Should I Delete That? - My mum put me on a diet at age 8 - and wrote about it in Vogue

Episode Date: August 14, 2022

This week the girls chat to Betty Kubovy-Weiss. When Betty was 7, she was diagnosed with childhood obesity and her doctor told her mother that she would need to lose weight for the good of her health. She was put on a diet, and then, her mother wrote about that experience in Vogue. Now, at 18, she shares with Alex and Em how this has affected her self confidence and body image. We are excited to hear your thoughts on this conversation! DM and email us to share.Em has a lot of awkwards to share, and Al suddenly realises that a lot of people actually listen to the pod: that’s you people!Sponsored by Butternut Box - visit www.butternutbox.com/alexandem for 50% off your first two boxesFollow us on Instagram @shouldideletethatEmail us at [e-mail] & edited by Daisy GrantMusic by Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We are so happy and proud that this episode is sponsored by Butternut Box, a brand that we love for many reasons. As you'll probably already know, if you follow us both on Instagram, buttonut box is a fresh dog food delivery service that delivers straight to your door and takes into consideration all of your dog's dietary needs. The brand started with a rescue dog, which we obviously love, and Betty and Bua have absolutely thrived on it. Buttonut Box genuinely care about their dogs and their ethos is that good enough for the dog is not good enough. Dogs deserve better. The meals are comprised of course. Quality meat, veg, lentils, vitamins and minerals, and don't contain any grain, wheat, gluten, corn, soy or sugar, all of which are known to cause intolerances in dogs.

We haven't been asked to say this, but we wanted to highlight the huge amount of work the Butternut Box do with dog charities. They donate meals to dogs in shelters, and they even donate freezers so that the shelters can store the meals. If you would like to try Buttonut Box out for your dog, you can get 50% off your first two boxes with the following link. Oh my god, why did I post that? Ah, I don't know what to do. Should I delete that? Yeah, you should definitely delete that. I'm sorry, I need to stop yawning.

I'm sorry, I'm not he's giving it to me. The state of that. What a way to start. the episode. Good morning. Hello. Happy Monday. Up,

been Monday. How you doing? I'm good. I'm good. I come to you from a Premier Inn, which I have to say, or totally underrated, I think, Premier Inns.

I just think they're great. You've got to know something. You've got to know something really jokes about Premier Inn. Go on. So we went to go and stay in one after, and this is completely like to harness the brand for me now. And it's not even their fault. It's our fault.

But we went to go and stay in one. after my friend Chess's wedding last year. And when we got back to the, we were so, it was unholy how drunk we were. It was so bad. And we got back to the Premier Inn, and we got into our room.

And Alex, my Alex, was so drunk, he lifted the duvet, the possum feet, and the mattress protector, and lay underneath the mattress protector. Because he thought it was the duvet, oh my god he woke up in the morning and it was just like oh my god like the realisation a very discoloured mattress even was a coloured mattress protector and him in between them oh that's rank i mean was that is i wouldn't want to sleep on an actual mattress in any

hotel but that's that is right and i mean any hotel because if you think about it it doesn't Mara, it's disgusting. It's like, if you're in all the rits, it doesn't make a difference because it's like hairy butt and hairy butt, you know what I mean? Exactly, it's people. It's people. And things do get through to mattresses, they do, they do, they do.

Spunk does, piss does, shit'll do it. Period. Yeah? Period actually is probably something that I would mind the least. I'd rather sleep on someone's period than Spunk. Oh my God, 100%. Yeah, 100%. It's annoying for, it's bad brand for the period.

that it comes up so dark because it's actually a very inoffensive thing to me but because it's blood obviously you know what we've listened to enough true crime in our lives like my mind leaks I see blood on a hotel mattress I'm like that's the thing it does sort of

yeah a lot it does spark alarm bells but I would much rather look at blood than spunk oh god yeah and I'd rather have blood someone else's blood on me than someone else's spunk on me oh my god a thousand percent i i caveat like a stranger's blood and a stranger's spunk yeah and also yes possibly like ignoring the the the possibility of getting diseases from blood but i don't know there's possibilities of getting diseases from spunk too surely right yeah yeah 100%

but famously alf famously spunk how did we get onto this spunk brings everything with it dangerous how did we get onto the hit you know i'm one of the only one of my friends that hasn't had clavidia and I actually sometimes feel a bit left out and I just think it's too late for me now I've never had an STD I've not no no me neither how boring I know I actually had to get tested like four years into my relationship with Alex because I had to go and get um uh the coil fitted and still I'd been with Alex for like four years and I was like oh my god and I just got like all the nurse and then I was like oh wait this is literally that's like classic like the police car driving behind you and you know you've done nothing wrong

and you're still like, ha ha ha ha ha. But like, you can lie dormant, can't it? So I did the same. Can it? And actually it was, yeah,

probably about three years into our relationship. And then I was on the coil but I was getting bleeding. So they were like, okay, so you need to do an SDI test. And I absolutely shat myself.

I don't know. I just thought like this is it. I've definitely got something. Oh my God. Al, you were right. Plimidia can lie dormant. But it doesn't, it doesn't lie dormant like,

I don't think it lies dormant like it doesn't show up on tests, it just lies dormant like you don't have any symptoms. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And then eventually it can make you infertile, I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not good. It's not good. That's what, you know what? Anybody listening to this, go and get your STD check.

Yeah, yeah. It's always worth it. And most things are fixable and, you know, knowledge is power. Yeah. And if not fixable, manageable, so. Exactly. Love that. Good.

Sex-Ead with Alex and M. Do you know what? That actually brings me nicely onto, onto my awkward. Which is... That you have chlamydia. That FD result came back as positive. The marriage is on the road. For all of it.

No, I was... It's kind of not really an awkward, but I think what's... It's awkward that I've realised... Well, I've seen a few friends this past week or a couple of friends this past week. And each time they've said to me, like, oh, too much information, but, right?

And I'm like, oh my God, what are they going to tell me? like what is too much information right and then when they say it it's something like so innocuous just like are you having out with me too much well hang on it's like oh I I had sex and this or like oh I I had the shits or oh my I've got my period and I'm like we overshare so much on this podcast like so much because it doesn't even like I don't blink an eye when they say it and I'm like I can't believe you caveated that with too much information but when we just say it also, like, do we share too much? Well, I'm trying to think if there's anything that is too much information.

That's the thing. I'm like, what would be too much information? Well, sometimes I think the bad part of this podcast is too much information. Like, when we share the negative things, but that's because I've been brought up by stiff upper lips. And, like, my mum literally had the quote, like, a bore is someone who had asked how they are. tells you like we were encouraged to speak only like of niceties like oh how are you and it's like

your arm can be falling off I'm like oh my god I'm great how are you so like it's not in my nature to dwell on the bad or to moan about the bad so that feels like too much of me you know sometimes when someone asks how you are then you start telling them and then you're like oh god I've started on such a negative train here why have I done it but then you're too late and so you've just got to commit to just telling them the bad thing and then sometimes I'm like this was too much information I could have just told them I was fine and would have had a nicer dinner. But I could also tell them

about the size of the poo that I did and that wouldn't concern me but if I like shed a tear over something I'd be like, oh my God, I have crossed a line line in the sand. Oh my God. Yeah, for sure, for sure. But I do think the very nature of podcasts

we'd be struggling if we did one where we didn't really share. I imagine, hi, I'm, how are you? Good, thank you. Yeah, good, here's a guest. Here's a guest. And then just with them, hey, how are you? Yeah, good, thanks.

Okay, cool. Anyway, so see next week. Everybody's good. Everybody's not good, but they're going to tell you that they are because they're scared of oversharing because they're British. Loll. Well, yeah, there we go. Interesting.

Yes, I think we have lowered the bar or raised the bar so much in our work, perhaps. I think perhaps we might overshare us. I do have to say, though, like I feel I'm from a background very similar to yours what you just described. and also a family that very much didn't talk about, like so much was taboo and off topic, off the table. My mum always said, you should never talk about anything that you, never talk about anything at dinner that you wouldn't want to put on the table.

Yeah, okay, that took me a second. But then my mum will be the first person to like bring up an orgy, so I'm like, I don't really want an orgy on the table, but sure, let's up this show. My mum's a Gemini. She says one thing and then says another. But I think that environment of not talking about stuff It just leads to like well a lot of shame right So whatever we're oversharing but at least

Like I love podcasts and I love listening to people that overshare Because often the bits that they're like oversharing Is stuff that I like resonates with me And then I'm like oh my god I'm normal I actually think about it my family do overshare loads Like we talk about loads of stuff So I think you're your yeah we do talk about loads of stuff I don't know why we have this like joking with my mum

like we're not awkward about talking about like sex or anything or like swearing or talking about yeah there's nothing there's nothing i don't think i'd talk to my mom about to be honest actually so she what yeah but i think what she taught what the the the ball thing but i do think it's different i don't think we have any like taboo things but then i just think like general courtesy dictates that when someone asks how you are you just fine so you're fine yeah because you don't want to bring yeah you don't want to bring the move down i think i said it last week, but we have never said the word sex. Like, my mum has never said it in front of us, and we've never said in front of her.

She says, how did you think you were born? My auntie told me. Who? What? Because, well, like, I, I, believe it or not, because I actually, even I lean towards not, I was actually quite switched on as a child, and, like, I knew about Santa and, like, the tooth, straight away, I wasn't having any of it. And sex, I was like, there is something.

going on here and I know it and I was I was possibly I don't think I was too young but anyway um mum was like oh um you know she did the whole like the bird comes down from the sky and delivers it and when I didn't buy that she was like it just grows out with your belly button and I was like I'm not buying that either I know it's something bad like not bad but like to a kid that feels quite bad um so yeah in the end my auntie kind of sat me down I was like this is how it goes oh my god Yeah, no, we're not like that at all. I think we talk about, you know, about once a week as a family. Yeah, that does not exist in my mum's, my mum's sphere.

Not once a week. I'm going to say months about. She's from a very, like, very Catholic family, so that makes sense, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, it does, isn't it? How crazy. Yeah, all of our, we've got a bottle opener in the shape of a dick. Yeah, that's.

Really lifelike, actually. That's nice. That's good. Fains on it and everything. It's carved out of wood. Oh, veins. Um, interesting. Okay, right. Good, bad. Goods bad. Good. While I'm talking about my mom, my mom did her 10th Iron Man. I haven't spoken to you since I went to Estonia. Yes. Is this your good? Yeah, of course it is. Watched her. Yeah. It's my good. It's my good for some selfish reasons as well. It's my good and the fact that it was her 10th and final Iron Man. So she has done 10 over the last 10 years. She did her first one, age 50. Lots of people ask on Instagram, two things. One, what's an Iron Man? I will tell you. It is a. It's the biggest triathlon.

It's 2.4-mile swim, 112-mile bike ride, 26.2 mile run. And she did this. She did her first one, aged 50, and she had not ever done any exercise before she was 49. Like, people always say,

well, was she into it? She literally did nothing. She was a glorified couch potato, like, first to admit it. And then when she was 49, she went through some personal stuff and started training, started exercising and she was very involved in the founding of Help for Heroes

and she's one of the founder patrons of Help for Heroes and they asked her to go on a battlefield bike ride which is like a bike ride across Europe which I subsequently did five of as well and she did one of those the first time she trained for that and then they asked her if she'd do the marathon for Help for Heroes and she said no I can't run and they said okay well what about an Iron Man then and she said yeah I'll do that not realising that it had a marathon at the end of it and yeah thus began the training and the journey and she's been

I can't tell you how inspiring it's been over the last decade to watch her do them she's done them all over the place done it in the UK a few times but she's done one in Hamburg she's done one in Zurich

she's done one in Barcelona she's done two in Copenhagen and then this one in Tallinn and it's been so amazing for her and but it does take up everything and obviously it's the older you get it's harder

and I think her body's just about fucking had it with her now She said to have God knows how many surgeries on, like, a knee and a shoulder and steroid injections in her back. And, you know, like, she's really pushing herself to a limit. And so she decided this one, age 60 would be her final one. And bearing in mind, you know, remember her sister died about a week before she did it. And she, it's been a really hard time for her.

And she got up there and she fucking smashed it out. And she was so nervous. And it was just unbelievable. Like, it was the most inspiring thing I've ever seen. And when they finished, my brother asked the, like, me and my brother and sister were there, and my brother asked for, like, the organiser of the event to speak to her on the finish line, and they did an emotional speech for her. And then we got a call the next morning, and it turned out she'd come third in her age category.

That's unbelievable. And they had a little medal for her, and she got to go up on the stage. And it was just, like, we got the call, and we got on our electric scooters. It was like, I've been like, the fleet, because Alex had done it as well. and like a couple of his friends and like we're all like scooting down there to collect her medal. We arrived like she's here with her entourage.

And oh it was just absolutely the most amazing thing. That is so good. That is unreal. So inspiring and at the age of 60. And also what a nice way to finish on number 10 when she's 60. Yeah. So nice like rounded numbers and like what a milestone to have done 10. Well, we're not going to dwell on the fact that she's 61.

And she was supposed to do her 10th last year. but then COVID got in the way, so she's... Well, there you go. Let that go. Yeah, exactly. So she basically is. And, yeah, 100%. And then selfishly, it is hard watching your mum put herself through pain, actually, to do it.

And even more selfishly, you have to get up at 4 in the morning to watch the start line at fucking 6th. And then you've got to stay up all day to chase them around random cities that you've never been to to cheer them on at every possible point. And then you don't go to bed until they finish at 11.30. But you also can't moan about being tired because they're the one doing an iron man. People's really got to hold it together, even though you're fucking shattered. So I'm quite looking forward to that chapter of my life being closed as well. Although Alex does them as well, but quite frankly, well, he's fine. You know, he doesn't need as much.

She's fine. He also does them a bit quicker because he's younger, so it's actually a bit easier to spectate. Anyway, so I'm so proud of her. And I'm so happy for her. And, yeah, she just absolutely smashed it. She was, yeah, like 16 hours as well. She did it in, which was just stunning. 16 hours and one minute.

so unbelievable absolutely unbelievable so cool what a babe that's a cat for fancy yeah it was amazing so that was my big fat good

so cool I do not have anything quite as inspiring as that it's actually something quite self-absorbed actually but my good is that we well my good is just

finding out that people actually listen to this podcast yay I love it when your goods are my goods too. Yeah, like a substantial amount of people actually listen to this podcast, which I still find quite unbelievable. So we had a meeting with ACAST. We're part of the ACAS created network and we had a meeting with them. And when we sat down, Em and I sat down in the like little waiting room before we met them.

And Em just looked at me and was like, they're firing us, aren't they? And I was like, oh God, they are, aren't they? And I was like, no, but wait, because we're going for lunch afterwards. So surely they wouldn't be firing us if we're going for. lunch after. Would they? And you were like, I don't know, probably. It's so awkward. So on your fucking bikes, here's a sandwich. Here's a pret sandwich, a little like one. So yeah, that was, and then we went to the meeting and it was like really positive. And they were like, yeah, like people are listening.

We were waiting for the other shoot to drive, weren't we? We were sitting there like, totally. Okay, where's the bar? And then it just didn't come. It was like, oh, cool. So that was cool. Because it's so weird. We like, we record. to hit. Okay, the interviews are a bit different because we record the interviews in a studio and it feels like a little bit, like it feels more profession stuff, but like these bits and the is it just me and the good, bad and awkwards, like we just record it. I mean, I'm coming to you from a premiere in, like obviously we're just chatting shit to each other and it's weird and I never think that other people are listening, which is stupid because otherwise

why would we be doing it? But it's very special, isn't it? It's very weird. I feel Really lucky. Yeah, we're a bit cheesy out to us, well, we're like, how lucky are we? We love our job, and we love each other. I know. I know, but it is just so cool, isn't it? We are very lucky.

Very lucky. So thanks, and like you said, we can sometimes get bogged down in, like, logistics, or we've got to do this and we've got to do that, but, yeah. Yeah, and I've been getting so bogged down with, like, the trolling and stuff recently, and, like, so remembering that bit has been really important for me. Yeah.

I'll tell you what, Al, I've got so many awkwards. I've literally, I've got so many, I actually was going to give up my bads and my goods, just for the awkwards. My bad, I'll just say very quickly, is that I went to my auntie's funeral yesterday, and that was bad and it was sad. And now I'm going to completely swing us back around with the extensive amount of awkwards. I don't know how it's been so awkward. I just don't understand. Starting most recently at the ACAS, aforementioned ACAS meeting that we went to, and I sat down in the lobby with you. And I was wearing a pretty little, like, t-shirt dress.

And I sat down next to Al. I said, I slumped. I threw myself to the chair, as an author would say, I threw myself into the chair. And as I threw myself into the chair, the back of my skirt got caught on the back of the chair. So when I sat down next to Alex, my entire ass was just out

because the back of my dress was stuck to the back of the chair, which was quite high. And that was so embarrassing. I was like, ooh, oh. And then you have to stand back up to get unhook it. Oh, my God, that was so embarrassing. It was so funny to just watch you shit yourself. Literally, I saw the absolute panic.

You were like, what? Obviously, I'm sad. Sorry for that noise. That was probably very loud. No, it's literally about right. That was exactly what I did. And then, this has been such a not good week. I stood up off the flight with my seatbelt still done up.

That's so embarrassing. When I was at the airport, I don't know why it's been. in such a bad week. When I was at the airport, I got, I bought a book at the airport and I went to the W.A. Smith's counter and I slid and the book onto the counter. And it just slid the whole town behind the time. So I was like, I'll take this please. And like slid it across the counter and then it's one dog and landed on the floor on the side. I was like, oh, I'm really sorry. It was like play air hockey with her and she just missed it. And then finally, and this one was so bad. And I was actually so upset about it. So I was in Estonia and fucking Alex and

mom, I've gone to do their registration for, if anyone's ever done an Iron Man, the amount of fucking admin that comes with these things, oh my God, and like the officials, there's no one more officious in this life than an Iron Man official. They can't help themselves. They love the fucking rules so much. And there's so many rules. Anyway, they'd forgotten or they didn't have exactly the right race number. You have like a million race numbers and you have like stickers for your bike, stickers for your helmet, stickers for bag in transition one. bag in transition two personal items bag one that goes um rounder on a waist belt oh it's just so many stickers it's ridiculous anyway they haven't taken one of the nine stickers that they needed and sure enough

that's the one that they needed and they were like 25 minutes away and Alex had a meeting at 3.30 and he was in such a rush so I had to get like basically to him I had to get their numbers to him give him my taxi and then literally walk back by myself um don't dwell on being a good good wife And anyway, did this whole thing, and I was rushing around like a headless chicken because time was of the essence to get their race numbers to transition two. And I ran between my room, mine and Alex's room and my mum's room, and I went, oh, I'm so embarrassing. Got my mum's room, then Alex was like, okay, fuck it, I'm not going to make the meeting, you're going to have to bring my computer so I can find a cathay. And I was like, okay, back to our room we go. So I ran back to our room, open the door, and because I am a mess, I'd left the suitcase right open by the door.

I went in, tripped over the suitcase, and as I was going forward, my big, baggy, fashionable sleeve of my Zara dress got caught in the door handle. Oh, no. So as I was falling, I was caught by my sleeve in the door handle, which ripped, I'll send you a photo, so I've got a massive rip in my stunning little Zara dress, and I was literally suspended by my sleeve, like hanging over my suitcase, like, but. not quite fallen because the door handle and sleeve was holding me up and then you get so angry and like you're on your own yeah and there's no one to be angry but i left the suitcase there i went into the room to so far as i tripped over it's my dress i've ruined it's all me and i was just so angry with me and oh it was awful and i had to like reverse myself back up to unhook myself and just look sadly at my sleeve,

but I didn't even have the time to, like, be sad because I had to keep on moving. And then I got his laptop, and then he was like, oh, what have you got my laptop for? I didn't want my laptop? And I was like, don't you start with me today? Fuck off. Fuck off, Alex.

There was a miscommunication, and I was like, whoever's fault it is, it's irrelevant, it's yours. I've ripped my pretty little Zora dress, and I'm not doing this with you. And I don't know why that was just so awkward, but I think it's just because I was on my own. And then I had to walk.

You know what? That visual's great. It's in such a little fluster as well. And you know, and I know I've got this massive rick in my sleeve. So everyone's going to be looking at me like, well, she's had a shocker. I don't know what's happened there, but it's not good. I'm like, I know. Anyway, that's survived. So many awkwards.

That actually makes me think of this morning, actually, right. So every night I set, when I set my alarm, okay, so say I want to wake up at seven, right? I set one at 650, 655, 7, 705, 710, 715, 720, right? I have never not woken up on my first alarm but I have this irrational fear that I am just going to miss my alarm I miss all alarms so I think the more the better so I put it on at least probably seven alarms every night does Dave love that mad

loves that obviously someone fucking kill you and then this morning I obviously woke up at my first alarm went into the shower and then I'm in the shower my alarm goes off again because the next five minutes has rolled round so I get out the shower and I turn it off I get back in the shower and I was really enjoying it because it was hot and I'm in the premiere in and it's air conned which is an absolute trait.

So I was in it for another five minutes. So I went off again. So I was like, oh, I walked out, like stumped out the shower and like slammed on the thing. And then I just took a moment. I was so mad, so angry. And I took a moment. I was like, Dave, I've just noticed like the things that make me so angry are just things that are entirely my own fault.

Like entirely my own fault. I feel like mad at the world like the fucking alarm is going off again and I'm like hang on who set the alarms me who didn't turn off the alarms me why do I have to get out of the shower and turn off the alarms me

it's all my own fault so why am I getting so angry at the world you know I feel like the universe is against me and it's not I did that yesterday I was driving to the funeral and there was traffic and I just went like it was my fault well first of all you can't complain about the traffic because if you're in the traffic, you are the traffic. I think that's something very important for people to remember

whenever they bitching them about stuff, right? So I never complain about traffic because I'm well aware that I am the traffic. And I'm sitting in it. And I normally have this very rational sense of what is right in the car and that is whatever happens is what is right. And I'm not special and I don't deserve anything extra.

So suck it up, bitch. But yesterday I swear God, and it was like, and I slipped from like, I'm so angry with the traffic and then before I know, I was like, what's fucking wrong with this country? inflation's so bad everybody's fucking like this is so miserable

we're burning we're burning the earth is burning it's so hot it's so irrational no one can afford to do anything like I fucking hate it here the NHS is on its knees I was like what am I doing and it literally stem from like there's a little bit

of traffic because of road works to me being like I fucking hate this place it's so irrational that's a bad spiral to go down because there isn't much you can do about those things. No. That's a bad, that's a dangerous spiral to go down.

Yeah, it wasn't a positive journey that I found myself on. Yeah, you said it the other day. It's like, it's actually really hard to enjoy the sum at the moment when you know that the reason for it is that the earth is burning. Like you're so much less inclined just to go and have an ice cream and enjoy, enjoy yourself when it's like, we've got the context that we do. I've never said that. in my life but I'm looking forward to autumn. I'm struggling. Oh my god I'm so excited.

I'm struggling. It's bad isn't it? It's just too much and I think you're right I think the magic kind of does go when you realize that it's like bad bad heat where we have no government where's Kea Stama can I just ask where is the leader of the opposition at this time it really frustrates me that everybody goes on like I get that everybody goes on holiday in August but I do think if you are part of the government. I don't know that he's on holiday for a fact. I just know that we kind of like very like widely accept that things don't happen in August, don't we? We're all like, oh everyone's got their out of office on, you know, government will be back in September. It's just like, I don't think we should kind of be like, I think maybe this year their holidays should be

cancelled and everybody should just sit at home and just work out what the fuck we're going to do because everything's a mess. Like I just, I can't believe that like, yeah, inflation is like so crazy and it's such a terrifying time for people and then there's just kind of like nobody here. Like we don't have a Prime Minister haven't heard from Keir and ages like Liz and Rishi are just like God knows doing fucking what and it's just it is actually

a bit terrifying. It kind of just makes me just like a bit ashamed of everything. I'm just like this is a fucking this place is a joke. This is a joke I watched a video, sorry I'm really going off on one here but I watched a video about immigration the other day and it was just like and I've all I hate the fucking rhetoric around

illegal immigrants in this country and about the channel crossing and I hate how hostile we are to people that seek asylum here and it annoys me so much and I saw this incredible video showing this from a guy in the House of Lords and it was on simple politics so you should go and look

at it but it was about this guy speaking it was a one of the Lord speaking and it was very disconcerting having a very posh old white man speaking so eloquently in favour of like liberal kindness

when it comes to refugees and people seeking inside of here anyway and it was just like hearing how how awful we've been and hearing it all because you kind of know

but then hearing it all back to back to back and how we're not doing anything for Afghans and not doing anything for Syrians and like just etc etc

and it's just like oh my God like you just it actually makes you so ashamed to just when you hear it all on the bounce like that it just I don't know

everything's really pissing me off I'm just it is shameful it is shameful everything though out I can't I can't find I'm one saving grace with this lot right now. Okay, well, you've really brought me down.

You know what? I was having fun, I was having fun. My bad, if they weren't the funeral and the fact that the world's ending and the country has gone to shit, there was a point when my only bad from this week was that I'd reorganised all my apps on my iPhone and I couldn't find anything. I tried to be more you and put them all in categories.

but I can't do it. I can't do it. I can't work out where like pay by phone goes or like Ringo parking. What category do you put that in? Because you don't want to put it in a category or on its own

because what's the point and having the category? You might as well have the app open. Travel. That's a good idea. Is that everything then? You've got everything good, everything bad, everything awkward?

Yeah, I mean I didn't do a specific bad but that's mainly because I have three and I just can't decide between the three. Just barrel them off, write them off, go, go, go, go. Okay, well, my most immediate bad is I had a spray tan. Yeah. And it was the first time with this woman. Luckily, she doesn't know that I do a podcast, so she won't hear this.

But fuck me, it's so bad. Like, you actually can't see from this. You can't see. I will send you a picture because my hands are about 10 times. My hands on my feet are about 10 shades darker, no joke, than the rest of my body. I see this. Yeah, that's actually really not, right? It's shocking.

It's shocking. Just like, does it not like you're wearing gloves? Can I see your whole arm, please? Oh, God, it does like you're wearing gloves. It literally looks like I'm wearing gloves. It's so fucking bad. Dave is like gagging, looking at it, and I don't know what to do.

And I've Googled, like, how to get rid of fake tan. And I've tried acids, like, you know, skincare acids. I've tried, but to be honest, the next step is bleach, but I'm not sure because I have X-Moy, I don't think that's a good thing to do. I know so little about most things. I know so little about everything, but I just know that bleach and skin is not the one.

yeah but if it's a choice between between discolored skin and no skin i think you just choose discolored skin yeah yeah like red raw or bleeding yeah yeah yeah i'll leave that i'll leave that i'll leave that as my bad i'll say i'll save one for next week okay um let's introduce our guest this week so um our guest this week is called betty obviously for various reasons i love that name but we came across betty via an article in the times and the article was called my mum put me on a diet and wrote about it in vogue and betty's mom put her on a diet and wrote about it in vogue when she was eight years old and i thought it was fascinating because this is i mean a lot of moms have put their daughters on a diet and a lot of us will be able to

relate to that but it's like an extra level an extra layer of having it like documented in in fucking vogue you know like the biggest fashion bible ever like that's another level so we were like we've got to speak to her. She's from New York, but she was over in London, so we had her into the studio. And yeah, it was a fascinating interview, like super interesting. And I thought what was interesting as well is that maybe she writes about a lot about body positivity and body confidence and anti-diet.

So I didn't realize that perhaps she's still more in the thick of it than we realized. Definitely. it's very important to come into this first of all the trigger warning and say you know like this we are going to talk heavily about dieting and body image in this um but also i think the the reason we valued this conversation so much is that it is because betty is still dealing with the repercussions of her experiences as a child and i think that's like a very important thing to acknowledge because often when we talk about body image or body confidence or eating disorder recovery or whatever it is it's often done when the person is completely healed themselves

and at the end of the journey and so you know we'll go to pages of people that we admire online and Alex I'll use you as a really good example you're you have recovered from your eating disorder and you have you are therefore in a very good place to educate people about diet culture but I think you know it's it's a different level completely to talk to somebody mid journey and obviously we can't pin too much on them because we because they're still going through stuff and I think we have to it's a very just interesting thought process about how we um manage our expectations of other people in our lives and like what we take from other people and I think we've we've got a lot of compassion for betty because whilst what happened to her is kind of unique in the it was

in vogue, it was also incredibly common and hearing her speak, and not to sound condescending at all, because I think she's brilliant and smart and much more switched on than I was at her age. But hearing her speak, it did bring up a lot of memories of how I felt at her age. So I think, yeah, you can't look to every single person that has these conversations as being there with a magic wand to have all the answers and to have completely cured themselves and to be fixed and completely at peace with what's happened. but I think that's what makes this so interesting is hearing Betty's journey and hearing where she's at.

So yeah, like I think allowing lots of nuance and space and compassion and I think it will be very unifying for a lot of people who like Al said like, you know, have had difficult, maybe difficult relationships with their mums or even just their bodies because of, well, I don't know, because of this fucked up world, man. Yeah. And people who are still in the midst of, this journey, for lack of a better word, you know, who are still struggling and still, yeah,

finding, finding, like, their way to a better place because, like you said, I do think there's value in speaking to people who are in the, in the thick of it as well. Yeah, and on the road with you, we can't just ignore that. Not about the destination, it's the journey. Yeah, and I think it's just important to note that we can't vilify her or anyone who's still in the thick of it and still struggling. and we just have to come at it with compassion and kindness because that's going to be,

that's going to be the key and the answer to helping everything. Okay, yeah, guys, I hope you really enjoy it, and we are looking forward to hearing what you think. And please remember to just treat all of this with lots and lots of love and kindness and empathy and support, and we will see you on Thursday with another, is it just me? I've got a voice note to read out on Thursday. Oh, that's exciting.

Okay. Oh, that's an incentive to come back, guys. You know, when people say on advert breaks, don't go anywhere. Well, don't go anywhere because we've got voice note. Also, I wish one of our episodes went out on Tuesday because then we could say, see you next Tuesday. You can just say it anyway. We'll enjoy.

We will see you next week. Later this week. We'll see one with you. Okay, bye. See, Missy. Bye. Hi, Betty. Hello.

Thanks for having you. Thank you so much. You are literally fresh in this morning. You're plane landed at 8 a.m from New York, and you're here with us now. You're a legend. Does that make everybody else feel very cool? Because it makes me feel cool. Like she's flown in from you.

You're our first American guest. Oh my gosh. I know. She's just flown across the Atlantic and it kind of makes me feel like she's flown just first. I know you haven't. I mean, basically, this was first on my list. Like I had to come here first. See?

Makes us all feel cool. Yeah, as you should. Love your name. Thank you. My dogs call Betty. Oh, really? very beloved, I'm obsessed with her and I've got Betty there on my ring as well.

Oh my gosh. I'm going to steal that from you honestly. Yeah, you saw it. It's cool. We did the episode like, fuck this girl really likes me. You're like, oh my God, I swear. That says Betty on her hand.

What a creep. So, we really wanted to talk to you. I recently came across your story via an article in the Times with the headline that read, my mum put me on a diet and wrote about it in vogue. can you explain to the listeners what this was about what this is yeah because it's kind of a

fascinating story and a very like niche story but also one that um will resonate with a lot of people listening as well just in a smaller different kind of way right yeah totally yeah so when I was seven I was diagnosed with childhood obesity um and my doctor said you know for her health she needs to lose weight. And so my mom sort of spearheaded this effort to put me on a diet, to lose weight, and to make sure that I got back into that healthy range that my doctor had recommended. And that, you know, the diet at such a young age at, you know, seven, eight years old is pretty at at typical, but dealing with body image struggles, I think, at that young of an age is not that unique.

but of course my mom then took an extra step of writing about that experience in vogue and there were photographs of me in vogue and there was a lot of backlash against that article that she wrote because people felt like you know you shouldn't be fat shaming your daughter at this age you shouldn't be dieting you shouldn't be talking about these things and so it was pretty controversial then as it is now writing about it at this point. And so, yeah, I wrote this article for The Times, and more recently I've been talking in the media about body image and stuff like that.

I think because it's such a core part of my story of growing up, it feels natural that I would continue to talk about it now as I have gotten older. And it's a story that I think has resonated with a lot of people and sharing my, experiences and my struggles have, you know, people have said that it's been helpful to hear it from someone and someone who can be very honest about it. So I think that that's why I've

been motivated to continue to talk about it. And yeah, write that article that you read in the times. Yeah, I mean, I was, I was like gobsmacked because I think that is a very much a shared experience that our moms have a preoccupation with our weight and how much we weigh and how we look um because just that's just a symptom of their generation as well like it's just it's not that really their fault but um but for it to be spotlighted like that what did you think of that article and like when did you become aware of it honestly like i think that even to this day i've never read the article and its entirety my mom wrote a book afterwards that was a little bit more in-depth and talked a little bit more about her relationship with her body um and that i did

read. I think when I was 11 or so, so it was a few years after the whole experience had happened. But the article itself, I only ever sort of like saw pictures of. And I only saw like the pictures of me that were there. And I knew pretty early on what it was. I think because I'd been involved in the photo shoot with Vogue and because I was a hip, you know, young kid. I knew. I knew what Vogue was. I knew what, you know, all of these, like, what it meant to have that kind of publicity. I think I didn't totally, I was very intentionally sheltered from the media attention. I know my mom did some, like, press and a book tour, and I was very much not involved with any of that.

And I think because there was so much criticism, my parents wanted to make sure that that didn't fall back onto me. or that I didn't feel insecure about it or feel nervous about it. So it was this weird sort of gray area of knowing that I had been in vogue, but the only people that I was really hearing about it from were, you know, random aunts at weddings or family friends or, you know, kids at school would say, oh, like my mom read your mom's book or read your mom's article and she really liked it. And someone would be like, yeah, me too. And I was like, great, I have never read it.

I don't know what it is, but I knew my story. story and I knew that it had been publicized but so did you have like negative associations with it at that time do you think with the article yeah one memory that really like sticks out to me is at at my aunt's wedding um it was sort of the big the first really big event that had happened in our family right after the article came out people had been coming up to me all day with you know saying how how beautiful I looked and everyone was saying only very nice things but I was just you know tired from the day and a little overwhelmed and I walked into the wedding reception and someone came up to me and said, Betty, I saw you in vogue, you looked so beautiful. And I just burst into tears,

like, in front of, and she, I sort of like ran away and she, my mom said she like looked at her and was like, what did I say? That was supposed to be nice. I didn't mean to like upset her, of course. But the article was a reflection of something that has been true about me for a long time, which is that my body is the center of attention and that my body is the most noticeable and important thing about me. It feels a lot of the time. And I think that that was a lot of attention that I was uncomfortable with because, I mean, for one, obviously I had a lot of other things that I hoped people would notice me for, you know, whether that was being smart or being funny or things that don't have to do with how I physically look. But of course,

also because my body was talked about in a way that was critical most of the time. And it was something I was insecure about and continued to be insecure about. And so having all of that attention all the time on me was definitely, definitely hard, even though it was all so positive in terms of the reaction to the article, at least. At times it felt like it was a celebration of my body that I felt like was either like not, I didn't merit it or I didn't deserve it or it somehow was a veiled criticism of how I used to look. And I think in general, I just really didn't want people to talk about my body and didn't want people to focus on it, which is sort of now when I write and then talk about body image in general, like that is really what I, the point that I

want to drive home the most is just like, people's bodies should just be their own business. Right. And everyone feels the need to voice their opinions about everyone else's body. And I find it so insufferable. And yeah, it's horrible to have people comments on your body and also to just to comment on other people's bodies too. It just feels exhausting all the time. I had on a much less a scale, but just you speaking there reminded me. I remember my dad, who's a journalist, wrote once about um like how i was the shittest kid at sports day and obviously like that's funny like you know and i was shit obviously but i and i hadn't read it because i didn't read what he wrote but obviously like my friend's parents had read it and then been like oh he-h-he-he your little friend gets a mention

and she's shit at sports day so then my friends would come in and be like your shit at sports day and i'd be like oh my god and i was so up sex it's like oh my god because there's something really embarrassing about people being privy to a relationship that's quite, even if it's a joke, that's a relationship that's kind of private. And I guess, like, I mean, it's probably very different now with social media because we're all doing that to each other all the time in sharing photos and whatever. And that's a conversation for another time. But like that dynamic and in and of itself can feel, particularly when you're a kid, quite exposing in a way that you don't really like because kind of how your mum feels about your body or how my dad felt about me being shit at

sports day it kind of should be between us and then I guess it's like being put out for other people to read like was that something was was was that part of the dynamic for you like that it was your mom's feelings that people were reading about not just your body but yeah it was her kind of spearheading it if that makes sense totally and I think also because I was so young and it was so quickly after the diet had happened it did feel very much like this is is my story that is being told not by me, which is also why it has been so important to me and why my mom has been so supportive of me, you know, doing things like this and talking about that telling that story now that I'm old enough and have had time to reflect on it.

But I think the initial narrative being something that was very much out of my control. And my mom never, you know, said that she was speaking for me. She always was very clear that it was her perspective, what she had done, what she had thought. But of course, I was the story. Like the story was about me and my body. And so having that be presented in exactly what you were saying before is exactly right. Like it was something that felt very personal that was then being exposed, which was just, I think, a little difficult to experience. to feel like just, and even the not knowing, the not knowing the full extent of the criticism of the article, feeling like other people know things about me that I don't even know, having not read it or having, you know, been shielded from the discourse about it, just felt a little isolating at times. But I think that's mostly in retrospect. I think at the time I didn't really know what was going on and so I didn't think to feel that way.

But I'm glad now that I do have the opportunity to speak about it from my own perspective because I think that it would be difficult, much more difficult if that narrative was the only one that existed. And that version of my story was the only one that existed. And it was one that I didn't really play any part in. I'm just imagining how hard that must be as a kid when you're so conscious of your body. Like, I mean, the slightest bit of attention on my body when I was a kid. I mean, even now, like, you know, like, you, I wanted the ground to, like, swallow me up. Yeah.

And it's like in this, especially in Vogue, which is, as we all know, famously, a publication where anything that lies outside of thinness is very much reviled. Totally. That, I just can't imagine how, yeah. Do you think that has informed then your relationship with your body and food and the way you eat? Oh, 100%. Oh, really. I think, I mean, for one, the diet itself, obviously, just fundamentally shaped how I interact with food. What was the diet can I ask?

Yeah, totally. So I don't know what it was officially called. It basically was this system where you would have a certain number. They divided food based on certain amounts of calories into green lights, yellow lights, and red lights. So a green light was 100 calories. A yellow light was 200 calories and a red light was 400 calories. I think those numbers are right And so you would get a certain amount

Like for meals each day It would be like you have two green lights For breakfast and a yellow light And a green light for lunch Or whatever it was And it was just a way To teach portion control And counting calories

In a kid friendly way That's an oxymoron Which right It was definitely like It was hard I did not enjoy it But I also I often get told that I'm very like protective of my mom when I talk about these when I talk about what happened and like this whole process that I went through. And I think I am that way because I feel so strongly that her intentions were good. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that this like villainizing of her that happened after the fact. I think like she absolutely deserves certain amounts of criticism.

But I think that people don't know the whole story and don't know what her motivations were. And I think people feel like she was obsessed with this, with thinness and with this like aesthetic response or expectation for me. When really she was only motivated by health, but just the way that our society exists, that's a very confusing, vague. area to be in, like at what point is, I mean, our conception of health and the whole fact that I was obese because of my BMI was based on like a culture of medical fat phobia and of people being thinking that I was, you know, either, that I was necessarily unhealthy because I was fat, which for many people is true and for many people is not true. And the diet itself very much shaped the way that I interact with food and my body now.

And I think that the Vogue article very much cemented my body as something that is like for the consumption of other people, which is something I still do really struggle with. I think as I've gotten older, obviously, you know, girls are taught that their bodies are for men to consume growing up with, and I got Instagram when I was in like fifth grade. And so I, my body has been for like public consumption on social media and on the internet since I was at least, you know, that age. And that is definitely, it's, it's been hard for me to work on my relationship with my body as a private matter because so much of it feels tied up in how other people perceive my body and how other people see me. So yeah, I do think that it's affected me to this day. I totally get that you would be protective of your mom.

I totally get that because I think you can you can simultaneously like acknowledge the harm that there's, you know, the consequences that that article had and her preoccupation, should we say, with your weight, while also having compassion for the fact that that was like all she knew. Like she just didn't, like she didn't know any better. Like so many, like the entire generation. So that totally makes sense to me. And I think I wonder what you would like say to people, girls especially, I think, who are in a similar situation with their moms who they comment on their weight all the time.

They ask them, do you really need that? Yeah. Like, is that that is a very big portion. Like, you're not looking healthy, whatever it is. What would you say to those girls? Yeah, it's, I mean, it's tough because I think part of why my mom and I are able to have such a good relationship now is because we've basically entirely cut those conversations out of our relationship. Oh, really? I think, like, I needed to set a boundary in our relationship that my body could no longer be, like, a topic of discussion and could no longer be something for her.

to criticize or have opinions on. And it's not a perfect system, obviously. But I do think that, I mean, I would at least hope that in most situations where mothers are being critical of their daughters, that it is still coming from some well-intentioned place, as convoluted as that might be. That it's, I want you to feel good about yourself. I want you to be healthy. And I think it's definitely true that our mother is even more than us grew up in, you know, fatphobic societies. And it's, I mean, it's hard for me to break that cycle. It's even harder for someone who, you know, went through more of their life to break that cycle.

So it's tough, I think, to set that boundary because especially because weight is just such a hard thing to talk about. Like people don't ever want to talk about it. And so when it comes up, those conversations are always tense. And then talking about those conversations is even more tense. And I don't really have maybe that good of advice except to just say like being honest about how criticism makes you feel, being honest about how, you know, certain comments make you feel and how you feel about your body.

is what is going to have the most impact. But it was a long process of figuring that out for me. And I think I don't have it all figured out. Sometimes, you know, my mom will comment on something I'm wearing or something that I'm eating and I'll feel like I'm now in the practice of calling her out on it and of saying, I don't care what you think. I don't need to be hearing this from you. But it takes a while.

How does she take that when you say that? Is it? I think she knows that I'm right. Yeah. Of course, because our relationship is, you know, we've been dealing with these issues of body image and stuff for such a long time. I think she just knows not to fight back on it. And I think that part of that also comes from the fact that she trusts that we have similar goals, if that makes sense. like she has faith that I also want to be healthy and that I also um know how to take care

of my body and so I think she feels like her she doesn't need to be as overbearing or as critical because she can trust that I have my best interests at heart as well um but again like it took it took a while and and there's there were definitely times where she would say like what I'm not I just want like what's best for you or like the thing that would always drive me the most crazy is when she would say that things weren't flattering like oh that's not flattering on you and I was like that's just you're just saying it makes me look fat which and you're saying you don't want me to look fat like that that that is what that means but of course now I am very fixated on what is flattering too like I those those things can still translate to me but I think

she's gotten better at pulling back and and letting me just make my own decisions, though a lot of that has come from, I think, her mindset, just having been transferred to me a little bit, which is sometimes hard to deal with because it feels like am I really fighting against these things that I am critical of if I am still dressing in things that I feel like are flattering or A.K.A. me look skinny um i don't know what the answer to that is but i think yes i think definitely yeah it's hard yeah it's so hard yeah did you ever take insecurities or problems that you had with your body to your mom as in if if you ever felt um i don't know i used to find like shopping really hard and i like i hated the way that i looked when i went

shopping and I would like without fail have a breakdown to my mum every single time so I would take that and I know my sister did and I know lots of friends who would take their weight as a problem to their mum saying I feel insecure about this or whatever and and so I'd wonder if you if it was ever a conversation that you had with her because I'm trying to work out and it's sort of irrelevant but I think a lot of what you were saying and it does about mums it does come from a good place, which sounds, again, very wrong, but because they want to help you and they think this will help you. And I wonder if in any way that you had ever mentioned your body to your mom before the doctor said that you had childhood obesity and before you were put on the

diet. Yeah. I was, I mean, I was certainly bullied for my weight long before the diet ever came about um i remember the most cutting insult was in kindergarten i this kid that was just like a bully to everyone called me fatty patty at recess and it was just you know i i've never recovered it's not even your name no it was no no no it was called katia so they called her fatia catia fat yeah catia fatia because at least it rhymes right at least he should have come up with a better name if you want to call it that it's not even your name right yeah seriously um But yeah, so I knew that people thought it was fat, and I knew that I didn't look like the other little girls that were around me. And I think it did make me insecure.

I don't, I mean, I was so young, I don't really remember what that feeling was like. I do think that it got a lot worse after the diet. But I mean, I don't know if you guys were involved in like the Brandy Melville craze of like one size fits all shopping that like does not fit anyone. I think we're too old in English. But yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I was wondering if it was just like maybe in American. I think there is one here in government. Yeah, that's the only one I've ever seen.

And I've never gone in because one size does not fit all. not at all but yeah so when I was I'm trying to think when it was popular I guess when I was in like seventh grade maybe eighth grade and I yeah I just remember like I would go shopping and there and there were these like little tank tops that were full-sized tank tops on everyone else but like didn't go past my boobs and I had this one gray waffle knit tank top it actually it sort of looked like the one I'm wearing right now but it was gray um that I had for years that just like was not a shirt, like no one should have let me buy it. It did not fit me. But something about just like having a piece of clothing that did technically fit me that was from Brandy Melville that like had this one size just because it was so often a fight. And it was so often, no, it doesn't fit you, that I clung on to any, you know, sign that I could fit into the mainstream. But yeah, jeans shopping was always the worst. Like, I could never buy jeans.

And I think that I also went to my mom often with insecurities with this sentiment of, like, I want to lose weight again. I know that, like, you know how to do that. Like, you helped me do it once. And every couple of years when I, because I, after I lost the weight when I was seven, I, I gained it back within two years, I think. Then I went on Weight Watchers, then gained it back. I cut out carbs, gained it back, like over and over and over again. So every time that I would sort of get to that place,

another thing that was helpful for me and my mom's relationship, I think, was like, I started calling the shots. I started saying I want to go on a diet. I want to lose weight. And so because I was the one that was more in control of it, that doesn't mean there was not conflict. We definitely still thought about weight and food a lot. But I didn't feel like I was as much, it didn't feel as much as though she was controlling

me and my body. It was more of a partnership, I guess. Do you still diet? Or have you stopped dieting? Or is it something that you still do or like do occasionally? Yeah. It's a really good question. I think, I mean, the answer is yes.

Like, I do still diet. So the last true diet that I was on, my junior year of high school, do you call it junior year here? We do not. And you have said seventh grade, eighth grade number. Oh, my gosh. I want any of those. Okay, well, fifth grade, I was like 10, seventh and eighth grade, 11 and 12.

And then... I think they're a year behind us. I think year seven is there. Eighth grade. Okay. How old are you in, yes, in seventh grade? Seventh grade. I was young for my, I think you're usually 12. I was because I was young from my grade. Yeah. Okay. Okay. This seems silly. Yeah. Anyway, so, but around that, those sorts of general ages. So, junior year for me was 16. I was 16. And I did the keto diet. So that was like two years ago when everyone was going keto. And I was miserable. Like, I hated it. But I lost a lot of weight. I lost like 30 pounds. And once, I bounced back from that diet and gained that weight back, which sort of happened throughout

my first year of college and all of the anxiety and binge drinking and independence that comes along with that. I was just really fed up with dieting. And my dad and my grandma are both overweight. And they had both started taking a medication that helps with weight, And I sort of decided, like, it might be the easy way out, but I just like, I can't do another diet. I can't put myself through that. So for the past seven months, I've been taking weight management drug. I don't want to, like, I don't want to advocate for that as something that other people want to do if that's, like, not their choice. But for me, it was the solution that after years of fighting with my body, it just made, it has made existing in my body so much.

easier. And again, like this, this sort of goes back to that conflict of like, is that antithetical to my values and to my beliefs? And I think in some ways, yes, and I have to own that and accept that. But in other ways, like, I know what is good for my body. I know what will allow me to be my best self, which includes my mental health, my overall happiness, my confidence levels and my physical health is included in that. And that means that I need to be doing something about my body. Like I'm never going to be able to escape the mentality that I'm too fat all the time. And so this solution just ended up being one that was mentally easier for me.

It's interesting. Do you really believe that you will never? That was my question too. And I don't want like, I'm so loath to patronise you because you sound so like, you absolutely know your shit. So I don't want to come across. No, no, not at all. But you're, you're 19, 20? I'm 18.

18, 18. Like, I can't tell you how the depth of my despising of my body at that age. Yeah. And I honestly would have said the same as you. Like, there's just no, no way. Like, I would ever get a, I'd never, I'd ever learn to. not hate it. And fuck me. Like 10 years later, I really don't. Right. So, but do you really believe that it's just something that's always going to be with you? So, yeah, I mean, I guess then I,

I believe, I hope, certainly, that as I get older, I will find more permanent grace with my body. I don't know that that will be the case, though, because I just think that. I just, think that I, maybe because of social media, maybe because of the Vogue article, maybe because of the diet at such a young age, I just think self-criticism is so ingrained in my mindset. And also what is so ingrained in my mindset is fighting against that inclination towards criticism and towards, you know, criticizing my body. but I think that that nagging voice yeah I do think it's always going to be there

and I don't like right now I don't hate my body I feel like good and I feel healthy and I work out and I feel strong but I think there's always going to be something that I can find that I don't like about myself which I think is true for a lot of people And I also just think, like, at least for now, that's my reality. And so I need to do what I can to exist right now.

That makes sense. And I think living in the world that we do, I think it would be difficult for anyone to say that they'll never not have things that they don't like about their body. Like, even if you advocate for, you know, dismantling diet culture and fighting beauty standards, like, it's always going to be the case. because we can't live in this world without having that, like, seep, seep in, like,

osmosis, you know, it's really difficult. But I think what might be cool, and again, I don't want to sound like patronising or whatever, but it would be to have, like, that hope, like a bit of glimmer of hope. But then I was the same when I was in, when I was your age, probably up until, I mean, I'm 9034, probably up until, like, I was 30,

I thought that I would never be able to be at peace with my body like it just wasn't possible unless it was going to look a certain way I had like a certain idea in mind of how it should look and then I was going to like it like then I was going to be at peace with it and it's quite cool that like I always thought that the answer to that the answer to being at peace with my body was to change my body and make it look that way and it's fascinating to me how all that time the work was in my mind

however I'm sitting here as someone who has had years of therapy like I started therapy what like 10 years ago for my eating disorders so it has you know it's taken me a really long time but I think but yeah but I so understand where you're coming from like I so get it and like I just I thought you know I just I get it like I was exactly the same I just thought it's never going to be possible especially if you've got that inner critic

as well not to get like all therapy talk but like if you've got that inner critic which I'm totally putting words in your mouth here might be like a little bit representative of your mum or like that kind of maternal voice sort of saying like you're not good enough if you're not thin or you know you look better when you're thinner and stuff like that but yeah I hope it like can kind of like

work out a little bit and like I think what you're doing as well like the work that you're doing and yeah, hopefully, like, help you lead. I think to share, sorry, I'll interrupt you. I think to share what you've been through with your mom is so brave because I don't know anybody that hasn't experienced on some level that those comments from their mom. They're not deliberate in most cases or in many cases.

And it's something that we literally never talk about because I think we're really scared of upsetting our moms. So it's really cool that at this age that you're at that you've reached this really boundaryed spot with a parent because, I mean, boundaries with parents is like horrible. But it's like even like for like 60 year olds, I haven't got boundaries with their parents. But I think that to even put it into the outer space

that you've had these conversations because what we don't realize, and I've talked about this a lot on Instagram is how much. And it's like you can literally take any comment that a mother will say about your body and you can put it through like a diet culture translator and you get it out on the other side.

And it's what you were saying before about so much of it being from a place of love. But it will be like, I don't know, someone, oh, do you really need those extra rose potatoes? And they're not saying that because you don't need the extra rose potatoes. They're saying it because they would like the extra rose potatoes. But diet culture's got them by the nipples, so they can't have them.

going to lash out at you or are you going to wear that? It's probably because they wish they could wear that or whatever. And that was a really like pivotal thing for me. And it was only when I spoke to the people and realized that everybody experienced these comments and everybody was hurt by these comments because I wished that I was one of those people that someone could make a comment to and I'd just be like, ha, ha, I don't need to take this, but I did. I took it all to heart.

I was like, oh, God. And it was only through really here. hearing what people were saying with what they were saying. That makes sense. It was only by putting it through this translator that I basically realized that it was never about me. And that's a massive thing within this hugely image-based society.

It's all the projection. But we just never talk about being on the receiving end of that. And so many people are and unwittingly by their parents. And it's really important now, as we all get older, to hear from people like you, so we know not to talk to our kids like that and just create a safer space for them to make their own decisions and peace around their body. What would you say if you were meeting somebody like a new mum or a mum to a daughter or you were talking to them, what do you think, I don't know if you've ever done any inner child work,

but what do you think your inner child could have done with when you were coming home from school being bullied or feeling insecure. Like what in an ideal world could your mom or guardian have said to you that would have made it better? Yeah. Well, first I'll just say I think part of all of my commentary even about like the future

and about me feeling like I won't, you know, I'll never be at peace with my body is from watching my mom never be at peace with her body. Like my mom to this day, I'll see her. Maybe she won't like that I'm saying this, but whatever. Like she, I'll see her like,

in the bathroom, you know, saying like, oh, I feel so bloated or like, oh, I've gained weight. And she's, like, she is one of the, it's in my mind and in actuality is one of the skinniest people I know and is just, you know, she is so caught up in her own body that I think when I was in elementary school, when I was little, I, I would come home and see that. And I, that was the mindset that I then got was just this constant obsession and criticism. And she got it from her mom, who got it from her mom. And of course, it's a huge cycle. I think I was able to find not love all the time, but at least just acceptance and peace with my body. when I was just aware of all of the things that were contributing, when I sort of started feeling like, no, like, fuck those companies that are trying to, like, profit off of the fact

that, like, I feel bad about myself. Like, no, that's their problem. Like, I'm not, I am not going to feel bad about myself because someone is, like, making money off of that. I'm, like, not going to feel bad about myself so that, like, other girls at school can, like, laugh with each other about like the fact that I'm fat or what like no screw them like I like I wanted to do it for myself but I also wanted to do it just like show everyone else that I could not look like them and could not you know be skinny like them and could still have a great time which is not

doesn't always work like I I mean I'll just say like even going to going to college that whole adjustment period. I had sort of made circles for myself when I was in high school where I felt like weight was not talked about and weight was very much like out of the conversation and self criticism was often out of the conversation. And I got to school and that was not the way that a lot of my friends had gone through their schooling. And so that was hard was to come back and see girls that were a lot skinnier than me being like, oh, I feel so fat. I'm like, okay, well, I'm right here. So I don't know what you're trying to say. But, you know, confidence and body acceptance is like such a eternal process, an ongoing process that as much as it is motivated by this sort of spite and by this like reality check, I think it's all just about honesty and having grace and yeah, I guess I've gone pretty far away from talking to my inner child about it.

But I think, yeah, just to come back, you know, you have to model for your children what you want them to do. As much as my mom told me to love my body, the example that she set of not loving her own, I think was very damaging to me. Because that's all you know, that's all you see, that's all you hear, that's all you pick up is your. And of course, you compare yourself then if you have your mom who is thinner than you saying, I feel fat, then you just think, well, what the fuck does that make me? Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, I think we have to be really careful with our language around that.

But in terms of our personal responsibility, we also know that her feelings aren't your responsibility. And I think that's, I'm not saying this to you so much as to anybody listening who is also going through it, you don't need to make somebody else's insecurity, your insecurity. And just because it's somebody else's reality, it doesn't mean necessarily that it's going to be yours um because like time in i don't know if you know Alex has written an amazing book breaking down all this diet culture stuff and it's called you're not a before picture and i think that's what it teaches it's like you can break out of you're not going to press you're not going to

push your own books i was going to do it for you but you can break the cycle because it has felt like a terminal cycle of just like whatever but you don't and it's like what you're saying about when you ask why, which is what Al does in this book really well, but it's like if you ask why and you push enough back, all the why is so stupid that it just, you're just like, oh fuck that. Yeah. I'm not going to be miserable for all those like men making money from me. Exactly. Women feeling better about themselves to make me feel smaller. Yeah. Like, no thanks, not to be. It's so arbitrary. Yeah. But I think even like you were saying, at school when you were surrounded by people where like body image wasn't that big of a thing.

Like, even that, like, that's so, we can't underestimate, like, how powerful that is. Even if we live in this world where the overarching message is, be thin, but the circles and your circle as well is so powerful. Like, I feel like I'm in a, my space is pretty much, like, free of, like, diet talk, body talk.

I don't know, it just feels, and I think that's normal until I realize it isn't. And, like, recently I was in an environment where for quite a few days where people were like really sort of focused on body image and weight and what was eating and are you in shape and stuff like this and you feel that suddenly

you suddenly feel that sort of projected onto your own body and that starts to inform how you look and feel about your own body so I think like we can't underestimate as well the power of like that was probably a tangent sorry but it was like on my mind since you said it the power of and and that's just like in a small way like it's on a huge scale when you're a mum

with your children, especially your daughter and you're talking about your body, that's on like a huge scale. But even around you're like your friends and the people that you're around, if you can like stop talking about stuff like and saying, oh, I feel fat, I feel horrible, I feel ugly, you know, I've, I'm bloated,

I've put on so much weight and things like that really does kind of, it does just seep into your... But on a practical level as well, to recognize people are going to say that like we do live in this world so we have to out arm ourselves and the people around us to not just because it's not good enough to say well don't say these things because people will always say these things what we have to learn to do is not to make it about us yeah when somebody says I hate this you know like because

sometimes people are just saying I hate this and and my um I had a lot of life coaching before it If somebody said like, oh, I hate my hair and I thought they had better hair than me, I'd be like, oh my God, and I'd sit and I'd spin. I'm like, why am I, why have I done this? And like, and I can swap the thought totally from like making their hair about me because it wasn't about me and it was very egocentric for me to make it about me. And instead be like, well, that's sad for you. And then just leave the thought there, which I think is quite powerful,

just in terms of like talking before about like breaking the cycle, because we are going to be in those environments where people talk about their body. And for me, just a really powerful thought is just like, okay, that's sad for you. Yeah, I think the two sort of tools that I have developed for myself that other people don't always like so much, but they work for me is one, I think like what you both were having talking about, which is like pushing back against either just leaving it. It's like sometimes you just don't have the emotional energy. You just can't totally. You cannot make other people's problems, your problem. But if I'm feeling a little bit more, you know, strong, some days I'll be like, well, why do you say that?

What, like, what? And because then if you can get other people to question their own ways of thinking about their body, whether it be about weight or, yeah, about their hair, whatever it is, you can maybe just start that process for them, too, of them thinking, oh, like, why do I criticize myself so much? What is the actual thing that I'm thinking, the actual insecurity, the actual anxiety that is at the root of my criticism that I feel the need to vocalize? So that is one, like starting those conversations maybe also with others. And then two, I think I'm sure it was like a stupid Instagram infographic that I read this in. But, you know, the whole thing that's like if you make self-deprecating jokes all the time, your self-esteem is going to go down. Oh, God, I do those. So I started doing the opposite, which my friends will attest to, whereas, like, I'll walk into a room and I'll just be like, oh, I'm the hottest person here.

Like, a hundred percent. Like, there's just no, like, and when people don't know me, they're like, who the fuck is that? Like, why is she saying that? But my friends are used to it by now, I think. And, like, it obviously it's a joke. And when I first started doing it, you, like, feel sort of, like, silly and insecure. But if your go-to, like, candid, casual talk about yourself is positive, I just find myself being so much, like, lighter and happier.

And it's my default is no longer criticism. Like, my default is, even if it's in a joking way, to put myself up instead of put myself down. And it's like, it seems so small and so silly, but it is totally reframed my mindset. I have loved that. Literally never thought to think about that, ever. You should start. But I am going to start doing that. Yeah. That's, yeah. Because it's just powerful. Like, it's, you know, no one is going to be like, I mean, maybe they will, like, be a little bit judgy about it. But it's awkward to walk into a room and, or like, for someone to be like, oh my God, like, I'm so fat. It's like, what is someone else supposed to say to that? Whereas

it's very true that's a bit of a buzzkill yeah when you walk into a party oh god and then you know one put if you if you shut down when you walk in you kind of ruin it for yourself right maybe even for the people that you're with but what a vibe to come in and be like shit yeah oh my god I love that see my best friend's done that about herself for years I was gonna say she's had a lot of their time today my best mate Sarah honestly what she's just like I am fucking stunning and just talks you know like her standards for herself she's just so, but she's, and she, I mean, she is, but she's also just got this glorious confidence and I just love it. I think let's all, let's all do that. Let's all do

that. That's all be more Betty. I love that. B, M, can we put that on a fridge magnet? Be more Betty. Be more Betty. I love that. Be more Betty. Yeah, BNB. BNB. I love that. Betty, thank you so much for coming. Thank you so much for having me. This was such an awesome conversation. Such a cool conversation and absolutely just love chatting to you. And yeah, thank you. And enjoy the your time in London. Thank you. Thank you for flying all the way from New York. Just to talk to us.

I'm flying out tonight. Yeah, the red eye back. Yeah, exactly. Thank you so much. Of course. Should I delete that is part of the ACAS creator network.