Should I Delete That? - Life as a Stripper

Episode Date: August 4, 2024

In this week's podcast, Em and Alex are joined by journalist, podcast host and stripper, Heidi Holland! Heidi quit her 9-5 to dance in strip clubs and is ready to spill the tea in this episode! She shares her thoughts on the term sex worker, why she's not afraid to take her top off and why she finds being called "sexy" boring. She also dives into what drives men in particular to visit strip clubs, including their desire to open up to someone or become a hero. Alex and Em fired as many thoughts as they could at Heidi, about sex trafficking, her relationship with women and how much money she makes. but with so many more burning questions, stay tuned for a part two!Follow Heidi's work on Instagram @sexonomic.pod and listen to Sexonomic here: https://taplink.cc/sexonomicFollow us on Instagram @shouldideletethatEmail us at [e-mail] by Daisy GrantMusic by Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Men actually have a serious problem with being able to express themselves. They feel they have to come to me, a dancer who doesn't know them and express their problems, that means that they can't open up to their family or their friends. Hello and welcome back to Should I Delete That? I'm Alex Light. And I'm in Clarkson. Tell them about your dream last night. out. I dream that Em and my mum teamed up to slap me in the face. Like they were egging each other on. Mom was like, you do it. And Emma was like, no, you do it. And then in the end they were like, let's just both do it. And I got a slap on each cheek. Not to victim blame. But what had

you done? It's definitely my fault. It was because, okay, so we, this is so boring. It's so boring when you hear of people's dreams. But basically, I was trying to tidy up everywhere. You two were chilling and you were like, stop tidying. And I was really tying hard to tidy up. And then you're like, stop tidying. You're so annoying. You're not even doing anything. You're not even tidying anything. Everything's still messy. You're just like making everything more messy. And I was like, people who say other people's dreams are boring could, like, are so short-sighted out. Because people's dreams tell us so much about what's going on in their brains right now. Like, I have no psychology qualifications whatsoever. And I can infer a lot from that dream. actually it's probably off the back of our is it just me last week yes no i think you're trying to control everything i think you're aware that me and your mom probably both think you are doing a great job and you need to let go a little bit and relax and you know that you're not taking our advice so you're trying to hide that part of yourself from us and you got confronted with it in your dream

doesn't that sound right aha correct nice correct and i got slapped literally It's the thing, it's like, you don't even need us. Like, you could have just made us up for all intents and purposes, which I now know how to use that expression. It's all coming back to me so vividly that I was like, I was looking at both of you, like, say sorry. You were like, no. And I was like, say sorry. This is so, like, indicative of the fact that we do use other people as a stick to beat ourselves with so much. Like, we really think that, like, everyone's judging us.

So we make up scenarios and put them in other people's heads and then hurt ourselves with our anticipatory. like judgment that hasn't even happened yet totally story of my life because I personally if you want to tidy a house that's between you and you I don't give a shit I'm not going to slap you for it no no actually in fact I'm such tidy my house I was quite horrified I'm currently paying two women to do it for me so if you want to come here and do it for free that's this your good I'm so I'm so of course it's not good it's also my awkward yeah it's also my awkward um but it's my good oh okay okay tell us everything okay okay they're amazing guys if you haven't seen it on Instagram I have high well then I got a bit of shit for it so

then I got a bit upset about it so I'm all over the place but that's just my why oh because I wasn't acknowledging my privilege and like that I was paying for someone to come and tidy and help me and I just read it at the wrong time and I just because I'm feeling so like I I don't I haven't been this vulnerable online for ages and I'm really trying to share all of it and like the good the mental health sides of HG and how much the mess in my life is affecting me so I tried to share it like that and then basically got this DM from this woman being like I mean she literally finished the message saying be humble and as I read it in me there was my therapyized Jacqueline feminist head was

going she wouldn't be saying this to a fucking man but in but in my weak vulnerable pregnant hormonal emotional state I was like oh my god you're right I'm sorry I should have been done it's my privilege because of it anyway so I got myself into a bit of to do it. Now I've got a vulnerability hangover. So there's that. But, and I am really lucky that I've done this. You can't caveat everything. We can't. It's too, it's too much. It's a lot and it's a lot that we expect of women, which I find a bit. It's like, yeah, because it's like, you find a woman struggling and it's like, oh, you've got to, you got to knock. And it doesn't matter. You know what? We don't get into that all of that right now. The decluttering. So the company is called You Need a Vicky,

and I hired them because my friend had used him, Ashley used him. And I thought, Ashley's really got a shit together and I cannot relate um so I was like I will hire who you've hired so I just wrong this woman and she they like she's got a team of I thought it was just her and I thought she came and did like a little wardrobe spruce no no this is a 15 strong team of people and they send like different numbers depending on the job how quickly you need it doing like and they can do all sorts of things so for me when they first came I was like I need to do my room and I need to do Arlo's room because I cannot get on top of this shit. Like there was just mess everywhere.

I don't know what fits me. I don't know what fits Arlo. I'm so ill. I haven't got the spare energy to do it. And then every time I look at it, I hate myself for the fact I haven't done it. So it was just causing a very negative spiral. It was not making me feel good. So I was like, that's why I did it.

Anyway, they did my room yesterday. And I was like, they were always going to come back today to do Arlo's room. They're going to have to come back tomorrow too. because once you, it's like, once you've picked this gab, you realize, I was like, oh my God, you can't just do this one room and then leave the rest of it. Like, I can't, don't do that, don't go, because it's shone a very bright light

onto the rest of everything. And they're amazing. They're amazing. Oh, my God, okay, I don't know where to start, right? Have you ever watched the home edit on Netflix? No. Oh my God, okay, is it about them just like organizing spaces. And this is literally like my version of pure,

porn, like pure porn. And I'll just put pure porn, like, pure, pure porn. Pure porn. Like, there's nothing, nothing in life that's, like, more exciting to me. I absolutely love these two women. You've got to follow them. But, like, you'll become obsessed with, like, decluttering. They're amazing.

Like, they pull out everything in a certain space. So it's like, they pull out, like, right now they're doing a chest of drawers. So they pull out everything from the chest of drawers. And then they call me up every, like, half an hour. And then I go through it. Yes, no, yes, no, yes, no. And then we move into one new section. I want it so badly

It's amazing And then we've got everything in bags To go to charity shops and whatever And then that they That was organised a collection Which is super duper helpful Because obviously no car And

That is incredible I know I know They're literally amazing And they've completely already I woke up this morning I'm wearing a vest this morning That I have been mourning

but not well enough to look for for like four months I've known that this thing exists but I was like I can't find it I have to just concede that it's gone now I haven't got it in me to search high and low and it's back it's been revived yeah and I put stupid de-age and now I've got stupid

white beard and patches all over it so but anyway I'm very happy I am really jealous you're going to oh my God when they leave you're going to be like oh my god I want a tour I know yeah 100% everyone like I've been so ashamed of pockets of this house that we just like can't you know like and and then I was getting DMs being like well why can't your husband do her I was like guys I don't think you realize how much my husband does like he is at capacity at some point like something has to give and like when like just from my experience of oh my god like in my first trimester of pregnancy like I couldn't move yeah I couldn't do I can do I can do anything like I'm and I am like I am like I am like I am like, okay, yes, I am such a bimba sickness, but like I couldn't do a thing. Like, if I

have the norovirus, I can't even, like, I couldn't lift Tommy. So I am not, I am not in the least bit surprised that you are struggling. Yeah. To like keep on top of the house. Because that requires a lot of energy, both mental and physical, both of which is not really there. Yeah. So, yeah, this has been amazing. I'll get on to my awkward in a minute, but have you got anything for me? Oh, okay. I'll start my awkward. I'll start my awkward. Um, my Instagram algorithm knows that I am neurotic and anxious and terrified and it shows me all these these reels about babies and like baby safety and stuff which I absolutely hate but I feel compelled to watch anyway just in case I might need it one day anyway there was one about a baby what to do

if a baby's choking is awful so you know the back blows and blah blah blah and then I was looking through the comments section and then someone said I bought I bought a deck hocker and it actually ended up saving a child's life a deck hocker right so i was like oh my god i need a deck hocker then so i looked it up a deck hocker just bear with me right okay so i looked up a deck hocker and i was like before i buy this i'm going to ask so basically i organized family first aid for my entire family on sunday because like my the twins look after all the babies all the time and they don't have a clue like they run away whenever like any sign of emergency they just run away they that does not sound like a trait I would look for in a child mind

exactly so I was like right we need to just get them at least like a basic level of first aid understanding so I was like I won't buy the deck cocker until I'm going to ask the woman on Sunday should I buy it do you recommend it so they're around there she she's around there we're all there there's 12 of us the entire family are there and she's doing the thing and then we get on to choking and then she was like any questions i was like yes do you recommend the deck hawker do you recommend the deck hawker and she was like i don't understand what you mean i don't understand what you're saying and i was like oh i think maybe it's a brand then but it's like it's like it's called a deck hawker and it basically like sucks the like whatever's

stuck in in the throat like it sucks it out a deck hawker and she was like do you mean a de choker I just read it as deck hawker. And then it was in my brain and I was, and it was just, it just lived in my brain as a deck hawker. And she was just like, she just thought for a minute and she was like, do you mean a de joker?

And I was like, I do. I mean a de joker. And does, and is, and do you need one? She, she doesn't recommend because they're not approved in the UK.

They're only approved in the US. Well, that was a roller coaster. So she recommends the back, the back blows. Yeah, sorry. Didn't mean to get onto like choking, but. There's something to be said. for like less democratisation of medical information.

Like I feel like maybe we should learn slightly less than we do from comments on Instagram. 100%. Videos is one thing, but comments on videos is quite another. It's another, is another. Well, I mean, but then I totally agree with you. And I think it's really bad as well because like the, like he said in this video, the same guy in this video, he said, it opened the mouth. and if you can see something, grab it.

And then this woman was like absolutely under no circumstances ever try and grab something out of the throat because you run the risk of then of pushing it further down. Anyway, information is conflicting and it's confusing and I wish my Instagram didn't show me these videos, but it does. I'll tell you what I can do for you. I've been on Orca Talk, as you know, for a very long time,

coming on for a year, anyway, it's evolved and I'm now in Shark Talk. And it's amazing. So I can start sending you all. sharks if you want it's that and Simone Biles top because Arlo literally loves her we watch videos of Simone Biles everybody and she just goes wow every time she does anything she just go wow I'm like tell me about a kid like this woman is amazing that's so sweet she gets it she gets it she's a little gymnast herself she understands the technique involved you should see the

somersaults we are relentless love that okay my awkward also to do the declotroses who are upstairs um I don't know if you remember before I had a baby I used to work a lot with love honey and as part of that I see where this is going we're talking negligee lube dildos

oh the lot the full works yeah I don't know if you remember I once got a box I think I talked about it on the time and anyway I got this like this sort of like weekend a set and anyway I don't know what happened to it like over the years I don't know what happens to stuff but we basically have this one chest of drawers

where all our holiday stuff goes but then kind of everything else goes too and it's no we only deal with it about twice a year before we go on holiday so it's like it's a very unfrequented chest I don't know what's in there this morning I've been running around like a hairless chicken I've been gagging it's hot and you had to do this

we've got a meeting in a minute I'm busy and they went I was like yeah do you want to just start in here and we'll get on it like well I'll come up in a minute and I came up and there's just a little pile of sexual items. Oh no. Oh no!

On the bedside table, not acknowledged. They've just been placed on the bedside table. Cock rings, you know, that sort of thing. And nothing was acknowledged. And then I sat down on the bed and then like in front of me I was like presented all these like crotchless knickers basically in like stockings. It was like, what do you want to do with these?

So I was like, ah, I'm going to have to acknowledge it. I want to die. Because there's also a little nook. I'll take your photo. Maybe we can put it on the Instagram. There's also a nook underneath the stairs where we didn't know what to do with it. And I remember what we moved in. We went, oh, I wonder what we'll do with that space.

And it's just basically ended up harboring loads of sex toys. It's a little sex toy coming up. Pretty much, yeah. Just at Arlo height, actually. Anyway, so that's there. And I know we're going to be getting onto that. So I was like, you know what? This is the elephant in the room.

I'm just going to acknowledge it. I used to work a lot in the sex space. Not necessarily. in the way that you're thinking, but it doesn't even matter. Just suffice to say, if you find sexual items, they are relics of times gone by. They can go in the bin. What I will say is, I bet these people are very, very used to, I mean, they clean out people's houses for a living.

Like, they will be used to sex stories. They, they, I bet they won't bat an eyelid. I bet they weren't even feeling awkward. I mean, a cockering is quite confronting. To pick up, then, you know, they're gloveless. It's a lot, but I just have to... Yeah, that's a lot. Yeah, no, I didn't offer any, like, plinkatory apologies

until, like, after they touched it, by which point it might have been too late. But we are, but we are now, and they're here for two more days. So... I hate that for you. Me too, with every fibre of myself. Okay, I'm going to go through my goods and my bads. Right. My good, call me Nigella, because I'm cooking.

Ever since you shared, Green Chef, ages ago, actually, it was after Tommy was born, I used your code. And honestly, it's become my favorite time of the day cooking. I mean, like... Fuck off, has it? You know, it genuinely has... Once Tommy's gone down to bed, I come downstairs, and I get my...

I get the bag out, and I do the... And I get the sheet out, and I do the cooking, and I absolutely love it. I listen to a podcast, and it's become my favourite time... It's become, like, my relaxation time. And I just never thought that would happen with cooking. And I'm...

I mean, honestly, it tastes fine, like, totally fine. And sometimes it even looks good. Like, I couldn't... I couldn't rustle it up without instructions or ingredients. I couldn't do it myself. But I'm doing it with like, I'm just, I'm so happy. Like, I just feel like I've, I can't believe I'm hearing this.

Turn such a corner with it. I know. That's amazing. Green Chef is that, the balls. Yeah, that should probably be my bad is that Alex is coming for my job because I can't eat Green Chef,

but I'm still in contract to, you know, work with them and recommend them. So the last two times we've had to do dinner. I'm like, I haven't eaten dinner in four months. Like, this, I can't,

I can't pretend. I can't lie to. to the people and pretend I'm having anything other than an occasional bagel or playing past it anyway so Alex has taken over he's taking the reins it was a good ad wasn't it it was really good ad I thought it was mesmerizing I meant to congratulate both him and you but I forgot I really I need to stress that because I got a lot of comments from people being like whoa this edit is really good like he's coming for a job and I'm like the edit is really good yeah yeah hang on step back yeah he did but he did do a good he did do a good job well done um but yeah but

I have you to thank because of your green chef code. He sent me a text saying just then he can obviously hear her saying, but how sexy were my hands, though. And I've actually deliberately resisted telling him how many DMs I got about his sexy hands. Wait, I need to go back and see his hands. I got about 100 messages from women being like, whoa, sexy hands. And I was like, I am not going to relate this information to him. But it's either in my Instagram account and I've seen them for himself,

or he just has a big head when he's. comes to his hands. No, he has nice hands. I mean, I feel weird calling him sexy. I'm sorry, I can't do that, but he has nice hands. He says, I think I should set up an Instagram account of me doing things with my hands. I'm like, no, no. But first of all, everything you do is with your hands.

No, you shouldn't. She says, no, you shouldn't. I don't even know where he is. I don't know. It's like on the present being. Oh my God, where is he? Is he just everywhere? This is everywhere.

So, my bad. Betty, no, Tommy. I was like which of my dependents Tommy very bad night course of very bad nights not much sleep Dave was like you're going on the couch tonight and want you to have a solid sleep and I was like okay I'm not going to fight you on that so I was so excited all day I looked forward to it

I was like it's going to be blissful I like I cannot wait and just to go to sleep without thinking when am I going to be ringing up oh my god how amazing like I just I couldn't believe it got on the couch literally buzzing so excited got on the couch oh wait no Literally buzzing, because this is the bad, right?

There was a vibration coming from somewhere. A vibration coming from somewhere? Could I work out whether this vibration was coming from? No. Could I let the vibration go? No. Potentially, it was in my head, and I was just a bit delirious. I don't know, but there was a vibration, and it was in a pattern, and it was a

da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da, like this. Were you having a wank? I was not having a wank. and I checked under the sofa because I was like, I can feel it in the sofa I cannot just hear it, I can also feel it not under the sofa, not under the... So I spent about an hour

and then I was like, Dave, Dave, I know you might be asleep but can you just come downstairs because I need to know if I'm going mad or not. He came down, he's like, I can't hear anything. So that was it, that was my night ruined. And now I just don't know where that came from. I just don't know where that came. I've not heard it since.

But it was there, I know it was there. I tried to take a video, but you can't hear it on the video. Oh, God, I don't know. I think you're losing it. in an endearing way it's about time yeah yeah it is about time yeah it's always the wheels are coming off aren't me yeah have you got a bad for me yeah but no i mean like it there's a recurring bad there's a daily bad i don't need to get into it you know what it is i'm not i'm not

living but i'm just i'm looking for the goods and the awkward in amongst it and actually it does help to find them because because i'm low so um but yeah i'm fine I don't know it's really hard to like acknowledge your mental it's really complicated I haven't really felt like this before I'm just so fucking low sometimes I just cry like I'm so sensitive I tell you what it is my bad actually is that DM I got last night

not that she sent it everyone's got every right to send whatever it's that I'm letting it affect me I'm giving I'm not holding onto my own power because I'm too vulnerable and that's annoying so I just need to yeah I mean it makes sense so when you're not mentally strong enough to like, to rationalise them like you are normally able to.

Yeah, it's so annoying. So I'm like, anyway, I'll go back, I'll get back to it. Just, like, literally one day at a time. We're giving you a big podcast hug. Love you. Thank you. And now, we have a guest. Oh, God. We have a good guest. We've got a good guest.

We're excited. We're excited. This, oh my God. So as we explained at the beginning of the interview, Heidi pitched herself to us. She pitched this conversation, this interview, to us. And I am so pleased she did. As we got into it, we realized we have not, we did not even scratch the surface.

You're going to be listening to this, screaming into the abyss, being like, you idiots, you didn't ask this, and how could you not acknowledge this, and you didn't talk about this? We know. We just got so excited. So, and we bawled it.

So she's coming back. We got so excited. I had to write down questions on my phone to remember them all. Like, as we were going along, I was like, ah, there's just so much to ask. She is going to come back. And if you have questions for her, hit them with us.

No, hit us with them. Because she's coming back and we're excited already. So we're going to shut up now and let you enjoy it. Yeah. Because you deserve to. Here's Heidi. Hi, Heidi. Hello.

How are you guys? Oh, my God, good. I'm not used to being asked to questions. Because I make my turn to talk. I'm good. How are you? I'm brilliant. Very smuggy outside.

It's gross. Don't get Alex started about the weather. I can't. I haven't got it in me. She's already talked to me for so long. What I'm trying to find is the pitch that you sent us to introduce you because I, when I read it, when we read it, we got so excited. Yeah. We love it when people pitch us episodes anyway because it's like, I mean, you do our job for us.

It's so great. But yeah, you suggested an episode called Life as a Stripper and we were just like, yes. that sounds like a good episode we'll take that thank you um so that would be amazing to hear about like well i guess they what you wanted to do is why you wanted to do this episode what you wanted what you wanted to yeah share yeah what was the plan so at the moment like my podcast sexenomic it's all about kind of uncovering um stuff around the sexual economy and part of that is kind of showing what life is like, especially in my sector where I'm a stripper. I feel comfortable saying strippers. Some people like to call themselves just dancers and stuff, but just for intents of

purposes. I call myself a stripper and just like removing stigma and, you know, the preconceptions that people have about that. Yeah. It's such like, it's only just occurred to me with sex anomics. It's like, oh, sex and economics. I love it. Yeah, it's great. But it's so, interesting to hear it because I feel like it's something that we're hearing more and more and we kind of hear it in the in-cell community where you hear about women talking about like what was it women's market value like and it's kind of always been this unspoken thing that there is a value to sex and sexuality and it's so interesting that on that I feel that the conversation is so big at the moment on one side you've got it really empowered where you have sex workers

and women in that space and men in that space who are talking about the empowerment and the right to like capitalise on your sexuality yeah and on the other side of it you've then got it you've got it being weaponised as it always has been but I feel like it was kind of more silently weaponised like sort of such a shaming and that kind of behaviour was perhaps more of like a societal quiet shaming whereas there's kind of more of this I'm actually having loads of word about but I just think it's such an interesting time where there's there is a much more spoken about on both sides the kind of value of sexuality and the weaponising and the weaponising of it and the empowerment? Well, I think the point there you made that there's value. And a lot of my

work, whether I'm doing bits of writing or podcasts, is basically uncovering what that value means. The way I look at it is it's a power. And for me, when I started dancing, like sexy is like a weird word that you're introduced to when you're younger, like, you know, you kind of evolve into that in your teenage years. And then actually, when I just kind of took a whim and I started doing this dancing kind of thing, I was like, oh, I can take that decentralized it from like the archetypal, um, relationship thing or you're trying to sexually attract someone and profit off it. Because as crude as it sounds like men and women, women, as we said, are biologically different, but also they have immense different values.

I think in terms of what they have, and for some reason, women are deemed as more sexually alluring in society. Now, whether we kind of manifested that and we pushed that on women, that's a different discussion. But for some reason, I think somewhere down the line, men started capitalizing, whether it's in porn models of women's sexuality. Only fans is kind of revolutionary because they're almost taking back their own sexual IP and for me the idea of actually

why am I being criticised for capitalising off my labour and maybe off my looks and it's kind of like in a way for me it was no different to a man working on a building site women can work in a building site

but more likely men usually are stronger so they will work in a building site more than a woman will, but a woman will probably do more well in modelling or do more well in social care or teaching because they have a different kind of a lure, a different kind of almost like draw societely and... I wonder how much of that is the roles that we're generally better suited to or that we're just societally, you know, that women end up being shoehorned more into caring roles and teaching roles and nurturing roles and sexual they're also sexualized whereas men ended up in the more

laborious ones like I wonder how much of it is constructed yeah it's really interesting well the thing is like you are unfortunately it's a bit depressing way to start the podcast you will be sexualized from being like a young girl yeah who are you to say I can't capitalize off that when I'm on age well that's it it's like yeah you said before you know it starts with porn you know you know since porn or whatever it's like this has been going on since the dawner forever you know women have been sexualized since forever and they've been abused and judged and ostracized and whatever else for their sexuality. It's like the thing that they've had, that men have put on them since forever. Well, I think the in-cell thing you kind of highlighted earlier is maybe almost a thing

of annoyance that women have actually recognized their value. 100%. Taken that away, applied it to their own lives and said, if I need you or have you. But right now I don't need you. Yeah. It takes for the man's power. It's so in power. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't need you to sexualize me. I can sexualize myself. It's like, well, wait, what? But I think like someone finding you sexy is so boring now doing this job. I'm like, okay, if you find me attractive or vice versa, whatever. Like, I think the mental thing in terms of romantic attraction is more like, oh, you're genuinely a nice person or, you know, you make me smile.

That's very soft. But it does feel like you've kind of like separated sexuality. from, I guess, from romance and that. But I guess that's kind of, you've got to do it with a job. I've become a man. Yeah. Love that. Yeah, but I guess that's, I guess that's something that you have to do, right?

In your line of work. Not everyone has to, obviously, like, have this mentality and stuff. But you do have to do it in this line of work. However, I think it's definitely set me well in terms of just realizing the different dichotomies when you're maybe dating. or especially like casual dating is such a thing now i don't casually date if i date someone i'm dating someone with the intention of the rest of my life um and like people might find that shocking but actually a lot of dancers are like that um and also it's to say that dancing stripping

internationally is very different there's different rules in different countries there's different rules in this country about different boroughs and stuff so yeah can we get into that into that like I've got so many questions I'm not a legal expert that's okay we do not we do not legally or fact check anything we talk about this podcast I want to talk about how you got into it

and kind of like what it's like but what you're just saying there about the different rules and stuff is really interesting what are the rules in the UK so maybe let's start with what you guys have you been to a strip club or I went to spearment rhino Does that count?

Yes, it's closed now, though. Oh, well, yes, that's how long ago. I went, like, probably 10, 12 years ago, probably. There's a party there that I went to, but otherwise, no. That's fun. It was so fun. I met Bandova, and it was wild. It was really fun.

Wow. Yeah, I met, like, yeah, porn royalty. And it was really, really, really, really fun. And I didn't even mean to go. It was a plus, like, I met, we met these guys from the pub. It was years ago before I got Alex, obviously. And we met these guys in the pub And they were like

We're going to this party Do you want to come And it was me and my friend Who works an impressive job His name I won't bring up Because she gets annoyed When I do When I bring up

And her past Because now she's a grown up Yeah we were like Woohoo Welcome It was a while It was so fun But that was only time

I'm over the So I don't think we're the experts on No I don't think I've ever been To a strip club Should we rectify that What you're doing this afternoon I mean I've got babies to like after

But I could put it on hold for a couple of hours. I think like the best way to like realize what one is like is the kind of address like the preconceptions. So like we can throw them out there if you want like it's like disguised as a brothel or it's basically like you're overworked and they take all your money. Yeah. Everyone's horrible. The manager's an asshole. You're constantly told what to eat what not to eat like some of those stuff yeah it's true in certain clubs but i personally have worked in that many clubs that are like that yeah i guess another one like preconception that would have would be that there are very clear boundaries between like the get the customers

and the dancers yeah so the like i presume this is like the protection and like the touch rules yeah so in central london i don't know too much about outside central london but in central london you are not allowed to under any circumstances touch the dancer when they're naked as well or when they're clothed even like if they're dancing for you under arm it's not allowed so definitely not graphically but the security will throw you out because the club often get fine if they're seen enticing this kind of stuff and it's not like 200 pounds it's probably depending on the size of the club I've heard in the ballpark of 20 5,000 pounds.

Whoa. Wow. And is that because the presumption is that they are seen to being, like, a less eliciting or soliciting sex? Some kind of, yeah. Yeah. The dancer can get a fine. The customer doesn't get a fine, but they get kicked out or kind of roughed up by

security if they're being too much. The clubs I've always worked in, I've felt safe with security. So what will happen is be a customer. You'll say, hey, babe, do you're in a dance. Da-da-da-da-da. And then you'll kind of. either go into a VIP room or you'll dance on the floor some clubs will have like half nude and then you'll have full nude and then basically get the money da da da and there'll be a camera in

every room so while security might not be in the room with you because that's a bit jarring having a guy behind you like sorry you thinking that song it's like you and me and me and you and your friend Steve. I would not be helpful for the sexual energy of the night. I don't think singing that song. If anything happens, then obviously some clips have a panic room, but the security come in and throw them out and stuff. But I always carry around a whip.

So like if they're too much, I'm like, oh, fun. I know, I know. But you have to have something interesting about you, I suppose. I love that. Should I? Should we? Just in general life. that's so like encouraging that you feel so safe within the job because you're right

like the expectation is that it's not safe you know every trope I guess you hear about this about stripping is I guess it's like I guess it's like the words are so unflattering for it but it safety definitely does not feature highly in people's misconceptions I suppose well I'd been a ballast answer before as well and I've done it for a small amount of time and whilst there's like more of a actually no i think like a dancer like a pole dancer shripper and a blessed dancer do the same job but they just have different performances the only difference with the belest dancer is that they've got nipple tassels on and that's the only difference it is amazing that the power of the nipple in in how people no but in in how people

judge a woman yeah it's amazing how decorum and modesty is kind of put much more on women, oh, it's burlesque, it's like classier and burlesque is kind of, it's art and it's sort of, and then literally like the tiny, tiny little bit of skin starts showing and it's like, now, now it's bad. Yeah, it's almost like a horarchy. Because as well, I think I'm guilty of it. When I started dancing, like, you will meet very precarious characters, whether you work with them or customers. And often you'll meet girls who've dabbled in, well, Girls who are like, I'm a dancer and I'm only a dancer and this is all that I do. And I'm very much being like that.

Or you'll meet girls who've done maybe different levels of sex work. And you kind of go, well, I'm not like you. But actually you learn that, well, you're actually being a bit of an asshole. Because you don't know that person. You don't know what led them to that path. I might never have done that. But, you know, one day you might be in the same position of them as them. you're just as lucky not to have been in the position as them and also like they might just

enjoy it yeah we don't give a lot of space to that that element of the conversation yeah it's always the like she must really need this like poor woman she excuse it away yeah rather than it's like no she chose it choice yeah I know it's just like a bit crazy at how we look at things even like if you see someone who marries for wealth we're never going to call them a prostitute but like essentially if you're marrying some i shouldn't really say prostitute full service sex worker um but if you marry for money and it's just a purely transactional thing where you're going to pay my bills and i'm just going to you know play the role as a trophy wife what is that but yet someone does it with their chest open and proud and they're the bad person yeah we're all

in the same level and the man is never the man's never judged for it well no no no one should be judged for it as long as it's safe and consensual and there's no like even when it's not safe and conceptual the man still isn't really judged for it that's a really depressing thing in the in the context of marriage it's not in the context of the of like sort of the stripping industry but more just sort of like you know if you got like super gross old men marrying super vulnerable young women they're like oh oh there's a king get it buddy yeah well like as well we have a lot of women coming into the strip club i mean you've been in haven't you yeah so it's not just men i'd say like if i was to do a pie chart three quarters are men and then mostly that other quarter are couples and then

like women there too so never really know how did you get into it how did this all come about for you well i had a corporate job that was doing just almost as a break my degree was like in design so I stopped that because I just wasn't enjoying where I am and I went into this kind of corporate recruitment role wasn't for me I hated it it was just the idea of you're like plugging away crunching numbers at your computer and like you were just a clog in the machine and you're often told systematically what to do and like this is what we're going to do this is what we need you to do I think that's called a job but maybe I'm not very good at them um but even if you suggested something uh they would kind of be like no

this is what we're doing and i hated the pretense of oh we're going to bring in graduates for like this fresh energy but actually you're just going to pay us really poorly maybe give us some booze on friday or whatever so i got fired from that job first time i can't think why well like it just wasn't for me yeah and i often think what if I never went to that job, and I just said the job before, would I be here? But it was almost like a baptism of fire. Like, it just launched me into this different world. And then I'd always have this thought, and I don't think I'm alone of,

what if I just go and, like, do an audition? What's the worst thing they could say to me? Like, no. So I went and did an audition, and shockingly, I got the job, and I was like, oh. For what? What was the audition for? Dancer. For a dancer, right.

In central London. Okay. And I started that night. What? Oh, my God. That's so. Cool. What does the audition entail?

And had you ever danced before at all? I did a little bit of belask. Okay, okay. But I'd never gone nude or anything. The audition, you said, yeah. So you basically, they put a song on. Yeah. Do you choose the song?

Sometimes. But for the audition? I've had Cotton Eye Joe. Oh, no. But then I've had some, like, nice Lana Del Rey. or something so you don't know okay um they had like a pot my joe sorry pot my joe how do you even dance to that you can dance to anything if you're feeling it yeah you literally walk through a door go around a pole i don't think they're expecting much off me because they know it's your first time

doing the dancing and the pole wasn't in the center of the station so you couldn't really kick your legs out. So I just kind of moved around, did my thing. And then basically you just need to take your top off on stage. Most places don't ask you to take everything off on stage because there's no financial incentive for you to do that. And on my first night, I got a tip on stage in my audition. So I was like, this is good. Sounds like I'm doing well. And then I started that night. Who tipped you in the audition? A customer. Oh, so you auditioned in full room. Well, there's not many customers at the beginning of the night.

Get you, sorry. All the girls are there watching you and that's intimidating. I can imagine. Like all these women like, oh, you're here to like take the money or like, oh, you look like me. So you're going to like capitalise on my market. But I don't see it that way. Okay, I've got so much. So many questions.

Taking off your top in front of people. people, how is that? It's fine. I've got great tits. Love that. I don't know if I came. That suddenly feels very personal. No, no, no, no. No, no. Do you do semi-nude or nude, if you don't mind doing us, dancing? I've done all of that, but in different clubs, different amounts based off whatever. some people will in one club say okay well 30 pounds for a topless 60 pounds for full dance

but if you're going to a VIP it will be fully nude but in a VIP you'll charge per hour or half an hour right but the most you'll do in that is basically you'll have a little chat some wine and then you'll do a dance for one song and then you'll chat some more and you'll have some wine do you drink when you're doing it no sober um I've been drunk two times in my 2.3 years of doing this job yeah yeah and that's only because I felt inclined because I made a certain amount of money so okay um okay about the money yes yeah this my first one is a very practical question we were in a cashless society no we're not and we not no I mean every restaurant I go into they say don't take cash don't take cash how does that work those are

stronts than our strip clubs so you still cash think about the demographic of who goes to a strip club like it's nigels richard steves if he's a builder he's got cash if he works like in a white collar finance firm he's probably going to get cash out before he comes there because he knows how it works and you can also pay on card but you're always incentivised to take the cash because obviously they take commission off the card um interesting And on top of that, you'll pay a house fee usually, which is like renting out a studio, renting out the floor. And that's a big debate amongst dancers of how much is fair that you take off our commission

because you are letting us dance at your venue, but also like, you're not the dancer. You're not the person putting yourself out there. So you're not paid by the venue? No. I'm a freelancer. Oh, wow. I presume that the venue pay the, God, I'm so surprised. I presume the venue pay you

and what you make up in tips is yours because you're like providing them a service, right? You eat what you catch, you know? So basically, if I'm going into a shift, I'll go in, pay my house fee. That could be anywhere from 30 to 60 pounds. So you're paying to be there. Yeah.

Do you guys have a union? Because that doesn't feel very fair. Not at all. We do have a union. and that conversation is being had at the moment. But then again, like if you're making what three grand in a week do you care about paying £60 at the beginning of the night? No, it's just the principle, though, right?

It does feel like the principle. It feels like you're not got a lot of job security. I will say that, like, dancing is not necessary. Like, it has got its problems. As much as I'm going to come on here and say, well, you shouldn't judge me, vice versa. There are problems and there are basically, problems about the finances and how that gets distributed being paid late being you know

and also strip clubs that poses strip clubs and are something more like i did actually work at one club in central london and i left before the media picked up on what they were doing and they were putting stuff in customers drinks wow yeah and i'd done quite well and i'd not really seen anything with my own eyes. I'd heard things, but I was like, I've not seen anything. And then basically, the house mum at the end of the night, she kind of cashes out and she gives you all the money and you go home. And she's like, you're doing really well here. And I was like, thank you. And at the time, what, I'm 23. So she thinks I'm young, naive, impressionable. And she's like, so have you had a look around? And I said, no, not really. She's like,

when are you going to start doing what the other girls are doing? And I was like, I've heard about the drink thing. Like, that's not true, right? And she was like, no, when are you going to start doing what the other girl's doing? And then I looked around the next night and it was like, not just dancing. Oh, wow. It wasn't like fully, fully like, you know, full service. But also it was like not just dancing.

The no touching rule was being breached. Yeah. So I like grabbed my shit and got out of there. God, the club is liable for a lot. They've been, like, taken to task about that now. Yeah, have they? Yeah, she's not allowed on the premises. And this was a woman who was in charge.

Wow. She used to be a dancer herself. That happens, though. Jolene Maxwell, you know what I mean? Yeah. It's weird, isn't it? Wow, so she was, well, she was literally encouraging it. She was telling you to do it.

Well, I went to another club that was perfectly lovely after, and an older girl there, she'd worked with her before. And she wasn't surprised. She was like, yeah. when she used to work, like, in the 90s at this other club that I used to work at, she used to give blow jobs in the car park. Wow. So, my gosh.

Small industry then, if you're kind of, you know, like. Yeah. I have zero tolerance for girls as well, you know, who want to, like, do more than dance in stroke clubs because that's not fair. I come here to dance and nothing more. And if you're doing that in the corner, I have to almost speak to my customer of why they're not getting that. I see it changed.

Because I think that's quite interesting because it's like, obviously, it's not, you don't imagine that there'd sort of be any stipulations for where judgment or where rules are in terms of like the sort of capitalisation on the sexuality. You imagine like, because obviously within that you want to empower sex workers of all kinds and like those who are who work maybe in like more traditional like full service. Full service. I don't even like the term sex work personally. I'm like, I've discussed this with mine. friends and like I feel that people have used that obviously the way it should be used just

as a colloquial term to describe a group of people I feel like some people they do a bit of webcam and they're like I'm a sex work of like shock value and I'm like I've never had sex for my work so am I a sex work I don't feel like that that's not to criticize people who do have sex for their work but I haven't and I'm sure people who you know, maybe work in sending feet pictures. They've not had sex for their work or, you know, people on camp, they might have, they might not have. So I don't know.

I understand it as a term to address a group of people, but I actually find it a little bit jarring and almost othering because then you're like, it's really divisive. Like you're a sex worker. Yeah. But, like, you're not a sex worker if you sleep with your boss to get a promotion, or are you? Oh, I see. Yeah, it's like, where do we draw the lines on the monetization of sex?

That's interesting. Yeah, but it's also interesting that, like, that kind of the women who are performing sex acts, which I really don't like how I just said that. So what do I mean to say instead? sex sex are fine no i think i was the way i said it i i felt i sounded old um but i think yeah like it's it's interesting that that's that's not part that's that's against the code like that's kind of i have seen girls being fired on the spot for even just like sitting on a customer's lap with their clothes on and is it because it risks the company getting a fine

or is it because it changes the game and the dynamic and it sort of uneven to the playing field? Well, that's the question of human nature is to protect themselves first. You know, everyone is there to protect themselves first. But by consequence, it's obviously to, like, protect the girl or whoever's dancing. I've always thought, like, male strippers, that's interesting

because women, like, grab them. Not that I've been in one club, but when you see it on Magic Mike. Well, we went to Magic Mike, and we interviewed a Magic Might dancer on the pod. And that, and they, it's interesting because they put your hands on them when they do the dances. So they're quite welcoming to it.

But they also, we interviewed Jake Bruea, who's a dancer. And he said that their security really hot on it. And like, he said generally the customers are really respectful. And it's when they take it too far, often security don't need to get involved. The dancer himself can just be like, that's inappropriate. And normally the women go, oh, God, sorry. And it's like, I don't know, I just got swept up in it. So it doesn't, it's not so pervasive or so, like, kind of, I guess it's the power imbalance

that always will make women more vulnerable to. It goes back to that thing, like, I'm not like, I'm not like a small woman, but like I'm not going to like be able to hold my own against like a six foot like guy who I'm dancing with. So that's why we have security, you know. I've actually liked, well, some of the girls who I used to work with who were like bodybuilders and like maybe they could hold their own, but like not everyone can. Also shouldn't have to.

You should be safe at work. Yeah. But she was probably better than security. I think that's probably the logic with the magic mic dancers. It's just like generally speaking, the threat isn't very threatening. It's not nice and it's still, you can still be sexualized and it's still. But in terms of like physicality, you might not be in such danger. But then again, you do need a second pair of eyes

because whilst you're doing the dance, you're not seeing everything in the room. No. You know, security, do that for all kinds of things, for dancing, whether they're protecting someone like a private client, they're there to be a second pair of eyes that you can't see. So, you know. How many nights do you do a week?

Sometimes two, sometimes five. Depends if I've got a holiday or Christmas coming up. That sounds exhausting. Two days a week is not exhausting. five, sorry, five sounds like a lot. Yeah, two is just like the weekend. Yeah. Five is exhausting, but often it's rewarding in terms of like you can take the next week off.

But I also like enjoy my job sometimes. Like I sit down, I speak to people and you kind of interview them and learn to understand them. And that's why my podcast happened because the amounts of things people felt comfortable to tell a Dan or a stripper that they would never tell their family or their friends or what they're going through. And I often, if I take myself out of my dancing shoes, my platform, my platform heels and like just look at it as a 25 year old woman, I'm like, men actually have a serious problem with being able to express themselves. If they feel they have to come to me, a dance who doesn't know them and express their problems,

which is really flattering and nice, that means that they can't open up to their family or their friends. But it's always not that heavy. Well, it's not always that heavy. Sometimes, you know, they're just there for a good time. Can I ask about the Cleontel? Because, again, this is where I'll have my preconceptions, my misconceptions, and I think you assume that it's like,

if we do the assumption thing again, which I'm really scared to do it on my side Because I don't want to say... Give me your most problematic assumptions. Guys, okay, I say this with love. Okay, before I say... You can't offend me. It's impossible.

I'm not worried actually about offending you. I'm more worried about... I don't want to... Actually, I don't want to undermine the connection that these men are forging with you. And I don't want to undermine the relationship that you form with them. So that's what I'm scared to do. But you imagine them, a lot of them to be unfaithful to their partners. A better way to summarize what you're saying, like the surface.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. See, I imagine that oftentimes they're unfaithful and that they're sort of escaping their families and their wives and that they're spending families money in the strip clubs. And I don't know where I've got that from except that it's there. And that's about it. I don't have an empowered view of other men going.

Do you know what I mean? Like I can see stag party in my head. I'm like, stag parties go and that's it. stag parties and then these specific men who are choosing on their wives. Yeah. So like the dances are so if your like your partner went to a strip club, I would not worry about the woman. She just wants her money and she just wants to fuck off.

Yeah. I agree. She just sees it like shooting fish in a barrel. Yeah. But the man, that is a criticism that does come towards, I suppose, anyone who works in any kind of erotic job like oh you're you're you know driving families apart and this no no you would the man coming is the one who's ruining his family wouldn't be the woman yeah yeah well yes and no that's like more of the line of are we allowed to find people sexy in

our relationships or marriage i find people sexy when i'm in a relationship with someone but doesn't mean i want to go and act upon that yeah you know would you wrong your partner watch porn consecutively or would you mind them going with their mates at the strip club

and maybe just having a dance and be like oh that was okay and then going home you know neither but sometimes like often like there are men

who like no I do not want a lap dance no thank you and they'll give you like maybe 20 pounds like I don't want a lap dance thank you like I'm in a relationship.

But they just come to watch or do they come with their mates? They're with their mates and they've been dragged in. Okay. Yeah. But also like, you know, we all do find people attractive and like where are the lines of being realistic

and where are the lines of crossing the boundaries? You know? Like I've realized as well when I go into relationships, I have opened myself up to a certain level of criticism and things people have to be okay with. So like half of the time like you just think the customer is a nice, person. They're just here for a dance and it's nothing more. You know, men are very visual

creatures. Then half of the other kind of segment of that, I do think like you're like a shit bag, like, you know, from what you're telling me if it's true, like you are a shitbag. There was one time when I was in a club and I think we'd been there for like four hours with this guy and he was like sharing the money with the women and something really stark that really stuck with me was he went to go and check his bank balance on his phone and on his lock screen it was like a baby swaddled sorry I don't want to oh goodness that's all right

and I was like oh is that your nephew and he's like oh no my son was just born a day or two ago I was like what are you doing here with all these like women and check your bank balance like that means you know that you're spending money that your family need like i mean this guy was okay i checked him out on lincoln you had money but he used to say he hadn't spent it all that man well that's it's like if you have a new baby all money should be on the new baby in the i'm going to say three to four days at the bed in them like as should your presence yeah i agree but also now i think

well whoever i choose to marry and have children with like I feel people really need to evaluate who are you doing that with like do you trust that person fully you know my levels of trust what I had before have changed massively I bet I bet I bet it must it must make you look at men in a in a different light well put it this way like your partner going into a strip club

if you went in with five friends I don't think you would have a problem with that as much as if you went there on a zone 100% absolutely 100% because if you go there with your mates, there's definitely not an argument, but there's the point to be made that like they are, it's a male bonding exercise. They don't know. Corporate bonding.

Talking. It's what happens. It's, you know, often people, you know, you can end up just sheeping and just go,

oh yeah, I'll come or whatever. And it's just being one of the lads. I can see how that happens. But going on your own does feel, I mean, if you're in a relationship and you are choosing to go to a strip club,

it feels. It's like a care home sometimes. because you get really old men and it's like, are you ready, Mr. Wilson for your 11 o'clock lap dance? Oh, my God. 11 a.m. or PM?

Sometimes both. Oh, my gosh. Cairn. 11th. Oh, God. See, I've got to stop feeling sorry for old men. Every time I see an old man doing anything. But often their wives died or like, you know,

she's not, she's like infirm or she, you know, vice versa. That's even worse. But sometimes, like, I think if men are like this, women are like this too, but they just probably play it in a different way. How do you imagine women play it? I've met some feral women in my life, like, not in terms of, like, lovely people, but just, you know, they love sex and they love going out and they love dating different people and, you know. I don't think the market's there. If you've got an 80-year-old man whose wife is in firm, he's going to go to a strip club and he's going to, whatever.

I do not think the market is there or there is the opportunity. maybe this is a campaign we should start. I don't think there's the opportunity there for a woman to get her kicks in the equivalent way. Well, like, a lot of couples go into strict clubs and try and recruit you for swinging. Do they? And I'm like...

Is that because they don't know where else to look? Yeah. I mean, like, because obviously you're a dancer, people will think you're a bit more... I'm going to use a horrible word, loose. Yeah. Free. Free, maybe.

But not everyone is like that. let me just refer to my phone questions number one um what you do your profession does it stop you not stop you but does it put up a barrier to bonding with other women do you find that other women are i don't know do their their heckles go up when they when you say that you're a dancer that you're a stripper great question i've only started revealing it to people and to my friends and no one has had a problem because they're my friends so that's an easy tell um It's a good question. I've not spoken to anyone who's had an avert problem. The ones I do and have got judgment off,

because like a lot of corporate teams will come into strip clubs, men and women, for like Christmas dues or whatever dues. And it is maybe more women of a certain age who had a different kind of idea of, well a version of feminism um and i understand what they're saying but also i don't know i just can't please everyone no it does feel that sexual liberation has been a huge part of third way of feminism which is we've really come of age with i think in as little as like i'm 30 i was a couple of years older um in as recent as like our childhood the word slut had no empowerment It was fully, it was used as a very derogatory term against women and we'd use it against each other and it wasn't kind.

Whereas I think now, while still not being kind, and like we talked about earlier, we are living in this kind of very polarised place where there are men being incredibly unkind and women being incredibly unkind about the sexual liberation and the women that are partaking in that. I do feel that there is more empowerment when it comes to women choosing to be single or choosing not to get married or, having sex with more people, being in different, like relationships that don't look so traditional. Like we are being much, there is a lot more like sexual liberation

as part of this feminism. And I don't know. I think it's really interesting for our generation because we, because Gen Z, I think, is so chill. They're like, oh yeah, whatever, baby. You must be Gen Z, Josh. Yeah.

Yeah, my sister's, your image is my sister. And I just, I think it's so much better at it. Whereas we've still got to like unpick the, what we grew up with misogynistic yeah i think slag these words that just a word for a stupid person to use against you because they have no vocabulary to insult you for what you think what they think you've done it's just a beating tool do you think you're a surprise to people in how the the judgments people make about women who sexualize themselves women who profit on their

sexuality because you're so articulate you're so all over what you're doing you're so aware of it and you're you treat it as a business like do you think that is um jarring for people who look at you and have a misconception have a preconception that you don't match i don't know you just can't judge people by the cover of who they are you know um weirdly i actually think when people go oh you're so well spoken for this job or oh oh you have a university degree yeah I'm like, well, actually, these women who are from Romania, Ukraine, or Brazil, they are really smart, but they just also speak three different languages and can run circles around you in their own language. But because I speak English, you're going to say, oh, you're smart,

you're clever. That's very interesting. Not the same. Those women are just as equally as smart, but they should probably just not have the same opportunity. Yeah. You know. But if all women had this mentality I think the world would crumble because I think where women are deviating and having their own sexual IP kind of family values are being lost and that's something that I'm very conscious of in terms of like conservating conserving a little bit of that like as liberal as I am I think I'm quite centrist like but I'm going to challenge you completely on that as a mother of almost two. And I think the family values upheld by this society are entirely reliant on women making so much in the way of sacrifice. And it works because they don't, we don't,

because we don't pay men to have maternity leave, we don't treat dads as equal. We put so much pressure on mothers to that, and we make childcare so astronomical that it forces many women out the workplace. So the only way that so many of us quote unquote can have a traditional family is by breaking a woman in half, like, because it's so expensive and so difficult. That part I do agree with because like if you dial it back to the 60s, the idea was that the mum would go out to work, your job would be like at home. And I actually think you should be salaried for that. I think anyone who's just stay at home mum should be salaried. And as long as we're not, as long as we're saying to women still, like, oh, you know, because there is this talk about like, like,

Like anyone who, anyone who dares to say on the internet, I'm child free by choice, for example, gets all of the conservatives, conservatives being, you know, seems to be more concerned for Americans. Yeah, exactly. You should be, you should be at home upholding traditional family values. And actually, in this climate, asking a woman to do that is stripping her of a lot of herself.

And if you want that, as high, we're like, we're in it. And it's hard, but it's amazing. But if you don't want it to feel, you have to is tragic. I think as well like now because things are so expensive you almost have to have two incomes and the woman takes on

not only birthing the child or like you know taking on that early stage of you know the mother is usually more attached to the baby at the beginning I think I can say that without getting cancelled but you know and taking on a lot of the financial responsibility

and sometimes the man feels like oh well I'm sharing this with the woman, I feel a bit emasculated. Well, if you feel amasculated, do more. Yeah, it's interesting. But then you said earlier, you know, men don't really have the outlets and they don't have...

It's a mess. But then again, I think I mentioned Candace Owens. Like, there's a lot of contradictions. She's someone who kind of... It's like very traditional values. Man, woman. My husband should go out to work and then I should raise the kids.

What is she doing? She has her own media channel. Yeah, yeah. She's hustling. Yeah. money yeah exactly so she's not singing to her own him i don't know i like as part of the female empowerment sexual empowerment the decision not to have children within that or not not create a traditional family is so important in women's because it's otherwise i feel like we're giving women

autonomy up into a point we're like yeah yeah go go sleep around your 20s do as a man does do whatever you want but ticot be home be home by 30 yeah if you could just be in the in the picket fence by them that would be good of course it's kind of really hard to navigate this as a woman yeah but the best thing you can do is just follow what you want to do i'm 25 so i don't have all the answers um nor should i no so yeah we need to stop going to such young people for the answers we always we always we always like we always like i always think mainstream media go to young people and they go all right like how are you going to fix climate change if you're so worried about it and it's like, why are you asking them for?

I know. That's dressed. What else did you have on your question list? Something else on my question is money. Are we okay to talk about like the financial side of stripping, dancing? It depends what you ask. I personally, I'm not going to disclose my own finances. No, no, don't want you to do that.

HMRC. No, no, don't want you to do that. And you don't have to answer anything. I can give you ballparks of what I know. That would be great. I think it's, yeah, I think it's really interesting. Is it a lucrative career? So to answer that question, I need to give you a history lesson.

So we'll go back to 2000 when I was in primary school. Dancers then used to make so much money because we had expenses accounts. Corporate people would go in, spend their money, and it wouldn't impact them. impact the company. I don't know if that is what led to the financial crash, but anyway. So girls, the one or two girls who I know who's still dancing now from back then, because dancers can be up to like 50 years old. Yeah.

They used to make a lot of money. I think the best I heard was like, yeah, we'd make like two grand a night consecutively, and I'd do five days a week. Wow. And people have bought houses abroad. or in this country in London. I know a girl who bought a flat in Chelsea in the 2010s from dancing.

Can you get a mortgage? Yeah. You used to be able to put it down with cash as well. But you just wouldn't say you're a dancer because some people can be stuffy about it. You'd just say I'm an entertainer. And then from probably 2010 onwards, things got a little bit less.

and then after the pandemic, it got even less. I, when I first started dancing, was in a really fortunate position where the economy was really good in the strip club and I was just having a lot of luck because you can only work with what's in the room. I've seen some people make a lot of money and I don't know if that's luck or, you know,

skill, it's probably a bit of both. I often think if you put these women in Canary Wharf, they would be making a lot of money. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I know. You have to have so many transferable skills to be a stripper. I can't put it on my CV. It's really annoying.

Why? Well, imagine I go and like work for HSBC and be like, so I have experience in customer service. Yeah. But if I'm recruiting, you've got people skills. You've got confidence. You've got get up and go. You're running a freelance business.

You're self-motivated. financial like independent like i don't know you're good with money transaction yeah you can do a backflip no slide down a poll no you've got really transferable business savvy skills like you're running a business you are your own business you're operating as a business you're subletting the space or whatever you want to however you want to call it from the club like you are operating as a sole trader at the very least or a small business at best so i i think you should put on your CV I think I should too. On my LinkedIn, I have all my skills on my, um, saxonomic LinkedIn. So, yeah, it's a bit tongue and cheek. But I don't know. In terms of money, you have to ask me a specific question.

And like, yeah. Okay. Yeah. There's lots. What questions should we ask you that you would be comfortable with? Is it enough to just work, to live in London or to operate out of London? Is it enough to work? stripper. For me, it is. To do two nights a week? I bounce between doing different ones and now I have more work doing other things with the podcast and whatnot. Okay.

It's enough for me, but also there's girls who don't make money. There's some nights you don't make money. Really? Yeah. Some nights you won't make, like, hardly any money. Yeah. So, like, I won't be offended if there's no customers inside because, like, what am I meant to do with an empty club?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I can't do anything with that. that I remember one of the hardest nights I had was the club was like rampacked and just no one wanted me and how do you cope with that well like it just happens you can't be like if I'm quite happy I make a nice living off doing this um and some nights it's just not going to be your night you you got to be comfortable with that not everyone's going to like you and that actually teaches you a really healthy lesson of like not everyone's going to like you and that's okay um but everyone literally every type of person was making money and I was like what is wrong with me

and there was this girl decorated in 50s and I was like huh I don't know this is just the environment but then the next day or so I made money so you can't take it personally it's like rejection like I have a very healthy relationship rejection now before I was have to in that job yeah but also like if someone says no it's like I'm sorry you've not got good taste like I would not be like that. I'd just be little little puddles on the floor all night, crying. Are you going to let, like, Harry tell you you're not good enough or, like, you're not going to make that I am. Yes, that's exactly what Alex is going to do.

I'm going to ask a question that you're probably not going to be able to answer. Okay. What is, like, the max you can make it at night? Or, like, the most you've ever made in one night? A few thousand. Really? That's great. I know a girl who made six in one night, and I actually saw it.

But it was on commission. So the club obviously took a little bit of that. If it was cash, you would have been laughing. Wait, so the club takes a house fee and commission. Often. I'm outraged. But if it's cash, you often get to keep it off. Is it still exploitative?

You're talking about before about the women who are coming and dancing in, you know, maybe they're not from here originally. Maybe English isn't their first language. Is it still? Because obviously, again, we haven't even touched on, which I feel like we, this is really, really remiss to mention the fact we haven't really spoken about sex trafficking at all. Part one, part two. Yeah, I genuinely think we couldn't need to do it a second part.

But with the exploitative nature, is that something that's still prevalent? So sex trafficking, as I know, is quite low in stripping because that's not where it's maximum profitability for the sex traffickers to make their money. It's more on full service stuff. That said, it still exists there. But the onus is on the clubs to do their due. and of course, like, the other dancers to, like, watch out and see if that's happening. I spoke to a manager about it, in fact, an owner, and I was like, well, how can you tell and stuff?

And he was like, I will only take girls on when they come in and they're by their self. And he's actually had to let girls go when they've, like, it's quite clear that someone's taking all their money. Because the thing about sex trafficking is I did a lot of kind of research around this with the Andrew Tate case because that's my latest episode, the interview with the lawyer representing the victims, is that sex trafficking isn't always this like pimp who's like got 12 girls and is working them. Often it's their partner. Right. It's, you know, well, often it's their partner. There's not like more. and how hard is it to decipher this relationship between

he's my boyfriend, we're sharing a bank account versus he's my boyfriend, he's taking all my money because there's times where in a relationship, you're making more money, I'm making more money, da-da-da-da. And that's really hard to differentiate, but it's very easy to tell when someone's being exploded if you see the full picture. So is it something that's discussed a lot within the industry

or not as in like things to look out for, like how to keep how to keep people safe or look out for there's no ask there's no ask angela like things on the wall right yeah but um often when you're like what i've heard from like the owners or the managers when they're getting emails of hey can i come and work here if it's a man contacting on behalf of the women no not allowed unless it's coming from the woman um because it's not in the club's interest to do that as well so i don't know i as i said there's problems and this exists everywhere i've never seen it personally with my own eyes so but also a lot of these women don't think that they're like you know don't feel sorry for them

they know what they're doing and they know how to make money and playing the like damsel in distress to men works a lot it's like oh i'm just at university trying to pay my my way and then like I don't have the hero complex they want to come in and as long as that's as long as that trope exists this idea that all women in strip clubs and that's actually a really like sort of perverse

and distressing way to look at it actually it's like the amount of men who are going in there thinking I'm going to fix these young women I can save them I'm going to be a white knight my money my dollar bills are going to make their lives better but then it's actually going back

what you're saying before about them not having it's it's a sad thing that often that is how a lot of men feel they can show up i mean you are helping me pay my rent like i won't like but sometimes like it's honest like they're there for a dance like hey would you like a dance yeah sure and it's not this whole trope you have to play up you know yeah yeah it's just yeah transactional literally i've literally finishing this with like more questions i know this has been thank you so much i'd fascinating. I think you're going to have to come back. Yeah, I've got a thousand more questions. I know. I was trying to think of any juicy stories and I was like, I'll save them for the next one. Yeah, honestly do because I think, I think maybe we should

ask for listener questions. I was just thinking that, yeah. And it's likely back again. I think it'll have thrown up a lot of questions. I really feel like we've missed a lot and I'm annoyed with how much we've missed because, yeah, so I think we need to do this again, please. Okay. Can you come back? Yes. Thank you so much. Just for you guys. Thank you so much. Thank you, Hyde. And we're going to put the link to your podcast, Sex Anormic, in the show notes. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Should I delete that is part of the ACAS creator network.