Should I Delete That? - Just Us: The Skims face wrap, impossible beauty standards and perimenopause

Episode Date: August 6, 2025

JOIN US FOR OUR LIVE SHOW IN EDINBURGH ON 3RD SEPTEMBER! Head to SIDTLive.com for more information and to purchase tickets.Before we start: some important context about today’s episode - Em recorded while wearing Kris Jenner style sunglasses because she has a migraine. So please keep that image in your mind while you’re listening! Today - we’re discussing Em’s shampoo disaster and a revelation that might explain why Al struggles so much in the heat. We also discuss Skims’ latest release - a face wrap that supposedly ‘shapes and sculpts’ your jaw as you wear it overnight. We discuss why our current cultural climate is making beauty standards spiral, why we feel guilty when we do participate in beauty trends and why we can sometimes feel hypocritical when we discuss this topic. If you’d like to join in the conversation - you can email us on [e-mail] - we love you guys! Follow us on Instagram:@shouldideletethat@em_clarkson@alexlight_ldnShould I Delete That is produced by Faye LawrenceStudio Manager: Dex RoyVideo Editor: Celia GomezSocial Media Manager: Sarah EnglishMusic: Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome back to Shoulda Delete That. I'm like Slite. I'm M. Clarkson. You came in quicker than what I was expecting. Oh, apologies. Hello. Sorry, sorry. How are you? I am. I'm okay. Yeah, good. You're not okay. No. You're less okay. No, let me talk you through it. I'm sitting here. I feel like Chris Jenner post face-fif, not in appearance, sadly, mealy in accessories. I have got my shirt. my surgical shades of. They're very Kardashian-esque shades. They cover at least half your face.

Well, I got them actually after my broken jaw debacle because they hide most of your face. And unfortunately for me, the old jaw injuries acting up again. I feel like a war veteran. I don't tell me your migraine. I'm fine. But I need to just delve into my morning

and being less fine. I am really taking care of my hair at the moment. Okay. Talking masks. took more masks. Ceres, oils, leaving conditions, the works, right? It looks great. Well, thank you so much.

I'm going through something with it. But this morning, slept to my mask last night. Shampoo did another one. I've got two kids. I don't have time for this, but I am committing, right? I'm committing to the bit. Did it, went through the whole shebang. Yeah.

Got in the shower, having done like 14 hours worth of hair masks. Yeah. Squeezed my shower gel into my hand. Put it in my hands together. Oh, you dickhead. My oil-based shower gel. think that only a man would do. You know our menu is like three and one in the shower?

Exactly that. I was like, oh my God. As I do it, I was like, I hate myself, I hate myself. Let's just strip the hair of all that gorgeousness that we put on it. So now I just got like a line of oil, like a mohawk down the top. And I just, I was like, what do you want from? You know what I mean? Like, what can I, where do we go from here?

It's easily done though. It is easily done. By that point, I was like I've put so many things on my hair. Why wouldn't I put this on my hair? Tooth Face? Sure. Like 15 products later Like it was just everything's going on my head

So yeah Morning Tell you what though It looks really shiny Thank you That'll be the saltage anero body oil But I brought it It was body oil

It was like a shower Yeah the shower gel oil Shower oil It's not good It was stupid I did wonder why it didn't lather But we're here now I love the Loxetan almond shower oil

Oh god it's gorgeous Yeah I've got to say actually The Saltage Niro is coming for it On a close Yeah You need to try it It's really good. When I use the Loxetan shower oil, I feel like this is the very best version of me.

I agree. And I feel like that in every sense of the word because I buy the refills. So when I refill my bottle, I think I am better than almost everyone else I've ever met. Hands down, there is just no doubt. And Loxet are good at that. They're super eco-friendly. Yes. And I feel like when I'm doing that, I'm like supple skin.

I am incredible. And yeah, biodegradable packaging. So who is she? I have a bad Oh good I know that everyone's been Waiting for an update on this actually There's been a lot of anticipation around this

But I My anti-heat influencing career has kind of dried up Because the weather's cooled down Yeah maybe I didn't really think about that I just felt like When I spoke about it last I was on the cusp of something big Yeah yeah yeah

I saw like shark or Dyson Like knocking down my door to do a collab Yeah yeah Fun brands. Yeah. I saw like freezer bags waiting to hit me up. Yeah. Maybe like Sprite because it quenches, quenches your thirst in hotness and heat.

I thought every one would be there. Every, no one. No one. A handheld fan brand, nothing. Not even an air conditioning unit. No, no, no. Died. It's fizzled out.

It fizzled out really quickly, actually. I think this might have less to do with you and the fact that the heat wave ended. I think you were a summer fling. This is just the summer Like where you were We were in an oven before You know you found your people in the oven Yeah I just I don't know

I really thought I was diversifying I'm quite excited by the fact It's only this time of it Like I feel like we've had such a lovely summer Obviously you and I've had different experiences of it I have loved it so much And I got a bit giddy yesterday When I thought oh my god

It's only just the beginning of all Because we've got another two months of this I got really excited So there's that Sorry I'm sorry that it didn't take off for you in the way that you thought but hopefully we'll have another heat wave

and they'll all come clamouring back they'll be like, whoa, sure deodorant I'll be like, shh, shit, she's sure deodorant, yeah, yeah, where are they? Mitchum. They'll be ready though, like they'll know the next time it ramps up, they'll see, they'll be looking at their life and calendars

and they'll be like 40 degrees. I'm number one on the list, aren't I? 100%, yeah, so I'd hit my elbow. We're talking like influencers. Sweatiest. And heat, oh, I'm right there, yeah. I haven't stopped sweating. I feel like it's still very hot.

I do think there's something about hormones to be said there. I think. Yes. I think it's perimenopause coming to get me. Yeah. Yeah. Which is very early, but hey. Well, yeah.

And I actually want to rescind. Okay. I say confidence rescind. Yeah. I would like to rescind all of my laughing at you because when I'm laughing at you just for being sweaty. I'm laughing you for being sweaty, but actually I don't want to laugh at you in perimenopause because that's fucking savage. It is so savage. And it is to be savage. And I didn't think we were laughing at hot

flushes. I just thought we were laughing at you not being able to handle the heat. But when you said it was perimenopause, I was like, oh shit, I'm a bitch. To be fair, so did I. And then I saw someone about it and they were like, oh, no, yeah, you're, you'll near the end. I was like, oh, okay. I mean, it makes sense. I don't know why I never considered it before, but it makes total sense. Yeah, the fact, I don't know why we didn't know. And I don't know why, you've also talked about this at length on the internet. And I don't know why one person, we know that everybody on the internet says everything they want to.

So I don't know why one person didn't say to you, do you think this could be the menopause? There was loads of people saying to me, try being in perimenopause. Try being in menopause. And I was like, yeah, fair. Then you were like, actually, I will. I am. I'll take you at your word. Yeah, I don't need to try.

Yeah. It was nice to talk to Georgia Jew swallow about it, though, because she's in perimenopause. So it was actually, it was so nice. And we compared, because we both did the fertility test and we were like comparing hormones and they're very similar. yeah they're both like completely out of whack and very similar so that was really nice because people talk about this all the time like oh anyone talks about like I remember sitting next to someone at dinner the other day not the other day I mean when I used to go out I haven't been having dinner since I had kids so I remember going out for dinner seven years ago and um and the

woman next to it was like oh in our day we just went through the menopause and we just got over it and I was like okay so you were miserable and you struggled balls immeasurably so you want everyone else for it to like Davina McCall's done so much about this obviously Georgie's talking about it from a quite unique perspective because she's only 33, but like when people open up about going through the menopause, it's like, thank God, because it's so lonely and horrible and horrendous, just like all the other hormonal related things that people suffer with. It's horror. If you look at the menopause symptom list, it's as long as your arm and all of it is horrible. And we, well, our moms are both gone through menopause. Like my mom

went on HRT hormone therapy replacement replacement therapy straight away and hasn't been able to come off of it. Really? Yeah. And actually the guidelines around it has changed now. It used to be that you should only be on it for a certain amount of time. I think in case it, like, increased your risk of breast cancer. Fact check, Faye.

I'm like, is this all? No, I am pretty sure this is right, though. And then, and now there's new guidance and new studies to show that you can actually be on it for the rest of your life and it's really good for your bones, because obviously lack of estrogen and back your bones. Which is amazing for women now, but it's a bit shit for the ones before. Yeah. Because it's like if it were men going through menopause, so they'd have checked that.

They just had to white knuckle it. Yeah. Yeah. She is correct out. She is correct. It's a miracle. Yeah. First time.

Stunning. Well, yeah, I am really sorry for you that we laughed because it's actually not funny. I mean, the doctor literally said to me, do you get hot? And I was like, incredibly. Can you get my words out? Famously hot, yeah. Yeah, I'm a heat influencer. Those times when I just feel like I'm dying and everyone else.

around me looks so composed and put together. I'm like, there's a reason. There's a reason. There will be one thing I just want to say, not menopause related necessarily. You just said there you were quite hot and you were sweating. I need to draw your attention to your own outfit. It is summer and you are in two hefty pieces of denim. Like there is some hormones at play and there's just some poor choices at play also. I know. I can't get it right. Honestly, I can't Just wear less would be my feedback to you if I were just making any better summer clothes is the thing. Yeah, you just need less often. Also, I feel really naked coming into London with less on. It's like a weird thing. Like, I don't like getting the train or the tube. Yeah.

It must be dressed. But like on the tube and on the train, I don't know. I just feel funny if I'm not wearing something more covered up. I don't know. Do you think that's a sexual harassment thing or do you think it's a hygiene thing? I remember coming to meet you. Yeah, like touching your bare fives on the train. Oh, no, no, no. It's more like, I don't, yeah, I don't want any. I've got, like, the biggest boobs in the world, and I don't want anyone looking at them.

Men, I don't want men looking at them. So I'm very funny about it. I don't know, just very funny about it. And, like, I want to cover them up at all times. Like, even this, you can see, like, I've got a vest top on. And you can't really see cleavage, but even that, I'm like, need to pull it up. Yeah. My mum was like that

I got off my mum She was like that She was always very conscious Of any kind of cleavage Or anything that like met I just got it off her I don't know Yeah well it's fair enough

It's yeah I'm working through stuff Yeah no that's fine That's fine I feel like we could still explore Like the Zara have high neck bodies that don't show your boobs You basically need the opposite

of what I'm wearing Because I can't wear Because I'm breastfeeding In my wardrobe It's what I just need to be sending to you Do you know what I like, though, that we both have, the Abercrombie sleeveless tops? Yeah, the Abercrombie sleeveless. Oh, yeah.

The Abercrombie sleeveless. I think they're called Paloma. I think it's a poloma. I've got it in cream black and pink. Yes. Yeah, they're really nice. Yeah, they're really nice. And they hide you.

I like them. I still need to get some Abercrombie curve. Jeans. Fuck yeah, you do. I really do because I feel like they would suit me so well. They would. I just never got around to it, but I'm going to. Yeah, no, 100%. Yeah, I'm in such a weird place.

I mean, we know this, my body's changing, like having had babies and that maybe, it's, I find this, this process such a bizarre thing. Like, my clothes, I, like, you want to get rid of all your clothes and you get rid of them because you don't want to not fit in them and then you have the baby and then you wear them and now those clothes don't fit. And I'm like, yeah, I don't know what to do with myself. I think the trick is don't throw away until your body has like stabilized for like at least a year. Yeah, no, I've not done that. I've literally vinted everything I've owned. I feel like that's a good And now it's all gone

Representation of our impulse control Yeah No, I've none Gone Well the first time with Arlo I flat Everything I put it in the Back

Under the bed And it was great But I never got back into those clips Because I was absolutely Diddy before I had kids And I never got back And I was like Oh let that go

And then I kind of back And then the last couple of years But I moved to house in that time And I don't think Anyway Literally no one cares Basically I'm I'm shopping around

I'm in some trendy jeans You are in really trendy jeans Yes I'm in barrel jeans I love barrel jeans What shoes do you wear with a barrel gene. Literally anything. No, not anything, because if I put my, my trendy axles, I look, I look like, if I arrived

at the school gates to pick up Arlo, she would literally turn me around and say, do you know what? You're right, actually. I think anything chunky like that isn't going to work. No, you need tiny little shoes. Because I think Converse go really well with them. Yeah, I haven't tried Converse. I just try my big shoes on. And I look like I should be teaching geography.

Yeah. They absolutely hate me teaching geography to them. I look like I should be telling them about fossils. Do you know what I mean? I look like I've been like staying at the beach for four or five days. It's akin to wearing those kind of shoes with like Bermuda shorts. Exactly. Yeah, it's just, I can't put my finger on it, but it's a bit off.

You're right, okay. Yeah, you need like converse, like something slimmer. Yeah. Or like sandals, right? Yeah. I'm really getting the hang of getting dressed. Like, I really feel like I'm getting better at it. I'm finding my style.

I'm finding more, basically I'm finding more confidence because I'm not trying to hide in my clothes. Obviously, Lorraine is forcing me to like look smart, dress better. Yeah. but I can't get the shoe thing. Like I feel like I nail every outfit until it gets to my feet and then I'm like, fucked it. These are my first

I don't think that's true. I wear trainers with everything. If you watch my first like 10 Lorraine appearances is my grotty grey converse. Okay, I feel like, yeah, for Lorraine. Maybe, yeah, let me have proper shoes. This is the thing though. When it comes to footwear, I'm trainers or boots.

There's no, there's nothing else. There's no like smartness. That will be contributing to your very, very sweaty nature. You need to let those babies breathe. I think ballet pumps. I can't. I know. We've done this.

I know. I've suffered once before. I know. I can't. It's like there's something in eight in me that resists it. I'm, they are inherently repulsive. But the figures are not. Like I saw Chessie King last weekend.

She was wearing them. Mindy, she's six foot a million. Monty looks so good in them. So they're tall girls. Maybe it's that. But I just look, I just, I just, but when other people wear them, I think, say, and if I wore them, I'd be like, no, back to bed. Go, be gone with you. There is something so incredibly dainty about them that I think it is jarring on a person that isn't incredibly

dainty. What a dainty by nature. Yeah. I think a problematic take and I'm just going to say it because it's not great, but it's just how I was raised. I didn't like coming to a finish. I didn't like coming to a pointy finish. I liked the big shoe because it made the rest of me look smaller and I know that's not great, but that's like the hangover from diet culture I always grew up with. Like, I thought the bigger the shoe, the smaller it would make the rest of me look. Yeah. And I thought if I was at a point, I felt like a triangle. And that kind of was how my body's always been.

It was just like big up top. And then it's like, ding, ding, ding, ding to the bottom. And then you're just like on a point. I can't be having that. I used to wear winkle pickers in school. You used to wear winkle pickers. Winkle pickers. I thought I was the coolest.

What the fuck is a winkle pickers? picker. You know this. We've done this before. We've done this before. You know this. It's those shoes that come to the pointiest of points. They look like pencil ends, like the pointy end of a pencil. Where did you go to school? Is that like, I wore like brothel creepers. In the 1920s. Yeah, literally in like provincial France. I, um, I had the big chunky ones. Oh my God, I'm desperate for those to come back. What kind of church? Oh, like, um, like brothel creepers. But no, I got them from Clarks. Oh, No, that was a egg, my palm. Oh my God, I'm beg.

I should be like, no, go for something practical. I'm like, fuck, practical, mom, I want to be cool. Yeah, that was, that was really cool. Yeah, and my short little skirt with my, oh, now, okay, okay, I want to talk to you about this. I know we've got a million things to talk about. Yeah, sorry. Go, go. There was a school in Barnsley, New Yorkshire, that have banned girls from wearing skirts.

How do you feel about that? Well, I need more info. Can we fact check me, Fay. Thank you. I'm pretty sure. Skirts of any kind. Yeah. So they made this girl's uniform men trousers.

But within that, I don't believe the girls were then allowed to wear shorts. But I just brought up an interesting topic for me, thought process for me, around school girls' uniform and where we're headed. Kirk Bulk Academy explained that the move to tailor trousers from September 2026 would promote equality and inclusivity, ensuring all students feel comfortable and supported. Trails are also more practical for active learning and movement throughout the school day or simplifying uniform requirements

helps reduce costs for families. I think I like it. Do you? I think there was a situation where they couldn't wear shorts where the girls couldn't wear shorts, but the boys could. I'm not sure if they dealt with that. A part of me is like, yes,

because fuck all those sick men who are obsessed with the schoolgirl trope and want to see girls school girls in their little skirts so part of me is like ha ha fuck you you don't get to see that anymore um also if it's more comfortable for the girls to wear trousers which i would argue that i'd much rather wear a trousers than a skirt i think it would be nice if they had the choice well yeah as a school girl i would have said skirt every day would you yeah 100% i would not have wanted to wear trousers and i say this with like putting myself back to 11 year old me or any, any school age me, the only trousers that look good on my figure are wide leg trousers, like well tailored wide leg trousers. Everything

else I feel like I really don't like the way that it looks on me. Okay. So I think that would have been a consideration. Like if you, like, if we know that, you know, girls figures are different to boys figures, the trousers are probably just designed for boys putting girls in the boys' clothes. going to feel as confident. That's what I'd have had an, like as a child, I'd have been very self-conscious about that, I think, perversely, even though it's like, I think I'd have been more comfortable in a skirt and tights. Well, I hope that they can choose. That's cool, they can't. They can't. No. And it's been quite interesting. I've been thinking about it a lot. Yeah. Yeah, see, I do think that's bad because they should be able to choose. And also the boys

should be able to ask us if they want to. Well, that's it. Like, if we have like, and I, and I do understand on saving costs as well like having a mandatory like but I think the cost element it's like well that's up to the individual family it's not like you don't you don't need to have all three but it's like if the girls want to wear shorts skirts or trousers yeah that's kind of up to the family to make that right right it's cool yeah yeah yeah interesting I find the school uniform thing really interesting because I remember when I was at school like I and you'll have had the same thing where we had shirts, we had to wear shirts. And I always really struggle with the buttons on my shirt. Big boobs. Because if you go too high, then it would gape. Yeah, the gape. And you'd see

my bra through the hole. But if you go too low, then you'd be told off by the teachers for having too much cleavage. Then you'd try and wear a vest underneath, but it would be boiling. Well, you'd wear a jumper over the top, but it would be boiling. And I always really struggle with that. I keep, I've heard from loads of people who's been told off for having their straps on show. And you can't wear oversized shirts. No. They didn't do, like, I developed really early. Like, they didn't do, like, shirts that fit big girls, like, big boob girls.

Because you weren't supposed to have much at that age. No. And the rhetoric is all, like, it's distracting for the boys. Like, that's, it was distracting for the teachers as well. I would have liked the opportunity to wear trousers. I would have liked to have had the choice to wear trousers, definitely rather than skirt. Yeah, that's fair enough. I wish I'd have that.

Yeah, we wore dresses at my school. Yeah, you had it, it was a uniform, right? Yeah, I had uniform, both my schools. Yeah, we had short skirts at my first one. I mean, oh my God, we were our skirt short. We would roll them up and up and up, up and up and up. My mum would literally be like, you're wearing a belt. I'll be like, leave it alone.

I have to be like everybody else. We had to, and I think this is really bad, we had to wear gym knickers to play sport. Yeah, that is wild. Gym knickers, and we weren't allowed to. And a few of us would like scyve out of sport, basically, because we didn't want to wear the gym knickers and also where our school was

is we were on a field that was overlooked by a really big tourist attraction so all the tourists would stand there and watch us in the field and we were just wearing gym and polo tops but like gym knickers I don't understand and I genuinely don't understand why schools won't let girls wear leggings

100%. I swear to Betty are doing a really cool like their foundation does a lot around this and like empowering girls and to have more confidence. But like we see time and time again, that's a huge barrier. You know, we spoke to Gwen Krab on the podcast about it.

Like body image is such a big barrier. That says, why won't they let kids wear leggings? I don't understand it. If I could have worn leggings, because it's like, I know we shouldn't have this, but you do have the pressure to shave your legs. You have the pressure to moisturize your legs. You have the pressure to fake tan.

Like, it's a really big deal for a lot of people getting their legs out. So a lot of young girls, let them wear leggings. I don't understand. If you can take away something that stops them from being like free when they're playing sport, being free and being able to play sport just without worrying about how they look like, why wouldn't we do that? But I do think sexualisation is a part of that.

I think there's an element of it being like, well, it grows them up and it's not appropriate. And I think that's like, that comes up time and time again with a school uniform conversation where we hear people, we hear teachers or governors or whoever's making these decisions. It's being like, oh, well, you know, we don't want to sexualize these girls and this and that. And it's just like, we shouldn't be any of their kids. They're kids. Like they're kids.

Yeah. Yeah. Like recognition barriers. And also, surely kids' comfort should be the number. one thing that we are worried about. 100%. Or if we can look at the existing barriers and be like, this is a barrier to this. This is a barrier to this. Let's take that one down. Let's take that one down. I swear, I would love to be in charge of school. Like, people, like...

I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I wouldn't. No, okay, fine. I wouldn't actually. But like, if I could just have a chat with like someone about sex ed and school uniforms. I know. I know. I feel like, but there were reasonable people all over the place. I don't understand why there's such a disconnect. Like, this is, we're not, speaking, we're not, like, prophesising something outrageous here. Like, this will be a view shared by so many people. I don't understand why there's such a disconnect when it comes to actually putting things into action.

Yeah. Although maybe I just live in a bubble. Well, that's what I... A very clever bubble. But I also think that they probably live in a bubble as well. Very stupid bubble. Very stupid bubble, exactly. Can I talk to you about skims, specifically their latest launch?

Mm-hmm. Which I thought was a joke. Mm-hmm. genuinely thought it's a joke. I had to ask myself if it was April. Dates don't come to me that easily, so that was a possibility. It was like, oh, it's April.

Oh, no, it's not. Skims have launched shapewear for your face. And it's a garment. It looks like a post-surgical compression garment for your face. And it sculptured your, you're supposed to wear it while you sleep, part of your nightly routine,

to sculpt and snatch your face. and I'm horrified and shocked that there isn't more outrage around this about this because I really, really, I know that it feels like if you take a step back and look at like culture at large, it feels like a logical next step for skims and for the beauty industry but I can't believe that we're like saying that like with our chests and like actually letting this happen because it looks like handmade's tail. It looks like, I can't remember the name of it, but it looks like that old facial device that was used to stop women talking. Of course, this is all this is all modeled by women. No men are used in this campaign at all, of course,

because, well, why would men need to sculpt their jaw? Well, interestingly on that, and I want to go back and I want to talk to you about this, because I am genuinely not that surprised by And I want to talk about that like shedding trend that people do in the mornings. Morning shed. Let's get back to that. But on a man specific thing, I think with men, this has been going on for quite a long time. There's been a trend. I made a video about it.

So I've researched it. I'm going to say 18 months ago now, maybe a year ago. So it's definitely been going on for a little while called looks maxing. Okay. Which is kind of big in the manosphere, big in those, I suppose, in cell communities. but it's slipping into the mainstream. Okay. So part of that is called mewing,

which is basically where you mewing, like a cat muse. So you lock your door like that and you kind of, I mean there's literally diagrams all over TikTok showing men how to do this, but you lock your jaw and you like push your tongue up to the roof of your mouth and like do your mouth. And it's basically supposed to strengthen your jaw muscle to give you a more defined jaw. So there's, I mean, there's that.

As part of looks maxing, there is, and as I was researching, I thought this is absolutely wild because all it is, I mean, some of it is literally as simple as like, wash your face once a day, brush your hair, pluck your eyebrows. And I was like, oh look, grooming has reached the men. Wow. But in it, I mean, fundamentally that's what it is. It's finally teaching vanity to men or it's teaching grooming to men or it's, and it's just tapping into another market. That's When I was researching it, overwhelming, that's what I felt. It's like, well, it just, it's, they're just targeting men now. They're just giving men the insecurities.

They've always given women and they're giving them solutions to problems that they've made up. But they're just mannifying it by calling it looks maxing rather than personal grooming. Okay. So interestingly, I think products like this do exist for men who want to mew. I think you can buy. And I think people are buying, hang on, looks maxing, looks, fun dyslexia moment there. I just spelled looks L-O-O-O-C-K-E. I was looking at it like, I feel like I've made a mistake here.

From bone, there's a Guardian article from last year, bone smashing to chin extension, how looks maxing is reshaping young men. Okay. So yeah, there are forums, there are techniques, tips and progress related to meetings. Do we know how commonplace this is? I mean, it's bad that my first reaction to this is like cynicism. I'm like, is it. There is a very similar.

That is sold on Team U. Okay. For £1.9. which is undercutting skims ever so slightly. Okay. But that's a product advertised by men. For men. For men.

Okay. So I think this has been part of like there of the manosphere for a little while. Okay. I don't know how mainstream it is. I mean, my husband's not doing it. I very much doubt it. There's over 100,000 people on the looks maxing Reddit friend. Okay.

Okay, that's interesting. Yeah, that is, isn't it? It is. If we're talking about mainstream, like, I would be, I don't know, and I do hate that, I'm cynical about this, because I do know that men face beauty standards as well, and increasingly so, and I do know that, and I acknowledge that, and probably should talk about that more, but don't,

because it falls overwhelmingly on women, but I would be far less shocked if you came to me and said that you were wearing one of those compression garments than if Alex came to me and said that he was wearing one. Yeah. Yeah, no, I feel like that's representative of like the... But, yeah. I think the difference is, is it's like shedding.

So if we look at this thing, which is kind of taken over Instagram, like, morning routines. And it's like, I mean, they are laughable, but also not even funny because it's just how people living. Yeah. But you may have seen these videos by now. It's like a video of a woman waking up in the morning and like she'll take off her like silk hair bonnet guilty. Although mine is gone by like 32 minutes into my night's sleep. So nice idea. A waste of 60 pounds in my opinion. But they take off their silk bonnet. They take out their heatless curls. They remove the mask, the eye mask they've slept on. They remove the lip mask we've slept on. They take their mouth tape out. They take their tea retainers out.

They take the castor oil pack off their stomachs. What is that? Part of the morning shed. Stunning. Yeah. Okay, so like we're seeing more and more of this, of this becoming, and I think that's the difference maybe,

maybe it's just the circles that we're in, but like that, that ludicrous morning shed is becoming part of the consumerism. It's just part of womanhood, part of girlhood, part of the marketing. The looks maxing, maybe it's like,

not so big yet, mainstream-wise for men, but I do the murmurings within the manosphere. And it's like, you've got big male influences doing this. I mean, maybe it's just the same thing. Maybe it's just, that's just what young men are, like, being sold now. Yeah, and it's important to talk about as well. I did a real about it, and I opened up with, can you see men wearing this? Because I feel like the demographic of people,

I mean, it's only women that follow me. I think it's like 99.0.9. something percent. women and they're all like 25 to 40, four or something. So they probably wouldn't be in touch with lux maxing or mewing. But do you think, okay, well, A, do you think I'm overreacting? B, do you think I'm putting two and two together and getting 20 when I say that I feel this, I feel like this is an indication of where we're at culturally as well with the rise of conservative and with the rise of like making women smaller

and quieter and like putting them back in their traditional roles and stopping them from being loud and outspoken and and controlling them basically we're controlling them more and this it feels glaring to me but perhaps I am like totally jumping to conclusions you're given where we are I am not surprised that they have done this no so in that sense, yes, I would say potentially an overreaction. If you hadn't said the second part, I'd say maybe. But then you say all the second part and obviously you're not because when you take like half a step back and look at the bigger picture, like if we're looking at what we are, which is like scroll this morning and you see like a morning shed and you see

this and I've got one of those electrocurrent things that snatches my jawline and I fucking love it and like I put face masks. I've just told you about my 16 step fucking hair mask. When you think about it in the context of that, it's like, no, of course I'm not surprised. Like, this is what we do now. The beauty standards are outrageous. It's all accessible. We are being, you know, encouraged to spend our money in crazy places. And look, we will fall for it every single time.

Yeah, all of us. Me too. So, yes, on that level, perhaps it's like, well, what did you think was going to happen? But as you say, when you take a step back, for me, seeing that thing there, it just feels like lobotomy. It just feels like. Literally. it just looks like we'll hands me tell. Yeah.

And I think sometimes it takes something and maybe this is what's caused it for you, maybe it'll be something else for someone else and someone else to look at it and be like, oh my God, with some genuine perspective here, this is outrageous. That's the thing with perspective. Like take a step back.

Yeah. Take a step back and like look at human beings for what they are supposed to be, which is like creatures of connection. Yeah. Like that's what we thrive on connection. and how this morning shed where it takes two hours

to just get yourself to the door in the morning. Like more than two hours for some women. I literally caught myself doing that this morning. When I was doing my, I never washed my hair, which is genuinely like my top tip of motherhood is like just make peace with having filthy fucking hair

because you won't have time. Committing to what I was doing this morning, like put my mask on the second and then wash it out and then put this and I don't have the fucking time. And like, that, when you, when you realize that, it's like, when, and when I always think this, like, on the days when, like, it's just me and my kids, I don't wear makeup because, like, I don't have, I don't, I don't, I can't sacrifice the time to do that.

This is the thing. There's a cost to all of this. Yeah. There's a cost to all of it. Yeah. Not just a financial cost, but like a time cost as well. And what are you, what are you not doing in place of doing all of this stuff? Yeah, yeah.

Are you not sleeping? Well, exactly. Are you not going out? Yeah. Which, and like, what's worse? Like, yeah, you're, what's worse? You're not sleeping. you're not taking that time which humans need

to like rest and recuperate and let our bodies re um what's the word you know recover recover but god forbid like you stick with your fucking mouth open are you not spending time well yeah are you not spending time with like the people around you and it's like I don't know I just I feel like the more we talk about this the more I research this the more I look into this the like the more I feel

that maybe my old stance was like well whatever makes you happy you know feminism like whatever makes another woman happy the more I feel like that's a bit hollow and because actually I do all these things not all those things

but like I wear makeup I have hair extensions I sleep with cast trial all my stuff you know I get my eyebrows done I don't know stuff like this and I say to myself oh I don't want I do it

because it makes me happy but it's not true I don't think that's true no and I don't think I don't think that's true contentment and true happiness. I think it's moving me closer to a beauty standard. So that gives me the illusion of happiness.

But I don't think, no, I don't think so. I don't think it's actually what makes me happy. I'm not going to stop those things. I'm just a caveat all of that. I'm not going to stop those things. I'm not there. I'm still scared about aging. I don't really go out without makeup on.

So I'm definitely not there. But I don't believe any more that that, and I do think it's like, possibly. And I say all of this, having said all of this, but like, I do think it's maybe like toxic feminism a little bit when we say, oh, it's just like whatever makes a little woman happy because we are like, we are glossing over actually what makes people truly happy. That's really interesting. I don't know. I actually, I think, well, we talked about this a little bit because when I, when I had this conversation on Lorraine about Botox, I made a video

afterwards saying whatever and I got quite a lot of shit for from people and I got one message. I know we talked about this already where someone was really crossed with me and basically saying I was a hypocrite because I worked with LMS and they did anti-aging things and I work with this and it's like how can you and I feel deeply uncomfortable within myself trying to unpick that but I also feel deeply uncomfortable trying to have this conversation because I feel like people will be listening to you speak and listening to us having this conversation and instinctively their reaction from defensiveness from whatever it is will be to try and call you out or catch you out or invalidate what you're saying by proving that you're a hypocrite. And I think we've

really often, and I think that's the problem with feminism here. And that's the issue with this like toxic feminism or this idea that we're bad feminists. So this is the contradiction is it's like we we undermine each other and we undermine any critical thinking and any sort of bigger picture thinking by trying to trip the other person up. And I think that's very often deflection and I think we're very often trying to invalidate the person and prove that they're wrong and we're right and look you know you have to believe that you're right when you're living your life and you're making choices for yourself if you don't think you're right then what the fuck is the point you know what I mean like you've got to back yourself and

I think sometimes when somebody challenges you or challenges the way by which you live it can feel quite an attack and I think that's what happens with this conversation quite a lot you know we invest time we invest energy you know we have to we have to go against everything we've been conditioned to do and to think in order to challenge ourselves here. And that's a really difficult thing to do. And ultimately, you do just get swept up in shit. You know, that's kind of how that happens. And it's like, oh, you're getting older and then you want to do this and you're going

to do that and you're going to. And starting to like unpack that yourself and unpick that yourself whilst looking at everything culturally and unpicking the culture and exploring that. Like, it's a really overwhelming thing to do. And I just, I worry that we just can't have this conversation in a way that's like even remotely helpful. productive or productive because people will just try and trip us over we'll trip ourselves over we'll confuse ourselves we'll feel guilty i think that's a really big thing that people feel when they

whenever they explore this is they feel guilt but i i think i think all of that all the messiness is just like reflective of how complex and and like difficult that this subject is it's super nuanced and i don't think i don't i don't speak for you but i don't think either of us have like a concrete definitive stance on this i know that i'm still trying to like grapple with it all and figure it all out and I'm not there and I know I'm a hypocrite as well. God, it's as fucking savage though. Like, you know, I look at my kids and they look

like me or Arlo particularly and... Yes, she really does. I know. And when I speak to her and I look at her and I just think, I don't want the world to change you and it's like, but it will and it's like what am I saying to her if I change myself not that I have or would

but you know what I mean? Like I think about this all the time with like the Kardashians or you know maybe it's my sunglasses. But like if I were to change something fundamental about the way that I looked, how would I level that? How would I, you know, I talk sometimes. I'm like, oh, I think I want a brow lift or I think I want to. Like when I say these things, I kind of say them like, ha ha, I would love that.

And then it's like, but what would, how do I make my own piece with myself if I were to do that? And I actually don't know. But then I'm like, well, if that's the line, then what am I doing with the anti-aging stuff? What am I doing? I put my silly LED mask on every night. Like, where's my line? Exactly. I know. It's so complicated. I've always been so conscious of my chin. Always. It's called like the light chin. We've got like a double chin. All I thought it was like a like a diet cook. Like a light. The family light. The light family chin. I've always. And then it's funny because like Tommy now, Dave says to me all the time, he's got your chin. And then suddenly I see this chin in like a completely different light. I'm like, oh my God, he's got my chin. That's so cute. That's my chin. That's amazing. That's amazing.

Like, why would I ever want to change that? I don't know. It puts things in it, yeah, we really need to wrap up. I know. And this is, sorry, players nodding at us. Yeah, wrap up, you too. I know, for God's sake. We say this about so much, but I feel like this is a bigger conversation.

Yeah. And I think we need to do, like, a series on it. Maybe talk to some people and maybe try and land somewhere. Yeah, if you can send in your thoughts on this. And we don't, I mean, I think. we're saying this to nice people. We don't need it to be like, well, you're hypocrites because we know we're hypocrites.

So if we start it from the place of everybody's a hypocrite and we all know about it, like we've really... Can we put that to one side and focus on the argument? Yeah, our part within the beauty industry and marketing and all that shit aside because we're well aware of that. If we could like try and have this as a conversation, we can go in have a little think about like what's best to do. But also if anyone has any thoughts on any of this,

we'd really appreciate it because we've probably just caused more questions than we've given answers. We're sorry. What surprise. What a peaceful place you find yourselves on this Thursday morning. Head spinning. Guys, we will see you on Monday. Love you to bit.

Thank you later. Bye. Bye. Should I delete that as part of the ACAST creator network?