Should I Delete That? - Spotlight on Ukraine this Christmas

Episode Date: December 19, 2022

This week, in the run up to Christmas, Em and Al speak have decided to turn the spotlight onto Ukraine. With the war still raging on, the girls wanted to understand more about what was happening on the ground and what we can all do to help. First, they spoke to Ukrainian lawyer Nadiya Bilous who is on the board of Dattalion. Dattalion is an open-source database containing Ukraine war footage and a list of verified eyewitnesses to the invasion. Founded and run by women, it was created to fight disinformation. They then spoke to Liza, a musician who escaped Ukraine (and coincidentally lives with previous guest Lizzie Pickering in the UK) about the emotional impact of fleeing her home.Find out more and follow Dattalion's work here: https://dattalion.com/Check out the White Eagle AppealYou can find Liza's music on Spotify, Youtube and follow her on Instagram @slozaworldFollow us on Instagram @shouldideletethatEmail us at [e-mail] & edited by Daisy GrantMusic by Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Looking for your perfect place to call home, Lethbridgeland is shaping the future of our city with incredible communities like crossings, riverstone, and watermark. Each neighborhood is designed with innovation, passion, and responsibility to enrich your life today and strengthen Lethbridge for tomorrow. From vibrant urban hubs to serene, coolly views, there's a community waiting for you. Discover the lifestyle you've been dreaming of in a Lethbridgeland community.

Visit lethbridgeland.ca and take the first step towards your new home today. And we decided to go I was trying walls in walls in my flat and I talked to my flowers and I didn't want to leave They were thrown away from their beautiful garden and put into different garden and they need to put the roots there and that takes time and support. Hi everybody.

Happy Christmas week. Happy Christmas week. Shit, it is. Ooh, I know. Christmas has done as a fucking bad one by landing on a Sunday. Why? Because you just took my, like, when you, she's like, when are you coming home for Christmas?

And it's like, you know, you want to go in like, whatever. But because it's a normal working week You know, Friday, until Friday, 23rd Then Christmas Eve's on a Saturday, Christmas Day is on a Sunday So you don't when you get any time off for it Oh yeah You get the extra time off, it's just slotted into a weekend

I hadn't even, do you know what, I don't even know what day Christmas day is on, how bad is that And we're like almost there Sunday Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've just told you It's like a week away It's next week, it's this week Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not good out I haven't got any Christmas presents

And everybody's on strike And I've parked it, I've parked it. Do you know what Dave and I did? We're like, right, what we're going to do for Christmas? We're like, we don't, you know, let's keep it small. We'll set a 20 pound limit and let's do a random letter generator online to like come up with the letter of the present that you have to buy. So Dave got Q, lull, and I've got V. So that's fun.

So you've got to get him something for 10, for 20 pounds or left beginning with V. I actually bought him. him a little house plant called Vinnie. Okay, two things. First of all, I love the assuredness that you can say on this podcast what you've got Dave for Christmas and you just know he won't listen to it. Yeah, the element is surprised. It's still very much intact.

And B, you can't just like call the thing. Like, it has to, it's like playing I spy with a child. It's just like, like, I spy, like something beginning, like you have to, like, beginning with, how do you, oh my God, I was just like, what, how do you say why? And then I was like, yeah, yeah. I was like, what's yeah? Yeah. My brain, I was like, what's yeah?

Why? Like, it'd be like yellow boss, you know, when you actually mean bus. I mean, we didn't have to. You've just called it that. You've just called it at something beginning with V to make it fit your graderia. Smart. Whatever, whatever. I was proud of it.

I was proud of it. I mean, the only other thing I thought of before that was vagina, which obviously isn't like. You can gifrap your... Like, what begins with V? Vigina. I don't know. Like, what begins of V? So I thought

That was really good That's what he said Happy Christmas It's a raging hard on Oh wow Wow All right That should be in the trailer of this episode

Happy Christmas Is a raging hard on Okay Al Right Let's get into it Tell me Something good, something bad Something awkward

Pick. I mean, I think our goods are going to be the same. Oh, yeah. I mean, people are going to be bored of us banging on about it, but do we give a shit? No. Yeah. We had a really nice lunch on Monday. That's my gosh. No, just kidding. My more you were not good. I had so much pepper in it. Do you remember? Yours wasn't that good, but like, it was like a really weird taste to it. I know. You're like a mac and cheese and you're like, it's too peppery. And it was too something, but maybe it was pepper. I don't know. It just tasted really weird. Really weird. Anyway, that was not good. No, that was not the good. The good. The good. is that we had our live show. And people came! And people came. Oh my God. Oh my God.

I mean... We talked about it on the stage. So you've probably heard it. If you've listened to it, is it just me? But I cannot tell you the extent of the spiral that we went down before that day. I mean, that whole day. It was a bad, bad day.

It was a bad morning, wasn't it? Really bad, bad morning. Yeah, I honestly, I could have, like, if I could have reached you, I'd have slapped you just for your... Like, it was so doom and gloom. I was like, ow, please give me something. When you were like, I don't think I can make it. I was like, what do you mean? You don't think you can make it.

I was like, please just try. You were so defeated. Do you're like, no, there's no trade just can't make it. I was like, what? No. I said, I'm worried about how I'm going to make it. I was calling taxi, taxi because I was like, I was just calling taxis because I was like, can anyone get me in?

because I don't know how I'm going to go in there are no trains I don't have the car I was literally like can I come and get you oh my god it's so funny what a morning

I was minutes away from saying em you're going to have to come drive here and get me it was bad it was it was bad times I was just like no one's going to turn up like it's the first day of snow

in Britain like who's going to turn up you know like we are thrown into chaos with the slightest bit of snow and it was a good bit of snow and we had strikes oh my god what a day i still cannot believe that people can't and we were getting dms throughout the day being like hey can have a refund like hey can't make it because of the snow hey doesn't know what my tickets and we were just like stop stop oh my god stop it was

so bad we were like sitting in the venue like with the lights on just these messages just like people dropping like flies and then even my mom was going to bring her friend and I was a bit like oh like you don't have to bring your friend like I think mom was like trying to fill up fill up numbers at the beginning and I was like don't worry like we're actually oversubscribed and so I was kind of like whatever take or leave the friend and then mum wrong me and was just like so my friend can't come and I was like what even the people that I could have taken or left can't come I'm so upset honestly my heart every time like it was either my sister or Amy or someone from a management team would message to be like oh we've had another two dropouts and I was

like oh my god this is not big enough for this is so embarrassing it's going to be us sat on a stage with like three people at the very front and it's going to be dire bleak and when we went backstage beforehand it was just like the like our loved ones were coming and they were like there are people out there we were like count them count them how many people were there they were coming back literally with with head counts and we were like okay fine okay fine Okay, we can go out. Okay, fine. There's people, there's people.

It's fine. Yeah, that was absolutely, that was like, we absolutely catastrophized the shit out of that. But wouldn't have had it any other way. And it was super fun. And, yeah, I mean, a roller coaster. But I feel like the agony of the day, like, made the whole night even better. 100% agree. Because it was a relief to get there.

It was a relief to see people and bums on seats. It was such a relief. I thought my sisters weren't going to make it. they literally made it with like two minutes to go didn't they and they ran backstage and I was like oh my god I'm going to cry because I was just so happy to see them oh my god it was yeah it was and we're talking about backstage like it's like glamorous I mean there were numerous rats sharing that space with us

oh oh fully when we when we've got these like cool photos it was like sitting on the stairs I'm like we were sitting in rat rat shirt like no doubt it was sinister as shit originally you were getting your hair done and Jenny, manor to Jenny was like come on come come come come we have to go back you have to go like backstage now

and it was like okay okay cool and then we got in the room and it was literally like have you brought me here to kill me like I had no phone signal I was putting this from alone all my friends and found like everybody was outside in the warm room with my great playlist

and I was sitting and I was like why am I being punished what's happening and I have no signal to ask for anything there's no I'm Lou I was like what's happening it was a very odd space very odd jennavue my sister went to see you came back out and she was like pissing herself she was like it's so funny em's just like so confused like why am i here

what am i doing completely alone like one of the it looked like a prison cell i was like someone's been kept captive in here hand down there was also half a mannequin the bottom half of a mannequin yeah with a crop my mum got right in there did you see that when she walked in she was like oh look and really fondled the bits i was like why have you done this yeah she was like oh bits I was like, what are you doing? What's you doing? Put them down. Loll. Oh, it was such a fun day. It was such a fun day. So fun. Mom drew a dick on my suit. I had a sequenced suit and mum drew a knob on it just before we went out. She did. That was excellent. Oh, it was just so fun. We didn't show that on stage actually. We should have done that. Yeah. And then I just thought, oh God, anyone that has seen it just thinks it's a sad accident or an unfortunate coincidence.

Yeah, my sister came up on the stage and she told us her story. thought of God, she's so funny. I was just, oh my God. She's so funny. She's so funny. I texted her the next day and said, you, like the people expect you now. When we do a talk, which I'm putting out there, we are doing.

She is coming with us and she has to do like a bit, a story every single night because she was pretty. Luckily for us, she's the most awkward individual that's ever walked the earth. So she's got loads of those stories. And because she's Jen Zian has like three, three jobs rather than one. she just she works so like chill she just like yeah she just like three just like three jobs that's so cool yeah so she she shifts all shifts so um yeah she'll come she'll be free she's she's amazing she's always available and obviously we split the live show into two halves so this Thursday you will hear em and i singing a song and i it was really bad just teaser spoiler alert tuning

It was really bad. It was so long. So long. So long. We should have practiced it. Like when we planned it, we should have practiced it. We didn't practice. We planned it.

We didn't practice. No. Or we practiced like little bits. We didn't put it all. We didn't do a full run through, which we definitely should have done. Because if we'd have done a full run through, we'd have been like, this is horribly long. We need to not do it.

It's like five and a half minutes. It's not good. It's not good. Oh, dude. Oh, dear. Oh, but screeching. Oh, well. It's happened now. You live and you learn, you know?

I've learnt nothing. Well, yeah, I just short a song next year. Or no song. Actually, no song's a good option. Okay, moving on from the live show. Okay. I've looked at my list of the week, and it's just been an incredibly bad and awkward week.

Love that. Awkwardly bad, actually, is probably how I'd describe it. I love that. Not like super bad, just like, so many awkwards. I'm going to start with one of them. um last saturday i went christmas shopping and i was excited to go christmas shopping and i was like i'll wear a cute little outfit because dressing for this stage of pregnancy is a lot so i was trying to look because i just look like i'm in a tent i just look i just look suspicious i'm if i'm honest at the

moment because it's like it looks like i've got something under my coat basically i just look suspicious i look like i've stolen something anyway um so i was trying to look nice and i put on what i thought there was a cute little dress with some tights and a shirt. Okay. And yeah, all good, pretty. And I put it, I did a little fit check on Instagram, you know, it's just like where you press record and then you just step backwards and you're like, oh, here's my little outfit, doing it and then spin and then go back to the camera.

I did that and I got so many DMs asking me where my long top was from because so many people wanted a long top to wear during pregnancy with their leggings. I was like, oh my God, no, it's not a long top, it's a dress. It's an entire day. So I spent all day being like, oh my God, my shirt's so, my dress, my dress is so short. Everyone thinks it's a long top. And you were out, so it was too late. It was way too late, and I couldn't enjoy my day, and I spent all day just like pulling my stupid dress down.

And then I made this go home. I was like, I can't do this. I'm so uncomfortable. Oh, bless you. And as I just kept getting these DMs through going, where's this long top from? I'm going to stop calling it a long top. It's a dress. I was really upset.

I was really upset. So I'm not going to wear that again. Nothing worse than being uncomfortable in your outfit, especially when you get confirmation, continuous confirmation throughout the day, that you should be uncomfortable in your outfit. 100%. Yeah, 100%.

It was confirmed to me that I, because you say it to your husband, you know, you get like, oh, do I look, do I look again? No, you look great. You look so nice. No, it's lovely. And then it's like, well, you're clearly lying. I have multiple sources here that say you're lying.

The thing is, it doesn't serve him when you're out and there's nothing you can do. It doesn't serve him to say, actually, this is more of a long top, the address, M. Sad, sad, sad, sad, sad. So it's one of my awkwards. Come back for a couple more after you've, you've, you've. Said something. Well, okay, so I have, I also have two awkwards. Okay.

Number one, little one that I just remembered as we were talking. And it's about the live show. So just before we went on, you, basically, we were sat in these chairs and then we had these microphones in front of us and they were really close to our faces, these microphones. And the sound guy said, make sure the microphones are about an inch from your face, right? That is so close. So close to our faces. So close.

They were very large and looming and there. Anyway, you obviously in your condition have a very large bump. And it was very difficult for you to like sit down in your chair. Slip into the gap. I'm not saying graceful anymore. Yeah, like navigate around the microphone. It was difficult. You were worried about it.

Understandably. So I was like, okay, so when we go on stage, I'm going to like help you sit down and make sure you're sitting before I sit down. Loll. And I'm like trying to be all good. Like come on yet, trying to move the microphone a bit and I'm going to put it back in its place, fine. And as you sit down,

I've got this wire ring that says Betty on it and it gets stuck on everything, like famously, stuck on everything, like constantly in my hair on my clothes, it's always stuck. And you've had this really sleek, slicked back pony tail. And as you were sitting down, something happened and my ring,

like got completely stuck in your hair and it like brought out a big chunk of your hair and I was like oh my god I feel so bad it was so awkward we didn't acknowledge it because we were a bit nervous so we just sort of sat down and then all the fucking photos I've just got this massive clump of hair sticking out on one side

I'm so sorry so grinned so like that's the most assed thing ever we're like oh god it's so awkward why didn't we acknowledge it as well we just like fuck it It's because we were nervous. It's like I just rip half my hair out.

Oh, I'm so sorry. Oh, my other awkward, like, it's quite bad. And there's going to be like a visual for this as well. So I did a, I made a real things that shouldn't be, things that don't belong on your plate this Christmas, right? And it was like a series of different, thank you very much. It's a series of different types of food, like typical Christmas food. And I'd put, like, letters on them that said, like, either guilt or shame or, like, restrictions are, like, things that shouldn't belong on your plate, right?

And then, so I was doing one with the whipped cream, right? I was doing one with, like, a hot chocolate and whipped cream, and I'd put, like, I'd printed out a bit of paper, and I'd put guilt on sparkly letters on them, and I'd put the guilt on the top of the whipped cream. But I was like, if the whipped cream melts, the whipped cream is going to melt into the chocolate, and it's not going to give me enough. photo time so I'm just going to fill a cup with whipped cream I know I'm a fraud so I filled the cup also out it's minus five degrees outside I don't think the whipped cream's going to melt but that's something but into the hot chocolate you know I thought like oh if it's this hot chocolate in there it's going to melt so rather than have hot chocolate I'm with you in the cup loads of cream instead the whole thing just cream cup like a popuccino like a puppuccino so I did that and then I was like

I think it would look really cool out in the snow. So if I go into the garden and I can take a picture, you know, I can take a video of it in the garden like over the snow. How cute. How Christmasy. Perfect. Yeah. So I went outside and walk. And it's the fourth day of snow.

It was the fourth day of snow. So the snow has kind of melted. It's quite icy. So I walked, I walked outside, put my shoes on. I actually put Dave's flip flops on. Like it's the flip flops that he uses with Betty outside in the garden. and put those flipflops on. Obviously, they're like a size 11.

They're far too big for me, a size 6. But anyway, put those flip flops on. I'm a fucking idiot. Walked outside and I had to like walk through the ice to get to proper snow. And when I stepped, literally as soon as I stepped on the ice with these massive, stupid, big sliders, big, like clown sliders. And the first step I took on the ice, I flew. I slid, I flew, I went flyers.

I did a proper, like, cartoon, like, slip and you fall on your back, and the cup went into the air, and then I was full of whipped cream. Whip cream all over me. Oh, my God, please tell me you have a rain camera on your back garden. I don't. I don't. Oh, no. I know. It would have been the best thing in the world.

And I just turn around, Betty's just staring at me like, what did you just do? You fucking idiot. Are you? Unrescue me. Send me back. Unrescue me. You're a fucking disgrace. She will take any opportunity to be in the garden. She loves the garden. Like, she's obsessed with the garden. But she like stood at the door, just looked at me and it turned around and went back inside. And I was like, I don't blame you. Fair fucks. How embarrassing. Oh my God, are you on your own? I was completely on my own, apart from Betty.

Oh, my God. That's what? And I couldn't even, like, I didn't find it funny for ages because I was like, I was really shocked at what had happened. And I was like, I was like, I could have laughed. I didn't find it funny. I was like, I could have smashed my teeth with the cup. I could have broken my coxics. I could have been out there left to get hypothermia because God knows when Dave was going to get home. If I couldn't move, it took me a while to be able to laugh about it.

But I'm there now. I'm also really sore. They've got bruises. Yes. No. My ass is like black. So. Oh my God.

Thank you. That's my Christmas present. I couldn't be happier with it. I know you love a good falling. I just love a fall. Yeah. Once I got over it, I was like, I can't wait to tell them this. Yeah, there is.

And you know, I'm going to dine off on that for years. Like, I just love it. I just, when I'm sad, I just have to close my eyes and just picture somebody forward. Even if I've just made it up, it's still funny. It's so, so sick. I know, and the worst part, the funniest part about that whole thing that you've just told me is the fact that then you were lying there, not being able to find it funny, concerned that you would smash your teeth in.

Why is that so much funnier to me? Like, there's something actually wrong with me. I remember seeing a little old woman, and this is where it came from, I remember seeing a little old woman fall, fall on Oxford Street. when, I know, and she had a basket full of oranges and they went fucking everywhere. An adult that I was with laughed for such a long time. I think that was my earliest memory of like, disaster.

I was like, it's funny. Oh my God, that's like, moulded your, like, side. I don't know, you're like... It's molded who I am. It's like, it changed your brain chemistry. Yeah, there we go, yeah. I just, I love it. I just love it. I can also, the good news is I can also laugh at myself

at my own missought to you. um but yeah my other bad and awkward last night i did a reading in a church for the eve peel it was the eve appeal christmas carol and i did a reading with my mum and as you know i'm really not well at the moment like i'm very sick so i didn't even know if i was going to make it did make it pulled myself to go i've been in bed all day put my contact lenses in went and as i sat down in the church i was like something's wrong no with my eye, with my right eye. And I didn't know if my contact lens had fallen out

or if it was in wrong or whatever, but I was literally blind. And I was doing, I was trying to read the hymn before me and my mum were doing the reading or the Carol. And I was literally, I was like, I can't, it was so little time of Bethlehem and I was like, I am going off memory here because my eyes are not working. And I had to get up at a very smart, very busy church

to read a reading I did not know off by heart. I had only, my mum had printed it off for me. haven't even done a run through yet, because my mum kept being like, do you want to do a practice? And I was like, no, it's all right, I'll do it on the night. She was like, it is the night. That's one of the dead quote. Anyway, but I was like, no, I didn't just practice it. I didn't just practice it. I'll be fine. And then I got up there and I was like, I can't read. And I literally was holding this piece of paper like two centimeters to my face. And I had to say sorry, like three times. And my mom was looking at me like, what is happening?

I just couldn't read. Oh, no. It was really bad. And I was like, I need to just, I need to scoot my own eyeball out. I've been never promised my contacts all week. It's been a weird one. I genuinely think I've got like such dehydration in my body from throwing up so much that my eyeballs are too dry. Oh, did your mom have to take over? Well, no. She'd already done her bit.

She did the first half. I did the second half. And I just had to like say sorry like three times. And then this really nice guy came up to me after him. And he was like, oh, bless you. You were so nervous. I would be as well. And I was like, I don't want to be a knob, but I really wasn't nervous.

I just just called so. Oh, God. Oh, and I bet it was like a contrast as well, because I bet your mum's like so good at reading. Oh, she's, obviously she's good at reading. Smashed it, smashed it. And then you, sorry excuse for a reader. Sorry, yeah, literally just kept being like, oh God, sorry.

Sorry, sorry. Sorry. Oh, God. It's embarrassing. Embarrassing. Did anyone film it? No, thank God. Oh, fuck so.

I know. I normally, I would, under normal circumstances, have been disappointed not to have a nice video moment, memory moment. of my mum and I being festive. This one can die. This one, 100% we can eradicate this one from everybody's memory. I have another all good and bad.

Sorry, okay, everyone, I just went and had a little sick because that's my life now. That is what I was very scared was going to happen in the church last night whilst I was reading about the miracle conception and birth of baby Jesus in the manger.

Jesus, the Bible is hard to read. I'm just going to say that. And it wasn't just hard to read because I had a problem with the contact lens. Like, just old English. Anyway, just very confusing. I feel like I could have made it more succinct. Anyway, I was scared I was going to be sick in the pews.

But what just, I just went and was sick in the loo there and orange juice sick went all up the wall. So that was a whole. That was bad. I feel so bad for you. It's so, oh my God, it's just so grim, isn't it? Oh, I feel so bad for me. Yeah.

I'm feeling a bit sorry for myself this week. Yeah, I feel bad. moaning about it though you know you're not moaning it's not moaning though it's not moaning like this is really bleak you are so sick you're allowed to talk about it it's not moaning you are allowed to talk about it and tell people what's going on it's not moaning yeah i don't know i mean this isn't like normal i think i'm a bit scared i don't want to be like all doom and gleam about pregnancy because obviously it's something that you chose and something that you're really lucky to have and whatever i just didn't know it was going to be like this and i wouldn't know it wouldn't

have changed anything like I'd still do it again do you know what I mean but like it's just yeah I had a massive cry to my mommy essay being like I just feel like I'm failing like I just this isn't what I thought pregnancy was gonna be like it's not you being doom and gloom or like being ungrateful like at all this is like this is the most magical thing and it's brilliant and it's like the best thing ever and I know that you know that and you feel that as well but also at the same time it can also exist that you're really fucking sick and physically you're not having a good time at all and therefore like mentally it's impacting you as well like it doesn't I know like you I know that we all know that it's going to be an amazing thing at the end of this but at

this at the same time you're it's not good right now what's happening to you and I feel and like I think everyone can have sympathy for you for that for sure like it's I know you're not asking for sympathy, I know that, but I don't think you have to worry about, you know, thinking that you're moaning or you're being like doom and gloom or that you're being negative about it. Like, God, you're allowed to be. Like, you're so sick. I'm a bit sick of being sick. I can't bet, like, if I have a stomach bug and I am, and I have nausea for like even for like four hours, it's like the world's ended. Like, I can't bear it. Like, I can have flu. I can have a fever. I can have anything. But like sickness, any kind of sickness or nausea is

so horrible so like I can't even imagine this past like however many months it's been a lot it's been a lot see I don't mind being sick in my own house I really feel like I've got that down like it's okay like what's just happened there like super quick very efficient not fucking about like absolutely fine with that I can get on with my day it's fine but Jesus you know that selfie I sent you when I went to the hospital the night and then I sent you a photo of myself being sick in a public loo yeah that's horrible that is horrible like because I couldn't see the loo from that angle, because I sent you, Loll, I just was texting Al from the loo. And it was only when I saw the photo back, I saw how dirty the loo was. And I was like, oh my God. Like, I honestly, I'm getting

to the point now, like, it happened as well, like at the pub on Sunday. I was like, I'm about to lose this roast. And I had to send Georgie to the loo. I was like, can you just go and tell me how clean the loo is? Because I would sooner go and just do it in a poo bag on the street, then go to another filthy loo because it just makes you feel so dirty when you're out to be like on your like it's so undignified and like yeah hospital lose are all right but because they're pretty clean but like oh god some of the places and obviously you get the looks when you're in like a pub people think you're too drunk or like you know that you might be something that you're not very well and I'm just like oh god so when I'm at home I don't really mind it but when I'm out I'm like

this is a lot this is this is a bullshit I mean like going for a we in a public toilet is not fun. Never mind going from sick. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a lot. That's horrible. I just feel very dirty all the time.

Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Like you just can't get clean. Yeah. Ew. Ew. Oh well.

Not long to go. Not long to go. Not long to go. Anyway, do you have anything bad? Anything awkward? We've got your awkward. You fell. Yeah.

Do you know what? No bad. It's just too awkward. That's good. My third tiny awkward was that the other day, Alex thought I was going for a hug, but I was actually just putting my crocs on. And then he was sitting in this really sad voice. He was like, you would put your crocs on, weren't you?

I was like, yeah. It's just even more awkward than it's crocs. Like, not my shoes, my crocs. My crocs. I was just slipping them on. Like, I was just stepping into them. And he had his arms out like this. Like, oh, she's coming in.

for a hug. It's like, no, no, she's coming in to warm her feet up. She's coming in for a feet hug. Lovely. Alex, how embarrassing. Sad, sad, sad. How embarrassing. Speaking of Alex, though, Alex facilitated this episode for us.

As part of his work, he's been working with a group called Detalian, which is an organization based out of Ukraine. That's objective is to share. real footage from inside Ukraine with the world's media. And it's been an organisation that has been largely run by women during this time. So at the beginning of the Ukrainian war, many women fled to the borders with their children, left their children somewhere safe and then went back to go and sort of work as reporters for this Greek, Italian. And they're still going to this day.

they have a huge database of images and what they're doing is really, really, really important. And so we decided to do an episode with one of their members. She's called Nadia. After we spoke to Nadia, we then decided, actually we wanted this to be maybe a little bit of a wider conversation.

So we got in touch with a woman called Liza who actually lives with Lizzie Pickering, one of our previous guests. She's from the Grief Equals Love episode. And Liza is living with Lizzie. Liza and her husband left Ukraine just after the war started. And so we wanted to speak to Liza to get an understanding of what the situation was like

before leaving and how it felt to leave. And yeah, it was really interesting. and heartbreaking to speak to Liza. But also, we wanted to give a mention as well to the White Eagle Appeal, who we wanted to speak to for this podcast, but timings just didn't add up, but we wanted to talk about them anyway.

In truth, there was some good news because there was a guest we were supposed to be speaking to from the White Eagle Club, a Ukrainian man called Vlad, who had to cancel the morning of the interview because his wife went into labour. So we thought, you know what, as excuses go, It's a good one. It's pretty stunning. It's a good one. Yeah. Yeah. You can't really beat that. But we did want to talk to them as well because and like spotlight their work because it's been amazing what they've done since February. So they are now the largest community base humanitarian aid donation and delivery operation in the UK. And it was born out of the White Eagle Club, which is a Polish community centre in Ballum. And now it's grown massive.

and it's a huge scale operation. And they're dispatching up to five HGVs a day, sending out aid to Ukraine. So we will also put the link in the show notes for them as well, so you can check them out as well as the Italian. And also, Liza is a musician, and we talked to her about her music in the interview, and you'll have actually heard Liza's music in the intro.

That was what was playing as the episode started, which is really cool. So, yeah, it's an episode that we're really proud of. and we're excited for you to listen. And yeah, thanks for being with us. Oh, Lisa, thank you so much for coming to talk to us today. Very last minute, and we've not prepped you or given you any context for anything. But this has been, this is such a lovely connection.

Lizzie Pickering, who's a friend of the podcast and a very old family friend of mine, is where you're, you are in her house. I did not formulate that sentence properly. But you have been staying with her, and you're now in her son's bedroom. And it's the most recognizable bedroom in the world, because Cam is an artist, specialising in graffiti. And I don't know anybody else whose bedroom would look like that. But thank you so much for taking the time to come and talk to us. And I guess what would be a great place to start, if you wouldn't mind, is telling us a little bit how you ended up in Lizzie's house.

And your story so far that led you to Oxfordshire. Okay, so I would say that it's a beautiful chain of coincidences because I started my travel on 25th of February and it feels a bit like I'm still always traveling even when I'm here. And so I lived Kiev in 25th of February and then in one month I arrived to London and I made a decision to come to England because my brother, my younger brother, he lives here in London for the last six years.

And so I kind of like know this place, kind of a bit know London. I studied there for songwriting a few years ago. So when we came to this moment when we should make a decision where to go, to leave Ukraine, another country, like where to go, we decided to go to go to England because it was kind of like a bit familiar more than other countries and other cities. And so I arrived to London and I stayed at my brothers and he played in a punk band called Power Plant. And they played together with Cam. So when Lizzie applied for this scheme, homes for Ukrainians, she asked Cam.

And Cam asked Theo, my brother, like, do you know any Ukrainians who needs a place where to stay and while this time I was in London looking for a place where to live I was kind of lost I didn't have any idea like what to do next where to go I try to find the flood it's not it was not so easy there and yeah I ended up here and it was just like we didn't know each other before with Lizzie and we just had a WhatsApp call and she was like yeah you can come anytime and you can stay it was it was weird but this is best place to live through this event now for me because it's so peaceful here it's all nature

it's so quiet it's very beautiful place and i'm very lucky to be under lizzie's wings because she takes care that's really nice lovely lizzie we just love her so much yeah love her i know why she's amazing and so where is the rest of so your brother's in london yeah um But where is the rest of your family then? My family, still in Ukraine. They decided not to leave. They decided to stay closer to their parents. So my grandparents, my parents are there.

And they keep going, running some business, some stuff. It's incredible, actually, how people, they continue to live their life there. Was it an automatic decision for you that you had to leave? Yeah, I had kind of feeling that. I would be more helpful if I could continue doing my things, for example, like making music and so on. But first of all, yeah, it was a decision of saving my mental health too, because it's like when you're living for so long under constant, like, idea of danger, you know, it's like blimming light in your head all the time, like danger, danger is everything.

So I decided to leave and it's sometimes you know it's feeling like do I regret should they come back? Should I stay here? Because it's kind of a bit hard not to lost connection because I definitely kind of lost connection with what's going on there because I'm not there and it's so different the moment I arrived to London was so weird to see like the world is different because I just arrived from the place where everyone was like under one sphere of emotions and feelings you know it was so weird like to arrive to another place and now to live in the world knowing that there is different worlds exist you know in the same time and this is amazing because it it helps you to stay sane and to believe in the future and you know to see all of this beautiful people around who cares and and the The world is beautiful.

So, I mean, like, I always constantly think about my family who stayed in Ukraine. But I'm trying not think about it too much because it's like I can't do anything about it. I can't help and it's so fearful. And this is what breaks my heart when I'm trying to learn how to live with this. Are you comfortable talking about leaving Ukraine? I think that every time when I talk about it, I feel different. I mean, even yesterday I watched animation movie house. It's beautiful, beautiful animation movie and it was about home somehow.

Definitely this kind of things they trigger me and you know like, it's home because I should left my home. We decided to left the home, me and my husband. On the second day of the war, we woke up and we were like, okay, we should, we should. we should leave because we didn't know what was going on. It's constant uncertainty and fear. And after the first day, when the war started and when we heard the siren for the first time, I could say I've never been that scared before in my life.

I've never felt that kind of thing of like animal fear of death. because it's like and you don't know like from where should it come will it come now or a minute later you don't know and so the next day we decided to leave Kiev because it was fear in the air that if Russian army will go further they they want to take Kiev so it was dangerous to stay there we packed our things a night before we just headed in our head like what if we should leave let's let's pack something it was surreal too because first of all you have your bag with all of your stuff like clothing and it was during the winter so we should take like warm clothing but then you have to have another backpack with stuff like paper napkins your first ad kit passport all the documents with the telephone numbers of your family and your type of blood written on the paper in your passport in the case, like if something will happen to you, so they can find out, like, I don't know, who to connect with or your blood type. So it's like you should have your backpack

with all of this stuff will help you to survive for a few days. So even some food, trousers, socks, another little back with, yeah, as I said, all of the documents, some money and the most important things because you have to be aware of that maybe you have you will have to drop your stuff you know it's like and you have to be the lightest version of yourself as possible so it was weird well i mean it wasn't weird it was just i don't know how to compare this feeling with something else so we packed our stuff and we decided to go i was crying it was it was very hard i was touching walls in my flat and I talked to my flowers

and I didn't want to leave. I didn't want to left all of these little things because they kind of represented me, my life. I really loved the place and all of this stuff from travels and family pictures and books and so many things that you think that they matter to you. But I took one bedding with me from home.

just in case we don't know where we will sleep and, you know, to have something from home. We jumped into the car and our car was in the parking in the house where we leave. It's very high building. And during this air raid alarms, people, they use these parking as like shelters. So we just went there into the parking, jumped into the car and people around. It was so crowded this place. they were just looking at us like where are you going and we're like we're just living just leaving and we went out of the house and decided to go further from

Kiev to another city to meet my parents they were in Zaporizia in the different city when the war started and the morning we decided to go that decided to leave the city too and to go to the closest to the Rumunia or Moldova or Hungarian borders, you know, to the safe part of Ukraine, kind of safe. So then we left Kiev and we stayed in, I stayed in kind of 14 different bedrooms until I arrived here. So, you know, it was like constant change of places. Wow, 14 different bedrooms. That's crazy. It was a lot. It was a lot.

But I would say that I always meet nice people around who helps. For example, when we decided to leave, we didn't know where to go. We decided to go to Chernivzzi. And there was a man, the friend of my father, who helped us to find a place where to live for the next few weeks or a few months. Because it was very hard to find something to rent. because people they were just running from one part of Ukraine to another

and they were just impossible to rent something prices were very high and so many people they were just looking for where to live So did you stop renting your flat in Kiev? Did you or do you It was mine so and the flat is still there

and luckily sometimes we have a chance to ask someone to water, flowers and to feed fish. Because there's fish in the flat. Yeah. So, and yeah, and the other very hard thing was when I decided to live the country. The closest airport was in Romania. So I woke up in the morning, took my bag, jumped into the car, all my family.

They took me to borders. you just have to cross the border and you know that it's your country and there is a war there is the border and there is no war you know it's crazy and you see it

it's just like it's not even a wall you know it's it's just like 100 meters from you this was crazy yeah very hard bright king to be honest and you

you crossed the border with your parents yeah they ordered because they You said that they're still there, but did they leave with you, or are they still in Zaporisia now? No, they still live in Zaporasia. They get back because there is a house, there is a home, so they just, you know, help me. So they took you to the border and then went back again? Yeah.

Oh, that must have been really tough to say goodbye. Yeah, it's like you don't know where you will see them again. And also, I mean, like, it's so big, this feeling, and it's so deep, and it's so deep, and it's so, it's hard I mean like it's heavy so I feel like sometimes that I still I still process a lot of things so I didn't even realize that deep what were going on as I understand it now like it was insane so it's kind of like you help yourself with trying not to think about it sometimes yeah it's a lot to process and a lot to take in and I guess it's still an uncertain situation with, I mean, you not knowing, I guess, I imagine when you're going to go back or if you're going to go back and that must be quite difficult to like, you know, day to day to live with the uncertainty.

I mean, like, when I talk to my friends who stayed there, they are living their lives, for example, in Kiev, in theaters, there are sold out in some concerts, you know, people. so many beautiful people so they are kind of live every day of their life because they don't know what will happen next and yeah there is no electricity and after 10 o'clock or something like that I mean like it's dark city at night so definitely there is no like night clubbing or stuff but I mean like people they still living and they maybe understood how important it is to live every minute of your life but it's what you have after this kind of experience when someone when one morning you are like wow from this moment of my life anytime

it can just be over and it's it's it can be depressing so people they make they start new projects so many Ukrainian music is going on now because people they want to say what they feel, what they think, they want to sing in Ukrainian, which is like the huge empowerment, I would say, of Ukrainian language, of you like super Ukrainian culture now. People are gathering and they making movies, they launching, they are launching brands of clothing with some Ukrainian symbols. They sell it and with this money they help to army or they help to some other volunteer organizations and so on.

So crazy things are going on. Lots of love, lots of life, that close to this fear. And it's very frightful there. It's super dangerous, but people are so strong now. They are so strong there. It's just incredible. It makes me cry when I think about it. How brave they are, just living.

their life there this is amazing very inspiring just you're talking there about like how Ukrainian art and music and language is becoming so important as a kind of unifying

act of solidarity among the Ukrainian people and that's something that you're doing now in the UK and that's with your performance it would be really great to hear about that and the significance and the significance and the importance

and the importance of why you're doing what you're doing through your art at the moment? Thank you very much for this question. So before the war started, we were nearly finished an album, me and Alex, we work on music together. We planned to release an album of very kind of like life, love sex and magic, R&B songs and it was very cool. But the war started and it was, 100% irrelevant to the time and to our feelings, what we would like to say about it.

So we took our equipment with us, microphone, computers, sound guitars. And we were making music all the way through since we left the home. And we released one EP with Ukrainian songs and some old songs. Now, it's a completely different thing. This is amazing that I have this option and I have this beautiful opportunity and I'm here in a safe place so I can tell about what's going on in my life through my perspective

and through my vision of Ukrainian culture too. Because, for example, yesterday I sang, a few Christmas songs on the Christmas market in Cheapy Norton. And so I decided to make a few very Ukrainian things. And to be honest, it wasn't the part of my family tradition. Because I'm from industrial part of Ukraine, which is not very about Ukrainian super folk things. It's industrial post-Soviet heritage.

and it's not about flutes and Ukrainian Carpathian mountains. So I felt that making this Ukrainian fall songs, it was very interesting, but it was a bit like not really my thing because there are so many beautiful folk artists who can represent this part of Ukrainian culture and they just dedicate their life to this folk thing. But I felt it in my own way, from this other part of Ukraine.

So this performance on which I work on now, it's about 10 songs about what's going on. I mean, it's about fear, it's about love, it's about pride. And between these songs, there are going to be spoken words, visual art, poetry, and storytelling. It's kind of like my diary. I'm very lucky again to be here with Lizzie because she introduced me to so many of her friends and she tells me a lot about English culture so she kind of introduced me to what's going on

around because it's different every time anyway I feel like the culture is different you know and this is amazing so I can see this diversity and I can learn so much from the place where I am and put it into the music. So yeah, I learn a lot. It's all in progress. Nice. And this is a very big question. But what do you hope for for the future?

I would say that now, future is more like a day-to-day thing, which is amazing because living in a moment in present time just gives me so much of this time, actually. but in the future yeah I think I think I answered you I mean globally yes sure I'd love to see the world in peace and I mean in the future

actually yeah it's like our all of us our prayer every day and every minute to stop this horror as soon as possible so this would be the greatest scenario but I mean like who knows when it will happen But I just think about this Ukrainian army who makes it possible to leave our day-to-day life now.

They are real heroes and I wish the best future for them and to stay safe and to get back home to their families. And this all should stop as soon as possible, yeah. Thank you so much for sharing that with us, Lisa. Nadia, thank you so much for joining us today. We have, well, we're meeting for the first time today, but you've been in communication with my husband. You've been working together a little bit. over the last few months.

And we're really honoured that you could come and talk to us today about yourself, your situation and the really important work that you're doing. We've introed you already prior to recording this and already told our listeners quite how impressive you are as a lawyer. But we would love it if you wouldn't mind in your own words, introducing us to who you are, what your life was like before you left Ukraine, and what you do now. Hello, I am and Alex and look, it's been really, really awesome, you know, and before the Christmas

especially awesome, you know, because I think we all are looking for some kind of miracles before the Christmas and we are looking for some kind of magic and, you know, and for different people the magic could look differently. So I'm very happy, you know, to add my kind of, a little bit of magic to those who will be listening to us. So my name is Nadia Bilouz. I'm Ukrainian. I am very proud Ukrainian, to be honest. And I think the many people before who were representing themselves as Ukrainian,

spreading around the world, we're not as proud as we are today. I think this is something that is definitely changing, you know, within us. so I am an international lawyer I've always been in the legal profession I was doing legal executive roles for the big international companies I am a public affairs executive

I was heading a big department I was board member for the Fortune 500 company back in Ukraine I was managing 12 countries from Ukraine managing there the legal external affairs public affairs, public policy, security. So my whole life was very busy with my professional life.

But on top, I was a very, how to say, active member of my social network, social life. So in two words, my life was beautiful in Kiev. I was in Kiev. Kiev is a beautiful city to be with a wonderful architecture, is a very old ancient city but also with a great food with a great social event so i was always interested in fashion and business in psychology in theaters in you know arts and and the city was giving me all of that so so if to cart you know the long story into the very quick one so the the beautiful life we had had to stop at some point of

of time. And I think this is something that we have to move on since February. And you're not in Kiev anymore. You're, you're, are you currently in Spain or are you in the UK? I am currently in Spain. Yeah. Can you tell us what happened then? Why you, I mean, why you left Kiev and why you're in Spain now? Yeah. Well, my story is a little bit different, I guess, to the many other people who left the country after the war. I left just before. I didn't know it's not because I had super insights or anything. So my story is simple.

I left for the one week of holidays to Spain. And that's the story. So I came with the, you know, sports shoes and a few track pants to Spain. and I did not return back home. So I learned about the whole thing started when I was here in Spain. But my whole family, as you could imagine, is back in Ukraine. So I don't even know this is better or worse, to be honest. It cannot be judged.

What I've learned over the last period of my life, you know, that I was very judgmental before that. I used to jump into conclusions based on what people say, what people think. Because I'm a lawyer, I am learned to make judgments, you know, on different occasions. I stopped doing that very, very honestly. Because looking at the person, the way person looks or the way person talks, you have no idea what's there behind. You have no idea what the person just learned.

or what just happened to her, him or their family, what they have just been through, you know. And this all changing very much the perception of your life and the values. The values are being reviewed. So you're in Spain still, it's now December, you came in February. Yeah. How is your, how are you living?

Like how, what does your life look like? now. It must just be, I mean, you must be kind of settling into some kind of routine and normal or no, or not maybe. Look, I, okay, it's a, it's a new strange life in a new strange world. Okay. It's a very strange understanding of home and the definition of home has changed. The definition, because my home will always be where my family is. This is the, this is. This is the, is the thing. It is most importantly that kids are suffering a lot because they don't get what they used to. They don't get their friends. They don't get their natural atmosphere. We love winter.

We are skiers. We don't have winter here. We don't have snow here. My kids are asking for snow. We are not sure that we will see snow. They want to go back to Ukraine. And it, you know, I think this is something that may sound very strange, but I meet many people and they tell me, you know, you must be lucky. You are not in Ukraine now. You're sitting, you know, in Spain, you're talking, you know, about your new life. You must be lucky. And this is yes and no. I can be, you know, very honest because I think that you are talking honestly with your guests. And I think we can open up hearts here. And I think that. this is very strange, you know, because I never wanted to move out of my country. I never was

dreaming to, you know, to start new life somewhere. I was very happy where I was. And it might sound very strange because you're now in Spain. So, you know, Spain is much more developed and it's a long-standing democracy. Well, you know, you were born. I was born in the Soviet Union. So by that time, the Spain was flourishing or other European countries. But I think Ukraine has been so many times now on the first pages of newspapers. But in the end of the day, we don't understand what Ukraine was about and the way we passed. And I was happy to be the part of the way because Ukraine is a very progressive Eastern European country. I can tell you now after living, you know, about anything.

months in the EU country and on many occasions you know it was it was very nice it was very nice life so to start all over again it's tough to start all over again in profession is very tough in my profession is tougher than than anything else because lawyers are usually local driven people we are trained to within the legal systems of the particular environments. But look, what choice do we have? We have the choice to move on. We have the choice to keep up. We have the choice to stay brave, open up. I have not been this flexible in my life. I can tell you this. I was very picky. I was in terms of the job I would like to do in terms of the people I would like to speak. And I am extremely flexible. My life has been turned around,

but it opened from the different perspectives to me. And I think, and I'm thankful for what I have. Thankfulness is another thing that came to me very recently. You know, being thankful is another big achievement. Being thankful is another big talent that we usually not ignore, but we usually don't dedicate enough time to, you know. Yeah, and I mean, like he's. said, you know, like on one hand, yes, lucky, but on another hand, it's so unlucky, you know,

you've had to leave your home and leave your country. And for, it's been 10 months now, that you have uprooted your lives and your homes. Like, that's very, very difficult. Yeah, that must be just extremely hard, especially with, you know, children as well. That's really, really difficult. Can we ask you what the current status of life is? on the ground in Ukraine now and how you are keeping in contact with everyone that is still there. Is it quite difficult or is it been okay? No, it's very difficult. In Ukraine, it's very difficult. I think I don't even have my social networks here in Spain. I, you know, I recognized just recently that I don't follow anyone here because it's as if your body is physically here

but your mind is not here. I am still, you know, the quite active person in my social networks, but it's all connected with Ukraine only. I don't even post anything about Spain because it's just simply the physical being, not the mental being. So Ukraine, I believe, requires lots and lots of support ongoing and unstoppable. And it just seems from the first side that because it's not, You know, the world championship is there.

The other problems are there. The other, you know, developments. The life is going on like it should be. But it doesn't mean that life back there is back to normal. It's far, far from being normal. On Monday, about 70 rockets have been flowing to Ukraine. About 60 of them has been hit by our, you know, anti-rocketed system. But still, there were some severe challenges and some of the rockets fall into the critical infrastructure.

The people are without electricity. I have not seen my dad for a year now, almost a year. And I cannot even talk to him at times, you know, because he doesn't have network or connection or both. So I'll just sit and wait. And this is, that's why I'm there. You know, I don't know how to explain this. It seems that it's so peachy and flowery around it. Why bother, enjoy life, go for a walk, have some air?

And I keep talking to me exactly the same words. But mentally, it's very difficult to split your life into here and now and to there because you are there. So, no, Ukrainian life is, I think the Ukrainians are the bravest people I've ever met. And I wasn't sure that if we talked January last year or this year, I would say exactly the same. Because Ukrainians are different like everybody. I mean, there are different people with different views. We are big nations.

We are about 40 million people. We are different. But I think the way we are united now into helping each other And from here, from Spain, we are, you know, packing gifts, for example, for kids in the, who left without care, for example, and sending sweets and something, every little helps. There are no little things anymore. Something that you would think, oh, come on, I would just send, you know,

10 bucks or 10 pounds to them. And it's, it's now, oh, ho. Oh, 10 pounds can make a difference. Speaking of the work that you're doing and the support that you are able to provide from different places to Ukraine, it would be great to talk to you about Detalian and how you are involved with it. Something we love about it is that it's female-led, which is just remarkable. It's kind of a different way of fighting in a way.

I guess we've never really seen anything like that before. And so as well as hearing about Detalian, it would be amazing to. to hear why feminism you think might be important at a time like this in Ukraine? My goodness, you know, it's changed so much recently. You know, we've always been talking in Ukraine about the women empowerment. I have, honestly, I have been creating, you know, the women, not clubs, but learning centers, hubs, you know, and learning my girls and teaching my girls in legal profession, etc. But then it became obvious that, you know, men were busy with the other stuff.

What can we do as women? And I think beyond taking care of the families, beyond taking care of kids, beyond sheltering, you know, we now keep saying, if you shelter one kid, you already are doing a super great job. because the other thing that women keep thinking that we are not doing enough that we can do more we are here, we are in a warm place wherever we are still in a warmer place that majority of the men are out there

so what can we do more what can we share more that's how the talent was created and the talent was created by wonderful girls ladies who were in the previous lives You know, we are the top officials and top managers of the big international companies. But they sat together and thought, okay, there was no enough photos and videos from the places at the very first days of wars.

Not all international informational companies were there at the very beginning because, yeah, the embassies were not there. embassies were calling their people to leave Ukraine in about three, four weeks before the war because of the different alert systems they had in the embassies. So you would not have there anyone at the very beginning. So I

think a few days after the beginning of war, girls sat down and said okay, what do we have? What do we have? Do we have somebody on the ground? Do we have Ukrainian photographers, reporters, who is there? Let's capture what we have. And I think that's a fantastic idea.

on capturing these bank of memories because what we don't want is after the war the memory to be erased or forgotten or missed and this chronography of war which is happening due to you know the photos and videos

and the footage keeping and now working with the witnesses the girls and boys who are talking about what they've been surviving through and talking with you on a camera is a super important bit.

So I joined the project in May and I'm doing the advocacy, meaning that we are trying to talk to the think tanks of this world to the most influential people who are deciding on the future of the world, actually, and the Europe, who are designing their speeches in order to help Ukraine to survive and keep on, understanding that Ukrainian, is fighting not only for herself for the country but it's actually the gate to the at least European security architecture system you know and this is why we are thinking that spreading the truth and we have it captured together these truths for every day if you go on our side you will see that every day is kept in the separate folders so you can see what was happening

throughout the whole every day of war. And we are sitting now, what, 42 weeks of war. Yeah. And beside that, you know, the women that are talking, one of our founders is currently in London. She is talking on all of the possible forums, female forums, you know, women gatherings, asking for support not only to the Tellion,

because the Teller needs a support helping out, our volunteers who are working with them who are working with us free of charge but they need to survive but also talking about the wider audience of female of women who are on the top of their careers who are on decision-making chairs and all ukrainians really need is accepting us and standing with us and supporting us in cultural support in jobs in education and educating our kids and helping our kids, you know, finding their place in the new system because they were not prepared to. They were never discussed in the family that, you know, from the year 2022, you will now be in

system A, in grammar school in London or in boarding school and somewhere. They were thrown away from their beautiful garden and put into different gardens. and they need to put the roots there. And that takes time and support. It's a huge, huge life shift. It's, yeah. I wondered if you could possibly explain to us what the women on the front line are doing in Ukraine,

you know, in terms of like bringing children back to safety across the borders and capturing the visual information as well. Could you explain a bit about what those women are doing? So differently, differently now and the first days of war, of course, because in the very beginning, you had to take care of yourself and your kids, yeah, and to save them from the bombs. Then what I particularly learned that you're also taking care of your families, taking care of your teams, if you're in charge of the team. So what do you do if you cannot talk, you know, I could not talk for a week. I honestly could not talk. You know, the words

literally could not come out of your mouth. You know, you kind of try to do words, but the sound doesn't go away. And it's a very kind of strange feeling. I was always managing very big teams, and suddenly, you know, I could not talk. And my learning from that was, you know, that it is okay. It is okay not to be okay. That's okay if you're not okay. It's okay to talk to your kids that you're not okay, you know? Because I think that this visual effect of women who are always know what to do, we always have to know what to do, we always know how to support others, we always know how to support our kids, but there are times when we don't. You know, and I think at the front line what happened from the beginning we all tried to save us and our children

first of all put them to the safer places but then lots of businesses are coming back lots of are coming back under the severe circumstances with no electricity you know with the blackouts you would be surprised to see my favorite restaurants in the kids are opened under the candles. I have no idea how they prepare food. Majority of these restaurants are women-led. Yeah, they are back. They are doing your croissons.

I have no idea how they do it, you know, but they do it for you to be able to come and to have that croissant in the candle whilst, you know, it's a totally black city. So I think the strength is something that we can nurture and develop with a time, I guess. From what we've seen of the media coverage of the war and from what you're describing,

although the men are still physically fighting enough, the men are fighting age are fighting the war, there are so many women, as always happens in conflict, holding up everything else, you know, know, the family life, the home life, every bit of stability that you can, has it felt sort of like that division for you? Is it felt that clear cut really? Have you felt very like connected with the women? I suppose, you know, they always talk about like the band of brothers for men who fight together. Have you felt that with the women that you've worked with in this time?

Yeah, yeah, very much, very much. And it feels like, you know, we've always kind of, you're always you know being standing with each other you know but here is like you're not standing with each other but you're like hugging each other and you know you're standing like shoulder by shoulder not to fall and it feels like if you move a few inches to the right or to the left that you will fall or somebody will fall and you cannot allow that you know you better be keeping up and and it's not only in in ukraine I have to be very honest that I am, you know, as talking to you, I am talking as our founders of the teleon. They are talking in a massive amount of, you know, women, mostly women outside of Ukraine. And I found it surprising to me two things.

One is how much the world is open. It's much more open that we always thought than I always thought. It's much more open. When people are opening up their houses, you guys are opening up your houses, you know, accepting totally unknown people as part of your families. Isn't it something amazing that has never happened in the world before? Like accepting people to live with you in one house, with the programs, with the kids, joining your kids for the parties you have never seen before, you know?

But the other thing is, is able to. to help in the longer term, with education, for example, with work, with scholarships, et cetera, et cetera, with helping out the tele on and keeping us surviving. Because for volunteers, it's tough to survive, you know. Yeah, I can't imagine what you've been through and continue to go through. And I don't know if you have, you know, we'd love to hear a story of someone who is still living there, you know, maybe one of your family members that are still there and for us to fully understand how life has been impacted

and just how they're coping, I suppose, now. Well, the whole majority of the Tellerun team is there on the ground. They are majority girls and ladies and our communication team is there. They are doing, for example, at the moment, we are talking with the new witnesses, we are doing videos with them, doing footage with them, and we are doing this within the very small periods of time when electricity is on. Yeah, so now you have not the only agree time which is suitable to you to. This has to be time which is suitable between the graphs of the shutting down the electricity between the place you live and between the place I

live so that we find this 30 minutes and we better be good looking because we probably would be freezing before that than having two jackets on so that we finally have a quick cup of tea or coffee and quickly talking and that's how the work looks now what is the situation like with electricity there now then how often are they actually able to access electricity well in kiev it's it's tough because in Kiev, the electricity, they are coming back. They are renovating what they can. Of course, they are working days and nights on renovating. But one period of time, I think the mayor announced about a week ago

that about 60% of electricity cables were damaged. So the work, sufficient work, outstanding work needed to be done for Kiev to get back to light. So it was one major blackout for the 36 hours in Kiev, in some instances, in some instances, a little bit less. Depends on the building, depends on the side of the Nipur River. But it was very tough. I could not get to my family. We could not get to our Deleon family members because Italian is a family.

It's kind of family, you know. Yeah, for about 38 to 40 hours. It was pretty scary. I think it's depending, you know, on my family. Monday we had another head that was near Kiev, so that damaged another line, but people are working to restore it. So at this point of time, I'm not, I don't know, you know, percentage-wise, but it's a big percentage, about 600,000 people on Monday were without electricity in Kiev. Do you have any sense of when you might be able to step foot back

in Ukraine at all? Oh, that's such a good question. You know, the two most difficult questions to me are, were you based and when are you going back? Sorry. No, that's fine. But that's okay to ask. I'm just saying, you know, that these are really, really tough. How to say, I cannot project. I'm not, even though I've been very much involved with this security before. and I was having pretty good insights from the different embassies and how they are building their security alerts around Ukraine. I would say that I would hope that by spring this should be finalized, okay, because Ukraine already started to think about the recovery.

And in London, every other day there is a forum dedicated to recovery of Ukraine. rebuilding efficient structure, reinvesting, et cetera, et cetera. And this is exactly what should be done. I'm a big fan. I'm Ukrainian. I had number of occasions to stay out of the country. I was studying in the States, working abroad, et cetera. I could leave forever.

But I always chose to stay in Ukraine, and it was my conscious choice. As many, many other people who are willing on their skis. if there is a click you know we go back I would hope yeah that by spring something sufficient happens and we're all happy to

be back my personal I I'm not pretending to be super brave I'm not pretending to be super you know straight forward I would be very honest I hate to see my kids under bombs and grabbing them

and going to the shelters because I think that the mental state of our kids is super important because these are the guys who will rebuild Ukraine and they need to be mentally stable and psychologically stable. But I respect every decision of every person who decided to stay or to leave. As I said, you know, the judgments are here left far, far behind. This is why you can never say what's the best. better choice. The better choice is one that you made for your child and that's it, period. Can I ask about how your kids are doing mentally and you don't have to answer this if you don't want to because obviously it's really personal. But like you say, it's an incredibly

traumatizing thing for them. However, this had played out, if they'd have stayed, they'd have been in danger and obviously that as a mother is just unthinkable. But then you did have to uproot their whole lives. Are they okay? Are they aware of what going on to an extent and can you talk about it on an emotional level? Of course, of course. My kids are pretty, how to say, my older daughter is 17, so she is very well aware. She is part of the fundraising dinner. She is part of the meetings.

She is in boarding school in the UK and she was there for a number of years. So it's not because of war she went there. But because of war, she cannot return home. her returning home was always kind of holiday when you're on a boarding school and you're returning home where majority of your friends still are here because she was growing on in Kiev up to 15 years old. So her social life is all there apart from the school. And she is suffering a lot without not having a possibility to go.

One of the reasons I cannot go to Kiev, I would be very honest, because I promised her that we will go together. And I cannot go without her. I cannot break that promise. And at the moment, I'm not ready to bring her to Kiev. That's why I cannot go because we have a deal. But she asks every time yesterday we talked and she's coming for holidays now for vacations to Spain. And she is not happy.

She is not happy. She is happy. She will be safe. but she is not happy because that's not. She says, I don't feel this is home. I don't feel, I have my fair tree for her, but it's not real because there is no snow. And she's going to have, you know, no snow New Year.

And that's for her very strange because in Ukraine, we always go to Carpathians on the New Year. That's our family tradition for many, many, many years. The whole family is gathered in one. spot and we will not be there you know nor my sister will not be there etc so it's it's a tough it's a tough period my younger boy is 11 and it's difficult very difficult for him very difficult for him both from the friends point of view he misses friends but he also misses the atmosphere I don't know how to explain this.

You could be in the best school in the world, but your conscious decision or unconscious decision is super important how you enter this, the best school in the world, you know? And because he feels that it's kind of not his decision, but he kind of was made to go, it drives him crazy. We keep talking about this, you know,

we keep discussing this. And he says, and after the first, occasion he's very well supported etc but if we have a possibility can we please go back and of course we talk about it they take care because they they still people kids are much more connected and they discuss it openly and he cares but the the class of 15 people where he was studying in the school they are all over the world from singapore canada us you know, Europe, Ukraine, spread. There is not a single person left in the same class. The whole class of 15 people were spread all over. Tough, really difficult. For everyone listening today,

how can they help people on the ground in Ukraine? What is the best possible course of action to be able to directly help people in Ukraine at the moment? Okay, I would state two or three major points. You are very open and embracing. Please keep up on being open and embracing. You have lots of people, boys and girls, women, men sometimes who are doing their job and trying to do their job best inside Ukraine and outside if Ukraine. If you happen to stand by, invite, you know, these women and women.

and kids to your assemblies, associations. Give them a little bit a hand, a word, a speaking opportunity, a listening to them opportunity. This is very, very important. If you're of the top managers' positions roles or owners of business, usually we are well educated well learned experienced language speaking people give us jobs give us the possibility to work and help out our country we are submitting some financial help to Ukraine by finding new sources of income this is really really tough this is something

that is very important in keeping up lots of women outside on different schemes, are looking for jobs, are having issues with finding relevant jobs, and therefore, you know, issues with finding Ukrainian family back home. And please keep up with the teleon. Please help us to survive. Please help us.

Not to survive, survive is a big word, but help us doing what we are doing. I think this is super important and what the teleon is doing. This is super important on keeping up informing people of what is really happening on the ground. And, you know, we cannot, we are not competing with information agencies. We keep our work done every single day.

If everything happens, if you go on the talo on Facebook or LinkedIn or Instagram, any other, Twitter, et cetera, you would see that we keep up, you know, spreading the truth. And this is our tool by fighting. disinformation and manipulation of information that is happening all around us. Fake news are like new normal almost, you know. So the more truth is there, the less room for untruth is there. So we will share a link.

And if you're happy to help us financially for our volunteers to keep doing the work, please do so. This is very relevant. So with helping the Talian is the best. thing that we can do or listeners can do is donate financially. Is there anything else that people can do to get involved to help? Yeah, please talk, please share us, please talk to us, please send us the request if you need information. We are very open. We are free aggregated database, very open if you need, if you're writing an article, or if you're doing a movie,

or you're thinking about the book, or if you're looking for people from whom you would like to hear the story. So you need the inspirational speakers for your schools or, you know, universities. Talk to us, Detailon has it all. We'll happily share with you, you know, all we have. We will leave the link to the Italian, the website and socials, both in the show notes and we'll share them on the Should I Delete that Instagram page as well, of course. Super.

I think that is awesome. But on top of that, keep standing with us. You know, I think this is super important and this discussion that we are having today, it seems like another discussion in the role of your guests, but it's not the same. You know, your specific interest and engagement with the people like me, which represents, I am the one drop in the big ocean of 40 million people, but that every drop is super important. There are no more left small things. Every small is now turning a huge help to the big country who is standing and fighting.

So thank you. Should I delete that is part of the ACAS creator network.