Should I Delete That? - My big boobs with Jackie Adedeji

Episode Date: November 6, 2023

This week on the pod, Em and Alex are joined by the brilliant Jackie Adedeji. When Jackie was 11, she woke up to find she had FF cup boobs. She was unable to do the things her peers around her were doing, limited by the size of her breasts. Jackie was shamed into feeling as though her breasts made her a burden, and strongly considered getting a breast reduction. However, she decided practiced body neutrality as a stepping stone towards self acceptance. Jackie is now thriving, but it isn't always easy. Her energy is joyous, and you can follow her on Instagram @ohmygoshitsjackie or check out her Channel 4 documentary here: https://www.channel4.com/programmes/my-big-boobs-untold/on-demand/74692-001Follow us on Instagram @shouldideletethatEmail us at [e-mail] by Daisy GrantMusic by Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Anything to squash them down. And it was just about craving normality. I just want to be like everyone else. And that's how much having big boobs is like makes you feel like you are living in a completely different existence to everyone else. Hello and welcome back to Should I Delete that. I'm Alex Light. And I'm in Clarkson. How are you out?

I've got a creaky chair. And you know, every time we record, Daisy says, try not to creaky chair, but I always do. There's two people sitting on that chair right now. Oh, that's freaky. That's freaky. That, what? Yes, okay.

You're like a Russian doll over there. You know, I keep seeing people, someone said to me the other day, oh, when your baby's earth side. Have you heard that? Yeah, are you kidding? I was like, well, there is on the earth right now. No, but they're not earth side. They're outside right now.

Yeah. Earth's side. to the outside. But like, everyone listening has just turned it off. Yeah, including me. I'm not acknowledging. If you talk about where they are

in terms of the universe, they're on Earth. Anyway, I don't know. I just don't know why I feel pedantic about that, but anyway. Pick your battles. Pick my battles, stupid. Anyway, any goods?

Yes, yes. Speaking of, actually, my good is going to annoy you immensely. Oh. My baby has been Earthside for nine months. That was such a good Segre. Thank you so much.

Thank you for the round of applause. Oh my God. Nine months in, nine months out. She's been out for longer than she was. I mean, she actually, she came out like eight and a half months because she was impatient. So it doesn't really apply, but I still like the like nine months and nine months out thing. Because it was a bit pedantic to be like eight in a few days. So, yeah.

I'm celebrating now. She's nine months. I can't believe that. Cannot believe it. I'm a kid. eats, like she just eats food now, claps, kind of nearly walks. It's really weird. Like, it was one thing having a baby. No one told me that one. I was like, oh, I'm going to have a baby. I didn't be like, I'm going to have a kid. No, that wasn't my thought I was getting into. It's nuts.

And she's only going to get bigger. Toddler. And then teenager. What the fuck. I know. But then I'll be a pensioner in a minute. So that's going to be old. So, you know what I mean? Like I saw an old man earlier. and I was like, oh my God, he wasn't always old? Isn't that so funny? Like, so an old man walking down the road, and I was like, you were young once, weird. You were a baby once, that's weird. Yeah, weird.

So weird. Sometimes I look at Dave and I think you were a baby once, and I find that really inconceivable that Dave was once a baby. Do you know what I mean? I think, such a serious baby. So serious. But do you think, Dave out of everyone feels weird as a baby?

Like, he's just so not a baby. I tell you what, a massive part of that is because he's called Dave. Like, you just never meet a baby called Dave. Imagine his baby Dave. His baby Dave. Do you know what? I know someone. I don't know them.

It's like, it's like a friend of a friend of a friend. And they've called their baby Nigel. It's a really nice name. It's just not a baby's name. It's not a baby's name. It's like Graham or like Derek. Yeah, or Mike. Yeah.

It's Mike one of, the, is Michael from the Bible though? I feel like I'll make that. Yeah, yeah. No, no, but Michael, fine. Mike. Yeah, Mike. It's just not. It's since David's all right. David's taking for a baby, but Dave, it's just

it's fine. Yeah, I just feel like no one calls their baby David anymore, do they? No, I don't, I think David's pretty consistent. I just think there are some names that, like Phil, I can't imagine like a baby, Phil, I can't imagine a baby Jeremy. No.

No. For me it's Graham. I think Graham's like the funniest. His baby Graham. Yeah, it's just like they'll grow into them. But it's like, yeah. Oh, too, I've just seen in the news, David Mitchell's wife has had a baby and she's 51. No way. It's amazing. Yeah, she's had a baby last week. Yeah. I know. She's had a baby. I made me think of it because, I think the baby's called June. And I was like, oh, that's a name you don't really hear anymore. Anyway, I always got distracted. Have you got anything good? Sorry. Well, congratulations to you for keeping a human alive for die months. Earth side. That's very, very clever.

My good, my good is that I've discovered Bake Off. I know that sounds weird because... No, I know. No, I know. I know. And we've had Bake Off Realty on the podcast in the form of Laura Adlington, who we love. Great, great interview. I'm trying my absolute best to get one of this years, two of this year's contestants on the pod.

I would fucking love that. Oh my God, it's so good. It's so good. I feel like baking is going to become a new thing now. I'm obsessed. And I learned that desserts is stressed backwards. Who knew? I didn't. And I just think it's the best show. No, I go too hard too soon. I'm not going to say that actually. But I think it's very good show. It is a very good show. I agree. Alison Hammond was born for that role. I'm really enjoying. She's great. And I love Noel Fielding. I love him. He's so nice. There's an Instagram account just dedicated to Norfielding's jumpers and it's actually the best thing I follow because he always wears the best. I know, I know, I know. The best.

I want them all. I know, I followed the account for like four years because it's just a really good jumpers. I need to find it, send it to me. Yeah, I will do. Anything bad, I think awkward? Yeah, my bad is that the baby that has been hit her side has been poorly, which has been horrible. Poorly little girl.

I know, we're not going to dwell because she's like totally fine. Yeah. but we had to go to A&E last night, which was, like, awful. So scary. Stressful, yeah, and just like, not really stressful, but she's fine. So, yeah, it's just so hard.

You just can't communicate with them. You can't be like, you're right, you're right. Yeah, what you're feeling? What's wrong? Yeah, yeah, what I'm talking about. She's going to be like, guess you, that sounds really scary. But she's fine, she's cool. She's an absolute little trooper thriving.

We've heard her, while we've been on this call, we've heard her proper belly laughing with Alice. I was saying that's the doctor because they were like, how is she? And I was like, yeah, I mean, like, cackling. She's fine. Yeah, she's like, covered in a rash. But she's fine.

She works all kinds of wrong. But internally, she's absolutely thriving. My bad, I feel bad about my bad now because it doesn't quite measure up. They're good. We've got a lot of flies in the house. I feel like I tempted something, taking the piss out of you and all the flies.

them to you. I actually think you did. They're everywhere though and they're big like blue bottle tit or whatever they are like huge flies everywhere. I don't get it. And Betty's eating them.

That is hilarious. It's one of my favorite things in the world to watch is dogs eating flies. It's so sweet. But at the same time when she actually gets it, I'm like, that's disgusting. I let Nick Linder all over them.

gross yeah sneezing Susan yeah yeah oh my god yeah my mouth still not recovered see baby Linda

baby Susan you don't see imagine many of them around no you don't do you like Susan baby yeah baby Susie that's fine Linda I can't imagine

it's a baby but then I can see her as an adult no drama Baby Margaret Baby Margaret no Margaret's okay because then you got Maggie I love Maggie

I actually I know a girl who's called Barbara and she's called like Barbie for short and I love that. Love Barbie, so cool. I know a dog called Barbie, we call her Bab. But I feel like if you had a baby now and named it Barbie, it'd be like, oh, you've just named it after the pipe of the Barbie movie.

Do you know what I mean? It's a shame really. Which did come out on my birthday, so it's kind of my right. That is definitely your right then. And I'm willing to lend you the right if you want to name your baby Barbie. Thanks, thank you. Let's see how Dave. It feels about that one.

Don't tell you. Just do it. Awkward. so hit me right well I was going to tell you about the fact that this morning I ended up on a walk with a woman that I just didn't mean to you know and you fall into stride with someone and then you've kind of match each other's pace perfectly and it's like absolutely the worst and you're like I hate that this has happened I hate it and she had a buggy as well and it was like oh there is no quick overtake here this is awful anyway um that would have been my awkward

if it weren't for the fact this this should have been my good my bad and my awkward all but balled into one good yeah I didn't have an infected toenail it was was just ingrown. Bad. I told everybody that I had an infected toenail when it was just ingrown. Awkward.

I have not shot up my fucking toenail. And I hate myself for it. But anyway, I went to the place I had it removed and I've got my life back. I feel fucking stunning.

If I hear you say toenail one more time. Honestly, fair enough. Fair enough. It was the fucking worst, but it's over now. But it's over now. Exactly.

God's not. That was lovely Thank you. Thank you. My inner Celine came out. She was great. I'm pleased for you. I'm mainly pleased for me and all of our listeners

who can stop hearing about your fucking toenail now. Gross. Yeah, all right, fly, fly over there. Fair, fair. My awkward is an old awkward that came to me in the middle of the night. A lot came to me in the middle of the night last night, actually. I dreamt that we were recording

and it didn't record and it freaked me out. Anyway, I can't believe I haven't talked about this one because I actually feel quite mortified thinking back about it. I'll keep it quick. But basically, when I was in my first trimester and I was like 70, 80% sick, but like 20, 30% ravenous, like horrendously hungry. Like, if I don't eat now, I might die. Weird. Like, just very strange. And I was, we were in the studio at two and I was coming to meet you for lunch at one.

and I got stuck on the train and I hadn't eaten all day because I felt too sick to eat and I'd gotten so, so, so hungry on the train but because I was late I didn't have time to come to the restaurant so you got me a burger and got me a takeout burger

and on the way and I, so I met you outside the restaurant and I was like, fuck I was like, I'm so hungry on the way to the studio we were like we'll stop for a coffee stop to grab a takeaway coffee when you were in the queue for the coffee I was like I can't wait any longer

so I sat down in this cafe eating a burger that was like opened this burger up that wasn't from the cafe and I ate like like I went completely feral and I acted like I was like I was eating like I hadn't eaten for like a like in forever and you knew I was pregnant so that was kind of okay but the girls we were with didn't know I was pregnant and I just remember looking up and seeing one of them looking at me in absolute horror it was like the burgers all over my mouth and like throwing it in my gob and I actually still feel uncomfortable about that and I've never texted her to say look I just can I just let you know that I was

just pregnant that time and not just like I feel like it's a good idea for you to do that because actually I remember I'd completely forgotten about this but if I close my eyes I can actually picture you there you didn't even say anything you just dropped out the queue and just sat by yourself at a table and we're all

talking and else by herself it's literally like when we used to go to the supermarkets and we were kids and my brother just had had enough he would just sit He would just literally sit down in the aisle and he'd tuck his feet underneath him and he'd just sit and I've always got this image of him like sitting there looking like a pectionate little boy

because that's what he was and that's kind of the mental image that transcends Except I was like rabid Yeah and not a child And desperate And not a child importantly And 35

Yeah exactly So I'm going to message her And I feel like I needed to bring that because that was awkward. That was horrible afterwards. Even like as the food settled and I start to feel better again, I was like, I really regret that actually. I should have waited like two to three more minutes. And I'd be fine, yeah. Okay, so there you go. That's my old awkward. Oh, I've forgotten about that. Thanks for that. That's nice for me. You're welcome. I feel a little hot and bothered. Today we are talking about boobs. Tilly, baby. Boobes. So we're really excited for this.

episode. We talked about boobs a while ago and is it just me and actually we didn't really do the conversation justice and we had some DMs afterwards and it just made us realise that we wanted to have this conversation properly. So there was only one woman for the job. Yes. Jackie Adedgedy who did a documentary about big boobs for Channel 4 and has done a lot of research on big boobs and it was a brilliant conversation and if you listen to the end you can hear her make a beat with her boobs. Need we say anymore? No. Clap it out, Al. Get the girls to work. Here's Jackie. Hi. Hi. Thanks so much for coming. Thank you for having me on. We are going to talk about boobies today. Boobes. Boobes. Don't do that. We can. Do what you want.

But we, the reason we wanted to do this episode is because Al and I talked about is it just me a few months ago now I guess and we kind of talked about like having grown up with big boobs and how actually neither of us really liked it we got some shit for that episode what you mean yeah we got some feedback which I just think it was interesting and that's why we wanted to have this like conversation because it was like some a lot of people like yeah we get it like and then there were some people who basically felt that it wasn't very body positive of us to not like our boobs which is kind of fair enough so we kind of wanted to like

have the conversation with someone that does this conversation. Yeah, exactly. Well, thank you. I'm having to be part of this discussion. I'm excited. I feel like boobs are such a big part of my life. Yeah. Talking about them, being shamed for them, all sorts. So. Yeah. And you've done the documentary, haven't you? Yes, my big boobs, which I did for Channel 4, which came out in May this year. And that was really exploring the way British women in particular feel about having big boobs. Because I think there's a misconception that if you've got big boobs, that you love it or like, I don't know, you, I mean, to be fair, there's been times where I've defo, like, got free entry to places or whatever, but there's this idea that, oh my God,

your boyfriend is so lucky, like, your life must be so easy. And actually, it's like, well, no, because we never ask for this. And actually just the kind of adultification, the sexualising of our bodies, being seen as an object is the part that I don't think a lot of people really see and understand. I was really struck with watching your documentary. Well, I guess, it was the um for the person who had crowdfunded so i get my words out who'd crowdfunded to have a breast reduction and then had had so much sexualization and they're like i'll donate to you if you send me a photo of your boobs and it's kind of mad that like we like disregard that's kind of the main takeaway for me it it's like we disregard how women actually feel about it and still

revere it as like this like perfect what a woman should have yeah so it's completely irrelevant how she feels about it. Yeah. It's like she's got this thing and she should be grateful for it and she should use it but in the right ways. Yeah.

It's, I think also when you think about boobs in a kind of British context, like boobs are quite funny, right? It's like when you think about carry on and like, ooh, what a lovely pair. Like, do you remember like nip slips and stuff in magazines like back in the day?

That was like, I think boobs are seen as quite funny. And so because it's, yeah, fun bags. Yeah. Like the seaside postcards, all that kind of stuff. So I feel that when you've, got big boobs it's you're not really seen as I think of sometimes you're not seen as a human

being you're almost seen as like a something to like comment on or laugh at or you become like the butt of the joke so your pain isn't taken seriously because it's like oh but you've got all these big bags like you know how can your life be so hard and it's like well you're forgetting I'm a human being underneath all of that so and you know Laura who was the girl in the documentary that had the crowd fund I mean she was I was just disgusted at the fact that she's just in such pain and people are like, oh, that's so sad. Show us a picture of your tits, though. Like, come on.

Yeah, it's so great. You know, and the fact that she even had to do a crowd funder, you know it's bad if she's having to do that. Imagine, like, going to work and everyone, that's in the paper. Yeah. You know, it's like not ideal, but she had no choice. Yeah. So, it's really sad.

Yeah, it really is. So from your research and everything you did around the documentary and the people that you spoke to, and I'm interested in you saying British women's, like, attitude towards having big boobs and does like is it generally negative or generally positive and does that differ to like different countries and different cultures? I think I mean in America it's quite similar because obviously they've got I mean they don't have really a healthcare system out there so you have women with big boobs who are struggling the same way except they there's no alternative it's just get alone or something so yeah I would say generally a lot of women with big boobs are

satisfied with their boobs. Most women I've spoken to because I did this big buzz and brunch in the summer, just for women of big boobs. And most of the women there were women from age 18 to 45. And a lot of them were like, I hate my boobs. I've never liked my boobs. So because I also think that there's not that many role models, but also it's incredibly expensive.

When you have big boobs, it's not just like, it's like buying the right bra. It's the right gym kit. You know, there's so many things. Everything just costs money. So if you haven't got money, then you're going to struggle. And a lot of women are wearing the wrong bra. Yeah. So there's that too.

I really want to talk about that bit, but I'm just really struck by like what you're saying about role models as well. And I feel like it's actually, it's a complete paradox. Like we're not going to have a positive role model because any woman that empowers themselves around their boobs is instantly labeled as a slut or as easy or as provocative. Exactly. Yeah. So it's like you can't.

You can't, you know, you say that all those women at their brunch hated their boobs. And it's like, well, of course they did. Because if they were ever to say, I like them, like imagine how they'd be treated. Oh, yeah. Well, exactly. You know, growing up, my role models were like, I don't know, well, Katie Price, Joe Demarsh, because they were the only women, even though their boobs weren't real, they were the only women who I saw who were flaunting it and owning it because there was no other,

there was nothing else that that was it. So for me, I decided that, right, I'm going to take it upon myself and empower myself because I was shamed so much by family members and my dad's a priest. So, you know, in the church, don't wear this, dress modest, don't do this, don't do that. So much policing and censorship. And I was like, ah, like I need to liberate myself. But again, that comes with for anyone when it comes at a cost. And so, you know, it is, there is a lack of role models and that's why I wanted to do the

documentary. And that's why I'm someone that owns it because, there's nowhere else, there's no one else really, I think, who's like doing it at a kind of larger scale and is embraced and is embraced. And so it's, yeah, I think having big boobs is, it's a struggle. It really is a struggle. And like, I own it and I make it look easy, but it's not always easy, you know, sometimes I'm like, when you get stared at or I don't know, I'm at the beach. I went to India for Christmas last year, 10 guys staring at me. And I was like, I was so angry

because I was like, you're not going to make me feel like shit. Like, we're not, I'm not going through this shit again. So I was just like, had a go at them. And like, my husband was like, why, like, just, I'm like, no, no, because this kind of stuff can set you like five years back. And you go, right, that's it. I'm not wearing a swimsuit at the beach again. And I'm just tired.

I've had so many moments like that. I'm just, like, tired of it. So, yeah, I just try and do this for all the women that feel like they need, they need to be empowered because it's really hard, you know. I love that. Because it is hard. I mean, I, I think we talked about it on that episode, but like I developed really early before anyone else,

like did that thing where, you know, if you can hold a pencil. Yes. Underneath you need a bra and I was like six. I needed one. Not actually. Not actually six. I made that up, sorry.

Older than that. But still, I developed really early. And then I was, it never felt, the attention never felt, positive. Yes. It always felt really negative. Yes. Like the girls, my peers who were girls were like fascinated by them and so were the boys but like in different ways but I like honestly developed this like hunch because I was just trying to like hunch my shoulders over to like hide my boobs and eventually I got a breast reduction. Did you? Yeah. When I was 25 I think maybe a little bit older than that. They've grown back since, which is a thing. Yes, I did hear about this. I didn't know

happens. Yeah, but they've grown back since. Yeah, I wasn't able to get mine on the NHS. Yes, on the NHS. Really hard. Yeah, but I was lucky enough to be able to do it and like it was and I think probably that's some of the shit we got as well as like it was so good for me, the breast reduction. It was so positive and made me feel like so much better and so much less conscious. But then I guess it is sad to say that, isn't it? Because it's like, that's not my... You know what?

I don't think you have to... Well, it's like loving your body. You don't have to love every single part of yourself. I think it's like making peace with it. But I think with your boobs, every person has a different relationship with their boobs or their chest. So it's hard when we live in a society where you'll punch down if you embrace them or you'll punch down if they're just there anyway,

even if... Because they seem to be taking up space. So I think it's, you know, it's a complicated relationship, I think lots of people have with their chest. And it's also like, it's unreal, actually, when you think of when you break it down. But like, when we go through puberty is the time that we're actually first being aware of like the magazines telling us that we should be thin or like the culture around like how we should be. And it's like, we grow. Like, I was the same as you're like, I woke up one morning just, I went from an A cup to an E cup literally overnight. Yeah.

Scared the shit out of me. It's like, oh. But you develop all these curves. And in doing so, you break away from the beauty standard that you're being told you need to be adhering to, which is for us particularly, actually, you know, it's the same, always the same, you need to be thin. And as you start getting these curves, like you, there's literally no blueprint for it

because it all happens at a different time. You don't speak to your friends about it. And you feel like somehow you're failing at looking the way that you should look if you're trying to control, which I definitely felt at that time. And then, but I did the opposite of you, like I didn't hunch it. I felt so like, when I was at school, so, what are you going to do? Like, I, my uniform, I couldn't do up the button over the top because then you get the gate.

Yeah, the gate. So then you had to have it too low. And then it's like, but if it's too, then you've got your boobs up, but it's like, I can't, I don't really know what to do. Yeah. And I hated how it looked when it was all like bunched up and up and up. And it's like, I looked better with the, with the proper neckline. So I would just have it open because I wanted to look better.

and that's the other thing that you kind of then with hindsight you find yourself apologising for where you were like I did get my boobs up because I didn't know what to do with them and in a really weird way they were being revered by my peers and they did make me attractive and not necessarily in the way that I wanted

and I actually never felt positive like you I never felt positive about them but I did feel like well I've got something like that I should have which is a good thing but I don't actually think I liked it do you know what I mean? Yeah yeah

I was getting the attention which felt right. Like, I felt like I should be getting attention. Like, it's such a complicated relationship that young women have with the male gays. Yeah, oh my God, yeah. And that's, like, it's so messy. Yeah. So that's why I kind of, I didn't resent that we got shit. I get that we get shit.

But I'm like, it's so complicated. And we're talking about, like, we, this are formative years. And it does make it complicated. Oh my God, totally. I can totally relate. I mean, it was the same for me. I went from being like 11 years old, waking up. And I had like double F.

I was the 30 double F. by the time I was 11 years old. Wow. Which was just like insane. And then I went from like hiding where my dad's jumpers and hoodies like in the summer. I was always hot but I just did not want anyone to look at me. And then by the time I was about 15, 16, the kind of boys in my school,

you know, that's when they're like, oh, instead of like laughing at me for having big boobs, it was like, oh, they're now a bit more interested, you know. And so I just totally embraced that. Like when it was, we used to go to this place. It's called like liquid, which is like, it's like, it's like, a club for under 18s, but they don't sell alcohol as like juice and Pepsi. And I would always have my boobs out and that guys would be talking to, I mean, they're talking to be talking to my boobs, but I'm like, yeah, like this is my time.

But at the same time, I felt like a bit, a big sense of shame for like enjoying it, but also the shame of like that I shouldn't be doing this and that my boobs are wrong and that I'm wrong. And it's a responsibility as well. Like you're so, you make yourself so responsible for the men around you because you're so aware that like you're quote unquote asking for it. Yeah. It's such a mess. And if anything happens to it was your fault.

Yeah. Why did you get them out? Yeah. Yeah. It's hard to shift that, shift your mind because I think you can feel empowered and then it only takes like one comment or someone to say something to you and then you're like, oh, you take the blame for things that have. And I've definitely done that.

I've taken the blame for things that have happened to me. That actually not my fault. But it was this shame from like people in my life who have told me that like me, like me having my boobs out means this or it means you're asking for it or it means you're provocative and stuff like that. So it's really. And then, you know, with shame, shame has to go somewhere. When people want, you know, when it comes to shame, a lot of the shame, I had to remove myself from other people's preconceived ideas about me or what I should be doing because I realise that's your stuff. Like I need to work out what I'm doing over here because it's like

when people pass their shame on to you, whether that's how they feel about boobs or their bodies, you then digest that and start carrying this heavy load that actually has nothing to do with you in the first place so I had to really remove myself from that and work out like who is Jackie like what is my relationship with my boobs how can I find peace of this and just make it work for myself really because and then and that's why I feel free in myself because how I feel about myself is how I feel

it's not because someone else has made me feel this way you know and that for me was taking my power back which you know my dad loved so much Did you ever think about a breast reduction? Yes, many times, many times, many times, yeah, many times. What was your conclusion on that? Well, actually, I got a, when I was maybe 19 or 20, I actually went to the NHS and I was like, you know,

and I said, like, I wanted to get a breast production done, but they had told me after a series of sessions that my BMI was too high. So I would need to stay at a consecutive weight. Is it 26 or 20s? 27, it has to be below. I think it's below 27, I think. Yeah. And then they said that I have to stay at a consecutive weight.

By that time, I think I was going to university, and I was like, oh, do you know what? So I went to uni and then like started, just had a whole new identity. I was like, do you know what, I'm going to start fresh. But then I had it, and then I forgot about it, and I kind of started to embrace my boobs. And then when I finished uni, I was like, oh, I don't know if I want this anymore. went for a consultation and the guy was actually like wow like you you would look so much slimmer with smaller boobs and I was like okay okay but then that made me feel really uneasy because I'm like I was thinking to myself well if I get a breast reduction like would

I actually be happy like would that then because a lot of the women that I've spoken to have said well yes you get the breast reduction but that doesn't mean mentally that your mind your mind actually sometimes is like as if you still got big boobs. So I was trying to actually, I need to get my head right before I start making any decisions. And then when I did, I realised that actually the only reason I wanted to get a breast reduction was because I felt that I would be less of a problem

if I got one to everyone, rather than actually that is what I want. And when I realised that actually fundamentally that isn't what I want, then I didn't look into a breast reduction again. But look, never say never. Who did you feel like a problem to? just I mean family yeah family and you know growing up in a I mean my parents are like pretty liberal

but I think growing up in a church environment there was always this you know in fact I remember vividly even being 21 22 and coming home and then like my mum's like oh can you just like cover yourself up a bit or people being like oh like can you not not wear that and all this stuff and it just eats away at you

eats away at you and then I just thought well if I get rid of them then like everyone will just basically f-ar-of and I could just get on with, I could just get on with my life. Because there's always not, not as much now, but at least at that time, even if I wore something like this, so I'm wearing like a mesh top, I felt that it was wrong because it was like, that's the first thing people notice when they see you. It's like, why are you wearing that, you know, or your boobs are huge in that? It was always that. I'm thinking, oh my God, like, you didn't even say hello to me. It's like, you know? It's very dehumanizing.

Oh, my God. You don't even see me as a human being. And I think because boobs are so, they're very, they're physical, they're out there, that people do feel that they have a say because, well, they're there. So why not? You put them out there, so therefore I can comment on it. Yeah. So it's really, you know, everything from girls' toilets.

I mean, I've had it all. Getting boobs groped, you know, all of that. I mean, it's, but I feel so much more confident in being like, no. Like before, I guess I would just let it happen because it's like, okay, well, It's all happening so quickly. So, but now I'm like, no, don't do that. Yeah, you know, because I'm like... And that is so brutal being told to like,

well, could you just cover them up a bit? Oh my God, yeah. Because, I mean, we've talked about like dressing consciously to either, like, show off your boobs or to cover them. But actually, it's really hard, like, it's very difficult to dress, quote unquote, modestly. Yeah, whatever that means. When you have big, what, exactly, when you have big boobs.

Because it's like, kind of no matter what you, they're there. Like, you say they're physical, they're there, they're big, like, There's not really much you can do. And if you wear something that someone with really small boobs wears at the same, it's not going to look the same. Oh my God, no. It's going to look completely different. It's going to look like you're like getting your boobs out and showing them off.

And it's just like I'm just wearing like a vest top. Exactly. And we weren't even allowed. I'm just trying to remember thinking back as when we were kids. Like I remember having bra strap, like being in trouble, not in trouble, but like having it commented on, like you're showing your bra strap. Yeah. But it's like, but if you don't.

wear a bra you can't not wear a bra so what are you going to do yeah yeah I remember my mom bought me my mom because my mom was amazing my mom had massive boobs as well put her on blast my mom had massive big my mom had really big leaves as well um and I remember like she was really good if I hadn't have had it I actually wouldn't have known what to do but she like went to but I hated that because then she went to like all my friends would go to like top shop and get the little like any bitty brunma. Yeah, the cute ones. I'm sure.

I could have never. Miss it. And I'd be in the like fig leaves. Like no shade. I love fig leaves, but like the industrial. Oh yeah. Yeah.

Thick. Strap. Yeah. Heavy duty. Oh my God. And it's beautiful. I had like a cone bra that was from M&S. My mom was like, it'll keep you secure.

I'm like, this is nasty. Like this is not even cute. In like the beige. The beige. Yeah. I was like it's giving granny. Like this is. too young, yeah, the vest top, the crop top vibe, the, the vest top, I missed that

whole era. Like, I was straight to the big, big bras. I was like, damn. But now I just, I do it even though they look saggy, it's fine. If I remember right, I think top top top only went up to a C. Yeah. And I remember just like, gazing at them being like, I could never, but, like, they're so pretty. Yeah, they were so pretty. Like neon pink flower. I know. Yeah. Yeah. All of the, I mean, I remember, do you remember Lescenza? I, they only went up to a D. D. Yes. Did they? Oh my God, I would never wonder, that makes a lot of sense for how my cleavage, how my cleavage materialised. Because I had this, I've still got it.

I've got this neon green, listen. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. I need to find that for a video. Yeah, like neon green. Love. But I, I remember wanting that and just, like, and I, and it was, it's so hard because you don't want, like, it's like the, the, um, the punishment is the cone bra and the, like,

M&S, you know, like beige, beige, beige. Yeah. And it's actually so, like, unfair at a time when you're trying to, you want your, you want a kid to love themselves. But that is something, but then you've got everybody being jealous. You know, you can't not like it because all the other girls are like, but I want what you've got, like, you've got big boobie. You know, this is a good thing.

It's such a confusing time. So confusing. And it's, yeah. It actually makes me angry the more I look back at it. And then the, the paradox, which I don't think I've ever really worked out in my head between, and maybe it's the difference between the male gaze and the female gaze, but like on one hand, it's good to have big boobs. You get all the, like, you know, I'm saying this as like, yeah, you get all the male attention and, you know, it's fun and it's exciting.

You've got these big boobs. But on the other hand, like you said, you look slimmer when you've got smaller boobs. Like, it's hard to look slimmer. It's hard to look slimmer. It's hard to look slim when you have big boobs. You have to wear certain, you have to wear things that like going on your waist and things like that. And for that, I think for that reason, but that's such a weird dichotomy, isn't it? That's so strange. And then, but this is the impossible standard.

Yeah. Like, this is why we would never go. And I think this all comes to us at a time when, as was the point I was kind of trying to make earlier and kind of butchered. But like, it comes to us at a time where puberty is happening and we have no idea, we are supposed to look like this one ridiculously specific thing. Yeah. But you can't please anybody actually in trying to get it.

Because you have to be super thin, but then you've also got to have the curves, but in exactly the right proportion in the right places. And this is all happening while everything's fucking sprouting out of everywhere. Like you're spotting your gaming weight. And then, you know, on one hand, you've got like figures like Kate Mosses that were idolized, like the quote unquote heroin she.

Yeah. You know, like really, really slim and no hard. any boobes whatsoever like that was really idolized yeah yeah but we were in a glam model era as well like the katie price page three yeah like yeah and that was kind of nuts literally nuts yeah yeah that was yeah that was yeah that was yeah that was yeah that was I mean that was I mean she was making she bought an ep she built an empire of having big boobs yeah so it's yeah there's that oh actually that's and you know I'm very much like for like get the bag yeah do what liberates you and make you feel amazing and

So there's that side of things. We're like, oh, actually, like, this is something that actually, I could make these boobs work for me financially. But then at the same time, there is that shame of like, but it's wrong. Like, you shouldn't, your body should, you should not be like, you should not embrace being sexualized. You know, it's a weird.

You shouldn't embrace being sexualized. Yeah. It's like, it's, like, it's a profit off of it. Yeah. But that's something I feel like what I've done, which is what I'm trying to, is that I almost feel like I desexualized myself. to be able to like embrace them in a way that like I'll basically

I've had to like remove all of that thinking and like seeing myself as a sexual being in order to like embrace it and then now I'm like working on sex does that make sense like I've almost had to because I think I was also carrying that like being sexualising myself was wrong even though like there's nothing wrong with it it's like a weird thing I don't know if I'm actually making sense but no it does it's like a weird thing of almost having to like start again start again yeah but of course you have to start again

like look at the shit show we've just explained as teenagers like we did there's no there is it sounds such like a first world like oh there's no support for this whatever but it it it's the beginning of a terrible relationship with your body and that was yeah yeah that was one of the main takeaways as well from the documentary with rochelle and it was so like and i could cry for her but like and i'll actually i guess you've been in this position because you you had one but she wanted a reduction so badly and it was like she just had hated herself forever because of it and it's like it actually is horrific that we're doing that to like it's what you said before we're just setting young girls up to fail and how are they ever supposed to have a positive

relationship with their bodies exactly and it's like and that's that's your whole self-worth your whole identity that's an entire life that you're just letting not make it's full potential because we're sexualizing children basically yeah I mean when I did the women's our interview. I had women messaging me who were in their 60s and 70s who had just got breast reductions and had said, I'm finally living my life after 50 years of hating myself. I'm like 50 years. Yeah. Like all of our experiences were the same. And it was that other people had made you feel like your body was wrong. And so, and as children, children are like sponges, you soak everything up. So you soak that up and you carry that for the rest of your life. Yeah. And so. And

So you just spend your whole life hating yourself, which is just exhausting. Al, did you like your boobs afterwards? Did you feel that sense of like you've got what you wanted? Yes. But it didn't change my relationship with my body. Like, I mean, you see, I never show anything off. Like, I rarely wear tight-fitting things. I never show any cleavage or anything.

And I don't know, I actually don't really know why. I guess it just still, so I did, I definitely, I felt better, like I physically, I felt better. And mentally too, but it didn't, I guess it didn't change my relationship with like the outside world of my body. If that makes sense. Yes, yes. I didn't feel like now, like I still hunched over. I still didn't want people to, yeah, I don't, I don't know. But this is exactly what one of the ladies were saying in the dock is that you may get a breast reduction, but it takes a very long time and maybe it's even lifetimes work for your mind to catch up to what's just happened because you cannot erase everything you experience just because you've had a breast

reduction like everything that still happened you still happened if that's the shame or just you feeling insecure about it it's like that is that having a breast reduction doesn't remove that it's like this stuff that you carry with I guess forever you carry it forever because it's such I think it's such a unique physical experience that if you live it you get it. And if you don't, then you just, you don't really understand it. But it is such a unique experience, which is why I think when you find your tribe of people who know exactly what it's like, it's like, thank God, because you do feel like you're alone in the way that you feel quite a lot of the time, that you're the only one that feels like this. I mean, I thought

I was an alien. I legit was like, I'm an alien. When I was 11, I was like, I'm an alien. Like, and I used to call myself an alien because that's how I felt. And I remember being 11 and Do you remember when you were in school and the boys and the girls would get changed in the classroom because everyone's just got like Little Fried Egg so like it's fine and I remember my teacher tapped me

and said, Jacqueline and I was like, yes, Miss and she's like, can you go to the cloak room to get changed? And I was like, oh, why? She's like, oh, because you know, you're a bit developed now. That is so awful.

Oh, God singling you are. Yeah. So it was me and then I had two Muslim girls in my class who would always get changed in the cloak room and like, it was like, okay, and that was it. It was like, I don't even know being developed. You just put away. That is horrifying as an 11 year old. It's horrifying as at any age

really to be singled out like that. But that's so, at such a vulnerable time, that's really scarring. Yeah, I was literally like, I don't even know what being developed means. Like, what does that even mean? But because I was, I felt I was an alien because I was very aware that my body had changed. That just added to, okay, then you definitely are a freak. And so that's, you know. That was so wrong with that teacher. I know. If you're going to, if you're going to ask one person to do it, then make the whole class, make it separate it straight away. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And even just a conversation, like, where was the chat? Like, there was no conversation around. Like, I remember learning in school, obviously, about, like, the birds and the bees and periods, but there was no conversation around, like, your boobs growing or whatever. And so then you're just like. And that's a horrible time. Like, when you get their little, like, buds. And then I hated everyone called them buds. oh yeah yeah like little like little booby buds oh and you're so embarrassed yeah like yeah like hair

like your first pub oh my god yeah I remember my mom giving me a deogent for the first time she was like I think you need this I was like what yeah like getting like be-o-y vibes yeah yeah it's such a weird time isn't it your body's changing like everyone's at different stages but you were put it was like you did it it was like you were like caterpillar to butterfly or whatever And then the minute you get your wings, you're like, and we put her away now. That's it. And that kind of sets you up. That kind of sets you up forever there.

It's like, you need to be hidden. This is the beginning. You're a woman now. Yeah. You go in that room. Yeah. You deal with that on your own. Yeah.

It was crazy. I remember using Ask Jeeves and like typing into Jeeves like, how did you get rid of big boobs? And then Jeeves is like genetics. I'm like, oh, I'm doomed. Get rid of that. I was like, I was willing to do anything. anything to cut them off. I like, what I just wanted them off

so I could just be normal and do what all my friends did. And, you know, school discos and stuff. Like, I remember, I would, it's almost like, I would sit on the bench and watch everyone like dancing and running around and like, I just met the disco, like, oh, like, I want to do that. But I just felt so, oh, I don't want anyone to look. It was always that, you know, always taking photos like this

of my arms crossed all the time. It was like, that was just what I always did. Always wearing oversized jackets from, From an early age I said right I'm here to hide I'm here to hide That's it

I'm here to be invisible Memories for me A few things Like I remember doing these exercises That I'd seen in a book Of how to like reduce your chest Your breast size Yes

These exercises That I did in my room Like every morning And every night time And also the minimiser bras From an air Oh my god the minimis Yeah the minimis

And then I discovered Binding Like I heard about it And I tried to find like a binding, like a, find out how to buy. Oh my God, it's so crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What?

Do you remember and she's the man? Yeah. And she and she, she does. Yeah, she does. And I remember watching that scene and being like, I want to do that. I need to do that. Mm, God. Because anything to squash them down.

Yeah, yeah. And it was just about craving normality. I just want to be like everyone else. I just want to feel like I'm normal. That was it. And that's how much having big boobs is like makes you feel like you are living a completely different existence to everyone else. So yeah, it's it's a tough. I think it's tough.

It's also tough when you, I guess as well, there's no one around like you or, you know, I feel like quite really grateful to do what I do now because I, you know, I sometimes get gifted bras, etc, etc. But I always feel really grateful because I used to buy my bras from eBay, like used to buy my bras, like used to. bras off eBay when I was a student because I couldn't afford 60 pounds bra or whatever so I was buying them for like three pounds on eBay because that got me through and there's probably lots of people who are

still doing that it's a hard existence it really is it really is yeah and exercise as well as I was actually talking about this yesterday like it stop it prohibits women from like full stop from exercising and the amount of girls that like don't even can't entertain

it can't do it it's physically too much for them which then feels incredibly cruel that on the other side it's like well if you want a reduction you've got to have a breast you've got to have a BMI of under 27 and it's like but how do you expect them to do it yeah if you can't move your body well this is it it's and then even when you're working out I mean pooh the way people some guys will stare at you and they have no shame in it they don't give a heck they'll stop what they're doing just to stare watching your boobs bounce you already know your boobs are bouncing because you're not wearing the right bra so they're bouncing and then

you've also got big boobs even if you are in the right bra yeah your boobs are going to go They're going to go. They're going to go, like gravity on the treadmill. Yeah. So it's, you know, it's, and then, yeah, it's, yeah, working out as well is, I mean, I didn't really work out for years. I didn't feel like I had, like, the body to even, like, I didn't even want to take care of my body.

I just wanted to just like, neglect it because I'm like, well, I have these big, they cover my rib cage anyway, so what's the point, you know? I feel less so like that now because obviously I do CrossFit, so they're always out. she's the crossford yeah but I'm catching up on lost time I'm catching up on lost time good for you yeah so did you see Brianie Gordon and Jada Saza

ran the marathon together in their underwear a few years ago I love so good because Brian is a really big advocate for that as well like she's got massive boobs and she like she does some running and stuff and it's like it's and she came to it's so late and I think that's a really big part of it

and it's like people yeah it is a huge consideration totally and also if you I don't think there's any right or wrong way. Like if you want to get a breast reduction, I do not know your lived experience. So if you really fundamentally feel that that's going to make you feel like the best version of yourself, I'm like, go for it, babe.

I'm getting my boobs. I said this in the episode before. And I wanted to ask you out about this and actually both of you and have the talk about self-love within it. Because as soon as I'm done breastfeeding, I'm having my boobs up and off. And I can't wait. But as in like a breast lift or like? Lift and reduction.

Okay. Nice. Because I'm watching them now. They've just got, I don't like them. Yeah. I don't like the way my boobs looked. I never have.

Yeah. And I feel like a bad body confidence advocate saying that. But I just don't. I don't like my nipples particularly. I don't like how big. Because my boobs got so big when I was a teenager. Then I lost a lot of weight when I left school. And I went and they got, they got small.

Like, I've got a real like, I can't. I don't know if it's like a dismal fear about my boobs. I can never work out if they're big or small. But I know objectively size wise. I'm like, well, that is a big number. They're a big letter. So like, yes. But then I have very conflicted feelings.

but I lost a lot of weight when I was like 20 maybe so that I got really slim maybe they went down to like a D and then I got bigger again and then I've been pregnant now I'm breastfeeding so they're just they're stretched out they're saggy they're big now God knows what's going to happen when I stop breastfeeding and I just I'm already excited and I feel empowered

for like last child they're off yeah but it's I feel really viable yeah literally get them out of here like I'm done with this but I doesn't feel and I feel really confident saying that And I'm like, that's what I want for myself. Yeah.

Right. So you should. But it's kind of hard. I feel like it's kind of hard to have that within like, and they're like, you're supposed to love yourself. Do you know what I mean? But are you? I don't know.

But I think no one knows your, that's why it's like your lived experience. Like I think that it's, it's an impossible ask to ask everybody to love every single piece of themselves. It's just, it's hard. It's hard. It's really hard. And I think. that, you know, if you, I'm a big believer in, like, body neutrality and, like, I'm just

here for you making the right decision that is best for you, which I say, breast for you. Yeah. Love it. That's going to make you feel great. Then lean into that, you know? It's your journey. Yeah. It's your body. It's your story. Like, I think you can't carry the weight, of, you know, other people's thoughts and opinions on what they think you should do. It's about what works best for you. And if that is what makes you feel great, then do that. You know what I mean? Like it's like it's, I know it's complex.

I do think even like, this is so random, but it's like Botox. Yeah. And like you want to be like, love your skin and like lean into aging. But at the same time, it's like, oh, but what if I want to get like a? No, no, yeah, a little something. Like, does that mean I'm, like, Am I bad? Yeah, but like, have I failed?

Yeah, but like, but that's the impossible thing as well. Yeah. That's the dichotomy you've told me about before. It's like you've got to be, you've got to get old gracefully, but don't look brinkly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And I do think there's like, you can work on yourself to a point where you, you can't work on yourself anymore. Like you can work on yourself constantly, nonstop all the time. And you can work on feeling comfortable in, your own body whatever but at the end of the day we still live in a world that has all these values and we still have to face that yeah we still have to go out in the morning and be faced with that and get triggered and see all these expectations of us and see these standards so ultimately like fit out like you're right I look at myself I've always got ready when I blow down my hair

after shower I'd blow to my naked that was how I made peace of my body I just saw myself so much that I was like this is how much piece of my body the one thing that I didn't like and still don't like when I look at myself and actually I've had a kid like I've got a cesarian scar

I'm a lot bigger than I used to be it's not the fat rolls I have a problem with it's my boobs but that's okay as well because I think also like holding saying I have to be accepting of every single part of my body

is also holding ourselves to another standard that we just can't meet and so we're just failing like yet again it's like actually I've tried hard with this and even if you haven't tried hard with it

like that's that it's okay it's all right that you don't like that part of yourself and that's okay it's also okay yeah and it's also okay and empowering to do something about it yeah yeah for sure thanks that's helped make it all about me

sorry I've got my in stuff going on here but I do think yeah it's so complex I think like so many of us especially as women there's this you feel like

oh what's direct being pulled in different directions or what should you be doing and it's like it's really hard I think you know with our bodies or getting tweakments or whatever it is there's this feeling of like it's what you're doing is wrong

when actually like we've got to empower ourselves and sometimes people might not like the way that you do it but if that's what makes you feel great then you should do that. I just, I think it's, we have to be unapologetic about it really. And sometimes you liberate other people when you do the things that maybe people think maybe you shouldn't do that and you do it

and then someone's like actually I kind of want to do that too and then it's like, yeah, go like go do it. Go do it, yeah. So I feel like it can only be right or wrong to the individual who's actually doing it. Like we can't look from the outside and be like, she's doing it for the right reason. She's doing it for whatever. I think it's only for you, the person who's doing it. Like, can it be right or wrong?

Yeah. And I don't think it's actually a decision that anybody takes likely to have a boob reduct. No. But I feel like actually interestingly as well, and we haven't talked about this from the other side, but that's people who have boob jobs. And I'm quite interested in that because I feel like a boob reduction is something that, like I, and obviously I've done it, but I feel quite like, I feel kind of, I feel empowered because I feel like I haven't ever really

liked my boobs and I pretended to, I kind of did in a really complicated way that was to do with the male gaze that I've definitely moved away from and I don't love and that's my own shit and I've got my own shit. But I feel like it's kind of okay. I can say like, oh, I've had a reduction or I want a reduction. People go, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. But if I'm walking and going, but I want a boob job, then you've got a whole different, oh, you want the male gaze, oh, you want this and this.

And then there's that whole conversation. There's so much more stigma around a boob job. Yeah, than a boob production for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's because boob production's like, oh, poor you, you're okay. You must have been in pain. Yeah. Yeah.

And their boob job is like, but why? Like, you're asking for, you know. You want meant to look at you. Exactly. But actually, I'm like, do whatever the heck you want with your boy? Like, do you know what? I'm so pro, do whatever the hell you want. And also, I think for lots of women who have spoken to who have had boob jobs,

they're like, I have. have never felt feminine. That was a lot of, some people who have met this, well, I've been flat-chested and I never felt like a woman, right? And so having like a bigger bust makes me feel more womanly, right? And who am I to say, what,

makes someone feel more womanly? I'm like, okay, well, if that's something you feel that you've been robbed off and you can afford to go get it done, then go for it. Go for it. It's such a stigma-attactivity. There really is.

Have you ever had that conversation within like the body confidence conversation? I don't think I have, no. No, I don't think I have either No Because it is a tweet I mean it's not really a tweet It's a full treatment

But it's kind of interesting Like I'm yeah But do you think that like If somebody was let's say like Well for example Alex If you got like a boob job Would you feel a bit conflicted with like

I suppose like your audience And like doing that And everything you talk about Or would you definitely Yeah But not from like But not like within me Because I feel like I

Like what we were talking about before like I understand the complexities of this and the complexities of body image and I don't judge anyone including myself for doing things that you know make me feel better in this world that we live in but I feel like it's so you know what social media is like and it's so like black or white it's like you love your body or you don't yeah if you're changing it you obviously don't love it so you're a fraud yeah so I would feel conflicted in that set I would feel like I'm going to have to explain this conversation like every to I'm going to have to explain the nuances of this every time I talk about it.

So I think, but I don't think I would feel conflicted to myself. We spoke so familiar about it and she's had a boob job. And she was saying, like, the comments that she gets are like, why are you lying about it? Like, we know you've had one. And why wouldn't she just admit it? And it's like there's so much of this, like, we know, we know. And it's like, I don't really get, I mean, I do get it because we've grown up in a crazy world. There's pit women against each other for like ever.

But it's actually kind of nuts that we still, like, we've got this kind of like level of like speculation and interest and feel like it's still a dirty or like a bad thing that women are doing to like anything to do with their boobs. Yeah. It's like, yeah, it's like there's so much interest in other women's chests. I wonder if it is just that like direct link to femininity or to or if it's just the male gaze and we don't like other women courting it. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't know. I find it really interesting. But if you do it for the male gaze and let's say that's a mean. for you to like I don't know make money I'm like cool yeah that that's the thing right also there's enough silicon even if you all want one like have a move job yeah even if it's not like financially profiting off of yeah off of doing it for the male gaze even if it's just because you in like even that that is valid as well yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I feel like attention it's like well

why not you can't be an attention seeker like as a woman How dare you seek attention? It's actually worse. Yeah. Stop attention. I feel like when your parents would be like, stop showing off and you're like, I've got off and not.

Yeah. This is just how I am. But that's like the adult equivalent. It's like stop showing off. Stop attention seeking. But you can do something for yourself, but also like the male attention that you might get from it.

Yeah. I think you can, both things can be true. That was me as a teenager with my boobs even though I don't think I don't know it's such a fine line because you enjoy it

until you don't and then it's what you were saying like you enjoy it until it's gone too far until the wrong person looks and then yeah and then that is on me but that's a complicated feeling that I have on me

it's like because you can get like yeah I want that guy's attention so I will use it to get that guy's attention but then when you get it from somebody you don't want it or some old whatever I'm like oh

what have I done but then it's like you can't and that is such a complicated thing to have as a 16 year old to work that out and yeah and it's how I'm 29 I still can't work that out

it's weird that we went we like went different ways with it right yeah like I just wanted to like cover up and always but I think that's also because my mum

is really quite prudish as well and very much like cover everything up you can't have anything can't show ever God I was like you never have boobs in the legs out together I was talking exactly the same thing you pick one

yeah it's and it's like but I'm like why why can't we just just have it. I mean, I'm not, I don't have it all out today, but I'm like, no, I want to have all of it out all at the same time. Yeah, as he should. Yeah, like, why not? It's just like, who made up these stupid rules anyway? Like, who are there? Literally. Like, I'm like, oh, my God, really. Yeah. I don't remember what I wore to clubs. Did I just wear like tents? Yeah. What did I go to clubs in? I would always pick one. I would always take either my legs or

my, I'd always have a baggy t-shirt and a body-con skirt on. Oh, my God, a body-con skirt. Live for that. Oh, my God. Totsch! Was it the one that was like had the puddles? Oh, yeah. I had that in black and pink and electrically. Yeah. C of Valjean. Knock-offs. Oh, my God. I think I've still got that at home, you know, as well. My mum's, yeah, I've got my room at home.

We've still got all my old stuff in it. Oh my gosh. You should do like an early aughts like, yeah, 100%. I actually did a video like that. It was the first video that ever went viral that I did with my elastic belt that I put over everything. One of those, I had that big neon belt that I put over everything.

It's such a complicated time. You put such a massive responsibility on a young. person on a young woman it's a lot but that's why I hope that with the stuff that I do that I can lighten the load a little bit yeah and just like encourage more women to just like lean into that I mean look I do lots of stuff I suppose that my career is kind of built on me having big boobs but and I and I embrace it and I love it but I still get dick pics and do you oh I had one last week disgusting it was a video of him literally masturbating he sent me like five five five

Five. Five. Five. And I sent him, you know, you can send, you know that, like, the message that you send me like, this is an error and this is going to be, yeah, I did that. He sent me five more. Oh, my God. So they've caught on to us.

And, yeah, but I don't carry, but I don't, before I would feel really bad. Like, oh, mate, this is kind of my fault. But then now I'm like, now, man, like, you're just a freak. Like, it's, I'm not doing nothing to you. I'm living my life. A weirdly freak. Certified. Yeah.

Blocking him doesn't seem, like, satisfying enough. Because that should be more of an option. There's probably more. We could send it to his mom. I would love that. But that's the stuff. Like, you know, I do get men messaging me and things like that. And have you had it from women, what was the response like to the doc, to all of it, to the

women's hour, to all of the stuff, all the public conversations you've had outside of your own spaces? Has that been positive? Overwhelming me. Yeah, all positive. So good. Nothing. Haven't had anything bad.

No. Everything was really positive. And I'm really glad because I wanted this to be. something so that people can start to human eyes the women with big boobs and actually see when you see a woman with big boobs and maybe she's feeling herself and she's listening to music and she's like, you leave that woman the hell alone.

Like don't even look at her. Just be like she's living her best life and then you get on with your day. Don't pass a comment, don't stare. Just piss off really. So if that makes people look at people or if someone goes to on holiday and they're on the beach and they see women with like huge boobs which is in a bikini, the old you pre-doc might have maybe said something and now

after watching the doc you think actually I'm going turn my head and finish me. That's what I want. Just peace for these women. That's it. And to raise a baby's better, not better, but differently. Yes. Like to have this conversation with our kids.

Yes. And the way we sexualise young girls and the bodies and that adultification. And just like actually having these conversations with men and also young girls about your body's changing. Let's talk about it. Yeah. How do you feel? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And just to remove shame. Yeah. Like, what are you comfortable in? If I had grown up without shame. Yeah. Yeah.

It would have been so much better. Oh my God, 100% like just kicking shame to the curb and being like, because I think when you can free yourself of that that you just feel so much more comfortable and more free in your body and like I'm at a place now

where I do feel at peace but it took me a long time to get here and if it can start earlier for lots of other people then that's fantastic. You know, you've got more time to enjoy yourself and enjoy your body.

Who wouldn't want that? Amazing. I love you. Yeah, I love you guys. You're great. You're so great. Thank you so much. You've inspired me.

I might wear something revealing. Get the boobs out. Get them out. Get them out. Okay. I might do. I might do. Get them out.

Like I just, I literally just love. Also, I can make a beat with my boobs. What? What? What? Like, I can actually make like a, well, I have to take them out. Okay, can you hear? Now, that's the outro.

Oh, yes. So it's quite, that listeners. It's a brilliant. sound of Jackie's boobs making a beat. Fantastic. You didn't know you needed that audio. Oh yeah. You got it. Jackie, thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you, guys. I've had the best time. Thank you so much. Thank you. Should I delete that is part of the A-class creator network.