Should I Delete That? - "I went on 28 dates in 28 days!"

Episode Date: October 22, 2023

Marin was tired of being in a dating rut. Dating toxic co-workers, rehashing old patterns, she decided to take action. In the month of love, February, she undertook a challenge: to go on a date every single day. She went on 28 dates in 28 days, and as she shared her challenge on socials, it went viral. She shares how she did it and what she learnt along the way. She talks splitting bills, the pink tax and waiting 90 days before having sex...You can follow Marin on Instagram @lifeofmarinnycFollow us on Instagram @shouldideletethatEmail us at [e-mail] by Daisy GrantMusic by Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hookup culture is rampant here and it's very transact, everything's very transactional. And so a way for me to gauge if a guy is truly investing in me is, does he pick up the check automatically? I'm paying for my makeup, my hair, the pink tack. Like, I feel like that's the least he can do. Hello, and welcome back to Should I Delete That? I'm Alex Light. And I'm Em Coxon. How you doing, Al? And Emma's just finished a mouthful of chocolate. Can you tell us what chocolate, please? I'm intrigued.

It was the festive bar of Nomo reindeer. Please ignore my baby. It's bath time and she's kicking off. And I need sustenance. So I've had a festive reindeer. No, no, no, they care that it's only October. It's also... Oh my God, I love that.

Pre-dinner. I've had a pre-dinner chocolate bar. So that's my day. That's okay. Who's to say what your starters should look like? Exactly. You know? Exactly.

I think that's a perfect starter. Oh my God, Christmas. That's very exciting. It's coming. Like, I'm, yeah, I'm feeling very Christmassy. How you doing? I'm good. I'm good.

My good is, yeah, I'm doing good. And my good is that I am now in my third trimester. A couple weeks in now, which is crazy. And it's... Unreal. Less scary than I thought. It's pretty cool. It is cool.

It is cool. I mean, I'm very much showing now. and that's weird and it's so weird to stand out like I feel like a sore thumb but it's cool to be in the third trimester I thought it would never come it's been like coming it feels like for like 17 years honestly that's how long I feel like I've been pregnant for so so yeah so that's my good what about you god I keep forgetting because because you've been away and I'm only seeing you on zoom I only see you from the up so I haven't seen tummy so it's like I forget and obviously I'm so selfish and like yeah yeah because I'm

just like tired and I'm just not seeing you so I think you're going to get no I think you're going to get a shock when you see I have no doubt and we're recording on Monday I know I'm beside myself yeah yeah we're we're recording next week I can't wait see you recording next week yeah I know it's crazy I just I feel like yeah it's so weird so weird but my bad is that I very light-hearted bad is that I am going to the toilet maybe three times an hour if I'm lucky like up to five and I've become obsessed with counting how long the stream of my we is and if it's beyond two seconds like that's a good way beyond two seconds yeah like one two and then I'm like okay it was worth going to the toilet it's like I'm desperate but I go and there's a dribble comes out

and it's horrible I hate it you okay it's hurt I just I feel like it's a short little no it doesn't it doesn't hurt I feel like the baby's on my bladder oh because they told me at the scan that it was. That was a long time ago, so it should have moved by now, but it's not. There's not a bunch of space in there. Like, at different points, obviously they're going to be on the bladder because, like, bless them, where else they're going to go? Yeah, just annoying. I mean, fine, but it's just annoying. I'd like to stop going to the toilet. Okay, so you're good is that you're very pregnant and your bad is that you're very pregnant. Yeah, there you go. And I've got a few months to go, so that's scary. Anyway, talk to me.

I don't even think I don't even think I've got goods or bags this week It's just been entirely awkward I've got so many awkwards out I'm just gonna barrel them off I love that I don't I don't Number one awkward today A classic, an old school and original I went to go and

Hug a woman who was ready for the handshake And it went in it went into the soft soft soft soft On the folds The soft folds of my stomach Look, it was crushing, devastating. Oh, stop it. She had no humour for the situation and I hated it. Also, this morning, also this morning, I walked into it, and you know how I feel about revolving doors,

but I walked into a revolving door and it froze. So I was in, and it was a huge office complex. I've never seen so many, maybe it's because of COVID and because I've been out of the, like, corporate game for a while, slash my old wife, because I've never had a stuff. serious job but I've never been to an office full of so many trendy young people in my life at all like they it was like there was a fancy little coffee thing it was in voxel but there were like young good looking people everywhere what did I do no bed that I am get stuck in the segment and it was horrible I didn't know where I was oh that's so bad and then when I finally got

to the past I was meeting handshake hug chaos it was horrendous Yeah, really bad. There is, guys, there is nothing I love more than getting into the same segment as M of a revolving door, because she hates it so much. I think it's got to respect personal space and nobody does, you get in the thing, it's like, because then L feet have to match up

and you've got to do the horrible shuffle, and I hate it. I hate it too, but I love watching you more. So I, that's overridden. That's one of the main incentives to have a baby, I think, is that no one expects you to go through the segments anymore. Yeah, that's, that's too awkward, and that's gross. I have another one, I have another one, I need to remember what it is. Oh, go on.

Oh, my third awkward out, honestly, I don't think the brand's going to approve it. And honestly, they shouldn't, they shouldn't approve it. But I went on the tube to go and be the little tube girl, didn't I? I went to go, I went to go and try and be cool for an ad. and it was like a little of life. So if you're listening to this, it'll, if the brand approves it, which they probably won't,

you'll sit next week. And I swear to God, if you don't like it and spam it with all the love in the world, I am going to be devastated because it was horrific. Oh my God. I'm so excited. That takes balls. Big balls.

It was honestly out. I can't even tell you how horrendous it was. Like, and the song played really loudly when I went to go and do it and all these young girls, like students looked at me. genuinely like, this is tragic, you stupid old woman, what are you doing? And I was like, good fucking question. Oh my God.

Twice, I did it and I wasn't recording. Yeah, I will. Twice I was doing it and it wasn't recording. So I had to do it again. By accident. By accident. Oh, no. And it was so bad.

And my final product is not good. Like, I'm not proud of it. It doesn't even look that good. But I was like, this is better than anything else I could have done. We need it on the industry. Instagram. Well, it'll be on my bloody Instagram. Assuming the Bram say yes.

And if they don't, it'll go over, should I delete that one anyway, just for the cringe fact. Or I'll give you guys the outtakes, of which there are many. Oh, please give us the outtakes. Come on, please. We deserve the outtakes. Yeah, you know it's a welcome home president. I need to see this.

Do you have an awkward of your own before we get into the interview? I do. I'm with my nephew and he is being potty trained. Instantly funny. It's going, it's, well, you'll, I'm about to tell you how well it's going. I was holding him He was having a little We were having a little hug

He was just on my shoulder And suddenly I'm dripping wet And he's pissed all over me When have you pissed all over me And he's two and a half right So it's like He's not at the baby stage But like we and poo

It's just like It's like it's like It's like human we and poo now You know It's real we and poo It's not just like It's like real We and Poo

And I just got pissed on It's your own Urine, urine, urine. What, I just say it? Urine. Urine. Why do you say urinal, but urine? Urine.

Urine. Is that how you said? Yeah, you call it urine, but you go to a urinal, that's that odd. So, a man wants said to me on the tube that I have my eyes with a colour of urine, so that's fun. So that's whenever I say urine, that's what I think of, which is like. Your pissy eyes. My pissy eyes. Well, speaking of romance and chat up lines,

That is a... Wait, I... How is she? What is this segue? To today's guest? Um, that, that was... Honestly, I'm going to see myself out because that was spectacular. That's your best work.

Thank you so much. It's, it's a career, Al. It's a career. Stunow. Thank you. So, today's interview peaked Alex's interest first. And I'm sure loads of you followed Merrin's story of how she went on 28 dates in 28. days in New York and um we had to talk about it because that's a lot it's a lot of dates but she was

great it's a lot of dates in not that many days and in New York as well which kind of the dating scene fascinates me there anyway and we get into that um so fun fascinating I hope you guys enjoy it too hi Marin thanks so much for joining us from New York no less yes New York City yeah Emma and I are very excited to talk to you. We have a lot to talk about because you've had a busy, I was going to say busy year, but actually you just had like one really, really busy month. Yeah, one really busy month. And then it really hasn't stopped, though. It's like kind of been crazy this whole time. Amazing. Can't wait to talk about it all. Can you explain to us what you did in the month of February? Of course. So I was, I'm 31. I was painfully single and I kept dating my toxic

co-workers. And so on January 31st, I told the world, and by the world, I had like 5,000 followers on TikTok. I was like, I'm going to go on 28 dates in February. In February, this past year was only 28 days long. And it became a viral sensation in New York City specifically. It did go, the reach was global, but it was really kind of like a New York City cult moment. And yeah, I went on 28 dates in February. And by the end of the month, I was featured in Bustle, Bloomberg, and I went from having 80 followers on my hobby Instagram to having like 38K, and then it's continued to build from there. And at the end of the month, were you absolutely exhausted? That's my first question. I was really tired. I was mentally, emotionally,

physically exhausted. And financially, I imagine, but we'll get on to that. Yeah, that too. I bought so many Uber, so much makeup, so many different outfits. Oh, my God, do the outfits. Yeah, the outfits. it's shit that's like that's a that's a that's a that's a lot of looking nice yeah it was too much honestly okay so you did it you so you were dating your co-workers and it was all a bit toxic yeah they were younger yeah they were like 25 and i'm 31 like what was they doing so you're like I'm going to prioritize dating yes and this is how I'm going to do it I mean talk about throw yourself in at the deep end I'm an extremist like I've heard like there are so many people who do like a month long challenge of like fitness a month long challenge of dieting whatever and I was like I'm

going to just change like turn that same concept but for dating was the plan to find somebody to be with like long term like it's like you like the logic that you got to kiss a lot of frogs before you find your prints yes so the logic was it's a numbers game but it wasn't 28 first dates it was 28 dates in February so I was like I might date number one fall in love and then just go on 28 dates with the same guy. There were no rules. And so one of the early guys, I call him date number two, I thought he was going to be my husband. Like, he was like telling me things like, this is going to be our story. And so like I was very seriously and intentionally dating. Yes, it was like a bit of like a media or attention grab. But at the same time, I was trying to find my

person. It was just an unconventional journey to do it. And what happened with guy number two? I know. I'm intrigued. Yeah. So he and I were like very serious for like he basically loved on me. So we went on five days in like five days. So like we saw each other. We met each other and then saw each other every single day. And then he had business in Miami. I don't know if he ever really did have business in Miami because I later found out that he either had a wife or a girlfriend. Oh, wow. Yeah. So I found a bunch of women's clothing in his apartment like hair extensions. Like there were just like too many incremental. things and then I went to the internet and I was like how do you find out if someone's actually married and he was I think watching what I was posting and then we like never spoke again yeah oh my god well shit yeah yeah every twist and turn that could happen to somebody and dating happened to me in 28 days oh my god okay so number two is off the card but can we talk about like did the guys that you were going of the people I don't know if it was all guys did the people that

you were going on dates with, know that they were part of this experiment? Not at the beginning. So that was also very stressful because I started to catch feelings for these guys. And I then had to tell them the truth because it kept getting every day that passed, it kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And so with date number two, he found out because on our third date, he was like, I really like you. I can really see this going somewhere. And then I was like, shit, I have to tell him.

now because if I like actually fall in love with because he was a hedge fund guy right he has a full life that's built out and so I was kind of like he might not be into this because there's a lot of private people in New York City they don't want everything aired on social media um which I respect and I understand and so I felt like I owed it to him to tell him early on and I was so nervous and I was like why did I do this challenge I'm like self sabotaging my own love life but I told myself that I'm not going to stop doing the challenge for any of the guys because it's only a month and this is who I am. And so if they couldn't accept that early on,

I had to come to terms with like maybe that they're not my person. There was another guy called advertising guy. And actually I kind of blew him off because I like saw some red flags that I wasn't into. And then all of a sudden he saw our date on it, our date on Instagram. And then he reached back out to me. And he was like, oh my God, this is so funny. I can't believe this is our date. He's like, could I please get another chance?

And so then I did give him another chance. And so early days, nobody knew. And then the guys started to find out organically. And then by the end of the challenge, it was kind of weird because it went so viral that I feel like every single guy that was asking me out was asking me out via Instagram DM. And they already knew about the challenge. Oh my God. So they wanted like their time in the spotlight. They want that.

That was a problem though. Because there was some cloud. There was some cloud chasing. Yeah. Yeah. Because I mean, I don't know why you would like they, you would actively, you know, reach out. and they obviously wanted to like read about it the next day oh they loved it and the dates kept elevating too because they would get like recaps of their dates and so guys were now taking me on

scavenger hunts I was going like everything like beyond like the plans that they would come up with because guys are competitive yeah do you feel very special now I mean I did at the end I thought I was a princess like the way that I was being treated and like it was like a lot of like de-list like celebrity not celebrities they were like honestly like reality TV people looking back I was so dumb because like none of them were looking for something real with me they were looking for like to get a little piece of my spotlight because it was so viral during the month of February that's great okay so 28 dates how many men was that so 15 men total okay 15 men total I went on a lot of second third fourth dates I had about five guys where I was like I could maybe see a

future with them and that just goes to show that it truly is a numbers game yeah because I went from having a roster of zero to be like I was dating like a writer a lawyer a comedian a hedge fund guy and I felt very serious with all of them like they were taking me on third fourth date oh my god okay this is like blow my mind but it's interesting I don't know hearing it like a roster so my best friend it drives me up the wall right because she never has an empty like I always just describe it like her hob like she never has an empty hob like there's always like there's someone in the main hop but then there's always people on like the back burner and when the main guy I already know Al you'll know who I'm talking about but when the main guy goes she literally

was zero minutes in pulling someone up from the back and she's like up you come yeah and it always I always say to him like this time we are not going to have a fucking B team player in the top spot because that's what keeps happening is we keep ending up with these like B rate guys in the top spot not because they deserve it because if they were good enough you never would have put them on the back burner in the first place right they'd have been so amazing that they'd have blown everybody else up the water but so the fact

that you were happy to have them there for a year means that you don't care about them that much so they shouldn't have come up anyway sure enough sure enough they were not a rate players but I wonder with that do you feel like when you're dating like five guys

is it like when you're dating five guys that you actually really like do you feel a bit like you don't want to ruin anything with one of them in case? Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. No, I mean, basically I was obsessed with date number two from the beginning.

So basically halfway through my challenge or like five days into my challenge, he was like, I have to go away for a month long work project to Miami. And so I like, in the back of my mind, I was like, I'm going to keep going on my dates. But date number two is like the person who's like the A player.

He's the one who I want to end up with. And then as he started to exhibit different sketchy behaviors, that's when I started to pull up. Like, for example, like the comedian was definitely like a B player. I never took him seriously. And then all of a sudden, like date number two was out of the picture. So then I brought him forward. But I never really liked him that much in the first place because if I had, he would have been my A player the whole time. Yeah.

Can it ever be like a slow burn kind of thing where you don't initially, there's not like this huge chemistry, like initial attraction. but if you and like someone like number two would win out like straight away no no fight but if you like I always think if you give people like that a chance to be play like sometimes does it does it slow burn into something but obviously not no I think I think that's a good point I think that honestly there was one guy that I didn't give a chance because he wasn't as flashy as the other guys but he was honestly probably the most like wholesome and he had a good job like he had and he was really attractive like but he was just like a little less flashy and i think that what i learned from that is i'm a very like anxious attachment style and so i like to go for

like very like love balmy flashy guys at the beginning who then pull back and like play games with me because i like that like up and down roller coaster i'm trying to move away from it and i'm doing the self work but looking back like the most stable guy was the one who i didn't even give a chance Like we went on like two, three days and I was like, sorry, you're not flashy enough. Really? Yeah. So like I think that like I also learned a lot about myself during this challenge

because I don't think that the person who is like, they say like the hot burn like always goes out the fastest. And that's why they say the slow burn is better because it actually might have longevity. And people are shy at the beginning. I feel like this is like the definition of it's not them, it's me. because it's like there gets to a point where there's so many that you can probably take like something of of a date quite personally like if you're just going on one date and and they don't like you I guess you can take it quite personally because it's like well what did I do wrong and blah blah blah but when you've got so much so many dates it's like you haven't really got time to pick apart what that guy didn't like about you because you can literally just move to the next guy and it's like less about less in your feelings with it did that has that been helpful for your dating going forward is that been like a part of it yeah i think that moving forward like i'm so happy i did the 28th

in february but i won't uh burn through men so quickly i think that i need to slow down and be a little bit more thoughtful and intentional um because i think you're right in that i was just acting and i wasn't really reflecting and so you know it didn't work out with any of those guys and i do think it was partially me but i also think it was like a little bit of unluckiness because like who like what if date number two hadn't been married like what if he would have just been like a normal guy that I hit it off with you know what I mean like I think a lot of people don't talk about this but I think dating is a numbers game but it's also a little bit of luck yeah you can't be too hard on yourself you have to keep it light and you

have to like you know practice self-love because yeah like obviously every human is flawed no one's perfect but a lot of imperfect people find their person I guess the fact that it it's a numbers game is like a double-edged sword because in one way it's like reassuring because you know if you want to find someone that's your answer numbers just keep at it and then in another way it's kind of discouraging because it's like if you're someone that doesn't enjoy dating and meeting new people and having to like put yourself through the first date thing then that's really discouraging right yeah it's a lot of energy and I think that it does sometimes get discouraging but I think it's also like

last night I had a mixer and I had people come up to me and they're like no guys are talking to me like what should I do and I'm like just act like you're practicing like don't take yourself too seriously and start like going up and approaching guys but I think that also like anything like people want the fairy tale right but anything in life that's worth having does take effort like if you want to have you know that job or if you want to have any any goal or outcome it takes effort and so yeah of course there's always those people who are lucky but if you're unlucky in love like create your own luck and put in the effort for what you want and like I think that's why I did the 28 dates because I was like I could go my whole 30s without finding a husband because I'm not prioritizing my love life I prioritize I prioritize everything else else but my love life I think that's really interesting and I think as well it speaks to like a gendered thing because I feel like we've grown up very much with like the fairy tale of like Cinderella and snow white and sleeping beauty and like all of these Disney princesses who are courted and then court. And it is very laissez-faire.

They sit there. They wait in their tower. They wait in their house with all the seven dwarves. Like they wait where they wait and all the locked upstairs in there. Like actually, really, really, really dark. And they just sit there and then they just wait for a guy to come and save them and get them. And that kind of like has felt like it's been perpetuated through. chick flicks do everything where it's like let the guy come to you don't come on too strong

don't be desperate don't whatever and there is this like trope that comes with women who do prioritize it but like you say of course you should if that's what your goal is of course you should but it did you find that you were challenged by these men or by any of the reaction online with regard to that did you feel like you were being called I don't know any insinuation that you were pushing too hard for this maybe there was a desperation or anything like did you feel like you were getting negativity in that regard 1,000% like I was told by so many people like don't don't talk about wanting marriage don't talk about wanting kids like it's so weird how women are not allowed to own what we want but if a man said hey I want marriage and kids

everyone would be like oh my god that's amazing I know how cute how cute that's amazing he's ready like everyone's like hard eyes towards him and a woman says it and it's like oh my god you're desperate like i hate a double standard and i'm such a feminist at heart where it's like there are all these women who want the real thing but they they feel like they're caught between a rock and a hard place because they want something but then they're told to do nothing and you know i don't think that's fair and i think that the right guy will appreciate your individuality you know i interview so many people on my podcast and I talk to different authors and there's people who are like the women from the rules who say do absolutely nothing he has to pursue you like be hard to get all these

things I don't know if I necessarily agree with that I think that it's okay to own yourself I think people respect confidence more than anything I mean my dating history is very sparse I've only had two of boyfriends and, like, dated, like, a few guys in between. They've both been, like, really long-term relationships. But when I met my now husband, he was full on, but, like, not in a love bond way, but just, like, very straightforward. I'm very, like, I want this. I'm not playing games.

Like, let's see if, you know, and I don't want you to play games either. Let's just see if this works as it is. And it was, it was not, I mean, I hadn't really, obviously hadn't been on that many dates. but it wasn't rules that I knew because I was like, no, but I can't be straightforward and I can't tell you what I want to. Like, I have to, you know, play it cool and like treat me and keep them keen. And actually, it was so refreshing to like put that down and be like, okay, well, this is how I feel too. And there we go. I love that. So many of the guys who are like bold enough to come approach you in the bar, they're going to be able to approach anyone. It's oftentimes

the ones that like are like maybe a little bit less inclined. those are the ones that you might actually want. I don't know if that makes sense because there's these guys who are slick and they're swab and they're womanizers and they can go up to anyone. And so it's like a lot of times those are the guys who women get hurt with

but if you're sitting around not being proactive that's the guy that you're probably going to end up with. God, that's such a good point. That is such a good point. Wow. Yeah. I mean... That's blowing my mind. So it's like go like say hi to guys. It's like the guy who's like maybe

like watching the sports on the TV with his friends, say hey to him. Like keep it light. It doesn't have to be aggressive. But like that's the one you want, the one that's not like kind of you want that aloof guy. And like throughout the history of humanity, I feel like women kind of pick the man.

And then she kind of is an opportunist and like puts herself in the path and like, you know, starts the conversation. And so don't wait for the man to pick you because then you're going to end up with the wrong guy. God, it's so true. I love that. It's so passive to just be picked.

And it doesn't. And I have literally got no authority to speak on this because I met my husband when I was 15. So I have no authority to speak on this with. But listening to you speak there, it is so true that it's like it. And again, it's such a perpetuation of this like fairy tale shit that you're going to get picked.

And I remember, I think I remember asking my dad once, my grandparents met. And it was like, my grandma, she wasn't dancing with anyone. And he was like, well, I'll dance with you because you're not dancing with anyone else. And then they end up getting married. I love that. But we really romanticised that. And we're like, oh, like, he took a dance on the lonely one.

But actually, and it's nice and it worked. And it worked. And that's so lovely. But actually, it's, it is kind of sad that we do romanticize that because it is, it is romantic and it is nice. Obviously, it's lovely. Like, and they were, they were in love and it was lucky. But it's still, it's, it's, we've kept that. very old school like go and find the one sitting by herself and take her man and then you will

have your wife and we kind of bring that forwards now totally into a world where actually it's we're completely different because women aren't sitting by themselves women have got their own shit going on all the time totally and like we live in a very like supposedly egalitarian society right where you know people are looking for like that 50 50 dynamic I don't know if I fully believe in it like as in like I think that the women always ends up doing a lot more work anyways now that we are both working and then also like the household labor falls on the women a lot of times and the child labor and all of that but what I'm trying to say is like if we're supposed to like now be in this egalitarian society like why can't the woman feel empowered you know and it

it becomes all very like superficial too and then people are you know getting all of this plastic surgery and that's fine like do what you want to do but they're like they're not addressing the direct problem which is like they want a relationship and they're doing all of these peripheral things right and it's like no like you're fine the way you are you just need to put yourself out there more you don't need to go and lose 10 pounds you don't need to go and do all these you know things to make yourself better you're already good how you are you just need to focus on your dating life if that's what you want you know yes okay I really like that I'm seeing like I feel like I'm seeing a new perspective on dating speaking of like speaking of like

like guys coming up to you in bars and stuff. Were all of these dates, were they all through online, were they all through apps or were some of them through like in-person meetings? So during my 28th date on February, all of my dates were via like either mutual friends setting me up or the apps or Instagram DM. I do meet guys at the bar too sometimes, but like I'm 31 so I don't like drink and party as much as I used to.

and I don't necessarily like want to meet a guy at the bar like maybe if it's like just like because I'm not saying everyone who goes to the bar is like bad or whatever but it's like I used to meet guys when I was out at 2 a.m and I'd like make out with them and then I would like end up dating them or something and I just like don't really live that same lifestyle as much anymore and so I would like to you know it would be lovely to meet I work at a we work now and like I meet guys all day every day so it'd be lovely to meet someone in that scenario um the last guy I was dating. I actually met in person. But I'm such like a, because I'm like a little shy. Like I prefer the app. Does it kind of give you a level of anonymity or is it more?

It's just straight to the point. Okay. Okay. You know, you both know what you're there for. It's all very clear. And like I already know that they're attracted to me. They already know that I'm attracted to them. And so now let's just like see if we like vibe in person. Whereas like I feel like I'm so bad at picking up like my friends will be like oh my god mar that guy really likes you and i just i don't know if it's like my minnesota humbleness but i can never pick up when a guy likes me in person and so i just always put people in the friend zone and so that's why i like the app i don't know i just like never want to assume okay that makes sense that makes sense there's like in a group like a shared understanding when you've like met some on the app yeah totally it's it's like

strikes me as like unexpected that you would describe yourself as a shy person because I actually can't think of anything like that would require more confidence than not only doing this but then sharing it online as well because considering everything we've just spoken about the fact that you are as a woman deciding what she wants and then going out and getting it no less like I imagine that the response to that and I found whenever I do anything that any man might interpret as me getting a bit too big for my boots on the internet like they're very quick to smack me back down and i was wondering if you had any of that sort of reaction on on the on the sharing it side of things where you had people i don't know well not not criticizing it but people knocking your confidence if you

still felt like you wanted to stick with it even as you were on the app and yeah i so i think we have such a good group of girlfriends in new york city and like someone my girlfriends are like PR people, some of them are in the entertainment industry. And so they're like, whenever you're doing something meaningful, you know that it's like meaningful because there's haters. And so I always interpreted the haters as like, I'm doing something out here. You know what I mean? Like I was like I was combating ageism. People think that if you're past the age of 30 and you're not married, that no one picked to you and that you're expired and you should basically like go and die like you know I'm like figuratively like metaphorically but like I so I was combating

ageism of course people were commenting on my looks like am I that pretty like every that was discourse on Twitter like all these different elements were being discussed and it made me have to like double down on myself and be like no like I'm great the way I am like you know I'm going to be for I'm going to be for some people I'm not going to be for everyone but yeah I definitely like experience you know the trolls but I also think that I'm 31 and I have a mission and I am serving this community of people who are coming to me and you know seeing my seeing themselves in my story and so when I'm standing up for myself I also feel like I'm standing up for those people as well and so I like I can take some punches and I'm going to throw some I'm going to throw some

punches back too I'm not just going to sit here and be like turn the other cheek like I'll I'll coin a sassy response, but I think having my story out there is so important because it's like you see all these influencers or dating influencers who are like 22 in sharing their journey. And being 22 in dating is very different than being 31 in dating. And so I kind of wanted to step into this empty white space that I needed for myself and to be that for other people. But yeah, the internet, like Twitter, especially, like I'm not even on Twitter. And so I have friends who are on Twitter. And they would be like, hey, girl, just so you know you're going pretty viral with like this like nasty troll guy. But then there were also people who were in the VC

and finance like some of these like top thought leaders throughout the finance world were also retweeting me and being like this is really cool and interesting. And so I had like positive media and I had negative media, and I just had to endure both. And did you find that it could, you know, you said that it was like this space that wasn't really filled, you know, people dating in their 30s, which is obviously like a different experience today in your 20s. Did you find that you sharing opened up like a,

allowed for like a network of people to sort of come to you and share their own stories? Yeah. So that was like a big part of my growth because, yeah, I would show my like 30 second date blogs. But then I would always, like, I had people writing me from all over the world and, like, Australia, like, every country you can think of, people would, um, DM me and be like, hey, because of you, I started dating again.

And people, yeah, it was really cool. And people would ask me questions and we would do check-ins where we'd be like, hello from Japan. I'm dating over here. Like, hello from India. So it became like this big global network of women who were like, like, coming together and discussing modern dating and like I don't like I don't have a firm stance on the right way to date and so we were like exploring these different nuances of dating together like who should pay on the first date like all of the like red flags green flags dating safety like all these topics

as I was going through my journey different discussion points and topics would come up and then like as a group and as a community we kind of like sift through them together Can I ask about some of those things that you and your community, like, kind of landed on in terms of the red flags, the green flags, but also first and foremost, paying? Where did you land with that, among the 15 men? Yeah, so I know that European culture is, like, maybe a little different to American culture. And that also was discussed because, like, there was, like, a lot of people in Europe being, like, it's just standard that we split the bell. in the U.S., I don't offer to split the bill on the first date if the guy has asked me out. Some guys say, oh, I like that.

I pay attention to that. But my mindset is, like, if you ask me on a date, like, thank you so much. But, like, you're hosting me. And, like, I'm not going to make it weird and, like, fake grab for my wallet or ask to split the bill. So I know that can be controversial to some people, but I definitely am anti. And I expect the guy to pay for probably the first five dates just because I need to, to see he's invested we live in i live in new york city and so hookup culture is rampant here and it's very transact everything's very transactional and so a way for me to gauge if a guy is truly investing in me is

does he pick up the check automatically does he have a generous spirit i'm paying for my makeup my hair the pink tack like i feel like that's the least he can do how do you guys feel about it what are your thoughts i don't know as you were saying it my tummy was like oh because i yeah because i'm so awkward. I'm like, I'm so, I'd be like, I'll pay it. It's fine. Thanks for coming. You're so cute. But I don't know. I mean, I get like, I feel like I'm by nature probably more of somebody that would split it. But maybe actually for the same reason as what you were saying about the transactional thing. I guess maybe I wouldn't feel, I wouldn't want to feel like I was being I don't know because it's nice to feel like you're being spoiled, but then you don't want to feel like

you're being bought. So I actually, I mean, I'd probably want to split it because I haven't worked that out yet. But all power to anyone doing whatever. Yeah. I would always, I always wanted to split it because it just made me feel then like I didn't owe them anything. Like I was not in debt to them in any kind of way. And it was, it was just very much like you could, if you wanted to part, you could part on terms that felt very much mutual. I don't know. Does that make sense? Like I just, I don't owe them anything. It just felt I challenge that because your time is valuable. And I was practicing the 90-day rule, which is I wasn't sleeping with anyone for 90 days. Steve Harvey came up with that philosophy.

I had just read Steve Harvey's book. And he was like, don't have. He's from a different generation. Okay. So like I'm not telling people to do this. But in that moment, I was testing it out on my own love life. And so I wasn't sleeping with any of these guys. But just because a guy buys you dinner doesn't mean you owe him shit.

And I was trying to normalize that notion. Like you gave him your time. time is valuable. Like, it's not, like, you know what I mean? It's not, it doesn't have to be deeper than that. 100%. And also, if it works for you, then it works for you. Like, I find this a very irritating part of feminism where we all have to feel completely aligned on whatever it is. Because it's what you were saying before as well about like the 50-50 division. It's like, it isn't. You know, I, with all the will in the world, like, I've just had a baby. It's not a 50-50 split. try, I've got the best husband in the world, but it's not 50-50 just because the world

isn't set up for it to be 50-50. And you win some and you lose some and you also have what matters to you. And if it's like that's what matters to you, then that's great. And if that you'll find a person that aligns with you on that. And that's great. But I think it's really cool that you've been able to have this discourse with all these other women and you've disagreed on certain points. And it's still like, okay, well, that's fine. Yeah. Because honestly, like what works for me doesn't work for everyone and I also think it's situational like there have been dates where I've offered to split because the energy was maybe off or like you know what I mean and like you have to like things can be situational too and I think so many people in dating they want to just

make it black and white and it's not black and white it's very individual and so like I don't think that there's a one size fits all like you're saying what would the other like big things on a first date that you like that were big greens or big reds um i would say a big green would just be the guy of making a plan um like setting a time day in place um and then i always like when a guy is on a date with me if he wants to see me again i like him to tell me before the date ends or to text me like that night and be like thanks for the great time i love to see you again i really want the guy to like step up and again like living in such a new york there's seven women to one man so yeah so whenever there's more women than men in a city or in a place that's when hookup culture

happened and when the opposite happens there's more long-term relationships because when there's a scarcity of women men want to quickly lock one down but when there's nothing but women men have options and they can do whatever they want. And so for me, it's like I need to get that investment from the man in many ways. And I need him to be communicative. I need him to plan good dates. I need him to pick up the check because, again, I'm not going to split the bill with this guy. If he's going on seven dates, well, this sounds hypercritical coming from me who went on 28 dates in 28 days.

But you know what I mean? There are men who just, and also a lot of these men, they take us, they're planning the date. so they're taking you to the fanciest restaurant. I didn't pick that restaurant he did. And so it's not fair for me to go to a Michelin Star restaurant and then pay half the bill if that's not my budget just because he planned that spot. And I always tell men, if you don't want to pay,

go to the park and get a bottle of wine and some cheese. Like you don't have to plan the fanciest date. Women are appreciative, just a thoughtful then. That's an interesting dynamic, the 7 to 1. I really didn't know that. That's crazy. and I do hear a lot about like you said the hookup culture that I don't I mean me and you want the best people to like speak on this but I don't think that's what it's like I don't think that's what it's like here in London I think it's more civilised than that or like it goes goes more quickly to like relationships than that but I've heard that in New York it's it's pretty wild oh I think a lot of Londoners have a lot of sex and I feel like someone should tell you that. No, I know. I know. But I mean, like, and I hear that like, well, actually,

times have probably changed. Fuck, I sound so old. But like, we, like, there in New York, it's like, it's normal to be dating, like, loads of people at once. Whereas, I don't think, at least, like, I don't think it's quite the same. I think also New York is filled up full of people who are maximizers. So they're always looking for. for the next best thing because it's such a hustle, excuse me, it's such a hustle culture here, that's what I'm trying to say, that like, it's like full of like ambitious people who are always like, I could do better.

I could maximize this experience. I could find somebody who has a little bit longer legs or whatever. And I don't know. It's just like trying to survive in that type of mentality. You have your guards up. And I think that's why I have different rules for not rules, but like different like guidelines that I, adhere to just because my guard is definitely up in New York specifically.

Yeah, it sounds like it has to be. That's a weird dynamic. Yeah. And I'm also sex positive, by the way. I'm not trying to be like wait 90 days. I'm not like puritanical. But I just also like have so many women who feel like they owe men sex by date number two.

And I'm trying to change that narrative. Have sex when you're comfortable and you trust the guy. Like build an emotional connection and then that's when it should lead to a physical connection, right? But so many people start. a physical connection and that's a little backwards there was as you were speaking there's a book I read earlier I think it's called book lovers I was looking at my bookshelf about and she was talking about dating in New York and she was touching it's a fiction book but she touched on I think

it's book lovers by emily O'Leary I'll fact check myself but I think and it touches on a lot of what you were saying about how ambitious people how New York breeds ambition and because of that dating is competitive and it's very like it feels more like an endurance sport than perhaps anywhere else. It sounds brutal. Yeah, it does have anything we'd thrive there at all. I think we might be spinsters serving together.

Yeah, for sure. With our dogs. You guys are both so chill. I feel like you guys would do well here that too. You're both gorge. Should we ditch our husbands and go to York and see how well we do? Yeah, give it a go.

I just want to try it. I just want to know how I'd better. You'd both do more than anything. You'd both do well. That's very nice. Thank you. Right. See you later, guys.

I'm out of here. But, no, I want to talk about the sex thing. Is that something that came up or comes up? I don't know with the dating as it was, people knowing the challenge that you were doing. Did it come up with men, with their insinuations? Is that part of the red flag thing? Or was it fairly, because again, we're not great dates with me now, clearly.

Is that like a lingering thing? Or do you have to say it or is it unspoken? Like, how does that work within the dates that you did or within the dates that you do now? Yeah. I mean, I probably overshare. And so during my 28 date rule, I would like have, you know, two two drinks. And I'd be like, by the way, I'm doing this 90 day rule. And I would like just basically like set up the expectation. I don't think you have to do that. But I think that in any dynamic, like good communication is healthy. And I think that men do expect sex fairly quickly. Like I think that if you're not having it by the second or third date, they're kind of. of like what the fuck and I definitely had a few guys like get creepy where like they were like please like date number two even told me he was committed to me um I had a guy tricked me into going back to his house to let out his dog and his dog wasn't even there like like these guys

are thirsty and like they're entitled to it and I don't like that I don't like somebody who thinks that they deserve my body just because they bought me a drink like that's not my vibe at all and I was telling um I was telling Alex like basically like I'm all about like have like a stable emotional connection and then start to explore the physical it's not like it's not that hard it's not that complicated but if a guy can't be consistent like if he can't consistently communicate to you if he can't consistently plan dates if you don't feel safe talking about your seek not your deepest secrets but if you don't feel comfortable talking with him about your family or your quirks or whatever then probably you shouldn't sleep with him but if you do

but if you do feel comfortable with all those things and he is consistent then there's no timeline like just like let it flow because i also think that when you withhold sex then it becomes all about the sex and it's not supposed to be all about the sex it's supposed to be all about you building a genuine connection because if you had stuck to the 90 day thing i was just trying to do the maths and if you had gone on 28 dates of 28 guys may would have been huge oh right like all right guys let's go crazy well my my hope was that i was like gonna you know maybe have one like i thought i was definitely going to end up in a relationship like a serious relationship after the month because i had so many connections that i thought could possibly turn into something um but yeah

i mean may could have been really exciting but by may i had ended things with everyone wow that's disappointing i guess it is it is because now i feel like a born again virgin like i'm like hello that's what the plan yeah because yeah like i would like to get some action over here yeah are you dating now so i am um so i'm like such a hustler in that like i'm going against my own philosophy but because this whole opportunity happened i now have a business where i do you know like I basically am doing like match making I'm doing all these different things and I have multiple businesses based upon my platform um so I've been really prioritizing my businesses again over my love life which is like again I need to get it straight but I also need to survive I need money so

it's like I have to take care of myself as well um but yeah I'm going on like I'm trying to go on one date per week I think that's like a little bit more attainable um and more and more sustainable um for dating and yeah i'm meeting a lot of great guys but i like always the goal for either like the older guy or the younger guy and i'm trying to date guys in my actual age range like i'm 31 i should be dating like a 32 to 35 year old sorry sorry to jump around actually i was just i was just thinking back to your february um were they all like nighttime dates like drinking because you must have been so like done in with drinking as well oh my god i gained 10 pounds like Like I was like, it was like a whole thing.

Um, so I was so over drinking. I just like needed to detox for a few months. And also it was like not traumatic, but like so much happened in such a short amount of time that I needed to step back and process it all. Um, but yeah, I did mostly nighttime dates. I did go on like one or two coffee dates. Um, but most of them were in the evening to be honest. And then there was like a few lunchtime dates. I definitely recommend don't start with too many nighttime dates

because you want to know if you can talk to somebody in the light of day. So for example, one of the guys was called The Lawyer. And he and I were like, he was like talking to me. He was like, yeah, I would totally get married in a year. Like we were like so into each other. And then because we always got drunk on our dates and he like took me to the fanciest places, the coolest clubs. And then one day we went on a sober lunch date.

That was, it was weird. And I was like, oh, wait, like this is not my person. that's actually a really good piece of advice save your time and do a day date early or a coffee date early so what now okay so for anyone listening who is struggling with dating like really wants to meet someone but is jaded let's say with online dating and you know they've they've kind of done their fair share or they're like in a rut at the moment do you have like what what's your best bit of advice yeah for that i think honestly like you're just have the mentality that you could be one date away from meeting your person but you

have to keep going um i always believe in like changing up the environment so if you're on for example tinder and tinder's not working well for you there's a million new dating apps out there try a different dating app try like refreshing your photos change your prompts up like just change things up after friends to set you up like just do whatever you're doing right now that has you jay or in a rut, do the opposite thing to kind of shock your system into a new thought process. Love is not easy and that's why everyone's so obsessed with it. Like some people are lucky. Not everyone is, but you have to just keep going and just know that your person could be

around the corner. So you have to turn the corner. You have to keep going. I love that. Oh, I love that. You have to turn the corner. Yeah, I like that. That's good.

And you'd say in terms of frequency, like one a week, one day a week is a good thing to like keep yourself to, to hold yourself to. Yeah. So now I do dating consulting and I'm like when I'm in the when I'm in the power seat, I always like I get like really strict with people. And I'm like you need to be going on one date per week. It could be with the same guy. You don't need a whole roster. Like I'm actually trying to slow down and focus on like one or two people at a time. You can have a roster. I would say don't. have a roster more than three people because you also need to have balance you need to continue to work out you need to continue to see your family and friends continue to like do all your career stuff like so have balance but you still need to prioritize I would also say like if you're on the dating up like at least twice per week you should be swiping and communicating with the people and the connections you have and don't swipe and like connect with like 50 people at once because then you'll burn out like you have to do things in like a sustainable way

and just know, I truly do believe that it is a number of games with a combination of like being mindful and reflecting and, you know, being self-aware. Amazing. Thank you so much. This has been so interesting. I have loved this episode. Thank you so much. You guys are the best vibes.

Like, I want to be your best friends. Like, you seem so fun. Oh, good. Yeah, I will. We would love at a best day in New York. honestly come to new york i'll host you guys like let me know when you're in town we'll have our sex in the city moment we'll go get some cosmos it'll be a whole thing sold amazing i can't wait should i delete that is part of the ACAS creator network