Should I Delete That? - I’m More Than ‘Plus-Size’: Callie Thorpe

Episode Date: August 11, 2024

In this week's podcast, Em and Alex are joined by writer and influencer Callie Thorpe. Callie's content focusses on travel and wellbeing, but it didn't start out this way. Callie is plus-size, and over the years has been scrutinised for her appearance: namely over a 'controversial' Cosmopolitan magazine cover where she was featured. Callie talks about recovering from the backlash of the cover, the fear of letting women down by stepping out of the limelight and how she rebuilt her confidence, brick by brick. Callie explains how she rediscovered herself by living a joyful existence, and why she wants to share this joy online.Follow Callie on Instagram @calliethorpeJoin Callie's newsletter, Just Good Things, here: https://calliethorpe.substack.com/Follow us on Instagram @shouldideletethatEmail us at [e-mail] by Daisy GrantMusic by Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I just felt like I was letting lots of women down that I had always spoken about and I felt really sad because I had let this get to me but I just realised that I wanted to create a space where I could just be joyful. Hello and welcome back to Should I Delete That? I'm M Clarkson and I'm Alex Light. How are we doing?

I'm good. I'm going to uphold you. I apologize for the audio quality on my side. I'm not turning the air conditioning off. Don't make me. It's so hot. Even I will concede, 38 degrees is a hat-hat.

It was 40 earlier. Ew. It's stunning, but I, like, I'm pregnant. I'm hot. I cannot turn the air conditioning, or I will simply, I will just perish if I turn it off. We can cope. We can cope with the,

with the hum of the aircon to keep you sane because that sounds disgusting how are you have you got anything good bad or awkward for me good bad or awkward um yes my good i mean i'm not looking good right now i literally feel so awful um don't know i just i just i look awful but but my good is that i shouldn't be looking awful okay bear with me i'm going to bring this back around i feel gross i feel like when i at myself in the mirror. I think I talked about this last week. I just don't feel like I know what I, I just don't recognize myself. I just feel gross. And so I went and got my eyebrows done and my eyelashes done. Your eyebrows do look fantastic. I thought that. I can't see your eyelashes

because of the quality of the screen, but they look very good. They look very dark. I will, I will die on Miss Hill. Dark eyebrows are a vibe. Yeah, but I'm, I am quite fair though. So is Cara Delavine. So is Calisi. Yeah, but that's, I don't know who Cali is, but who's Can you see? Amelia, no, Amelia Clark in Game of Thrones, Mother of Dragons. Oh, oh God, yeah, she's well hot. Yeah. They're dark, but the reason that they're so dark is because a couple years ago,

I had microblading, and when it wore off, I don't know if it's just normal or a reaction to my skin, but it went completely orange. So, and it's still there, and I should do something about it, but I don't have it in me to go and have it laser off. I just don't have that in me at all. So my only option is to just dye them. And to just to cover the orange, it has to go, I have to go this dark. So they're quite dark.

But this all sounding like a bad, but it is my good. Maybe it's a bit of both. Good and bad. Good because I've had it done bad because they're not, I still don't, I still look a bit weird. But that's fine. I think you look really beautiful. And I think this brow's really striking. And I will always be team brow.

I would say, perhaps, if anything, maybe you look a little tired, but you got a kid. You just. I do. got we've got so much work going on at the moment like you and I are stressed stressed oh I was going to try and do like a little jazzy ride like stress but not depressed and then I was like you know what I can't I can't speak to that on I don't I can't promise and I was going to say stressed but well dressed but also that's not real like that's not true either so so stressed etc and like Tommy's doing this thing where he just like he used to just wake up in the night but he would go back down

it was just annoying but now he's just awake in the night and there's no going back down and I don't know what to do with him because I'm like I can't go downstairs with you like I'm not waking up at 3 a.m I'm not doing it. The thing is I think you are. I am because there's nothing I can do I'm like what I don't know I literally don't know what else to do with you and he's just like laughing at me and like it's okay if you're like in some kind of discomfort or something like then we'll sort you out like oh my god I'm so sorry are you okay but not I'm not just being alive at 3 a.m. for you to just like laugh at me and blow blood balls and blow raspberries. It's not funny. Like I'm not, I'm not amused. Go to sleep.

It's so annoying. Like, yeah, I mean, I keep, like, yeah, I keep praying. I keep waiting for a little to get better at sleeping. And I didn't come yet. So I'm not the person to come to for hope. But I can say that you will survive it. And you do get oddly used to it. And it's just sort of fine. I just don't feel anyone used to it than I was seven months ago. It still feels extremely painful every single time. 3am's always going to suck. 3am's always going to suck.

Literally, Rale wakes up quite regularly. Like, well, she's always up at like 5. Like 5am's like the time. 5.1, fine. 4.59 and I literally cannot get through the day. It's amazing. No, no, that's. Yeah.

I don't keep a clock by the bed anymore. 100%. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 100% hate it, hate it. Fair enough. Have you got anything good or bad for me? Yeah. I've got good, bad and awkwards. Excellent. Okay. I'll start with an awkward. I feel like we need to pick everybody back up again. So Ollo is like at the best stage ever. Like she's, I never had more fun with a person. Like she's like she's 18 months old now. She's kind of getting the hang of talking and like she can really communicate and she understands everything which is terrifying. and amazing at the same time. I love that. Anyway, yeah, we're communicating. We're just really, like, she's so cool.

She's just the best person I've ever met. Anyway, it's the best age ever, and I'm loving it. The other day, though, I was sitting cross-legged on the bedroom floor, and I was naked, as is my prerogative. And she lay down, she lay down in front of me, like flat on the floor, and tilted her head and looked at my vulva. and just waved and went, hi. What do you mean?

Hi. I love it. What do you think it is? Oh my God, do you think she looks, do you think she looks like a face? She's like, oh my God, how do you have a little person living down there. People and animals.

Oh my God, she thinks it's an animal. She's like, oh, she thinks this is. a beaver I literally I'm so nice I'm not gonna I don't want to make like I don't want to create

an awkward environment surrounding any body part this is you know this is it this is the beginning of the molding of the person play it off don't react

it's cool and I literally tell I was like I am mortified hi absolutely brilliant I love it I'm obsessed

it's devastating Oh my God I'm going for animal I think she's all animal Oh wow Is that you're awkward Or is that you're bad I honestly think it could be both

I actually think it could be your good as well I can't tell which one It's a lot It's awkward My bad It's so superficial My bad Truthfully my bad

Is the state of the country We talked about in Thursday's episode I'm absolutely I'm livid With everything And everyone I'm furious That's my bad

I know On a moral And on a like on an important level on a completely superficial and I'm the worst person in the world, awful. I've been in the sun for a few days and I dyed my hair and spent all that money

like dye my hair to go dark. Yeah. It's got very blonde in the sun. It's just gone all yellow again. It's got a bit blonder, hasn't it? It's just yellow. It looks exactly like it used to. I was like, what?

That's the chlorine in the sun for you, isn't it? I'm so annoyed. I'm literally going to have to, We're going to appointment for the day I get home, be like, can we do it again, please? It's copy and paste. The exact same thing. So annoying. Can you do the same reel?

I'm literally going to, I'm going to do everything. Start up to finish, it's going to be like Groundhog Day. And I'm not going to acknowledge it. I'm just going to do it all again and just see what on earth people think I'm doing. Just gaslight anyone who is confused. I'm not even going to mention it to the hairdresser. I'm going to be like, oh, I'm coming in for a big change. She'll be like, I thought we just had a big change.

You've not seen a change. like this before yeah this is going to be great i've been blonde for 15 years this is going to be massive it's going to be and it's and then we'll start the cycle again it's definitely not as blonde don't but it's a bit bloody yet i'm a i honestly i looked in the mirror this morning i was like alpha oh never mind that happened that didn't happen that new face so annoying and people keep Yeah, me as well, because I haven't put up any new content as I've been here, so people are still commenting on all my content over the last couple weeks,

oh my God, you really suit being brown, love the brown, never go back. Oh, I can't believe you were blonde for so long. You're disgusting with blonde. Cut your head off, it's disgusting. Well, it's back. Oh, I'm sad for you, I'm sorry. Thank you. Anything bad or awkward from your side, apart from...

I've got... My bad, I agree with you. my bad 100% is what's going on it's just like it's literally making when I hit my head on a wall or like I just against someone but the um the like the counter

riots like the protests against what's happening have like restored a little bit of my faith in humanity but it's obviously still there and the prison sentences are helping the convictions are helping as well that's good that's nice to see yeah

yeah nothing like shoving them into an overcrowded prison which they'll probably be released from for good behaviour in about two or three minutes it's so annoying yeah i know i know but like that's on their record forever and that's what they deserve yeah no it's so true this is what being a grown-up is it's just being absolutely furious i know for being the seawords um yeah awkward i have an awkward by proxy and it's by proxy of someone one of our listeners oh god okay so Right. You know, I talk about, I've talked about my cooking journey on the podcast for like literally years now. And I've come a long way with it. And I said this on Instagram. I posted like, okay, so I took two pictures of like two different meals I'd made. Both of them. I was like, this looks so good. Gourmet. I saw them. I thought, give that girl a Michelin star. Call me Gordon, because that is stunning. Nigel. Damn it. I tried. I'm sorry. It was close. Nigella.

Nigella. Nigella. I love it. Nigella. Okay. Well, I was just, I'm skating over it. I was dead proud of it. And I was like, God, they look so good.

Like, I'm going to share it with a little bit about my journey and be like, guys, like, I'm proud of myself, you know? Like, after so long of just being so, like, just fearful of cooking. And when I did cook, like, I'd only do the same, cook the same thing and blah, blah. And like, look how far I've come sharing these photos. And someone replied to it and said, oh my God, Alex, I love you, but that looks so disgusting. What on earth is it? No. And it was the slide where I'd said, like, I'd said, like, after spending so long and I'm

being scared of it and, like, with my eating disorder and stuff, like, I'm so proud of how far I've come. Me genuinely thinking, it looked so good. Like, for me, it looked so good. It was like this ravioli with pumpkin seeds on top. Admittedly, all I'd done is, like, I hadn't made the ravioli. I just like cooked the raviary but I cooked the sauce and I'd like sprinkle the pumpkin seeds on top

and I just thought it looked I thought like presentation 10 10 and I was so horrified to see this so I was like what I think she could tell I was dismayed with my response because she was like I've just read the caption back and I'm really sorry I'm really sorry I'm sure it tasted lovely

oh bless her I was like that's okay the thing is like I'm sure I agree I'm sure it tastes delicious. It's hard to capture the essence of a delicious meal in the photograph. I know, but the sad thing is I thought I'd done it. I thought I captured the essence. Like, I thought I'd done it. I thought, wow, stunning National Geographic for food, you know? Put the flash on. Put the flash on before you photograph your food. I think if you don't put

the flash on, all food looks like prison food. So, um, take, yes, I have a friend who was a food blogger so you hold a sorry excuse me I just dropped everything you can hold your phone upside down don't know if that's strictly speaking necessary but if we're talking about adding garnish you know and whatever because then you've got your angles

you don't necessarily do the upside down you just gets the camera a little closer to the plate and then whack the flash on and it will make the food look better because because I'm so proud of you and I'm not saying she was right at all because she was wrong

No, no, no, no, no, no, but. Apropos of nothing, the flash might help. Okay, okay. Incoming, better photos, incoming. I hear you, I hear you guys, I hear you guys. Look, we can always do better, right? No, I was genuinely really proud of you. Thank you. Thank you. It's huge.

I'm like, and I'm getting better at chopping. Yeah, it's the fact that you're doing it. Like, I am not under, and actually I didn't know it was to do with your eating disorder really. So I feel like terrible because I've taken the shit out of you for a couple of years. But um, but I am just so like I am really proud of you. I think it's really cool. Like learning a new skills as an adult and it's something that's always annoyed you and it comes up like whenever we talk about it or something that's always upset you that you compared yourself to people on the internet who seem to cook all the time and you couldn't

do it. And now you're doing it. I always beat myself with like the can't cook stick. You know, I'm like, you're pathetic you can't cut. With the wooden spoon, the metaphorical wooden spoon. Yeah. I'm proud of you. I love to see it. Okay, fine. Okay, I love this.

I just need better pictures. Okay, sorted. Yeah. Notes taken. Stunning. Nice. Cool. Well, yeah, I have a good, and that's that I'm in France, and I'm having a nice time.

It's not easy being away with HG, to be honest with you. This is the first time I've traveled, really like the Isle of Man. count because it feels like home because it's where my mom's from um this is the first time i've been like like away for like a holiday you know like a week um and like while i've been pregnant i didn't do it when i was pregnant with arlo um like again like we've been to ireland for the weekend but it's like that's alex's family and like the isle of man like family's okay because you can kind of say to everyone hey can you do me a bagel and like and then go to bed but so i was a little but nervous coming here. I was like, what did do? French

bagels? They do, but it's fine. But I bought my heel shakes with me. Okay. Yeah, I bought my shale shakes. I bought these M&S jelly babies, which are literally the only thing I'm like consistently thriving on. Like, I just need sugar. My sugar

gets bad. I'm like so poorly. So I've got like Coca-Cola, my hule shakes, and those jelly babies, diet of champions. Love that. And yeah, and I've missed dinner every night. Like I've had to go to bed with Arlo at six because I don't feel well but I've actually been able

to do more in the days like I went in the sea and I felt so good for going in the sea I actually didn't even feel sick and I don't know what it was I don't know if it was like feeling weightless or like I don't know what it was

if I felt like the sea was moving so I don't know and it like counterbalanced me I just felt really good and it was the first time I felt good in ages I was like I'm okay I'm okay so it was really nice anyway so I feel so nice

like such a weird horrible relief maybe you could just go in the sea like maybe you could just live in there until you leave yeah yeah yeah it's a little wet and i get a little tired you could be yeah you could get like a little like a little like a little water caravan you know you know what a boat a boat a little water caravan you get a boat i'm fine how do we anchor you in a little caravan but yes a boat we never like we don't lose you forever um no i'm good and i'm like Yeah, it's not, obviously, as you know, holidaying with a baby is, like, not that easy. So whatever.

But within how sick I am, I'm having, I've, I've been really nervous to go away because I was leaving, you know, I can barely survive at home. So I just didn't know how I was going to do it. But mentally, I feel really good. So that's good. Yeah. And it's like, it's three minutes to six here. And I will literally be going to bed in about 33 minutes.

And I can't. Divine. I know. I, oh my God, I might go to bed. I might go to bed at like, eight. Oh, my God, let's go to bed. Oh, I love that. Literally, I would love to.

Let's just go to bed. Okay, great. For everybody else, it's Monday morning and we've got an interview for you. Yeah. Oh, we've got a really, really great interview with you today. Kelly Thorpe, who we talked about on the Thursday's last week's Thursday episode. We literally, we talked to her for about an hour before she came and an hour after she left. We absolutely love her.

She's a total, like, ray of sunshine. But the topic is quite, the topic is quite heavy and quite serious. And I guess we should mention up front that there's like a lot of like fat phobia that we, we discuss in this just in case that's like anyone's feeling particularly vulnerable around that at the moment. But an amazing episode with Callie and we absolutely love her. We hope you really enjoy it. Hello, Callie. Hello. Oh, welcome to the podcast.

Oh, thanks for having me. I'm very excited. Are you? Yeah. We are. I'm actually thrilled. Are you? Yeah, deeply thrilled.

Oh, God. This is probably a weird way to open, actually. In fact, it is a really weird way to open, but I live vicariously through you. Stop. Your travel content. I do too. I think you're my favourite travel content creator. You are the only travel content creator who I actually genuinely enjoy following because I get quite jealous.

That's the thing. I love it at the same time. I'm like, oh, I've got a fucking baby now. I can't do this. No, I look at you and I think, she's not. She's living her best life. Like, last week you put up videos, like diving off a boat. Yeah, that's so good.

No, because that is a new experience for me. I actually only taught myself a dive the last 18 months. I love that. I just basically started throwing myself off water, into bodies of water because I actually was terrible. But I was like, do you know what? I'm in this new era of my life where I'm just going to try things. And I'm very okay with failing and being rubbish it.

But I'm just in to giving it a go. Love that. It's the new motto of my life. I love that. I love great. Yeah. And actually it's, Like slowly, slowly improved.

And I never used to be able to dive properly. And now I can like fully dive with my legs up and everything. Amazing. I know. I saw this and I thought, wow. Yeah. It was really fun. But I love the water.

So I'm like anywhere in the sea, the pool, everything. I am. I'm a Pisces. Ah, lovely. Water site. My brother's Pisces. I just love water. Because I love water.

What are you? Virgo. Oh, my husband's a Virgo. Is that? What is that? I think that's an air sign. No, is it Earth sign? No, it's an Earth sign.

Let me Google. Google it, yeah. Wait, I don't get that from you, Virgo, no. I'd be fair. She's so neurotic. Well, okay, fair enough. Because I feel like, I feel like Down's not super like got obvious signs of Virgo, but I think he's on the tipping edge.

Yeah. His birth is like 26, so I feel like he could have been. Oh, August. Yeah. Oh, my God. That's so weird. That's so funny. Yeah, but he was like premature.

So he was, well, I don't know if that makes a difference to the world. Yeah, because I'm three weeks premature and I'm on the cost of cancer and Leo. So. I could, I see you being a Leo. I know, I love that for you. But I'm not. And then I think, I've got cancer tattooed now, so we've got to commit to that. Yeah, but I love that.

I love all the sides. So me and Dad are on the cusp of Leo, but the other side, right? Yeah, what's the other one? No, you're the other side. Oh, yeah, you're the other side. Because I was nearly. You're more of a Virgo than a Leo though. Yeah.

My God, yeah. Dan's not Leo at all, no. He's very shy. Oh, really? Yeah, well, he's not super shy. He's not introverted, but yeah, like we're like, we are kind of opposite, though. I think that works well, doesn't it? He's so cute.

Yeah, we've, how long have you been together? 16 years this year. Wow. Yeah, eight years married and 16 years together. That's so nice. I did with my husband for nearly 12 years. It's lovely, in that. It's so good.

16, that's amazing. That's a long time. Although it makes me feel like I, like, was with him when I was 12, because I somehow pretend I'm actually only 25, but I, we met when we were like 19, so yeah, that's still like, you know, but yeah, we've been together a long time. I know it's like just what you read on this. or what you see on the internet and you like jump to conclusions

but you seem so in love. I love him. I love him so much. He is like the nicest human being and he's just... Imagine you saying that on the podcast about a day. Never, but never gonna happen.

I love you too though. You're so funny. I actually crack up with you too. No, to be fair, like he is such an angel. Like he's so, he's so... Like, he's... You know, people are like cheesy

but he is like, I'm best friend, so cringe. I know that's my best friend. Yeah, but it's like full-on, like, would actually spend every minute the day with him if I could but he's just amazing

so I feel very lucky that's so nice but I think also part because we like grew up together you know like being 19 like you just do everything together and I think we like

have loved travelling together and see in the world and like we just love doing stuff together that was nice I do yeah me and Alex put together since I was 19 I think

and there is something in that yeah I was 18 19 I think I honestly think it I either makes or breaks you 100% because you go you're different you have to love every state of each other

or make it through every stage to be the people that you are, you're not the same person that you were. No. And if you love that person now, then you've loved, you've been able to love them in spite or because of all those other people.

In different stages as well. Which is beautiful. Like, we, when we first met, like, and we first got together, I was at uni, we met at work, and then he, like, moved into my student house with me.

So, like, we've lived in, like, student house together with our friends. We've lived in our own house. We obviously moved. And, like, I just feel like we've just done so many, like, life, big life moments. Like, we went on our first big trip in 2014, and that was like really what's set off travel for us.

Like we both loved it so much. And we did five weeks and we got engaged in Thailand. So it was like, I think it's just been amazing to go through like these really incredible like life experiences together. Yeah. Oh my God. So that's when you call the travelling bug. Yeah.

That was when I love. I mean, I've always loved it. But as you know, I started off in like the plus ice fashion world and like body confidence and, you know, body positivity and advocating for like, you know, in confidence in women. and that's still very much part of what I share. But I just have always loved food and travel and just like, I just think the world is so amazing and beautiful.

And I just honestly, it sounds kind of cheesy, but I love seeing the beauty in everyday life. And I just feel like you can find that so much when you travel. But you see that, I get that to your Instagram, I feel like you, to use a very TikTok Gen Z saying, you romanticize your life. I do. I do it.

That's what I get. That's what I get off. I'm like, everything looks beautiful. Like you're so good at it. It's also blue. isn't it? You're an aesthetic, you're an aesthetic, girl.

It's all nice and blue and glittery. I'm listening that one, I think, of your content. And you make the drone stuff. Oh, yeah, the drone stuff is sort of a new thing. Yeah, that's insane. It's cool. It's so cool, though. Your content is like...

It's scary, but because actually flying a drone and I was like, oh, it's always on the drone flying, but I actually, when I went to Thailand, like my friend, Leish, it was with me, and we both have a drone and we flew it together. I flew for her, she flew for me. And I was literally like, shaking, but I was like so prior that I did it

because I think, like, in the travel industry, it's kind of like, you know, it's typically for like photography and drone photography seen as quite a male dominated area. And I'm really glad that I can like have learned to do it to like bring a softer side to droning, you know? So it's more like lifestyle of static shots. That must be so powerful to be in control of something flying in the air.

It is petrifying. Like a couple of times I'm like, where is it? And I'm like scared there's going to be like a sequel. You might be over airspace. You could get arrested. You can get arrested. I've had a few friends that have had theirs taken down in the middle of like, then they're flying because of like an army base nearby has just taken it down yeah my

my mom lives near an army army base and we got my I think my brother ended up with a drone before they were cameras it was like a drone and it was just it wasn't great it was it was like yeah no you don't fly this no it's it's fun though but yeah it is definitely it's I don't know I like I like it's just an interesting thing to do again a new thing I'm learning why not that's it just give it a go so how long have you been online for I started online in 2012 wow yeah so you are O-G-O-G. Yeah.

You were the first people that I followed on Instagram, I think. I remember us messaging like early days. Yeah, me too. Because I think I only started it. You were. And what happened? I think I only started like Instagram

in like 2050. I think, maybe. We definitely were chatting on Twitter for a while. Yeah. I don't we use Twitter anymore. So it's not really like the place to me. It's a cesspit now. It's actually really naggy vibes over there, isn't it?

But apparently it's the same on threads now. Yeah, do you? Really? I popped on. the other day to share the fact that I bought fish and chips and that was it. I just don't pop in the night. Threads is, it's more cratery vibes over there now, I guess.

No, but it's nice. It's passive aggressive. Oh, really? And then just often aggressive. Well, that's why I just like, I find with like Twitter, like, obviously I don't know whether I get, I think just as I've got older, I guess I've become more self-aware. And like, the idea of like my thoughts living forever, like in word format makes me feel them well.

Well, now that's what we have to talk to you about because if you started in 2012, and like I started early as well. Yeah. That's literally what we did. We just told everybody fucking everything. Everything. I mean, that's how I started my blog.

I, you know, I actually was originally not, like, confident with myself at all. And the whole reason I started my blog was because I was on a journey to confidence.

So I just, and this was when, like, blogger was like, they used to have, like, it was like blog spot. Yeah, I had a blog spot. And like, I like made this like crappy little website

and like just completely just went for it and had to go. And then was Twitter was like really, it was really popping off back then so I used to be on Twitter quite a lot but then yeah like all that you know it all happened so quickly and then like 12 years later basically but it was just it was a different world then like every I think obviously you know it was like when blogging was in its prime and YouTube was in this prime and it was like all in the early days and I think it was a lot of just people doing a lot of passion

projects and like now excitingly which I think is amazing for the media landscape it kind of democratizes things so people can actually go into the media and without having any previous expertise but back in the day it was true just like this is what I'm wearing and like go and I was like sharing like what it was what I was going through with on my like body image and stuff and like being plus size and sharing fashion and yeah and then just kind of spiral from there really and then yeah it just it feels like a million years ago but it was also not that on go if that makes sense I do think to do it for as long as you've done it I think we've talked about this before like it does I don't think anyone can be on the internet now in the way that any of us are

without having a very thick skin. Yeah. And I think you can only, you only have a thick skin because you've been forced to grow one. And that's the sort of brutal thing of like, I don't think it's going to be like this

for TikTok generation. I don't think it's going to be like this. You think it's going to change? I don't think, I think we beat the shit out of each other. Yeah. Like I think the expectations that we put on each other online

and the expectation that sort of followers have put on creators for a long time has been utterly wild. Yeah. And I actually already think it's less than it was. I think people are more understanding of like, I mean, there's literally the term like chronically online. You know, it's like I do think that people are trying to edge the gap

between being online and that being this incredible, amazing thing and also realizing that there's life outside. Right. And I think it's bridging that gap. And I think back in the day when we were sharing so much, it was all from a very vulnerable perspective. And I really like value vulnerability. And I still out.

I still do try and be vulnerable, but I also think that I've maybe over the time learned a lesson about sharing in the middle of a wound. That's what Michelle Ellman. Yes, she always says that. Share scars, not wounds. Yes. That's the greatest advice. She does incredible advice.

She was going to come on soon. She's going to come on soon. I think that is so true. It's like saying it in the middle, like being in the midst of it and sharing it. And I think being plus eyes online is this own beast because of, The type of like, like the things that I have exposed myself to and allowed myself to read and kind of like, I think honestly my nervous system was on edge for a long time just because it, you know, it was, it was anything I was saying was like obviously trying to be meaningful and saying and encouraging women to like look at different perspectives. But like everything became a talking point about my body. And I think that that was. hard because there was always like some PT that wanted to say something awful and we know which people we know which we know which you know what you say something awful and that I think yeah especially

I mean I think things really changed for me during COVID um I think I think probably like many people I was kept things so busy and I was doing so many amazing things over the years that I started the career like I was like the UK's first plus last fashion columnist for Mary Claire I did so many core things in regards to mental health. You know, I was like, I used to go on like the news of John Snow and like, and all these amazing things, which I, I almost didn't have any fear. And I think it is kind of sad because I definitely think there is some fear now, probably because of like what I felt happened to me during COVID was I kind of

had a bit of a bad mental health break. And I think it was because I kept myself so busy for so long. And then when I was pulled away and forced to like actually deal with the feelings that I had kind of just brushed. aside and realize kind of how much, I just didn't realize how much the words were affecting me. And then I was just left with, I have to deal with this.

And then I was on the cover of Cosmo. And that, as you know, was a very controversial magazine cover. And it was like one of, was supposed to be one of the best things to happen my career, but was actually one of the most difficult. And I was left the other side of it, a different person, I think, yeah. it was so horrific what happened honestly it was so it and that he i don't even want to

yeah don't give his name because he's just no no definitely not getting his name but he's just people were just being cruel and it was like it was i think it was interesting to see horrible to see how they were so quick to jump on it yeah so quick to jump on it and like yeah it was hard there were like a few girls involved in that but like no one was no one was mentioned it was just myself and jessman stanley of the group there was like i think 12 i mean i was on the actual cover and there was also like a series inside and there was digital covers so and there was so many incredible variations of people inside the thing which was so frustrating for me was i i think what was so hard was because i was really advocating to like look at health as a spectrum and include

mental health in it and in such a funny way because I didn't realize I was actually going through like really bad mental health and in the end like physical problems because of my health because of my mental health and I was trying to advocate be like you know what like let's talk about this and let's advocate for like holistic like looking at the whole body and the mind is one connected thing and talking about the fact how hard it is for plus size women to fit in the health and well-being space full stop we're not included first of all we're tokenized And then when we actually like write an article where we talk about why like movement is great for our well-being and like focusing on mental health and like how bullying and actually targeting someone on their weight is actually having a negative impact on someone's health. Like I remember reading this study. I've spoken about it loads online. But there was a study done by cancer research where they did like this kind of broad study about how it's like statistically proven that it's the actual like bullying.

that can increase someone's, like, risk of cancer, um, aside of, like, being overweight. It's, like, actually causes people to have more of a problem with their body. And it's just so frustrating because people don't piece that together. It's like they, people view it as like, it's a hard line. That's, you know, you're sure, you have to be bullied basically in order to like be understood and, and, I'm going to lose my three or four here, but tough love, tough love essentially. And I just thought, I just don't know, I didn't understand why.

Just honestly, to be honest, I didn't think it was going to be as bad as it was. I think what was so hard was, first of all, being in lockdown, I couldn't go out. I couldn't really, like, talk, like, really see friends and, like, deal with what was going on. But, like, it wasn't just the usual, you know, horrible men on the internet, the right stuff. It was, like, GPs and nutritionists and doctors making YouTube videos, PTs. You know, someone reformulated the cover of the cosmopolitan magazines with three, skeleton dead people image it like it was like um images of like dead people as a form of like how bad it was and I just was like I was just I don't know I think I really did lose a sense of

myself like I think I I think it broke me from everything else I think it just finally to like put the pun into the bloody image that used but like it was the nail on the coffin it just was so hard on my mental and physical wellbeing that I just was like why am I doing this like and it's saying silly because I think part of that, you know, I felt like I deserved it because why did you, like, you know, the idea of like, if you put yourself out there, you deserve that. But I think there's so that's, I think there's so much of that to unpick and like what we do and specifically what you do. But I think that's like, it's such a, and you say, I mean, you use the word victim blaming. And if you think of like a traditional victim in the context of like that word, well, that's that phrase. And it came from rape and sexual assault and sexual harassment. And it's. always that it puts the onus on the women. And I think it was a very easy little step for people to take because the online space was dominated by women, that when things started going wrong,

or when we started to be attacked or when you started to be hurt by it, it was just, it's such an easy thing. It's something we already do to women all the time, force them to take responsibility for things that are literally not their fault. Yeah. By simply existing, by being public, by being anything, by anything, you're blamed.

for it and that's in and of your in yourself to unlearn that is such a hard thing i don't think people understand it it was even hard because i remember that particular PT made that post and i also saw people that followed me like it which was really painful that's horrendous yeah because i was just like then it makes you feel like everyone doesn't see you the way you think they see you and that they secretly all think something else and it's was just so hard but what was most of shaking about it was that no one actually read the article. Like, obviously, I was invited on to Good Morning Britain with Piers Morgan. I rejected every press opportunity I rejected.

I couldn't do it. I mean, I was, I think, yeah, like, you'd think that you'd want to do that if you were, you'd be lucky enough to be chosen to be on a cover of a major magazine. I just couldn't bring myself to do it. I really struggled. And I think it was, it felt like I was, like, in the room of everyone's tea. Like, everyone was home. I felt like I was in the room with like millions of people.

And I actually started coming online and like feeling like 250,000 people were looking at me. It became like the problem I think really kind of span from there. And I just, yeah, it was just really hard. And it's so weird because I had experienced like levels of like this previously. You know, I'd read things about myself. I'd seen comment sections. You know, I've even like had like men get hold of my email and like email and like email and me like telling me like shut up you fat fucking.

whole like over and over and like people threatened to like I'm going to make more Twitter accounts until you kill yourself like I've had the I've had the full works but I think the I think what was maybe like that felt more revealing was that it was kind of like I don't know I don't know why it was so confronting but it put you up for debate like it put you up for it wasn't yeah I mean those people have those the people who are sending you unhinged messages like there is a part of you that thinks this is a projection there's a part of you that knows that they're the is really unhinged and not right. But what they did, what that PT did and what Pierce Morgan did

and what all these men who waltzed into a women's only space took charge of a situation that was nothing to do with them, but by framing it as a debate and by framing it as a conversation and it's like we really need to think about this and we need to, they're questioning you as a person. And it's like it's putting you up for discussion, which is completely inappropriate. Yeah.

They're faux concern. And I think that was it as well. It was all wrapped up in like, but we're, you know, we're just doing what's best for people. Like, as if they give a damn about any single person or plus size person. Like, they don't care. And I've never ever, like, even in that article, like, I have always advocated for, like, body autonomy, women making decisions about their body, choosing what works best for them, focusing on mental health, focusing on not even loving yourself, but, like, being in a neutral space about, I was listening to Billy's podcast and we talked about this about the new, like, being in a neutral. space about how you think yourself. It's not that easy to love yourself. And I think I definitely you know, have understood that as I've got older as well, like advocating for like loving yourself

all the time. It can be challenging. It's not easy to do. But that was what was so frustrating. And it was like seeing that it doesn't matter what you say is how you look. Because I wrote all of that and it didn't matter. But I think honestly it did it did bring it did change things for me in a big way because I began to realize that I did actually have to take some self-responsibility, not because I'm not trying to say like, you know, I didn't deserve what happened, but I realized that I was part of my own suffering because I was allowing, well, first of all, I was reading these comments. Second of all, I realized that, you know, I didn't actually have to do this if I didn't want to. I had a choice. And I think for a long time, I felt like I was going to let people

down if I step back from speaking out and if I step back from advocating the way I had done previously and I felt I oh I get emotional about this oh wow sorry I just felt like I was letting lots of women down that I had always spoken about and I felt really sad that I was letting them down because I had let this get to me but the decision I made was to step back a bit from being that sorry I don't know why this has hit me so hard um I just realized that I wanted to curate a space where I could just be joyful and not and not be torn apart. I mean, obviously, people find ways to tear me apart no matter what and I, whatever, it's fine. But I think I just didn't want to be, I just couldn't handle being broken that way.

Like, I think it really broke me. I mean, fair enough. My God, like it would break anyone. It was such a noise. Like, they just made so much noise. And it was completely. it was completely like inappropriate and absolutely wild and I genuinely think if you and I think about this quite a lot I think it's so easy to get so swept up in movements like

that online yeah I think if you asked a lot of people about their behavior at that time they would probably be quite ashamed of themselves yeah yeah I mean it's clear that they wanted those creators wanted a viral moment from this and there was zero consideration for like who was behind their viral like what at what cost at like whose expense and like they were flashing up images of you and jessamine and yeah it was cruel and it was really callous and i think i'm so fondler as well i'm not surprised yeah yeah she was on the cover as well wasn't she was she was yeah but i don't think she was yeah but i think it still the image isn't it i think in what i learned from it was you get to

decide like what is enough and it wasn't i don't know why this was the thing because but i think maybe I did I think honestly it did make me reflect on like I was saying all this about health and well-being and I was honestly battering my health and well-being and I was thinking like how much more because I don't think again like people ignore that like what impact is that having on your cortisol levels on your stress on your sleep I mean I was I couldn't sleep I you know I was getting so you know all of it and I think I like I'm actually starting a substand which is a positive thing, but I was, well, the initial post I was trying to share about this and I was talking to Dan about the update because I was really struggling to get that, like, it's like I've

been able to talk about it now, maybe it's because it's easier coming straight from me, but I was trying to write it down and say that like, I definitely, I realized that, you know, I had to do something because I wasn't, I was worried for myself, like, really deeply. Like, I was worried about what I was going to be, God, why? Sorry, I'm so sorry. Don't worry. I was worried about what was going to be left of me if I continue to allow myself to absorb the things that people said about me and how people viewed me. And I think that is actually a problem for women on the internet in general. And it's a very hard thing to navigate. And I think, you know, I respect so many people for their bravery. And like, but I think at some point, you have to know your limits. And yeah, I think I'm really grateful. I'm not grateful that I had to deal with it. But I'm grateful that it me an opportunity to reflect on, you know, how much I was just, like, so passively accepting it. And also how I think I also did get, I think, to an extent addicted to reading the hateful comments. It actually became a form of self-harm. A hundred. I've been there.

I was, I, I, and like, you get to this point where you think, everybody hates me. Everybody hates me. And I'm this, you know, you say the worst things about yourself. And I, like, remember telling Dan about it. And I just felt like I didn't deserve help. I didn't know where to even begin. I couldn't really, I felt even like I couldn't, like, talk about it with, like, I remember having a phone call of my sister. My sister's young, she's 25 and like, honestly, she's so,

that generation, they're like better than I know. Yeah, they are. They are so fucking boundaries. They're so. And she was, like, so sweet to me. And I think it was like, I have to get past this because I am an adult and I cannot, you know, like, let this rule. me, but it took some, like, serious introspection.

I took some time offline, and I had, like, chats it down. And I was like, I knew that, you know, people kept saying, like, if you, it's not, if you don't like it, then you should just come offline. But I knew that this would, this would follow me offline. If I didn't deal with that, it was going to. But that is not that. I take a real issue when people say that, because for a few reasons, first of all, I mean, I get it in principle, but it's like, first of all, it's really not an option in this day and age.

but also and it's not your responsibility to fix a systemic issue but if we do as we always have which is push women back and make victims be quiet and run away then this continues and it's like I genuinely think what you have done has been the most powerful response to this by such a way because you've so gracefully like reclaimed your power and just gone on to be happy And there is, you can feel it. Like even as a follower, and I really believe this, you can feel when somebody wants validation and when they don't.

And it's not, it's in no, or when they need validation and when they don't. And it's in no way knocking anybody that does need validation because of course, we all need fucking validated because look at the world and look at what we've been taught our worth is and all of that. But like when you see someone like make that switch on the self-love journey and really start validating themselves and believing that,

It's the coolest thing to watch. That's why I love following you. Yeah. And I think I wanted to like continue share it. Like I decided, you know, I had so much therapy. And I was talking to my therapist being like I was struggling to shop online because of it. But then I realized that I actually love like this was this started from a passion project. You know, I didn't start this as I want to go into this as a career. This was I'm sharing this journey.

This is my experience. And I obviously loved it. But I also love travel and I also love all these things. And like I decided that. maybe I could start sharing the things that were helping me, i.e. World swimming and cycling and cooking and traveling and doing these things and actually, you know, living my life as a plus-sized woman and showing that as an example that I can do all the things and I can focus on my health and well-being and I can focus on mental health

and doing it as an example for people to, you know, I just, like I said, you do feel, you know, a sense responsibility because it feels like I've just dropped off and never spoken about it again. It's not, I am so grateful for the people that continue to advocate the, you know, the plus-sized women, the fat activists, all these incredible people that still put in the work in. And I just truly, like, I give them all their flowers. And who knows, maybe there will be a time I feel strong enough to do that. But I think for me, I had to find a way to still show up and still offer something to women and encourage them to like live their life and enjoy their life whilst also not exposing myself to things that physically I just could not handle anymore

and I am really grateful that you know I've been able to and so incredibly lucky to be able to move adjust in my career and you know I still share plus size fashion which I know is so hard to like for women and that was the biggest thing that people kept writing was like you're not I just got, I just became so self-aware that I hated everything I wore. I hate everything I looked. I just felt like I just couldn't show up online. I think moving into food was the first sign of like this, I was like desperate to not put my face online. And it felt so easy just to put food up, you know, cooking videos up or travel videos where I wasn't in them. It was like I was almost erasing myself. I honestly like would have to force myself once a week. It sounds

crazy. People probably look back and be like, well, you look fine. But it's like, that's the internet, isn't it? Like, you know, but behind the scenes there was, conversations happening with close friends and like my therapist and Dan about how I was doing it and it was like honestly a daily like you have to try harder each day to to actually like yourself which is a horrible thing to admit because it's not something I would wish on anybody to despise every inch of themselves but it just I now am at a place where I feel a lot more content and I think it's an ongoing journey for sure but I'm just so grateful that people have stuck with me and I just, I get so much, you know, what was hard as before was that I was so engulfed by

the mean, a lot of the time, the mean stuff and the angry stuff that I really missed all the good stuff. I really missed the kind comments. I really miss the beautiful emails that used to come in, you know, women telling me that they'd never wore a swimsuit before, but they had never taken their kids swimming, but I, they'd seen a post and they felt encouraged. Now I'm getting messages like, I'm going to learn to dive and I want to go traveling. Can you give me this itinerary? And like, I want to go and do a solo trip to so and so. And I just think that's been a beautiful transition because I'm just like, I can still share what I love.

I love photography. I love travel. I love food. And I love women. And I love sharing, like, and inspiring people to, like, live their lives. And we only have a short time on the world. And I think that was the big thing was we have to live our lives the way, in a way that feels true, authentic and happy.

And the happiness is, I've learned is, it's not, I don't even know what it is. something you can necessarily attain but it's it's choosing a life that you think fits for you and I think that's been the biggest change and I feel I feel in a good place even I'm crying it shows and like going back to you saying like you worried that you were letting people down I actually I think the complete opposite I think you just showing up and existing and like doing your like the things that you find joyful and expressing them and and like living like that joyful life because it does it does come across online and just and and also not having like being plus size but not having to talk about it yeah just existing as you are and like just living your

life and I think that's really powerful as well which is sad to even say because it shouldn't have to like you know it's it's great but that's the reality of like the world we live in and I think that's like really powerful for people to witness and like to see as well and like for plus size people to follow you and just I don't know just like follow you and see you be happy and just like see like a happy life you know that's all you want it I think that's that's it isn't it like you know in an ideal world we wouldn't have labels we wouldn't have like plus size and non plus size and straight size and that we wouldn't have it but we do have it and there is a place for them but I also think it's completely okay to just live and like and just be because I think I think that's the thing is

you know, you can get caught up with your identity, that being your only, the, something you attach yourself or others attached to you as being the only thing about you. And I, I know there's more to me than that. And I'm so, I'm so grateful for what, be, I said, weird to say like being plus eyes, but it did, but it ultimately did give me a career. It ultimately did give me chances that I just would never have had. I, I truly believe that. And I think I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't sit here and say that it was for nothing. And I know that I'm in such a privileged position to be in a job the way that I am. And I'm so grateful that I've managed to, like I said, work in the industry. But it's, yeah, it is. It can be quite hard to have,

you know, to have people only see you as that. And on both sides of the spectrum, you know, like, no matter what I do, no matter what I say, there's always going to be someone that's going to make a podcast about me. And I just, I felt the responsibility a lot. And I just, I felt the responsibility a lot and I just I'm just so glad that people like as I said people have stuck with me and enjoy that lovely content. I think as well that it's like you get to define yourself. I think that there's a lot of things we love to label women particularly and like that's and it's really hard for us to accept that they grow or that they're multifaceted or that there's another side of them or that they are evolving or whatever it is and it's like if you attach one label to a person then

that's who they're going to be forever. I know I've really strong. struggle with that like people attaching an identity to me that I don't feel aligned with or I don't feel aligned with but I just feel like it's one very small part of who I am yeah and it's really powerful and you can be like yes okay that's one part of who I am but it's not all that I am and it's in that you like one of the best things I learned was that other opinions aren't facts yeah and like other people's perception of me is not who I am because I always thought everybody knew better than I did and like everybody knows no you lose all self-trust you lose yeah and and And that's kind of what I feel like, I don't know, I think people who, if we're all holding mirrors up to each other, there are going to people who look at you being happy and that's going to find that, they're going to find that really hard because they're not happy.

Totally. Because it's some shit within themselves. But you are also giving really lovely permission and hope to people who perhaps have felt like you in that they've had a label put on them and they felt because of that they are, that they can't or they shouldn't or they won't. And then you all just like out there and say, I'll dive a boat. I think it's beautiful like you said that that like we do change I think that's the big thing is that we do change like we do there's no way we're the same as we are I hate what people say people can't change I'm like no people do change it's like it's like wise mate I don't think people change

people do change I think they're the same I think they change I do actually think people change yeah 100% sorry Kristen Bell people change yes but it's just like it is you you kind of have to you have to adapt and like life and it comes in and you know all these things things, different things happen. And I think, you know, it is, like every single person is having to deal of being online and navigating that. And, you know, not even people that are just creators. Like, everybody, everybody deals with having to navigate changes in their life. And, you know, I just think, I think part of that was that I wasn't able to, like, I think I was very stuck in,

like, I can't be fluid. I have to do this and that's that. And I just don't think that is healthy for anyone, no one at all. So I do think it's been a really beautiful, journey because this made me realize I'm less I'm I used to live like I've got to be therapy tour but I used to live very much in the past and always thinking about what's going to happen in the future and now I try and be a bit more present like what's happening right now how can I fix how I'm feeling right now I see your therapist yeah yeah well I started I did somatic therapy which is like I'm because I did seven I just off to put myself on blastier but it's seven years of or even eight years of um talking therapy and I think I realized that it wasn't

really helping me. I've always had issues with like chronic nightmares because I've got a sleep disorder. So I've always had issues of sleep but it's exasperated by anxiety. So at one point during all this, my sleep was so bad. And I was doing tons and tons of research and I read about somatic therapy, which is about nervous system management and like learning to actually understand that I always thought anxiety was a mental thing, but I think anxiety for me is a physical. It's physically in my body and you can feel it. I was got to have panicking. attacks and like you know you get you get jittery and you can't keep still i think nervous what i learned about nervous system so i did like eFT which is tapping um breathing exercises

what do you think it i think it really helps me because i can get into like intrusive thoughts and like get stuck in loops and i think it really helps with um well just like it helps calm your nervous system yeah i would like this try it try it also silly things but i know the same staff but um grazing anatomy is a good one for this but they call it dancing it out but it's like dancing and like moving your body physically lifts yeah like your nervous system because you're like releasing so like shaking and that's why you like running 100%'s why I like running yeah I can't I'm the same I believe that I've had a lot of coaching rather than therapy I mean it is a form of therapy but I've had a lot of life coaching and it's so practical it's like you're in control of your thoughts

you're in what you're in control of your thoughts and once you control your thoughts that controls your feelings and Jacqueline who is my coach we've had on podload she she basically says you don't have anxiety you feel anxious because it's not empowering and that does not apply for everyone and that I wasn't diagnosed by a GP I just I'm a very anxious person and she and I never felt empowering to me to say I have anxiety because it felt like something completely out of my control whereas when she was like no you're feeling anxious that helped me because it was like okay I can work with that yeah and I think running was good but I can't fucking run at that moment. I also learn about how to see feelings as moving things, like coming and going and passing

and it's like setting. Yeah. Because I think that's, that was the thing as like I can feel quite like, oh my God, this, you know, I honestly used to just truly be in like fire flight mode like I would be physically, you know, unwell from it. Because it would, yeah, you do feel it in your body physically. And I just think, I know meditation, like some people, you know, I don't think there are obviously, um, lots of mental health interventions. I think meditation is really good, like was really good for me because I struggle with at the beginning because I'm obviously like a chatter. I love talking and it doesn't stop when I close my, when my mouth shut, it's still like, in my head. But I think like meditation just helped

me like focus and quiet. And so in the, like, I don't even see my Instagram, but I've got a hammock. I love my hammock. And like, I'll like, go on my hammock and like I'll like in the morning just like put a meditation on and I will just like it just helps me set like set myself up for the day and like even like today I was running late because I was I had a meeting but I was really stressed about it so I put it on on the tube and I just think like oh saying it because there's so much going on but I think it just helps just you know remembering to breathe because I think we don't breathe enough and like I honestly was just yeah and I took up yoga as well I started doing all these like I think I had my my woo-woo moment as they like to call it but I really

did like I just like started to you know I was going to like a local I did a candle at yoga class And I used to, yeah, it was lovely. Just like a local place near me on Friday night. It was yin yoga. You basically just lie down the whole time. It's absolutely good. And just like, I just stuff like that. Like I just started doing like wild swimming and like, you know, like I love going in cold water because it really helps.

I have cold showers. Like I just think, I just started to do little things because I think I really, I honestly think I became detached from myself. And when I started to like, oh, this is me and my body and I connected the two things. And I started like finding tools. like don't be wrong it doesn't always work there you can't it won't not it's not always going to work but just being able to have a toolbox to pop into it was really useful yeah and i just think yeah it's just been really great and yeah i highly recommend anyone looking at somatic therapy if you can get hold of it um it's just more of a it's just more of a where you kind of actually have actionable

tools to take i think talking therapy can exacerbate like i don't want to talk about my shit I don't think anyone needs to hear it I don't want to hear it I know how bad it is I don't want to talk about it I don't want to I want to just get to work on it

right yeah exactly yeah that says exactly what I need no it is lovely and I just yeah and that's why I mean like you know what and I think honestly like I am obsessed with swimming so swimming has been incredible I swim like three four

maybe sometimes five rooms a week now I was just hard to say don't start me No, because it's actually, I think it's going to start for like... But you're kidding. I said to Helen, when she came to find her, said, you'll know it's Callie because she's got really nice hair. Oh, that's so nice.

I think you've got the nicest hair. It's very thick, right? So I have been like, because it gets dry as anything. I mean, it's getting these a good cut. It's very thick. But with the, that's the situation with the chlorine. So when I, so people say to put like conditioner on before you go in, I swim caps, I just don't, I don't, I don't, they never seem to work for me.

They don't work. They don't work. I literally look like an egg. But I think it's like, it's less exposure. But I did, I did hear that if you go, I always do this anyway, but before I go into, because I go to swim at Alido. But I just go in the shower before to wet it.

And I think that stops the, like, your hair absorbs it. You need to wash it straight away afterwards. Yeah. So if you're something five times a week. Constantly. This is genuinely, because I keep thinking I should swim, like right now. I can't do anything else. I think you would love it.

Unless I throw up in the fall in which goes, I'll never be allowed back. But, but, but. I can't wash my hair that often. I don't... You could just go in and just like do a top knot and just... Guys, I've become like totally like.

I've become real lame. I've bought like a snorkel and I snorke on. Oh my God, amazing. I snorkelet swim. I swim with a snorke and I also have underwater headphones music. Which is just the best thing ever. And the best thing is whenever I go travelling I take them with me and I do sea swims.

Can you imagine like listening to music and just being like in the sea? Isn't that? You wouldn't hear the sharks coming. I know. I know. True. Can you listen to podcasts?

Yes. Oh my God, I would love that. It's honestly the best thing. Like, the thing is, like, the podcast is that if you, like, accidentally skip, like, you can't go back. It's, like, a, of an B3 drop and drag sit at you. But it's so great. I love it so much. And, like, I can swim for, like, an hour long with just my snorkel.

I do look deranged in the poor. I would die. If you left me in the sea for an hour, I'd be dead. Oh, no. Like, surprisingly, Dan doesn't love the seat. And I'm literally like, I have to, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I need to be in the water. I have to have the water.

Like, he knows that I was like... I don't like being in the water, but swimming consistently for an hour. Oh, yeah. Oh, no, I do like, I honestly can do like, I do like 45 minutes, like full on laps and then I just do like a slow. I have different, I have different music for different swimming. I do like, sometimes I do a little speedy swim with a bit more like, you know, hypey music.

And then I've got like some chill vibes. I honestly love it. Like I do, there's, I've got like a few funny videos of me where I just look absolutely deranged where I'm just like on my own. I love it. I lie in the middle of Lido like this. I love doing that. There is nothing more peaceful to me than, okay, this is quite weird, but you lie on your back and you go down into the water and like swim against it.

And then for a moment, you just like, it's just the most serene, like peaceful, beautiful. I love the water so much. I love it. I just honestly. I love the water on my, but I don't have me underneath it. Oh, I love it. Additionally, it's heaven on earth. I just, I love it. I honestly, seriously, it's kind of like, I actually.

think it's become you know how people like get really into like running and it's like could not be me I'm not no interest in running my knee could not handle that but um because obviously you know I fell between the train the gap so I've got bad me hope we had a whole chat by this before the pod started but it's a whole drama but um like swimming is also just amazing for like I just I really advocate it for anyone who wants to who isn't super mobile and wants to like start exercising because it's so good on the joints it's good for resistance you know I do you're really selling this to me oh yeah just get come to the Liza me. Can I? Can I? I love that. I know I'll get my hair wet if I'm with Callie. I'll be fine.

Yeah, I'll go look at the larger. I don't want to. I'm like, there's so much to it. I'm like the changing rooms. I won't know I'd put my stuff and then I'm where do I have a little like sit in the grass after. Oh my God. I'm coming. It's just so nice. Honestly. Let's go. It's lovely. Do you want to come? You would love. Would you? Would you? Yeah. I honestly. In London in the summer as well, it's Gorge. Yeah. Let's go for a swim. I really, honestly. I went next to be one of these things that we just talk about. I know, I really, I will tell you, like, we'll go. I'll bring my goggles. It's just, it's so heavenly.

You could borrow my headphones. I have gone through. The only thing is with these belly headphones is that they do break after a year. So I've literally bought like four pairs, but I'm like, I'm investing in myself. I don't think we'll keep it up for a year, so that's okay. Yeah. Yeah. I like, I just, yeah, I just, I like, I love the idea of swimming.

I think that would be good for you right now. Yeah, I think it's the only thing I could do. I've been thinking about it loads. I can't do yoga or Pilates because it's bending over. I can't do running because you can just sit there and just be. I really like to move. I wouldn't. I haven't got there any...

Can you have baths? Do you like to sit in the bath for the minute? I'd be too sick in the bar. No, it's too hot. Too hot. That's right. I mean, I honestly think... I think this could be...

I agree, because I went swimming in the Isleman. Like, I love swimming in the Irish day. I love cold water swimming. I love that. But the thing is, I love swimming. I just can't do it very long. I could do three or four laps and then I'm pooped. Yeah.

It's so out of breath. No, that's one thing I'll tell you. Like, it is tiring. Like, but I've even bought myself like these little ankles and calls them my And what do you call them? My, is it fins or something ridiculous? He's just like, they're like actual hand things. Oh, my husband's got those.

Yeah. And I'm just like, I just find them amazing. Honestly, I've just, I've even got myself weights to go in the water. Like, this is the thing. I just think, like, I think if you like something and actually enjoy it, like, that's what I think before, I actually wrote in the Cosport, an article if you ever want to read it. But I said, like, you know, you have to do things enjoyable. Like, you cannot do things from a form of punishment.

And I think movement is so amazing for men. health and physical well-being and all these things and I realize like I don't love a lot of things like I don't enjoy running I hate it you know I don't love really being in a gym setting I love being outside I'm a nature girly through and through and I just was like you know what you can actually do weights in the water you can do water aerobics you can do all these things and I'm just like honestly there's actually this amazing Instagram account called mental health swims or swims for mental health I'll give you the link for it to tag but they they are great and they do like swim meetups and they do like like where they like you can go talk and have coffee after and like meet

people and I just think that's beautiful and I think at the end of the day you have to do what you have to find something that you enjoy so that you can actually commit to doing it and showing up for yourself and swimming I just think it's just the most beautiful I just think it's beautiful even like hamster pond you can swim in the ponds I don't know about that right now for you hamster um so yeah yeah you got the ladies women's lady's lady's yeah but there's a lot of duck I love that you found your something. Yeah. Yeah.

I feel like I've never found it with exercise. What have you tried? You like I love boxing? Oh, I love boxing. It's not, I don't know. It's like, where do I go? It's not mindful. No, I actually do find it quite mindful, but it's like, where do I?

It's release. Why do we get you to a boxing gym? We can find your coat. There's definitely, I don't know, co-boxing still exists. Yeah, co-box is so good. They have a bugger shoes. It's one nearby, you know. Oh, is there?

You can do it on the way it work. That's a really good... Oh my God! Oh my God! I could do it, I could do it around here. Yeah. I keep forgetting that exercise is an option at any point.

Like, when I was training to the American, it was so easily part of my life. I was actually insane. I literally... She did an ultra marathon at one point. That's amazing. I have to say, I give major credit for, like, people who do my...

Same. Could never be me, but love you all for it. If I tried to swim for an hour, I would literally go to the bottom and never be heard from again. I just... See you. No, no. Oh, shodd.

Do you know, Dan can't float in the water either? Really weird. I feel like, I actually have a problem sinking. I think it's actually the more weight you have. I think it's bone density, isn't it? Yeah, is it? I think so. You can't.

I have to hold him up like this in the sea. That's good for being able to like lie down and look up for a while though. Yeah. I honestly, it's so funny. I've got such a mental image of you just carry you into the sea. Come on, damn. Oh, no, honestly, I love it. I just, it's so funny.

I just love being winkless as well. Because, like, obviously, I'm not, like, encouraging Dan to, like, lift me up in the street, you know, on a normal day-to-day. But in the pool, I'm like, I want to be lifted. I want to pretend like I'm in dirty dancing. I want the whole shebang. I like, it's a lovely vibe, I promise. You know, when you're like monkey around someone, like, put your arms and legs around

and then they can just like waddle you through the water. I love that. Fringially, we also play sharks, which is so embarrassing. That's short. It's essentially where you like attempt to like fake drain each other. But it's like, we have to like kind of like swoop, you know, like kind of dunk each other. I mean, it's not draining. That sounds right up your street.

I just like after like two glasses of wine and rugby tackle people. Yeah, that's the vibe, but in the water. So it's safe, you know, resistance and all that. The water, no injuries. It sounds super safe. But it's just like so funny because that doesn't sound fun to me. Yeah, no, oh really, I just love it. No, it feels really stressful.

I don't like to be drowned. I don't like to be drank. Don't you? That's crazy. Yeah, no. I don't like being under water particularly. I'm really scared of, like, like, you ever done,

it sounds like a round of fear and scared to drown. Have you ever done, I'm not going, snorkeling or, like, scuba diving. That's genuinely like, it makes me feel, I'm not scared of anything apart from being underwater. Okay, so that I have done that and I will say like I've got a little bit. It's not so, it's actually amazing, but it's more that like you, you're fine. And then all of a sudden you realize that you're breathing with an apparatus that like could actually break and fail and immediately. See you. Yeah. Actually, say about your mind, you see. Your mind has really power over you because you can be not thinking about it and all of a sudden you can think about it.

And I was literally, and you can't rush to the top because you can. like damage your ears and stuff. That's where, that's why I wouldn't thrive. I'd be like, see you. I did it in Mauritius and bugging my ears up. It was so painful. Oh, no. Not great. But I was, I was actually thinking that because I was like, yes, I definitely want to do this. But I think I'm happy to be above all. I do love a snorkel. I love seeing all the fish and stuff. Yeah, that's nice thing. I feel like it's none of my business. It's what's going on down there. Yeah. No, I don't care for it. Dan doesn't really enjoy lakes. I've started to get, encourage it. That's where I learned to dive.

I was in Norfolk. Oh, I like swimming in a lake. Like, they just don't look down. Yeah. That's it. Like, I like to look down and see what's down there. Because you can only see what's in front of you. What's behind you? You don't want to know any of it.

I want to see what's, you don't want to see what you're swimming on. No. I watched a thing on TikTok recently of these two girls that were on, were paragliding. Yeah. And they were in the air. Seen it?

With the sharks. Yeah. They were literally about to be dropped because they obviously dunk you in like, and they were like, there was like a school of sharks? No, it's not. That's not a thing. A shawl of shark? No, that sounds nice.

They're sure of sharks. A gang of, I mean, a gang of sharks. A gaggle. A gaggle. They do feel like a gang. And I was like, they were obviously screaming, but obviously no one hear them. Couldn't just imagine just being done. I cannot.

But someone did say that whenever you're in the sea, you're like not far from a shark or something. If you're like, you know, somewhere with their sharks. They're right there. They're right. They're hanging out. But I'm not scared of that. You've gone on, you know, like you've gone on dead hurt. Like I really, I just think slightly more full.

You. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, I totally agree. Yeah, but I, my toxic trait is that I think I would make friends of them all. Like, do I mean, maybe not sharks, but like dolphins and that kind of. I don't know if you know, but I'm a Pisces. So I don't think you're going to live in the sea.

I honestly, no. I feel a real affinity with you. I love swimming pools as well. My favorite thing is to go to different hotels and find like the best room pools. So I can give you all the best eats. Oh my God. Oh my God, yes. Yeah, I just love a good pool.

Next holiday, I plan. I'm coming to you for advice. Yes. I just want to go swimming with you at some point. Went to a really good family hotel. hotel recently that you both would love I think design a family hotel in Crete I want to go to Crete yeah it's oh Crete's amazing best food should we go together let's go go together let's go honestly should so this is a beautiful design hotel let's go in September

I'm really busy in September I've got three we can have like four weddings do another time October it wouldn't be very warm no October because Crete is like a bit closer to Turkey so it's still quite hot in that time let's go in October it's good but it was a beautiful hotel it's Concrete and Malia Park, and it was just like the perfect, I would say a great place for parents that need like a beautiful design hotel, amazing food, but has like facilities for kids. Like really nice, like it has like shallow pools and like every parent, they just like they have the time of their life. Oh, that's why.

I want to have a time. Yeah, and there's a beach and the restaurant, the food was amazing. I mean, if it doesn't happen in October, next year we're going. It's such a non-negotiable. Totally. Okay. Really lovely vibes. And there's also another one which, I think it's also a family hotel, but it's going to, sorry, I'll stop.

We could go May. Oh, lovely, me, early days. It would be good. I do recommend it. I've shared about it on my socials, but if anyone has got kids and they're looking for a nice... I really do recommend it.

It was beautiful. I mean, and everyone has to follow Callie as well. If you don't already. If you don't already, because they're incredible and if you need any travel inspo. And she's just like we said, she's just like an aesthetic girly.

Everything just looks nice. Sparkly. And you start your substabstats? Yes. I haven't... What's it called? It's all good things? Yeah, it's Just Good Things, it's cool.

So I haven't launched it, which I was so scared about it. For some reason, I'm nervous. You have to know why. But, yes, that's what, I know. I was like, actually, can ask you. I was like, when is this going to? Soon, you better get to work. Yeah, yeah, I literally have to.

But it's called Just Good Things and is basically essentially a really kind of joyful space, but it's focusing on I'm going to do in segments. So just good food, just good travel. Oh, just good style. And it'll just be like, it's going to be just a newsletter with like, I guess just things that I would probably used to have put on a blog. But I guess doesn't, I feel like sub-sac's a new space for that kind. It feels like, yeah, blogging 2.0.

Yeah, I love that. She called it that. And I was like, that's actually a really good way of thinking about it. And then again, like, just think it would be nice. There's also a community space there as like a chat and stuff. Like, because I get a lot of questions about travel. And I haven't figured out where I want that to sit. And I'm actually like, it could be great to like have a space where I can share like all my wrecks for like, you know, cute little villas.

They're Airbnbs, I say, lovely hotels. Like, I think it'd be nice. And just, obviously get it straight to your inbox. so amazing we're going to put the link in the show notes and also to your Instagram and thank you so this has been so fun it's been so great to you I've actually I've loved coming on it's been such a joy and I do chuckle I was doing my clean yes to listen to the pod and I'm just like you guys are so funny oh like it's just lovely vibes and energy it's not all about our bum holes I was enjoying the bumhole combo it was good well I know

that you weren't enjoying it as much but it was it did I was doing what me and Dan call a 15 minute reset where I'm like you know when like you just need a deep like a quick clean I'm like sorry this is giving like not good vibes and I'm like let's just 15 minute reset and I just put we both put our headphones on and like we each tick a zone so like down to do the kitchen I do the living room I was given the worst section I'm not involved in that kitchen stuff yeah I love the dishwasher I'm like less like a candle fluff the pillows kind of vibe nice thank you thank you so much thank you so much it was gorgeous I loved it thank you so much love you bye bye Should I delete that is part of the ACAS creator network.