Should I Delete That? - Just Us: Sabrina Carpenter’s controversial album cover, IQ tests and an overshare…

Episode Date: June 25, 2025

Today, we take some time to show some major appreciation to Kesha, we discuss if we may *potentially* have low IQs and Em tells us about an important decision that she’s made this week! And we also discuss Sabrina Carpenter’s new album cover. Can we work out what her intentions behind the image were? Or do the intentions not matter when we consider it’s potential impact… Do you have a higher IQ than us and want to tell us your thoughts about Sabrina’s album cover? Email us on [e-mail]  JOIN US FOR OUR BIGGEST LIVE SHOW EVER! We’re heading to Edinburgh for our biggest live show ever. We’ll be taking over the iconic Usher Hall for one night only on 3rd September. Head to SIDTLive.com for more information and to purchase tickets. Purchasing tickets may or may not increase your IQ. Follow us on Instagram:@shouldideletethat@em_clarkson@alexlight_ldnShould I Delete That is produced by Faye LawrenceStudio Manager: Dex RoyVideo Editor: Celia GomezSocial Media Manager: Sarah EnglishMusic: Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, and welcome back. Should I delete that? I'm Alex Clarkson. Oh, for fuck's sake. Back off my name, bitch. I'm Alex Light. You really took the heat off me there. I'm M. Light. I'm Glaxen. And you caught me mid-lipzig. I was just having a moment with Keshe. Oh, I'm so sorry for not acknowledging that. I did think you just jumped in. Well, I was quite clearly mouthing something here, Al. I am only in the second verse. What were you singing? Well, I started with heart and dangerous.

If you're on one of us, then roll with us. And I know the whole song through. And then I'd got to the point, I'd got quite far in, if I'm honest. So, yeah, I was coming up to the chorus. I missed Kesha. Oh, you saw Kasha, Faye? I did. Like Mighty Hoopla.

Which amazing. It was so good. I'm happy for Kesha that she's still, that she seems happy. You know what I mean? She does seem happy. She does, yeah. And as she should. As she should, she should drive.

Yeah. It's been rough. Yeah, she has horrible time. And so brave to talk about it. And also, she's always going to have legend status in my heart because of the TikTok music video. Like TikTok before it was TikTok. Do you know what I mean?

TikTok. Oh, do you remember the music video? She's in the bath. She's a hefty eyeliner. Oh, my God. We just take a break and watch it together. Oh, please. Oh, my God.

I didn't think you'd go for that. Great. Okay. Homework for everybody listening. Please pause. Stop what you're doing. Go and watch the TikTok Kesha music video

and then we'll reconvene after you've done it. Thank you. Wake up in the morning feeling like P.D. Okay, I need to caveat this. I have to recede my... I stop. Everybody stop.

This song is aged terribly. She's woken up in the morning feeling like P. Diddy, which means she's waking up. She's woken up. Yeah, no, she's working up in handcuffs. Oh, shit. She's woken up with the weight of the law

underneath her. Oh, forgot about that. Can I just say at Hoopla, she made everyone put their fingers up. and said, wake up in the morning and fuck P. Did he, like, and fuck P. Did he? And she made everyone, I do not want to wake up this morning and fuck P did he. As in like, yeah. Oh, my God, okay, great. Oh, I love that that we can like own our, because, oh, God, that would be so. This is why, and this is a word to the wise, if any budding music artists are listening to

this podcast, don't mention other music artists in your songs, because when they inevitably fuck up, you don't want to have your song ruined. You know what I mean? Yeah. And that's forever your legacy. Also, if you are a monster, abuser, rapist, misogynist, asshole in general, please stop releasing fabulous music because it's incredibly frustrating having to lose the songs, the bangers of our childhood to your misdemeanors. Do you know, well done, like perfect for saying it here, that's really going to reach the right people. All those artists that are listening to our podcast. It is frustrating. It's more than a bit frustrating. It's depressing.

It's indicative of an era and a culture that I don't like. It is. Back to Kesha, a little bit. Fun fact, she's a member of Mensa. She's a member of Mensa? Okay. And she got a perfect score on her SATs, and was accepted to Barnard College at Columbia University,

which sounds like it's a big deal, I don't know. But instead chose to drop out before graduation to pursue her music career. But she's incredibly clever, turns out. Multi-faceted. Yeah, cool. Look, she can do all of that. Like that, sometimes I'm just. Like, you know, when they're allocating stuff, it's like, if you were God and you had a big

basket full of skills, and it's like, so I got some brains, I got some musical ability, I've got some support, like, why must they, like, I just, I just don't think it's a very fair distribution system. Like, they just passed me by. Do you know what I mean? Like, he's like, standing over me with the egg, with the basket full of eggs, and he's like, here you go. God is fair. God is fair. There'll be something. There'll be something. There'll be something. I told you I won the Good Egg Award in school. No, I don't mean you. I mean, I don't mean for you.

There'll be something. I mean for those people who look like they've been given everything. I mean for them, there'll be something. There'll be something along the line that they're like, you know, God is fair. If I wait long enough, a skill would be something, him. Hang in there. If you try real hard. Before you die, something will pull up.

I did. I took that as well. I was like, well, that's a knock on the shelf of steam, but I said, I should take it. I only realised because Faye gasped. I was like, oh no, that sounds mean. I didn't, I didn't mean that. But also, we can...

But also... You've got loads of things. Coming. If I dry hard enough. Pipeline looks busy. The future could be bright. No, you've got loads. You're dead clever.

That's why they gave me the good eggs. award. I'm getting the fat. Because you have to. I mean it. You're dead lover. Thanks. Thanks. I'm a good egg. Lady Garga is a genius. I know that. She's an actual genius. She's widely, she's got an estimated IQ of 166 making her exceptionally gifted. Two things, not to make it all about me. One, how do I find that my IQ? Because I am curious and how do they test it? Two, I think this is actually says quite a lot, but we're quite surprised in that there's this whole article about female geniuses. and women in the industry because we're all going to be surprised by these little tip bits because it's like these pop stars couldn't possibly be clever. Do you know what I mean?

Well, I'm surprised because they're busy. For me, that puts her, her creative genius kind of puts her in a different bucket to like IQ and sats and stuff like that, you know? That's what I mean. She's like white brain left brain and yeah, she has. Natalie Portman as well, just FYI. Her IQ is around 140 officially the threshold for a genius. Yeah, these people have been given too many eggs.

How did they test your IQ? Test. Mm-hmm. Did you pass it? You kind of answered your own question. You twat. Like, what's in the quiz? What's in the test?

Well, yeah, clearly mine's not reaching the threshold for genius, is it? No risk of that. They're like, what's even the test? Is it like general knowledge? Bear with. Is it math? What is an IQ? Leave me alone.

Oh, right. Oh, God, it sounds intense. There's a lot of logical reasoning, problem solving, mathematical ability, language skills, memory, and spatial reasoning. Yeah, I'd be fucked. Spatial reasoning. Mm-hmm.

What do they mean by that? I feel like just there I got my result. Yeah. 130 and above is considered gifted. How do you take... Lady Gaga's 166. Should we go and do this? these away from home and then bring our results in.

Oh, my God, it should be. We could have like a result ceremony. Okay. A results day. Okay. This is just trigger you because that makes, no, because you did well at school. For me, as someone who did not, when I hear those words, like, as I said that, the adult that I am, my stomach just like contorted into knots.

I was like, oh God, results. I'm going to be, like, measure, my brain's going to be measured and not being compared to my peers. I mean, we can do, we can do that. Can I let you know depending on my result? Is that all right? No, do you not. No, you'll have beaten me, I reckon

I dare I've got zero memory We know this That's true Literally, I've got a sieve for a memory That's true Siv for a brain Anyway

There you go Those celebrities are super super gifted So is Matt Damon In case you're wondering Says Lisa Cudrow I can believe that about Lisa Cudrow She gives big brain energy 154

Like whoa Yeah okay I need to go and test my IQ Okay Speaking of test Not going to dwell on it not going to talk about it. I haven't decided how long I want to talk about it, but I have decided to pursue some legitimate ADHD therapy for the first time in my life. This is exciting.

It's quite big news. Talk to us. I haven't decided if I actually want to talk about it because I feel like everyone is a bit sick of it. Take of what? I don't know, this conversation. Oh no, stop. No. Yeah. No. I don't know.

No one's sick of it. Like, I think I've talked about it before, but like I was sort of like told years ago, like eight years ago that I had ADHD. ADHD and I was like no like not me not my problem I got very defensive didn't take it very well just kind of left it didn't do anything about it as in motherhood I am definitely um aware that it's like becoming a bigger part of my life and my brain and like the way that I work and like I don't feel I don't know I've been kind of work like I've just been feeling so overwhelmed I was like I need to do something about this and I didn't know what to do I don't want to go on the medication I said a few loads before one and breastfeeding it being a big factor but but

But also, I just, it's not really what I want to do. And I didn't want to do it. It's like, I want to see what my options are. But I basically ignored it. Like, been aware of it, done the funny meme thing with you, been diagnosed it every other day by someone on Instagram. Like, I know, it is a, you know, it's not like I'm ashamed of it or anything. Like, I know it's there. Yeah.

But I just, I haven't actually dealt with it. And then I was trying to work out, like, what therapy I wanted. Because I said, I need to go back into therapy in some kind because I'm just so overwhelmed. So I didn't know whether to go and do like the birth, the birth trauma. stuff, which is what I was doing when I was pregnant and kind of look at like the antinatal depression and like look at that and wonder whether my pressure is coming from there from like a very intense pregnancy, this is massive overshare, but like coming from a very intense pregnancy and this kind of, which I do feel is like because I was so ill, it's like I'm constantly

trying to like make the most of being well and be the best mom because I was a bad mom circumstantially. I was the best mom that I could be but I wasn't the mom that I wanted to be because I was so poorly. So now it's like I want to be the best and I'm putting all this pressure on myself and I just can't find peace and I think probably it's quite linked to the pregnancy but then I'm also like a lot of this is ticking ADHD boxes and like I feel like that's probably a part of my brain I need to like yeah look at can you do both I'll tell this way I think so but I want to go meet with like because I've never literally that one person said ADHD to me and I was like bye I've actually never like looked at it within my life

properly. So I wanted to go and meet this guy, have like a proper appointment, like talk about it, see what that therapy looks like and then work out. Because I know what the other therapy looks like because I've done it so that I can kind of make a informed decision. But I think I said this to you. I was reading on his website, like I was reading an interview that he'd done. And he was like a lot of people use ADHD coping mechanisms like ice baths and long distance running. And I was like, oh, well, call me triggered then. I have been called out. The call is coming from inside the house. I don't remember that mean I sent you?

That it was like, you know, you're in your 30s when you do ice baths long distance running and for a trip a trip to Japan. And I have an air friar. That's it. That's it. I was like, oh God. But yes, you do tick those boxes. Yeah.

So I'm excited. Okay, I think that's great. I think it's really good. Ironically, I didn't confirm the appointment with him, so I missed it. Excellent, excellent. But I'm going to be honest, candidly, this is tucked into the middle of an episode, so I'm hoping only good friends are here. I had another court summons this week.

That's really the truth of why I have to go and see a therapist of some guy. It's my second. Does the court demand it now? Go to therapy and stop wasting. You know when you speed and you have to go to speed awareness course? When you don't pay your bills for long enough, you are sent. You've got to go therapy. Yeah, you've got to go to an ADHD therapist and get a check on yourself.

Yeah, it's not great. No, I think it's really, I think, I think it's safe to say, that you will get a diagnosis. I remember literally when I, and this was back when I didn't know a thing about ADHD. Like I had no personal experience with anyone in my life, anyone around me that I knew of.

And then I remember meeting you and being like, oh, this girl's got ADHD. Shit. So, that's funny. That's a good first impression. Yeah, yeah. Didn't even get her name,

but I know, I've got a diagnosis for her. ADHD. Yeah, no, I. know and everyone know like I feel like it is not a you don't need the diagnosis you just need some I've never needed a diagnosis I know like I mean so I when I when I first was done whatever when I was first told I had it um I rejected it wholeheartedly I was like absolutely the fuck absolutely not like absolutely none of that and it literally taken me years and years to be like

accept it well then I was told again by a therapist like a few years later and she It was like, I think you've got ADHD. I was like, those are you people. You stop. Stop it. And then I told on Instagram every day and then by everyone I've ever met. And like, I know it. Yeah.

And that's okay. Like, it's fine. Yeah. But I have read a lot about, um, motherhood and symptoms and whatever being exacerbated in motherhood. Yeah. And Lottie Dreyan talks about this. Yeah.

And the link with postnatal depression and ADHD is really high. And like, I'm not depressed by any stretch, but like the pressure I put on myself is crackers. Yeah. Yeah. inevitably, invariably, I don't do all the things I'm supposed to do and then I get called to court and the shame. Oh my God, the shame. And I snapped to Alex because the court was on the thing. And when I first got it, I was like, ha ha ha, ha, caught again. And it felt like there was peace. Really great reaction. There was peace in it because I was like, well, this is the thing that I live in fear that this is going to happen. And now it's happened. So that's quite peaceful. And then the next day I had this sense of burning shame. I was like, oh, you. loser this was avoidable and then Alex brought it up and I absolutely lost my shit. I thought the car's in both our names because there's unpaid parking bills.

I was like, the car's in their names. It could have been him. Obviously it was me. But when he brought it up, I was like, it's only okay when I say it because then he brought it up and I was like, well, I didn't see you paying it. Cars in both our names and then I made it into a big fight and then I felt even worse. So then I found a therapist. That sounds like it. That sounds like it was a you fault. Oh yeah, no.

Yeah. The blame is solely at my feet. I think it's very good for you. I think it'll be really good for you. Yeah, probably. I hope they can do something. Yeah, definitely. Do you think?

Yeah, for sure. Do you think it's like, it's going to help? Yeah. People work with ADHD coaches loads, I think. Yeah. Because there are so many coping mechanisms. Well, I mean, and they do work for me. And there probably really small changes that you can do that will like really help

your life. Yeah. Because when you explain it to a normal person, if I explain it to my mum, like, I just can't pay the bills. She's like, what do you mean? And I've said that from a very very privileged position, I can physically pay, I can afford to pay them. I just, I don't know what's wrong with me. And it's like, I cannot explain it. Like, Father's Day, I wait until the Saturday, 11pm, and I saw everything out like the night

before, I get it all done, skin in my teeth. Yeah, it's a horrible. It's a horrible way to live. Yeah, it's a horrible way to live. I don't know why I do it. It's a very cortisoly way to live, I feel. Yes, that's exactly it. Yeah. And then I, and then when I can't. get it done, I just sit in, I wallow in a deep sense of shame. Yeah, because it only works when you, it only works when you can get it done. It only works when it works. Yeah, exactly. And when you've got kids.

Sometimes it can't. Well, also, Father's Day at 11pm, that doesn't give you room to, like, order anything. Crushed it. I got it done. Well done. Thanks. Well, yeah. Got a clone, two personalised cards.

From where? Well, the personalised cards, they did come a little bit earlier. They weren't from, I actually did nail that and I was really proud of it. I actually, I, yeah, I hear myself a really big guy. The clone, selfishes. they're very good in London do they deliver

yeah they deliver fast I know all the same day delivery places in London if anyone's interested matches immediate did you do same day delivery

yeah and then you can get so many you know you can get AirPods on delivery stop it yeah I don't need them or one this is ADHD people are innovators I'm sure that every single next day delivery service came from

someone with ADHD oh my god that's amazing out of desperation yeah super useful yeah but it's still not a great way to live and I feel well well done yeah but it's still not a great way to live and I and I feel shameful. Yeah, it's just, it's, it's, it's not a nice way to live.

No, not for your brain. Not for your body. No, not for my body. You just, you need a, you need a calmer life. I wasn't planning on sharing all that, but I've done it now. Don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, I can tell you feeling anxious about it. Yeah, I feel really weird. Why?

Don't feel weird. I don't know. Just, I don't know. The cold summon things isn't great. Do you want me to share about something? Yeah. I don't have anything. Oh.

But like, I mean, like, do you want to make me make you feel better? No, I mean, I can think... I'm getting some condescension from your chair today. I can think. No, I can think of something. I can think of something. It's okay. Don't worry. I can sit. I can wallow alone today. It'll be fine. It'll actually be really good for me. I'm quite excited to meet him. Yeah, I think it'd be really good. Will you keep us updated? Yeah, for sure. Okay. Yeah, I didn't know what I didn't normally. I need a memory doctor. A memory doctor? Yeah.

No, this is a classic case of, I have really bad breath in the morning. Like, you're just giving me a consolation prize. It's not. It's not. It's not. You know how bad my memory is. It's terrible. It is so bad. Okay. It always has been. It always has been. I don't think it's a, I think there's too much going, I think there's too much buzzing around in there and there's just no space and things just fall out. Do you think you could put some things down? Um, no. No, nothing. No.

Are you sure? I could put, no, actually, no, no. Because sometimes I think that, well, yeah, it's not a helpful suggestion because people say that to me, like, my mom says that something, she's like, you seem to sit on the sofa and I'm like, and then what? How? How? When can I sit on the sofa?

Yeah, well, she actually said was you need a couple of, you need a couple of you sitting on the sofa. Yes. Yes. And I thought, well, yeah, that's not going to pay the bills. What sofa? You know what I mean? The house will be gone.

Yeah, exactly. So, yeah. There is always stuff that you can put down for sure. But, you know. We are delighted to announce our biggest live show ever. For one night only, we are taking over the iconic Edinburgh, Usher Hall on the 3rd of September to bring you an unforgettable night of completely unfiltered chat.

big laughs, and meaningful connection and conversation. Our favourite part of the live shows is always that you get to meet each other and we are so proud of the community that we've fostered here. And this night isn't just about coming to see us. It is about meeting each other and forging new friendships. Whether you're in Scotland already or you fancy a trip to beautiful Edinburgh, this is our biggest live show ever and we would love to see you there. Check the link in the show notes or in our bios to buy tickets and secure your place in the pre-show

meet up, meaning you can come alone and meet other like-minded, should I delete that fans. Brought to you by Simprove, the UK's number one gut supplement. All right, huge overshare out of the way. I feel deeply uncomfortable. I would like now to talk about sex, baby. No, not specifically sex. I'll talk to about sex if you want, but it will be from memory because I don't seem to have a lot of the time of my life.

Back in the day. Yeah, no, I can. I can make something up, but equally interesting, more interesting would be to talk about. Bonnie Blue, because we said we would. Yes. We've got some listener input. And this comes hot on the tail of the old news by now because the news cycle is ridiculous. It's on a quick spin.

Sabrina Carpenter and our album cover. Interestingly, both of these emails that we want to read out mention that. The Sabrina Carpenter one. Yeah, they've sort of made that link with. Bonnie Blue and Sabrina Carpenter. If you've not seen it, Sabrina Carpenter has a new album out. And the cover art is her on her knees, no body, on her all fours. On all fours.

Cat-Cow position, somewhere between, neutral spine. And she's, I'm just trying to fit a picture. And there's a man who's not visible, his head's not visible, and he's pulling her hair. Yeah. And it's giving big sort of dom, sub energy. And we know about those things because we've interviewed a dominatrix in that episode's coming out. day. Thank you so much. And she's like touching his trousers. I don't know if that feels but it does feel important. Yeah, caressing them. What do you think of the discourse around this?

And there has been so much. Right. I felt in my ignorant, overstimulated, had other priorities because I got someone to court this week, mind that it might have been a little bit of an over, over sensationalized story. I didn't think it was that big a deal. Did you not? No. You didn't think it was worth a think pieces. I did see a lot of think pieces and I thought we're thinking a lot about this and I'm not sure it's proportionate. No.

But we do love to think. So what do I know? What did you think? Is, I mean, I've skinned the surface of it because my capacity for think pieces is, I mean, there are only so many think pieces I can get through, you know?

We say this, we say this as think piece writers. We think, we write think pieces. We are as bad as. Oh, no. Oh, 100. I think we are, this is, This is another call from inside the house. But with my low IQ brain, I can't tell.

That was this episode. Yeah. See? Fucking hell. Yeah, but with my low IQ brain, I just can't, you know, I've got a threshold. Okay, and I've reached a threshold. We can't think about everything. But, okay, so some people are saying it's, like, iconic and ironic, and then some people

are saying it's just, like, incredibly misogynistic. Her music, what do you know of her music? I actually listen to that song three times on the way in this morning. Okay. Because I like to listen to songs a lot of times. I'm just going to dance around that. I was going to try and dance around it. I can't.

I'm weird. I like it. I like that. Yeah. I listen to them a lot. Yeah. See? ADHD diagnoses itself.

But, yeah, I thought that I like her music a lot. This one, I don't know. I mean, this new song, she's obviously enjoyed it. she's being baity because she had she said a high public romance all I think about this woman is that she's playing the game incredibly well and she's doing her job incredibly well

that's what I think when she does these things all of there I'm like yep well done like this is it's worked yeah do you think she's trying to be subversive transgressive like what do you think she's trying to do that's what I can't understand I can't work out what exactly she's trying to do

with it I think and I might be putting things into completely making things up and pulling things out my ass because I actually really don't know a lot about her as a person there is a lot and I'm fully judging her this is this could be a complete miscalculation on my part there is a part of me that thinks with our trad wife conservatism kind of era at the moment she looks and kind of fits the bill for sort of like quite conservative um the conservative like ideal like if you think for like a southern woman yes that's her big blonde hair yeah and depotin style exactly that so there's a part of me that

thinks that she and the cowboy boots and whatever that she's sort of playing into that demographic a little bit so with that in mind there's an area where I'm a bit like this might not be that helpful for the wider cause where it's sort of overt sexualisation from a with a from a woman who I have no doubt she is not conservative I've not got no doubt but I suspect she's probably quite left-leaning but she may be poster girl as one thing. And I don't know if you can sort of lean into that fan base a bit. And you can kind of have a bit of space there.

Yeah. That's one thing I think from looking at her. You think maybe she's being advised? No, not, no, no, I don't want to take it. I don't want to not give her credit. I don't, I don't know if I'm just articulating what I'm trying to say. I think she is playing to, as she should, the male gaze. Or as she has the right to.

And I think because of how she looks, the male gaze, the males gazing at her, the market that she perhaps is tapping into is quite a conservative one because she's sort of given the sort of Dolly Parton country-esque vibe. Do you know what I mean? And you think she's doing it like she's, well, that might just be willingly and she's leaning into it. Yes. And I think within that, that can be quite an exciting place that within that you want to be kinky and you want to be whatever. You want to be an empowered woman because it's just like, well, I look like one thing, but I am. another thing, but I don't know, or is that just, I don't know. I don't know if it's, it's interesting. I don't, yeah. Have I made sense? Have I made any sense? Yeah, I just, I thought she was very much like for the girls. I agree. I don't even, sorry, I agree. I think that's, that's sort of what I mean, but I feel like she is perceived as one thing and then she's behaving another way. I think that's what I'm trying to say. Okay. I feel like she's for the girls, but I feel like the men might

look at her and think she's for the boys. That's what I mean. Does that make more sense? So then you believe that that artwork, that the album cover is... I think she's done it for the girls. Okay. I think she's having fun. Yeah. I think where people feel quite conflicted and where people get a bit confused is because she looks like she's doing it for the boys.

Yeah. Because of how she looks. Whereas Lola Young, for example, when she's talking about sex, when she's writing about sex, she doesn't perhaps look as conventionally sexualized as we might. Yeah. As we are used to seeing young southern women, young southern white women be sexualized.

I think that's kind of what I mean. Okay, I get you. Does that make more sense? Have I helped myself? What do you think, I'm intrigued? I think it kind of plays to both of those things at the same time and it's probably quite a wise commercial decision for her to be sexy and also ironic. So whoever, whatever side of the audience you are, you can see it.

But that brings us to our point, doesn't it? That's like, at what point, if you are doing the sexual empowerment, like sex as empowerment or selling sex and if you're selling it to men are you being empowering do you know what I mean like the right to sell is the key so yes that's empowering

but at the end of the day you're still selling sex yeah to men I struggle to find that she did that in an ironic way because it's do you well it's just so like there's nothing subversive about it

okay hang on before you read the email I want all your opinion A nod or a wink to like, I know what I'm doing here. It just, it just feels extremely typical of. No, but I feel like she does know what she's doing here. Maybe she does, maybe I'm wrong. I think we might be playing to the idea that she doesn't because of, like, actually going back to those IQs, those high IQs. I think we might be underestimating her.

I think we might be thinking, oh, just because she's. I mean, and it's totally up for her interpretation, obviously, as is all art, you know. But this did warrant all the think pieces. Look at us doing all this thinking. We totally warranted all the thing. We should have read them. I know, idiots. Yeah, I just, like, there's,

there doesn't seem to be anything like transgressive about it. So do you feel like she's doing it for the boys or the girls? I think she's doing it for the boys. Do you? No, take that back. I don't know. I think she's either doing it for the boys or she's doing it for the girls that it just hasn't quite landed.

Well, and I do think it hasn't landed because everyone's kind of confused by it. And not necessarily in a like, ghost of, like, we just, we don't really know what her objective was with the cover. So I do, I do think it, maybe it hasn't landed, but it is for the girls, maybe. Okay. Let's hear, let's hit the email. Bonnie Blue. Let's see if they help us.

Yes. Thank you for sending in all your feedback, by the way. Super interesting to listen to, uh, to read. Hi, girls, love the pod. Listen to it every week. I love hearing you chat about these tricky issues. I instinctively feel in my gut that Bonnie Blue's actions cannot be feminist in a world of rampant misogyny, objectification and male entitlement, and an epidemic of sexual violence against

women and girls, these stunts surely just give the green light to men everywhere and young women, that women are just sexual objects to be used as you wish. I've also been thinking about Sabrina Carpenter's album cover, which also caused controversy last week, and ultimately, I think the same about that. In the real world context that we are currently in, I think putting images out there showing a man in a position of physical sexual control over a woman, especially to a female young audience is really irresponsible and I say this is someone who is for all women unashamedly embracing

their sexuality but if we're honest the images slash actions in these cases are very much for and from the male gaze in my view would love to hear your thoughts on Sabrina Carpenter on next week's pod too she just made a really good point and I think it's actually what you were saying earlier

like there should have been and I'm always loath when we have these conversations to be like to tell her that she's done it wrong or to judge her or you know what I mean so it's like I don't want to be like any kind of way it would have helped

if she'd perhaps been wearing yeah if we'd have had a wink of some kind like a little egg that was just like an egg is the word of the day but like a little Easter egg in there that was just like a t-shirt we're all in on this

or something or a tattoo or something yeah that was yeah because she's right it doesn't actually matter the intention like Sabrina's intention the interpretation is the day thing and it is giving and it kind of does play into this I'm sexualized I'm young and I'm being taken advantage of and whether how much say she's got in that maybe is a bit

irrelevant in the wider context of an epidemic of violence against women and girls but also I think there's a lot of criticism around her and I think like she doesn't she doesn't owe anyone that I mean the fact that we didn't we don't even know like does she have a message? Like, what does she stand for? It's not like she's already on this. I mean, yeah, she's in a position of power, but she hasn't, she hasn't actively stood up and say that she believes or, like, is for something. So, like, why do we, why do we then expect her? It is her right to sexualize herself. Of course it is. Yeah. To be subversive and to be whatever she wants to be. Yeah. Yeah, it's complicated. It is really complicated. So do you

put her in the same basket? I cannot get away from the eggs. Do you put her in the same basket as Bonnie Blue in terms of this conversation like are the two things is this part of the same problem I mean but both of those things are submissive they're both it's both in a very different way though like with Bonnie Blue it's extreme and probably likely violent I mean that's kind of what's insinuated with the Sabrina carpenter yeah but yeah you're right because it's not like it's not real life violence that she's subject to but are we just platforming this are we enabling or creating further entitlement yeah i know that i don't feel good looking at that sabrina carpenter image i don't know her intentions i don't know the intentions behind the

you know what the team wanted to do with creating that but i know that when i look at it i don't feel good what makes you not feel good i feel like it just it looks it's it's just reinforcing the very same thing that we've always seemed in like a dominant and a submissive relationship between a man and a woman. I don't see anything that subverts that. I think it just looks very... I feel a bit better about it, I think, because it's her album. Like, I feel better about it that it's her.

Like, if it was his album, this was a Farrell Williams, Robin Thick, blurred line situation where they're bending all these women over and they've got them nearly naked and whatever. That, for me was... That would be even gross. But they don't feel the same for me. No, they're definitely not.

I see them as like wildly. different. Definitely, 100%. But having said that, I also feel in a way there's something a little bit potentially, and I'm not necessarily saying I see this, but there is something a little bit more sinister about the Sabrina one than if we're comparing the Robin Thick situation, I felt that that was blatantly problematic. Whereas within the current climate and this sort of like rise of conservatism and stuff, there is an element of me that's just a little bit more uneasy because I can't work it out, Sabrina thing. I know. This is the thing.

And I don't think she said anything about it. I think she's actually... Not at the time of recording. But, yeah. Even if she had, like, didn't have makeup on or had, like, weird makeup or... I don't know. If she was less classically sexualite,

or predictably sexist. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But she doesn't have to do that. Can I add something? Yes, please. The inner artwork, I think it's on the record. It's an image of her.

on a bed with a man watching her. And it's supposed to be a reference to Lolita. That's what people are saying online. So Lolita, because I am ignorant with a low IQ, is an English language term defining a young girl as precociously seductive. It originates from Vladimir Nabokov's 195 novel Lolita, which portrays the narrator Humbert's sexual obsession with

and victimization of a 12-year-old girl whom he privately calls Lolita. I feel like that didn't make it any better. I think it might have made it a bit worse, actually. I think so. Yeah. Oh. Hmm.

That feels like a rogue reference. We don't know that people are prophesizing that she's said Lillita. That's not, she hasn't confirmed that. That image is much worse to me. The inside, yeah. I haven't seen that either. If it is empowering, we've gone around the houses as means of getting us here. And I don't know.

I don't know if we're just like getting old or whatever it is, like third way of feminism is and was, you know, about like empowering sexuality and reclaiming that. And it's like, this is all right. And it's just, I feel really unfeminist by not supporting her wholeheartedly. Yeah. Like, every time I do this with Bonnie Blue as well. And it doesn't mean that like I'm trying to support women like blindly and like I'm always going to be on a woman's side blindly without, you know, ignoring evidence and whatever. But like instinctively, that is what I feel what my feminism should represent. It's like they're right too.

But I think we can, but I don't think we're not supporting her by analyzing the cover. Yeah. We're not, I think what we're just deciding is, I guess her intentions behind it and like the impact that it's had.

That's the impact is the relevancy, isn't it? Not like, oh, she's bad. She's a bad woman for doing that. She can do what. And it might very well have been that they were like, oh let's think of like a cool album cover like what artwork do we want this is going to look cool it might well have been that and there's no there's no like under light there's nothing

I don't believe that for a second well this is a big teams and there are very big teams behind them who orchestrate all of this and they're very clever people because they're you know she's a superstar million they've done they've done their job because we're all talking about it yeah I've never known I know that's a like espresso but like I wasn't familiar really familiar with her or her music until this, until it's been like everywhere. So they've done their job. I don't know where you live to miss that, because she has had some absolute box. The interesting thing is, is the single that's gone up now, I feel, is at complete odds

with the album cover. Like the single that's gone up now is called Man Child and she's writing about this. I know this because I listen to three times on the way in. And she, also someone that I know's ex-girlfriend has just shared it. But anyway, I'm enjoying people using the song to like pull out their exes. Passive aggressive. Yeah. But she's writing about a kind of like pathetic man, like a man that never grew up.

Right. So it's at odds completely with the album cover. So that's sort of why I feel like she is in on it. And she is giving us a wink with that song. But then it's like, well, this doesn't make any sense. No, it is confusing. But they have done their job. But the bonny blue, I mean, this whole climate feels so icky to me.

I don't like it. I don't like it. Yeah. And going back to what you said, that we have to, it feels like we have to support these women. Do you follow exotic cancer on Instagram? No, that was. So, sorry, no, it's completely relevant. Oh, it is.

So, yeah, exotic cancer is an artist, exotic dot cancer. I absolutely am obsessed with them. And she's an artist and the graphics, the art that she makes, it's very much like sexual empowerment. think she's a sex work or sex worker or it's definitely about like the cause I guess is what I mean like it's it's it's about empowering sex workers and and I really like the style of the content that they make and the the cover feel I feel quite challenged by the art I think is what I mean and I feel like the particularly inside cover could be like inspired by that and I feel I could feel a correlation there

except the difference is well the difference is huge but the difference is in how Sabrina Carpenter presents because of what I was saying earlier she presents as a very societally accepted beautiful young woman

yeah this artist is amazing yeah it's really great I mean again opinions thoughts would be so welcome well there was one more email that we wanted to read Hi ladies, I was really interested to hear your discussion about Bonnie Blue on the podcast and I wanted to share some of my thoughts as someone who also feels deeply conflicted and also concerned.

Like you, I'm struggling to see how any feminist can genuinely support what she's doing. At the core, I actually feel an overwhelming sense of sadness for her. It seems she's caught in a toxic cycle of seeking validation through shock and extremity and I wonder if there will come a time when she has to confront the emotional cost of it all. From a feminist standpoint, I find what she represents incredibly troubling. as someone who has experienced personally sexual abuse I feel deeply alarmed by the way her content reinforces the objectification of women

particularly in spaces where male dominance is not just present but celebrated this isn't empowerment. Consent alone doesn't make a situation safe or feminist if the context involves deeply unequal power dynamics and an audience of men consuming it for gratification that's a really good that's a really good line she's so right. She's so right

yeah the public nature of her performance also sends that dangerous messages, especially to young men and boys, it tells them that a woman's value lies in how submissive or sexually available she is. We're already facing an epidemic of violent, degrading porn being normalized online with themes of assault, coercion and incest just one click away. Bonnie's content plays into those narratives, whether intentionally or not,

and that's a serious feminist and safeguarding issue. Yeah. I want to undo everything I just said and agree with her wholeheartedly. I think that's it, isn't it? like the context of where these are being released is the most relevant part of this. Sorry, just quickly, she finishes about Sabrina Carpenter. On a more subtle but equally disturbing level,

we're seeing similar messages creep into the mainstream media. For example, Sabrina Carpenter's new album artwork where she's positioned on the floor with a man holding her hair is being presented as cheeky or edgy, but to me, it reinforces the same dynamic. Women are submissive, control, and decorative. Her primary audience is young girls, and I find it terrifying that this is being packaged as empowerment.

These examples, whether extreme or dressed up as pop culture, or shaping how girls view themselves and how boys are taught to treat them. To me, this isn't progress. It's a huge step backwards. I think we should have just read that out instead of giving our opinions because that was way better. Yeah, that's really good. That's the thing that's scary.

It's shaping how girls view themselves and how boys are taught to treat them. Yeah, as you were reading that, I was thinking, like, that's exactly it. That's the worrying part for me. It's like, it's girls feeling, like, that's what they've got to do because that's what their heroes are doing. And that's what the... That's really horrible. Yeah.

Well, I think we can... Well, we went around the houses and should have left it. With those emails? Should have just read the emails because that would have done our job for us better than we could have. Thank you guys. No doubt they've higher IQs. A hundred percent. Should we do it?

Should we do it? Shall we do it? Okay. I'll find us an IQ test. Send you the link. If you and Dax, you've got to do it too. You don't have to because I don't know if we can legally ask them to do that. Okay, well, it's not obligatory.

IQ test is available this week as homework. They'll definitely both come back higher than us. Yeah, for sure. Thanks so much, guys. We will see you on Monday. Bye! Should I delete that as part of the ACAST Creator Network?