Should I Delete That? - "Stand-up comedy is a drug" ... with Russell Kane

Episode Date: March 17, 2025

We think stand-up comedy is possibly one of the most terrifying professions on the planet - and today, we’re speaking to a man who has mastered it. In this episode, we’re speaking to the multi-award-winning comedian, presenter, actor, author, and scriptwriter Russell Kane.He tells us about this experience growing up funny in a working class household with a hyper-masculine father and how that experience built his career and how it has been reflected in his own attitude to fatherhood. This conversation goes so much further than comedy - as we touch on everything from evolutionary biology, male sperm counts to emotional vulnerability - to unpack what Russell sees as a new vision for young men. This episode was recorded in November 2024.Follow @Russell_Kane on Instagram You can find all of Russell’s work at https://www.russellkane.co.uk/ Russell is on tour throughout 2025 - you can find a date near you here!You can buy your copy of Pet Selector: A hilarious guide to all the usual and unusual household pets here! Evil Genius with Russell Kane is available on BBC Sounds - or wherever you get your podcasts!If you would like to get in touch - you can email us on [e-mail] us on Instagram:@shouldideletethat@em_clarkson@alexlight_ldnShould I Delete That is produced by Faye LawrenceStudio Manager: Dex RoyVideo Editor: Celia GomezSocial Media Manager: Emma-Kirsty FraserMusic: Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The solution for the questions feminism has lies with men and women linking arms and working together, not with bad-mouthing each other. Hello and welcome back to Should I Delete That? Today on the podcast, we are speaking to the multi-award-winning comedian, presenter, actor, author and script writer Russell Kane. In this conversation, Russell shares what it was like growing up as the funny kid in a working-class home with a tough, hyper-masculine dad, and this was an experience that shaped his career and his approach to fatherhood. Russell is obviously known for being a comedian, but this conversation goes way beyond just comedy. We dive into everything from declining sperm counts to emotional vulnerability as Russell lays out his vision for what it means to be a young man in today's world. Guys, I'm not on this one because I'd lost my voice on the day when Russell came into

the studio. I was really gutted, but I literally couldn't even say, word. But I loved listening back to his great chat with M and I hope you guys love it too. Let's get into it. Here's Russell Kane. Hello. Hello. Thank you so much for coming in. Where's, where's Alex? I know. I don't know. I'm so angry. I'm so angry. What can, what can be worse than pregnant? To be fair, you should hear her. She sounds awful. I was raging and then she sent me, I wrung her to have it out and then. It needs to be a new variant of COVID, an amputation or a car accident. Okay, I'll let her know.

If you could just crash your car on the way over. So you're like, let me just vomit my breakfast and broadcast, bitch. Thank you. This is exactly what I needed. I was nervous to do it alone, but I feel better now. I'm going to ask the most annoying question that I can ask a comedian, but it's something that I personally have so much information in, sorry, information, fascination in,

okay, is it not the most terrifying thing in the world when you're starting to be a comedian to be funny and to risk that you're not? funny well on a biological evolutionary level the two things human beings fear most is threat to physical safety and threat of being ostracized by the social group so as we were our species were evolving if either of those two things happened to you you normally died a painful death in the wild and one could argue that ostracism is a slower more painful death you see them on like the david aton you know the monkey living in the tree with the gray muzzle that just has to live

separate till it dies on its own. That's us. So if you start taking up boxing and then do a professional boxing bout, that fear that you feel on the way to the ring is rooted in that ancestral fear. The fear of a stand-up comedian of being booed off, even though you're just holding a mic, it's a room full of people you'll never see again on the surface, taps into a deep-rooted fear of social rejection, which you could argue, if you wanted to put a slightly sexist, Ethologist slant on it. It's probably worse for women because in the ancestral evolutionary environment, they were more social in the environment we evolved.

I don't know. I haven't been a woman. But maybe it's scarier. I don't know. So a lot of men are basically psychopaths. I've got no friends and I don't care and I'll wank in a studio flat. I know more women whose social connections are more important. Therefore, yes, emodium-laced terror for the first year.

So what makes you do it? Because I, yeah, I can't. I went to, my husband took me to the comedy store to go and watch them when when they boo people off if it goes badly. And it literally made me want to die inside. Oh, the gong show Monday night. It's the most brutal thing I've ever seen. And I've long since maintained that being a stand-up comedian would probably be the

hardest job in the world. But I can't think of a job I'd like to do less because it's so scary. Because I don't look funny or sound funny, like I'm not a jordy and I'm not got any sort of extreme facial features, that I, that gong show was much harder for me because people didn't even really want to hear what I had to say. So both triumphs, I tried out. I got as far as, good evening, get gone straight off. Okay.

Just by being irritating upon sight. Doesn't that just make you want to die? Isn't it interesting that a lot of the overlap of the language of comedy is to do with death, dying on stage. I killed it. I killed the room, dying with laughter, bloody, bloody, blah. So there is obviously an intersection in the human brain between laughter or lack of it and death and life. Yeah. And comedians talk all the time about dying.

Yeah. So I suppose I would have to compare it to an addiction, the same way that I don't know if you've ever been in one of those relationships where you know you should split up with a mental twat who's destroying your life, but you can't because you love them. Stand-up comedy is pretty much the same for the first four years. Wow. The hit that you get from the laugh is the same as a hit from a drug that you know is hurting you. Not why I've ever taken any of those drugs, I've only taken the fun ones. but how I imagine heroin, which I'd never put in my body. In fact, the reason I would never try heroin or crack or anything like that is because

I'm the right age to have been hit with the adverts. And this is how I would describe stand-up comedy. The first time you try it, you'll be sick, but then you'll come back for more. It terrified my generation of heroin. And I had a really, like I'd come from the arson, council estate, middle of fucking nowhere. It was a miracle. I was on fluffy couches working as a copyrighter being all middle class with hummus in the fridge and pedigree cats and all that shit. And everyone kept saying, you're so funny, you should try stand-up.

People have said, I'm funny my whole life. But as soon as I was amongst middle-class people who did things like going to the theatre and comedy, it was suggested to me, I should try it. No one had ever suggested that to me before the age of 28 years old. No one had ever said, you're funny, you should do that, ever. It was never suggested. I did it the first time. And I was literally sick. And over the following six months, I split up my girlfriend, I got two written warnings at work for being late and unfocused.

I lost half a stone. So it's literally like being on a drug. And I could not stop doing it because the ha came in like a rush. It does. Like a rush from a drug. And then what happens after the four years, if the first four years is like the drug bit? Well, if you're any good, you start to become good. Yeah.

And you start to win competitions. I mean, I'm adding a few years for modesty there. It happened a bit faster for me. But I think that's because I started so late. Yeah. You know, I didn't, I didn't really take it seriously until I was in my 30s instead of in my mid-20s when I should have done it. And that's purely a social class thing.

You know, I didn't have bad parents at all. I had brilliant parents, one of the few undivorced parents in the council street. But the only way I can describe it is, because my daughter is obviously having a privileged upbringing, so I can directly compare it to my upbringing, is when you're middle class or higher, you're on like a yo sushi tray of hobbies and pursuits. Would you like to try a violin?

Yes, Daddy. The piano, no, thank you. French, no, thank you. Greece didn't like it. Africa, like that. Gap me a brown person photo. And you're just on the, but when you're working class,

you're not shown these things, not out of neglect. Mom and Dad just didn't know that you have the money, the resources, the time, whatever. We didn't even have books in the house. So it just, took me a little longer, but the first time I did it, I was like, oh shit, this is what I'm

supposed to do. God damn it. Why didn't someone show me earlier? I mean, you've always been funny. Did it ever feel like a waste as you're growing up? I mean, not knowing that it's like an option that one day you could just go and be funny for a job. Was it a big part of your personality? Was it something that you, because I don't know, I imagine, I don't know why I imagine we're comedians that everyone's always hiding behind the, you know, it's the clown thing, Tears of the cloud. Exactly, that you're like hiding behind your jokes and stuff. But like, was that a big part of your personality before it became your career?

Yes, so I spoke to, who was I speaking to about this? Oh, yes, the academic and scholar Bradley Walsh, who was, I think he just got off stage at Gonville and Keys. No, he was, he said, I'm like, what's called a type two comic, a kitchen comic, if you like. So you'll, if you could interview two comedians here and you'll get someone in and he or she are, or they will be really different. But as you've seen before I got on, I'm not. I'm just, I had a microphone in an audience and I'll just get some more laughs. But there isn't really a gap.

I've just monetised my personality. So I haven't had to bring anything out or hide behind anything. I'm exactly the same backstage, on stage, at home, playing with my daughter, messing around with my wife, whereas the type 1 comics are brilliant writers, jokes that you want to quote. Oh, did you just do that monologue, blah, blah, blah last week. I'll quote it or this, or that one's got a catchphrase. And they really like, they think about each word and they really, like, write these brilliant shows where I'm just a gobshite.

I could, I could stay on tour. No problem. Is that confidence? I think it's just the way I'm wired. Yeah. I've got like, I don't like miss using the word autistic, because I'm not autistic, but there's obviously something not wired right in that if you said, right, you've got five minutes. and you need to, I want a five-minute monologue about this set, I would be able to do that. I would probably be able to improvise it.

That's obviously not normal. There's obviously something like, like I think in funny. Yeah. Everything gets filtered through that first, like the same way a maths person can't stop thinking in numbers. I don't have to put pen to paper. If I spilt that coffee now and spoilt your set, I would write right, right, knocked over comment, a coffee spoiled set. And then tonight on stage, I might just describe it. see where it went, the telling of it.

That means, okay, in my head, I'm like picturing your life and it's like laugh a minute, like forever. Like, does that mean that you've just had a very like, that you've, that you have not necessarily that your life's been super happy the whole time, but that within that you've been able to like see the fun in your life. I think that's how my friends would probably describe me as like that or mental or crazy. And, you know, for a straight guy, which I am shockingly. I'm the first one up, I always was that, but all of this predated, you know, being on

stage. The irony is I've had to become more introvert now. So if I'm at me, I love dancing. I love clubbing. I've done two I've ethers this year. I did three last year. But now I'm not the first one on the dance floor anymore in case it looks like, oh, first one on the dance floor, because you're on telly. Whereas before that, I was like, me, me with the gay men and the grannies at a wedding, I was the first one up, always without fail. Totally just no, particularly after a vodka, just no fear, no embarrassment. Yeah. Very confusing for females who sort of didn't know how to take me.

Once I got to 30 and stopped being an issue. The girls from around my way, they sort of attracted to more, you know, like Terry with two sleeves and a Coke bogey. But once they had their heart shut out for the third time, they're ready for the camp nerd. He's waiting in the wing. Yeah. Yeah, my husband's like that. He's a musical man.

It's like grade eight jazz dancer. Exactly. What are you supposed to do with that? Ten years, I call it, of Afghanistan with no action whatsoever, sort of mapped forearms. Played the long game. You just, nothing, just no fit in. I played Dungeons and Dragons till I was 21, full time. It was just getting a girlfriend at 17 was considered a miracle by everyone that knew me.

And that was only because we did, we attended the school ball of a posh private school. I can't remember why someone had met someone on holiday. and we'd all were the plus ones of a load of girls we didn't know and of course what's massive generalisation but the better educated and and the posher the girl the sooner they seem to be more attracted to guys' personalities rather than you know that whereas whereas almost every female in my family around my way was held back by attracted to bastard disease until they were at least 30 that's interesting he looks like you might emotionally abuse me Will you buy me a drink, please?

Will you get me pregnant, then fuck off when he's two? Thank you. That's almost every auntie, every cousin. I mean, there's very few undivorced. There were few dads in my road, very few. I was almost picked on for having a dad. Okay. Does that make you a better dad?

It only makes me a better dad because, God rest his soul, my dad's been dead so long. I feel awful. But he just taught me what not to do, basically. He gave me a number of, opposites to follow he was extremely pessimistic life shit traffic will be shit holiday be shit your life will be shit he was putting petrol in the car when i was 10 and said to me promise me boy you'll never have kids without thinking through what that i was like what what

what does that mean yeah about seven years later i was like oh right so he didn't even want me then um but he just just miserable fucker just negative such a waste of a life just being miserable but very very strong whatever masculine means i use mogadalts reference it doesn't mean man or woman it means archetyp masculine knuckle dragging silver third bnp voting steroid injecting 17 stone me eating racist angry fucker but a strong a strong male figure there's no way i was going to steal a playstation or deal drugs which is what a lot of people did around my way did you want to crack jokes, though, around that. Not really.

Well, my dad's jokes always finished with. So it's West Indian, no, Dad. Yeah. So. Where did the funny, how could you be funny with your dad? Could you be funny at home? Not really. There was, so I suppose it's really, I have to be,

paint a more three-dimensional picture. So they were his overbearing traits. But he was weirdly inappropriately joky with it, particularly when he'd had a drink. And in fact, he was even a, I can't remember it was a blue coat or a red coat, long before I was born at Butlins and was like told one-liners. So it was in there. My mum's the gobshite that can't stop speaking and has got really over the top way with words, even though she left school at 14. I think maybe the word smithery comes from her.

And there might be if my dad hadn't had such an awful childhood that broke him, maybe he had that sense of, humour trapped in there. We'll never know because I literally never had a conversation with my dad, never went to the pub with him once, never had a single intimate moment ever. I was talking to Lindsay, it's my wife the other night. I was like, I can't remember having a single, undivorced parents. I lived at home till I was 25. Not one, not one cup of tea. Like, let's get into it. Let's chat about nothing. Nothing. I can't, I can recall nothing. Do you think that was because of, do you think not to diagnose your dad who I didn't know, But it sounds like maybe it was a, he might have been depressed.

Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah. When he died, I went into the shed at the bottom of the garden, which was locked with like three padlocks throughout my whole life, like he was blue beard or something. But in fact, once when I was 14, I broke into that shed with my friends because we were so sure there was porn in there.

And this is just, just, or some people had internet, but no one could afford it around my way at this point. And so we had no access to pornography, which obviously many teenage boys. I'm being generous here, teenage boys, not all, seek access to 105% of teenage boys. Yeah, I think all would probably be a safe enough assumption. And I counted my dad, I watched where my dad hit the key. And I count, we counted that it was me, Wayne Lee, Scott, all the whole crew. We counted the number of chains.

I mean, I did not disturb a single thing, removed one magazine each, which was, was loaned out. You've got that one. You'll return it in three days. There was piles up. There's no way he was auditing those. They weren't in alphabetical order. There wasn't like a Dewey decimal reference. We returned our magazines after reading them. And we went back the second time. I swear to you, I'm not making this up. As I went to put my, it was like a tall filing cabinet with deep handles. There was a mousetrap inside every handle and a post-it which said, let's see you wank with broken fingers. Oh my God.

That's so intense. So that was the level of the shed. So when he died, I can wait to empty that shed and see what was in there. And my dad who had like bulky toddler writing and had no books in the house. I've never seen him read anything other than a bill or the scuba diving manual. We love scuba diving. There was a diary. I'm like, what the F?

A diary from Dile from a diary. I think Fuzzy, I thought Fuzzy felt was beyond it. And I opened it thinking it was going to be full of all these revelations. It was one of the saddest things I've ever seen. Rained today. James, that's my brother. James worse. My brother's very ill.

James ill. Job cancelled. Rain. Shit weather. Shit day. Shit week. Rain. Like a prisoner's diary.

And I think on some level that's what he was, a prisoner. Because my father could not live in the present. Oh, we should be over there. Essex culture. We should be in the North Forwoods or Epping in a mansion. Look at Paul. He's got his own glass company. He's a millionaire. He's son drives a Lamborghini. I got fuck all. I won't make whole bones. My life's wasted. Constant negativity. Whereas, as in my last show, I wish I got older my dad and said, you know what? We own our council house, regardless of what people think about what Thatcher did. For us, it was transformative. I had a four-bedroom

Yeah, it's a shit road in literally the stab capital of London, EN3, England. But we had a four-bedroom house with a swimming pool in the back garden that my dad built with his own rented digger on sweet bathroom. I had the Commodore Amiga computer, a satellite TV where the satellite dish moot, before my brother got ill, two healthy sons, I couldn't see the wealth that he had. And of course, trick of life is not how much you've got, whether you're on fucking 700 grand a a 70 grand a year of 17 is to try and at least enjoy where you are because there is no other option whilst combining it with drive but not so much ambition you can't live in the moment

that's the happiness formula yeah nice well done practical people have been looking for that so long really long answer I'm just opposite to my old man on it on every level innately do you think yeah maybe maybe I've had to work a bit because obviously if you get that tape installed in you, life shit, shit, shit, you've got to slightly recognise what is innately you versus what is a pattern that's been installed. So I had a few creases left to iron out, which I did in 2009, and I did the Hoffman course, which is just a game changer. It's residential. There were people there literally antidepressant with self-harming marks all out of their arm. There were people there on a corporate level,

just see if they could learn something about themselves. And then there was people like me sort of in between that had these tapes they wanted to take out and read. Best thing I've ever done. I'd recommend to stop wasting money on your weekly therapist, do a Hoffman. Because it's probably a weekly therapist if you have one. Not that I've ever had one, so maybe I shouldn't say it.

But you're in there, what, 60 minutes? And then you're out and you're on your phone and then your mum calls out, your friends, it's something toxic. It's not, you're not removed enough to stop the heart and restart it. You need to go residential. You seem quite all or nothing, though, as a person. Possibly. Yeah.

I just don't think 60 minutes with these fucking smartphones, 60 minutes a week, it ain't getting, it's not enough. You need to stop the heart and restart it. That means no yoga, no running, no sex, no masturbation, two minute showers, focus on the process and the food. That's what it was for the week. Wow. But that felt like means to an end, though.

It's like you can see, like, you can see that you've got creases and you know where you want to be. So it's like, I just want to get there. Yeah. I guess that's the kind of, that's the thing that. a lot of people probably don't have. It's like knowing where they want to, like they know they don't want to be here. Yes.

But they don't know where it was. And if it's bad, like like with my brother, where he's so ill, it doesn't, he hasn't really even got cognition really. I mean, he's such an extreme example. But if you, if you don't have insight into your condition, you cannot take the first step towards healing it or fixing it. And that could be as simple as smoking or drinking. I should have two, I have five beers a night

but that's because, you know, you've got no insight. You don't stand a chance. Yeah. So what you're talking about is having insight into one's own sort of mental state. Once you've got that, it's a fucking superpower. But it's a muscle. You can practice it.

That's not inborn. That's learned like wanky stuff I don't do like breath work and meditation. All that shit. If I was to practice it, I would get good at it. Yeah. Just can't be asked. When did you want to start doing that though?

Like the, like, so you, had your childhood and then you had a corporate job, normal job? Yeah. I was a copywriter in an advertising agency. I loved it. Yeah. Until you were 28 and then you got into comedy. Yeah.

With the like self-work stuff, self-s sort of, it's not normal for men in their 20s necessarily to be that introspective and to think about that. Very true. Where do you think that came from? I'm a good question. Sorry, I feel like I'm like a therapist. No, it's a good question. And the answer is I knew I wanted to have, well, I knew it was a strong possibility that I would

have children one day. And I just wanted to get rid of the patterns of the negative speech, which I didn't believe it would just come out of my mouth. And also I had some slight emotional regulation issues. Nothing like drastic and only towards myself and objects and doors. And I know we're all human and I actually don't trust people who don't lose their ag now and again. It's like They've been lobotomized. Even if we're British, we are allowed to lose our call now and again. But it was going a bit too far. And I thought, this is bordering on a behaviour that could get dangerous towards myself here,

particularly when mixed with alcohol, which I don't really drink anymore. So I thought, right, enough's enough. Basically what happened was I was having an argument with my then partner. And I lost my temper. and I had Chinese take away on a plate and it was like something out of Florida and it's comic really I smashed my own food over my head completely mental behaviour

thinking it would just smash the plate and I just got really unlucky and honestly it was like something out of a Sam Remy horror there's blood going to cross the room I was like oh shit what have I done and I sort of started doing like pathetic collapsing on the floor and the blood went in my eyes so I couldn't see so I thought I blinded myself

Oh, my God. And she's obviously calling an ambulance. And then I started picking this white stuff out and I honestly thought I fractured my skull, but it was special fried, it was special fried rice.

Got to hospital. And then the lying, I had to start lying because I was so ashamed. Obviously, my partner, she backed me out. Oh, he fainted, he's overworked,

he fainted. Because I'm going to have to explain to him. I've got stitches in my head. And of course, she then gets questioned by the police as a domestic abuser. I was like, this is just that's you get one warning with stuff like that even though it wasn't i didn't lose

my call for hours and run off down that it was just a shout out and i was like what was that it shouldn't be it shouldn't be getting more intense as you get to 31 32 33 those hormones and tempers of adolescence should decrease in theory along with testosterone but it wasn't it was because i was getting famous and i was getting more in this world it was increasing I thought absolutely no no non-negotiable so in your aunt the answer is it was a specific incident that forced me to get on Google and there was I'm really into house music and drum and bass stuff like that there was one of my favourite DJs Goldie just just the bizarre coincidence talking about this Hoffman I was like what the hell is that I googled it and it was like when you're really

the catchphrase was that when you're really ready to make change and they described how you would know. And I was like, that's me. Three and a half grand, which I did not have. Best three and a half grand I've ever borrowed in my entire life came out fixed without one incident. I mean, we're talking the most that happens now is a door slam as I go out the door, followed by, I'm sorry, I slam the door two seconds later. That's it. That's all I'm living with now. That's so cool. Instant fix. And I would say the 30 people on my year, 90% were permanently fixed, including the people that used to have to take antidepressants because their problem was not a chemical imbalance in their brain. The problem was a learned pattern.

It's super interesting as well to do that at the beginning of your fame. Like that's because I imagine that's incredibly intense. Also being famous for being funny, that's so much pressure. Yeah. I still was, even the injury was funny. As you can tell, it's just funny shit. I was still dealt with it with good humour. But I thought, what if next time I do hit a vein, people are going to think I've like

topped myself or done something like properly mental, pardon the land. but I suppose I can say it was genuinely mental ill health on some level. You just can't get there on a cosy couch with someone in Highbury and then come back the next week. Life gets in the way. You need to be wound right back to eight years old into the motherboard, into the DNA, into your programming and string and take that one out, that zero, and then back up. I can't tell you how they do it because it would spoil it for anyone that would go.

Yeah. And you sign an NDA for that very reason. Do you? Yeah. That's so cool. Because the process is, part of it is the waking up. What the hell is it going to be? What the fuck am I going to make us do today?

And I have like a real bad resistance to what I call American wank. Mm-hmm. Wellness. Yeah, wellness wank. American. You know, blood's breath work. Do you mean breathe into that? All of that shite.

And so to sit around in a circle took every bit of my, every bit of my, every bit of my, willpower and had to share a room with a bloke I'd never met. Interestingly, just one of the side effects before the Hoffman, I couldn't stay at other people's houses. I would do anything to not do it, to not use their bathroom, to not shower when I was there, just the thought of imposing or causing disruption. Very common with a parent that was overbearing or you fucking left the door open, you're fucking all that stuff. So that's very normal. Since then, I'm totally cool now. And the other thing I never did, hugged people. I just thought it was a working class thing.

So we'd get to the end of a party and I would make sure I was near the door. So I'd go, see everyone? And run out just the thought of particularly a female, but anyone hugging me. Because for me, affection was only done by your mum or your nan or someone you were in a sexual relationship with any other type of physical contact. I'm just like, fuck off. Don't touch me. You're not interested. Gone permanently.

Wow. That from the day I left, I'm like, hello, I love you, nice, my, darling. From the, from the day I left forever. Yeah, it's like a complete rewiring. Complete. Did it change you as a, like, who you are when you go home? Did it change you not just in how you're like acting when you're with people or act in this sort of those things that have changed? Did I have a personality transplant?

Yeah, did you feel like that? Did you feel like, oh, everything's but happier today? Yes, the work, they warn you for the first eight days. You're supposed to go into a like a hotel or go away for a few days because you're such a bell end when you come out. You're like, hello, the world is so beautiful. It's that kind of bell end. I love you, Mom. I'm going to call you again.

So you're supposed to wait seven days before you start calling people and tell you they love them and all that shite. Because what happens is you reintegrate. This is called integration. So you reintegrate who you, whom, whom you were him, he, he, who, who, who. you were with um with whom it's just the who whom you've become do you know how you check it no for my copywriting days you replace it with he or him and then you can tell because if it's him you know the m sound is appropriate like if you swapped it with you so if i said whom you were him you were or he you were whichever sounds more correct he you don't think either sound

correct no they don't but him is better you were him okay you can make a judgment call on that as a copywriter anyway um so yeah i It didn't, it's not changed. Overall is the answer. You reintegrate. The one thing that did happen is the next show I wrote, I won the biggest award in comedy. Yeah.

Which was, used to be called the Perrier Award. Now I just called, I don't know what it's called this year. Edinburgh Comedy. Whatever it is, I won it easily, apparently. Again, Sarah Milliken, Bo Burnham and Greg Davies. Did it make you funnier? It made me funnier, but the show, with Edinburgh shows, it's not just about making everyone piss their pants for 70 minutes.

If you have a theme or you're saying something, you get more critical acclaim. You're elevating it. And I thought, I'm going to talk about my old man for the whole 60-minute show. Just bittersweet, super funny stories of an alpha male silverback dad previewed brilliantly. I knew I was going to have a good Edinburgh. I got up to Edinburgh and my first show was August the 4th. And I was having this takeaway in August 3rd. I don't know what made me think of this and I didn't test it.

I phone my manager, I was like, you're not going to like what I'm about to say. I'm not, I'm going to change the ending of the show. Because at the moment, it finished on a really funny story with maybe like a callback. I can't remember what it was. Callbacks when you repeat something from earlier and everyone goes, eh, you said that earlier. My dad. I don't know why it's impressive.

Because what happened was, this was 2010. I spoke about my dad in the present tense when I'm on stage. Because as soon as I started telling funny story, it went dad and went, oh, he's dead now. everyone laughed 50% less. So I just thought, well, it makes no odds to them. Dave's like this. My dad is, my dad.

And this whole show was my dad is. You should meet my dad, dad, this, dad, that. And I said, what about if I had a spotlight at the end and slowly changed into the past tense and revealed in my dad's voice that he was deceased, but the performer didn't have the courage to reveal that during the show. It might have an emotional sort of punch, which I've never, never done that before.

I never had a sad ending. So I'm just going to try it on the fourth and see what happens because that's the previous. And, of course, everyone's like crying. And I was like, oh shit. Kaching. Yeah. And that's what I did.

I really feel like I'm therapyizing, which I don't mean to do. But having gone from like not wanting to impose and being like that as a person, I imagine that kind of makes you quite self-sufficient. I'm still like, I still have a lot of that. I mean, you're listening. listeners and or if they're watching a clip on Instagram, that coffee I made myself and bought in a flask. I mean, that's so stupid. I've been to the, we're in the, can we say where we are? Yeah. The print works. I know there's a coffee shop there. Yeah. I know it. But I still

thought, well, what if that's closed? And then I've got a call. One of you has to run out. To be fair, that is closed a lot. He was so difficult. You know, you couldn't start without a coffee. You know, I didn't think he'd be like that. And so I was just thinking of you saying that. Sorry, that wasn't meant to be your voice. And I just thought, so I just bring a coffee. I've got a case with a steamer in in case my shirt was too creased I didn't know what... So I do do a lot of over prep

so that I don't need anything from anyone. Okay. So I suppose I'm not completely healed but at the same time, there's always great coffee. But also, yeah, and if it works for you as a person, I don't feel like you need to heal every part of who you are. That's like, that's nice.

It's nice. I'm hyper self-sufficient. Yeah. When you're super self-sufficient as a person, I imagine you're quite... I'm not super... I don't know. I'll think about that later. I don't know if I'm super self-sufficient. I don't know if I want to think about the fact that I might not be. But does that, do you think,

lend itself to wanting to close yourself off? Because what you, doing that show there saying about, you know, exposing to the audience that your dad has died and, like, talking about this stuff that is, like, quite emotional, that is, I mean, it's, it's vulnerable. Like, how do you, how do you balance your vulnerability with your self-sufficient? Well, I'm emotionally open and logistically closed. Okay. That doesn't, I know you said, didn't really like the wellness stuff or like the breathing and yeah well i do plenty of it yeah it is like it's you're super like in tune with your yeah yeah that's quite a new like it's quite unusual to have i guess like male spokespersons for being so in sorry making you a male

spokesperson but like no i know what you mean to have advocates for to be to be to be a public or to be open about advocating for your mental health and like checking in with who you are who you want to be. I think that a lot of men don't, and particularly it's not associate with being funny either. Like it's not for young men who are struggling with whatever it is, whether it be addiction or sort of issues of not liking themselves. I don't think that's, there's not an awful lot in the conversation for them and like how you can go and change your life, basically. And do you know what? I might even start doing it this week. I keep putting it off. I want to speak to those men because what's happened here.

This is just my, I'm just the right age to be sort of in between being totally irrelevant, but old enough to reflect. And what's happened is, and I know this is not me just pontificating because I'm speaking to audiences and people don't laugh and nudge if it isn't on the money. What I want for my daughter, for example, and what I want for my wife, which she's now doing, she's fucking destroying it. is complicated, difficult, and impossible. Bad bitch, boss bitch, great mum, emotionalism, a man, all these impossible things on a mountain. But she's, I'm going to go, I'm going to equal pay. She knows what on the mountain.

Men currently don't have a mountain. No. We don't, hairy, no, no, waxed, aggressive. Yeah, because it's a bit of a turn on to be like Mr. Gray and choke me out. But not really, only ironic. What? No, not aggressive. Illiterate.

But don't talk too much because it's like you're gay. But do talk, it's fucked, it's fucked. Men don't, literally don't have a clue. If you say it, like even me saying that, oh, another mansplaining anti-femin, no, no, no, no, no, no. The solution for the questions feminism has lies with men and women linking arms and working together, not with bad-mouthing each other. because into that gap Andrew Tate and Jordan Bell and Peterson

is pouring there's something fundamentally wrong with a woman who doesn't want a baby at 30 something that was said in 2023 not 1823 and it's filling up it's filling up with like a throwback Neanderthole chest beat

because men like me are too scared really to put out the different vision because of the blowback of sounding like we're criticising feminism. Yeah. We are not. We are simply saying that while women have, no one's, no one's discounting the impossibly

misogynistic patriarchal mount fuckery that you have to climb. No one's saying that. We're just saying that we're, but into, that men are dropping down. We're, we've got eating disorders, steroids, suicide. We're just becoming more messed up. I think the interesting thing is it's, it's that. there are men who are discrediting the misogyny that women face, but they're the men who, like you say, are being picked up by Andrew Tate and Jordan Peterson.

Most men, as you say, aren't. But for looking at young men, they don't have, and, well, they do, but it's few and far between having, like you say, people who are willing to have a conversation, because it is scary to, at a point, I guess you want to stand up and be like, oh, I want to be a good, like, example to men. But then within that, you've got masculinity. And that's quite weapon.

You know, people are quite negative about masculinity and toxic masculinity. And it's quite a complicated conversation that, I imagine, is scary to have. But it does mean that there aren't male role models. And men are also scared to say what they actually feel and think. For example, get men and boys off the record, which I have done for various things I've filmed, young men. And there's one of my favourite comics did a sketch about this on TV. I think it was Rachel Parrott. I love Rachel Parris.

The joke was very funny. It's great. Making fun of the idea that men are now too scared to go into a bar and pay a woman a compliment or ask about. It's ridiculous. Use your common sense. But that, but they are. Meanwhile, they are. So you're either, the player doesn't give a shit and he's just playing the numbers game.

It's a fuck boy and it's no good for you anyway. Yeah. If I was single now, I would be so. overly scared and overly cautious, I certainly wouldn't have pursued the relationship with my wife who was in the front row of my audience. No way. Absolutely zero chance. I would rather die being eaten by cats, wanking myself to death, than pursue a woman from the audience because of the man with a white male, which is the worst thing you can be. How fucking dare you be a white male with the microphone, leaning over. That's it. Die, die a virgin and fuck off. That's what I would have to do.

Nice. So that's, I'm doing a colourful comedic sketch to illustrate what some of these young, they're not 50-year-old men going, you can't say anything now. Young men are like, oh, yeah, yeah, but I don't, you know, oh, is that, is that okay? Because they live, dribbling, licking the wotsets dust off their iPad when they're 12 to 17, learn no social skills. You can't learn consent by watching a YouTube video. You have to actually interact with females and listen to people and learn.

and body cues and all the things that it had to do before 1997 before the internet. So the reason male suicide is so high and is the number one cause of death amongst men, not cancer, not heart attack, none of those men under, it goes really high up to 50. It's because

when this is what I would love to get rid of. If I could become like mandrew mate, Andrew Tate's our nemesis, men are driven by status and these smartphones have dialed that up to about a thousand. Yeah. You know, if your name's Terry and you live in Luton,

you shouldn't really be comparing yourself to Seb who lives in Miami that drives a Lamborghini, but you are. Yeah. And your testosterone and the way your brain is growing is going to do all kinds of unusual things as it competes in an unrealistic way with the wrong people. Women do it too. If you haven't seen your friends since she was 16, what are you doing, stalking her in Carbo? Oh, she's got new boobs and a new man and I haven't.

It gives her fucking shit. You haven't seen her for 30 years. The difference is I think women are having those conversations. conversations like we know you know like we I mean she's not here it's weird no to talk to an empty seat but no she was so triggered she left during the first five minutes but yeah I have these conversations a lot and it's um like you know it's it's a conversation within the space within within like feminism it's part of this is healing our shit men aren't healing their shit because no one's helping them and they're actually just being exploited those vulnerabilities

the insecurities, everything is exploited by podcast and Charlton Peterson. How can steroid use be on the rise when it's so, it will kill you, it will give you a heart attack? You will die from having muscles in your 20. I mean, do you know, I just made a documentary about slightly unrelated but related, about male sperm count, right? So most couples will be functionally infertile in 40 years time, nearly all of them, 75%. will be functionally infertile about 34 years from now. So men's sperm count now is 30% of what it was.

If you take someone like your old man and my old man, it was a fucking two, three, four. I really don't want to think about 400 million per milliliter, turbocharged with fuel injected. If we could just do anyone else's sperm off that age, that would be nice. No, but they were. And you take someone like me who would have considered at the high end, it'd be like 20, 30%, and the young lads now are coming in at 50, 80 million,

which is just about enough to get pregnant. So they don't know all of the reasons why, but they know one of them is the plastics, but also the grooming, male grooming. Really? So, like, it made me laugh. Channel 4 tried to do a documentary where they went into schools to educate boys about unrealistic porn,

and they said, like, girls have to shave their bits, and that's not natural, and it's really painful when it grows back. So you, as an exercise, you will all go home and shave your bits, and half the class were like, well, we already do. Wow, okay. We're so fucked from porn, men are already. It's like, you're 20 years out of date.

Yeah. So men are waxing their fucking balls. They're wearing stupidly tight clothes. For this documentary, I had to wear a fake testicle thermometer thing when I went on stage because I wear slim, skinny jeans. I did. I don't anymore. heating my balls up to like 38 degrees.

Your ball's supposed to be 30 degrees. degrees, it's just like sperm genocide. Wow. And hot tubs, having pampering themselves in baths. So in the 70s, it was like, bit of brute, out with your hairy balls, out on the pool, back home, armpit stinking, I'm a man, who cares? Fucking sperm counts up here. So we are now the only species on earth where the man makes himself more infertile to be more attractive to the woman. Now, I'm all in favour of male grooming, for Christ's sake, I'm the last one out of the bathroom, men should be made to have as much pride in their appearance as females have, of course. But I think it's interesting that it's gone to such a degree that we're now

so waxing and plucking and going, men and most men are hairless on my stomach shaved, my chest is shaved, my grown-ass married man, what am I doing? My wife prefers it. That's where we are. Yeah, but that feels like it's exploited as well because there's the, and I get maybe women are ahead in this, that we are now having the conversations about the safety implications and the long-term effects and whether we need to be doing this, you know, like, are we doing it for the male gays? Are we doing it for whatever? But I suppose there, again, because there isn't a, there is a lack of healthy male role models. Men are doing what they think they should be doing, young boys, young men are doing what they think they should be doing because

it's the phones, man. Yeah, because it's the phones. Sixpacks and muscles and I mean, I do live in the gym, I'll be honest. But that's only because I have to stay fit for my job. It's not. about aesthetics or vanity, it's about longevity, which I'm obsessed with, health span, I call it. The percentage of years which you get that are vital. Sorry, I do witter on. No, I've really enjoyed this. We don't even need one host, do we have such a... Yeah, no, this is, but like, I am... Arrogant gobshite. You could just put a picture of you there, and I'm blah, blah, blah, blah.

Whatever you... They have done. I'm not really here. They... Sorry, I, whatever you said you were going to do, whatever you were thinking about doing, do it, like talking to young men. I want to. I really want to do more of it. My wife is just, she's changing me. We've married 10 years. I'm very lucky. I have to dial down how happy we are because it really pisses people off. No, it's nice. But no, people don't like it though. No, but that's Britain. Because, no, but when you're out, have you ever noticed how many of your female friends slag off their husbands? I don't know if it's the same in your group.

I make stuff up, to be honest about Alex. I've been with him 12 years. He's so great. But, and the same, and the same when I'm out of the lad, she's fucking, and I'm like, I've got nothing. You shouldn't be slagging off you. Like, you shouldn't be fucking slagging off your husband, wife or your baby, baby, daddy. Yeah, mom of your child. It's messed up. But anyway, I don't know what happened to Lindsay, but in 2021, she sold her second attempt at a business, which was an eyelash brand, which did really well. By now, she's, what is she?

31, 302. It's like someone just switched on the brain. Like you two have got that confidence to be on camera and all that. She'd never had that. She'd never done a selfie, never been featured on her own Instagram grid. It was just pictures of nice stuff. She's not that it makes any difference. Happens to be a great looking female to me. She's just one of those beautiful women on the planet. But it wasn't how she looked. It was just any idea. I don't want to hear my I couldn't want to hear my own voice. Fuck that. But someone just went, the fuck it button just went,

there's now or never. Yeah. And if you stalk my missus, my God, she's filming yesterday. She's on stage yesterday. She doesn't give a shit. Yeah. And she's now educating me about the female experience

because she's finally, she's had, the only reason she wasn't able to do that before was she wasn't able to contrast it with what she was doing. So she's gone from doing nothing to doing everything with a live audience

which as we established at the beginning is terrifying So it's great that she's sort of educating me about all of these things and she's the one driving this impulse in me and a lot of this stuff I'm saying is coming by her I suppose I think that's a really interesting point

we've just had International Men's Day I kept seeing all these men commenting being like, why is there nothing you guys were all really loud at International Women's Day why is there nothing for International Men's Day And I'm like, did you expect us to organise it for you? Exactly. Like, come on.

It's still in the dishwasher, Gary. It's such an interesting thing. Get it out yourself if it's so important. But it is nice and it is important because you have a daughter. So like. That's also, I think, part of it. Huge, yeah. Because it is terrifying.

Like, the world that I've got a daughter, I've got another one like literally imminent. Terrifying. What another daughter? Yeah. Terrifying. I mean. But wouldn't you be, but what about if it was a boy? More terrifying.

That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Isn't it strange? 20 years ago, oh, I've got a daughter, oh, God, oh, she's the physical safety. But now it's like, I've got a son. It's the mental. What am I going to, what do you tell them to be when we cannot as a society establish the ideal? I know there's the trad wife and all this fringe stuff.

I think most people with a brain in the head and a couple of GCSEs know what they want for their daughters. Yeah. Good job to be respected like men, consent to be respected, not to be physically harmed. to experience motherhood if they want to and to love it and free child care from dilation

let's go better than Denmark yes from from two centimetre dilation free child hair kicks in completely tuning out yes that's it that's the whole manifest

and we all we know what we want so but what do we want for our sons well I want you know I'm read at the thought of saying something old fashioned or too progressive

yeah it is scary messed up this is why we had to do it without girl Alex because she's got a little boy. She didn't got a clue. All I know is she's going to be a toxic boy, mum, whatever happens. What does the dad, and that you should be looking if she married, she married? She is married, yeah, to a man. To Dave, yeah. Right, so you should think, well, Dave will have the answers, but he'll be more lost than her. Yeah, I'm not sure what

is. Dave's a great dad. It'll be great. They'll be fine. They'll work it out. What's Dave? Dave, he'll be great. He'll be fine. What does Dave do? Is it sciencey, creative or legally and no it's um i never know what men do honestly they've got so many men all the women that i'm friends with will do like they're like podcasts or whatever on that oh great i can i can i understand that um dave works with data and sport see that's because because i know we shouldn't do like binary gender differences but at minors school you're listening to the boys collecting cars and naming flags and there's obviously something in us, a sort of namey, collecty, box-ticky and that's not always as useful for emotional literate.

No, I don't think they're an emotionally literate man, but I also don't know if I should be saying all this while Alex isn't even here. I'm sure he's got some data on whether it's appropriate. I also know that Dave will not be listening to this podcast, so I'm pretty safe. This has been amazing. We haven't, yeah, I literally could have talked to you forever. Thank you so much. No, I just, I've got to be honest.

I got the email through and I saw the host. I was like, God, I'd love to do that because I knew we'd have chats like this. So I thought, all right, let's see you, the previous guest were. And I was like, looking for just one man. Yeah, no, we don't do this. We've got three men in today. I was like, I don't know what to do with myself. I was like, is this some sort of like, sort of cult was it?

No, stunt experiment to expose me or something. I'd chat myself for me. We want to do more of these conversations. But like you say, there aren't actually a lot of men having them. And it's quite difficult to have a conversation that isn't confrontation. like I think I think people assume and this does happen a lot that I want to catch them out or that we want to catch them out which isn't helpful it's not aggressive and it's actually not really what we do at all but it has become so divisive so it is nicer it's not like it shows where men's heads are that they think simply by having a conversation with two intelligent women there's some sort of agenda yeah that's the shit we need to do that's the shit we need to fix right there so you can you know we're fixing it's it now. It's a bit, we're doing more meta-fixing. Yeah, look at a show. This is huge. This is a moment, guys. Thank you so much, Trot. It's been amazing. If people want to come and

see you on tour, they can. You're on tour for the next year. For only one more year to go, till December 25. I promise I'm not so like TED Talk when I'm on stuff. There's lots of silliness and inappropriate, immature shit to keep you. There's stuff for everyone. But it's, there's definitely something in this show running through it. that's a bit deeper. I know why. It's good, though. But it is.

There's lots of analysis in it about why young people don't go and watch comedy. I find that interesting as well. So you're 18 to 25 year olds, just don't go to stand up. They don't just not go to my stand-up. They also don't go and watch 21-year-old stand-ups. We're not talking about YouTubers that do a live unboxing at the O2. We're talking about, you know, the one with the American Improvising one? I forget what his name is.

And the audience is all like... I don't think I miss target demographic. No, but he's like, it's grannies and mums with a few teenagers thrown in. I'm like, so what I analysing this show is, oh shit, they're, they're, because of the way these phones work and because of the way identity politics and these phones breed with each other, we've now got a generation of people scared to be around views that might challenge them. Yeah, for sure. Let alone, or even stimulate them. Yeah. Or even provoke thoughts in them that aren't thoughts they already have.

This is the generation that was taught phonics rather than reading. Uh-uh. B-B-B-K. What's past tense? Just say k, k, k, k, da. Like, what the, the, no, syntax is too scary. You can't teach syntax. They might be scared of language.

So we're going to do phonics instead. K, b. And sports day, no one's going to lose. Everyone's going to get a medd. Just like life. That would have been nice for me, to be honest. But no one loses in life, do they? So let's prepare you to never lose into the workplace day one.

Oh, got anxiety. Of course you fucking have. You were given a medal every time you took a shit. You're better off learning loss when you're young. Loss and failure is not negative. It's a teacher. Yeah. Yeah, I lost a lot.

That's why you're a confident grown-up. Yeah. Yeah, probably. That's probably why I have a therapist to this. Somewhere in the middle. It's one of my favorite shows, apart from you guys, is Elizabeth Day's how to, how to fail. Because regardless of the individual guests, she's just somewhere in the middle. have on and she literally just had Salman Rushdie on. I mean, what her is she really teaches

that if you have the courage after you fail, if your business fails, if your husband or wife leaves you, if you get a diagnosis, if you get stabbed in the eye and nearly die, as Salman Rushdie did, in that after the shock has subsided, inside that dung is a diamond. And more diamonds on your pile the wealthier spiritually and then usually materially you become and the same with stand-up stand-up is the ultimate love-to-fail profession yeah as we established at the beginning that's definitely why I wouldn't do it I do not love to fail no but the more but this this podcast or any if you've got a good crew and a good producer so they will they won't be scared of failure. One of my favorite books is which everyone should read and teenagers should have it on

the syllabus. And this would be a great person for you to interview if you haven't already is Matthew Syed's black box thinking. No, we can mind that. Matthew Syed is fantastic broadcaster and he started his life as a ping pong champion, has just become this amazing author. And he compares industries that have black box thinking to those that don't. So for example, literally a black box is in aviation. So if a plane goes down, whatever is in that black box, within reason, is used to make the next lot of plane journeys safer, normally without prosecution, normally without blame or finger

pointing. Don't worry about it, Boeing. Let's, everyone check that part of the engine, black box think it. Surgeons. Yeah. Operating table. Who made the mistake? No one, no one saw anything. It's just a death that can't be explained, fear of being sued. Guess what? A number of people dying on the operating table is going down but much more slowly than the number of planes that crash go the more black box thinking you have in your life the stronger and more successful you become you need a producer that's not scared to tell you you made that mistake that's why that episode didn't work and you need to be able to hear that yeah and grow yeah off the baby gets I can't I'm much too sensitive for that right now I'm good obviously right now there are no

mistake. So yeah, come and see me on tour. Yeah, we will. I'll bring the baby. I won't. I'll come without them. Yes. I'll come alone. I'm not alone. That's sad. I'll come with a friend. I'll be fine. I'll see you there. Thank you so much. This has been great. If I could plug my book as well. Of course you can. Some moms and dads watching. And I've written a book for 7 to 11 year olds called Pet Selector because there was no funny cat and dog breed guide for children. Properly laugh out loud. What is a Great Dane, what's a Burmese cat? So it's got the history and all the breed guys. I've done a section as well for children that can't own those pets for whatever reasons,

budges, lizards. And I thought, well, this is a bit specialist. Maybe I'll sell a few copies. Can I sell it to my, can I get it for my mom? I thought they should really enjoy it. By God, it's been one of the biggest surprises of my entire career. I'm just doing book tours. I'm off to the National Animal Welfare Trust after this because these, it's about making sure

you match the animal to your personality. Okay. Particularly when you're rescuing as well, because you might go to rescue and there'll be one that's a bit sheep dog once a bit chihuahua always rescue first and it's a fun way of delivering that matter but kids love it yeah and the other thing going on sorry i should have done this at the beginning because you're right out of time is radio four's evil genius i love making it we take people from that sounded like trump then it's i love it it's great um it's it's we take people from history could be gandy richard pryor amy white house that varied i have three funny guests on

I'll have to send you an invite. And I reveal things about these great men and women, uncomfortable, sickening truths, fact bombs. And at the end, you have to vote, evil or genius. Oh, that's so good. Cancel or keep. Good. And people don't like it because people idolize these people.

And I get a lot of trolling. I have to switch my phone off if I do David Bowie. You know, like someone that a white 60-year-old man likes, you're in deep trouble. Yeah, no, fine. But so, yeah, it's, I've loved. I've learned so much, and I love it when people go, but do you think people are more complicated than that? I mean, I see what you're doing, but evil or genius is a bit binary and simplistic.

I dare you to go on Twitter and tweet one incorrect word and see if the world is full of grey areas the next day when everything you have is removed from you. I'm obviously satirising that idea. Evil or genius is the world we live in. Harvey Weinstein, gone R. Kelly, gone. Picasso. Nantes, rapist, asshole.

Oh, yeah, it's art, though. On to the wall, you go. And because it's elite art. Art Kelly, blackmail, buy, into the sewer, forever. Even though you did basically the same stuff as Picasso, you're a blackmail. Buy blackmail. Oh, Picasso, oh, you did a wonky face. I'm really interested in what that.

So there's race there, race and class, but also the types of art. Yeah. You know, Charles Dickens, it's like, he's never going to get cancelled. Yeah. It's a pedophile. Yeah, it's the class element, isn't it? It's a paed file. Yeah.

Straight up. Charles Dickens was a paedophile. Straight up. Ran off with a 15-year-old girl, left his wife. A paedophile might be a bit strong. No, I don't think so. She may have been 16 or 17. It's not the point. He abandoned his whole family.

Albert Einstein, literally a metonym for genius. If you show that it means genius, his theories, he used to sit back and go, well, now, What if the university's relative? That is genius to have thought that. But unfortunately, it would be like me and you going, what about a podcast about cars and then doing nothing, thinking, you know, all the hard work then has to happen. And do you know who did all that hard? So in physics works, you have to prove the maths. Yeah.

And that takes months or years, decades. His wife did, and I mean every, every single equation. Malab of Marwich, say her name, make her famous, forgotten by history. Malabarich did everything. She was above him at uni for maths, but of course didn't get a degree because she dared to have a vulva. She did all of his maths, everything. And when it got to the point where she's like, we're into special theory now, I want some credits. He wrote her a letter saying, I will beat the shit out of you if you seek a credit or tell anyone that you did.

the work. Oh my God. He then left her for his own cousin crying at the train station with the kids. Fuck you. You're old now. I don't fancy you. This was after two years of making her live with a list of rules. She went, please, Albert, let's stay married. And he went, well, you need to follow these rules then. It was like, leave my dinner at the door, pretend to be happy if we're in company, but do not interact with me in bright, fucking just the darkest shit. And she had to sign it. He then left her anyway, ran off with his cousin, got to his cousin's house, saw that his cousin's daughter was 18 and went, do you know what? I fancy both of you. Why don't you go into a room and decide who I shack up with? In the end, he went with the elder woman, but he still made

them choose. That's Einstein. That's not great. That's just one episode. I've turned that one into TV because Evil Genius is on telly as well. It's on Sky. Oh, my God. So I'm so passionate. And I actually met the historian who's campaigning for marriage to get her place in history. Yeah, put it on a coin. And you shouldn't talk about Albert Einstein's special theory of relativity. It's his and hers. Yeah, there. Yeah, it's their theory.

Yes, okay, he did the concept. What were her concepts? We'll never know. Imagine the shit she wrote down. I'm not interested. Proved my ideas. Yeah, shit. Oh, my God.

She was cleverer and she did more work. Oh, I'm going to go. enraged. So he was the gene. And not only that, but he did the mass that created the atomic bomb. I know it was Oppenheimer that did it. But he was, we had this big argument in the studio, but I think surely if you're that intelligent, you should go, well, that could split the atom, which would, you would

just go like that, wouldn't you? Nothing. Yeah. That is ego. Here it is. Don't do anything evil with it, Germans. I'm like, just so, I didn't win this argument, but I wanted to hold into account. If I've created an algorithm at home

that could create the perfect Andrew Tate avatar by accident that could be on every boy's phone I would just delete it I wouldn't go where I better put it into the world for the sake of sake of sake. That's the ego. That's the ego. True. Which is probably quite evil. Exactly. So yeah, if you like stuff like that

listen to Einstein. Fab, we will leave the links to everything we've talked about in the show notes if you want to listen. This has been so great, Russell. Thank you so much for them. Thank you. Should I delete that as part of the ACAS creator network. I don't know.