Should I Delete That? - Self-acceptance with The Birds Papaya

Episode Date: January 2, 2023

This week, the girls are joined by the incredible Sarah Nicole Landry, AKA @thebirdspapaya. What a woman - Sarah, a divorced and remarried mum of four (from babies to teens), shares her own self love and self acceptance story and breaks down the nuances of why we police women’s bodies in the most brilliant way. Em and Alex bring in the New Year with their resolutions; less guitars and more whiteboards, not to mention a baby!Follow Sarah on Instagram and listen to her podcast here. Follow us on Instagram @shouldideletethatEmail us at [e-mail] by Daisy Grant & edited by Hattie MoirMusic by Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I think the women could have ruled the world and saved everything if we had just not had to think about our body so much. But because we have, it's going to take a little bit of unconditioning or a lot of it. And so as you sit in that middle ground, let yourself think about it. Hello. Hiya! Happy January. Happy New Year. Happy New Year.

Happy New Year. Oh my God. That's crazy. I know, 2023. Don't you find, like, oh, it's only towards the end of the year that I get used to, like, writing the actual year and then it changes again. In my head, it's still 2021.

I know, and I liked 2021, and you know what? Take or leave the two. Like, I don't, the number 22, I'm just not that bothered by, so I'm kind of okay to be, be with 23 now. Okay, okay, why not? Yeah, we haven't even spoken. We've sent a few texts over Christmas, but we haven't wanted to bother each other,

which has made me very sad because I don't have so much I want to talk to you about. I want to know about your Christmas. I want to know everything. But mostly, I want to know what you did. What have you done? Why awkward? What have you done? Okay, I have two concerns.

Number one, I'm worried that I have just completely like over-egged this and you'll be like, oh, it's not that bad. But number two, Dave was like, are you sure you want to tell that story? And I was like, oh, do you, what? Do you think he was just like, it's just, it's quite, I don't know. It's quite a lot, isn't it? And I was like, oh, my God, what is it? But I mean, look, I only have a shred of dignity left after this entire year of the podcast, so. I'm ready.

No, I'm not ready. I'm sweating. Hang on, I'm excited. I've got, like, sweaty excitement. Okay. No, don't be excited. Don't be excited. Imagine it's going to be shit, okay?

You're really good at backing yourself and telling us so I'd like to see you on Dragon's Den. Honestly, imagine you're looking in and just being like, look, guys, imagine it's shit. You don't want to back this. Okay, imagine you've got no money, okay? Because when I tell you this, like, pretend you how. haven't got any money at all and like this you've just got nothing for me okay so this is completely pointless and wasting everyone's time okay now i'm going to do my pitch right that that is normally the angle i like to take right i like to set low expectations but i've said that this is the

is the most awkward just tell us out just tell us you know how i've been worried about my pelvic floor i've said it on here i'm worried because i keep coughing and like we is threatening to come out right and sometimes a little bit does come out and it's weird like i haven't had a baby like why have I got a weird like why is my pelvic floor like failing me so so you said actually I think a few of people have said like don't we in the shower don't we don't we standing up yeah yeah yeah number one don't we in the shower because like running water makes like I don't know something about you shouldn't we with running water yeah and then you'll need to we every time you hear running water yeah and also don't stand up while you wee it's bad for you so

So before I go into the shower, every morning, I've been making a point of sitting on the loo and just making sure that I wait. Just like trying my best to get something out, even if it's not coming. I'm like, I'm going to stay there. And also I've been like pushing my bladder, which I don't know if it's necessarily like a healthy thing to do. So if anyone's got any info on that, do tell. I was in a rush one morning, so I jumped straight into the shower, right? And suddenly I was like, oh no, I need a wee. I really, really, really need a wee.

But like, I was like, I don't have time. I'm in a rush. I don't have time to get out, dry myself. go to the toilet and come back so just pee in the shower it's fine and I was like do you know what though I am going to squat the shower because I shouldn't pee standing up I'm going to squat so I took my position right and I didn't just like bend like I full on squatted like my bum's almost on the floor like you know like how frogs sit right yeah it's it's stunning isn't it okay I start peeing and at that moment the door opens and Dave walks in

and he goes Are you doing a poo? And I was like, no, no, no, no! I was like, no, no, no, no, I was like, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, get out, I'm not doing a poo. And he was like... Oh, you're doing a poo! I could just hear him like, like, shouting, but like, oh, oh! So I rushed through everything, I went out and I was like, no, no, no, no, I promised

wasn't doing a poo. I was like, listen, Dave, I'm worried about my pelvic floor and they say you shouldn't pee in the shower. You shouldn't pee standing up. So that's why I was squatting. And he was like, oh my God, I just can't. He's like, it's burned into his brain forever. Are you doing? I mean, that's what it looks like. Imagine me just like full on squatting, naked in the shower, peeing. There's a name, right? There's a name. What's it called when you step your poo into the shower

plug there's a name a waffle stump a waffle stump if you poo in the shower because apparently that's the thing to make it go down the plug hole you have to stomp on it

and it's called a waffle stump that is so disgusting and I think it's because like it's like a shower great like a shower plug quite often looks like a waffle you know so oh my god that is so disgusting. It's a thing.

You could have been shitting in a shower and then waffles stomping it down. I could. Well, there you go. I want to say something. Romance, like, you, like, Dave is in no position to blame you for killing the romance in your relationship because we've all seen what he got you for Christmas. So, I feel like... I know, I know. I feel like January in the light mealie household might be a good time for some couple therapy.

I don't know. Send you on a little retreat to, like, relight the mask. after the quaver's in the waffles'omp. Every time we look him in the eye, it's all I see. And I'm like, what did you see? Because, like, you know, I couldn't really see me from my perspective. I just know that it was bad. But, like, he walked in and thought I was taking a shit in the shower.

You know, it's... Like, imagine finding that out about your wife after a year and a bit of marriage. What a perversion. She likes shitting in a shuffle and no one's around. And then waffle stomping it away. Oh my God, so fun. That's like your feet are so exfoliated and soft because it's all that stomphing.

Do you know what? I lived in my early 20s. I lived with four other people and one person, when we were drunk one night, did a poo in the bath and to this day no one knows who it is. What, in the, not in the bath with their own water? Like they just pooed in the bath,

like an empty bath? Yeah, in an empty bath. Our only toilet in the, our only bathroom him in the house. Oh my God. So it was one of five of you? Yeah. And everyone has, no one, everyone has denied it, like, vehemently.

Like, absolutely, like, and all I know is it wasn't, all I know is it wasn't me. And I am, I know that it wasn't my boyfriend at the time as well. But apart from that, we just don't know who it is. This is like, this is like, have you seen Glass Onion yet? On Netflix. No. No. What's that?

Well, he's a detective's knives out. It's like the sort of sequel for Knives Out. Oh. Glass Onion. Yeah, both great films with Daniel Craig as like this Southern American detective. But that's who you need. You need to call him to come and work out who did this poo. I mean, it's too late.

The only thing, you know, is if we had a DNA tested the poo, but it just seemed a bit far fetched at the time. Yeah, that's true. It's one of five. How do you know it was your boyfriend at the time? What evidence do you have? Because I was with him the whole time. All night. And like.

Oh, I'd love to be a detective. You know, I don't know for sure, but like... You don't need Daniel Craig, I can do this, I can do this, get me those people, yeah, we'll get him all in the room, I will do, I will work out who took that poo. Easy, easy, oh my God, fun. Yeah, this is what I was born for. I mean, speaking, have you watched the traitors? I have not. Oh!

Okay. You have to watch it, I have, I become utterly, utterly obsessed and since it, and since it finished, it's all I can think about, I mean, I mean, I can't put it on my best. You've got, no, you've got to watch it, like, immediately. Don't go on the list. I can't watch it immediately. I'm in, I'm in the situation I was in during lockdown. I've got, I'm still at my mum's house, and there's too many people. There's people coming, there's people going out.

It's been, it's been like Piccadilly circus here. My sister has got the worst flu ever. She's been so sick. She flat out missed Christmas Eve. And you want to know something really fun. This is probably my bad. Me and my brother are such dicks. Okay.

So my mom had a party on the 22nd, like a drinks party, Christmas drinks, whatever. And I, in my pregnant, grumpy way, with my good boundaries, at 11 o'clock, I was like, fuck you people, I'm going to bed. You're all chatting absolute shite. I'm going to bed. And I got into bed and outside my room, like, I could just hear Katia just chatting, absolute shite. Like, drunk as you like, chatting with their mate. And I was like, I was really cringing.

You know when you're sober and you're listening to someone that you love drunk talking? And I was like, oh, my God, I'm so embarrassed for her. Like, this is just mortifying. And for the good of our relationship, I was like, I wish I wasn't hearing this. And I kept going out and, like, chivying her away like a stray dog. I was like, go, go. I don't want to hear this.

Long story short, she was shit-faced on the 22nd. And then on the 23rd, she came down, and we were all going to a carol service. And Katia has got previous of getting out a family arrangement. She's a classic Carol service bailer. I don't think she's ever come to one. Every year, there's always one thing that we're all. going to that she's like

I'm sick. So when she came down on the morning of the 23rd and she was like guys I think I've got COVID. I was like you have a hangover and you've earned this hangover because I heard you chat and shite with your mate outside the room. And she's like no no no I'm really sick

and me and my brother was sending her emojis of like Pinocchio with this really long nose and we were texting her being like guarantee you'll be better tomorrow because we always go to the pantomime on Christmas Eve. It's like guarantee you'll be better by the pantomime like you just you know oh you just can't make the carols all that we were absolutely like going for her um and she came to the carols she came to the carols and

we were like see you were just hung over and she's like no i've had a hangover before this isn't the hangover i was like you're 24 now it's just her birthday last month but i was like this is it you're just getting older you just feel shit okay and these are the these are the actions and you just got to buckle up all right so we went to carrolls christmas eve she was so sick Alex. She couldn't come down the stairs. She missed the pantomime. She missed everything. She called one-one-one in the middle of the night and they told her to ring nine-nine because she like couldn't breathe. Oh my God bless her. She was so sick and she spent all of Christmas day with a mask on and like she was vomiting. Oh no. She couldn't breathe. She's had a

temperature of 40. She's so ill. And we're terrible people. But I mean she is the boy that cried flu. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bless her. Oh my God. Bless her. No one else caught it.

No, it's really weird. My mom and my brother, my mom and my brother have a cold and they've got like the cold. You know, like it's quite a bad cold that everyone's got. Cassie's got this flu and I don't know what's going on, but me and Alex are just fine. And we just keep like sitting here. We've Googled it like five times like, why are we not sick?

Like, why are we okay? My only logic is that it's simple. The whole family takes Zimprove, but we've been on it the longest. And that's the only thing I can think, because it's a probiotic, that that's why. Do you really think it's Simproved? It really do. Like, Mum's on it, but she's only been on it for a couple of months. Same with Kat.

Finn's only been on it for a few weeks. But me and Alex have been on it for years, and I genuinely think it's, well, that's why. I'm not sick. Okay, that's, that's really good, because I started, well, the, the consultant, IVF consultant, told me to start Simproved. That I had to start Simproved, had to take a probiotic for this. So I've been taking it. it for like a few weeks now. Struggling to remember in the morning, really, really struggling with that. No, well, I mean, I'm lucky. I've got the best husband in the world and he wakes me up

with my Simprove. This is not part of my ad at all. We've never worked. We've never worked with the podcast. But I work with them anyway. Just to say, normally I have 15% off. But in January, I've got 50% off if you subscribe. So if you use M50 when you, and I'm literally telling you this is a mate and anyone else who's listening. I promise this isn't an ad. Obviously, I've worked with them for years, but this isn't an ad. Yeah, it's like on the subscribe and say, thing or subscribe like three months subscription or something you get 50% off which is obviously huge oh okay I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna use your code to get some more then because I think mine is running out quite soon so I'm gonna use that to get some more what's your good my like I guess I don't know

I don't really have a specific good and even have a specific bad or awkward because I can't differentiate the days um the good I guess I just had a really nice time over Christmas like also I'm gonna count them two four six eight ten 12, 14, 15. I was bought 17 books for Christmas. I thought you were counting mag pies. I was like, whoa. Oh my God.

That would be insane. I've never seen that many magpies together. I wonder why. I wonder why they didn't go out. Is it like tops four? Because you get like, you know, one for sorry, two for joy, three for a girl, four for a boy.

But I've never seen more. Here we go. We're talking about birds again. Fucking twitches. Little curtain twitches. I know, can't help it. What's wrong with us? Yeah, I got bought loads of books for Christmas. And obviously, I love reading. On Boxing Day, I read a whole book and a half.

It was a big book. Do you take it all in? Yeah. Do you ever read a book that you're like, I can't get into this? Well, yeah. And it's a bane of my life because I also can't quit. Like, I'm physically in Klipp of quitting a book. So I just have to, do you not remember in the summer when I had like the worst time of my life reading the seven, no, seven deaths of Evelyn Hardcastle. Don't read it, guys. Don't read it. So if someone gets you a book that you're like, I know I'm not going to enjoy this, but I know that if I start reading it, I'm going to have to finish it.

Sometimes you're just like, no, I'm not going to read it. Oh, yeah, I wouldn't start a book I didn't think I was going to like. If I've started one, I'm not going to quit. I've read some truly terrible books in my time. The Milkman, also, don't read that. Horrible. Really? Even the book I just finished, yeah, was it cool?

It's over there. It's called Crossroads. I didn't like that. And I was reading it on Christmas Day, and that's the one I had to finish on Boxing Day, because I got all these new books for Christmas and I woke up in the morning. I was just like, ugh, I have to get through this. And I just hoovered it. Like, I skimmed and who, like, I can read so quickly when I need to

because I was like, I just don't care for any of you. I think we might have done this, but I can't remember? Can we just really quickly do it again? Five, your five best books in the world. Best books you've ever read. People keep asking this. What would I recommend for someone getting back into reading? That's easier because the best books I've ever read.

Okay, give us that. Like, yeah, kind of niche and specific. As I said this before, I think someone's taken our advice because I saw it on Instagram today. grown-ups by Marion Keyes is just a hug in a book. Oh yeah, you have. A little life will break your heart, but it's genuinely stunning. The Heart's Invisible Furies by John Boyne

similarly will break your heart. It's absolutely stunning. I mean, Fresh Waters for Flowers, I just read that. That was amazing. I wouldn't necessarily say it's the best book I've ever read, but it was really lovely. Oh, God, I'm going to panic. Oh, it starts with us by Colleen Hoover again, another one. You know what? I'm going to start doing it. Oh, my God. I see that everywhere. It's so good. I'm just going to speak. If I read a great book, I'm just going to start telling you in the podcast. I'm just going to start recommending them as I go. I think you should open a book Instagram. Oh my God, I want a book club

so I don't really know how they work. Maybe that's my new year's resolution. I think you should have a book Instagram. Okay, I'm going to look into this. Out. Yeah. Even worked out. Okay, tell me you're good. Tell me a bad. Tell me something. Em does books. M reads. M reads. I don't, I don't really have a specific good either. I have been obsessed with the traitors, obsessed, um, finish that and then, I'm now almost finished with the Australian version. If anyone wants to watch that, DM me and I'll send you a link from the UK, because it's quite hard to find, but, uh, I managed it. And I'm about to go on to the Dutch version. This is really annoying and I, I'm sorry to start the new year as we did the last one,

but I have to be sick now. So, um, go, go, go go be sick. Bye. You okay? Yep. Yeah, I'm so excited. 2023 does symbolise for me the end of the sickness. I mean, terrifying that I've got a baby coming in a matter of moments. But the sickness is going to stop, and I am fucking gas. My New Year's resolution, sick less. I mean, that's got to be, you're good.

Not yet, but it will be eventually. Oh, it will be the best good. Watch me, the week the baby's born. It'll be like, yeah, that's great, but there is no a little baby. down so sorry you're good oh hi bet she's come to join us girls girls chat yeah just general good i don't know i was trying to think about it in the shower like do i have a specific good i was like no it's just been quite nice really and quite nice to do absolutely no work literally nothing nothing i want to talk about your christmas present from dave that is that should be my bad you should be

how appalling yeah it should be that i have to get a divorce this year. But he has previous. This is not, for Christmas. Like, I wasn't as horrified as I should have been because I fully expected it off of him. It was in lockdown. It was my birthday in lockdown. Yeah, in 2020. My birthday in lockdown. And it was complete lockdown at the time. And I was miserable. Well, everyone was miserable. And I was like, oh, shit birthday, you know. But surely Dave's going to do something nice for me, you know, surely, something, anything at all. And I woke up on the day and I had no present and he said, sorry, it didn't come in time. A week later, my present arrives and it's a pair of running trainers. Running trainers. Tell me the last time I ever

went for a run. Do I run? No. Am I a runner? I've never seen you run. Do I need? Does I need a pair of running trainers? No. Would you have rathered a pair of running trainers or a bag of quavers? Probably a bag of quavers. A bag of quavers, yeah. And he was like, oh, but I noticed you didn't have any. So I thought I'd get you something you didn't have. And I was like, there's a reason I don't have any.

I don't want them. I don't need everything in the world, you know? There are things that I don't need because I don't need. I don't have a guitar because, you know, yeah. It's just things I don't have. Careful on that front. I'm careful on that front, because you've got a lot of stuff that you don't need. Give me a month.

I'd be like, I'm absolutely forbidden. Absolutely forbidden. I've got a guitar on, won't you? It's not mine. It's not mine. It's Alex's. Obviously, it's not mine.

I have a guitar, as if I have a guitar. Alex has a guitar. You can play his. Play his when you come over. Fine, done. Don't buy a guitar. Why didn't Dave bring a guitar? There's so many things that you don't need that he could have bought you that you would have loved.

honestly if he'd have bought me a guitar i would actually love that because like i can i mean i can't play asshole but like i can work a few things out on there and it's much easier to set up and start than the drums we could be bothered we could rewind rewind to literally january 22 and you saying about the drums yeah it's pretty easy you know i could i could put a few things together on the drums i think like literally the same thing drums i was completely out of my depth because i was like i don't know how to set the thing up i don't know what's called what i'm there are so many barriers to me learning. However, the guitar, like, I can already read music, so that's something. And, yeah, I don't know. I just, I want a guitar. Oh, fuck, I want a guitar. I really

want a guitar now. I've taught myself into it. I think he can buy you a guitar as a sorry for the quavers and the running trainers. I bet I could get one on like market Facebook place or something or like next door. What did you say? What did you call it? Market Facebook place. Facebook Marketplace. Have you got any New Year's resolutions? To continue to try to be less impulsive and have more patience. Because like it. In that case, don't go on Market Facebook place and buy a guitar.

Okay, yes. Good point. Very good point. Which is why I am employing my higher rational brain and going, no, Al. If you still need it in a month's time, then we can think again. I think I just need to, like, slow down and get some patience, you know? I would love it if you've got some patience this year. I would love it so much.

Because I spent my whole life, we've said this before, just terrified that you're just going to pull the plug one day. Just wake up in the morning, take a shit in the shower, and just say, I'm out. And there'll be nothing I can do to stop you. So I like the idea that you might sit on it for a couple of days. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I'm going to. Maybe like ease your nerves a bit. But yeah, even things that like we say we're going to do, right? And then I just do them straight away when actually a bit more planning and thinking would really help. 100%. We got lucky with the podcast, but as a general rule of thumb, we shouldn't go into everything like this.

But my thought is always like go into it, work out the consequences later. Actually, I don't even think about the consequences. So there you go. Anyway, what's yours? Well, I don't know. All my New Year's resolutions, I used to find this such a toxic time of year because it would always be like, I'm not going to eat, got to do this, like, going to train so much,

all of this. So I don't know. I find that idea of everything quite toxic. And then the last couple of years, I've wanted to be more organized. Cute. And it's been like a big thing the last couple of years

to try and like rid myself with like the diet culture shit, which to be honest, being in your eight months of pregnancy at this time is quite useful because there's genuinely no point of being like I'm going to go to diet like to what avail are you going to do that so like that's good but then also on the organisational front I'm like my world is about to be turned on its head so I sort of feel like whatever resolution I make is only going to last for January at the very top yeah I mean like and yeah yeah yeah I can't guarantee it'll last the

whole way through because I just feel like the day the baby comes or whatever are just everything will just be like what have I got a fucking file of fact so just be that out the window like not going to give a file of that not going to give a shit like all the things I do for organisational purposes are just going to be irrelevant yeah so I don't think I'm going to do one this year because I basically in my head I've got I want to really smash January like for the pot like for the I want to sort out the pod like me and you work it out and I just want to go really hard at that and I I'm not taking any maternity leave before the baby's born. I see what it feels like when I'm about to have a baby now. It's like, you know,

before you start a race or like the night before a marathon or like the night before an exam or whatever, it's so bad. And the night before and you're like, oh my God, and I don't know how I'm going to do and I'm going to be so down. I'm going to like I can't do this and whatever. But then when you actually get going, it's fine. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like if you leave me with nothing to do, I'm going to just catastrophize it. It's going to be a disaster. Yeah. Like work me until a drop. Love that. Okay. You're going to slow down. I'm going to speed up. But only for a month or two well only for a bit okay yeah

a month let's see how this works out for us I'm scared this sounds like a fucking disaster I know 100% it's like freaky Friday yeah excellent alright but yeah things are going to change and I think yeah and even now everything no pressure so different like you know I'm like some days like today I feel okay

yesterday like with the HG sickness like yesterday was so bad that I just couldn't yeah I can't function So, we're just going to... Yeah, no pressure. You don't need any pressure. Wardrobe, I want to sort of my wardrobe out as well, but that's, you know... Oh, what are you going to do?

Purge what I don't need with what's left, put together outfits, take pictures, have the pictures in folders on my phone, so that the night before, because I like to lay my clothes out the night before. So the night before, I can put everything out and be like, there you go, like a nice outfit, cool outfit. Have we not talked about this before? Oh, my God. That, I've never had anything like it in my life.

Why? Oh my God. That's like clueless. You remember when she's getting dressed in the morning and clueless and she's on her like PC. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. That's going to be you. There's an app called wearing W-H-E-R-I-N-J where you can, you can basically do that. You like log everything that you own and then you make outfits together with them and then like it stores little outfits for you. Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. That's so sad. When I'm talking about getting myself. organized, I'm literally like I'm going to go W8 Smith and get a file of facts. And when you talk about getting organized, it's going to be trying on everything you wear, taking photos of them, it's storing it in a folder in your phone. So if you always know what outfits to wear before you go anywhere. We don't understand how we're the same species. And in so many ways,

we're so similar. And then so many others, I'm like, that is horrible. If I turn that this, this camera right now, you'll just see my suitcase on the floor. Sad, sad thing. Sad. Oh, don't. I can't. I can't. I have no wardrobe here So I didn't know what to do Don't look at the wardrobe behind me That's full of Alex's shit Yeah I was gonna say

What's that right behind you I spot a wardrobe No it's full of all my mom's stuff From the 18 And then Alex has used the remaining stuff Because he says his shirts are more important And I'm inclined to agree Things have never ironed anything in my life

But like to make you feel better I am not organised because I That's my personality I'm organised because I feel like I have to be Like if I'm not Everything goes to shit Because I can't I'm not

I've bought, this is sad and like, I can't believe I'm admitting this. You know, like, just the normal things that people have to do, like wash your face, brush your teeth, take simproof, take my IVF tablets, take, like, do this, do that, those little things. I can't figure that out. So I've bought a whiteboard that I've put in the bathroom that says morning, what I have to do, evening, what I have to do, like write it all down. And I know that is so sad and I sound so stupid.

like if I don't have that, but like if when I've got that then, okay, I actually, I think, I love it. No, I'm, it's really sad. It's really sad. And whenever, whenever people come around, I have to like whip it away because it's obviously like mortifying. I've always wanted a whiteboard, but I've had nothing to put on it. So I'm actually kind of jealous that you've got all these things to put on there. I'm just happy for you. If I don't, I just wouldn't. You've got your five step, now seven step rule for when you get in the car and have to start driving. yes which i've also printed out and put in the car yes what to do when the engine goes what to do when i get in and what to do when i have to leave

because if i don't i like who of r a jones a printer and what they do with it and now i know it's me hi i'm the problem it's me oh my god you adorable out you know what i'm going to get why do it honestly i'm going to put on all those things on it and then you won't feel sister keep it on your own. We'll do it together. And I've also bought another one. I'm yet to write on it, but I'm putting it by the front door that says exactly like, when you come in, check the keys aren't in the door. When you leave, check door is locked. Check you've got keys. Check you've got. I mean, you're slightly

turning your house into a care home, but. Literally. Dave's just like, oh, it's sad. I remember when my brother had this accident and we were in the hospital for ages and like they always have a whiteboard on a patient's room. on the door and like his neighbor like they all had like little quirks about them and it was just like Alice next to him just as Alice loves toast and I was like oh cute and then I was also like watching getting to 19 that's all that anyone can say about you on the whiteboard and then it's just like Winifred no hot drinks and it's like oh it's cute lovely but that's what I'm envisaging we need

to just have for you now outside your room Alex needs patience okay well I mean we've chatted for like long enough new year's resolution yeah i'm going to get a whiteboard and have a baby and you're going to be less impulsive yeah there we go i swear that was i swear that was mine last year as well but here we go but yeah you're going to have a baby oh fuck and you're not going to get a guitar it's going to be huge yeah totally doing three it's our year baby let's go betty oh we've got such a good interview today the best the best start to the year the best person to start you off, the antidote to all the diet culture, weight loss, toxic bullshit that will have been filling your ears. And even if you haven't been seeing it, like, I know, I'm not seeing

this stuff on Instagram anymore because I'm in a total bubble, but I still have all that stuff in my head because I just did, I just do because that's how I grew up. I think this is going to be so valuable for just getting us all off. I'm just not getting us all off. This is going to get us all off. Happy New Year. Sarah's here. Don't get us all off. Well, it might get you off. She's very beautiful. So, yeah, I mean, I think I said this in the interview itself, but Sarah Nicole Landry, so she's known as the Bird's Papaya on Instagram, and she is an absolute breath of fresh air. She's so wonderful, like she just, she makes me feel like okay in myself, in all areas, not just like how I look, but in different areas.

And she really, like, she's mesmerizing to listen to, isn't she? Unbelievable. There was so, we know, and it was just like, whoa. I know. And just so many nuggets as well. And it was been difficult, actually, to make a trailer out, to make a video out of this for our Instagram because I was like, I want to include it all. I just want to include the whole interview. So I'm so glad that you're here to listen to this one. I think it's going to help everyone who's listening in some way or another. And we hope you love it. Here's Sarah Nicole Landry.

Yeah. I'm really excited for this. We are very excited to have you on. We go back quite away now, a few years. I know. I know. I interviewed you for my podcast a few years ago and you interviewed me for your podcast. Yes, that's right. Which everyone should go and check out. It's brilliant. You were like one of the first people that I was following to like publicly denounce diet culture and take your audience on this on your raw and vulnerable and incredibly. relatable journey from self-loathing really, right, to self-acceptance. I was a weight loss account. So people were coming into like my anti-diet culture new beginning in real time, which was, which was, I didn't even know there was like a whole movement about to come. It just sort of happened that way that I was like in my self-loathing and this self-loat thing was happening. So I don't know if I got lucky that I had all that support, but it was definitely

like the most raw. And I know that's kind of similar for you as well. Like we just sort of of did it out loud. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, my, my story was so similar to yours and I really resonate with so much of your content and it's helped me immeasurably. So, I mean, you know I'm a big fan. And you're also like such a champion of other creators and other women. But I am going to stop fan girling. Oh, I'm such a fan of you both. I'm so excited. And you guys have done such an incredible job at like championing the kind of conversations that are just needed to be happening. not like and a lot of like the psyche behind being a creator and like how much your creative thinking is also overthinking right and so I think it's exciting to sort of be able to come on and

and be introduced to this audience too which is awesome for me there is a lot of thinking on this podcast we think so much and it's very much like a quantity over quality thing as well yeah they're not good thoughts by any means but there are loads of them that's exactly it I mean think of like the most beautiful books you've ever read and the entire book isn't amazing. It's like single individual parts of it, right? And I think that's what's so fascinating about having the opportunity to sort of like talk in real time. This is why I love podcasts. They're, they're an unfiltered version. Sure, we can go afterwards and be like, please edit this out. But it's one of the few spaces where we get to speak and people aren't immediately responding. And they're not immediately

commenting afterwards and telling you how poorly a job you did of this or how you should have worded that a little better and you you spell this wrong or that wrong and it just causes this overthinking in the way that we present ourselves. I think podcasts are like this very raw version of humanity where we sort of get to and that's the good and a bad. Like for the most part I like being able to learn out loud a little bit too. Yeah. You're you're also right about podcasts actually and that's what em and I always say like this feels like a safe like more of a safe space to us than social media. Yeah. Yeah. It feels like you're just afforded more grace and more like leniency i don't know humanity that's the word yeah if we could go back quickly to your um

sure well it won't be quickly if we could go back to your journey with your body and we're saying we're saying the word journey right every time em and i say journey we say oh for lack of a better word or like i do we've got no other word so so journey we've got real beef with the word but we use it i know all the time yeah i you know so your self-hate to self-love journey as all of us here, no, that's a huge journey and it's big and it's long and there are a lot of points in between and there is just a lot in between and yet I feel like online we tend to not necessarily see that middle bit as much and we kind of tend to see the journey like oh I started here self-hate ended up here self-love and like all good wrapped up in a big old bow and I think I believe

to me that's kind of where you shine is in like depicting that middle ground, we wondered why it was important for you to represent that part of the journey as well to show, to show that middle bit. I'm so glad you touch on that because I think that that's where a lot of people feel like they're failing, right? We, if we go through life and we hate our bodies, which is sort of what we're taught to do, because that's a very marketable thing, we then go into like the self-love movement and we're like, okay, like I love myself, I love my body, and it leaves no, it just, for me, felt like I was failing at another thing. I felt like on one side, I was like, you know, I was losing all this weight and I was like

pretending to be happy and like I had more anxiety around my body than ever before. And then on the other side, I'm like, I love, I'm like trying to like be healthier, you know, shed sort of that diet culture. I'm like, I love myself. I love this. And I kept being like, why do I feel like I'm failing again? like I just felt like another thing I was failing at. I wasn't good at loving my body. I clearly wasn't great at hating my body. How the heck am I supposed to navigate this stuff? I think the reality

of the way that we've positioned love over the years, we really, really connected it to a feeling. And I think the more conversations we have, we have to teach people to disconnect the feeling of love, which is like a guttural sort of reaction that I identify them as like butterflies in the belly, way far, far, far away from the way that we view our bodies. There is going to be, there's going to be really rare moments that you're going to look at yourself and be like, ooh, butterflies, like, love it, love what I'm seeing, love what I'm like taking in, love how I look. The baseline is going to be chosen love. And that's a baseline for a lot of marriages. It's a baseline for a lot of parenthood. It's a baseline of love that is such an actionable choice. And I think that the more I've leaned

into self-love. It's been a detachment of the feeling and a leaning into the actions that he choose. I was born in 1984, which means I was a teenager in the late 90s and early 2000. So immediately everybody felt that. It was not a great time. It's so bizarre to say this. I was like a size 12 or 14 when I was like 12 or 14. And I was the biggest girl. Like I was the biggest of my friends. So I always just like really leaned on being funny. Like there's that song like funny fat friend and I like weep when I hear it because it really set me up for if my body isn't something I have to serve the world. I have to serve it in so many other ways, which meant I was incredibly agreeable to everybody else. I just constantly sponged everybody else's

opinions, did what everybody else wanted me of me. I was like very available to everybody. I never really talked back. I was the funny girl and I wrote on that as much as possible. And then I had three kids. I really sort of like not lost myself to motherhood, but I just definitely I got married young and there was a lot going on. By the time I was 25, I'm now married, living far away from home with three kids, trying to figure out who the F I am. And I remember moving home to my hometown and suddenly it was like seeing all those people I went to school with and feeling really uncomfortable in my body. And now I'm not only like at the time when I was 12 years old, a size 12, 14 was plus size. Then now I'm really plus size. And I was struggling.

I couldn't ever go shopping with my friends. I couldn't really go and do a lot of these things. the answer to me was if I'm going to finally love myself, I need to do something catastrophic to change the cycle that I'm in of feeling bad about myself, feeling bad about the way I look, feeling anxious to go out, not participating in things with my kids. So I immediately just went into like a very like rapid weight loss, um, to which I lost over 100 pounds. And that was the first time in almost a decade of my career that it got success. Like people were starting to pay attention to me. I was starting to, you know, people were like asking me for advice. And suddenly it was like I was getting all of this validation from people. But that was a hard thing to keep up

with because I couldn't keep getting thinner. So I didn't. And my health, my health issues were starting to pop up more and more and more. I've never been diagnosed. I can't really say it. But I think we can speculate that I had a pretty bad eating disorder. So, and I'd grown up around eating disorders. My sister's giving me permission to share this, but she had a really severe eating disorder for several years. And I was witness to that. So it was bizarre for me to even identify that this health journey I was on was somehow detrimental to my health, let alone an eating disorder. And so I remember when I did this like hard, hard turn, this pivot of my life to be like, I'm rock bottom. I'm now going through a divorce. I'm a single parent. I'm living at my parents'

house. I have more anxiety around my body than I ever have. I'm editing like every photo of myself possible that I put out there because I've built my success around my body. But I was going through therapy at the time and my therapist had asked me to start journaling my thoughts as a process to like stop being such a people pleaser, start to form my own opinions and figure out what life was about for me and what I really thought of it. And those captions started to become my photo captions and on Instagram and at a time, it was not a time where we had long captions or we explained ourselves. It was usually just an inspirational quote and a hot-ass photo. And so I was really trying to heal out loud. And it really lost all of my followers at the time, a lot of them, a huge majority

because I was no longer speaking on weight loss. And I was now speaking on the damages of what that had done to me and sort of like coming out of that. And I think I'll never really forget that middle ground. And I think that's why I speak to it so much because it's not just like jump from point A to point B, it's a lot of grit in between. So last year was a huge lesson in that because now I'm like five years out from, you know, stopping dieting and, you know, going through that journey. And then I got pregnant and had a baby. Well, if anything's going to pull you back into that arena of being at war of body monitoring and, you know, not feeling yourself and your body and like anxiety around it and clothes not fitting and all those like weird feelings that start to

pop up. It was then. So I remember doing like keynotes and people would be like, how are you doing? And I would just begin to weep. And I'm like, I'm, this is the hardest fight we fight. And I'm in it right now. Like I'm in real time right now. I'm in the middle ground where I'm redefining. I'm re-looking at the way I view what self-love is because I'm so, I'm so uncomfortable and I'm going through grief and I need to grieve out loud about my body and the changes I've gone through. And because I think I grieved instead of just sort of plastering on a smile and letting me be like, oh yeah, I love, I love my body for everything it's done, which I did. I also had to put grief somewhere. And because I was able to do that, I feel like that's why I'm in a better place today. And that's why I'm in

that constant limbo of body monitoring and like having those thoughts, but also having the tools to navigate it because I allowed myself to feel, to feel sad, to feel sadness, to feel grief. you can't spend 20 some odd years of your life being conditioned to think one thing about yourself and think that three years of self-love is going to change that journey. Like it's ongoing stuff and that's, I really like meeting people in the middle. I like meeting people who haven't necessarily figured it all out because that's why I feel like I am. I feel like I haven't figured it all out. I think it's really cool to hear you speak about the journey.

You're very like accepting of the fact that you're still on it. I guess my question is like how have you been able to contend, with doing this online because we know that like people particularly with women like to put them in one box and have it like one way and it's like she's better or she's not or she's problematic or she's not or she's whatever and we're not very good at allowing people to be like complex and complete human beings and you've kind of transformed yourself your outlook everything and your identity like I'm terrified of becoming a mum for the simple fact that I have no idea what it's going to mean for my identity because I'm just like oh my god like who am I and you have done all these

changes in terms of like your life's changed you've been married you've been divorced you've been a single mom now you're a new mom again and it's like but you've done this all online have people been forgiving have you felt supported have you felt pressure like how's it been basically being imperfect on the internet it's so it's the layer of motherhood is so interesting because it feels like the second you even conceive a child, it's no longer your baby or your main interest. It feels like the internet's. And the thing that I've had to remind myself over and over is like you are an expert of your own lived experience and your children. Like you're the one who's the expert. If there's one thing to know about me is if you're going to call me out for anything, like I'm the first person

to be like, tell me where I was wrong. I want to learn. I mean, announcing I was pregnant was hard for people. Being pregnant and being sick and talking about being sick was hard for people. When I came out with prenatal depression people were you know very confused about that you how could you have this successful life and this like beautiful family and you're depressed like people don't want to feel sad for you and that was the hardest all of sort of that pressure of like the internet opinion plus being sick plus i had pregnancy complications and just like all of like the overthinking that i was doing was a huge trigger into my prenatal depression so when she was born and a lot of that sort of left me and I now had this like little being in my arms I

kind of shifted where I'm like I have to be willing to know that I'm the one who is the expert in this arena here and that I have to also be very careful of like where does my mental health lie every single day on what I'm willing to talk about and what I'm not the past few years I've been real tough about that and a lot of people have had and there's been times where people like why aren't you talking about this subject? And I'm like, because I actually don't have the mental capacity for that subject. One thing that I really struggled with was everyone seemed to have like there was the right way to do it. Like there's the right way to like be a mom and give birth and all of this stuff. And I really had to reframe it of there are many right ways. And it's not the right way.

It's a right way. My right way might be different from somebody else's right way. There does seem to be this a subtle hierarchy between women and like how good of a parent they are, how good of a woman they are. And that comes in so many different forms. It comes in the language we use around birth, whether it was a natural birth or whether it was like a medicated birth or whether it was a C-section. Like the language we use around even birth is so damaging like it is. And I've really had to learn so much about that because I did have like quote unquote a natural. I had an unmedicated home birth. I was in the middle of a pandemic and a walk down.

And a lot of people were like, this made me feel bad about my experience. We really project a lot. And I had to learn really quickly what that's like now, what that's like in 2020, 2021, 2022, what that looks like to be a mother on the internet, to be a woman on the internet when we're all sort of like suddenly experts of everybody else's life. And yeah, it's been, but it's been tough. like I've second guessed myself on so many things and I can't even open my DMs without somebody making a comment about how my kid is walking or how she's talking or how, you know, are you doing

this? Are you doing that? And I'm like, I didn't even ask. Like this is, it's a whole Wild West and that's the reality of what it is to be a mother on social media now. There's a lot of things that make you feel bad. And we're already made to feel bad about pretty much everything in our entire lives, whether it's the way we work, the way we talk, the way we dress, the what our bodies look like our weight like and then now motherhood on top of that like these are so challenging and it just keeps putting you into smaller and smaller box so i felt like i shrunk myself down i feel like dieting is like restricting how you live right you you suddenly have to restrict that and i feel like the last few years i've dieted my personality i feel like i've restricted who i am because i'm so

afraid of what people will think about who i really am and i'm just slowly out of fear and out of of mental capacity, I'm just slowly starting to get her back again. That's really interesting actually, and I think that's something that both M and I can relate to. I find myself second-guessing absolutely everything that I say. I mean, the podcast is different. Like, as we said

before, like, we're able to talk more, it feels that we're able to talk more freely here, but like... Even still, we still worry. Oh, for sure. We still take stuff out all the time and, you know, texting you're in the middle of the night to say, shit, should we have said that? But yeah, but online, especially, I just, I, yeah, I overthink.

think absolutely everything people project so much like we like ultimately are just very selfish beings aren't we and then we just do tend to make everything about us so whatever you put online people will make about them despite the fact that it's absolutely nothing to do with them i think we police women in a way that like we've always policed their bodies and expected their bodies to be a certain way but we've also obviously expected their behavior to be a certain way And social media is very leveling in that, like, well, it's not even, it's unleveling in that women have the platforms and people can't bear it. Like, they can't.

It's like, where are the men? Like, we have to police each other because there's no men here to please us. So we're just going to like, we're going to do it. We're going to do what we think. Like, it's like fucking citizens arrest every time. And it's like, guys, come on. We need to do this. It's hard, though, too.

Like, realistically, like, even as a woman and being on the internet, there's a couple accounts that I was following, and I just, like, their content made me so mad. I was just like, oh, I just can't stand the way they talk. Like, how are you so blind to some of, like, the bigger things here? Like, I was just so annoyed all the time. And I was like, and I would talk to my one friend about it. And I'd be like, oh, I'm just like, did you see what they posted? And I'm just, and then I all of a sudden was like, this is mirroring something for me.

So I am muted her for a little while. And then eventually it was like, it makes no sense. if I'm not here to support this person for me to be here. And I think we forget, like, I've never, I've never slid in this person's DM and said anything. But, like, you think it's okay to, like, remove yourself from a room that you're not contributing positively to. But I just think it's important to say, like, I'm not beyond that because I definitely have had, in the last year, I've had negative thoughts about another creator and somebody that just really triggered emotions for me that I didn't need to feel. And the most loving thing I could have done was to step out of that room.

And so I think that we need to be better at monitoring when we see something that we don't like or a creator that is sort of like triggering feelings for us to not make it their problem. It's an us thing. We're allowed to walk away from that space. And I think the more conversations we have of that being supportive, I think we'll be better about it because it just keeps coming down to this over. Like you said, I'm like it's a policing of each other. And it's a policing of, I heard somebody once say, like you'll never agree with how others

choose to spend their time or their money and that's essentially what it was i'd be you get annoyed by how people are you know living their lives which we forget it has nothing to do with us at the end of the day and i think it's that like old school thing as well of like it's like you drag another woman down because it makes you feel better about yourself it's like a thing as old as time isn't it that it's just like it's easier to look for the floors than somebody else because it makes you feel better about yourself and like we are all guilty of that like I as as completely healed or like as healed or progressive as I think I am or like as far as I've come in myself love journey there's still stuff that triggers that in me it's so nice to hear like other people say it do you know what I mean

otherwise you feel like you yeah but it's how you act well again like if we're going to talk about like the the bridge between like bad to good when we're talking about our body's like also comes down to our humanity like we're not going to get it perfectly But if we don't have conversations like that, then it's going to be hard. And I always have to remind myself that this is not something that, like, I've placed here. This is another societal thing. It's a more patriarchal society of women hate each other. And we're just doing the job for them.

It is hard because we police ourselves. There's this whole Twitter thread, which I wish I could pull up right now, about how the age of social media right now is like apologizing first. Like we over-explain everything before we say it so that we're never hurting anybody's feelings. And we're trying to almost like explain the answers to the questions before they get asked because we're so terrified of, you know, getting it wrong or like missing that contextual piece. But I do think that it comes down to a lot of the structures of our society and the fact that typically, even statistically, if you're going to look at the boardroom

statistics and it's typically one woman to six men. And so we would pit it against each other our whole lives. It can be really hard to sort of look at each other and choose to champion that person and believe fully that that is not a threat to you. That hopefully that person is going to go forward in their career and hold the door open. Like that's what I, it's that I've always hoped to do. And when I find myself not being that person, that's a me thing. That's a, that's a pullback, have reflection kind of time. But I genuinely think that it, it's, it's a, It's something we need to be more honest about when we are struggling with jealousy. Being jealous is inherently bad. It's essentially a mirror showing you what you want. It's just like, hey,

this is something you want. You don't have it right now. This is, this is an emotion that's showing you something. And it's our responsibility to do something with that. It's not our responsibility to make it their problem. And I saw today a friend of mine was talking about how she bought a $500 dress. And I guess people were dragging her for buying a $500 dress. And she was like, you know, I used to live on food stamps. I used to you don't owe anybody that. You don't owe anybody that. You don't own explanation to why you bought a $500 dress. Elon Musk is not explaining why, like how much money he's just spent on Twitter or his tech. Men are bragging about it. Women are quietly doing things in the world and men are complaining about it. I did a podcast recently with this woman who is incredibly

wealthy. She's built a really amazing platform. Her name's Nicole Walters and we were doing a podcast together and she was like, I like making money because I know money is good with me. And I was like, what do you mean by that? She's like, I know that I do good with money. I make good money and I do good with that money. She's like, men are making a lot of money and they're not doing good with it. And I was like, ooh, that's new. That's new. I want to see more people that I support and I love making money doing well in this world because I trust that they're going to do good stuff with that money. They're going to change their communities even quietly. Like you said, I'm like we police the heck out of each other without any context because women don't celebrate their wins the

same way that like men do. I think it was Vivian Kay that said to me that men will get a touchdown in high school and talk about it for the rest of their lives and women are just like, oh yeah, like that's just a little nothing. Just shove it aside so nobody gets mad at me. It's so true and we're not encouraged to make money. This is the thing. It's like a badge of honor for men to make money and it's not expected of them to do anything with it. think, say, charitable with it or anything quote unquote good with it. Whereas for women, we're not encouraged to make money. It's something shameful. There's a lot more shame involved with us making money. And we have this expectation that we're going to do, you know, good things

with it, which is obviously like cool. And I, you know, like to think that, you know, people with money do do good things with it. But the expectation compared to that on a man is, yeah, it's not fair. You also don't have to do good things with your money. Like great, great if you can and great if you want to, but also just like, why is she got to give it away? Like, why she, why is she got to give it away where he doesn't have to give it away? Let it have it. Yeah. And she said, like, she was saying how she just, like, lives this, like, really beautiful life and she's really happy that she does. And, like, she's just not doing bad things with her money, essentially. Like, she's giving a lot of it away, but she also, like, has these three kids that she's giving a really beautiful

life, too, that she adopted. And I'm like, that's all really cool shit. Like, I'm really glad that you have money. I was a very jealous adolescent. Like, I was a very jealous person. I was very jealous when I met my husband and he had all these exes and I've talked about this before and one of them got mad at me for it. But I genuinely had to reprogram the way I looked at his exes because I was like constantly comparing my body to them, my life to them, like who they were to him, what experiences they had with him, all these things that happened before me. And he was like, you are only, you're only robbing yourself of your own experiences when you're comparing your experiences to somebody else's.

And that was an eye-opener in so many different ways because I was, to be honest, I fueled a lot of like my body hate and wanting to be thin based on the way that I saw some of his exes and the way that they looked compared to me. And I felt competitive that way. It was not something he projected, something that I did. I did that. But at the end of the day, I learned that all of these women of his past are part of who he is today. Like that's essentially it, right? We all are who we are now is a collection of the thoughts and teachings and things that we've learned along the way. And so instead of just constantly policing each other or comparing ourselves to these other people, letting ourselves like when we get that jealousy tingle, to be like,

this is mirroring something I really want. I look up to this person. How can I, how can I be more supportive, even if that means how can I remove myself from, you know, that like irritating hate follow or annoy follow you might be having? And, how do we start to channel like support in a different way? How do we reprogram the way that we think about other women? So we're not comparing and policing them, but that we're truly like you are collective of all your lived experiences and I'm a I'm a collective of all of mine and I don't want to compare to you. I want to learn. I want to learn and it's not easy. It's kind of hard. I think I just sound like a really supportive loving woman now and like I just wasn't always that way.

and I was just a very judgmental person and really jealous and for a lot of different things when I was like a young mom and instead of just like looking at the former version of myself and just like shaming the heck out of her being like she's somebody who didn't have the tools that you have now. So like I am collectively this person now because of who I was then too. I love that and I think it's really cool. I think it's really cool to talk about this because like we said so many of us have had the same feelings still do have the same feelings and talking about them or hearing someone else talk about them how they feel kind of just like drains the shame out out of it and really there is no shame in it and we talk about oh god

I always butcher this quote but like the first thought you have is the one that you've been conditioned to have and then the second thought you have is the one that you that's your choice yes yes it's your choice exactly and you get to challenge that initial thought and you get to challenge that mindset which is really cool kind of on this subject but a lot of what you talk about as well i mean i know it's not your main thing but like a lot of what you talk about is you advocate for women to show up but not being perfect and this is yeah with body uh you know self-acceptance and body image and also with motherhood as well and i think it was on your stories the other day you were talking about how

you were like you were giving your best you were like it might not be someone else's best but I'm giving like my best and it's like it's not it's not what others would deem perfection but it's my best we're wondering for you was it hard to get to that point for you are you like a perfectionist by nature and was that difficult to get to a point where you were like I am doing my best and I'm showing up and I'm and it's not perfect and that's okay yeah I'm a people pleaser for sure but I'm not so much a perfectionist, but I did definitely think that losing weight would be the way that I'd show up in this world because I definitely had this mentality that once you reach a certain destination, then you live your life more. And the reality wasn't that. So then it was

sort of a sit back and be like, okay, so we're constantly chasing the next thing. We're constantly, chasing this like weird goalposts and destination that like constantly moves. And so I think what happened for me, especially postpartum, was like, I'm uncomfortable in my body, but I only get one window of chance to be out in this life with this human and doing these things. And I really would get one go at a lot of this stuff. And nothing's really guaranteed. And I had to constantly remind, I still do it. I constantly remind myself of that. And just really giving, like showing up in who I was that day and that being my best. Like, it's not, it's not perfect.

It's nowhere near it. And I think because I was trying so hard to get it right to be able to go, like a big reason I wanted to lose weight was because I thought that that was going to be the way that I'd show up and do more with my kids. And I did in some senses, but the reality was I became more anxious to leave my house than ever before. And so I was body monitoring obsessively. So even when I was there, I wasn't there. And that's why I'm a huge advocate for like when everybody's like, just wear the bikini, like go. And I'm like, just wear whatever it is that's going to make you not body monitor that day,

not be obsessive. Sometimes it's like so liberating to like wear that bikini and like push through that barrier. But that doesn't leave a lot of room for people who are like having a day where their body monitoring and their thoughts are so, so, so loud that it makes the most sense for them to wear as much as possible so they can go and be present life is happening around you it's not like it's not this exterior thing that is like this preconditioned like this preliminary thing that we have to accomplish before we go and live our lives and so I think the last couple years just being so uncomfortable in my body and just being like this is a choice today like my confidence is like gone it's out of the way I'm so tired I'm so tired I've got four kids we're like doing a lot here and I'm

make this choice and it's always so fascinating to me when I look back and I get emotional about it because of course I'm going to get emotional about it now. My kids are like between 16 and one and because I sideline myself so much over the feelings around my body or myself and like the conditions that I thought I had to be in order to show up, I don't really get those shots again. So it's like forgiving myself not being there while actively having like opportunity now and I look at my youngest and I'm just like I don't it makes me sad because I can't fix it for the past but like I have to lead a life of least regret and that's sort of how I'm moving forward that's how I'm like making these choices and like choosing confidence because like the path

of least regret comes with showing up and that's for yourself that's for your children like be damned if anybody judges you you're not going to remember that shit you're going to remember the look on your kids' faces. You're going to remember the meals that you shared with people you love. You're going to remember being there. And I just want to be there. So a lot of times what I do is I when I'm having a really hard day, as I envision my 80 year old self, should I make it to 80? And I'm like, what story would she want to tell? And I don't want her story to be that she sat at home because I've done that and I don't really get that back. You don't really get that time of your life back. So like in the deepest of discomforts with my body or the way I felt about anything showing up was the best

I could do and that was my best. It wasn't, you know, anybody else's best. It was whatever version that was that day, but God damn, I'm going to be there. And that was sort of what has driven me the last couple of years as I've dealt with the grief of a changing body and a changing lifestyle as, you know, I've gone back into having a little one at home and after having all the freedom of having just teenagers so it's a it's a very complex feeling to to do but i think it's important that we start living and leading for a life with least regret not the not the path of least resistance but the path of least regret for what it's worth i think it must be amazing for your older kids to have watched you on this journey because the chance like they haven't been born into a perfect

world either yet and what you've taught them by doing it yourself is like how to make the tools for yourself and then how to use them and like they've got to watch you learn and they in turn get to learn as well and like that's the biggest gift ever because you know like I mean I'm sure I'm not a mum yet but every time I speak to mum they mum they just seem to have so much guilt about everything because like such is the like affliction but it's like it's like you're like it's like Like, you know, like, it's a, yeah, half of least regret, but also, like, it's not too late. I just feel like all of this stuff, you know, sometimes, yeah, we get DMs, like, I'll get DMs and someone like in their 50s and their 60s and they're like, oh, it's too late. It's like, why? For any of it.

Like, why? It's not. Because you're just showing the people around you what you can do or like what, you just do it. Fuck, like, fuck with people around you. You're just doing the best for you and like, and for your kids. Yeah. So I'm not too late. Yeah, you're so right. And, you know, I get to watch them sort of like show up and like reinvigorate their childhood a little bit through her, which is why I keep taking our asses back to Disney because I'm like, it's just I love seeing it. I also love doing something that like shows me why I work so hard where I'm like, look at us like be this family and like do these things. But it's like even that when I booked another Disney trip, I was like apologizing to people. And I was like, this is how I'm going to like save for the trip.

I'm like not we're not. I'm not getting Christmas presents like for. Spend your money, Sarah. it's like go spend your money like go everyone's like shut up there just go spend it it's yours don't worry yeah and it's just so funny but i'm gonna report any of your stories if i ever see you doing that i just like report it to instagram it's so true but you know when you when you've when you've been in the world of being a have not for a long time i think i just have a lot of empathy for people and like how it must make them feel sometimes i also remember what it was like to like be a state

home mom and like have three kids around and like watch people go on like wine tasting and stuff and I would just be like I hate everybody like I just why am I here and now I'm just very like everything goes everyone always does this to you they're always like it just goes by so fast like just hold on it goes by so fast and I used to resent that so much that people would be like it goes by so fast and I'd just be like yeah I'm ready for it too like are you looking at me I'm exhausted I'm ready for it to go by so fast what I don't think I was realizing they were saying it goes by so fast this isn't forever be here right now because tomorrow is going to come quicker than you expect it to and now i'm like having a baby that's like i literally gave birth to her yesterday and now she's about to turn two it's really terrifying to be like time goes by so

fast like it just is so wild like i have a my old it's going to be 17 like that blows my mind I'm like how it just gave birth to you my vagina's just healing how is this what is happening right so now i look at it with kinder eyes and with a softer heart because i'm like this shit is so hard and it is so temporary like it is so quick so in the game of which i call motherhood the game of catch and release i will release all shit that is bad and i'm going to catch as much good as i can but that takes me showing up as well that takes me like sort of uh doing as much as possible to be my best self which is just my version of the best self that day and and showing up as much as possible, because I swear to God, your kids do not give a shit if you

have cellulite or stretch marks. They'll give a shit if you are. I grew up with a, like my mother was quite large, always growing up. And I do not remember her for her body. I remember how much she loved me. And like, that's the legacy she's going to leave this world. That's the legacy I want to leave people, not how hot I was when I was 25, but how incredible I made people feel around me. or with me or just like the reality that I maybe allowed them to see right and so that's like a lot of where the guilt I have to let go of is just like that even within my own trying to show up and be my best self letting go of the versions that I maybe thought that I was going to be and just be the version that I am and how beautiful that is like I have to release the rest to catch everything

that is good and release the rest that's so nice I feel quite emotional I make people even laugh or cry and there's nothing in between. You said before about letting people show up, like, wearing, you know, not having to wear the bikini, like, if that's not what makes them comfortable and being able to just, and that's actually my favourite. I don't know why it hasn't clicked with me before, but it's like, it's my favorite thing that, like, anyone said on a podcast, like, that I've either listened to or recorded, because it's just like, it gives you so much more grace and permission to just, exist like I don't think I mean I like really resonate with what you're saying about

changing bodies we have a baby and I'm only at there I haven't even done the bit that apparently brutalizes the body if everyone on Instagram to be believed um like I've just found this like in and of itself like the change is really difficult like you say like I have also not had a great relationship with my body in the past so seeing all these changes has been really weird and sometimes when you're getting dressed and you have to like make an effort to feel like fucking stunning and you just have to like you know like curve like like be cool with everything and I'm just like like I'm so much happier at the moment and I haven't felt like this for years but it's also you've just given me a lot of permission there to just like

I feel so much better when I'm in a massive sweatshirt and leggings and that and I am better able to do everything when I am comfortable because you're not distracted you're not distracted You know, how many of us wore t-shirts swimming when we were teenagers, like all of us? And I love how I'm like razor-hand. No, but I think that a lot of people can say, and we use that now as like a, the old, the t-shirt wearing me would be so proud of me now. But you know what? I watch my teenage girls, like, or my son even, like, they'll wear t-shirts swimming.

And I'm like, good for them because they figured out what their boundary was that day, how much they wanted to show and how much they wanted to just like go and be present. And if wearing a t-shirt allowed them to do that, so be it. So I actually made a post once about the fact that like, if you want to wear the bikini, wear the bikini, but also don't let that make you feel like shit. If you want to wear like a full moo-mo, did you show up? That has to be the important part. Did you show up?

Because sometimes body thoughts are so loud that they will remove that ability to sort of focus outwardly on what's going on. And that comes down to like the way we dress. I find myself a lot more productive if I'm wearing separate. thing that I'm not thinking about my body as much in, which is why I think leggings, people will shit on them to the end. But I'm like, hey, they don't allow me to measure my body that day because they always fit. They don't allow me to feel my stomach when I sit down. They don't allow me a lot of, so on the days that I don't want a body monitor as much, or I don't have capacity for it,

leggings are a freaking God sent to me. And that's not me giving up. That's me finding where my boundary is for that individual moment. And like postpartum is the same. There was some. days where I would wear something really baggy and some days that I'd wear something really tight and I look the exact same in both times. But it came down to how I mentally was wearing that day and the reality of if I wear a certain thing, I will be distracted and I don't want my focus of this day to be my body. I want my focus to be everything else. And so this is the choice I make. And that's something that took me a lot of that sort of middle ground between safe and love to or like self-love and self-hate to really figure out that I was allowed and that it was still

loving and still body adoring to put on clothes that were concealing my body just as much as it was when I was wearing underwear on the internet. To round us out, are you able to speak to anyone who's listening who's struggling with their body image? Maybe someone who's in that middle bit like that we, you know, we spoke about at the top of the episode, that middle bit where they're on that journey, but it's very difficult. And they, you know, they have they are anti-diet culture but they still want to lose weight and they're finding it really difficult what would you if you could talk to them what would you what would you say i think i think what i think what i would like to say is that your first step has to be in unhinging your self-worth to

the sides of your body because you are going to change there's going to be a point in your life where your body's going to release weight there's going to be a points of your life where it's going to hold weight and that's going to change so the more that we remove the way that we can't feel about our bodies in relation to our size, the better off we're going to be. Now, that comes with a very big onion that we have to peel. So I think what's really important is to ask yourself the question, like, why does gaining weight make me scared? Okay, why is society, what is society told me will happen? Or what have I witnessed in society that happens to people who are larger? And why am I fearful of my relationship status based on my size or how much cellulite I have?

And I think the more you peel that onion, the angrier you get. And that anger is like such a cool tool because then you feel almost defiant in loving yourself and loving yourself in that choice to show up and to be there and to be present to sort of give the middle finger to what you have been conditioned to believe over and over and over again. And the more that we recognize that every single time we're thinking about our bodies, we're not thinking about something else, I think the women have could have ruled the world and saved everything if we had just not had to think about our body so much.

But because we have, it's going to take a little bit of unconditioning or a lot of it. And so as you sit in that middle ground, let yourself think about it. Don't shield yourself away or be shamed about having those types of negative thoughts, lean in hard and figure out where they're coming from. Because for me, figuring out the root causes of my fears was the freedom to be able to do something with that and to recognize that the reasons I have a lot of these feelings is not something that is inherently like those first thoughts second thoughts those aren't my thoughts my thoughts are I don't want to be so distracted by my body anymore I want to show up more I want to be more present I want to be remembered for these things and chipping away and peeling

back that onion was the only way to figure out the root and if we look at everything in life we look at addictions in every sort of form they never just come out of the blue There's a root to everything. So I think the more we stop treating things topically, I think when we body shame and we feel it, that's like the lowest hanging fruit of a tree. And I think we got to pick up our axes and go for the roots. I think we got to go all the way down.

We have to stop looking at it like I feel like shit about my body. How do I fix that? We need to look all the way deep down as to why and start unpealing those layers, start chipping away at that. And then suddenly you'll kind of find yourself in a place where you're like, I feel like crap about myself, but I also know why I do, and I know a little bit better how to navigate this today and figuring out what that means for you, because it's going to look different for each and every single one of us.

Stunning. Stunning. You guys are like that TikTok sound, stunning. I saw her in a coffee shop the day. Yes. Who? The girl that said, you know, they're all stunning. Like the audio.

Oh, stunning. Yeah. Oh, my God. I know. I know. And she was behind me. I didn't really see it. Well, I didn't notice her, but Ellie and my friend was like, oh my God. And that's her. And I was like, who's her? And she's like, stunning. I was like, stunning. Oh, my God. That's so funny. Thank you so much. Honestly, that was amazing. Thank you. I feel like we want a million different philosophical, like ways. And I love that.

That's how we roll. Thank you so much. No, thank you. Oh, stunning. Should I delete that is part of the ACAS creator network.