Should I Delete That? - ‘I shut down Stansted Airport with my psychotic episode’ - destigmatising bipolar disorder with Rosie Viva

Episode Date: April 27, 2025

In 2018, model Rosie Viva was arrested after she caused Stansted Airport to evacuate all its waiting passengers following a psychotic episode. The aftermath saw her hospitalised, sectioned, and diagnosed with bipolar disorder - a dramatic moment that would alter the course of her life. Rosie joins Em to share her story and shed light on what it's really like to live with bipolar disorder, a complex and often misunderstood mental health condition. Whether you or someone you know lives with bipolar disorder or if you're simply curious to learn more - we hope you find this conversation helpful! Rosie’s book, Completely Normal and Totally Fine, is out on May 8th. You can get your copy here!Follow @rosieviva on Instagram Read Rosie’s Women’s Health piece: 'The hypomanic state can be really beautiful': What life is really like when you have bipolar disorder’ hereIf you'd like to get in touch, you can email us on [e-mail] Follow us on Instagram:@shouldideletethat@em_clarkson@alexlight_ldnShould I Delete That is produced by Faye LawrenceStudio Manager: Dex RoyVideo Editor: Celia GomezSocial Media Manager: Emma-Kirsty FraserMusic: Alex Andrew  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In full psychosis at the airport, I just was hearing voices running around, sort of trying to figure out where Jesus was and God was. And then I jumped through baggage drop off and hit the fire alarm on my left hand side. And then the fire alarm went off and I got arrested. Hello and welcome back to Should I Delete That? In 2018, model Rosie Viva was arrested after she caused Stansett Airport to evacuate all of its waiting passengers following a psychotic episode. After the incident, she was hospitalised, sectioned and subsequently diagnosed with bipolar disorder. It was a dramatic moment that would alter the course of her life. Rosie came to speak to us to shine a light on what it's like to live with a complex mental health condition that's often misunderstood and underdiagnosed.

It's just M on this episode and we hope you enjoy it, whether you or someone that you know lives with bipolar or if you just want to understand more about the condition, we really hope you find it helpful. And if you'd like to hear more of Rosie's story, her book completely normal and totally fine is out on the 8th of May. Here's Rosie. Hello. Thank you so much for coming to talk to us. I have been so excited to do this interview, to have this conversation with you. As this episode's coming out, you've got your book coming out next week, which is so exciting.

And I'm desperate to talk to you about so much everything that led to the best. book about your story. Obviously, the sort of like headline that is attached to, I suppose, is the incident at Stansted Airport, which I feel you just said there, just before we started recording that you feel you're talking a lot about. And I do want to talk about it, but I would love to talk first about your life way before that and your journey with mental health before being diagnosed with bipolar and how your mental health was as you were growing up. Oh, I mean, it's so funny because I'll be so open that I think I've sort of gone through a few diagnoses in my life. And I think one of the most misunderstood things about bipolar is that you can be someone who's shown symptoms of other illnesses growing up.

And so that's why it's quite difficult to spot as well. So if I'm looking at my mental health growing up, it was definitely about age 15 where I started to act differently from friends. I had a friend at school who developed anorexia and I sort of became unwell as a result so I was depressed that she had that and I remember my mum thinking that's quite an extreme reaction like let the doctors look after her and her teachers and I had to take time off school

because I was so upset to see her deteriorating. I was always just called sensitive because that thing kept happening and if I got dumped by a boy I'd go into full depression for three weeks rather than just sort of being someone who's a bit upset about it and listens to sad music. Yeah.

And then I think in sixth form, I was really depressed when my friends were noticing it. And I had really low energy. I was always having naps. And then weirdly looking at videos from that time, though, I was always this sort of energetic, hilarious character and I was masking these lows

by being someone with quite an upbeat temperament. but yeah after school things were really bad again and I went to see a doctor because I was convinced that my fatigue was maybe more than depression and I got an underactive thyroid diagnosis around the age of 19 which for a lot of women with bipolar is very comorbid that medication put things at bay for a few years and then in 2018 when I was leading up to my bipolar diagnosis I started having anxiety and depression again I couldn't model because I was so sort of prone to panic attacks about three times a day and I was seeing doctors because it was getting in the way of work and then when it was stopping my independence I just sort of felt like

okay this is why people seek help so that year I tried loads of antidepressants I was getting worse I was so paranoid I was also having quite grand thoughts about like suicidal ideation and just worrying that my anxiety and my brain had gone wrong and it couldn't go back to normal and I just got very fixated on that belief and that things were sort of over and I wouldn't have a normal life again. And then when I went through a breakup in 2018, probably because my character had changed so much

from like this confident person my ex had met, instead of going really low, I went really high and I was saying to all my friends, like, I'm cured, I don't have any mental health issues anymore. Like this has been the best week. He was obviously the cause of all problems. And that just escalated into my first, psychotic episode that's September and that's when I got my bipolar diagnosis.

How did you feel about your mental health? Because that's like it's a lot, but when it's your normal, it's your normal, right? So were you aware as you were growing up that you felt perhaps like we didn't talk so much about it in the same way as what we do now? You know, with labels, we didn't talk generally about mental health. Were you aware of it as sort of like a part of your story or who you were or was it something you just like I don't want to think about it like I am anxious but I don't need this to be something I talk about with my friends or this doesn't need to be a part of who I am or yeah I think I it just had it just gave me a lot of self-hatred because I would have never said it was mental health I thought I was just ungrateful and because

I was especially like after school working in Paris and modeling there because that was a year where I fell into real deep depression and couldn't exercise or anything I was so aware of my privilege in my job and having a great support system at home and family and friends that I never thought it was depression. I just thought it was me not being able to appreciate life and being not someone who's very grateful. That's really hard. So that was always the narrative in my head until around 2018. It was just like, Rosie, why can't you be rational about the world? I think that's quite a common thing, isn't it, for people to feel that they just, like other people have it worse, right? or there's no reason for this and yeah and i knew that i was like really privileged which i think

made it worse in that i didn't want to complain i've never wanted to complain and i saw it as seeing a doctor is complaining about what i have and i never really opened up the conversation around mental health to know that that's not what it is how did you end up going to a doctor in the first plate, you know, with a sort of GP appointment? So I was actually, at the start of 2018, I was having panic attacks. And obviously, again, someone who doesn't really believe in mental health at the time or didn't know that's what it was, I was convinced that my panic attacks were heart issues. So I was going to the doctor and saying, my heart is going a million miles an hour,

you have to give me body scans. And then I was Googling the symptoms of a near infection and literally taking the symptoms to them and saying, I tick all these boxes, can I have stuff for my ears? And it was just after about six or seven appointments at St. Mary's Hospital where the doctor started to say, A, you're acting really anxiously, like you're here every day in A and E. And B, you don't have anything physically wrong with you. I think you need to see a GP. This is mental illness or mental health.

And so I was sort of led to it in that way. How did that feel when they said that? Just panic. I just, I'd read so much, I think. around the age of 21 I was getting into running so I was slightly more aware of health and I was really getting into cooking like healthily so my Instagram and my algorithms I was aware of mental health definitely better than at school so to know that I was becoming someone in that conversation or that was something I should be reading more about and I could maybe relate to

is just really weird I was like oh it was just like wow okay this is what people talk about when they're unwell. So you believed the doctors when they said like this, this may be anxiety, but you agreed with them? I did. I always thought this doesn't quite add up, though, to anxiety and depression. Parts of it were really helpful in seeing a therapist around that time. I knew that what I was talking about was something that I couldn't deal with on my own

anymore. But there were elements of my beliefs and my thoughts, which were quite spiritual. Yeah. And the voices in my head were louder than my friends were explaining who had depression and anxiety and that tone felt very sort of demonic sometimes and so that side to my brain I just thought maybe I've got something no one else in the world has I never thought bipolar because I didn't know about bipolar but something wasn't adding up with the diagnoses I was given which was generalised anxiety disorder and panic disorder do you feel like you were misdiagnosed

do you think anyone yeah yeah I was misdiagnosed does how do you feel about that Uh, it's difficult because I've just spoken really publicly, um, and done a piece with BBC news about how the NHS is missing diagnoses because the average diagnosis is nine and a half years. For bipolar? Yeah. Wow. So that is the issue is that you go to the doctors and you talk about your low days and

no one says, do you have highs? Because we're just not taught that being happy is a bad thing, whereas obviously it can be quite a key indicator of bipolar. but yeah it was definitely missed but because I had such good care after my diagnosis and the NHS is the reason that I've been able to recover and now speak publicly I always feel bad sort of complaining that the system missed what I had but if I'm completely honest I should have really been seen as someone with bipolar from the age of 19 when I first saw a doctor because I'm a textbook case yeah all of

of my symptoms are very obvious. Okay. So what was it that led to your diagnosis? When I had this breakup in September 2018, when I was having this like euphoria around the react, like my reaction was euphoric, my language started to change and become very religious. So I was texting my parents a lot who were on holiday

and they lost a son when he was seven years old to leukemia. Okay. And I had this massive epiphany that I was him reincarnated. And I was sort of looking in the mirror, seeing him, hearing his voice. And I kept just texting my mum about it quite manically saying, how old was he? I have so much energy. I think something's happening. I think this is what's happening.

And then that even escalated a bit further to thinking that God was coming. But weirdly, I said such weird things at work modeling, but like no one even spoke to my agents. I think people maybe thought that I was on drugs because they just thought it was such weird behavior, but no one sort of thought that I just don't think a lot of people know bipolar and the spiritual symptoms to spot. So I was running on no sleep for two weeks and just posting a lot on Instagram about these epiphanies and Jesus and all of this. And then one night, I just didn't sleep at all. And my parents had booked me flights to go to be on holiday with them. because they didn't know what was happening.

They just knew that they wanted to be close to me to sort of figure out what was going on. And then I woke up that, well, got up that morning, did a run, ran around London, proposed to someone, stole from shops, tried to jump off a roof of a cafe, like it was just a lot crammed in before I got to the airport. And then in full psychosis at the airport, I just was hearing voices running around,

sort of trying to figure out where Jesus was. and God was and then I jumped through baggage drop off and hit the fire alarm on my left hand side and then the fire alarm went off and I got arrested. So that's that's how I got my diagnosis. So you were taken by the police. Did they take you to police? They took me to do they take you to prison? Did they take you to cells or were you taken to hospital? So first of all I was just taken to a high security room in Stansford and I just remember. all the policemen were like sat around me and I just had no concept of what it had happened. So I was just laughing hysterically and calling like this woman on my left,

policey McPleece and like asking everyone what tattoos they had and saying where I was going on holiday and all of this. So I wasn't registering what had happened. But I knew that I was getting help and something about that was calming me down weirdly. And then I got an ambulance because I think the spiritual language quite quickly. as soon as someone on site who's got medical background knew that this was mental illness and not me trying to shut down Stanston.

And then I went to A&E for a day and then a bed came up in Ealing Hospital. So that's where I was sectioned. Okay. And for people who aren't in the UK who aren't familiar, what is sectioning? So sectioning is where under the Mental Health Act you are basically put into care without your like written or verbal permission okay so you're a threat to yourself at that point

so whether it's psychosis or whether it's like being very suicidal if people feel that you're not capable of looking after yourself that law is there to get you in care so you've got 24 hour supervision were you sort of cognizant of that happening how are you feeling at that time I mean eyesight everything was gone so I didn't actually recognised my parents for two months I don't that day was just hearing voices I mean I couldn't see

normal things everyone was morphing into different people and stuff it was sort of like a nightmare so I didn't actually register what was going on for about six to eight weeks when my medication started kicking in wow that must have been so terrifying for you and for your parents

it was so weird because time sort of I'm sure when I was in it and when I was in it I was terrified and it felt like forever. But then at the same time, I just about, yeah, six weeks in, my mum walked into the waiting room and I just was so emotional.

I was just crying and crying. She bought me blueberry muffins from M&S, which is like my favorite thing in the world. I was just like, oh my God, that's my mom, that's my mom, that's my mom. And everyone was like, yes, that's your mom. And I was like, where have you been? Like, where am I, what's going on? And she was like, I've been here every day for six weeks.

and I was like, what? I just hadn't registered her yet or like being with it enough to know she was there and that was the first day where I started understanding English again, I guess and realizing, oh, I'm in hospital and gradually she started saying, you've got this diagnosis, this is why you're here.

But it took a lot of weeks of getting that into my head. Yeah. Because I just didn't, I was still, you know, having a whole days where I couldn't see her again. So it was quite... fragmented until I fully understood that must have been terrifying yeah I'm not very good at talking about like how hard it was no because my react like I think I deal with and the book again is just such a reflection of how I've dealt with the whole thing but I deal with dark with light

yeah and so that time I a lot of my memory tries to block it out but the odd thing will trigger me and then I'll sort of remember it and have those sad emotions around it but Yeah, it's not an experience I would wish upon anyone. No. I don't think. And that must have been awful for your mom as well. I mean, not to speak for her because obviously she's not here. But I imagine as a parent that's just must be and to not be in the UK as well when it happens.

It must just be really. I'm so sorry for both of you because that's just a really terrifying experience and ordeal. Yeah. I mean, she flew back. She was back within 12 hours. I think she got the first flight back. Yeah. And then my dad had a really sweet friend who flew out because they had their car out there.

His friend flew out to join him and then they drove back together over a few days. But I think she was really worried, although luckily we had a family friend who was a psychiatrist. Okay. And after a few days, I think there's probably quite a gray area where they figure out, could this be schizophrenia? Yeah. Could this be psychosis as a result of taking drugs? but once you start fitting the bipolar brackets I think there was also a lot of relief

that at least we knew what I was dealing with now whereas the year before I was saying I'm really unwell like this is not normal and I just don't think anyone was taking me seriously because my temperament is like everything's fine so it was a bit less easy to understand yeah did it come with I mean I imagine for you

because obviously you're in such a cloudy state and it was given to you over a series of days your diagnosis. Like, like, you know, obviously it was taking time for it to sink in. But did it, I guess for your mom, was there a sense of, I don't know. I mean, yeah, I guess relief that it's that you're safe. Because I imagine that's, if she's obviously recognized that you're unwell and you've recognized that you're unwell, it must just be, I don't know, I can't put all these questions to you because your mom's not here.

But I guess I worry that as a parent, now that it's like it must have just felt like a waiting game for her if you were getting worse but without getting help yeah i think she always says that hospital was actually okay because she knew i was safe yeah so overnight even though i wasn't sleep because i could not sleep i was sleeping one hour a night but there's someone watching you there's someone in your doorway there's nothing you can sort of harm yourself with i think what she actually found much more difficult was the seven months after hospital when i went into the low. Okay.

After psychosis, you can't really avoid the fact that your brain, your body, everything is completely depleted from the lack of sleep. So I went into a seven-month low then, and that was more challenging for her, because I went into having two people come every day to check on me when I was on suicide watch, and that she just never felt safe and she couldn't sleep. And we considered me being sectioned again on the day that things got really bad, but I've, I've never seen my mum break down and that was like the worst day, I think. That was after you'd been discharged from the hospital in Ealing.

Yes, I think I was depressed for seven months after Ealing. Slowly, sort of I came out in November. Christmas was about all right because I was just glad to be sleeping in my own bed again and being able to have my mum's food and see my family. And then the reality of what had happened hit, the fact that I wouldn't be working for a few years and that the care was so intense. and that low afterwards she had to sort of stop working and care for me and I think that time seeing your mom who's like always been your strongest figure

that was yeah really challenging I hate to put her through that again so we've become very close for sure yeah I think there's like quite a lot of misconception publicly about bipolar I think public figures have it I Can you worst has it? And it's spoken about often in like a way, I guess that, oh, well, that's why he's behaving this way because he has bipolar. And as with a lot of mental health illnesses, they're often trivialized and also like thrown around as a, oh, she's so bipolar, the weather's so bipolar, whatever, so by, it's a word

that's used a lot, but perhaps not understood that much. But it's defined by the highs. can you tell me high something like the official definition of it but you've got highs and lows right so you've got depression and mania yes so there's two types of bipolar i mean actually there's i think there's four but the the main two is bipolar one and bipolar two yeah and it is characterized by having both depression and mania or hypomania which is sort of a more manageable level of high so with type one which is what i have you can go into psychosis and delusion and equally on the low end

you get very deluded so your chances of taking your life go up 20% compared to the average person because on that lower end you really believe that there's no point in anything but someone with type 2 just has, I say just has still a lot to deal with but they have hypermania

and depression so they don't have the psychotic aspect both can be sort of episodes of months at a time or someone like me I've got rapid cycling which means that I have four or five different episodes a year sometimes in a day I'll go between different states of high and low so everyone's pattern's really different but to get the diagnosis you have to be someone

who sits in these states for certain amounts of time and it is an extreme mood width basically is that the case even when you're on medication you're still expecting to have these rapid cycles After hospital, I was on a lot of medication. So I was on a mood stabilizer. I was on antidepressants. I was on an antipsychotic.

I was on something for my thyroid. And for a lot of people with bipolar, when you're having such extremes where you need to go to hospital, some people stay on four or five their whole life. I personally, because my personality is so interlinked with it after sort of the privilege of having a few years stable on all of those medications, I started to become really curious about what it would feel like to manage on less. And managing on less for me has eventually been coming down just to an antipsychotic,

which is something I will never not take just because of the sort of ability to go into psychosis on a daily basis. But that means that I am someone who has highs and lows all the time. And I guess when you get older, you just, for me, or in my case, I stopped caring so much if people know I'm high or low. Yeah. And that was why I decided to manage on less medication because I thought all I get out of taking more medication is sort of dampening my emotions.

And the fear before was just, oh God, I'd hate for someone to look at me and go, Rosie's so high or Rosie's depressed. Whereas now I speak publicly about this, I've managed to get rid of that shame around being bipolar, know if that makes sense. So I don't really mind if people know I'm high. I think that's really beautiful to recognize that it's part of who you are and to kind of lean into that and celebrate how much of your personality is linked with. Because hearing what you were saying at the beginning about how you felt your friend's illness

when she was struggling with an eating disorder, the sort of empathy that it sounds like you've always had is a really beautiful, trait to have. I mean, obviously it comes at a personal cost to a lot of people and definitely sounds like it has done to you. But that it's a very big hearted. Yeah, there's a lot of love. A lot of, I like get a bit. I mean, we were just saying I've just been to Paris, but I get prescribed extra medications for holidays because I get so excited. And Christmas is one of the most triggering times for people with bipolar because we can't believe how much love there is to It's a very sweet thing in the right moment.

It's like the bane and the love of my life in that I know that I feel really lucky to feel such things so strongly. But I'm, yeah, coming to terms with not all of it being bad, for sure. That is, yeah, I mean, we're saying before recording someone very special and close in my life has bipolar and it is the most, hearing you describe that,

it is the most beautiful, this person in my life the most purest, most beautiful heart of anyone I've ever met, I think. And it's so nice to hear. But it's so lovely to hear you say that that is a part because mental health is so stigmatized. And it is lovely to hear that within it, you know, I think even thinking about more common mental ailments, like thinking about anxiety, which is the thing I've always struggled with, there is a part of anxiety that is, that comes from such a pure and

lovely place that sometimes when you think, oh, I don't want to fix this because I like worrying about the people that I love. And it's convoluted and it's, and I know that like that's a very like broad, but it does, I, I'm really like excited for you and I think it's wonderful to hear it said publicly that you are trying to explore your boundaries within who you are, how much of you is the illness and how much and that you feel safe not to express yourself, be yourself, explore yourself in front of people. I think it's also, I'm learning so much more now that it is a neurodivergent way of thinking. You know, when you're in psychosis, of course I'm ill.

But when I'm managing, it is just a different way to sort of navigate day-to-day life. And even when I had anxiety, mine was always around feeling unsafe. And then I love to sort of challenge that voice where I'm like, Rosie, maybe you're not ill. Like, we're on a floating rock in a galaxy. That's actually quite an irrational way to be anxious. like maybe we should all wake up and just scream. Maybe we are unsafe. They just don't always tell yourself you're ill because that's quite a valid thought

at the age of 28 that you don't know whether you're going to wake up and like, I don't know, I saw this meme where it was like, why do cockerel scream in the morning? And sometimes I feel like that and I'm like, you know, we shouldn't always make when our brain has these weird thoughts, we shouldn't always be like, oh, you're just ill, you're just still. Yeah, there's just a lot of curiosity as well, which comes with those emotions. It's like sometimes it all feels like it's too much because it is too much. Yeah.

And I think like there's, but it's what you're saying before about, you know, feeling that you're at a point in your life where you can explore this. And like you, you've used, you've come back off the medication because you're not so worried about what the people around you are thinking and you don't care if they see you high and you don't care if they see you low. And that's such a wonderful thing because I do think with all mental illness that's such a big part of why we don't talk about it

or why we mask particularly women and why we're trying to hide actually not even particularly women because I know obviously there are depression rates and men are so frightening me high but why so many people hide that part of themselves because they feel like it's wrong but it's an inevitability in so many people

and in so many ways and it does seem heartbreaking when you say it like that that we have to quash it all the time. And I'm always, I think the thing is with bipolar or any of these illnesses from what I've heard from other people, your internal monologue can be so strong sometimes. When you're trying to hide it, it can take up so much energy.

And I've got so much better. If a friend's telling me something, and I've been in my head thinking, oh God, are they going to notice that I'm depressed today? What would I do? Do I look really sad? This, this, this. Sometimes I'll just stop and say,

can you repeat that? I'm so sorry, I'm low today and concentrating is worse. Like sometimes I'm just in my own head. And as soon as you do that, people are just like, oh my God, I was feeling like that today. And I've got so much better at explaining to people when I'm having a bad or a really high day because nine times out of 10 they can relate to it or say, oh God, I'm on another planet and actually can we just talk about how we feel

rather than this like show we're watching. I'm like, great. How has it been explained? explaining that and because it it must be really hard in that you you want you want to do this for yourself and you want the best of yourself obviously and that's right but I guess learning to trust yourself or the voices in your head after having had such a frightening experience with it how are you finding like how has that been a part of the therapy that you've done or have the conversations that you've had with your parents or is that just something that

you're just sort of constantly trying to keep a balance with in your own life. The thing is, is when you've actually lost your mind and your senses betray you. Like I was believing that God was coming. I believed I was Susan Boyle for a whole week. And when I was in it, that was my reality. And I think when I'm now aware of delusion, I think writing does help me because I'll become obsessed with something and believe that this is definitely going to happen and that this is all set to go in the stars, like a meeting or something.

And then reading my language, I've just got better at recognising when it could be bipolar. I can't say that I ever always have a gauge on what's right and what's not in the moment. But I'm being a bit more forgiving on myself if some weeks, whether it's delusion or depression, saying that things are going badly, I just know that some weeks or some months I'm not going to keep making progress. yeah and it's normal to speak in hyperbole and to dream big and feel low and yeah you have to really accept and uh my happy i i would say to people now i'm really happy but when you have bipolar happiness is someone with depression like i'm not getting rid of depression that was never laid out to me by my doctors there wasn't this aim for me to be someone without highs and lows

because it's not an illness you recover from and you can say, oh, in my 20s, I had this and now I got into these wellness things and I'm feeling better. It's like admitting you're someone who's always got extremes. Yeah. Which was actually quite refreshing because I think like anyone who's sort of 20, 21

and trying to fit in and go up, up, up in career and happiness, that was really exhausting in itself. So just accepting these huge emotions is actually really, really nice and quite freeing because I just sort of take it day by, day, which is nice. Do you feel like bipolar is a part of your every single day? And is it something that you have to make a part of your day and your plan and how you operate? Or is it something that some days you can just leave at home and definitely can. I mean, I don't really know life

without it. It's just, I guess it's small things I have to think about every day, which other people might not, although I've got so used to managing it in that sense. So, It's even just things like in the first 10 minutes of my day when I'm doing my usual sort of routines of getting coffees and looking at like what my friends have texted me and stuff, I start looking for signs as to whether I'm high. That's just become part of my sort of, is the day going to escalate or am I in a low?

I mean, low is much easier to spot because physically you wake up a lot more tired. But those moments of checking in with myself tend to be at the start of the day. and then when I'm busy or when I'm working and doing things, bipolar doesn't have to overtake your life and it doesn't become every day in the focus of it. I guess when I'm doing this book,

because my passion is so interlinked with what I manage, I find those conversations really stimulating, but I'm managing to hold down a job again and hang out with friends and say yes to social plans. So the reason I speak openly about this is for people who aren't having independence away. from their bipolar yet to know that that can happen. Yeah.

This is now like a conscious decision every day to stay in the conversation because a lot of people get on with their lives and don't sort of say that that's an option. Unfortunately, a lot of forums are really negative. So yeah, it's a conscious decision to think about it every day. But day to day I'm managing to work and see friends and go out late again and drink again

and join in socially. and that's why I believe it's not overtaking my life and that is also a place I didn't think was possible when I was really unwell. So that's sort of why I want to speak so publicly about it because for a lot of young people around your diagnosis when you're waking up in hospital or you're looking at two, three years of care in front of you

and you can't relate to your friends your age, I don't think it's ever not going to be part of your life but it can be something you can be independent of day to day, for sure. It's really amazing that you are prepared to share your story and to talk so openly about this. Has that been something, at what point did you feel? Because you said you wrote journals and you've always written.

But at what point in your recovery did you think I need to talk about this or I'd like to talk about this? It took a few years. So at first I didn't want bipolar because I didn't know about it. I was ashamed. I associated it with people who are erratic and mean and unkind. and I think when you're in hospital and you're locked away

and you're not allowed to use the shower or whatever because you're too unwell it sort of gives you this sense that you've done something wrong even though it's the care you need it's like you're not allowed to do this yet and so I inherently thought oh God this is just another extension

of me thinking I'm a bad person and then I think after a few years or it was about a year and a half into my diagnosis, lockdown happened and I was so relieved because I knew that I was still really unwell. I was really struggling on a medication called lithium with the weight gain. It was causing me to have binge eating issues and I just felt like I actually wasn't getting any better and I couldn't manage. And then in that time I got asked to go on a podcast and it was so funny because I knew that I was sort of wanting to portray, oh, I've got a diagnosis.

and I completely understand this now and I can manage all the symptoms and I love my medication but I really didn't and I put it out and my voice was like shaking in the podcast and I thought oh god I'm A will my ex listen to this

will my friends listen to this like what are people going to think of me talking about this embarrassing part of my life and then it was just the response from that it was only one message from someone my age which was like four paragraphs in DMs about how similar their experience was, that I just started having these moments of being like,

oh, wow, when people talk about breaking the stigma, this is actually something not spoken about. It's just not beyond my network and even my close friends who listened to that podcast were really confused and shocked and didn't even know why I was in hospital or they thought maybe I was like going in at nine and leaving at five if it was like not a close friend,

but a friend. I don't think anyone understood that world at all or being sectioned or having psychosis. So I just started building up my confidence that maybe this was something I should do to give back, especially when I got my life back. I actually signed up to be a nurse at first.

Did you? Yeah, I enrolled to be a mental health nurse at Kings and I started term there. And then because sleep is the most important factor to staying stable with like 12 weeks of night shifts and everything in my curriculum, I just wanted to find a different way to add to the care out there

or the conversation or some way which wasn't actually going to harm my own mental health. Yeah. And it's quite nice because although Instagram has all of its downfalls, it doesn't, it's not something which is affecting my day to day so I can sort of go, speak about it openly and then put my phone away and have a normal existence. Whereas with nursing, I was just worried that I'd be triggered

by seeing people in psychosis again. Yeah, of course. So it felt a bit too far. Yeah. And it is providing, you know, again, for all of Instagram or social media's downfalls, like it does provide connection, which, you know,

even getting that DM the first time you did it. Yeah. It's such an incredible gift that you give people because I don't know what the statistics for bipolar are, but it's not a common, it's not common by any stretch. And I imagine it's a really heavy thing. As you experienced when your friend had that eating disorder at school,

so when someone in your circle has a mental health illness, I think a lot of people just don't know what to do and they don't know what to say and it's you know you're providing an incredible giving an incredible gift to those suffering with bipolar but I think also to the people who are friends of people to be able to offer them that perspective because we so often we're so frightened of labels

we're so frightened of saying the wrong thing we're so frightened of overstepping or being nosy or whatever it is that people don't check in because they don't know how to and I think by giving an insight into what it's been like for you what day to day is like what hospital was like it's providing light into a dark space which is a wonderful thing to give people thank you i mean yeah my i'm really excited that my book will obviously be for people with bipolar but i think what's really

nice about what i've done is writing in the style of my favorite authors which i know that all of my friends also enjoy reading. So that sort of conversational, self-deprecating Bridget Jonesy-esque account will also be something which people can read who maybe have a friend suffering or their mom has it or, you know, I wanted the book to be able to be read by anyone. I didn't want to make it in the mental health space because when you're getting your diagnosis and you're looking for a book about it, everything does fall there and you just want to feel normal and you just want to feel young and you want to have a book which your friends are also reading. So that's why I wanted to sort of, yeah, bridge the gap. How did you navigate your friendships at that time? How did you find

having this conversation with them? Classic me. I was like from day one, week one of being out of hospital, my first reaction was, oh my gosh, how funny. I thought I was Susan Boyle, making light of it, making light of it. Yeah. Interactive with people for a bit. And then, you know, I was trying to just go back to normal. straight away and drink and, but I just wasn't being realistic about how much of an ordeal it had been. And when I went into the low after hospital, I just pushed myself away from friends. And I just was worried that I wasn't going to make it. So it was just a massive distance between myself and everyone for about seven months. And even when I saw people, I was just completely

masking. And I wasn't talking honestly. I was trying to think what old me would have said or talking about something really surface level like dating or I was completely avoidant of opening up about my mental health and what I was going through how much treatment I had ahead of me. So yeah, it was a difficult time to have friends and I think when people were going out and making sort of progress in their career or studying, I just felt I couldn't relate to anyone. So it was a difficult time. But the really good friends, friends just gave me space and haven't made me feel like I missed out on a few years of life, I guess.

They just naturally came or stayed there and waited until I came back, I guess. If someone's listening who has a friend who's in the position that you were, is that your advice to them to just stay and to wait? What I find really nice is when a friend will say, how's your mood been rather than how are you? because you just go into sort of automatic like oh yeah really good thank you or just like how's your bipolar bean it's like can we just put what the elephant in the room is there because obviously if you're someone who doesn't like that you can say oh I don't want to talk about it but it gives

you the option to speak about it if you want yeah but then at the same time I think when friends really know each other a lot of my best friends were knowing when I wasn't super chatty and I was behind the eyes and I was still very depressed or even now when I have those episodes it's just suggesting things we could do which don't involve too much talking so my friends will say why don't we watch dinner day all evening and I'll cook for us

and it's just like this relief that then on the day if I'm feeling slightly better we could talk but it's not like let's go to this pub and I really want to try this wine bar it's like I'll always come to my friends with those plans when I'm in a place to but I think if you have a friend who's going through a rough time, just cinema trips or coming around to watch something on

TV. It's just taking the pressure off that person. Yeah, something that's not contingent on you being well enough to do it. Or not just having to speak. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's a lot of pressure. Completely mute when I'm down. I'm just like, I don't have a lot to say. I'm really sorry. Yeah. So it's just making someone feel comfortable that they're not expected to do too much talking or explaining yeah i think that's applicable for for so much isn't it it's like giving a friend's permission to be to not need to perform for them my biggest and i still do this now even after years of having lows and being around my friends now more in my lows i still apologize i'm so sorry i'm not the fun me i'm so sorry i'm not the high me and i'm just learning that i also can't always aim

to be high because that's ridiculous. Do you want to be? Like is that the sort of, do you, do you think it's a case of like romanticising that bit and being like, well, this is the fun bit and this is a bit that people like? Or do you genuinely think of yourself as that sort of the best version of yourself? It's a, it's such a fun feeling because it's so contagious. Yeah. When I'm high, I even have it that I'll buy a drink at Tesco and the person behind the

till will say, you look really happy today. And it's like this, your eyes just sort of open up and you've got this energy and people really clock onto it. And I love it with my friends because it makes them laugh so much. But at the same time, I don't, I try not to glamorize it because you also have the downfalls of being high where you speak a lot more about yourself and you're less good at listening to friends and you can't concentrate if they're telling you a story. so it's sort of finding that balance of I'll see friends in that time but not for too long because I do start getting in my head about it and I get a bit insecure so I also spend a lot of my high days going on runs and walks on my own and just trying to enjoy listening to music and yeah because it's a yeah love-hate relationship with being around people in that state

is a low always follow a high not always no so I think that's such a misconception about bipolar is that it has some order. Yeah. And it's a disorder. So last year, I went into hypermania for three months. So I was sleeping for four hours for three months. And every day I was getting higher. And I was in a desk job at the time. And trying to hide it was just so difficult because I was just sat there being like, I feel like I'm at main stage at Glastonbury. And I have to carry out all these tasks and all of your energy is bumming me out. And I just don't want to be here. And had to do that for so long and I was being really bad at my job and I was being really distracted and I was taking really long lunch breaks and I got into trouble for it and I just thought after

that surely after three months of this when I recognized it and I took a holiday and started taking more medication to sort of level out and I didn't go into a low at all like over Christmas it was just sort of like and it never had a crash so I just realized wow it's so good not to chase those things even though there might not always be a low after you just can't predict them which is just something that reminds you of is it doesn't make sense so don't assume you know it yeah just to speak quickly to the like the public perception of it or the misconception again like touching on Kanye West having it earlier I feel that we don't have a particularly clear or necessarily kind perception of bipolar.

Is there anything that you want to change with this book and with the conversations that you're having? Is there any part of the public conversation or sort of associated stigma that you really wish didn't exist or you want to try and get rid of? The main thing is that I, at 21, I thought that bipolar was this bad thing. And unfortunately, for any young person,

who has that opinion, when they then get the diagnosis, that is then the crux of why for years they'll struggle with it. Because your opinion of yourself is this bad person and you're embarrassed to have it and you're ashamed and it just adds to the horrible process of dealing with it. So even to normalize it and get rid of that connotation of it being a bad thing, that is what drives me so much because it just breaks my heart. That at 22, I was just being so unkind to myself for something, which is just essentially like a depth to your moods. It isn't making you any more likely to be a bad person than anyone else. And like we said earlier, there's so many positive sides to it.

So just rebalancing the conversation for the sake of young people around their diagnosis, that's what I focus on because I just always think back to what would have helped me at that time to not get so close to sort of ending at all, I think. Yeah. Yeah. And the NHS were amazing for you once you were sectioned. And they've continued to look after you. Yes.

So I had three years of care after hospital. So when you're sectioned, you don't, when you leave hospital, it's not back to, oh, this is your GP, call up if you need help. Yeah. It's like, we're going to check on you every single day for three years. Wow. And so I had a team of about six people. And that's called an intervention team.

Uh-huh. And then I had a crisis team. who came to my house every day when I decided not to be hospitalized in the low. And that team, yeah, it was sort of three check-ins a week. And then three years later, when I was going to be discharged back to my GP, which is where I am now, just like everyone else, if I need help, call my GP. They've got all my records. But at three years, I still didn't feel ready to go back to just having a GP.

I still felt I needed someone at two in the morning if I was feeling suicidal or high. and so I extended my care and that was never I never felt like that was a burden I just went through a bit of a weird breakup at the time and it just triggered a whole other symptom I hadn't dealt with yet

and so yeah the care was there longer if I needed it but at three and a half years I went back to what I am now although I might have to sign up for care again if I get pregnant because I'm very prone to psychosis after I give birth apparently

people with bipolar Yeah, yeah. Postpartum psychosis is a massive thing and a reason why women with bipolar worry about becoming a mum. Yeah. So I just around big life events or if I go through grief or get pregnant, that sort of thing, I might need to have care again outside my GP. But it's easy for you to access that. Yeah. You just have to get yourself back in the system with your local borough and start being checked in on again. So I guess the issue, there is the nine and a half years to get a diagnosis. And it's a case of once you're under that care, it's amazing.

It's just... Once you're in the system, great. Getting in the system being taken seriously, unfortunately, most people with bipolar get their diagnosis, either from psychosis like I did or from a suicide attempt. And that's what's really sad. Sort of too late then. It's a bit too late a lot of the time, yeah.

Yeah. What needs to change there, in your opinion? Is it a case of the public conversation and the... and misconceptions around around the sort of highs and lows, is that what needs to be part of the conversation or is it sort of bigger than that? I think the main thing,

which sounds really sort of basic, but it's actually just so important, the more people talk about this, the more awareness there is around highs being a part of mental health. And so if your friend is so depressed, but you're sort of seeing them, being the funniest person on the night out,

doing 10 shots of vodka, and something there might start to make you think that you could approach them with the conversation of could you have bipolar because that would speed up the diagnosis and maybe stop them having a few years off work and in care and all of that sort of thing. I know that there should be more conversation

within a GP surgery about those symptoms because so many young people are taking antidepressants and the likelihood is that if you've taken two or three and they're not working, you could be someone with bipolar as well. Um, SSRIs are really not great for lots of us. Okay. So I was on search reline when I had my episode and that would have been a massive trigger as well.

Okay. Because it's sort of pushing you up as someone who does not need to be pushed up. No, course. How do you think you'd have felt if one of your friends had come to you and said, do you think you might have bipolar before you were diagnosed? Probably so mortified and defensive. Yeah. I think.

There was a GP about four months. before my diagnosis, who was a temporary staff member. And I was in his office talking about my depression for the zillionth time that year. And I said, oh, you know, I just need to get better because I'm going to be the best model in the world. And he just clocked what I said and was like, that's quite grand.

Have you and your mum ever spoken about bipolar? And me and my mum stormed out. My mom said, don't call my daughter crazy. And I didn't even Google it. I didn't get home because for me, bipolar and schizophrenia with this thing, way over there and my experience as a young 20 year old going to school working was just not something where the two worlds met so yeah I was defensive angry had a panic attack that

day and just hated the doctor but I didn't even listen yeah I just didn't it was like someone saying I don't know are you wearing red shoes and I just thought that's not possible because I see brown yeah that was the worst example yeah but it just didn't trigger yeah yeah a sort of curiosity at all. With that in mind, would you still say, would you still think it was worth it if someone's listening and they're worried about a friend potentially having something like this?

Yes. It's still worth them saying it. 100% because hopefully they would even Google or now everyone like Chet's chat, GPT or whatever for these things, but even if you were to Google it, it's just getting it on your radar or even vocalizing it around your parents

and then if you started saying things in a religious sense, they might you know pick up on it um it's just anything to stop someone reaching crisis is helpful so approach a friend maybe speak to them about it i find you could now send someone an article on instagram or something if you don't want to have a face-to-face conversation yeah that's sometimes quite a good way to approach things with friends um just something sort of relatable and saying have you thought about this or i would hope because i'm so candid about my experience that But even when I wrote for women's health a few years ago, that article I was so happy that if someone had a friend they're worried about, they might be able to send it to them

in the context of a wellness magazine. And even if you package it up in a way to make them feel less alone, it doesn't really matter if it gives them a chance to consider that's what they have. Yeah. Or they could send a book in the post. Yeah. It comes out. Yeah. On the 8th of May. I'm really excited. I'm so happy for you. Your book completely normal and totally fine. We'll be out next week. we're going to leave the link to it in the show notes. Amazing. Thank you so much for having me.

Should I delete that is part of the ACAS creator network.