to conceive and going through that journey. And that you just, the focus is very much on you, not on other people. And your friends aren't getting pregnant to piss you off. Or like you've literally got nothing to do with that in their life. Yeah.

But to you, it's like it is literally visceral of your reaction of how you react to that sort of news or, you know, that kind of thing. And you become so sort of distant to their life because it's so different suddenly. Their lives are suddenly so, you know what it's like when you've got kids, it's not. what it was like before because it can't be for a while and it shouldn't be and all that sort of stuff but you so yeah it's hard to get in that it's hard to sort of infiltrate that if you're not actually in it you don't really understand what it's like parenting and that kind of thing so yeah that's when and i'd just cry a lot i mean i still do but that's just standard um but yeah a friend of mine found me with my godson just holding him and just crying and she just

went this time you know that kind of come on we can't keep saying maybe next year or that sort of thing was that the moment then that you

that was kind of yeah pretty much it was that you know when someone else validates that it's obvious why I'm sat in the middle

of a garden crying when at a party and obviously no one else is I was sat on my own I wasn't sort of trying in the middle I'm like guys

I felt a bit like that but I wasn't but yeah that's you know and you're just like live come on that's a weird way to be at a party and be hanging out

with your godchildren and like for it to be sad and actually it should just be fun times was that like okay live

let's make a plan so that you can have a baby or was it let's make a plan so that you can feel better to have the baby yeah yeah

god that's great that there was that level of practice I think a lot of people are quite, I speak for myself, like, we're very scared to have these conversations with our friends because you really don't want to encroach, you don't want to push, you don't, you know, it's so personal. So I think my, as a friend who has children, as a friend in that situation, I think my instinct would have been to go, let's make you feel better rather than let's make you have a baby. Well, I think she'd done that before. Okay. Do you know what I mean?

And whether I'd taken it on board or not, I don't know, I can't really remember. It was that time that I remember her just sort of looking at me. There was something in her eyes. It was just like, we're going now. Come on. And then I think she sort of knew that from that stage, I'd just run with it, which I did. Did you? Did you? Yeah. What a great friend.

Yeah. I was like, yeah, that is correct. I've got to. It's got to happen. And yeah, I am getting older. Yeah, I was 36. So I had no idea how long it would take, how long these things take. cool so I knew it had to sort of be then did you have your fertility tested or did you just go straight into it I so then obviously I went straight to Google because I don't know what to do it's just like yeah where else would you go what do here and that's why I talk about it a lot is because there I mean this is eight years ago as you know a lot changes in various spaces in

eight years and that kind of solo parenting wasn't as easily talking about then, I don't think. Again, I don't know if it's because that's how I felt it was, but I believe that to be true. So I couldn't find people like me who were going through that journey. So I went to Google and was just like, what do I do? And it was basically, yeah, go and get your fertility tested. So I went to my doctor. And I remember being terrified to going to my doctor of them saying, not you. Absolutely not. You can't do this on your own. that it was their right to validate what I was wanting to do, which, of course, she did, you know,

but I was so scared of them, her being able to say, no, you're not allowed to do this. How day you think that that's something that's open to you? And she was just like, yeah, yeah, let's get your blood's done. Let's go, you know, and I thought, okay. And that's really, speaking to people now, I mean, as with anything, doctor related, it very much depends on the doctor the day, the postcode. as to whether you can get that blood test at your GP or whatever.

But I did, so. I didn't know that it was something that could be offered through the NHS. The fertility treatment isn't. But just getting your blood test to see your hormone levels. Okay. Can be in some places. I know people that have been refused. So again, you'd have to look into it as with anything.

And with anything I say, ever. do your own research people listening to this podcast know that yes yeah always fact check thing in the corner I think it's important that you make that point though

because that's a part of the conversation we've had a lot when we've talked about IVF in the past you know it is a postcode lottery and that's a huge it's a massive postcode and I know people that have done it solo via the NHS

but two out of I mean I must know hundreds of women that have had solo babies but it's deeply unfair that two can and 98 can. And I've, I didn't ever ask them how they did it because I sort of didn't want to know. You know, in case, do you know what I'm saying? But it's like, it's like if one of you escapes from prison, it's like, well, you're just going to let them go. Do you know what I mean? You're not going to tell on them. You're going to be like, no, go, go, go, I saw nothing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. You don't want to draw attention to it in case they get, it takes, someone sends a bill to them or something. Or if I know, just the whole thing, you know, and I, I was never going to ask the NHS if I was eligible because again I was constantly waiting for someone to say no to me that I couldn't do it that I shouldn't do it that I wasn't allowed to do it that had I've asked if I could have it funded by the NHS and they'd have said no I'd have probably taken that and run with it as a I can't do this so I didn't even put that in the equation I'm not saying people shouldn't they I think they should ask if it's but be aware that the chances are you're going to have to do it privately.

But then go to your GP and you might be able to get a couple of blood tests through your GP, which will save you a couple of hundred quid, which you really need, you know. So, yeah, so I went to the GP first and then got one. And what are your results? Very average, bang average. That's what I remember. And I was just like, brilliant, lovely.

The average is great. Yeah, yeah. I aim for average in anything. I talked to this. I'm saying. Average is immaculate. Yeah. Just like, how are you?

And I'm like, I'm average. Brilliant. You don't want to be anything. You're absolutely thrilled about it. No more nor less. No more. Exactly. Thank you.

They'd be greedy. I'm absolutely hard. Because the fear of either way. Yes. It's too much expectation with anything more. Exactly. I'm with you. Yeah.

So I was just like, lovely. If you had loads, you'd be like, oh God, I've got to use them more. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. I'm going to have hundreds. I was suddenly. Yeah.

So it was all very average, you know, no one said anything scary. And so I was like, fine. And then, so then I knew I had to look for a clinic. And then that's another just. How'd you find a clinic? Google. And then our local clinic, I'd heard bad things about from friends who'd gone through Ivia. So I was like, okay, I'm not going to go there.

So nearest city, London. Harley Street. I know Harley Street. Lovely. And then it was the first clinic that picked up the phone and sent me a prospectus. Fine. I do not encourage that. level I would do much more research because they were not the right clinic for me but because I

didn't know what I was looking for I didn't know again it was just so blind everything was so blind of what I was doing or and you're doing it all on your own and I'm doing it on my own I didn't know what questions to ask I didn't know I just didn't know and I knew that they did it they offered it and they'd answer the phone because that's their job and I went there but yeah looking back they absolutely were not the right fit for me just I needed a bit more hand holding and they were very much a business it was a turn circle business results results results that's all yeah yeah and things like they'd phone after treatment and be like so was it a success and then I'll be like no okay

so should we book you in for another and you know and you're like okay or how are you feeling do you want to do you want to discuss your options do you not just it was very much like that and I and I didn't need that I needed someone to be slightly gentler with me um but I again I didn't realise that there were clinics that are and actually there are loads obviously um so yeah I don't encourage just going to the first clinic that answers your friend do some research ask around But you did go to the first clinic. I did go to the first clinic. So what does that process look like when you get to a clinic?

So I went, I explained it to them. They sort of went through all the options of what was available, the cost, and what they thought I should do based on. And you have an internal ultrasound and all that sort of thing to see, even though I'd gone armed with my average blood. results and their recommendation for me was to have IVF oh yeah and because well because of my age because of my weight because of various I mean they say a lot again I stupidly went on my own to these things and you know when it's like when you ask for directions and someone's saying something to

you and you're desperately listening to what they're saying but you're not retaining any of that information. It's just that they could have said anything. Yeah. And I remember writing it down and actually looking at my notes after. I'm like, what? Because they're just talking in AMHs and LMH and PSR and IVF and I UI. And I'm like, I don't know what these odds mean. And as opposed to just saying, sorry, can you explain that to me? Answer is that? Oh yeah, yeah, sure. Write it down and look that up later. And of course, I'd have written the wrong thing down. And yeah. So I'm no fertility expert, surprised that the first, like the first action is not an IUI. Well, again, it could be now and it could be for someone different to me. Yeah. But I think because of whatever reason,

he thought that I should go to straight to IVF, but I was very... I'm sure he was better than me. What do you mean? I'm not 100% convinced, Alex, to be honest. I see. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's is very business-led. Okay. So. Well, IVF costs a hell of a lot more than IUI. Hell of a lot more. Yeah.

And I was really clear on the fact that I didn't have a fertility issue. My issue was that I didn't have a partner. I didn't have direct access to sperm. Yeah. Like a couple do. And so I didn't want to go straight to the really intrusive IVF if I didn't need to. I would have done, but I wanted to start entry level. and so I was just like actually I'd like to do IUI please

good for you I know I was quite proud it's really hard to advocate for yourself though when a doctor says something else I think also because I couldn't really afford IVF yeah so it was more I was terrified of the IVSness of it because of the cost and then he's like okay you could do IVI but I'd strongly suggest doing assisted IUI which is having hormones as well instead of just doing the I-N-I-U-I which is just

injecting straight into your cervix it's essentially a smear test it takes that long it's the same speculum or that kind of thing whereas assisted you have all the hormones but you take all the hormones at home but again massive cost in that and again I didn't think that I was that I had any fertility issues per se

so I decided to do IUI but give myself limits because there are scarce stories of people having spent 300 billion dollars on and not stop not knowing when to stop and that is me

I don't know when to stop with anything so I knew I had to give myself very strict limits so my limit was for IUI and then I'd go to IVF. So they literally just put sperm in you when you're ovulating, like sort of turkey-based a book, Finnickel? Yeah.

How did you go about finding the sperm that you wanted? Again, I went to Google. Yeah. Because I was like, talk to me about sperm. Yeah. How do we do this? And I'd seen a BBC documentary like four years before about Danish sperm. So therefore everything I knew, which was minimal, was about Danish sperm.

sperm. Okay. So I was like, cool, I'll get some from Denmark then. Love that. Good answer is their biggest trade. Exactly. It's like that's what I know now. And we don't do it in our country. We don't have a national sperm bank. We did. I'm not going to say the facts because I'll get them wrong. Okay. You can make you up if you want. We don't know. It was open for something like three years and then they had to close it because there were no donations. Oh, wow. Really? Yeah. Why are we so stingy? I just don't think we talk about it. And maybe the Danes big up for it.

Maybe that's what they chat about. But yeah, we just don't. And if you speak to a man now, still, if you say, if you ever considered sperm donation, they get really red and sort of giggly and like, you know, that sort of. Whereas perhaps Danish men don't do that. I don't know.

But we just don't, well, like anything in this country, we don't talk about anything that's not. I'm not going to have any perception of Danish men other than. There you go. That sperm. Their sperm. Yeah. It's like description, but just for sperm.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So we didn't have, we don't have it here. There are private sperm banks, but no. Okay. National sperm bank. And, but again, very minimal quantity to choose from. So I was like, okay, I'll look at the Danish one. Ample people to choose from.

But there lie if another problem, what am I looking for? So, again, this was eight years ago, so I suspect it's changed now, but you go on to a website. There's no logging in or any just filter down. So there's just a thousand taxonomies of height, weights, hair color, eye color, ethnicity. I can't remember any of the others. And at the beginning, I was just, I'd hold myself up at home for two days. I was like, I'm going to do this. Two days.

I had a box of magnums. so it's all going to be fine some chocolate ice cream and I'll be away but at the beginning I was really looking at as if it was a dating site like oh he sounds fun because he's mentioned whatever

kayaking I don't know why I said that but that like what's that got to do with oh my god yeah like literally what has him liking pizza and whatever

got to do with me and possibly a child So eventually I realized that that was insane and that I needed to think about other things perhaps. And so I looked for their familial health was the number one because our family is riddled with cancer. So it was like, okay, if I look to make sure the people that they've got are good enough.

And actually they're screened really heavily. So it would never be that someone who had a specific disease that could be passed down. would be allowed to so um but again i was just trying to was trying to think of anything like come on um and then it was i went with her no i didn't go with hair come i didn't go with anything like that then it was just like they sounded like a normal human being like they they say they do a little speech about why they're donating and then and they talk that through so you can hear their voice oh wow yeah and again that might be different now was it all in

Danish. No, of course it was it was in English with a beautiful Danish accent because they speak because they speak English better than we do. Okay, this is. I'm like in the sound like it's nice. And then, yeah, what else? You don't have a photo. There was a baby photo. You don't get photos of them as an adult. So it's literally just words on a page and some of them have this voice note. And I just whittled it down and then just went, okay, that one. And you don't because there's no right answer. There is no right. answer. And there's no way of... I don't like that. Me neither. I would be there for years. I don't like that there's no right answer. And so that's how I, I had to give myself a time limit. Because otherwise... All the answer is the right answer. Every answer is the right answer. Exactly. Then which one? So then what do you do? But then that paralyzes you because then which... They're all the right answer. Then which one does it matter? Because they're all the right

answer. Well, no, I wasn't convinced by it all being the right answer. I was just, I was just terrified by the whole thing. And like, I feel like, I feel like, I feel like, I feel I feel anxious for you right now for the year of eight years ago. Did you go for the one with the voice notes? Yeah, there was a voice note. That feels nice. Yeah, there were a couple of other things that was said in it. And I was just like, okay, yeah, tick, fine.

But again, I mean, he could have been lying in this thing. Of course. Yeah, it could have been. And it could have been, and it could have been. And that clinic, they do a little description of what the star, described the donor as. Well, that's nice, too. Yeah, but you might describe them as, oh my God, didn't, you know, he was lovely,

had kind eyes and he'd be like, yeah, but he was a bit arrogant on the way out. Do you not have to me, that's, again, it's so subjective and, but I was, yeah. I couldn't go out, I couldn't get out, I was feeling quite chill, and now I'm less chill. I know, and like how their grandparents died and what their grandparents did for a living. And I was like, I know much more about her. DNA than mine like because it was so much yeah um so much but yeah i just it was him i was like right we're all we're done here that because i can't and that was then very much it's that or nothing question yes so you had you you you knew that you were faced with

multiple rounds of iuIs does that mean that you had to go for someone who had a specific amount of sperm right so honestly i'm anxious thinking about it again because there is no again now you can buy bundles apparently so you could get you could get a three pack or whatever subscription service

yeah and then there's like what's it called oh god I'm going to get this story I think it's MOT the MOT which is the speed of the sperm okay and again I was like well which one do I need do I need the highest presumably I need the highest

otherwise why are you telling me but then I'd speak to the clinic they'd be like no kind of anything well no at this stage i'm going high it's like me to go to the petrol station and it's unleaded or premen unleaded it on that what's the difference i don't know i know i always go for premium because i think my car will thank me but it's more expensive and i don't know why i'm doing it whereas i always go for the other one so i'm like no why did you need that because oh gosh i should like humans are so weird i know and so i was like okay well i need the highest

mott obviously and then it's like but what if it what if there aren't four vials available and And I don't want to buy all of them now because then I might be wasting three. Because I was convinced I'd get pregnant on the first go. And then you have to pay for storage and you have to pay for a la la la la la la la la la la la. And when you're shipping it over, it's like, do you want container A or the jazzy ice container? And I'm not the jazzy ice container. I'm pressured to give you all my money. You may as well have the extra 200 at this stage.

gift wrapping thank you because why it was it was like rowan atkinson and love actually like and another thing yeah yeah like give it to me because i don't know what any of this means and i don't know what'll make it work like yeah how much is button how much did you pay do you know do you know what's worrying is that i can't remember i'm going to say some words okay please if anyone's listening who is going to then put this in a spreadsheet. Dear Henry said. I think it was about 950. For one vial.

That's really expensive. Yeah, I think it was that. And then the IUI was about two and a half grand. I think it was basically about three and a half grand ago. Okay. And that's entry level. Yeah. Things may have got cheaper.

Things may have got more expensive. And I know now you can buy bundles, like I say. But I didn't want to buy. but the whole thing was just like... But then there's the risk that if he doesn't work and then someone buys the other ones and then he's not there and then I have to go through the whole

kerfuffle again and in between so the ending of the story is I got pregnant on my fourth game predictively of course I did and in between three and four I had like a six month break

because I was too scared I ended up buying three vials I was too scared to log on and look to see if he was still there Because I was like, if he isn't there I'm going to pass out at this stage because I can't go through

that choosing again because now he was in my head his genetics whatever was in my head and that was the right one and of course he was there and it was all fine and you know but I...

See he was the right one yeah there was the right answer he was the right answer yeah I was like deal or no deal he would all pass out Like, no. What, if I was in all Edmonds? No, if we weren't on deal or not.

Oh, God. No, based on the way your two heads work, I don't suit. Just no way. I think you'd be the longer, I've still been there in history. I'd still be there, 100%. So you had three IUIs that didn't work. Didn't work. That's really savage.

Yeah, it was because I was convinced it was going to work on the first go. And you didn't necessarily have any problem. that would indicate work. But also that just means that in normal life, that is just having sex three times. Of course, yeah. So actually... And it's on average six months, right?

Yeah, and it would have been meant... I think the statistics are that 70% of couples get pregnant in the first year of trying. Yeah, and in that year, while you're ovulating, I suspect you're doing it more than once. Of course, yeah, over a few days. Whereas for me, it was literally one shot a month. Yeah.

So the fact that I got pregnant at all, I still think, is fairly miraculous. But yeah, because I was so convinced it would happen on the first go and when it didn't. I mean, we've all been, it's that crushing, it's just never going to happen. This is awful, you know, am I doing the right thing? Should I do it? Is it because it's just me? Is it because I didn't do IPF?

You know, all the things that, you know. But I was, because again, I'm really stubborn. I was like, no, I said four, I'm going to do four. But then after the third, I was so broken. and like shit this isn't going to work and I was so convinced it was going to work that when it didn't it was just well like with anyone trying

and when it doesn't work it's it's all you can think about it's crushing and so I gave myself time out and then was convinced it wasn't going to work on the fourth go and on the first three like I'd got my nails done before I went

and I wore my son to it and I shaved my lips and la la and made a big scene of going up and by the third I was just like oh God, you know, up there with ripped pants and just looking mental and didn't care. And I just sort of drove up, went in, came back, drove back, didn't worry about it, didn't do any of the things that will get you pregnant. You know, I don't eat peas, all these mad, old wives tell, that I'm sure have science behind them, but I was becoming obsessed with those things, though, you know?

I was becoming obsessed with them. and then I just did none of it and of course that's the one that worked because I was convinced it wasn't and I was just like that two week wait must have been... Do you mate? It's quite a well on the fourth one I'd sort of forgotten about it and I was with my nieces

and feeling really sick none of us put it together and I did the pregnancy test at my brother's house and then just left it walked off and then came back quite a while later it's like oh god I took the pregnancy test I'm going to check it and and then there was just a lot of screeching from me and my nieces.

Oh my God. Because I'd, yeah, I was so convinced it wasn't going to work. On that one, I was just like, but I was just going through the motions because I said I'd do four, so I'll do four, but I'll have to start, you know, saving up to do IVF and yada yada. But you still had that as you're going into the fourth. It was like, this isn't going to be the end of the road. I'm going to.

I'm going to. I'm going to do it after this. This is fine. So whatever. Okay. You're just going to do it because I said I'd do it. I thought it's fair now. Yeah.

know. Yeah. And that was the one. And that was the one. And how was the pregnancy? Absolutely horrific. Okay. Go on. I didn't have HG, but there was a lot of testing to see if I did. I mean, I was sick for 42 weeks. I was the thinest at 42 weeks pregnant than I've ever been in my life. Sounds like you had HG. Yeah, I mean, they're possibly, yeah. I was, I was devastated because all I'd ever wanted is, you know, that blooming pregnancy and people to go, God, you look so well. And maybe like, oh, yeah, it's because I'm blooming. And actually, I just, I would fall asleep in business meetings. I'd fall asleep in my driveway. Just this crutch.

And just remembering waking up in the middle of the night a lot, just thinking, what have I done? I've done this to myself. Oh, you've got to. And I feel like this because I shouldn't have done it. Yeah. I feel like this because I shouldn't be doing this. And, you know, just all the mad things you think is.

as a woman in her lower step. Yeah, yeah, yeah, hormones. So, yeah, it wasn't ideal. But then as soon as he came out, I was like, oh, it's lovely, I'm fine. Yeah. I didn't, obviously, because... Just had a baby? Just had a baby, but I didn't feel sick.

And I was like, oh, my God, this is absolutely. So you can relate. Yeah, I mean, it's the instant. It's just wild. And although your body well-minded, because we had, obviously, obviously a traumatic birth, obviously, that my body felt battered, but I didn't feel sick.

And I was just like, oh my God, it was fine, it was going to be fine. Everyone was correct that was going to be fine. But it was just, it was a long 42 weeks. And he was due on the 1st of April, obviously a little Aprilful, and didn't come until the 16th of April. That's that.

Were you induced? Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah, you ran the gamut. On the 14th. Oh, God. It's a two days. Okay, so that's a lot

I know you're like, cool, cool Yeah No, no, there's some more at me Yeah, brilliant But he was born on my dad's birthday weirdly And my dad died when I was 12 And that and it had never been a Because he was due on the first

It was like, well, you're never going to be And then it was suddenly like, oh my God It's amazing, that is wonderful And apparently my sister He was born at 10 to midnight And my sisters were sort of looking at everyone Going get the baby out And the next

Do whatever you've got to do Get it out Because we've now got to this stage, it would be unfortunate to miss it. Also, that would have been your third day in the end it now. Yeah. But that's also, yeah, why I don't have a second. Is it? Well, I couldn't afford it.

I couldn't afford the treatment again. I couldn't afford childcare. I couldn't afford all of that. I just couldn't do it. So we have a nice enough life. We don't go on holidays particularly, but we can afford to. go out and go to the theatre and stuff and the ever expensive swimming lessons and things like that but if there were two I don't think I'd be able to do that which was a consideration

as well but I just couldn't afford it yeah and by that stage I would have been 3940 whether then I'd have had to have I would have to have IVF possibly you know you never know all of those things are still well it's not science so it could be anything and I I couldn't put myself through it as a mum by that stage. I wanted to be as mentally healthy as I could be for him. But also if you were as sick as you were in that first pregnancy, you couldn't have done it on your own. Like I couldn't have done second pregnancy.

I could barely do a second pregnancy with an incredible partner. So it's just. Yeah, I, it wouldn't have worked out. That's really sad. Yeah, because I'm one of four. Yeah. Because I'd always pictured hundreds being there. that the fact that it was money and sickness that made me just have one is rubbish.

But equally, I've got a really healthy ace. Like, he's delicious kid. He's lovely. Yeah, pushing that to me, you know, and he's just like, do I push? Because I've got what I wanted. Yeah. And he's healthy and we get on and everything's been fine. And yeah, it was a pretty ropey start, but it's actually turned out all good.

and that do I risk that and the fact that money made me not be able to is good but equally it's sad that that's the reason that but yeah you're not alone with that you know like I was literally really about this this morning you know that Bridget Phillips

and there was an article saying you know like that they're really doing everything they can to increase birth rates because they're at an all-time loan it's like you're not doing everything you can of course it's a little time loan is increasing my child I had no concept of childcare

and the cost of it at all because in my head I was like everyone does it so this must all be manageable because my friends have three kids my friends have four kids my friend and they're just normal people they don't have billions sat there waiting to pay something you know it must be fine

and I didn't look into it properly which isn't but had I have done I wouldn't have had him really had I have looked into how much childcare was in that first three years before they go to school well and then when they're at school because guess what that doesn't work out the maths of being a full time working parent and work stops at three I mean school stops at three and works stops at five like the maths doesn't math with that at all but had I've worked out how much money I wouldn't it wouldn't I'd have just been like well I can't do that so that's that so I'm glad I didn't but equally it's a really big shock and I had to sell my house to do yeah to fund it yeah yeah but thank God I had a house and actually being able to do

the fertility treatment itself is the most privileged thing in the world because like I say the NHS it's a lottery I had a house I could remortgage to get the money to do that a billion people don't who then go to Facebook marketplace to get sperm or

you know because that's the that's how they do it and I get it I'd have done the same if I because it's a visceral feeling to be a mother, to want to be a mother. Yeah. Definitely.

Can we talk about then the other side of this? Yeah. You've had the baby. Yeah. Horrible pregnancy. Traumatic birth sounds... We're in. Yeah.

Well, yeah. You've got the baby. Yeah. What the fuck did you do from there? Because I had a baby with a partner and it was like... It was just like... my world turned upside down and it was like he had he ever had a kid before was his first as well whereas i had my two sisters who both had three children and they lived with me for i'm going to

say three weeks did they um on and off so one of my sisters lives i live in oxfordshire one of them has a deli in dartmouth so she was driving up and down to south devon the other one has a business and Buckinghamshire was again and their own children like but they did that for you that's so lovely yeah and I

I think that's what because they were quite calm because they'd done it before years before but they'd done it before and it isn't that kind of that fear if the shit what do we do

oh my God I'm home with it now oh hiya what do you need oh is that what's you know that whole whereas they'd be like oh I remember this actually if you try holding

them like this I think that works or you know that kind of you don't need to bath it now you know him sorry we've moved on he's been born you don't need to bath him now but you know the baby doesn't need a bath within the first 15 seconds of being or you know yeah um yeah so all it so actually that's how in the first three and I remember them like the first time I was on my own with him I was just sort of staring at him like uh are you sure we're leaving me is that a great idea and that you know obviously a lot of course needs to be able to do this all the time you'll be fine um

so I was actually really lucky looking back because yeah I didn't have a partner who hadn't done it before you hadn't got a clue what was happening um I'd I've got two professional mums who were just like yeah it's fine don't worry about it I bet that was amazing actually

looking back and blessed them they did the night feeds with me oh that's so lovely so I was sort of because I hadn't slept one or did they to be fair for the three days I was in labour. Oh, God. So we were all a bit, but they'd take the baby, and Herb never breastfed for various reasons.

And so they could feed him at night. That's great. Again, I slept. So actually, looking back, I had a sort of dreamy VIP experience in that three week. Yeah, I was absolutely fine. Yeah, when I now see friends who are there with their husbands, and they're both like, what are we doing? and trying to breastfeed and no one's sleeping

and, you know, all of that kind of thing. I was really lucky, really lucky. There's something to be said as well when you're the only one making the decisions. Like obviously, I mean, it is easier with a partner in lots of ways, but sometimes. Well, when you're the only one making the decision, it's like... My decision's final.

Yeah, and there is a piece if you can get... Alex always said it to me, my husband always said it to me at the beginning when Arlo was born. He said, you've got all the instincts. He's like, so I'll vacuum. He's like, if whenever something was wrong with Arlo or anything, he'd be like, what is your gut saying because that's what we're doing? Yeah.

Because you're built for this and I'm an appendage really. Like I'll be a helpful one, but like we have to trust your gut. Yeah, okay. And it was nice to hear someone say that, but it did feel like all the big stuff I made the decision on. And I was like, well, there's a piece in that. But you can just do that. And I still can, which is the flip side of everything is that it is just my decision. Of course.

but also it is just my decision. Yeah. If you have to come down on the side of that, is it freeing and great that it's just your decision or is it terrifying and relentless? Looking at a lot of my friends and their relationships, I think it's freeing and great. Okay.

Yeah. Of the things that they bicker about or argue about, I think possibly it is. But then there's the bigger things of what school should I send them to. Should it be that one? Because they have great aftercare, after school care or should it be that one because they've got four of school? You know, those weigh quite heavy.

but equally if I had a husband would he be able to interject anything more than I can on that anyway so again what is the right answer we don't know so I think possibly freeing and there's no I often talk about the fact

there's no resentment so there's no one for me to resent at home if the bins aren't put out that's because I've not put them out it's not because John Boy said he was going to put them out and you ever resent yourself today well I'm with most things yeah

but just yeah because I'm like come on why didn't you do that you forgot to do that again but I don't have that kind of he said he was going to do it and it's not and it's the third time

he's not done it and he was late again last night or you know there's none of that which I think would take up quite a lot of my thoughts so yeah I think sometimes it's more praying sometimes

can I ask about you told us before we started recording that Herb knows everything all about what happened and how he came into the world. Was that a decision that you made straight away that you wanted him to be aware? Yeah, because he was never going to be my dirty little secret or to feel that anything other than a normal kid with a normal life. It's just, it's made up differently. Our jigsaw pieces are different. And I think if you talk about things early doors, it's just normal if you tell someone they're adopted when they're 24

world shatter trauma you know and we were never we have adoption in our family and we've always been very open in that as well so it was never like a something that I would ever want to because I don't ever want him to not feel like he knows absolutely everything and then he can ask and obviously I'd change the language throughout depending on what stage he's at yeah um but yeah he's always known and he's got a book of i had a friend illustrate the book of all the facts from the sperm donation so of all the that's lovely so he's got i my heart was like oh look darling oh yeah great and i like but it's you don't understand look yeah yeah great and I keep sort of showing it to me he's like yeah not bothered

do you feel like that's his dad or do you feel like that's his donor no it's his donor he doesn't have a dad he has a donor to me but that is very subjective depending on what solo parent you talk to and what language they use yeah and people will get heated about what they think is right but for me it's not that I've really I don't have huge but it's just he doesn't have a dad. There is no one else that of bringing him up. He has a donor who I am more grateful to than anyone else in the world.

He's an absolute superhero. Yeah. But he isn't his dad. And he can meet him when he's 18, so it's an open donor. I was going to, oh wow, okay, I was going to ask. Which was really important to me. Okay.

Because that's his decision, that's not mine. I didn't know it was possible to have it. Is it? That's not possible in the UK, is it? Not in the UK. Another reason why. Okay. Although, fact check.

Yeah, the law changed. The law changed. Oh, it did, okay. I can't remember from which to which. This is the problem with you interviewing a peri-menopause or a woman with a seven-year-old child on her own. Because the things she can remember are limited. Yeah, so that was a big problem. Oh, no, that's what it is.

It became that all donors had to be open. So the sperm donor rate went dramatically, cool word, drastically down because people wanted to be anonymous when they donated sperm. So when he's 18, he then, if he expresses interest, he is able to go to Denmark, well, contact and the donor doesn't have to say yes, obviously, to meeting him. He doesn't have to, but in his notes he said he would be open to it. Wow. That's lovely. And you feel okay about that?

I do now. Talk to me in 11 years. I don't know. Yeah, I mean, it's nothing to do with me. It's absolutely what her wants to do and what he feels comfortable with. How do you feel looking at him as he grows up, the parts of him that aren't you?

Yeah. How does that feel? Well, I'm always worried about that. You know, when you look at someone, or your kids, you'll be looking. and being like, oh, that looks just like Alex or, you know, whoever, that's Alex's grand's ears or, I was like, oh, God, that's going to feel all he was. He came out and he looks exactly like me.

I mean, he is, it's as if the donor had no jeans. Yeah. He has my face. He's just a small boy. But then there are things like, yeah, some of the things he does. And I'm like, well, that's definitely your donor. You know, he loves maths. You know, those kind of, that's not me.

That is not from me. And he's upset, like he eats like a rich 65-year-old Spaniard. He has like anchovies and sardine, oh, jars of olives. Olive does that. Olive, it's unbelievable. If we're in the season market, she goes, Mommy, can I have an olive? And I'm like, shh, people are going to think we're weird. You're too. We were somewhere once and he was like, Mommy, mommy, do I have to choose between mackerel and antipies?

Yes. It's the most of all, please, no one listen. As I'm there, going, can I have some waffles, please. but yeah he has a very sort of scandy palate of food that's kind of amazing that because you get to learn I know it's yeah it's so things like that I thought it would be visual but he is not I mean he is 100% thorn but it is the other things I'm like oh that's not

our family yeah see my husband doesn't have a dad different reason but you know a dad and I always think that I always thought maybe his curiosity would be more piqued when we had kids. Yes. It's not. It's weird. I think because if you know you can't access that, you've just kind of got a... But I think for him, he's like, I have my mum.

Yeah. But my mum's my parent. And look how he is. He's amazing. I'm going to have to tell her. Yeah, but I think people project a lot onto him. And I did. Yes, okay.

For Alex's whole, for our whole, I've been with him for 12 years. And I've projected a lot of like my curiosity and my feelings onto him. yeah and about but he's completely solid in his that's just how it and that's what i don't you know i'll point out with any time you see a book or something where it's a single parent he's like oh but my mum so and say single parents well yeah yeah cool yeah and i don't have my parents died when i was a teenager so he doesn't have any grandparents either so he has that kind of where he'll look at other people and their grandparents and he you know he'll ask questions about that he's like take, oh, I just don't have me.

Yeah. But you've got ten, you've got ten nieces and cousins. That's amazing. And, you know, which doesn't make up for grandparents and, you know, but it's different. It's a different. And by the sounds of it, wonderful aunties as well. Yeah, he's the luckiest boy in so many ways. And that's another thing that I want to talk to him about it because I don't ever want

it to feel like it's a missing thing. It isn't. He's got other thing. Our jigsaw is just built differently. and that's fine it still makes a really great picture it's just the pieces are different and that's how it is that's how we are

beautiful notes I'm done yeah thank you so much I'm welcome thanks Hannah I know I want to talk to you about how you parent I'm just so many things very relaxed can I know we have to win but can I just ask on practical things yes do you have to lean really hard on your friends

to help you I'm really bad at asking and actually now he's older it's easier because he's more self-sufficient. So I am really bad at asking. But like you're sick or you need help picking your month from school or works running. We have an amazing team at school of parents in his year group. And the other day I was ill the first time in ages. And I just phoned someone and said, please can you pick him up?

I don't think I'm going to be able to get there for three. If you could just bring him back here, that would be amazing. And she brought him back at seven. Fed or, you know, and things like that are. But I am pretty bad at asking. But actually it's kind of fine. I know when to ask. I don't ever want to use my tokens.

That's my problem. I don't understand that. Use my tokens when they're not needed to be used. Yeah. But it's much easier now. He's a bit more self-sufficient. We just need to live somewhere more helpful because we live in a different village where his school is.

So it just means that we have to get an accommodation. hard to do anything, which hard. It makes things harder. Yeah. But yeah. I just, I admire you so much. I think this is really cool.

Oh, thanks. Well, yeah, we'll talk to her in 10 years and see what he says. He's going to be great. He's really great. He's really great. He's really great. It's like, it's really cool. Thank you so much for coming to talk to us.

No, thank you for having us. Should I delete that is part of the ACAS creator network.