Should I Delete That? - LIVE with Candice Brathwaite!

Episode Date: March 14, 2022

This week, Alex and Em interviewed Candice Brathwaite for their first ever live episode! The recording took place on International Women's Day at George's FENOMENAL festival, a day dedicated to celebrating and redefining femininity. Candice talks about childbirth and how, as a black woman, her concerns were dismissed and she was almost fatally mistreated, an all too common experience that is explored further in her first book I Am Not Your Baby Mother (link below). The girls also explore And Just Like That, the pitfalls of comparison and, of course, Candice's incredible style...You can find Candice's books below:Sista SisterI Am Not Your Baby MotherAnd you can follow her on Instagram @candicebrathwaiteShow timestamps:Good, Bad & Awkward - 00:02:21Interview with Candice Brathwaite - 00:20:34Is It Just Me? - 01:01:04Follow us on Instagram @shouldideletethatEmail us at [e-mail] by George at Asda, check out their latest collection at george.comProduced & edited by Daisy GrantMusic by Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This episode is sponsored by George at Asda, who hosted an incredible event called Phenomenal, and they've recently launched their phenomenal campaign, which celebrates femininity, and it's breaking the stereotype of what it means to be feminine and redefining it for ourselves. On the day of the festival, we were both wearing George at Asda, and I think we looked pretty cool, actually very cool. Really cool. I felt good. Yeah, me too. That dress got so many compliments.

Same. I felt phenomenal. I see what you did. I am my dad. George really does have some amazing pieces, like really good, and I had a hard time choosing what I was going to wear on the day. And what I love about the website as well is the diversity of the models who display the clothes because actually, like, it's really not that common.

No, they have different heights. Like, they have different, like, when we were shopping, you can see, like, the dresses on a small, like, petite person and then somebody who's taller and curvier. And it's like, this is so helpful. Even to get a gauge of, like, how long the dress is. going to be for example. Totally. Love it. And size inclusive. So if you'd like to check out any of their clothing, you can go online at george.com. Oh my god. Why did I post that? Ah, I didn't

know what to do. Should I delete that? Yeah, you should definitely delete that. Hello everybody and welcome back to the Should I Delete that podcast. It feels like it's been a while it has but you did have COVID we did it on Zoom we had the special International Women's Day episode and then this episode this interview we did live so welcome to our first ever live podcast oh my god yeah this bit isn't no this bit isn't no one wants this in front of all the audiences it takes way too much editing uh how are you really good I'm excited to be here I know me too I'm a bit giddy I think I look quite in the words of uh yeah you do

Is that Kira Knightley? Yeah, you know, when she looked at the wedding, but I looked myself today and I nearly said it and then I was like, I'm a twat. That was actually quite good impression, do you? Thank you. Hang on. I look quite pretty. You did the mouth as well.

Yeah, thanks. They call it method acting in the biz. Yeah, it does. I tell you what, I'm just going to kick us off. Go on. It's the good, the bad, the awkward, right? The good. The bad.

And the awkward. I'm not having a bad this week because this March I've decided that I'm thriving Okay I've said I mean I've banged on enough about it on Instagram But February was so terrible And I realised like listening back to the last episode

That we did with The Good, the Bad and New Orchard With Dr Josh I was just like moaning the whole time I was like absolutely not I'm sick of my own shit I'm up, I'm out I'm smiling, I'm thriving So no back like

Okay good And my rule is I was explaining it to Georgie the day my rule is it's not that bad things can't happen in March because I can't control what's happening in the world what it is is mindset month so I'm just choosing to have a good mindset and I'm absolutely loving it.

I like that you can't control if bad things happen but you can control your reaction to them yeah and I'm just really choosing to be really to a well yeah theoretically but I'm just choosing to be really happy I like that honestly I'm doing so good I really like that so I just don't have a bad this week yeah it was quite a it was quite a negative intro to the book.

It was terrible. Do you think we lost listeners? Yeah, everyone's like, Christ. These two absolute t-bitches. I found out my mum actually listens to the episodes now, so I feel like I need to stop saying the C-word and the T-word. What's the T-word? Twat.

T-word. Sorry, Mrs. Light. My mum listens to, but she's the one that taught me all the bad words, so I think we're cool. yeah um so so good your goods your bads what's up so do you know what actually my bad isn't really a bad this week it's more of an awkward so that's quite so we're really keeping it like this week yeah cool oh my god great okay

hopefully we can get those listeners back sorry we depressed you for a while um so my good okay i have two goods i'm really sorry i love it go come on give me the good give me the goods i have two goods because i can't uh i can't i can't narrow it down that's fine just give them to me So my first good was that we did our first ever live show. Woo! And we did a whole day. And we didn't fuck it up. And we didn't fuck it up.

And we did, it was this really cool festival in central London. And there were so many amazing people there, mostly women, to be fair. And it was just absolutely brilliant. We interviewed Candice Brathway, which you're going to hear in this episode. And we interviewed Brianne Gordon as well. You'll hear that next week. Sorry, you'll hear next week. And did we not have a blast?

We had a, it was so fun. Do you know what? Best day. I wasn't even nervous, were you? Well, I was a bit nervous at the beginning because when you were in the House of Commons being a fucking baller, I had to introduce the day on my own. And I kept being like, because our management were there and I kept laughing and they're like, guys, I really don't want to do this. And they're all like, ha ha ha ha ha. And I was like, no, I really don't want to do this.

And I was like, ha ha ha. I'm like, no one's getting the severity of this. I really don't want to do it. And then I just had to get up on my own and I was like, hello. I feel bad for you. I didn't realize that you were going to have to do that. I know.

I felt really, really guilty. What did I say? Who knows? Literally, I have no idea. Could have been anything. And then actually, then when we went on to intro, we had to like intro the second half of the day and we were so terrible.

I feel like we're in our element when we're interviewing, aren't we? And we're like, very focused. It was so bad. The second one, you did with me, I think might have been worse than the one I took on my own. It was really bad. It wasn't good. No, it wasn't good. We've got some work to do, some kinks to work out. But, lull, we had a great time and we want to do more live shows now. Oh, we've got 100%. If people want to come. No, no, no, whether or not people want to do the live shows. 100%. So, yeah, that was a really good good. It was a really good good.

But I think your bad also happened that day. Or was that you're awkward? Yeah, so my bad also happened that Right, so what's your good? And then I'll do my other good after. My good is that I helped a man propose. This was so cool. To his girlfriend. What the fuck? It was so cool.

So I do my thing on Fridays, my Feel Good Fridays, and I've done it for like nearly two, over two years. Anyway, I've done it for ages. And people send in their good news on Fridays, and we celebrate and I just dance and it's like a hoot. Anyway, one girl sent in her Feel Good Friday saying, my best friend is getting proposed to you tomorrow, and she's got no idea.

And I was like, oh my God. So I did, like, I did the reaction to Dirty Little Secret. You know, like, I'll keep you my Dirty Little Secret, whatever, no, it's not a dirty secret, stunning. But anyway, and I was all gassed up. And then I got a message from the girl being like, oh, my God, thank you so much for sharing mine. This is nuts. But can I put you in touch with the guy?

And I was like, fuck yes. And then he sent me a message and was like, hey. Oh, my God. Do you want to be involved? And I was like, yes. So then he sent me, he was proposing with the most adorable video. He'd sung a song when they first got together all these years ago about loving her and he'd written this for her and he got all the family members, all her family members to hold up

the lyrics on pieces of paper and like all for different lines and all of them dancing and whatever. So basically everybody was proposing to her and he asked me at 10.30 to send her the video. So I sent her a message at like 10 something. I just as well she followed me would have and awkward. She'd be like, who the fuck is this? But, yeah, so I sent her the video being like, with a script from him, saying, hope you have a lovely pamper day with the girls today, but before

you go, maybe you want to watch this. And obviously she was like, what? And then, yeah, and then I got a video from her later and him, and they're all engaged and it was so happy. I was like, this is the best day of my life. How fun. That is really cool. Thank God, she said yes. Thank God. She said yes.

And now I'm currently undergoing my ordainership. so I can... Oh, Christ. Marry them. Knowing you as well, I think you'd probably be serious, aren't you? 100%. I did Google it.

But they haven't asked, which is a bit gutting, but I'm not ruling enough. I'd say let them come to you. Yeah, no, I know, yeah. I feel like that's what God would want. Rather than, like, sending them your newly acquired certificate. Vote with me in a dog collar. I'm ready.

But yeah, so that was unreal. That's a really good good good. Yeah, really good good good. Honestly, I can see why men do it now. Like, this has made me angry with the patriarchy than anything else. I'm like, fuck, they get, like this is a hoot. Proposing is a hoot. It's a hoot to get in on this.

Yeah, I know, it would be so fun, wouldn't it? Okay, dokey. Your second good? More good, more good, just keep giving me these goods. It's so great. My second good was that I went to Parliament. I was in Parliament. I still haven't got the lingo down, like the terminology.

I was in Parliament, I was in House of Commons. Need to work it out. But, yeah, I was on a committee about body image. I was on a panel with two other experts by experience, which is a nice way of saying non-expert. I'd like to use. Per bike food. Yeah, I might put it in my bio.

100%. Yeah. Oh, my God, so good. And it was really cool. Like, I was, because when they asked me, I thought I wasn't going to be able to do it because of these live podcast shows. and I was supposed to be going into Parliament in person, but luckily I was able to appear via Zoom

and I, it was, it just felt like it was really cool because I feel like this stuff I've been shouting about for, you know, it was all about body image and I've been like shouting about it for such a long time. And with sort of little grasp on what impact I've actually made, you know, it's hard to, I can't quantify that, I can't see it. Exactly, I just don't know. And this felt like, wow, I've got a,

an actual opportunity to be heard by people in power and positions of authority that can actually really do something at like a, you know, a really high level. So it felt cool. I absolutely shout myself. I was so nervous. Like, I could, I couldn't, I can breathe before I went on and I spoke so fast. But I think I got everything, I think I said everything that I wanted to say. And yeah, that's, that's pretty good. Yeah, I think it's a little career highlight, I think. Yeah. How are you? Also, the footage is really funny. because everybody else is in there. And then there's just like your ginormous head.

Literally. Because they've zoomed you in. And it's just like, Alphear. I know. And on the video, everyone else is really low quality. But because I was on Zoom, it's like, so sharp. So, so sharp quality. It's just my big face on your screen.

So, so yeah, that was really cool. Proud of you. My bad does, yeah, tail off from that. So I, I literally, we, I wrapped up House of Commons and I had 10 minutes to get. get on stage with you so I did a quick story being like I took it like me at my laptop and like I wasn't looking and I was all serious and I said serious face because I'm at the house of commons but I apparently also correct likes to change commons to condoms so I put house of condoms and I

just didn't realize and I put it up and then literally as we were going out she's an expert by experience ladies and gentlemen literally as we were going out I was you just looked at me with the most panic look in the world and you were like yeah I think I've just written house of condoms yeah my sister was like Al in capitals which always frightens me you wrote condoms in capitals and I was like shit and then we were on stage so I was like like shouting to people like can I just go and change it please um so yeah that was quite good that was definitely my awkward yeah it's not my bad it was my awkward because it was awkward yeah and I feel like I might not be invited back to the house of condoms

100% you're not allowed back. Okay, goods, goods, goods. Oh, more good? Yeah, more good. Your second good? Well, I'm just going to, yeah, I've got so many goods. Honestly, I was plucking the mouth of the sky right now. Mine's like not, it's thriving.

A second good, I went for, I ran, I ran a 5K this morning. Yes, you did. Fuck yes. Well done. I went for a run on, and actually my bad would have been this, because I went for a run the other day. Last Thursday, and I got like the, well, I sort of pushed quite hard at the surgeons for the All Clear. I was like, please, I'm losing my mind.

Anyway, they were like, okay, anyway, so I went for a run, and it was a fucking shit show, because I think I forgot that I had COVID, and also, like, I massively underestimated it. So I went for a run, and I was like, what is happening? But my lungs, like, I couldn't run. Like, I just could not run. And I got to the end of my road, and I was like, honestly, it wasn't good. And I was like, fuck me. I've got a long way to go. Because in my head, I was hoping to do a couple of marathons this year, and I've been really looking forward to getting back to it.

And then I went for that run, and I was like, this is devastating. So it was really sad. Anyway, and then today, and then I went to the gym a couple of times and I really, I did a post about it on Instagram, but I'm not going to let this get me down because I cannot control it. This is so beyond my control. Like I've had a terrible time and that happens and life gets in the way and being mean to myself is not going to achieve anything here. Like I have to have kindness because otherwise what changes, nothing, apart from the fact that I'll be too scared to go back out because I'm too scared of myself and I never want to be scared of myself. So I was really nice to myself and I was like, babe, this is great. Like the bottom is a fun place to be because the only way is up. Like, we are on the way. Like, this is going to be great. Like, it doesn't matter how fast you're running because you're not being chased by a bear.

Like, everything's great. And I was really like pep-talking myself. And then, yeah, so I went for my second run today. And I got, like, I got to where I got last time. And I was like, I'm alive. And then I had this really weird thing where I did this really big smile. Then I realized that I was about to pop a stitch. So I was like, oh, never mind.

Stop smiling. And then just sort of crying because I was like running. I was like, everything's so good. Yeah, and then I got home and I was just like, oh my God, love my life. So that was today. That's really good. And I'm so pleased for you because you, more than anyone, benefit dramatic, like, benefit vastly from exercise.

Like, it does wonders for you for your mental health, doesn't it? And I feel like your, yeah, it's vital for you. Yeah, like me and you have been talking about this. And like I will, maybe I'll talk about it on the internet at some point, but I realize my mental health has been very bad these last few weeks. Yeah. And I felt I've been really struggling with. feelings of like overwhelm and like fuzziness and like I just realized that all of my coping

comes from my routine I guess and exercise is such a big part of that and losing that I've been really struggling to like just maintain happiness so yeah like it feels I honestly I'm so happy that it's like it's coming back I can tell you're you're glowing thank you I'm also glowing because I sprayed myself with my glow my glow spray this morning in the eye and normally it's like a nice mist but then it goes like over my face but then I did it this morning and it was like a feck and bullet to my eyeball I was like ow um but anyway I blinked it out walked it off still thriving very glowing yeah thanks we have a joint awkward I guess just to finish this before we go into the interview we do we do have a joint awkward and I feel like this is very humbling

and embarrassing but fuck it let's tell you it's very humbling I was knocked down fair few pegs I know we're at the bottom but what have I just said about the bottom the any way is up Exactly. So we dream big with this podcast, right? And we saw on Instagram that Rebel Wilson was in England and we were like, well, shit, we love you. Let's get it. We've got to make this happen.

Yeah, so we tried some avenues to get Rebel Wilson to come back. Do not get your hopes up, good listeners. It's not happening. It's not a happy ending. Yeah, this would be in the good section. Have this had a happy ending, not the awkward one. But so we tried via a few means. So I d-end Rebel, you know, so.

chill, so cool. Yeah. Hi-ya. You don't know me, but blah, blah, blah. Gave the spiel, as you do. And then you and I were texting, but like on WhatsApp desktop, you know, so I messaged her from my computer, my Instagram, like Instagram desktop and I messaged her. Then I saw a message and I was getting, I was excited, you know what I mean? Like I was DMing Rebel Wilson. I was all over the place. Then I saw a pop-up from you notification being like, I've emailed her agent and I went to reply to you saying, OMG, look at us go. But I didn't send it to you. I also sent it to Rebel. Oh my God, look at us go. She'll be like, what the fuck? So then I had to do that thing. You know when you're sitting

by yourself and you just get like a hot. You can feel like the blood going like up to your hair line. And I was like, oh my God. I felt like a boiled egg. Like I was like, oh. My first time. I had to unsend the message. It's just so humiliating. I wish you'd seen it. That would have been brilliant as well because I had DM'd her just very shortly after you. We were literally coming out her from all angles. We're like, this makes sense. She's in London. You know, we're all about, you know, women and how women are treated in the media. And there has been a lot of shit around her body and everything. Exactly. So, yeah, we were, we sound like we're being a bit intense but we really did have good intentions we did but we got we fucked it well yeah and then

we got a reply from her agent um uh it was it was brief the reply was brief um unfortunately this will be a pass like thank you as he was good luck at the bafters have a nice time understood enjoy london yeah the aquarium's nice So, yeah, so Rebel Wilson isn't coming on the podcast. Can confirm. And I think I might have been blocked by now. Rebel Wilson will not be a guest. No.

But yeah. But for now, this week's guest, this was the best interview ever, right? Incredible. Also, because Candice is so amazing for a start, but also because it was live, like the two things just collided to make the best fun I've ever had doing an interview. Totally. I'm just going to put a pre-warning that there are sex and the same. City spoilers in this episode.

Oh, good thinking. Thank you. Thank you. Because I finished the season last night. Ah. Inspired by this. But I'm obsessed with this interview and I know you guys will be as well like it was. It was so cool.

It felt like it felt like a very mic drop interview. 100%. And we had a mic so I was thinking like do I drop? No. Can you just tell everyone? Can you just tell everyone please? No. No, my mom's.

Right. Well, I'm going to tell everyone then. Alex during the podcast kept holding the microphones and then when we went out for a drink after and she was like, I was like, did anyone else think those microphones were really phallic? They were very phallic. At some point, it just occurred to me. You know, you can't like unsee it or unfeel it.

And then I was like, am I holding it weird? Am I holding it like a phallic object? Like, oh, shit. So, but yeah, there you go. Yeah, if you hear any funny noises, that's the house. It was a mic drop interview, but I didn't drop our giant penis. Losing it. So as we said, this episode is sponsored by Georgia Astor,

who hosted the phenomenal festival where we interviewed Candice. Candice Brathway, if you don't know, and if you don't, you need to follow her on Instagram because she's just fucking fantastic. She's an author, a TV presenter and a journalist and a brilliant human being who we had the absolute pleasure to interview. Her first book, which I absolutely adored,

was called I Am Not Your Baby Mother, and it was a look really at the way that society here in the UK speaks about parenting and basically how racist it is. It was the most eye-opening book. We talk about that in the interview, but I think we do just need to give you a trigger warning before we do that we talk about Candice's own experiences

of quite a traumatic birth, which might make for quite hard listening. But in general, the interview, her books, all of her work is just so inspiring and eye-opening and brilliant, and we are really, really proud of this interview. So we hope you enjoy it. Hi everyone. Thank you so much for coming. This is our first ever live podcast recording. We are delighted to be doing it with Asda and with Candice, and we're so excited that you're all here, and thank you.

I'm just going to break everybody's eyes because Alex has just had a bit of shocker. She was on a panel this morning at the House of Commons, no less, and she just put on her Instagram that she was there, but she mispelled Commons and wrote condoms. in capitals I was like oh serious face because I'm at the house of condom I can see my phone flashing up my dad's like no

you have to go and spoil it I'm so bad oh gosh sorry we are so excited to have you here today and interview you so excited because I have followed you for years is you have an epic Instagram account. So for anyone who doesn't know, Candice is an author, a TV presenter, and a journalist as well.

And yeah, you have an amazing style, which I love, and which we're going to get into a bit as well that you share on your Instagram. And you've also written two books. We're just delighted to have you here. Thank you. Let's get stuck in. One of, I mean, talking about your Instagram account, we've both followed you for ages. And I feel like we'd be remiss not to mention your commentary of the ad. just like that series

which we've got to talk to you about so it would be amazing if you could just sum up the series for us in your own words I had friends who are not in the industry at all text me like do you follow her this is so funny oh my god I'm a massive massive sex in the city fan obviously when it first started showing I was way too young

to be watching it but by the time it came out on DVD box set which many people wouldn't even know what that is now I was like 1920 and I got the wickedest flu of my life one Christmas and I was in bed for two weeks so I just like binge watch the box set and like okay it wasn't diverse

it wasn't inclusive it was slightly problematic if you go and re-watch the series now but seeing women choose their own version of life was very refreshing like these characters didn't necessarily have a normal nine to five they didn't have kids they were chasing whatless men like

it was a vibe in my mind and something about Carrie I was like that's the kind of job I want to do like does she just get paid in shoes? Well, actually, writers are very poorly paid. Very. You don't make enough money to be buying all those shoes. I feel like Big was financing and a lot of that, but that's a talk about time.

So when and just like that came around, I knew I was going to hate it, but I didn't care. I was like, you're going to try and do too much. You're going to try and be up with the times. You're going to try and be too inclusive, and it's going to be a bit gross and a bit ick. But I've watched these characters for years. Like, I want to see what the next phase of their life is.

And also as a woman who is now closer to 40 than 20, I was interested in watching how they were going to let these characters age because all of a sudden I'm not in the like, you know, the one piece of string across here in the club. I like something that covers me. Like, what are we going to do with these characters? How are their lives going to develop? And it just became natural to talk about online

because I thought, this is hilarious. Yeah, it's terrible. But there are some really good things and it's posing really good questions and the style was still A1. in my opinion. I'd like to I mean we want to get on to who you thought was best dressed

but as you said the original series wasn't diverse at all and it stayed away from any kind of social issues and they really tried very hard with this new series to both diversify

and tackle social issues and there's been a lot of controversy around that and I wonder what you thought of how they went about that just doing too much especially in the first say three episodes I was like so you want to cover all these intersections in 32 minutes

my head was hurting I was like, okay, now she's with a they and this one's having a they mitzvah. I was like, and the professor bit as well. Yeah, I was just like, it felt icky, but also we cuss people when they don't try. You can't win with TV. Like, when you're not doing enough,

the audience are going to cuss you, when you're doing too much, we're going to cuss you. And I was like, right, I've got to see past that and see the character development. And I think they started to find their stride in the middle of that series. all of a sudden it wasn't too icky and it wasn't too overdone and the jokes that would usually belong to Samantha

they were able to pepper them out over different characters and of course it was necessary to see specifically black women and women of colour in roles like that in and just like that in professional roles being very serious being very rich like we needed to see that that was long overdue but yeah they could have relaxed in the first couple of episodes I was hell I was watching it just like

Oh my God. What is, yeah. But the style, like it was. Sorry. Yeah. Can we just, I don't know, what, favorite, like, favorite three? I know.

You know, she's my girl, so I'm going to stick beside her. She's crazy, Carrie's crazy. What this season really showed me, I was like, you're really selfish, you know, and you're really narcissistic, and you really like things your own way, and I really don't like you, but I've been rocking with you since the two-two, so it's fine.

I still love Carrie's style, because what Carrie presents to us is the ultimate high-low. The shoes may be Manolo but the dress may be like $50 from a flea market and I love that. I loved, I had the joy of being able to watch that and just like that documentary because I went to New York a couple of weeks ago. So HBO done a whole like behind the scenes and watching the fashion archive of that show is unreal.

And like Michael Patrick King and Sarah Jessica Park, they remember every single outfit from every single. single scene and like when she was in the parish dress eating the popcorn so she's still my number one i love what is her name sima what sema oh opulent decadent when she was it a laueva bag i don't know what bag it was in the table with like the panther curved on the handle i was like yes ma'am get your money and then of course i'm forgetting everyone's names now um my girl the the the one at the school um the black woman that wore the safari outfit oh my god SNAPs for LTW

I know the safari outfit was very like polarising but that's the point of fashion making people go oh my god I would never wear that that's so terrible so they're my top three You're right like it is so nice to see I'm loath to use the word older women because hardly but it is the first I mean like it's interesting like watching our childhood

people aging right and it's really nice that they get to keep having personalities and not just be moms you know like they get to like dress and still be completely who they were which is great your own style yeah how has that evolved as you've as you've grown um money money helps I'm not gonna front the 17 year old candy so a lot of the outfits I wear today they were stuck on the wall and it was like when my bank account says yes and you know but even before that it was just about trial and error I think I said

this the other day as well I've learned the hard way to dress for the body I have not the body I want. I think so often women are encouraged to like chase this ideal or see an outfit on Instagram or see an outfit everywhere and you buy it because you think, this is the thing we're shopping and people want us to believe that

buying that item is going to make us look like that person. We're not necessarily buying an item of clothing, you're buying into a dream or a beauty standard or an ideal and it took me a really long time to be like no skinny jeans aren't for you trousers that look like that aren't for you really get to know your body

and its proportions, and also, when you find certain brands or a style that works for you, stick by it. Don't feel swayed because this trend is coming around this season. So it's been a lot of trial and error, if I'm honest, and also understanding the power of a good tailor because I'm short and hippie, like things need taking in or pulling up or shortening. So that as well, like understanding that,

even if the outfit is not the most expensive, you can take it from looking like 50p to 50 pounds just by like taking up a hem or fixing a sleeve. That's so true. I'm too lazy to tailor my clothes. But you can tell it makes all the difference to someone's style, totally. But it's hard with the, sorry, but with the dream when you get sucked in on something

and like I keep trying to make tailored trousers work and they're just not working. And it's really sad because I see everyone looking trendy and it's just not happening for me. And that's the thing, like the people I admire the most, one of my style icons is Tracy Ellis Ross, the daughter of Diana Rock, that girl don't give a damn bout no trend.

She knows what works for her body. She knows the colours that suit. Like she's not going to bow down to a trend. And I think anyone that you consider a style icon, you consider them that because they know how to dress themselves. And you can then be someone else's style icon if you learn to do that for you. Of course I read the trends and I see them

because I like fashion. But I also know that 90% of what's on the runway is not going to work for me. Or if it is, I'm going to have to like cut and pay and amalgamate and and make it literally make it stretch um but that's not necessarily like the be all and end all i think it is about really paying attention to your social feeds i gave this advice to a woman that other day she was like you know i'm a dark skin black woman i'm plus size i'm not feeling very confident and i was like who do you follow you need to wake up in

the morning and scroll on yourself yeah so you need to start tricking your feed into seeing yourself you need to see women that look like you enjoying their lives enjoying their bodies and enjoying clothes. And I think so often we let social media speak to us instead of us really thinking about, right, if I spend a bit longer on this video and if I follow this person, I'm going to see a better, more confident reflection of myself. So I think the same can be said for style as well. Yeah. And I wanted to like go into a little bit what you said about like dressing for your body. And obviously we've all grown up with the, you know, idea that we have to dress, I guess to hide our body or hide the parts of our body that aren't, you know, socially acceptable and dressed

our shape and wear things that are flattering which is synonymous for thin do you sort of in regards to your body do you dress your body according to those rules or have you been able to throw the rule book out with that and just wear what you want to wear yeah i used to dress for the male gaze and i didn't realize this but when you're 20 and you're going to the club you want boys to notice you so there was a performance to getting dressed in my early 20s it was for the attention of. I think it was last year I went into COS, like for the proper first time. I was like

raw, everyone looks good in here, you know? The women coming in, they just looked unbothered and not just wealthy in money, but they just looked like they had their lives together. And I was like, it's the clothes. It's this refined look. And then I took that conversation to social media

and women who like women said it's because COS don't design for the male gays. Cause design for women. They don't care about what a man wants to see. They care about empowering. And then I was like, oh my God, I'm a coswoman. I'm a boxy, shapeless, more, you know, more expensive fabric type woman.

But that took time to learn. And that also, that means that I had to come to terms with the deep fact that, no, you're not going to be every man's cup of tea. And now this part of the conversation is coming from a place of privilege, because I've been with the same guy for a decade. So I'm very like, I don't really care what that guy thinks. but I would like to think, knock on wood, it doesn't happen, that if he were to pass away, I wouldn't necessarily revert again to dressing for the male gaze. Sorry to the men in here.

Men are just very giving trash right now. If I can use TikTok data, the streets of men are not streets I want to be walking. Like, I'm not trying to entice these guys with a podcast, Mike, asking me what I bring to the table. I'm just, I'm not there in my life and so that then dictates my style because guess what?

Nothing turns me on more than a woman running down the street after me and being like, where'd you get that? That is a vibe. If a man thinks I look good, I'm doing something wrong because actually I'm now deeply in my man-repeller phase.

I'm like, I don't, I don't want you to look at me, darling. It's fine. Of all the things, like I guess maybe I wasn't, not that I wasn't into, Maybe I wasn't into fashion in a massive way, which feels like kind of blasphemous to say, but here we are. I'm saying it. I'm definitely getting into it more as I'm getting older,

but it's the most exciting and empowering thing, hearing you say about the man repelling with the clothes. I'm like, it's so cool to recognize that. And it's like I really feel like, you mentioned the TikTok stuff, I do feel like we're kind of on the shift now, and it's like, oh my God, finally. Like it's like, I'm going to wear this because I'm comfortable and because I want to and because all of these ridiculous rules,

can't show your boobs and your legs because that's trashy and it's like who made those rules? Like it was just policing women right? Literally who made those and it was a way to then dehumanise the woman that did show boob and leg at the same time. It was a way to put her in a maybe you have a great rack and great legs and you should be showing them you know I follow this great

woman on TikTok she's in her 50s her name's Carla Rockmore she's like she lives in Texas like our worlds are so far apart but I just love the way she gets to play with fashion and again it comes from a place of I'm not dressing for the male gays and I think that's one thing I always want to encourage women to do and I'm trying, the reason I'm on TikTok so much

is I'm trying to catch them young trying to catch them before they get into the club thinking they need to shake their dang-y-dang in a G-string like if you want to do that call but 90% of the time when you really check it it's not for you. That's what I think I mean when I say I wasn't into fashion I think it wasn't

that I wasn't into it's that I I wasn't into that, that kind of like dressing in a way, maybe that was quite uncomfortable, whereas now I'm like, fun, because it's what I want, which is cool. Yeah. Interesting. You talk a lot about fast fashion as well and sustainability, and we love that you acknowledge that fast fashion isn't just fast fashion for some people. It's a necessity because, you know, shopping, sustainably is a privilege.

Do you think that's something that's left out of the ethical fashion, conversation online. Absolutely. And the ethical conversation online comes from the most primary place of privilege. These people are talking to us and they can afford a white t-shirt for 90 quids. Like come down off your high horse for a second. So few of the people you're trying to change their minds on can afford that tax bracket. And it's not, of course, yes, fashion is moving too quickly, but we cannot blame the consumer for that. Because again, what we tell them is you're not good enough, you're not making enough money, you need to step your game up.

No, you guys need... When I was a kid, there were, what, four seasons to fashion? Now there's like 28. This is your problem. Do you know what I mean? If there wasn't a new collection every week, this wouldn't be happening. And also, fast fashion is relative, again,

to what you were making. One of my favourite coats in my teen years was by Zara, and I had that coat for 11 years until, like, the pockets got these holes in it, so my money would slip down to the hem. and then I'm in like Morley's chicken shop trying to get this money and I'm like that's not fast fashion

I had that coat for over a decade and in my opinion £100 back then was an awful lot to spend on a coat the reality is now even my tax bracket has changed I'm still not going to get on my high horse because the reality is my children consume fast fashion I'm not sending

my son to nursery and Balenciaga trainers like that's not real life for me but at the same time as much as I enjoy and play with fashion I don't people watching me to be like, I'm a terrible person because I can't afford an 800 pound coat. My life is so unrealistic. And I think a lot of influences or people of influence, they're not quick to say that. I'm like, don't watch Candice because without freebies, Candice couldn't watch Candice. Don't necessarily always think, oh, so much of this is gifted or so much of it is coming

from a paycheck that is so beyond reality that I'm not expecting you to consume like me. So I'm I'm always trying to tell people like the life I live and the way I play with fashion, it's a proper 1% lifestyle, and I understand that privilege, but guess what? Here's the coat I'm wearing. H&M do have a good dup, though, girl, so

you know, yeah. If you could give one piece of style advice, you don't have to answer this. You can give more, you can just say no comment either way, it's fine. But if you did have to give one piece of style advice to anybody, what would it be?

just comfort yeah that's like just don't ever be in a position where you need to be like pulling down the skirt or pulling up the top or you're going to sit down and then you automatically want to take a pillow to cover your tummy because you don't like

the way that comfort comfort then leads to you looking confident even if you don't feel it again if it's more of a smock dress or like do what is going to make you happy and make you feel comfortable I remember like going to the club in just the matter

ridiculous shoes. And like, I must have looked like Bambi on ice. Eyes stacked it so many times. Again, because of the male gaze, because of performance. And it's like, I'm absolutely never going to wear that now. Not even in a club. Like, over

four and a half, I'm like, miss me with that. Again, that takes time. That takes... I think confidence comes with age, and like I said, most of my style icons, they're in their late 40s, early 50s. And they are very comfortable with who they are as women. So I think age makes all the difference. And it, of course, because it's experience and

exploration as well, isn't it? And experimenting with what you like, you know, like you say, we're taught like dress to get yourself a husband, you know? And then you go into a phase where it's like, oh, I can like dress for myself now. Like, oh, sorry, it just makes me, I literally want to be sick. I just, and even then, you're dressing to get this husband who is not even going to know the real you and perhaps engage in a relationship or a marriage filled with fallacy because you've done this put hate like yeah yeah not cool no so also on your platform we're just going through like all your little all your stuff and you've used your platform on your voice extensively to talk about race related issues and to shine a light on

the injustices that black people face especially in pregnancy during pregnancy and motherhood, and I know you've got an experience with pregnancy as well, and you founded the Make Motherhood Diverse Campaign, which sought to challenge the single story of motherhood and wrote a book, I'm Not Your Baby Mother, which is essentially a guide to life as a black mother. Can you tell us about why this issue is so important to you and how you came to sort of be an expert voice? I became an expert through experience, so my experience happened with Esme in 2013.

social media wasn't what it was, combined with the PTSD of not really wanting to explain. Like, you don't just rock up to a mother and baby group and be like, yeah, I almost died. How was that for you? Did you feel unlisted to? That's not a comment. It took a long time for me to then find black women who had gone through a similar thing. And it wasn't until the Embrace report in 2018 that I had data to support my lived experience. It's one thing to like complain to pals or your hospital about the way you were treated.

You need data. They still don't believe black women, even if they're in a coffin. It wasn't my fault. I didn't do it. I don't know what's going on. They want to see data. So having that data, it blew my world open. And I was like, okay, this is actually a problem.

And because it's something I experienced, I wanted to be able to have that discussion, like, openly. And then, of course, that led to a book like, I'm not your baby mother, which still, till this day, if you want a book about Black British Motherhood and you go to the British Library, that's the only book they can offer you. And we are now in a post-George Floyd society and yet in the parenting space it's still overwhelmingly white and you would think with the knowledge of this data people would be clamouring to hear from a different set of voices but it's still very much like

and no shade to midwives and you know I've been hearing you know midwives are rightfully really upset and you know they're like we're not being paid well enough some of y'all ain't looking after people well enough and that's a fact because the women in your care who are black or Asian or class as POC

or BAME, they are dying. They're not being well looked after. So I'm often caught between a rock and a hard place. I'm like, I hear your complaints, but also when the discussion of maternity failure arises, black women still aren't front and centre of that conversation. It's still a very like an asterisk at the bottom of an article. Yeah.

Do you mind me asking if you're comfortable sharing what your experience was? Oh yeah. So Esme, she was born, emergency C-section. And I remember as we were going down, the surgeon was like can we hurry this one along because I was meant to be home an hour ago and you don't remember these things until you're on the other side

so yes emergency C-section but it was literally like this is a slab of meat come on chop chop I've gone home the next day which I still find absurd after such major surgery like they literally send you home with Panadol that still is like anyway the day after that

I just start to feel sick I'm not better by the hour I'm dizzy when I say I'm sweating through to the mattress we're hitting this mattress and you're watching water like spring up. I've got three different midwives of all races and they're like you're overthinking it. You know, you're a new mum. We think you're looking into it a bit deeply.

You're losing water weight. By now my incision was really painful and sore to the touch. And they didn't even touch it. They just made me like pull down my knickers. They're like, oh, you'll be fine. Stay off of Mum's Net, they said. Don't let these articles like build your head up. By day three, I'm trying to soothe as,

made to get her to sleep. She falls asleep. We're awoken by this horrendous sense. I was like, rah, baby poo stick. No, this smell was like, I was like, this is death. Like, why does this poo smell like this? I'm getting up to go and make her a bottle. As I'm walking down the stairs, something starts sliding down my leg. And at the same time, myself and my husband scream, because he's clocked that the nappy's empty and I've clocked that the smell's coming from me. blue lick back to hospital blah blah blah like within the hour they had me back in surgery they were like you're slipping into septic shock

the wound is terribly infected and it's led to like your internal organs being in by that time I remember I was eating toast because I was hungry and like the surgeons I'm charging in they're like we've got to get you to surgery now who gave you food I said listen let me eat my food I said listen let me because I've been telling

you lot what was going on and me eating this toast and getting to surgery ain't going to make a difference if I diet I'm going out with a full stomach. Like, I was so vex and deluded. I was already in another planet. I was like, I'm not going down there hungry. Like, you guys have already got me to this point.

Oh, my gosh. And just the fury. And so I'm really calm. And I remember them putting me under and me just being like, rah, this could be it. But not really feeling sad or scared because my dad had died years ago. So there was a part of me that was like, Daddy, I'm coming, listen. But of course, there was a part of me that's like, I've got a three-day-old newborn. at home, but it's not in my hands anymore.

Come out, I spent five weeks in total in hospital, and going back to a newborn after five weeks is something I cannot, because she's built bonds with everyone else. She's literally just screaming at me, like, who are you? And it was just, it was such a dehumanising experience. It was very, like, I remember them bringing in, like, five trainee doctors. I had all these drains I had like six drains coming out of me

to take my drains out one day and no one asked if I wanted those doctors to be present and the lead doctor just like throws my sheet back and just starts like telling them what they need to be doing and she was Nigerian she was West African and I started crying and she was like oh stop you've got to like you've got to be stronger than this

and I was just like yeah until this day I'm still like it's a difficult thing to say but there are a generation of black women also not doing that situation any favours because they are upholding the fallacy of the strong black woman and I understand why they had to do it back then

but it is not helpful to young black women going into birthing situations right now for the woman that has the same skin as you to be telling you to buck up your ideas in front of white people at that point you need softness you need mothering so this isn't just a white doctor problem

this is an institutional health issue that even spreads to the US because the date is the same for African-American women. Have you, since you started having the conversation, I mean, surely the burden must be then when people bring their stories to you. Has it helped in any way sort of sharing your experience, I suppose, in a way that you couldn't before because, you know, they told you to stay off Mum's Net

and now, do you speak to other mothers who've had the same thing? Women send me all the time, pictures of them going to their maternity meetings with I'm not your baby mother in their hand with like post-it notes like you're not going to kill me I know how you're going to treat me look chapter 5 line 3

it's all like they are and have been able to be a vessel to create a book that people are now using as like some health Bible and a way to champion themselves it's beyond any dream any right it could have for themselves I remember my son got terribly ill last year with chicken pox it

turned into like a flesh eating bacterial infection it was the worst time of my life. I remember going in there and I thought, oh, these people are being really nice. And then the head of the kids department came down and she was like,

listen, I've read your book. She was like, I don't want no problems. She was like, we're going to save your son, don't you? And whilst that's amazing to have that privilege, that should be the care for every single woman.

It shouldn't be that because you know me or you think I have some kind of public clout that you're like, I'm going to do my... Come on. That should be the care you're giving to every single person that walks into a hospital. Should be the default, of course. Literally. But unfortunately, for black women, it's not.

And of course, if that data for black women then needs on to black babies. Because it even says in, I'm not your baby mother, I think black babies have a 121% send increased risk of dying in their first month. So this is not just black women, this is their babies. And even that doesn't get discussed as much as it should. Because there is always a way to hide things

or to make that new mother feel like it's their fault. And you're saying before, you know, obviously you've got individual midwives and individual doctors, there has to be space to talk about this systemic problem without blaming individuals necessarily. And it's such an annoying derailing of the conversation for individuals to make it personal when the data, and they shouldn't have needed the data

because you've got your experiences and that should have been listened to. But you are doing something very phenomenal in that space and I hope you're really proud of it. I am. Thank you. Sorry, I thought we were going to do a clap. You don't clap on podcasting, never mind. Can you tell this is our first live show?

Awkward. So, well, speaking of race-related issues, you have recently uploaded a post. You first talked about it on stories and then you uploaded a post that answered a question from one of your followers who asked why you were no longer talking about race-related issues.

And I really loved your answer because it was so honest and transparent. Are you able to explain that to us? Yeah, I get a lot of questions asked like, are you not speaking about race anymore? and I'm like, darling, I wake up every day looking like this, you know, like this is a conversation I'm having with myself brushing my teeth. Like, it's not because I'm not standing on this social platform every day,

chanting down Babylon that this is not an informed discussion in my headtop. Like, I'm thinking about this every day. But then I also had to clock again, and I'm probably going to be the most honest person, there was such a driving engagement in the George Floyd time and just after that. If you spoke about race, that became an addiction. Oh, that post didn't do so. Well, okay, tomorrow I'll go back to talking about race. Because that's what people clearly want me to talk about

because that's when the most comments come and that's when the engagement's high. And I just found that I was stuck on this wheel and I wasn't liking it. And I also knew that I was lying to myself. I didn't necessarily want to have this conversation every day because as a black girl growing up in Brixton, I don't know I was different until a white man told me so.

I was surrounded by people that looked like, this is still a very new experience for me, you know? So to have to recognize that I was perhaps clickbaiting myself, big game changer. I was like, I'm only going to speak about that when I really want to. And of course, a new audience flooded my space and many black creator spaces around George Floyd. And what they are now understanding is they only flooded that space to be educated. Now, what has happened is someone explained it to me. It's called the Pet to Threat Theory.

privileged white women necessarily came to that space and were like poor you black girl having such a hard time I want to support you like how can we change this fast forward a year that black girl's wearing a cute Valenciaaga coat

that pet is now a threat how dare she enjoy her life how dare she be enjoying fashion and having such a good time I can't possibly support a black woman perhaps having a better time at life than me because that's not what school taught me school taught me on this pyramid i'm on top she's below but i'm no longer looking down

i feel like i'm looking up this is a problem and when that shift came on social it was very much like you think you're too nice you're getting too big baby i was always this nice i already told you i was just waiting for the account to catch up like this was always going to happen and me engaging in fashion this way or having fun is not let's not delude ourselves that doesn't erase the put upon me just because of the colour of my skin. In some aspects, it makes me have to go harder in those spaces because that judgment's there. But it did mean that there was just this awkward little period

where people who had come for one thing and were getting another thing, they had to get off the bus. And that's no bother to me, darling. We can't all go on this journey together. But if you're not going to start to see black creators as wholesome and with many different faces, then we're going to have a problem. If you're solely supporting black, creators in their times of trouble

in their blues and not in their rhythm that's not going to work because what you're expecting us to do then still is perform for you. The tap dance to educate. We like to dress up. We like to have fun and I think me being honest about that hopefully will give

other black creators the room to be like I don't have to do trauma porn every day. I don't have to bring troubles and worries to a timeline every day. You should support me and my joy. Yeah. Yeah. I've never heard of that, the pet to threat theory, but that's spot on, isn't it?

And I guess as well, it must be frustrating getting questions like that from your followers or from other people saying, why aren't you talking about stuff like that anymore? Because I guess what it boils down to is, why should you? Yeah. You don't have to, why should you? At all.

And, you know, that then what... Then all these other things in the world happen, and then people are like, you were so vocal around Black Lives Matter. Why are you not reporting on this war? I'm not employed by CNN. Oh, I know. Look, when did I become BBC's report?

Hold on a second. And also, of course I'm going to be vocal around Black Lives Matter. It actually affects me. It's not necessarily something I need to learn about. It's a lived experience. But then came this expectation for any black creator who was vocal to now have to report on every single issue in the world. And if you weren't doing it, you were judged for it.

So I was like, guess what? We're not going to speak about anything anymore. and a great friend, an ex-friend, her mum once told me silence can never be misquoted. And it's a picture I've got in my office. Whenever I'm in a bind or I just want to run my mouth, I'm like, hmm, hoo-hoo. All they can say is that Candice didn't respond. And as a dark-skinned black woman, that's the trophy that's going to get you to the finish line, shutting your mouth. Because the reality is, I don't have the privilege of even say a lighter-skinned black woman who could perhaps clap back.

Or could say, I don't like that. You know, these things, again, there's this hierarchy. I have learnt that silence is going to get me what I want. Because the minute I speak, it's aggressive. She's being problematic. I could just say, my toe's hurting, you know. And then it will just be sold her some next story. Candice is so ungrateful to her feet.

She hates her feet. I'm like, no, my toe's hurting, guys. And so that quote has been very helpful. to me building this career because in times of trouble it's just like this is an inside conversation this is for family and friends you have your trusted people to take this conversation to black creators of all shades do not have the privilege of having every conversation publicly because there is no forgiveness there is no uncancelling the cancel for black creators we don't get a second chance so we have to modify ourselves yeah but it's also the like my favorite thing

about following your account is that it is unapologetic joy and it's so um it's so nice to see you know how you've unpoliticized or not unpoliticized but it's like you shouldn't have to be politicized in order to have you know you can have a conversation but you can also be into fashion you can have so many like strings to your bow and it's it's so nice i suppose to see you just resolutely not being in the box that people are it's so adamanty. that people go in, a pudding, like create as a pudding, you know? Yeah, I just, yeah, it's sad when, it's sad when that happens or when, especially on American TikTok, and I hate the way they say it, no offence,

because we say niche, and they say niche. You got a niche down, you got to find your niche. I'm like, no one's a niche or a niche, you know? Yeah. Like, we all have different things and we all like different things, and why is one human forced to just be that one thing? Yeah. Time changes.

I don't necessarily, no one would say Candy Spathaway and say Mummy blogging today. That ship herself. I still have children, but that's not the primary content that I give people to consume. And I think people, as long as you're not harming anyone and you're not like defacing anyone or being disrespectful, we should allow our creators to grow

because that's true support. You shouldn't just support when it suits you. Allow your creators to show different sides of themselves. But I also, I like that just in, the context of Instagram in general because we say all the time do better learn and then when people do start doing things differently to how they've done and people are like well I don't like it anymore and it's like what were you asking for yeah we hate change we hate change and it's like this is crazy because we are all trying really to learn and and to educate each other and ourselves and all

of this but there doesn't actually seem to be a lot of space for the progression then which is very weird I think people need to understand or the creator needs to understand that if you are going to live an authentic life get used to not having the biggest platform in the world. Those with the biggest platform are always going to bend to the calls of other people and that's how that platform

grows. You have to have a vision of what suits you and I am very happy with my community. I'm like because it's to the point like if someone leaves a hate comment now I just pin it because I know my people are going to deal with it. I'm like I don't have the time today.

Let me just push that to the top. Throw you to the wolves. To have that kind of community, I'd take that over having 10 million who don't really know me, don't really care for me, don't want to support or defend me. You want to build a community that, again, when I'm having to do silence, can't be misquoted. People are going to defend me. I think that's when you know you've got a really solid community. But the time does slightly changing, but I think we just need to get over this numbers game of social.

It's like, it's very boring and it's not working. Even brands and businesses now are like, we're not giving someone with 5 million followers our money. Who are you talking to? Who are you selling to? The micro-influencer is in, and that's why I tell, anyway, I get so many questions like,

I'm so scared to start vlogging or, I'm like, do your thing. I leave my kids at the dinner table every night to go and watch someone unboxed Nespresso capsules. I'm like, enjoy your dinner. I've got a date with Anne-Marie. She's just got some new coffee capsules in, I'm off. and it's like

there's an audience for everything so it's like don't get so caught up in your head or see people with these millions of followers and think that that's the be all and end all there's such a beauty to create in content and you will learn as much as the people who end up following you in the end

yeah so can we finish this by asking what's next for you and your platform what would you what's the dream the dream is to be like the next chondarones I would like to get to a point where

I don't necessarily have to be the face of something to keep my household afloat. That's boring. My kids are getting older. I don't necessarily like the intrusion. Being able to be paid to create stories is the avenue I'm heading down. I'm starting to write for TV now,

which is very different to writing books. But I'm thinking that's going to be the vibe. We've got the YA novel coming out in August. So that's book number three. And I've already signed a contract for book four. Oh my gosh Yeah You're going to be busy

You are busy I want to know I can't believe we're ending on this note But just personal question Do I need a peloton Absolutely And send this clip to them Run me my cheque

Yeah yeah Yeah yeah It's like the best Send me an affiliate I have a confession Go on I bought a peloton yesterday I knew we were going to talk about it

And I was like, if I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it now So I've got it. It's so good. Is it? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Do you have friends on Peloton? No, I don't follow no one and I don't let no one follow me

because then it becomes a competition. And I just, I turn off all the leaderboards. I'm not interested. If I need to get off and take a break, I'm going to take a break. I don't want to feel like, ugh. Like I'm never going to be that kind of gym person, but it's fun if you're not in competition. So no. Okay.

You're using name private. Okay. Yeah. So solid advice next. Yeah, okay. We're going to have you one by the end of March. Yeah, yeah. Thank you so much.

This has been absolutely brilliant and just, yeah, really fantastic. And thank you so much to everyone. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So I've literally just had this. Is it just me? Love it.

I've been recording. I just check my DMs. And it's from somebody, and I know we talk a lot about marriage and weddings and and the feminists in us when it comes to marriage, but I still think it's relevant, so here we go. So this girl says, hi. I'm not even going to read the profile. I love the ball girl, four.

But she said, you know, because in the first couple of episodes, she basically, she's sending this message because we've talked about weddings and the pressure and whatever before. So she said, I love my partner so much and I can't wait to marry him and the day will be incredible, but we've both gained weight over the last eight years together, and all of the focus seems to be on me losing the weight

for the big day, and no one's even mentioning it to him. and it's infuriating. My inner feminist is boycotting all of these shitty comments about weight and wanting to love myself as I am and not focus on it and just enjoy the day. But I'm finding it so hard not to have it in the back of my mind when all eyes are on me and I'll be self-conscious. I'd love to hear about it because I just don't think it's spoken about it in this context

because you're meant to be all excited for the big day and I'm shitting it. And, you know, what, can we talk about it? And you know what? I was actually thinking, when she's saying, you know, I'm meant to be so excited for it. It's like, that's me before every single holiday or it used to be. and you know you're so excited and you're like I'm going away I'm going on holiday and then you just you can't actually look forward to it because you're just like so consumed with self-consciousness yeah um I have so much to say on this I feel like this is the whole podcast episode by itself yeah well we can do a whole podcast episode about this we should yeah 100% because this is I mean it's it's so skewed like overwhelmingly skewed towards women like looking your best on your big day yeah and I wrote an article about it

and I did a Google search on like bride weight loss and there was something like I can't remember but it was literally like billions of results and there's hardly anything for groom weight loss literally like people keep talking to me about my wedge thread like am I on the wedge red and it's honestly

it's so funny because it's so much like about my dress and my body and my this and my this and I'm like what's Alex wearing who knows what size who cares like no one gives a fuck and it's all back rooted to this fucking bullshit thing

of we're being given away with a prize. We've been swapped for three suckling pigs and an acre of land by a local farmer and our father's going to wheel us down the aisle is a nice gift in an exchange for all of their generosity. And aren't we lucky? And we should look so pretty. Yeah, exactly. And just be little and slight. And thin, like

obedient women. Yeah, we're white because we're virgins. Yeah. Yeah, oh God, it drives me nuts. It drives me nuts. And there's so much, there's an actual wealth of shit out there for, like, brides. There's even like how to dehydrate yourself for your big day so that you look thinner in photos. Honestly, it's insane. It's absolutely insane. Bullshit. And I hate it, but then I feel like, think of this as like your

act of rebellion. It shouldn't be an active rebellion. Not losing weight for your wedding. That's actually such a good point. And you know, my mom said something to me. When I was trying on my wedding dresses, the one I tried on that I loved the most and it was like the most beautiful thing in the whole wide world. And I genuinely everybody cried. Like it was so stunning. I was like, wow, I love this so much. And then I, and that was like, this is my dress. This is my dress. But then, you know, because I was in the shop, I carried on trying other dresses. And the next one I put on, my mum was like, it changed everything. She was like, you breathed out, you went and sat down.

And I went and I did. I went and sat down and I watched my girls, like my bridesmaids, try on their dresses. And I laughed. And my mom was like, that's your dress because I just was like, ha. Like I just, I breathe. And like, I wouldn't have done it in the first dress because you could see like where my tummy was. And I was like, and I was aware of it even as I was doing it.

And I was like, you know, like breathing in and whatever. And it's so true. Like, you have to be comfortable and, yeah, I don't know. It is fucking bullshit, though. Yeah, you have to be comfortable. Find a dress that suits you. Think of it as your act of rebellion as you putting, you know, your middle finger up to his stupid standards.

Yeah, and anybody that looks at you and thinks anything about your body or your size on your fucking wedding day can suck a dick. Because, like, who the fuck are they? Who are they? This is your wedding day, marrying the love of your life, and you're going to walk down that fucking aisle with your beautiful body and your beautiful dress

and you're going to have the best day ever. And if anybody wants to sit and judge you, like, are they okay? Are they okay? And I think what's important as well is to get to get to like the source of like the desire to lose weight. Like if you've got your wedding coming up

and you feel like you have to lose weight, like get to the root of your desire for it. Like think about it. Like why? Why do you want to lose weight? Do you think it's going to make a difference to your wedding day? Probably not.

Like your wedding day is insane. You're surrounded by literally everyone you know and that means something to you and it's so full of joy and excitement and nervousness as well but how you look what size your body is is so irrelevant to all of it

you're not going to dance better you're not going to love harder your vows aren't going to be more impressive I didn't lose any weight for my wedding and I look back now and there is no part of me that's like I would have had a better time if I'd have lost weight or I would have liked the pictures more if I'd lost weight

no I love them like it captures the day and that's all that matters I also just can't be fucked. Like, my wedding's coming up and I'm just like, I can't be, no. And people are like, you know, because everyone's there and everyone's going to see you, everyone doesn't care. No. They don't care?

And like, they might look at you and go, God, don't you look gorgeous? Great, that's it. Are they ever going to think about you again, how you looked on your wedding day? No. And if they do, there's something wrong with them. Exactly. Like, those that matter don't mind and those that mine don't matter. Exactly.

Genuinely, I think anybody who can look at a wedding, I think anybody that says something negative of a wedding is a properly miserable bastard. because weddings are objectively the best fucking days for all involved. And I've never looked at a bride and thought anything other than, oh, yes. Because you know, you know that that woman has put on a dress she fucking loves and she's bought it with the support and the love of her friends and her family and how specials that. And that's all I think when I look at a dress.

I'm like, that is you that encapsulates all that you want. And that's perfect. And even if she doesn't love it, like it's not about what she's wearing, isn't it? No. It's not about how she looks. And I'm like, I just, I, it sounds so cringe, but I think it's true. Like, you genuinely see their happiness and their excitement and their nervousness. It's like, it's so special to see that in their face and it's exciting.

And I just think it's just a load of rubbish that clouds, like, dampens weddings for so many people because they end up starving themselves beforehand. And I think, I think, like, what is really important to ask is, like, do you feel healthy? And this is like a bit of a weird one because you're like, what do you mean? I feel healthy. It's like, well, before my wedding, I felt healthy as in that I was eating well. I was, you know, I was never restricting myself. I felt like nourished. And for me, restricting or dieting would have made me unhealthy. And I would rather be healthy and happy on my wedding day than undernourished just so I can look a certain way, which is arbitrary anyway. Yeah, love that. Love that. You know what? I'm much more concerned about walking down the aisle.

I'm convinced I'm going to stack it, yeah. You won't. I might. Because I came downstairs, right? And I was absolutely shitting myself. I bet you. I got stuck, didn't I? I got stuck, my veil got stuck and no one came to help me.

I had seven, eight bridesmaids, no one came to help me. You won't, you'll be fine, you'll be fine. But you know what? If I do, I'd be so on brand. That's what I'll keep saying. It's like, wouldn't have it any other way. That's the thing as well. I was so worried about beforehand.

And then I was like, what's the worst that can happen? I fall. Break an arm. To be fair, if I fell down the stairs, I could have actually really hurt myself. But taking out all your bridesmaids on the way down, and your dad. And the guy who, I don't know what he's called,

the guy who does the ceremony. That'll be me soon. Yeah, yeah. The bottom right in harm's way. So yeah, if you fall, you fall. Yeah. It's all good. Yeah, fuck it.

Have fun. We'll all laugh. We'll pick you back up. Yeah. And it'll be great. It'll be a hoot. Just make sure someone's filming it. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, we should to actually talk about this in a podcast episode.

I'd love to. And I do get a lot of messages about this as well just because the pressure is intense. Let's do it ahead of my wedding. Let's have a wedding special. Okay, yeah, we're putting that out into the ether now. Hold us accountable. Okay.

So I hate that our podcast always sends into toilet humor, but here we are. Hi, girls, I will of course start off by saying I'm loving the podcast. I've been meaning to message you since, is it just me, where a girl mentioned loving the smell of her own farts. It made me realize that not only do I love my own, but I have also grown to love my dogs. No.

So much so that sometimes I actively seek them out to sniff them. Discuss. What do you mean seek them out? In my head, she's like pumping it like a billow thing for a chimney. Like giving the little tummy like a little massage. Feeding a brawl beans. Oh my God. You're an animal.

You know what? I've got my best friend's dog staying at the moment this week. So Bua is, I mean, she's a real lady, you know, and sometimes we call it death bomb, like when she eats something really bad, and they are, honestly, how can something sweet make something so bad? But they're rare, it's sporadic, and it's almost funny because it's like, you know, keeps us on our toes. But this guy, Kiko, my best friend's dog, like, ugh. He's so bad. And I think he's really big. He farts so much.

And I think I could have sat in that room for the next 400 years and never learned to like that smell. so I don't understand this. I don't like it. Her poo, picking up her poo, like it still makes me gag. This morning, like, I was feeling slightly uneasy in my stomach. And I was like, I'm going to puke. I'm going to puke in the park.

I'm like holding back the gag. It's disgusting. I don't like anyone's part. I don't know if anyone's ever done that, gone to pick up and poop and just vomited. It's just so gross. And I love this little thing so much, but I will never love dealing with her shit.

Oh, I don't mind poo was poo. So I've had it there, they're like a lot more teasers, they're absolutely fine. I actually actively look forward to them on cold days because I'm like, oh, that'll warm my hands up. Yeah. Yeah, but have you ever smeared it on yourself by accident because I have like five times. Why? No. I don't know. I think it's when I go to double pick up. No.

So you know when you put the bag on your hand and you pick up once and then you realize that you've left a bit so you go back in to pick up. Yeah. Something about the double dip. Yeah. Shouldn't say dip. No. Double dip means that then it gets on the outside of the bag and then ends up on my hands. I think that's just that's human error

because I'm stuck in the park and I'm holding my hand out because I can't bear it being anywhere near me and I've got shit in my hands yeah no okay well I don't understand I don't understand either of you okay well is it just me does anyone else get dog shit on their hands I can understand like once like oh

but like five times okay three maybe three even a had of that long maybe three hmm I don't know man I need to watch this I need to watch this process because I'm not sure you're doing it right okay I have one serious is it just me that we weren't actually sent in but I got it on my Instagram and I just feel like

you're so good at talking about this sort of thing and you'll do it better than I did. No, somebody just basically sent in a thing I asked for people to send in their toxic traits on my Instagram and I kind of was expecting people to be quite gas like one girl sent one in being like I always say yes

when people on Instagram ask if they should cut their hair short. I love that one. Fucking lull. You bitch. I was like, oh my God, it's you. Like, you're the reason. Anyway, so I was expecting to be like that but I actually got a lot of like really serious ones.

which was great. I love to see people being so self-aware and I realize how much the patriarchy has basically fucked us all and made us all bit toxic. But it's great that we're recognising that. Anyway, one of the entries I just thought you would be able to unpick better than I could

was an entry from a girl who basically said, my toxic trait is that I instinctively feel happy when I see that somebody else has gained weight, like another woman has gained weight. And I shared my thoughts on that, but I thought this is something that you're really good at talking about. So it's not just this girl, right, who feels like that. No.

But it would be really cool to hear, like, from my expert, what's it called? My expert from experience, Alex Light on this. Yes, this is a really interesting one because this is common for a great deal of people. And it's really problematic because we are placing or, you know, we see someone who's put on weight and that makes us feel happy. And it boils us because we feel like it makes, so basically it makes us feel less alone, right? We all have this like astounding pressure to be thin and seeing someone put on weight and be bigger and makes us feel less alone and makes us feel less pressure. But the problem with, so I totally understand that.

And I understand why people have, you know, they take comfort in people who look like them. However, the problem with this is that you are all. always basing your value, your self-esteem, your worth, your contentment with yourself in someone else and that's fluid, that comes and goes because just as that person put on weight, that person can lose weight and what happens then, your sense of self is destabilised because suddenly, well, what's going to happen, you're going to feel bad. The inverse is going to happen if they lose weight. Or even if somebody else loses weight. Or if someone else is flit and flop and whatever and put it on somebody else.

Yeah. And I think this is like, this is true of comparison across the board, not just with bodies. It's like comparing yourself, like people say it's good to compare yourselves up and I'm not convinced about that because I think when you do that, whenever you make a comparison, whether it's an upwards comparison or a downwards comparison, you're always placing your power in an external source and you can't control that external source. The only thing you can control is yourself. And so the only place that the power, you know, your value, your worth. and your self-esteem can come from is internal and it's within you. And that's why I think it's important to unpick why you feel better when someone else has put on weight. And I think fundamentally, like the thing that I said on Instagram about it was the reason that you feel good when somebody else loses weight is like Alex said, like we have been taught, we have been conditioned to compare ourselves.

Right, like for as long as we've existed, you read those magazines, heat, you know, closer, all that shit. That was like best and worst beach bodies. It's, every time you looked at one woman, they were compared to another woman. A fat woman was compared to a thin woman. Like, it was constant. There was always a put, even look at Kate Medleton, a mega Markle, they are put against her. The women are always pit against each other. So we instinctively do that.

And we feel like maybe it's a bit of nature because, you know, we have to compete for a mate. But really, it's a lot of patriarchal conditioning that we have to, the thing that makes us the best for a mate is to be the thinnest and the prettiest. When actually, historically, the thing that makes us best for the mate is good child-bearer. hits but we'll get into that another day but you know so we think we have to be the most beautiful which is synonymous with thinness right so we think we have to be the thinness and when somebody else gains weight we think fuck yeah they're out the race like yeah i'm ahead of them now and just because of this one thing which is ridiculous so unpicking that as well is just it's great like it's so

important that's my favorite thing to do now with all the all my basically toxic shit it's just push but why but why and you just work all your why's back until you've got to an answer that was nothing to do with you or her or her body or your body, but actually to do with some fellow wanting to make a fuckload of money from selling magazines, weight loss products, bikinis and insecurity. That's so true because once you actually get down to the why, the very first why, it's like it actually has no meaning, no value. And what you're saying, nurture in nature as well, like yes, we are like humans are hardwired for comparison, we have that in us, but it's all compounded. And it starts from,

the very beginning, like our weights as little babies are measured against the weights of others. We're put into percentile. And then from then onwards, you know, our grades are measured against other people's. Our sports are sporting, you know, our athletic prowess is measured against other people's. And we are always on, we are always being forced into comparison. So that's the final thing I think we should say is that you shouldn't feel shame around it. No. Don't judge yourself for it.

No. Just look at it and reflect on it with compassion, not judgment. Stunning. There we go. Smash it. What an episode. Woo! And we hardly talked

about shit at all. I know. You're welcome. You can't that shit for a bit. We did, didn't we? Okay. Oh, we did? I got shit on my hands.

Fuck. Next episode, no shit. We'll see. Anyway, guys, thank you so much for listening. Yeah, thank you. That's it. That's it.

And thanks again to George, Asda, for sponsoring us. I'm making this interview happen because we fucking loved it. Uh-huh. And we've got more of this next week. as well because we've got an episode with Brianie Gordon which I am so fucking excited about

but for now have a lovely week we love you see you next week see you next week bye