Should I Delete That? - Mama's Still Got It

Episode Date: April 30, 2023

This week on Should I Delete That? Em and Alex are joined by model, content creator and wearer of tiny hands: Louise Boyce! When Louise started her instagram to aid her modelling career, she never thought that hilarious videos of her impersonating a toddler with a high pitched voice effect and tiny plastic hands would be what catapulted her professional life. Now, three kids later, almost half a million instagram followers and a book being released in June, Louise shows that Mama really has still got It...Louise's book is out on June 8th 2023, click here to pre-orderFollow Louise on Instagram @mamastillgotit_Follow us on Instagram @shouldideletethatEmail us at [e-mail] & edited by Daisy GrantMusic by Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

As a new mother, I needed honesty. I needed to know that I wasn't alone. I needed to know that it does get easier. Yes, it's hard now, but it does get easier. Or it's going to get harder again. Or it's okay to argue with your partner. And all these things that do ride with being a parent, it's okay. Hello and welcome back to Should I Delete that.

I'm Alex Light. And I'm M. Clarkson. Happy Monday. And it's Monday. Just a nun. It's a bank holiday Monday, no less. It fucking is. May, the month of bank holiday.

Three bank holidays this May out. We are greedy. Greedy. I am delighted. It doesn't really matter to us, other than that the podcast starts to take a bit of a hit because people don't listen on the commute. But it's probably actually a bad thing for us. But selfishly, I just love the anarchy that are there,

that a bank holiday brings what fucking day is it who knows it's a monday that feels like a sunday and then bam it gives like snow day vibes or like substitution teacher in your lesson vibes they brought out the ohp like we're what to your movie today the projector is that the overhead projector yes it is the overhead projector yes ohp to the cool kids and sign up the front of the class and paid attention to the teacher yeah it is I do I do like a bank holiday. Yeah, and then, and then, bam, before you know it, it's Friday, and then it's the weekend again, and this week, it's going to be Friday, and then we've got another one, because

it's the coronation. And I don't know how many people care. Is that why? Yes, yes, we've got a king. Oh, that's then. That's what the second one's for. Do you think they're going to be like street parties, like the... Yes, yes, which brings me on to my awkward, Al, a preemptive awkward.

So, next... weekend, which it'll probably be my awkward next week and the week after, but there's murmurings in the street WhatsApp group. As you know, my street has a WhatsApp group because I've moved to a street with a WhatsApp group. And they are planning the street party for the coronation. Wow. That is the awkward. That is it. That's the full stop. I feel incredibly awkward, okay, because I don't want to go. Obviously, I don't want to go. Obviously, I don't want to go. Obviously, I don't want to go. I can't say, I can't come because I'm going away because they'll see

that I'm in because it's being held on my street. I can't sit in the house all day because again they'll see me from the street Oh, this is horrible. Do I do? This is fucking awkward.

It's horrible. You could say you've got an infectious disease. You have to stay in the house. Well no, because then I have to stay in the house. Then if a better plan comes along, I can't be like, oh, I'm going to my better. plan. So what I was thinking is like, so on Saturday, yeah, I mean, I have no, I have no better

plan, but I'm hoping that one will come up. So I'll have to leave the street party, but they'll be like, oh, stop him for a drink. And I'll be like, bollocks, okay? You're going to have to go. I'm going to have to fucking go. There's simply no way around it. But then Alex threw a real spanner in the works and he's like, oh, I really, I think it's for people with kids. I was like, well, I have a kid. And he's like, no, no, no, like kids, kids, not like, I hope. baby kids like kids you know run around all fun kid kid and it's like right so we not invited because that's probably more awkward that's way more awkward yeah so you have to like leave your house and like just trundle through the street party to get out yeah right thanks for thinking

me guys no one's saying me a sausage presumably fuck you all yeah so I won't be able to I mean I'm not going to be able to take my car anywhere on Saturday am I what am I going to be the one that runs over all the tiny street children out my way, straight through the bunting. Fuck you care. You're going to have to go. You're going to have to go and I feel for you. This is going to be my awkward next week,

but it's preemptively awkward. It's my preemptive awkward this week. It will be my awkward next week too and the week after because next week will be even closer to it and the week after it will have just happened. But I'm already awkward about it and it's two weeks away. I am so excited to know the outcome of this. I want pictures and videos of you at the street party.

I'm not ruling out, not being in London. I have been putting the feelers out to see if anybody would like to leave London with me. That's a good shout. To avoid it. I'd come with you, but I think I'm away then. Because I would also like to leave London, but I'm away.

I am leaving London. I would also like to leave London, so I'm going to leave London. Good for you, Al. If you'd like to join me in Tenerife, the invitation is open. Obviously, I want to join you in Tenerife. That sounds so much better than making small talk over glasses of Pims,

celebrating a king that I'm, quite frankly, unmoved by. Yeah, that's like, do you know what, that's a really good way of putting it, nice way of putting it, a move by. I like that. I'm going to adopt that. Yeah, I'm not quite, I'm not, I'm not going to throw a grenade into the hands of our royalist listeners, because if you love him, go get it, Queen. Go for it.

Love him without judgment. Yes. Moving swiftly on. Am I awkward? I got received this DM. In response to a story that I put up about last week's episode with Francesca, our astrology expert. And this girl said, first time listening to you both, as I wasn't sure it was going to be for me, but I loved it. Okay, I know that that message is, on the whole, a positive message.

because she loved the podcast but why did she not think it was going to be for her and why am i so bothered about this why am i as one ticot as a ticot generation might say why am i pressed about this why am i pressed why is my voice raised no why is it raised i get it i'm panting i know you de-med it to me well okay so i i live in a fun i live in a fun ecosystem where i i'll be driving i'll be fine my heart rate is fairly normal and then i get a a WhatsApp message from Alex and it always has a picture and it goes OMFG

and I think this one was like OMFG how rude and I just think oh Christ what's happened because it could be anything from like Dave's left her to a piece of arguably

complimentary criticism a backhanded compliment at best it was a backhand and I agree why, what is it about us that she thought she wouldn't like? There's so much. Don't take that scab.

She's surprised. She's surprised that she ended up liking us, which implies that yes, she presumed she was not going to like us. And I just want to know why. Do you really want to know why though? She really want her to say why. Because I think that will crush us.

Because what that means is we're going to have to know how we've been perceived. And if there's one thing I know, I know that we don't want it's to know how we've been perceived, unless it was fantastically. Okay, do you know what? You've closed the loop on that for me, actually. I actually don't want to know.

I'm done, I'm cured, I'm healed. Ignorance is bliss. A hundredth of them. Take the compliment and leave the rest. Yes, yes. Oh my God, pick and choose. I'm going to cherry pick. Cherry pick.

Okay. Okay, my bad. I don't know if you remember. Back in January, before Arlo was born, I declared loudly that I was entering my ugg era. Oh, God, yes. Live on air, not live, but during an episode, I ordered a pair of ugs. I pre-ordered a pair of ugs, which were due to arrive on Valentine's Day,

and I thought, how nice, a postpartum gift to myself on the romantic day of the year, the most romantic day of the year. Perfect. Everything aligning, I like it. Yes, yes, yes. Do you know when they arrived? When? Yesterday. you're joking you're actually joking oh my god i know that's more than two months late i know

and in that time i reordered another pair which arrived within a matter of days so now i have two pairs of ugs which isn't necessarily a bad thing the same ugs no i got them in different colours because i foresaw this might be a problem okay okay but i foresaw this might be a problem When I ordered the second pair of ugs after ordering the first pair that I knew we're going to arrive eventually, I thought, oh, maybe I should just order a different colour. Yes, okay, I like it. I did that. I did foresee a problem. I don't know why you're speaking in that tone.

The problem was foreseen. I did not lie. So, anyway, I now have two different colours, which is fine, everything fine, except I want to send them back. It's April, it's warm, it's basically May, it's warm, I don't need two pairs of ugs. but because of my ridiculous aversion to the post office I think I just know then I'm fully allergic

I just think I know that I'm going to go back and then I want to sell them on anywhere but then I just know it's the same thing again and I try to cancel the order that's even harder it's so hard and I tried to cancel the order so many times and they wouldn't let me

but the money went so long ago now that I'm just like you know I'm going to say exposure therapy send them back do this return expose yourself to what you're afraid of i feel a bit giddy i don't think i don't know about that you've gone red i'm getting a bit like wait what it's a serious advice i have to get to the post office i hate the post office i do go to the post office when i rent my

clothes because i rent i rent clothes for parties and things yeah yeah you're good at that i know really good at that but they want me to print my returns label and i don't have a printer No, no Is it, if it's Royal Mail You should have the option To not have a print To do the Scandy QR code So you don't have to have a printer

I don't know It's from flannels I'm not happy with their pre-order system I tell you Pre-ordering for the feckin next year That is really bad I feel like They can't do that

I know And I'm trying to cancel it so many times And you just can't There was no council option I would get in touch For their customer service Because that's really bad You can't just send something

Two and a half months later It doesn't work like that You say that, but I actually, I ordered my dad a Christmas present two and a half years ago, and that arrived at my mum's house in March. Oh, my God. She said, there's a parcel for you, and I was like, cool, cool. And she opened it, and she was like, it's there. I was like, I literally ordered that two and a half years ago.

And it just was like, where's it been? Where has it been? There will have been a human that was involved in its incredibly late arrival. And I want to know why they even bothered. If I hadn't requested to know where it was in two and a half years, they could have just kept it. I am fascinated. It was an Etsy purchase.

What? Maybe this had a massive backlog of things to make. A two and a half year backlog. Love that. I need to pay closer attention to my orders. That's all I know. Well, that is a bad. I think you do, I think, okay, you're either going to have to send it back

or ask Alex to do it for you. Or just wear them. wait when is Alex next in the office but it's a very big box no because he can print he can print it off oh yeah he could do that tomorrow yeah and then you've got the print out and then you can take it sounds like an awful lot I'm getting really overwhelmed about it I've got this like not in my stomach I don't know what my problem is with the fucking post I've got to grow up I don't know

it's weird I know I know but I did get my passport sorted you're what oh your passport yeah I have lost my driving life license though and I have to go back to the post office again you have to go to the post office to get a form for the DVLA you know what I'm going to do that this afternoon I'm going to go to post office this afternoon are you I'm not going to send the the odds back today but I'm going to I'm going to practice and I'm going to go and I'm going to get my DVLA form oh my god I feel a bit giddy oh from the post office yes I feel like I need you to give me your order number for flannels and your email address and I

I'm going to find out how you can send this back without printing because I'm pretty sure that you can. And this is going to be perfect. You're going to go to the post office. You're going to pick up your DVLA form and you're going to drop off your box. All I know out is that you've got enough on your plate without having to do this incredibly mundane task that I can definitely do myself. And do you want to know something really sad? Of the three of us, with my three siblings, I am by far in a way the most competent. What does that say about the other two? I dread to think. I dread to think. Me too. anyway

anything bad with yourself yeah so does the word words no word is one word does the word cake gate

mean anything to you cake gate no okay so this is like blown up on TikTok I feel like you haven't been on TikTok have you been on TikTok for a week

not really I've just not come up for you no I've been a bit busy I need to spend some time okay so what happened is there was this girl who owns a bakery in America somewhere and she had she like puts her little cakes on Instagram and someone she had a customer she made them a sprinkle rainbow cake so the the layers were all rainbow colored sprinkles on top and she'd written happy birthday on the

top and the customer had complained about this cake and so this girl went on to do a video about it and be like this is the worst customer complaint I've ever received and it's so unfair and blah blah blah and the girl the customer ended up posting her receipts and like posting the photo of the cake which admittedly did not look great and it was a lot of money i think it was like 80 dollars and it did not look good like it was mushed it was it was not great but this has sparked this entire thing on ticot like i cannot breathe on there for seeing videos about cake gate and honestly I actually feel really sick about it because people from around the world, literally people from all corners of the world, are coming to TikTok to lay into this woman, this baker, to absolutely lay into her. They've gone through every single video she's ever posted, every single cake she's ever posted, and they're doing these videos with like green screen of like, look how bad this is, look how bad that is.

She charges $60 for this, like talking about how they've even someone went on Google Maps and found the bakery and took a picture of the window and were like, her cinnamon buns here aren't covered. This is a hygiene problem. Someone needs to get in touch with like the, you know, hygiene control. And I was like, you guys are actually sick. But the horrible, the scary thing is watching how much pleasure people are taking from this. Like it's like, it's like this, this pack.

is like banding together to, to like delight in this Chardonfreude. And it's so disgusting. And I feel, and I keep writing on these people's videos. And I never, I never, ever comment anything negative on people's videos ever. Mostly because I can't be asked. I don't want to get involved. But I keep saying, like, this video is so mean. Like, what are you doing?

Like, okay, yes, oh, yes, that cake wasn't very good. Yes, she's not the best cake baker in the world. Yes, maybe she charges too much for her cakes. But, like, is she a serial killer? Like, has she harmed someone's child? Like, what are you doing? To buy them. Like, if you don't like what someone's doing, don't fucking buy it.

I know. It's so, you know, like, I keep thinking about this at the moment. Just in terms of how the world is. And it's like, I'm watching, um, what's her chops got married? Sophia Ritchie got married. And I've seen so many commentary videos about how, like, she's the new it girl. And she's so much better than Haley Bieber.

And it's like, where they're so happy that the Kardashian era is ending. And this real woman is whatever. And it's like, what the fuck? it's wrong with you all, just stop building people and trashing people and playing with people. Like, TikTok, and that's really stressed me out that it's happened to somebody unfamous, like the poor cake woman, because that is genuinely... She had less than 10,000 followers. That is enough to make a person end their life, and to pretend otherwise is willfully ignorant. She didn't handle the situation well.

Like, that's undeniable. She didn't handle the situation well. She should never have made a video about it in the first place, probably. Her reaction to all the backlash she was getting was super defensive, like, not very nice. But like, that's it. Like, that's it. Yeah.

Her crime is that she's too defensive or she's not a very good baker. I think it's actually mad how we play with people to this extent. Like, it stresses me out so much. I find... Disgusting. Like, cult, it's like Lord of the Flies mentality. And it's like, it never fucking ends well.

I know. It never ends well. It's so sick. find it really, really sad because it just takes one thing, you know, like I know I know like people take the piss out of TikTok boys and stuff and obviously

I'm one of them. And I think like there is something to be said for like the skits and for like the jokes and for, you know, there's bits of TikTok that I really like in terms of like everybody kind of has a sense of humour. But then there's some things where a person will be picked up

for nothing. You know, picked up for nothing. You know, these TikTok boys, I think they know what, you know, a lot of creators, I think what I'm trying to say, a lot of creators know what they're doing. They want to get stitched. They want to have the jokes with people. And like that is kind of the charm of TikTok is that you can have this, like, you can have these crazy connections and make this mental stuff together.

But then sometimes the wrong person gets picked up and it's like, it's so crazy. I know. It's actually made me feel really sick, like super sick. Because we talked about it when it all happened with Liam Payne and everything kicked off with Liam Payne. And then much later after he became the laughing stock of the entire internet, then everyone was putting up tweets being like, what happened to Liam Payne?

And it's like, what do you mean? What happened to Liam Payne? Like, you made him the butt of the internet for two months and now you want to know why he's not looking very well. And it's like, that's happened to somebody who is so famous. And like, not that it's okay for it to happen to someone famous, because it's absolutely not, it's not okay in any sense. But like, I'm happy that Liam at least has the resources to be able to have a good support

or afford therapy and, you know, and he's got enough money and resources and means. But like non-famous people and non-rich people don't have the means to do that. No. And they don't have any practices and they don't have anybody in their life who knows what it's like. At least, you know, Liam Payne may well be friends with other people who have been centre of a crazy storm and they can tell them it ends. and it's not personal and people will move on. When you are in the midst of something like this,

it's just like every sniper in the world was pointed on you and you don't know that they will ever, ever, ever go away. Right. And it transcends into your real life so quickly. It's shit and it's gross and I would just encourage anyone to boycott hashtag Kate Geat. Goods. Anything good? I hate to gain good from that situation

but there's been a little bit of a silver lining to it in that I have been introduced to. cake talk and there is nothing suddenly there is nothing more therapeutic in my life than watching people pipe cakes and use a spatula to like smooth them out and watch the little spinning thing I agree so satisfying and I think my toxic trait is that I think I could do it myself I definitely can't I would love to bake a cake with you can we have a day well so many dreams that we'll never fulfill but in a dreamland I would like to spend the day making a cake with you we have a cake competition and we'll see who makes the prettier cake.

I would love that. Perhaps we should do one episode in real time baking a cake. Look what I bought. You bought Nadia's everyday baking. I will buy it also. We'll do a practice run by ourselves and then we can do one together and we'll record it. Is it just me baking a cake together? I'm going to make a chocolate cookie pie.

That does look very good. I'm not going to do that. I'm going to do a classic Victoria sponge because the easier it is, the better it will be. Boring. okay there's pistachio anyway sorry we'll bake a cake together my good is that I we I saw you and personally went to the studio

I know it was so nice wasn't it it was so nice to be back in the studio I felt hugely overwhelmed afterwards with all my work and trying to be basically doing everything I did before except with a dependable which I think we'll take from practice but are you kidding it was great it was so fun I absolutely loved it and I've missed you load

so it was nice to get back into it It was, wasn't it? I feel like I was a bit rusty with the interviews, but... Nah, smashed it, babes. It was a hoot. So, without further ado, who is one of our interviews? So, this week felt quite timely in that it was my first day back in the studio, Aveka Bebe. So we spoke to Louise, who you might know on Instagram as Mama Still Got It.

she has a book coming out on June the 8th called Mama's Still Got It and we talked all about the book but also about existing on Instagram as a mother and actually her journey to doing what she's doing now in that she was a successful model throughout her teen years and and and again throughout her 20s we talked about body image we talked about the shift in a woman's life if she does have a baby and it was so much fun. It was timely actually and it wasn't even planned to be that way but I felt like it were just the interview fell at a really good time for you. So that was great.

It was perfect. I feel like you were related a lot and she was just cool and she's just so fucking gorgeous, isn't she? So gorgeous. So without further ado, take our word for it that she's beautiful because you can't see her and enjoy her wonderful words. Here's Louise. Hi Louise.

Oh hi. Oh, hi, hello. Pretend like we haven't been together for a while now. I know, yeah. I'm so happy to see you. Thank you so much for coming on. Pleasures are mine, honestly. Thank you so much.

It's a pleasure to be here and see you. Yeah, we're so happy to have you on. We've both followed you for a while, and I don't have any children. I'm not a mum, but your account is the funniest thing to me. I feel like I can relate, even though absolutely can't. No, it just makes me laugh. I re-watched your video of like a day in the life of a toddler.

Oh, my gosh. And it was just like, I mean, it's chaos, but so funny. But it's true. You've got this all coming. I'm excited, yeah. They just touch everything. And then I thought, or maybe it gets better after toddlers. It's fine, though.

I don't want to put anyone off. It's fine. We all, you know, it's fine. And then we have more children and, you know, because they're all wonderful. But yes, it's, it's beauty in every stage, right? Even with the, yeah. Even with my 10-year-old now, he's going through a stage now where he just calls me bra. Does he?

Cool bra. Everything's bra. Oh my God, that's like that TikTok where it's like... Oh, yeah. Excuse me, bra. Yeah, right. I think that's maybe where it comes from. Is that what it is?

Yeah. Oh, I didn't realize. Yeah. But I did a reel about him calling me bra the other day and how to like translate all the different kind of bras. And I thought maybe I am the only one that goes to this. But then like the comments like, my God, me too. And you're like, okay, so I'm not alone.

And that's what's nice. There's a lot of the videos that I do, a lot of the time I think, will anyone relate to this because I don't know if this is normal and then I'm like, okay, it's fine. This is all normal, fine. So it was good. Yeah, it feels really fitting.

This is, we were saying this is my first interview back since having a baby. So it feels very fitting that you're here for that. Like, because I'm fascinated by the mum side of Instagram and it's like, it's a really weird thing that happens when you have a baby because it's like, do you just become a mum influencer? Like, when your whole brand is what you do,

your whole brand is who you are. Yeah. When you become a mum, do you become a mum, whatever? So I've been really like personally like, oh God, is that all I'm going to be now? And having this massive internal existential, which seems like an oxymoron. Anyway. But it's so nice to see accounts where it's just like yours

where it's so much humour. Oh, that's good. Like, because it is like you're a mum professionally. Yeah. Which is like fun. It's a full-time job, yeah. But, yeah, you're a professional mum to your kids, but then you're also a professional mum publicly.

Yeah, weird. I don't think of it like that. How do you think of it? Accidental, to be honest. To be honest, I joined Instagram to kind of better, like, my modelling career. If anyone said to me, you know, when I started Instagram, you're going to be known for having little plastic hands. I'd be like, what the hell are you talking about?

They made me laugh so much. It's so good. But I joined Instagram to better my modelling career because it was at a time where I wasn't on social media at all. The industry was very much like, if you're not on social media, then you're forgotten about. Fine. So I was like, okay, I've got to get involved. And then I called it, Mama's Still got it, because I was a mum. And I felt like I'd lost a bit of my identity when I became pregnant.

My previous agency were quite a matter of fact. And, you know, they were like, well, your career's kind of pretty much done now. Really? Because you're pregnant? Yeah, because I was pregnant when a mom and wasn't maybe available for certain shoots, especially overseas, my age, I don't know, all sorts of things. And, you know, there are so many blondes out there. I was very easily replaced.

So I just took a step back and just had my baby. But then obviously, I just remember feeling really like, well, what am I doing now? Like, yes, I've had a child, but now what? Like I still want to work. I still want to feel like me. I know that I've still got this something inside me, that I still want to do something. And then I just joined Instagram out of kind of bit of boredom, really,

and like I need to do something. And because I felt like I had lost a bit of my identity and I still knew that I could still look nice and do my job and have a conversation. and, you know, I wasn't, it wasn't just about the baby. And I thought, if I feel like that, then I'm sure others do. And so that's why it's called, Mama's still got it. And I guess it's also like, you know, I can still do some modelling.

It's still okay. And then the funny stuff happened really during COVID when I was feeling really, like, anxious about the state of the world and I guess we all were. and being at home with three kids, homeschooling, you know, all day every day. And my youngest at the time was six months. So I had a six-month-old, a five-year-old and a seven-year-old. And it was just like, oh, my gosh, this is way too much. And the way that I dealt with it was just make fun of it and just laugh at it. And I kind of have always believed that laughs is the best medicine.

And just did that really. Again, thinking people are going to like this or relate to this? am I really putting myself out there and making a fool of myself, which I totally am. But I didn't, you know, it got to the point where I was like, well, I don't care. Like, I don't care. Like, there's nothing else to do for a lockdown.

And I've got to keep myself busy doing something aside from just homeschooling kids and changing nappies. But what was lovely is that there were loads of other parents saying, thank you, because we're all in this together. You've made me laugh the first time today. And, yeah, it was so, and I just thought, and I honestly, I wasn't planning on, I didn't even think that I could be this funny character. I didn't, I had no idea that that was something I could do. It's very strange. But, so I just continued it, really. Yeah. And now I have this hands character and make fun of my husband, but she's totally fine with it. But yes, it's been quite cool And then obviously from that

books been written And yeah, so it's kind of cool Can I ask, you mentioned before About like when you got pregnant with your first baby And that was kind of like felt like the end for your modelling How was that for you And I'm asking myself three months postpartum Like how was that for you in terms of your identity

And how did you cope with your image of yourself Yeah, I did struggle and I kind of felt like I had to throw myself back into work, like I really wanted to. I kind of needed to prove to myself that I literally have still got it and I can still do it. And I remember my agency was like there's a shoot in Germany and my baby was about four months old, a little bit older than your baby. And it was a shoot in Germany and it was like three days away and they were like, do you want to do it? And I was like, yep, I can do it. I can do it. I can do this. It's fine. And, oh my God, like, I remember just sitting on the plane going, what am I doing? Like, what am I doing? Like, what am I doing? Like, I felt like the umbilical cord was still attached to him. And I just felt really, like, I shouldn't be like, what am I doing? Like, just enjoy this time. So that was a bit of a wake-up call because even though, and I did do the job and it was great.

But the whole time, like, my boobs were leaking and phoning home, is everything all right? And I didn't really enjoy it. So although that I really wanted to hold onto my identity, trying to do it made me also reflect and go, actually, you need this time to just enjoy your young baby and because it goes so fast. And then obviously the mum guilt creeps in and you question yourself. But so after I came home, I just said, right, I'm just going to stay at home for a bit. If any UK jobs came in, I would take the baby. That was fine. But I really had to work on. I really had to kind of work on, like, how I was feeling.

I wanted to still feel good. I still wanted to look good. And of course, you know, when you're in the fog of babies and you do catch yourself in the mirror sometimes, you're like, who the hell is that? Like, I don't recognise that person. And then, of course, because I was really tired, part of my personality had gone.

And I was a bit like, I don't know who I am at the moment. And then, of course, that can reflect on your relationship. Not that my husband ever did this, but I kind of felt like you don't think that I'm as fun as I used to be because I'm not because I'm tired and I'm leaking and I've got a blocked milk duct and it's fucking really painful. It's so fucking painful. It's so painful. Oh my God. Have you experienced this? Yeah, I had it like two weeks ago. It's a lot for a week. It was worse than birth. It's horrible. It's horrible. Horful. Oh, I feel your pain. Anyway, sorry, carry off. So I just had to do little things to kind of hold on to my identity, whether it was like just going for a walk by myself or getting a new lip gloss and trying it out or getting my hair washed or something. It's something that just made me feel like I'm not just like this sack of potatoes.

And I found that every small little thing that I did, like really small, when you put all those small things together, it made me feel. like I had done something big and it was really nice. Even like little things like finishing a cup of tea when it's hot like all these little things and then I would you know my husband and I and we still do this like we really make time for each other like we always we have regular date nights and movie nights and things like that so we really just so we kind of stay connected because it's so easy to feel disconnected when you're in the the height of new baby and The fog and kids, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's something that you do need to

really work on. Um, and we still do that. It's a lot easier now because the kids are a bit older. We've got a whole other issues coming now with like preteens and stuff. Bra. Bra. Bra. Bra. Yeah. Um, but I do feel now, I do feel like, I do feel like I've got my identity back. Um, yeah. And that has, that's, that's, I do feel like, I do feel like, I do feel like, like I've got it back. And I feel like I'm probably better now than I was pre-kids, which is good. Like, you know, and it's just, it's just working on yourself and, you know, mentally, spiritually, physically. And it's, you know, it's a form of self-care. You know what strikes me is when you were talking about when you first got pregnant.

Like I think probably every woman when they get pregnant, or they're thinking about getting pregnant, they have this worry about work. Yeah. Because obviously it changes things, right? Especially with childcare and childcare costs. Like, it's not easy. It's very difficult. But for you especially, when, if you're in modelling,

when your job relies on your parents and your freedom, if, you know, given that it involves so much travelling and dropping everything at a day's notice to travel to Spain or whatever, that must have been so scary to make the decision to try for kids and then also to have, to get pregnant and have kids. It must have been terrifying. Well, it was. And to be honest, when I first got pregnant,

it was a very lovely surprise. Oh, yeah. Oh, I'm so surprised. It was a lovely, lovely surprise. So it wasn't really on our agenda. So when it did, and I was doing pregnancy tests, and they kept saying negative. And I was like, what the hell's wrong with me?

Like, I'm just really, don't feel great at all. I did loads of pregnancy tests and they were all negative. So I ruled that out. And then I went to the doctors for cystitis. And I was like, I haven't had a period in a few months. Is that stress? And he was like, no, that's probably pregnancy. And I was like, no, it's not.

I've done loads of tests. And he was like, well, we'll do another one just in case. I was like, fine. And then he was like, yeah, you're pregnant. Like really cavalier. Like, yeah, you're pregnant. And I was like, what? And because it was a bit of a shock, there was this thought of like, what the hell now?

Because I was not prepared for it at all in regards to like, yeah, my work, none of my friends had kids. I didn't, it wasn't on, you know, it wasn't something that I was thinking about. And then I knew that it was going to affect my job and everything. And it did. So as soon as I started showing, and had to finish work and then my previous agency basically said good luck with everything

you know that's so brutal it happens it happens I think with with lots of careers you know it's shit but you know in a way it made me then want to start something

like Mama's still got it which I'm really pleased that I did but yeah I saw that my everything just I think because when you are a model the obviously you're self-employed. And when you start working, then that's it. Right, that's it.

And I had nothing else. And I remember just being like, right, okay. So I wouldn't, like, how can I be bringing someone into the world without an income and without knowing what the hell I'm doing? And it was, again, that was like a knock-on effect on, like, my identity and what the hell am I doing? But I will say that all things work out. And I remember at the time thinking, this is the worst timing.

I don't know what I'm doing. But looking back now and now where I am now, it was the best timing. It was meant to happen. And I'm so pleased that everything worked out the way that it did. It was all perfect. But at the time, you're like, oh, my God. But it was, it was perfect.

And then obviously didn't go back to that agency. Went to another one, which is where I'm still now. and they, you know, saw, I said to them, like, I want to start this blog and they were like, well, we think it's a great idea and that could coincide with the modelling. And then, and it's been, you know, as I said, it's all worked out. And I think if anyone out there listening is in a place like, oh, shit, I don't know what's going on in my life and I don't know where it's going to go, it will be fine. Everything works out. It always does. I really, really believe in that.

I think that's something that's not talked about. lot is the fear in pregnancy. Like, you kind of feel, I felt terrified when I was pregnant. I was like, what the fuck? What the fuck? How am I going to do this? And obviously now it is fine, but it's so scary. But then you feel that you can't say that because you feel like you're so lucky and you're not supposed to. And it's supposed to be this like magical ethereal time. And actually it's like, this is fucking hard. It's so scary. But also the same when your baby arrives.

I didn't naturally get that immediate bond that I think Beyonce had her baby at the same time as I did and I kept reading her articles going I've never felt a lot like this before and this is amazing oh my God and I was reading it going I don't feel like that I'm very pleased with this person that I've created but I don't have that oh my God

this is the best thing in the world it came later but it wasn't immediate but it was immediate with my second and my third. But I think because I just wasn't ready and it was, it was frightening. Like the whole pregnancy, that first time, I just wasn't mentally ready for it. And so when he arrived, there was a sense of,

oh God, what now? And also the responsibility of like, I remember holding him going, I've got to keep you alive now forever. What the fuck? I don't know how to do. I don't need to get myself alive. Obviously I do. But so yeah, there is a lot of fear around pregnancy. And then, you know, it is normal to not feel that instant bond with a child. It's normal. It's okay. It did come later on. And it stayed forever. But yeah, it wasn't immediate. Crushing that you have Beyonce. I've had Molly May.

Right. Everybody's got a pregnancy Celebrity pregnancy buddy That doesn't know they exist But Moni's been quite honest actually on her YouTube She's been quite honest Has she? Yeah, yeah

She did that video a few weeks ago Saying that she was really overwhelmed By the thing And she's finding it really difficult Then she got a load of shit for that So I made a video about it Because she got so much Oh yes

Yeah, yeah I hate that that's such bad I piss me off so much Oh you've got the same 24 hours And everyone else It's just like So excited is the leading calls of Jeff the new mother's like, shut the fuck up.

Shut the fuck up. Exactly. I don't mean this in a patronising way, but she is really young as well. She's 23. Is she 23? She's like 26, but that is... She's so young. She's a baby. Yeah.

And people are still, actually, I've been really surprised by it because obviously like you kind of find your tribe when you have a baby, so I found like some of my tribe and my Instagram followers who also have babies in like January or February or whatever. And people are being a bit like, well, you know, I'm finding her Instagram stuff really unrelatable and it's like, same. She looks fucking great. but she doesn't owe anybody relatability. And I find it really interesting that we do this at every level,

particularly with babies, where we project our, or cling on to somebody or something. And then, because her YouTube is very different from her Instagram. It feels like her YouTube's where she's being really honest than her Instagram's where she's being like, which is the point.

That's the whole point. That is the whole point of Instagram. And that is her job. And, you know, like, she's, she, that, the fact that people can't see the pressure that she's under to do that on Instagram and then have a go. It just feels very,

But also the people that are making, like, you know, toxic comments towards her either don't, you know, they might not, they're not even a mother themselves. And it's just women being mean to other women, which is nothing that I cannot stand. No. It's like, just give her a hug. Give her a hug. Oh, just leave her alone. Oh, leave her alone. If you don't want to give her a hug, just leave her alone.

You don't have to give her a punch. Like, she's just had a kid. I know. But yeah, but she's being honest. So when Beyonce had her first and it was like everything was like rainbows and butterflies, I was like, my God, what's wrong with me? Why is it so hard? But I didn't have a tribe When I first had a baby

I didn't have anyone And in real life tribe Yeah, in real life online How old were you? When you had your first? Okay 31 And none of my friends had kids

I wasn't online I did go to NCT But I didn't gel with them Because I felt like Everyone was sugar-coating everything Everyone I felt like And I did say this to them

We would all meet up for coffees With our babies And everyone would be like Oh my God Oh, and it's amazing. My baby sleeps all night. And my husband's amazing. And maybe that is true.

And I was just like, do you know what? My baby doesn't sleep. I want to staple things to my husband's head. And this is shit. And then all of them are like, oh my God, me too. And I was like, we have to be honest with each other. We have to be like, we're in this together. I'm not going to sit and have coffee with you and go, my baby has already learned the alphabet.

You know, when like that, you know, it's just ridiculous. Also, it's not the very point of NCT friends. are the people who are in the trenches with you at that moment. Like, if you can't be honest with them. Is it? I didn't do NCC because I was scared. Oh, really? Yeah, because I had, because, because my pregnancy was so shit, not shit. That sounds really bad.

It wasn't, I kind of loved it, but I was also. It was really hard. It was really hard. Yeah. And I sort of didn't have the energy. And then I was really scared of being judged. And I think I was a bit scared that I wasn't loving being pregnant. So then I was like, well, I don't want to want to go there and sit with those people who are loving being pregnant.

Right. And mostly I haven't got the time on the energy. when she was born, and I was just like, I don't know. I've been very overwhelmed because I feel like everybody sugarcoats it. But that's a really weird part of, I feel like that's what your work on Instagram is combating this thing that, and I don't think it's NCT Mum's fault. I think women have to present themselves as holding it all together because that's what we're taught that our role is. It's what we're thought, yeah. So we have to do it well and it's horrible. Yeah, and I must admit, I'm very honest.

about most things to a point where I'm literally like, should I delete that? And I've realized that my core group of friends, they're really honest as well. And so, and I've, you know, we've been hanging out since we were at school. So when we're all together, it's just like, well, yeah. And we were all together last weekend. And it's almost like a therapy session.

We just like go, so what's, you know, how's this and how's that? And we're just like, well, this is shit. But that was all good. And I'm like, my God, I had that too. And I, and it's just on it. Whereas there are other women who won't say anything and then I don't know, I just feel, maybe it's just me, I just like being really honest and maybe that's why people like my Instagram, because it is honest, but then it's got a comedy twist on it. But I needed, as a new mother, I needed honesty. I needed to know that I wasn't alone.

I needed to know that it does get easier. Yes, it's hard now, but it does get easier or it's going to get harder again or it's okay. to argue with your partner and all these things that do ride with being a parent, it's okay. But, you know, at the time I was like, there's something wrong with me because I feel like I'm failing, but it turns out I wasn't. We were all not failing. We were all in it together. We were all on this journey together, this roller coaster ride. But at the time, I felt like I was the only one, but it turns out I wasn't, which was nice, comforting. If you don't mind, it would be good to talk about modelling, going into that a little bit if you don't mind.

Did you, did you like muddling? Do you like muddling? I love it now. I feel like the industry is a very different place now for the better. Like when I first started, it was mid-90s. It was, yeah, it was very much heroin chic. Everyone wanted to be like Kate Moss. If you weren't a certain size, you were just kicked out or told to lose weight, which I was. And it was a very, it was really difficult, it was really sad, it was lonely. And I really wanted to make my agents happy and kind of prove that I could do this and did develop an eating disorder.

And a lot of girls did. It just seemed the norm. And because I was living at home with my mum, I tried the whole starving yourself, but she would give me meals into the day and be like, eat your food. and I would start my day because you go on castings you go on like 20 castings a day so this is like before the internet so literally you had to go and meet people

all day every day and it was exhausting and so I would spend the day not eating to a point of like I'm going there were a few times where I did faint on the tube and then come home absolutely starving my mum would put a big meal in front of me And I'd be like, oh my God, yeah, I'd eat all of it.

And then obviously the fear of gaining any weight and the guilt of eating. So then I would throw it all up. And that was something that I continued to do for a long time and no one knew. And I didn't, you know, I did obviously lose weight, but I looked awful. And I wasn't getting the work. And I had lost all sense of confidence. and again, my identity was gone. And I was so young.

I was like 16, 17, and my friends were at college, having a great time and socialising and dating. And I was just this insecure, low-confidence wreck trying to please other people that I could be thin. And on top of that, I would be going to these castings and you'd meet people and they would be so rude. And they'd treat you like cattle. It's like, you know, turn around.

I got this and like very very very rude and again as a young teen you kind of engulf all of that and you believe it and so it got to a point why I just despised myself I was like I'm disgusting and because I wasn't getting the work I was like it was definitely something wrong with me so then the eating disorder would evolve and it got worse and then it just got to a point where I didn't know how I was going to get out. of it and it was normal it was almost like throwing up was as usual as or as normal as going to the gym it was just part of my day um so it was it wasn't it wasn't it wasn't particularly nice at all I didn't you know it wasn't I didn't tell anyone no one knew you kind of suffer silently I mean you've been there as well and it's um you just look back you just want to shake that girl and be like, the hell are you doing? But I know that other girls were doing it at the same time and no one really spoke about it, even though we all knew that we were doing it, no one spoke about it. But I remember like going to lots of castings and when you go pop to the loo,

you'd hear other girls just like in the loo just throwing up. It's awful, absolutely awful. And then I went to, my agency sent me to Australia for a while. And that was A bit better because I kind of felt like I fitted in a bit better. I was more of like the beach girl. You know, I had some boobs, which I kind of felt in the UK was a bit like, that's not the look right now. Isn't that insane? I know. I had boobs in the UK and it wasn't really the look.

So I had to go to Australia. Where being in a bikini with a bit of boob was normal, it was nice. So I worked there more than I did in the UK But I was still I was still doing all the throwing up and stuff And But it was a lot easier because I was away from home So I didn't have my mum's watchful eye or anything

But then I was like Added laxatives to the whole equation Oh gosh And I remember Eating like a whole thing of laxatives It wasn't pills It was like a bar and it said on the packet like have a mouthful and I took the whole thing

and then the next day oh my god I turned up at a train station and the pain the cramps I was like doubled over on the floor it was like being in labour it was awful and like trying to figure out where the nearest loo was and it was just a really rubbish time and I felt like I was constantly trying to prove myself to people I wanted people to think that I was good enough the whole time.

I didn't once stop to think, like, what's good for me? Like, is this working for me? It just wasn't, I think I was so young, and I really wanted it, and I kept seeing other girls doing really well, and I was like, why can't I get that? I just need to be thinner. I kind of thought all my problems would disappear if I was thinner. And I did get thin, but nothing changed because I had nothing.

I was just a shell. I was dead inside. I had nothing going on, which, of course, you know, you need that. need personality. You need that. You can't walk on set and just be like this ghost. And then when I came back from Sydney, I think being away from my family for a long time. And again, it was before social media. It was before FaceTime. It was before Skype. All these things. So I literally did not see my family face to face for a long time. And then when they saw me, they were all like, okay, you're sick. And you need help. And it was their help that.

got me through it and at the same time we got to point why I'd completely fallen out of love with modelling and I hated everything about it. I found it really toxic and it was a bit of a wake-up call to come home and for my family to greet me at the airport and for them to be like, we need to fix you, this isn't right. And then I spent two years working in an office I completely stepped away from the industry

and I spent two years working in an office and within that time I really felt like I was healing and accepting myself and leading like a normal life. I got a job and I was working in an office nine to five and I met people and we went for lunch and we went to the pub after work and it really felt lovely.

I really felt and I wasn't being judged with anything and it was lovely. And then as fate would have it, my boss was just signed off work with mental health issues, and he was just, we just went one day. I had no idea what was going on and he was gone. And I was his assistant. So then I was going to work with nothing to do.

And then the lady that I sat next to who was like my best friend in the office, she suddenly switched and she became this awful woman to me and like, started bullying me. So between her and my boss going, I was in this office space just going, well, what do I do now? And then a friend of mine who, who was at my agency previously said there's an agency that's just opened that caters for models who are curvier. And I was like, okay, I'll give that a go because I have nothing else to do. And very, again, out of complete like, well, I don't know what else to do. Sending some pictures and a bit nervous about it

because I didn't really want to go back into the industry. but I was so miserable in my office job at that point I thought I've got nothing to lose and then within after sending my pictures off within literally a couple of weeks they asked if I wanted to do a shoot and I was like yeah all right took the day off work

called in sick and just did this shoot and it was my first job as a curvia woman I was terrified to kind of step back into it again but it was wonderful and it was for marks and spencers so i'm forever grateful for them for being my first job back um and shooting me in my underwear looking just like me i didn't have to prove myself to anyone it was a beautiful shoot and um i think that if it wasn't for that job and for me feeling like it's so i'm i've been accepted and i'm now being celebrated rather than kind of penalised for like having an inch or centimetre or a millimeter too big um and so yeah so

I quit my office job and started modeling again and then did that for like 20 years and it was and that was what I enjoyed it because I was doing it as me I could be my size 14 with my e cup or f cup boobs forget what they are um and just be me and it was wonderful that I had the most amazing career and I'm so grateful for it. Amazing people, travelled the world and just represented women that are curvier. And what's wonderful is that I've seen the industry evolve so beautifully into more acceptance with all models of size, colour, ability, everything. And for that I'm really, really grateful for because when I first started, you had to be, you had to all be, identical. And I know that there are a lot of other girls out there who are either, you know, kind of been around as long as I have or just getting into the industry who may not have been given an opportunity back then but have now because I feel like so many more people are being accepted. You know, you can look on magazine covers. Like you wouldn't, you know, like test holiday on the cover of Cosmopolitan and.

You know, all these other amazing models, and it's just, it wouldn't have happened in, you know, before. And for that, I think is brilliant. I'm really pleased that it has evolved. And I'm pleased, I'm so grateful that now, even as I'm 43 and I'm a size 14 to 16, I'm still modelling. Like, that's kind of, you would never hear of that, like, 20 years ago. So that I'm really grateful for. So it went from being really shit to being really good. That's really cool.

That's great. And it sounds like even your whole demeanour changed when you were talking about like that, like the pre, model stuff and then like the now model stuff like it just it seems after your experience like it must have just been very liberating and just it was really liberating wonderful and I do look back to the times where it was really miserable and that was like a really quick summary of like 25 years but it was um yeah I remember turning 16 uh in Paris on my 16th birthday I was alone in Paris and I just starved myself and you know there was no mobile phones there was nothing and I was just put in this disgusting model flat with no one

and I was terrified and I didn't eat anything and it was my birthday and it was just like I shouldn't be like, what am I doing? And like my, now that I'm a mother myself, I want to protect my kids forever going through anything like that and for them to be honest and open with me and I kind of, I wish that I had opened up to my family more when it first happened

but I didn't want them to take away like my modelling dream I didn't want them to be like right you and I knew I know that they would have done so I didn't say anything but I do think it's made me stronger and made me realize who I am and you know who I want to be so you know again like we go through we had to kind of

be in the dark to sometimes see the light so yeah God I wasn't realizing how young you were when you're telling I was like 16, I didn't realize. God, that is so, so young. Yeah, you're still a child. You still haven't probably developed. Yeah, yeah. And I remember seeing myself, like I got my period quite late.

I got my period when I was 15 and a half. And I realized that as soon as I got that, I kind of noticed myself changing. And because my periods were really, really heavy, I went on the pill to kind of make them a bit lighter, which, of course, doing that made my boobs grow, made my hips grow, which was like, oh my God, this is horrendous. And I remember my agency were like, literally just like, this isn't working for us. I was like, it's my fucking body.

I can't. Like, puberty, nah. Yeah. It's like cat's puberty. Yeah. It's so disgusting. It's gross. And I wish that I had been strong enough to just stand up and say, fuck off, like, just fuck off. But I wasn't. And no one did. And there wasn't a platform like social media to stand up and say, this is wrong. And that is, again, where I'm really grateful for things. This is where social media is a really positive effect, because everyone has a voice, everyone can say, and so many people have been heard and made a difference and had that been around, you know, in the early 90s, maybe things would have been different for me.

But again, I feel like where I am now, this is where I'm supposed to be. And your whole journey is part of that. So crack on. Amazing. Looking at your social media now, because you've got a huge following, and I'm guessing it's mostly moms. Well, women, yeah. A lot of mums, yeah.

How do you find that to be? Do you find your social media presence, like, very positive, or do you have negativity within it as well? It's very, very positive. I'm very lucky, and I have, I've always said this, I've got such incredible followers, and I'm so thankful that they're all there on my journey with me. They're very, very positive and very lovely.

Of course you get, like, the odd comment here and there, But generally, really, really good, really positive. And I've learned that my page is about positivity. It's about being fun. I did post something a few years back. I think it was during COVID. I mentioned something that without me realizing it sparked a debate. And I was like, whoa, what's this?

I don't want this. and people that didn't know each other were arguing with each other under my post and it got to a point where it got quite nasty and I was like, you know, I'm just going to delete the post because I'm not here for debates

that's not my account so I just deleted it and then I just learned, you know, it's just a lesson learned like maybe don't, I don't talk about politics on my page. I generally don't like talking about politics generally, especially around my family

because everyone's got a different opinion and no one, you know, every, We talked about politics at the weekend with my friends and even then, like, it gets heated. So I just think, just, no, that's not what my page is about. But, yeah, I say my followers are lovely, really nice. I like to beat them all.

That's great. Yeah. It is nice. I think going back to what I said right at the beginning, like the mum space is painted as being so negative. Like the preconceptions people have about NCT, the way that mothers are written about treated by society, the way that mum fluences are talked about

and kind of disrespected, I guess, and just not to, I don't know, it can look and feel really negative. But I've found since I've been born, everyone has been fucking lovely. Yeah, there is definitely a downside to it. But I don't know, I kind of feel I, maybe I'm just blind,

but I feel like my followers on my page have been lovely. that I think what we have to remember as well I was like we're the first generation of parents online so we're seeing for the first time inside people's houses and holidays and what your kids done for their homework and all these things and it's so easy to compare which if you see a family doing something marvellous

and you're at home and they're at a zoo at the weekend and you're at home doing nothing because you haven't got the end. or you can't afford it or something, then that can spark off a bit of jealousy and all that jazz, and there is a lot of comparison. With anything, though,

you know, even the way that people give birth, but then at the same time, there can be such pros and cons with being moms online. There can be a lot of dark spaces, but then I think at the same time, I found it helpful for me. Like when I had my baby

and I really did feel alone, and then I joined social media to almost find something to help me and then I found Mother Pucker and she was one of the first accounts that I followed and she made me feel normal like I wasn't alone she posted this picture of she had her pram

and in the cup holder she had a bottle of wine and I was like that I can relate to that's great and then I just found myself following accounts that made me feel like I wasn't a loser in my parenting journey. But also what we have to remember is I feel like we should all look at Instagram as like our own personal magazine. We have the power to choose to follow accounts or delete accounts. And I only like to follow accounts that I feel like really inspire me or I like the account or so when I'm

scrolling through Instagram I see things that I like immediately. And I think if there's any accounts that triggers anything in anyone that makes them feel shit about themselves or whatever, like just step away from it. Or if you can't delete it because you know them or whatever, you can just mute them. Like there's a lot of things that we can do to protect ourselves from feeling shit online. And I've said that to a lot of people who have said to me, or this person's making me feel really uncomfortable, made me shit about myself. And I'm just fucking delete them.

Yeah. Like it doesn't matter. Like, this is your personal account. You know, you don't have to be online. It's a choice. Yeah. So choose who you want to follow. And it's not on them.

It's not on the person that they're talking about to make you feel better. And when I first joined Instagram as well, I used to feel quite hurt if someone unfollowed me. But now, I'm like, it's fine. It's almost, it's fine. Yeah. It's a good thing. It's a good thing.

It's a good thing. Yeah. If I've triggered something or if you're sick of me or you're sick of the little hands, then fine. It's fine. Louise, we can't let you go without talking about your brilliant new book. Please can you tell us all about it, where people can find it, when's it out, plus everything. Yeah, thank you. So it's called Mumma's Still Got It and it's out June the 8th. You can pre-order now on Amazon. And it's funny. It's a book on parenting in the parenting year. So it starts in the parenting school year. So it starts in September when everyone goes back to school. You've got this all to come. Or you both do. And ends in August. And it's all the things that we go through within the school year. And there's so much, you know, Easter,

World Book Day, Halloween, birthdays, play dates, swimming. I mean, there's so much. It's exhausting thinking about it. So it's all in the book, and it's all written in a very lighthearted, comedic way that hopefully parents can relate to. A lot of it is my reels in a written version. It's the kind of book that you can just pick up and put down. It'd be great for summer holidays,

because it's that in June, take it away with you. And also what's quite special about it is I've asked my husband to do a right of reply because obviously I bash him a lot in the book. A few home truths come out and he's done his right of reply. And we didn't read each other's sections until now. Oh my gosh. And it's fascinating. I bet.

Reading what he said about me. because obviously I do shit that I didn't realize it's annoying. I can't believe you'd done this for the first time in a book. Yeah. Because you can't delete a book. No, you can't. And yeah, there's stuff that I do. And I'm not going to give anything away.

Like, you have to buy it to read it. And there's also the audiobook, and he's done the audio as well. But then also my mum's done a chapter on her take on grandparenthood. and how different it is now compared when she was a mother and it's fucking hilarious honestly like it's so funny

so the whole so it's you know I want to blow me and trumpet but it's a great book to buy and I'm really you know I'm really proud of it you know I've always wanted to write a book and it's like having another baby

like writing a book is like you've got the whole process that feels like a pregnancy and it's and the birth of holding it It's great. It's so cool. Honestly, it's such a good book.

I was lucky enough to get a manuscript. And like I said before, I feel like I can relate, even though I can't. I definitely can't. But it's just so good and so down to earth, but just fucking hilarious. And yes, everyone needs a copy. We're going to leave the link to pre-order in the show notes. Oh, thank you very much. And thank you so much for being here.

It's just wonderful having you. Thanks, ladies. It's been awesome. Thank you. Should I delete that is part of the ACAS creator network.