Should I Delete That? - Just Us: “Shocking” news, Tattle Life and AI brainrot

Episode Date: July 2, 2025

Greetings hot people! On this week’s Just Us - Em has an update for us on her ADHD diagnosis journey. She also has an announcement… and an un-announcement for us! Meanwhile - Al’s become the symbolic leader for the world’s hot people. Has she finally managed to convince Em that it’s a valid complaint? We also dive into a topic that we’ve never spoken about in detail before… the gossip forum Tattle Life. After its owner was sued for defamation - he has now lost his right to anonymity - and the conversation about Tattle has hit the mainstream. We discuss the effect that it’s had on us, our friends - and how users of the site are feeling now…Do you want to get in touch… or are you willing to invigilate our IQ tests? DM us on Instagram or email us on [e-mail]  We’re heading to Edinburgh for our biggest live show ever. We’ll be taking over the iconic Usher Hall for one night only on 3rd September. Head to SIDTLive.com for more information and to purchase tickets.Follow us on Instagram:@shouldideletethat@em_clarkson@alexlight_ldnShould I Delete That is produced by Faye LawrenceStudio Manager: Dex RoyVideo Editor: Celia GomezSocial Media Manager: Sarah EnglishMusic: Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, and welcome back to Shoulda Delete That. I'm like that. I'm M. Kloxin. How are you? Deep breath. Shocking news. Come on. I've got ADHD.

Oh, I don't believe it. I don't believe it. I know. Can you go? Are you sure? I know. I said it on the side. I'm demanding a retest.

Second opinion. Needed. Immediately. That was the third opinion. And it's. inclusive. Can't shape it. It's unanimous.

Yeah. The votes are in. I've got the golden buzzer. I'm diagnosed, baby. Fun? Fun. Yeah. How did that go?

I mean, look, I'm not surprised. I don't think anyone's surprised. Yeah. Oh, it's nice for you to have that, like, you know, that piece. Like, I've had this chat with both my parents and they're like, I was like, well, no. No. Because it's like, obviously. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think it was much doubt around. No. It's what has been very good for me, and I will talk about this at another time, perhaps. I might write about it. I haven't decided, or I might just never talk about it because I don't want to be another person on the internet of the ADHD. But what's been really interesting for me was having him explained to me why breastfeeding has exacerbated my symptoms so much. Oh, interesting. And he was explaining that ADHD is a, and I'm going to get it all wrong, but it's a deficiency of dopamine. Like we don't have a lot of dopamine, which is why we need to be doing very, as far as I understand it, we need to be doing very stimulating things and only able to hold our attention on things that stimulate us. When you are breastfeeding, you have low estrogen, I think, high end-strogen. Anyway, you have low dopamine when you're breastfeeding, which is probably like nature's way of making sure you don't go skydiving

or make more babies by having sex or whatever. So my symptoms, and I was having this conversation with my dad yesterday because it's like, I love, and I said this last week before I got the diagnosis, I love the way my brain works in a million ways. but over the last six months it has just got too much for me and to understand why that's been and to understand

because we talked about it on a podcast that we did with Chessie King a few years ago now about how me and Alex nearly got divorced in Japan when I tell you I was a fucking lunatic in Japan and I always knew it was connected to breastfeeding I knew it was connected to having almost weans at Arlo off breastfeeding

and then doing loads and loads again and I knew it was hormonal but I could never explain why. That's really interesting. But I felt like a mad person. And it's happening again now where I'm like, I've got brain fog to the extent where I'm losing days. Like I'm literally forgetting.

And my memory is normally amazing. And I'm like forgetting what I've eaten for lunch. No, it is. Like, this is what I mean. This is what I like. I like my brain in loads of ways. And I think ADHD for me has always been a part of myself that I really like.

I like that I get a lot of shit for online. But I like how fast I talk. I like how fast I think. Yeah. I like loads of stuff. about how I operate, but over the last six months, it's like, it is just, Alex said it the other day, and this was my catalyst for going.

He's like, it feels like we're in Japan. And I was like, oh God, don't bring Japan up. It's the fishing trip. Don't bring this up. And then after that, I was like, well, I'll just go to fucking therapy then. We're like, as I'm obviously a mad person. That's so interesting that it's breastfeeding. It's definitely been, and I've read a lot about a huge link

between post-out depression and, an ADHD and ADHD diagnosis for women after they have children. And it's definitely been the case for me. Does it make you want to wean off breastfeeding? No. No. No. I think awareness has been really good. I've been talking to the, and this is why it's slightly hesitant to talk about it because I don't want any judgment, but I hope that people can trust that I'm going to do right by my baby and my family and my mind is about the medication and breastfeeding. So I've been talking with a doctor about kind of what my options are. I've been reading a lot of forums about this and I've been prescribed a very low dose of one pill to try

and we're looking at like pumping and seeing what my options are but no it doesn't make me want to stop no breastfeeding that desire feels stronger than that's very important to me yep a bit of awareness as to why I'm feeling the way I am is really good and it's interesting because I don't feel depressed

I don't feel anxious I just and I don't think I've posted the depression or anxiety I feel like my brain is running at a speed that my legs can't keep up with I feel like I wake up every morning and I trip over Do you know what I mean? Welcome to my world. Well, exactly.

It's fucking annoying, isn't it? I don't want it. I just don't, I want to try and be proactive about changing the way I feel. Okay, good for you. That's that. That's great news. Keep us updated. On this, I have a further announcement.

Go on. I have pulled out. I was going to tell you as a big surprise that I was going to run Berlin Marathon in September. And I've pulled out of Berlin Marathon in September. Okay, okay. Talk to me. I was going to run it at exactly nine months postpartum. Okay.

So it would have been to the day that Zanthi was born nine months later. Yeah. And it felt very symbolic to me that I was going to have nine months of illness. Yeah. And then nine months of healing running a marathon. Okay. And then I had this conversation with the ADHD doctor and he was like, you are never going to rest.

If your only way of coping with your mental health is to run, when will you physically rest? Mm-hmm. And I was like, okay, that was ominous. And then I was lying in bed and it was that heat wave. And I was with Arvo and she wouldn't sleep and it was 9.30 and I had to run eight miles the next day. And I knew I had an eat dinner. And I was getting so frustrated with the situation, which obviously manifests as me being frustrated with her.

And then I just had to check myself. I was like, she is two years old and she needs her mommy. And I should have nowhere else that I need to be right now beyond here. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And what am I doing? what am I doing this for? So then I put that in the marathon.

Well done. Thank you. I'm prouder of you for that than I would be for you running the marathon. Me too. Yeah. And I woke up the next morning. It's way more important. Yeah, I woke up the next morning and I had this huge relief and I just lay in bed with both

my babies and I was like, this is where I'm supposed to be. And like I can work out a way to manage my mental health without sacrificing this because this is the most important thing to me. Yeah. And then I start being angry with myself and disappointed with myself for missing where I want to be. Yeah. It was a vicious cycle.

That is, I think that is so cool that you've gotten there. Thank you. Because it's so true is that that running is amazing as a tool for, you know, for your mental health and for coping with your mental health. But if it's your only tool, it's a very tiring tool. It's a very tiring tool. And it's a time consuming tool. And if it's the only tool, it's like having a chainsaw is the only tool.

It's like there are some situations the chainsaws not going to help with. Sometimes you need like a paintbrush Yeah exactly Just like a little hammer Like just a half of a picture You don't need a fucking chainsaw all the time Like he's got a time and a place You know it's fun every now and then

Yeah that's very true Yeah And I think that's a very good realisation And I think that's one that's going to help you I still very much hope to run London next year That would be amazing Yes I won't be breastfeeding

You know as doing Berlin I would have been breastfeeding I logistically I was taking both my kids out to Berlin, to watch me run a matter. No. No. No. No.

I'll do a home race so they can stay at home. Perfect. You'll be well over a year postpartum. Everything will be working so much mind and body so much more just so much better.

Yeah. So, well done. I'm really proud of myself. I'm very proud of you. It's been a big week for me. It's fantastic news. Tell me, what's up on your side of the fence? Oh, okay.

I've got a lot to talk to you about as well. Good. I had to write it all down because I don't, unlike you, I don't have a good memory. Did we do our IQ test? And I, no, I forgot. No, I know. Did you forget? Which I think gives us the answer that we used.

Fills the first hurdle there, memory. Bollocks forgot about that. Oh, do you want to do it, though? Okay, I'm going to, I'm going to research a really good test. I'm going to send it to us. I think we should do it together, though. Like, not together, like, together, like, what's our joint IQ, which would still be low. I think we need like an like uh what's it called fuck sake this is how we fail it every

when we talk about IQs we fail them just by talking about them you can say time test and they're like what's it calling have an invigilator invigilator oh a vigilate an invigorator an invigorator sounds sexual is it a vigilator no no it's an index you're right am I am I Why, indivigilator. No, I was. Invigilator. Invigilator. Sounds weird.

That sounds. We need someone with a lanyard on. At the end of the room, in my imagination, they've got a whistle. I don't know if they need that. No, because I'm just going to be embarrassed. My IQ is going to be way lower and I'm just going to be embarrassed. No, I don't think it will. And if it makes you feel better afterwards, we could have an arm wrestle because I feel like

you'll win that. Or a kicking competition. A kicking competition. Or we could do a French oral. No, but we've done this. In kicking competition, you're better. No, you'd win because you're more scrappy than me. No, I didn't think kicking a competition, like fighting each other.

I mean, like, we can kick things. You're really good at kicking. Okay, I see, I see. Oh, if you've got to a physical fight, we know I'd win. 100%. Okay, so IQ test results incoming, maybe. Do we have anything topical to talk about? Oh, can I just write monitoring this thing?

Go, go, go, go. Tell me like your feelings. Okay, so my good. I found my fellow hot people okay I on a whim did a post but I went to a wedding it was the most

incredible beautiful wedding but you mean sweaty I struggled so badly I thought you meant like you'd found your people you found your people you found a 10 out of tens like me

Harry Stiles oh no no no no no no no no I found my hot people Florence Pugh no I found my people in my league I did then hang on that with you muntas

this whole time. Finally. Where are my 10 tens are? No. Heated, overheated people. I did a post about it, about the wedding and about my discomfort. And there were so many people.

And there were people, importantly, people validating me because no one takes me seriously with this, right? Everyone, including you, everyone, rolls their eyes at me and they're like, she's moaning again about the heat, okay? Fair enough. This is a physical feeling

that is really, really uncomfortable. I hate the heat so much and I thought it was just me and there's actually loads of other people and it validated me and I would leave you to just hate the heat if that was all you hated

but you also hate the wind and the rain and when it's too cold and the snow so I can't leave you with this because otherwise I just leave you to loathing I've got to try and salvage you but this is, yeah no but this is

I just I'm uncomfortable with all extremes and non-extremes too. I'm very comfortable at a very specific temperature. I'm uncomfortable. But people are saying it's a sensory thing. I don't know if it is a sensory thing to me. That might be right. But I just...

Do you think the hair's making it worse? Possibly. It's like a scarf. Literally. Possibly. Possibly. Maybe you could shave it. But look, I found people who feel the same way as me

and that feels really good. It's not just me. because I felt the wedding like I actually I was crying at one point I was proper crying Dave had to take me to a corner because he was like your makeup has come down it's like halfway down your head he was like you can't carry on talking to people like this and I was like can't be that bad I looked at my phone and I was like it's that bad so I started crying and I was like this is just fucking miserable for me and everyone just looks fine and they're not sweating profusely like me they don't look like they just want to scream and cry and like

punch the air to get it away from me. This sounds deeper than I've ever considered it to be before. It's like claustrophobia. I feel it is sensory related and I think you should need to talk, like... But there's nothing anyone can do about that, is there? How do you know, I mean, maybe. Really? Yeah.

It's just like a... Yeah, I mean, they could... I'm funny. Put you on something. When someone said it, it might be a sensory thing, I was like, that might be because like, I can't bear like my bits of my body touching each other. Is that one always wear shirts? Yeah, because I don't...

Like, like, I just have to have something in, in the cracks. In the cracks, yeah. How do you feel about your legs touching? Quite difficult, but when I get home, I can separate them. Ah, the man's bread. Anyway, enough about me, buddy, by the heat. I know it's boring, but I'm just, that's why, you know, people put, like, a duvet in between their legs. Alex does that, does my head in.

Yeah, I have to have something in between the legs. I'm like, put it down. It is annoying, actually. It's so annoying. Yeah. It does. It's so annoying. Who brought it up into my leg.

My bad. I've got three. I've got a good bad enography today. It's like back to the normal form. Oh, fine. Yeah. I found my fellow hot people and I feel validated. The whole of that sounded very bad.

Oh no. It's, I feel really good. That was, ladies and gentlemen, that was as high as we're going. That was the song. Okay. My bad. My bad. Oh my God.

I'm interested to hear your perspective on this. I, obviously, we consume so much content online. Way too much. And I am starting to realize just how much of this content that we're consuming is written by AI. Oh. Or written by chat GPT. Okay. Yeah.

Because the, that, that, that, well, for a start is that dash. The dash. The dash. I'm noticing it now in so many people's captions. And I'm also noticing the way that AI writes, which is like vague, but like corny. For people less chronically online as us, the dash that we're referring to is a hyphen that's a little bit longer than the one that you'd get on your iPhone or Android keyboard. Like it's, there's no other way to say that, it's just longer. And it touches both words.

The words that sandwich it, it touches them. Rose normal dashes don't. So what are you saying? What are you saying? influencer captions or brand captions all of it all of the above oh my god and it's making me sad because i'm i'm reading captions and i'm like oh yeah that's so that resonates so much and i'm like wait and i know i wrote this like it's not even a real it's not even a real person speaking to me and i'm scared for what this means for everything because there's there's um studies now that

show just how much using chat GPT and other AI platforms just rots the brain. Really? Yeah, because you're not tapping into so much of your brain's capacity because you're just handing it over to software. Yeah. And so you don't use it, you lose it. Shit. So I'm scared on that front.

And I also feel really sad because I'm like, what I'm consuming, like, is this actually you? I've not used it yet. I'm a bit scared to. I did it. I've got a palm reading from it. No, I've used, sorry, I mean, I've used it as a research tool. Yeah, I used it for a post when I asked to chat GPT to tell me what,

like if the devil wants to take away a woman's. Yeah. Yeah, I used it for that. But, and I've used it, we've used it for, yeah, we've used it for research stuff. And I used it to tell me about what star sign I was. Oh, no, what the three star signs I was. Oh, that's useful. But it wasn't sure. Oh, scrap that. Yeah, I asked it for a palm reading and then I did my colour theory on it. But I...

Oh, fun. Yeah. But then I got killed because then I was like, well, I'm taking away jobs from colour theorists. This is the thing. When I... I don't know if I talked about this, but I said on Instagram, like, God, interior design is so hard. I'm so indecisive. I don't know which way to go.

Okay, not thousands. It's also like, so many people replied and were like, just use chat GPT. Put a picture of your room. into chat GPT and it'll design it for you and I was like that is so sad because interior designers designers are so specialised and so clever and so good at what they do and then people have been telling me to do it with PTs as well everyone's saying like just ask chat GPT for a workout and it's like yeah god that does make it more accessible but that's going to I always laughed at the robots taking everything but the robots are going to take over I know I don't

like the state of the world at the moment, I've got to say. It's really not feeling good. And it's frustrating because I don't want to talk about it. But then it's, have you seen this video that keeps going viral? And it's like, I mean, it is funny. And it's like social media at the moment. And it's a girl being like, this is the perfect shacket for fall. And then in the background, like the world's on fire, like the green screen. Yeah. And like my friend shared it yesterday. And I was like, oh, like, called out. Because obviously like, here I am doing my ads and stuff. Yeah. But then we're making this podcast. It's like, yeah, you want to make the like light relief but then it is fucking hard like you feel like I do take issue with that though with

that I I get that oh I didn't like that I like the meme in a ha ha but like on a practical level it's like we're all going to work this is the thing like you've gone to the office today people who don't have jobs that aren't as visible as ours no one cares about what they're doing day to day to make a living yeah fair enough On our job, we'd have to talk about it. You probably don't want to. I'm going to say the T-word. We can skim straight past it if you don't want to.

No, no, let's talk about it. Tatle Life. Tatle Life. Woof. Pop. Mental. Insane. Mental. So Tassel Life is a website that's been going on for a long time now.

It's a gossip. Since 2017. It's a gossip website where people can go to, it's a forum. People can go to gossip about influencers, celebrities, people in the public eye. It's caused a lot of harm. a lot, a lot of harm and people, a lot of influencers have spoken very openly

about the harm that it's caused and actually it's been interesting to see influencers speak out about it now that the man behind it has been named because for years he was under an alias of Helen and everyone assumed, I assumed it was a woman. Yeah, of course.

I always assumed it was a woman. I think it's very interesting that it is a man but he's finally been unveiled and his name has been revealed. Not only that, the reason that happened is because a couple called Neil and Donna Sands took him to court in Northern Ireland.

This was three years ago that they won their case against him for him to be, well, they won their case. He owed them, so 300k in damages, but then also all their legal fees, which is about $2 million. The judge ruled last week, or two weeks, two, three weeks ago, whenever it was, that he could be unmasked, which is how everyone's found out his name. And anyone listening to this thinking, well, two million, like, how's he going to afford that?

I don't think you understand. And I'm hoping that most people listening to this, I know, are kind and lovely people who don't waste their lives on there. So they won't really understand the magnitude of this. But it's estimated to have 12 million viewers a month. That gave him the earning potential of millions. Like, I've heard 40 million banded around a lot. That would not surprise me. No.

Big news last week was that Google have paused indefinitely their advertising on the platform. And for those who aren't in the node, that is how a website like that makes money. So if you've got, if you go on it or any kind of website like it, even the daily mail less so, but sort of any big website you can think of, the ads that you see on the side of the page are Google ads. And they aren't put there by the specific company. It's not put there by tattel. It's not put there, whatever. It's by someone would go to Google and they'd say, like OLA, let's say, would go to Google and say,

I've got 20,000 pounds, put it out in front of it. of the right people. And Google ads there would fill those slots, which they pay a website like Tatel. And it's the same as like the ads that come up in the middle of our podcast. You know, they're sort of slotted in like that. And so the brands wouldn't know that they're being advertised on Tatel. And Google don't really know where they're putting it. They don't care because it's Google. And that's how he was making his money, getting all those eyeballs on those ads, basically, which is the biggest irony for me that Tatel was there to dispute. influences making money all the while they're making this influencer so much money because that's

what he was by the way an influencer yeah it was an influencer a vegan influencer yeah yeah irony is delicious isn't it you've made this one influencer so much money while ripping into all the others so there's now there's a lot of influencers petitioning to for petitioning for the people who used tattle because a lot of them have like flocked away from it now, understandably, because they're going to shitting themselves, but for users to have their identities revealed as well, what do you think about that? Well, I mean, from a legal standpoint for the first time they can. So if you took umbrage to my understanding, and obviously, I just want to actually caveat before I keep talking,

Tatle has been the biggest thorn in our side, anyone in our industry forever. It's been like the deepest source of shame for so many people. It's a, work like you and i i have been like genuinely heartbroken by this and it's like it's affected me to the point where i've had to block it on all devices at home and i have someone check it every three weeks to check then no one's put a photo of my kids up and that's kind of all my home address and that's kind of like that's kind of express as a magnitude i was so broken by it i haven't been able to check it since all it was born yeah because i was like if they say anything good about bad about my kids i'm gonna die so i mean that's the thing it it it never i mean i mean

I hated finding it and it was horrible to find it but then for me it's more been about having Tommy and the security issues that's what I've been terrified about like I don't care if they say that I'm no whatever yeah whatever I used to care say what you like since the kids were born I'm like I don't care what you think about me but just back off that's what scares me any kind of security issues anything anything to do with Tommy basically because they uploaded photos of us me and you on my Hendo years ago yeah they did didn't they and I've always remembered that in my head as like, you aren't safe anywhere. And it hurt my feelings in the time because I was very, you know, wrapped up with myself and I care of people thought about me and

whatever. And I've had therapy and I've had kids and I don't care that now. But the fact that that's happened once means that I'm like, every time I take Arlo anywhere, I'm like, that freaked me out. Yeah. Yeah. I remember having like a panic attack about that because I was like, oh my God, it felt like these, you know, these people were in the cyberspace. Yeah, and they couldn't really hurt me with what they were saying. But like, knowing that they're there in real life that is scary because they can hurt like that's just terrifying and like we go to such lengths to hide my kids your kids faces yeah yeah that you know every time and the anxiety that's plagued me when I go to like I'm going to festival or going anywhere with the kids yeah

I have this anxiety all the time that someone's going to take a photo of my kids yeah so so for that um and they would as well I mean we spoke to we spoke to Anna Hart when we talked about IVF and infertility and they took a picture of her in the IVF clinic waiting room and uploaded that the nurse mom online on Instagram who lost her little boy they put up photos of her in the hospital with a dying child no they did yes they they I can't oh my god it's so honestly they are going to right before you couldn't find these people and now I need to stress I have found these people. I have hired a PA. I'm also incredibly good. You put a detective firmly on your head and you found scores of them. I found loads of them. Yeah. And I've

never done anything. One, one of them used to say about me that I was like thrash, like I was really annoying. And I remember DMing her a photo of Candleston Duo on Instagram. Because she messed me all the time being really nice and it was horrible at me on the website and I sent her a photo of Candleston Duo being like, sounds like you need this. Um, and she just saw it and she never replied after that i never bothered i once i found out who it was that put my because someone outed my pregnancy someone put on there that i was yeah yeah and after that i found out who that was i got a p i about that because i was really fucking did you find out who that was yeah do we tell you our name yes got her instagram

and everything but i never i i i presumed it was like a friend of a friend because how did she I think she must have seen me somewhere. Anyway, sorry, that... Sorry, so many beeps, Faye. But I never did anything with them after that because I was like, I didn't even block them. For me, it was always, it felt really nice to know that they could be found.

And I thought, if you ever push me too far, I know where you are. Yeah, yeah. I am really excited. And also, we need to say, we have not really been affected by this. They've got this gossip about us. It's mild.

It's hard. It's tame. Who have had their lives ruined by this. So to hear now that they have a legal avenue that they can pursue to find these people, it's so exciting. To know that this is conversations become mainstream is so exciting. I think this is going to mark a really big shift in anonymity and the legalities of it online. I don't actually care about these individual people, but I hope for the people who have had their lives written by this, which it will mean that these people can be pursued now legally. if all these people were saying it with their chest and saying it as themselves it adds i can't even

explain it for the people reading it about themselves it adds a layer of knowing that these people are anonymous adds a layer of i don't know whether it makes it more sinister it is yeah it's way more sinister because it could be anyone you have no idea who it is that's talking about you so i think but i mean we've said this loads like i feel like anyone who's going to be on the internet should have their driving licence like attached to their internet connection. I don't know.

Well, obviously that's impossible to police but there is argument about that that it's like that does not make a safe world for like human trafficking victims or refugees or whatever. You know, those without an ID would then not have access to the internet. And like I understand that there are lots of arguments against it.

However, we are getting to the point you know, talking about like AI and everything earlier where I do think, like, we need something really radical has to change. And like this, it might, might unfortunately be a case of, like, saving the masses and hurting of the few until they can work it out. But with this specifically, it always makes me sad to see what humans will do when they think they can get away with it. Do you know what I mean?

I know, because you always hope that, like, if all the lights in the world went out and all the, you know, if everything went wrong. And you all, I always think this when you see, like, sort of big power out, And it's always disappointing that looting happens. And you think, oh, I know. Is that really the first thing you'd think to do? We're depraved. And it like, when we're stripped of like civilization, we're just like depraved animals.

Yeah. And it's like you remove accountability and look what happens. Yeah. But on a personal level, I respect Richard Osman so much, random caveat. I just love him. Okay. And he's got the podcast, obviously, the rest is entertainment. Yeah.

And him and Marianna Hyde did an episode about Tatel. Oh, did they? And having had this, like, deep sense of shame, which I think is for loads of us. I'm going to listen to that. Because the thing that is really bad for a lot of influences, and we're lucky in this because we do other things as well, and we've been around for ages. But if you Google most influences you can think of, one of the first things that comes up is your Tatel thread.

And that's always been such a shame for so many influences that, like, when your name comes up, and it's like, we've never spoken about it, right? We've never said, even when we've talked about Tatel and how much it's hurt us in the past, We've never said its name because you don't want to give light to it. Yeah. And it's always felt like this really big shame for me anyway. I'm like, God, what if people that respect me, read those things about me? And then they'll hate me too.

People who know me in real life. Yeah, or people who like my content or think they like me. Then they'll go and read all of this where no one's had a chance to defend me because, and I also need to say about Tatel, they remove positive comments like that. They don't want to debate. They want to, and I know this firsthand because when Deb's bowel babe, when she was going through, when things... When she was dying. When she was dying, we looked on her thread and it was so horrific and Jen, my sister Jen, was like compelled to make an account and like just defend her because she was like, how can you be saying this about a dying woman?

And instantly removed and her account was blocked. yeah and people don't realize that i don't think like think about how sick that it is well i mean yeah i can't even talk about that that was something that debbs and i talked a lot about before she died about tattle and the effect that it has and they've done it to so many people who have died yeah they have done it so many people who have been sick they have done it so many people going through their worst and one's immune no one's immune and it is genuinely disgustingly deplorable And I don't even want to give, I don't even want to tarnish any of our friends' memories by talking about them in this way. But I think it's important to recognize how one-sided that platform was.

They never wanted a debate and they never wanted any sort of disruption to what was happening. But it does mean, and this is where it's been really, really, really effective in decimating reputations and self-esteem and everything else and families is if your job is on Instagram, which, yeah, you can have an opinion about. that but fucking help on that there's a there is we're on the brink of a third world war and this is where people put their fucking energy by the way but if you google somebody whose whole job is on instagram and that's the way they feed their kids or that's the way they I mean that also it's just they're just doing whatever and that's the first thing that comes up about them and no one's had a chance they haven't had a chance to defend themselves no one's had a chance to defend them on that platform because every defense has been removed it is enough that if if if I if I read your

thread or if you read mine you'd be like god she sounds fucking awful if i read my thread i think i'm the worst person in the world i am stupid i am lazy i'm a shit mother i am this i am annoying i am my eyelashes are annoying my hair looks shit like this you just leave it and you just think oh my god yeah you believe it of course you do because i think all these people have all these opinions yeah and they must be right you you think that that that it's representative of the wider opinion about you yeah and and when and google you know When it's your SEO, when you Google somebody, I don't think we can overstate the relevance and importance of that.

You know, when creators are now talking about it online, this is why. Because if you Google them, I haven't Googled myself in years because I'm so scared of it. But if that's one of the first things that comes up, you know, a future employer might look at it. A future boyfriend might look at it.

You know. Your kids might look at it one day. They just don't care. Caroline Hiron's has talked about how they put up a photo of her grandchildren in her house. No, they didn't. Yes, they did. she's going ham on them.

She is got, and she said, if anyone can do it. Oh my God, but these people, Caroline's put up a thing on her stories, she's saved it as a highlight on a profile saying, I've got money, I've got means,

I'm not stopping, and if you need help, if you are an influencer who doesn't have the means, I've got them, I will help you. Like, and you have just,

they have taken advantage of. I would be terrified. I would be so scared. If I had ever contributed to that website in any single way, I would be shitting myself. Have you seen the Reddit forums where everyone's like, I had an account when I had really bad mental health like four years ago

and now I've deleted it and like, but I feel really bad anyway, do you think they'll find me? And it's like, you're not remorseful. You're scared. Yeah, you're scared. And I had someone messaged me and I was like, this whiffs of like terror where she messaged me being like, oh, I just want to know what you think about like people that have contributed

like their name's being released because it just, it doesn't feel right. to me. I don't know. It just feels like just as bad as what the people are doing in the first place, you know? And I'm like, I was like, you're scared. You've been all over my thread and you want to know how much I'm going to pursue you. I just wrote back and I was like, I think it's a really good thing actually. Yeah. I think everyone should be held accountable. A nice day. I hope you sit with your fear and yeah. And you know what? Actually, I don't. There is, I, I, I'm actually hugely of the school of thought that hurt people, hurt people. I don't believe. 100% happy is spending their time on task I really don't. No, they're not. And so on that level, I actually,

I don't want everyone sitting there with their mental health, like, annihilated by it because that's where do we go from there. But I... It's not fixing the problem. I don't know how I feel about that. I'm more excited.

Like, I don't know how I feel about where we are right now, but I'm more excited to see where we are in a year from now. Do you know what I mean? Like, I want to see what change this causes. I want,

and I want people to know, which they will be. I think this marks a big shift in how we gossip online because anyone's still doing it now is... I'm a little bit more pessimistic than that. Are you? I know that there are cancer nurses on those threats. I know that there are cancer nurses on the cancer threats, right?

And I can't believe that there's a cancer. Yeah. So would you, honestly, if you were a cancer nurse, knowing that this guy's just been found out, would you ever be brave enough to think you were anonymous again? I wouldn't. I, no, I wouldn't. But I do think, like you say, I do think that these people,

there's a reason that they're turning to Tatle. And for a lot of them, they live a lot of their lives on Tatle. Yeah. It's big, it's big for them. And I think this will leave a gaping hole in their lives. And I think it will, I don't think, they won't try and fill it, if that makes sense. And I do think as well that like inane gossip about people,

especially like people in the public eye, like this has been happening forever. You know, we've gossiped about people within our circles, friendship circles, gossip magazines, like it's always happened. I don't think it's going to go away. I don't think so either. And I do think, but I do think if you can gossip there and you go on and like cancer consultant one, two, three,

Amanda Leaf whatever and you've got to put your name to it then say it like you want to

upload a photo of my kid yeah okay let me see you and find out where you live yeah

and I'll come around and ask if you're yeah so I think it's not that they're gonna stop doing it

and I really don't have a problem with them doing it if people want to hate me or whatever

it's the fact that they couldn't be held accountable and now they can be that's what

excites me because I just I don't think anyone's going to trust their anonymity anymore. That's what I hope's going to come from this. Yeah. I would be so interested to know how many Tattle users are still going now. I don't think there are that many still going. I do think it would be surprised at how many are still going.

Yeah. Well, they're the ones doing it with their chest. All power to them. I know. I know. If in the place of all of this, you're still brave enough to do it, then perhaps you need a pat on the back. Well done.

Good on you. This is a valiant effort. Like everybody's got to have a passion. But you're right and we do have to like make space. I keep saying make space. I think it's the wicked, it's the wicked press junkets, isn't it? Our old space. I think we do need to make space for like the mental health of people who lived a lot of

their lives on there and who found comfort in that because it's obviously like indicative of a mental health that isn't very good. Yeah. And I do hope that, I don't know, this is going to sound patronising. It is sounding patronising, but like, I hope that space is filled with something good. It won't be. No. No.

No. But I do think it bred in a really insidious culture. If anyone was listening, like, therapy would be a really good thing to, like, slot into that gap. I remember the last thing I read on there before I went off it. And it was like, about you? Yeah, about me when someone said, I think she's pregnant. And I screen grabbed it and I've used it as my own therapy for years and years. And it was a really long message.

And I went, oh, God, please no, don't let her be pregnant. I can see it now. And then she went on this huge spiel of what I would be like as a mother and how awful I'd be. And I remember reading that and I thought, you're okay? Are you okay? Oh, God, no, please don't let her be pregnant. And it's like, what in the world has happened here? And then I can see it now.

she'll be lying in her bed breastfeeding and she'll be crying and then she'll be telling other mothers that breastfeeding's really hard but it's worth it and blah and I say you have got yourself so angry about something that hasn't even happened yet about a person that you don't know and I think we also need to keep very clear in our minds that this girl this woman could have just umphology that's all she needed to do she didn't need to see you she was another one I know where she lives really I know she walks her dog I know loads about her. They were never as anonymous as they thought,

that was my last act before I left, before I stopped looking at it. I was like, I'm going to hunt you down if it fucking kills me. I did, found her. And I thought, okay, I'm going to leave you there to think about me all the time. And I wished you well. Really, really well.

But also, we've just been, you know, we're victims of gossip. There are people who've literally had their lives. No, this is the thing. This is the thing. they've had like people who like parents or loved ones are in recovery they've had like a meeting's gone to like they've had themselves they've had family members photographed in hospitals their address they've had the dresses they've had floor plans leak they've had where

the kids go to nursery like so we can talk about it and like oh our feelings got hurt so yay for retribution it's way bigger than that for loads of other people yeah but that's the people that I want justice for oh my god me too yeah I don't care about the people that me neither on our threads. Stuff on my thread. Like, I can't even remember the stuff they said. Like, one girl was like, I went on a date with Dave. And he was argumentative.

I remember that because we laughed at that. But like, I can't even, like, the stupid stuff. They said that I was like not fit to have Betty, like to, because. Well, I mean, we all say that. Because I like, because when she humped me, I took a video of it, you know. Yeah. But like, stuff like that. Like, I don't care about that.

But we need justice for those people whose lives have literally. being ruined by Tattle life. For sure, for sure. And yeah, like we're coming at it from a position of like nothing. I mean, it barely touched us in the scheme. And we're lucky for that in the scheme of it. Yeah. Yeah, we are lucky.

But it is, there is like, there is a part of me now that's just got the popcorn out because it's like, yeah, Mrs. Hinch put up a story recently. And it was just like, I've, she's archived because they're deleting all the threads. They're deleting all the Hinch threads. And she said she put up a story being like, I know you've deleted them, but we've already got them all saved. They've been archived. There's a woman on Instagram

called Dr. Jess Taylor. She's been helping creators save them all in their archives, save all the pages. So it's like, yeah, they're deleting it all. But like the evidence is all been saved. So that's quite fascinating. Yeah, well.

And it's just, it's quite fun. It's like, I don't know. Give me a little bit of hope in a month. Yeah. And for like the people that it has really hurt, they're like having their moment and they should do. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, they can let them dine off of this. Like, this is great. Yeah, this is great. Make it a TV show, make it a Netflix, make it, and let's go to their houses. Oh, I would die to watch that. Oh, my God.

If I could just go around everyone's house and be like, hello. But that's the thing. I don't think we'd like watching that. I think we'd find it really sad. I think that would help. We've given it so much power. You always give people a bit of mean to you power, don't you? In life, that's what we do.

I think you'd end up watching that and feeling really sad. Like, oh, shit. This is not good. State of the world. Sorry, state of affairs. Yeah. Well, anyway, this is not where we were supposed to go. It wasn't, was it?

Sorry, I'm we're late. We've got to, we fucked it. We've got to get out of here. Sorry, at the beginning of the episode, oh, do you think anything big's happened in the news? That happened. Worth. And by any Patl is listening. Hi.

Hey, yeah. You're all right. No, but there are some listening as well. Oh, I know. There are. I know. Oh, yeah, I know. I know, actually.

That was one of the last things I saw about, someone put in. the thing being like you and I have beef with each other like it sounded like we're really awkward in the podcast and I was like oh no a podcast listener yeah there will be and then I date checked it and I was like what was going on did we have did we no I don't think so oh but boring maybe I was just hot and stressed um no it was winter so you should have been fine oh maybe I was cold and dressed um okay well there we go oh I feel awkward now yeah I do yeah it's still scary to talk about it yeah it is but we've done it now we've done it We're probably going to tell face to date this whole episode.

We can't, yeah, we can't put the cat back in the bag. You shouldn't be put the cat back in the bag. Not the phase, is it? No, anyway. Phase phrase? We've got to go. We're losing it. Bye, guys.

See you on Monday. Should I delete that as part of the ACAST creator network?