Should I Delete That? - Jac is Back: let other people be wrong about you

Episode Date: July 10, 2022

Jac’s back… another emergency call to our resident coach Jacqueline Hurst. This week, Em opens up about her slip into checking online forums. She talks to Jacqueline about how it has really impacted her self esteem, and Jac helps dissect exactly why. This isn’t only for people who, on the off chance, may find themselves being spoken about on a forum, but for anyone who has ever been criticised. Jacqueline wants to show you how to not let it impact you, and as Al sees it, how you can use your skin as a barrier against negativity.In a slightly switched format to usual, the girls discuss snapping gussets, foul moods and why we should all #PrayForDave at the end of the episode...Check out Jacqueline's website here: https://www.jacquelinehurst.com/Sponsored by Butternut Box - visit www.butternutbox.com/alexandem for 50% off your first two boxesFollow us on Instagram @shouldideletethatEmail us at [e-mail] & edited by Daisy Grant Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We are so happy and proud that this episode is sponsored by Butternut Box, a brand that we love for many reasons. As you'll probably already know, if you follow us both on Instagram, buttonut box is a fresh dog food delivery service that delivers straight to your door and takes into consideration all of your dog's dietary needs. The brand started with a rescue dog, which we obviously love, and Betty and Bua have absolutely thrived on it. Buttonut Box genuinely care about their dogs and their ethos is that good enough for the dog is not good enough. Dogs deserve better. The meals are comprised of quality meat, veg, lentils, vitamins and minerals

and don't contain any grain, wheat, gluten, corn, soy or sugar, all of which are known to cause intolerances in dogs. We haven't been asked to say this, but we wanted to highlight a huge amount of work that Butternut Box do with dog charities. They donate meals to dogs in shelters, and they even donate freezers so that the shelters can store the meals. If you would like to try Buttonut Box out for your dog, you can get 50% off your first two boxes with the following link.

com forward slash Alex and M. Oh my God, why did I post that? Ah, I don't know what to do. Should I delete that? Yeah, you should definitely delete that. Hi, you guys. Welcome back to the podcast. Welcome back to a topsy-turvy upside-down episode of the Should I Delete That

podcast today. We are fucking with the format for one week and one week only. that's not a promise though because we are fucking with the chaotic nature it could be a regular thing but no it won't be it's fine so today we are going to do the good the bad the awkward at the end we are going to go

straight into the interview segment and that is because Jack's back Jack is back this Jack is back this is an important episode in the interest of transparency this is our fourth time trying to report the info intro. Literally. Both of us are absolutely shitting ourselves about this episode.

I'm just going to tell you that from the off. It feels particularly for me, I think, although actually I just don't want to put words in your mouth out, but I'm just going to guess. We're feeling very vulnerable and anxious and terrified about doing this. But the hope is that the lessons that I, basically, I took my shit to Jacqueline this week, right? And it's kind of unique shit. It's kind of like unique to influencing shit.

But I know that the lessons that she taught me, the things that, that she said the advice that she gave will be applicable to all sorts of people in all sorts of problems so this is really an episode for anybody that's ever been bitched about slagged off criticised spoken nastily to it's basically learning really what it means to be okay with other people not liking you right and like how you can get there because i think that's really important right but the context for all of this is that my bad my reason we're doing the it's the wrong way around is because this whole feed this whole thing feeds into my bad and we kind of want to have a debrief at the end. So we weren't supposed to introduce it.

We've introduced it. But just, yeah, we're talking about something that I'm fucking terrified. I'm terrified. I'm terrified. So if you could just sit on your hands while you're listening to this and just not Google anything until you've listened to the end would be eternally grateful. Exactly. They're horrible, hateful places that you don't want to get caught up in. And we will speak to you after the interview. Hi, everyone. Jack's back. Jack's back. It was another emergency.

Every time she gets a text, it's like one of us is in a meltdown and we're going to deal with our shit publicly for reasons best known to herself. So you're back, thank God. How are you? Thanks for coming. I love being here.

It's always really fun to have these conversations with you. And I love that I get, I'm like on emergency dial, you know? Literally. Yeah. Yeah, it's like the fourth emergency service. Yeah, exactly. But that's good because we get to have royal conversation

and this is what I love about talking to you too. It's like always so honest. and real and raw and straight up and um you know yeah i mean aren't we lucky possibly we need too much of our shit out there but today's going to be such a massive overshare on my part that I'm probably going to have to retire but we're going to go out with a bang um and I'm like preemptively really anxious about talking about it because normally we would deal with our shit and this week it's all on me but it was my idea so I'm going to be brave and push through but obviously it was you I get this mess.

and it's like, Jack, need you, Tuesday, 11. I was like, okay, I'm there. It was going to be a private session. I was going to call you and I was like, we could deal with it old school. And then I was like, nah, let's do it. Let's open this up to the masses. Yeah, exactly. Let's like just make this absolutely terrifying.

So I'm going to acknowledge it in the off from the off that I'm a bit nervous to bring this up because I know that the people that I'm about to talk to you about kind of get like a perverse, sick satisfaction out of knowing that it's got to me and knowing that it's hurt me. Do you know that? I do, but I'm also, I have to be honest, and it has hurt me. And I also think that they have the potential to keep going and hurt others very catastrophically. So I don't particularly want to be that quiet about it. But I also feel that what you've taught me over the last few years is really, really valuable. And I really need reminding of it at the moment because I just feel very vulnerable and upset by what's happened. And I

want to use this for other people who might be listening who also feel hurt by the words of somebody else to maybe take stuff from because I know to an extent what you're going to say and I also know I'm not going to want to hear it but I also know that it's very valuable and I would like other people to learn from this as well so with all that said I did a bad thing I slipped and I fell what did you do and I face planted onto my keyboard and I basically Oh, there's a dog in there. Sorry, with the huffing and puffing. I'm not, yeah, exactly.

So I went on a forum. There's a forum that exists that literally exists. I've heard about this forum. Go on. Just to annihilate influences. And that's just like, I know. I know. When I say out loud, I'm like, this is so sad.

But it's something that has affected a lot of people, a lot over the years and really, really affected them. I don't know anybody that's unscathed. Like, I don't know anybody in this field that they don't talk about. And I don't know why. You know it's a bad thing when you go looking for it. Like, why do you look for the criticism? Yeah, good question.

But I was, this was my bad. I hold my hands up. I was in the bad space. I was just feeling really vulnerable. Whenever I take my laptop to bed, it happened. The last time we checked it, you and I did it together, Al, was when we had COVID. And it was like, it was the last time I was feeling vulnerable.

and I don't know why I do it to myself, but when I'm feeling small and sad, I'd like, I've described it to you as self-harm once and you told me I wasn't allowed to use that phrase, but that is what it felt like at the time. Well, you could use that phrase. Yeah.

Because it is, actually, a form of. So, yeah, I don't remember saying you can't do that. Well, you were saying it in a nice, empowering way, saying that I shouldn't be giving these people the power to harm me. Well, I mean, it is a form of it, right? It's like, you know, we could start there, if that's okay, of like, why would we do these things when we feel that way?

And I think that's an important conversation to have, right? And when we feel insecure or anxious or scared or, as you said, vulnerable, we can do things that harm us. It's a form of like, you know, we get into this kind of cyclical thing of like, I don't feel good, so I need more things that show me that I'm not good enough and I'm not this enough and I'm not that enough. You've done it by going on to this website. other people do it by you know maybe binge eating or gambling or you know sex or drugs or alcohol right like

there's i would always start to want to understand the why of that's um those actions before you even go further about other people the question is why we doing that to ourselves and when we can look at that and unravel that that's very powerful why am i in pain and looking and looking to hurt myself more it's really important and actually um this is really the real deep inner work which is beautiful work sorry sorry it's beautiful work to do because this this is how we find our peace and it's really i can feel it in my soul like i feel touched by this space because you know my story you know i was an addict a drug addict and you know anorexic and depressive and blah blah blah blah blah blah for 10 years of my life and I was constantly in pain looking to do things to, you know, feel better about myself in a way that

I wasn't actually feeling better about myself at all. So the question is when we pull away all of these things that we mask this stuff with, the question is why? Why are we doing that? So if you're feeling vulnerable, it's about exploring that space rather than looking at what you've done, which is sort of the plaster over the wound of then I went on to this weird website. Yeah. Right. I mean, we don't have to get into that now,

but I think that's an important conversation. I hope this is making sense to you guys. Totally. Totally. I have to use that space better because I, and it's actually really rare because I'm a really positive person by and large. And I have a lot of energy and I've said this to you.

I struggle when I stop. I'm not very good at stopping. And so when I'm like a bit sick or a bit run down or tired, that's when I feel very like... That is such an important space to learn to sit with ourselves. You're not the only one with that, right? Like most people run away from themselves. We all do. Oh God, that's late.

We do, right? I'm like, I wrong. We do until we don't. We do until we don't. Until we can learn to sit with ourselves in peace, we're always going to be running. And that is what I call doing in quotes, the work. I bang on about this all the time. We've got to do our work where we can sit with ourselves

when we aren't racing through work, racing through relationship problems, food problems, this problem's work problem. Sitting with ourselves and being at peace is priceless. So that's the work I would suggest for you because you're sitting in front of me and we're having this conversation with you to get into doing of what is it that I'm running from?

What is it that I'm frightened of? What is it that I feel vulnerable about? and the thing is we've all we've all got that until we do the work right like it's okay yeah it's okay and we do it with love and we do it with kindness yeah right god this means me for so much better that is so powerful because in my head we i mean me and you we were jumping straight to the like they made me feel bad how do i feel better part but that's actually such a good point of like why well everybody says that to you with these things it's actually the first thing that anybody says right so after i got married like the comments and

Daily Mail were obviously horrendous because their comments in the Daily Mail. And the first thing that anybody says isn't like, oh, bless you, like poor you, that those people were utter assholes. The first thing everybody says is, well, why did you look? And I actually really get that question because why did I look? I literally, I went looking, I knew it wouldn't be good and I still looked. And actually, the Daily Mail doesn't hurt or affect me at all. So that, but I think I've made my peace with that in a separate way. But I find it interesting that that's always the first question is always why did you look and it's like and it's annoying because I'm like but why did they do it but then actually that's completely irrelevant and they did it for all

of their reasons and that's nothing to do with me so I get the line of questioning but it does always feel a bit like victim blaming and annoying it irritates me though that line of questioning because I challenge anyone to know that there is you know threads of stuff being said about them and to not be interested in the slightest to look that's very stupid and that is like clearly someone who has no idea of how it feels or doesn't have any experience in that area because that's a very human thing to do, isn't it? We're not, we're not robots. Yeah. Now I know. I don't think I particularly want to go back. Because I think I know what it will be. And even doing this episode, I'm terrified because I think it will obviously be sending

more people to go and look. And that's going to create a bigger thing, which scares me. It all just scares me but it shouldn't I don't know yeah I mean I would like to get you to a space where you can look at that and be unaffected to me that's where the power lies that people can say things and do things and whatever and I choose to remain unaffected by that space and that's a very important place especially if you're doing what you're doing to try to get to because people will always have an opinion and and often it will be not correct you know that's the other thing is like so much of it is wrong totally and I can't like because they're so mean you can't go in there and be like actually guys like you're probably right about this and I am this and I am this but I'm not this

so the question says two questions first of all why you care and second of all and second of all why you need to tell them that they're wrong like I've been in you know in a situation where you know articles have been written about me in specific situations and um and the comments were not only misogynistic but you know funny to me as if people could comment on a part of my life that they knew about which of course they didn't they weren't in that um relationship yeah and um i think that it was it made me giggle i looked at these comments and i was like wow like these are grown-ass people commenting on things they haven't got a clip about like what's going on in these people's lives yeah and you know again that's another conversation to be having

about i don't think that we should hand our power away to people by being able to say your words hurt me yeah i think it's i think that we can be hurt by words in the first instance and then we must look at how to think about it differently in order to feel better. So it would be ridiculous of me to go, oh, you know, this person said that and you should feel fine because there's a process to getting there. What I'm trying to say is you can get there. Yeah. It's weird because I think like some of it hurts and some of it I can laugh at and I know that's my shit for like the things that I feel insecure about that they'd say

that I can be like oh like if I don't know but I'm annoyed like some of it like so rude about how I looked on my wedding day but why would you care so the question is when I looked at the photos

it ruined how I saw them because it was like I was so annoying oh no because I'll cry it's okay it's like the best day ever like ever and I just said I loved it and all these photos all these comments were just like you know

she just looked so trash she looked so this like she looked like like a hair just like shit her dress was so ugly like she was trying to do this and she does it and i was just like fuck like like like cuns for a stop but also like just when i looked at the photos i was like that's you just start looking for all the bad that other people can clearly see that i just hadn't seen and that was like just gutting and i think it was normally with my appearance i don't care i'm like come at me it's my face i can't change it but like that was just the best day i was like why you like That just hurts for some reason.

But why do you think that hurts then? Because I don't know. I mean, I was there, right? So I'm very aware you had a great day. Best day of my life. And I'm very aware that you loved your dress. I'm very aware that you loved your makeup. You loved your hair.

And you had a beautiful day getting married. So my question to you is, if you had a great day and you loved how you looked and you loved, you know, the experience that you had on that day, which was magical and beautiful, but it doesn't matter what I think you thought that why do you then

subscribe to a different way of thinking when someone says she looks like her makeup's rubbish like why? I like the makeup they just thought my hair was trash okay so let's say so let's use that as an example right? My heart's so good it looks so cool it's so annoying

but why are you jumping in the ring with it? I've got no idea but you do yeah I don't know like I don't know and it's really weird because wait and hang on slowly really it's important so you know that you loved your hair let's use that as an example so really

you know it's a good one so you love your hair you're happy with it you feel good in it which is really the most important thing yeah so you feel good right yeah then some random yeah that you don't know right at all you don't know anything about their life some random sits behind their screen yeah taps a little comment which is okay they're allowed to and says her hair shit why would you let that it's just a question it's a question yeah why would you let that affect you i have literally got no idea you must do because you're lessing it no i know and i'm annoyed with myself because i don't i don't know because they also they say way worse shit on there they say that Alex is cheating on me that should hurt way more and it just doesn't i'm like where would

he have the time like he's always in the house so then why would it matter that someone thinks your hair doesn't look great. I don't know. And that's what I've, I've literally been sitting with that being like, why do I care more that they think that my husband's cheating on me that, that they think I've got shit hair and I don't care about the cheating thing, but I do care. Maybe it's because I know he isn't cheating, but I don't know that my hair didn't look shit. I have to say you've just hit the nail on the head. Is it because it's my own insecurity? Boom. Pam. If you, and I always use that as an excuse, as an example with, with people. Like, if you die your hair purple, right? And you love your purple hair. You're like,

I fucking am rocking this. And you walk into Alex's house, Alice is like, oh my God, love your hair. You're like, yeah, I love it too. But let's say you dye your hair purple, and you're like, I don't know, I'm not sure. I just, and you walk in, and Alex is like, your hair, mm.

Which you definitely would. Right? Yeah. Then you'd be like, oh my God, my hair, my hair, my hair. The point of that story is, until you love your purple hair, yeah, everything else is going to affect you. So it's all about,

like the pop songs about you have to love yourself first guys you shouldn't laugh about it it's so true no i know sorry i'm laughing no i'm kidding i'm joking but like honestly we do laugh about it because very like yeah man love yourself like oh uh yeah first of all i'm english and that doesn't work and second of all like so naff but it's so true yeah until you love you and it can start with acceptance you know and it can start with like it's okay yeah it doesn't have to be like amazing but I have to love me fully and completely in order to not be affected by what other people think or say about me. Is there any way that if you're not fully there on the...

Because I actually do think I'm pretty cool with myself and I know with my work that I'm doing my best and it's obviously not going to be enough of them because the fundamental thing that that website hates is women making money. And they don't realize the irony that by clicking on that website, they're giving the owner,

who is a woman called Helen, by the way, $375,000 a year in Ad Avenue. So that, like, that makes me, that gives me a little laugh. But, so they hate that we do ads because they hate we make money. And that's just what it is. Like, I can't, we can't get away from the fact we need to make money. Why should we? If we were men, they wouldn't, it's so misogynistic.

It's so stupid. And I genuinely, I can't get my head around that. But I don't know. I think with my work, it's like, I feel like I'm doing my best. But I think the problem with our work maybe is that it's like you show up to work, but you are your work. So it's just like everything's fair game. So like this is a thing. We don't have something to, we don't have a company to hide behind.

Like, yeah. And you're in an environment where people are going to comment, right? Yeah. So you have to be strong enough in your brain to know that they're going to comment and be unaffected by it. Yeah. Right? Like this one's going to hate my hair. okay right this one's going to hate my what I'm saying this one's going to hate this this one's

going to say like you know I'm sure you know of course you're going to get that stuff right of course you are it's what you want to do with it and I think that actually these people you're going to think I'm crazy here but it's a gift because these people are your greatest teachers they're your greatest teachers that's the irony they are your greatest teachers because from that you grow I have grown from people that have have done that to me right those people the people that have been like horrific have been my greatest teachers because I learn about my self-worth about who I was about how to think properly about how to live through people that that tried to you know bring me down I think I put that in

back of my book I think there was like one paragraph at the end which was like to everyone that tried to bring me down abandom me hurt me rubbish me lie to me blah blah blah blah blah blah thank you because you've taught me the most but you see it's really important to know that you've got the power girls that's really important to know and if there's websites with people wanting to be rude about other people like okay we can grow from that space I'm thinking back so like you know with the so the two the two synarch situations there Alex cheating on you and then like people thinking you look shit on your wedding day right and where there is there were loads more scenarios I'm just bringing you two.

But they're thinking about those two that feel quite different in terms of one just doesn't bother you and then the other one doesn't. Is there a level of like, because I'm putting myself in that situation thinking the reason it would bother me is because that is, it is so subjective how you look, right? And I guess like Alex, you know Alex isn't cheating on you. That's objective. You know the truth on that. Whereas it's quite subjective with like, how did I look on my wedding day?

And I think like I'm not putting words in your mouth. but for me, I would be like, I do still rely on the like external validation, the validation of others. And then that can. And then now you see your, you're looking at your wedding photos now through a different lens and through their lens. And like, how then can you undo that? And then strip away their lens and see what you saw initially,

which was that you loved, like you had the best day and you just, it was so happy and you loved how you look rather than suddenly seeing it through this lens of like, oh, my hair looked shit. Or like, how can you strip that away once you've, they said my dresses see through it I'm like I know it wasn't I I just wonder why you guys are getting in the room with it like I don't understand why you would want validation from anyone else especially on your wedding day right we're women no that's not good enough that is not good enough because the fact is if again if you go back to I validate me I decide what I look like I decide what I think and what I feel and and whether I think I look good or whether I don't think highly good that's for me to decide and nobody else then you'll basically immune to this stuff, right? There will always be, as I said, people that are going to comment. And, and again, I think those people are the people that need the most love

because they're the people, because fundamentally, right, if you're happy and you are cool with yourself and you like yourself and you enjoy your life and you live and let live, you're not sitting at a computer writing comments like that on some random website. You're just not. You're happy people don't do that. They just don't. So, so you're already dealing. with people that need a lot of love, right? Because they're very, very unhappy. And unhappy people wants to make you feel unhappy so that they feel better about themselves. So you can either jump into that or you can say, wow, I'm so sorry that that person feels they need to sit behind a computer, write about someone else's hair. And, you know, maybe they themselves are

having a bad hair day. And I just send them all some love. It's a choice. But how to make that leap from I'm seeing these things and now I'm seeing myself through a different lens because maybe I'm not quite solid in myself. By doing your work, by doing your work, that's how you make the leap. Because triggers are your teachers, right? When you're triggered by something, you are being taught something. So you're either going to stay on a level where you're going, it's them, it's them, it's them, they make me feel awful, or you're going to choose to elevate yourself and go, okay, I can't point

my finger out anymore, I've got to point my finger back. Why am I triggered by someone saying my hair looks bad on my wedding day? What is it in me that is upset about that? Why? Why? And that's how you get there. There is no shortcut, right? We do live in this generation, don't we, where everything should be now. Doing your work, there is no shortcut. You just got to get on and do your work. And then you start to unravel this and unpack it and then go, oh, now I get why that bothers me. Okay. And I'm asking this as well because there will be like this is on a, this is like bitching and gossiping on steroids, you know, because like the, you know, normally people don't have access to tons of hate about them. But this still happens a lot.

People gossip and bitch about people all the time and often they hear it. And especially with social media nowadays, it's, it's, this will apply to a lot of people listening as well. So if you, So, okay, so the first step, I guess, is to, well, the first step is to question, like, why does it make me feel this way? And then the seconds, I'm just, tell me if this is right or wrong. Then the second step is to identify it and say, like, this is why I feel this way. So if you can get to the root of that and be like, it's because I'm insecure about this, how then can you shift your mindset? And, like, what are there tools to be able to then strengthen? and yourself and I mean you know this is not a plug but I will say I've written a book about it and there's in that book there's worksheets and there's things that you can go through to understand yourself which is really helpful and there's a school online the life class where there's a foundation course where you can go through and understand how to do this and then there's working with me and if it's not with me it's other people but this stuff is quite

difficult to do on your own so you can I try to identify it yourself first through your thinking what am I thinking here and then sometimes you need to call in extra help you know and and that to me is priceless because I think it was Einstein that said you can't fix the problem with the same brain that created the problem and that was definitely my journey right which was I thought that I was quite an intelligent person I mean I'm not academic I'm dyslexic I can't do maths but I sort of knew you know well I know how to sort of go through life and be as good as I can be but then then I would hit these road bumps and that's where coaching would help me because I just couldn't figure it out myself and there's no there's nothing wrong in asking for help so if you know I'm a believer that

you can have a very peaceful life and you can have complete inner peace and I'm and I live that I believe it and I live it and I got here by doing a lot of work so we can either sit down and moan about it and be unhappy about it and be in quotes a victim about it or we can say I don't want to feel like this I need to learn what to do and I will get myself some help to get there. So nothing is impossible, right? And again, like when we go back to the hair thing, we would ideally look at why it would bother us so much,

really unpack that. And then if we're stuck, we would say, right, I need to get some help on this. And that is how it works. Possible to do, it's all possible. I also feel like there's more power in realizing and this is something that like, despite the fact I do seem to have spun into a huge problem.

breakdown over this like I do real and I think it's just because I was feeling vulnerable and I had a really sad week last week anyway so I I just it was like a self-harm thing but it's really nice to know that you don't have to take it all and that's something that you've taught me like you don't have to take all of what they're saying as fact and I think like before and not using online as as an example but using like my real life like you know you think back to examples of when people and people say things particularly as like kids or teenagers people say things are so mean that they probably never think about again but that sit with you and they hurt you so much but the thing is the one thing you've got to remember about this is it's never about you no and like that's so important to understand like

when I wrote my book there was a couple of comments um and one of there was this one comment and it was like wow she's all right she must have come from a wealthy family she never had to worry in her life this person never knew me I lived in a squat at one point with nothing and so I read this comment and I was like that's quite funny to me that you that you're some random person you know nothing about my life you've made what you thought about me a fact right you're clearly bored shitless because you've then written it in a comment and I'm and I I'm sad for you because I think wow how must your life be what about if it's people that you do know in which way yeah so if it was

No, not you, I won't use you as an example, but if it was like, like one of my friends, not necessarily on these forums, but like in my real life that said something mean to me, how do you cope with that? How do you know then that it's nothing to do with you? Because you can't say, well, you don't know me, because they do know you.

Or they, you know, I mean, they do. Objectively speaking, you know, say it's your mom or your friend or whatever. How do you then sit and be like, no, this has nothing to do with me? Because a lot of the time what people say is just their opinion. and it's just their view and their judgment. And we all go around in the world with different views and different judgments on everything.

That's what makes the world go around, right? But if Alex comes to your house one day and says, hmm, the hair, you probably need to have a hair wash. We need to leave my hair alone. Right, right? You either make that comment something that is negative. You make that comment something that is neutral or you can even make that comment into something

that's positive and humorous. And that's your decision, not Alex's. Yeah. So even when, you know, when you make a comment, in quotes, mean in your head and you go, that is mean, that is already going to take you down. So when we say, oh, God, that comment is really mean, not it does it take us down, but we've also handed our power to someone else. We could say, maybe they're having a bad day.

Maybe she's stressed about something I don't know about, right? Maybe she doesn't mean it in a mean way. maybe she loves me and thinks I should probably wash my hair, right? There's so many different ways we can think about things. And that's why doing the work's important. So that we learn to go from that negative, powerless place into a space of sort of indifference or love. It feels much better.

And that's my work to do, right? Even as you're like describing that, I'm imagining like the comment, either like permeating the skin or just bouncing off. And like the freedom of it just, bouncing off and then such freedom going into nothing such freedom is that feels really special to have the choice like that's something that I've really appreciated because I think I know again I've

been in this bin but there would have been a time where all of those comments every single comment that was ever made about me would permeate but a lot of them I just choose to be like nope so you're 50% there then I'm on the way great well then that's something you should look at because and don't underestimate that if you're 50% of the way there you should be patting yourself on the back going, how great is this? I've got 50% of these comments I'm totally cool with. 50% not so much so I've still got a little bit of work to do. But haven't I come far? Yeah. That's great. I'm proud of me. Or you can go, oh my God, this girl doesn't like my hair. Your decision. Yeah. It's weird. Like I just, yeah, it's weird that they care

that much. Is there something biological innate that we, we don't, we have like an emotional response when someone says something negative about us, is there something innate going on there that we initially have to deal with like, is our like, how I'm imagining it, imagining it is that like our animal brain is like triggered and then we have to deal with that response before we can move on.

Is that right? Is there something innate going on? I think everybody wants to be originally, everybody wants to be liked and wants to be connected and feel part of something. It's totally normal. And that's okay. It's when you hand your,

power for other people to validate you and your existence that there's a problem right and again it comes down to when you do your work to like yourself enough which doesn't mean you know you're like i'm the best thing in the world it just means i'm right with myself i make i know i know what's great about me and i know what's not great about me but i'm cool with all of it when you're in that space this other stuff matters less and less and less i also think it's as we age as well i mean i'm sort of double your guys age I think, ish. Not hers. Not hers, okay.

But I think as we age as women, we do get more confident and we do get stronger in ourselves and our way of thinking around this kind of stuff too. You know, but doing your work is really important. Really it is. Can I say something that you're probably going to laugh at me for, but I actually think it's been a really

important thing for me. So I have judged the Kardashians for like ever because I didn't know anything about them. I just followed them online and I saw them doing all their like skinny t-shirt and I probably just bought into all the like misogynistic shite that they're just whatever whatever toxic and stupid and vacuous and they just do selfies and have sex tapes and all that stuff I just I fell guys into like the the daily male trope about the Kardashians and then I decided to start I actually sat with myself and I was like I can't keep like

having so many opinions on people that I just know nothing about like it's a really weird thing that I have so many opinions about each of them and Courtney's wedding and Kim's this and I'm like I don't know anything about them. So I was like, okay, I'm going to watch the show because I feel like I need to have a bit of an educated, I need to form an educated opinion. And even that, I'm going to take it the picture song as a TV show, but I need to be realistic about whatever.

And since I've watched it, I've had so many, like, mini epiphanies in myself because I, like, I've learned loads about them and I actually ended up respecting them more massively. But I've also recognised that they're whole people, and some of them are really flawed. And on some days, they annoy me. And on some days, I've never watched reality TV,

before so I'm on a journey here but like some days they're really annoying and some things they do are really bad but they're on balance and it's really nice I get to like create a whole opinion on a whole person it's not a whole person because it's reality TV but like I can be a little bit annoyed with Chloe one day and then I'm like why am I annoyed with Chloe? And I'm like she's having a tough time like her husband's just left her like absolutely gutted and then I'm like oh poor Chloe then if I'm in a bad mid and she's being annoying I'm like it's probably to do with me I know I sound mad but it's been really good for me to like realize that people are whole people and you can not like certain parts of people and still like them in general or you can not like them at all

and that doesn't matter but you don't really know them right no i don't really know them but that's my point but you don't really know them no so you're forming all of these opinions and all of these judgments on the snippets that they're showing you yeah and you're making your judgments and your opinions and your views on only from your perspective of what you think it's i'm saying and like it's making me, I think it's making me a more understanding person because I'm feeling more fluid with how I was always one of these people that would like sit quite regimen in like an opinion and of a person or like an expectation of a person and it's been really nice to just watch people so much that I can just very fluidly like some days I love them and some days I don't

love them so much and it doesn't matter and I think like that's something I want to take into like all the areas that it's just like I don't love this that you're doing but it doesn't matter that I don't love it and then there's a difference isn't there like so your opinions change which is totally allowed okay we're all allowed to have our opinions change and what we once thought maybe we don't think as we you know the following week or the following day we're allowed to change our opinions and there's a difference between you having all of these thoughts in your mind which is great versus you having all of these thoughts and then sitting down at a computer and putting it down somewhere do you understand like that difference is massive as well yeah right yeah I realize that we just keep basically talking about it in the context of people going online and doing it and I think that's quite unusual so for like people listening it's probably more likely that I don't know we've all got like judgmental friends right and well I'm I mean you know if we've got very judgmental friends we might want to look at that right like we can have friends for different opinions like I my friends are very strong women and there's not many of them there's

like four or five strong women around me that we have different opinions all the time and we have heated debate about our different opinions but it's not judgmental it's just different opinions and it's lovely and then we have a completely different opinion and then you know we talk about it and and it can get heated and then five minutes later it's like oh my god you know i've never thought about that thanks for explaining it and off you go love you see you later it's very different between i've got a different opinion versus someone is judging me about this this and this that's different yeah and i guess the scenario that is in my mind because i hear a lot of women say this to me all the time is that friends or family actually mostly family members

rarely friends saying all you could do with losing a bit of weight or like should you really be eating that or you're a bit overweight and do you think you're healthy do you think this is healthy those kind of comments I think are really common in in families so that's what comes to mind when we're talking about this like that's the scenario that is yeah and each one of those is going to be different right so I could I could talk to you about each one of these things you just said in five minutes slots of all of them because there's a big difference between is someone trying to be

nice to me because they're worried about me is this someone else's stuff and nothing to do with me is this what they think and it doesn't apply to me there's like so many different responses to that fundamentally it's no one else's business

what you look like what you eat what you drink what you do it's only really your business and what you do right and so that's important but again each comment will be very very different you know so yeah it's again that's that again is why doing your work is so important because once you've done your work you can really differentiate between what's your stuff and what's not if someone's trying to say something in a loving way or if they're this or if they're that you can work all that stuff out literally in a second right yeah and that's something that I've talked to you about before

like I'm a very sensitive person but people can say things like that to me now without it permeating because I mean someone might say to me oh you could do a dropping a few pounds I'm like according to whose standards like right and again that's because you know what is right for you you've got your own back you like yourself enough you've done your work you're fucking fine with where you're at and you go out into the world in that specific thing in your life life with weight and food and body and you go out there and you have got your shit down so that's why you're unaffected yeah now if you can do that in all areas of your life you're laughing yeah right you're laughing because there's always going to be people that want to give you their opinion and

their judgment that's okay they're allowed to it's what you do with it that matters and that's you know what I always say of like who do you want to be I think that's a good point you made about as well your friends having opinions and your friends being judgmental because Because, I mean, while it's all very well and good to say, and that's obviously the point we want to get to where these things just don't go in and we just don't care. But I guess we also don't want to be around people who are constantly passing judgment on us

and adding negative stress into our lives, right? Sure. But again, you've got to understand yourself before you make those decisions. Like, if people come and see me and they say, like, that's it, you know, I'm getting a divorce, I hate my husband. And I would say you can't do anything until you've got your mind right. Once you've got your mind right, you then create better feelings

and then you get the right action. But you can't just go and do that. Like I'm going to get rid of this friend because she's judgmental. Well, hang on, you've got to do your work first. Maybe she's not. Maybe it's your stuff. And maybe she is. Sometimes you take things personally.

Like I always would feel like I was being judged and I'm like, I'm probably not. I'm just an incredibly sensitive person. So I would take everything as criticism and feel like I was being judged when I'm probably not. I'm just going to reverse this conversation. So I hope you don't mind. But did you like your hair at your wedding? Yeah, I thought it was really cool.

So then that's what I'm saying. I don't know. Sorry. That's what I don't understand. There has to be something behind that for you. But it wasn't just the hair. It was just all of it. So if it was just the hair.

So let's just stick with that for one second. So I just want to crack this with you. So you said that you liked your hair. Yeah, yeah, I did. So that one comment that somebody made... There were quite a few of them being out. Okay, but that one comment of your hair, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, does that one comment upset you or hurt you?

Maybe it was just reading them all in one go. Okay, so that one comment, let's say, I don't know, whatever a name is Louisiana. She says... You are giving her a huge amount of credit that she would have an actual name because she won't. It'll be like a.12569. You're completely right. I'm sorry.

So a dot 1-256789. her one comment or his who knows right it was her obviously one comment about your hair which doesn't like your hair that one thing did that affect you just that one comment I must have done because for some reason I sat in bed no but think about it for a second just think about can that one comment let's say there wasn't the others did that one comment upset you no uh probably not I mean I think all of it but I think I upset myself

like they didn't upset me I know I upset myself and I know I took it all on board like so then it wasn't really about the hair was it no okay so that's I mean again we could get into a whole session here I know we haven't really got enough time but you started off saying it's this thing around the hair for example that was really mean but when you actually break it down and break it down and break it down and we we take it because you can't generalize so much when you're doing this work you've got to be specific yeah and you look at that one specific comment that probably didn't affect you no I think the other the thing that the thing that I will admit to have been affected by the most is that they think I'm and I realize it sounds

mad to say it out loud but they think I'm a bitch and they think everything on Instagram is like a line they're trying to prove that I'm a really nasty person is that what hurt the most that's what hurts the most but why would that bother you because I'm like because I feel so defensive because I'm like I don't think I am a nasty person and I don't think I've ever it's not really in my nature to be mean I don't it doesn't sit very comfortably with me I don't really like to do it I definitely when I was younger will have had mean thoughts and I know that was my own shit I can see so clearly that I will have been a bitch probably internally mostly because it made me feel better about myself like I was insecure so even like reading the daily mail like I'd think shitty things

because it made me feel better to like slide her off in my brain and I didn't really say it out loud I was I don't you know I wasn't like I wasn't cool enough to be a bully like I wasn't a bully or wasn't anything like that I just I think in myself like I probably didn't breed like nice thoughts for myself but as I've got older and as I've like done more on line and like more in this like it's something I love being nice and it's all I want to be I don't I don't want to have any negative because you're a healthy person yeah because you're healthy my own shit but it's really simple yeah but that's why it hurts because I'm just like but I'm not am I and then I'm like what if people can see something that I can't see but that's too much am I a dick

Why would you hand that power away? Also, people are allowed to not like you. Yeah, no, that's fine. I don't mind that they don't like me, but it's like they're trying to prove that like I'm secretly a massive bitch. Well, go on then. Prove it.

Yeah. Yeah. Seriously, go on then. That's a really good point. Like, go and prove it then. And by the way, whoever's going to believe it is going to be in that camp and whoever's going to be like,

mm, okay then, is in that camp. And also, I suspect that these people don't care for the truth. they don't care that if she's a bitch or not they want they just they're they're fabricating something because it makes them feel good I suspect that they don't care for the actual truth it's just nicer to have this narrative that's super negative and like makes them feel a little bit better about themselves but it's just on you've got to keep reminding yourself these people are not happy comfortable healthy people there's something going on you know I had a client once

and he you know he was a multi multi billionaire so he had the funds to do what I'm about to tell you because most of us we don't but he had the fun somebody left a really really awful comment on something on his Instagram and he doesn't live in this country and he got a security team right he found out he spent a load of money finding out where this person was and and he found him so he went with a security team there was like 20 of them and they knock on this guy's door and this guy opens up the door and the client said to him I want to know why you said, and I won't say it, you know, on my, on my Instagram. And this grown-ass man starts crying.

I'm so sorry. I just lost my job. I was having this terrible day. I really didn't mean it. And that to me was, is the epitome. I never get that word right. Of what's actually going on behind the scenes. Because, because healthy, and I will keep saying this, healthy, happy people, people,

that like themselves, people that have got a life, people that are good people are not sitting down as A1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6,7.com writing negative shit online. They're just not. They were really rude about Feel Good Friday and I didn't do it and I was so upset with myself. I didn't do it on Friday because I was so affected by what they said.

How sad's that? Oh God, I'm gonna cry again. They were so mean. They were saying how lame I was and how cringy and how embarrassing and all this stuff. But you know what then? are they watching because that's how they think because because that's what they want to do they want to watch and then they want to spew out their hatred and more for you and i mean that would

love for going oh my god they don't like this i won't do it right what you're doing really cringy like it isn't it i mean yeah people love feel good friday but why are you even questioning it again um if you had enough strength in yourself i think because i do sometimes think like my job's really weird like am i just a massive lucre just like dancing or friday so i do maybe feel about but like, I don't know, but it was just like. So that's exactly what it is, right? So because you've got those thoughts in your brain about, am I just a massive loser doing this, am I, am I, am I?

That's why you feel this way. It's got nothing to do with their comments. Thada. Seriously, nothing. Because if you go in like Alex does with, you know, her body image, she's rocking her. She doesn't give a shit what people think. So if you go in going, I fucking love my feel good Friday.

Loads of people do. It brings happiness to a lot of people. I love doing it it makes me happy I'm rocking it then when someone's like oh that's rubbish you don't even notice it

you're like all right then yeah I was annoyed that I did notice it and then I was even more that I just didn't do it on Friday I was like I just yeah I just didn't do it like I just did

you know the other one yeah but you're allowed to be upset and and do what you needed to do on that you know you're also allowed to yeah right you're allowed to

yeah I mean but I don't want to I don't want to sit and feel it. I don't want to sit and be like a victim to... So you know what to do. Yeah, it's got to get the fuck off. You know what to do. Yeah.

Well, you've got to do your work. Like, you know, and you've got to get into understanding how to think differently about it. And you've got to say, I'm not going to let myself feel like this on this. Like, I've done my 24 hours of being upset about it. It's been a week, but yeah. Okay, well, you can have another week. You can have as many weeks as you want. Until you're ready.

And when you're ready, you'll make the change. As I said, and I always say this, there is nothing wrong with feeling how you'll feel. right i'm a big believer of fucking feel your feelings otherwise it comes out sideways right feel your fucking feelings there's nothing wrong with that and then when you're ready do your work yeah pick yourself up yeah when you're ready do your work yeah and the thing is is if you can make peace with daily mail comments this is these people are any different from daily mail commenters they're not different people they're probably some of the same people there is no difference Yeah, and I would say to you that you and I at some point should sit down and have a proper unpacking session about what's happening with this specific instance because there's work to be done.

Yeah, for sure. Right. By the way, we've all got word to do, right? But this is, you know, something that if you're in the field of doing this, you want to change, which of course we know is possible. Yeah. Yeah, it's really weird that some of it just goes in and out. But then I know it's my shit. And it's kind of empowering. I used to, I was saying it before, it used to be really. annoying when people would say like, well, if you don't like it, why'd you look at it? But actually, if you flip that, the other side of it is, but I do have the power not to look at it. And I do have the power not to be affected by it. And that's a nice feeling in and of itself, because otherwise you kind of live feeling like there's always this bad thing happening. And I said it to you at the time on Tuesday when I looked at it last week, because I was like,

I've kind of known it was there and I've had it in the back of my mind. And it's been like, I should, I need to know what, I just, or like, I'm curious, I'm curious. And now I know, and it's not great and I don't really want to go back there. But, yeah, like, I don't need to have it hurt me. But it's not some big, deep, like, cave that you mustn't enter. You want to be the person that's like, I'm fucking entering this cave with, you know, my light and I'm looking at all of the stuff and I'm giggling. But that's what I was going to ask you. Do you think it's a good thing to just forget that it's there, pretend it doesn't exist, never go anywhere.

near it. No, I'm not. I don't think you should be in fear of anything, really. I think that, especially with what you guys do, like you want to be empowered and you want to believe in what you're doing. And, you know, that's a much healthier way to be living, right? Like, we're going to do this podcast. There will be some people that love it, some people that think it's shit. Some people be like, yeah, I got a few things out of it. Some people that would be like, oh my God, it was brilliant. and it really helped me. None of that can we control. But what matters is we're sitting here

where I definitely am thinking, I'm hoping that this helps some people. I'm also very aware it won't help other people that will choose not to want to listen, right? And that's okay. And there'll be some people that will slag it off. Nothing to do with me. That's their choice.

Can you just explain, because people, because I just explain the, I actually do understand it now, but it took me a long time. And just for anybody listening, when you say what other people think of me isn't my business can you just explain can you just break that down and explain to people what exactly you mean by that what i mean is what i think of me matters more than what you think of me and as long as i can go to bed at night and put my head on the

pillow and say to myself you know i did the best i could with my clients today i did the best i could at you know the podcast today um i was i i tried to be kind i tried to be helpful i tried to I didn't hurt anyone. I didn't, you know, steal anything. I'm not, you know, I'm just being the best I can be of being me, which is, you know, waltz and all, right? That matters to me more than what you think of me and my day and everything else. So you will have an opinion of me. You will have an opinion of me. Our friends over here will have an opinion of me, right? They've all got their opinion and and that is not my business right you all do you and that's why i called my book how to do you right you do you and i'll do me and that's it so that's why what you guys think of me is none of

my business i can't control it i can't fix it i can't change it i can't anything it and you're allowed to think what you want and have your own opinions and your own judgments right and i'm also allowed my own too as long as i've got my back my opinion of me far more important because i live with me all I want to turn this on its head a little bit and ask because like you said these and I imagine I reckon that a few people who are on these forums will be listening right now and as you said these people do need a lot of love there's clearly something like not you know awry in their lives what advice would you give them what would you say to them if they you know came to you for a session or if you had the opportunity to speak to them like what would you say if well I don't

think those people would come to me. I'm not sure that anyone who's writing a, you know, A451, 2, 34, 5, 6, 7 is going to go, I'm a really mean person and I need help. Now, if they do, like, come on in. Right? Come on in. But what would you say to them? The first thing I'd say is, it's fucking amazing that you've reached out to get help because you know what you're doing. Doesn't help you or feel good for you or anyone else like that's amazing it's where I'd start but those people are not brave enough they're much happier spitting their venom outwards right and not looking at themselves that's why they don't get any time in my brain because they're not my people my people are like hi help with this what do I do that that's cool like I've got all the fucking time in the

world for those sorts of people that wants to you know be better and if someone did want to be better if one of these people did want to be better if they if they listen to this and thought oh fucking hell actually this isn't this isn't great what I'm doing this detrimental to my life as well yeah what would you I would say ask yourself why you're doing it and you know they're not they're not bad people right there's a difference between bads versus unhealthy in your minds right they there's and remember you've got to look at how they've been brought up what do they know what are they living with you know what have they been taught right and we're all allowed to change so again like people that are doing this are just unhealthy in their minds

and they might want to become healthier and that's okay yeah i actually really like that you said earlier about being able to view them with love and it makes me feel so much better to be like you're not bad people no listen we've all done things right like none of us are perfect as you said we've all changed our mind we've all changed our opinion none of us live this perfect life where we're perfect all the time what matters is am i doing something that actually might not be very nice and maybe i should look at why i'm doing that and i want to be a better person right that's okay but again like there is no bad person who's doing it they just you know it's about it's about learning and educating ourselves and becoming better people if we want to be yeah they might not want

that because i i get it as well i do i'm putting myself back when i was really in the trenches with my weight and body image and and stuff and it was all consuming and i was obsessed with like gotta get thin, comparing myself to absolutely every single woman possible. I would like look up celebrity weights all the time. Like I was just, I was literally in the trenches with it. And it made me feel good to see like a celebrity putting on weight. And I'd want to gossip about that with my friends or my mom and my family and be like, oh my God, have you seen her putting on weight? So I actually, I can, I can see it. I can understand it and like realize that these people aren't any, they're not like a different species. It's all, it's a, it's a, it's,

all a matter of like circumstance and yeah and what's going on in their minds yeah and and environment and I do I do see that so but I think you can yeah yeah that you can see that it's such a gift yeah but I can see how people fall onto the platforms as well like I had a friend once tell me that she well I mean the the other side of these platforms is it's not just me they go for them and I say that they've not left anybody unscathed they go they don't give a shit you got stage four cancer you're about to die they don't give a fuck they'll go for you and they'll go for you hard and I'll go for you hard and I can't actually forgive them for that because I think it's psychotic. But that's my personal beef.

We'll talk about another time and I don't want to get into it now. But I also think, like, I can see how it happens. My friend told me once that she saw someone and she slipped, literally. She's not in this space at all. She's not in this world at all. She's like a normal gal and she had a baby and she saw an influencer promote a pram. And she was like, oh, that looks like a really good pram, but she forgot what it was. So she googled at this influencer's name and pram into.

Google. And the first thing that came up was this thread, right, this website. And it was like, I don't know, just bad comments about this, this, this, this, this influence around her pram. And my friend went on there and she was like, I need to, I need to defend this. This is crazy. Like, I have to say something. And she went on and she said she was literally, and then you can't make a comment unless you make an account. And she said, she got so close to making the account. And then she thought, no, I can't, I can't go in there. But if she hadn't been in that space, it would have been really easy to make the account. And then I don't think it's that far a cry from,

so you're watching, you're watching, you're watching, you're loving. And then this person does one thing. And then you think, oh, I don't know, I don't know if they should have done that. Because it's so invested in this person's life, I think then it's not a far cry. You've already got the account to go on there and be like, did anyone else notice the story? And it's not necessarily a bad thing.

But it's like, and then it just gets worse and worse. And I'm not really explaining this to you, Jack, because I know you all know how it works, but I'm just trying to explain it to anybody who's listening. I can see with a massively empathetic heart how it happens because I don't think anyone goes on it and they're like well I'm just going to go and get my like sharpen my claws and just go and like get this person I think a lot of people end up there with good intentions and then they just they're having a bad day and someone slightly annoys them and

then and you do I imagine it's quite a nice sense of community and like and I also wonder they like you know with my client I was talking about like I often like I do wonder like if you find that person that's left some horrible comment like and you actually speak to them face to face I like I don't know, I mean, I'm not in this field, so I don't know, but I wonder what that conversation would be. Like, if you actually meet them and say, hey, why did you say that? They're been mortified. I mean, I suspect they've been mortified. I suspect it. Again, I don't know, but I could only assume that they'll be like, they'll probably start crying, go, I'm really sorry. I had a terrible day and I'm, you know, I hate my job. A man wants to this to me. I found it

yesterday because I saw a conversation about this with a TV production company, weirdly enough. And that, and that would be cool because I'd get the opportunity to actually meet the baddies but a man sent me a message once and it was a really abusive message from this guy called Gary and I replied because with men

I find it a lot easier so I just replied to him being like Gary what the fuck like why did you send this message and he replied going oh Han sorry I don't want to sound like a net loon I think my cancer's come back and I'm just in a really bad space

there we go I was like this is what I'm saying but that's I think I had that once I had an Instagram I had a DM and someone was really really rude about something like really i can't remember it was age ago and i responded and i was like hey like what's up you know is everything okay is there anything you'd like to talk about you know it's that's

that's quite a powerful message there are you okay and then it was like i'm so sorry exactly that you know i've just lost my job i'm really nervous about this and i didn't mean to take out on you and i was like it's okay yeah so this is what i say about we you know it's not i feel so much better i literally I felt for the last week like I've walked around with like something hanging over you no like something sitting on my fucking head I felt like I've literally had like a block

I haven't been I felt like a cloud whatever I felt like I felt very like gloomy and sorry for myself for the last week and for the first time I'm just like oh fuck it fuck it I don't care I'm done yeah they're self-pity parties sometimes you know yeah it was a week though like I don't mind them for a day and also it's not really I'm like oh yeah

and I'm annoyed with myself because even on Alex's birthday were having a lovely day and I didn't even want to share anything because I was like I just don't want them to be rude about it like or whatever this is what I'm saying about doing your work guys like you don't have to sit in that space yeah yeah I don't want to do that you know can't be bothered woo onwards and upwards stunning can't wait too feel good Friday this week I'm going to be so annoying do extra dancing yeah it's gonna be it's good they're all like she's a really bad dancer I'm like well obviously like that's fine you're not supposed to be a dancer I know also I always think your dancing is quite good same actually for what it's worth okay i'm out i'll see you in my office

this week i'm gonna be in every day um this is the i have you learned i feel really good yeah yeah super interesting i just love i love the idea that visual i've got a really strong visual that i really like that came to me came to me came to me came to me came to me um that i imagined as you were talking about it of like literally your skin being a barrier obviously as it is um literally and something can either go through permeate or it can just bounce off and it is so powerful to know that we actually like the powers in our hands completely we have the choice to and this is like and this is for any everyone listening like anyone listening because this okay this situation is is unique but it's you know on a on a different level

will be will resonate with so many people listening that feel this way and I think it happens to a lot of people on a different scale totally and it's powerful to know that actually we have we have the power and the controls in our hands

and we're able to say I'm going to let this I'm going to let this cloud my judgment and my vision of me now or I'm just going to let it bounce off me and I like that visual I'm seeing it going in like stunning um Jack thank you so much

Thank you. I can't wait to see you again. What's it going to be next time? Yeah, I'm busy, yeah. No, I'm just kidding. It's a pleasure. You're not. We're not.

We know where you live. And I think also we just need to, you know, end on, you know, what I would like to say is, fundamentally, everyone's just doing their best with what they've got. And it might not be your best or my best or this person, but people really are doing the best with what they've got. And we just need more kindness, you know, for ourselves and for others. And that is a really good way to start finding. more peace.

I love that. I am a hippie. Perfect. Thank you so much. We love you. See you next time. See you next time. See you next time.

Okay. Bye, guys. Thanks for having me. Okay. Okay. Okay. How you're feeling? How you're feeling?

She's great, isn't she? She's great. And God, she talks so much sense. And I really do think that this, all of this stuff is, like you said, so applicable to everyone and we will all have been in a similar situation like obviously not the same but like a similar situation at some point in our lives and will in the future as well unfortunately so yeah it was brilliant advice and I feel like I watched the weight lift off view as we went through that interview I feel like you kind of I saw you get better I don't know did you a hundred

percent and that's why so we actually were going to obviously put this at the beginning but I wanted the context first. My bad, really, was that before we spoke to Jack, like I was, and I know I mentioned it last week as well, I was so affected by finding those forums. Like, you can hear it in the episode. But you're right, Al, like, it was literally like a cloud lifting off my head.

And it's the weirdest thing, but, and I'm sure there's a chemical, sciencey thing to it, but the feeling, because it was like last Monday now, well last Tuesday it was so crushing and it made me so scared of everything like knowing that that was happening it made me not want to go on Instagram it made me like not want to show up to work it didn't make me want to have fun with my friends I just I didn't even want to be me because I was just like oh my god I'm so awful because all these people think that and I'd and I'd spent like 10 days feeling like that before I spoke to Jacqueline and I should have opened up sooner and I should have called

her and whatever but then I actually thought no I want this to be a podcast episode because I want other people to benefit from this because I think it's you know vulnerability is really can be really powerful and and I'm really pleased we have done it like this but you're right like listening to her it lifted so massively and I was so drained on Tuesday night when we when we finished recording but then on Wednesday it was like the first day that I just felt like I could show up again online and I like we went to the euros and and that's my good and we'll talk about that in a bit but I it was like the first time that I could like I wanted to come back online again and like I didn't do Feel Good Friday the weekend before because I was so

self-conscious like because of what they'd said about it and yeah so I was just so hurt by it and so affected by it and so it was really valuable it's like you know that thing they say like a problem can feel so big in your head and then sometimes you say it out loud or you write it down and you look at it and you're like huh like that's just some words or like that's just a like it's so small and you write it down

or you say it out loud and in your head it's been so so big and like yeah it just felt like that it just felt like all of the power like all of the like the venom got like sucked away because I realized these people weren't as powerful as I'd made them out to be

so yeah it was really valuable and my bad was definitely how much it had affected me and I'm annoyed with how much it had let me got to me you know I'm annoyed that I sat in that space for as long as I did but I'm up now and I'm out and I really hope you know I don't think you know this podcast episode if anything could have made it worse and that'll be next week's bad if it's like turn all you lovely people against us because you've gone on there and been like oh my god these people are right these girls are awful um so yeah watch this face um and and i'm very aware that we could be putting fuel on the fire and that scares me to death but i just don't think that silence is is

viable anymore and i i i firmly believe i know i said it in the episode i firmly believe that that these forums will kill people and i actually believe they want to they will they will and that that's the scary thing is i don't think they care that i really don't think they care which is so horrible yeah Deb spoke about it before she died that they were going for her it was you know they don't care they don't care that you've got cancer

they don't care that you're a child they don't care they don't care no everyone is fair play fair game sorry yeah and I think sitting in silence around it I understand why people do it and we'll probably regret this massively but it's not in either of our nature to just sit down and be steamrollered So I am I am proud that we've talked about it even though I'm again scared shitless and I don't think it'll change because like I say that I hit that website had seven million hits last year but I hope I don't I always set right when I talk like this I just think I'm going to sound like that girl and mean girls and it's like why can't we just all like bake a cake like we did in middle school and like just be nice to each other and I'm like every time I say anything like preaching kindness I think I sound like that but I just yeah I

Just a little compassion, a little empathy, but kindness. I know, but it's true, though. It's so true. And, like, it actually really wears me down talking about this stuff because the fact that people like this exist and that people, but even I say people like that, it's just, it's people like everyone. It's not like, they're not a different species. We know that.

But, like, the fact that they actively want to do this. And then the fact that we have to talk about this and we have to, like bear the consequences of this as well. I'm not saying oh, you know, wo is us. But I mean like for Debs, like that was, you know, you were really close to Debs. Like I wasn't, but that upset me from afar and it upset you on a much greater level.

But the fact that they were trolling this, they were really spewing hate about this woman who was dying, who had two kids. And who was doing, but like, but was doing so much good, like so, so, so much good. for the world and yet they still have the and it just it really makes me despair and I just I hate it I despise it and also these forums are so biased as well so so so so biased you can't you're not allowed to be on there and be active on there if you want to be positive about

people or if you want to stand up for people it's not allowed and I know this because my sister got banned she actually went on Debs she doesn't know Debs either but she was that and Debs put it on her stories and she was horrified that people were talking about her. So she went on and wrote, replied to someone that said it's disgusting that Deb's profile account is all about her, her page is all about her and her story. And my sister responded to her and said, well, isn't she entitled to considering that it's her page and her story? And my sister, as my sister's account was reported and then banned, completely banned and gone. She can't go on it anymore. So it's incredibly biased.

as well and that's the that is the really scary and sinister thing that anyway i just you know i mean i'm also loath to give them so much air time honestly but then you know i yeah i know there's another argument to that another side to that and it's like they like we are lucky that we've got good support systems for when this does happen to us good support systems and also that we're able to access help like in the form of jack and you know i I'm very lucky that I'm in a position to afford therapy but then other people who have forums about them who read stuff about them

they might not be in that position and it just makes me so angry and cross and just for anyone and everyone who has shit said about them and this goes for like across the board as well for absolutely everyone not just like influences or whatever but it's just yeah I don't know people can be cruel and so mean

and yeah and I'm aware of like not wanting to turn this into a pity party for us. But, you know, we said when we were doing this podcast that we're going to share our lives, the ups, the downs, the raw bits, the vulnerable bits, the good, the bad and the awkward, right? We pledged to do that. We said we were going to do that,

and that's what we're doing. And here you go. Here's it all laid out on a plate. There you go. This is very bad and very awkward, because I am. What Gemma said in the episode last week, being trolled is embarrassing. I actually am sick of using the word troll, being bullied, because that's what it is, is embarrassing.

Like, even reading that stuff about myself, I'm like, God, how embarrassing. Like, they just, like, because it's just mortifying to be bullied. Like, yeah, it's horrible. Especially when, do you know what bothers me? I don't know if this is the case for you, but, like, the things that are true don't bother me. Like, if they'll say stuff that I already think about myself, bad about myself, like, that doesn't bother me. but it's the stuff that's not true then because you have no way to defend yourself

and you can't constantly be going on to stories like being like, I just want to clear this up because it's stupid, you shouldn't have to but so much of it is just not true but like I said in the episode they don't care for the truth this is the thing, they don't care for the truth, they don't care to find out the truth their version of reality

is much more interesting to them. And let like I love this. It's something I'm really actively working on so we recorded that episode on Tuesday, it's now Friday. Let other people be wrong about you. Like, let them. And that, I'm literally sitting with that. I'm like, holding on to it every day.

I'm like, let them be wrong. Let them be wrong. Because it goes against everything in my nature. I need everybody to know the right thing. I need everybody to, you know, like, be on my side and understand me. And it goes against all that I am to let, like, misinformation about me exist. You know, like, some of the things that are said are so far-fetched. And I just think, okay, let them be wrong.

Let them be wrong. Let them be wrong. Let them be wrong. And it takes, I have to literally sit on my hands to let them do it. But, but be wrong, bitches. So we are. So. Yeah.

So. We are terrified. Like properly just shaking our boots, miserably sad about this whole episode. Yeah, we've both cried multiple times today. So that's been fun. And like, like I said, this is literally the fourth time we're recording this. But it's going up. And once it's up, it's up.

And that's it. so here we go. Oh God, it's terrifying. So that's your bad. My bad, unrelated, but I'm in, I am in such a foul mood this week. I don't know if you noticed, did you notice when we went to Manchester at Venus? Who you're grateful? Okay, that's good.

I have picked fights with... I'm caveat. You weren't on grateful when you arrived at Houston. You were in a flu-stuh. Yes. But you rallied and you were on grateful. to the rest of the day and the night. I did.

And then I got back home and took it all out on Dave and picked a stupid fight over. Stupid fight with him because he'd literally left out a piece of paper. I'm not even joking. He'd left out a piece of paper, a pair of scissors. Bastard.

And some cellar tape on the table that had been there. Sounds to mean like he was wrapping you a gift. No, he wasn't. He was doing something for the post office. That he'd already done, could have been put away anyway, got back, sorry, I had a full-blown meltdown. It obviously wasn't. It was obviously more than the paper.

It must have been, right? I had a full-blown menti bee. No, nervy-bee. What do people say? Menty B? I've never heard of those expressions. Nervy B. So that was fun.

So, yeah, I'm in a foul mood, hormones. Pray for Dave. Hashty pray for Dave. Yeah, we've been in a foul mood today, though, both of us. We just sat right. So foul. Yeah, when we first recorded this earlier, I mentioned that one of the things

that had appeared on one of these forums was a photo that someone had taken of us on my hen. And I've honestly, I wonder if I kept the video footage because Alex's face just went from like, like, human to like statue. And then that was kind of it. And she was like, no, not doing the awkward, no, that's like, that's the end of that. That's, okay, bye. And then we just finished the episode.

And then we just sat on Zoom and like, stony silence for like five minutes. And then you started crying and then I started crying. and then it was like, what's happening? It blindsided me. It literally like shook me to my core. Like I feel like we're a few hours on though. I've worked through it. But my God, like just the idea

that these people are out and in person and in real life and it just, oh, it's just terrifying. Yeah, that was a real invasion of privacy. So yeah, so yeah, foul mood. But next week is better, right? Next week is better. No, it's not. You know what?

You know what's happening next week? The episode's coming out. Well, yeah, also. wave it's not you know what though do you know what has made me so happy so i am going to scotland next week for a wedding on the friday and we're going on the wednesday and um one of my friends who's going as well sent screenshots of the in the group of like this is the weather in london and this is the weather in in edinburgh and it's there was a huge like vast difference okay so it's so it's 18, it's going to be 18 in Edinburgh and 26 in London. So I replied like, oh, thank God for that.

And she was like, what do you mean? And I was like, well, that's great, isn't it? Like, it's going to be so nice. The poor bride will be like, oh God, it's going to be like, rain, rain, rain, rain, rain. Like, please, no. I'm escaping the heat wave. I'm so happy. Oh my God. That's my good. No, our good is collective. I'll let you go. Our good is, well, if you follow us on Instagram, you'll know we went up to Manchester to a sold out old Trafford to go and watch the women's euros the opening game where England beat Austria 1-0 and it was literally the coolest fucking thing ever because ever right like obviously Alex and I are not exactly what springs to mind when you think football pundit but um it was so great like we had the best

time we were invited with Venus who we worked with for ages and spoiler alert we are currently working on getting one of the lionesses on the podcast so watch this page yes um yes Venus we've said it out loud now so please you have to so I used to care about football a lot when I was a kid right I was born around the corner from Stanford Bridge and my family uh Chelsea supporters through and through my brother is like obsessed like he went to Azerbaijan to go and watch a football game last year like the boy travels for his football he cares passionately i actually i it might be the only thing i've ever seen him genuine no that the dog one of the the dogs and the football it's like if it's not that he's not interested we we really grew up with football on all the time and my brother

really cares about it and whatever but when i was younger i used to care about it too because like we just watched it and whatever and i liked it and i thought it was really good every single time that i mentioned that i like it you'd be like oh so anyone watching the Chelsea game later and they'd be like, oh, you like Chelsea, do you? Right, well, who was, who was the starting lineup in the 1963 game? And, and for bonus points, can you name the physiotherapist please? And, and for extra bonus points, can you please name all the cleaning staffs name for the whole of that year? Like, it's so weird. They make you jump through so many hoops to say that you're a supporter. You have to explain the offside rule to anybody whenever you mentioned football,

even though they never make boys do that to each other, because that would just be weird and probably insulting, definitely insulting. And, and then all the girls will be like, oh, you only care about football because you want to get in with the boys. So I just thought, oh, fuck it. I don't care about it that much. I'm out. And actually, in recent years, football culture, lads, lads, lads, has really got on my tits. A fucking A-to-day. I think it's racist. I think it's violent. Like, look what happened after the men's euros last year, two years ago. It was just mortifying. Last year, even, I was just absolutely mortified. So I've gone off football in recent years,

right? And tell the women's, the women's euro. And I'm probably like an internal misogynist, and I just thought that they wouldn't be any good because they're women. That's genuinely probably a thought process that I had and I thought they'd be slower and less technical and all this random stuff that people think. And yeah, I was wrong. I was totally fucking wrong.

The game was great. They played brilliantly. Not a single yellow card or red card because they're not hooligans. And the crowds were lovely. The crowds were full of women, girls, which was so special, but also boys and men and fathers.

and sons and it was just fucking fantastic so yeah that's my good i'm a women's football supporter now i'm just going to say football supporter just not going to say women i absolutely loved it i have to say i was a bit like i i don't think i've ever seen a match before which i can't i i don't think i have which i kind of can't believe that i haven't because my family well my uncle was a steward at Liverpool, well, Anfield, Liverpool's football club. And, yeah, and so was my great uncle and, I mean, my family, like, die-hard LFC fans. But yeah, in recent, like, for the longest time, I have, at least, I haven't been. And I was a bit like, is it going to be boring?

90 minutes of just watching people kind of run up and down, is it going to be boring? And am I going to be able to sit still for that long? I was enthralled, absolutely enthralled, but also not just the football, but the atmosphere, like, it was so nice. And my, I mean, I think the last thing I heard about, like, someone close to me going to a football match, apart from Dave, but, like, was my family, my mum and, my mom, my dad and my two little sisters went to see Cardiff against Liverpool.

And they were, for some reason, they were in the Cardiff side, a Cardiff end. And they basically, like, got into a fight. My mom and my dad and my sisters obviously didn't act. get into a fight. But it was clear. I think one of my sisters cheered when Liverpool scored, so it was clear that they were Liverpool fans in the Cardiff End, which obviously spelt trouble for them. And then my little sisters are still scarred by it. It was horrible. Anyway, it just felt like such a wonderful, like, nice, inclusive atmosphere. And I don't know, it was just great. And like, the bonus was England winning. But like, I don't know,

I kind of just love the Austrian team as well. They were great. But we have. But we have, had a really, really nice time. It was great. I was nervous. And I had a, like, I had a sympathetic text from Dave before we went being, like, good luck, watching a football game with Al. And I was literally like, yep, I'm going to need that because I can't think of anybody less interested in football or anybody that I, anybody that I'd have a harder time explaining football to

than you. But we just, we threw ourselves into it. And I was, I was just so surprised by your, like. Yeah, I love it. But also, Owl, something that we've not mentioned is how good you are at football.

How is this not my good? How is this not your good? This was, honestly, guys, you'll have seen it if you follow us on Instagram stories, but we went, there was this thing at Venus,

right? Because we went with Venus and they had like a, like a cardboard thing with loads of holes in it, different size holes in it, and you got different points for different size holes.

And we got this big queue of people and we watched a lot of people missed the hole. holes. And it was a lot of men missing the holes. And I thought, if those men are missing the holes and men have been kicking football since they came out the womb, then we don't stand a fucking chance. That's lowly women, right? And sure enough, I didn't stand a chance, right? When I started kicking... You did. You got one in. I got one in the ten. So I got the lowest points available that wasn't zero. So that's good. So yeah, I did beat some

them. But it wasn't, you know, anything to write home about. Some might call it luck. And then Miss Lice... Misses, like, I don't know your name. anymore. Muz Light. Steped up. Meelea. I don't know. What is your surname? Still like. Oh, it's an ongoing thing. I'm not sure, but still light currently. Muz Alex stepped forwards onto the the tarmac and surprise pandits all over the world. It was unbelievable. It's stunning. Tell them what you did, Al. Well, I don't know. I didn't know what came over me. I just, I think it was the atmosphere. It all just like seeped into my blood. I was like, oh, I feel like an athlete.

But yeah, I know, it was quite, I know. Do you know what, Em? Like, I was saying this to date, because I told Dave, and he was like, I was telling him how, like, surprised, not surprised with you were, but how, like, proud you were and just, like, amazing. He was like, Em thinks you're really bad at sport, doesn't she? And I was like, yes, she really does.

She thinks I'm so bad at sport. The whole way up, I mean, a lot of people DM me to say that, being, like, you've got to start thinking higher of Alex's, like, sporting abilities, which is true and fair. Like, I've learned a lesson. never going to play you against anything um but you didn't help me because in the queue the whole way you're like don't make me do this don't make me do this am i i can't do this i don't want to do this

i don't want to do this so forgive me for thinking you had something to be embarrassed about and then you got there and you were just like i don't want to do this because i'm so fucking good at it and then bam she got on the leaderboard guys like she they put her on the leaderboard and when they put her on the leaderboard she didn't even know that there were points available she just shot anywhere so if she'd have known what she should have been aiming for you could have won the thing you could have you could have beaten ryan to a year's supply of raises and as it's done he's got it he's what you just let him walk away with that damn it could have been a seal oh actually my awkward was it somewhat so I put this on stories and I and I put like oh the um you know

em was so proud of me and then I said like oh she was trying to encourage me to go again but like I just didn't want to show everyone up it's tough at the top obviously a joke joke. And then someone replies to my DM and said, like, I just love, I just love how, um, how like overly confident you are. I can't remember her wording, but she said overly confident. And I was like, it was obviously a fucking joke. I'm obviously joking. I shot, I literally kicked the ball three times. I'm under no illusion that like I'm a fucking superstar. It was a joke. People don't, when people don't get my jokes, it annoys me. And maybe my, maybe that's me problem. Maybe my jokes are not clear. But I would have thought it's tough at the top.

pretty clear anyway um but you were at the top al i was at the top to be fair so in her defense in her defense were you joking well no because you were at the top and i imagine it is tough up there yeah it's been a big deal honestly it's really that's what i've heard that's why you want to be middle of the road just like me some middle of the road is yeah i'm not even middle of the road i'm slightly below the road and that's fine no one expects too much and that's the joy I think Jack of all trades

Master of Non is used in a negative way but I think there is nothing wrong than being a Jack of All Trades I don't think I'm a Jack of All Trades I just think I'm a master of non That's true actually I'm not a Jack of All Trades But you are out

I'm really not You can speak French You have a bestselling book You... Okay no I'm still going you nearly won a year's supply of races at Venus for kicking balls through hoops

you've played tennis you're good at swimming you do boxing you have footballers legs those are the room that's what I've heard the only thing you're not a master of is heatless curls but but I'm not I don't I do I do not excel at any of this stuff

like my French is fucking awful no my French is fucking awful wow yes but you didn't do French as a degree I dedicated for years of my life to French. And now I can barely get bonjoural. I'm literally like bonjourn. It's awful. So, okay, my awkward. You're awkward. Right. So niche. The other day, I went to the loo. I was wearing jeans. Yeah. I pulled my jeans down to go to the loo. Obviously, I pulled my pants down. Obviously. Pull my pants up first. Good. I didn't want them. I didn't want it all up at once because

that's just dangerous, right? So pants up first. Then I pulled my jeans up and don't know how it happened, but pray for me. Um, my zip, the little metal zip, got stuck in the lace of my pants that'll teach me to stray into the land of the sexy underwear and it sort of like went through like a little hole in the lace and as I pulled my jeans up it sort of pulled my pants up and I just basically gave myself a massive wedgey from the front and it was just a wedgey that's what gorgeous gorgeous girls do is it gorgeous gorgeous just girls with their underwear, pulling it up between the feckin flat. Yeah, ripped their fanny.

Oh my God, that actually reminds me. I don't know how this didn't come up in an episode prior to this, but you remember a couple of weeks ago and my gossip, a couple of months ago, and my gossip snapped? Yeah. It happened again now. Yeah. I had the same pants in a different colour.

How? I think I said I didn't want to put them on past, but smess and mess that rhymes with. make this one specific brand very nice sort of like lazy scollopy pants it's not scallops is it scallops

scallops yeah scallops scallops yeah scallops scallops I think like the fish like the barnacles yeah right fine okay

yeah so I had like scallopy pants and they're really nice but I got them in a few colours because well actually Father Christmas very generously got them for me in a few colours and yeah it must have been a design fault with the old Scalop

gallops because bam between the buck cheeks and piao and it turns that happened to a lot of people happen to daisy's daisy i was going to say same brand same same style okay so i i have it i have it i have one pair left i bought three shades i had a black pair i had a white and black pair and the white pair still uh i've got a white pair and that's still going strong so still standing it's like russian it's only a matter of time i actually i kind of like the thrill so i continue to wear it that's fun I know. It's the little things. Yeah.

Okay. So avoid those fishy-edged... Oh my God. Fishy-edged... Fishing-edged pants, I was going to say, and then I realised it was a bit gross. Yeah, okay. A bit gribbly that.

Anyway. Right. Right. Well, if you're here till the end, we love you. And even if you're not, we still love you, but you just won't know because you won't hear it. Thank you. Sad.

Thank you so much for listening. and yeah and for hearing us out with this we are afraid we are afraid why don't you break into song why don't you why don't you sing us out i i feel like that's what we could all do with our shall i shall i can you sing us out can you sing us out with um i'm a survivor please oh i thought you meant like oh okay okay no actually no i'm not going to do that i love that i was like oh how did the verse start and I was like no but what I can do is I can play us out okay and I bet even the wonder that is Daisy will even be able to make this fade out I don't think we're allowed to do copyright I don't think we're allowed to I think we're needs oh you're right we're not we're

going to need oh my god and you know who could do one of those Alex light No. No. I'm not in a singing mood. I'm in a foul mood. And I'm not in the right zone. It might pick us all up. But look. It might pick us all up. Never say never. I'm not saying never. I'm saying now, please. And I'm saying not now and also not ever. Not never, but maybe. I don't confuse myself. I was going. Maybe ever. No. Oh. Let's let these poor people go. You know what you could do to make up to them for that? Just a line. Let them go.

Just a little. Just a little. No. Absolutely not. We're survivors. Imagine the forums with that. They go fucking wild. They'll record it.

You might as well ruin their eardrums. That's true. Go on. That's true. Get them. No. No. No.

Pop their eardrum. Em, this is the pressure I was feeling. I was feeling when you. you were trying to make me play football. But look how well you did under the pressure. You absolutely thrived. What Al doesn't know is that she's starting the next game. She's part of a lioness's team.

Some people crack under pressure and some turn into diamonds, Al. And you, you're a diamond. I, I am not. I, I, I'm an eye sculptor. I'm done. Under any scrutiny, I melt. But you, you, you're called to a diamond. You scored a goal.

You scored a goal. Some of the men didn't score any goals. Yeah, well, no, but they're worth the ice. They're just water. We have had no access to any kind of football playing, any kind of ball skills. I have, I have a brother, you haven't, not with your four sisters. But you've had a bit of ballplay, you're married now. Anyway, okay.

On that note, loving and leaving you. Bye guys. Thank you guys. Bye. Should I delete that is part of the ACAS creator network. Thank you.