Should I Delete That? - Lorna Luxe on marriage, eating disorder recovery & life on Instagram

Episode Date: July 14, 2024

This week on the podcast, Em and Alex are joined by OG influencer Lorna Luxe! Lorna's reign on Instagram has long been symbolised by aesthetic perfection, which, as she explains in this conversation, ultimately stems from addictive tendencies. Lorna started as an air hostess, but as her eating disorder began to take over,her ability to work was impacted. Losing the job that was her whole identity meant she had to work out another way to find herself. Lorna talks us through this journey to recovery, all things beauty, ageism, the choice to be child-free and her relationship with Mr Luxe!Follow Lorna on Instagram @lornaluxeFollow us on Instagram @shouldideletethatEmail us at [e-mail] by Daisy GrantMusic by Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

For the people that have been along the journey, they're loving it, it's great. Like, we love to see this progression. But I think for some people that maybe just popped in, they're like, oh, she's not relatable. Nothing about me is that relatable, I don't think, because I'm not doing all the relatable things. If you're listening to this, it's because I have announced that I am pregnant, which is amazing to finally share with you all. I've been sitting on this little secret, which is getting less and less little by the day for a really long time. But I've not been sure as ever about when I'm going to announce it. And I keep chickening out, hence this little bit at the top. I didn't

want to say it in the GBA and then have it as a concrete time pressure. So if you're listening to this, it's because I've been very, very brave. And I've told you all, mine and Alex is amazing news, boy Alex, although let's be honest, girl Alex is as involved as anybody else. So, we'll be back next week to talk about it in detail and catch you all up unfortunately hypermises has been a very very big part of the last few weeks which i think has probably been why i have been a bit hesitant to talk about it so we'll get into all about next week as for now let's just get on with with with normal scheduling hello welcome back to should delete that i'm like slight and i'm clarkson how you doing now i'm good i'm good okay

No, I had to think about it. And I was like, I'm actually, I'm okay. Okay. Well, you're home. I don't know. You're home. That's good. I'm home and that's good. Possibly never going on holiday ever again in my entire life. But that's okay. I've made peace with that. That's exactly. Yeah. Yeah. You know me. Yeah. Optimism. No, it was, no, I'm good. I'm home. I'm home. It was bad. It was bad. Yeah. It's so awful, though, saying it was bad, though, isn't it? I feel awful because it's like, I know it's like, it's good to be able to go away.

It's such a privilege to be able to go away. And I know that. And like, you know, we did eat some nice food. Well, we like wolfed down some nice food and got indigestion from it. But like, I don't know. It feels awful to say it, but it was quite rough. No, I don't think it's awful to say it. And I think I suspect that when you did say it on Instagram, you had so much support in your DMs from people being like, oh, my God, thanks.

I wish people talked about this because no one talks about it. Yeah. It's so hard. to have your baby not at home. Having a baby at home is one thing. Having your baby away from home is like, what the fuck is all the stuff that we need? Not here. It is so hard. And it's crazy how much you rely on these stupid little gadgets and little toys and there's just all this like crap that you're like, oh my God, this tiny little thing. And yet he needs so much. Or is it him or is it me? I don't know, but we need a lot. And it's just, yeah, yeah. He's going through

something and we don't know what, possibly teething, but I can't see teeth. That's the worst bit. The worst pit of teething is before you can see the bloody teeth. Is it? When they're all, yeah, agony and by the time you can see them, they're fine. They're over it. Oh, my God, because the car, ah, I don't know if I sent you the video. I just keep sending the video to people being like, what is this? Like, because he's just going, ah, ha, ha, ha, oh, oh, oh.

Oh my God, it cuts straight through to my nerves. Like, I can't. The noise. It won't last forever. That's all I can say out. It's not going to last forever. Well, I'm, I'm, that's good because I'm, like, I keep thinking to myself. it's just a phase it's not his personality it's just a phase it's not his personality because

if it is his personality like it's going to be tough no no no no no sorry sorry if arlo's personality was that of a six-month-old arlo she would be shit-crack she there's no way i'd want to hang out with her as much as what i do no they've become they get they know they have personalities really you know you can see little glimmers of them and little and you can kind of tell and yeah maybe he's going to be a sensitive king like fine but generally speaking they're like little idiosyncrasies and their little quirks and their little like the magic of them that comes in time that comes and they start moving and talking and stuff hang in there i promise i promise it gets better i promise don't worry he won't be rubbish what if he does this for life or if he just whines for life you know

this moan well i mean you might you know he might that i know i know someone he's very closely related to who personally loves a loan you have a point i don't disagree but at the same time like two of us in the same household we can't do that like there's no no no opposites i do feel it i promise i promise it gets easier like i keep having because i'm in the all the man at the moment and i keep having these flashbacks to last year when i was so like touched out and overstimulated and overwhelmed and i'm just it's night and day like it's night and day that that's the thing it's like overstimulated but like keep thinking to myself and I feel overstimulated it's like even like the dog barks

I feel like like in my head like I can't cope with it like the I mean you saw me explode like a million times last year when you would ask me to do like the tiniest thing for the pod and I'd be like blah blah I can't and it's like it's because it's like one more thing it's like you just can't handle it yeah it is over simulation isn't it but then I was like yeah god I need to be able to handle this whining better but I just can't I said today like I'm really sorry it's just it's just like it feels like it touches a nerve I feel like everything is touching a nerve you are programmed as his mother to feel that like to feel it when arlo cries I've said this so many times when arlo cries I feel rage like I don't feel like oh my baby's crying

I feel this primal rage not with her but with the world that's making her sad I'm like oh my god I can't my baby and I literally get rage and it's so bad because it's like it's like I'm annoyed, I'm, no, I'm furious with the world for making her sad. And it's like, that's not rational. She's crying because she's dropped her milk. It should be fine. The poor world. What does the world do? I know. But yeah, I agree. It's visceral. It's a visceral reaction. It's horrible. But anyway, we, I wasn't supposed, we weren't supposed to talk about babies. No, just kidding. We used scrap that. We cut that. So it's fine. What about you? Any goods or bads for me.

Okay, so, well, okay, so the awkward, I can't tell you yet. I, for God's sake. I know. So, the awkward, no, the awkward is, is, uh, dependent. It will be shared, but its timing depends on something else. So I, I know, I know, I know, I know, I'm going to have to tease you with it. Oh, so I can't tell you just yet. But suffice to say, this is genuinely, and I don't say this lightly.

You'll know by next week, I'm sure, latest the week after. But it was genuinely the most embarrassing thing that's ever happened to me. And I mean, like, I have been literally scraped up off the floor because I melted. And I melted over 24 hours. It's been awful. It's been awful. Oh my God. I'm coming through it now.

I was going to say what I've been through. But it sounds way worse. Oh, Al. That was nothing. Yeah. No, that's not nothing. I don't want to invalidate your trauma because that was something. This sounds wrong.

This was bad. This is something that I'll leave it at this. As long as I live, I think I'm always going to struggle to look my mum in the eye going forwards. Oh my God. What? Okay, okay, we need to, we need to record it on video when you tell me this because it needs to live, unless it's like, unless it's like not video, Instagram, I'm very nervous about this being on the internet, but for our own private use, I will let you, I love that I'm like, I'll tell the podcast, I'll tell they're like tens of thousands of people who listen to the podcast. I really don't think I should put this on the internet guys, but by all means, let me just pull up a chair. I am so excited

I am so excited to hear this I just can't even imagine I've got a few thoughts but I don't want to spoil I don't want to do the guessing game I'm going to wait I'm going to be patient I'm so excited okay well I'll see you next week

to fill you in okay I can't wait that's my awkward though and it's enough to ride off for the rest I can cash in on that until I die oh my God I just can't even okay I'll give you an awkward of my own oh good

two from the same sitting oh good I went to get my nails done last week which is really annoying because already they've chipped and they're gel which is so annoying because usually I get like a good five weeks out of my gel anyway. Shalak or biab

crucially shalak but very relevant your question okay interesting I'm in the nail salon and the lady's doing my nails and she says my nails have gone to shit recently I don't know why she's like you need biab because they're weak and they've like split

like you know they split like cracks right down on the on the bed and it's horrendous she's like you need biab and i was like so this was last this is on the saturday and i was going to my sister's for barbecue and i was already late and i was like does that take more time than shellac and she was like yeah it's going to take about 20 more minutes so i was like oh i can't do that sorry but i'll come in next time and she was like okay but just on this nail i think you need it and i was like because it was really cracked so i was like okay cool yeah yeah if that's not going to take me too much time that'll be yeah just can you do it on that nail, thank you. So she was doing it. So she did it. And then she was like, okay, I've done

three coats of the biab on that nail. She said, I've done three coats, but I heard I've done I've done free, free coats. Oh no, no, I know, I know, I know. So I said, oh my God, that's really kind. Thank you so much. But don't worry. I'm, I'm happy to pay. And she said, no, no, three coats, not free. Of course you're going to pay. You idiot. Of course I'm going to pay. And I nearly died because the place was full. This is a week. weekends and nail salon famously completely rammed on a weekend everyone heard it everyone saw it and I was like oh my god that's so embarrassing it gets worse it gets worse because right so you know how like you're sitting quite close and it's very intimate isn't it you know your hands are like

right in their faces and you're literally holding hands and holding hands and it's in their hands are in their bodies basically like touching and your legs are between their legs I didn't think we ever talk about the legs enough I'm like what are you going to straddle me okay the only saving Grace is that you don't have to maintain any eye contact, so that's good. But I was like looking at it. So my hand was still with her, but she kind of let go. So I was kind of looking at my nails and like, I don't know, how do you describe what I'm doing, kind of like going up and down with my hand like this. She was wearing an apron, right? You know, like a salon apron. As I like clamped my hand down, my fingers went into the inside of her apron and I kind of pulled it a bit. I didn't

mean to i just i was like lost in like oh my god my nails look really great clamped my hand pulled her apron pulled her apron and she was just horrified and i was horrified and i was like god i'm so sorry i didn't mean to do that that is so embarrassing pull you towards me like that with your apron that's horrible oh i love it well done you thank you thank you it's horrible that's so yeah i was excited i hate that i tip yeah fair enough can you ever go back well good yeah That costs you more than what you thought. Literally. I know.

I thought it was getting a free biob nail. No, no. No, no. No, no. Oh, wow. I hate that. I hate the intimacies of humanity. I know, I know.

I also feel she should have just been like, oh, I'm just going to let her think that was a free and just add it on, you know? Yeah, I hear you. Rather than an out me in front of the entire nail salon, but that's okay. I was trying to be a cheap bit. I know. I know. I was like, oh my God, thank you so much.

Oh, wow. That's so, so, so kind. But I don't worry, I'm happy to pay. It means the world. Oh, my God, I'm so embarrassing. More to, anyway. You got anything else for me? Good and a bad?

Good, yes. Bad. Okay, so right, okay, a couple of things going on. Oh, I'm not going to give you a band because I don't have a band. Fine. I'll give you a bad. I'll give you a bad. I left my phone and my car keys on the roof of the car the other day.

That's bad. It wasn't great. oh my god oh my god oh my god i've remembered my other awkward oh my god i've got another awkward for you um oh god it all happened it's all been going on okay so i'm with my mum and i don't know there's something about being with your mum when you're an adult where you kind of just you kind of let go a bit and you become the child again which isn't great 100% yeah i've regressed okay so i've regressed i mean the other man i think yeah so much from the childhood famously bored but i'm not this time and um this i'm here and anyway yeah so bad

just left my car keys on my mom keeps saying she's like you've just lost it. Like, you're just, you're losing it. This is, you're a nightmare, your reliability. Because she's like, oh, where's the car? I was like, oh, my God, where are the car keys? And I was looking in the, on the roof. Like, I literally, I was walking off just like leaving, like anyone want a car, anyone want a car on an iPhone. Woohoo. You want a prize. Oh, yeah, exactly. It's stupid. Anyway, we were going shopping. We went shopping. Oh, God, this is so awkward. I'm so pleased. I've remembered this. I went shopping with my mom. I was pushing the trolley round. Something lovely about big, big shop with your mom, isn't there?

Love it. The best. It's just great. Except mine's a bit manic in. inner Tesco's. But anyway, go on. I hear you. But I was, I was pushing the trolley down the aisle. I stopped. I thought, I need marmite. I turned around. I went, I need marmite. The man next to me, went, I also need marmite. We had this nice little ha-ha moment. We went together to get the marmite. I got the marmite. I put the marmite in the trolley. I pushed the trolley off. Then I got a tap on the back. Excuse me. It wasn't your trolley. No. By which point, my mom had arrived at the other end of the trolley, arms full of groceries and just toppled them all.

No, she did into his trolley. Just as he was telling me, this is not your trolley. And then mum's looking at me like, this is not our troll. So we had to scoop out. We had to scoop out like, not just our marmite, but like the rest of it too. Oh, it was so bad. Raisers, ginger, apple juice, all those cereal. Oh, good cereal porridge.

It was so embarrassing. That is so embarrassing. Did you take it well? I'm so sorry. I don't know. I mean, I stole all the stuff. stuff. I was like, got to go. Sorry, I'm very embarrassed. I'm sorry for you. That's horrible. It was horrific.

But learn your lesson. Why? What's the lesson? I don't know. Just feel like there's got to be a lesson in that, you know? Yeah, pay attention. Stop progressing. Otherwise, though, I'm having a great time because I am here with my mum in a place that I love loads and loads and loads. And also, oh, good. Like, we're kind of on holiday. We're working a bit, but generally speaking, it's like we've got Wimbledon on. like it's such like we've just we're watching Wimbledon in the offinoes I'm like what is this

it is funny how we are the only two influencers in the entire world who have not been invited to either Wimbledon or Silverstone Can I also just point out that yes Not only as an influence Was I the only influence not invited

I was also my own The only sibling not invited To bloody Silverstone at the weekend I was like well brilliant Did they go Did they bloody go I've seen all their Instagrams And that well

Right Fuck you. Were you not invited? No. I would kick off. I know. I'm not there, but it's not the point. That's not the point.

It's really, don't get bogged down details. You might have made the pilgrimage back. The pilgrimage would have been just that. On to our guest today. Our guest today is the incredible phenomenon that is Lorna Lux. If you are on Instagram, if you are aware of influencer culture, you will be aware of Lorna. She is the OG and it was epic to talk to her. I feel like she's lived a million lives on Instagram.

She's kind of paved the way for so many people. She's lived so much of her life online and she started doing it at a relatively late age industry standard wise. So it was a really great conversation. Right. She was an air hostess, which I always think is so cool. She was an air hostess and then was kind of forced to leave that because of an eating disorder. And then like just by chance started up this like crazy job as an influencer. And literally she's one of the OGs.

And she's like amassed this huge following. Like she's one of the biggest names in the Instagram influencer world. And super cool conversation with Lorna. She's like she's so transparent about her job. and her life, and it was really cool to get a glimpse behind the curtain of one of the biggest influencers. Hi, Lorna. Hello.

Thank you so much for coming in. I've seen you for so long. I'm trying to work. I know you said earlier it was three years. I think it's longer, you know. I feel like I've seen you just yesterday because obviously I follow you and I like see all your stories all the time, which is a fab. Before we get into anything, can I ask you a really annoying question that you're probably

like over because you haven't been in their hostess for a really long time now? Okay. Hit me with it. But can you settle something for me, for us, actually. Is it really a no-no to drink the hot water on flights? It is because they don't clean the tank. Wait, what? Yeah.

What, like drinking, boiling water on flights? So like tea and coffee on flights? Those tanks never get cleaned. So say the aircraft's like 15 years old. Yeah. I mean, it's up to you. Oh my God. I wouldn't drink it.

I've never. No. I wouldn't even do a cup of soup on a flight. Honestly. No. That sounds like, yeah, fine. I've never done it and now I know why. Yeah, just stick to the alcohol.

I heard this, I had a cup of tea on every single flight. Oh yeah, no, absolute no-go. Oh my God. Because that's quite water as well. You're going to get you else for us? On flights. Yeah, on flights. You need to sit forward of the wing if you don't want any turbulence.

Because that turbulence, that wing, and like behind the wing, the tail really flaps. Okay. I didn't care for turbulence. I don't mind that. There's loads of little hacks. There's like loads of TikTokers now, aren't they doing it? Yeah. Where they go like five things you need to know as an air hostess. Yeah. Oh, okay.

And the thing is like, you know, when you get on board, give the crew chocolates for an upgrade. Does it work? No. No. But I'll tell you what is a really good hack. If you're travelling on a full flight with someone else and you're angling for an upgrade, put yourselves in seats that aren't together. And then when you get to check in, be like, oh my God, it's all like wedding anniversary or whatever.

It's the only chance you can put us together. They're never going to put you together. It seems risky. That seems like a risk. And I wasn't, I had my baby, and I wasn't sitting with my husband. And it was like, no one's got upgrady with a kid anyway. But they weren't all great with a kid, yeah. No, they wouldn't.

But I wasn't even, it was like, I'm not really an anxious person about pretty much anything. Apart from that, those two days leading out to the flight, I was like, I'm going to be a new. That's a long flight, though. 14 hours. I've had some quite dicey naredes as well where, like, we've had massive turbulence or, like, we've hit an air pocket. Like, I've watched a cabin crew girl literally hit a head on the ceiling. Whoa. Because she didn't sit down quick enough.

Whoa. Oh my God. I think that rue, I don't know what it. Also as well, have you heard of cosmic radiation? No, but I like the sound of it. So cosmic radiation is like, it's the real thing that's monitored by like the air kind of industry. And the route that takes you to Japan from London is the most cosmic radiating route. Interesting.

So, Noreta, because they always have national crew as well as English crew, because obviously Japanese people are so different to our culture. So they always have like people. from that culture on the plane. But they can only, I think like my hours were 900 hours a year and the Nerita girls could only do 500. Oh my God, because they were exposed to so much radiation. Wow. And I think that like there's going to be studies.

Is that why they changed the route? I thought it was because of the... Have they changed the route? I thought it's because of Russia. They fly over the North Pole now. No, I think they've always flown over the North Pole. Well, that seems stupid changed the route if it's full of radiation. Yeah.

Huh. Oh, wow. But there's a massive, there's been, I mean, I think. I think people don't like to talk about it, but there's definitely a correlation between, like, so many girls I flew with were having, like, IVF or couldn't get pregnant. No way. Like, so many girls had infertility. No way. There has to be some kind of correlation between that and the fact that, you know, they were doing those flights. What a conspiracy theory.

I love it. I like a little conspiracy theory. Me too. Do you? Yeah. Got any one car, any incarion on the boy? I'm watching more than Marlon Monroe at the minute. Oh, Marilyn Monroe?

Yeah, there's like, I think there's like, I think there's some books been written about Marilyn Monroe. saying that she was murdered and obviously she was she was she was her whom yeah yeah she's normal jean wasn't she that was the real name wasn't it yeah wasn't she found like completely naked i'm not being funny but if i was going to kill myself i'm not sure i'd get naked that's a good point i pretty put on a cute outfit it would be the very last thing i'd want to be imagine how embarrassing that's not the last thing going to you mind is it at that point i need to look into this okay i've got this like huge fear like it's my biggest fear it's come up before like in life that i'm in the bath, the bath falls through the floor, lands on the kitchen floor, kills me instantly.

Somebody, be my husband, which is fine, but then inevitably be the police, yeah, but, you know, other people will arrive and I'll just be there. Naked. Naked. Wet. So undignified. And dead. Yeah.

And I just think, oh God. You know what? As well, the way I face in the bath, it's like, funny to the taps, which means that, like, when you're coming through the front door. You don't want to head at the taps. I mean if I get in the shower I face outward But if you're in the bath

You don't want your head at the tap end Because what are you leaning back on Oh yeah that's a good point Yeah Which means that if you come through the door I'm a shower girl Well I don't now I think it's a southern thing you know

What do you think Up north no one has baths I haven't got time Yeah that's a good point actually I was in a rush You're definitely in a rush if you're on you I've tried to have a bath But I fucking hate it

I'm fake tanner So it's like baths aren't my friend Yeah I'm to scrub the side where it's orange the orange tide mark the tide mark of shoes I love a little fake tan tan though oh it's the best oh me too me too what's your favourite I'm allowed to say yeah um probably tan looks oh it's good I love tan lux it's the only one I use which one do you use from the drops I just put in the moisturizer because the drops really give you control as well

don't mean so much and they don't give you orange chans yeah I know I don't know why I don't because I fake tan my face all the time but I never use the drops and I don't really know I use the superglow serum for my face, but not every day. Otherwise, I find that it clogs my pores. I don't use fat tan on my face for that reason. I only my chin. I just forget it in my chin and then I get spots on my chin. I got it after the tour.

When we came back, I just had like loads of blemishes on my chin. I'm only just going now, yeah, and I think it's just because I'm fake tan in my face. I'm quite hormonal around here as well. Whatever I'm going through, if I'm going through a rough time, you'll see it on my chin. Really? I'm like, here we go. Yeah. And it usually only takes back a week.

No poker face. Yeah. Like if I've not slept. Do you use a mitt? No, I just use my hands. I actually always have like orangey hands. That's really brave. Yeah.

Do you know, I saw, sorry, that's not what we wanted John to talk about, but also it is. I saw a girl using the, you know, the Isle of Paradise brush, the buffing brush. So I use that to like do my hands, do my wrists, like knees, like difficult, tricky bits, problem areas. And then I saw a girl apply her whole fake hand. with it. And did it work? Yeah, she was like, this is like creating the most flawless fake time. I didn't know, it was, I just thought it was for the, you know, for the fiddly bits. I was you remember years ago. Your body's a fiddly bit. I went to a BAFTA thing, I think a BAFTA TV awards and Jules was doing the TAN. And back then he wasn't working with, I'm trying

that I want to say he was with Sandra Prate. I don't know who he was with, but he wasn't with, obviously Isle Paradise, that's his. Yeah. I know I forget and he was like, right, get naked then. And I was like, what? I was like, oh no, I can't do that. I was so insecure yeah and I was like I'm really I just can't do this and he was like babes it's I'm you know it's me I'm not I don't care you're you're about him for the wrong side kind of thing so he did end up doing it but I just remember thinking the whole way through like I hate this I hate this I hate this I've never had like someone do a professional tansans really just the thought of it just no I shave wow I've got to say I've got to stop showing my funny to people

I was thinking I'm going to Dublin and I was like on tomorrow. Yeah, tomorrow. And I keep being like, I'll go and get one when I'm there because there's chances of seeing those people again has seen smaller. That's actually a good point. Isn't it? I think there's something to be said for going for regional waxes

because you'd be less likely to see the people again. See you say that, but I feel like my community is very regional. So like if I go up north, I go to Manchester. Yeah. I find, or like any big northern town. Yeah. Leeds. Yeah.

Even Birmingham. Yeah, that's a good point. I find that I know people. Maybe you need to go abroad. Some people go turkey for their teeth and you need to go. I mean, it's to stretch that in it, just to get an immune-me-me-ew, clean-built. How far do you want to run from your shame? That's all I'm asking.

Just get that old, is it the Venus razors? Oh, yeah. You know the ones that flex? Yeah. Stunning, perfect. Get it right in there. It's funny you say that about Jules because he was the first spray tan that I ever had. Really?

Yeah, because he did it. It was, it was Sandra Pei, wasn't it, because he's their cousins. He did the, I think he started working. there's PR and then he started tanning and I remember when he first did you know and I was like I was horrified like I felt sick yeah the whole time and I kept saying to him I'm really sorry I'm sorry about this I'm sorry about that and he was like why do you keep apologising to me but also he's probably he was so used to it because like I think he was used to it I think that's probably what inspired him to do that brand 100% he said that I think he said that when he came to speak to us

on the pod yeah because it does make sense isn't it in everything I've ever done career wise, it's been because of something I'm bothered about. Yeah. You know what I mean? Can I ask how you got into it? Because like, when did you stop being an air hostess and doing Insta? So the real story about, I left Virgin in, I don't know, I think it was like 2012. And I always said, oh yeah, I left, like, you know, I did my 10 years.

But basically, they, I had no choice. They basically said you've got to leave. Because at the time, I had really bad anorexia slash bulimia. Sorry if this is triggering. him and I just couldn't fly so I was so under way and so like emotionally like ravaged they were like well you can work on the checking desks well I was like that so I can't do that yeah I was like an air hose desk because you have an identity don't you and I was so wrapped up in my identity being this air host desk perfect person that was so like perfect in that sense and then it just was all taken

away and it was like quite traumatising so then I didn't have a job for about a year and then I got a job at Rocket St George, which is like a kind of online interiors company, doing like customer service, and they used to do Instagram. And I never forget watching them, taking photographs and posting them. And I was thinking, this whole, like, warehouse is a right, like, mess. But that photo of that little corner of the room is just beautiful. So then I signed up to Instagram. And I mean, if anyone can be asked to scroll all the way back to my pictures, my, my earliest photos,

you know, like a little flat lay in the corner of the room. Yeah. Or like, you know, a little, oh, God. God, I cringe and I think about it. I want to see them now. But that's the kind of vibes I was trying to emulate. And that was like 2014, 14, 14, wow. Early doors.

Yeah. So that's how I got into Instagram. But, yeah, look at those photos now. They were shocking. I think I was taking it on, like, the worst phone as well. Phones are really improved, don't they? Yeah. Well, we'll see.

You'd edit them within Instagram, wouldn't you? With all those awful filters. Valencia. Yeah. And boarders. I used to have that one way it flips. So, because why not have two of me? Why not?

I remember my brother looking at one of those of me, and I had like three of me, and he was like, feign much. And I remember it was like the most cutting thing. I was like, uh, a good point. It is there. Like, how do you reconcile taking a selfie as not being a narcissistic moment? But it's like, people want to know what you look like. They want to connect with you.

Yeah. But sometimes when I take selfies, I'm like, what the fuck am I doing? I'm like, what am I doing? Yeah. Like, I'm 41, like, get a grip. But it is important in a way, especially more so now than ever, that kind of real moment, like chatting to camera, face, you know, face to camera. Yeah. Whereas my career started on Instagram where I didn't show my face.

I used to chop my head off. So it was like here to here. And actually, we'd love to get onto that, onto, like, showing your face and, like, connecting with your audience. but I'd love to ask, so the social media started, you know, as I'm guessing you were still struggling with your eating disorders. Did you find that cathartic to like put your body online then or was it triggering or was it a bit of both? It was probably a good thing for me, I think. Was it? Because I was like almost checking myself. Okay. And what happened for me was I think a lot of my eating disorder was about addiction and I've got quite an addictive personality and this kind of

being perfect and so with Instagram I found another way of being perfect so my pictures and my grid like my grid layer had to be perfect and I got obsessed with something that wasn't about food so it almost like dragged me out of my like

dark eating thoughts and then obviously as an influencer you'd get invited to I don't know a brunch or a lunch and I was so ambitious for my Instagram that I would go and eat the food and be with the people so that became more important important and then over time I suppose it just gets easier doesn't it yeah but it's probably

taking me maybe like 10 years in recovery still kind of like when John again this is a bit triggering but like when we found out John his cancer had come back the first thing I did was go and vomit because I was like oh my god like it was almost like a it's almost like a kind of purge if you like emotions it like numbs things doesn't it quite a numbing sensation so I just think it'll always be there. Yeah. I just can manage it really well now. So it's very rare. Yeah. Yeah, that's, I so get that. It's almost like a, it is like a purge thing. Yeah. Or like just a just, just the technique. It's like my coping mechanism. Right. It's a coping mechanism. And it's control as well. You know, you've just been told something you've got no control over. Yeah. And it's like, I can't go and post it on

Instagram stories. So it's like what I'm going to do. Do you know what I'm going to do? It's actually, the more I talk about it, the more I'm like, it's quite upsetting even to listen to myself say it. Because you just think as you get older, you think you can have your life altogether. But I remember being, I was 30 when Virgin kicked me out. So imagine hitting 30. That's when you're meant to have all your shit together. And I'm like, I've got no job. I'm like, really emotionally, like, not on the right level.

I'm so sad. So actually, I think my 30s have been quite transformational for me. Yeah. Like, in more ways than one. Had you, you were married to John? Met John when I was 25, married him at 26. Right, okay. So we were still together, but I think my eating disorder really did start when I was flying when I was like 21.

Yeah. Okay. So, but he kind of helped you through the latter end of the recovery. I mean, he really didn't have much choice, to be honest. Yeah. You just had to get on with it. Yeah. Which is like, I suppose it's like real reversal now because he's going through your cancer and I'm like,

just got to get on with it. You know, there's nothing we can do. But we're just going to sit at home and like, cry. we're having to just get on with it and not worry not trying not to worry too much and you've been super open about it online haven't you was that was that a conscious decision from the off like i'm going to talk about it yeah it was yeah yeah because i asked him i said what do you want to do are we going to talk about this it's going to look a bit weird because i'm not going to be posting all the time the last thing i want to do right now is stand in the street and take pictures of my

outfit yeah so it's actually changed my business because i can't can't be that person yeah It's just not there. So it's important to explain it. Because people are like, you haven't posted for a month. Is everything okay? And also, I've always had quite, although I've got like a bigish following, I've got quite a small community of people that are like really close. Yeah.

There's probably like 300 people that I speak to every day. Same 300 people. Yeah. And sometimes it'll just be an emoji they'll send me or they'll reply to a story or sometimes it'd be like an essay or whatever. Yeah. But we've known each other for years even though we've never met. Yeah.

So I think for them as well, they were a bit like what's going. going on and I didn't want to go and make a Facebook page or I don't know he could it's quite hard to get the balance of talking about John obviously he is his life not mine so it's like I want to share but I'm not going to share everything no you don't need to know the ins and outs you just need to know like the updates the headlines yeah yeah and he was happy and he's like more than happy in fact he encourages it now does he yeah but he's become like he's a bit of a mini-celebras John oh he can't go anywhere it is it gets He got stopped in Sainsbury's day before yesterday.

He was like, some woman came into Sainsbury. She had like a robe. It was like 11 o'clock at night. She had a robe with like crocs on. Well, obsessed with her. He was, I think she was Irish. She had a really nice accent. And she turned around and went,

you missed her looks. And he was like, yeah. And then she was like, I've got to run the kids at her own at home alone. So she's like, run. But yeah, if she's listening to this, I'd love to know. That's so funny. I distinctly remember. meeting him for the first time.

It must be 10 years ago. And it was like in this basement, it's like a weird influencer event. That sounds like us, isn't it? I know, I know. And I remember seeing him being so starstruck, be like, oh my God, it's Mr Lux. He's like, he's like a bit of a rock star, isn't he? Yeah, because he carries himself and he's got like, you know, the messy hair and yeah, loads of bangles and swag.

Yeah, it's cute. Oh, how has the response been from sharing what's going on with him? pretty positive. There's definitely somewhat unsolicited DMs. Yeah. Are there? Which I don't reply to. I just read and leave it. Yeah. You know, especially if it's about diet, like, oh, if he just goes vegan, it'll cure him. It's like, okay. And I understand, though, that definitely diet can help, and I'm not naive to that. But I do think it's odd that, I suppose it comes from a place of love, doesn't it? People just want to off-share their knowledge. Yeah. But it can sometimes be able to, you know, you're having a bad day. and you read that, well, it's a bit overwhelming, isn't it?

Yeah. Because you do open, you know, you are vulnerable. And I always think this is really interesting with anyone that shares their life online because obviously when you started doing this, you didn't know that one day you'd be sharing your husband's cancer diagnosis. And it's like you have to, I don't know, you have to learn on the job, I guess. It's like, you know, you're so vulnerable to talk about it. Yeah.

And people can get you completely accidentally when you're low. And, you know, like most of the time maybe stuff that you could have handled any other day. Some days you're like, oh, like gut punch. Yeah, it is. It's almost like what? Or like I've just been in LA and somebody messaged saying, you should be at home with your husband right now. And it's like, wow. And part of me thinks, yeah, you're right, actually.

I probably should. Yeah. But also, he and I are very ambitious people. Like we desperately want the things. that we invest in to do well. So for him, he was like, you absolutely have to go to DeValle. Like, you have to do this. Yeah.

And I'm absolutely fine. That's a really shitty message. So shitty. And also she, okay, so many things wrong with it. But like, she doesn't know your context. She doesn't know what's going on with you. Like, the conversations you're having with him or like, and also, none of her business. Yeah.

So annoying. As if you need something to make you feel more bad at this moment in time. Like, it's so. I think there's always going to be that corner of the internet, though, that are going to look to bring people down. because maybe they're feeling a bit crap about their own life. That's the way I look at it. Yeah. And you're right.

That's exactly what it is. Because we've all done it, haven't we? We've looked at someone and thought, for God's sake, have a day off. You know, they're in some perfect holiday resort, like, looking amazing. It's like, here we get. We all feel it as women, but it's like,

so actually slide into someone's DM and, like, it's a bit weird, isn't it? Quite embarrassing. Yeah. I get quite embarrassed for people. When I read them, I'm like, oh, no. Like, you know, sometimes when you're drunk and you say something and then you think about it for the next, like,

four or five years. I really hope for these women that they'll think that, you know, like when you're lying in bed and night, you just think, oh, fuck, that was a weird thing to do. Yeah, I shouldn't have done it. I'm strange. Yeah. You must be used to, like, just by virtue of being in this industry for so long.

Literally does, doesn't really do, it doesn't stay in my head very long. Is it not? I definitely, like, read things and take them in, but I have like a bit of a, I'm able to just recycle. I just forget about it. I don't remember it. We're so busy. I can't do that, yeah. Which is great.

But I don't remember the good either. So it's like a good balancing act. Like you could tell me I'm the greatest person on the planet or I'm the worst person you've ever met. It's like, right, okay, keep going, like reply. Yeah. That's probably quite good actually. Yeah.

You don't really need the validation. Yeah. And actually I was chatting to John about this because I said, what are you like, what's your love language right now? Because I think it does change as you get older. And he's still very much, you know, he wants touch and, you know, words of affirmation kind of things.

And I was like, I don't need that. Acts of service, done. Same. Really? Just do things to make my life easier. Yeah. And everything else, I'll figure out for myself. Exactly the same as me.

I want all of them. I mean, yeah. That is no particular order. Men love being touched, generally. I feel like that's such a common active, that's such a common language for men. He's like, if we're not like, hug in, he's like, is everything all right? I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I would say he's not like that at all.

You know? He doesn't love you. Probably Is he an actual service man? He is, yeah I can see that Yeah, he is Yeah, I'm the same as you

I love acts of service I'm like just Pay the parking fine And I will love you Until the end of my days See, I'm the acts of servicer In our relationship I have to pay the parking fine

Otherwise it might not get done Yeah, do you like to be touched Not really, I don't mind it What's your like? Yeah, a word of affirmation Actually, definitely Yeah Yeah, yeah yeah

Like if he says something nice to me, I'd be like, you look nice and I'll be like crying. Really? See, I think this might be from the job, but if he, if John says, oh, you look, and he tells me every day like, you're beautiful, blah, blah, blah, I'm like, yeah, like, I almost have like, created this, I don't know, like, some kind of like, shield. Yeah, not to take any of that in. Don't believe it. Don't believe you're impressed. That's probably a good thing in, in your job. Yeah. You've been doing it for so long.

Yeah, I think it's changed me as a person in this job. Do you? Yeah. How so? I just think it's I just think it's made me quite guarded in some ways that I wasn't before. I was quite naive before. Also, it's made me like way more like aware of things and how things work. You know, I think one thing that's crazy to me is how we watch ads play out, you know, like, and how an ad is performed. And we understand the organomics of it because we've been in our history, we've been paid to do it.

But I think for them, for most people, things can present very differently. And I think that's where on social media, some people have got pissed off maybe by that influencer world because it's not transparent and it's not deliberately not transparent. It's just nature of the beast. So I think that's made me very, yeah, like I care more now about the community than the money as a business decision. Yeah, yeah. Because the wrong job could really cost me more in the long term. think. Yeah. Do you think your naivity's been like sort of beaten out of you or do you think it's something that you've just like have you just been knocked enough times that you've hardened or do

you think it's been a decision that you've made? No, I think I've been not. That's a shame. Yeah. By people or by by the industry. Yeah, industry things that have happened just generally. That's it. I hate that because we've talked about this other day. It's like nobody in this industry has a thin skin and it's like that's because you develop a thick one or you get out. And that's a shame. Yeah. And actually, if I look back at the people I was mates with 10 years ago, where a lot of them aren't around anymore, they've just kind of vanished.

Because it's horrible. In lots of ways, it's an amazing career, which opens a lot of doors and whatever. But it is brutal. It's brutal. And it does come with a level of anxiety. And probably doctors are going to be listening to this, like, really? I think you're okay. Fair enough, honestly.

But it does, at least for me, it does come with a substantial amount of anxiety. Yeah, there's that, I think it's a bit of, I don't know how celebrities must cope. You know, if you're actually in the public eye, especially like if they're on, like, I've got a friend on Gogglebox. And I'm like, you are in everyone's home every week. Yeah, that is full on. And we went to Greek Street, maybe like a month ago now, and we were just sat having a drink. and people were like covertly taking photos of him and like, I don't know how he copes

But he's like, I love it I just love it, it's great See, I've always had that with my dad And he's always had, as long as I grew up People would do that, take covert photos It used to be autographs and then it got We talked about this the day It's all right then it was autographed when we were kids

Because that was, there's a level of It's not as personal Well there's a level of respect with it If you say to someone If you come up to someone and say hi It's really nice to meet you Would you mind doing this? That's a nice thing

rather than taking someone's photo, which is kind of sneaky. And you usually bring it in that they can have a selfie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That is very interesting. Yeah. And it must be horrible to live like that and constantly being like... Am I being monitored?

Yeah. I definitely think I think more about what I'm up to now when I'm out and about. Yeah. What's the thought process behind that? What's the thought process behind the worry? Don't... Perfect example. I put a TikTok on maybe like yesterday, day before.

And it's a video of me eating my tear in my chair and at a beach club in Cam. Saw that. And halfway through the video, I go, where's the Rose? And one of the girls is like, I've got it. And off camera, she's like pouring out, I'm like that. But some of the comments, there was one comment. It was like, well, you can tell, we know everything we need to know now

because she didn't thank the waiter. But you know, and it's like, no, it wasn't like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was with my mates. Yeah. We've got a different way of talking to each other. Yeah. I'm from up north.

Like, I was customers certain. I used to be like a waiter for years and years in the skies. So I feel like those things really cut deep. Whereas anything like physical, you know, you look terrible. I don't care. Absolutely couldn't care less. Yeah. Say what you want to say.

100%. I so get that. Yeah. Anything that like attacks my manners or my moral rules. Yeah. That really cuts. I was like, oh, no, that's a bit dark. Yeah.

And that would make me then think about, do I start overperforming now? Yeah. You know, like shaky people. Well, that's like, it's almost like performative. Yeah. Yeah. It's a weird old game, I know. But that is such a shame.

It's like, I don't know. It's a shame that that exists for you because like you say, the people that you're doing all of it for, really, like your small community, who you love. Yeah. But it's like you've got everybody else trying to trip you over. Yeah. And that's just, that's a real shame. That that's just how it happens. It's a very small corner of the internet.

Yeah, but all it takes is one trip and then you're down, you know what I mean. I know. I know. I thought was really interesting that you mentioned was like you never used to show your face no never never spoke never spoke because it was a visual app once it Instagram was all about pictures yeah but was it intentional was it like you protecting like yourself from getting triggered I don't know like what was the reason for it when we went into lockdown I wasn't talking online and I really wasn't posted any video content it was literally just pictures of me

bouncing around in the street yeah and then then I think we went into lockdown, I never forget, you remember when you were allowed out and you can go to your supermarket or whatever. Yeah. And I took some pictures in, like, I lived in Horsham, so I took some pictures in like Horsham town. Literally, John pulled up at the side of the road, I got out, bab, bap, posted them and then the police turn up at my house the next day. Fuck off. And they're like, you've, we've been reported for, you know, flouting the COVID kind of rules and stuff. And I was like, oh dear, don't like the idea of this. So I said to John, And what am I going to do?

Because we're not going to be able to take photos like we used to. People are obviously getting irritated by it. So it's not fair. It doesn't make sense. And I can't just keep mirror selfie and the content's going to dry up. And he was like, well, why don't you just chat? So every morning I would get up and I would just do like I get ready with me. It wasn't even to get ready with me.

It was just coming on chatting about crap, what you're up to. Because we're all bored, weren't we, in lockdown? Yeah, yeah. And I think because the views were so high because people were bored, I kind of re-invigorated my career in a way So actually in that sense It was the negativity that boosted the Yeah

I can't believe someone called the police on you I think that was quite common you know I think a lot of people have that Really? I think we had in total We had the police total about four times You're joking And one of them, it was about a picture

And I was like actually this picture is an old picture And I'll show you the original in 2016 Oh my God It's a repo space I mean we're trying to trip you up though It's like they're going out with their way way to do that. But then, in a way, it was brilliant at that time because it really made me realise, wow, I've got people care. You know, when no one's slagging you off and saying anything

bad about you, you're probably not doing enough. Do you know what I mean? You're obsessed with that. You kind of need a little bit of a jiggle. So it's quite important now as a business strategy. You know, there's so many influences in the past that have said stuff to me, people that we know and they've always said, listen, don't be scared of a bit of bad press as long as you can explain it and ride the wave. But it is hard. It's not for the faint-hearted. Oh, my God, I don't know if you could handle that.

I don't know if I could. No, I don't think we could. I feel as though, like you, I mean, I've followed you for a long time now, and I do feel like you've never really had much negativity. In fact, quite the, you've always had quite a positive community. Yeah. I mean, way to jinx it, Laura. Because you've been vulnerable, I think.

I think being vulnerable, it gathers a bit of a momentum of, like, that mum mentality. People want to give you a hug. They want to support you. They're going to comment on every post you play out. And I think you've got that. I guess the thing is it's also a very emotive what I talk about. So it does, it does, like, garner a lot of criticism, which is fine. And it's like a lot of, like, debate that needs to happen.

We actually do have a lot of people disagree with us. Yeah. You know, we're not, perhaps, we're not having people ring the police. No, but there's a lot of opinions. But there is a lot of opinion and we do, we do end up, fight, like, yeah, it's not all positive. Because I guess what we're talking about is divisive. Yeah. Yeah.

It's just a bit different, isn't it? But for you, is that a strategy, like a deliberate decision, to drive, like you say, debate? I've never liked, I don't, I'm not a confrontational person. I'm always, the times where I've had a debate have always been a surprise. I don't mind it when I, when I'm like steadfast shore on something, if I'm weighing in on an existing debate,

I'm like, fine, I know what I'm coming into. When I say something, which I don't believe to be controversial, and then people go on it, I'm like, oh, fuck. Like, I'm not ready. And that's, like, that's where I find quite difficult. Like, I end up, I mean, I get a lot of shit, like, generally, because it's not my fault. Like, generally a lot of it's not my fault.

I'm collateral, but like when it's like on my own content stuff being like if I'm like wrong, but it's taken me a really long time on quite a lot of therapy, which we've had, we've done a lot on the podcast that's like, it's okay to be disagree with people and that's something on the internet that we're really bad. So bad. Yeah, people are really bad at disagreeing with you because then they make it personal and then they hate you and then they need to ruin you. And it's like, actually, honey, like someone said a comment on my Instagram video, it's

like, I've never disagreed with you before, but this video. And I was like, that's okay. That's okay, yeah. That's okay. But we're not very good at that. So I think that's quite interesting. Is that a British thing? I don't know.

We really, we like women to be one thing. And like we like to be able to package them and understand them. And if they misbehave or go out their box, we don't know what to do with them. So the answer is just to just like, just throw them away. Yeah. Rather than try and fix them or handle them. I think it's a weird thing with like a parasocial relationship as well. Like the influences we follow, we feel like in order to like them,

and we have to like all of them. Like, we're very black and white with it, you know. And then there's something then that they do that we perceive us wrong. We're like, we disagree with. It was like, oh, like it shocks us out of one little bubble. Yeah, it's like, I can't fly that person. I didn't know. Yeah.

It's like, so now everything, how could they do this to me? Yeah. It's like, well, that's that. Like, you've, I loved you and I thought you were a good person, but you've gone for a brand with bad morals, and so I can't like you anymore, and I'm following you, and I'm done with you. And in reality, you can't be, like, you can't be, like a perfect,

You can't, and there's always, like, people are going to disagree. And everybody's morals are different. Right. Yeah. Like, I mean, you know, drinking Starbucks is enough for some people to cancel you at the moment, whereas, like, you know, people's perometers, parameters, whatever. Yeah. They're all very different.

You can't please everyone. That's a really good point. Yeah. I think day to day, I probably do hear on the side of caution. Yeah. Do you? Yeah. I try to avoid it.

Yeah. Not going to say anything to rock the boat. No. Yeah. Okay. Let's just keep it light and fluffy. It's a bit tiring, rocking the boat. Because it's exhausting.

But I have, you know, like anyone, we've all rocked the boat. But I definitely think my brand is to not be too controversial. Never, never speak negatively about anything or anyone. Yeah. People really can't handle when influencers do that. Yeah. If I have a bad experience, you won't hear about it from me. No.

Yeah. It's, you might hear about it. You know, if I'm down the pub of my mates, they're all going to hear about it. Yeah. But, you know, I'll never mention that brand again. Yeah. Or, you know, whatever. But, yeah, I just don't, I don't want to be that girl. I don't think I've got it in me.

No. But I love watching people that are. I know, they do go for it. I know. It feels me with so much anxiety. When someone's rude about a brand on their Instagram stories, I'm like, what's it's happening? Some people, it's their brand to be mean about the brands way, right? Yeah.

Yeah. It's like clickbait. Exactly, it is. I can't handle it. Who are you talking about? Outrage. People kind of love it, don't they? They follow for the tea.

Yeah. Did I use that, right? I don't know. I feel like I'm too old. No, they do. I think they do follow for the tea. Follow for the tea. The tea.

Because they know it's coming. Yeah. But yeah, no, that makes, and I think, I love your content. It's so, and it always has been, like, so visual, like visually appealing. Yeah, I love the, like, pretty things. I even remember, I don't even remember this, this is like, shows how long I've been following you for or maybe shows how stalkery I am

but I remember you had your own like VSCO filter didn't you or like one that you... It was A6 No I think it was HB1 and now it's A6 Or do you still use it? Yeah I use Visco on my main grid

Visco, is that how you use it? I didn't know that's still around I love a Visco filter Oh my God because it kind of like if I'm not shooting on LICA because I love Lika What's that? So Lika camera is like

it's almost like it's like a Japanese camera and it's got this real richness to it. Oh. And when you put a visco filter on it, it just like makes all the colours feel more, like, librum. The colour is very warm. And I love that kind of all the pictures have that same.

Because for me, the Instagram, like the main grid, for most people, it's now become more of like real life, real life. Yeah. But for me, I've always kept it quite kind of, a bit of a kind of shop front, if you like. Yeah. This is a bit of a highlight reel. Yeah.

And then you get to stories and that's all unfiltered, unedited. Jesus Christ, what am I doing? So it's quite nice to have the balance, but I do still love the aesthetic. I am an aesthetic girlie. You know, I live in an aesthetic house and I drive an aesthetic car. Like, I am that person. Yeah. That brings me a lot of joy that, you know, I don't have a child to play with.

So I like to dress up John, you know. It's like all these weird things that I do. Like I'm so, like maybe it's self-awareness. I don't know, but I am aware of it being a bit odd. Like when I was four, mum said that I used to take the suitcase out of the loft and just line up all my dolls. in the suitcase and take photographs of them. And then go to Max Spielman, get them printed out,

show me, I'm calm and dating myself now. Go down to Max Spielman, get them all printed out, and then look at all the photos of the dolls. And it's like, nothing's changed. Like, literally, you know, 30 years later, I'm still doing the same shit. I love that. Just getting paid a lot of money for it.

Yeah. Get it go. Speaking of you said, you don't have a child to dress up, we'd love to talk to you as well about being child free because it's something that you like talk about on Instagram. Generally, it's because people are asking you, right? They do ask, yeah. Do they ask a lot?

They've asked a lot. I think when I announced I was 40, that was a bit like, what? She's 40? How's she fought her? Yeah. Because in our heads, people maybe have been following me for a long time. You're always the same age, aren't you? Yeah.

And they can't believe that we're actually getting older. Yeah. So that was a bit of a shock. And then they asked less because they're like, well, she's past it now. You know, she's dried up. She's not going to have any kids now. But then I think I did a little reel kind of thing where I actually. She wrote it and said that we were childless, effectively by choice.

Yeah. I got a lot of stick. Like, people didn't like that. That was like, how dare you kind of thing? And, like, I was ruining my life and, you know, I was missing the opportunity for a lifetime. Oh, God. And part of me, well, I said this to you earlier, you know, I'm not dried up. I still ovulate.

I could still have a child. Yeah. I just have not had one yet. Yeah. And it's not fit into, like, the story that I'm living right now. Yeah. But, yeah, people, I don't understand why people are so triggered by it. I don't know where that comes from.

I don't see content as device that divides people as much as child-free content. It's crazy. Like, it really, I think it triggered, yeah, I think people who have made different choices. I think a lot of people have children because they thought they should, or they think they should. Or even if they wanted children, even if they'd have got to. to that decision on their own, I don't, I think for a lot of people, perhaps it wasn't as empowered or nobody said it as in such an impact, framed it in such an empowered way as the child-free conversation. I think like that is, that does have to be quite like a, it's almost a bigger

decision than to have a child. Yeah. And I think people can't, I don't know, I think people, particularly when you're in the throes of it and you're exhausted and I don't think anyone regrets their child, but I think they are exhausted by their life. And they see other people having, making a different choice. I think that's where they get very, like, fuck. Yeah. Like, I'm exhausted and I'm struggling. And everyone else should be exhausted and struggle.

I feel like it's never been something where I've thought, oh, I'm not going to have a child. But, and you're the one that's the problem kind of thing. I've never been, that's not the narrative I'm trying to set, basically. That's a very uncommon narrative. Yeah. It's like, I'm not saying that my choice is because I'm, like, superior in any way. Yeah, yeah. It's just this is what's gone on in my life.

I was anorexic, so I didn't have periods for like 10, 15 years. You know, I've lived a different story to you. So when it's come to the point where maybe I could have had a child, you know, I haven't for whatever reason. But it's also a bit deranged that people are giving you that harder time within the context of what you're going through at the moment. I think you're right. I think that's very odd. I look at what I've put out and I think, I don't think if I saw someone talking about their husband being poorly, I probably wouldn't go. in with the whole why aren't you having kids chat?

But I think what's very interesting about Instagram versus TikTok, for example, Instagram is very like community-based. So 99% of people that see my content follow me. They probably know me a bit about me. On TikTok, that whole algorithm is about reaching people that don't know who you are. So straight away, you look at the comments on TikTok, it doesn't make, there's no kind of like context. Because how is it? How could they be?

You literally watching content with something, you know nothing. about. And I think on the same on Instagram, but there's a dark side of it of Instagram, where, for example, that post that I'd put out, that maybe had like 12 million views or whatever, it went on the wrong side of the internet. And I think it hit a lot of, I looked at the, who was following, I think it was like 90% of people that saw that weren't following me. So what do they know? Like, there's no context. And it's just that. It's important to remember that, though, when they're coming at you. Yeah, you almost have to be like, well, that's why. Yeah. And the comments are still coming in, like, even today, I was looking in the car on

the way here and i was like here we go what are you saying kind of thing but i think i so another thing for me is that i do reply to a lot of people i couldn't keep up with replying to them but somebody wrote in the comment they were like she's fighting for her life in the comments because they saw it as me replying as me defending yourself and it was like no no this is my business i reply yeah best believe but i'm going to fight for it as well but if people are coming for your reputation i'll reply i can't bear that women are expected to just sit and watch their reputation and be tarnished. We kind of are expected to just shut up, aren't we?

A hundred percent. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And not explain anything. And particularly for influencers, like, and I guess you're like, you would be an example of like an OG Instagrammer and an influencer and you'd be what people think of. And there are so many misconceptions, preconceptions and just like generalizations people are going to make about what you do and how you should behave and who you are as a result of it. Yeah.

And also just the way you grow and. You know, I started when I was like 10 years ago in like a flat, in the corner of a little room, filming pictures, you know, the black lays. So as you obviously grow, you know, you get business, you know, I'm such an entrepreneur, me, I'm investing a lot of things. I like that. That gives me a lot of joy. So, you know, you make a bit of money, you buy a nicer house,

you buy a nicer car kind of thing. For the people that have been along the journey, they're loving it. It's great. Like, we love to see this progression. But I think for some people that maybe just popped in, And they're like, oh, you know, another influence of showing off. She's not relatable. She's not relatable.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's actually, of course I'm not relatable, because nothing about me is that relatable, I don't think. Because I'm not doing all the relatable things. I don't live in a normal house. I don't have children. So apparently that's really unrelatable. I'm married to someone who's 21 years older than me. Like, clearly when I was in my early 20s, I didn't want to be the same if you know what I mean.

So it's really, I mean, maybe I need therapy. The more I think about it, I'm like, I need to work through these demons. I don't wake up every morning, like, traumatised. But sometimes I do wake up and think, maybe they're right, and I've got it wrong. Have I done it all wrong? No. But my actual real life is a happy one. Yeah.

I love John. I really like where I live. Yeah. You know, we've got good mates. We have a nice holiday now and then. And you're so successful. And yeah, this, yeah. Touch wood.

But yeah, I've not had any big duds. You know, there's been no major, like, blips. So long may that continue But yeah I think being a business woman on the internet Which is what I am now It's not just being an influencer I'm definitely much more than that

I think Or at least I want to be Is really tricky To not come off looking like a knob People don't love Seeing successful women For the most part They just don't want to see it

It's the relatability trap Like you need to be You need to have an element the relatability in order to be palatable, really, isn't it? Yeah. And that's not very fair, because men don't. No, they don't. They really don't.

But I think the two, so obviously sexism is massive online, but ageism as well. It's almost like you become invisible. Yeah. And to the point where you don't really want to admit your age. Yeah. Especially in the game we're in where we get all these, I get so many treatments. The amount of like lasers, profiler, Botops, you know, you name it, I love it.

And it's like, yeah, I'm trying to look younger than I am. Because that's a business decision. Because the younger I look, the more money I'll earn. And then obviously I'll reach a certain plateau where now I can do it again, I can sell anti-aging products. But this middle of the road, this like, you know, late 30s, early 40s, it's not the one. Not financially. Because no one's quite sure who you are.

Yeah. You know, are you like a millennial cute girl? Yeah. You're definitely not Gen Z. Well, you know what I mean? It's like navigating that at the minute. God, that's interesting. Isn't it sad, though, that it's like,

And that's a business, like you said, it's a business decision because if you look younger, you'll... I earn more money. More money. Yeah. How crazy is that, though? Like, to actually vocalise it. Vocalise it. It's true, but it's so crazy.

I know. It's terrifying. Yeah. This ageism thing is really quite brutal. And I see it on press trips, you know, where you become the token old person. You know, if I remember an X factor, the over 25, so it's like overs. I didn't really. I thought they were.

over the hill. And it's like, I'm practically dead. So imagine being older than me, having so much wisdom and knowledge and then being made to feel like we're not enough. It's really hard. And that's what I've got to look forward to. And there's nothing else. No, because I think you're making it up as you go. And that's sort of the beauty of your role and people like you in the industry is you get to shape it. Yeah, true. So. Or definitely do things that are unexpected or maybe just back a different horse to what you thought I would do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like a pivot. I'm not someone, and I'm not someone that just puts all me eggs in one basket. So it's like I like to have a few, you know, irons in the fire kind of thing.

That's important to me. With the age thing, people are obsessed with the age gap between you and John, aren't they? I swear that you have to answer that in like every Q&A. Every single one. Really? Yeah. Although now I think as we're getting older, maybe we look, closer in age in some ways. One thing that I always thought, and I hope John doesn't take offence when he listens to this, but when I married him, I was 26, he was 47. Yeah.

And I always thought, as I get older, we'll kind of come like that, but that's quite the opposite. Really? He's definitely, he's 63 now. He's definitely got 62. He feels like he's got older. Maybe because of cancer, I don't know.

But definitely his mentality, he doesn't want to go out much. He's definitely, you know, into that rhythm, whereas I've become, I just want to go out and I'm like, you know, we've also, in our marriage, we've gotten a bit of an understanding now that I'm probably going to go out with my mates, like once a week and just get pissed and, you know, go for a meal or whatever. Which we never, we were always inseparable. 10 years ago we were doing everything together.

So it's like how, you've got to grow with the relationship, right? You can't, it's not just like, we're just going to do that. We're almost like moving around each other. Yeah. Because the love is still there. Yeah, cool. That'll never go. So it's just like how do you, like, I don't know, I don't know how to work it.

That's really beautiful, like moving around each other. Because it's inevitable. There's 21 years between you. It's inevitable that there's going to be this, like. Yeah, but not without the age gap. You know, it's been nearly 20 years. You're both going to have changed to people. You're going to change a lot.

And I think so many people, the comments are like, oh, you know, it's waiting until you get older. It's going to be a nightmare. It's like, actually, that's not the nightmare for us. It's just that every year is like you manage your relationship, don't you? It's give and take. Yeah. It's being patient and all those things. Communication, which, you know, there's been times when I've not been great at where I

maybe not told him what I'm doing or I've just gone off on my merry way and he's like, what are you doing? Like, hello kind of thing. Yeah. And we've had to like regroup. So our marriage is no, you know, it's not a perfect marriage, but we've kind of lasted because we've done that, kind of shimmy together as opposed to just holding hands walking through it.

Yeah. each other and then we always end up coming back together yeah but it's a very like that's such a lovely metaphor isn't it i love that yeah relationships aren't just linear like i'm sorry they're not it doesn't matter what what the differences are no no i've been with my husband for 12 maybe 12 years yeah it's a long time since i was 18 so it's like sure i mean from 18 to 25 like what yeah yeah yeah different people and we were just lucky i've said it a million times in this podcast we were just lucky but we grew up with a similar similar ambition, similar path

we're very aligned like that but like we could have grown up because you just turn into a different person at 30 you're not the same person that you were at 18 at 40 you're not the same person you were at 25 and that's if it works it's magic if it doesn't it doesn't and that's all right yeah it's true

I know for like my mum and dad divorced when I was like four and so I grew up thinking that that was a failure but now as an adult I think you know relationships are so hard you have to really work hard as it yeah you do and both people have to be like fully in so yeah I've got a lot of respect for John because he's kind of like you know he's been through my anorexia and you know all these things it's like he's really poor he's had to graft I've not been an easy person to be married so but yeah relationships are tough aren't they

they are they are so tough I mean just trying to put two people together yeah and for a long period of time and expect them to just get on oh hard and they expect really boring shit to get there as well. Yeah. So annoying. So annoying. Yeah. Yeah.

Lawler, it's been so cool to chat to you. I love that we're ending on that note. No. And now. Relationships are really fucking hard. Yeah, I'm bored. Hang on that note. Bye.

I'm kidding. Oh, this has been last. Thank you so much. No, it's been so nice to chat to you on a selfish note as well because it's just been so long. Yeah. That's been too long. but honestly yeah you're brilliant keep doing what you're doing and i'm excited to follow you along the journey along the way to see what you end up doing because i have no doubt this is

you're going to have an empire you already do have an empire yeah i hope so i'm excited to see how it grows it's cool thank you thanks so much all now should i delete that is part of the acast creator network