Should I Delete That? - Q&A with The Sex Doctor

Episode Date: June 25, 2023

This week on the podcast, the girls are joined by Dr Karen Gurney AKA The Sex Doctor on Instagram. She answers your questions about mismatched libidos to waning desire, and enlightens us with a few new terms – blue labia, for example!Follow Karen @thesexdoctor on InstagramBuy Karen’s book, Mind the Gap, hereFree resources to improve your sex life: https://thehavelockclinic.com/resources/Follow us on Instagram @shouldideletethatEmail us at [e-mail] & edited by Daisy GrantMusic by Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Blueballs isn't a thing, is it? It's not a thing. I mean, so people with all body parts get vaso-c congestion, so blood flow to the genitals when they feel turned on. So blue labia are just as much a thing. Hello, welcome back, shall I delete that, and that's like. And I'm M Clarkson. Happy Monday.

I'm good. Thank you. I'm sweaty. Are you wearing pretty pink earrings? From Madrid? From Madrid, yes. I don't. Oh my God.

I think I told you the start and the finish of my Spanish knowledge comes from Pitbull. I could literally, I got there. I was like, I can get it? If Pit bull can say it, so can I. Otherwise, I'm out. Anything good for me this week? I do have something good. Yesterday, I interviewed the cast members of Mission Impossible for the female lead,

and it was so cool. Can I just say, as one of your closest friends, the fact that you never tell me any, anything that you're doing is absolutely bonkers. I'm just in a room with Tom Cruise. I was like, you're fucking, what? No, no. You're just so like a spy.

It would feel like a brag. Yeah, it feels like a weird thing to be like, guess what I'm doing? I don't know. That's exactly what you should be doing. I was like, wait, what? I'm finding out with everybody else. You hang out with Tom Cruise? But that's really cool.

I saw Tom Cruise in person. He's not very tall, is he? I didn't interview him. He wasn't one of the... Women. Yeah, exactly. It was only women I interviewed. Um, he's not tall.

No, he's not. I think 5'7, as he claims, is a push. Yes. And he had a nice little Cuban heel on as well. A classic. I think I'd quite like myself. I would like a pair of cowboy boots. Everybody's wearing cowboy boots this season.

Yeah. It's what I want for myself. You know what? I'm going to investigate this when I leave. Um, okay, I can't remember my good, which is annoying. I think there was one. Anyway, um, my current, what the fuck? Anyway, okay, my current good, my other good is that every, I, last week I was really

struggling with my mental health um now i was just really tired and really stressed and really overwhelmed and then i had a really nice weekend where i just like sipped on some rosé and sat in the sun and hung up with my friends and i felt way better and then i've had another quite stressful week but less stressful week and then and i'm going to dublin this weekend so nice so it's all really nice and i'm actually stressed about all of those things but in such a good way like i really feel like i'm living life at the moment do you know i mean stressful even in a good good yes it is good That wasn't the good, but it's a good, so we'll run with it. Yeah, really nice.

Okay, love it. Good vibes. Yeah. My bad, the submarine thing, I am seeing such a horrible side of humanity. Oh my God. Yeah, me too. What the fuck? Like, why are we meming about it?

Because at the time of recording this, they're not found, they're still alive. You know, they've still got enough oxygen to be alive and everyone's making jokes. My TikTok is full. Like, I saw one last night that made me want to think. throw my phone across the room, it was a man dancing saying when I realised that I'm not rich but I'm oxygen rich and he was just like dancing to music. I was like, you're all sick. Like this is so sick. It's fucking deranged. Like it's genuinely. And I get

the comparison that people are making between the boat that recently sunk in the Greek waters with 500 migrants on board that got no news time. Yeah. And I get the comparison that newswise they are giving a disproportionate amount to vessels lost at sea. Right. that is a fair comparison but the jokes but the jokes what the fuck like and it's just like

oh well they're rich so we can and it's just like at what fucking cost to you because it's truly it's truly revolting it's actually revolting like we are so stripped of humanity it's been really stressing me out

and like friends sharing them as well I'm just like what the fuck I know I know the diet Prada page shared so many I was like I've always loved that account I saw and it was just like what are we doing What are we doing with people?

Yes, they're rich. Yes, it was probably definitely very stupid to spend 200, like whatever. I mean, it's them, I don't know, whatever. And, you know, the rescue attempts and how much that's going to cost, whatever, that's a different thing. But, like, those people are, whether they're either might already be dead or they're dying, it doesn't matter whether they're rich or not at this point in time. It's literally just laughing at people die. It is, yeah.

Anyway, so. It's fucking, no, it's great. It makes me very aware, like having a, I don't know, to not make it about myself, but it's a very it's something I'm very aware of having being in the public eye or having loved ones in the family are you do think when the worst happens

what's like yeah yeah but like is this does this reveal like the true our true humanity just fucking vile is this what we are like actually or are we just is this just pack mentality and we're like egging each other on and we're kind of

I think social media we just we it's like virtual reality we don't think of it as real Which brings me onto my bad Which is the week that I've had Which has been fucking bullshit Like if you haven't seen it I went viral Accidentally for knocking on the door

Without lifting my arm up I mean that's stupid little joke About two months ago Hit the wrong algorithm And it has had Like now over a million views I've had so much So much trolling for it

And then Andrew Tay got arrested That should probably be my good Again or charge Sorry this time and now, and I did a video about that yesterday because I just doubled down because I've had so much abuse

of that I'm not just going to roll over for this and now, I mean, I cannot tell you what my Instagram looks like. The comments I'm getting from... Men. Yeah. Take love... I mean, I'm getting a lot of support from men

being like, this fucking loser does not speak for us, but so much. I've never known anything like it. Like all these people still... So on the one hand, I've still got comments coming on that page like, she's a ho, she's fatherless. I'm like, loll. I might tag someone to correct you on that one

but like yeah she's a slut she knows what she's doing master manipulator fat bitch fat slut like all this stuff I'm like cool on the one side and then on the other side I'm getting like top cheat Tate's a legend like these fucking hoes like they can't be trusted with their own bodies like men are the real victims here

like oh my god and it hasn't stopped you can limit your comments well I just want to go back to my silly little content now I just want to go back to my silly little brother and like... Limit your comments on that. No, because I just, there's a bit of me, I want this to, I don't want to silence this.

I don't want to pretend it isn't happening. I want people who are scrolling through the comments to see because it is alarming and I really need people to know. Yeah, but it's a toss-up, isn't it? And it's a balance of like protecting your peace and... No, I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm at peace amongst the chaos. It's just crackers, like absolutely crackers that can happen.

So, I mean, great for my engagement. There you go. always a silver lining. Yeah, exactly. But, like, absolutely, just lunatics. Yeah. Absolutely. Horrible.

Yeah. Like, I was knocking on a door. Such an innocuous video. It was ridiculous. It was literally the most boring piece of content I've ever made. But I did write for Cosmo about it yesterday, which is always the biggest dream for me, because I'm, like, the biggest cosmo girl knows it.

I'm the biggest cosmo fan ever. So, and I always have to do my whole life. So, like, every time I get to do anything with them, like, write for them or do anything, I'm like, my inner child is like, yeah, that's cool. So, yay. Okay. Awkward. Awkward.

Well, awkward was yesterday and doing these interviews, and I reverted back to like when I first started in journalism and I hadn't done interviews before. And I was, the whole thing was just incredibly awkward. And I've forgotten so much, like we're so used to now doing these interviews where we interview people for an hour, at least an hour. And we go in depth. And I had about four minutes with each cast member.

Four minutes fly. by but when I did the first one there's a time I just completely forgot about all of this as a timer who like counts down like hand signals to you four minutes left three minutes left two minutes left one minute left then wrap it up I

I could see her out the corner of my eye but I thought she was talking to the cameraman behind me she wasn't and so I was in like full swing in this conversation with two of the cast members and we were talking it was a really good conversation actually talking about like female characters

in the action genre and she, the time I literally had to say to me can you not see me? Oh no. I know and I was like sorry, sorry and she was like wrap up, wrap up and I was like okay, all right I've got to go sorry it was horrible. It was horrible. Can you not see me? I know and then afterwards she came to me and said like

did you not and I was like I'm a standing for this like it's not what I normally do so I didn't and she was like oh my God, sorry yeah I know. Can you not see me? I know, can you see me. I'm not even going to say passive. That's an aggressive, that's an aggressive tone. I actually forgot how brutal it all is and how not nicely you're treated.

Yeah. I kind of forgot. I think I was so used to it at the time. And now we're in such a nice environment now. Like we're, you know, we're so nice, like our guests, we have such a nice time and it's all. I forgot. And I was like, fuck, I, it's actually quite a brutal environment. But anyway, yeah.

Can you not see me? Can you not see me? Can you not see me? It's not nice No, it wasn't pleasant Oh yeah, yeah My awkward is just my outfits The whole week

I'm just not thriving this week I've not nailed it I've not got summer clothes That fit this body And I know you're looking at my sleeves Close your eyes Could you not see me? Yeah, no

I'm dressed like a bowler today I literally look like a pro bowler Because I've got a short sleeve shirt on And I remember last summer Ripping into you for wearing a short sweep shirt Because you look like a pose So I know I look like a professional bowler And I've got my hair slick back

And this morning I literally have my bowling trainers on But I can confirm she does look a bit like a bowler I really do like honestly strike a spare But then Tuesday I came into the studio as well And I leaked so I was wearing the most absorbent top In the whole world Oh yes Just leaked like crazy

Like I just haven't nailed And then yesterday I had a really big pitch Meeting with a speaking event And it was like the woman Oh my God she was so fucking cool Al and it was like her and bent and it was like a women's-led business bitchy meeting not bitchy like catty like bitchy like bitchy

like boss bitch I hate the you know what I mean it was a good hustle environment and she was so cool and I looked down and I just realized I was covered in baby sick I was like where the fuck did that get from so I just like a mess and I never wish the heat away but I am struggling a little bit

not having outfits for it so I'm just sweaty all the time you're wishing the heat away to say it say it No, I'm just wishing, I'm wishing a better wardrobe on myself, but I'm trying to be fashion conscious, like, environmentally, and not go and buy a million and 45 outfits. For context, Em looks like me today. She's wearing...

That's what you're so rewarded. She's wearing a black shirt, black jeans in, what, 30 degree weather? It was 22 degrees when I left the house, but... Oh. It feels like more than that. I know, I agree. The hyperbole is actually justified in this instance, because when I checked, I took a photo to be like, God, it's hot, and then I checked it was 21 degrees.

I was like, what? Anyway. And I look like Georgie Swallow today. You do? I'm wearing an oversized dress that she inspired me with. It is leopard print, though, so it is true light brand. Tours, it is. It's on brine.

Neither of us in particularly sexy outfits. No. Excuse me. You look lovely, but it's not sexual. There's not much skin on show. That's not going to stop people from sexualising you if I've learned anything this week. Probably not. Yeah, that's a point.

Anyway, maybe we both are sexual. Speaking of sex. That's why I brought it up Oh, sorry I'm so late So late Oh my God There's a really good opportunity to here

What a segue Sex You fucked it You fucked it Let's talk about sex Baby Let's talk about you and me It is time to talk about sex

A lot of sex We have Dr Karen Gernie Also known as the sex doctor We learn a fuckload In this episode And she's coming back Fuckload No pun intended

On both of those things Anyway, she's coming back. We love her. We love her. We tried to answer your questions, but then we're too many of our own questions. So she's going to come back and answer your questions. She did some of your questions. It was hard.

No pun intended. Right. Let's get jiggy with it. Hi, everyone. We are joined today by Dr. Karen Gurney. Thank you so much for coming in. Hello, thanks for having me. You are a clinical psychologist and certified psychosexologist. That's a mouthful, isn't it?

And a recognised expert around all aspects of sexual well-being and function. That's right. Very excited to have you in. We have a lot of questions. We need help. Personal ones and also listener questions as well. Great. I put up a question box asking if, does anyone have any questions?

And people do. People have a lot of questions. Yeah. But yeah, thank you for joining us here today. I'm excited to have you on. I think I first came across your page because I was doing a Q&A on. on Instagram and someone was asking how often should you be having sex in long

time relationships and then someone suggested buying your book Mind the Gap which I think I shared and that's how we first connected that's right yeah and they swore by your books and it was really amazing and there's been a lot of good testimonials about your books I'm excited I'm really excited to read it actually called Mind the Gap thanks thanks it's um it's right here there it is conveniently paid between us

yeah I um I wrote the book for that reason actually because people have such wild ideas about what their sex life should be like and specifically what their desire should be like in long-term relationships that when I got approached to write a book and they said, well, do you think you're going to write it on? I knew it had to be desire and specifically desire from a kind of feminist sex science perspective in long-term relationships. So it's great to have it out there in the world.

It's been out a few years now. But I get great feedback and that makes it so worthwhile. I'm sure you know this with your book. It's like having people say this really made it. difference is exactly the reason you write a book. Yeah, amazing. In a nutshell, is that an answerable question for like how often is normal? Well, it is actually. I need to caveat it though before I give the answer because I think we often get caught up in frequency, right? And it's something that you hear people talk about a lot. Frequency as a marker of a good sex life.

I think it's important to note that nowhere in sex science does frequency feature as a marker of a good sex life. So there are plenty of other things that do, being able to talk about sex, for example, being able to see sex as something that requires like intentional and purposeful action to stay good over the long term, etc., etc., but not frequency. So, exactly. So I often say to people, if you're having sex once a year and it's the type of sex that blows your socks off and makes you feel alive, that's a better sex life. than having sex every week that makes you feel miserable. So the caveat it with that, but saying that, people are often kind of drastically out

when they talk about how often they should be having sex. So in my sex therapy clinic, so I see couples and individuals about sexual problems, when I ask people how often they think they should be having sex, they often say things like, oh, I don't know, about three times a week. And that seems to be, I know, audible gasp, who's got the time

that seems to be a kind of accepted social norm and I don't know where that's come from because it's certainly not come from sex science what we actually know from large scale research and we happen to have the biggest sex research in the UK that happens anywhere in the world

we have like a sex census called Natsal that happens every 10 years we know that we're having less sex every decade than we were the decade before and that in the last 10 years people were having sex on average about three times a month now I say that with kind of a caveat of

if that's bad sex or sex that makes you feel crap or sex that isn't pleasurable it doesn't necessarily mean a good sex life but it's a lot less than people are usually expecting so much less is it because we sit on our phones and watch TV series and Netflix and stuff I mean that's one of the hypotheses and I think it's a really strong one is that we are more distracted than we've ever been

before. You know, we work from home, so our emails were always accessible in the evening. We've got kind of TV on demand. We spend a lot of time on social media. You know, the statistics about how many hours a day we spend on our phone. It's like, you know, it can be anything from like four to eight hours for some of us, can't it? That's all time that takes you away from noticing signals in your own body, perhaps of arousal or desire. And it's all time that takes you away from connecting with another person to nurture desire. So I think it's a very strong hypothesis. Of course, we can't know for sure, right, what's causing it.

I think I could say for sure in my own relationship. It's probably the fact that I'm on my phone and working and texting my bodies. Yeah. You take your phone into bed and you're just texting and then it's just like, oh, you'd half be doing something. And then the one's gone to sleep and you're like, all right, see you. Yeah. And it's what I notice in sex therapy with people as well is that it's often that there's

very little time and people are kind of busy doing things they're busy at work they're busy at the gym they're busy with child care all kinds of all kinds of things get in the way but probably now more than ever since smartphones there's a lot to distract us and we might talk about this later if we get on to talking about orgasms and desire but attention is a really crucial part of good sex so when our attention is divided it generally affects things you have no attention Yeah, I'm false then. Not literally. No, that's really interesting.

And I, I, you probably hear this a lot as well. For me, it's more like, at the end of the day, I'm so tired. I'm just so tired. I'm normally full as well. I can't think of anything, anything worse. I'm just like, I'm done. I'm spent, like I've given my day, my all and I can't, you know. Yeah, yeah.

I've got nothing left. And being full, like after a big meal, like you mentioned. I'm full at bedtime. Yeah. I'm just full. it's funny isn't it because we're kind of conditioned to think about sex as something we do at night time I mean not entirely but people often think or maybe we'll go to bed at night time and have sex and I often say to people that's the worst time because not only you're tired and you've got like the stresses of the day

you're maybe also full and you're also thinking I've got to be up in six hours and if we don't get get a move on yeah I've got to say the second time I go to sleep I'm like see yeah I she sleeps I sleep that's it Yeah. So bed times generally, I think, are quite tough. But people kind of think that they should just be able to feel like it when they go to bed with their partner. And it just doesn't work like that. Like desire, it's not like feeling hungry. You know, you get hungry at certain points of the day. Desire doesn't work like that. It needs nurturing. And it isn't nurtured in those kind of environments, those kind of settings, time scales. It feels more mechanical, I guess. Like, get into bed and do the sex. I don't want to do the sex No Do you know it's really interesting You're saying that we don't know where it comes from This idea that we need to be having X amount of sex per week

And something I've noticed And please don't judge me I watch real housewives I don't judge you at all I love them I'm into maths at the moment Are you? Okay brilliant Yeah it's my escapism

But I've noticed that All of the housewives feel that they have to prove that they're having sex Multiple times a week One is even like we do it three times a day. Like that's just, that's just what we do. And it's like a brag. It's like this like, badge of honour, you know? It feels like they have to show that they can keep their men. I think this is like a really old archaic trope, isn't it? Or not even archaic because it's like,

it's from like the 90s and the magazines. And it's like, well, if he's not getting it from you, I'll get it somewhere else. Yeah. So then it's like, I swear Cosmo used to run stuff like, you know, how to give a blowjob, how to keep them happy, how to stop them running away. Fulfill their desires, you know, because otherwise they'll take them. elsewhere. Yeah, and that kind of expectation that you need to keep someone else happy. You need to have sex to, for someone else's benefit and not your own. It's really quite damaging for your own sex life over time. And I think a lot of women feel that and feel it quite strongly around a sense of pressure to feel sexual, but also pressure to not start anything if you don't feel

you're going to be able to continue with it. So those kind of old schoolyard kind of tropes of like blue balls, this idea that you shouldn't lead men on. So if you're not feeling it, you shouldn't, you know, you shouldn't like passionately kiss for 10 minutes because that's going to get them turned on and you're responsible then if they're disappointed.

Blue balls isn't a thing, is it? It's not a thing. Is it not? I mean, actually, like, everyone, so people with all body parts get like vaso congestion, so blood flow to the genitals when they feel turned on. So blue labia are just as much. thing. Really? Yeah, of course, because

that's what happens when you get turned on. Blood flows to the area, but this idea that this idea that men somehow can't handle that is really just about kind of entitlement to sex. Because I noticed that, like, even in myself, I've just had a kid,

but like, you still apologise, you're like, oh, I'm sorry, I'm just, not up to it or whatever. And it's just like, what are you saying sorry for? You've just had it, like, you know, he's a normal, lovely human man. like he's you know like whatever but like it's actually mad even after having a baby i've noticed the expectation i put on myself at six weeks i was like because they say like six weeks you can go again magically yeah and it's like i didn't even have a i ended up having an emergency

cesarean so i was like oh six weeks that seems reasonable and then it was like no and then i said sorry to him and i was like i'm really sorry he was like what do you mean you're really sorry like what for but it's like you just yeah you just say it because we're socially conditioned to right And actually, that's where I think the kind of feminist perspective on sex science is quite interesting because what happens when you're raised to put other people's needs before your own? What happens when you're raised to think men's sexuality is somehow more powerful than women's? What happens when you're raised in a society where it's more important to be polite and deal with your own bodily discomfort than it is to say, actually, I'm not feeling this halfway through. And that then shows itself in women's sex lives, you know, like finishing it because you've started it. And even though you no longer feel like it, you're going along with it anyway in a consensual but not really satisfactory way.

That will impact on your desire over time. But there are so many, yeah, it will deplete desire over time. The more sex you have like that. And there are so many women that I see in my sex therapy clinics that are having that type of sex in their sex life. Like with low amounts of pleasure, with high amounts of pressure. and a sense of their needs come before mine and I shouldn't be impolite. I'm actually really embarrassed to say that it's never even really occurred to me that you can go halfway and then stop.

You know, because of this idea, I thought, like, Boobles was a very real thing and you can't do that to men, like, that's not fair. And that is through no pressure. I stress from my husband, he is not like that. It's social conditioning. It's me, yeah. I've, it's never even crossed my mind that that could be an option. Yeah.

I'll always go. Yeah, that's crazy. And then what does that do to how we then enter into sex? Because if we talk about desire later, we might explain this a bit more. But we can expect that when we've been with someone a long amount of time, like more than 18 months or a few years, our desire, out of the blue desire starts to drop. And desire needs to be nurtured. It needs to be responsive desire. So it has to kind of come out of somewhere.

Like you have to fan the flames of it. So if you're not feeling it to start off with because you've got this very normal drop in spontaneous desire from being with the same partner for some time, what then happens to your ideas of kind of trying to stimulate desire when you think that once you've started it, you're on an escalator to something that you can't get off? It basically means that it's easier to just avoid it

or to just say, I'm not feeling it, than say, actually, I'm not feeling it now, but if we, like, do X for five minutes, let me see how I feel. That's really hard to say if you feel like you're getting on an escalator that's only got one end point. That's like, blown my mind. But then there's like, I added, and we haven't even done the questions yet, because I know, I've said many thoughts on it, but it's just like, but then you realize that you don't, that so many women also don't have the vocab to ask for what they want or even know what they want. And even within relationships, I think women are really scared of being

perceived as like, demanding. Or even like promiscuous. Yes. Yeah. Like, which is a really weird thing because obviously, again, you're with this partner who you could probably be greedy with food around. You could probably be selfish with the TV room. But you could probably be all of these like unladylike in quotation marks characteristics in other areas of your life. But when it comes to sex, there's still this, like, deep shame, isn't there? Yeah. It's really. the kind of final frontier of gender equality, and I see that time and time again in sex therapy sessions. It's shocking, actually, the gender inequality you see when women

and men have sex together without it being about those two people. It's not those two people kind of intentionally doing anything. It's just how the patriarchy shows itself behind closed doors. So the idea that it's hard for women to be sexually assertive and ask for what they want is absolutely true and it's also true that every decade that gets easier for women but we've still got such a long way to go and if I think about

you know the sexual scripts so this is like predefined ideas we all have about what sex should look like you know you hear people talk about bases so everyone's got an idea you kiss then you do a bit of oral sex and someone you know uses that hands then you have penis and vagina sex

and then somebody comes especially if it's the man then it's over in heterosexual sex that script, it's so rooted in culture that it's actually really hard to circumnavigate that if you're having sex with a man. It's much easier for queer couples who find it really easy because there are no set scripts. But if you're a woman having sex with a man, how do you do what you call being greedy? But really, I know what you meant is like asking for what you want. How do you say, you know what, I'm feeling really horny. I just want you to go down on me and then I want

come and go to sleep. Oh, God, imagine saying that. How do, how do women do that? How do women do that? And if women did that, what would be the effect on their desire? Can you answer both those questions, please? Like, how do we'll do it and then what would be? But also what would be the effect on their relationships, generally speaking?

Yeah, okay. So, oh, so many questions within that question. Sorry. No, it's okay, it's okay. So there has to be some understanding within that couple, that that sexual script. is largely based on what works for men's anatomy and not what works for women. So we know that vaginal penetration, for example, is women's least favorite sexual act. Can you give us a, sorry, can we interrupt all those questions with an explanation on that?

Because I think that surprises so many women. Yeah. Okay. So obviously the clitoris is the source, the majority of the source of women's sexual pleasure. And as with all bodies, there's lots of areas of the genitals that can feel pleasurable to the touch. So vaginal penetration can be really nice. It can be sometimes nicer with the feeling. finger rather than a penis. It can be nice just at the entrance and not deep inside. Anal penetration can be nice. All of these things can be good. But the clitoris is really the kind of hot seat of women's sexual pleasure. When women masturbate, that tells us a lot about how women like their bodies to be touched. Very few women masturbate just by inserting something

vaginally. So most women masturbate with clitoral touch with a vibrator or their hand or suction device or whatever. So that's the majority of masturbation. Lots of women masturbate with that plus a bit of vaginal penetration to add to the experience less than 1% of women masturbate just by putting something inside their vagina. And yeah, if you think

about every single teen movie like sex in the city all them and the dildos under their beds are just these like long silican like sticks. Yeah. Wow, that's an accurate. Less than 1%. So women are given an

idea that the source of their sexual pleasure is their vagina and it isn't now it's not to say that some women don't enjoy in fact lots of women enjoy some vaginal penetration and 20% of women can come from vaginal penetration alone because of the internal stimulation of the clitoris through the vaginal wall but most women don't and if you some of the sex research that gets women and men and I'm sorry we're talking in such binary terms that we're talking I know the kind of your podcast listeners and that's why I'm talking mostly about women. But if you want me to talk about trans and non-binary people I can, who don't identify as women. So basically we're looking at sexual acts ranked by ones most likely to give pleasure. Masturbation features highest

for everyone. Most people find that the most pleasurable sexual activity. But for men, vaginal penetration comes next. And for women, vaginal penetration comes last. So after masturbation, You've got touch to the clitoris with fingers. So men enjoy masturbation more. Equal. Equal to vaginal penetration. Really? In terms of reliability of bringing pleasure.

It's so interesting. And then blow jobs go below that. Yes. This script is so wonky. You'd have imagined the way that men talk about it, that like, sex is like the best thing. Then. Below jobs? Yeah, or anal, because people talk about it like it's like.

Yeah. And I think, you know, that treat thing. That treat. That overfocus on vaginal penetration is really a hangover from old ideas of sex being about procreation only, you know, from kind of faith-based reasons. And it's also based on male anatomy rather than women. So I think you first need to have a bit of a discussion in your relationship about actually the way I masturbate doesn't look at anything like the sex that we have. And that's interesting, isn't it? Like, can we mix it up a bit?

Because if we mix it up a bit, I'm going to be having more pleasure, more orgasms. Our sex is going to look more diverse. We know that the more diverse your sex life looks, the more you feel like sex, and the easier it is to maintain desire in your sexual relationship over time. Because predictable sex generally isn't so good for our brains. Our brains go, oh, yeah, this again, not that interested, done that a million times. You want novelty. Yeah, when you mix it up, yeah, novelty.

I find that off. A big red nose. What an image. It's true though. When people talk about, I talk about novelty quite a lot and I'm always really kind of cautious to say to people, I don't mean you have to like dress as Superman. I mean, you can if you want, but it's not novel. That's not what novelty is. Novelty is about it never looking the same. So different places, different sexual acts, different orders, you know, just focusing on one person, different. Different roles like being a different person sexually you know one day you might want to be super aggressive another day you want it to might want it to be slow and sensual this is all novelty

yeah and so in answer to your earlier question i'm sorry it's taking me 10 minutes to get there i keep loading another one on yeah you kind of need to have an awareness together of the benefits of this for both of you yeah and then practice being okay with asking it and having an awareness that it's okay to ask and that's quite difficult and I suppose you know thinking about the relationship between that and other things were conditioned into like body negativity it can take quite a lot of exposure can't it to different ways of doing it or hearing people talk about it or reading books about it before you finally feel able to throw off those shackles and go why shouldn't I ask for this? Yeah yeah and the effect on

your sex life will be extremely positive because novelty around sex and sexual pleasure are strongly associated with maintaining desire in the long term. Wow. Okay, I have a thousand follow-up questions. One of them, you said that 20% of women orgasm through penetration. Yes. Why did you say that was, sorry? Oh yeah, so it's because of the position of the clitoris. So the, obviously, the clitoris, the bit that's external is just like a pea-shaped structure, isn't it? And that's like the glands and the tip of the iceberg. And then the clitoris extends in the body like a kind of wishbone. And that wishbone, the legs, the crura, are actually, obviously the clitoris and the penis started off the same in the womb. So the structure is exactly the same just in a

different order. So the legs of the wishbone are the same as the shaft of the penis. There are a rectile tissue and they surround the vaginal opening. And so, So you get this particular point. It was called a G-spot before. I was going to ask, is that what it is? It's basically a part of the vaginal wall where if you press it, there's likely to be some force exerted on the internal clitoris. That's fascinating.

Yeah, I just always thought it was this mystical G-spot. It's like the code can, right? It's still, it's, yeah, like five to seven centimeters. Yeah. Are that mad? Huge. It's pretty big. I should have brought my little, I've got like a little rubber model.

I should have brought it It's like It's like It's like You know what? You know what? Mine would make a really good teething toy

It's like rubber and Yeah It's bright pink It's a bright teething toy Should have brought it Yeah Keep her quiet But yeah

It's very different You know As you were saying It's very different To how sex is shown On screen And we must remember That's how we learn

Isn't it From the media Because you don't see People having sex You know You don't talk to your family You don't see it What you do see

is representations of usually straight sex on TV being a bit of a kiss and then very quick vaginal penetration where both people are moaning in ecstasy after five seconds. It's always in a lift as well. I just think, he's got that fucking time. Or like the kind of physical energy.

Yeah, I don't know, energy. Yeah. In the shower. Like, yeah. I wanted to ask just before we go back to listener questions, back as if we've gone. Back. No, sorry.

Before we get to listen a question. Poor listeners. Yeah, about people, about, like, what you've seen through research, but also through the people that you speak to, about what happens generally to the, and again, speaking really heteronormatively, what happens to the men when the women do ask, and the women do kind of own what they want,

because I think a lot of us have this idea that we're going to say it to our men. And they are going to run to the pub and be like, what a hoe. How dare you? Like, even though we know our partners and we know they're not going to do that. We still have this thing thing. I'm glad you asked that actually because it can be easy to do men a disservice

and feel like a kind of bashing men here around sex. But actually, you know, men experience similar kind of pressures to women in terms of how they are sexually, but their pressures are different. So we know that women are socialised to look good during sex and have a lot of focus on their bodies during sex because of that, whereas men are socialised to be good at sex and to perform. And quite a lot of the men that I work with say that they often don't really know if what they're doing is the right thing. They wish their partners would be more vocal.

They love it if their partners ask for something specifically. And it helps them enjoy sex more because in the same way that women are distracted by all kinds of thoughts during sex. But let's, if we go with the body image ones, women are distracted by, oh God, what do my thighs look like for this angle? I bet that's putting him off. Men are distracted by, I don't know if she likes this or not. I wish she'd tell me what she likes. So there's a desire, pun intended, on both sides in heterosexual sex for people to be vocal and say what they want. And actually that benefits both parties.

And there's strong research that the more you can do that, generally speaking, the better sex is for everyone. But talking about sex is hard, right? Like, I can only do it because I've been doing it for a job for a long time. You're getting better at it. I come from a family that I mean we can't say the word sex if we have to it's S-E-X

and my mum didn't tell me what sex well she couldn't she was too brought up in a very strictly Christian household and there's a lot of shame around sex and that's been definitely like yeah passed down to us same for me it's a huge disappointment what I do

oh my god I bet no we don't talk about it actually I imagine it is really oh my God but it's I think it's you know, it's really important, I suppose, just to recognise how hard it is for people. Like, it's easy for us to sit here and say, isn't it? Like, ask for oral sex if that's what you want, but then we've got to factor in, have you ever said those words out loud before?

And do you feel comfortable? Like, have you got words for your genitals that don't feel either really porny or really, like, infantilising? And a lot of women don't. They don't have words that feel comfortable. Yeah, because what are you going to say? Like, will you lick my vagina? And that sounds disgusting.

That sounds too anatomical to say, my vulva. Like, that sounds too anatomical. And you've got other words, but often people feel like they're kind of a bit porny. So, like, pussy or cunt, people are a bit like, oh. So what words are people supposed to use? Whereas for men, it's a lot easier. Like, there are a lot of more neutral terms.

You're like, dick. It's just fine. Willie, apart from that's very sexy. Get your Willie out. So I think language is. is tough and having the practice doing it is really tricky there are so many reasons why talking about

it is hard can I ask just again we will go now if somebody is listening and they're like okay how do I broach the topic how would you recommend it like do you wait until you've gone to bed do you go out for dinner and just hope no one at a nearby table is listening like do you okay how would you do it so

I would recommend not doing it just before sex or when sex is about to start but if sex has gone well after sex is often a good time to talk about it or if you're I don't know out for dinner and you feel you can't be overheard or if you're like gone for a walk or something

I actually have a bit of a script on how to do this that's a kind of free resource on my website that maybe I can send and you can put in the show notes if you want to. That's be brilliant. That's basically how to have this conversation and there are a few main points. The first is you start with what's going well.

So you start with I really enjoyed that sex it felt so good I loved this I loved that and then you go on to what you'd like more of so I'd really love it if we did X a bit more

or that was so good can we do that more as time goes on whatever it might be and then you end with the impact that that will have potentially so I really feel if we did more of that

say it was a quickie and you really enjoyed it quick and now you've got your sleep right you might say I'd really like it if we had more quickies because actually I think

I'd be more up for it I'm often worried about getting sleep because I think I've got to invest a long period of time but actually I'd love to do that more what about you? So there's a kind of a structure that generally works. Positive reinforcement, I like it. Like what's going well?

How do you want things to be different and what would be the impact if they were? Yeah, that's brilliant and we'll definitely if that's okay we'll put that in the show notes as well. Sure. I think that'll be really really helpful for people. Okay, so 40 minutes in

I think we're going to actually... It's 40 minutes. Oh my God. Please come back. I will, I will. We'll come back. There's so much to say, isn't there? I know, I know.

Okay, so another huge question, a big theme was, what about when there's a mismatch in libido? Yeah. And there seemed to be a lot of questions that really, it felt like they tended to be from women, and they were carrying shame that their male partner had a lower libido than them. Yes. And, you know, like you said before,

we're used to thinking that men. that's right these feral animals are just constantly desperate for sex and it can feel like yeah okay hard for both parties I guess when that's different

yeah and this is the most common reason people seek sex therapy so that's important to say is that most people that come and see people like me it's because of mismatches in desire so super common it's so common to have a different interest in sex

as your partner that sex science says it should be considered the norm so the starting point is you are going to have different ideas about when and how much sex you want to be having because how can you not if you think about it like be almost impossible wouldn't it it's like having this wanting to eat the same food as someone else all the time um don't want to eat the same food as you all the time like that um the starting point here has to be understanding first how desire works so there isn't such a thing as a high and low

sex drive there are people who think about sex more because they're perhaps more tuned into and people that don't for other reasons. But essentially, desire is context-specific. So it emerges at times when we cultivate it and it goes away at times when other things get in the way like stress, tiredness, relationship conflict, whatever it might be. The crucial thing is that in a long-term relationship, we know we're going to see a drop in spontaneous desire.

So people listening need to know that's normal. And it's just as normal for men as it is for women. So we know about one in five men say that they feel concerned that they don't have any interest in sex with their partner. So it's about 15% of men, so it's a bit more than one in five, I guess. Is it? Maths. And it's about, I'm just trying to work that out. Maths is not my strong point.

Sex is my strong point, not math. 34% of women feel concerned that they don't have any interest in sex at all. When you say 15% of men feel that they don't have interest in sex with their partner? Yeah. Would they have interest in sex with somebody else? No, so this is a fascinating fact. Problems with desire only show themselves in long-term relationships. So if you get yourself a new partner, you're going to see a sudden increase in spontaneous desire. And then the longer you're with that person, that's then going to drop off. And that's the reason why people, it's usually women who have this particular belief, they see me and they say, it must be me because it's happened

in every relationship I've been in. And it's not you. It's being in a long home relationship. So that drop off in desire and that desire discrepancy is normal. That's the first thing. So people have to learn about how desire works and that's why I wrote the book. There's a lot to say. But if they want, you know, there's loads of free stuff on my Insta. If they, I've done a TED talk on it and stuff if they want to know more about it.

But essentially, you have to understand the function that sex serves in that relationship. So when people say it's a problem because my partner wants sex more than me, which is a really common thing for people to say what is it that their partner is wanting to get from that sex? So we often think about sex as being like a physical act that meets physical needs.

Sometimes it can be but it's much more common for a need for sex to be driven by something that isn't physical. So a psychological need like feeling desired, feeling connected, stress relief,

having fun, having adventure or a relational need like cementing relationship coming back together again sharing something i never think about it like that so one of the exercises that i like to do with people is to get them and their partner to understand what are the key reasons motivations that they usually have to be sexual and it's okay if horniness is one of them but let's be honest horniness can be met by a wank for everyone right so it's usually something more

than that that people feel they're missing when there's a desire discrepancy and having that conversation changes everything because if I think about couples I've worked with where, you know, one person has felt concerned about the lack of sex and they've been able to share with their partner that actually I just don't feel seen by you. I don't feel desired by you. And I've said to them, well, when did you feel most like that? When are those moments? And they've said, oh, you know, she grabs me before work and she pushes me up against the fridge and kisses me goodbye. And it's five seconds. But in that five seconds, I feel feel really desired by her.

That is what they're after. It's not sex specifically. It's being seen in a sexual light. And going back to what you're saying earlier is the idea, maybe the thing that stops a lot of women doing it is this, we don't want to leave them on. Exactly. They're on the way to work so we don't want to start something.

And that's a real safe time to do it, right? Which is often quite interesting. Running out the door. Because then nothing can come of it. And what I say to couples is you are going to want different amounts of sex, but let's not worry about that. because what you need to be able to do is communicate why, what it is that you're wanting. If it's the case that you are able to say to each other, oh, I really feel like sex tonight.

But I think it's because I just really miss connecting with you. And can we go to bed for half an hour and see what happens? And even if we don't have sex, I know I'm going to feel more connected just by doing that. That's a real no pressure way to fan. Oh, this is all so nice. It's just not, whenever we've talked about sex, it's always like. Like, I don't know. It just feels like quite, like, either depressing or anatomical, but it's really nice. It's just like, oh, well, this is, it's just good. It's just like, oh, we could just chat this out. Like, yeah. I don't know. It's nice. I feel like it's really scary for so many women to have to open up these conversations, but the solutions all seem lovely. Yeah, the solutions are, and I'm stressing to say this, actually. The solutions are easy. It feels really hard, but it's actually not. The problem is in how we view sex as a society, not in your relationship. or yourself and a lot of women particularly but also a lot of men as we've talked about just now

are walking around thinking there's a problem with them because they could take or leave sex because they haven't wanted to text for months and months and months because they're not that interested and there is no problem with them and it's relatively easily fixed and it doesn't indicate that there's necessarily a problem with the relationship either that it's like terminal because I think I've heard those questions before where it's been like if I don't want to have sex with my partner does that mean that we're over and that's that is a common worry and I think my only caveat to that is that physical attraction

is pretty important and quite often that can wane even if we don't want it to. Can it wane forever? It can wax and wane for people but I think there are people that know deep down that they've lost that physical attraction for their partner and that's really hard actually

if you still love someone but sexual interest, sexual attraction can wax and wane much more and people can go through phases are feeling a bit like brother and sister or sister and sister, it's two women, they can go through phases of that and they just need a bit of like

turning up the sexuality dial and turning down the flatmate's dial, if that makes sense. Because what happens is the longer we're with someone, the more the ways we relate to them, the sexual way gets diluted by co-parent, by friend, by sometimes like co-working partners

if you're working from home, flatmates, and the sexual side of the relationship just kind of like dwindles away and it becomes really hard to relate to each other sexually. So if you can turn that up, usually you can turn up sexual attraction again. Oh, that's nice.

Yeah, that's really interesting. And that's good to know because I think a lot of people as well feel like when that, you call it spontaneous desire when that initial attraction that is just like you can't keep your hands off with each other at the start of the relationship, that when that sort of peters out

that it's because of you it's although they're just not attracted to me anymore that's exactly what people think yeah yeah or it's because of them and there's a problem with their desire there's a reason why spontaneous desire is really high at the start of the relationship and it's because they've still got quite a lot of mystery around them

you've not learned all their bad habits and generally in life we find things we've not got quite alluring and attractive we find things that we've got and they're very secure to us less alluring and attractive so that's later down the line And we also spend lots of time doing what I call sexual currency. So there's a sexual charge between you at the beginning, which is like palpable, right? People could see it.

You can spot a new couple, right, out in a bar, can't you? Because the eye contact, the flirting, the passionate kissing for kissing's sake, the sex texts, the, you know, all of that. It's really high at the start and then it tends to drop off. And so that sexual currency is something that if anyone's listening and is thinking, I want to make a change in my sex life, where's the place to start? It's to turn up sexual currency without any pressure for it to go anywhere. So passionate kissing for kissing's sake, flirting, bum grabs, you know, whatever it might be. Yeah.

That's the way to do it. Amazing. Okay, that's so interesting. It might have to be a bit more of a quick fire now. No, I'm no good at quick fire. do you need quick fire and then I'm asking you an incredibly deep question do you need to have sex to have a healthy relationship no plenty of people have a good relationship without sex it's important and particularly it's important to say that there's plenty of asexual people that are quite content without sex with another person I would say that sexual satisfaction and relationship satisfaction are highly correlated in research so there's There's definitely people who can have good relationships without sex, but we know that for most people, one sexual satisfaction declines,

it means that relationship satisfaction can also decline. So it's not a one size of it at all, but for most people, sexual satisfaction is actually quite important. Okay. That was a nice quick answer. A single woman I asked, which I thought was important to answer, as a single woman, is it emotionally and physically detrimental to go without sex completely?

No, not at all. And better to go without sex. than to have sex that's not good for you. And the orgasm gap is at its highest when women have casual sex. So the orgasm gap goes from like 65% in regular relationship, committed relationship, or regular partner to about 8% for women with casual sex. So women's chances of getting pleasure from casual sex really drop off. Of course, they may be having sex for other reasons.

Great, as long as you're getting that, that's good. But yeah, better to have no sex. than have sex that doesn't meet your needs. Yeah. 8%. Yeah, it's really low. I mean, to be honest, it's hard to replicate. So there's different stats around that ballpark of different studies, but it's low.

It's really low. And men stays super high, 95% in all context. Is there something to be said for a lot of, I think, and I don't know if it's a trope, because I just don't know anything about women. I don't know if it's just about sex. I don't know if it is a trope or if there's truth to it. Do women need to have an emotional connection with a man in a stronger way than have to have with the woman.

No. Again, heteronormatively. Yeah, I'm glad you asked that, though. No, they don't. It is a kind of a bit of an idea out there that people need different things. And it's really not the case. What needs to happen is that when sex happens, it needs to happen in a way that fits women's anatomy. And what generally happens with casual sex is that that sexual script is more closely upheld.

Right. So it's hard to have casual sex, for example, that doesn't end up in penis and vagina penetration. Right. And it's more difficult for women to feel relaxed, receiving oral sex, for example, from a stranger than it is. Right. So women are getting less stimulation. So when you talk about sex three times a month or three times a week or whatever, you know, like when you talk about sex in that context, you are not talking about penis and vagina sex. You are talking about any sexual contact.

I think that's a really important distinction. That is important. Yeah. I mean, I don't use. the word for play, although I've just used it now, I don't use it because it's just a word that marks all other types of sex in a hierarchy as less than. So all sex is sex. Yeah, that's such a good point. I've had this conversation a lot whenever I've done at Q&A's on Instagram with particularly people talking about vaginismus, which I think if we've got a sex to touch on would be quite useful because I think, do you know what the stats are on vaginismus?

About 8.5% of women in the UK experience paid sex. That's a lot likely to. to have that, then you are to get an orgasm from a one-night stand. Yeah. Yeah, it's really common. So that's the dryness of a vagina, if I'm not mistaken. Vagenismus is where the pelvic floor muscles kind of contract and make penetration painful or difficult or impossible. And there are other types of pain conditions as well that can affect women in terms of having sex. There are quite a lot of them. But vaginismus is really common and it's um it's really common for younger women so the majority of women that i see um

with vaginismus are in their 20s um and it's because there are it's all of the kind of social conditioning um and they're kind of not being able to assert yourself comes into it um it's a very real physical condition um which is connected with what's happening in our minds because the pelvic floor muscles are really um they're really quick muscles to to tense up when we're feeling stressed. So it's a very kind of real interplay between the mind and body. Yeah. I think that's going to be helpful to validate people who have sex that doesn't look like

penetrative, just penetration all the time to know that like other people are having different kinds of sex. And the conversations I often have with women Virginismus also is about let's look at the stats generally for what type of sex women like. You almost don't even need to talk to a new partner. about vaginismus if you don't want to you can just say look I could take or leave penis and vagina penetration

can we not do that you can do that you don't even have to say oh I've got these worries about pain I've had this problem before you can say that and you're welcome to say that but I think that it's almost a message for all women which is that you don't need to have the sex

that society expects from you if you just want external touch to the clitoris only and no penetration at all in every sexual experience you have that's fine yeah it's nice to give women that's really yeah very empowering yeah there were lots of questions about dryness okay one woman asked i've never i've never ever had a physical response from being turned on even when i am even when i am the most turned on it never correlates with me being wet and i've always it's always made me feel really abnormal great i'm glad

you asked this one as well because there is a myth that if you're turned on you should be wet and we know there is a low correlation between arousal and wetness. So vaginal lubrication is to do with all kinds of things, like how hydrated you are, where you are in your cycle. Even things like antihistamines will dry out vaginal lubrication. So there isn't a correlation. So you can be really turned on and feel quite dry or you can be not turned on at all and feel a little bit more wet.

So it's important to normalise that because a lot of people worry about it. and it's really problematic if partners interpret wetness as a sign of something because it often isn't. My take on this is that everyone should use lube all of the time. No exceptions. Loeb makes everything better for everyone. And you can't really rely on your body kind of naturally producing the exact amount of lubrication that you're going to need to make sexual touch comfortable.

It just doesn't work like that. Right. So it's not abnormal to have no... Not at all. Yeah. An easy, not an easy one, a quick one. I wee after sex to prevent UTIs, but how much grace do I have? Do I have two minutes, five minutes or zero minutes?

Because I'd like hugs first. So this might be a one for a medical doctor. Geiniekeek will have your answers here. The latest I've read on this is that there is no evidence to support the weeing after sex theory. You're sure. I know, I know, I know, but. Cut your eyes through the thing. I spent so long.

the time that I'm trying to make way... Have you? This is the latest I've seen. So don't take me for red on that. Get a medical expert who's kind of an expert in gynecology to give you that answer. But it's something, as far as I understand it, that there isn't any research for.

But I must say, if people think it works for them, keep doing it. Not everything is shown in research. Okay. We have to do the final question now. Yeah. I have to choose one final one. But please me, promise to come back while we have you on there.

Okay, thank God. I'll bring my little rubber clitoris that we talked about. Oh, good. Yeah, I'll bring the baby. Right, we're going to finish off with how do I reinitiate sex with a partner when we both feel bad about our bodies? Mm-hmm. Okay. So concerns about how our bodies look or taste or smell when we're naked is the number one distractor from sexual experiences, particularly for women, but for plenty of men. as well. So this is really common. And it's very rare for people to have sex where they don't

have thoughts at some point about or what does my body look like or what does what do I taste like or those types of questions. So just to normalize that. It's the kind of thing where it's something you kind of don't work on in sex because that's almost not the time to work on it. So I usually advise people to engage with as much kind of body positivity or kind of social commentary on rejecting idealized versions of what their bodies should look like. And if it's specific to genitals, for example, which is for a lot of women particularly, I'll say to them, like flood your Instagram feed with things like the vulva gallery, which are obviously kind of an Instagram account that's devoted to diversity and how vulvas look, different types of labour. and different colours of skin, different amounts of hair, etc. These are the types of things that we need to do to try and reject some of that, kind of unlearn, I suppose, counteract some of that social learning.

Reading books like yours would be a way forward. It's work that you kind of need to do on yourself outside of sex. When you're in sex, then, having done some of that work, the most important thing that you can do is practice retraining your attention on something other than your body. So for people who are into mindfulness and mindfulness is great for sex and maybe next time we'll talk more about why.

If you're used to redirecting your attention because you do it in other areas of life, maybe you redirect it to your breathing or maybe you use mindfulness apps, you can use mindfulness in sex by noticing your mind has wandered to a negative body thought and bringing your mind back

to some sensation that you have in front of you. So it can either be focused on you So what does that touch feel like and paying attention to that? Or it could be focused on your partner. So it might be at a particular part of their body or looking into their eyes or touching their hair or something that you can pay attention to instead and just let that thought go. So it's a bit like instead of jumping on the thought and spending loads of time obsessing over it, you let it happen but redirect your attention to something else which is more sexual.

Yeah. I really like that answer. That's something like that's very practical and action. and yeah clever really like that yeah thank you good place to finish then it is when are you coming back tomorrow thank you so much that is so much incredible information thanks for having me it's been great so much but yeah you have to come back please part two I will I will thank you so much we're going to leave your a link to your book mind the gap in the show notes and also the free resource um that you have on how to talk to your partner arsex and yeah and your

instagram handle and great yeah thank you so much for joining us thank you thank you thank you should delete that is part of the ACAS creator network