Should I Delete That? - Pink Flags with LalalaLetMeExplain

Episode Date: February 14, 2022

Happy Valentine's Day! Dating Educator @LalalaLetMeExplain joins the girls this week to share some priceless pearls of wisdom. She explains how to spot the pink and red flags in relationships, and why women should never settle for second best. Later, Is It Just Me? gets scatological as Em and Alex learn a little too much about the term “cup-caking”.Contacts:GIVE US A SHOUT - Text 'Shout' to 85258THE SAMARITANS - Call 116 123Show timestamps:Good, Bad & Awkward - 00:05:36Interview with LalalaLetMeExplain - 00:21:28Is It Just Me? - 01:23:07Follow us on Instagram @shouldideletethatEmail us at [e-mail] by Butternut Box - visit www.butternutbox.com/alexandem for 50% off your first two boxesProduced & edited by Daisy GrantMusic by Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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You can get 50% off your first two boxes with code Alex and M. That's code Alex and M. Enjoy. Oh my God, why did I post that? I don't know what to do. Should I delete that? Yeah, you should definitely delete that. Hello, COVID Connie.

Hello, fellow human. How are you? Good. This is so sad. The last time that I saw another human being, it was you this time last week. I can't believe that. That's so, I can't believe it's been a week and you have literally been locked in your bedroom. In one room.

And I've had a shocker of the morning because I was just lying here, mine in my own beeswax. you know, day seven of COVID, feeling like shit. And this fucking spider just crawled across my duvet towards my face. And I was like, you know what? Don't worry, buddy. This is your bed now. So I had to give my bed away. So I very nearly was facing three days on the carpet, to be honest.

Oh, the audacity of that spider. I know. Does he not know what I've been through? You know what I mean? That under normal circumstances, it's fine. We'll fight for it. That's fine. But not today, buddy.

You've got no idea. Do you know what? Totally off topic. Well, not off topic, but a bit of a tangent. I thought, so whenever we have a spider inside, like Dave doesn't mind them. So he gets them, picks them up and puts them outside. Because obviously, like, I don't love them, but I would never kill one. But I found out that actually when you do that, it kills house spiders if you put them outside anyway. Don't. Don't. Don't. Why are you talking this? I know. I don't. I'm so sorry. I know. I didn't know that. I didn't know that. No. I think that's just a successful marketing campaign on behalf of spiders. I think they say. I think they say. I know. I think they say. I don't. I think they say. I think they. I think they say. I think they. I think they. sat in a meeting. Yeah, I do. I think they sat in a meeting and said, guys, we're going to rebrand. We're going to call ourselves house spiders and we're going to tell them that we can't live outside and then they'll feel bad and then they'll keep us in the warm. That's so cute. I don't believe that for a minute. What do you mean house spiders? What's it like the first species? If you want a house spider, build your own house. You know what

I mean? So this is because I put something on Instagram because there was like a meme about like squashing spiders and I was like, no, just put them outside. And then loads of people replied and was like, that's just as cruel because you're still killing them. So then I was like, oh. And I actually, I'm not even scared of spiders. And that's the fun thing. Normally, because my mom is like properly terrified of them.

Like, like the woman is absolute nails until it comes to spiders and she just crumbles. So I've always dealt with her spiders and that's fine. You know, like it's an area, in fact, that I excel in. But there was something about today. I think it's because I feel so vulnerable. You brought you off God. And this bed and I have, yay,

We've created such a bomb together over the last seven days. You know, it's really moulded itself to my little ass. And then, you know, I just felt it threatened. I felt with that spider's arrival, everything that I've spent so long building was threatened. So I had to fight. I had to fight. And I won. It sounds like you felt to be discombobulated.

You just want to use that word. Again, yeah, I'm just loving it now. I was just trying to use it as much as possible. So M's got COVID. Audio might not be as good this week because we're not together. We're doing this over Zoom, obviously, because I don't want to catch um's COVID. So hopefully the audio is not too. I tried really hard to give it to you last week. Yeah, I can't believe. You were resistant. I know, I know. I so, I thought you and Daisy

would toast, I'm going to be honest, because we did sit in that room for a good like eight hours. And I was hot and stuff. And I, there was no windows and I wasn't that well. So on Thursday morning, I took a COVID test and it was negative. And I didn't feel great, but it was negative. And obviously the rules are like you're fine so and I wasn't ill ill I just like I was like oh god I think I'm a bit run down and then I did get progressively worse but then by the end of the day I was so but we were both so tired so I was like well you know maybe our souls just hurt because we've been talking for eight hours and then I came home and truthfully I don't really remember coming home and then yeah I got into bed and then at three in the morning woke up and

was like oh god you were deteriorate while we had we went for a drink after the recording And you were, like, deteriorating fast. I was like, wow, she's really tired. Yeah, I think I look more like a body than a person. Daisy just said. She was like, you were a bit horizontal. And that actually has... Oh, my God.

You poor thing. Yeah, I wasn't thriving. Anyway, so, yeah, I've got COVID now. But, and I keep testing positive, which is annoying, because I want... It's like, we're best mates birthday today. So I was optimistic I was going to get out. Because also...

Sorry, I was talking about me loads. But I'm supposed to be having my operation on Tuesday. We're supposed to have my operation Tuesday just gone. And that was my first thought. when I got COVID was obviously I can't have the operation. And then they say, this is my bad, by the way. I'm just, this is my bad. So we're just, we're just doing my bad, sorry.

The good, the bad, and the awkward. But then, yeah, obviously COVID means that I can't have my operation. And as it turns out, I didn't know this. But generally speaking, they don't put you under general anaesthetic for seven weeks after you've tested positive for COVID. And I literally was like, well, fuck, I can't wait seven weeks. I actually got really upset on Friday because if you don't know me or follow me, last February, 2021, I have my jaw broken into three places and reset because of a problem with my jaw,

obviously, and my airway and stuff. And not long afterwards, I felt a crack in my face. And since then, I've basically had pretty consistent pain in my face. And it turns out that one of the screws, or two of the screws have been rejected by my body. So that's why I've had this pain for literally months. and I've been holding out for first of all the diagnosis and then second of all the procedure to have them removed and it was for February the 8th. I've had so much hope on that date. Like every bit of pain that I've been in for the last few weeks and months

I've been like, it's okay, I've got this date, I've got this date, I've got this date, I've got this date, and then I got fucking COVID and the date was taken away. And I honestly was, I can't tell you, and I was so, I felt so sick. Like I was actually, everyone said that COVID was pretty easy these days. They lied. Then obviously I lost the operation, but the, their surgeon's team

have been so amazing because I literally, I was hysterical as I just, like seven weeks is insane but they've now changed everything for me so I can have the procedure next Tuesday so the day after this comes out

and I'm going to have it under sedation rather than general so it's still safe so whatever happened I am going to get out of this room on Sunday because that's my day 10 I'm going out on Monday for the whole fucking day. I'm going to have the best day of my life. And then on Tuesday, I'm having this

operation and I'll get straight back into this bed again. Oh, I do know, I felt so sorry for you. Because, I mean, when you first said you had COVID, I was like, oh, fuck. And then it dawned on me. That's what it meant about your operation. Because you are in a lot of pain, aren't you? And I think you're, like, you're pretty good about not moaning about it. I would not be that good. And, you know, you had, yeah, you had your hopes pinned on this operation. And it was just, yeah, it It was, I felt very, very sorry for you, but thank God. It's, they've been able to move the operation and that you're, you know, you're getting it done, thank God. Yeah, thank God.

It was, yeah, honestly, I'm not a massive one for feeling really sorry for myself. But when I tell you Friday, it was a, it was a really bad day. But anyway, we've come through that now and, you know, and I'm actually, arguably, I'm thriving in here. I've got big plans for March. I bet you do So I'm sorry I just jumped straight in with my bad But it was the elephant in the room

I am the elephant in the room Do you want to just do your Should we just start negatively Do you want to give me your bad of the week? Let's start negatively, yeah Yeah I mean I like We'll do good selves We'll bring the move back up

Like I'm not going to go too much into it But like I've not had the best week work wise A few things sort of came out All at once And while like nothing in isolation was catastrophic it was just like it was more to be honest my reaction to everything that kind of ruined my week and you know when it's just a build-up and everything kind of comes at once so which is annoying and what's annoying is because it's I know that it's my reaction to all this stuff

do you know what I mean like it's not anything that like I said it's nothing like catastrophic but it's my reaction to it that's made me have a bad week you know I'm going back to Jacqueline you know it's not what happens it's how you react to it um So I'm working on it. I'm working on it. But yeah, that was my personal bad. But then I also wanted to mention something that like from yesterday that made me feel really sad and you'll have seen it too. It's that 17-year-old girl called Imogen Tothill. I think that's how you say her name, who was missing and then her body was found yesterday and it's just really sad. And I think at the time that we're recording this, I think the reasons for her death

haven't been confirmed, but apparently it's not believed to be suspicious. And it's really sad and it's like, it's hard to bring things up like this. It's not hard. But I guess what's difficult is, you know, we want to be lighthearted and fun, but we also want to talk about this stuff, stuff like this because it's important to us. And we want to strike that balance between, you know, making someone's Mondays like really fun, like, or just a little bit more fun. And then also using our platforms and this platform to talk about things that are important to us and things that really, really matter. So I just wanted to mention it. Yeah, I agree, Alex, and we're going to put the number for the Samaritans into the show notes today and the number

for give us a shout as well, who are a service that will reply to your text no matter what time of day you message them just in case anybody is in need of support at the moment. Okay, so it's, it's It's not easy at all to transition from bad like that into good. So we're just sending everyone a big hug. And M, what is your good from this week? Well, I had to look around. No, actually, I tell you what, it's not, it isn't good. And actually, I've, the urge to block everybody that sent me a DM saying,

oh, I'm so jealous. You've had all this, like, a lot of moms with DM me being like, I'm so jealous. Look at you having all this time to yourself. I'm like, oh, fuck a dick. But a couple of things that have been alright, namely my most important one is we've rebooted the hags this week, the havergos. I mean, I've talked about the hags on the podcast before, but it's a platform that I run, literally stands for the havergoes. And it's about making sporting events, or sport in general, actually, less intimidating for people.

And it's about having a go and not caring how you do, not caring about coming last, not caring about being slow or how you look or any of that shit. and anyway, I'm obsessed with the hags but obviously since my face has been so bad I just haven't been able to prioritise it in the way that I would like because I haven't been exercising myself and I've been very busy with the rest of my work and blah blah blah blah blah

anyway I have used this time sat on my ass and amazing Amy who is running the podcast Instagram has come on board to help me do the hags Instagram and we made an emotional video yesterday and it completely reignited all my excitement and I'm planning some really cool stuff for this year and that's been really good

because I wouldn't have had the time like I just, it's not that it's not a priority it's just you know how things go every day it's really hard to like add more in but I've had the time so we've been able to put a lot of intention into the hags which is really cool and also I've done three samurai Sudoku's so I mean like it's not all bad let's be honest

I'm living a great life over here that's pretty cool that's pretty cool thank you What's your good this week, Your Honor? My good, just like a small thing, as I was going to sleep last night, and I was like thinking, like, what's my good? I need to, like, think of a good. And then I saw the news about that girl that her body had been found. And I just, you know when you go to sleep with anxiety?

Do you know what I mean? And you haven't, like, properly, like, gone, like, sort of processed it. But you go to sleep anyway. And so I knew I was going to have a shit night's sleep And I did like it just upset me And I woke up really early But well Betty sleeps in our bed Which a lot of people find gross

But I don't like I love it It's one of my favourite things In the world Fuck those people! First week's in my bed I love it It's one of the most precious And special things in the world She loves it, we love it

It's just wonderful And so I woke up really early And I just felt a bit shit And she just It's like she knew And she came and she just lay her head on my chest and just like stared at me

but like in the sweetest way and I lay there, we lay there like that for about an hour until I think she got too hot and I was just stroking her and I was like, this is so special it like brought here to my eye I know that sounds really sad but it was just like such a beautiful moment of

I don't just dogs are just the best. I mean animals are just the best like it's like a connection like no one. I know I sound so wanky, but I really felt it. Oh, well, that's lovely. Boo has been like fucking, she's been like one of those, like, lions at Trafalgar Square, like just lying next to the bed.

Like, she won't leave me. Protecting you at all costs. Although it's a bit sinister, to be honest, because she just lies either on the floor next to me or on the bed next to me and just barks at thin air. I'm like, boo, you stop fucking with me. Like, it's not funny. Like, there's nothing there. Stop it.

But she's really getting in my head. No, I don't know. I don't know. Either she can see something or she's just doing it to cut with me, but either way. I love her. Love Biller. We've all got to have our kick. Yeah, what is your awkward?

Hit me. I mean. Okay. So obviously, I haven't been with anybody else to be particularly awkward. You're not a chance to embarrass yourself this week. No, no, not publicly. I just, what I've done is contributed to the spreading of more misinformation about tampons to a naive man so if everything wasn't terrible enough on Friday

which it was terrible enough I didn't need this but my fucking uterus lining was like woohoo we're on the way so I shouted it and I asked Alex downstairs I was like can you bring me up a box of tampons now in my head I thought we had two boxes of tampons in like downstairs I thought we had some regular ones and some super ones So he bought up the regular ones and unfortunately for me just wasn't cutting them off did you know what I mean

So he brought them up and then about two hours later I said babe can you bring me up the other box of tampons please and he was like oh I've already bought you a box and I was like yeah but I'm having a really heavy period

and then he passed me the other box and they were also regular which I think means that he thinks that I got through 30 tampons in a morning Oh, Alex, that's so sweet.

That's really sweet. He never said it. That hasn't been confirmed, but I think that must have been his own thought process because how else why else does he think I need 30 more tampons? It's like a tampon a minute. Jesus, you'd be in and out of the bathroom.

Like, you would leave. Like a Formula One pit stop. We're just machine gunning them up there. Yeah, so that's just my sort of general, general awkwardness. What about yours? So mine is just something very, very, very stupid that I did. I booked flights. My friend's getting married in Rhodes in May, which I'm really excited about.

Same wedding month as you, but not the same weekend, don't worry. I was going to say, right, is that how you're telling me? Oh, yeah, yeah, by the way, I can't come. She's one of my best friends, and I can't wait, and it's cool, and I booked off flights to go, and then sent the confirmation to Dave, and he just happened, this is like, this is like a week's ago now, he just happened to look at the confirmation, I think he was looking for time, for dates, and he was like, Al, you've, I'm David Light on the tickets.

And I was like, oh my God, that's my dad. name. So I've put down, as passenger names, like Alexander Light and David Light. So I've put my dad's name down and it's rubbish because I did it through e-dreams and like PSA to anyone who is booking flights, don't do it through one of those like, I don't know what you call them like third party providers. Like do it direct through the airlines because I cannot get in touch with e-dreams for love nor money. I have tried so hard. I can't get in touch with them. So I'm either, Dave's changing his name or I'm going to the wedding with my dad. I don't know, but...

I think you're going to the wedding with your dad. I think I'm going to the wedding with my dad. Ridiculous. So yeah, use this, like learn from my mistakes. Don't go through those third party things. They look tempting because it's like, oh, they'll do it all for you. And you don't have to go through two websites. And they say it's a bit cheaper.

But I don't think it is. And then you're fucked if you need to change anything. So, yeah, that was my rant. Most people, most people, like, it's, not your fault definitely their fault we can give them all the blame if you'd like and if if that's the space that we're in then then i'm cool with that but i do feel like there might have been some human error here a hundred percent i don't know how that got past me i really really don't i do you you called your dad like you oh god i'm doing it we you call you do call dave dad and

and i think this is just the this is the natural next step because my dad's name obviously is David. I think you and your dad are going to have a great time in roads, honestly. Do you think? Do you think? Yeah, I think it's a really special time for you both. And I'm personally really excited to see what he does as an Instagram father. I need to let him know so he can say to date. So yeah, that was my awkward, me just being stupid. Don't do, don't be me. Be less like me. And now I'm excited because it's Valentine's Day. Happy Valentine's Day, Alex. And we have the best Valentine's Day guest. The best. we have got the extraordinary la la la let me explain here i'm so excited i have followed la la for

years like genuinely i just think she is the such a voice of reason and logic and brilliant on instagram and she continuously shines a light and has the conversations that i genuinely i've learned so much from her i think she's so articulate i think she's so sensible so brilliant, and she released a book, and it came out this week, and it's called Block Delete Move On, and it's literally the best dating book ever. It's not about finding the one in the ridiculously corny and pathetic sense that every single dating book marketed towards women is about, but it's about making sure you don't find the wrong one, and it's such an important shift in my mind in the way that we speak about dating. And I've even found this

interview and her book to be really helpful for me as someone who's literally never dated and who has been in a relationship for a decade. So there is something in this episode for everybody, even if you are, there'll probably be people listening to this, like fucking two months into dating the man that they are absolutely convinced as the love of their life. And then they're going to listen to three cynical old women sitting here going, oh well, fuck this and fuck that. And they're going to go, oh great, well, happy Valentine's date, guys. Thanks so much. But here we are. It's a good episode.

I'm really proud of it. I'm really excited by it. Yeah, it's a really, really good interview. She was brilliant. But yeah, I just, I feel like it's just, it's stuff that everyone should know. And I wish we were taught in schools, but we can learn it now.

So that's really cool. Oogie, okay. Well, without further ado, please enjoy this episode with La La La La La, let me explain. Lala, welcome to our podcast. Thank you so much for being here. And congratulations.

Thank you. Did your books just come out? It has. It has. We are pre-recording. It will have. And happy Valentine's Day. Thanks, it's Valentine's Day.

Yeah. I actually saw on your stories this morning that you're doing a Galentine's Day this year. I do it every year on Valentine's night. I do an Insta Live for the single people. Or the married people who are just fucked off with their partners, you know. Or you just don't be going to share about Valentine's. Yeah. Your honeymoon is well and truly over.

You're like. I'll be there. So far. And, yeah, your amazing books come out, and that's so, well, this is so annoying for you because you've got to talk, pretend. It's so, yeah, but talk in the future. Yeah, let's manifest it. It's gone really well.

It's on the Sunday Times best seller list. Number one, it's sold four million copies in its first day. Unbelievable. Unreal. Yeah, it's so brilliant. We're really proud. The TV adaptions coming out. Yeah, Netflix and bought it.

Well, this is like what's so fun and stuff because if you don't follow Lala, which is just impossible because everybody should. does but you're anonymous you do all of your instagramming yeah and you're writing anonymously yeah have you done it how do you do that no so i'm not like super anonymous like oh no one can see me ever i i host events i like do my own parties and stuff and i come on podcasts and you know like if i was to see somebody reading my book on a train or something i'd probably be like hi hi i wrote that but um i'm just anonymous in the sense that i just don't really want people to know who i really am and When I say really am, I'm not anyone different to who I am,

but you know, who I really am in the sense that then you could like find my address or find where I live. Or address and where you live is the same thing, isn't it? There's many different reasons why I'm anonymous. And I also just don't think there's any, how my work or account would benefit from having me on the squares. I just don't think it would in any way. Well, that's an amazing thing about your account, I think, is I learned so much from you,

probably because I don't get distracted by any preconceptions I have about you as a person. I think like, you know, when somebody else is delivering a really important message, they feel, oh, God, she's a bit annoying, this is a bit that, you know, I really don't like the way she speaks. And it's like it instantly and all of your internalised shit, whether it be misogyny or whatever, like gets in the way of you taking a point. But with you, it's like, it's old school in a way. Like you just, there's the words and you read them and you learn.

And that's really cool, which I know. And I can be who you want me to be, you know. And so it's like, I think it really. does work like exactly as you say in terms of people learning and taking in the information because I'm the same as you I get biased around things you know I follow certain sex educators or whatever and if I see them and I think you're probably not shagging the same people as me or like you're probably not you know we look worlds apart and so I can't relate and that's probably a barrier that I need to sort out but I feel a bit like well we're totally different and maybe your advice

doesn't is not going to apply to me because you don't understand the world that I'm in it you You know what I mean? Yeah, I think it's really cool. I don't know. I really admire it. So you are a dating educator. Yeah. Can you explain to us what that is and also like how did it come about?

I want to know, like I want to know exactly how. It's totally made up. You came to be where you are right now. I don't know what a dating educator is. I just literally made it up as a kind of all-encompassing term. Okay. Because actually I'm a social worker. That's what I am.

Right. That's my history. Do you still work in social? Do you still practice? Not statutory. But I would say that what I do is still social work in one way. I'm a qualified practice teacher and I've done some training and stuff in social work anyway. So I feel like I'm just passing kind of social work education and training onto the masses.

But also before that, I was a sexual health and relationships educator for the NHS. So I guess I've kind of combined the two things. Because in terms of actual dating, like how can you do well on Tinder? that, how can you spot like a shit person? How can you get over ghosting? A lot of that stuff is really from my own experiences that I've learned that. So in terms of being a dating expert,

I'm a dating expert because I've been on so many fucking shit dates. But also I think I can call myself an expert now because I've been doing this for so long on Instagram that I'm hearing so many different stories. I'm working with so many different people. I still do one-to-ones. So really, you know, as a social worker, you are very highly trained in relationships,

interpersonal relationships, helping people to get over trauma and not pass it onto the next generation and all of that. So that's really what I'm good at. But yeah, so I'm never promised that I'm going to be able to find anyone love. I'm not going to be able to teach you how to be like the greatest at dating that you could be. But I'll be able to teach you how to spot red flags, how to react to them,

how to probably, hopefully not end up in an abusive relationship. Love that. Women for like ever have been sold. like these dating books and this dating like and we're going to help you find the one and we're going to get you married and then you're going to live happily ever after and this is you know it's like it's just

you're sold a fairy tale right and it's bullocks and if he rubs his left ear then he fancies you and all this shit whatever and it's just so whimsical and silly anyway but it feels like with your book it's a whole new idea of dating because it's like it's not

you need to go and find the one it's you need to find the right one like there'll be plenty don't worry about that it's more you need to make sure that when he's the he or she or when they are here it's somebody that deserves you yeah and it's like the first time and i i know nothing about dating i've literally never dated it's so weird i've got so many questions about just dating but it's really cool to hear like even the from externally like the rhetoric around dating changing to be like stop just like throwing yourself at any man and make sure that it's like one that's really

worth it and arm yourself with like knowledge that's actually going to help you not like wear red lipstick because men are attracted to red lips. The sad thing is that you know one of the biggest selling dating books of all time is why men love bitches but it's by a woman and it's it's all about teaching women to be much more aloof to harness their kind of bitch side and and to play a game to become this really disinterested, really kind of nonchalant about everything because the theory is that, you know, if something comes too easily to men, they don't want it.

So you have to pretend to be a massive challenge. You know, if he calls you, don't answer. Even if you're sitting there watching the phone ring, don't mean back for two hours, don't be available for the date that he asked you to go on on the weekend, tell him you're not available to, you know, all of these fucking games. And I think that that's what all dating books seem to teach us

is like, play this game and then you get the guy. And it's like, I don't want to play games because then he's only known me as a fucking clown. Like, what happens then we do fall in love? Yeah. And then I'm like, game over. Now you've got me. You know what I mean? It's like, it's never going to work.

And I think that everything needs to be kind of stripped back and people really need to go into the dating world as like you. Unapologetically, authentically you. And if that puts off 200 people, then that's because, you know, not everybody in the world. going to be for us you know you were really lucky that you met Alex yeah and I don't know how long you've been with Dave but four years yeah right so you probably did a bit of dating before a little bit I was with my ex for 10 years and then I met Dave really shortly afterwards I only went on like a few dates you know it's the way I see it's just really like pot luck because there are billions of people out there and out of those billions far less than a million would

actually, or probably far less than 100,000 would actually be a really good connection. Like a really good friendship, people, somebody who actually really gets you. And I think what we often do is kind of like jump into relationships with everybody that we date rather than going, you're like, there's 20 other thousand people that I could be dating

and probably are a better match. Like let me not jump into every relationship. Yeah. Because I feel that I've learned so much. My relationship with Alex is literally luck on every level. Like we love each other which is very lucky

but we met at Glastonbury where there are 200,000 people he lives on the other side of the Irish sea he was two years old there was no way I was ever going to meet him no way like never

and then I did then he slugged my friend then I got over it and then you know what I think and then we got together like two years later luck luck luck luck all the time

but since then we have changed and become a million different people and I've learned so much even from literally from following you I've learned so much self-respect still and still to appreciate myself within a relationship

and my time within a relationship and I think if I ended up now in a scenario where I went dating it would be an entirely different situation because I'd have gone into it before just like love me like to every man that I've met I'll do it all, I'll wear the red lipstick

I'll be thick, I'll be a bitch I'll be whatever you need me to be and now I'd be like no I'm going to be picky which is cool right you need picky women To be picky, you have to be in a place of really happily being single. Yeah, maybe I wouldn't. If you're unhappy being single, then it becomes much harder to be discerning about who, you know, because it becomes this desperate thing to just want to be loved.

Doesn't matter who loves me. And that's the problem is that often, and I don't even think just women do this, but often it's like, do you actually like this person or are they the only one giving you attention right now? Yeah. Are they the only one returning your calls? Like, do you actually like him or is it just because he's willing to meet up with you on Saturday, you know? But I think then if you're really content being single, then it becomes a complete different headspace where it's like, oh, no, like, I'm really fucking happy. So you have to, and it's such a cliche, it's that old thing.

What is that quote that they say, oh, I'm happy being single and you'd have to be amazing to change that? Yeah, yeah. That's not a very good quote, is it? No. I'd rather be alone than lonely with you. But that's, you know, and that's what I'm hoping with the book is that for people who are in that, because I'm 40 now and a lot of my friends

who haven't had children are kind of late 30s and are doing a lot of dating out of like, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, I've got to get pregnant, ASAP. I've got to find someone. But what I really want the book to do is go, okay, that's fine. But also, can we just try and focus on like really being happy with your own self and your own company and then try to find someone.

Do you think that is possible? And this is like the most cynical, depressing question ever. But women do have a biological, like, it's so unfair. But men do too. I don't know why they don't talk about this. Really? What, like the clock ticking and, yeah. Like, you know, from the age of 35, their sperm declines.

It's not just us. It's a total myth that it's just us. So it's one of those fucking narratives, isn't it, that's just on, oh, women, but men have got all the time in the world. No, you haven't, bro. Like, your fertility declines at the same time and the same rate as ours. But, like, for your friends, then,

that are in their late 30s, like, and obviously there is this, there is this time pressure, and they just want to find someone, like they want to date, like, when you're speaking to them, just as friends, like, what is your advice to them? Like, how do you help coach them through that?

Because obviously, like, it's going to be a lot easier if they really want children, so they want to find someone, and have children, I mean, how do you, you know... I think people need to know, coach them through that. I think people need to first of all think about, do you want children, or do you literally, you are that type of person who's like,

I fucking love kids. Like if there's a kid in the room, if there's a kid on the airplane, I want to go and sit next to them and stop, I'm going to hang out with that kid all fucking day. I love kids. I think they're the most amazing things in the world. And my absolute dream in life is to be a mother,

regardless of anything else then that's something that's something that you need to look at because that's the really the only reason that you should be having children because this whole thing about like I want someone to look after me when I'm older I want someone to carry on my name like fuck you

you're bringing a human into the world for that like are you all right like this world isn't even that great like you know like sometimes I think oh fuck you mama dad like you didn't even ask me first before like having me And now look at the mess of the consent.

All these fucking bills. I think you're asked to be here. Oh my God. I've never looked at it like that and my whole world's just changed. I have. I always think that. I always think that you just, no one asks to be poor. No, exactly.

And then they just are. And then you're like, you know, that like, well, thanks for all the mental illness. Yeah, exactly. You did this to me. That's so good. But I so I think it's really important to actually figure out. Like, do I genuinely really love to.

and really want them no matter what. Or do I just want children, like, in the context of a family unit? Would I be okay with not having children if I never had the family, like the partner and whatever else? Or, you know, am I only having children because of the... Think about why, like, is it because society thinks I have to because of my age, like, am I doing it because everybody thinks, or do I even...

Because some of my friends, I think they just kind of want children because that's what's expected of them, And because you haven't completed life, I'm putting this in quite, you know, air quotes. I think some people just have children for the sake of having children because that's what you do. That's the next step. And that's why we've got so many fucked up humans out here. So if I'm talking to people about being single in their late 30s, it really is about thinking about actually why do you want children. And if it is that thing of I want them at any cost because I just fucking love kids and I want to devote the rest of my next part of my life to raising them, then there's many different options.

There's many, you know, you can freeze your eggs. A lot of these things are very expensive and people will be listening like, it's not that easy. But, you know, there are ways of doing it. There's sperm donors. There's IVF. There's shagging your best male friend who's also in the same position

and you've decided you're going to do this together. You know, there's ways. There's also dating apps that you can meet people. Yeah. I think it's the pragmatism is often probably not idealised because we've grown up being sold as women a fairy tale. and you have to have this and you have to basically create

the nuclear family, right? And you're like, mom and dad, then you're going to have two little kids. And it's like, I guess maybe when you're reaching 40 and you're having to think practically about these options, there are options, but in order to consider those, you do have to, like, give up maybe a bit of the fairy tale

and like that's maybe like quite a difficult thing to do, you know, because it's like, well, my life, you know, you can still have a brilliant life, but maybe it feels like you're giving up what you thought it would look like. And that's probably okay, but. It's one of those things, isn't it? But I think the main thing that will always be true,

regardless of what stage in your life, you're at, is that having a child within the wrong relationship with somebody who actually proves to be dangerous or bad for you or whatever is so, so much worse than just never having children. Like there is, you know, and it is a big thing to get your head around. If children have been how you've envisaged your future,

then getting to stage where, It's like, actually, maybe I'm going to accept that this isn't happening. It can feel like grief and bereavement. It's massive, and I don't ever want to undermine that. But it's also grief and bereavement to realize that you've had children with somebody who is going to never let you leave. Somebody who is financially abusing you, somebody who is stalking you because you've left them and you, you know. This is something that I really want to talk to you about. And I think you strike the most phenomenal balance online and with your book because you,

acknowledge, and I guess you've had to with your social work, the prevalence of abuse within relationships. And it's just coconuts. Like, it's huge. And it's such a big thing that you talk about and you have to protect so many women. And that's just, it must just be the biggest responsibility for you. Yeah. It just feels like, it doesn't feel like responsibility. I know, I know that I'm quite good at explaining things in a way that makes sense. to people. So I think you can read lots about domestic abuse and watch loads of things and sometimes still not have that penny drop of like, oh, fuck.

Actually, maybe the relationship I'm in might be a bit abusive or whatever. I think I've got a skill of being able to explain things, which is why my name's la la la. Let me explain. But it doesn't feel like a responsibility. It just feels like I'm here and I'm able to voice what I know is happening to a lot of people. I mean, domestic abuse is not just exclusively for heterosexual women, but violence, sexual violence, murdering relationships, again, it's not exclusively,

but it's far more likely to happen in heterosexual relationships. But things like control, manipulation, like coercive control and emotional abuse are quite, you know, a lot of men experience that with female partners too. Yeah, it does just feel, but that doesn't, I mean, that doesn't feel like dating, but that's such a huge part of what you, talk about and that's so that's so much to put yourself out there in that capacity and talk

always about or so so eloquently about such terrifying issues so yeah I just think that's it doesn't feel like I think I'm just so conditioned to it because I've been doing it for like 22 years or something you know what I mean so it's like I was going to ask how like is it heavy I mean I imagine your DMs are just full of trauma yeah pain and that must be really like heavy low to bear they're also full of really great stuff you know and i think that a i'm i'm so used to it this is this you know as a social worker is 10 times worse is a social worker it's not just a dm that you can choose to answer or not it's a case in front of you with a baby with a fractured fema or and you know cuts or whatever uh and then you

actually have to do something about you know you actually have a proper responsibility and it's really that child's life is in your hands um so i think i'm you know it's a different it's a it's a it's a different thing in my dms but it's it's nothing compared to what i did for many years for longer a lot longer than i've done this i'm trained i'm used to it and it's not that i'm desensitized to trauma but I'm like okay cool something still make me go oh shit like but I know how to deal with that yeah but I I was just thinking like when you do go on dates or like meet new men you're straight right yeah so when you meet men do you I mean you've been exposed to some of the most like horrendous stuff like basically you're you are exposed to like male violence and abuse by men

So does this all not just weigh heavy on you when you go to meet someone and you're not like clouded by everything that you know and you've been exposed to? Like I'm just imagining it all just feeling like I can't trust anyone like or do you not feel like that at all? No, are you going with an open mind? Yeah, I don't feel jaded or cynical. I'm very realistic about the fact that actually, I mean, whatever gender you are and whatever gender you date, there's lots of problems with dating. I'm not saying it's easy for anyone.

But there is specific issues for women who date men and that's why I've written my book kind of geared towards those people. So I think you have to be realistic that there are issues or potential issues. But I feel very comfortable with the fact that I really know the red flags and I really know the pink flags. Can I ask about the red flags and the pink flags? Could you explain what, Jen, just like a couple of examples with the red flags and the pink flags that you're looking out for?

So a pink flag is something you need to take. note of but you don't need to run immediately a red flag you need to go like you can't fuck about like if you know you're if you're if you're if you're seen a red flag it's an indication that things are really bad do not swim in the sea yeah go but pink flags are things where it can be like hmm that seems a little bit fishy but you wouldn't necessarily run because you don't necessarily know so for example if we're thinking about for example somebody who's married. A red flag would be them having a wedding ring in their Tinder picture, for example, or them actually saying, I'm married, you know what I mean? Fucking run. Some people

don't take that as a red flag. They continue and that's a whole level of conversation. Because they don't speak. They're in the process of a divorce and, yes, that's a horrible time I heard. Separated. A pink flag for somebody who is married would be, so if you meet somebody on an app and they say, I've got no social media. Now, to To me, no social media is always a pink flag. Alex's husband does not have social media? Does he have a LinkedIn? He does.

Well, then he's got something, you know. He's got by by by the secretly married. He'll be arrested for marrying twice, no? Yeah. Yeah, so a pink flag, to me it's a pink flag if they've got no social media. But like Dave, there are some people who genuinely don't have it. So you can't just go, I'm, you know, fuck off, that's a red flag. He's a really good example, actually, of like, weird, but then it's actually.

He's just weird. Yeah. So running away from that would have been the wrong thing to do. But it's a pink flag. And then if I find out that he's got no social media and also he can never spontaneously answer my calls in the evenings or he can never call me in the evenings, which might indicate that he lives with a partner.

So we've got two pink flags there. And then if you start collecting all the pink flags, then you're holding a red flag. So it can be like several pinks can add up to a red. Or several pinks. might just, you know, one or two pinks might just be a coincidence, might be like, keep noting. Are there only like behavioural pinks?

Because I know that, you know, there will be some behavioural reds. Like, I mean, for me, there would be loads. Yeah, for like abuse and things like that or coercive control. If you've been with somebody and everything's been great and they've showed no bad signs and everything's really going well and they seem like a lovely person. And then you post something on Instagram and they're like, oh, there's a lot of cleavage there.

now that's not necessarily a red flag it's a dark pink flag I would say but if that's just a one-off comment and they were actually kind of saying oh there is fucking oh your tics look good you know what I mean if there's that and then the next pink flag might be them like making another comment

like are you really wearing that to go out with your mates then we've got two big pink flags which are definitely amounting to a red Okay, so you're dating someone, right? And we've got two pink flags, okay? But you can't necessarily pinpoint what it is exactly. You don't really know what's going on. What do you do?

Just say this is not for me and I'm off. I think it's on balance, isn't it? It's on balance of like how good is everything else? Like, is this person genuinely fucking lovely, but actually these pink flags are indicators is that we need to sit down and communicate about this. And actually me say right now, I feel a little bit uncomfortable, very uncomfortable with the comments you're making about what I post on Insta

or saying, I can't, you know, suggesting I shouldn't go out with these people or whatever. If you can communicate that and iron that out in a reasonable way without them being defensive, without being gas lit or anything, it may be something that you can move on from, move forward, communicate, discuss, get rid of that. But then if those little pink flags for the same thing keep rearing their ugly heads, then, you know. But none of us do. I think this is the problem is that you don't. And human nature is that when we are hooked on someone and the chemicals are raging and we really like them

and there hasn't been anyone around for ages and the sex is fucking great and things are brilliant and I never want to not see them again, we do overlook red and pink flags. We do. We choose to. And that doesn't mean that we are choosing abuse or that we're responsible for our own fate if things do go wrong but sometimes it can just feel right

and sometimes those flags don't even feel like flags they just feel like hmm you don't even really necessarily categorize them as flags but it's when you're out of it at the other side that you can look back and go oh fuck like those were the red flags do you think there's something to be said for like commenting on your friend's relationships

Because do you think as a friend, if I can see the pink flags or if you, whatever, can I say? Do you think I can say? Or do you think it's right for somebody to say, look, I know he seems great. But I've noticed a couple of things and it's kind of weighing on me. Or is that just not my place to do that. I think that's a really important thing to do. And this is actually something that people asked a lot when we said that you were coming on saying like I see things and I want to do something but I don't know the right thing to do. If you listen to my podcast, if you go to the link in my bio on La La La, La, let me explain

and go to my podcast with Women's Aid, I think it's 54 minutes in. We answer a question about how to support a friend who's in a very seriously abusive relationship. But the advice is always going to kind of be the same, which is, I think it's a really good idea to mention something. But in exactly how you said it in a really good way, actually. you said it in a really gentle kind of like, look, I just want to, I've noticed this and I love you and I want to say this, but that should kind of be it in a way. Like once you've allowed them to know how you feel and like opened the floor to say like I'm here and if you need to talk to me about it, cool.

But I think we all know how we are. Like if anybody had said to you at any point in your relationships, well, have you had any bad relationships previously you've just literally had the most greatest yeah i've had a really lovely time i think for me i have never been in a bad relationship or situation that anybody could have told me anything about and even if i knew deep down actually this ain't right as soon as anybody actually said to me this ain't right i'd want to defend yeah yeah i would get my back up and think like you don't know you're in it you know so i think you have to remember that you know you have to just go gently and you have to offer a space in your friendship where your friend knows that she can talk

to you but it should never become a thing where you're like hammering on for them to try to leave this abusive relationship because then you become controlling you'll know that yeah that's really good advice actually that's like it's like the perfect balance isn't it because you can't engineer someone else's life like you just can't you have to let them like choose their own path and at the end of the day they're going to do what they want to do do you know what I I mean, if they're, like you say, you're blinded by love in the first, when you first, like, fall in love with someone, it's, you know, they're unlikely to, you know, to act on other people saying,

I see a red flag or whatever, but you can at least plant the seed, right? Yeah. And I think that's important to at least open up their eyes to like, oh, hang on. I mean, even if they don't say, oh, hang on at first, like something is planted and something is there and they at least are aware. And if you think it's real serious abuse, then, you know, let them know about services, let them know about chat lines on women's aid, refuge, national domestic violence helpline, let them know about resources that are available. You could even send them a podcast of mine, not even saying like, I think you're in an abusive relationship, listen to this. It could just be, oh, have you heard that if you listened to this before, you know?

But, yeah, just be there. That's a good idea, actually. Send them some resources. Yeah. Like one of your podcasts or one of your Instagram posts that like detail stuff and it's like a nice softly softly you know gentle approach to sort of yeah

Speaking of resources that was one of the questions that I'm going to start using some of our listener questions because I feel like our questions could go on forever but also they'll have better ones What resources do you think there are for Or would you recommend for I just had a message from a parent For their young daughter

They want to ensure that they're getting the right Like messaging from the world I mean she just needs to buy the door on my book She does Oh yeah That's literally it It's a book called

Block to leave his arm But that's a book Came out last Thursday You'll love it But there is actually Literally a list of resources At the back of bed There's a list of books

There's a list of Yeah And actually I think it's I wish I'd read my book When I was 18 I wish I'd read your book I mean I don't think anything Would have changed

Yeah But not for my own dating It's for my own thinking about everything And learning about Like even in your book You write about attachment types And I don't think

any of us go into relationships with any self-awareness, really. I don't think we as a generation, and we're all the different ages, actually, but I don't think women historically have been conditioned to ask for their best, do you know, know that they deserve the best. And, you know, everything's so weird the way we talk about relationships with men

and prioritise relationships with men. And, you know, again, I wouldn't have done anything differently, but I'd have thought differently, and I'd have wanted differently for my friends. And I just would have prioritised differently, and I think it's really interesting. Like, particularly at school, fucking. Hell, if I could have known, like, I'd have had more fun on my own.

I just for the whole time just, like, wanting boys to like me. And it's like, oh, I know. God have just been doing so much better shit. It's so annoying. It's such a waste of time. It's such a waste of time and a bloody energy. But your popularity with boys dictated how popular you were with girls. Nuts.

You know? Do you think that's coming to adulthood? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think at school you're just in this, like, community, aren't you? I think when you kind of breathe, I think if you start. in the sort of same place where you lived and you're kind of maybe in a smaller place

I think in London you can get lost you know you can leave college and you can go after uni and then you can come back and nobody knows you and none of the same people are still here so you're less in that kind of you can just be you

but I think there's for some people yeah I think status very much rests on whether you are who you're with who wants you yeah god Jesus I want me that's all about

that all about it This one I read and I was like, oh, this is actually really interesting and there's just no way I could answer this myself. So someone asked, what is the difference between settling and compromising in a relationship? Oh, I know. It's good, right? It's good. Because I'm imagining that it's not really thought about it, but I'm imagining that it's quite a fine line. Well, I feel like, I feel like you do have to compromise in some ways in relationships, but that should really be about like, are we going to go to your parents or mine for this Christmas? You know what I mean? Like, silly stuff.

I mean, but so, but I feel like they're two completely different things. Do you? Yeah, because I feel like settling in a relationship means that you have just decided that you can't get anything better or that you won't do any better and that this is your lot and you should. shouldn't hope for more and so you're just going to take what you've been given whereas i feel like compromising is in some cases bending over backwards and maybe doing it maybe doing a disservice to yourself or not harming yourself necessarily but putting somebody else's needs above your own which can be a positive thing but sometimes compromising yourself can also be a very negative thing. It can be completely losing yourself in order to put somebody else's needs

first. But I guess like settling in the sense that like we are taught that there's a there's a Mr. Wright or a Mrs. Wright. There's the one. Okay. And like if you, you know, like how we were brought up thinking about relationship is like it's perfect and you go find someone else like great and you live together happily ever after. And obviously it's not like that. So at what point Are you like I'm experiencing a realistic, healthy relationship that isn't always on a perfect level and then on the other side, like, or am I settling? Do you know what I mean?

I think if you're asking, if you're in a relationship and you're asking that question, then I think there's some alarm bells there. I think you need to look at that. I think that you two both in front of me now would never sit there and ask about either of your partners, am I compromising or am I settling, you know? Because you know when you're in a healthy relationship.

You know when you're happy. You know when you're content. And it's when those things start to, it's when you start to get those niggling doubts. And sometimes niggling doubts are healthy. Sometimes they're just things that you need to work out. Sometimes you just need to process things. But if you're sitting there going,

am I settling in this relationship? And that is a constant thought going off in your head about this partner, then I think you need to look at that. So I think in a relationship, it should just feel content. You should feel content. You should feel at home. You should feel like it's family. You know, there's going to be times where you really are tearing your hair out

and feeling like, but then you get over that and you have a takeaway and then you feel content again. And, you know, so I think when you are feeling constantly like, oh, no, this is unsettling and I'm compromising, then you probably are. That's time to listen to your gut. Yeah. A lot of people said in the question box, I mind, like, when's it time to go?

And it's like, I think if you're asking, it's probably time. Yeah. But I guess people are so scared to go. Yeah. Because you're scared of being... People who are thrilled and happy in their relationships. Just don't ask these questions. No.

Yeah. But then how do you go? How do you go? It's scary going, isn't it? It's so scary. And this is what we were talking about a few weeks ago. And I was saying that I really wanted you on and wanted to, like, explore this because I, not to be...

about me, but like the previous relationship I was in, like, oh my God, we loved each other so much, still do, like, the best of friends, but, like, I knew, and he knew it wasn't right for a long time in terms of, like, there was nothing physical, and it felt like just living with, like, a brother, like it was like a brother and sister. But, like, how do you go? Because that seemed like the most painful, hardest thing to ever even, ever contemplate doing. Like, how do you like for anyone who's listening who's in that position that they know that they need to do something but they just don't know how what would you what would you say to them you know what often those ones become quite messy as well because that's often when people end up like going

towards other people and that's the outlet and you know sometimes I think we're almost conditioned to feel like there has to be a catastrophe or a crisis and that's the only way that a relationship can end because I've ended a long-term relationship in the way that you did as well where it was I actually still really like him, but we don't, he's just not a bit of me, you know. And it's very hard because there's no drama and there's no crisis and you don't hate them, it can make you feel really uncertain. It's actually easier to end a relationship when it's like, oh, I fucking hate you. So much easier.

And I think it's a bit like, you've got to pull off the plaster, haven't you? And you've got to realise that actually that person's not dying. And actually you can't just use them and be like, well, I'm going to go. and if I really hate being gone, then maybe I might realize that I love them and then go back. Obviously, you can't treat people like that. But I think it is one of those things

to pull off the plaster and go. And what's the worst that can happen? No one's going to die. You might be in a bit of an emotional head-fucked place for a little while, get a bit of counselling, do a bit of mindfulness. It's nothing bad. I think that's what we have to tell ourselves.

Like, it's not the end of the world. This was not the only human. This was not the only relationship. like and also try to reframe the thoughts about like this is so sad also this is exciting yeah because at the beginning of when I met them it was all brilliant and we had a really great time and now I'm about to go into the next phase whatever the next phase is whether that's a long period of singleness which is really fun or meeting somebody new who I'm going to be so much happier with than I was with that last person

God it's a it's a minefield isn't it but that is really really nice advice and I think like it's so cliche but it does as well come down to to like communication, doesn't it? I mean, that's literally the answer to everything. It really is, yeah. Because, I mean, if I had communicated earlier, I would have found out that he felt the same for very different reasons, but he felt the same.

And so things would have been so different, but I was too consumed with, you know, I don't know. And it just felt so hard to ever say anything. But actually, you're doing yourself and your partner a disservice by keeping quiet and just burying these feelings. So many different things, isn't it? Because you don't want to hurt this kind person.

But also it's that fear of like, am I making the right decision? And that can really hold us back. And I think a lot of us who are overthinkers can really just get trapped in this like hamster wheel of just like, but what might go wrong? And then what might go wrong after that? And actually sometimes we just have to live and be and do

and pull the plaster off and go. Yeah. Do you believe in monogamy? Yes. I'm not sure it's necessarily the right thing for humans. I don't think, I mean, history shows us that we weren't monogamous at all, any of us. In fact, women used to have sex with several people from the tribe or clan or village or whatever because it was a community that raised a child. And so if the woman had fucked like 10 different people, then all the men would get involved. in raising this child, obviously they'd know which one looked the most like who. I've got to imagine the Jeremy Giles show back there. Oh my God, it's chaos. What are huge.

Oh, my gosh. I don't know. I think, you know, I find it difficult to have this conversation because I actually believe that polyamory is probably better for most people. But I also think that I have been so socially conditioned that there is no fucking way. like I couldn't imagine a man that I'm with even holding hands with another woman like fuck you I will fight you

you know you know something's wrong with me because I would sooner see Alex holding hands with another woman than having to have the effort of having to have another relationship with another man like I would be like okay if you've got the energy for that then you go on but I'm fine I'll just staying with my book and I'll catch you when you come home but that is because you're in a really secure place with him

that's because I'm very lazy and I just can't be bothered to do this all Yeah, I'm not, it wouldn't be for me, but maybe that's, but those, that's because of reasons of me being like jealous and, you know, not, it's not positive things that are making me go, monogamese for me, it's, it's actually all negative reasons why, you know. Are you happy on your own? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, you know, I, I think also, the caveat to that is that I am seeing somebody and I have been for a really long time.

but we are, we're not a match in any way, shape or form, but we have really good sex and that's it. And he's happy with that. He doesn't, you know, we're both happy with that. So, but I think if I didn't have somebody who I could spend my child free Saturday nights with, maybe I wouldn't find it as easy being single. Yeah. So that's, I mean, it's like full fuck, buddy.

Because I get so much, so many comments, just, I guess, get them and feel good Friday as well. Like, I've caught feels from a fuck buddy. Yeah, it's very hard not to. Yeah. And I think that you have to be really a communication. Yeah. You know, if either of you start, then never keep that to yourself.

Tell the fuck buddy how you're feeling, like, because otherwise you do then get into a horrible state. And actually there was, there have been times, we've known each other a very long time, there have been times where I have started feeling like, it's not even that I'm catching feelings, but I've started feeling like, well, it's my child free Saturday. Why haven't you left the day available for me?

You know? And it's like, actually, I can't really make those demands on you because you're not my boyfriend. You haven't got any commitment to me. But then I'll get pissed off, you know? And then I'll have to check myself and feel like, whoa, like, why are you getting pissed off about this? You know, stay, set your boundaries again, stay.

And then that's the important thing, is communicate. Communicate your boundaries. You know, when we talk about women, it's like, oh, like, they're so, we're still romantic. And we're the ones that are going to catch fields. and we're the ones that are going to make it heavy and we're the ones that are going to ruin a good thing by bringing our feelings into it, right?

Do you think the women do feel more in relationships? No. Men are so fucking emotional and dramatic, but we just frame it in a different way. Yeah, because anger. I have to say that that's not like, I don't know, but that's not my experience with being with men, you know. And I remember when I first started dating after my ex

and I was always brought up, like, treat a mean, keep him keen, you know, you've got to play the game and chase. And Dave was like, what? Like, that is not, well, and he was like all in straight away. And I do think we live with this, like, idea that it's the woman that, you know, falls head first, head over heels. And we're hysterical. Yeah, and we can't contain ourselves.

But actually, yeah, and I think domestic abuse really shows you that. Domestic abuse is so much more prevalent from as men as perpetrators. And a lot of that is that, like, obsessive stalking behavior, wanting to completely isolate, being so fucking frightened of the person, ever having any contact. These are emotions. Yeah, it's frustration, anger, sadness. Obsession, dominance, control, all of that stuff. But we just kind of go, oh, that's anger, that's her kind of, like, we're it.

Emotion is synonymous with women. Yeah. With women. We say women are emotional, men are logical. But it's not very logical to fucking stalk your. you know what I mean this is a heavy one and I know we've just talked about domestic violence so much

which is like not the fucking Valentine's Day spirit but someone's asked how would you keep yourself safe in the modern dating scene do you have advice for people dating? Yeah you can read my book every question I ask no I love it it's perfect good book timing yeah we can read your book yeah read my book

I mean I do have a chapter in there called dating dangers which looks at the potential pitfalls that can happen particularly if you are a heterosexual woman well you don't have to be heterosexual you can be bisexual a woman who is dating men there are all sorts of things that we have to think about not only and actually I would say anybody queer people too

but particularly if you're meeting up with a man you do need to be very careful about not going to their house for the first date meeting up in public not letting them know where you live making sure that you tell somebody where you're going and who you're going with don't give out too much information online you know like if you work in the Sainsbury's in Wembley

you can just say you work at Sainsbury's you don't need to say I work in Sainsbury's Wembley you know and also things like drink spiking on first dates you know we do have to be aware of things like that and then you know the book goes kind of deeper into like the dangers of actually dating and getting into bed with somebody

in this day and age where rough sex is so prevalent where you might the chart you know there's about a 40% maybe even higher chance that the person that you're sleeping with will put their hand around your throat the first time I'm choking it is a significant thing that is happening now has become so incredibly normalised

and because it's so normalised especially young people are, it's happening in first sex situations and young girls are just going with it. And I say young girls because it is very gendered. And then of course there are queer people and there are women who are attempting to choke men in bed, but strangulation is a really gendered thing. And in terms of domestic abuse and domestic homicide, it's very gendered. Most women who are killed by a partner are killed by strangulation. So it is prevalent. It is common. and it is one of the things that you might face if you are out in the dating world

and meeting up with people and having sex with them as a woman, there is a high chance that there is going to be some horrible, pornified sex. Well, with sex specifically, what, you know, we've said when you're going out, dating and how you can protect yourself and, you know, not giving your location, that's something, with sex specifically,

is there anything you believe that we can do? I mean, and that's a horrible, like it feels like an almost victim-blaming question, because it's not our responsibility, but genuinely with the interest of safety and with the, you know, because already we know that porn had a huge influence on us, you know, and our peers and boys and whatever,

as we had sex, but it is getting worse, right? Like, TikTok even makes it so much worse. So with that in mind, like I don't ask it to be like, oh, it's a women's responsibility to protect herself, but just from a genuine safety aspect. Well, I think part of the problem is, and many of us will know this over the years,

is that we go along with it for a multitude of reasons you know like sex can sometimes be quite frightening for women and the things that men want to do spitting in your face or like the choking thing or hitting or pulling hair or whatever

without consent because of course that's a whole lot of a conversation if these things are happening within the confines of a BDSM consensual relationship that's do what the fuck you want to do have your safe words be cool but if it is just because this is how this guy thinks women want to be fugged

because he's seen so much porn that has shown him yeah grab her hair and slap her about a bit we have to really learn how to use our voices we have to and I think we have to get rid of that fear of not being liked not being wanted not being desired not being good enough not matching up to how his ex was in bed. You know, there's many of us who have laid there and gritted our teeth while horrible things are happening just because we want to be cuddled at the end and we want him to still like us.

It's very difficult as a woman mid-sex to go, no, stop, this is horrible. I don't like this. And actually, it's probably not the best way to do it. There are probably better ways to do it. But actually, if it's horrible and rough, you should stop proceedings. Stop.

but if you think actually this is someone who's just being like clunky because they don't know what they're doing you could say that doesn't turn me on I'm really not but I don't know why we even need to necessarily be polite I think if a man puts hand around your throat in first time sex without consent

even if he is just some geek who's learned too much from porn I still think mm yeah but we do prioritise politeness and likeness yeah yeah what is going on here you need to see him differently Fox laying here thinking, is he going to like me?

Why do you still like him? Yeah, yeah. You know? So this came up, this did come up a lot actually. So online dating, brutal. Yeah. And it is, by its very nature, appearance-based, totally. Because that's all you can see from a screen, really.

I mean, you've got a few in dress, whatever. But it's swipe, swipe, on what they look like. For someone who doesn't, like, obviously, we have a standard of beauty in society, right? for women especially thin, you know, thinness is desirable according to society. So for people who are, who don't meet that standard and by society standards aren't attractive, I'm putting that in air quotes, how do they handle online dating and just how brutal, how like savage it is? I've written about this in my book.

Oh, there you go. I've literally covered everything that I think. anybody needs to know. And that is one of them, which is like negging online or being made to feel unattractive or fetishization. You did define negging just for those that might not know what it means. So negging is quite strategic. It's, I don't know if you've ever heard of the game by Neil Strauss, I think his name was.

So he was like the godfather of the pickup artist, the PUA's. And if you've read men who hate women by Laura Bates, such a good book. And she talks about the pickup art, the PUAs and where they fit into the mannosphere, which is this corner of the internet which is an ever-growing corner of the internet where it's just a corner of misogyny really, isn't it? In many different forms it's where the in-cells live and the men go in their own way.

And pick-up artists are people who use dating apps and like street seduction shit to try to employ game on women. So for them it's not about actually meeting people with any meaningful interaction, like connection or anything. about quantity over quality. Can I get as many women as possible

to prove my manlyhood to show that I am the man, you know. And women are the ridiculous ones. Yeah, exactly. And this is all for the benefit of other men. You know, they post this up on these Reddit forums and 4chan and whatever to show off to other men that they can get all these women. And one of the techniques that they recommend

is a technique called Neging. And Neging is either an outright criticism or a backhanded compliment. So it might be like I could say to you, M, you look absolutely gorgeous, but your feet are massive or whatever. I've got a good example. I was DM'd a thing the other day being like, if your skin were better, I would fuck you.

Oh, God. Yeah, whatever. Like, I would fuck you every which way. I was like, I would rather be covered in spots from the top of my head and the tips of my toes. But that was, yeah. But this is what they did because so the theory behind it, is that, and they often do it in bars and stuff as well.

The theory behind it is that you will stand out from the crowd because in their heads, all women have got like a flock of men in their DMs, desperate to speak to them and that women can have their pick of any man that they want to and that if you're the one who's like not fawning over her, you're the one who's like, you're not all that, then you're going to stand out more. It's the same games that we play to an extent of it.

Yeah, exactly. And the other theory behind it is that if you bring a woman down a peg or two and make her feel a little bit unconfident, then she's going to then be seeking your approval. And that's, you know, nagging is often used with a negative and then they'll give you a positive and then maybe another negative like a shit sandwich so that you're like thriving from the validation

that you got from the nice thing and then they bring you down and then you're seeking their validation constantly. And it works. That's the thing. It fucking works. So this was back. I can't even remember what was like.

If anything, it's like really confusing, no, isn't it? Like when you receive an insult wrapped up in a compliment, like it's confused. It's, I think, can I say a word now? It might not be the right word. It's discombobulating. I don't know. I've never known what that meant, you know. It's very confusing, it throws you off balance.

Disclobulated, you just, oh, God, I'm so confusing. Yeah. Yeah. It's just like, it's, oh, I kind of got there. approval I've got a bit of validation from them but I also haven't and it makes you possibly what it's just it's confusing it's also disguised as banter

and a lot of us do banter in that kind of sarcastic way and especially with our mates and stuff like where it can be like you know you kind of cuss each other a little bit like not in a horrible way but like if you are bantering you can be all like yeah that's the kind of stupid thing you do or whatever and if we don't take it then we can't take a joke

yes that's it exactly that they have men do it to me all the time literally all the time and it's like and it's odd because even though again there's so many things

I would rather do than ever be in the same room as any of these people it does still to an extent work because it's the initial it's it's discombobulating because you get a minute

like oh what the fuck and the down is the down and the up just happened so quickly like oh god that was weird and it does I can see you know if

yeah it is a head fuck I can see how it I can see how it how easy it is to mould a person by using that technique because you end up as the victim of it of being so much smaller as a,

because you think, oh God, am I? You know, it's just like that sees themselves. Yeah, and you're like, well, they like me, but they still think this about me, and that's weird. Like, because maybe I am quite close to great, but also. But, I mean, this question was in relation to those that go online dating, and so, sorry, those that don't fit into the societal norms. And so negging is used, presumably, for those on dating apps.

Well, yeah, but I think that that is something, because what are societal norms? Society, we're talking about the media. is societal norms, but I think normal humans know that we all come in a big, massive range of attractiveness and that it's all on a spectrum and that what you find attractive is not what I'm going to find attractive and vice versa. You know, I think people need to not judge themselves on dating apps in comparison to what they're seeing on, like, influences and things like that, because that's not who you're in competition with on a dating app.

You're just in, you know, you're not even in competition. You don't see the other women on a dating up. That's so true. Yeah. You only see the people that you're assuming, sorry, it's so hetero in terms that we're using. That's a really part of sentence. The terms that we're using are very heteronormative. And I apologize.

But if you are a woman looking for a man on social media, you're not going to see the other women. So you probably assume, like you say, like all the other women are going to be like Instagram, filtered, whatever. And just know that when you're scrolling by it, again, if you are dating men, and you're seeing like, that guy's hot, that guy's ugly, ugly, ugly, ugly. And that's, you know, again, not, humans aren't ugly, but they're not your type, for example.

So you're like, left, left, left. That's going to be exactly the same. Like, it's not just going to be, like, reams of fucking models that these men are, like, going through, you know what? So I think if you are feeling unconfident and you're, like, you know, I think if you're feeling unconfident and unattractive, it's not a good time to be dating. I don't think you should put yourself out there at that time.

If you're in a good space, you know that the men that don't like you, That's, you wouldn't want to be with them anyway. Yeah. And that's fine. Yeah. And I think women are so conditioned to just prioritize being liked by all men and to aspire to being liked and fancied by all men. And it's like, you want all the boys tripping over you.

And you want all the boys, like, all the boys. So you're never going to get all the boys into not all men. This is another comment on the way we can keep that senders. I know. But not everyone's going to like you. Totally. And I don't know why I keep playing doubles up for you. I'm really sorry.

But like, I'm just thinking like, Because for some people, they will never be okay with themselves. Like women, I'm sure we know women in their 60s, 70s that their self-esteem is on the ground, you know. So I think, like, there's a level of, like, being realistic as well. It's like some people don't have the, like, the means to be able to work to a place where they're okay with themselves. So I don't know why I'm saying this.

But I think that's an interesting point, because I was just flicking through in my head all the women that I do know in their 50s and 60s and 70s. Actually, I really think that there is a sense when you get into your 50s and older that you give much less of a fuck and you actually learn

to be more comfortable in your skin and I think aging probably does that as well because it's almost like I'm not a 20 year old anymore and I'm never going to look like that again. I think you go through this period when you're in your 20s and your 30s and it's like, I have to be at the peak of my buffness,

you know, I have to look a certain way. And then you kind of get to a certain age and you realize, well, that's not, however I've looked at, you know, I've been skinny, I've been fat, I've been this, I've been fat, and nothing has really changed over those periods. Like, I've never been, wasn't, I was happier when I was skinnier or anything like that. And I think women get to a certain age and kind of just go, oh, fuck this. I'm not, I'm not, what's the words,

I'm not participating in this shit anymore. although there's probably 60 year olds listening and thinking actually my self-esteem is on the floor and if you ever feel like it's therapy therapy therapy therapy the same advice isn't going to work for everyone right and like I think that I must be hard for you as a dating expert sorry because there are people and particularly on social media who like not take you know

like every morning I put up I walked to a pond and I put up an affirmation on my Instagram stories and I say sees the day and someone without fail and replies going I can't I haven't got any hand no I'm joking not that but someone every day somebody i put a positive affirmation up and somebody replies with a reason why they can't do the affirmation and i'm like well then don't do it fine i've tried i can't help you if you know if you don't want to if you don't want to help you someone just live laugh love yeah exactly just

forget forget i said anything it doesn't matter yeah i mean it's exhausting yeah you cannot cover every fucking new one but you've done really well in your book to try and do that yeah i've really tried but i just think it's exciting and i think it's really empowering for not just young women but for all women what I feel like your book does and what your Instagram does is give women back the power that I feel like has been taken away from it

and it's so true like not even and also women in relationships as well as we said you know you can still even be in relationship but to know all this stuff is really I think empowering yeah I think it's a book that might help you to help your single friends or your single little sister or you know even if you are married or whatever

so if you could leave with a few parting words of wisdom, which I know I'm putting you on the spot here, and it's difficult because this is obviously very general, because you're speaking to everyone listening, but about being a woman in a relationship and valuing yourself and putting the words in your mouth, but like what would your words be? I think just know that you are absolutely equal to men, that you are not an over-emotional freak, that you are not here to be picked you're not here to be liked

you're not here to people please you're your own autonomous independent person and you can absolutely thrive without ever going near another man again and then when you get to the point where you are completely comfortable and love yourself massively then you can invite men in

but only with the knowledge that you don't fucking need them you want them I want to stand up in the air and I like stand up in the air I want to stand up and punch the air as I was trying to say that was literally the perfect note to end on we can't thank you enough for being here

and you have to come back for part two because we have so many other questions and your annual Valentine's guest yes please see next year same time, same place for the second, for the Netflix reveal of the book that's. Oh yeah my third book could be out by then

yeah you've been so busy in that time I'm optimistic to think people will still be listening in a year but again we'll see. Perfect. Well, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Bye. Bye. See next year. What an interview. I know.

Let's go out of the poll tonight, Al. Yeah, divorcing Dave, Dave. Dave Light, Dave Amelia, who knows. Which Dave, so many Dave. Which fucking Dave. We've got too many Alex's too many days. Cancel Dave on the booking. You don't know who you're going to take.

You don't need a plus one to that wedding. You go, single pringle. No, quite right. Exactly. Go on your own, Al. Thrive. That last line, that last sentence. that she finished on, I was just like, boom, like, wow, that is so good.

I was like, mic-drop moment, just absolutely brilliant. And I hope that resonates with a lot of people. Okay, so is it just me, which I always look forward to? I love the section. So, I've got an embarrassing story for you. It really made me laugh. It was sent in. It was sent in on our email, and we've actually had quite a few.

but if anyone has any embarrassing stories or is it just me that they want us to tackle, please send it into should I delete that pod at gmail.com. So, someone wrote in, I'll keep her anonymous. When I got my coil put in, no one told me how traumatic it was going to be, poor girl. I was sick all over the nurse and collapsed.

Oh my God, poor, poor girl. I didn't know why it was that traumatic. Mine was, mine was, I was sick and I've collapsed. I wasn't sick on another person. Yeah, mine was truthfully one of the worst things ever happened to me. It was really, really bad. It was really bad. Which, that's why I was so scared to get taken out because they're getting it in was...

We are doing a contraception episode. Do not worry, guys, it's coming, but... But yeah, mine was really bad having it. Still, worth it. I absolutely fucking best six years ever with it in. But, yeah, my insertion was horrific. Really? I would still recommend it.

And I say this all the time. I've talked about loads on Instagram. I would still preface all of that with saying it was still a great decision. The best contraception ever. I absolutely loved it. However, yeah, the insertion was really bad. I didn't know that. I didn't know that because, like, my friends had had it done.

And I said it was fine. I had it done and it was fine. And I made sure I didn't Google anything beforehand. Smart. Because I didn't want to hear the horror stories. So the same thing happened to this girl. When I put my coil in, no one told me how traumatic it was going to be. I was sick all over the nurse and collapsed.

When I came to, I thought the doctor was comforting me by holding my hand. And I tried to hold hers back. But she said to me, I'm trying to take your goals. Oh, bless her. That's so sad, isn't it? It's really sad. Oh, no. Oh, no.

So sad. Oh, no. Do you know what? It's actually just reminding me of. I was in a restaurant with Dave, and it wasn't even like a particularly fancy restaurant, but the chef was like coming out and talking to people, right? Yeah.

So he came to us, and we were just like, yeah, like, burger was great, thanks. And the chef, held when he was he was leaving he he went to fist bump dave right but dave went to shake his hand and like it wasn't backing down at all dave like i just wasn't getting it quick enough that this was a fist bump not a handshake so he shook he shook the man's fist and like i when i tell you like watching it it was like slow motion watching it and i laughed about it for so long like i cried laughing because it was just so Dave like he's so awkward and like

just like the least cool person ever and this man was like yeah fist bump and Dave just shook his fist yeah one of the worst things I ever did was when I walked why it always happened at the gym that someone held the gym door open like I'm not that tall

so held the gym door open for me but obviously like he was above me so he put his arm out to help the door to the gym door and I thought he was going for a hug so I just like slit myself in to the calf

as it wasn't meant for me I'm dying it wasn't meant for me oh god and as soon as I landed I was like this is not where I belong it was really bad that is really really really bad

I would hate to have footage of that. Oh, God, it was, oh, honestly, it's really embarrassing. I think about it all the time, all the time. I hate, I hate it, I hate it. It's an awkward world. It's horrible. I haven't, is it just me? So, yeah, this came in over email.

It's short and it's sweet, and I'm actually interested, Alex, to hear your answer. Hi, Em and Alex, loving the podcast so far. Gotta read the praise. My question is, is it okay that I hate smelling another person's fart? but I love to smell my own. Oh my God. This actually ties in to, oh, I was doing confessions. And, yeah, someone said, I like to smell my own farts.

And then, no, I like to cupcake myself with my own part. Right. So cupcakes when you fart into your hand and then you bring your hand to your face, presumably. Yeah, so the idea is that you trap the part and then bring it to your face and you smell it, right? It's a Dutch oven when you fart under the duvet and then you... Exactly, yeah. Okay, so many people responded to me and said that they enjoy cupcakes. cupcaking themselves.

I just feel like that's bad hygiene. Like you're putting all your poo particles in your hand and then you're bringing them to your face. And how many are you like dropping off along the way? You know what I mean? I guess it's like carrying water. Like you're going to spill, it's impossible. So you're going to drop most of them.

Oh, definitely. And like, don't get me wrong. I would rather smell my own than anyone else's, but I don't actively want to smell my own. Yeah, it's not like, I don't mind the smell of my own farts. I don't, like, they're not like, oh. Like, when I smell my own, other people so I'm like oh yeah it's definitely less nauseating yeah for sure I actually just want to

tell you something really sad I've lost my sense of smell oh my god yeah yeah I have no appetite but obviously because I've got this operation I really need to keep my immune system like strong next week and stuff so I'm forcing myself to just eat loads of vegetables because I'm like drink baroque or invent and like just I'm just basically making everything that I do eat even I don't feel like eating just really nutritional because I'm a grown up now that that is peak fucking adulting if I've ever heard it I'm a bit sick I'm going to eat vegetables it really is I know anyway I ate a whole load of brothel sprouts but you need to have this operation exactly yeah so I ate a whole load of

brothel sprouts the day fucking love a sprout and um yeah yeah love them so much um and then obviously afterwards I was like trumping like it was nobody's business because sprouts nothing yeah nothing and I was aware that I could have been creating a Dutch oven type situation that's why I know the lingo but I nothing I couldn't smell it because I have no smell poor boo-ah no wonder she keeps barking Jesus she's like she's like what that's like cupcake I've created like chenobble up here justice for boomer yeah that actually does make a lot of sense now she's not barking at nothing she's barking my poop particles all over the room yeah I don't like the smell but now I can't

can't smell it and actually I miss the smell. I would like to feel connected with myself in this way again. Yeah, when I lost my friends of the smell, I hated that I couldn't smell myself. Well, you know, I don't think I've ever talked about this. I've got a, like, I don't want to use a word phobia, but I guess it probably is a phobia too. I'm absolutely terrified of smelling. Like I have a real thing about hygiene like I always have done. It's weird. Anyway, and this morning during the spider debacle, I got my first sniff of something. that I've had in a really, I haven't been able to smell anything for ages. It couldn't have been the fucking lovely neon candles I've got behind me that that was my first.

Nope, it was me. I just nuts something and I was like, oh my God, I think that's me. I think so, yeah, so I've had another shower. I'm showering twice a day, but I think it's just because I'm just festering. Anyway, yeah, send her in a, I don't think it's just you that likes the smell of your own farts. I think it's not just you. It's overwhelmingly not just you. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I think there's, there's like, there's a, there's a, there's a far-crown. I think cupcaking yourself does feel like next league to me. Like I feel like there's like enjoyment and then there's like and then there's a cupcake. Yeah. Yeah. I think you do,

you definitely advance a level when you cup cupcake yourself. Yeah, it's like going premium. You know what I mean? Exactly. It's paying. Yeah, it's paying membership so you don't get the adverts. I think that's kind of like. But you do what makes you happy.

Yeah, live your life. There are any poop articles. Yeah. Yeah. Cut cake yourself, who cares? As long as you're not harming anyone else. How much does you have to be paid to poo in your own hand? Not much. As long as I didn't, as long as I didn't have to, like, eat it.

No, you just have to poo in your own hand. I just think the indignity would be quite funny. You've got to catch it, hold it, look at it, smell it. Yeah, but okay, okay, hang on, you're adding, you're adding layers now. Right, okay, fine. You just put your hand underneath your pub, poo in it, just pull it out once it's finished. and it's been like laid on your hand

and then you just like pull it out and you're like, hey, I did that. Well, not that much. What are we talking here? Is it something I could pay you to do, for example? Definitely. Yeah. Honestly, give me a fiver.

Like, pay for my coffee and I'll pay with my hat. Were you actually? Oh my God, what do you want? Oat-Late? Sold. But like that's not, I just think, like, as long as you can get rid of it straight away and like wash your hands like 17 times straight away.

I just think there's any indignity to it. I just feel like I've lost a lot. I don't have much self-signity. Yeah, I don't think that would bother me too much really. Right, well, I think you're a fucking weirdo. I wouldn't enjoy it. Don't get me wrong, but if I'm going to get some money for it. I just want to feel like, I don't know, is it just me?

I want to know sometimes I think like I don't have scales because I have a historically bad relationship with my body and I don't want scales in my life. so I don't have them in the house. There are two occasions on which I would like to weigh myself in this day and age. One of them is I would like to weigh my boobs individually and see if they weigh the same. And two, I would like to stand on the scales before I have a poop and after I have a poop to see how much the poop weighed. But also an option, I suppose, for that so that I wouldn't need to buy big scales

is I could just poo in a bowl and then weigh the poo. But I feel like that's a lot. This is like, this is taking a turn. I mean, like, I thought cupcakes was next level, but we've now run to, like, weighing your poo in a bowl on some, like, baking scales. It's simply because I already have baking scales. And I'm bored.

I haven't seen another human being for seven days. Why not, you know? I think you'd be surprised at how little both weigh, like, both boobs and poo. I think it just, like, literally a couple hundred grams, Like, I don't think it would be much at all. Just say that, how much does the average poo weigh?

How much does the average... Don't say we don't ever teach you anything. Oh, my God. It could be up to a pound. Up to a pound. That's actually way more than I thought. What's a pound? Oh, like what weighs a pound.

Yeah, what weighs a pound? A show! I'm doing poos that weigh the same as. There's a shoe. Wait, listen, a jar of peanut butter, a bag of coffee beans, a paperback book, a can of beans, a loaf of bread, a shower towel, a wireless keyboard, a small tablet, a ketchup bottle, a small painting, a toy car, a beer bottle, a small mixing bowl. A beer bottle with beer in it? Yeah. Well, I'm assuming to say.

A beer bottle? I'm pooping out a beer bottle every day. Every day the school day. What do you know? We've really ventured into New Territory. I like it. I've got another embarrassing story for you but this one needs a visual okay so I would like if everyone can go to the should I delete that actually I delete that Instagram and we're going to have it

up there we're going to have a gift up there because I feel like you need to see it as you're watching this right so someone wrote I volunteer for my local scouts group and occasionally I'm involved with organizing camping trips with the kids and so on we have a Facebook message group with all the different scout leaders and volunteers from across the country and any parents that want to help out with a group activities. Whilst chatting on this Facebook messenger about an upcoming trip for the kids and planning all the travel, restrictions, food, safety and so on, I meant to add an emoji to my message, but because I have subby sausage fingers, I accidentally ended up sending a gift of our potato chewing out chips. I had hilariously sent it to my boyfriend a few days before, so it was in my

recently used. I don't use Facebook Messenger often, so I had no idea how to delete it. Loads of people were already seeing it in the chat and in my sheer panic, trying to frantically delete the pooping potato gif, I ended up liking it. The chat fell silent and I basically had to send an apology in case anyone was offended by said potato. Okay, that's actually endearing and adorable and absolutely fine. And because you know what I saw, there's somebody I follow on Instagram who in their parents' WhatsApp group, they've got kids, in their parents' WhatsApp group, accidentally forwarded an unsolicited dick pick that they got on Instagram. I also saw another instance where a woman sent a naked photo of her own vulva to the WhatsApp

group with all the kids in. And rather than behave like normal, decent human beings, all the dads were like, all the people in the group were like, oh, gross. This isn't a and it's like good god the poor woman feels embarrassed enough as it is so to be honest a potato pooping out another potato I arguably I'd welcome that in a Facebook messenger group I think you're fine it could be so much worse yeah just imagine her panic and please um just go and look at what I just sent you in the chat I just feel like you need the visual because it's so cute oh okay so it's a bit more um Graphic. Yeah, then I thought, it really has got a big bumhole, huh?

I just love that she ended up liking it and then sent an apology. So sweet. Oh, my God. Yeah, okay, the more you look at it, I can see why she's embarrassed now. It doesn't sound that bad. And then you see it, it's quite bad. It could be worse. It's not your naked vulva, but it's not great.

And just before we go, obviously, we did talk about this in this episode as well as last weeks and that's the pressure on women to have children, like the societal pressure and the way that we speak about procreation and children and what's expected of women. And actually, the response that we had to the conversation last week was so massive in my DMs, in our DMs, in the emails and everything. And we are going to do, going forward, a proper episode dedicated to this and to women who don't want children. So if there's anybody that you would like us to speak to anybody that you think would make a great guest for this episode. Please let us know. And before we end this episode and before we do open that conversation up again, I just wanted

to read a message that I was sent via DM. There were a lot like this, but I just wanted to share it because we don't often hear from women who don't want children and their voices aren't often shared that much. So I just wanted to share this for anybody who was in the same position. Hello, I just want to say thank you so much for this week's podcast episode, especially for the chat around the no kids. Me and my fiancé decided very early on in our relationship that kids weren't for us. And even as a 20-year-olds, his mum would constantly ask when she was getting grandchildren. We used to just laugh it off, say they already had one because of our dog. But it got to the point where every time we saw his family and then his younger brother had children and it intensified.

And we just had to break the news to her, even though I wasn't particularly comfortable with everybody knowing our decision at that point. I'm much more open and honest now and we'll shut people down if they ask but my brother recently had a baby with his wife and I'm getting married this year after 10 years together and I can already feel the eyes on me it's because I have now a nephew and I'm getting married people are expecting my decision

and priorities to shift and to be honest I love my nephew but it has solidified my decision parenthood isn't for me I just wanted to say thank you for having this conversation and highlighting how life and priorities are different for everyone and there isn't a shame in that I sometimes feel like I'm denying mine and my partner's family of something by not having kids

and grappling with that over our own feelings can be hard. So thanks for the amazing podcast and conversation starters. I hope you feel better soon. Yeah, I just want you to know that I think a lot of people feel like they're on their own with this because it does feel like women of a certain age are just baby mad. But that is not all women. And a lot of you don't want children. And that's absolutely fine.

And you're not on your own with that. So we will talk more about this in a future episode, but I did just want to share that. I'm good on anyone who's exploring it. No matter what conclusion they come to, like I think it's brilliant to. explore it before, you know, you make a decision either way and explore what you actually want rather than what you think you should do. So it's cool to hear that, really cool. And I hope that, I hope hearing things like that makes other people feel, um, less alone, you know,

less alone, comforted and sort of allows them space to, to navigate this, this as well. So nice. Perfect. Well, we're going to be back next week with another episode. We will see you on Monday. We hope you have a lovely Valentine's Day, whether that be in the throes of passion with somebody great or on your own eating a pizza and fucking hating everybody. We hope you have a great time by the way.