Should I Delete That? - Living after a life changing injury with Ed Jackson

Episode Date: November 7, 2022

This week, Em and Alex chat to author, mentor, broadcaster and former professional rugby player Ed Jackson. Ed shares his his incredible story with us, explaining how an injury completely transformed his life. When Ed was 27, he was involved in a tragic accident and suffered a spinal injury that left him paralysed from the neck down. Despite being told his body wouldn’t recover from below the level of injury, he defied all odds. Now, Ed shares his journey with us, and you can follow the work of his foundation Millimetres 2 Mountains here.Click here to buy Ed's book, LuckyFollow us on Instagram @shouldideletethatEmail us at [e-mail] & edited by Daisy GrantMusic by Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Did you know all our glamping units have a resort, quality, Canadian-made, and eco-friendly bed? Since day one, we have proudly partnered with Colonna-based mattress company Haven, ensuring you have the best sleep possible. So it's just one more reason to visit us in the Boreal Forest. You can also try out a Haven Mattress, risk-free, for 100 nights, athavenmatress.ca. And I went around to family friend's house to use their swim pools, like first hot day of the year. And I dived in and it was only about three feet deep and hit my head right on the top. And then when I tried to stand up, that's when I realised something was really wrong.

Hello and welcome back to Shudai. So sensual. I know, I know. know why i've become obsessed with this girl on ticot who's a news anchor right or like genuinely thought you're going to say nagella lorson i'll welcome anyway sorry carry on um this news anchor in the state and she films herself getting ready for the five o'clock news five a m news and she she gets she starts to do her makeup at literally like 445 and she goes right down to the wire she's literally live at 5 and she's putting lashes on at 4 57 and like it doesn't it's doing really bad things

for my anxiety but such compelling watching like every morning she films herself doing it I'm like is she gonna make it is she gonna fucking make it and she always makes it it upsets me immensely that when it's like we come to like a thrilling situation for a man like I think of like a thrilling situation

and it's Indiana Jones in the hat and I think of our thrilling situations and will she get her lashes on in time true good point although all that came to my head there was like when people talk about danger wanks oh my god

did you follow move with taro on instagram yeah um she did a thing on her poll on her stories of the day where people were sending in the weirdest places that they'd had a wank and oh my fucking god i died like what like what the gatwick express the gatwick express oh my god so specific not just like any old train no no the gatwick express and where was she going was she excited for the holiday like so excited for the holiday that she had to like

like bash one out or she's just like sad about coming home so she's trying to cheer herself up. A sad bank. My mum's in the house. And this house is like there are no balls basically. So she's going to be like, sorry, what are you talking about in this podcast? Talking to yourself about sad ranking because I've got headphones in. How are you? I'm thriving.

I'm good. I'm really good. I have some good news. I have my good. Well, it's probably my bad. Oh. It's my good, but it's come with some bads, as I knew it would, which is what, it's good for you, okay? I genuinely want a drum roll because, as you may know, nine months ago, I lost my bank card.

Yeah. Longer than nine months. It could be a year ago. I lost my bank card. It feels like since I've known you, but anyway. The system is flawed, but fine. So for the last year, I've had no bank card, and I've just existed. I'm chaotically via Apple pay, a credit card, thankfully, which I found halfway through this experiment.

And I like that I'm calling it an experiment to give it some sort of credibility. And through having to spend my friend's money and then pay them back. Because if my Apple Pay is not working, then you end up in trouble. And I only had like one mildly terrifying incident at that petrol station, like on the motorway where I couldn't pay for anything. Anyway, it's been 10 months and I didn't want to get a new one because I knew what would happen if I got a new one. single thing. It happened this morning. This is about right. Okay, fine. We're good. I got a new card. Okay. I went into my online banking. Thank you. Thank you so much. And just like roses landing on me. Oh, pair of pants. Thanks. Yeah. So it was huge. Alex, my Alex genuinely

couldn't believe it. But I had to do it because I basically realized that I'm a grown up. I'm about to be a mother. And also I went on my bank and like there was money missing. And I was like, it's probably me that spent it, but I just, I'll be sure. So I just feel like I need to take some control. So, yeah, I got a new one. But now the bad thing is I woke up to a bunch of emails today. Obviously, it's the beginning of a new month. Like my telegraph subscription, which to be honest,

I probably could have done with cancelling anyway. I think I only got it for like once. So me and you could read an article together. Do you remember? And then I was like, well, I've done this. Anyway, that's expired. Like, all my subscriptions, I've had a thing this morning. being like they've all expired. I'm like, oh no, because it's all been connected to the same

card for like three years. And it's all direct debit. Rollin, rolling, rolling, rolling. That's over. That is really annoying. It's so fucking annoyed. And I knew it would happen and this is why I've been putting it off. Also, have you seen bank cards these days? Where are the numbers? Oh my God, where are the numbers? And it's also back to front. No, no, upside down. Oh, there are the numbers. The numbers are all in the back. And it's got a funny little divit thing. But it's also like, it's like portrait, not landscape. And it's mad. Stupid.

And it's like there's no, there's no raised numbers or anything. It's just like, this is the future. And I've just been missing it. I didn't know. I haven't seen money like card money in so long. Question. Does anyone actually sign their credit cards? I'm going to do it right now.

I don't think I ever have. I only have a pink pair. Do you think it's okay? Well, does it come out pink? Yes, it's a pink pen. Oh. I'm just going to write it in pink. I'm writing it in pink.

Woo! Yeah. So I'm back. Excellent. Back in the land of the spending. Wow. I have a new card. It's an admin fucking nightmare, but there's a sense of pride.

You've come this far. I'm so proud of you. I know. You think I got it three days ago and I still haven't put it in a wallet. It's just gone from like bag to bum, bag to pocket to kitchen table. So I feel like that. This one's not long, yeah, not long for this world. Great.

It's been good while it lasted. Also, let's fight, like, next week my bad will be that I've found the old one. I guarantee it. Oh, my God, it's a thousand percent will. It's like when you, oh my God, it's like when you enter, right, so you go onto a website and you type in your username and your passwords, right? Type in your password, it's not right. You type it in again, it's not right.

And you type in like two variations, it's not right. So you're like, fine, I've got to reset the fucking password. So reset the password, you follow the link, you type in the new password, which is, you know, your normal password. And then it comes back and it goes, sorry, you can't use one that you've already used before. And it's like, okay, so I knew the password. I was typing in the password. Unless you do the password, unless you've just done this whole thing before, which is most likely. So then you probably just add, like, this happened last time.

So you had to add an exclamation point on it, but then you forgot about that. So then you had to do like a capital, or then you had to put like a lucky number. Bane of my life, honestly. No, I know. It's so annoying. I'm so easy to hack. Also, I get emails most days being like, your password's been like compromised in a data leak. Do you want to change it? I'm like, no.

Oh, my God, I know. Chrome says to me all the time, 76 passwords are compromised and I'm like, I can't today. I'm so sorry. And that's been for about a year and a half. So how am I supposed to change 76 passwords? That's a whole two days work. I know. And literally like, I'll write a word and then passers.

would be like 21, 22, 2020, 2020, 2020. So I try and remember the last time I got locked out of an account and what year it was in. It's literally so bad. And like, how many question marks did I add? You know, my personal hotspot password is I love Alex, which I set up for you, but my Alex thinks it's for him. So every time he asks for the password, I'm like, I love Alex. He's like, oh, I'm like, yeah. Sure. Isn't that sweet? That's sweet. Oh, yeah, I love you so much. Okay, if you got anything for me, good, bad, or please. I do, I do.

My good is that whenever we ask a question on the podcast and we ask someone to tell us the answer, even though we can Google ourselves, but let's skim over that. People actually respond and tell us the answers to stuff. And I know why we have this stupid system for centuries now. Not because I Googled it, which I, do you remember, 21st century? we were like why because it's actually the 20th century right a lovely historian called charlotte responded to me and said hi Alex to answer your question re-centries the year one to 100 is the first century therefore 101 to 200 to 200 is the second century and so on so the 15 hundreds are in the 16th century it's the same when we go to bCE before common era or bc before christ because she had me before before common era

a bit but that does make sense so yeah that does make sense on the end it's it's the bigger one so if it's like the 15 would be for the 1400s exactly yeah so I guess at the time it made sense

now not so much I feel like we could reassess but that's why will you say 25th century are you okay because that's not the best good like I mean it's a good good like Charlotte sounds great and I'm happy but like it's been seven days and that's for good. I just think it's cool that like we put this out there

and people actually listen and think to help us with stuff. Okay, yeah, well, okay, that was depressing. You got on your bank card, I'm sorry. It's so true. You're driving. I've got a new bank card. Oh, great. And my backup good was that,

I know exactly the same thing, my back up good was that after on the podcast, we'd said, does anyone know where I can go and get my asshole waxed, basically? This actually should probably be my, awkward and it would have been my awkward had I not done the most awkward thing ever a couple of days later but um I put on the Instagram I was like thanks everyone for the recommendations after talking about hairy bumholes and then loads with DM me back being like did you just

tell a course for a million people that you had a hairy also I was like might have done yeah I think so I think I did anyway I've found someone to give me a good a good wax and I loved it so that was nice anyway you cannot complain about you're good I have two things that are interchangeable for bad and awkward. I feel like a picture needs to help illustrate this because this is actually quite severe what happened, right? So we have a driveway, small one, but at a squeeze, we can get two cars into it, right? And knowing the kind of driver I am, I should just not pull it, pull into it and not reverse into it. However, I always see it as a bit of a challenge, like, am I going to do it? Like, let's just give it a go and see what happens, right? So I thought, I'm going to reverse in. So I went

round to see my mom came back. It was very dark. I was like, I'm going to reverse in, see what happens. So I did reverse in, but I reversed in so close to the wall on this side, right? Literally that I could only just get out and the door was touching the wall. But this wall is only like a foot tall? Like it's not tall at all, right? I know your metric systems are terrible. So can you just give me on you how high the wall goes? Oh, like up to my knee. fine thank you up to my knee and because we kind of live on a hill so down below so at the other side of the wall

right is a big drop into a nursing home into the into the property of a nursing home you slip and you fall and you fall through the ceiling and just land on some like tension is laugh pretty much it's like look over the wall you've got a bird's eye view of like Winifred and Geoffrey literally coming on bagels

Bam, real. Not even joking. So, that is what... I imagine it like a descent to hell. Like, you just, like, there should be, like, a rickety bridge over it, but that's long gone so you could just fall into the fiery abyss. So, I'm not good at this. But it's probably, like, up to my boobs, the drop.

Is it to the roof of the house? No, so into the, like, the grounds, the grounds of the nursing home, right? Interesting. Why do I feel like you live in the, like, the house from up that's just like... Okay, you're focusing on... You're focusing on... You're slightly like floating above this old people so I'm like loving over them. Anyway, sorry.

We live on a hill. So the people on the other side of me are higher up than me, right? I'm going to have to come and visit, okay. I know, that sounds confusing. But bear with me. So we've got it, right? So wall's a little bit further up. Then over the wall is a drop into the nursing home grounds.

I got out of the car and I was so preoccupied with making sure that the car didn't get scratched that I didn't pay any attention to myself and I actually don't really know what happened but I fell over the wall. I like into the abyss kind of buckled into the wall and then I stumbled, stumbled, stumbled, stumbled, stumbled and went over the wall and dropped down into the nursing home grounds. Oh my God and were the old people okay? Did you crush any on the way in? Luckily it was just the grounds but I was bruised on all, in all areas.

It's so embarrassing. You go. How high was the drop up to your boobs? It's a big drop on the side. It was a big drop. Yeah. It was, I can't, I rolled, I rolled rather than like fell. Yeah.

Cool. Yeah. And I think you should invent a new eight measure just like Alex's knees, Alex of boobs, like just measuring your own things that you know the title. Betty. Coffee deal. Oh my God, that's so fun. That's bad and awkward.

Have you got a ring camera? Please tell me you've got a ring camera. So I, no, we do, but it's out of reach. I was so pissed up. And also Dave, like, it's also not set up to record, apparently, which is annoying. But I ran in and I was like, Dave, and honestly, I've really, I actually have really hurt myself. I'm bruised and scratched, and there was blood.

There was actually blood on my legs and everything. Like, I really fell. And I walked in, like, completely shell-shocked. obviously my hair was everywhere and i was like dave i just fell over the wall and he was like you just scratched the car and like run out to the car to check the scratches i hadn't because i paid such careful attention to the back to the car the human sacrifice ensured that the car i know and he walked back in i was like i'm not speaking to you because i came in in distress and your primary concern bloodied and bruised like the car was the car door who cares you fell

the height of your own tits into an old people's home. And all he cares about is this fucking car, typical. Literally, the height of my tits, literally. That's high, okay? It's a big drop. It's a big drop. They're not as high as they used to me, but they are still pretty high. Yeah, I'm talking high in a bra, okay?

Okay. High in a bra. That makes me feel a bit better about what I did. Go on. This is actually so embarrassing. I'm so embarrassing. I deliberately didn't tell the whole story on Instagram because I thought I'd save it for you because I thought you could do it being cheered up.

this week. Yes. So I went to a quiz on Monday night. It was Halloween on Monday. So we went to a quiz. I went with my best mate Ellie and her mom and her boyfriend and Alex. So five of us at the quid and Boer, great team, winning, like stunning. And it was, it was a big, big thing. But we were basically, we sat, because we were quite a big group, we were sat at a table around the corner. So everyone else was kind of in the main room, but we were around the corner. But it didn't really matter because you could hear the guy because it was a big speaker. So anyway, for context, we were doing the quiz. Everything was going well. And then And in the interlude, in the middle bit, he was like, okay, everyone has to submit a joke.

And I'm going to read the joke out. I was like, oh, my God, I want to die. And you had your name of the joke. The question was, what makes you scream? And everyone had to answer it on the piece of paper. And then he would read out your answers. Okay. I was not in the mood.

I'd just eaten a burger, which a vegan burger, obviously, which had turned out to be very spicy. So I was grappling with my heartburn. And I was just, I was in a place. And I just thought, I'm going to be a smile ass. I'm going to be a funny guy. So my answer was ice. Because if you say it, I scream, right?

It's fucking terrible. Oh, that. You know, it's original. So I put my answer in and I thought, well, that was fucking shit. That wouldn't do. And then to my horror, he started reading everybody's jokes out.

I was like, oh, God, with our names. And, yes, not good. And he read out everyone's, everyone was like, when I scream, it's like, emotionally available men. And everyone's like, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Or it's like, Liz Truss. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Or, like, a Tory government.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. You know what I mean? Like, it was just like, unshaved balls. Ha, ha, ha, ha. All of this. Great. And then he got to mind. He was like, M.

And then he was like, ice. Fucking cricket. And I was like, thank God, I'm sitting around the corner and no one can identify me. And then he carried him, and then he was like, and the winner is. And he went, no one. else found it funny, but I loved it. M. I was like, oh, my God. I'm not going. I'm not going. No one applauded it because as he'd acknowledged, no one fucking found it funny, but I was up, I had won. So I was like, Alex, you have to go. So you're M. I can't face these people. They didn't want

me. So I sent him up to be me. I was like, I'm pregnant. He was like, okay. So he went up to going to get it. Got it. The guy was like, Em, and he was like, yes. And it was all very awkward. And he came and sat back down, literally sat down.

You also won a free drink. And I was like, I don't want to go up there and ask for a diet Coke because it's like two pounds. You win a free drink. You can go up there and get a pint. That's four pounds.

Makes more sense. If I go and order a pint, I want to be like, that's inappropriate. She's clearly knocked up. So I had a bit of logic. Anyway, so he got, got his pint,

came back, sat back down. And then your man went, and in the second place, Alex. he had to go back again I was like em

he was like Alex it's so embarrassing his joke was also really shit but also kind of jokes his his was my mouth it was like

what makes you scream it's like that's quite good I like that I mean a couple of wives guys practical logical I like that so yeah

then he had to go back so that was already embarrassing enough and then he got my damn list you he's like I hate you it's like fair enough and then we carried on with the quiz Alex who won the fucking quiz you did who won the pumpkin competition Al

I think everyone else must have thought it was rigged because our jokes were clearly so shit I wish I had footage of that of Alex yeah Alex yeah it was literally like I can't tell you

this is why someone at the day saying you should you should do like comedy and I was like that is the biggest compliment ever but also something that fills me with so much dread it makes me want to die because the idea of standing there when nobody laughs and I got a taste of it on Monday night Alex and it's awful it's like you know a Venus fly trap when it just goes like that and then it's just gone that was my existence like I just felt like this big thing go over and then I was like that's me deceased now I no longer exist, I can't ever get out of this.

Pray for Alex. Yeah, probably. I don't think that was guaranteed not to win. Me too. I thought it was a short, surefire loss. Yeah. And it was not. It was not. So, I actually think this is probably my bad. And so I had my little sister's surprise

engagement party on Saturday. Right. So basically, for me, and I think a lot of other people who just aren't speaking up, The need for an app that describes the weather, the temperature is growing, okay? Because I checked the weather on the morning of the Saturday and it said 20 degrees and I said, oh, chilly. So I put on, you know, we've both got it, the knit from under the stories, the stripy knit. It is the heaviest knit. It's so heavy. I wore about the other day and I regret it.

It's so hot. I wore that. I wore a jacket over it. I wore leather, tight leather trousers and knee-high chunky boots, leather, chunky boots. I have never been so uncomfortable to the point that I thought, I actually, I need to go somewhere and just buy it. I'm just going to knit to Oxford Street and have to buy an outfit. I'm going to have to do something because I'm going to have a panic attack on that hot. So I think I need to sort an app that says to you, it's 20 degrees.

And what this means for you is don't, wear something. light don't wear a jacket this means it's quite hot it is quite hot the caribbean i'm going to just give you some helpful things that i remember things by the caribbean is like 28 degrees so it's only eight degrees above that so you would never wear leather trousers in the caribbean never never so that's something to remember then you remember and is it legally blonde and it's like what's your favorite day and she's like april 23rd not too hot not too cold just for a nice light jacket i would say that's about 20 degrees. Nice light jacket. Denim jacket, potentially. Might be, might be able to go away without one. 18 degrees, probably a nice, like, jacket weather. And a summer dress, but not like a knit and

Yeah. And then anything below 10 I'd wear a coat for. Anything between 10 and 16, anything, yeah, anything between 10 and 16, jule or a light jacket. Okay. I'll make this app. Except I'll just be this app. Just text me and I'll tell you what to wear. You're making my idea a little bit redundant, but okay. Sorry, and if I'm a good idea, make the app. Thank you. I'll buy it. and it was awful. I had a little frustrated cry in the toilets as a hurt, like just a pure frustration cry because I couldn't, the pants wouldn't roll down properly.

Like, I was so hot that my body had just swollen. Like, it is- Were your knickers all wet again? My knickers was soaked through. My body was so swollen. I couldn't get the pants off properly. And you know, and you're like, I was dripping.

I was literally dripping. And I had a little frustrated cry that I was like, get yourself together. It's a kind of obscene. I know. I know. It was awful. Oh my God.

That's so sad. You're in your, you're a soppy knickers, crying in the loaves. I mean, sobby knickers. That's going to be your nickname soon. Soffy knickers. Two weeks from the bounce. You've wet through. Okay.

Right. Well, let us introduce you to our podcast guest this week. This is Ed Jackson, who came and shared his. incredible story with us from an injury that completely changed his life to where he is today. We just loved him and this whole conversation and I'm so excited for you to hear it. I really hope you enjoyed this interview. It was absolutely fascinating. And if you do like the podcast, if you happen to like the podcast, we would absolutely love if you could rate us five stars, please, on Apple Podcasts. And if you do want to leave a nice review, that would be

absolutely delightful. If you don't want to do either, that's totally fine. Forget I said anything. Hashtag, no worries, kiss kiss. Without further ado, here's Ed. Thanks so much for being here. I'm going to jump straight in if that's okay. And I'd love to talk to you about, I guess, what changed your life. You had an accident in 2017, which did change everything. And I was wondering if you could tell us about that. Yeah, well, good to be here. Hi, hi. Pleasure to meet both.

Yeah, so jump straight in is quite an apt term because that's kind of what happened. I did not pick my words very carefully. For God's sake, one job. No, I wish I had, if I jumped in, it would have been fine. It would have been fine. It was the diving bit. It was the problem. Okay, just to give it a bit of context,

I was a professional rugby player for 10 years. Pretty lucky to be able to do that. was 27 recovering from a shoulder injury. I was playing down in Wales at that point. And I went round to a family friend's house to use their swim pools, like first hot day of the year. And they had a feature pool with a waterfall in one end. And I just, after lunch, just went down and dived in where the waterfall hit the water.

I couldn't see the bottom, but I just assumed it was deep because there was this big rock face. And to be honest, thinking back, and, you know, what made me think it was deep? I'm not sure exactly, but like, it happened. And I dived in, and it was only about three feet deep. and I was pretty heavy back then. I was about 18 stone and hit my head right on the top. And I just remember thinking, like, that was a hard, I hit my head really hard there.

And I was used to hit in my head. I was kind of played rugby for 10 years. But I was like, that was pretty special. But I hadn't lost consciousness. So I was like, I'll just try and stand up, check my head. So I don't bleed in their pool. And then when I tried to stand up, that's when I realized something was really wrong.

Because first of all, I was just confused, but I couldn't move. so I could flap around a little bit with my right arm but that was it but I was still underwater so quite quickly that confusion was like turned to panic and I was like shit I'm gonna drown luckily my dad was in the pool

and one of my friends and they came over and pulled me to the surface but I had lost all movement and sensation from the shoulders down and what happened I'd hit my head so hard on the top that the disc in between my C6 and C7 vertebrae which in layman's terms is like the bottom two of your neck so they're the ones that make you

if you put your chin to your chest or look straight up in the sky they're the ones that do that the disc had exploded and my neck had dislocated and I'd cut my spinal cord one of the bits of disc had lodged into the left hand side of my spinal cord so what was 12 minute millimeters thick was now six millimeters thick so that was what was rendering me completely paralyzed I was in a pool for about 40 minutes ambulance came luckily there was quite a few people there to help the paramedics to get me out of the pool but also luckily my dad being a retired doctor didn't try and drag me out the pool as your friends might have because my neck was in a very vulnerable position and most of the damage that happens to people with spinal cord injuries

happens after the accident like how they're handled so they held me still in the pool but despite doing that the ambulance journey to hospital I was like following it in my mind because I knew the area pretty well and I just remember feeling tired and being like I was just and I remember them trying to keep me awake but the next thing I know I'm in hospital and I didn't find out until a year later that sort of 15 minute journey or what I thought was 15 minute journey actually took two and a half hours because they had to pull over three times to resuscitate me so I actually died a few times as well which was weird there was no pearly gates or anything which just felt quite relaxing I was just sort of drifting off to sleep but it included shots of adrenaline so it's

quite serious resuscitations so it puts quite a different spin on how lucky I am to like even be here never mind sort of doing what I'm doing now is that because it cut it cut the blood supply to your head? It's not the blood supply. So your nervous system controls everything in your body. So like temperature regulation, heart rate, blood pressure. His blood pressure would be the same. So your brain can't tell your heart to keep beating properly.

So like everything gets messed up effectively. I was lucky that you hear the difference between complete and incomplete injuries. So I've technically got an incomplete injury because I've seen some recovery below the level of my injury. complete people think that that means you've severed you've cut your spinal cord in half but it doesn't because if you do that you're pretty much definitely going to die it means that you don't see any recovery below the level of your injury so I'd have done enough damage enough trauma to my brain to not be able to get the signals basically to keep going or like everything was getting messed up but luckily some very good paramedics obviously

saved my life and then by the time you're in hospital then you're kind of all right My dad said that he was the only one that knew there was a possibility I could die because he's a doctor and he was being very good at not letting that on. However, like, it was when I was lying in the pool looking at him, it was the first time I've ever seen him like rattled. So I knew it was pretty serious. But he said as soon as I got into hospital and actually as soon as I went into the operating theatre, I might have come out complete quadriplegic, couldn't move anything for the rest of my life. He knew then I wouldn't die because you rigged up to all the machines and they can resuscitate you. but it was the time between hitting the bottom of the pool

and getting to intensive, or getting to hospital, that was the dangerous time. Your poor dad. Oh, my God. That's, and poor you, obviously, as well. Yeah, yeah. As a doctor, and you've got, like, I think that, and you have to, like, work on someone that you love

or be with someone that you love and you know, oh, like, bless him. Was he with you in the ambulance when you were going to the hospital? No, no, no. They were waiting for me at the hospital, which is even worse. So, and by that point, Lois my then-fiance, now wife was in Cardiff still, luckily, so she didn't see any of it. And they had rung her and said, look, come over.

They didn't want her to be driving panicked. So like, Ed's gone to hospital. He's not dead. He's fine. Whatever. Come over. But then she got to hospital first. And she was like, where is he?

And they're like, we're like, we're not sure. They just knew the ambulance wasn't there, but they couldn't, they didn't know why. And then dad's thinking he's getting resuscated or he's died in the back of the ambulance. So they're waiting for two hours, two and a half hours when it was supposed to be 15 minutes. but luckily he knew all of this kind of the processes involved so he when he was deliberately sort of fibbing to the rest of the family just to keep everyone calm so where is he and he's like oh no it's okay they're probably doing checks and throughout the whole process then in hospital and the recovery it was really useful having a doctor on side not just to like not just to sort

of translate the medical talk coming from the doctors about me but also to filter that and send it to the family in a nice non-distressing way rather than getting the hard-hitting truths from the doctors. Yeah. So when you arrived in the hospital, did they take you straight in to surgery? And was that with the view of saving your life or was it like doing what they could? Or did they think like we can restore movement or do you know what I mean? Was there like a sort of plan that they were relaying to your family or to you before you went

in or was it just we're just going to do our best and see what we can help with? Yeah. that I think with neurological injuries the result of the operation only exposes itself over the period of time how much you can how much you recover it's not like you've broken a bone and they'll reset it and they know that it will take a few months to fuse the sort of roadmap there's not and they scan my neck and then rush me straight into the operating theatre luckily I was at southmead hospital in Bristol which is one of the leading neurological centres in the country and one of the New York's hospitals, but not only that, one of their top neurologists who wouldn't normally

be on call on a Saturday night, it just got back from two-week holiday in the Maldives. So I was really fortunate to have him and Mr. Neil Brewer, and the last thing I remember before, to sort of answer your question, before I went into intensive care, sorry, into the operation, when you're going under general anaesthetic, which I had done a few times before, because rugby's a stupid sport, and this wasn't my first operation. But they read your last right. They're like, you know, you need to know there's a chance you won't wake up from this because one in a million people are allergic to anesthetic. But it was the first time that I'd like, I realized, I looked him in the eye and I generally believed what he was saying. He was like, look, Ed, you may wake up

and we may have fixed you. You may wake up and nothing's changed. You may wake up and it might be worse. Or there's a chance you won't wake up from this. And I think I was still in shock at that point a little bit because apparently I said to him, he was like, you told me the weirdest thing that I've ever been told in that moment before someone goes in apparently i said don't worry just give it your best shot such a mind yeah so he chuckled it's all good me yeah just have a go um but effectively i woke up a day later um after a seven hour proper operation and just was in intensive care and then it was just working out what had actually happened um i'd forgot what had happened to start with i was going to say we were even like aware i was just like why am i in hospital the

I must have had a rugby injury but then it slowly dawns on you what's happened and when you woke up from that operation did you have any movement, any feeling? No, so I started by trying to move my feet hands and I had nothing apart from I could shrug my right shoulder. So yeah, it was pretty scary. It was hard to get a head around at first.

It's one of those things that you know you're like this happens to other people, not me. Like you hear about this happening. This is never actually going to happen to you. And there I was, like, completely paralysed on the shoulders down. And that stayed that way for over a week. Yeah, that's really scary. And I was told that that was it, basically, after a week,

after they do something called the AESA test, it's American spinal injury assessments every 24 hours. Then they give you a prognosis after a week. So initially, I was just hoping to get these my arms back so I could use a wheelchair. Okay. Never really contemplated anything more than that. That was the only thing I was hoping for.

If someone had offered me that then, I would have taken it. luckily no one did because I managed to get a little bit further than that oh my god I mean that is like I just can't imagine this this happens to you literally like that like in a split second and then you have to get your head around all of that

I just don't I think I just have to be sedated do you know it's weird like you it's not you can't get your head around it like when it's happening it's a massive process to get like that you go through and there's been lots of it's not been a straight line you know it's been lots of learnings along the way and ups and downs and I think you've just got to do whatever you can and eventually I realized after like a week of feeling sorry for myself and of just feeling like you know I thought

thoughts at night that I never want to think again you know I work with a lot of people through our charity who have clinical depression and have had suicide attempts and PTSD and things like that and now I understand what that feels like yeah I don't luckily I don't suffer from it but I have a much bigger level of empathy for people that do because there were nights where I was like I'm just going to be a burden on everyone like if I could finish it I would but luckily I couldn't move so I couldn't know anything about that anyway but it was it was dark but then I got to a point where the surgeon came in and said look at this is your you know we're fighting you've got to be fighting for your independence here not you're not going to walk again you've got to try and be

independent again and then that word independence made me realize that it wasn't just about me it was about my mum my fiancee like my family anyone who's going to have to look after me and even though there's a good chance i will i won't be independent i know that i've got to do everything i can to try and be independent because in six months a year's time if i look myself in the mirror and all i've done is lie there in bed feeling sorry for myself and now everyone's having to look after me i never be able to live myself but at least if I've tried as hard as I can I'll be able to look myself in the mirror so that's when it was after day seven I started spending every waking moment trying to move something like trying to wiggle something and just 48 hours later my toe flicked and it was just like

I mean that was it was incredible because I was trying there was a chance because the level of my injury I'd get used my arms and hands back but I'd been categorically told below the level of injury there wouldn't be recovery so then all of a sudden there was a sign that there was something still connected and something to work with and also been the best feeling literally in the entire world. Did anybody see it or were you by yourself? No, I was by myself and um so I'd spending it all the time just staring at my toes imagining moving them because obviously even when you close your eyes it feels like you're moving them because your body's not doesn't change that quickly and get used to it and then I was moving moving open my eyes and it moved and I was like I must have been a spasm

and then I did it again and again and I couldn't feel it but I could see it when my brain was sending the message it was moving and then I was just like mom get in here like I need an independent toe adjudicator she's like scrambling in the room from outside in the corridor and sure enough it was wiggling and then I just wouldn't stop wiggling because I was like I didn't want it to go away but then over the weeks and months more and more started coming back we just started pushing really hard and I realized it was more about it was just as much about a psychological recovery like staying in a positive mindset as it was the physical recovery because one fed the other and when I was in a good headspace my body would literally recover and I'd see progress and that was the

first time I sort of really it was really obvious to me about that mine body link and um something that's still you know not probably explored to the extent it should be it was definitely not so far in hospital and in these long term recoveries and it was tough it was you know it was really it was it was really hard for everyone obviously sort of six months year of trying to understand like we're trying to work out who I am like because I'd just been a rugby player up until that point you know and did you know all our glamping units have a resort quality Canadian made and eco-friendly bed since day one we have proudly partnered with colonna based mattress company haven ensuring you have the best sleep possible so it's just one more reason to visit us in the boreal forest you can also try out a haven mattress risk-free for a hundred

nights at haven mattress dot CA All of a sudden I'm needing help getting down the stairs or I couldn't even get over a curb and everyone's having to do stuff more for me. And I had a big sort of bit of an identity crisis. You know, I was focusing so hard on my recovery and my rehab, that was a distraction. But really, there was this bigger thing going on where it was like, what the hell does the rest of my life look like? Like, can I be of any use to anyone? And all of the things I'm doing now, I never imagined I'd be doing. And like finding that process of getting the slate swipe.

clean of everything you thought you were before and having to go right actually I'm not a rugby player I wasn't born a rugby player that's just what I did like so now who am I like what really gives me purpose what really makes me happy and having to start from square one again has been like the most amazing experience ever and think we wrong it's not easy living with spinal cord injury I have a lot of issues I have to deal with daily spasms bladder and bowel issues sexual function issues temperature regulation issues lack of sleep not being able to move properly, probably never run again, won't be able to kick a football around my kids.

But there's so much I can do. Yeah. And it was realizing that, going from that tipping point of, instead of a place of loss, of being really broken about what I couldn't do anymore, realizing how lucky I was to be able to, what are the things I could do?

Because I now knew people who couldn't do any of the things I could do. And we never look that way in life. We were always looking up and getting annoyed about what other people have got and what we haven't. And same as me before when I was playing. I was living the dream, like for a boy, my dream, playing professional sport. But I was still spent half the time stressed out about someone else playing my position

or getting another contract or, you know, and all of those sorts of things. I never really sort of sat back and appreciated how lucky I was to be doing in the first place. And that's been the biggest shift for me mentally has been, you know, actually just feeling lucky about the things that I used to take for granted. There was a big, there was a long time where I had to come to terms of the fact that I would never be able to walk up set of stairs again or drive a car again potentially or even feed myself, brush my own teeth, had to come to terms of that. So now daily, I'm appreciative of being able to do those little things. So my base level of happiness is so much higher than it used to be because before it

would take a lot more than that to make me happy. Not that I was a miserable person, but like for most people, like your spikes of happiness are when something out of your sort of normal daily routine goes well, whether you get a new job or have a baby or, you know, these sorts of things. for me now it's like this basic level of appreciation on a daily basis of the things that I can do and I couldn't do for a while and sometimes it's not until you lose stuff that you really start to appreciate it and it's relative isn't it everyone's level of gratitude and appreciation is relative and you have a reference point for you know a time like the lowest your lowest of like I don't know what's going to happen here I don't know if I'm ever going to be

independent so that totally make sense but I imagine because and rugby is this like I think anyway I don't really have any experience but like rugby is a very like it's a very community thing isn't it and if you're especially if you're playing professional rugby I imagine it becomes like it occupies your entire life and and as you were getting better like obviously it was amazing that you were getting better is that the right word yeah yeah improving and seeing some physical improvement and being able to walk again and stuff but then i guess you have to cope with yeah that that rugby is just like gone now that that whole something that you probably made your entire life has just gone and having to

like rebuild a new identity i can't imagine that would have been really difficult it was but in a weird way it was coming anyway so i was 27 and like length of rugby career is you're lucky to make it to 30 i think the average length for premiership career is only like three years because you see the starting team but actually underneath that it's called a 50 and a lot of them are losing their jobs or injuries or selection whatever it might be so i felt lucky to me at 27 i'd also had seven operations like the position i played was pretty physical so my body was wrecked anyway so i think if this had happened at 21 or 22 it'd been a lot harder to deal with emotionally for me because everything was ahead of me but i feel lucky to have done it for 10 years in the first place in that time

it was still a period of loss and it was still like what the hell am i going to do now a bit of an identity crisis but looking back I don't now regret not being able to play rugby anymore because I just see it as something I was really grateful to do and on top of that being part of the rugby community really helped me like through my accident it's such a supportive like they call it the rugby family you know like football's very tribal so your club will support you but other clubs will love it if one of the other clubs players get injured like that's just how it is it's quite but with rugby I was getting messages from all over the world from all clubs played against played with all these players I've never even met and that felt amazing it felt like it

wasn't just me getting better it was like I was doing it that you had this sort of wave of support behind you even though it was just you in a room with your physios it felt like there was this big level of support then on top of that like my access to the high level physios and doctors and all of those sorts of things since I've left because of knowing them through rugby and also just recovering from a spinal cord injury is spending hours and hours and hours in a physio room that's not something that's completely alien to me Like if it was spending hours and hours and hours in front of a spreadsheet, I'd probably be still in a hostel bed,

whereas other people would find that easy. Yeah. So there's definitely been a lot of benefits. Not playing again. I sometimes, I'm lucky to still be involved on the media side. So I go and report and do some presenting around the rugby, around the Champions Cup.

I'm going to Ireland for the internationals in November. That's fun. Yeah, so that's really fun. And that allows me to still see my mates and stay involved to a certain degree. I feel very fortunate to be able to do that. But I don't, and sometimes I'm there, and I'm like, I miss that buzz of the stadium and running, running out through a tunnel. Like, it's hard to replace when you're stood in a tunnel. Like, I remember the first game I played for Wasp against Harlequins was in the London doubleheader, and there was 60,000 people at Twickenham.

And you're in the tunnel and you're opposite, you're standing next to the team you're about to face. And you can hear the crowd, like, the noise of the crowd outside. You can, like, feel it coming down the tunnel. And you're just about to go into battle with the guy stood next to you. That sounds like that. When you run out, it's both terrifying and exciting at the same time, but also an emotion that's really hard to replace. So of course, you miss those moments.

But also in between that, you know, there's all the training in January, you know, on Monday and Tuesday mornings at 7 o'clock in the morning where you're like, I do not want to be here. Like all of those things that you don't miss, injuries, contract negotiations, having to move house all the time when you sign for different clubs. It's not all like a dream as it's made up to be. It can be tough too. Can I ask how your mental health and kind of like personality was when you were in hospital

and like at the early stages of your recovery because I know the medication can have a big impact on mood and irritability, obviously frustration. And you talk about not wanting to be a burden on your family and stuff. So I was just wondering, was that something that you were very aware of? like your mood and how, and your, not just your attitude, but it's really hot. I guess you don't have anywhere for context. My brother had a similar accident a few years ago

where he broke his neck and his back. And I just, I remember the mood being, his mood being really hard for him to have to control. Because you don't get to hide. You don't get to be by yourself and just sit and be angry. So I wonder, was anger ever a part of it? Did you go through any process where it was just like, I have to get through this and I'm going to be a bit of a horror,

but I'm going to, you know it's going to end up and end inspiringly or was it something that you wanted to remain cheerful and positive as you were going through it yeah so it's like i said before it's not a linear progression like there was times where you're angry there's times where you're happy a lot of the time it was during the day i felt very guilty for what i was putting my family through emotionally but it's very common to take it out on the people that are closest to you and be angry and irritable like that's the same in any day life like people have stressed you often take out of the ones you're loved whether they're there just because they're there or for some weird reason that's

the case and you see it very commonly with traumatic injuries it happens you get a lot there's a high divorce rate and it's not just because the person is now in a different situation physically it's because that the person who's had the injury will often push away their loved ones which is for me it was more I felt guilty so during the day I would hide how it upset and angry I was and just put on this brave face for my family but then at night I was really in a really dark place so it was it was black and white and when people were with me I was okay because I was pretending to be okay and sometimes that manifests into you actually being okay but at night when I was

by myself went because in hospitals they've got to leave at a certain time actually there was a couple of wards I was on where they were great the nurses would like let lower sleep and like pull a mattress in for her and sort of break the rule break and bend the rules. But it's not been linear. Like things have been frustrating. There's been good times and bad times. A lot of it has often been tied into what progress I'm making at the time.

And recovering from a neurological injury is really slow. It's a really long process. And one of the things I realized is to stay positive, I almost had to see progress. But you would go weeks and months sometimes and feel like you hadn't made any progress. And you're like, right, is this it? Because you don't know when it's going to stop. So it could stop at any point. and you just push and push and see how far you can take it.

So I would make sure I was filming every movement. Like Lois became my physio basically, but she would film everything I was doing. And even though it hadn't felt like you'd move forward for three weeks, you then look at a photo or a video of you trying to move your finger three weeks ago, and you have made progress, and that would help keep you in a positive mindset. And actually that's spilled over into everyday life now.

Like you have these big dreams and aspirations in life, but a lot of the time you sort of hang your hat on it, and you're not happy until you get there. But that's dangerous because you get there and then you're happy for a second and then it just moves on like the hedonic treadmill. You've got to enjoy the process. I know it's a cliche, but that was the case for me.

So I moved my goals from walking again but then waking up miserable every morning when I wasn't walking again to let's try and move the third finger on my left hand a little bit more today and just work on that. And then I'd do it and it'd feel like I've achieved something. And then you add all of those little wins up and it gets you to the big change.

changes. But the mental side of things like staying in a positive headspace, a lot of the things I developed were using distractions. So music, one of the big ones for me was keeping a diary. So I kept voice notes initially when I couldn't move. And then an iPad was hung over my bed, so I'd tap it with my hand. It was good rehab as well. But that was to offload at night. Thoughts are in my head to help me sleep. Actually, that was what has ended up with me writing a book. So that was supposed to be completely It's actually my next question. I was like, I really hope you've published that. Yeah. Well, I, that, I was, um, no one was supposed to see that, not even Lois or anything. It was private and then I woke up one afternoon because I'd fall asleep sometimes in the afternoon because neurological tiredness is a weird thing. Like once you, you might not even be moving at all, but just trying to move things

after an hour, you'd just pass out of sleep. And one of my mates was at the end of my bed, reading through my notes of my diary, obviously, as your mates do. And he was like, I was like, oh, yeah, that's private. consent he was like two things one you're a fucking weirdo two you should like publish some of this or post some of these things to make it to help other people who might be in hospital for a long time a lot of it was just the practicalities of spending months in hospital the day-to-day process of it I was really reluctant like back then I was a pretty insular typical bloke like don't show any

weakness in fact it's bad with rugby it's even worse because you kind of you're brought up to not, if you're injured, don't show the opposition, you're showing any pain. And so it's why rugby players, and men in general find it more difficult to be vulnerable because of that stigma attached to it. So that's the headspace I was in at the time. So I was like, no way.

And also I'd had like, I had an Instagram account, but I think I had two posts that were both of my dog at that point. And I had like four followers, but all being family members. So I was like, this completely alien to me. But then they persuaded me to do it that it might help someone.

So we did post them. And I didn't look at the posts. I didn't want to see the responses, I'd just post, like, and then ignore it. Then Lois, my wife came to me after a week and was like, you should see what's happening, people are responding. And there were 15,000 people following this blog in one week of posting things. And I was like, panic mode, like what is going on. But then she started showing me some of the responses from people. And some of them were people who had been through similar situations were offering advice. So they were reaching out to me,

some of them being former Paralympians, all of these sorts of people. So they became an amazing crutch for me and also an avenue where I could be completely honest with someone because I was still trying to protect my family from my honest emotions. I didn't want to say, I wanted to kill myself last night. You know, that's not going to be productive for them. But I wanted to tell someone and all of a sudden I had these people going, yeah, that's completely normal. I want to do that every night when I was in hospital and you're like, okay, that's amazing. I learned the power of like sharing and being vulnerable and how important that is, probably to the point. now where I overshare things when my mates

be like shut up I don't need to hear it that as too much detail but also there were other people messaging me saying this is really helping me through my own situation and it wasn't just spinal cord injuries it was psychological situations it was people with who were going through

tough times with depression or whatever it might be and they were saying your attitude towards your injury is helping me put perspective on mine which rightly or wrongly and actually wrongly people often don't see their issue as bad as someone else is and especially when it's a psychological issue

and they saw me being paralyzed and they were like well actually he's doing what he can or staying positive half of the time maybe I should because mine's but as we know and I definitely know now with the work I do for the charity psychological psychological injuries or issues or traumas can be way worse than physical ones so but anyway it was the first time there was something positive

coming out of my accident for other people and that was like an amazing feeling because I thought I was just completely useless now for life like I was just going to be a burden for life and all of a sudden this was helping other people and I kind of took that and in a weird way like to rewind from now running a charity and all this sort of things

I think the first seed of that was it felt great to me to help others so it was a tool for my own recovery to try and then help more people to the point now it's got out of hand and, you know, we've got a charity and all those sorts of things. But actually, if I'm honest, I'm not like Mother Teresa. Like, if it pained me to help other people, I probably wouldn't do it. It actually felt it was part of my recovery.

It was me finding purpose again. Yeah, it just had a dual benefit. Yeah. I'd love to, if you're comfortable talking about it, what impact the accident had on your relationship with your then-fiancee, now wife, Lois. it must have been difficult for both of you in very different ways. Was it, I mean, I imagine it obviously wasn't smooth sailing, but were there any really low points where you thought, like,

I don't know if this is going to be able to last, or was it like, no, this is just... Yeah, I mean, most of the concerns were in my mind to start with. I think there was a conversation about five or six weeks in where I said that she had to leave me, you know, because I was like, you didn't sign up for this. And she's just been a rock through the whole thing. In fact, I couldn't imagine doing it without someone.

And I work with a lot of people sort of mentoring and just in contact with people who have recently got injured. And one of the first things that I will look for is have they got a partner, or a really supportive sibling? And then I'll know, you know, actually I can relax a bit in certain areas because it makes such a big difference. And it's actually just as important, like we spoke about before, the pushing away of the close relatives or family members or partners.

It's making them realize that they are a massive, they're going to be a massive part of your recovery. So don't do that, even though the urges might be there. So I said she should leave. She told me just shut up. And then she actually became, the NHS is an amazing thing. You know, it saved my life. And at the acute end, they're the best in the world.

Like, they'll save your life. like if you want to if you're in a life-threatening situation you're in the right country but resources wise recovery long-term rehab they just aren't the resources there the individuals are there but they just can't so she at lowest being sporty like she learned from the physios and she would give me the extra hours of physio in between that really did make a big difference so I think in a way it brought us almost brought us tighter we were so reliant on each other and then we've been through this process of like starting the charity together but there was a tough time when I'm moved out of hospital it was about I came out of hospital after four months and it was probably six or seven months I'd moved back in my parents we were living there still in a wheelchair and um we'd like start that obviously the sexual side of things has had kind of gone out the window and we were trying to rediscover that what are the options and all of those sorts of things and there always is there always are options but it's going to be different and it's going to be difficult and I know she was struggling with it as just as much as I was but

she didn't want to upset me and it got to this point where she was putting on a brave face but actually and I was like you know it's interesting talking to her about it and she's written a she's written a chapter in the book about her side of things but I was off on this mission then to like with the charity and to like well the charity hadn't spawned them but to help other people and I was 100% focused on my rehab so I was just in the physio room and she's there just kind of helping out she's had to leave her job she's just and there's also this stress is going on said that there were times when we were rediscovering that sex part that she felt like she wasn't with me anymore because I smelled different. I was like a different person, obviously physically

very different and it wasn't, she knew it was me and she still loved me but there was this weird feeling in her head that and so she actually went and she came and eventually plucked up the courage to speak to me and then went and spoke, saw her, saw someone about it to work it out and I was like, look, you've got to just do whatever you want to do and I'm really sorry that I was just so single track-minded into my own recovery that and she was putting on a brave face so it wasn't obvious that she was struggling but that was just an example of from the outside you know we're pretty open about that and actually we speak about it quite a lot now because it's one of those areas that happens to most couples after something like this but isn't spoken about very much but after

that after we work through it all now we're better than it than ever you know but it's showing that it's not just and from the outside looking in we might have seen like everything's happy and great and whatever but it's just not the case you know and it's not going to be a linear path and it's just having the ability to be completely open and honest with each other because she was she was she let it grow to a point where it really started affecting her because understandably she was like well it's not about me you know I can't come out and start saying I've got problems like ed's got this spinal cord injury you know and it's actually course it's about her and when we're helping other people now if you the support network

often gets overlooked and actually sometimes you can have bigger wins for the individual by supporting the support network because they'll only be as strong as their support network but the support network don't feel like they're in a position to go hang on I need help because they'll think it looks selfish but actually often after these things happen it'll be a mother a husband a son a wife going through it worse than the individual psychologically so it's helping that person can often have a bigger impact than actually helping the individual. Well, you've got something to focus on and they just have to focus on you. I guess as well, like it's a massive change for your parents as well, like, because you move,

what did you do at home? Did it, did you, I mean, you moved back in, but did you make like a hospital physio, like situation at home and just like completely turn your parents' lives like into something new, not necessarily a bad thing, but like redecorated basically. Yeah, basically. Well, I was quite fortunate that my dad had. built the house three years before with my 90 year old granddad in mind so there was like double hand rails everywhere there was rolling showers like it was like almost purpose so lucky so it was kind of that's why I managed to discharge myself from hospital after four months a because I was going home to live with a doctor but be because the house was set up for it didn't have to wait for those

adaptations to be made but then obviously you're living with your parents right so that's got a shelf life from both ways you know and um but it was amazing at the time because The main reason I wanted to discharge myself from hospital quickly was the food. There's a photo of me in my wheelchair with this big double fridge, like in front of me, just like, this hospital food is so bad. But they set up the ground floor, like converted his office into a bedroom and there's a shower room down there. But obviously on the first night, I was like really wanted to sleep in my own bed. So they found me in the middle of the night. I'd crawled up the stairs, like, or bum shuffled up the stairs.

But I was only made it halfway up and got to the left. because it's like an upside down house there's a living room so downstairs like office and bits then there's the living room on the middle floor then bedrooms

I'd made it to the living room and I was trying to crawl up to the top but then from then on we just like developed a method of a bit of help getting up the stairs and but that transition back into normal life was actually it was all you wanted

to leave hospital but when you do it was weird it was actually quite tough because in hospital you're in a bit of a bubble and it doesn't feel like the real world then all of a sudden there's that kettle you used to be able to reach but can't anymore that you can't get to your own bedroom and like actually how impaired you are

becomes more obvious but the thing I was quite fortunate about is when I left hospital then actually my rehab in terms of physio contact and stuff could go up because I had access to all these physios through rugby in hospital you're not allowed to bring in outside support so I was relying on lowest to do the extra bit. So when I left my recovery, my progress started accelerating. But it was about six months with my parents and then we actually live at the top of the hill now, so not far away. One of our neighbours came around and said I just converted a couple of cottages up there. Do you want to come and take a look? Because he knew we'd want our own space and they probably would as well. The plan was to move back to London, but I think after spending sort of a year down back where

I'm from, it was kind of like, actually it's quite nice down here. I was desperate to leave Bath when I was like 21 I was this place is tiny everyone knows each other's business like get me to London but now when I've moved back it's actually you can appreciate a bit more can I ask about that I'm just thinking like when you're so you get home and and all this progress which is really slow but it's continuous and then obviously there is an end point with the progress was that really difficult mentally when you hit that end point and realize like this is now how I'm this is what I'm going to how I'm going to be for the rest of my life now yeah I mean they so they tell you've got a two year window and then after that you don't

make any progress okay but actually that's I mean in a way that's true because the majority of your progress will happen in at the start and then slow down but actually it's not true it's only because they can provide care for two years so they don't want you to think that you if you could recover in three years three four and five and six whatever but i speak to people who are 20 years into their injury still seeing changes oh wow okay so it's it's never to not put not keep trying i think it's you've got to have a life as well right so the first year i was just hammering rehab yeah and then after that you're like that's how i got into the mountaineering side of things i was like i need goals to aim for to push towards to carry on training and rehabbing but i need

to get on with my life so i can't just live my life in a physio room but even this year so I've got no temperature or pain sensation in my right leg and or right side and I walked out of the house not even that long ago a couple of months ago and I was like that's weird my right foot feels cold on the floor because normally if you walk in bare feet on the cold floor my left foot would feel cold my right foot would just not feel anything and the sense and then I was like pinched myself and the sensations just in overnight has come back to like 70% really so there's still change is happening like even now obviously I know I'm going to be limping around for the

rest of my life and that's fine but I'm still hopeful that I will carry an improving to a certain degree there's also so many breakthroughs that are happening in medicine continuously I'm an ambassador for charity called Wings for Life who are Red Bull's charity so the guy who founded red bull his godson broke his neck in a motocross accident and because of the power behind Red Bull they pump like hundreds of millions of pounds into spinal cord injury research to try and find a cure

and some of the projects that they're working on you know it's just a matter of when is it? You know it's just a matter of when they have a cure for spinal cord injury so things like if I could sort out like toilet's the main one it's just the admin behind it is so annoying

just making sure that you're not you're not going to wet yourself effectively and it happens every now and again But you have to wear like bags, bags sometimes and think when you're out and about. Is that because you've got no sensation of the bladder? It's because I do have limited sensation. So when I need the toilet,

and then I've also got weakened, like, pelvic floor muscles and everything. So when I feel I need the toilet, I've got like two or three minutes to get to a toilet. Right. So when I'm at home, it's fine. Because I'll always be able to get to a toilet. Or even when I know where I'm going, like I can go to the toilet and then drive somewhere.

If I'm going to the pub or a mate's house, it's fine. But when you're out and about, spending a day in London or whatever you need to make sure you've got a bag on just so not you're not caught short and have those accidents and also it's just peace of mind then so you can relax I'm quite lucky because a lot of people in my situation have to catheterize they actually have to put a catheter inside themselves whenever they need to go to toilet I don't need to do that but it's still just admin heavy the movement side of things is a weird one because you just get you do get used to it yeah even people in wheelchairs after a certain level of

time they'll say they'd rather have their bladder and bowels back than walk their legs because they're used to being in a wheelchair and they're good at it now so that's the funny thing about the mind like the stages of grief and eventually working to acceptance and how long that takes but you can almost at the start it feels like the end of the world it really does and I think if someone had told me when I was you know before my accident I was going to you know not be able to use my left leg properly not be able to use my left hand properly have spasms not sleep properly, any one of those things, I'd be like, well, that's going to ruin my life. But actually, none of them really bothered me that much anymore because, yes, they increase

admin, but it could have been so much worse. But when it first happens to you, like, it's all over. This is the end of it. But your brain will come around. Like, human brain is an amazing thing. Like, it will come around. As long as you can stay in the fight and not give up, it will come around to a point where there's a certain level of acceptance.

And I realize how lucky I am to be able to live a fulfilling life and be independent. and some people don't have those opportunities. So I can only speak for myself. But that's certainly what I've found. Yeah. We're good at adapting humans, aren't we? We are really good at adapting. I didn't know if I'm not good at.

I was thinking that. I don't think I'm very adaptable, but then maybe I don't know. You don't know until you're in that situation, I think. I would have never said I would have been able to cope with this. But you went from the hospital, I mean, you went from hospital,

and, you know, when you said you got home, you were bomb shuffling up the stairs to get upstairs. And then within a year, you were, wait, was it within a year that you, but I mean, still, the accident happened five years ago and you've now climbing mountains. Like, that's huge.

Yeah. Like, I mean, how? I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, so six months, I was in a wheelchair, nine months I managed to get out of the wheelchair and was walking a bit, and then one year mark I climbed Snowden.

And it was like, I wanted to do something to send a message to other people who were in hospital that just because you've been told one thing, doesn't necessarily mean that is going to be the case. I've been told he wasn't going to walk again. And I know sometimes that is the case, but I think if I didn't have that outside influence of my dad

and other people who were getting in touch saying, no, keep fighting, I might have given up. And if I hadn't tried, I'd still be in a wheelchair because you need to send the messages from your brain. But I wanted to send a message. I thought I'd just sort of climb a bit up Snowden, but at least if people saw me on my feet, then it would be enough.

And because there's a little bit of a shop window with rugby, X rugby and the sort of thing, I know that it would make some press and then that might send a message to someone in hospital, just one person for them to keep trying. But then I turned up on the start line and in the blog, I'd open it up to anyone who wanted to come and join in thinking a couple of people might turn up. Turned up on the start line. There were 70 people there that I didn't know. So I was like, shit, I'm going to actually have to get to the top now, aren't I?

Yeah. Peer pressure. Yeah, the peer pressure. And it took like nine hours and it was one of the hardest things I've ever done but it was so unbelievably rewarding like everyone who came to join in were there for their own reasons

and a lot of them were going through shit as well and it was just walking and talking and sharing and overcoming something that I didn't think I was ever going to be able to do and then I got completely hooked on it so just kept within six months I was in the Alps climbing something three times higher and now five years later

of sort of I'm the highest ever spinal cord injury climbing stuff in Nepal and so kind of got a bit out of hand what's next are you going to do Everest yeah Alex wants to do Everest so you can take her up I've done the height of Everest twice once my parents staircase during lockdown which took four days that was unbelievably tedious but we managed to raise 50 grand so it was definitely worth doing and then again recently there's a spiral ramp particularly in my mate did another fundraiser for a guy called Ed Slater, who's a Gloucester player who's just been diagnosed with motor neurone disease.

And we did that in one go. And that took 31 hours, like, no, without stopping. And it was 170 miles of horizontal. So it's all stupid. And it's quite funny. I do some interviews after us. They're like, so now you've climbed the height of Everest. You're going to go and do the real thing?

I'm like, there is no comparison walking up and down your parent's staircase and actually being on Everest. I love that you think there might be, but no, not ready for that yet. But this is a funny one for me I've got into the more climbing technical side of mountaineering and I do it's still the highest mountain in the world and there's that allure to it

and in terms of like sending a message to the spinal cord community it would be a powerful one would I be physically capable of doing it I'm not sure like probably not now after a year of training maybe do I want to do it at the moment I don't know like there's other mountains

that are weirdly more appealing because of the technical side of things but also the state of what's going on on the Everest at the moment with the overcrowding and the mess of base camp and like it will get sorted out. I'd like to think eventually. Morally, I don't want to add to that until it's sorted out. But the answer is I have no idea.

That's why you're ruling out Everest. I know. Rather of actually climbing the thing. Yeah, I don't want to make a mess of the mountain. It's probably just an excuse really. It's a good one. It makes it sound really nice. All the time.

challenges I do I go into not knowing if I'm going to be able to complete them or not because otherwise I don't see it as a proper like adventure or a challenge so and half of them I don't I failed on just as many as I've taken on and I love that sort of element of it what have you failed at so there's a mountain called grand paradiso which was my first technical mountain that I ever tried which is a 4,000 metre mountain in Italy and by technical it's like it's got ladders over crevasses and you wear ice axe you have ice axes and crampons and stuff sounds horrible a lot of fun but it's took me three times to eventually get up that and then mont blanc i still haven't climbed but i've never actually i've been to do it twice the first time there was it was storm so no one was

was allowed in the mountain the second time there's big insurance fuck up because of brexit so i wasn't allowed on the mountain either so there wasn't technically failing on the mountain but and then earlier this year um i don't know if i'd call it a failure i was trying to break the height record for spinal energy which we did but we didn't get to the top of the mountain it was a mountain called Himlung Himal in the pool, 7,000 metre mountain, and we ended up getting stuck on there for 40 hours and had to spend a night at 6,000 metres and minus 30 without tents, food or water, so we really nearly died. And you can't tend to regulate properly anyway.

Got rescued by a helicopter. It was pretty full on. Was Lewis with you? No. She did no interest in that stuff. She's like, she's like two nights for ten. Can you just have a rest? Well, we were in a place that was completely off grid, so there was no connection to the outside.

world so for a month or three weeks she didn't hear from us luckily i'd kill you because it was like yeah i'm glad you didn't hear it hear from us but it was pretty it was pretty gnarly experienced like it was the closest it was we were pretty close to not making it so we had to keep each other awake during the night because we knew that if we fell asleep with none of us would wake up so it's pretty full on experience do you do you like the and i'm guessing maybe it's because you're a professional sportsman i noticed this in all the friends of mine who I know through Helpful Heroes who've come through with life-changing injuries

and it's just like they consistently put themselves in more danger and it's, I can't get the rationale. Do you think it's like part of your... I think maybe a bit of a part of what you're like anyway but I'm definitely more risk-taste, I say risk, but I do more scary things now than I would have even considered doing before my accident. I think one of the main reasons is you realise

how short life can be because I survived 10 years of professional rugby but then it was a Sunday afternoon in a swimming pool that nearly killed me so you can wrap yourself and cotton all your whole life but then you just get hit by a bus tomorrow you know you don't know when that day's coming so you want to live I know it's a cliche but you want to live

every day you know you actually want to go out there and do stuff and try stuff and experience the world and then once you open that kind of worms you realize how much more's out there and you meet more people that are like that and it's just like a never-ending thing but at the same time I think earlier this year when we nearly died on the mountain I did I would it's a

it's an experience I would never choose to repeat but it's one I don't regret because it was quite formative for me coming back and readjusting things in my life and I drifted off track a little bit and in terms of following the things that really give me purpose and I need to put more time into the charity

and things like that but I also made me realise I don't want to die like I've got I've got I I like my life. I like I like being alive. I think I've still got lots of things to do and I don't want to, it's not fair on the people that I love and that love me. So there is a way of doing crazy challenges that aren't necessarily going to kill you. And the remoteness of the mountain we climbed is what nearly killed us. So the helicopter couldn't get to us until the next day. So that's why we had to survive a night. If you just climb a mountain closer to Kathmandu, that's not a problem.

And there's certain mountains that avalanches are risk and rock falls a risk. And it doesn't matter how good you are climbing, they might kill you. Now, like, could I responsibly, or could I justify going and taking on stuff like that? This situation, before I was just hammering away and just going, right, what's next? Don't care how dangerous it is. I was supposed to have a go at the Matthorn this year, but they had a couple of people die from Rockfall, and I was just like, no, that's not fair. If I go, you know, if I go into a situation where I know there's a percentage chance of me dying that's out of my hands, that's not fair. So it has changed the way

I think about things I mean God knows you've come close enough That's probably what I climb Everest on a staircase It's much less dangerous Than you have the real thing Quite boring I imagine Oh my God I would get so monotonous

Over and over again Yeah but there's a safety in that There's a nice Oh there's also a fridge at the bottom So that was useful Yeah exactly about Everest How is not just your accident But the work that you do now

With the charity that you run Change the way that you want to live your life now? Probably sort of, I mentioned it earlier, but like the perspective shift. Like actually changed the way I want to live my life now. And I think that's realising, realigning myself with following things that I find purpose in

and following my gut rather than my head. Like before I had this five, 10 year plan or I was terrified of what was around the corner. Like when I was playing rugby, I was like, what am I going to do after I finished playing? And I was like, in my head, I was like, right, I've done this degree. I'm going to go into the city and do this

and then when I'm 40 I'll be doing that when I'm 50 I'm doing that when I'm 60 doing that and then whatever and that was in my head now it's like I'll just take every day as it comes like follow my gut actually release the pressure from myself of like actually achieving

certain things and actually let the universe take over a little bit in a weird way and that's quite counterintuitive and it's definitely not the way I would have approached life before because that adds a level of uncertainty and therefore anxiety but once you really trust and relinquish control into that process, but you still stick to your values of working hard,

being nice to people, nurturing relationships, but follow your heart and follow your gut and do things you're passionate about. Everything else seems to fall into place and look after itself. And that's been happening. I couldn't tell you what exactly I'll be doing next year or the year after. The only constant at the moment is the charity. But I'm excited by that. Before that used to terrify me. So I think it's just living life, relinquishing a little bit more control. That's one of the main differences that's happened. One of the main realisations I've made, I think. Thank you. Thank you. We'll leave all of your details in the show. Is your book out? Yeah, yeah. It came out 18 months ago. It's called Lucky. Lucky. And if you can put up with my

voice any longer, it is unordable, but I narrated it. Perfect. We will leave the link for your book and your socials. And your charity. Thank you very much. Yeah. Thank you so much. Should I delete that is part of the ACAS creator network. Did you know all our glamping units have a resort, quality, Canadian-made and eco-friendly bed? Since day one, we have proudly partnered with Colonna-based mattress company Haven, ensuring you have the best sleep possible. So it's just one more reason to visit us in the Boreal Forest. You can also try out a Haven mattress risk-free for 100 nights at Haven Mattress.

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