Should I Delete That? - The Right to Lose Weight with Billie Bhatia

Episode Date: July 7, 2024

This week on the podcast, Em and Alex are joined by journalist Billie Bhatia! Back in February, the Sunday Times published an article written by Billie all about her desire to lose weight and the difficulties she has faced in the process. The girls wanted to talk to Billie and confront their own conflicting feelings and values as they are immersed in an online culture where self acceptance is key. The fear around publishing this episode is that it could trigger listeners, and despite it being purposefully confronting, if you feel the need to skip this episode, do what you need to do! This conversation dives deep into the thin ideal, the fear we have around calories, what it means to be happy and why, exactly, does Billie have the right to lose weight?Follow Billie on Instagram @billie_bhatiaListen to Billie and Sasha Pallari's podcast, Spill, here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/spill/id1745067669Follow us on Instagram @shouldideletethatEmail us at [e-mail] by Daisy GrantMusic by Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

You're not supposed to say this anymore. You're not supposed to say I'm not content in the like body that I'm in. I'm supposed to be in this era of like just loving yourself and I'm not, that isn't how I feel about my body. Hello and welcome back to Shoulda Delete That? I'm Alex Light and I'm M Clarkson. How you doing Al? There's no time to piss around and tell you how I am. I need to go into my awkward.

Right, let's go. Like, immediately. Raw dog it. I'm ready. I need to share because I am, I am mortoed. You're not going to believe this, okay? What do you do? I love it when it starts like this.

This is actually a fantastic follow-on to a conversation we had a couple weeks ago. I can't remember when, but is it just me? I actually think it was last week. Anyway, so since, Obviously, I didn't have my period for eight years since having, since giving birth, it's come back with an absolute vengeance. Like, I've never known anything like it. Like, my periods used to be, when I did have them, they were so light.

I could, like, if I forgot to put a tampon in or put pad on, like, it wouldn't be a disaster, right? It was that light. That's the biggest pick-me period comment, I could have imagined. I know, I know, but it's relevant. It's relevant. It's relevant information. Since I gave birth, they have, I've not, I don't know how to handle it. so heavy. I don't know how to handle it. I don't know, like I'm just buying nighttime pads. I'm

not even doing tampons because I don't, it's too much. It's too much. It won't handle it. So I'm going for pads, nighttime pads, but it's still, it's really crazy. And prefacing all of this with possibly I might need to go to the doctors, but anyway. Yeah, at the end of this conversation, I'm going to tell you as a friend that I think you want to go to the doctor, but I'm not going let that get in the way of what's coming next. Don't get, don't let I get in the way. So we're going out for dinner. We're going out for dinner last night, right? Should have stayed in, but, we if we stayed in we'd just be in the dark in a hotel room while

Tommy was we weren't going to stay out it was like I can't do it sorry I can't just sit in in the dark in the hotel room like let's just go out what will be will be we will handle him he was a fucking nightmare we had to take it in turns to go like hop in outside the restaurant with him and like walk him round are you colouring in

yes yes I'm colouring okay would you rather eye contact for this story would you rather would you rather look you in the eyeballs I'll leave your beat I'll leave you me I'm ready now

No I'm ready now No I'm ready now I'm gonna look in both your eyes As you tell me what happened next So we're taking it in turns To wander around Taking it in turns to eat Like Dave's texting me like finish

They're like I come back And then I eat while he takes him out Anyway we sat down for the last little bit Because he was like for 10 minutes We had him like funky veg on He was good And I was like god This just feels like it's really coming out

The period Like this feels really crazy Like really really crazy So I was like, Dave, I think we need to go home So we stood up I went to pay the bill Like you have to go to the till to pay the bill And as I'm waiting for the man to get the card machine

I heard someone, a man from the other side Go excuse me, excuse him what? And I was like, fuck, he's talking to me, isn't it? I turned around This man is saying to me by beckoning me over No, no, no, no, no why am I having to look at you for this? No, okay A middle age, like probably about my dad's age

beckoning me over and I was like oh my god like what else could they need me for other than what I'm about to say so I went over he's with his wife and his daughter I went over and the whole time he's doing this I like the come over sign with the hand you know you gesture I walk over and he I maintain the eye contact with him because I'm like what the fuck what do you want what do you want and then he as I approached the table he points to his daughter and his daughter looked at me and went, do you speak French? Do you speak French? Obviously, I said yes, because I don't know if you know guys, but I speak French. Because you do?

A rich by French. She said to me, you've got blood on your skirt. Oh, no. In French. What is that in French out of curiosity? Vise a bit of Saint. Saint-Saint-Sert-Dog, something like that. Anyway, I don't know.

I can't remember. It doesn't sound so gruesome in French. I blud it out. I bled it out. I died. I absolutely died. And I was like just looking at them, like, looking at these three pieces. people, this mother, father and daughter looking at them like, what do you want me to say?

What do you want me to say? Like, I know you're trying to be nice, but this is not nice. No, they should have said the daughter over. They didn't need to do a family intervention. It's not even your family. All of them looking at them. The man looked like he wanted to cry for me. The woman was just like head down. Look at it. It was horrible. Absolutely horrible. So I just said, okay, thank you. Oh, ow. Also, what were you wearing? Because you always wear black. This was the one time you didn't wear anything black. It was black and white striped. So I was like, how bad could it be? I got outside. Dave was already outside. Tommy, I got a sign. I was like, Dave, we need to leave. Like run. Get me out of this place. And then I was like, look at my skirt

from the back. Is it bad? And he was like, oh, fuck, it's really bad. It was so, it was all over. My skirt, so bad. Oh my God. How? How? Okay. Are you okay? Not sure. I think therapy and doctor. I don't know in what order. How bad's that? So, coming back to the conversation. that we had a few weeks ago, like, should you tell someone? Whether or not you should tell someone. Honestly, as someone that happened to, just last night, I say no. I say, don't do it, because I wanted to die. Like, I probably could have guessed that it was on there anyway.

Sorry, there were also other ways of telling you. Like, it didn't need to be a three-pronged attack from a French family at dinner. Like, it could have been a quiet word in your ear. That's a really brutal thing they've done. I'm sorry. It was awful. they were trying to be kind, but that's a lot. I'm really sorry for you. I also do really encourage you to go and see a doctor now. I definitely will. I definitely will. I think that

was a sign. I've had a period for like three weeks now and I've been putting it off and then I was like, do you know what? I mean, it's kind of amazing that you just didn't have them at all and now you've got loads. I thought I had no blood left. Yeah. In the vaginal area, like the the, I just thought it was bloodless and that's why. But no, no, there is blood. Sorry, it's so sorry for anyone who doesn't like blood. Which would be most people. Yeah. Like, I can't imagine this.

Like a massive amount of people who love blood. You're all very welcome. There you go. Oh, I'm very sorry for you. I know. Yeah, that's horrific. Yeah, horrific. Horrific.

It's that awkward or bad or both? It's both. It's definitely both. Do you have anything to match me? Oh my God, no, thankfully. I think you've taken, like, all awkwardness available to should I delete that host? I wondered why I'd had quite an easy week It's because it'd all been

All been shoveled your way Well, do you know what? I had two awkwards for you today But they've been replaced by last night And they're coming back for next week Okay, I had a tiny little one I had my best friend's hen last weekend And I was, we went down

And it was, you remember it was a crazy heat wave Like Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday last week So when I was packing my bag I was like crazy heat wave And then when Friday came the heat wave had gone but that had that was not what I had packed for I'm not kidding like me and like the two guys I went down with we didn't pack anything other than skirts and shorts like we packed no trousers no long sleeves no jumpers no jackets nothing and then on the way down we had to go via M&S to go and do the big shop you know the hen shop and we walked in I was genuinely I was so fun I was freezing like I was in pain I was so cold it was in the child aisle like and I looked up from my chilled produce and I said I swear to God I could cut glass with these nipples and I caught eye contact with this man who must have been 70 years old

and he just looked at me like why have you told me that I was like I'm sorry that wasn't for you oh no I know I know oh I hate that there when you're so called it's painful. Oh, I was in agony. Like, it was genuinely freezing gold. So from the weekend, I don't think I'm, I don't think I'm allowing myself bad. So many goods in my life right now, I believe. I don't think it's any bad. I hate when you do this. But genuinely, sorry, highlight of my entire life was I think, and I need, I need a good 20 year back story first, okay? For my whole life, I have loved Laser Quest. Like, I find it incredible. fun. Me and Ellie have been going for years, right? And like every summer, like we would spend

our summers in the Isle of Man together and we would go two or three times a week. Like we love LaserQuest, right? And we were really good. Now, Grace is her sister and she's 12 years younger. When Grace was little, and I mean little, I mean like three or four years old, we would take her into Laser Quest, put her in the middle of the room and just shoot her mercilessly. All my points came from this tiny little child. It was Ruth's. Anyway, she sought her revenge as an adult as she should. She is now, and I do credit myself and my horrible teaching techniques is baptism of fire.

She's now the best Laser Quest player I've ever seen. She is immaculate. And I'm like, you were born for this. It was always going to happen. That's your villain origin story. She was prime. I'm her Batman. She is the Joker.

You know what I mean? Anyway. Yeah. So we have, we, like, Laser Quest, run in our blood. We went to Aday's Quest as part of the hendie, which was like where else would we go? There was literally no other activity.

Although Ellie does love an activity, but this was like top of the pile for the activities. We ended up in there. It was us, the hen group, and two stag groups. Well, no, it was one big stag group, but I mean, there must have been 30 of them. So they divided this stag group into two teams. There were three teams.

The hen on one and this stag party and two others. We were blue. They were red and yellow. Alex, to say we annihilated them would be the biggest understatement in human history like we played two back-to-back games the first one we won so significantly that if you added up both of their team's points

our team still won like it was sensational there's such an argument for like women why women should rule the world and it's literally this like we communicated we worked as a team like we took the high ground both literally and figuratively. And we worked so well together.

So at one point, I heard, as I was like shooting them all in the face, I heard one man say to another, these girls must be in a league or something. I literally died with pride. I was like, oh my God, I've made it. That's like tombstone worthy. and Clarkson must have been in a league or something. Literally that.

And as we were going out, to be honest, and it could have been quite, if they'd have been the wrong kind of guys, I don't think it would have been great. Like, if they'd have been, like, if first of all, if they'd been sore losers, it would not have been fun at all because I think it would have just been awkward.

And if they'd been misogynistic-y and like, real laddie, you know, stagg, I think it really actually could have been quite a bad environment, but they took it so well. Love that. And they were really, really cool it was nice and you know we just we just got on and played the game you know what i mean there's

no time for like banter or flirting like we were just you know we were just laser questing and um and as we were leaving i could hear them talking to each other and one of the guys was like yeah um i swear those girls have got sas training like they're ridiculous yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yes yes do you know what there are times in the four years i've known you that i've been proud of you but this tops all of them that is just incredible i genuinely like i haven't been proud of it like As we walked out, we're trying, oh my God, guys, like, look at us. I feel like we've just, like, storm the beaches. Do you know what I mean?

Like, this is genuinely, this is stuff of legend. A league. I would love to be in a laser quest league. Imagine, that would be so fun. I genuinely, I'm going to look into it. What a hobby? Anyone says, like, what's your hobby? Like, what a thing to say?

Laser questing. Currently, my hobby, as you pointed out earlier, is colouring. I'm getting really, would you like to see some of my colouring? I'd like to do it. I love colouring. Oh, good. Okay. So I'm going to shout out a small business because I saw this girl online called Calm Over Chaos.

And I saw one of her reels that had gone like super duper viral and it was so satisfying when she was coloring. And then I was like, and then she was like, you can buy these tools. And I was like, what? I can do what you're doing? So I did. Like, how good is that? I'm getting really good at calling. My first ones arguably aren't very good.

But I've been following her tutorials and I've been like practicing my blending and everything. Oh, you have. It's proper blended. It's so good. Her pens are so satisfying. Well done. Well done. Amazing. I love it all for you. I love it all for you. I'm glad you've had such a good week. Good for you.

No, do you have anything good before we do our guest today. Oh, okay. Well, yeah. No, I do. I'm in France. We're in France and it's our first, like, holidays of three of us. We're in the north of France. Weather is not great. And I did a U for Brighton. Like, I completely, I've packed. I mean, I know that we joke that I'm bad with the weather forecasting stuff, but like it's really fucked me over this week because I forgot that weather changes and obviously it was so nice last week. So I've packed full summer wardrobe for him, for Tommy, for me. I don't think that's the weather forecast fucking you over. I think that's you not reading the weather. That

sounds to me like you didn't check it. It's a me problem. A hundred percent. It's a me problem. Yeah, well, I forgot weather changes. I was like, oh, it's just like this forever now. Packed a full summer wardrobe and it's the weather here is the same as in the UK. It's really cold. And I don't have a jumper. I don't have a jacket. Tommy has barely anything. It's not good. It's not good. I'm bad mom and just bad person in general. So I do think you're a bad mom, but I would argue that you are a horrible meteorologist. Horrible. Horrible. Horrible. Mind you I am on Finn eyes, having literally frozen my tics. Thank God I worked for sweat up in laser question. And I went to Pop World afterwards, which made me very sweaty also. Oh, I saw that. I was so.

jealous, so jealous. I would love to go to Pop World. You know what I realized so much, so many of our podcast listeners, I realized the Venn diagram between Pop World guests and should I delete that listeners, there is a huge subsection. When I was in there, I met so many podcast listeners. And I was like, the last time I was in Pop World, this happened too. It's like, obviously, we've got a lot of pop girlies listening to this pod. Oh my God, I love that. We should do a Pop World night out. Oh, I would love that. I did a full. full rendition of foundations by Kate Nash

basically alone because by that point I was with one of the girls on the hen who was Australian and apparently Kate Nash did not make it to Australia so good and then oh god

you belong with me by Taylor Swift came on and I shit you're not the song before it had been there three lines on a shirt like it's coming home so like all the boys all the men were on the dance

for like it's coming home and then the next song was just like you're on the phone with your girlfriend she's upset and I was like oh hello

I love it. Love it. Love it. It was so good. We've got to get onto this guest. Well, we do. But before we get on to the guest, we've got to get onto the trigger warning that we've been a bit nervous to give you since we did the interview. Yes, yes, yes, yes. We have been, yeah, we can't lie. We are definitely a little bit nervous about this episode just because it is, it potentially could be quite triggering for anyone that's struggling with food, with, with, weight with eating issues like we talk a lot about calories in this and we talk about we talk about weight loss the whole episode really is about is about weight loss and billy's choice to lose weight yeah and and everyone's choice to lose weight and how that's okay in in a in an environment where it feels like it's not okay anymore yeah there's definitely like al said it's potentially triggering I think yes but it's also inevitably confronting like even when I listen back to this my heckles go up and I'm like oh my god like I'm actually quite uncomfortable that we are facilitating

this conversation in a way because it does on the surface or like kind of seem to be at odds with a lot of what we talk about online but we realized we've been trying to have this conversation for months and months about weight loss within the current climate about how thin is back about what right people have in the public eye to lose weight about all of this and we hadn't actually spoken to anyone for whom that was a reality or a choice and we thought if we were going to have this conversation properly. And if we were going to do it the justice it deserved, then we needed to talk to somebody who was living that and experiencing that. And we both have followed Billy. I've loved her as a journalist for years and years and years. And she has been sharing this

really publicly. So when we started having the conversation here and between ourselves, we just thought, who better to have this conversation with than her. And whilst editing it, we want to be really careful that we don't trigger so many people. We also need to be honest about the fact this is Billy's story and we don't want to censor what she's saying or sort of play around with her truth and cut bits out of that so we've tried to kind of leave it

as organically as it happened but because of that we need to say if you don't want to listen to it we 1,000% understand and if it's not for you then honestly no no hard feelings and we'll just catch you next week because if you

are in the wrong place this may be a very difficult episode for you to listen to and we don't want to force you to sit there going this is part of the conversation and you have to be part of it and you have to hear another side and another point of view you don't you don't need to listen to another point of view you can stay exactly as you are and completely admit this you know you don't need this if you don't want it however if you do please do keep listening but we are putting a trigger warning in place definitely if you need to protect yourself protect yourself but if you do want to listen like I think we'd love you to listen with an open mind and hear

this perspective from someone, like you said, who's living it and who's really, and like you say, Billy is an amazing journalist and she did this, this super, like, eloquent piece for Sunday Times style about losing weight in the public eye, but also just being open publicly with friends and family about losing weight and how difficult that is in this culture today. And we just thought that it was such a worthwhile thing to discuss. And yeah, I hope you, we hope, we really hope you, it um as always we're not open for feedback no just kidding we are totally open for feedback um but yeah we just thought it was a really it was a nice nuanced conversation and a nuance that we were like really interested to delve into so we hope you enjoy it we're really sorry if it is

triggering for anyone but we definitely thought it was worth having if this is goodbye we will catch you on thursday if not please enjoy the interview here's billy bartia Billy, thank you so much for coming in and being here. We are so excited to chat to you. We've been wanting to do this for a really, very long time. For ages. I followed you for so long. Thrilled to be here.

Thank you so much for having me. We've got your own podcast now. We do. With Sasha Polaro. Shout out. Spill. It is in its first season and I love it. I love having a podcast.

It's like weekly therapy. It's a hoot. That we're just sharing with everybody. I know. I know too much about that bit. Yeah, I have to stop myself. Otherwise, I'm like, no more words are coming out of food today. It's like, you're lulled into a false sense of security, aren't you?

Because you're just like, there, by yourselves in this little studio. You're like, who's listening? We're just screaming into the void, but we're not. It's a full void. Yeah, yeah. Thousands of people are in this void with you. Oh, my hands are getting glad we at. Sorry.

Sorry, there's no one here. It's a big of anything. Lonely, lonely, lonely void. So the podcast called Spill. Podcast is called Spill. With former guest of, should I delete that, Sasha Polari. Yes. Childhood besties.

I love that. I'm so jealous that you've got to be friends with Sasha for your whole life. I know. It's a blessing and a curse. Yeah, I'm messing. She's the greatest. And we basically were just like having these conversations all the time about the ups and downs of life and like the funny bits and the hard bits and the messy bits. And we were like, surely other people are feeling this way too about how difficult and how great life can be.

in equal measure, shall we just record them? And then we had this really like, not breakdown, but like a bit of a like, beep before. We went live on the first episode, like, was this just a good idea in our heads? Will anyone actually listen to this? Do we sound like idiots? But yeah, it's been, it's been lovely. It's been so great. And I was just saying to you guys, like, recording days are now my favourite days. Yeah, well, you get to hang out with your best, which is so great. And call it work. Yeah. Love that. So, Billy, what we would absolutely love to talk to you about is the brilliant Sunday Time style article that you wrote, which is around a conversation that we have been having a lot, actually privately as well as on the podcast, which is around losing weight intentionally and declaring openly that you're losing weight as an objective. Yeah. Which obviously there is so much taboo around it and that was what your article centred on and it was so brilliant.

And we have so many thoughts and opinions and we just can't wait to talk about it. But I'd love to hear in your own words, like how that article came about, why you wanted to write it and what the response was. It was all really overwhelming. And it started like way before the article came out. I basically, I left my job in magazines, my full-time job in magazines, to go freelance. Because one, I really wanted to go freelance. But the second reason was because I really wanted to lose weight. and I was like, I can't do this while I'm in a really demanding full-time job.

Like, I just, I'm not a person that can compartmentalize. Like, work needs to go there and life needs to go there. It just, in this industry, it bleeds into each other so heavily that I was like, I just, I can't do it while doing this. So I was like, in my head had declared this. Like, that is actually your reason for leaving your job. But it felt like way too embarrassing to say that out loud because I was like, how come everybody else can, like, manage this work?

balance and get to a gym class before work and do all this stuff that I can't do. So I'm just going to keep this to myself. And then maybe like six months into last year, I told my really close friends and my family about it being like, right, this is actually like motor operandi for this year. This is we're going ham. And I thought, should I, should I publicize this? Because actually, like, I work much better when I'm like accountable for something. publicly.

I'm the same. Yeah, it's, it just, like, I don't know whether it's like the competitiveness in me, but, like, it just pushes me. Yeah. So I don't want to fail anyone. I always think once I've said it. I'm like, well, bollocks. I've got to stick with that.

But that's a huge pressure to, like, put out so publicly when it is such a personal thing. So I kind of thought, like, maybe I should write about this. Maybe I shouldn't. Maybe I should. Maybe I shouldn't. And I was talking to Laura, the editor of Sunday Time style. I was messaging her on Instagram because I'm obsessed with Dolly Auditon's column. I think it's so brilliant.

And she had written a column and it got a really, it was like, as they all are, very divisive. And the comments were wild. And I was talking to her being like, oh my God, I've got so many thoughts about this column. Like, please can I write a follow up? She was like, I would love you to write a follow up. But the timing is going to be too late from what we've published. And so I was like, I've got her attention. and now in this conversation should I drop in

that there's this other piece that I have been sat on and really want to write and in my head I was like the only place I want to put this is Sunday time style that was my first ever job in magazines yeah what I say job for week intention and I was like it would be quite like a magical sort of full circle moment if like the biggest piece I want to write goes here

so I sent her a message on Instagram and I was like I'm just going to send you a pitch on email about something that I want to write about. So this was like beginning of September and in 2023 and so yeah I sent it over and bless her within within 24 hours she was like yes let's go and I was like oh shit I was like I thought she'd be like you know what we're a women's title we can't cover this like I kind of had this like slight hope that she was just going to be like nah yeah she's like yeah 100% we want this I was like oh right she's like can you file by next week

And I was like, yeah, Sean, thinking, no, I can't write this. And I was going to, this is like £10 in the Bratjar. I was going to the US Open with Sky Sports, great story for my life. And so I had this whole week in New York to write this article. I was going to have a real Carrie Bradshaw moment about it. But I just clammed up every single time until I was on the flight back. And I had to file the, I was landing, I was on a red eye landing in the morning and I had to file that morning. and I was like, oh, I'm going to have to write this on this flight.

Oh, that is big, like, 90s journalist in the poor, though, is it? But, you know, how you cry so much more when you fly? I don't know if this is like a you thing, but I'm sure there's, like, a science behind it. Then when you're in the air, you're hysterical. I gave myself a window of two and a half hours to write this, because obviously he had to bed in with a film first. And I was like, let's just warm her up with gladiator. And then I...

Easy watching. And I was hysterical. really hysterical i was like jesus fucking christ this is this is like i am so naked in this article by saying this out loud that like i'm not happy in the body that i am that i want to be slimmer for health reasons because like let's face it life would be easier if i was in a smaller body and i was just like i do not know how this is going to go and then we had this i sent it to i sent it to I sent it to the editor and they were really, really lovely about the piece. They basically didn't touch it.

And I was like, great. Like, I need a brace for impact. When's this going live? They're like, mm, TBC. I was like, oh, right. Just going to hold this anxiety together in the months where you wait for this. So it ended up being like five months after I filed that the piece actually came out. I think it was beginning of Feb or, yeah, it was beginning of Feb or, yeah, it was beginning

of Feb when it came out. So I had this like anticipation that it was coming. and I had to just like bank it because I was like I can't if I think about this too much I'm going to just ask them to take it take it out and delete it and I was like I couldn't sleep the night before it came out I was absolutely shit in my pants I was like everyone's going to hate me because this is you're not supposed to say this anymore you're not supposed to say I'm not I'm not content in the like body that I'm in I'm supposed you're supposed to be in this era of like just loving yourself and I'm not that isn't how I feel about my body so it was

yeah it was tough but the response was it totally blew me away and it was really unexpected I didn't I genuinely didn't expect it to like have the reach that it did and and have the messages that it did it but I'm glad it's yeah I'm glad it's out there because it was like it was a positive response to it A really positive response. And I suppose, like, a lot of people said that they felt the same way, which I sort of, like, anticipated there would be some people that felt that way. But I was really worried that there would be a community of people that were like, you are doing us a huge disservice by saying that you want to be smaller. And that's kind of, like, minimizing our impactors as a, as like a body positive community. Did you get any of that?

No, none. Great. Which I'm like, what does that say about that community? Are they okay with me saying this? Like, do they some of them feel that way about their bodies too? Like, it's just so layered. It's just not so black and white when it comes to body at all. It's so laid.

And it's so interesting that you felt that you were so scared to say, I am losing weight and it's okay for me to want to lose weight. It's so interesting that you were so scared about doing that. when, like, in relatively recent terms, like, that would have just been, like, normal for someone, for anyone to say, like, I'm losing weight, I'm going on a diet. And it's only over the past, like, what do you reckon, like, six, probably seven years. Yeah. Yeah, particularly in print.

Like, that was a standard for women's magazines to have that. It was like a catch-all, we do not police women's bodies. We don't talk about them. We don't talk about them getting smaller. We don't, we're like, and I adore stylists for this. Like, they were like, we will never, like, publish diet. culture, related content. We will never like tell women how they should or shouldn't be.

Like that was a huge reason why I wanted to work for the magazine. And so, but, you know, that was kind of a blanket ban across most women's titles. They were like, we're not, we can't like, we can't do this anymore. We can't add this to the, to the churn of what is already expected. Which is a very interesting thing when you think about the destructive role that women's magazines initially played in like sort of our relationship with our bodies. I think like that was probably the form of. time for me was it was it was with access to magazines that I became aware of all the ways my body

was failing the beauty standard or whatever so it's very it's it's really interesting that they were so like integral in the demise initially and then was so and then like you say it's like completely changed it's a really interesting it's it's a really interesting shift yeah it just yeah it's it's it's just it's so great it is and it has shifted so much in the past, yeah, like probably 10 years. With body positivity going mainstream. And I do think that it is, I think that movement has definitely shifted the needle for some parts of society in accepting larger bodies or maybe, arguably, at least just accepting

bodies that are just outside of the beauty standard. but it leaves so much left unsaid and the fact that we can't talk about this middle ground now where it's like all of us we've grown up in a world that not only values but rewards thinness and we're still living in it yeah but now we've got the added layer of like but we have to love our bodies despite still living in this world and if we say anything outside of that we're failing we're failing yeah we're failing once again we're failing we're failing we're to meet the beauty standard, now we're failing to meet the expectation that we're going to love our bodies as they are, even though we're still like operating in this world that

wants us to be, that tells us that we still have to be thin and that is set up for smaller bodies. Like, we can't get away from that. But I also thought it was really interesting what you said about the community that you were worried we're going to be angry with you. And it's so interesting that you may never have even been a huge advocate for body positivity. Never what. Exactly. but it's like it's this assumed thing that that's your role because you're in a bigger body you have to accept body you you must be an advocate for it by virtue of existence and it's so it's like I find that bit so interesting that people just place that on you because if you're in like a front facing position if you're in a profession where like you have to be publicly in places doing things and seemingly like don't hate yourself when you exist in a larger body like you must be

body positive. I remember it was like 2018 and the Evening Standard do this like Londoners list and it's like a thousand people in London and I had no idea that I'd been put on this list. It was like a yeah a thousand influential people in London and they'd put me on there for like fashion and beauty or something. Stunning. And I was like absolutely gas to be on this list. Yeah, amazing. And I got this, yeah, I literally got this message through from them and they were like, this is your bio. It had gone live at this point. And the bio was like, body positive advocate, Billy Bartia. And I was like, I love that that's what you've taken because never once have I ever said,

I am content in the body that I'm in. I love my body. I am, I could not be happier for people that feel that way about their body like fucking congrats. But it's just, that isn't me. I've never, I have never ever said those words. But by being in this industry in this world where like, I don't. don't really look like anybody else, I must be a body positive advocate. And I was like, it's so mad to me that that's just thrust upon you because you are having a good time

in the body that you're in. Like, you're seeing your friends and you're traveling. You're existing. You're visible. Exactly. How did it make you feel then for that title to be put on you without you? It was like a strange thing that I felt like now I have to live up to this like now I've got to be this body positive person and like and like I said I'm I'm I'm honestly I'm so thrilled for people that that do feel that way about their body it's just I don't know if I will ever get there if I can't if I have the capacity to get there about my body and I don't know if like I need to I'm happy to just like I'd be so happy if I get to a place where I just accept this is where I live and like it's a peaceful mutual existence I actually I

actually think it's incredibly difficult to get to a place where you're, you like so positively and passionately love yourself. I think it's, I think it's near one impossible actually to get to that place because it just takes such a huge amount of effort. And I'm like, can I not put my efforts in like a few other pies while we're doing this? It's true. It's hard. It's really hard. It's impossible. And I feel like that as well. Like, which I don't know, kind of of, I guess, might make me a fraud because I talk about body image so much, but I don't feel like I'll ever be at a place where I love my body, but I don't necessarily feel like that has to be the goal either. Like you said, you can just make peace with it. It's such a tall task.

And like, again, like in your position where people are coming to you for relatability and for comfort and to feel like they're accepted as part of the community, there's a pressure that comes with that too because you're now like the beacon for that. You're now the person that's flying the flag for so many women and like fuck me as that impacted like I can feel the impact of that like it's from from you like I'm like thank god Alex like exists and like calls this shit out but it's to say that like what you're asking for in any of those realms is to be perfect and like doesn't exist it's categorically impossible to exist so you feel like you've made peace with maybe knowing that you're never going to love your body

and you're totally at peace with that. So I had this human design reading. Yes, you mentioned this before I was recording. I'm so intrigued. What is this? We talk about it on the, on spill as well. Okay. But it's basically like the, and I'm,

and I will like caveat this by saying like I'm not the most woo-woo person. Okay. But I was like, you know what? I want to know more about myself. Like this is the year of discovery. Yeah. And your human design is basically like, the energy in the universe when you're born that like the stars emit so it's like what star

particles in the universe that imprint on you the energy that imprints on you when you're born wait so so so you being born that releases like particle is that there's already energy in the atmosphere but like when you're born it's like what energy is around that you like absorb that fundamentally makes up here you are as a human being okay So, like, what was like, I was going to say, like, what was like number one in the charts at the time? Because I'm wildly toxic, the one thing I've really held on to is that my willpower channel is not always full. So I don't constantly have willpower. And I'm like, thank God, validated that sometimes I just can't be asked.

But one of the other things was is that I, like, don't have the capacity fundamentally to love myself entirely. And I'm like, you know what? I just, I feel like that takes a, like, a huge. actual weight off my shoulders where I'm like I don't have to work on this to like to get that far like don't get me wrong there's work to be to be done in progress to be made for sure and like I feel like I'm on the ladder where I'm getting there but it's a relief that's that's actually really good point to have that objective that goal like taken away to be very cheesy then makes it more about the journey than the destination right we're all about the journey we hate the word journey

and we say it about seven times an episode and I hate myself for it. I rinse people so hard when they're like, I'm on this journey. I'm doing the work. I'm like, oh, good God. The thing is, though, it's like, it is a very, like, it is a very beautiful thing, the journey and the word.

And like, I don't know, I feel testament to it. And I don't know, like, I've come quite close to loving myself, but definitely since having a baby. The neutrality is so valuable because I don't think the love can be consistent and it's so dependent on a million things and that's the unfortunate thing. It's like you can, yeah, maybe like I loved myself before I had a kid and then I'm like, well, I've probably loved myself because I had a really slim, great body. Maybe that was why. I don't know. But then you can't maintain it.

If it's, if the love is like dependent on so many things, the neutrality is a really valuable piece because that just means that, yeah, okay, the love's not there. but it doesn't get replaced with hatred. It can be replaced with nothing, which is quite important. And I don't think we give enough space for that because, like you say, if love's always the goal and you can't get it, then I think a lot of people think,

well, fuck it, the opposite of love is hate and that's where I'm going to sit. Whereas if you go towards, like, peace and neutrality and ambivalence, isn't it? I know. I was like, where the fuck? I like that.

It just flew off your tongue. I can't wait to reuse. that today and claimers if I'd just come up with me too go go forth and thrive my little for stories um yeah I just think like that is yeah that is that is something that we don't it is it is quite a hard thing to teach and quite a hard thing to learn because it doesn't feel like it goes with this whole like love myself 100% yeah why whereas I feel kind of nothing about myself it doesn't feel the same but I think like in the to your point like in the feeling nothing you can then fill up the other jars that are on your table like I feel really great about like

how I've cared for this person or cared for myself or like yeah I don't think love needs to be this like I'm amazing it could be like how you just show up as a person and it's not it I just think that it is it it it's just a lot to ask to like have those cups full all the time constantly totally do you think the self-love content that's on Instagram, do you think that that is helping us move forward, is helping move the needle with body image? Or do you think it's kind of plastering over the cracks a bit of like what fundamentally lies beneath, which is like why we hate our bodies? Oh, such a double-edged sword, isn't it? That's a big question. No, like I totally appreciate both parts because

I think it's a really beautiful thing to see people love themselves online and like that does give me more confidence in the body that I'm in. I'm like, pop off. Like, she's, she looks fantastic. She is, and that's the thing. Like, how I feel about myself is so secular to how I feel about myself. Like, that is not how I feel about other people. Like, objectively, I can see everybody is so beautiful.

It's just, I don't give myself that same grace. And I think seeing self-love online in whatever shape or form that is, I think that's a really beautiful gift to give to other people. but you're right it's had to kind of have this huge sort of moment because otherwise we're just told oh well you're a piece of shit because you don't look like everybody else so it's it's it's I feel like it's come out of growing weeds self-love because you're it's like this toxic environment of you won't you won't ever be good enough unless you look like this but it's it's like hard to I think the the problem not the problem with the movement or the problem that I have with some of the movement is that I'm like, if I don't get there, then where do I sit in this community? Like, am I invited? I think you have the added pressure though as well. It's like, as you said with the evening standard thing where it's like by virtue of your size, you're being labelled as body positive because people assume that that's

what your visibility means. And I think that's because perhaps it's a misunderstanding or an oversimplification of a movement that just then makes assumptions and projects it onto other people because I think watching individual people love themselves, you're right, is beautiful and it does move the needle because it does say, I don't hate myself. And it's like, well, that's a fucking treat. Yeah. Like good. Like, and why should you? And that helps. I think it all nudges and nudges. But I think the like the simplification of it that is like, well, this woman loves herself at this size. So you must at yours. Because otherwise, why are you here? Or like, and it's like that. And I feel like maybe that's kind of the way.

that often, you know, that if you look at like sort of mainstream media is always sort of like eight months behind Instagram in terms of like how we're talking, I kind of feel like maybe that's, like we still kind of have this quite one like dynamic, no, one dimension view of the self-love or body neutrality, self-confidence, body positivity, you know, it's it's misunderstood that body positivity came from fat liberation, which came from women of colour, like, you know, There's a lot of it that's misunderstood, misrepresented, not talked about enough. And I think maybe that's the damage is where it's like, where the nuance. We love that word too, didn't we?

Yeah, we do like that word. Yeah, we do like that word. Yeah, but maybe that's what's missing is like conversation, conversation like what you had, what you've been talking about is saying like, okay, great, that self-love exists, but also I'm not there. Or like, I want to change my body and that's okay too. Yeah, right? I know, it's like a hard thing to say that you want to change a part of yourself publicly. Yeah.

And whatever that might be, like, whether you want to be physically different or, like, mentally different or just fundamentally different. Like, it's essentially saying I'm not happy in the place that I'm in. And I think that was, like, the biggest thing to say out loud because, like, I have so much in my life that I am, I'm so happy about. That's what I was going to say to you. You seem, like, such a happy person. Oh, I'm like, I am, like, fundamentally, like, I am a really happy person. person. Like, I love seeing the, like, my glass is half full at all times. Like, it's, I'm a, I am a positive person. I am an optimistic person. I like, like, having fun is my, is not,

is everyone's favorite thing, but like, not, it's not, I can't relate, can't relate to any of this. Thank you, Susan over here. What's fun. But, like, I am hedonistic to my core. Like, I love nothing more than a big, juicy night out. Like, I like being, like, I'm a relatively extraverted person. Like, I am as grateful. for all of the fun and all the joy that I have in my life. And this is the hard bit to, like, weigh up because 99% at the time, that's my focus. That's where my brain is. But 1% when I let that voice get loud, it tells me I'm not, I'm not, like, good enough

for any of those things because I'm in the body that I'm in. And that's what, like, why, a big reason why I'm like, I want to lose weight so I don't, so that voice can just fuck off. Like, I just need her to just get right in the back of the shelf and, like, just stop coming out. So it's, it's like, it is difficult to put yourself in that position, particularly when you're like, no, have a great time. Life's good. And that is how I feel a lot of the time. Yeah.

Because you are doing it publicly. Like, you're doing 75 days. 75 hard, yeah. 75 hard. Yeah. Visibly. Like, you're doing it on Instagram. Yeah.

That was actually, like, such a whim. Did not plan that. Really? What is it? Can you explain it? It's like a, it's a 75 day challenge where for 75 days consistently, no days off. You do two workouts a day, one indoor, one outdoor. Both of them have to be minimum 45 minutes. You drink a gallon of water a day. Oh, God. You lost me there. Be hard, yeah. You have to stick to a diet. You have to take a progress picture every day and you have to read 10 pages of a nonfiction book. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. That's a full-time job. Oh, I did no work for 75 days. That was my job. That is a full-time job. Yeah. So that's an hour and, it's an hour and half of exercise a day. Well, you think it's like just an hour and a half, but like, by the time you've like, lace up your shoes and gone for your walk. Yeah. Got the sports car on. Yeah. It takes at least 10 minutes. Lasting length.

Yeah. Go to walk to the gym, got to the tube to the gym, gone to a class, like hours stack up. I could not sustain that for more than two days. I didn't think I'd be able to do a week. Did you do the whole thing? Yeah. Really sadly, like five days before I was due to finish, I got norovirus and was like so sick that I just couldn't, I couldn't move because I didn't have anything left in my body. I was just like a crying little heap on the floor. 70 days and still a lot of days. I added it on after. But I actually loved it.

I loved it. And like the support from people was immense. People were so kind to me and so generous. I think that's what I've, like, what I've held on to in a really precious way from the article and from sharing online is like people have been so kind. Yeah. And actually, like, so much kinder than I am to myself. Did you get any negativity from it at all?

From putting the weight loss out there. Yeah, from like, seven, like, talking about 75 hard or... I got like a couple of messages being like, we get it, you go to the gym. And I was like, so sorry about that. It's a personality now. It really is. I get a lot of this message is, don't worry. Yeah, exactly.

We're kindred spirit, 75 harders. I can't say it's the same thing. Yours is so much harder. No, no, no. Running, I ran 25 days without a break. No way. I ran for two minutes the other day. I live in Richmond and I always see runners run along Richmond Hill and I'm like, so main character.

I just want to give it a go. And I ran it and I was like, somebody was me and hated it at the end. I'm like, how on earth do people run 26.2 miles? No, fucking idea. There's my fucking mind, no. So, yeah, but I couldn't do it. I couldn't do 75 hard. You basically do in your marathon training.

No, you have days off. That's the treat. That's the treat. Marathon training is not what you think it is. It's like, because you eat so, you eat so much and you get so much rest time. Towards the end, anyway. If you've got to run 19 miles on Wednesday, best believe Monday, Tuesday, resting. Thursday, Friday, Friday, Sunday, resting.

It's so impressive. It's the water. for me. Couldn't do that water. Oh, it was, it took a lot to get used to that. Yeah, I couldn't sleep for more than like two hours for the first week. Without peeing? Yeah. Fuck sake. No, no, no, no, no. Yeah. In fact, I was listening to one of your Epps this week about that poor girl that wet the bed.

Oh. I know. And I was like, could have been me in the beginning of this talent. There, but by the grace of God. Something I'm going to take from that, though, is reading 10 pages of nonfiction a day. That's where you'd lose me. No interest. That was my favourite part of the challenge. Yeah, it's so much easier to read fiction. So nonfiction is hard.

Nonfiction is hard. It's so hard. But I have literally about 75, but nonfiction books just waiting for me. There you go, 75 hard. Yeah, yeah. That's not the new challenge is 75 hard. Read these 75 books. Maybe I'll do that.

You won't. No, 10 a day. 10 pages a day, that's doable. That's like bite-sizeable. You know what the tip to the tip to doing all of it is you've got to get the meatiest bits done in the first two hours of the day? Like wake up and read And wake up and chug two litres of water

And then you can actually have like A medium normal day Yeah, I'd always do my runs in the morning If you've got to get it out the way Kind of handing over you If I know, if I don't do it in the morning And I'm like, I'm going to go to gym in the evening Are you fuck?

I'm not No, no way I really tell myself I will Then I get there and I've got no energy Because I've like used it all in the day And I'm like, oh, this is a bad idea Yeah My Fitness Pell

Yes You talked about that as well right? Yeah I've actually used my fitness power for a while, sort of on and off, like when I've gone through like hardcore health, because the thing is, and maybe this will, this will help like the context of this conversation. I can really only live in extremes. I'm an all-or-nothing kind of gal. So when I go all, I go all. Like lockdown, it was horrendous, but I had structure a routine for the first time of my life and I lost some weight in that period because I was like,

oh I can I there's no distraction here there's no rosé all day happening there's it's just this so when I get into it I'm like I want to track everything I want to be in control like I want to know what's going on and so when I when I was like okay right we're getting back on the health wagon we're getting back on the sort your life out wagon I started started tracking calories again and I know that like for some people that's a that's a huge trigger counting calories and knowing what's going in, but I think I subconsciously just ignore a lot of what I eat because I don't want to reckon with what I'm actually eating because I know it's not good for me. So I'm like, I'm going to eat this and just not think about it, which is a very bad way of

like emotionally connecting to food. And I suppose this like kind of falls into the accountability bit where I was like, I need to, if I'm going to have it, I just need to stick it in so I know what I'm having and so while I was I'm like monitoring what's going in calorie wise what I'm looking at way more is the nutrients and the macros I'm I'm so happy to like fill up all the calories I need to be eating in a day like there's no part of me that's like oh I'm just going to leave it at lunch and not have dinner absolutely not I will have dinner but I want it to be like stuff that's going to help me get to my goal yeah but useful use of calories and help kind of give you an awareness of...

Totally. Nutrition. Yeah. Because I do have to admit that, like, it makes me bristle, even the mention of my fitness pal. I get it. I do really get it. Because of the toxicity of how a lot of people have used it, like, historically, how I

used it historically, you know. It's very easy to misuse. Very, very easy. You become, like, I, at least, I remember using it, but quickly becoming very competitive with it. I don't know if that's the right word. But like, can I drop more calories? I would like, I want to beat this, I want to beat the calories every day.

I've got to drop below the calories. And then once I've dropped below that, I'm like, no, I'm going to drop below even that. And it's like, yeah, I guess it's like a throwback for me for like, but I understand also to give you an awareness of what, like, how you're fueling your body. That totally makes sense. Yeah. I think, I do think that like we can be missing, especially in our busy lives, like, oh, are we hitting certain goals? And I mean that, like, strictly in like a nutritional sense.

Yeah. Even though I know you're talking about it in a weight loss sense as well. With my fitness power, with anything like it, I just think women aren't taught to use it. You're given a tool which can be helpful and theoretically should be because we should be able to eat enough protein and we should be able to fuel ourselves. Right. But we don't know how and because we have been fed misinformation and we've been fearmongered

and we've been abused really by the food. and fitness and beauty industries to the point that we are so fucking confused about what we should be doing that it's inevitable that an app like that gets misused because the focus has always been on calories like and you know the thing but the thing is is we can't get away from that they are now legally on every menu in the UK which in and of itself shouldn't be a bad thing we should theoretically know when we look at a calorie that that equates to about right for a pizza it's like okay well that that that kind of makes sense. But we are so scared of calories because we've been conditioned to be so

fucking scared of them that so many of us can't even see them without just getting wildly triggered and massively hurt and panicked. And then we end up in really toxic spires. And it's not our fault that we end up like that. And it's not really my fitness power because that's just one of a million things. But it's like it's such an inevitability that we can't handle it. And I think that's one of the, you know, we talk quite a lot about the thing that triggers people. And And it's like, of course it fucking triggers people. Of course seeing the app is triggering. Of course seeing the calories on the menu is triggering.

Of course any of this conversation is triggering for a whole group of us that were brought up in a really, really, really absurd way. But it's like within that, there is a way of grasping knowledge. There is a way of learning. There is a way of managing your nutrition and managing your diet that is healthy. But I think we get so overwhelmed by the very thought of it that we can't break it up in our heads. And I think that's one of the hardest things for people is to try and build a good relationship with food

if historically had a bad one. You have to rationalise it, which is the hardest thing to do when you have an emotional attachment to something. So like when I first started using it and I was like putting together like all the things that I love to have at brunch, so I want eggs and I want feta and I want toast

and I want avocado. And when I put it all in, I was like, that's like coming out of like 650 calories. I'm like, that is so much for like a brunch. And then I had to rationalise it. I was like, but I'm getting protein, I'm getting good fats, I'm getting a carbohydrate that's giving me energy, I've got vegetables in there, like all of this stuff, yes, that like everything has a caloric value, but all this stuff, one, is delicious and I love it

and I want to eat it. And two, it's, these are, this is good for me. I have to have calories. We have to learn to make peace with calories, though, with their existence. Because it's tricky. That's, you're right. That's where it's so easy as I've had a very disordered relationship with that sort of thing. And it's like you say, you look at that and you think, well, the number's high, so it means bad.

But when you one peel back and it's like, no, this isn't bad. This is really good. This is okay. But like how many of us have a number in our heads? If you close your eyes now, I guess everyone listening has got a number in their head. It's a calorie amount. They don't think they should go over in a day. And they don't want to acknowledge that they're doing that.

They don't want to acknowledge any part of that. so it's like we can't we need it's so much more education but like i don't know how you backdate it all to help all of us for your healthy relationship it's confronting now when you're trying to educate yourself and that's what i am trying to do now i'm like what can i eat that that is going to like satisfy me and also be delicious because otherwise if it's not delicious i'm just not interested and that is like you have to read about it and you have to like look at recipes and like be you're unafraid that you are going to need food to fuel all the things that you want to do. Like, if you want to run, if you want to go to the gym, like when I do that when I'm fasting,

it's so much harder. And it's not even deliberate fasting. It's just that I've been a lazy bitch and not like got early enough to make the eggs and like sat down for half an hour before I go to the gym. But I just, I'm like working out now that it's you have to eat. You have to eat. You can't get around it. You have to eat.

And I totally so understand. how that triggers people because it would have triggered me and then I would have made bad decisions out of that thinking oh I need to eat well I'm just going to have this crumb and then be so hungry and then binge so it's it I'm like there's I'm got to find a medium here and it's and it's hard even and this is this is like me totally thinking out loud but I'm even like like worried that people are going to be triggered listening to this conversation but then I do also think that it's an important conversation to have, like we talked about before, it's like we can't

ignore this like huge side of things, which is like we've all grown up, totally fucked up about how we're supposed to look and like our relationship with eating, like you mentioned conflicting information. It is so crazy and so overwhelming, like I, the amount of information that we have been fed, eat this, but don't eat this, but actually eat that, but don't eat, it's so confusing and also this is going to give you cancer so completely avoid that at all costs and it's like how do we eat? How do we eat and we do have to keep eating that's the thing that's what you say you can't so you've got all this misinformation so then you go and make decisions which you don't think are necessarily empowering and you can't avoid the things like my fitness power or like the

calories on the side of menus and it's like I still got to make a choice and I don't know what fucking choice to make yeah and we have to make peace with all of those things and then if we don't have this conversation I feel like we can't really make peace with those things I don't know the answers it's just it's fucking confusing and hard but totally agree with you and i don't think there's i don't think there's a right or wrong to doing any of this like there's no right or wrong to like saying you want to lose weight and losing weight there's no right or wrong to like being this like pinnacle of self-love that it's just not it's what's right and this is words right out of sasha plari's mouth it's what's right for you right now yeah right now what i want out of my

life is to lose weight for health reasons to feel physically fitter to feel more able and to like finally kind of get rid of this, don't get me wrong, but get rid of, I'm still going to be, I'm still going to be a large girl because that is just fundamentally who I am. What I, what I don't want is I don't want my body to consume my every thought because I want my every thought to be consumed by like, fuck, life is amazing and life is fun and I'm so lucky to be here. Yeah. Let's just have a really good time. That's, that's where I want to get to. I love that. I feel that you get, I mean, it works in your mouth. to look at you, to listen to you, you feel, it feels like you're really happy.

I am so happy in so much of my life and I am like incredibly grateful for that. I think that you speaking about this and it's clear from the like the Sunday Times article that you put on, you screenshots it on Instagram and it's clear from the response like how much the conversation is helping other people to feel less alone in this because there isn't the space for people to say, hey, I'm not happy with my body. I want to make a change. They're terrified of saying it. And I think opening up that conversation and being honest about it

is going to be really, has been really helpful for a lot of people. So I think that's really cool. Oh, thank you. Yeah. And you're just brilliant. And I don't want to have to wrap up because there's still so much more to say. You are, yeah, just great. And thank you so much for coming on and for sharing with us.

and yeah and you've got to come back with Sasha we want you guys back we would love that we would love that and then we can all go for dinner SIDT I was like I really hope she was to be my friend oh we're in that would be nice we're done yeah the four of us stunning okay perfect it's happening

Billy this has been so great thank you so much thank you thank you so much having me no worries for anyone who wants to find Billy will leave her details in the show notes and a link to hers and Sasha's podcast so you can go and listen to them Guys. Thanks, Billy. Thank you. Thank you. Should I delete that is part of the ACAS creator network.