Should I Delete That? - One false allegation destroyed my career... with Jess Thorpe

Episode Date: September 28, 2025

Jess was an NHS nurse working on a mental health ward when a false accusation was made against her, which led into a spiral of bureaucracy that ended her nursing career and changed her life forever… Although Jess very rarely does interviews - her story was highly publicised in the UK press, so we wanted to give her the opportunity to tell her story in full and in her own words.We spoke to Jess about the fragility of women’s reputations, the pressures on nurses and healthcare professionals and how we can both love the NHS but also hold it accountable on the occasions that it does let us down. Follow @thesliceofjess on InstagramIf you want to get in touch you can email us on [e-mail] Follow us on Instagram:@shouldideletethat@em_clarkson@alexlight_ldnShould I Delete That is produced by Faye LawrenceStudio Manager: Elliott MckayVideo Editor: Celia GomezSocial Media Manager: Sarah EnglishMusic: Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

A patient made a navigation against me and said that I was in a relationship with him that goes beyond, like, staff and patient. During a one-to-one, he'd kind of said that he thought I was pregnant with his child. And that is where a lot of the headlines come on. Hello, and welcome back to delete that. I'm like Slite. I'm M. Clarkson, and oh my gosh, what a guest we have for you today. You might have heard of Jess. Jess was a nurse who was falsely accused in 2020 of being in a relationship with one of her patients. After a really lengthy process, Jess's name was cleared, but that's not the end of the story, unfortunately. As we know, a woman's reputation is so fragile. And I think that was the thing I was really

struck by having this conversation. And we wanted to do one of our outro, intro type things. We've literally just finished recording with Jess. To stress, having read this story before, having spoken to her and even hearing parts of it, there is a bit of me, a very protective part of the NHS that hears this and thinks, oh my gosh, this just feels like a total anomaly and like, surely it's not the NHS's fault. And I'm sort of trying to defend it and make excuses for it. But I am so struck sitting in front of Jess. What a horrendous ordeal this has been and how it has completely, and I don't want to say ruined, but changed the trajectory. of her life. Her reputation is forever affected. The headlines that came with this story

will follow her forever. And ultimately, she is now unable to work in the profession that she loves and wanted and worked so hard for. And I feel this great sense of injustice and sadness for her having spoken to her. It's true. She was treated so badly and it was all handled so badly. And I think this isn't about NHS bashing, but we also have to tell Jess's story and let Jess tell her story. A hundred percent. And I think loving something doesn't mean that it's blameless and being grateful for something doesn't mean that accountability can't coexist. And I think we just wanted to stress that before we started to say, you know, we've got an overstretched NHS and the last thing it needs is another area sort of digging at it. And that's

not, for any healthcare professionals listening, that is totally not what this is. But as Al said, it was so important to hear Jess' story because as it turns out, this isn't as one in a million as we first thought. Yeah, and I guess this doesn't necessarily have to be about the NHS. It could be applied to any kind of business or company. I mean, any woman's situation really, because of, as we talk about so often, how fragile a woman's reputation is and a woman's reputation is everything. think. And it's been really hard to hear what that looks like in person for someone as we sat down

with Jess and talked about it today. It's been really hard to hear that play out. 100%. I think obviously speaking to her humanises something that we know to be true. And yeah, I think it's an incredible story. And I think it's amazing that she's come through the other side. And we're so grateful she does not do podcast interviews a lot. She doesn't talk about this a lot. So we're really, really grateful that she chose us to talk to. I know. And also, guys, can we all go and follow her? Yeah. At The Slice of Jess. Because like Em said, she is, she's kind of not able to go back to her career now in nursing, what she trained for, what she loved doing. She's not able to. This is now her career as a social media influencer. So I think if we can

all give her that support and go follow her at The Slice of Jess, that would be a really cool thing for us all to do. But without further ado, here's Jess. Hello. Hi. Thank you for coming in today, all the way from Newcastle. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited. Well, no, we're really grateful to have you in to tell us your story, which is a very unusual story. A little bit, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Before we started, you said you don't do that many interviews about this. No, I've been approached, but I think I was just saying it. I I think if I was going to do any podcast, it would be this one. I'm a listener. So I know that it's going to be a nice conversation and I think it's the right place for me to kind of get the story

from my perspective, correct. So that's really, it sounds like I was just setting you up to give us a compliment. That wasn't what I was doing. I just wanted to know, I guess, why you are hesitant to do, to do interviews. Just based on the couple that I have done and others that have like, reports that have been done without me have a very set narrative that they want to push and it's nothing it's not a bad narrative against me but it's not quite right um so i think sometimes when i've gone for like or done an interview over the telephone or something they just print what they want anyway so and it's not entirely what i said it's not incorrect but it's not really the story it's just a good headline so yeah let's let you well let you tell your story completely in

your own words then. Can we go from the beginning? Yeah. Explain to the listeners what happened. So I started working for the NHS in 2016. So I was a healthcare assistant. So I probably would have been about 21, 22, which seems like a lifetime ago. And I was working on a psychiatric unit for men who'd come in contact with the criminal justice system. So it was people who'd either come directly from prison or, I don't know, they're waiting for their court case or something like that. And it was an acute assessment ward. So people were coming in and we would assess kind of whether they were unwell or treat them, etc. And sometimes they'd be in short periods of time, sometimes they're in for a long time

because they'd get treatment from us as well. And it was about four years in in 2020. I applied for my nursing degree through the trust. I did the apprenticeship scheme. Started that in the January of 2020. I was really excited. And then in the April, a patient made an allegation against me and said that I was in a relationship with him that goes beyond like staff and patient and said that we were basically like boyfriend and girlfriend. So I was immediately suspended and sent home. I'd like come in on shift and just sent home basically. And they didn't really tell me why. They just said that an allegation had come in and it was of a safeguarding nature

and that I had to go home and they were going to do their fact-finding and I was off for two weeks. It was a two-week suspension. This was April 2020? Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

That's crazy because that's a month into COVID. Yes. Yeah, literally. So going home to not even being able to speak to my family or friends or, I mean, I was told that I wasn't allowed to speak to anyone about this anyway. but yeah going home to my cat um and it just kind of went on from there and i didn't find out what the allegation was until after those two weeks and they said oh you're like we're going to

extend your suspension and um they told me what the like the outline of the allegation was did you have in this during those two weeks where you didn't know did you have any idea what was going on? Like, not totally, but I had an inkling because this patient had been quite over familiar. I'd made some, not complaints, but I'd kind of expressed in my supervisions and things that I wasn't quite comfortable working with him. And I'd even asked, like, to move wards that it got that bad kind of thing. It was, it was just very, like, he was seeking me out all the time. He wasn't going to other staff. He was, you know, always asking whether I was on shift and things like that. And then during, a one-to-one he'd kind of said that he thought I was pregnant with his child. And that is where

a lot of the headlines come on. But he told me that he thought I was pregnant with his child. And then I'd like written that in the notes, reported it. I'd feel as though I'd gone through all the right avenues. But then when I got sent home, I was like, could it be that? But I mean, I haven't done anything, but I don't know what else it could be. So I had a little bit of an inkling, but I wasn't 100% sure. There's so much in that that's horrible because you're so young and obviously you're a healthcare professional. So you're very professional in how that dynamic works. But it's quite an intense position for a young woman to be in any way working in that environment.

And to have flagged all of that and, you know, like for the avoidance of doubt, there's literally that's, there's no way you were pregnant with this. Yeah. There's like, so to have flagged it, did anybody come from? to you from a safeguarding perspective, if you're putting in the notes and flagging it with your superior saying, this is what he's seeking me out. He said that I'm pregnant. Did no one say, can we help you? Not really. They'd sort of said, you know, maybe just be careful, like, distance yourself, but on a 10-bedded unit, which is locked, how much distance can you really put

when you're working one-to-one with these patients? And they'd sort of said, well, you know, at the time my I remember my manager saying that I was young and blonde and pretty and not directly that I should expect this but it was just kind of well you're young and blonde that feels like the inevitability with it yeah with the the trope right but that's kind of how you think of it but then you think and surely in reality if they can take it this seriously from his side why could they not have taken it I'm getting ahead of myself but if you're flagging it that to seem to not say God you at any point yeah and then to take it that seriously on the other side feels quite unfair yeah i think they they saw it that

they thought it was a positive working relationship at the time i think they saw it as that until he made the official allegation um because like i say when i'd said i feel like i need to move wards even just temporarily just to get that space that you've told me to get um it it was oh it's fine don't worry you know it's a positive relationship and And when I look back on it now, I think it was handled so wrong. You know, I almost feel like I was kind of baited a little bit because he would, you know, he was reluctant to take his medication unless I was on shift. So I would be in the room with like, come on Jess, let's go and like give him his medication.

And it, I don't know, it kind of felt like it was all okay when it was going their way. and then when it wasn't it just kind of the tables turned I mean does the trust have like how does it work do they have a responsibility

once an allegation is made against a member of staff like that do they have to suspend you? I believe so I don't think it's always sent home some people have like non-clinical duties so I mean we used to say like

oh they've been sent upstairs and they do like an admin based role whilst they investigate whatever had happened but in terms of mine I think because of the nature of what the allegation was I think they just they just said let's just send her home and get her away from all patients and yeah because you know reading about it before having met you and before hearing because as you say the interviews the stories that I've read have kind of been your voice is kind of not felt necessary to how they've told the story so reading between those lines, it felt like this was a sort of patient that maybe you'd met once or twice and he made

this allegation and obviously then you had to go home because that's how there's due process and that kind of makes it seem fair enough. But it does feel it, you know, you're not talking about some like system that's absolutely ginormous. Like you said, there's 10 of you in the room. So your superiors, presumably who he made the allegation to, were already familiar with the dynamic. that feels therefore a disproportionate reaction given as how you tried to communicate it and as you say you'd been I mean it sounds like you used while it was going well and then disregarded when it wasn't but also at a time when the NHS could have probably really done with you yeah I think it was it was odd like I feel like I dedicated a lot of my life a lot of

my time to my job. I worked a lot of shifts. I did a lot of extra work for them. That was obviously like, you know, beyond my pay grade, as people say. But I was happy to do it because I wanted to progress. I wanted to become a nurse. I wanted, that was my career choice. And to suddenly, like, go home and not do anything.

And especially during COVID, I kind of felt like I was a little bit useless. I was like, you know, I can do something. but I had no choice, really. The allegation that he made, was it accusationary or was it like we're in love and she's having my baby? Or was it more like I'm making a complaint about her? It was we're in love and we're having a baby.

In his mind, he'd created this whole relationship. We'd been sneaking off on the ward and things like that is what he kind of thought was happening. I know this protocol that has to be followed and I know that there's, you know, there's the safeguarding of patients and stuff. But I'm surprised that that allegation was taken so seriously, given or I guess, like, yeah, well, you just said, like, given the context and given that he was a patient in a mental health facility and he had been displaying all these signs of, you know, this stuff towards you.

Yeah, I feel like there was definitely. Because that must happen a lot in mental health facilities. surely? I think there's definitely steps that they could have taken prior. Like, for example, when I said, I think I need to move wards. They could have just moved me.

They should have. It wouldn't have caused too much. They could have swapped me with another member of staff on a different ward and, like, given that space. In terms of, like, allegations, they do happen.

I would say not, they're not always taken as seriously as this one. And it's not that, I don't know how to word it, But an example that I'll give us, this same patient had also made an allegation that he thought that doctors were terrorists. And it's just one of those things where people just thought it was so far-fetched. Well, obviously, the doctors, you know, aren't terrorists and they're doctors. And I think when it came to the potential of a young blonde female having an inappropriate relationship, they were like, well, maybe.

it kind of felt like okay so why didn't you take the other one seriously you know I don't want to get ahead of myself because this is something that went on for years and years and you've been through so much with it but looking back at that time specifically do you harbor animosity towards or any ill will or frustration or anger at the people whose decision this was because like you say there is protocol to follow we are talking in the context of there being a global pandemic like you know everybody And the NHS is underfunded and very stretched. And we all know that. And I think you've been really clear in everything I've ever heard you say this isn't NHS bashing. And that's not, you know,

the sort of point. But do you feel looking back angry? Or are you like, no, they had to do that? I think they had to do the initial process. I've got no issue with being sent home suspended for those couple of weeks, even for a little bit longer if they needed to do a bit of extra digging or whatever they needed to get other staff in for to ask them questions or whatever. It's how I was treated after that, the ongoing process and then kind of how I was treated by my colleagues and immediately just cast out, you know, there was there was a few people who I would have classed as my friends just disappeared, but it completely disappeared. And suddenly I was being deleted and blocked off various social medias.

And I thought, surely they can't believe. this is actually true, but I don't know what they're being told at work because I'd been told that I can't have contact. I don't know whether they've been told that they couldn't have contact with me as well. But in that sense, that wouldn't then lead them to remove me off various platforms and whatever. So I just kind of think, I don't know what they were told. I'm assuming that they were told, oh, Jess has just done this horrible, awful thing. Car off. Have they since reached out to you after? No. I'm in two minds as to whether it's either that they still think that something went on

because I think the narrative that was being presented was very like she's done this. So I don't know whether they still think that I've done that or they've realized that they were rather embarrassingly wrong and they just don't want to, I don't know, maybe they think that I don't want to speak to them or I don't know. So you went home, you were at home for two weeks, it ended up being extended. Then what happened? Extended again and again and again. I didn't have a meeting until, actually I had a meeting probably about six weeks in,

which was where they kind of like really outlined kind of what was going on, what the allegations were and things like that, and asked me a few questions. And then it wasn't until maybe June or July the following year. So like 2021, I had my disciplinary hearing. Why? Sort of. I was being paid, but not correctly. This was part of one of my claims was an unlawful deduction of wages. I was being paid, but not as I should have been. And obviously, I picked up a lot of bank shifts, a lot of extra work that I wasn't then allowed to do. And I was also told that I wasn't allowed to get another job anywhere else because I'm still employed under the NHS.

So I was being severely underpaid. So you didn't work for a year, over a year? No. Wow. And you waited until June. And was that a tribunal that you had? No, that was the disciplinary hearings. That was still within the trust and their trust lawyers, which are capstan.

their lawyers do the kind of disciplinary stuff and it's, then it's me and my union rep. Were you allowed to talk to your family during that time? Funnily enough, I asked permission because they were very, they were very, you cannot talk about this. This is a very serious safeguarding allegation and they sat in the other and I was like,

I can't at least tell my mum? Like, you know, and they were like, well, yeah. Because you're sent home during a pandemic alone, ostracized from everybody that you work with, not able to do anything else, socially distanced, in lockdowns, that's outrageous.

Yeah. And I think the things that were going on during those time between, you know, being suspended and get into that final disciplinary, I kind of went into that thinking,

they're going to suck me because the things that I'd requested, which would back me up, like my supervisions, where I'd said, you know, I want to be moved. And I'm not comfortable working with this patient. asked them 13 times and then they were they were unavailable wow what did they mean unavailable I don't want to make any accusations but they went missing they weren't available for me to use

as evidence on my side can I ask what took so long what why why was the disciplinary like a year and a bit later there was a couple of things first of all I think just COVID was a general excuse between me being suspended. I think it was about eight months after I was suspended. That was when the patient died. So the patient died, I think, in the December of 2020. So it was in my disciplinary hearing in that June, July or whenever it was of 2021, where they said, oh, because of the patient passing,

there's been things going on in terms of like the police has been like involved. It's going to go to the coroner's court. things like that and obviously I kind of I didn't know that he'd even passed away I kind of went silent I think

on the meeting because it was all done over Zoom not Zoom teams and they said oh well we thought you knew well how would I know how would I know

I've been completely outcast from any communication the communication even from the trust was severely lacking and them to then just say oh what he's died it's like okay and I think my immediate thought was oh my god are they going to try and pin this on me I don't know how we died

I don't know what what had happened but I'd given kind of how the process was going already I was thinking they're going to try and turn this on me so like I'd asked for a break from the hearing and spoke to my union rep I said what the hell do we do here like what is this what's going on And they'd said, well, I don't know, but we'll just have to carry on the meeting and see what's going on. I'm not surprised you were scared that they were going, because I can imagine that you've been in the dark for so long. You were in the dark for ages with it, not really knowing any details. And suddenly this has sprung on you.

That is quite scary. It's also, I imagine quite, you know, you work in an emotional capacity with these people. And you are connected to this man and, you know, not a very nice way at this point. But, you know, you had known him, and it's a human, I think, listening to this, you know, there's a really big part of me, and I suspect probably people listening as well think we're very protective of the NHS. And I think people instinctively want to say, well, it's not their fault. They're overstretched and everybody's doing their best. And we need to be grateful for it and we mustn't ever say a bad thing. And like there is, I feel that protectiveness as you're speaking where I'm keep trying to defend them in, you know, in part and in the way that I can to rationalise it. But then, you know, here in your side, it's like, you know, We're forgetting that this is an incredibly traumatic, never mind anything else. It's a traumatic thing to have to find out that you've, you know, you've lost a patient. Yeah, I think as well, in mental health services, it shouldn't happen. You know, people shouldn't die unless it was a disease that they already had or something that's, like, developed.

But when they're under our care, they're under 24 hours observation for a long period of time. So you do build that kind of connection because you, you know, you help them recover. So hearing that, died, it was obviously sad. But I was thinking, what, what this happened? How was this happened? Were you scared of giving a reaction when they told you that he died? Were you scared of giving a reaction because that might have confirmed that there

was something between, do you know what I mean? I think that's what I would be thinking in my head is like, don't give a react, don't look sad, don't look. Yeah. I think at the time I was. at first I was thinking like obviously how does this happen but I was thinking if I if I get upset or if I you know are they going to then say well why would you get upset over somebody that you didn't that you weren't in a relationship and fire yeah so I try my best to stay neutral

because I think you know it was probably the best way and that meeting wasn't about that it was about whether I was coming back to work on after and how did the meeting end um I was cleared they told me I can come back to work and somebody would be in touch to kind of arrange a staggered, like, re-entrance or whatever, and I would be moved to a different hospital as well because obviously there'd been a lot of rumours, a lot of gossip, a lot of, you know, everything, staff and patient, I imagine. And I think a lot of that had fuelled the whole case to start with.

So moving me to a different hospital, I thought that that's fine. I can just start somewhere new. And then I think it was about two. weeks later, I get an email from the chief operations officer of the trust, which is like second in command, basically saying, sorry, you can't come back. We just can't come back. There's other things going on. I can't remember the exact wording, but basically saying there's other things going on that

we can't really talk about, but I'll grab a meeting with you at some point. But yeah, just you're not coming back to work. So that was July? Yeah, of 2021. Okay. Would quitting have been an option for you at this point if you'd wanted to? Could you have just said no? Yeah.

Yeah. I could have just said, oh, I'm not coming back, maybe gone for another job. My worry was that there was somebody else who was in a kind of similar situation to me. They'd been sent home for an allegation. I don't know the full details of it. And they had just quit before the end of everything. before everything had concluded, and they wrote to the DBS. They concluded it on their own terms and wrote to the DBS to say that she can't work

with vulnerable people, adults, children, etc. And I thought, well, I don't want that. So you needed to see it through so that you knew your name was cleared, so you'd be able to go and work elsewhere. And I think because they'd read out a letter that they were going to send me in the post, which had basically said that I was coming back to work and that I, you know, the allegations had been unfounded. So I guess, if anything, I was waiting for that letter as well, which, funnily enough, didn't actually come until I was in court with them.

So how did you end up in court with them? So it wasn't until I'd had these meetings with the COO, and that was, they invited me back to work officially again in October of 2022. What? See what offworked for 18 months? No. Yes, 18 months. Two and a half years? Two and a half years.

I might have got that year wrong, 2020. No, you're right. 2020, that's two and a half years. Yeah. Sorry, I got that wrong. Yeah. So. But why?

Why weren't you allowed back the first time? It was because, I now know that it was because they were still investigating the patient's death and they didn't want, I'm assuming they didn't want me in the way of that. They didn't want me to be coming in contact with anyone who might have, questioned policies and whether they were being applied appropriately and things like that. And I wasn't even there when he died. So I don't think I could have offered anything to it. But given that the allegation was from that patient, I don't know whether they just didn't

want me there potentially saying something that they didn't want me to say. Does this feel like it was just lots of red tape? Do you think people, is it, does it, did it just feel like there was just no humans connecting you to anything at this point and it was just everybody was just pushing it away because they were scared of something. Yeah, I think I think I went five months without hearing a peep from the trust.

What were you doing during that time? I started my social media. Yeah, fair, yeah. I started completely by accident, to be fair. I just started putting like pictures of my food up on Instagram as people did back when Instagram started. Just as like a thing for me because I was like, okay, well if I've got this time off,

You know, I knew at the time, I haven't done anything wrong, I'm going to go back to work and it's going to be one of those things that we look back and not laugh about, but like, go on, you know, when I remember where this happened. And I thought, if I've got this time off, well, I might try to lose a bit of weight. I might, you know, have myself a bit of a glow up and then whatever. So I posted some stuff on Instagram and then it just kind of blew up a bit. So that's kind of what I was spending my time doing, just keeping yourself busy. Yeah, keeping myself busy.

I wasn't allowed to get another job. So that was the only thing. that I could do. Were you allowed to earn money off social media? Um, I don't know. I didn't earn money straight away. Yeah. I'd say you probably were.

I can't think why you wouldn't be. Yeah. I'm not. Yeah, I'm not entirely sure. No, yeah. Oh well, done now. You actually never went back to work. No.

As a nurse. No. It was after the, invited me back that second time um again it was about three weeks before anyone got in contact and somebody said oh um can we like try and integrate you back to work i'm at should we set up a meeting and i was kind of toying about whether should i go back can i go back like if i go back am i going to have a panic attack or like a meltdown or like what's going to happen if i go back because I feel like my name has been completely just pulled through the mud. And despite the

fact that, you know, my colleagues were, were on that ward. They might not be now. I think a lot of them have probably dispersed throughout the trust. And I will come across somebody who thought, thinks or thought that I'd done it. So I'd spent that time kind of thinking, you know, can I go about what am I going to do? Maybe I could try and work for another trust. I don't know. And I ended up, just putting my notice in and I said wrote quite a long notice outlining the exact details of why I was handing my notice in and then I was speaking to my mum and dad and they I think from quite earlyish on in thought this is so wrong she needs to do something about it but I didn't I've never done anything like that before like take them to court or I've never filed a like a case for

anything um so i left and then yeah got in touch with the solicitor the reason that you left was when you got that letter saying that you could come back to work was that what you'd been waiting for so that your name was cleared well i so they never actually sent me that original letter that was what i'd wanted um and the email saying yes he couldn't come back to work did not outline that I had been cleared of anything. So I was like, I want that letter. I want that one that was from the first. And did you communicate that to them? Yeah. Yeah. So did it feel like you tried and tried and tried to clear your name as it was they were going to kind of sneak you back in through the back door, try and integrate you and you just said at that point said I've just had

enough. Yeah. I mean, I even put in a freedom of information request and it never been ever sent it. Yeah. So I feel like I've gone through every avenue to try and get that letter and they're just never were never forthcoming with it. Because I think, you know, like thinking about it and reading the articles that I have already and knowing how the British public can be manipulated by the news and how we tend to think, I imagine that part of that narrative felt to you like it was, or how it was reported maybe, but you sort of strung them along this whole time and they just left anyway when they were kind of trying to resolve it. But, you know, in your words there, it's like you

you tried, you tried very hard for very good reason to do it the right way and to get your name cleared and to have meetings and conversations. But through no fault of your own there, it took two and a half years. And you kind of had to leave when you did. Yeah. At that point, given the conversations that I'd had with, you know, the top management of the whole trust, the conversations and the way that those meetings were held, I kind of, I mean, I don't know whether I don't know what I should say this, but like, I'd kind of lost respect. Like, I just hadn't, I had no kind of respect for that hierarchy anymore because of the way that it was being handled. You know, I practically had to beg them for counselling, for Christ's sake.

Like, you know, I had the standard six weeks or six sessions that you get as part of the thing and, you know, had those and they suddenly stopped and they said, well, you've had you've had you a lot. and I practically had to beg them because my mental health was down the toilet and the way that I was being communicated to about that was just kind of well I mean we'll try and get some more sessions but like you've had you a lot

oh my God that's so hard that's so hot because you said your mental health was in the bin down the toilet I'm so not surprised at all because as well you were living with much uncertainty for so long.

Yeah. In this permanent state of uncertainty, that must be horrible and not knowing what's going to happen next. And was there any point, were you always sure that your name was going to be cleared? Or was at any point that you thought, I'm a bit concerned about the other potential outcome of this? I was, I was a bit concerned because there was, you know, not only, it was just the way everything was conducted, even, you know, the supervision's disappearing.

one supervision did appear that wasn't signed by anyone. It had everything in it that they wanted in it. And it was dated for a year previous to when the document was created. And I don't think they knew that I could find that out through the information on the document. But I kind of think, if they're creating stuff to try and get rid of me, like, what are they going to come up with next? I didn't know until that very last meeting

whether, you know, they were going to say, yeah, come back, or no, you're not coming back and we're going to put black pain all over your name and you can never work with anyone again. Because it was still, although it was the investigation into the patient's death and things, it almost felt like they were still tying that to me somehow. So I didn't know whether they were just,

going to come back and say, well, no, we think you've done it. Because I mean, as well, you know, you're training to be a nurse and you've been working as a nurse. It's, that's not a, it's not transferable in the, in the regard, like, all I was working in marketing, so now I'm going to go and try my hand it. You know, it's, you're doing something very specific in an industry that your, um, character is everything, your references are everything, you know, and people are, you are being trusted with people at their most vulnerable. So even, you know, I imagine as time's going on, it's like, that's more explaining that you're going to have to do to any future employers. And it's, you're so young.

It's your whole life and reputation in the hands of like one crazy situation. Like, you know, this is just, it's completely, as you're speaking, I'm like, this is so unusual. Like, you just can't, you can't write it. And it feels so frustrating that you had this one non-truth, this one day that just set you down a, path of bureaucracy that can that decimated your mental health and and and had the potential to ruin your career and you know if you dream of being a nurse yeah and i think unfortunately it has ruined that career because you know even trying to get another job within another trust in the NHS it's it's unfortunately blocked like i've tried to get into another trust as a

health care assistant and there was a slight wording on my reference which meant that i couldn't get that job. Oh, man. I'm so sorry. That's so awful. So it just kind of feels like, well, what can I even do now? Because I don't have, like you say, any transferable skills to other places. I did work in the private sector for a while, which is not for the week. But I think that was before all this came out. I don't know whether they just didn't look at the reference, but I don't know what was on that reference, but I know that for the NHS one. There was, incompatible working relationships is my reason for leaving and that meant that kind of raised a red flag for the new trust and said well what what's this and I had to explain the

situation they wanted that letter that I never got which this is so unfair that's what they referenced as your end yeah incompatible working relationship yeah this is insane it's so unfair I actually feel very angry for you yeah reading the story again it seems and and I know because we are influencers. I know how people can weaponise being young and blonde and pretty and then being on social media and being a woman and being, you know, like you're up against lots of things and like I say, everyone's very protective of the NHS. It feels quite easy for people to dismiss it as like, oh well, she had this complaint, then she took them to court and then, and now she's an influencer. And it's like, we're just going to close that box. But it's like, no, throughout this,

you have fought so hard to do what you love doing. And you've ended up in, you've ended up in you've thankfully landed on your feet and you're brilliant at what you're doing now and I hope you're really happy doing it. But it does feel so frustrating that not only have you had this frustration, you are up against this kind of like unspoken, except spoken lot, prejudice and narrative that's like, well, this is an unusual situation, but, you know, like, we're just going to shrug that off. And then after all that she left and it's like, what choice at every single turn?

You've been given no choice. And I think, like I say, if I had left, I think they would have just gone to the DBS and that would have closed even more doors. Because I think even the fact that I took them to court and was successful, I think applying for any job now, if they've got two applicants that they're interested in hiring and they Google, because they're going to Google your applicants, they Google my name, they're going to say, oh, okay, she's taking an employee to tribunal. And then they've got somebody with the same qualifications who hasn't, who they're going to go for?

so I don't feel like I have any other option than to continue uploading little videos on the internet so you get it off yeah yeah after your after you handed in your notice you took them to court yeah what did you take them to court what was the what do you call it what was the complaint complaint yeah that you so there was three there was unlawful deduction of wages breach of contract and unfair constructive dismissal okay

and you won all three counts. Yeah. Does that, I mean, it must feel very validating and rewarding in part, but does it feel like it goes any way to making up for what happened? No. I think having that almost like vindication, like it being in black and white, that not only did I not do anything,

but actually I've tried to hold them responsible for their actions, and being successful, you know, that's great. But then I just think about the last five years and how I was and how much I've changed. And some of it's for the better and some of it's really not. And I think I live with like this constant anxiety that just something's going to happen or like someone's going to say something or I don't know because I think during the time that I was suspended,

I can only assume that it was a member of Saff wrote on Tattle Life about the case. And bearing in mind that I had, I'd been told you cannot talk about this to anyone. This is completely confidential, et cetera. And then I get a DM saying, oh, somebody's written something about your job on Tattel Life. And it wasn't just that, oh, she's been suspended for this. It was that I had abused the patient to the point where he'd committed suicide. Oh, my God. So it wasn't even what I'd been accused of.

it was just this complete lie and... I didn't know about Tatul but I thought this when I googled you before speaking to you I personally can't Google myself because it's the worst thing in the world to do It's the first thing that comes up, isn't it?

Well, I mean for you whatever happens now that's your Google search and we're kind of living in unprecedented times there and I imagine you know most people it's not really

hopefully a consideration for people but to have that you know these news stories SEO is so powerful before anyone employs anyone they Google them and you know I mean tattled aside because it's absolutely insane but even these news stories are so big and this is having your story written for you of course that's going to have a huge effect on you but the tattel thing just to go back to it that is horrendous what year did you find out about that that was it was not long before we were actually in court i think it was probably the september of 22 was there a thread about you there always has been since um you know since i started social media there's i don't know at what point it came but at some point it came and they just don't know oh she's a fact she just

So, like, it's all, like, superficial stuff. Like, I don't, like, ever at once. And I just think, I'd rather be fat than this. Yeah. So, like, I don't really take it seriously. And it wasn't until that came on. And I thought, okay, like, what am I going to? I can't even address it because I've been told I can't talk about it.

That's awful. Because that's, yeah, like the superficial crap, like whatever. But your reputation. like that's and as we know a woman's reputation is very fragile yeah and i think as well like i didn't i didn't share any of this during the court process either or even until the point where it was all done and then it was posted online on the um government website so i didn't even share it um it like all tribunals go on the government website and then a news reporter contacted me, said, oh, we've seen your tribunal outcome. We'd like to write a story. Do you want to

comment? And at that point, we'd had the tribunal and I'd had the outcome, but we hadn't had the remedy part of it yet. So I contemplated to say, what do you think I should do with this? He said, don't do anything until it's all completely finished with, which I think is fair enough. And I said, no, I'm not going to make a comment or anything like this. And then the next day, it was everywhere. So I was going to like, okay, I don't know what to do now because I can't really talk about it either. This is just unprecedented. This is like what, sorry, I know I've just, I've literally said this, but I'm so in shock

that you have this one thing that's just completely changes everything. Yeah. And to have it all go into the news. And again, you didn't do anything. Yeah. And you, and all this whole time it's just been proving that you never did anything, which everybody knew you didn't do anywhere years and years ago. Yeah.

To put you through this. And you did win, you were awarded. compensation yeah but you said in an interview subsequently that that wasn't what it was about and i do get the i mean i feel that you are obviously you you were you were owed the unfair you know the disparity in the pay and all the shifts you weren't able to pick up and the career progression and everything else that's five years worth and i and i hope you were awarded for that but it doesn't feel like that was the the motive here i wonder with the reaction and how everybody's been about it since, like you say, being on Tatul, being BBC, I mean, like, this is just mad.

Has that angle or that point been something that you have felt up against with people saying, you just took to court, like, you know, was it worth it for the money? That kind of, you know, whenever there's money involved, people can be quite cruel. I think a lot of people have the, you know, our NHS is really stretched. We've got no money and then she's taking them to court and to this, like, you know, and I think, yes, but I'm, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm, I barely got back what I was owed, really. So it wasn't really anything to do with the money. In fact, I didn't even get back what I paid out on legal fees.

Really? So... Do you mind sharing how much you were awarded? I was awarded $24,000, just over $24,000, and my legal fees were $30. Oh, fuck, I mean, that's an annual salary, presumably, right? That's one year's salary. Yeah. I think they deducted a lot of my claim based on the fact that I was earning from social media,

and the judge thought that. yes, I could earn money alongside my job, but not as much as I was. So they took quite a big chunk of my earnings from what I've done on social media. Did that feel fair? I think it's difficult because I don't think social media as an income is fully understood by everyone yet. And just because I was earning a certain amount because I had this free time doesn't mean that I couldn't have earned that alongside the job as well.

because, I mean, prices for things change and it fluctuates so much. So it just feels very like, well, she's fine. Like it feels very dismissive of the point, which is, it feels like it's capping and ambition, to be honest, which I don't know if they necessarily do to men. It's just completely separate. It's a completely separate thing, isn't it, do your social media? Yeah, like, oh, you've got enough money. Yeah.

In the history of, like, Elon mask taking someone to court over a disparity, they're not going to go, well, you're a billionaire, so you don't need to win. They'll keep letting him win. Donald Trump saying that, you know, everyone's going to, everyone keeps to take these huge court cases are just full of billionaires making more billions. And no one ever says, you've probably got enough billions, actually. That's so unfair.

It's so separate to the, to all of the claims. It's completely separate. And I know I keep laboring this point of, like, accusations like that being taken so seriously. But I'm just surprised because it's a term transference, transference, where a patient develops feelings for their therapist, their caregiver like that has to and especially within a mental health facility that has to be common I'm like but it just I'm just I'm just surprised that it was taken and there's no protocol

for it right thing that strikes me beyond I completely know what you're saying because it's like this must happen because you're spending you know yes you've got shifts and things but I think a lot of people pick up extra shifts and things and when you're the first thing they see when they wake up and maybe the last thing they see before they go to bed for years. Yeah. I can completely see how it happens. That bit doesn't strike me as odd. The fact that he made the accusation or, you know, said it happened is it's had horrible

consequences for you. And I don't know how you feel. I don't want to put words in your mouth. But I don't feel like any of this particularly was his fault if he wasn't of sound mind. It feels to me that all of this. And again, and I know I've said it like. four times and you've said it and we've all said it this isn't NHS bashing because

like we love the NHS it's not that but it does feel really frustrating that because we love the NHS and because we're protective of it because we're very fond of it and very appreciative to it it feels like therefore we can't say you fucked up here or this was a bad thing or this and and I I feel so frustrated on your behalf that it is playing into so many their story plays into so many things and we know you know in the very rare instances where we see for example female teachers take advantage of their power and be and I mean it's not been a relationship and groom and rape young boys the press have a field day with it yeah and it does feel frustrating because like you said this probably does happen now the other way around it does

happen with to men but it's not the same story because you are pretty and you are blonde and you are a social media influencer now and those three things are like daily mail bingo it's like oh my god what a story have we got here but it's your life and it's your career and it was your dreams of doing one thing that have been you know like and this is traumatic this is a crazy thing that's happened to you yeah but it's huge and i think one of the things that got me once it was actually out in the public and um people had associated this story with my instagram account the sheer amount of messages i got from other people who've been through this And bearing mind that I thought that I was like a one in a million case.

That was very much how it was kind of painted was that this is a huge scandal that's never happened before. But I could not believe how many people, I'm talking hundreds, hundreds of people had reached out, said that they felt they were being unfairly during a disciplinary case and that they'd had allegations that were untrue and they were just shunned off and being kept off for months on end. It kind of made me feel a bit like, oh, okay, so I'm not the only one. It annoys me because we need these staff. Like the NHS needs those nurses and I hate to say it, but there is a lot of money being wasted in this area. And I think if we were to kind of look at the bigger picture of, you know,

the NHS is skint, how much money are they spending on cases like mine? because if you think of not just my compensation, but the solicitor fees that they would have had to fork out, the, like, recruiting somebody else, somebody to do my work on top of paying me, kind of. You're talking like 100,000 pounds, probably. Yeah, more. And they were training you up.

Yeah. And, you know, so that's the loss. It's not just the loss of what you were doing. It's the loss of your potential. And now you're not going to work in this industry. And that's happening to however many other people. Yeah. what do you feel should have been I mean obviously so many things done differently so that's a stupid

question what do you feel can change or needs to change so that stuff like this doesn't happen again I think it's just the the process of how disciplinary cases and suspensions are dealt with I think the unfortunately the immediate narrative is like you're shunned away that you know we're going to investigate this you are very much track like a criminal sent home and like a criminal until, you know, they decide otherwise. And I think the lengthy processes of it, you know, people have ended their lives over it. You know, there's cases where nurses have committed suicide because, you know, there was a lengthy disciplinary process and they didn't think they were going to get at the end of it the way that, you know, they should have

or whatever. And I just think we need to look at how that's being dealt with. And unfortunately, that there are policies in place, but they're just not being followed. So I think there needs to be a certain level of accountability when it comes to, you know, looking at what's happened and, you know, even just admitting that they were wrong. Because I think that's half a problem with the trust that I worked for is that they never admitted that they were wrong. Even in the BBC article, they were disappointed with the outcome and would look at what lessons would be learned. But if that's the case, then why is there still happening to people? Why are nurses constantly going home and being left at home for months, if not yet.

And you're so right, that admission of like, okay, we didn't handle this, right? That would have gone such a long way, not for you, a huge way, I imagine. Yeah, because if anything, it kind of feels like they still think, or maybe she's done a bit, we just couldn't prove it. Yeah. We're going to let you go, but before we do, I just have one thing, one final thing to ask. And that's, you have now subsequently shared this on social media, which I think is really valuable and powerful because for five years you were silenced and you couldn't talk about it.

and now you're doing stuff like this and you talked about it online. And from what I saw the support, you've had really good support online. Have you taken comfort in that? Do you feel like you've come away to a happy ending in any regard? Yeah, in some aspects. Yeah, I think, you know, it's a very nerve-wracking thing when something like that goes public and it wasn't by my doing and you're then open to the court of public opinion. And fortunately for me, everyone just flooded with support and related,

and I think that has really helped because I just think I did the right thing in the end. So, yeah. Good. Thank you so much, Jess, for coming here, sharing your story. And we're excited to see where your Instagram account takes you and your content. And everyone can go follow you at The Slice of Jess. Yeah, that's right. And we will put the link to follow you in show notes.

Thank you very much. Thank you. Should I delete that as part of the Acast creator? network. My name is Ryan. This is my best friend, Tony, and together we do the Tony and Ryan podcast, and people right across Canada, they listen to our show. Now, Stacey and Mali, you guys are sisters and pretty competitive.

Can you tell us who listens more? Oh, it's definitely me. No. We will text each other through the day saying, hey, have you listened to the pod yet? So it's something that even we talk about as sisters, what was talked to? about it on the pod. So when you're finished listening to this legendary podcast, check out us, Tony and Ryan.