Should I Delete That? - "I don't wanna spend my life being relatable" with Soph Butler

Episode Date: April 17, 2022

This week, Alex is back from an eventful stint in Manhattan, and Em joins us from her holiday to talk to Sophie Butler. Soph shares how being experimental and playful with makeup and fashion has helped her become her best self. She talks about being unapologetically joyful despite the critics, and the perils of trying to be relatable.Follow Soph on Instagram @sophjbutlerShow timestamps:Good, Bad & Awkward - 00:03:46Interview with Soph - 00:25:18Is It Just Me? - 01:23:22Follow us on Instagram @shouldideletethatEmail us at [e-mail] by Mindler, use code DELETE22 for 50% off your first therapy session.Mindler is an online therapy app, offering video call sessions with psychologists. Self-help programmes are also available in the app, covering a range of diagnoses.Produced & edited by Daisy GrantMusic by Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We are delighted to be partnered back up with online therapy app Mindler. If you're struggling with your mental health and it's impacting your daily life or you just need someone to talk to, Mindler is a brilliant app that is helping to make therapy accessible. Mindler is a digital healthcare provider that offers online therapy with psychologists via video call in their app. You can choose which psychologist that you'd like to speak to and on the website and app you can filter by the psychologist's specialties and also see their photo and bio before you book. Mindler has short waiting times and once you've booked in your first video call on the app with a psychologist you get unlimited access to a whole library of self-help programs

which can either be carried out independently or with the help of a psychologist these programs cover a range of diagnoses including stress, depression, anxiety, burnout and more you can use code delete 22 to get 50% off your first session Oh my god why did I post that?

Ah I don't know what to do! Should I delete that? Yeah, you should definitely delete that. Hello, we had some technical difficulties. I am in holiday mode. I have no like work, brain capacity for anything. One appointment a day and I'm done for. I was just saying to you before we recorded that with two weeks, a two week holiday,

with the first week, everybody's delighted for you. And they're like, I know, you deserve a break up the best time. So happy for you. And then by the second week, they're like, All right, you fucking wanker, get home. We know you've had a lovely time and we're absolutely sick of it. So I just want to say for all the listeners today, I'm sorry. I will be home by the time the next day.

Do not be sorry. You just, you live your best life. You have a great time. You've done me a massive solid today because you are currently recording from bed. It's like 9pm England time. It's good. We're here. You're home.

Are you well? Are you good? What's her? I haven't even spoken to you in the week. I haven't spoken to you since you didn't let Dave vomit in your handbag because you're so stingy and a bad wife. We're back. We're home.

We're home from New York and we went straight to, we got back from New York and then went straight to the Lake District for his cousin's wedding. Stunning. Yeah, so that was really nice. Gorgeous. It's so beautiful up there.

Not as exciting as you, but... Well, you're not as sunburned as me either, so there's peaks and chalk. I was going to say, you're very colourful. this light's not doing the massive favours I look quite great in the flesh but if one more person text me on Instagram being like put sunkeye on I'm like

what do you think is happening here do you think I just come out in the morning and I'm just like ah come on son like I'll take his on obviously I've got sun cream on I'm just I'm one of those people I go all sorts of colours but in the end it always works out all right

so although I admittedly today I am the hue saturation is a little high quite high if I was editing your picture I would turn down the red temptation I put up a photo on Instagram earlier the temptation for me just to like

slightly knock down the saturation because I didn't want any shit but I would pray I was like you know what I can't do any of body confidence shit if I'm not going to own my mistakes you know what I mean like we can't all be fucking irresponsible adults that remember to put sun cream on every 22 minutes like some of us

some of us have too much wine at lunch and just and sleep you know And what about us? We deserve to love our bodies too. And do you know what? You don't owe anyone responsible sunbathing. Do you know what I mean? That's true.

Thanks, Sal. That's made me feel better. I mean, I owe it to myself and my future fucking. I'm going to have like, my boobs are going to look like someone's put like golf balls into a pair of socks by the time I come home. It's just so saggy. Beautiful. Beautiful. But kick us off.

The good. The bad. And the awkward. Kick us off. Have you got anything good? Good from your week, please, Your Honour, or bad, or awkward, anything. Well, I'm going to start with my bad. Do you know what?

I get tagged, probably, and this is no exaggeration, probably about 15 times a day in heatless curls stuff, like tagged and sent stuff about heatless curls, right? People like, have you seen this one? Have you seen this one? Is this your next go? Is this worth another go? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Anyway, I bought into the hype. again despite having vowed not to do it again I vowed not to do it again and Dave said stop doing it Al just stopped subjecting yourself to it and I did and I was successful for quite a long time anyway and people kept saying me this one over and over again I relapsed and it was this man and he put a phone ring around his hair and then he woke up in the morning presumably took the foam rig out and he had these stunning, glossy, bouncy curls. So I very naively thought, I can do that. Let me do that. I'm going to do that. And obviously I tried it and it fell very literally, literally and metaphorically fell flat. It was bad, possibly the worst attempt I

ever had. And I think I was duped. I think the guy that did the video initially, I think it was a fake. Do you? Yes, because you've been had. When I uploaded it, everyone was like, oh, but he, his curls are too small for that ring. So we think that he's curled his hair

and then, and then faked it all. And I feel duped, I feel had. I feel betrayed on your behalf. That's a really, that's a really shitty, does he not know what you've been through on your quest? The He lives girls. How are irresponsible?

So, yeah, so I put it on the grid and some of the comments were making me laugh right this one are you trying to compare bleached short thin hair with natural curled thick long hair said subborn so i replied saying stop with the compliments you're making me blush and then another girl said okay so no offense i mean when you started with no offense you're always gonna you're always gonna you're about to say something really shitty yeah yeah i'm always going to get offended. No offence. But did you really expect the same result from your hair as from the dude with the natural curls? You are setting yourself up to fail here, love. Your hair is thin and

looks rather straight. I really don't think that heatless curls will take you far. Sad face, crying face. It's like, wow. And I replied and said, stop treating me like I'm clever. Because yes, I did expect, I was expecting some beautiful, I don't know, results. Well, they do market these things for all hair types. They do. And I've seen people with thin hair get good results and oh, I don't know. I mean, you'll probably do it and come out with something beautiful and luscious and whatever. If I do it,

I won't tell you. I did feel so bad because I didn't realise the same night that you were, that you were attempting this that I'd plopped my hair for the first time. And I was like, God, my girls look amazing. And then all my DMs were like, why are you doing this to Alex? Why do you hate Alex?

Why are you ruining Alex's life? Why are you making Alex cry? I was like, I hate the need. It's the same thing with the sunburn and you're all thin hair. Why are you telling me? Like, why are you telling me that I'm burned? Why are you telling her that she's got thin hair? We know. We know. I live with my hair. No offense, but you've got really thin hair. I don't know if you know. It's just like, all right. If I had a pound for how many people over the last week have told me I have thin hair. It's like, I am the one that lives with it on top of my head every day. I touch it all the time. I know that my hair is thin

but thank you so much for reminding me day in, day out so that's been fun anyway, what about you? Where do you want to start? Well, my bad, I don't really have a bad because I'm still having the best one of my life I'll just tell you that my heat rash

is spread from my feet to my tits which is heinous but it's not really a bad that I'm going to dwell on because I think that might be a first world problem in the highest order. I'm taking my antihistamines which is fine apart from the fact that I'm super drowsy off the love.

I keep falling asleep, but that's okay. But I'm just going to tell you my awkward because I was panicking today. I was like, oh my God, I don't have an awkward and it's going to be so bad. And, you know, like, I was just, I was racking my brain. I was like, what have I done? And then today I was playing catch with my friend because I'm a child and I can't do grown-up things on holiday. I have to resort to literally playing ballgames.

And I was playing catch. And he said, my friend said, okay, give me everything you've got. And I was like, is that a challenge? So I picked up this ball and literally with every fibre of muscle I possess, which isn't not a lot, you know what I mean? Like I'm not one of these like, oh, like dainty throwers. I'm like, I've got like a masculine throw. Like I almost grunt when I throw. And everybody goes, oh, that's a good throw.

And I'm like, I know. So I'm actually, I have anyway, what I, what I don't have, I have, I have is aim as it transpires. So if Brett said, can you give me all you've got? And I was like, okay, and I picked up this tennis ball. And Alex, I swear to God, it happened in slow motion. With every single piece of strength I possessed, I threw the tennis ball. And I saw Fred miss it, which I'm going to hold him to account for a little bit of this, because, yes, it wasn't a great throw, but it was a terrible attempt to the catch.

And out of nowhere, from behind this bush, this old man's head just appeared. And all I could see was the ball. and this guy's head and I was like oh my God oh my God oh my God but I literally must have been like a split

second this guy's face and it was like the fucking Matrix he obviously saw this tennis ball which was soaking wet come out of nowhere

and he pulled his head back and it missed by literally I mean he said afterwards when I spoke to him he said he felt the water particles from the tennis ball

all over his face it was so close and on See, like, I don't need to chew my own horn and be like, oh my God, I'm so strong. But it legitimately nearly broke this guy's nose. Like, if it would have hit him, it would have smashed his face in. And he was old. Like, you know, he was not in the market for a broken nose.

It wouldn't have been endearing. It wouldn't have been like, ha, ha, ha, ha. You know, lads. It was like, this guy was like, he probably has grandchildren. In fact, he definitely has grandchildren. And I nearly took his head off. So, it was so embarrassing. So embarrassing.

And this is, you know, like, I'm on a nice place. And I've got to, I'm still here. You know what I mean? I've got a few more days. And I've got to see these people and his wife was so nice but also, you know, I can see her the fear in her eyes.

I just assassination attempts on my husband. It was so bad. So bad. It would have been my bad had it hit him. So luckily, luckily it's just an awkward, not a bad. My mum, honestly, I haven't been told off like that for years.

My mum looked to me and she's like, Emily, you can't play a game, you can't. And I just, I just thought, because we've been coming here since I was a kid. I just had flashbacks to my childhood being like, darling, you can't. play out here.

Stop playing with balls on beach. There are people trying to have a nice time. I've read five books this trip so far. Okay. That's good. Oh, well done. Thank you. I'm a multitasker.

Do you know what? I've just bought new books. I'm going to show them to you here. One is called No Mud, No Lotus, which is the art of transforming suffering. Okay. That sounds healthy. The other one is called...

Are you okay? Do you want to talk about it? No, it's not any specific kind of suffering. Are you all right? Bit of light reading, is it? I'm lost without you, M. And then the next one is The Demon Haunted World, Science is a Candle in the Dark.

Are you okay? Look at you. First of all, you hit me with a conspiracy theory with your man with the curled hair and now you're coming at me with devil books. That's it. I'm going to come home. you're going to be in the Illuminati.

You and Beyonce be like, where's ours? And you want to see it? No, she's in the Bermuda Triangle. She's gone. I just thought, you know, I'm determined to finish these, so I'll let you know. Why don't you buy a book that's actually good?

And then you can just, and then you'll have the incentive to finish it. Because I like this stuff. I'm interested in this stuff. I just can't fucking finish them for shit. I need to like pin myself down, like handcuff myself. You just spit matchsticks on your eyeballs.

I've read some really good books since I've been here, and I will recommend, Specifically, Rachel's Holiday by Marianne Keyes, and I'm putting this into the ether. I want Marianne on the podcast. If anyone knows Marianne Keyes, can you just be like, look, we know these girls. They're a disaster, but you'll love them.

She's an author and I love her, but that was one of her books. My mum actually recommended to me, and it was so good. So if anyone's looking for a really great, lovely, light, but also kind of serious and just brilliantly warming read, Rachel's holiday is very good.

And if you haven't come across Marianne Keyes before, then read Grownups, because that's the absolute tips. I love Marriand and all the books she writes. Oh, yeah. She also has a podcast. I just obsessed with her. Oh, let's try and get her on.

Let's see if she'll come on. What have you got this awkward for me, please, Your Honor? So my awkward is Dave's awkward because he was extremely awkward. So in New York, I'd spoken to a few people before going out there, and they said, if you like musicals, you have to go to Ellen's Stardust Diner, which is basically this diner so it's where you eat don't know why I bothered to explaining that

because it's clues in the name so the waiters are all Broadway hopefuls like they're hoping to get cast they're ready to get cast and they sing to you they do like acts and dances and singing while they serve you your food and it is so good

but anyway the day before I was like Dave I'm taking us to brunch tomorrow I was like, okay, is it, you know, what's it like? And I was like, oh, it's just stuff that you're like, I promise. And I took him to this diner and it was the campus best thing, like full of glitter. There was confetti everywhere. There was dancing. There was singing.

There was pancakes. I was literally in my absolute element and I've never seen Dave so uncomfortable. In my entire life, I was. clapping. Dave got a sneaky video of me clapping because I was like woo. Al loves the clap. We've been through it. We know she

loves it. She fucking loves the clap. Round and a close. And they were so good and I've just never seen Dave so uncomfortable. He had his head down at all times and I was like you can enjoy this, you know and he was like I can't. It's not in my nature to enjoy something

like this. So that was his awkward which I thoroughly enjoyed. So what's your good? I'm not allowing myself a good this week because the good is very obvious. I'm still on holiday. So that's it. And that's all I'm going to say on the matter because I don't want anybody to hate me any more than they already do.

Okay, cool. I mean, my good isn't great either. So should we just skip it? No, that's too depressing. I'm actually just going to say, should we just not have any good this week? I'm actually just going to say on the good thing. I realized yesterday, like I was so anxious before we came here.

Like I was very, I think my following grew so much during lockdown and like I was very much in the UK and stuff and, you know, that's kind of where all my followers knew me and, and I found like during COVID when when Instagramers or whatever went away, you know, it was fucking jarring, wasn't it? And like I think lockdown has made our relationship with work so weird. And I didn't really, I haven't really taken any time off in like months or probably years really. And, you know, even with my face and stuff, I think. I've just had a very, like, oddly kind of, not stressful, but like, unrelaxing couple of, or a year maybe, anyway, since, since my first jaw operation. And it's been really fun and I've loved my life and everything, but I haven't really had any time off. And I was so anxious about coming here because I was just like, oh, God, like, no. Anyway, and I didn't want to share anything because I thought everyone would be angry with me for going away. And actually, it's been so nice. And I don't think I realized, like, how much I needed some time just to be, like, chilling.

and I feel amazing and really well rested and I've got to that lovely stage where you're like, okay, I'm really looking forward to coming home now because I miss Boer and my work and stuff but I really felt like I've slept I was drunk for like three days on the bath so it was really bad like I literally just lost three days and I didn't pick up my phone or anything

and I never would have done that you know even when I'm still like going at it both ends I'm always still coming at it from one end and just for the last like 10 days I've just gone at it from just the one end and it's been so lovely and I've still obviously got terrible guilt about it, but less, less guilt than they would normally have.

So that's actually been really good for me, I think. I feel really nice. Great, good on you. Look, everyone deserves a break. You deserve a break. And like, even if you didn't deserve a break, like you can go on holiday, you know, and just live your life.

But you do deserve a break as well. And I just, I don't think you should feel guilty about it at all. We can say it till the cows come home that we respond, that everybody's responsible for their own triggers. but there is a balance between, you know, people accepting that, you know, if things make them feel bad, they shouldn't look at it. And also, we do have a responsibility to an extent, I think, to be responsible or at least aware that not everybody's going to be in the headspace to see what we're sharing at any given time. And I think sometimes, you know, like, you know, you don't want to flout things. And so I think there is a balance to be struck.

And I think our jobs, you just have to balance it. you know it's just more of a more of an activity but I mean that you know it's it's fine it's just I think it's quite new to me because because my following grew so much during COVID yeah yeah yeah same I am like particularly I am like conscious conscious of like what people think of me if I say this or that I'm second guessing all the time and I'm like taking stuff down as you know deleting stuff constantly I'm like I just I feel yeah exactly I feel very unsure of myself a lot and then I saw this quote the the other day and I thought this was so apt it said they're going to talk about you regardless so you might as well live the life you want while they do it and I was like that is so true

like they are going to talk no matter what like no matter what you put up what you upload someone is not going to like it somewhere but also even in your own life you know like people who don't do it on Instagram that apprise you know if you're at school if you're at whatever people are always going to chat shit because that's what human beings do you know And particularly unhealed humans. Unheeled people, bitch. It's what happens. And you can't live a smaller life because you're worried about unheeled people bitching about you. And I don't mean that in a holiday capacity. I just mean that in a general capacity. I don't know. But it's true. I like that quite. Have you got anything good to tell me, Al? Anything good at all? Anything good? Just pop me something out the air. We can't have all bads and awkwards. Without it sounding very boasty, like, oh, I went to New York. But I actually did have a really good time in New York. And I was worried that I was going to be lonely because obviously Dave was at the office. But. And I'm not good at being by myself. I'm quite a dependent person.

Like in London, I'm not. I feel like I'm okay in London. But the moment you put me out of my comfort zone, I'm lost. I'm completely lost. I'm like a fish out of water. So I kind of, I knew it's going to be a challenge. And I was just like, I'm just going to do it. Yeah, I had a really nice time as someone who's very not street smart at all.

It was, yeah, it was nice. It was nice to push myself a little bit and do things by myself. And we went to the comedy, a comedy store on our last night. And I had the time of my life. I love, I love live comedy so much. It's literally my favorite, favorite thing to do. It's so good. No, no, no.

You could only go to live comedy when you know that the comedian is the fucking funniest person in the whole world. Nothing stresses me out more than a wild card than somebody new, than somebody's first show. I'm like, ah, what's that one in London called where you go? And they ring the bell. And if you're, ah!

Yeah, and they, and they, and they, And the crowd decides if they're good enough and if they're not, they get booed off. No, it's horrible. I've been to it twice and I'm genuine. It makes me want to cry. Like, even thinking about it, I get stressed out. No, see, to me that's bad comedy.

I don't like the judgment. I do not like the let's ring a bell to determine whether or not they should say absolutely not. But if you get like a good comedy club, it's just, to me there's nothing like it. It's like the best night out for me. What if they're a bad one? But if you go to a good comedy club, you don't, like at the comedy store in London, like you'd never get that.

But like my totally irrational fear, because it's obviously never going to happen, is me being on the stage and introducing an act, right? But then they're like, oh, sorry, it's going to be 10 minutes until the act comes out. You've got to fill the time. Like that is an irrational fear for me. I remember it happened.

I remember watching it on TV when I was young. And it was at a festival, and the actor was supposed to come out. And then they were like, sorry, oh, it's going to be five minutes. So what should we talk about? Like, that is my idea of hell. Can you imagine? Improvisation. I just couldn't do it to save my life.

Yeah, I think these people are a different ilk. They're brave. Let's talk to a comedian. If anyone's got a comedian that they love, can you, like, a reasonable one. Not like Rebel Wilson because she doesn't want to talk to us, okay? She said no. She said no. Yeah, and we're fine about it.

um yeah basically i i want to talk someone about doing comedy like at the comedy like starting out in comedy ah like i actually want to talk to female comedians as well because that that as well like you have to work so much harder to be a funny woman like you have to work so much hard to be a female comedian it's like i i always think that at the comedy store things it's just like oh my god like first of all people get annoyed with you i think for like talking about like women's things because they're like oh well you know we need to find people comedians that can talk about other things. But then, you know, like, it's a massive part of who they are, but then it instantly either ostracizes half the audience because most of the viewers are men or like, I don't know,

like it just feels like so hard to strike the balance for women and they're already on the back foot because societally, society, we said that women can't be funny or they can't be pretty and funny. So like, there's like a lack of respect almost that comes. And I feel like the, really sadly, the disappointment is palpable when, and a female, a comedian is introduced on stage, which is so sad because people think, oh, they're not going to be as funny as the men. Right.

Yeah, so basically, neither is it going to be comedians. That's okay. Actually, I've got something to tell you, and I was going to tell you when I got home, but I've actually booked you in. We've got a slot at the comedy store next Tuesday night at 7. You're introducing me. Don't worry, I won't be late.

You might be. Imagine. Imagine and then I just wouldn't show up and you'd have to improvise. I'll be like, um, what did the Tuesday itself in the mirror? Hello me. Hello me. I'm really sorry for knowing it. That's the only joke I know.

I've got an interview to introduce to you and I'm so excited by this as I am every time. But this one especially because this is my friend, our friend, Sof Butler, who if you don't follow, you're a goddamn damn fool. Oh, okay, I'm going to read Sophie's bio because she says it better than we could say. 20-something disabled queen in the city figuring out fashion, fitness and feminism, cosmopolitan influencer of the year. I like that she's put that in there. Love it. We talked to Sophie a lot about fashion in this episode and she has recently moved to London and she is absolutely living her best life and it's so wonderful to see such unapologetic joy and confidence and I just think Sov emanates power and I love her very much and I'm so.

so excited that we've got to talk to her. And she's inspired us to be more creative, hasn't she? With, at least with me, she's inspired me. You sound so nervous as you say it. I'm going to do new makeup. I'm going to expand my fashion horizons, watch this space, because she's great and she turned up looking so good. So good.

She just made me, I just felt like her mom. Like, I just felt like, I felt like we look like her moms. Yeah, it's kind of sad. But also, we love her. a lot and a lot and she's going to make us cool. Watch this face. I feel like she was representing Gen Z and I felt like a boomer. That's what that's tight for. Tubs under your arm. Literally. Okay, well without further ado, we've done what we always do. Please enjoy this interview with

our lovely friend Sof Butler. I'm so excited. Sof, you're here. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. I'm going to have introduced you before we even speak to you, so I'm just going to say that I'm really happy that you're here because you're my friend and you're a... Why did you laugh when I say that? I don't know how it just sounded funny. You're my friend.

You're my friends. Oh, friends. You are my friend. Not friends. Right, well, fuck you. We're not friends and I don't know who she is. We're just dragged her in off the street. I'm really excited that we've got soap here.

And it feels so well times because about a month and a half ago you moved to London and you've been living your best life my own new sadness and grievance is that we are recording this in our studio and not in your house Yes I mean you didn't ask

I would have invited you over if you wanted to come It's weird isn't it Can we come to your house? Or you can just come on non-professional matters Yeah It's not the only time we're going to see each other I might just extend an invitation for another meeting.

Thank you very much. Yeah, we're just going to come with a couple of pillows. I'm going to bring the dog. We're just going to come today. Watch the sunrise. It's so presumptuous to say you're living your best life,

but it kind of looks like you're living your best life. It feels like a real vibe. I feel like Taylor Swift would be proud. But it's so nice to see like just someone being so happy. Well, yeah, I mean, So it's just really great. Do you know what?

It's really nice to come on a podcast and be at a point in my life where I'm actually living my best life and where I am just literally vibing. Because normally every podcast I go on to and they're like, so tell me about your accident and tell me about this and tell me about for the last, like, God knows how ever many years. And now I'm like, no, do you know what? Now I'm going to come on and I'm going to talk about being very happy in London

and being very extravagantly dressed every day. But yeah, it has just been just a total vibe, is that really crindy to say. it has been a vibe for the last sort of month and a bit. And it all feels like it's not happened really quickly. It's something that I've been planning and working towards for years and years. But it felt literally like overnight when I moved in, something just kind of sort of changed and sort of shifted.

And it almost just feels like everything's just kind of, well, my whole life has like changed in like this month and a half and everything's just kind of sort of shifting into different places. Because you were in Essex before, right? Yes, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And like for context, you were living with your dad.

Yeah, so not too far away So I'm originally from Basilden And it's very, very, very different Very rural, very sort of small town, England It's not bad, but it's not what I wanted for my life I always knew I was going to end up in London I always wanted to be in London It's where I've always wanted to be

Yeah, with my dad and my stepmom And of course Daisy the Labrador Daisy the Labrador, yeah Missing her very much Oh, you I couldn't do it, I have done it It breaks my heart You can't FaceTime dogs

You can't text them He's got to trust that they know She does have a phone call or FaceTime though The second she hears my My voice on the phone She'll like spring up But yeah she I do need to go home and see her soon

But I kind of wouldn't want to be going home all the time But I think that would be good for the both of us Yeah Just like just not leaving So I love that So you knew you wanted to like Live in London one day And you've done it in start

because you have the most epic views across London. I just love your stories. It just makes me feel like so happy to see them. It must be nice to wake up to that. It is. You know what? I've not closed the curtains like once since I've been there. It's just like waking up to that view and then going to bed as well. I do this thing which is probably really corny now that I say out loud.

But when I used to live at home of my dad, we used to do this thing when we go to bed where we'd be really like exaggerately blow each other kisses before we went to bed like just very like like very over the top like just being really sarcastic but now when I'm at home

I do it to London I do it to the view and I just feel like it's like the end of Beyonce at a show love it I'm saying thank you so much London good night London you're the loudest crowd we've had on this tour

so far and then like just off to the bedroom love it yeah your like your word choice of vibe is so accurate like I do feel like that I just I find it hard to like balance the fact that we live in the same city and when I go to bed I'm just like crabby like shuffling with a cup of tea up to my bedroom in my like track seats and I imagine you just like blum and gives us to like to the

rooftops and then there's just people like me with our teas and bed being like no and I see you in like an incredible dressing gown you know those ones with like super long and like fur trim yeah I've got yes you know I've got this I've got an old tutorial note and what's the word, alternation. I alternate between about three of them. So like two satin ones, but I've got a nice fluffy one, which is very nice, because I've got a knife matching little night dress with it. Like, I feel like so much of your fashion and, like, your makeup as well, like, it's, it feels like a big part of, obviously it's identity, isn't it? But like, do you feel like you're growing into it or like finding, like, I always think with identity, because I don't know

if I have... No. I don't know. what I've Christ is on the body we just took a sad turn I mean like I don't know if I have like

I can't finish it I think like you mean like it's always this kind of question of a lot of people say like you're finding yourself I always more think of it as like creating yourself rather than finding yourself something that I have noticed

in like the last sort of few years is kind of returning more I feel like I'm returning a little bit more towards like my inner child and like things that like I liked as a kid or maybe you kind of get you know you get to a certain age and you get shamed out of it or you're embarrassed or whatever so for example like Doctor Who and all the geeky stuff that I'm like I love that as a kid and then when you get to a certain age of a teenager it gets a little bit embarrassing to like certain things or do certain things and I think when you get to about 25 and your prefrontal cortex it's finally fully finished up there and you get to kind of you're a bit more grown up you're also hopefully don't care what people think of you're you by this point and you can kind of also enjoy the things you enjoy now but also return back to those like almost like childlike things and almost kind of like healing that inner child and kind of really leaning into that um so i think a lot of that i think like my style when it comes

to style makeup and that i think because i grew up absolutely like adoring like madonna um or big pop icons Beyonce um prince bowie like and music is a big big part of like my identity um so i think like that are, when it comes to like style and fashion, I think, it doesn't know, it isn't interesting question as to whether you create yourself or whether do you, you know, do you find yourself? I think maybe it's a bit of both. I think you can kind of, you naturally are the person. We'll have our natural reactions to things and stuff.

But I always think like, especially when you're going somewhere new, you're going to a new situation. These people don't know you. You can be whoever you like in this situation. You can put on the character. You can put on the Nortariga. you can do whatever like no one knows and being honest no one probably cares either yeah it definitely like feels like a form of self-expression for you is that right yeah yeah i think um there's

there was always a question around makeup especially whether it's like covering up or whether it is like self-expression and i think that does lean into fashion as well um because you always think like are we doing it because we want to are we doing it because we feel we have to and i feel like maybe from like a younger age i would like wear makeup or do certain things because i felt like I had to and that's kind of the norm. You have to be presentable in a certain way, whereas I think I got to a certain age, particularly after my accident where I was just like, just doing things just that make me feel good. And I noticed that when, especially when I was, like, just after my injury and I couldn't really leave the house a lot, even if I wasn't leaving

a house or even if I was leaving just to go sandwiches with my dad or something, like getting to put on like an outfit that wasn't just joggers or whatever. Not like there's anything wrong with that but getting to actually wear an outfit and get dressed up made me feel good. Even if I was just doing it in the house and that's when I kind of sort of really saw that it was for me and that's something that makes me feel

good and not just doing it because like I want to impress anyone else so I do get told that I overdress a lot and I'm like what does it even mean to overdress? Yes and who? Like what is what is the standard of dressing? Who gives a fuck?

Who gives a fuck what you wear? Like if you have shown up today in jeans, Natasha, I wouldn't have looked twice. If you shut up staying in a big boorum dress, I wouldn't have looked twice. I wish I'd done that. No, I know. I should have been the day. Of all the days today, should have been the day. Because you're, I am obsessed with your outfits and makeup locks on Instagram because I feel like

they are both, like they go so well together and they make me want to experiment, but I am dull and boring. Why are we so sad? Oh my God. I have no identity. I have no identity. I'm boring. Also, I just want to say,

the record number I do not agree with these self-deprecating statements that are coming out because in just in case I'm sitting here like yeah but I see them and I'm like oh my god I'm I'm gonna do something cool with my makeup today and then I end up doing the same thing like over again I said this the other day we you and I were going out for dinner and I put on my Instagram and I did a cool story I know you did because you were the only person that replied saying don't because I put out a thing with a long blue eyeliner because I was trying to get down with the kids and I had my long blue eyeliner and I said on it so I was like someone to have me to take it off and I got two messages at the same time one from you Alex

saying, take it off immediately, and one from you, safe, going, do not take it off. And because I have no identity, I went for Alex. I was being literal, because you said, tell me to take it off. I was like, well, I'm just going to make a tag joke. And I was like, no, don't take it off. I know, I did take. And I did think, I was like, I've got a safe coming on.

I'm going to look all pretty. I'm going to do it. I'm going to wear, like, a cool dress. And then I looked at my order this morning, and I was like, yeah, and you've got, like, a cool graphic eyeliner today. And I feel like we need to paint the picture for everyone's just me. I think it's really hard to make it like a part of your daily routine, especially like if you're just going to,

obviously, because we're self-employed as well. We are a bit more like time privileged. But like if you're going to like a nine to five and you know, you're going to like an office, especially like an office setting when there is an expectation of how to dress and whatever, it can be really hard to think like to wake up one day and think, I'm going to try a graphic line or I'm going to wear something different.

There's something that I really like to do is something to just to, when I started playing around with like makeup, or clothes whatever is literally just doing it at home not going anywhere sometimes I do it really good and I'm like well I have to go to Starbucks now

someone's got to say this but like even it's just doing it at home because it doesn't matter if you fuck it up or if you're not happy with it or you feel a bit self-conscious it's not like you're then going on the world to stay each afterwards

it's just like you're just I think of it as a bit like colouring it's like you're just playing around at home and then if you like it you can go on out afterwards if not you can just take it off like you want it to the other day

like it's just I didn't want to I just had to Because how much pressure you Yeah, I was told to Yeah, like when it comes to like makeup or fashion Anything like that Like I've

After that I don't know what I'm doing I just do what makes me feel good Like And if you look at some of my makeup pictures From a few years ago It's very clear that I didn't know What I'm doing, I'm not a professional But it is just a case of

Was just a case for me anyway Playing around with it and having fun Even with like graphic liner Like this like the eyeliner that I do I've done that quite a lot now I literally just did that two minutes, just do it up whatever. First time I did it, I was like, I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm just going to get a pen, and I'm just going to do, just draw what makes me feel good.

And I've really loved doing graphic liner lately because you can literally just get a pen and just draw and just, you know, just see wherever it takes you. But I think like that is something that really puts people off doing certain things, especially when we're all so judgmental. And I'm going to say, even though I'd like to think that I'm not, I'm going to say we as a society are all judgmental to some extent. I think that puts people off doing certain things because I think like if I'm not I don't want people to think that I'm trying or that I think I'm too great I think there is that kind of like thought process

and it's like who cares if people think that like oh look at she thinks she's so good at makeup it probably means that you've done a good job like who gives a fuck like you know what I mean or like oh look people think I'm I think that's where the whole overdressing thing comes in I don't want people to think I'm trying too hard

who cares you have had a bit of that on your Instagram I think like well it kind of looks I don't know you can tell me obviously but you know someone sent your message a couple of data scabing like why do you overdress or like why do you whatever why are you always overdressed yeah but do you know I think like just for the like I think that is like the minority I think that is a very also that person didn't follow me from the account with no profile picture so cool bro

yeah I'll say that were a bit of salt but I think I think for the most part I get I've really since I've moved to London as well because I didn't really overdress that much when I lived back in house dead because I was seven employed, I didn't really, I've been self-employed for years, I didn't really need the house very much, so it literally was just literally in joggers and pyjamas, like most of the day, but since I moved to London, knowing that dressing up makes me feel

good, I'm like, oh well, I can leave the house every day now, and I can do this and whatever, and, you know, so that's when I, it's really started to think to come through on my Instagram, but it has been a thing for years, like, for, in my family at least, when we go out somewhere, that I will be overdressed, appropriately overdressed. It's just

the thing, like, if I show up to like a family function and I'm not the kim of the family so we say. But Nana will literally be like, what's wrong? You've like not made an effort and that's not because she thinks I look bad or anything like that is because I've not

done something that makes me feel good. So it's really funny to watch like people's like external reactions for like in my family. It's been a thing well it just is a thing in our family that that's who I am. Just very dramatic and over the top especially when it comes to fashion. But yeah,

I would say for the most part, since I've moved to London, I've had such a, like, I feel very, almost, like, cheered on. I think with Instagram, we do talk about trolling and stuff a lot. And rightly so, because it's something we need to talk about. But also, as well, I do just feel so, like, cheered on by, like, my little, like, community as well, like, is sometimes you'll be wearing, like, an outfit and whatever, and I won't think anything of it, I'll post it. And then it'll just, it's almost like, I just feel like I've got a little little gay people

in my phone who are just, like, yes, go on do it. And, like, you know, and something I, I really, it does make me. a little bit sad and something that but I do like I love hearing as well as some people like oh you know I've not got the confidence to dress like you but I would love to start experimenting in my style I'm going to start trying and something like that and that just makes me really happy because I just think like you know it's I think to when I wasn't that confident and like experimenting with your style when you're not very confident is like a daunting thing to do and I just think like I even if we're not very confident in ourselves it does take a lot to be happy

for someone else and to be cheering someone else on. I think that is a big thing to do. So I do, you know, always like love seeing that and love seeing people be very self-aware and kind of like, I'm not at that point now, but I'm really happy for you. And I want to, I want to kind of help myself get to that point. I'm wondering if like the,

because we all get it on social media, we all get the trolling and the negativity, does it ever get to you? Or do you feel like you're pretty impermeable to it now? Oh yeah, the full-on breakdown last year. Oh, you did. Like a full-on, like clinical, emotional breakdown. I mean, I think

because if you follow me, everyone knows about the situation, it's like a thing. But that was largely from the fitness community. And I think that's why, now that I've moved to London, I am leaning a lot more into fashion, not just in my content, but also within my personal life and what I associate myself with, because

I do feel so much more accepted or at least celebrated in fashion than I have ever done in fitness. And I think that's just because of what the fitness industry is built on, which is straight. white, able-bodied, buff people, which is not me as a queer disabled woman who is not,

even though I'm literally a 5-12, so I don't understand all the fat-phobic comments that I get. Not they'd be right even if I was fat, but I don't get them because it's like, if you think that I am like, do you know what I mean? Like, it just, it just, it, one thing that really opened up, when I started to, those comments I know it's really, really ramped up start a last year.

And the one thing that my friend, who aren't influencers who aren't in the fitness industry can understand is but like we look at you and we see like a fit person you know so I that's when it really made me realize of like how awful the industry must be the experience must be for women who actually are plus size

who actually are fat because I'm a size 12 I'm medium size I'm not ripped you know I'm probably I'm bigger than most of the fitness people that I've been associated with in the last few years but I can even imagine that my experience is nowhere near what they must experience as well yeah and in the grand scheme of things you're only like very marginally away from what the those fitness buffs like you know actually look like so yeah but it's it's crazy that I always thought that I was and

I've always always always been a very fixed in person that always have been um but even like last year like it got to a point where the comments were so it was happening what's happening all the time it was happening so much exclusively in the fitness industry um and but also the volume at which they were happening. Like, it could be one post, and it wouldn't be on my account. It would normally be on an account that I was reposted on. And then all the people that committed on those ones, like hating on those ones, would then follow me to my account

and then start commenting on my post, DMing me. And then, like, almost, it felt like a hunt, almost. And it was just like, it got to a point where I thought, I'm a really, really strong person. Imagine if you didn't have my, like, I don't know what the word is, thick skin. If you didn't have that, I couldn't imagine what it would be like because it broke me to a point where I am only recently getting back into fitness and getting back into the industry and I'm only starting thinking about doing fitness content again. So I couldn't

imagine what it must be like if you were a little bit less thicker skinned, I guess. Why do you think those people were doing that? I don't know. I think there is a part of me that things do you just hate me and do you just hate what I look like or do you hate the fact that I don't hate myself which sounds much more likely yeah yeah because I think they I think a lot of the people who do these things and say those things on social media I think a lot of them are very very insecure um I think you've got to be because now that I think about how happy I am in my life I can let the way that I always think of it right is Beyonce and Taylor Swift are not spending their days trolling people on social media there are two people that I absolutely love and absolutely

respect and they're not spending their time doing shit like that so anyone who is really happy and content in their life doesn't spend their time that way and I think to spend your life hunting someone and trolling someone just absolutely unnecessarily on social media you've got to be unhappy in your life I don't think there's any other explanation for it and the thing is they don't know enough about you to hate you they literally see a picture on a page and then go to your like they don't know enough to hate you so it has to be they're projecting it's just they're projecting But they don't realize they're projecting. They hate that I think that they probably, you know, for example,

someone's made the comment about my body or, you know, or my disability or whatever it is, they're probably very insecure in their own body, see someone who doesn't fit the norm that they feel so pressured to fit and then thinking, well, why are you happy? You don't look like the way that I think I should look like, but why are you happy with it? Why are you not bothered by it?

I'm going to make you bothered by it. And I think a lot of the time they don't even realize that that's, the projection that's going on behind it. But I think that's what it is. I think it's less of the case of them hating me or anyone who could be me and more hating the fact that we don't hate ourselves. I think that's what it is.

And thinking, well, she's got a big social media following. She'll be fine. Oh, and all the times, sometimes when I reply, not all the time, but sometimes you do, I don't think you'd say this. Yeah. So what, you just thought this was your diary entry? Literally. Like, I mean, I've spoken to you about it

like as a friend, but then, you know, like we've also seen it online. And last year was, it doesn't, I can't ration, you know, you, you sound so, like, I don't want to say, like mature, but you're so rational speaking about it there and you're like, oh, well, this is probably why,

and this is probably why. But I don't know if it's just because, like, I adore and admire you and I want to protect you, but it was like, when they fuck it, I'm like, what the fuck are you doing? Like, what the fuck are you doing? It's, it's, you know, it's good of you to rationalise it. And yes, these people are probably sad,

but also mostly I'm just like there's something fundamentally really sinister here. Yeah. Because you didn't do anything. You have been such an important voice in the fitness space and for such a long time. And, you know, what you're sharing as well as being like just super practical, it's also amazing to see and it's empowering and exciting. And it's cool to see you living your life and you should be able to do it wherever. And the fact that you were pushed out really,

is sinister. Yeah. I think there is an element of it, though, and I think I learnt this very, very quickly, not just from my experiences, but also watching other women in media and everything, so on and so forth. There's only, as a woman,

especially as a queer disabled woman, there's only so much grace we're allowed to have without humanity. There's only so much reaction we're allowed to have, because I learned very quickly, when I did react in a human way and not a rationalised womanly way

I was very quickly rude very quickly well you know if you can't handle this job you know you need to leave very quickly made to feel like or shown that you're not allowed to have a reaction

there is a there's a Taylor Swift quote which she says a man is allowed to react a woman is only allowed to overreact and it's so so true because there'd be times where a lot of the time and you'll see from my stories where I've been like showing it and throwing a very rationalised response

people are like, I don't understand how you could be so rational you're far too kind to these people but when I have been human and when I have just been like who the fuck are you fuck off I am instantly told you're rude you're this, you're that, you're whatever not you're a human having a reaction

to someone who has done an abhorrent thing there's very very quickly learned that you're only allowed so much reaction as a woman which is disgusting we talked about this a couple of weeks ago didn't we when it was about how often and and we were talking about it in the context of men and women but often when it comes to the discussion of feminism and stuff it's so common for it to be the the victims job to hold the hand and and that being a bigger person yeah yeah I'm gonna educate you and I'm

I'm going to empathise with you and we'll work out why you're feeling like this and we'll work on it together and it's like oh fuck off like this isn't my shit why have I got to carry your shit but you have done a I mean you did carry a lot of shit

to keep existing within the fitness space you had to it was like a fight for you and that's so it was so unfair it went on I mean it was all of last year pretty much and yeah it was hard and I carried I carried all of that on my own C I think like you know we spoke about it a lot and whatever

but I think it really got to a point where I think people were kind of very numb to it and I was almost very numb to it until I'd realized that like I was like severely depressed and like had a breakdown but didn't put two and two together because I just become so accustomed to like well this is what you experience in this space as this person and not you shouldn't be experiencing this you can remove yourself from a situation until you know they deserve your presence you know and I think like that's something that like I did a lot of last year is whenever anything would happen or whatever I would not only think about how I wouldn't think about how it affected me I would always

give myself five minutes to cry and then brush it off but that's how I would deal with it and then instantly my first thought process would be I don't want another young disabled woman to see this and then feel like she didn't belong so whenever anything would happen I would then try and come back 10 times harder showing up more in the fitness space and trying to do more more for the disabled community and I was trying to look out for everyone else and then no one in return was looking out for me but it just goes to show you a lot that I almost tried to put myself as like in in the spotlight more and then be like no it's okay it's a safe space and trying to make it a safe space when I was really not in a safe space like whatsoever

I think that's why it's so amazing to see you so happy now because you were so affected last year so it's like like a little butterfly emerging, but it is bullshit, like it is bullshit and it's great even just to see you back in the gym, also sick gym in your new place but like, it's really like... That's what we'll do, you'll come over and we'll get the gym.

Oh, I don't know. Honestly, I do. Yeah, come on now. Yeah, no, it's like, it's so nice again just to see those mirror selfies on your story and like your iconic poses. Yeah. But that's kind of what I had to really,

lean back into like when I when I knew it was going into the new year and I knew I was going to be moving in the new year was really leaning into what makes me happy what do I want to do and I knew fitness was fitness used to be a very safe place for me, it used to be what made me happy but I knew it wasn't anymore

so I had to remove myself from certain equations so I could make it to safe space again and kind of do things for me that felt right so I knew that like right okay so I do want to go back to fitness content but I knew I couldn't do it straight away I'm like let just give yourself a month just enjoying the gym and then I can reassess with myself and see where I am so that's something

that I like had to do but I had to really think about what do you enjoy it why do you enjoy it what makes you feel good and like for the gym for example it was like getting ready for the gym putting on I always get ready to a live Beyonce performance that's what I do it has to be a live performance I want to just like be in your head that's a very important you know part it's normally her 2016 VMA performance if anyone needs any info but like it was stuff like that that made me feel good and I thought that's the stuff that I'd kind of like lost that I you know there was so much negativity and nonsense going on I thought I need to turn my back on that and I need to lean into that other stuff that makes me feel good whether it's something

as cheesy as listening to it like Beyonce four months while getting ready to the gym and you know like and doing things like that that they just make me feel good that's that's really what I needed to do for myself this year and I think I can I can imagine that sort of reasoning, not reasoning, but like trying to understand why people do what they did to you probably leads to a pace of feeling like, I just feel sorry for them, like that's really sad. And that's probably a much better place to be in than anger. And yeah. Yeah. I think something my dad always taught me when I was growing up was there's always a reason that people behave the way that they do. I mean, he taught me that for really, really the young age. It's probably one of the reasons

I went on through psychology because I've always wanted to understand the way people behave why, you know, the way that they do. Context I did psychology at uni. But yeah, I mean, because I grew up with, I don't have a relationship with my mom. I grew up in abusive mom. I think for a very young age, I've always tried to rationalise why people behave the way they do. But I think something that I've only very recently learned is, yes, what my dad said is true.

There is a reason why people behave the way that they do. But the part that I've recently learned is it's not my responsibility to one work it out. or to cure them and make them better. It's not my responsibility. I don't have to do that. And I'm probably going to hurt myself more in the process of doing that. So you can have the power of knowing that there is a reason why everyone behaves or that they do and that it's probably not to do with you.

And you can, you know, you can rationalise it in that sense. But also, then you can cut yourself off from that point. You know, you can look at a situation and go, well, that you can rationalise it either way that way. whatever, but also it's not my responsibility to solve that situation. And hopefully in a few months time, a few weeks, a few years time, whatever it is, that person will take on the responsibility for themselves. And I think that is something that I've really learned is I, the only person I have responsibility for in my life is me. No one else is my responsibility.

If you don't follow safe, then you're an idiot. But also, you're a fool and no one can help you. but you do to on Sunday you do Sunday school which is great and it's I learn loads from you and so many people do but it's like

it's something that you've done I guess you know you said before that you show up in the fitness space and every time you would stand up and brush yourself off and you would do it for other disabled women

so that you know you could be you could show them like you know what that it's okay and you have put yourself in a role that's meant you've had to educate really and like hold the hand of

and rationally. So you've had to rationalise the trolls' behaviour. You've had to keep showing up even though it hurts you because you want to be there for the people. And then at the same time, you've done your Instagram stuff where you are educating people about what, I mean, it's a range of things,

but predominantly about disability. And I think it's really nice to see you it does feel like you're putting you first and it's really cool to see I think like you've you've had to put everybody else it feels like you've put everybody else first for a really long time which I think is probably why it's so exciting now just to watch you fucking thriving like and it's not that you've stopped you know and it's not that you've stopped being empowering and inspiring and it's not that you stop being a role model to other disabled women and it's not that you are not doing Sunday still at school because you're still doing it but it does feel I can see following you and being a friend of yours that you there's been a shift and you're first and it's like you've described it it's like unapologetic joy and it's just like it's stunning i just love it like i don't know i just feel like there's just an aura of like this is me i choose me then it's just really nice to see i think that's really helped i think like with in terms of choosing myself in terms of like the education side of things because i think one thing that always gets put on marginalised people um in whatever

where you're marginal, it doesn't have to be just disability, but it's always to be a bigger person, educate us, people always screaming, they'll say like the most abhorrent thing you've ever heard in your life and then they'll be like, educate me. And they're like, no, fuck off. But I think that's what I really have to learn is that like, I can create spaces of education and moments of education, but my existence doesn't have to be a fucking education piece. I am allowed to just live my life and be a human who is also a disabled woman. I'm proud to be a disabled woman and I create spaces of education like the Sunday school and half the time I am happy to talk about a lot of things and you know and if people learn from it

great whatever they don't they don't it's not my problem but just learning that like if I if someone asked me something I can then turn around and be like actually I don't feel comfortable talking about that or actually I don't want to talk about that and like my whole life doesn't have to be jumping up the second someone wants to learn how to finally be a better human being yeah which has been really hard to do because, as I said, like always, it's always marginalised people being told, be the better person or educate them. You know, you'll make the world a better play for why does it have to be on us? Educate yourself. Yeah. Educate yourself and it's like, I think it is just so nice now knowing that like I'm allowed to be just a human being and just

like have fun and I was literally saying, because for context, we're all London, the same management. So I was saying to my own day the other day, literally here, I was saying to the other day like do you know what i think i've done so many so much of my career has been talking about my accident and talking about all of the negative things i've been through and being an inspiration and all of that stuff um but something that i really want to do this year is just be me and just have fun and just live my life i'm like because the majority of the people in this industry are allowed to do that so why shouldn't i be allowed to do that if i'm going to continue to show up do i just have to be a fucking educator or do i have to be going through pain

do I have to be a lesson? Do I have to be an inspiration? Why can't I just be me, you know, in whatever way I choose to show up? Because so many, you know, people in this industry are allowed to show up in that way. So I'm deciding that, you know, from this year, I am also going to be showing up in that way. I love it. I love it. And control your own narrative.

Like, yeah. I'm not just going to, you know, talk about my accident or like, you know, just be there to educate people. I love that. Yeah. Because I have so many other things to offer And it's like Of course, you're a whole person Yeah, you're like a whole human being

But sometimes it's really hard to get people To see you as a whole human being Because they look at you and they see you as an Instagram infographic Or they see you as a textbook And it's like, I'm not a HR resource You know, I am a human being Like who has interests and dislikes and you know But you've also like in the same way that everybody

You know, I think we're at a really interesting stage Because it's our careers But it's also our life to like document everything online or document a lot online and you're right like it wouldn't happen to other creators but like you've shared your experience

you actually you shared about your accident on your YouTube everything is available for people if they want to investigate your life but it's not hard to find

no but people come to you every day and they're like hello tell me every actually more specifically tell me the biggest trauma of your life please and tell me in detail

do they yeah it's honestly and not just even online as well I've really noticed this so after so because before my injury I was working in retail just before my injury and then I had a year off sick when I had my injury and I went back to working in retail.

And I was working in retail way up until early 2020. So by that point, I'd already done a lot of the big things have done in my career. You know, I'd won cosmopolitan health and well-being influenced of the year. That's the most iconic photo of you. That's my favourite pink suit when you just won it. Oh, that's a little award.

Such a vibe. But like that whole time I was working in retail a lot of that time. So I didn't want to give up that retail job because that for me was almost like it was a bit of normality and it was a bit of like security blanket. Well, first of all, I didn't know whether I could do this. I didn't know whether I wanted to do this. But I thought, you know, I can kind of play the two for now. At least I have like this retail job, which is like, you know, just it's a normal job. And I think a lot of peak creators do that when I're starting out.

but I was doing some really big things whilst also still like maintaining this really like normal retail job which is really interesting to look back on but I was also having more everyday experiences which I probably don't now with people on the shop floor and seeing how they reacted and responded to my injury and it was sometimes if not just as bad sometimes worse than the interactions you have online

because you don't expect people to be like that in person but you would get people I would just be trying to help people out on the shop floor and then get people like what happened to you then? was it car crash was it this look at that did you get insurance and you know you're looking at these people thinking who the fuck are you literally right

and that probably has helped me to be a bit more calm and rationalised when you get people online be like that because when it's your job you can't just turn around about fuck off you're working you're working in the supermarket you can't do that either way whether you're in the right or wrong which I think you should be able to but

management doesn't know so but there's a certain way you had to you had to react um but also as well a lot of the time even if i wanted to react i couldn't because i was so stunned and having a lot of that there'd be times where like i would i'd have to take toilet breaks or breaks throughout my shift because people would just bring me to tears like i even like i did it post the other day about people moving people's wheelchairs and stuff like that with you in them so i remember that this one time i was in in this guy's way even that's a polite way of saying it i was this guy wanted to get past me at like the self-service and instead of asking me oh excuse me would you mind

he literally just moved my chair like picked it up by the handles and moved it and i really i feel like i was so stunned like generally so shocked and like things like people would do things people would say and like i wanted that to a woman's buggy sorry with a baby oh it would be up for it would be unbelievable they would just be yeah like he'd be arrested if i just pushed you out of the way because you were in my way. Yeah, just ran me over. And your response was, oh, but you were in my way. Yeah.

Sorry. Do you not know how to say, please, excuse me? What would you do if you saw someone in the car park when he just hit them with his car? Oh, sorry, you were in my way. Terrifying. It was like interactions like that, which I think, like, having them so soon after my injury kind of really showed me,

like, the way people behave and the way people are around disability. I think, like, I think back on it, and I thought back on it, now that I don't have like a job like that anymore. But I think my experiences in that job really kind of may be more passionate in terms of like the way that like just not tolerating bullshit because in a short space of time I had to tolerate so much of it on like a daily basis.

Do you still experience it now sort of when you're out thriving in London or is it much less so now? I would say less so now. I think maybe being in the position of being in a retail worker because people do just treat retail workers like shit. yeah um you know i was i worked in retail and i was able body and well and i got treated like shit but just in different ways but so i think maybe being the position of working in retail maybe made people a little bit more less likely to treat me like a human um but it does still

happen um maybe just not as much and i think with being self-employed and just the places that i go maybe i'm just not as i can kind of remove myself in situation as quite easy whereas when i was working in that supermarket i had to stay there that whole day. I have to experience these things. Whereas now, there's like that Kim Kretail quote where she's like, I don't want to be anywhere for even an hour where I'm not enjoying myself. Yeah. I love that. That's me. If I don't like a situation and if it's not a vibe, I will remove myself from the situation, whether it's online or it's in person, which is a privilege to be able to do, but also, I think if I've got this point, like if I'm in this situation and it's

not good for me, I'm going to remove myself from it. But yeah, it definitely, it definitely does happen. Yeah. I remember this is like a massive gear change, but I'm just, when you, moved to London and I and I remember you getting a comment saying that but you were showing off about your flat because you know you were showing that it had been like modified to make to be accessible and how great everyone had been I remember somebody commenting to you and saying like well this is unfair because you know like disability welfare benefits you know there's a lot of people with disability struggling in the country and here you are like flouting it and I remember you being like well yeah but like so just every other person in this industry yeah but also yeah you wouldn't

say it to like, I don't know if, like some, I don't know, like, I can't think of an example. If Ed Shearren was doing a house tour and someone's going to comment being like, actually, Ed, this is really bad that you're showing off this amazing house that you've got. The thing that that kind of got me about that comment, because if I, if I'd have got on Instagram and I was like, look at my amazing new flat and all the things that I have and, you know, and I was going, and I was kind of basically being like, we all had the same 24 hours. Why can't you all just do what I do? If I was giving it that attitude and I was giving it,

look how easy it is to be disabled these days, then I'd understand because, don't get me wrong, that's a dick move. I would never do that. I would never be like that. It wasn't even that rule that you're talking about, the video, wasn't even tips of how to make your house more accessible. It wasn't that. It was literally about me.

It's about me and my situation and me showing how my flat works for me, which is a shower, a shower bench. It's not even the most like extravagant things in the world, but it's just having a roll and shower. Like that was, you know, having lower rails in your cupboard in, like, in my wardrobe. But at the end of the day, like, with that particular comment that you're talking about, I didn't even blame the girl. I mean, I had interactions in the DMs of that girl,

and it got a bit heated so I removed myself in the situation because it was just getting too personal and a bit nasty. But I didn't even blame her with the angle that she was coming at because there are a lot of people, a lot of disabled people in this country living in poverty and living in horrible situations. And I know that I'm in a privileged situation, a hugely privileged situation. I was looking for a flat for an apartment for ages and I couldn't find anything because there was nothing accessible for me. So I had to start looking at luxury apartments and safer, longer, and move out later, which is not a luxury that everyone has.

I totally know that. So that's why I would never hop on a podcast and I would never hop on any social media platform. and then be like, this is how to move out if you're disabled and start preaching to choirs who don't have the same luxuries or the same things that I do to make those things happen. And I think that's a difference. But with that particular comment, I absolutely understand where she was coming from

because a lot of people, a lot of disabled people in this country aren't living with the benefits that I'm living in. And, you know, I know that when I first came out of hospital, was living in my parents conservatory it was winter i didn't have heating didn't have shower i couldn't leave my house because we had a massive step we had to get all of like these things done and whatever and i was living in that situation for about eight months um and you know and even that was fairly comfortable compared to what most people are living in longer term um so i i can i see where that comment was coming from um i don't take it personally because i know that i'm

comfortable with how i handled like my situation that i'm not boasting personally but again at the same time it's rationalising it it's knowing and it's understanding why person someone is making that common yeah because you're saying yeah I mean you're saying you understand

and you see where she's coming from but at the end of the day you can show whatever you want you can show your life you can show the good bits the bad bits the in between it's your platform and you can do whatever you want and it's so true there are people there are thousands if not millions of people like flaunting whatever they have

on Instagram so yeah I think it is just the cases I think there were maybe some people that were upset that I wasn't like relatable anymore which I don't want to spend my life being relatable it's never been something I've wanted to do that's you know what the fuck

nothing relatable about Beyonce is there no but that's why a lot of people hate her but they think you know she's stuck up she's this she's arrogant whatever no she minds her own business and she hangs out of her family that's what Beyonce does a lot of the time let's be honest we don't actually know a lot about her other than the fact that she puts on a fucking good show

but what's what we know about be but a lot of people don't like Beyonce for example because she's not relatable I think we see it with a lot of women in media I think a lot of women I think Jennifer Lawrence is a fantastic example of a woman who has tripped herself up trying to maybe be too relatable

because I think it worked at first for her and then there's only so long especially as a multi-millionaire that you can keep that up and I'm not saying I think she was fake and whatever I think maybe she was just exaggerating parts of herself which were authentic and trying to make them more

relatable. And I think she's a fantastic example of someone who, do you remember back in that 2014 where I was like, oh my God, Jennifer Lawrence eats pizza, we love her, she's so relatable. And then almost seemingly overnight, we hate Jennifer Lawrence. Yeah, she's tripped up and she did it

on purpose. Yeah, she's this, she's at or whatever. And it's like, I think she's a really good example of how like, well, why do we have, why do people have to be relatable to us? Yeah. Why? Yeah, you don't owe anyone relatability. But I think that's what we were talking about before.

Like, people feel there's so much like ownership, I guess, of people online in general. But I think probably because you have given so much of your brain to us and, like, educated, and then people do just start to take the piss. And something that comes up on your page all the time is whenever you say that you're disabled and someone always in the comments goes, no, you're differently able. Oh, my God, don't. Oh, like that. whole right so just i'm gonna sum it up for the podcast really quickly now differently abled

i can't i don't think i could explain you how much i fucking hate that word and the reason why i fucking hate it so much is because it's only ever non-disabled people telling me to say the fucking word right if another disabled person that turned around to me and said i actually like that term for myself i'd say bravo babes you do you i'll call you that if you want to be called that i don't give a fuck but it's only ever non-disabled people telling us that we should be we should say differently abled and not disabled and it will be in a post where I'm talking about you know I'm here I'm disabled I'm proud of that and then there'll be just someone in the comments normally who doesn't follow me oh it'd be

so much better if you could say differently abled actually they prefer differently abled well actually no you're talking to they who's they and I'm telling you that it's a no if if one if a specific disabled person has told you actually I've heard differently abled yes go head call them differently enabled. But that's, I think that's another problem is you can't expect one person to represent a whole group of people because it's not fair on the person and it's not fair on the group of people, whether they're succeeding or whether they're failing or whether they trip up or they make a mistake because, well, marginalised people are still human. You can't expect me to represent all disabled people. I think that's something that I've had

to really learn myself because I would always be like, I can't make any mistakes because I represent disabled people in a really privileged position and, you know, I have to all. always be perfect. You can't make a mistake because it makes disabled people look bad. That's not fair on me and it's not fair on disabled people because there's so many of us we're all different. To say that I just, I want to just, you don't need to answer this, I'm just going to put like a disclaimer out.

You say a lot that you're very privileged and you are, but I, I can't, for the avoidance of doubt, we have to say, like you work so fucking hard and you have done since as long as I followed you and obviously long before. You, yeah, I mean, there's no question, but it's just a, it's just a sentence that, yes, like, in lots of ways you are very lucky, but you have also had to contend with so much fucking shit and the least you deserve is like your shower rail and your stunning view. You know what I mean? Like, because you have done and continue to do so much, like, I mean, great work in the sense that you can afford where you live, but also great work in the sense that you are educated. and, sorry, but inspiring. I feel so bad saying it.

But it's true. I mean, like, I don't know. I just think you're a joy to follow. It was very cool. Very fucking cool. Yeah. But you know what? That's weird because I never grew up cool.

I was never cool. Never cool at school, never cool at college. I think maybe when I became cool, if I am cool, was maybe probably when I stopped caring about being cool. It's when I got to uni, when I met people who I instantly, clip with, you know, my Dan, Lana, my best friends that I met at uni, who I'm best friends with now, they kind of taught me that, like, it just be you, it doesn't give a fuck of your call, whether you or not, whatever, because I'd never been cool. I mean, I grew up in Basildon,

and as you say, like, I'm very, very privileged now, you know, where I live, where I live, and the industry that I'm in, but I've, I'm not someone who was born into that. Absolutely not. I grew up in Basildon, we didn't have, you know, very, very much. But I think that's now, while I'm very aware of it because I I there is we know we talk about a lot about privilege and stuff now but I do think about where I was earlier in my life and how different my life could be if I didn't you know happen to end up in this industry my life would be very very different so that's why I'm just very aware of my privilege but also because I know a lot of young disabled women in particular do look up to me

and I wouldn't want you like you know just to I just wouldn't want to be completely tone deaf to the experience that so many other disabled people are happening because I know my experience at this point that I'm in my life at my life now isn't representative and it's not relatable for a lot of disabled people it doesn't diminish my experience it doesn't mean that I shouldn't enjoy it but also being aware that it's not it's not going to represent the many I was going to say this before but like if people are only following you because you're relatable to them or like they make you feel like better or whatever then they're not really following you for you are they yeah that i just i don't know they're following you for what you can do for them

in terms of like make them feel but they're not actually following you for you so i think it's yeah it's almost kind of good when those people show themselves a little bit i do i find the whole relatability thing just so interesting because i think about people who i look up to and people who i follow and people who i really love and respect but i don't respect them i don't follow them or take an interest in them and their art or their music, whatever it is, because they're relatable. The people that I love are not relatable. Beyonce's life is nothing like my life.

Taylor's life is nothing like my life. But I love them. I love what they represent and I love the work they put out. But I think maybe it's a problem more specifically. We feel it as influences because people do have more access to us. And they do. Maybe people do expect

us to be just more relatable because of that access. I don't know. And I think they also feel like they've supported you so you it's the kind of transactional thing so like look I've been I was there for bad times and I remember last year when you was crying loads and I sent me that nice DM and now look what you've done you've made me feel shit and where are you you're not where's my nice DM? But I think that's something that like I've really learnt as well as because I do as you know I share I share a lot on social media this particularly as being very open and very honest in terms of things to do with disability and whatever but people don't actually know a lot about me personally in my personal life I think a lot of people think they do, but I'll never talk about what's going on in my relationships, my dating, I'll never put that online, because that's private for me. But I think there are, I think majority I would say actually probably, even influencers online do share almost every part of their life. But that's something that I learned very on is like, no, there needs to be something that is just for me.

Because I think, second, you put something online and you put it out for other people's eyes not only is it there for everyone to judge whether you know they're meaning to or not but also as well you're going to have so many opinions naturally to shouting back at you and you have to have something for yourself you have to have a life for yourself something I love about Beyonce which we spoke about Beyonce so much which is so typical but we don't know anything about Beyonce unless she wants us to and that's one of the things that I love about her is people will say whatever they like about her all she does is she'll show up to award shows she'll show up here and there to a party

she minds her business she makes great music and she spends time with her kids and her family like we don't know anything about her unless she wants us to and then we see some celebrities where you know you just think like oh just maybe um don't tweet that or maybe just like

you know keep that to yourself not just because like they're saying something wrong but I'm just like that's so personal and I just think like it is getting more and more blurred that line between what is public and what is personal. I mean, our jobs are so, yeah. I was going to say, talking to the wrong people here.

Yeah. I don't think I hold any, anything back. I feel, I've said this to you quite a lot. I feel like I hold quite a lot back, but then I can't work out quite what, but there is definitely stuff, but I don't know. Yeah, maybe, I don't know. I feel like I hide quite a lot, but then, like, no one knows I have a brother. Like, I sometimes slip him in.

Everyone's like, to people that's me, though, yeah. You've got a brother. Yeah. Someone, like, put the face of my brother up the other day on Instagram and someone replied So your brother looks like Gary Barlow. I feel it was like, oh, for fuck sake. But then like that is another reason why I don't show a lot of like my friends or like my family on social media, you know, like it's one thing to put yourself in that spotlight and to put yourself in a, because every time you put yourself online, you put yourself in a potential firing line in our positions, right? As dramatic as that sounds as true.

But it's another thing to then put someone you care about in there. And I remember when I started to grow my social media, I started to really sort of. or rail back how much of my friends I was showing and I think they're a little bit like you're not posting us anymore, you're not posting picture of us and you're posting more of your influence of friends. I had to explain like that's not because I'm ashamed of you, I don't want to post you, I'll post you

on my private account, yeah. I just need more famous friends, but I can't. I can't show you any more, Lana. It's not different around. No, it's because like they're normal people with normal lives who aren't used to having opinions thrown up them every day about themselves and I don't want to put them in that

position. Yeah, most my friends won't go anywhere in my social media. Oh god, yeah. Like literally nowhere. We were out for dinner with one of the day and I had to keep saying to like, because we were out with loads of, like, we were out with people who did Instagram. I was like, she doesn't go on social media. And then I went from what Georgia yesterday. She was like, I don't know. She just doesn't. What a weirdo. What's next for you? What's next for me? Big question. Sorry. Beamaze. I'm the Maze. Just whenever Beyonce is forward, I'm there, just, well, you got this girl? No, my next plan is. I thought about this a lot because I'm very much the person. I'm very much

the person a person who is like I always want to know where I'm going I always want to have a plan I want to have a clear route going into this year I knew it was going to be moving to London but also I was leaving certain situations and I was trying new things and you know doing doing new things and leaving old things and

I just kind of had a moment where I was like I don't I don't fucking know what the next year is going to look like I have no fucking idea I don't know whether it's going to be good and bad I'm taking so I'm taking risk it which is not comfortable for me but also it was so exciting at the same time just to be like, I don't have a plan. I don't have a plan. I have security measures in place

for my life. But also, I don't really know what this time next year where I, where I'm going to be. And that's such like a refreshing feeling. I know what we're going to have done. Your next plan, your like immediate plans. Tatsi. Go and get a tattoo with me and then go and eat vegan mac and cheese with me. And then chill at yours. Yes. And can you do my makeup? Yes. Maybe that's what we all day. Or it's just like fun on me. Yeah. Yeah. I think like next time I see Alex She's going to be in like some like A bucket hat

Have you ever seen me wear I do have bucket hat I've seen you in a bucket hat Yeah I can see in your bucket hat And this is a real compliment But there's not one item of clothing I can imagine that I couldn't see on you But I think that's because I wear it with confidence

Even if maybe I don't feel that confident One thing I always say is You need to be wearing the clothes Don't let the clothes wear you Love her This jumper is wearing me I know it I know it

Like I am not wearing this jumper I am being worn by this jumper It's because you've got no identity Like I think we're going to develop identities Alex Do you think that's what we're going to do Is this like a turning point for us It's like a pivotal moment

We can bookmark this from next year And be like this is where we learn our identity Oh my God yeah Yeah can you come back on this date next year Yeah And watch me and Alex be worn by more jumpers I'm going to sit here you're going to be sitting there in like

a fucking ball gown I'll be there in a bucket hat I'll be in a bucket hat and a ball gown oh yeah I've just got it just atop your bed yeah it's a huge bucket hat and this incredible ball gal

like stretches out to the door if you wear it confidently enough like because I'm not being funny we look at some of the fashion looks these days and if it wasn't well and we confidence what would it be Yeah. But there's that saying that it's like,

it's ugly until Rihanna decides it isn't. And do you know what? Everyone loves Rihanna because she's fucking Rihanna. And when she wears something, she wears it, it doesn't wear her. It's like, if you put it on someone who really wasn't feeling themselves

and didn't really feel great in that outfit, we probably would look at the outfit and be like, oh, you know, but you wear it with confidence and you... I feel it. I do. I want to go into Westfield right now

and go and buy something green and just wear it. Well, thank you so, so, so much for talking with us today. Yeah, thank you for having me. Yeah. We'll see you this date next year. This day next year.

You can choose the outfits. I can't wait. Oh, yes. Oh my God. Okay, welcome back. I hope you enjoyed the interview. I can't hang about though because I have just received a DM

and it's just me DM that Amy has forwarded me and then actually I'm just going to go. Hi. Hi guys. Hit your loving your holiday. I'm wanky bit.

Love the podcast. It seemed to be constantly made to feel like a man-hater because I'm a feminist. So you amazing girls make me feel normal and never fail to make me laugh out loud. Thanks, babes. Then she says,

I haven't. Is it just me? Is it just me? Or does anybody else find that following semen has a laxative effect on them? Like, literally. pissing out of my

ass. I hope I'm not oversharing, but I don't know who else to ask. Oh my... Maybe she's semen intolerant. God. Wait, hang on, I've got Google this. Like celiacs, but semeniacs. Seamonax.

It's a thing. It's a thing. It's not just you. Okay, okay. So prostaglandins are substances made by the body and that the body is sensitive to. semen contains prostaglandins and prostaglandins can have a laxative effect on people yes semen can cause a powerful laxative effect oh it's a thing powerful laxative

oh my god who knew i didn't know that i've never heard that you see diet culture had me sewed by the nipples when i was younger i remember somebody telling me once that semen had the same amount of calories as a ham sandwich oh my god A hams, never, ham sandwich. I'm googling that too. How many calories does seem enough? Ham sandwich. I'm like what a toastie?

Ham and cheese, is it two sides? Oh, this is, this is making me feel really sick, but it's got between five and 25 calories per teaspoon. Something about the teaspoon, I don't like. Well, that's no fucking ham sandwich. I was like to. By the teaspoon Oh, teaspoon

By the teaspoon Oh my, who knew that? Honestly, my sister has such like an eclectic vocabulary When it comes to diarrhea When you said it was like piercing out of my ass Cartier always calls it beef stew No, beef soup, beef soup

Like shitting out beef soup I'm like Grim Grim, grim Yeah, gribly I'm actually That's so strong I want to know how immediate it is

Is it like Don't don't You know what I mean? Yeah, can we have more details? Or have you got a couple of minutes? Do you get a few hours before it starts? Yeah, I want to know. I want to know more.

I also want to know, like, how you came to the connection. Do you know what I mean? Like, because how many times does it have to happen before you're like, hang on a second? There's a pattern. I worked in a bar once in South Africa on Valentine's Day, and every single man literally ordered Pinacoladas that day. And I was like, why are so many men ordering Pinacoladas?

And then the guy was like, happens every year because apparently pineapple makes you spunk taste juicy or some shit. Yeah. It's like, are you sad little men? Look at you with your funny little cocktails. Really little umbrellas in them. Is that true? I think so.

I think so. Oh my God. My search history, hang on. I say I think so with absolutely no authority only that I think that one shift and a lot of men spent a lot of money on peanut galadas. Oh my God, false. While many people might recommend gulping down a few glasses of pie. pineapple juice for sweeter sperm. That juice probably does nothing at all. Oh, well, should

have told that they were wasting like 15 box ago. There you go. Well, no, not just you. What have you offered me out? It's not just you. It's not just you. Who knew it? Lacks of fact. Right, I've got it. Is it just me who still can't tell your voices apart? I've listened to nearly every episode now and I'm still finding myself thinking, right, that's Em. No, wait, that's Em. Is that Alex? So please, can you do an intro to the podcast? saying hi and my name is because I'm losing the will to live over here by the way I'm obsessed with the podcast and I can't believe I'm having to ask this well it's a bit late but Alex read that out and it's me M talking now I tell you what we need to get your mum in the episode because

whenever you talk to your mum you end up with your like more scowse accent and you sound completely different and then whenever you come on here I do I do grant people that you do sound a little bit more like me do I look yeah I know some massive change in your accent talk to your parents and your sisters. In my head, I'm so northern. And then, in my head, our voices must be so different because then, yeah, but I'm just, I'm one of these people, I'm a sheep, you know, like, I'm just, I, and I adapt to whoever I'm with, that it's rubbish.

I've got no authenticity. Should I start putting on an Australian accent? Would that be good for the group? Yeah, I think so. We'll lose a few people, but, um, we'll probably offend a lot, but it'll be all right. So, hi, my name is Alex. Hello, I'm M. There you go.

hopefully that helps does that help I think she did ask for us to do it at the beginning so we've come in a bit late but better than nothing M says like ask and bath and I say ask and bath there you go that should that should do it

yeah basically the only thing I ever got because my whole dad's side of my family is Norman and the only thing I ever picked up from my granny was she says vegetable instead of vegetable and that's all I've got so I've got one from a girl it's very short and sweet so unfortunately no praise at the top of it but that's okay she says is it just me i'm drowning in adulthood and the complex life admin that goes with

it i've no idea what i'm doing is it just me no it's not just you and i have to say like i feel it's not just you going to lead me on to a rant something that i was thinking about before as i put the washing in and i was like is life just one big cycle of putting the washing in taking it out, letting it dry, wearing it, getting it dirty, putting it back in, doing it all over again, charging your things, letting them drain of battery, charging them up again every night. Like, it's this life. And then every now and then, you have to replace your charger or your thing, or you've to go in, you've to change, you've to clean out the filter and your washing machine, or say what you're doing with your plates, you can put a dishwasher, don't forget

to add salts, and then liquids, and then, oh, it's broken, so we have to call the man how you're going to pay for the man, where you've got to go to work, and then you've got to make the money and then give the tax man half a money. What are you giving it for? I don't know, because you also have to pay council tax and you also have to pay road tax. Why do you have to pay all of these taxes? Then if you don't, I agree.

It's so stressful. And I don't know about you, except I do know about you, because we're very good friends. But I get really overwhelmed by like just sometimes, like I can crack on with my life, like absolutely fine. And then it just takes one thing. And I'm like, I can't do this. The house a card comes crumbling.

Like even today, like I'm just trying to like organize. Literally. It's like, I've just got it. It's just so many things. It's just so many things. I'm getting to the end of my holiday. And I know I said I was looking forward to coming home, but also I'm full of shit because it's just like you've got to come back.

Do you remember, do you remember, do you remember when we, the last time I saw you and I broke my car? I left my car, Al. I left my car because I thought I'm going on holiday so I don't give a fuck. So I left my broken car outside my house. It's still going to be broken when I get back, except I'm going to have no way of getting home because I don't have a car because it's broken and I didn't do anything about it.

I hate being an adult. It's hard. Because it's just like, well, who's gonna fix that? Me, it's so hard. But also it's like, you take your foot off the pedal for a minute and you come back to an absolute shit show. It's like you just, you have to keep up on top of life, I'm in. And I always wonder like how people have children,

like how they do it. I can't keep on top of myself, never mind other human beings and having to keep on top of their laundry and what they're going to eat every day and brushing their teeth and making sure that they're clean, it's just too much. It's too much.

But then I feel like this is the no man's land. I feel like maybe, maybe when I have children or if I have children, I'll be, I'll kind of, I'll get into it. I won't. My kids will just be filthy. They'll have like, just like one tooth

and just like, very neglected. Clown clothes. Yeah. But I sometimes think like in the 20s, it's the worst bit because you're still like kind of like juddering. It's like, you're still like learning to drive. And it's just like, oh, Christ.

And it's just constant. It's just constant. And you think like, oh, well, like, I'll just, I'll get into it. I'll get into it. And then you just don't. Well, you sort of do. But then you just turn around and then bam, there's something else. You know what I mean?

And even fun stuff, even fun stuff doesn't get to be that fun because you still have to organize it. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Or pay for it. Like, even when you're having the best time of your life, you're like, got to pay for it. Yeah. And what I will say is like in my 20s, I was flailing. I was very much kind of lost and in the wind with everything. And the change has been in my 30s, I've made a conscious effort to become as organized as possible. But that doesn't really, I mean, it means you get more done. Like I'm definitely much better now. But it doesn't take it. It doesn't take anything away. You still got to fucking do it. And it's just, it's just life, man. I hate doing things.

I hate to-do lists. I hate the big shop. Honestly, we need a separate episode just to talk about the fucking big shop, but I hate the big shop. Why do I want to decide on Sunday morning

what I want for dinner on Thursday night? I don't want to have to do this. I want to get off the ride. Yeah, you know what I mean? And also, because, like,

you're going to make pasta, but that doesn't mean just picking up a bag of pasta. No, no. You have to get everything that goes with the pasta. And I don't like that. No, all the things.

And what, do you want to survive? Beyond 30? You're going to have to eat the vegetable at some point. Yeah. Fine. You've got to buy vegetables.

You've got to eat them quickly because they're going to go off. How are you going to cook them? How are you going to make them taste nice? I don't know. Oh, all the time. All the time. And then what happens? When you didn't finish it, you've got a compost bin?

No. No, because you're a normal person. And then, and then, right, so you're just going to, like, just ruin the world by not recycling and composting properly. Composting? It's a silly word. Anyway, it's very stressful out. It's very stressful.

I've thought of an idea, a business idea, a supermarket that like meals are grouped together. like the ingredients of meals are grouped together rather than all separate, you know? I don't know, I'm seeing, thinking about this is the spaghetti bolognese section. Yeah, but what happens if you want to make a doll and you also need like some of the same ingredients

or like a chili, some of the same bits that would go into a spaghetti bolognese? Well, that's on you. Like, the, you know, I'm going to give you a basic array of meals and you get to choose and that's your lot, all right? I'm already making life easier, okay?

I don't like this system. No, I think you've made life way harder. If any investors are listening. I'm absolutely out. If any investors are listening, let me know because I think we've got we're onto something here. You completely understand why you're not going for it. You're full of shit, Al, it's a terrible

idea. Al, I think you know it. Okay, yeah, we'll just finish. I feel that we're just ending on like a massive exorcet. Well, actually, just before we do go, my brother keeps getting very frustrated with me because I keep having these massive extestentials. I think there's something about looking at the moon from the other side of the world where I'm just like,

what's the point? Oh, God. I was shitting with him last night and I was looking at the moon. I was like, whoa, look at that. Like, isn't that just insane? Like, look at that. What's the point?

You know what I mean? Like, in a minute, we're just going to be, boop, gone. And he's like, he just looked to me. He's like, am I really struggling with your existentials this trip? I'm like, sorry. I love it. I wish I'd been there because I'd be like, okay, yeah, let's get into it. What is the point?

What is the fucking point? I do it all the time. I keep looking at the grass. I can, but I mean, I keep, honestly, Al, I keep saying this to my Alex. And it's like, me and Alex are talking about it on the flight, what is it like about human beings right we've we've packed up like some of our stuff from like one side of the world like just not all of it just some of it like we've left behind and like our animals and everything and our houses but we just picked like some of our stuff and we got in this like this like metal tube box that somehow flies and we came all the way over the sea and then we landed and then we got here and then we took off most of our clothes and we effectively lie on so on like sunny soil and cook ourselves for most of the day and then when we get too hot

we just go and stand all of us together with these people that we don't know hot hot hot people not wearing anything we just go and stand in a body of water why why it's so nonsensical to me and I keep looking at it and I'm like what the fuck are we doing okay you're sending me

it's really stressing me out you're sending me spiraling it's the same thing with skis what are people doing they go they stick their feet to just pieces of wood and they just they go up and then they just come back down again and then oh back to the top again and then back down again but then if you think too much about it what's the point in anything out what's the point you know what I mean you go for a run wow when you end up back where you started yeah so I hope

you sleep well on behalf of everyone listening I just like to say fuck you for making life seem utterly pointless so great this is why I need these books yeah I know this is why I need these books welcome to my brain it's hell oh god it really is um Right, well, we will see you guys next week, I suppose. We'll see you next week. I've very much doubt anyone's still here. But if you are still here, thank you so much. Yeah, they're like, what's the point?

What's the point? Everyone's just packed up. They just packed up all their shit. They've gone. We're in their headphones in the sea. They've gone a long way away. But I've just had a really good thought. The fact is, if no one can tell us apart,

it means I'm going to start saying really outrageous things. And then if we ever get any shit for it, I'll be like, Alex. That was Al. That was so Al. Okay. Well, we'll actually let you go now. We'll let you get back to the sun. And we'll let you go to bed.

I'll go to bed. And next week will be on the same time zone. Woohoo. And then we'll be back to normal. Yes. Well, I've missed you. I miss everyone and I hope you enjoyed this. Actually, by the time it comes out, I'll be home.

So don't worry. Of course you will be, yes. I'm excited for you to come back because I can start messaging you properly again. Me too. Okay, do-dokey. Well, thank you everyone. Not my God, every time. Thank you everybody for listening.

And we will see you next Monday. We hope you have a lovely week, a lovely day. Yeah. lovely life. And just don't think too much about it. That's the advice from the podcast today. See you next Monday. Okay.

Bye!