Should I Delete That? - Life as a Female Racing Driver with Abbi Pulling

Episode Date: September 8, 2024

In this week's episode, Em and Alex are joined by racing driver, Abbi Pulling. Avid listeners will know how obsessed the girls are with Formula One, so getting Abbi on the pod was a massively exciting day! Abbi talks the girls through her career, the importance of the F1 Academy and how she avoids feeling afraid. She even offers to take a reluctant Alex (Safety Susan according to Em) for a spin!Follow us on Instagram @shouldideletethatEmail us at [e-mail] by Daisy GrantMusic by Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The thing that annoyed me the most was when I was in go-karting and I was in cadets, so it's like the age group from 8 to 11. The dads would go, oh, don't let that girl beat you. And then the kid would fire me off. That was the thing that really annoyed me. And again, when you beat them, it made it that much better. Hello, welcome back to Should I delete that. I'm Alex Light.

I'm in Clarkson. How are you, Alex? I'm good. For full transparency, guys, it is quite late at night. It is. It's almost nine o'clock. It is nine o'clock that we're doing this. How crazy. Okay, right. For context, for a very long time, Alex has been the stability to this show. She has been the organizer and the constant. And I feel like recently, you've matched me on spontaneity and chaos. And it's two pluses on a magnet. It's fun. Don't get me wrong. It's. fun but we're repelling each other we are we are just we're just changing the way that we operate we're just doing at nine and my favorite thing was that you send me a text and you said if you're still up can you do it now and it was quarter to nine I was like oh she knows me well I did think I know she likes a 6pm bedtime you know I love a 6pm bedtime alas I'm working Ew.

I know, but not even this. Like, of the work, so annoying. Anyway, do you have anything good or bad or awkward for me? I have all three. Fabulous. What do I start with? I'm going to start with my good. Hit me.

Listeners, and you will be very aware of my cooking stuff, my cooking journey, right? The ups and the downs are mostly downs. But I've shared it all, and I have a deal. I have been sponsored. by... A deal. I have a deal. I've been sponsored by the brand that has got me back into cooking.

How cool is that? Yes. Yes. A hard one deal. For the girl that last summer couldn't make broad beans. Couldn't boil them. Not make them.

Boil them. It's still caught. The beauty of Hello Fresh is that it gives me very specific instructions to follow. And that is the only reason I'm able to do it. However, it's not

the point I'm cooking and it's all down to them and they've they've noticed that you know I keep talking about them I think and and and here we are I've got something to show for it I'm so excited here we are well I'm very proud of you this is your ninja this is like when I got sponsored by the by the air friars after yeah everything I owned in it yeah you deserve that so gratis for no I think you deserve it I think I deserve it yeah and I just showed you what I made tonight. A little green curry, Thai green curry. Beautiful. Yeah, it was beautiful. Thank you. Couldn't pay me enough to eat it in my current state, but beautiful. It wouldn't be nice. I had to put chili flakes on top of the photo and then like I scraped them all off to actually

eat it. My food sponsorships are currently on pause. Yes, that makes sense. Which is fine. Well, that is good. I'm proud of you. Thank you. Do you have any good for them? Yeah, I've got goods. I've got goods in my good is our, was our Monday, Monday, yeah, was Monday, last Monday, we had the best day. Like, we, we love our jobs and we have great days all the time. But we had two guests on Monday. The one we're listening to today, the amazing Abby Pulling, who is just so cool. And then next week's guest, who is genuinely one of my heroes. I have not shut up about her on this podcast. or in my real life or on my Instagram for as long as I've had vocal cords. We had such a good day. We were giddy. We were giddy. We were giddy. It was the giddiest of days.

Giddiest of days. It was awesome. We laughed. We just, we just giggled. We did. It was cutesy. It was mindful. It was demure. We were brats. No. Apparently that's over now because summer's over.

So there's no more brats summer. No, September, yeah. It's mindful winter Or demure winter With cutesy I can get on board I can do cutesy It's a lot easier

To do pregnancy Cutsi than if to do pregnancy brat Cutsi's fine for me Yeah Just like throw on a Throw on a dungaree There's nothing brassy about being pregnant

No cutsy I don't know I'm gonna put a bow I'm gonna put a bow on myself I'm gonna wear a cardigan Surely pregnancy is It's like the ultimate brattiness.

It's like total messy chaos. Bratty, brattie's kind of like, no, brattie's like fun and like I'm like a little, like a little racy. And like I'm going to wear like an incy binty little bikini and I'm going to have like my thumb showing over the top of my cargo pants. I've been getting brat all wrong then. I don't know. Maybe I've been getting you more. I thought it meant chaotic and messy and and like just you're all over the point. and you can't like pin yourself down and it's stressful and nope just describing myself

I that's not rat summer that's owl summer it's it sounds familiar okay bad my bad why did I not talk about this week last week my bad is that I've got to the bottom of my bleeding which I've talked about a lot on the podcast sorry guys and I have a retained placenta how rank is that I've been thinking about this most days. I also had a really bad theory which will probably make your bad worse. You know how your hair's still amazing. No, I know. I know. I know. Do you think it's because you've still got your placenta in there? I know. I think so. I really, really think so. I thought about the shower this morning, I thought, oh my God, they're going to have to keep it in because a hair has never looked better. You look so good. I'll take the bleeding. I'll take the potential

risk of infection. Honestly, though, doesn't it look so much better than it ever has? Yes. It's so long. I was crazy. I was literally thinking about it in the shower. I was like, Hell's hair is so long. And then you're like, it's because her body's still, she's pregnant. Oh, it's so gross. Also, they call it, they don't call it retained placenta. They call it retained products of conception, which means either retained placenta or retained fetal matter. And neither of those are good, but when I hear it, it just makes it sound like you've just left a bit of spunk in there. That's kind of what it sounds like. no i'm thinking more like conception that's what you need at conception conception conception is

eggs you know what i mean it feels like you've left eggs behind i'm just thinking is it like a baby toenail that oh they're gonna go and get it they're gonna go get it they're going to get it like when you're listening to this it'll be two days off my operation so that's good but i have to have a general aesthetic you won't have had it yet two days off i'll be i'll be having it in two days. Oh, I think it's a two days after. No, it off. Yeah, it's, I think it'll be nice for you not to have to sit on a blanket everywhere you go. I do feel like it's going to change your life. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Dex, I'm in the studio. Do you know what? That is my awkward. That is my awkward. It was so, so, so Dex is our new studio manager, and he's great. Um, he's brilliant. And, like,

I feel like he's already, he already knows way too much about us in the, like, three weeks we working together way too much but literally you have like a little dog put your blanket down wherever I go so I don't bleed out and leak everywhere and we've got these beautiful white sofas don't know if you've seen them on Instagram but you should they're gorgeous and I

can't ruin them with my blood so I put this shabby little rug I kept moving this little rug around and I just wonder if he thought what is she doing but he didn't ask bless him you let it go I think it's come

up enough that he could probably join the dots. We've talked enough about your placenta. I've got no dignity. But also out, can I say, I'm so proud of you because you've advocated for yourself because initially they told you it was going to be between

one and three months, which is absolutely barbaric. There is no way on earth they would leave a man bleeding out of his willy three fucking months. But with women, they're so happy just to go it's just part of mum. It's just part of motherhood baby it's just part of these things and you were like no bitches take it out and they

listen to you and i'm proud of you but i wish i had in the appointment because i didn't i was just like you know it's like it's like a it's like a figure of authority and you're like oh okay well what he's saying must go and dave was in there with me and dave said well can she take like what should she do in the meantime can she start the bleeding what does she do for the pain and he was like just take paracetamol and i was like okay then bye and looking back like hang on no come on I'm in constant pain and bleeding. Just take paracetamol. Anyway.

Yeah. Do you have any, well, I did my both, I did both of mine together there. Do you have anything bad or awkward for me? Oh, I've got an awkward for you. Love it. Little, small, but enough. Yeah. It's small and horrifying.

So I went to my friend's wedding, one of my oldest friends in the whole wide world. I went to his wedding at the weekend. So nice. And I was not feeling so great in the church. I was just feeling I was a little faint I suppose a little dramatic that is not the awkward I did not faint but um I just wasn't feeling great and you know what everything's like a little bit uncomfortable that you get really hot and it's like just trying to pull myself together anyway I tried to pull all my clothes off me not like take them off but just you know like air and out

it was a bit hot and I pulled my dress and as I pulled my dress I caught my knickers in my pinch so when I pulled them out and then I let go and I just had like the distinctive like like, ping of knicker to skin, which would have been fine, except it was literally during the, do you take this woman to be your unlawfully wedded wife? I will. Ping! I hate myself. What is what the wrong with me?

What's wrong with me? What have they done this? God. I sat down after that. You just kind of let them have their moment, could you? No, got it, no, no, no. It would be good if it was the bit where they say, does anyone have any objections to this marriage?

The priest barreled through that bit. He wasn't giving us a chance. I swear to God, I've never heard on social in my life. It's like, this guy knows. No, I'm kidding, but he was not pausing for thought. Oh. Yeah. But it was nice.

It was so nice. And I've got my other, like I've got my best friend's wedding this weekend. Oh my God. You do. How exciting. I know. In Barcelona, no less. Buffalo.

I know. Very exciting. But if I'm perfectly honest, it's been an incredible summer. But I am so ready to be just left, left now, abandoned. And just, just, just, just, I'll see you guys. I'll catch you when this. I'll see you when day by saving. starts next year. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, your hibernation time. Yes. And I guess that would

be my bad just before we get into the interview is although I am better and I'm doing as well as ever, I'm in this really frustrating bit where I'm feeling so good for so much of the day and I'm really getting through it. But with that has come hunger, which I haven't felt for months. So I eat and then when I eat and then really sick. And I think I've got to quite a good point of like balance but hunger's kind of thrown me off and and I'm exerting more energy I'm doing more so naturally I want to be eating more and whatever um and I'm not I'm not doing totally great there and like yeah I don't know it's just it's just another layer mentally I'm still doing better it's getting better and better and better all the time but I'm just going to adapt you know what I mean

I'm just being adaptable it's literally coming back to bite you the hunger yeah and it's just it's that's it's almost harder to be like, it's almost harder to explain it to people or to, like, I don't know, just to, like, because you're kind of fine when you speak to people and then you go home and you just cry for hours because you're just throwing up and everything hurts and you feel me sorry for yourself and I don't know, I'm all over the place, but I'm fine. It's fucking grim. Oh my God, it's so grim. But the end of summer means nearly the end of the year. Like we said, it's no Christmas. 100%. It's like

five sleep for Christmas. There's like little chocolate rain days and the test goes, I'm like, no, no, no. That's a very good thing. I'm going to start sending you like Christmas videos and Christmas reels. Thank you so much. Yeah. Exactly. If it could just start snowing, that would be fab.

Oh, I would love that. Yeah, I wouldn't love that. Speaking of, I've actually just got myself a bit carried away with all this talking and I've started to feel, call it nauseous. Okay. Let's wrap this up.

To wrap this up. Forgive. What a guess we've got for you? Oh my God, what a guest. Fans of this podcast will know that Alex and I have been getting into Formula well. Yeah, yeah. I've been, I've been into it for a little while.

I haven't. I just watched Drive to survive. You have a fixated. Yes, as you should. As so many people did. And we've wanted a guest for so long. who would come a woman in this space. We've been looking to speak to a woman in this space

for such a long time. And then my sister met Abby Pulling at Silverstone. Don't talk to us about the fact that my sister went to Silverston and me and Alex didn't. It's fine. We're fine, aren't we? So rude. And anyway, she met Abby

and she is just an incredible woman and a phenomenal driver. She tells us about a hugely successful career and about fighting for a place in an industry that's so male dominated and it was just the most incredible conversation. Incredible. Without further ado, here is Abby.

Hi, Abby, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much for being here. We have been so excited for this episode. We've talked, anyone that's been listening to the podcast for years will know that Alex and I have talked about our growing love of F1 sports about how many more women are entering the space and how exciting that is. and my sister met you at Silverston this year.

We're a bit jealous that the cat was at Silverston and I wasn't at Silverston and loved you and said you just have to meet Abby because she's just like the best, coolest racing driver ever and she's a woman and she's young and we wanted to talk to you about what it's like racing as a 21-year-old woman in a very male-dominated sport.

But I guess first thing we need to do is ask how you got into that. Well, thank you very much to your sister. It sounds like she's hyped me up a lot. I don't want to like not fulfill the expectation now. Impossible, you will. Yeah, how did I get into it? I mean, through my family. Yeah.

My dad raced on motorbikes, two wheels. He's a bit more crazy than me. I went to four wheels, a bit safer. And I just loved it. It was a hobby. Me and my dad went every weekend. He would work throughout the whole week. and go racing with me on the weekends.

And it just progressed onwards to be where I am now in the F1 Academy, getting a few trophies here and there, and I'm just loving every moment of it. That is so, I love you. I just started and now I'm in one academy. There was probably a few things in between. No, there was a lot in between. I mean, I was eight years old when I first properly started in a car.

So it was very much from the age of eight to 12, it was like just every kid's dream and then I was like oh what else can I do and then I started winning championships in karting this is like mixed competition as well um went up the ranks and then yeah we're like oh we can go to car racing car racing is the next step and I very much in my head all that existed was go karting and motorbikes because that's what I grew up with so then I got into Formula One and I was like oh this exists and going to single-seaters but getting into into single seaters is so expensive. Like it's a really, really hard kind of financial commitment to make for a family.

So we went into GTs. We thought it was more realistic because you can get like works, drives, manufacturers, so on and so forth. And then GTs, sorry. GTs like just a road car, like a GT3 car, GT, I don't know. I don't know how I was to explain it at Tintop. We call it a Tintop. and yeah we thought that was the most realistic thing

and then W series came about an all-female single-seater championship with like this is the way to get into single-seater racing it was all paid for it was prize money it was like the dream and yeah we went into single-seaters took a punt and then managed to get a drive off the back of going in British F4 we went to W-Series now F-1 Academy and British F4 so I've gone back to mixed competition as well as all female

so that was kind of as short as I can make it. I feel like we need to talk about what it was like as a young girl doing this in mixed competitions because it's not something. We still hear jokes about like women drivers. There's still so much competitiveness with young men in all sports, football, rugby, whatever. You know, we see the sort of pushback

that the lionesses are having. although women are like really excited by it still there's there's a kind of attitude in lots of circles and I imagine that's the case in motorsport not least of all because there aren't any Formula one female drivers on the circuit now despite the fact which I don't think many people realise it is a mixed sport there could be women there and there must be so many barriers to stop women getting into racing so I just would love to talk to you about kind of like what that like and what it was like for you and your dad to push through those barriers? For me, I was very lucky to actually have my dad, who was initially already interested in a

motorsport. When I took an interest in it, he like jumped, jumped for joy. It was like, because he's got two girls. So he didn't expect. Yeah. I mean, even so, that's kind of a not a great mindset to have or it's a bit different nowadays thinking you have two girls. So you're not going to have, you know, a racing driver. But when I took an interest, he was over the moon and he supported me massively, whereas I think a lot of young girls maybe don't have that support or they don't even get introduced to it at a young age. It's maybe, you know, in their 20s where they're like, oh, I, you know, actually I could have done that if I got introduced to it a bit sooner and I'd have liked to have done that. So

it is all very much an entry level thing that you've got to introduce it to girls when they're younger and that's through these STEM projects that are happening. Alpine have a race her program which is not just aimed at racing drivers, but mechanics. and engineers as well so they go into stuff a lot more in schools and exposing them to that and like you say

it's the things like F1 Academy where it's on Sky Sports it's massive it's viewed by loads as 16 of us female drivers showing that we can race and the young girls watch you're like oh I can do that

and then like I say the lionesses what they're doing showing that women can be in a male dominated sport it's all of that that's creating the change not in the short term it's not going to happen overnight it's all kind of for the next generation and it will you know we're already seeing it the license holders of young girls

in in go-karting as I mean when I was there I was like one of the only females whereas now you go to a carting paddock and there's 10 to 20 which didn't sound like a lot when there's hundreds of guys but it's getting so much better I'm still surprised that formula racing is a mixed sport so like technically f1 could have a female driver but never obviously never has right yeah i mean it is it is literally just down to finding a fast enough woman and when there's only like one percent of us have licenses it's just a math's like equation there's just not enough of us like it's hard enough for the guys to get it you know they have enough right they have enough struggles in in whatever way and and you know financially some obviously don't some do it's hard for anyone it was

only 20 that get to that level. There's obviously there's WEC and these are other championships that are high level. But in Formula One there is 20 drivers and that's it. And for one of them to be female when out of the millions of guys there's only a handful of females, it's just, it's literally, statistically, it's, yeah. Is that what it, because I was reading about that and I suppose this always happens. It happens with football a lot and I suppose we've seen that more because, of the like growing support for the lionesses and we see this like well women just aren't as strong

so they're not as capable is that an element in not not as capable as in not as capable of driving because you can be a phenomenal driver but you may not the argument I guess is that there's you don't have the strength to compete with the men is that true or is it just because it's statistically impossible that women aren't there to be honest it is probably a little bit of both to an extent like Formula One actually has power steering so in your roadcar you've got power steering it's really easy to turn you shouldn't I mean shouldn't get fatigued from it unless you're driving to Scotland or something whereas Formula 2 which is still really really really fast it has no power steering so in your cornering with really high downforce

and high speeds it's so much harder on your upper body right so So for a female, Formula 2 would probably be more physically demanding than Formula 1. Right. Interesting. But you couldn't do Formula 1 without doing Formula 2 first, right? Got to climb their arms. Yeah. In most cases, you do F2.

I mean, there's a championship called Super Formula, which is an F2 equivalent in Japan. They have power steering. So it's like, why can't you put it on an F2 car? And it's sort down to money at the end of the day. It's more expensive. And that makes it more expensive for everyone. so it's more expensive with the guys and the teams. Hopefully it changes.

I know there's conversations about it. Okay, so it's a bit complicated, isn't it? So if we could just like break it down a little bit for the, well, I was going to say the listeners also hers because I'm, I'm confused as well. You're in F4. Yes. And you're also in the F1 Academy. Yeah.

And F1 Academy is women only, right? But F4 is mixed. Yes. Okay. So you compete against men and women? Yes. So British F4 I competed in it in 2021

but ran out of funding You must have been 18 in 2021 Yeah I think I was around 18 And that was like it was like It was heartbreaking Like I had everything like ripped away from me But then that was where the W series was about And I was a reserve driver for that

So I always put things in perspective Because if I was a guy That would have been the end of the road Like there's so much opportunity now For women which I think needs to be spoken about because it is really hard for women but it's equally as hard for men

and if I was a guy I wouldn't have had W series and I wouldn't have had that free racing season to go into So if Formula 4 would have fallen through because you couldn't afford it Yeah that would have been Whereas because you had the F1 Academy you got funding

Yeah exactly So that's kept everything alive That's kept my dream alive And yeah like I'm leading the championship at the moment in an f1 academy and it's like I always always take a step back and I'm like this like wouldn't have happened

woman right now I guess technically speaking we'll take technically that's so cool and you're only 21 person right now no F1 academy oh sorry not in F4 sorry sorry I mean I'll take fastest person

don't fact check us in the British F4 championship I've also won a race so that's a mixed competition We've got a few podiums as well. Amazing. That's unbelievable. Can you tell us about the landscape of F4?

Because yes, it is mixed, but there aren't a lot of women in it. No, I think this is actually the biggest grid of women they've had. So there's, I think there's about 20 guys in the championship full time, or maybe a bit less, because by the time you're adding the four women that are on the grid, which is like, which is incredible. When I've been kind of growing up with it, there's never been four women in a mixed. category so that's like that's really special to kind of be a part of i think yeah that's crazy 16 men four women yeah i mean the numbers go up and down some don't do every race but it's consistently been four women at zandvoort so f1 academy race at zanvort and so did british f4 so a lot of the girls

kind of went and did the race with british f4 to um get some extra testing in and there was eight There was eight girls on the grid. Wow. Which is like, that's a lot. Impressive. And that's because of the F1 Academy. Yeah, it's all, it's all, it literally is showing that it's working.

And like, again, I, people always go, oh, but is, you know, EF1 Academy, it's so good getting the girls, is it actually working? I'm like, well, yeah, I'm living brief and proof. Like, I wouldn't be racing this year if it wasn't for it. I wouldn't have had the opportunity

to go back to British F4 and be competing against the guys again and the girls. So it's, and, you know, I've got a few trophies this year so that's also showing that it's working like it yeah undoubtedly it is and a big thing about f1 academy you know there's a talk about the progression obviously it's financially it's massive and you know i've said before i've not had the funding to continue so it's really important

for f1 academy to give the winner a prize so the prize is next year is fully funded in the the level above so whether that be f3 or like there's like a f3.5 is like frecker or gb3 that are different kind of forms of F3 so that's what we're aiming for is that prize what I wanted to ask not to get ahead of ourselves but are there any women in F3 yes so fellow Alpine Academy member Sifia Flerch okay my manager Alice Powell used to race in GP3 which is the old F3 she was first woman to score points in that um there's been Tatiana colder on but and now I'm struggling to find any more names like there's not many there's not been many of this so that's the that's the sad thing of it yeah but that's your goal yeah to be one of them names that's got there okay is there

is there power steering an f3 no no there's no power steering an f3 but it's a bit slower a bit less downforce so physically i mean i've driven an f3 car and it's definitely possible to be performing at a high level in that and to be winning races as a female for sure um i've just never driven an F2 car and all I've ever heard is it's hard for the guys let alone let alone for a woman so I think it's yeah that will be if I you know managed to get to F3 and perform well that's going to be where I'm in a limbo like what's the yeah what's next step because has there ever been a woman in F2 there has Tatiana Calderon went to F2 and she she struggled a little bit and she I mean she's um you look at it she's so strong she's she's

like built and she's put a lot of work into it and she's such a nice character as well but I mean I don't know I've not spoken to her too much about it but I think she struggled a bit physically I'm sure I mean yeah it's horribly difficult I don't know anything about what G4 is G4

yeah that's like cornering when you're cornering on your body on your neck that's the big thing in Formula 1 because you're getting like 5 Gs on your neck like an hour and a half to two hours it's your neck just becomes floppy. I don't like going over a lamp on the road because I don't know it's got my body.

But even like and we're talking about all them factors, I'm going to Singapore next is my next race. So I'm doing a lot on a heat chamber because you got your overalls on. You got your, then you've got your fireproofs underneath that. And you're sat in the car for a long time before you actually go racing. I mean, my race is a sprint race, only 30 minutes. It's not too bad. But you're just, you just sweat out so much because it's 70% humidity, 40 degrees.

is like we're at three o'clock in the, we're not like the main event. F1 is the main event. So we get the horrible timings and the worst time of day. So we're just buckets of sweat. You could like wring out our clothes. Honestly. It's gross. You must have to train so much.

What does that look like the physical training for this? Beyond the simulations, like beyond the driving itself, what's the training? Yeah, well, I mean, the best way to train. for racing is getting in a car and testing and doing all that because there's no way to really condition yourself to it otherwise but I'd say that the differences for us to like a more normal athlete is we have to do a lot on our neck and our core um yeah the heat chamber training is is big for certain races like Singapore and Qatar um and for me I do significant amounts of upper body because just to make sure that I'm strong enough we we train for the next

step so I'm currently training to be physically capable to drive in a free car so at the moment what I'm driving is I've not struggled in it all year really so because you're like over yeah well I'd hope so I've been I've been like training for the next step for a while now so I'm just about there I think okay I can't I'm so I'm so like I really want to not sound patronising but I'm so impressed by you I think yeah so like you've done so so much at such a young age. And it sounds like everyone that ever talks about you, everything that's ever written about you, just like from people who know a lot more about this than us, which is basically everyone, that you've just got such an incredible career ahead of you. But I would

love if, if you wouldn't mind, to go back to when you were 18 and you talked about when you were in F4, when your funding ran out, what does that look like for somebody who, for a family like yours who's trying to push your dreams in an environment that isn't necessarily generous particularly to women you know it's a I guess it's a risk for your family as much as anything but how does that feel well there's a lot of crying it was really like it was literally like everything that I've lived for I mean I've been doing it since I was eight years old it was everything was like ripped away really quickly and I was just heartbroken and it was tough, you know, on my family, specifically my dad, you know, bless him.

He's took so many risks for me over the years and I'm like, I need to pay him back 10 times more and in lots of hugs and card, birthday cards, whatever. Trophies, yeah. I mean, he has like my carting, we call it like my shrine. He's kept my cart in trophies all in order at home whilst I. I've been away, it's quite cute, really. But it was just such a scary time because it's the unknown, it's like, what do we do?

Where do we go, who do we look to? I just happened to be in the right place at the right time. I was just, I'd say every day, I was so lucky. And the weekend that I ran out of funding, and my dad was like, we can't do this anymore. I was leading a race, I come from like 11th, and then got hit off. So then I had a big crash and that kind of ruined it.

And then in the next race, I kind of like was all in my head and I crashed in someone else. That was all my fault. The next one was my fault, I'll admit that. And I was in the clerk's office and they gave me a penalty. I don't think I've ever said this to anyone before. It's like an insight. But they gave me a penalty and I just started crying to the clerk.

I'm so sorry, but I won't be able to serve the penalty. I felt really bad. I was like, because I can't afford to race at the next race. I felt bad that I wasn't getting the punishment. And it was just... Wait, do you have to pay? No, it was like penalty, so I got a grid penalty, so I would have to start the race, like a set.

And I was like, I'm just so sorry that I can't fulfill your punishment. It's like the noise set. It's like... Oh, no. But then, like... Oh. But there was no reason for me to be so upset

because the next weekend, I had the opportunity to go with W series in Zamvort, fully enough. And I qualified like fifth, and I haven't really done anything in that car and I was upset for no reason because I was out racing again the next weekend I don't think you're upset for no reason

I know that's I mean something that you've put your all into and you've been like gearing up towards and I imagine it's been an enormous part of your life it's my life it will yeah yeah and then to have it all just like all have the possibility

that it's just not going to be there that's terrifying it was definitely like tear worth tears were Yeah, I can nearly cry when I talk about it, but it's, but it also scares me because I was really, I was pretty depressed in that like couple weeks. And I had like a lot of friends around me, a lot of the racing drivers, all the girls from W series kind of putting their shoulder over me. I remember the flight to Zanvort, I was like so upset.

And again, I'm like, I don't know why I was because I was actually flying to go racing because of this all female championship. but there's like there's men and women out there or girls and boys that don't have that support like if something to that like that's going to happen they don't have someone to put their arm around them or like if they're feeling yeah again a bit depressed about it that's what that makes me sad and that's why I always say I'm so lucky

because I had all of that and I'm here now talking to you and well you were lucky that you had the W series to pull you and be your parachute and give you something else but I imagine as well and I don't want to put words in your mouth but you're going,

it's a different competition it's like you spend your whole life training and I don't know if this is the case for you but it definitely would have been for me if you've come up from eight years old competing against boys and then men

to feel like you're being taken away from that environment and put in a different race it's still although yes it's an incredible opportunity and it's given you your life and it's given you your career and it's put you back in Formula 4. It does take you out of what you were working towards specifically.

Yeah. And that is heartbreaking. Yeah. Particularly if you felt like you had something to prove, which I imagine you did because you definitely did. No, I think that's exactly what you've said, basically. I've grown up my whole life racing against guys in the last three years. I haven't, or maybe two, I don't know, two and a half years I hadn't been.

So to come back this year and kind of go back into that environment has been, I've really, really enjoyed it. I mean, not to, it's not to put anything down or say that one's better than the other. It's just, you know, we want to be racing against the best. You want to show that we could compete against the best. We want to move up the ranks, you know, at the end of the day, Formula One, it's all guys. So you want to show that you can beat the guys. And I don't want to, again, I don't want to put words in your mouth or make you labour this point if you didn't want to. But again, I feel like it's something that we saw a lot with the Euro.

in the World Cup with the women, and I keep comparing it to the lionesses, but I feel like it's quite relevant. When you have amazing women in sports, there are men who insist that they're only amazing women. They wouldn't be amazing if they were against the men. And there are certain sports where it is, and it can be level. Yeah.

And you have to look beyond the barriers like the power steering. So if you have to look beyond the barriers, you have to look beyond the funding, you have to look beyond the misogyny and the biases and the discrimination and all of that. And at the end of the day, when you look at the like physiological talent within a driver, you can be as good as or better than men.

And I feel like that's a really valuable opportunity that female racing drivers have that other sports people don't necessarily get because the playing field isn't level. Women aren't as fast in football and we're not as strong in rugby. But driving you could, you can be as good as the men, right? Yeah.

I mean it's one of a few sports where you can compete against the guys so I feel like it's always that just that bit sweet when you beat them as well yeah exactly but but it's you know obviously there's a lot of physical strength that goes into it but there's so much technically you know we go through the data we have our brake traces and you've got to get your brake traces right and and um your starts your clutch release your throttle inputs it's so like it's and that's all you know if we lose half a tenth in a corner we're like we need to fix that part of our application. So it's, yeah, there's so much more behind it

than just the actual physical strength. Sometimes I get confused between my clutch and my accelerator. You're not talking my language. Al had to pull over on a dual carriageway the other day because she didn't want to go above 50. I didn't want to go above 38. Sorry. On a dual carriage rate?

Yeah, yeah. What's wrong with this one? 100% am. I accept that fully. God, you're the kind of person that I'm honking out. Yeah, you are 100%. And all the reason that she cries in the car. This is such a good meeting of mine.

That's amazing. I know. I'm just looking at you in all. Like, I cannot relate whatsoever. I'd love to just have you passenger with me on the road, let alone, let alone like, in a race car. I would literally. A couple of years ago, I told Al about a two-seater car and she didn't believe me that two-seater cars existed.

You're joking. You thought they were all like five-seaters? Yeah, I thought I was talking with her for like 15 minutes. I was stunned, honestly. I mean, you did just ask what a duty car is and I feel like it's... Did you know that? I did, but there is a jump between the GT and the fact that some cars could have two seats. When we left the studio, we went outside and there was a little like Master MX-5 just outside.

Now I was like, oh my God! You're right! It's got three seats! Part of me thought you were just taking the pissing. out of me for ages. That's amazing. Yeah, so me saying that I've got one seat in my car, does that amaze you even more? My blown!

I'm like, no fucking way. What I put the dog? Oh, please. Will you just take her for a drive? Will you just take it once around in anything? I feel like we organise a track day. I feel like between us so you can do it. I think so.

I'd love it, but I'd like to be in control of it. No, no. I don't want to be a passenger. I definitely don't want to be a passenger. with you. She's not going to want to be in the fucking passenger seat for you, Al. You'd be with 38 miles an hour around the track. I might get up to like...

I might get up to like... Passed us. Oh, it's sad. Let's do it. I did one with Palmer Sport. Yes. Yeah, we could take Al to a Palmer Sport day. I don't like this.

I feel like that's a great content idea. I agree. Let's go. I don't like any of this. But can Abby come and Abby take you for a drive? I just think you should just go once round with her. Just to see how the other half live. It's only like a minute, minute of your life.

What speeds? What are we talking? What's the fastest you could take Alex? If we found you, like, with what, with the availability, what's the fastest we could get there going? Well, my car goes to about 170. And I feel like we can find a road car that gets like similar to that. Like, something with two seats to get similar to that.

Absolutely not. There's a radical. There's a thing called a radical. It's like open, so it's all open. kind of head. I don't know. There's no wind screen or anything. Or like roof. And they're really light, wait. So they could, they could definitely get to that at some point. I can't fathom a speed like that. Absolutely not. Honestly, when we hit 70 on the motorway, my husband's driving, I have to put my head down. I don't. Safety sues in here. How won't let us cross the road at any point if it's not

a zebra crossing? I'm going to ask an obvious question that I bet people do probably ask you a lot on all of this on safety like are you not scared no you are going very okay what's the highest that you reach what's what's the highest that you reach in your f4 cars so yeah my car it's about 240 kilometers an hour which is 170 miles per hour i've been in cars faster before but i've not racing uh i have racing a car faster actually but i don't know what that top speed is however you can't race being nervous or scared like if you're racing thinking you know budget has been a problem for me in the past if you're racing around thinking oh if I hit my front wing off and it costs me you know three four grand then you know you just can't think like that because you're going to be reserved

and you're not going to put yourself out there and make the overtakes or or take the risks which in most sport you've just got to you've always got to take risks on track and off track but I feel like it's one thing knowing that you can't be scared and then it's another thing just feeling pure fear and just being scared I think because I've grown up with it though I've grown up a bit rewired to maybe an average person

that hasn't been in a motorsport with your dad's bikes does he race did he race did he go and do like the TT and stuff no he said that he'd never do the TT he said that he's not crazy enough for that oh well that's good

my mum's from the art of man oh really yeah yeah they're definitely there yeah it's nuts what about your mom my mum my mum's a care worker okay does she hate this she she doesn't really get it I would hate like if it was my my husband would be one thing and then he was like and I'm taking the kid I'll be like oh no no no no she hasn't watched me since 2015 like in person because it was a go-cut race and it's like got a bridge it's got a loop it's a really

cool track and under the bridge I got kind of like hit off and there was a big accident and no one knew what happened under this bridge and everyone was like what's happened I was fine I walked away I was like oh I mean like I mean I was a kid so I just absorb everything but the other guy was a bit in like a bit hurt and she was like never watching you again no not coming to any of the races no so you can't say you're never racing again but like no just never watching yeah the mum was yeah my mum was like no I just can't watch wow I was like fair enough I'm going to keep doing it but yeah is that the worst crash you've had.

No. No. I don't know what. I've been touch word. I've been quite lucky. I've not had anything bad. But it's when there's people that pass away, especially, you know, in junior categories,

there's been like a few in recent years, past five years. There was Antoine Hubert. And then there was Delano. It was last year. So that was really recent. And that was in a car. So Antoine was in F2.

So that's a few steps away from me. but Delano was in the next step for me essentially so it makes you realise actually it's dangerous and there's even you might have seen Billy Munger so Billy Munger he's lost both his legs so he went right underneath a car really nice guy but that was in an F4 car so it is still super dangerous

yeah and even more so I think at the lower levels because the crash structure is as strong as what like f1 has to go through a lot of a lot of pressure loading tests well that's very interesting because that's quite a lot of criticism leveled at f1 is that it's so safe now that it's making it's so safe like i mean i'm not saying that's that's yeah that's not my criticism that's what i hear all the time that's what the criticism that i've heard leveled at f1 is that i know it's definitely not a bad thing i mean so many formula one drivers in the past lost their lives Yeah, whereas now it's arguably much better entertainment

knowing that they're probably going to be. Oh, 100%. In the past, it would be lucky if they went through a race without someone passing away. That's like the 80s, we're talking about. But that's like, L'Aloffman TT is still like that now. Yes, no, is it? It's scary.

Like last year, they, what was it, Southern 100? Anyway, but I mean, yeah, every year they lose like at least one driver and spectators. Spectators, yeah, because the spectators are literally, on the curb like watching because they drive on the road and then they're just there I was going to watch it this year

with my daughter and then I just had this thing I was not the T2 Southern 100 which is just afterwards and I was like I can't take Arlo I said this is so irresponsible and then I was like oh my God what are these people doing

it's so dangerous and it is wild that there's like people out there but but there are people like your dad and like you that just live and breathe the sport

and it just doesn't make sense to safety Susan and I I mean to be fair I get why like you're just like I mean it's some people that like die hard football fans and like to the point where they're like the personality changes when they go to a football pitch I'm like I don't quite get that but other football fans get it so it's yeah so seeing it from that perspective I I understand it as well but you have like lie there at 3 a.m probably and be like

what's like oh shit this could you know this is dangerous no not so much it's like it's when a big incident does happen it kind of for that week you're like God it's dangerous but you just power free

you get on with it I mean you know we all know out there what we're risking and you love it yeah it's I mean at the end of the day

anything's dangerous nowadays you know walking crossing the road is dangerous don't tell that it's not mentally prepared for this she will not get home she will be stuck on

this side of the road now I live here I would say the differences from us would say driving on the road is more dangerous than actually racing because on the road you don't know what everyone's thinking and people have got their phones access to I mean you can't have a phone in a race car yeah I mean unless you're doing something like really crazy but none of us have our phones in a race car and we all know where we're going you know our end

destination is the finish line and what corner's coming up we we all are there for the same reason whereas on the road someone's in a rush someone's not in a rush so yeah do you ever find with when, how do I word this? It doesn't sound, it sounds stupid, like I don't know anything about this, which I don't really, but when you're racing other drivers who are more ruthless, I guess, like, that must be quite difficult because they will just, they will do anything to win, and that's when it gets dangerous, is that right? Yeah, I mean, I found this difference between F1 Academy and British F4, I've found that, I mean,

I've been very lucky this year that I've been at the front most of the time in F1 Academy. so I've not had too much wheel to wheel but in British F4 they it's really like any gap they go for it and it's like even if there's no gap they still go for it and it's a bit bit more like cuspy I guess the word is it's quite cuspy the racing sometimes whereas I feel like we have a lot more respect in F1 academy and we're much more like okay like fair enough you're there we're not going to like we're not going to have a ding-dong for no reason do you think that's because your women? I don't, I don't know what it is and I don't want to like create that

conversation or the women aren't racing as hard because we still race really hard I think we're just, I don't know, we're just not crashing into each of them. I think there's a lot more and that's a great thing. I mean, well then saying that there are still crashes so I can't. I mean, but statistically speaking, women are actually better drivers.

Yeah. I'll whisper it even though I know it's only women, it's into this podcast and we will not get complaints. But like insurance companies will make insurance lower for women than men. Yeah. I know that because all of my mates from racing hate me for it because all the lads are like, you get cheaper insurance and what I'm like. Does that even apply in racing too?

No, no, no, not racing insurance. I just do my road insurance. Like I get it like 200, 200 good cheaper than them. Yeah. Sucks to be you. Yeah, exactly. What car do you drive normally? I drive a Ford Fiesta.

Love that. A normal one. It's an ST line. So it's not like, it's not an ST. It's not an ST line. so it's just a bit more powerful. I can get by a lorry if I needed. I used to have a similar ice.

Are you lost? I am lost. Have you ever experienced like a, because like, as we said, it is a like completely like male-dominated atmosphere and environment. Have you ever encountered any like toxicity within that? And yeah, like interactions with the male drivers or just probably the people within the industry. I would say

recently it's not it's died down a lot it's more social media recently like in this day and age social media is like the worst Twitter people you know there'll be people that are like she's you know

she's only winning because she's in an all female championship's like well actually doing both by the way but it's also like also I think it shows that the level in both championships are very high because you know if the competition's close in

in F1 Academy and it's You know, if I'm able to compete, you know, at a good level in the British of four, that means the grid is still very competitive. Right. But if I think back to the worst thing that annoyed me the most, or kind of fuelled me the most, I would say, was when I was in go-karting and I was in cadets, so it's like the age group from 8 to 8 to 11. And it was the dads. The dads would go, oh, don't let that girl beat you.

And then the kid would fire me off because dad had said not to let the girl be you can't be behind a girl and that was the thing that really annoyed me and when you look like again when you beat them it made it that much better but it was just it was always the dads that hated me more than the actual people that I was racing against that's so toxic for the sons as well it's about right though isn't it?

Men are going to hate women a lot more than children will and then when when I was like winning championship This is now in the junior category. I was leading and I was a young girl. I was a young girl and a lot of the competition were 17-year-olds because it was the junior one and there wasn't too many young drivers at all coming in. So it was more 15 to 17-year-olds

and I'd come in at 13, I think, or something like that. And straight away I was winning and they were straight on the Facebook group of this championship like she's cheating, like they're illegal. and various other things and it was like just let me just have my moment yeah yeah

that's really frustrating yeah how do you cope with the social media side of things just don't really look at it or if any if I do look at it I just kind of I'm like what do you know because at the end of the day

what do they know you're the one driving in F4 and the F1 Academy yeah exactly no exactly it's it's something that it's really easy to get, especially since, like, this year in F1 Academy, it's following Formula One. So it's a huge profile.

And every time I've, you know, finished a race weekend, my profile gets bigger and bigger. I think, you know, especially on Instagram, it's like doubled or tripled this year. And it's like, with that, you then get double or triple the comments that are negative. Well, you get mostly positive, but you get the negative ones as well. Do you find that you're mostly followed and supported by men or women? You know what, when, about a year ago, it was probably like 20% women, so, what's 80% of my mouth was awful, 80% men. And then I checked it recently because I was talking to it with another driver who has like a 10% 90% split. And I've got nearly 5050 now, which I think is awesome.

That's really nice. I think that's cool on both fronts. I think the fact that you're being followed by men is a good thing because I really think that is that's where the change will happen is when men get behind women's sports and they watch it and enjoy it anyway. Yeah and a lot do respect it in the way that they respect men's sports. But then to have so many women following you gives me so much hope as a mum of nearly two girls to have like these opportunities and these heroes and these these platforms that just didn't exist when we were growing up yeah i mean i think i think like you say the coolest ones when you get comments and it's like a bloke so you know sorry that's really like north of me to say

bloke and when you get a guy that's like actually to be fair she's competing in this and she's beating the lads like fair play they're like the ones you think oh yeah i mean i get that yeah i get that and how do you when you beat the men in their four how do they take it fine i think i mean i don't i just get on with it they respect game yeah so i yeah i think so i yeah i think so. I don't know. I've not asked them. I need to ask them. Yeah. I mean, it's it's a bit embarrassing if they can't. Do you know what I mean? No, I think I think a lot of them like know that I'm like not an idiot. I don't know how else to say. Like they know they're just as, you know, I don't want to win just as much as they do. So yeah, I think

they respect it. They also have to probably respect that you're better than them. So it's like, well, what are you going to do about that? Yeah. Well, yeah, exactly. I mean, even like, I mean, I get frustrated even if I get beaten, but it's, but if they've driven a better race, they've driven a better race at the end of the day. Yeah, you're an athlete. That's the game. Do you think there will ever be a woman in F1? Yes, I think it's a matter of when, not if.

I think there's definitely, like the trajectory right now, it's such a healthy time to be a woman in sport and motorsport. Like there's so many initiatives, F1 Academy. race her there's the iron dames um there's like a formula women competition there's a lot out there at the moment uh and i always say i want to be eight years old again because i want to have them opportunities and like then be like a couple years ahead of where i'm now but i mean like i said i wouldn't be here if it wasn't for them so yeah i think it's a changing environment it's evolving and it's probably

going to be a young girl that's watching that's going to get there you know, you can't put a time frame on it I'd love for it to be me but you know I'm 21 years old and there's like Kimmy Antonelli who's 18 who's just signed

to Mercedes so I know that I mean I'm still really young but age might be against me in that regard but also maybe look at Alonzo you're going to be fine I know but I also make the argument yeah of there's

he's old anyway he's a lot of I mean, he's been in F1 longer than I've been alive. Yeah, wow, that's nuts. Yeah, but he, yeah, if we do see a woman in F1, it won't be an 18 year old because they, they won't be physically strong enough at the end of the day. You're your strongest and when you're in your late 20s to early 30s, I think, as a woman. That could be you.

So I still have, I still have time. Yeah, absolutely. Just got to put the working in the gym. Yeah, you are putting the work in. I can't wait to see you in F1 I am excited for that day And then you'll get your tickets Yeah exactly

Oh my god Will you invite us if you get to F1 I can't I can't knock now We've got it We've got the same We invite us to F4 I'd love to come home Yeah we'd love to see you do your F4

Yeah that'd be so cool Yeah but we can get tickets We can invite it for us No for sure Weirdos we'll just talk you I've got four Just be on the edge like I was following you.

On the side. You need pom-poms, though. You have to have pom-pom. We can do that. Absolutely. That's fine. That'll be in high vibe. Don't crash it to me. I've got four races this year, so you can...

One's in the UK, three abroad. We'll probably come to the UK one if that's right. Yeah, I'll let you off. Singapore does have fun, but... Singapore is an amazing city. I've raced there once before, and it's like the food, like, just... It's such a clean city as well. It's really nice.

they've got like an underground but it's twice a size and a third of the population of London so it's just it's really nice I'm had you in there it's really nice do you love the traveling because obviously there's so much involved isn't there one thing that is really annoyed me about the travelling recently is I keep getting ill from the flights like I'm even a bit nasally now it's because I'm on a flight all the time and you're so susceptible on a flight to just getting a cold and I've had like bronchitis this year I've had like four colds and it's like I don't need this. I need to get training again,

I need to get the gym, but it's really fun. Yeah. Although you don't get to see too much of it all. No, you see a specific bit, I like it. Yeah, you go from the airport to the hotel, to the track, to the airport. To a simulator somewhere.

Yeah, in a dark room in a simulator, so. This has been absolutely fascinating. It's so cool. I'm so excited to, like, continue to witness your career and see where, yeah, where it takes you. Beside me in a car as well, that's definitely happening. I will not read out until that has happened. I will need a helmet.

Of course. I'm not going to have a head. And a full body helmet. Does that exist? Bubble wrap. I actually have a bubble wrap suit. Do you see? Yes.

Fine. If you can come looking like an absolute lunatic, she'll go in the car. I mean, this has been amazing. Amazing. Amazing. leave the links to your Instagram amazing needs

so people can come and follow you and any other social platforms that you're using and in the meantime they can follow you in the F1 Academy and in the F4. Thank you so much. Thank you very much.

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