Should I Delete That? - The only person that was going to find my cancer was me... with The Titty Gritty

Episode Date: October 13, 2024

Six years ago, Helen Addis (aka The Titty Gritty) found a lump. Despite having no history of cancer in her family - it was an aggressive form of breast cancer. A week after her diagnosis - she had a masectomy, followed by 18 months of active treatment. Being well under the screening age, the only person who would have found Helen’s cancer - was Helen. During her treatment, Helen asked her friends and family if they checked their boobs - and when most of them said no - she made it her mission to spread awareness about checking your breasts. So, she launched the Change+Check campaign - it is a simple sticker which goes on shop and gym changing room mirrors reminding people to check themselves for signs of breast cancer. She also almost got the queen with a pair of boobs on a Royal Mail stamp…This Breast Cancer Awareness month - Helen is part of a campign to make a life-extending drug called ENHERTU available in England, Wales and Northen Ireland. Despite petitions, protests, campaigns and even government pressure the secondary breast cancer community is being met with constant rejection. They are now fundrasing to raise the legal fees to take legal proceedings to continue the fight for those who need this drug urgently and for the thousands upon thousands who will need it in months and years to come. You can read more about the campaign - and donate hereYou can stream and buy Love Is All Around with Marti Pellow and The Change+Check Choir here!Follow Helen on Instagram @thetittygrittyEmail us on [e-mail] us on Instagram:@shouldideletethat@em_clarkson@alexlight_ldnShould I Delete That? is produced by Faye Lawrence Music by Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

And in the word chemotherapy sits the word mother, it always just makes me think I can totally do this. I can be a mum. I can get through this. Hello and welcome back to Should I Delete That? I'm Alex Light. I'm in Clarkson and you are carrying the show on your shoulders today out. I have a shell of a woman. So without further ado, tell me something good. bad or awkward please oh you're not feeling great and i feel very sorry for you right now this is bad this is this is one i have i think i might even have two bad no goods this week that's very me i know i know that's not very you i know look at you disrupting the dynamic of the show i will hit you with a good oh thank you okay i went into a school yesterday a primary school to talk to the kids about body image

and body confidence and it was one of the best things I've ever done in this line of work honestly it was amazing I'm so proud of you well done that's so cool do you know what was amazing is like I've I've done I've spoken to school

to kids in schools before like I've done talks and stuff but they've all been secondary schools and they've been like 14 to 16 and they tend to be quite like quiet like not super engaged with the topic kind of like head down don't ask me questions yeah a bit terrified and also you can see that like the the problems are already there um but it honestly made me want to cry these kids were just like so they are not yet spoiled by diet culture and by like societal standards and ideals and they just

see their bodies as like these cool vessels that allow them to do stuff and they think it's so cool that they look different from the person next to them and the person over there they're like that's amazing that like you your hair is completely different to my it's just like it's all it's all really like novel and like fun to like wonderful to them and it was just really pure and it was so so nice to see well I'm proud of you I think that's really cool and it's just like it's such a lovely thing that we talk about this stuff all the time but it's such a lovely thing to be able to put it into an actionable you never see we don't really see where our work goes when we do stuff online because it just goes into the ether so it's quite cool to see it and like

like real terms. I love that. I'm proud of you. Thanks. It was really, it was really cool. I don't think I have anything remotely. Good. Good. I, okay, no, yeah, probably not. We are scraping the barrel. Yeah, I was like, I can't, I could probably plug something. But to be honest, in case you can't tell by the fact that I am so breathless, as was pointed out by that woman on Instagram, who I have subsequently had to block. I, I think she's like the only person I've ever blocked. I'd never block people. People can say the worst things to me. Like, I can call the police on you before I'll block you. But for some reason, that woman sending me a DM being like, I hate the way you breathe. I was like, you know what? You can get fucked.

You can call me ugly. You can call me gross. You can attack anything, but you attack the way that I respire. Alone. No. Well, particularly given as as it transpires, I've been having all these blood tests. And I got my, my, anyway, boring. My iron, my ferretin is super duper low.

And I need to go in for an infusion this weekend. An iron infusion this weekend. I've literally just left the hospital. Yeah, we're recording this so late for us. But I've literally decided to leave the hospital and I've got to go back in and have an iron infusion because my iron is on the floor. And physically, I am so unwell.

Like, it's the weirdest thing. Like, beyond the sickness, which, you know, we've talked about that enough. I am like, I can't breathe. I can't feel my arms Like I just can't feel my arms And I feel like I'm gonna collapse Every time I stand up Fuck for me, you've been through it

I just, we're so close We're so close So close So close Like every day more Christmas stuff pops up I know And you're so sweet That's my good actually

My good is that you keep sending me photos Every time I'll see anything like Christmasy In the shops Like any Christmas chocolate Anything she sends me a photo of it And genuinely, my heart was a little leap every time. Oh, good. Like, ah, of Mariah.

I'm like, it's coming. It's coming. It's coming. We need the 31st, we need, we need Halloween out the way because there's like a big focus on Halloween. Once that's over, Christmas lights will be on and hopefully that will, in. I'll be chocker block full of iron and I'm going to bearing to go. Christmas, Christmas, Christmas.

So, yeah, I'm not great, but I will be better. I think even by the time the show comes out, should be feeling better so that's good that that that's those are the those are the only barrel those are the tiny little barnacles I could find on the bottom of the barrel that's good that's that's absolutely we're scraping it but you got something success let's be awkward got any three for me just it's not so much an awkward but it just really made me make me laugh we were talking I was talking to my mom about her family friend and it's her birthday today and I was like oh shit I should send her something from all of us kids i was like i'll um you know and mom was like yeah

you probably should she's like do have you done it before have you sent her something before and i was like i don't know i can't remember and then she was like does she usually send tommy christmas presents and i was like well given that tommy was born on the 5th of january this year i don't know mom she's losing track of her grandkids which i feel like is an inevitability after having five of her own five of her own children you are asking for a butt ton of grandkids to lose track of with five kids do you know what actually yeah maybe she did

confuse him with my nephew that that makes more sense that does make more sense because she has had one of those for a while my mum's got something like there's like a sign-apps or something that's like not missing and I've got it too I've inherited it from her as we've seen from this podcast when I have these like mind-blank moments

and she does these things but it's just like you should get a Christmas presents and I was like Tommy hasn't had a Christmas mom that's exciting Tommy's getting a Christmas I know how cool and I've not got a bad this week just another little I don't I can't class this as like good bad or awkward but it just it made me laugh one of the kids in the class he asked me what are you grateful for about your body and I was like well I'm grateful to my tummy because it grew me it grew me my baby I've got a little boy and he was like, can I see your little boy? So I was like, can I see your little man?

So I showed him a picture of Tommy. And he was like, he looks like Jack Jack from the Incredibles. And I was like, it's really funny because I don't know, do you know who that is? I know exactly who that is, I know why you'll look like. Exactly like that little baby. Is he got, is his hair, was his hair spiking up? Because that's the little, that's a little trademark, Jack, that quiff. Yeah, well, he's bald.

So basically. Quiff and quiff, too close to each other. Oh. Oh, I'm so, my other bad is that I was supposed to be seeing you and Tommy tomorrow. We're supposed to be hanging out and now we can't. I'm really upset. Yeah, me too. Me too.

I'm very gutted. I've been trying to be stoic because you're the one that's cancelled. So I'm trying to be like, don't worry. But inside, I'm very sad. He's got a hand foot and mouth guys. And at first I was like, oh, that's fine because Arlo had it recently. So I was like, it's fine. She won't, but then...

Turns out, there's loads of it. There's fucking loads of it. Maybe it's like the hand foot and the mouth element. Like, there's loads of varieties. Which is the spice of life. but frustrating in this context. Very frustrating. My awkward is not my own

because I haven't left the house enough to be awkward, but I have borrowed one from Alex. Love that. Husband Alex, boy Alex. He went to the park yesterday. He was with Arlo yesterday. They went to the park.

He said, there was a family next to him who were French. Okay. And he said, I don't know what happened to me, but I just, I heard them speaking French. And when it was my turn to speak, like to call Arlo over, to summon Arlo,

because it's time to leave the park. He did it with a French accent. No, he didn't. Alon. And they turned round to him and went, ah, bonjour. And then started speaking to him in French. And he had to go,

do I speak English and then they walked away. I am so mortified for him. Alon. Why? Please, can we get a voice note of him doing that to insert into the. record into the episode i've actually got he sent me the story as a voice note which hang on i can play i don't know what came over me but a french family just arrived in the playground so i decided

to put on a french accent when i was calling lola's name and then they said something to me in french and so then i just smiled and i've just had to leave because i'm very embarrassed I don't know why I did it. I don't know why I did it. I don't know why I did it either. You know that's something that I would do too. Me and Alex are so similar in lots of ways, in other ways, not so much,

but I would do that. You are type A's. You are similar in lots of ways. Which is nice for me. It's not stressful at times. Yeah, you're surrounded by people that are quite stressful. Yeah, they're stressed you out. Excellent.

Love that for you. To be fair, I stress you guys out too. So I feel like it kind of worked. Imagine if me liked live together. It would be horrible. Do you think? It would be horrible. It would be horrible.

The thing is, it would look lovely. But at what cost, the atmosphere, the atmosphere would be very ugly. I think you'd be so ready to kill each other. I think the only thing we would talk about is like, oh, I did this today. Like, I organised this today. I would be like, yeah, tell me more. And it would be, yeah. Yeah, I don't think you'd get into many feet.

No, no, I don't think so. It's for the best, yeah. Anyway, well, you're all giving in things that I can't at the moment, which is quite useful. Conversation, you know, like, spark, like oxygen. You're much better breathers than me. You do sound a bit breastless. They don't want to trigger you, but. Yeah, DM me about it. Jesus. Blockers. I feel a bit stuffy watching you oh oh oh oh you stuff off you feel stuffy anyway um this has been that and vip today today's a big episode and an exciting day we had to do something it's october we had to do something for breast cancer awareness month and we could not think of anybody better to speak to than titi gritty herself and I want to give a little heads up before we get into the interview first of all

obviously we are discussing heavy things happy endings which is lovely but cancer and cancer treatment obviously can be triggering but also just to give a little footnote yeah a little footnote to say when we talk about Nikki in this episode we are talking about the wonderful Nikki Newman who died last year after having had breast cancer we also mentioned Chris, I think, who was the founder of Copperfield. Obviously, the cancer community is very, very close and we realised that we did not give surnames. So that's frustrating. Sorry. Yeah, it's just a bit of context for you there. Okay, guys, here is Helen. Enjoy. Hi. Hello. Thanks for having me. Thank you so much for coming in. How are you?

I am not too bad. Thank you. All the better for being here. We're really excited to talk to you and actually you were a guest recommended by our very good friend georgie swallow love georgie swallow she's great last time i saw georgie swallow i had my boobs out and she was painting them love love that yeah love that for you guys that's intense yeah we'll get to that bit so your instagram is called the ditty gritty can you explain that to us please so i was diagnosed with breast cancer when I was 39 so that was six years ago and one of the things that I did when I was going through chemo now bear in mind I don't have any family history of breast cancer so when I found my lump I thought oh it'll be a hormonal it's not going to be breast cancer

and it turns out that no it's full on full on hardcore very aggressive breast cancer and I did it during chemo I did a thing called come chemo with me where I would judge my my friends on how good their banter was, the snacks that they brought me, the entertainment value and all this sort of stuff. So much pressure for your friends. It was so much pressure for them. But do you know what? I really enjoyed it.

And one thing that I would ask at the end of our session is you do check yourself, don't you? And I would say nine out of ten of them would say, no, I'm too young. Or I don't know what I'm looking for. Or I'm too scared to find something. I don't have it in my family, so why would I need to check? You know, all this kind of stuff. So it just really made me realize that the only person that was going to find my cancer was me because I was way under the screening age.

Yeah. So if my friends and family, if they're not checking themselves, then, you know, my story could have been very different had I not found it early. So I just then went on a mission with the titity gritty to create a place where, it kind of normalises, checking your boobs. It's not about scare mongering. I obviously don't want people to find cancer, but what I am trying to encourage people to do

is just at least know you're normal so that if you do have a feel around, you know, one month and it feels different to what it did the month before that you know to get it checked out. It's hard, isn't it? Because I bet, and I bet you still speak to a lot of people who are still too scared to check. Yes.

Including me, I get my husband. to do it. Do you? Do you? That's not what I thought you were going to say. Yeah, I get my husband to do it. And why are you too scared? Because... I love that. Because I am scared... I'm a scared person anyway. I'm a very anxious person anyway. I don't... I'm just terrified. Anything like that kind of scares me a lot. And I had a breast reduction years and years ago and there's a lot of scar tissue. Right. So it feels lumpy anyway. So it feels lumpy anyway. Arguably, it's more of a reason that I should be doing it myself and should know exactly what's going on.

But because it's lumpy anyway, it kind of scares me. Because I, I, yeah, so. Kind of obsessing, you've got Dave doing it. Yeah, yeah, he does it, yeah. I mean, I'm sure he doesn't mind. No, no, he's like, go for it. It doesn't feel it's that time of day. Come on, Alex.

How often are you doing it? Do you do it on a routine? Did you call him into the shower? Like, how's like, every month? We'll go great. We're like, system after. Like, how does, tilt us through it? I just go in, whip my braw up and I'm like, can you just check my boots?

So you're supposed to do it on the last day of your period. Are you? Or, because the problem is leading up to your period, you're probably a bit more lumpy. Okay. So, yeah, that's when you're supposed to do it. It's supposed to be on the last day of your period every single month. Yeah. Okay.

Or like after your period, not leading up to your period. Okay, okay. And then just do it every month, whether it's you, your husband, your neighbour, whoever you can get to do it. I mean, there you go. Do you do it yourself? Yes. I do. But I've only started doing it as I've gotten older and I do it badly because I do that

thing. I'm like, well, I don't know what I'm looking for and I don't know how high to go because I've always got lumps in my armpits because of my immune system shocking. So I always know that my nodes. I'm like, oh, they're my nodes. I don't know. And then I ever think it. And then I try not to think about it too much. Yeah. So yeah, so it is. It's up to your armpit and it's up to your collarbone. Is it? I don't go that far. Yeah. You'll go right up to your collarbone. Yeah. And all around. And always behind. the nipple as well, that's often quite a missed area. I can never do it without, not like, touch myself.

I had a mastectomy the week after my diagnosis, and I was really shocked actually at how much they had to take because it's such a large area. Yeah, so right up to my collarbone to under here, but amazing reconstruction. But then the problem was, I ended up with this, like, brand new, shiny tit that they reconstructed. And then I had like a 39 year old one that had fed three kids and was looking a bit sorry for itself. Did you get that other one? Well, I had to fight tooth and nail to get the other one like hoiked up so it didn't look so. Yeah, that seems unfair. Yeah. If they're in there anyway. Well, I know. So it was seen as like plastic, it was seen as cosmetic. I was like, this is

a cosmetic. I didn't ask for that one to be locked off. Yeah. So at least like make me symmetrical. If like you need half your hair cutting off, it does make sense to do the other heart. Yeah. Make it and do. Don't just leave it. Exactly. Yeah. And that's traumatic enough anywhere. Of course. It's super traumatic losing your breast. Yeah. To then at least not match the reconstruction with the other one. That's I know. And also when you lose boob, you like, I likened it to, it sounds dramatic. but I likened it a bit to losing a limb. Like, I didn't have to learn to walk again,

but I felt like I had to learn to be a woman again in a funny, like, you know, as in being like a wife and a, and, and, you know, you just, because you look at yourself and you don't recognise yourself anymore, and you look butchered. So I did have, you know, I've got quite a lot of scarring now, but I recently had a big tattoo done under here. So now, when I get changed in the, morning I see my lightning bolt tattoo as opposed to seeing all the scars and all the

that's amazing yeah and was that a lightning bolt for nicky yeah because you've just won yeah you won an award so I'll let you say it no but yeah I won an award I literally have never round of applause I've never won a bloody award before yeah it was full yeah my contribution to breast cancer awareness and Alex her husband gave it to me and it was at the Savoy Hotel and I managed to get that there was 500 people in the audience and I managed to teach them all how to make tits out of a napkin and I was quite impressed with that. Is that what the award was for? No but I think I should win another award. Services to origami. Yeah I make a mean pair of boobs out of because they're very starchy the napkins

in there so you get a really good pert pair. crisp Yeah Good lift Good lift Going back to the Mistectomy I think it's such an interesting

conversation and actually one that I was having yesterday about the kind of I suppose like complicated and I didn't want to comment to it when I was talking about on Instagram

because it's not something I've experienced but there's the complicated relationship between sort of beauty ideals and sexuality and womanhood and breast cancer and it's a really interesting thing with the campaigning as well, how much, so much of it is pink and how much of it is kind of fun and how the reality of breast cancer sort of isn't that at all. And I wonder

how you live within that sort of juxtaposition. It's such a good point and it is such a tightrope. I feel that I'm walking every day with this. Everything that I try to do for the awareness, whether it's climbing the O2 because it looks like a massive boob and I even got a like an inflatable nipple to go in the middle of it and we had drones going over it. That's funny, right? Everyone thinks, oh yeah, that's brilliant. And we had a hot air boobloon go up

that said, you know, have you check your boobs on it and a massive pair of boobs on the side of it. And that makes people laugh. That gets people's attention. And yesterday I was whipping my bra off every hour. I get that. Is anything to get attention? I think the thing for me

that pisses me off the most is when companies in October come in, they pinkwash everything, don't actually donate to the cause and just sort of jump on the bandwagon and don't actually do anything. I can see what gets traction because I work in telly as well. So I know that it's all that, you know, shaking your boobs around and the reality is 31 women die every single day in this country, two secondary breast cancer. And any way to get the message across, for me, I will do what it takes. But I agree that there's somebody that posted something recently.

It might have been me that posted. Yeah. Yes. That was the Daily Mail headline. The Daily Mail headline? What is that about? So for listeners, the Daily Mail ran a story yesterday, which they say they didn't mean to. But they ran a headline yesterday that basically said like Millie McIntosh sets pulses racing as she poses for breast cancer awareness month.

And it's subsequently been changed. But when I read it, it was so jarring. It was like, wait what? Yeah. Like I couldn't believe. I sent it to you. I sometimes have to censor check myself. Am I being woke?

Am I being stupid? Or is this like genuinely horrific? Disgusting. But I think that's what's been really. a very interesting thing where boobs aren't and it's something I learned when I was breastfeeding that the sexualization of boobs is absolutely wild because they're not inherently they're not sexual glands they're not used for sex there's no you know like beyond the societal construct that we've built of like sexuality and femininity and all of that but like they're not inherently sexual

things so that pissed me off because it was just like if we're going to set why why must we sexualise this thing because like you say the more you see boobs the more we see these like the hot air balloons and the O2 and whatever the more normal it is the less embarrassed we are the more we'll check it it's great but if they're this big secret thing

that we have to hide away all the time and just reserve for the men I hate it do you know what I learnt the other day it really pissed me off I was doing my kids helping them with their school shirts and do you know why the boy's shirts are buttoned up differently to the women's. You notice that, boys and girls' shirts,

you know, the buttons are over the other side. No way. Did you know that? No, I didn't know that. Yeah. So your husband's shirt would, will button differently. The buttons are on this side, on his shirt, whereas they're on that side for you.

And the reason for that is because back in the day, women would button up their husband's shirts. No way. So it really drives me nuts that when I go into M&S to buy my kids' school shirts, they're still the other way around. It's like girls will dress themselves. Way. Yeah.

And girls will dress the boys. That's literally if I could explain the problem. Like if I could explain them red flag men in the world, I would literally like start there. Start that's the problem. Start there. Wow. I'm going to buy my son women girls.

Girls. Yes. Doing yourself. Making a point. Wow. That sounds like crackers. I know. I know.

What a fun bit of information. I know. Fun fact. Jesus. I don't know how to answer the sexualisation thing. I find it so it just burns me to the call. 100%. Yeah, it's so jarring.

And I think that the people who are sexualising breast cancer awareness, the reality, like you say, is mastectomy's, is a real shift in identity. It's struggling to feel sexy or feel like your old self. There's so much nuance and complication too. It's life-threatening. Yes. So to have it so undermined by this like, oh, it's sexy.

It's like, oh, get fucked. Yeah, I totally, I totally agree with that. And I actually went last week to see a friend of mine, Heather, in a hospice, because she, yeah, her breast cancer came back and it came back really strong and she passed away on Saturday. And the last, when I was there with her last week, she said to me just keep shaking your

tits around like keep getting the message out there and yeah I'm not in a sexual way no it isn't though I hate that it's made I know I know I know and the breast cancer awareness

is huge and it is saving because of you said yourself for your check and campaign yeah that's right so I launched this on the Lorraine show on ITV and it's called change in check and it's a reminder sticker

that goes on shop changing room mirrors because I was looking in a mirror when I found my lump. So they go on the changing room mirrors and they're all up and down the country in different retail shops and gyms and stuff. And yeah, so I've had 100 women contact me now. There's probably more because not everyone

can be asked to contact, you know, because they go through treatment or something. But there's 100 women that have messaged me and one man to say that they found it through seeing the campaign which is amazing and the majority are all under the screening age so yeah again the only person that was going to find it was them so that's a great deal of people that is yeah 101 people are so many people you couldn't fit them in this room you couldn't fit them in this room yeah probably had a squid it would be uncomfortable be a try why are we all in here

are they on the back of toilets toilet doors as well because I've seen them yeah I've seen them yeah I think I saw one at a service yes we did service station station as well yeah and during COVID I was stressed because people weren't going into shops and try and clothes on so I got brands to put it in like the online orders and then I had a brainwave and I thought what about contacting the Royal Mail because you know they sometimes do like bespoke Christmas stamps so I said oh what about having the Queen's head on the stamp but could we put a pair of boobs on her? And the lady was like, it'll have to go via the royal household dear,

and I don't think it'll be approved. So I said, what about a postmark? Anyway, after a lot of two in and fro it, and she agreed. So they, every single letter or parcel that was posted throughout the month of October for two years running during COVID, they postmarks it with check your boobs. That's so cool. Well done. I'm sorry you didn't get boobs on the Queen though.

I know. I was really sad about that. Genius. That would be brilliant. I reckon Charles wouldn't like. Spoil sports. I think he could knock a pair. I think he could totally rock a pair of tics. But anyway, so no, I was really chuffed about that. That's so cool.

Yeah. And there will be so many more than that amount of people who have contacted you. Yeah, I think. Yeah. 100% there will be so many more than that. Yeah, the ripple effect will be huge. So I've made a choir out of these women. I don't know if the guy's going to join us yet.

I need to ask it. I feel like he needs to on, like for the good of the choir. Yeah. I think you need the depth. But also just for the good of the, like the fact that men get breast cancer, no one really talks about it. So it's one woman every 10 minutes gets diagnosed in this country. And one man every day. God, that's so much more than what you think.

It's more than you think, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. And they have full on mastectomies. They have the whole, you know, the chemo, the hormone treatment. So, yeah, it's a rough road for them as well. well he's an hgv driver this guy i can't wait to meet him oh my god he sounds like a good addition to acquire i think he'll be a good addition yeah proper baritone so it was six years

ago that you discovered your lump and then went through treatment and you had a mastectomy yeah and you went through chemo yeah i so i had a mastectomy i had 16 rounds of chemo oh 15 rounds of radio And then 18 rounds of like a targeted hormone therapy drug. So it was 18 months of what they call active treatment. So it was, yeah, it was a tough ride. And my kids were 5, 7 and 9 at the time. So it was, it was really, yeah, it was really hard. That's huge.

I remember coming back from the hospital after my getting the diagnosis. And my neighbour had come around to look after them whilst me and my husband went to get the results. and we stood outside our front door and I could hear them behind the door moaning about this because I'd made like a homemade chicken curry for them to have and they were like,

I want a chicken curry. I said to my husband, if I tell them I've got cancer, do you think they'll start like behaving? It didn't, yeah. But you know what? They kept me grounded because there was no pity party at my house at all.

It was. Right. No, you're not staying in bed. need to take me to school. No, I don't want Dad to take me. You have to take me. You know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And did you tell them. Did you, was there, were they a part of there? I did. So, because at that age, their levels of understanding so different. So I said to them, you know, sometimes when you go for your swimming lessons, you get, get Vrucas, don't judge me. For some reason, my kids get Vruca's from swimming.

We've talked about Vrucas so much this week. Oh, they're vile. They're disgusting. They're disgusting. For I just keep coming up. I wish they would come up less. And I said, well, I've got something a bit like that, but it's on my boom. Do you want to have a feel?

So they all had a feel. And I said, and it's, I need to have that special treatment and it's going to, you know, take it away. My youngest, who was five, she was like, eh, after she felt it, she was like, can I go and watch Paw Patrol? It's like, yeah, you can watch Port Patrol. But then my eldest, who was nine, said, is it cancer? And I had no, we don't have any cancer in our family. Wow. So I was like, well, what do you know about cancer?

And he's like, I know that people die from it. From watching telly, like, adverts on telly. So it was really interesting, like how sort of their level of understanding of it. And so my middle one, my seven-year-old, April, she, so if I just backtracked, my husband took quite a bit of time off work in those early days. And incidentally, you started getting, like, loads of housework done. like there was like walls being painted and pictures going up on the wall and I thought actually there's a there's a silver lining to this diagnosis um anyway my daughter came running into me

and she had this my husband's being cue book which says the complete guide to DIY and she read it is the complete guide to die oh and that's what she thought he was reading about oh so she says you're going to die you're going to die archie's right her brother you're Oh, she's right. You're going to die. I was like, no, no. It's a complete guide to DIY. Like, look inside. Look, it's a ban up a ladder. And then she was like, why is it not a woman up a ladder? I was like, exactly.

That's what you knew to be focusing on. So there was a lot of death talk in the house. Oh, God. But what we found is that the more we shared our, you know, I would always say to them, like, I'm going to the hospital today. I'm going to be back at this time. I never kept anything from them because as soon as I was taking calls in other rooms

they would start to panic so yeah it was a it was a join me I bet you're allowed to say that yeah we do all the time I hate ourselves for it I hate it I hate it sometimes it's the only

it's the shoe that fits and then my son he we don't like to let the the house computer go upstairs but it was upstairs in his room and I looked at the history or my husband looked at the history on it

and he googled what will happen the week before my mum dies of breast cancer he was nine he was nine yeah it was to broke your heart yeah to read that

yeah but then two weeks later we went to Thorpe Park and we were in a queue and he said if you tell the woman up there that you've got cancer do you think we could skip the queue this guy sounds I'm all over the

I like him. I like a style. I like the anxious Googling. I like the... Yeah, I know. I know. I like the optimistic key jumping. But isn't that like, that's kids for you though, isn't it?

They absolutely 100% got me through it. They got me through all that treatment. And in the word, chemotherapy sits the word mother. When you look at the word, it says mother in the middle of chemotherapy. And it always just makes me. think I can totally do this, I can be a mum, I can get through this, and we'll get through it together as, you know, as a team. And you know what? We're all the stronger for it. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. That must have been tough. And you managed to, I mean, I don't know the

correct like terminology to you is it's not like beat the cancer, is it? Yeah. So for me, they don't ever say that I'm in remission just because the type that I had is quite aggressive. Okay. And, and, chance of recurrence is quite high. However, they say that I'm NED, no evidence of disease. Okay. So they check me regularly. Yeah. And you know what? I touch word, I think I'm one of the lucky ones that I'm, yeah. Are you still on any drugs? Yes. So I was pushed into an early menopause. I'm on a drug called Tamoxifed, which it's amazing that these drugs exist. It is amazing. So what that does is it just stops any hormones in my body from attaching to any rogue cancer cells that might be kicking around.

So, yeah, so I'm on that daily. I'm wondering, like, after that 18 months of, like, that intensity, like all of that treatment, all of the mental capacity that that must take up, I imagine you're completely immersed in the world of cancer. I'm so immersed in it. But you are still. And I'm thinking like, God, was there a point where you were like, I actually just want to take a step back and I don't want to be immersed in the world of cancer. I just want to.

I mean, I suppose once you've had cancer like that, it never really leaves you. I think for me, I was diagnosed at the same time as Nikki. And her story was so different. We live very close to each other. So our treatment path, our hospital, everything was the same. Right. But hers just went a different. to me and I think that that's what kind of drives me on and I think that I had to have been

given that diagnosis for a reason and I definitely have days where I'm like I can't do cancer today but it's also what gets me out of bed every day because I just feel so lucky that I'm able to be here now sat with you guys you know talking about this because I just I know only too well that it could have gone a very different way. So once I went to my GP, when they referred me to see the breast consultant, in those three weeks, another four lumps grew. And that's why, again, why I thought it was hormonal. I thought it can't be breast cancer because cancer, cancer doesn't do that.

And it was shifting quick, you know. So I was so lucky. So that's why I'm almost, I would say, probably obsessed with it. It's probably not healthy. Like if I saw a therapist, they'd probably say. say that I'm doing it to compensate. I don't know. Well, you're doing, you're running a campaign now, right? To raise funding for a drug called. And her too. Yeah. I've never heard anyone say it before you said it. I know. I read it down so many times and I was like, no, I'm going to

have to say it at so. Right. Yeah. It's in her too. Yeah. Yeah. So it is a drug which is available in 18 European countries, including Scotland. Right. And what this drug does, and it's done all the clinical trials, it's got a standing ovation at the world oncology conference by all the leading oncologists saying this is a game-changing, like, miracle drug. Right. Now, it doesn't cure cancer. It doesn't cure secondary breast cancer, but what it does is it prolongs your life as a secondary breast cancer patient. So rightly so, 18 European countries have it. America has it. Australia has it. But for some reason, in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, we don't have it. So we have done a petition. We've had 350,000 signatures on it. That's made no difference. We have gone topless outside Parliament, well, body painted topless, outside Parliament, met with silence. I've been to roundtable discussions in Parliament.

with Nice, NHS England and the two drug companies that manufacture the drug, again, met with silence. And in that my campaign group, we have a group of women there that need it and they need it fast. And we already lost one of them on Saturday. And it just doesn't add, it just doesn't add up. Is there a reason being given, is it cost? So they put it nice, the National Institute of Clinical Excellence, put it down to cost, but in layman's terms, they have a new system in place, which grades the severity of diseases.

And in this system where they grade these diseases, they then allot a portion of money. How do I explain this? It's so complicated. They have a grading system to work out how much money they give to which diseases. Now, we used to have the same system that Scotland uses. And in their system, secondary breast cancer was deemed as a severe disease, therefore gets the full whack of funding. That's why in her two's got through up there.

They've changed our grading system in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. And what they've done is they've now put secondary breast cancer as a moderate disease. We're no longer a severe disease. So what that means is they have ring-fenced a smaller amount of money for that disease. What else would they deem constitutes by their system severe or moderate? Well, that's the million dollar question and that's what they won't disclose. So there are other terminal diseases that are still class as severe. Right.

But why not secondary breast cancer? That's really weird. is it's like it's a typo. Yeah. Yeah. But nobody's listening. Yeah. The only option now is to take it to court, to do a judicial review.

But we're a group of 30 women. Some of them are, well, the majority of them are in daily treatment or weekly treatment to keep them alive at the moment. They will need in her too soon. Their time is running out. Oh, gosh. So this is why we are trying to raise 150,000 so we can pay the legal costs to get nice to come to court. For people who don't know, can you explain what secondary breast cancer is? Yes.

So secondary breast cancer is breast cancer that has moved to another organ in the body. So primary breast cancer, which is what I had, was in my boobs. that's treatable that is curable however when you have cancer cells in your boobs if you don't catch it soon enough those cells will travel via your bloodstream or your lymphatic system to another organ so it will hit your lungs your bones your liver and your brain that's where breast cancer can travel to so as soon as it gets to one of those other organs organs, it is not curable. You can live with it. You can live very well with it. Like Chris Hellinger, who founded Copperfield charity, she lived for 11 years with secondary breast

cancer, which is phenomenal. The average is about two to three years that you live with secondary breast cancer. You only die from secondary breast cancer. You don't die from primary breast cancer. According to the NICE system, is primary breast cancer classified as moderate? Or you don't know? Or is it? Don't know. that seems really weird it just does it does not add up especially if 18 other countries our neighbouring countries here Romania took it on four weeks ago we England Wales and Northern Ireland we are so far behind with our cancer care but like Scotland has it it's right there I know in terms of getting it privately yeah so yes if you are lucky enough

to be able to afford private medical care you can get it it on on that this is where it's so fucked isn't it yeah totally and if so my friend heather who passed on Saturday we looked to potentially crowdfunding it for her for her alone it would have cost 170,000 pounds yeah it's just insane it's totally insane so this is why we need nice to reconsider. I feel like they shouldn't be called nice. No, I know. I know. It doesn't feel very nice at all. It's such a complicated conversation, I suppose, to have them particularly for like, for Alex and I who are learning about this, you know, who we don't know a lot about it. So I want to be really careful what I say because everybody that's working with a vast majority of people that are working

within the NHS are incredible and breaking themselves in half. And we are like the luckiest people in the whole world that we have, the NHS. But it is. really really painful for people to have to watch it fail them and and to hear that you know that it is an option privately and that it is an option in Romania and Scotland and I know and the other thing I always say is why are we giving all this money to cancer research if we then discover these and create these game-changing drugs right but then you're not allowed it. It doesn't make, it just doesn't make sense. To play God like that, it's really odd, isn't it? And I asked nice, eyeball to eyeball, I said, is it because we're going to die anyway

with secondary breast cancer? Yeah. Because that's how it, that's how it feels. Why are we not being valued as much in this country? That's why I wanted to ask. Do you think that's the reason? Is that, well, it's not curable anyway, so. Yeah. I'm. Yeah. I I don't know whether the misconception is that when you have secondary breast cancer that you don't lead a very sort of fruitful life or whatever. But the women in this campaigning group that I'm working with, you know, a lot of them still work and they have secondary incurable breast cancer. They can live very well.

Human beings. They're human beings. And also, I feel like of all the people to not have a misconception, it should be the scientists and the people who work at my like this is not the place of misconceptions no i know and you know what when we're in that round table with n hs england and with asher zeneca and duchy sancho the the drug car companies all men and i just think if that was your wife your daughter your mother sister we wouldn't be in it we would not be in this room right now no no i mean and chris and nicky have proved not you know yeah how they lived with second to cancer and the

good that they did and the good that they did living with secondary cancer is just like I mean they're a complete force they're a complete force of nature those two and I guess that's the frustrating thing is that it feels like I don't know does it feel like a clerical decision like an admin decision rather than a human decision with emotion and yeah yeah it's like somebody sat there with a spreadsheet and they've really just not thought this through we were talking before this and like I just we're just going to throw it out there like if anyone is listening who is associated with the brand who has budget to spend on something like this like I think a brand would be like partnering with a brand would be a great way forward you know so if anyone is listening who does

have that power yeah and also you know you're so you're you're 35000 pounds is that right 35 at the moment of 150,000 pound target you know we're going to put the link in the show notes thank you we're not wrapping up I just want to like we're also not expecting you guys to to carry the I can feel really daunting when you've got a massive target that people think well there's no point

but it's actually not that big and if everyone listening to this it's not that big it's not that big donate a pound a pound two pound I know

five pound it would be incredible we'd get there yeah you would get there so that's funding the legal fees so that you can take this

but it's God it must be tiring for you as well because you have to make so much noise so much noise about this yeah

it is exhaust And I bet it is. And I find, I think this is really interesting. And actually it's something someone said to me yesterday, a man, unsurprisingly. And he's like, oh, because I, in the post I made about the sexualisation, that's stupid daily male headline, the, I said women's health is consistently underfunded. And he was like, well, actually breast cancer is one of the most funded in the UK. And it's like this, I can't believe we're having to have this as an argument. Yeah.

No, I know. Where it's like, we're doing this. That's brought up a lot. Well, that's what I was going to ask. Because we do have this sort of like scarcity complex in this world, why is your breast cancer more important? They're not prostate cancer. And why is your, and I really hate, I don't know what the answer is.

I hate it. But I wonder how you feel about that when that comes up. Well, how I feel about it is women are still dying every day from this disease. And it is the most diagnosed cancer in women in the UK. So yes, we still should be pumping. Until we've got a cure, why would we not? isn't like a game of top trumps. Like, it is, it's kind of,

it kind of feels like that's what's being bred, though, with this, with how much charities are having to do because of how much the NHS can't do because we don't have the funding and we don't have, because the government is not prioritised, I'm not blaming anyone within the NHS, this has been consistent underfunding by woeful government. So it's not, there's no fault beyond the government.

But with charities having to do so much, it does breed this like scarcity, complex where people get quite territorial over their cancers. They absolutely do. Which is horrible. I'm almost scared to say it, but I come under far a lot from people with other cancers saying, why are you not doing lung cancer? Why are you not doing this cancer?

Why are you not doing? And I get it. People are frustrated, you know, but we're stronger together. And I think that if we can all. all support each other and not bring each other down. I don't understand this whole. It really gets my go at this whole that breast cancer gets enough. If it got enough, it would be cured.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I wish people could see if you take a step back that it's like, it's not you that they're angry with and it's not. No, I know. And that's it. But you don't see it like that. And obviously it's such an emotive thing and it's such a person. personal thing and people are being failed, you know, the fact that charities are having to do so much is because, you know, it's not normal. I think it's become very normal. I think it's become very normal. It isn't normal that we've had to fundraise. It's the same with loads of areas of the country. Like military charities. It's another example of the public raising money that they sort of already paid in their taxes. And it's, I think that people are angry. Yeah. I think people are. I think people absolutely are. I totally get it.

But it's not fair for you because you're in the public. No, but I would love to help everybody with all their, you know, any cancer story. But you're one person. But you had breast cancer, so that's the lens through which you look at like all the, you know, get cancer now. Yeah. Yeah, I can talk boobs.

If there's one thing I know what to talk about, it's, it's boobs. Okay, well, while we're talking boobs, let's get like back to checking. I don't care where you are except I do because I don't want you to be arrested. But if you're listening to this in a safe place, Can you, could you talk us through a boob check please that people can do while they're listening? I can. Thank you. And I can give it from personal experience.

I can't pretend to be a doctor. But what I would do is always do it. So the last day of your period and do it once a month. And what I would do is stand in front of the mirror, obviously naked or at least your boobs out, hands above your head. And just look at your nipples and see if they pull at all. like if there's any dimpling, any redness, any discharge from your nipple, any lumps. So for the lumps, use the pads of your first three fingers and you sort of pad all around from your collarbone right down to under your boob, make sure you're checking behind your nipple

and definitely into your armpits as well. Just do it once a month and just so that you know what you normally feel like if one month you should happen to see a symptom um go and see your GP I have to say it's something like 78% of people that present themselves with one of those symptoms it turns out to be nothing like it's great statistically your symptom is going to be nothing um but just check it out you've just got to check it out people get scared of time wasting don't they they do but you must be scared no you cannot be scared of time wasting and no proper medical professional is going to see you as a time wasteer if you are coming in genuinely concerned about, you know, a symptom no matter how big or small.

For the people who are really scared of checking, like I'm lucky that I'm able to ask my husband to do it, but if someone doesn't have that option and they are just really, really anxious and scared to do it themselves, is there any service, is there anywhere that they can go? So I would definitely contact your local surgery to see. whether one of the nurses there could do a check. The other thing you could do is contact breast cancer now or Future Dreams charity. They often run workshops where you can drop in

and have a little... A little feel, a little check. Okay, yeah. That's really helpful. Or there are lots of videos on their websites as well, whether you're male or female that will show you how to check. Yeah. Because also some people have big boobs

and they think, oh, you know, it's like needle in a haystack, I'll never find anything. So there are techniques for that, like lined down on your bed and doing it when you're laid down. That's what I feel. And I don't know where to start. I feel like that with mine. I'm saying, well, it's anything in there. I'm not going to feed it. There's loads.

And also when people are breastfeeding. Yes. Breastfeeding was a, but I actually had a friend of mine who found her breast cancer when she was, just after she had her second baby when her baby was brand new. and it was her diagnosis that made me much more aware of breast cancer kind of in pregnant in I don't know I don't know why I thought I before I wasn't maybe because I was young and although we do have a lot of cancer in our family thankfully it's not breast but it I just was like oh it's not really you know it's not really for me

and then she got it and I was like fucking hell it's like you know and then it was the idea of it happening when I had my baby. It was like, terrified. Anyway, so she, and sometimes that's what it takes, isn't it? For someone in your life to...

And actually, that's quite hard when you're breastfeeding because your boobs is so lumpy. And all the glands are there. Yeah. Yeah, I'm not great. I still don't know what I'm looking for.

But I just think, I did find my breastfeeding for anyone listening, if you are breastfeeding, the thing that I found quite helpful was that because it's a milk ducts that fill up, they're not always going to be the same every day.

So if you can just make a note or make a mental, you know, so if you see the same one in the, in the same place for a few days. You've either got a block duck or... Ah, right, okay.

Maybe something else, because... I'm not looking forward to this again. We've been talking about this recently. I have misstatus is so... I had misditis. Did you? I put a cabbage in my bra. I did too.

I went to the doctor and she was like, why is there a cabbage in your brow? I was like, I don't know. She was like, you can have antibiotics, put the cabbage in the baby. I put cabbage in mine as well. It's mad, isn't it? Yeah. Oh, being a woman.

Being a woman. It's hard work. It is. But this has been amazing. Thank you so much. Thank you. And you've got a really full one month ahead. Yeah, I have.

But I hope that anyone listening who's got the capacity, whether it be a financial donation or even a bit of moral support, can help you through the next few weeks. And today we are launching our change in check choir charity single. All proceeds go to secondary breast cancer research. So if you want to download it, it's with Marty Pell. hello, love is all around. We're re-releasing that. So if you download that, you'll be donating. So great. You'll find it on or wherever you download your music from. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Should I delete that is part of the ACAS creator network.