Should I Delete That? - The DM that ended my engagement… with Michelle Elman

Episode Date: October 6, 2024

If you’re dating, if you’re dealing with a difficult break up or if you just need a postive spin on a tough situation - this is the episode for you. The brilliant life coach, activist and author Michelle Elman joins Em and Alex in the studio today - to speak candidly about her engagement ending earlier this year, and how she’s thrived in the subsequent months. One Instagram DM completely changed the course of Michelle's life - but she tells us why she chose forgiveness, why she started sharing that she was dating this summer, and how that has helped her to heal. Follow Michelle on Instagram @michelleelmanMichelle’s podcast In All Honesty is available on all podcast platformsYou can get your copy of Michelle’s book The Selfish Romantic here and you can pre-order Bad Friend now!Email us on [e-mail] us on Instagram:@shouldideletethat@em_clarkson@alexlight_ldnShould I Delete That? is produced by Faye Lawrence Music by Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

And I got engaged on the Saturday, found out he'd been cheating on me on the Sunday and ended it at 4am the next morning. Fuck, fuck. Hello, welcome back to the other than I'm Alex Light. And I'm in Clarkson. And we want to hear you good news out. My good, my good. I mean, I have been banging on about it, but I might as well bang on about a bit.

a little bit more. I have finally been relieved of my placenta. Only took nine months, but it's completely gone now, hopefully. I'm so happy for you. That's my good this week. You know, it was so funny because it was, it was, I said it on Instagram, you know, I'm finally percent of free. And I was looking through DM this morning and I was like, oh, people think that like they left the entire placenta in there. You also said it. You were like nine months for them to feel. I was like, you've had that thing in there for longer than nine months. You've had that thing in there for 18 months. 18 months. It was in there with Tommy and then it was in there without him.

How gross? Yes. But also, I'm so happy for you that it's gone and that it's over. I know, I know. And I am still bleeding, but that's okay because I think, I mean, no one actually told me if I was supposed to keep bleeding, but I think the day after I should still be bleeding. Oh, yeah, you had like surgery yesterday. I'm really annoyed because I was out of it. when the doctor came around to like tell me and she's just like yeah we removed a polyp and the remaining placenta I was like excuse me

and I didn't even ask like how big it was I want to know how big it was like did she take a picture what's a polyp? I think it's like a cyst I think oh okay God they found all sorts in there I know I know anything else like jumble sale I imagine it was absolutely tiny because if it had been any bigger

I think I would have been like dead at this point but well you were very lucky that it didn't get infected and actually the thing that I'm happiest for you about, I mean, well obviously the thing that I'm happiest for you about is that it's done because it's been horrible for you but also that you advocate for yourself but

it's also kind of a bad because it shouldn't have taken nine months of chronic bleeding with a risk of infection for you to have had this taken out. I know. And I know the NHS is overstretched but I do think when it comes to women

and particularly when it comes to gynie health, it is always pushed to the back of the queue. It just, yeah, it just didn't feel like a priority at all. It was kind of just like, oh, it's just what's what meant to happen. Like, oh, it's your postpartum, the body's crazy. And I was like, yeah, but it's been going on quite a long time now. Like, I keep coming back to you with the same problem. Like, I'm still bleeding.

There was nothing normal about that. I feel like blood's got to be taken seriously, right? I mean, I know we bleed anyway, but like not an extended amount of time like that. That's the problem. That's the problem. It's because we bleed anyway where they just think, Well, you're already bleeding a bit. What's a little bit more?

I know. It's already raining. And I was like, I was like gushing. Like, sorry, guys. I was like, it was bad. It was gushing. Like, you saw me like a little dog. I'd just like take my blanket around with me to sit to like put down on things because I was scared.

So yes, I'm happy for you in the sense of like that the health risk is minimized. I'm happy for you that you're going to be more comfortable. I'm happy for you that you're going to save a fortune on sanitary products. I'm happy for us and the furniture. the studio, you no longer need to sit on a blanket to record our episodes. There was that one day when it was so bad. Like, I was changing a pad, like, literally every half an hour. And I was like, we'd recorded an episode.

And I kept my legs so crossed. Like, I hadn't, I was just, like, tensing everything. I was so scared. But, you know, when you're, like, you stand up and look back. I was so scared. And I was like, oh, my God, it's still white. Thank God. Thank God.

It's still white. Oh, wow. I'm so happy that it's over. This is a big Monday morning chat for a lot of people who didn't necessarily want it. I know. I know. Gushing. Can we go straight into my awkward though, which happened at the surgery? Oh, yes. I was hoping you'd have a gyna logical awkward for me. They're my favourite. So the elutatist who was putting in the cannula, she said to me, I still don't know why she said this,

because it doesn't really, it doesn't make any sense at all, but she said, are you really fit? Okay, doesn't make sense. I still don't know why she asked that, but I was, um, had an oxygen mask on. I was like a little bit scared. I was a bit like, oh God, like I'm suddenly, scared that I'm not going to wake up and I was not really with it and I thought well I heard do you have a rabbit because I thought and then in my head I was like oh it's because she's seen you know like Betty is Betty is a black dog and she leaves black hairs all over me so I was like she's seen the black hairs on me she's looked at them and gone do you have a rabbit so I looked at her and where are the black hairs well I thought they would be on my arm or something I was like so I like through my oxygen mask said no just a dog she was like excuse me and I was like wait what did she ask and she said are you really fit and I was like oh no no next but do you have a dog and then she was like okay then bye and I was like wait wait am I going to wake up and she just laughed and then I went to sleep and that was that we're all in your imagination now you're still asleep I know so

If I have to bring you good, I'll say I really like my new hair, which is brown. But otherwise, I just have a plethora of browns, browns of bards, to be honest, I think. It's been a tough, it's been a tough week. I, mostly am upset that people are still adamant that my hair is not brown. And I actually, I'm trying, I'm trying to be chill. I'm trying to be chill. I cannot be chill. It's driving me more, like, it's driving me more insane than it should be doing.

But I feel like I'm being gaslit. I think people are trying to wind you up. Do you think? Because it's working. I think they are. I've never known gatekeeping like this in my life. And I think somebody hit the nail on the head, which is that a lot of people who are very blonde as children

have gone darker as adults. And they don't want to admit to themselves that they are now brunette. They still think of themselves as blonde. So they therefore, are quite gatekeeping when it comes to letting people in. That's the only thing I can think, because otherwise, this makes no sense.

But surely those people might just try dyeing their hair blonde rather than sort of clinging to... I don't know what's going on. And it's weird, because the only other time I ever sort of hang out in the hair community is when I'm in the curly girl groups, because my natural hair is curly. And the curly people are very welcoming. And every time anyone sees like a hint of a curl in my hair, I always get a DM going,

oh my God, this is how you can make your hair color. I love this. Like, your hair's probably curly than you realize. And you've got people pulling you in. So the curls put the brunettes, they don't want you. Oh my God. So it's a really friendly community, the curl community. The curl community, friendliest in the world, most inclusion.

They want everybody in there. The bitchy brunettes. They are. They are. They're just, they're not bitchy. They're exclusive. And you really have to like prove, prove yourself to get in there. That's why I'm. learning. Do you have any bads? I listen to podcasts as like when I go to sleep I listen to

podcasts and when I wake up in the middle of the night I listen to podcasts but I always put a timer on right always smart always put a timer on and I like I always gauge it pretty well like I kind of know how long I've got before I'm going to be asleep so I'm pretty good at that anyway last night I didn't put the timer on by accident I fell asleep and I just forgot first sleep and like my podcasts played through like all old podcast that I'd like once listened to and like new episodes of them, it landed on a crime podcast. Anyway, I had my dreams the entire night were me trying to turn off the noise in my ears. Oh, well, that's not so bad.

I thought it's going to be like the dreams were the truck, the crimes. No, no, no. And then we had a live show. Let me guess. Let me guess. Em didn't show up. No. And didn't ring a mic.

You were there. I was barely there because I couldn't concentrate because I had, and it was a crime podcast. that it ended up on. I don't listen to a crime podcast, but I obviously at one point I've listened to a show called Criminal and I'm hearing about death and blood and a girl being murdered

and I'm like, I'm on stage with you and I'm like, I can't do this M, I can't turn it off. I can't turn it off. And I was trying, I was clicking the pause button so much and it just wouldn't turn off. So that was horrible. You want to tell us one of your bads

or multiple of your bad? I have so many bats. Yeah, a barrel three. My brother's gone. My brother's moved to Australia. That was awful. It was absolutely awful. I'm very sad.

Not okay. It was probably the worst day ever On the day he left This is a small bad I'm barely doing my bad On the day he left We went to a pub And they didn't have any veggie options

So I asked if I could just have some roast On the side Because they were only meat roast I was like could I just have some roast And they said no You're doing okay You can't have any potatoes You have to have the meat

And I was like But I don't eat meat and they're like And then you can't have the potatoes I was like what's happening And I've just never been so dumbfounded In my life I was like well that's me then So I just didn't eat

well I couldn't eat anyway I was only going to eat the potatoes and then my mum said don't know my darling you can have one of mine and the lady said okay have hers and then when it came out all the beef gravy was all over her never mind don't want to get into it

so it was a sad goodbye lunch and then what was the third one oh yeah someone crashed into my car you're joking I know I know I know I know I know I said why couldn't you just have stolen it again at least then it's off my hands it's not about but very suspiciously

my friend Sarah crashed her car at the weekend And I'm like, right, so you crashed your car and someone's crashed into my car. I'm joining dots here. So it was hit and run. You don't know who crashed into it? No. It's all just scratched up at the front.

That is so bad. That is so bad. I know, I know, I know. But I feel like I can't really complain because there's an Aston Martin outside. I've seen a Nasson Martin today that I drove past earlier and someone's scraped all the side of it and I thought, well, I'd be very upset if I had an Aston Martin

and someone had done it. So at least I don't have, that's my silver lining. Okay. Okay. I didn't have enough to Martin. Fuck whoever crashed into you though and ran off. That's bad. Anywho.

Oh my God. I'm excited about today's guest. What a guest? What an interview? I honestly, we've wanted to get Michelle on the podcast for so long and you'll hear why in a minute. She's had a hectic summer. So it was a long time in the making and it was everything we hoped it would be and more. I had a spring in my step when I left the studio, you know.

She like, she made me feel so empowered, even though a lot of actually probably remember. most of what she talked about doesn't really apply to me on my situation. But she's just, I don't know, she just turned me around. She made me feel so empowered. I absolutely, I'm obsessed with her. For anybody who is dating, for anybody who's had a tough breakup, for anybody looking for any sort of like positive spin on a tough situation, this is the episode for you.

Michelle Elman speaks very candidly about her engagement ending earlier this summer and I guess about the months subsequently and how she's lived and how she's coached and healthy. She's thrived and it was just an amazing conversation. How she's had her hot girl summer. Brat, baby. We can't relate. Pratt's over. Don't say that anymore. Come on. Didn't start for us. It did not start for us. To be fair, I really didn't. Well, guys, here is Merschelle. Enjoy. Hi, Michelle. Hi. How are you? Good. How are you doing? You were good. We wanted to lock this down all summer. But you've been a busy girl. I have been very busy, but

also think it was partially that and partially me being emotionally ready to talk about like anything. So I kind of hid away this summer, but I didn't hide away doing nothing. I had a hot girl summer instead. That summer came at a good time for you. I literally went, pause my career, start my social life and just had honestly a summer that I genuinely think I will tell my kids about one day. Like I will, it was one of those summers where I was like, wow, when I look back to like my 30s, I will imagine this. this summer. Aww.

I can't always hear about it. Well, I think it's one of those things where, like, people assume the sadness after a breakup. And I was just like, no, I deserve joy more than anyone. Like, not more than anyone, but more than a lot of people. And I was like, I'm just going to get whatever joy I can get out of this summer, whatever peace I can get. And just like, there's something about what happened in my life that just puts everything

in perspective. and I was like, I don't care. Like, I just don't care about anything. I don't care about anyone's opinions. I don't care about what I have to do on my to-do list. I'm going to live my life. And also, there was a thing where I was like, I've been working for a decade now.

And I was like, 10 years of working without a solid holiday for probably more than like a week, I deserve a break. I deserve a time off. And I, like, properly took a month off this summer, which was the best decision I, ever made. If you'd have asked yourself at the beginning of the summer, if you thought the summer would have been that good, I'm guessing the answer would have been no, because you

had a horrible shock at the beginning of this year, which a lot of people know about. Well, the funny thing is, if you'd ask me that, depending when you asked me that, if you asked me that in January, I would have said, yes, this summer will be the best summer in my life, because for those who don't know, I got engaged, but the plan was we were going to elope this summer. So we were have a very short engagement and we had kind of already planned in a very unconventional way kind of already planned the wedding before we got engaged so that was what I saw this year looking like I'd been trying for a baby for six months so I definitely foresaw that this year and I got engaged on the Saturday found out he'd been cheating on me on the Sunday and ended it at 4 a.m. the next

morning and it was one of those moments in life where it's like before and after like I was like nothing will ever be the same and like not just in our relationship but like who I am as a person and I've never had a moment in my life where like your whole future just shatters overnight and like any I'm a planner like I know where my life is going and even in my career like I've always been like five year goal, 10 year goal. And I literally was like, you have no answers right now. Stop trying to look for answers. We live hour by hour. And that is literally what I did from April 13th until, to be honest, until now, I'm still living hour by hour. I'm like, just get through the next day. Oh, bloody hell. A fucking whirlwind. Oh my God, you poor thing.

That is like, that is literally the definition of like life turned upside down overnight, isn't it? Well, some more context around it is the fact that that engagement photo was actually the first time I'd shared my partner, which is why it was revealed on my engagement photo because I'd had a partner for three years, but I'd never shared him because I have enough friends in this industry. I've seen people go through public breakups. I've never personally wanted to go through one. And silly me thinking that an engagement meant something or a ring meant something at something. uncertainty of like, great, okay, this person's going to be in my life. And so in posting the photo, it was also showing his face for the first time, which is how the woman who DMed me, who was a follower of mine, had literally DM'd me back in 2021 before I'd even met him, thanking me for his, for my books, actually thanking me because she was so insecure around dating and I gave her the confidence to date, which was the irony. But it's also why, like, a lot of

people are like, you know, the stereotype of the Hey Girlie DM, like, why would you believe them? And I was like, because it wasn't, it was someone I had replied to and said, thank you so much, really appreciate your support. And she was like, I tell all my friends about you. And this was like, months before I met him. And then it was the fact I shared the photo, he, she recognized him from the photo and sent me a message and was like, hey, and it was about an hour after I'd posted it. Oh my God. And yeah, I've been through some shit. Like I've had 15 surgeries. I've had I've lived through the tsunami in Phuket, like, in 2004. Like, I have been through some shit, and I have never had experience in my life where, like,

I didn't eat for, like, I think it was a week. Like, I was having, like, nibbles and people were forcing me to eat things. But, like, the first night, I think I slept for one hour. I pretty much, like, my sleep, my eating, just to say you, I was in shock was not really, like, it doesn't sum it up. Like, it's just. There were days I just stared out of the window and just my brain was trying to just exist. Were you with him when you received that DM?

So we were actually on the phone to his brother because we had told my, so we had told everyone we knew the day before when the day we got engaged. But that morning we told my family because my family are in Hong Kong and so they were all asleep by the time we'd got engaged. And then we spoke to his brother because his brother was in a pub when we had called him. So we were having a proper conversation. and the message simply was like, hey, is your fiancé and his name? I'd had that message before. I'd actually had that message from a family friend. So I actually thought it was a colleague.

Like, oh, one of his colleagues happens to follow me and is like, just put the dots together. Yeah. Like, I trusted him so much that there was no part of me that thought it was weird. Even to the point where he went to the bathroom straight after, came back, I was like, I was just sick. And I went, oh, no, did you eat something? And then we carried on watching Grey's Anatomy. I literally didn't think twice about it.

Like, I mean, you guys get tons of DMs. Like, you see a DM, you see it for a moment. And then we were two minutes into watching Grey's Anatomy. I paused in it. It was like, oh, by the way, who is that person? There was a high chance I would have forgotten about it. Like, oh, she didn't say in the DM. She didn't say it.

She just said, this is. She just said, is this and his name? God, there's so many sliding doors there. It's like, you could have not opened the message. Also, what are the chances that of all the DMs I've got, I actually had replied to her four years ago. But also, can you imagine my DMs on the day? I had announced my engagement

but also shown the number of DMs the chance I saw that and the fact that it came into the like primary section where my family and friends there was a real feeling of I'm being protected and like I have I've always been a little bit spiritual but like there was something like I was

it's the worst thing to find out the day after you get engaged that he's cheating on you but it's what's worse it's finding out the day after you get married and I was almost not going to share that photo. I was going to share when we got married because we were only going to, we were going to do it this summer anyway. We're going to lope and it was going to be a quick

thing and because I didn't want to, because I'm writing a friendship book, I'm writing chapters about bridesmaids and all of that stuff and it was just all in my head and I was like, I don't want to do this to my friendships. And so I was like, I was writing this book and I was like, I just, I can't, whenever we talked about weddings, I was like, I don't want to go through the picking of maid of honour, like dissect ranking, friendships, all of that started feeling really like unhealthy to me. So we had, we were, we basically had decided we were eloping that summer. So I was actually just going to wait for the wedding photo. I was just, I was just so glad I found. I just, I couldn't thank her more.

Like, it was such a brave thing for her. Like, I'm going to get emotional, but like, it's such a brave thing for her to do Temestry. Like, as she, like, really just, like, save her. me like but I I don't even know if I would have had the bravery to message someone that because it could have flipped on her like I am fully aware it could have flipped on her and I could have been like out of like shared the screenshot like you want to ruin my engagement obviously like you know me like I'm not that kind of person but she doesn't know me like she followed me but she didn't know like that I wouldn't react that way but yeah an amazing woman who also like stayed on the phone with me for an hour and told me like

all the information which at that point was so important because like I just didn't believe a word he said at that point so I was like I need to hear like I really like need to hear it from you like what's happened and it must be a shock for her too yeah and also she like whenever because we spoke a few times and she was like honestly you've just all you've done is help my love life and I feel awful for ruining yours and I was like you didn't ruin mine you saved me No, she's, she, in a weird way, like, blessing in disguise,

gave you a kind of gift in a, yeah, a very disguised kind of way. Yeah, no, but genuinely. And also, it's why if you're ever in that position, I'm always, like, just tell them, even if they react badly, just, like, give them the option to know, because I was one of the ones who did want to know. Did he come clean when you said to him, who's this, let's just message me? Initially, no. Or was it her that had to tell you?

It took about an hour, two hours. So she initially messaged that and then an hour later she sent screenshots but he had already been acting weird to the like that I was like what's happening here like and I mean I like to think I'm an emotionally intelligent woman like I was like why are you acting so weird

like and I yeah it was about an hour of like that and then she had sent this the dating profile and he then admitted to another one and then later that day I admitted to the third one so fuck dude you must have known this was going to happen when you posted

photo of his face no it sounds really silly because the story has blown up so much now but I did not live a public life I had a public profile but I have never had paparazzi outside my house I've taken him to public events

I took him to the James Bond premiere like on our fifth day I took him to like I've taken him to so many public events he came with me to the Brits. There was one time a paparazzi did take a photo of us and I asked him to delete it and he did because that photo was not going to sell for anything. No one gives a shit who I am, frankly.

It was only after this. They cared who he was and they cared who I was. But no one, we didn't live a public life. So I think, yes, it's a number on a screen of how many followers I have on Instagram or TikTok. But like, unless you're walking through the street and being stopped regularly, I don't think it's something in the forefront of your mind

unless that's your lived experience. And the other two women he cheated on me with were in other countries, like, I don't know, potentially doesn't even speak English. Like, whereas this was one person who was in the UK. So she literally was the one person who, like, I mean, the odds of following me are higher, considering majority of my following are UK 20 to 30s. So in my head, it actually was only her who could have told me. Also, there was nothing within the relationship that would have been a clue. I mean, I'm not the kind of person to go on his phone, but there was nothing on his phone anyway

because he deleted it all. There are many reasons why people cheat. Sometimes it's the relationship, but sometimes it's themselves and their issues. And then also on the other side, some people want to be found out and some people don't want to be found out. He was the kind of person who didn't want to be found out.

Like, it's not the fact he wanted out of the relationship. Obviously, he wouldn't have proposed if he wanted out of the relationship. You know how sometimes people cheat almost as like the coward's way to like then be the way that you end it. I mean, I do think it was a version of self-destruction, but I don't think he actually wanted out of the relationship. And I don't think our relationship was the issue. I think he was dealing with demons, for lack of a better word,

and he didn't deal with it in a very good way. But where I fall down on it is, like, when it comes to infidelity, is like the decision you make of whether to say or not is not about whether you love them, because that's no question. I probably still love him, probably always will, and I have no doubt he loves me. But it's whether he's going to change.

And I just knew he wouldn't. And I just knew he wouldn't because it was three people. He was never going to tell me. Like, I actually think he would have done it again, probably on his next business trip, which was literally the next day. And I think that's the deciding factor of whether you stay rather than how much you love someone.

Because if it's how much you love someone 90% of the time, you will stay. because the love has to exist. It was a three-year relationship. And I think a lot of my healing and a lot of my peace, even from the beginning, I think people wanted me to be really angry and I'm just not, like,

because he gave me more than he took away. And I know that's a, like, narrative that doesn't want a lot of space in the media because people kind of want me to hate him. But I think people get worried when I say things like that because they're like, don't go back to him. And I'm like, no, I can, Say I love him.

Yeah. I can say I do think for whatever I knew of the relationship, whether it was like, what he started cheating in the last like six months, whether the first two years were real, like the whole three years were real, whatever it was. I don't see the purpose in that.

Like trying to go through this process is really trying to not demonize him, but also not put him on a pedestal and like ignore the truth of it. It's actually trying to keep the good and the bad and not, he's not this evil man like he was a guy who was doing his best who made a really big mistake

that has really big consequences but I forgave him pretty instantly I just can't stay God you're so pragmatic and it's felt like that because you're right the trope of like the scorned woman in this situation and the other woman in this situation

you know we have this like preconception of how we want you to play your part and her to play her part and everybody to play their part because that's what we've grown up with and that's like the John Tucker must die and that's all like the rom-coms and everything that we established this kind of like the package.

The patriarchy. Well, yeah. The patriarchy wants me to hate her but it's not her fault. She thought she was single. He's the only one who had any loyalty to me or duty to me. Yes, potentially as a woman,

you have duty to other women, but she didn't know. So then she actually had no duty at all. The moment she knew, she told me, Like, even if she knew, it's so much easier to blame the other woman because the person who should be blamed is the person in the relationship. But that hurts like hell. I know better than anyone.

And we don't want to do that. Like, we don't want to shadow the world and the world we live in and realize that we could have potentially been living a lie. I don't believe I was living a complete lie. Like, none of this is black and white. It's all nuance and all complexity. Like, even this idea of, of like, well, how much of my relationship was a lie?

Can I still call it a healthy relationship? Because I was proudly calling it a healthy relationship online for three years. Like, the irony of that. Trust me, there are a million posts on my page that you can go back and throw in my face right now. And I've got to laugh because, like, I only knew what I knew. And, like, I didn't know what was being hidden under the surface. And all I can do and what anyone else can do is make the right decision with the information and knowledge you have, which I back myself fully in terms of that.

Like, I am a person who knows my worth. I am a person who knows what I deserve, like, the respect I stand for. And I am stronger than I even knew. There are times this year where other people have questioned my profession because I'm a life coach and like, how did you not know and all this rubbish? But like, I'm not a psychic. I'm not a mind reader. And if anything, I've proved that I am what I practice, what I preach, especially around

the boundaries, because of what I've done since. I can't control what he did. And you know what? Like, especially being a public figure, I will be accountable for anything that has come out on my mouth. But, like, I'm not going to be accountable for what someone did to me. And, like, I'm not going to be hiding in shame or embarrassed because I trusted a man who I shouldn't have.

That's all I'm guilty of. And I can own that. There is a sense of, like, like, people want you to be ashamed, or they want you to be embarrassed or they want, you know, there's this sort of thing that you go away and lick your wounds, but you didn't really do that. You came back online and explained the situation and have kind of lived very authentically and openly this summer.

I think it will have been more instrumental in helping people than you realize by showing what you have. But that must have been a lot. I think the thing is when someone says I was being brave or inspirational, all these words, I'm like, I don't know another way. And I didn't have the energy or the capacity to pretend. I've never been very good at pretending. I mean, you've known me personally.

It shows on my face when I'm pissed off or like whatever, every emotion is on my face. I don't know how to pretend anymore. I thankfully have a career where I've never had to pretend for the last 10 years, so I'm not very good at it either. Because also you have to remember, if I came back online and pretended, I had to come back online to congratulations messages.

And also, what happens in our world is I would be flooded with bridal brands, engagement, like all the things. Like, I arrived back at my doorstep because we weren't in our apartment. I arrived back to my doorstep with flowers on my door. Like, I was like, I don't know how to come back. And also, it's a core belief of mine that, like,

as a life coach, you lead from the front. And if I was going to share my happy moments, then I also have to show, like, the sad moments too. And it's very easy to lead from the front when you're, like, you're swinging from the rooftop and so happy. But, like, it's actually, you're showing more who you are when you're still leading from the front of like I've never said

I'm a perfect person I fuck up more than anyone in the world but like I I I I fix my shit like that's that's the thing I own that like I I'm trying my best I'm doing my best and I'll show you my mistakes so that you can learn from mine but also to show you that like it's a very human to have things go wrong and that's why like first of all it was frustrating in the three weeks that came offline because I hated the fact that he kind of affected my job, that I couldn't post online. I didn't know how to come back without being authentic. And then so I was like, well, then I have to address it. So I could have just put it up a statement of like, we are no longer together. Like, you know, the blanket, like, no screenshot. And then I was like, but it doesn't

feel like me. It doesn't feel right. And it doesn't feel. And every one of my friends was literally like don't do this this is too vulnerable you are literally putting your heart on the internet it will get stomped and you are too vulnerable right now and i was like what's the worst they're going to say genuinely like also i don't fucking care like at the end of the day i really don't care like i'm already living my worst hell right now you want to add to it go ahead see if there was a level of just not giving a shit like that after that had happened where i was like so judge me go ahead like you think you can hurt my feelings

but also like yeah you can think trust me the person who I would have said would never hurt my feelings just did it so like but also if you are judging me thank God you get to judge me because you're not living it that's actually ultimately where I came down on that and like actually the truth of it is like

everyone's like how do you not have trust issues and I was like because I could focus on the one man who hurt me or I can look into the comment section of 3,000 plus people I literally poured my heart out on the internet and the internet could have stumped on it and there's not a single negative comment and I was like, it's just proof

that the good outweighs the bad. Simultaneously you were getting, you were being, I guess you were being misconstrued or reported on in a way that you're not used to and wasn't nice. So I imagine it was very comforting having that your followers be as they were

which is so lovely and then you started sharing which again I think is so valuable because you started sharing that this summer you were dating your hot girl summer my hot girl summer so I think the thing is

I was still in shock and like I couldn't understand more than anyone else why I wasn't in a ball crying and I was like I'm just not that's not what I felt I could try to explain it because I'd just gone off

the pregnancy hormones and like that had been ruining my life for the last six months and like I mean you both know what trying for a baby's like it's not fun it's not sexy it was very mechanical like and i was liberated from that i had my health back for the first time in two years like suddenly i was feeling like energy and i had time because of the energy that i'd never had before and so yes i wanted

to be sad and i wanted to be crying but like and i wanted to be angry but i didn't feel any of that and all i could do was live authentically to how i was feeling and because of the baby making and how mechanical that is, there was a real part of me that had a violation around I was putting my body through hell while you took risks with my sexual health. So there was a part of me that wanted to reclaim my sexuality. But also, I've always loved being single and I've always loved dating. So if I have to be single again, why would I deprive myself of dating? It didn't actually start like that. What it actually started, so I had booked one of my dreams has always been to go on a solo holiday and I had booked this before any of this happened to go for a week

by myself. And it's because I thought I was going to be pregnant that I was like, well, I need to take this off before I have a child. So I had this week by myself and all I cared about was like a beach and a pool and all of my friends and family were like, don't go. Being alone right now is the worst thing you could do, I ended up going to Dubai and you can't do WhatsApp calls and you can't do FaceTime calls there. So like, not only was I on a solo holiday, but like I was two weeks out of my breakup and I couldn't call any of my friends or family. I was fine for the first like four days and then on the fifth day, I was like, I need human contact. So I went on a dating app and was like, I'll just talk to like, I'll just go on a date. And like, there was a part of me that

also had an element of fear of like, I'm 30 now, like dating in my. my 30s, I had those thoughts. And I was like, you know what, let's just rip the bandaid off. And like, I've always had a lot of like paranoia, not paranoia, it's actually quite accurate, but like worries around safety. And I was like, I'm in a hotel. I'm more safe than I've ever been. Like, if anything goes wrong, there are like loads of people and like we can go for a drink in the hotel bar and like all of that part was almost like cushion to, okay, let's just rip this bandaid off. Yeah. And then it wasn't a bandaid to rip off. It was just really fun. And then I was like, so I went on another date the next night.

Oh my God, I love. And then I went on another date the next night. And then this morning called and was like, you need to come back and like address this. Because I had such a fun time on one of the dates. So he left like the next morning and I was by the pool and I was like, God, this is amazing. And I felt so good. And I was texting him and I was like, I felt so good after the date. And he was like, oh, come back over tonight.

And I was like, screw it. And I wasn't going to post it while I was in Dubai. but I was like, screw it, I'm going to post it. And so I posted it, not realizing what was going to happen afterwards, which is why I then had fly it back early from Dubai to like address it because it had just like blown up. And there was something around me wanting it to be in my words if it was going to come out or like it was already being written about and I wanted to go on this morning and like

it be out of my mouth so that I can't be misconstrued. And like my video that I'd posted was a four minute video that I thought had explained enough of it but as like there was so much like speculations that I was like let me just come back and address it but um yeah the dating didn't stop when I came back so it was just you know what that entire summer I just the stories the guys I am so lucky to have met guys who just like gave me hope in men again and also I don't know why I got so lucky that like all of them were just like safe, lovely, compassionate, emotionally intelligent men. And I think I was very clear with all of them what I had just gone through because I believe in dating with transparency. And also, like,

I wasn't trying to get a long-term relationship out of it. Like, it was just fun dates. And I think because I was so transparent, they were really transparent with me. And all of these guys were going through some version of a transition. But like, they were all really emotionally intelligent. Like I remember with one guy, I sensed he was getting, I think sometimes when you talk about casual relationships, we feel like no, it's, it's said in a very trashy way where like, you have no obligation of care to each other. And I just, it's not how I date. Like, I think if you interact with any human, you should care about your impact on other people. And like, with one guy, we'd gone on one day and he was, he was saying like, yeah, 100%. I'm all up for this like casual

thing, but I was like, you're not behaving that way. And I was like, hey, I think, I think you might be falling a bit hard and he was like no you're right I felt guilty going on another day the other day and I was like I think we need to like call it before this gets more intense and he was just like thanks so much like this is a beautiful way to say bye like and thanks for being emotionally intelligent and calling it when I couldn't if my 80 year old could have seen like how beautiful because the stereotype is like you're like hey I'm not interested anymore when they go oh well you're fat anyway right and like but it was just far from like the abusive stereotype of like what this is why people go is because they're scared of the response right and it was just beautiful kind we had like a duty of care to each other

without it needing to be a serious relationship of like hey you're really vulnerable right now so like let me just because he had just come out of a divorce and I was like I think we need to pause this because I don't want you to get hurt and like I think we just need to like check where we are emotionally and like having those conversations I think dating in your 30s is even better than your 20s. Like, it's just transparency and communication 100%. Like I appreciate that I was probably quite lucky in the people I found. And there is a darker side of dating.

But I also think the way you are dictates how other people are. And if you're transparent and communicative, then it doesn't necessarily mean they'll behave that way. But you can get rid of them faster if they don't. We need to date in our 30s. Actually, I did date. date for me. I did a few dates in my 30s actually before I met my husband. I didn't even date in my 20s. Boring. Boring. I know. Boom. I got my 40s will be my time to shine. It's actually really nice to hear dating talked about like that or portrayed like that because I feel like we hear a lot

of horror stories. Well you know the funny thing is I used to be even more private about my dating life. Like I actually never mentioned anyone I was dating probably until about three years before my ex. And it was because I was on a panel for Valentine's Day. And every single person on the panel got asked about, it was all about Valentine's Day. It was all about love, dating, blah, blah, blah. Everyone got asked like wonderful questions and then it was my turn and I got asked about body shame and fetishization. I was getting frustrated already online with this whole narrative that like dating is awful, but then even more so for someone who looks like me. someone who's plus size, mixed race, someone like who has surgery scars, all of these things

that I wasn't being seen as like represented. And then what was worse was sitting on these panels and the assumption that my dating life was horrible. And I was like, oh, it couldn't be further from the truth. I've just never shared it. So I started talking about it and that's how like the term empowered dating was like and how what ended up being the selfish romantic. Because the whole concept of that was like, and the subtitle is like how to date without feeling bad about yourself. And that's actually why I started talking about it. But I still was very private about, like, I would share enough, but I wouldn't share details or any of that. The irony of the selfish romantic is I got the book deal two weeks before I got into a relationship.

So I never got to talk about that book the way and show that I practice what I preach and that it wasn't just a book about how amazing dating could be. But I actually think dating is amazing. and that you just meet fascinating people and people are interesting and even if the people aren't interesting you can have really fun dates and that was another thing that I did this summer was like I didn't want boring dates

like so I went and played arcade games with one I had a squash date with another the squash date was like genuinely one of my favorite dates and it was just flirty and fun and it was living life together experiencing life together and just not accept

that it had to be of this boring sat down at a pub, like have two drinks and then go home experience. Did you have any negative experiences? The first guy left in the middle of the date. The middle of the date? In the middle of the date. You did? No, he did. He did.

He did without saying bye. You're joking. He did text me after I went on this morning and was like, hey, I saw you all this morning. I'm really sorry for leaving without saying bye, which I was like, oh, it's so funny that you think I deserve an apology now. Because you've seen me on this morning. Yeah. That's so rude.

Where did he go? But you know what? I didn't, again, like, when I say, like, you couldn't hurt me, you genuinely, I laughed. I checked my laptop was still there because I thought, like, he left him, he left so quickly that I was like. He's talking my stuff. Did he say, I'm going to the toilet? I went to the toilet. Yeah.

And then I heard, like, the door closed. And I was like, okay. Bye. But I always think. So one of my, like, ethoses around dating is if you have a bad date, you have to go on another, which is why, like, the next day in Dubai, I went on another. And the next guy was incredible. Like, I saw him for the next two nights in Dubai, and, like, we've texted since.

And, I mean, all of the guys I've texted since, even if we're not dating, we've, we've stayed in touch or whatever else. But it was that thing of just, like, I was Teflon. Like, I did, nothing could touch me. I was like, ha, funny. Like, I was like, I was so scared to date my 30s and this is my first experience. but in my head like so one of the things I talk about a lot is not going on a date with the goal of a relationship and so before I went on the date because I knew I was vulnerable and I was like okay why do I want to go on a date and I was like first of all I want just want human contact at this point but second of all I want to rip the band-aid off

third of all I want to tell I want to show myself this is not going to be scary I'd had a conversation with the guy I'd had a nice time I thought it was good conversation God knows why he left but also because Because of what happened with my ex, I just took, there's no reflection of me on it. You leaving during a good date, doesn't matter how boring I was or how much you were hating the date. There is no person I know in my life who would walk out of a date without saying bye. Yeah, that's so rude. That's a hundred percent a reflection of you, your coping mechanisms and your way of

communicating because like, sorry, why am I taking away anything from, like, I'm not going to take away. This is the problem because like if you've had negative datings, uh, negative experiences in dating, you go, like, God, I was awful, you take it. I was like, wait, why are we caring about his opinion? He's a guy who left in the middle of a date. What's wrong with you?

You're an adult. He was 40 years old and he left in the middle of a date. What's wrong with you? Like, talk to me. Just be like, I'm not interested. Leave. Grow up. See, this is essentially.

That's the reframe that we all need, that everyone needs. Because I think for someone who was like less pragmatic and less sensible, less rational and maybe had a, you know had was struggling with like low self-esteem that would have been a horrifying first foray back into dating that would have scarred them you know yeah but I love that reframe that actually it was like that was everything to do with him if you do enough you will have bad experiences though that is just right and that's that's the end of it and like it's up to you whether you decide that to be your deciding factor and it's like you both have called me logical

and rational like I am the most emotional person in the world but like I am not letting a complete stranger control my emotions. I guess where someone would get sensitive around that is the rejection. I'm a very high bar for what counts as rejection because I'm like, you don't know me. You've only met me for like two hours so you don't get to reject me. Like, you're coward. You walked out at the middle of the day. I now don't respect you. I don't care about your opinion. Yeah. But let's fix this so that this is not my remaining. Like, because I didn't want this to be my like experience of dating going forward so I was like great back on the date I was only talking to two other guys on the dating apps anyway so I had them lined up it was just I had to

put them into action and I was like great wonderful oh my god oh my god it's such a healthy reframe and I just can't relate to I know I know I want you as my dating coach for my non-existing dating life my god I'm married yeah wow okay so you got straight back on the horse essentially and the guy I met the next night was just we laughed about it and I told him about it I told everyone about it because I found it hilarious that I was like I found it even more hilarious when he texted me like a month later being like hey I saw you on this morning it wasn't even right up the most embarrassing part of the whole thing so embarrassing and also it's not even that he texted me like the day I was on it it was like a month after I'd been on it and I was like God how long have you been thinking about me that you've been like working up the courage to send this message and I think it was probably a concern that I was going to say something publicly about him like or something because I'm like why would you resurface whatever it is anyway I had better things to think about but it did amuse me when I got that message or not like how funny I love how you like think and just like goes oh it must be nice it's taken a lot

of work though like I like you know what so many times like I think even when we were talking about Like, so many people have said to me, like, your body confidence is unrealistic, blah, blah, blah, like, I've even had friends be like, oh, you're not just body positive. You're like body positive. Like, you don't just like preach this stuff. You live this stuff. But like, you have to look at it in the context of I've had 15 surgeries. I've had brain tumors. I've had like punctured intestine. It's like, I really have a check on what's important in life. And that sounds like a very up myself statement. But actually, like, that's all you can do. in these situations of like what matters what doesn't matter am i going to be thinking about this guy and to be honest if you do it enough it's not actually a lot of work for me to think this way anymore because this just is who i am i'm pretty much the poster childs for do the work before the crisis hits because i wouldn't be okay right now if i hadn't learned all of this in life coaching sessions for the last 10 years and also i'm qualified and trained so i have everything in my favor to be okay right now.

And I understand the comments where people say like your confidence is unrealistic is because like it makes them feel like they're not doing the breakup good enough or they're not healing fast enough or they're not ready to date. Like I get messages from people being like it's been five years and I'm not ready to date.

And like to those people I'm like, whatever you are doing is perfect for you. Right. Like how I've shared my journey is not me judging you in any way. I'm just sharing what's authentic to me and you need to do what's right for you and that's essentially what I've been saying the whole time.

It's like, I understand why people thought it was too soon to date. I know myself. Like, I really, I've, whilst everyone's been throwing, like, why didn't you see the red flags? Why didn't you see the warning flags? I've had to hold my self-concept really close to my chest of like, I am an intelligent woman. I am an emotionally intelligent woman as well.

And like, I am not stupid. when people kept asking these questions I was a bit like I know myself like I can't tell you why I feel ready to date sooner than most other people do but what I can tell you is I am

and I can also tell you I'm not dating and I haven't been on a date in three months because what was what ended up being the timing was I handed in the book I was writing bad friend that is coming out next year and all the emotions crash

so there clearly was a part of survival mode that my my body was like I've I've kept calling it titration so like usually my emotions are floods I'm like most people say I'm the most emotional person they know like I am crying all the time like I have big feelings both high and low um but this was different it was like I could I could I could cry for like two minutes and then I could I couldn't it was like it was short circuit and I found it so frustrating because I've never experienced emotions like that because usually I just like cry for an entire weekend and then I pick myself up on a Monday and I'm fine. So to only cry for like two minutes, I was like, let it come out. But also I was

like, I don't want it in my body. Like I want this out. And it did come out. It just took like four months. But like when it crashed, every guy I was dating, I was like, hey, I needed some time for myself. Like, I'm not okay right now. And I just needed my time and energy to focus on me. And I'm still in that place and I don't know when I'm going to feel ready to date again but like this is kind of what I mean by I held it to my chest the fact that like I'm emotionally intelligent is like I know myself I know when I'm ready to date and I know when I'm not and I listen to that but that doesn't mean my journey should be your journey or that I'm judging your journey in any way I'm also not judging the women who choose to stay because like I had a number of circumstances that allowed me to leave

including the fact that like I had financial privilege I was not financially dependent on him I had my own apartment, like, so many things that made it easier, I didn't have kids involved, like so many things that made it easier for me to leave and leave as quickly as I did. Yeah, I guess that's a lot, that's an unusual situation that you're in where you have to manage or be aware of other people putting their stuff onto you. And, but it, again, with the perspective, it's probably quite cathartic in a way to, to look at the situation from a sort the birds of you. I feel like I have to do that with my life sometimes where because of what we do you kind of have to just like zoom out and look at it from how everyone else is saying it

and then you can establish what's right and you know what's right for you and it has felt following you through this time because obviously as as a follower it's like it was it was such a shock we were shocked I can't imagine how you were feeling but you know like obviously when you did that video because we because we don't see that online we We don't see people. And you've always said, as long as I've known you, you've always said you share your scars, not your wounds, which I think is beautiful and does encapsulate a lot of how the internet works,

really. Very often people want to heal. And I think it's generally, as a rule of thumb, quite a sensible thing, is that you heal first, then talk about it. Oh, 100%. Don't do it my way. Don't recommend. Well, that was what was kind of amazing,

was that you were just doing it back to front this time. Yeah, so it was the first time I was living in my wound. And in my head, I had no choice because I didn't want to lie. And I didn't want to add to the lies. I think something about infidelity was always like, enough lies. Like, I'm not a liar. I've never been a lie. I've been very authentic through my whole life.

And I find it hard to lie, actually. Like, in fact, my life would probably be easier if I could lie a little bit because I get in trouble because I tell the truth too much when people don't want to hear it, which is also boundaries. So Glenn and Doyle calls it like sharing from the, messy middle and it is messy and like that's the thing where like I wouldn't be surprised if there were people in the last six month who looked at my page being like she is crazy and I was like you know what maybe maybe I might look back at this year and be like wow I was not in my right

state of mind I was not sane but would it be more insane to not be a little bit insane after what just happened to right yeah yes it was remarkable circumstances it wasn't yeah yeah it wasn't like an average thing to happen to someone. Like I think anyone who judges how someone survives something like this, just be lucky you're not in the position. Like that's my point of view of like you can judge how someone coats, but at the end of the day, I've been obsessed with Grey's Anatomy my whole life

and there's a quote by Meredith Cary. I wanted to laugh when you said that you were watching Grace Anatoe, I was like, Michelle, how many times have you watched Grey's Anatomy now? 12. Oh my God. Genuinely. But also, it's getting to a problem because I'm writing things. things that are actually Grey's Anatomy and not realising it. So when I came off this morning,

I said, like, that this morning team held me together with tape and glue. And the whole comment section was like, taping glue, Grey's Anatomy. I was like, oh, I thought that was my original thought. But it's just Gracentatomy, oozes out of me. But one of the things Meredith Grace says, basically the male main character ends it with her. And then she starts sleeping with people. And she said, I make no apologies for healing what you broke. You don't get to call me a And like that's kind of been my mental, especially when I got essentially slut shame for dating so soon after. Did you?

And I was like, I don't know whether it's called slut shaming, but it was very much like. I'd say so, because they wouldn't be doing it to a man. Yeah. 100%. But also you wouldn't, there are too many instances where the person who gets cheated on when they're a woman gets judged. 100%. And I think I have been the perfect example of that.

I am very lucky and grateful to be resilient enough. What upsets me is seeing someone who's being cheated on, seeing what was said about me and then applying it to themselves. Can I read you a headline actually that I saw yesterday, apropos of nothing. I screen grabbed it just because I was angry and it's just not irrelevant to what we're talking about. Daily Mail headline yesterday.

This is one of their top articles at top. Here's why I left my wife and my mistress and here's what my ex could have done to make me stay. And I was like, that is everything wrong? with how we view infidelity within relationships. But also it's, this idea, there are a few, like, rules in my head. This is the very much, like, life coach in me where I was like, there are rules in my head. One, that I couldn't have done anything different.

Second of all, if you wanted to, like, there is nothing that excuses infidelity. If you want to leave the relationship and the relationship, like, fine. But to betray someone like that, there is no reason. But once you start playing this dangerous game of if only I did this, or maybe it's because, I wasn't good enough or maybe it's because I mean women are so sex shamed around this like maybe you didn't sleep with him enough I was like we were trying for a baby we were having plenty of sex trust me like like but why why is our first assumption even the question were there red flags I started getting pissed off with that statement because I was like stop asking me why there are

red flags and ask why he cheated ask why he is a red flag like not why you've got to keep looking for him it's like well I I wouldn't label him as a red flag that's because you're much healthier than me, Michelle, I'll label him to the red flag because I haven't done the work. You know what? I've had to let my friends have whatever worse they want because I'm like, you know what? It doesn't help me, but do whatever you need to do. But I do think even the concept of red flag, it's as if like we live in these boxes of like green flag and red flag go on TikTok and that will very much reinforce that mentality. But all of those TikTok trends, especially around dating, this is why like I get so wound up by the TikTok advice around dating. Because if I, all of those very, all of those

videos of like three green flags to look out for in the one you're dating. I watched all of them in my relationship. I hit all of them. The number of times I scroll down a news feed and they're like, my man helps, my man helps a woman with her suitcase. This is why I'm in love with him. My guy did that too. Like my guy has never walked past a stranger on the tube and not helped with a suitcase. Like he was that guy. Like at times I used to get insecure that I wasn't as selfless as he was, because if I do anything, I need a thank you. Like, like, that is just, that's me being self-aware. Like, it's true. Like, I, I, I'm a good person. I like to think I'm a good person, but I also need a thank you. Like, I like appreciation. Appreciation's a very high

value of mine. And in our relationship, I used to be like, God, you're so good. And how are you so good and not needing a thank you? And like, I can't do anything without a thank you. I wish I could, but I can't. And I get resentful if I don't get a thank you. And like, he, matched all those criteria. So if you wanted to go through the TikTok list of all the green flags you look for, he matched all of that, which is why I'm living with such whiplash. Because I was like, I think unfortunately, sometimes people are so outwardly a gentleman to disguise their second life. God, you're probably right. Yeah, who can you trust? No, you can't twist it that way. We're talking about the reframes. You can't turn that into negative. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I think even just

listening to your stories and listening to you talk about dating will have been helpful for so many people who are single and trying to date, finding dating hard. But I wonder if we could like finish this episode with your advice to people who are struggling with dating, who are who don't feel very confident dating for, I mean, a plethora reasons, you know, someone who just come out of a relationship, a long-term relationship or someone who doesn't feel comfortable in their body. Like what is your advice to them to, to just feel more confident and be able to get themselves out there and kind of, I guess, like worry less about rejection. I think what's funny is my long-term relationship made me

date better because if you are in a long-term relationship, the way someone sees you is, I mean, he saw me through eye surgery, he saw me like drunk at times, like the way someone sees you, their attraction to you cannot be fragile. And so if, if, you. you think the difference in how you pose on your dating app is going to be the deciding factor of whether they find you attractive or not, then they need to go. Like, that person needs to find you attractive 10 pounds heavier, 20 pounds heavier, if you become disabled. If so many things can change. For me, it's more surgery scars. Like, if I get hospitalized, like, there are so many things that happen in life, whether it's like losing your parents or grief or mental health

problems that if you run because someone's gained a little weight, then please keep running. Like the last thing you should be thinking about is like the aesthetic part of it. And so like if you are on dating apps, so I'd say a few things around dating apps. One, you don't have to love being on dating apps the same way that in a business, you don't have to love sending the invoice, but you want to get paid, then send the invoice. Like you want a date, go on a dating app. That's just relatable. But also like stop bitching and moaning about dating apps and then not dating in real life either. Like, you have to pick one at this point. Date in real life, go ahead. But like, then you can complain. But don't complain and do nothing about it. Like, it drives me up the

wall. Then also, if you are worried about going on a date and worrying, oh, well, they might not like me. They might not look like. I might look different to my pictures is something I hear a lot. Then put on flattering photos on your dating app. Like this idea of first impressions where you're meant to be the, like, you're meant to put your best foot forward. I have a million photos of me from professional photo shoots with the best makeup artists in the world. I don't put that on my dating profile because the reality of dating me is that 50% of the time, actually 90% of the time I'm makeup free. So 90% of my dating profile pictures are makeup free. If you're worried about looking bigger in person, put a photo where you look bigger, where you look 10 pounds bigger.

The thing that's going to destroy your confidence is going on that date with that mentality. So even if you've set a higher bar of like, well, this is me at my biggest, then the point is to get rid of that thought because if you go on a date and they find you attractive and you still have this thought of like, oh, but they're still not attractive to me. It doesn't matter what that person does. You're never going to believe that they're attracted to you. And then the final thing I say, and like it's something that my life coach, Michelle Zellie has taught me, but like is something an hour I use for everything. It's a hundred reasons why someone wants to date you. I do this for everything. A hundred reasons why someone would want to be my agent.

A hundred reasons why I'm a great public speaker. And when I say 100, they were like, don't you mean 10? And I'm like, no, I mean 100. And I mean sit there until you can come up with 100. And if you pause at 50, keep sitting there until 100 come out. And if you get up from that chair, you are telling yourself that you are not worth the time to sit there and finish that list. Because you should be the person who knows better than anyone in the world why someone should want to date you so that if someone comes into your life and treats you less than that, you will be

the person who will be like, no, this is what I bring to the table. I know that. Like, that is an immovable, unchangeable fact. And ultimately, that's why I left so quickly is because I was like, no, I know what I deserve. Fuck you're good. So good. I want to write a list of, I don't know, I was all right. I'm sitting there for the rest of my life. I know. I was thinking like, how long until you're like, I've got to call this a day? Would you believe that my report cards in school was like, talks too much, has an answer for everything. Michelle, that was so good. And we didn't even talk about the, you're the book that you've just finished writing.

So please may you come back next year and talk to a spot friendship. Yes, absolutely. When your book comes out. Yeah. But you also have your own podcast, which is just launched. Called it in all honesty. Which we're going to leave the link for in the show notes as well as the link to your books and your Instagram.

I'm sure everyone follows you already. But oh my God, I just, I loved that. I can't really apply. much of the advice to my own relationship, but I want to. But I feel empowered anyway. Very much so. Well, you can date your husbands. Not the same.

Give me a while. I'm tired. Maybe. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks for having me on. Should I delete that is part of the ACAS creator network.