Should I Delete That? - They wrote me off - then I won gold… with Dame Kelly Holmes

Episode Date: October 20, 2024

We have our first Dame on the podcast! The incredible Dame Kelly Holmes joins Em and Alex this week for a honest and vulnerable chat about mental health, motivation and ageing.Dame Kelly tells us about how her incredible story started when a PE teacher told her she could be good at something - and then, how watching the Olympics inspired a twenty-year long dream of becoming Olympic Champion. She tells us how she became a world class athlete whilst serving in the Army - and how she defied those who wrote her off because of her age to achieve her dreams, and then why she chose to speak out about the mental health struggles she dealt with during her career. Where does she find her motivation? How do athletes deal with being put on a pedestal? And more importantly…. how do you ACTUALLY get into the Olympics?Thanks so much to Ancient + Brave for facilitating this interview and sponsoring this episode. Ancient + Brave is a wellness brand that’s all about supporting your health goals, whether it’s improving your sleep, managing stress or boosting your energy. Ancient + Brave is one of the top-scoring B Corps in the world, and they donate to 1% for the Planet. That means every purchase you make is helping to support both your health and the environment. Follow Dame Kelly on Instagram @damekellyholmesFind out more about work of the Dame Kelly Holmes Trust here!Email us on [e-mail] us on Instagram:@shouldideletethat@em_clarkson@alexlight_ldnShould I Delete That? is produced by Faye Lawrence Music by Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This episode is brought to you by Ancient and Brave, the wellness brand that blends ancient wisdom with modern innovation to support your whole body health. Whether you're seeking to boost your energy, manage stress, improve sleep or navigate menopausal changes, ancient and brave offers a powerful toolkit of award-winning collagen, powders and supplements. These pure and potent formulas honour time-tested traditions while addressing the demands of today's modern world. At the core of ancient and Braves philosophy is the creation of positive daily rituals, simple yet transformative habits that empower you to thrive. And it doesn't stop there. As proud members of the global movement, 1% for the planet, ancient and brave dedicates 1% of all sales to environmental causes,

ensuring that each purchase contributes to the well-being of both you and the planet. Start your journey at ancient and brave. earth. So I did three Olympic games. Yeah. Did my first at 26 when I was serving in the army, came fourth. I got a bronze when I was 30 after only six weeks of running because I was injured so bad. And everyone said, well, obviously, that's it. And I thought, well, it's not gold, is it? Hello, and welcome back to delete that.

And I'm like slight. I'm in Clarkson, I'm in this. You're not in a good way. I physically couldn't be in a worse situation to be doing an episode with an Olympian. Like, I couldn't be feeling more physically different to the person that we speak to than I do right now. We have one of the most capable athletes that has ever existed on the podcast. You can't currently sit down, it looks like, nor stand up. Like, yeah, I can't move.

I'm decrepit. My sciatic, my back. I'm just, honestly, I am a barrel of bads this week. I am nobody's friend. Is that your bad? No, I've got loads out. I've got loads, right. Excellent.

Sorry, the matters. Right. Good, bads, awkward. Starting with one of the bads. I had to go to hospital. Well, I've been to hospital now a few times this week. It's been three times in a week, which is not great. Like, unscheduled hospital visits this week because of various things.

So I had my iron infusion on Sunday, which I expected to work a little bit quicker than it did. I was a little impatient. On Tuesday, I was in a really bad way. And I had to go back to the hospital. and I literally couldn't breathe and it was tragic like I I mean I obviously look horrific but I was super deep wheezy

and I just couldn't feel my arms and it was like it was just really bad I couldn't catch my breath even when I was sitting still and I just knew something was wrong he says I've got to go and the hospital asked me to go in anyway one of the things they had to rule out well they had to rule out loads of things I had to rule out one a heart attack

and then like yeah pre-eclampsia and all that stuff anyway so there was a lot of like I thought I can't breathe they'll just be checking out the chest situation not the case a full body examination ensued

and I know this is patriarchal I know it's my internalised like misogyny I know I'm a bad person for what I'm about to say I'm upholding Western beauty ideals and it's toxic and I'm sorry but I have not shaved my legs in months

like I can't reach them they're beyond struggle they are smooth, smooth hair. As part of the ECG, to rule out a heart attack, they put these little probes all over your body on your legs. So they're pulling up my leggings. I'm like, okay, good, yeah, you just rustle, good luck, like digging around in there for some bare skin.

Oh, right. And then I pull my leggings back down immediately afterwards. I was like, okay, that's enough of that. And then they do the preeclampsia test, which obviously is involving a lot of swelling. So they go back to my legs with it, like, squeezing my legs and really rubbing up and down. I was like, I hate myself.

And I know it's bad. The bad is that I'm being bad for saying it. But that's it. I get it. I get it. You are being bad, but I also get it. I just wasn't feeling my oats. You know what I mean? You didn't look great.

You saw my legs or my face. No, no, no. Your face. I saw your face. Oh, oh, is that what you meant? Oh, is that what you meant? I thought when you said you just weren't feeling, oh. I'm talking specifically about your legs.

I'm so sorry. No, I don't look well. I know I don't look well because every person I see goes, oh, God, are you all right? And I'm like, yeah, fine. But I do think I'm turning a bit of a corner. I think it's been, this is Friday now. It's been five days since the infusion.

Okay. And I'm definitely better than I was this time last week. so it's obviously working praise be you sound less breathless much less breathless that's what i mean yeah like i'm i still can't feel my arms when i walk but yeah i'm way less like way less breathless what's a bit of what's a bit of sensation in your arms don't complain you know yeah exactly exactly your body hates pregnancy doesn't it my body is just not thriving with the task it's been given it's like every area it's just it's like every alarm bell that is got is going. I asked my blood results

the other day, and I was reading them, and I was like, I don't know anything about anything except they, like, they go a different colour if they're out of the normal zone. You know, when you're reading the results on like a little app, website thing. Yeah, and they're like a different, well, they're a different color blue, if they're like out of

where they should be, and they were just all like, Bing, Bing, Bing, Bing, Bing. Oh, good. Excellent. Excellent. Like to see that. Anywho, what have you got? My bad is, I think I've developed an analogy to Betty and I'm not even joking and know that sounds crazy.

I don't even know how it happens, but I'm fine when I'm out and about and I come home and I get near her and I start sneezing and my eyes, literally, I keep having this allergic reaction. My eye when my eye like films over and it's like I can't see out of one eye and I'm like, this can't be happening.

So I'm just, it's fine. I'm taking an antihistamine day and she's not going anywhere, obviously. like I'd rather get rid of Dave than Betty it's fine but no one's asking you to choose but okay I know this is not an option I didn't need to me

I'm allergic to my dog can I give you my husband like it's only there to swap this one out is it a refundable allergy it feels like a fair swap I know but no she's not she's not going anywhere I just don't know how I'm going to handle this because it's like

I'm literally going to get out of the house I'm like oh my God thank God that because I can't breathe properly. I'm constantly sneezing. I'm driving everyone mad with the sneezing. I'm scaring the baby every three minutes. He like shits himself every time I sneeze because I do not have nice gentle sneezes. No, no. In a reciprocal comment, you look a little swall. I do. Don't I. While we're observing each other's ailments. You've been less swollen. I've definitely been more swollen as well so that's good

yeah you have you set the bar high for yourself there yeah that's my bad my awkward my awkward happened in this episode and I don't know whether you picked up on it I think you might have done

and I was like I need to ask her afterwards and then I forgot but there was a moment during this interview where we were all laughing and it was loud because we were all laughing and I thought it's safe for me to have a little inside burp

did you hear it i didn't even notice that is a testament to how many that you do oh my god and i and i went it's safe to have a little inside burp there's there's no it's it's very loud and suddenly it was like the the loud the loudness very very quickly turned to silence and i was like and dame kelly homes definitely noted did she you know when someone loses their trade of thought for a second because their interviewer just fucking burped. Gross, anyway. We are trying to establish level of professionalism. We've got a dame on.

This is it. This is us leveling up for the pod and this is how you behave. I know how embarrassing. We can't have nice things if you're going to do stuff like this. I don't deserve nice things. No, you do not. Barreling through my own orchids. Well, okay, I've got one of my own awkwards.

and I've got one of Boy Alex's. I seem to just be a mouthpiece for the man who's getting weirder every week. Love it. For my own, actually is shared with Boy Alex anyway. Allo's got a gingerbread man. Yes. Like a jelly cat, no jelly toy,

whatever they're called, like soft toy, gingerbread man. Loves it. Can't say gingerbread, just says man. So she talks all the time about the man. The man, the man. Which was something. It's terrifying. middle of the night, I just hear her going, a man.

I'm like, what do you mean a man? It's horrible. But as part of this, she's learned what else a man is, because then we've started doing like a man and a woman and a girl and a boy. And I'm like, anyways, you know, we're learning. When we're in the buggy and I'm pushing her out and about, she started doing it every time she sees a man. She goes, a man.

And it's so endearing and so horrible at the same time. God, I miss her so much. Oh, come, you can't, you get it, well, at your own risk, because she may well see you and declare a man. That's, yeah, that's the risk is we've had a few, we've had a bit of confusion, which is fine. Yeah, but it just comes with a lot of explanation from me. So sorry.

Yeah, yeah. She loves men, but she does it out the window because it's like, builders on the, a man. It's like, oh, good. they're everywhere I mean that that that does pose a problem as far as like gender fluidity is concerned doesn't it?

She is being very binary and this is what I have to keep talking to her about how do you navigate that? With difficulty because she's one but yeah there's a lot of that she did it like she does it in the park she sees dogs and she goes

like woofing at the dogs and then she just says man and as you can imagine Lots of men with dogs out and about. Man. She's a busy gal. Man, woof, woof. Like a lover.

Little tart. I'm just kidding. Right. Boy Alex says awkward. He had to recall an email this week that he sent to your dad. Yeah. Because he bo kisses at the end of it. It's been on sent it.

much because it is hilarious because it's it's not like my dad is the kind of man as well like you don't send kisses to him you know like he's very old school he would be like what the fuck why have you sent me kiss why have you sent me kisses he's only like just started sending kisses to us his daughters so I think he would be alarmed to think a little forward to receive them from Alex yes didn't know you could recall an email though that's cool I think he did it. I think you've got to do it within like 10 seconds. Like I think you can't hang about.

Bless him. How funny. I know. Anything good for me? Two goods. My first good is I did something that I have been thinking that I need to do forever. It's been on my to do this forever. And I've been putting it off forever.

And I did it and it took about 30 seconds and it was done. And I looked back and I was like, wow, that was so easy. And I don't know. I just thought like, oh my God. maybe this is like inspirational to anyone listening who's like also playing something off because it's so some of the stuff that we put off is so fucking easy tell me about it honestly you're talking to the woman that waits for debt collectors before she pays before she pays the simplest of bills the inspiration is for you yeah it feels loaded

it's not it's me my second good is this guess that we've gone is that you're good or have you got our good, another good, good. I know, I think this is probably, in a, in a week that's been, I think this is about as good as it was going to get. In a sea of bad. A dame. We had a dame on our podcast. Oh my God, that makes, that, I got back last night and I was like telling Dave, you know,

we had Kelly Holmes on the podcast, like telling him all about it. And then he went upstairs, we like parted ways to do our own thing. And he just called out, Al. And it's like, yeah. And he's like, did you make sure you called her Dame Kelly Holmes? I was like, of course. Of course. We asked.

We did ask. We didn't curtsy though. We did a, we didn't curtsy. But I love how we thought she'd come on and I just didn't know she was a dame. Of course we, oh my God. Iconic guest upping our clout and it'll never come back down again. We're very proud of ourselves. We're very excited about this guest.

We probably will. We are genuinely. so excited and obviously as you'll have heard by now this is in partnership with ancient and brave and it's just a bit of a dream come true to get these opportunities because we obviously I don't know like it I don't know it's like I could be cheesy I probably won't but it's just we feel really lucky to just do stuff like this so so lucky it's so it's so cool and they obviously like facilitated this conversation and we're just yeah we're so happy to be working with amazing brands and interviewing amazing people like dame the one the only dame kelly homes

everyone hi Kelly should we call you dame kelly before you came here we're like do we have to call her dame like all the time we're not to say kelly you call me kelly it's our first name and likely our last day that we're going to have on this podcast but we're very excited to interview you you. We are so happy to have you here. We had a little freak out before. I've had loads. I was on the phone to my mum the whole way here. I was like, you're not going to believe it.

It's very calm now, is. Thank you. Yeah. No one's ever described either. It was very calm, I don't think. That's not like the state we get to. But my brother, sorry, I actually had to tell my brother, so this is not even part of her interview questions. But when I told my brother that I was speaking to you today, he said, oh my gosh, can you please tell Heather, in 2004, when you were running your gold medal winning race, we were all watching it we were on holiday in France and you were like I can't gauge distances

you were close to the finish line and there was a power cut and there was never been like an outcry like it from like everyone in there there was like there were loads of us and we were kids and we were like oh my god

we've had it's losing their minds anyway and then it came back on and it just came back on if you won it was so cool like it came back on and then you were cross the line and it was huge my brother was eight at the time

and he's like I'll never forget it So I had to relay the story That's so cool It's so good when you come back From things like that Because of course you're just so merged With what's going on And you hear all the stories

It's really nice Do you get that a lot People saying to you like I remember when Yeah I'm 20 years old Because it is 20 years old I know

My gosh Oh my god I'm old No you're not I really am Well obviously You've had an incredible career Obviously

And you've won gold medals in the in the in the 2004 some Olympics but can we go back to the beginning yes and what happened in your life and kind of how that came to be that you ended up an Olympian because obviously that doesn't happen overnight no um so can we have a bit of the backstory would be great thank you i started running at school because my pa teacher told me i could be good at something and i think as a young person, it takes one person in your life to kind of almost direct you and make you feel good. And it was her, Debbie Page, her name, who is one of my friends to this day?

Is she? Yes, because I never forget her. And when I was 14, I watched Olympic Games in summer holidays. And I saw a guy from Great Britain, his name was Sebastian Co. And he was one of the greatest middle distance runners along with another guy called Steve Ovet for our country. He won gold. And I was already started running, I'd become English schools champion, all of these things, but it was at seeing something so big and a Brit like winning. I said, I'm going to be an Olympic champion. And it kind of just set me on that journey of a dream and a fluffy

cloud and being inspired because you can see what's possible. And that was the starting point. Of course, there's a lot more in there, but that was the starting point of me wanting to become an Olympic champion. Wow. And then very quick go over it because there's a lot of time between 14 and 34 when I won my two gold medals. Yeah, I won when I was 34. That was another 20 year dream. So I went in the army. I was inspired again by watching another Olympic Games when I was in the army and I was 22 years old and I just thought that's my second dream to be Olympic champion. So I got back into running, cut a long, showy short. I became a world class after. I was a world class after. And I just thought, that's my second dream to be Olympic champion. And I became a world class athlete at 23 and then I left the arm when I was 27 decided I wanted to

pursue my dream would be an Olympic champion and just never gave up on that dream. I always imagine when you see an Olympic particularly because I think we see such young Olympians and something. You see like Simone Biles and stuff. You always imagine that it's something that starts when you're at school and you're really guided by a coach and you've got kind of the time to be because it's harder when you're trying to. I can't speak from. any experience but I imagine that training to be an Olympian alongside a job is like completely insane. Yeah, that was really tough. So I did. I managed half of my military career with a world-class athletics career. So I used to use my leave to go away and compete. And that was tough because the first

five years I was a soldier, just career soldier. That's all I wanted to do. And then when I realized that actually my athletics was kind of taken its journey. into possibly being quite successful I could only use my leave because of my position in the military there was only three of us that actually ran the physical training for lots of soldiers so I couldn't just like go you know what I mean so I used to use my leave and combine both so that was really difficult because of course they're two different mindsets that they cross over with discipline and focus and pushing yourself to be the best but they're very different in terms of the demand. You know, I was a leader. I was responsible for soldiers' fitness, potentially

going on the front line or whatever it may be, had a responsibility. And on this side, I'm doing it purely for myself to be good at something. So marrying those two was pretty tough, but also I suppose it gave me a lot of other things that were really great when I left the army to become an Olympian. Whenever you watch the Olympics and you see these people who are like the best at what they do, the absolute best in the world. And it requires obviously an intense level of dedication and commitment. And I wonder, is it, at least for you, is that innate in you? Was that innate in you?

Was it like an inbuilt determination of like, I am going to do this? And I don't need to sort of motivate myself. Or was it like a choice every day of I've got to do, I'm going to like rededicate myself to doing this? Because I just couldn't be bothered. I just don't think I would just feel like I wouldn't have the, you know. If there's one thing I could be sure of us. I would not be in Olympia. You would not be bothered to be in Olympian.

Oh my God. I think it's, you know, sport is, it comes to very few people having sort of ability to terms of technical or physical or whatever. So there has to be something inside somebody, right? Yeah. Inate ability. But I think there's a physical aspect. And then, of course, there's a.

mental psychological aspect because you can have lots of people that are actually good at anything really in the world but you only have a few of those people in any industry that kind of absolutely go I'm going to dedicate myself to being better and being the best at it and that's a choice really

I wanted to be the best in the world I wanted to be Olympic champion because I felt from a young age that was the only thing I was really good at and secondly had a talent that I didn't want to give up on and thirdly like to be an Olympic champion it's kind of like you know it's a driver Yeah.

So it's sort of in there. It's definitely, definitely inside you. Okay. Because if you go through any setback in life, high and low and in sport, it's about injuries, so many give up. It's hard to get through an emotional turmoil or a setback or something that you just think, I'm never going to get there. It kind of like weighs down your emotions and your mindset. And so actually you've got to find another way to think,

what is it? Why do you want to keep going? And I wanted to keep going to prove to myself, first and foremost, before anyone else. Then secondly, to prove to other people that doubted me. And thirdly, it was my career and I wanted to be the best in my career. That's such an extraordinary confident. I think that's like, I think that's probably what we, I mean, physical attributes aside, like I imagine that's big for you to be self. I imagine that That's where I would, yeah, the self belief is like, and you had your P.E. teacher, Debbie, but then when you're an adult and you've got like the world being mean and half and expensive and hard. And like on a practical level, how do you, I mean, do you apply? Like, do you, do you,

do you have to get to become a living? Yeah. Yeah. But do you apply? Yeah. It's so many. How do you like you really want to go there? You're like, oh, thank you and show. I can I um no so from a practical level every sport has a criteria that you have to reach to go through any level so a school level it's schools your county schools your national schools so i was english schools champion when i say a team for example that's the highest you can go in a school level and then on a not school level it's club county area national and international level. In Olympic level, there's a type, like for sport like mine, you have to read a certain time to get an Olympic qualifying standards. So they have qualifying standards for teams or

individuals, positions in the world, rankings in the world or times in the world. And we have like a trials. So you have to get first two in the trials with the qualifying time that's set by the world championships or European championships or Olympic authorities. So you have to do that, otherwise you won't ever get to the Olympics. And then the third, in Great Britain, they have a third discretionary place. So if you're good enough to be there, you were ill or something at the time, but you're one of the world's best, they'll probably put you in. So you've got to meet high criteria.

So everyone knows it, which is actually quite good in sport, because you know the expectations. If you're not fast enough, you can have any dream in the world, but if you're not fast enough, you're not going to get there. So you have to work out how to get faster. So it's quite simple. There's actually quite an easy process to get there. Because even though the physical part of it is hard, at least in sport, it's very black and white.

It's very here, here, rules-orientated. Where in life it's not, is it? Life we can doubt ourselves, not drive, give up too easily. Who cares? Because no one's going to see it. But actually, who do you let down yourself? Whereas in sport, it's like, I want to be better. So if I want to be better, I've got to train better, I've got to be more effective at that training.

I've got to reach that standard. and I know, I've done that and I can be proud of that. But if I just think I've got a talent and I didn't put the hard work in, you live with if only and if only is too late because other people who haven't cared about you, they left you behind.

So in sport, I just wanted to keep going. I think that's a thing, me, for metaphor in life, it's like if you want to be better, then you've got to work out what is you want, you've got to set your aspirations in any industry and any career, and you've got to decide, do you want to be the one that's good,

You just want to be the one that goes, oh, I could have done it, but I didn't. And then feel the replications of that. I hate feeling if only. Winning those gold medals, that cemented your status as like best in the world. No one can ever take that away from you. That's with you for, you know, forever. If you hadn't got that, if you hadn't got that, do you think you would have made peace and come to terms with not ever having that?

I'm guessing that was your last go at the Olympics. Yeah, so I did three Olympic games. Yeah. Did my first at 26 when I was serving in the army. Came fourth. Got pipped on the line with a stress fracture I was running with. And then I got a bronze when I was 30 after only six weeks of running because I was injured so bad.

So I learned to adapt my training and run. Everyone wrote me off and everyone said, well, obviously, that's it. And I thought, well, it's not gold, is it? Bronze at that time was like gold for three weeks. It was like, oh my God, you know, everyone told me I couldn't get there. You'd have been written off, but I've done it. And then it's like, well, it's not gold. So could I have?

That's a really good question. I think my whole point was I cannot give up on it. So to the point where I physically, there was no chance I would ever get close, I had to keep going. Okay. And so when I was in Athens that year, it was my first year in 700 had injury.

Had a brilliant team around me. I'd gone through some real mental struggles the year before, but I'm still in the game. Yeah. And I thought, if I go to that Olympic Games, in the shape that I was, which was in the top three to five in the world, I've got a chance of meddling.

So if I come back from that Olympic Games with two medals of any colour, that's a good end to a career. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I still obviously had the dream. I mean, the dream was never going to go away. So the fact that everything popped into place at the time, you could call it fate,

you can call it never given up, you can call it ability talent. But for some reason, that was my year. Yeah. And I just, I risked everything to do the 800 and the 50s. because my dream was the 1,500 metres Olympic Games, but I thought there's only small moments in a sportsperson's career where you can capitalise on being the best that you've ever been,

the fastest you've ever been, the best team around you is very small moments, and that was my moment. So I just thought, well, I'll give it a go. Perfect storm. Everything came together. I do believe if I didn't win the 800, I wouldn't have won the 15. Really? I think I would put so much expectations on my performer that I would have,

overthought it. I've talked before about like a flow moment. It's like when the flow state. Flow state literally is you don't see anything else around you. You're literally just in your world. And that's what happened to me in Athens. Everyone else was like silhouettes. I didn't really notice anyone.

So I must have been in my flow state. And I think I've only ever had that in sport three times in my whole athlete's career. And that was one of them. It's so tragic. But fine. understandable but 34 is considered older in an Olympian in an athlete in a lot of careers it is like kind of end of the road which is wild in the scheme of your life I'd love to know about the sort of doing it as a and I really put heavy quotation marks when I say older

doing it at an end where people were feeling or where people were kind of writing you off because of your age you know in terms of sport everyone starts their career at different stages and has a different experience. I would say I was more experienced and more knowledgeable and more in tune with who I was as an athlete at that age and I'd done 12 years where I'd won 11 other medals. So the fact that I was the oldest in the 8 and the 15 but I beat all of those that younger than me

is that about experience, about race tactics, it's about awareness, it's about knowing more than somebody else that's coming into it where it's a big ordeal to be at a big major championships that, you know, the fright gets in them too much should question themselves. I'd been for all of that. Also in that era,

a lot of world-class athletes and middle-distance running were late 20s, early 30s. Paula Radcliffe's, Joe Peeves. All of us were around 30-ish anyway, in my era. Now it's gone down to sort of mid-to-early 20s, but that's just a generational flip.

Some athletes continue from being a junior athlete straight into seniors and don't have a job. Remember, I had a career. Like I went into the army as a soldier You know what I mean? So when I came back into international athletics I was 23 Some people winning medals at 19, 20, 21

in athletics now Keely Hodgkinson won a gold medal at 22 She won a silver at 19 I was in the army I mean with a weapon and webbing and combats and that So you can't compare to people or age It's just that you know As a strong person

But then physically I have had a huge amount of discipline around me who I was. I'd never given up on the childhood dream. There's a lot of other combinations that make you. And when people talk about age being a limiting factor, I think that's so like disparaging of everybody because no one has the same pathway,

no one has the same outlook, no one has the same starting point, finishing point, midpoint support around them. So the thing is you write off people, actually you don't know anything about. So, you know, for me, that started my career. That was the end of my athletics. But it was the start of Kelly Holmes and the journey.

You know, if you think 20 years on, I'm the strongest mindset I've ever, ever had in my life. I'm more driven than I've ever been before. I suppose I'm probably fitter than I've been in the last 20 years. And I'm more in tune, open and in the present than I've ever been. And that's because of the age I'm at now. That's such a good advert for aging. I know.

I love it. I know. Well, I like getting older. I don't like aging. Yeah. Okay. So I have a big thing about this. I am privileged to get older

because there's people in this world that are not here right now who never reached age. I am, you are or any older. But I hate ageing. I don't want to go through the muscle aches, the joints feeling awful, the wrinkles covering,

the lack of energy. And that's why I look more into doing what I'm doing now is about we don't have to age because aging is a limiting. to once you put age into it, we all think, oh my gosh, we can't do it. Oh, my God, we reach a point of no return. No, no, no. I'm like, I'm ready to go again now because I've got that in control. I'm privileged to be here and I'll make the most of my life because we're here living to this day. But if I can minimize the problems of aging, that's what I'm about now. There's much more of a conversation about women, quote unquote, aging. And more and more, we're seeing people trying to break. break the narrative and change the perception that we all have about getting older. That's why a big part I believe of why you're involved with ancient and brave.

With what you've learned from the brand, with what you take with the brand, what would you say has been the biggest thing you've learned about like prioritising wellness within yourself? Well, I suppose I, you know, I still believe that, you know, there's a big link between physical and mental awareness, aptitude, kind of a connection. between who we are with our bodies I suppose and how we use them and then how that affects us in terms of our energy or outlook and whatever and so for me it's kind of it's changed from being I push myself to the

nth degree to get a result to feel good and to literally damage my body to I want to move because I want to stay energetic you know I want to stay in the present alert but still have goals and energy to do things. So I've had to sort of flip what being healthy or fit kind of means to me. And that's sort of inside the body as well as outside. So I always go on the whole thing of, you know, I do still. I don't want to get wrinkles. I don't want to do this.

I want to minimize how I'm looking at all of that sort of thing. And then I think also, but that is important to me. But equally, I can't keep doing. what I do, push myself to keep fit, if I'm aching all the time, if my joints are just causing me, hell, basically, because that gets me down. Because I am someone that likes to keep moving. So I've changed the word to being, doing sport to keeping moving.

I think people should move their bodies. And you need support to do that. You know, because people put an age on it and go, oh my God, you've got to this age and, you know, there's only so many more things you can do. And I'm like, holden, so if I'm in this age, I am now, how is it that if I take part in something, I'm still being 20 year olds, 30 year old, 40 year old. There's an attitude there, but there's also the fact that I'm maintaining my ability from my body to still perform.

But I have to have support with that because I'll break down. I put down as an athlete, injuries, but now I break down because, yes, of the aging process of our bodies. You know, ligaments, tendons, muscle, waisties. and that will just all affect everything about us our ability to keep moving we start getting back aches we start thinking oh I can't do it and then what's happened when you hurt

you don't then keep fit because all you're thinking is what's hurting you would definitely beat both of us in a running race there's no doubt but it's not about an attitude you know what I think there's a big like yeah no big evidence there

to show that it's not aged that's the problem it's the attitude Em has done the marathons and an ultra marathon there you go So I haven't done one of them. Not quickly, though. Yeah, but you still did it.

But it's still a mindset to do it. Yeah. You know, I haven't done them ultra. No, it's madness. Yeah. I agree. It's funny, isn't it? Like one man's trash or whatever the experience is.

My brother challenges me to stop doing it now. Now we're like 30, but like he challenges me to running this every year over like 100 meters. Oh, my nieces and nephews challenge me all the time and they're not going to win. I don't care. Oh, great. Love that. At the bottom week, like one, two. No.

But they're now aged between five and 23. They still don't beat me. And even if when they were one, two, three, four, my siblings would go, let them win. No. No. They can win when they're old enough to win and I'm not capable of winning. Up until then, they need to learn to fail or lose because it will make them either tough,

make them tough or just be determined to anyone. It brings out of them. If you're going to lose to anyone in Dame Kelly Homes, I'll do that's fine. I'll take it. Silver, silver, you know. I'll take it. Oh dear. You talked about needing the support.

Are you referring to there, the collagen? Well, yeah, now because, of course, you know, when I was an athlete, it was really vital. I knew exactly what was going in my body. And I could never risk taking a product that was, again, what was allowed for sport. So it was very, very clear. Like, I would never put anything in my body that I didn't know what was in it

because, of course, you have the performance-hancing issues and people taking substances that they shouldn't take. So it was very clear guidelines. And I always thought, I have to know exactly what's in my body. So I had that hangover even leaving sport because if I do something, I still want to know what's in my body. You know, I had a Benadry once, which was like for a hay fever and God knows what

and I was conked out like I was literally thought I was dying and I thought, oh my God, like I literally can't be anything in my body because also never had anything. So anyway, I got to a point in life where it was probably around, what am I saying now, three, well, time goes quick, doesn't it? Say three years ago. And I was at home, it was sort of that hangover from lockdown

and all of that lot, so three, four years ago. There was a hangover from there. And I remember suddenly thinking, oh my God, my body just aches. It like hurts, but hurt to the point that I'd go in the gym and it's one morning, I went to do a normal workout session and I couldn't even do a press up. Now I am a person that can do quite a lot and that's just because it's my innate ability. But for me not to do a press up and my wrist to actually, I thought I was like breaking.

I thought I'd had a fracture or something. It was so painful. And I suppose because I was sort of in tune with my body a lot, I could then feel what it wasn't right. Because I know if I've done a workout, what's aching, what's doms, what's, you know what I mean? I just know that. And yeah. But I thought something's not right.

It was also not a time that we were really open with menopause or perimenopause or anything. You know, conversation was still quite new. And I was in denial of age, which I am, denial of the number. number in the age. I'm 39 plus, but the pluses are getting far too many now. It's 39 plus 15 now. But about then, I don't go, Jesus, the maths weren't good at school. And anyway, so I just thought, people were saying, you know, maybe you should just get blood tests, maybe you should have a look into it. And I was sort of, anyway, I did have a conversation with a doctor, and they said, well, I know that you might not want to hear this, but maybe you're having hormonal changes.

They put it very politely, and I was like, okay, well, what does that mean? And they started to tell me the things that could happen, your body, body aches, insomnia, energy levels, depression, and all the things. And I was thinking, I thought it was just hot flushes because you used to have a laugh with my mates. And they were saying, I said, what does that mean? They said, well, you could be in the perimenopause phase. So I said, what's that mean? They said, obviously, your hormones are all changing, blah, blah, blah, blah.

You should go on something like HRT. And I was like, no, I'm not going on nothing. Don't put me on, I don't want anything. And they said, but look, it's just to balance you out because, and they try to explain, I still don't get it all, but lack of estrogen, pedestrian, and all of this sort of stuff. Anyway, I said, okay, I'll try it out. So they sent me what I was meant to take, and I was just getting so confused. Like, how many pumps do you have of what, when do you take the tablet inside, that side, whatever,

how many break, I had no idea, I was just losing it. So I didn't write it down because I'm not used to taking stuff. So I was getting a little bit fed up with it because my period would be on, then they've stopped, then they went and whatever. But I was hearing that there was more research in obviously HRT and actually it's very positive for a lot of women. But I thought, is there another way that I could do it? Because I was all about, if I can exercise effectively once the pains don't help, maybe that's a good way, especially for home and so weight training became a thing that I started doing more. Could I find other products? So then just by chance, I think I had seen somebody else talk about collagen and a brand called Ancient and Braids.

And I just happened to be in London and Aiton and Braille had this Pothpup store. And so I walked it in and I said, oh, hi, hi, hi, hi, hi, I was just chatting, chatting. And I really liked the brand because it was like ancient, which I think of Athens, Olympic Games, Brave because I think, oh, that's about empowerment. And I like the pretty packaging because I thought, look quality. And I like things that look quality. So I said, oh, I said, what did it do? They were talking about true collagen at the time. And I said, well, what does it do? So they're trying to explain to me that, you know, collagen used to be about face and hair and now. So actually, it's also about bone density, ligaments, tendons. And I was like, okay. So I started taking that. And what I

did, and I came off my HRT because I just didn't like the fact that I was probably messing up my body with it. It's not to say that I shouldn't be on it, but I just thought, can I try something else? So I started taking collagen. And I didn't know any more from the brand at all. I just sort of took it and it started working. It was alleviating the pains and my thing was I want to still keep fit. I want to feel healthy. I want to keep strong and I don't want to be in pain and my pain started alleviating. And so now I've been hooked on it, been taking three years religiously and then I got to know the brands a bit more and I love the fact that it's a woman-led brand you know they are ethically sourced have such a great range and they really want to make a

difference to people and so for me it's i mean that connecting but it was mainly because i got a result wasn't because a brand i'm not into a name of a brand and just take it because you know i was like it made a difference so okay i'm going to stick with you and that's where we are now with what you experienced yeah that going to the doctors then telling you that you were in perry yes menopause I didn't understand what that was I had no idea

I don't really understand I actually did see an article the day about how that's a made-up turn I always imagine it's like Diet Coke like to Coke well I didn't understand the word because when I was younger

my mum we'd always talk about menopause and you look at your mother and always think they're really old I mean my mum was only 17 years older than me so you know

when her she's going through it and had a hysterectomy and had an awful sort of prose so I'm just thinking, oh, you're old. But no one thought about perimenopause. So I still had no knowledge of this term at all until I started then to look into it because now I'm interested.

I'm interested in what affects to women has it been over the years. And if you think about the fact there was no knowledge, no discussion, so many women's relationships have broke down, had mental health problems, have had severe health problems because it wasn't,

recognized it wasn't targeted there's so many symptoms if you actually look into it a lot of women might be relieved or feel like their life's not over if they understood it a bit more so I think the conversation is brilliant because the more we as women can keep talking about that actually it starts late hormone changes can start in some late 30s that makes you realize that actually when you're going through a hard time it might not just because of some other it could be because the hormone changes at the time when I was going through these body pains I was going through a lot of mental health problems as well so I don't know now what was tied up with mental health problems that things that were personal which I know I had and also their hormone changes

and the fact that I was aching and can't do the sport that I do that makes me feel good it makes somebody kind of blow up and that's where I was until I got it in control although like you say in the last couple of years there is so much more conversation about the menopause with brands like ancient and brave you've got women-led brands kind of making changes in the space but it's like there's been nothing for this whole time

except like oh mommy's gone mad and that's it and it's just like oh she's all sweaty and she's like across with everyone and she's insane and it's like actually when you look at it like that's deranged because you've done so much as my mum did her first Iron Man at 50 years old

like people change their lives all the time at any age. But it's still like the sort of like quiet thing that we've got. It's like, oh, they're written off. It's like, yeah. I would like to see more positive conversation. Because I do believe actually, even though women will go through a lot of struggles physically and mentally, I do think there's also a flip in a switch where actually you

start owning yourself. You start, once you can get those bits in control and you know you're getting supported and you know there's things that can support you, you actually end up getting this sense of okay i know who i am now on purpose and you actually then can transform your life dramatically into being a stronger person than women owning who you are and once you get a lot of the hormone symptoms in check you become stronger like i actually feel stronger than i ever did in my 40s without a doubt and that's with getting everything can check but also knowing now i can support some of the things that are happening. It's just about education and awareness,

isn't it? It's like if you've got something you're struggling with, once you get support, you can deal with it. It doesn't matter if that's mental or physical. So for me, I think, if we could flip it now to, yes, the conversation has to be had because so many people are still confused by what it is, how it is, and don't know when they're going to get it, don't know if they've already got it, don't know whatever, but at least you're aware of it now so you can get support which no one did before start taking things that actually minimize all of those symptoms so actually think okay I'm all right now because then you're settled a bit and you haven't got all of the unknowns and then actually you go I'm in a clearer head space now

like I absolutely feel more empowered stronger feel ready to take on anything feel like energize whatever at the age I am now whereas before I would have been dreading getting to this age now I'm like right let's go one because I want to make the most of whatever life I've got left but two because I feel like I can do things to support myself and not I'm not left to my own devices

so you know I'll take supplements now which I didn't take before purely because I believe in them or their efficacy source I know they're safe I know they're making a difference so that's what I do which ones do you take because I would like to copy and I'd like to feel

and look the same as you do Well, the first one I started to take was this true collagen. Okay. I take the bovine, but I am a vegetarian, but it's from grass-fed cows. But it's not really, because it doesn't really taste anything anyway. So I didn't have a hangover of taking it because actually it's what made a difference to me first. But there is a vegan option and a marine option. So there is options for people to take the vegan one.

Do you? You have the vegan one. So I take this and, you know, it's 89% pure protein. So that was the main one. I took and then I've just come back from Machu Picchu which was pretty tough can you tell us about it's finished with the products but then tell us about much picture because I don't want to go but I want to hear about why I don't want to go because what I love about ancient and brave even though collagen was the first thing that I knew about them they've been able to bring out this huge range

of products that kind of suit everybody and high. Hydration is obviously a big thing, one in sport, fitness. I mean, you've done an ultra. I live on their hydrate. That's how I found the brand is the hydration one. And going to Machu Picchu, where it was really hot during the day, cold at night. I got to know about the hydration product. So we took that with us.

True Creatine Plus was a recent addition to their products. Now, in the past, creatine in my world, as a sports person, was always used for bodybuilders. and sprinters and we used to talk about whether I should take creating but being a middle distance runner they didn't need to bulk out I was like oh no but now of course it's also a protein source and absolutely supports muscle because as a woman especially and well as you get older we decline in our muscle density strength volume so I've started taking that which is why I feel like I can do anything because I feel like I'm starting to become like I do all these Spartans I'm like madwoman climbing ropes jumping over things I'm thinking geez and then I take

magnesium so I take magnesium for a couple of reasons one because I think it's a great product to take through people with menopause or symptoms but also for fitness as well because it helps with the muscle relaxation I take it before I go to bed sometimes get those tired muscles you know, like, your legs are real kind of like, so you know when you just feel like you want to sleep, but your legs are all busy. Yeah, restless leg. Yeah, restless leg, that's it.

I get that. So I take, yeah, so I take magnesium before I go to bed. I've probably become like this, I don't know, I've opened my cupboard and it's like ancient and brave. It's sat everywhere. And everyone's like, do you believe in the product? I'm like, look, this is helping me no end. But it's about consistency.

I think anyone, you take a product, you, I can talk about it here and people, oh, try it out and think there should be results on day one and two. It's never going to happen with anything. What you've got to do is remember these things are to support you over a period of time and the more you take, the more you'll feel supported. So I'm a big advocate for consistency. That's what I'm bad at. That's what I'm bad at.

It is really important. So they also bought a capsule collagen, because this is. is a powder form, which is what I knew ancient and brave for, but it's called Noble collagen and it's a targeted joint collagen. So I've been taking that. I don't get any body pains whatsoever anymore at all. That'd be nice. I know, right? I imagine not having any. Can't relate. What sets Ancient and Brave apart isn't just their exceptional range of products, it's their unwavering commitment to sustainability. and Brave is one of the highest scoring B Corps worldwide and is proud to be a member of 1% for the planet,

a global organisation that certifies businesses who commit to giving back. This means that 1% of Ancient and Brave sales are directly invested into environmental causes that work to protect and preserve our planet. So, every time you choose Ancient and Brave, you're making more than just a decision to support your own health and well-being. You're actively contributing to a healthier, more sustainable world, whether it's supporting reforestation projects, protecting endangered wildlife or cleaning up our oceans, your purchase plays a part in making a real difference. Wellness, after all, is not just about looking after

ourselves, but also about caring for the world around us. That's the philosophy at the heart of ancient and brave. To learn more about their commitment to sustainability and how you can contribute, visit 1% for theplanet.org. It's a powerful reminder that our choices, no matter how small, can have a significant impact. I want to ask about mental health and the mental health side of things because there is a big emphasis on getting older and staying fit, staying active and looking after your joints and your muscles. And I guess there is less conversation around the mental health, self-care side of things.

For you, is that as important as a physical? Yeah, absolutely. I think without having sort of this stability. your mind, you will neglect everything else that is actually important to you or a need. So I think, yeah, first and foremost, I think your mental health, it's something that we all should be more aware of how we feel and what situations in life give us the highs or the lows. I mean, I've been talking about mental health since 2005

because I've had a multitude of breakdowns, diagnosed, depression, stress, self-harmour, lots of things. And as women, in particular, and I know anyone can listen to this conversation, actually men are the ones that need to hear it more. But it's about communicating effectively and letting people know that you need support and not feeling like that's an ashamed thing,

feeling like actually it's okay to not be okay, which is the main strap line of mental health, awareness anyway, and to be transparent and open because, you know, people used to say, oh, you're a double-german, da-da-da-da-da-da-da, an ex-and-veteran, and a veteran, you know, ex-military personnel, oh, you're really strong, whatever. And I said, yeah, but I'm also human. And I also think that having bad mental health doesn't define you. It's just part of who you are. And as long as you can get support with it, then it doesn't stop you doing anything. But it's just a conversation that everyone should have. And when you come back to

menopause, a lot of women have suffered with their mental health because of the menopausal, hormonal things that they have been out of control of because they didn't have the conversation that it was an issue. And then that perpetuates even more mental health problems because now you're out of control. You don't know who you are. You don't see yourself. It's breaking up relationships. It's making you feel less energetic, less focus, less worthy. And actually, if you can get those things in check, you come back to being, oh, I'm in, I'm okay. What's that scary for you to be open about your mental health at a time? where it was like kind of before it was, you know,

it's the mainstream conversation that it is now, but also because you were all those other things. So I started talking about having a breakdown when I was 35, so a year after I won my two gold medals, and I had a breakdown when I was 33 when I was a world-class athlete, but I couldn't talk to anybody about it because no one talked about mental health awareness at all. And as you say, when you're put on a pedestal

and you're high up and everyone looks at you like, strong and whatever, firstly there was no conversation so who do i go to like who do i trust who can i open up to that's not going to now diminish my ability to be good and stop me doing what i love because they think i've got to protect me so i had to keep that on my own i also didn't want to burden my family my friends which i now know we should actually open up to them but um yeah i had a really bad, bad, bad time where I basically didn't want to be here

and then yet I had an ambition to be the best athlete in the world and to be Olympic champions so by having ambition or having anything close to you is worth what's, why it's worth holding on doesn't matter what it is in your life we all have something worth holding on for and I just

focused on the one thing that was always driving me so when I started writing about my autobiography nobody knew nobody knew I was going to write it in a book nobody my family friends didn't know I was going to talk about it. Even my teammates didn't even know anything was happening to me. The reason I chose to write about it is because I didn't want to have be put on this pedestal about being invincible. I felt that it was stronger, more powerful to say

I've struggled, but look, I still achieved. So I flipped it around. Now at the time, and I can't say who, but somebody in the radio world kind of diminished my achievements by opening up and saying, oh, we thought she was so strong and now, look, she's not that weak. So what did that do? Made me speak about it more. Because I just thought, hold on, you're the type of people that need to be kind of closed down because actually what you'll do is stop people ever get in support. So I started speaking more about it.

And now it's a platform that I use worldwide and I'm very open and honest about my whole mental health journey right up until three years ago when I contemplating, do I live or not because I was having too much going on in my life. and I don't care because I'm not shamed and I think it's a better way of putting it out there that we're all human we're all valid, we're all going to struggle at some time but actually you can still get through it

you know it was one of those things it was tough because no one spoke about it now it is a subject that we do speak a lot more openly about so many people have come forward and this struggle and be more transparent and actually it gives other people hope you said you were focused on you know at 33 you felt like you didn't even know

if you wanted to be here anymore, but you were focused on this Olympics, you had this ambition. Did you experience a decline in your mental health after the Olympics when that, I mean, then that focus is gone, right? It's lost. Yeah, really did.

So at the time when I was going through that dramatic time, I was getting ready for world championships and no one knew what I was going through, but I won a silver medal at those world championships at the depths of despair, which almost kind of made me strong because I thought, if I can do this, have a feeling that I am,

Maybe I'm all right. Maybe I'm quite good. I can do this. So what happened was is after the Olympics, of course, part of anyone's life journey is their identity as well. You know, you've been talking about being mothers and that. My mum used to say, I haven't got a name now. Like I'm Dame Kelly Ome's mum.

My sister's going, oh, I don't got my name. It's always about the kids. I'm like, it was so funny. So in sport, your identity is, focused on that achievement. You're an Olympian, you're Olympic champion, you're a world medalist, you're this. And around that is all the support.

Your physio, you're nutritionist, your training partners. You need them all the time, you know, to help you get where you want to get. And you get to the end of career, I decided to retire a year later. So when I was 35, at the end of the year, when I was 35, and then suddenly it's like, who am I?

Like I lost all my identity, all my purpose, or my vision or my drive because I was thinking I don't know what I've got left because all I'd thought about since I was 14 was to be in the Army as a physical train instructor and to be Olympic champion

that's what I was going to do and I'm lucky in a way that I had those real innate strong strong passions and dreams when I was younger but equally achieved them but I had no idea what I was going to do next

and then what happened was is I yeah I had a real mental health decline depression again is when I seek medical help and then I'd sort of restart to rebuild and to think okay well I've got transferable skills there's other things that I haven't just run around a track you know I've had to communicate effectively with a team of people so I was a leader in the army had strategy structure I had a format I had other things and skills that may be I sort of pushed aside that I didn't know because it's easy just to run So I had to reform who that was and then that's where I came up with all the other things that I've done since through just thinking, okay, well, it's not the end. I'm like 35. I'm not dead and married yet. You know what I mean? I'm not prepared to be. So I've got to find a way. I've still got a career of life. You know what I mean?

We will let you go. But before we do, can we hear about Machu Picchu? Because that sounds horrible. I thought he was like awesome I'm not sure well I don't know I'm not sure well I don't know I might be convinced because I feel like after this I want to go for a 1,500 metre run but I might wait no no yeah

right right right that's my excuse no I tell you what do it now and then when I'm rubbish it's like I'm pregnant what do you want for me but you did just climb Machu Picchi which is like horrible because I haven't got another adjective horrible is where I'm landing

How was it? It was incredible. So basically we did it for my charity, Dame Kelly Homes Trust, which works of disadvantaged young people, for my area as a deprivation. A charity I set up 16 years ago when I've decided in what skills have I got. And I always remember my PE teacher telling me I could be good, which made me realise that one person can always make a difference

to someone's life, hence why I started a charity. It also did it to help transition sports people into new careers that feel a sense of loss and purpose. us. So all of our programs are basically run by world-class athletes who we train up as youth workers and mental health advocates and, yeah, basically mentors. So we were fundraising. It's 16 years old. I mean, my 20-year commemorating of Athens, they knew I'd always wanted to go to Machi Picchi. It was like one of those tick-less, sort of thing. And they said, would you like to do it in your 20-year anniversary? I was like, yeah. You know, but I was so damn busy.

that I didn't really think about it. You know, suddenly I'm on a plane to Peru and then thinking, I should do. You know, I've sort of packed the night before thinking, you know, I've got to be ready, right, go to go everything. And 20 people had signed up to come, age 19 to 70. Wow. Wow.

So you can't really process what it actually means to go to high altitude, then to trek for five days with a bunch of strangers who are all different levels, abilities, never been there, all kind of high with want to do it. Got a great outcome, you know, matchy peach, it's something you Google on an eye and you just see this lost city sitting there, but when you get there, you just can't comprehend it, how this actually exists. But the journey to get there was really tough, but it was really, so the interesting thing was it, was the journey, not just the end point.

So you've got these random people, different age groups, all going on a real spiritual experience because all you've seen it on a picture and you go and it's so barren up in the middle no there's only us we went off the beating track we didn't do a tourist track so for five days there's 20 of us surviving together camping together learning from each other and going up to the top of our highest point was like 4,550 metres doing this spiritual ritual with cocoa leaves apparently like a fucking cocaine thing, derivative, where I'm going to chew these,

no. And then you chew them because you're dying like, what's it going to give me? But it's not a drug apparently, it's not a drug, well. And then when you're up there and they're doing this spiritual awakening to the gods and you just see mountain,

you just think, I'm in a different world. And you can't really process it because it's hard. There's hard, hard, hard graft. One day you feel good. next day you'll feel really bad you can't carry on but when we got to the end like all of us got there all of us got there together and it was the most incredible experience like I don't think any of us have still processed what we went through because you can't really can't do it when you're

there it was amazing you stop talking about it because it's making me want to do it and I have to keep reminding myself that you struggled so I'm like no no you know 70 year old guys that were friends from school like all got there one of them was having oxygen on the mountain because he's going so white. But he was so determined that he's going to do it and he got there and it was, yeah. No, it's one of those things. It is a bucketless thing that you could say, oh, I'd like to do it and talk about. But I'm so pleased I've done it.

I've like got this memory in my head now that any time when I'm feeling like stress or something, I kind of switch into this calmness of at that time I breathed. You know what I mean? I just sat there. Zen moment. So I keep that in there. It was worth that for that moment. I do it for that vision.

Would you think? For a bit of peace in my head, I'd do anything. Exactly. Dame Cuddy Holmes. Thank you. I'm going to let you go into one quick question about becoming a dame. Just because I don't think I'm ever going to meet anyone else. Was the sword sharp when they do your shoulders?

They don't give the sword to women. Don't get me. going do you want to hear my story about that more than anything i'm furious for you they don't do the sword for heaven what they don't do the cross swords so what do they do so we go to buckingham palace yeah there's me as a dame there's a few sirs and there's a few military high-ranking officers so we go to a separate room for anyone getting like mbbcb so they're calling us up one by one this general and i saw the couple of guys kneel down practicing what happens in front of the queen he says you're coming from here you kneel down

the queen does a sword you step back you about whatever and I thought they call her dame kelly Holmes so I go up and I'm already thinking off I go to sit down he went oh no no no no Dame Kelly Holmes um women don't kneel down in front of the queen I was like what I was literally lost it in this moment they went oh no that wouldn't be etiquette I was like what do you mean he said no no no you come up you get called you're courtesy you come You walk, you just lean forward, she puts all your things on you, then you step back, if you have a hand, you offer a hand, then you step back, three steps, curts in, and you go.

I think, no, so I said to this guy, I'm sorry, but I've been waiting for the swords the whole time, I says, I'm going to have to kneel down. He was like, no, no, no, no, he was going to know. So I had this poor guy on, this general, his old guy. Buckingham Palace, like massive, Buckingham Palace, you know, the ceiling, the doors, This was a high room. The doors are as high as this, even higher than here. You know, and you're going down the corridors.

And this guy said, look, Dame Kelly, I really need to just explain to you that you're not allowed to know down. I said, well, I'm going to know, I had all these army guys. Now, given I'm ex-military, and we love a banter, they were playing along with me, they're going, well, I think, you know, Dame Kelly should do it. You know what I mean? So anyway, this guy's hyperventilating. We're standing outside and, you know, one by one, you're called to this big wooden doors.

And you've seen the queen coming with the gherkers and the bee feathers from the other side and they're standing there and I kept looking at the sky and I went to what I'm going to do it and he went to get in Kelly and watch me because I got called my name and was like anyway of course I didn't

because I thought God I get my hair topped off or something you know what I'm so disappointed yeah least I get the sword exactly I couldn't believe it I thought I need to change that equal rights and all that yeah gender pay gap gender pain gap exactly

gender deem gap yeah exactly equality and equity I know what the sword I want the medal, that's the quality, I want the swords, that's equity. Yeah. But anyway, yes, so bit perturred by that. However, I'm grateful for the honour. Yeah.

Yeah, so cool. I think they should invite you back when they changed the law. When they changed it, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly at your moment. A cursory sword. Well, we're very grateful for your Damehood presence. We're going to feed off of this for a long time. What do you like to meal here we can do?

We can find a little sword. We can do it with a mic. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for coming in. And obviously thank you to Ancient and Bray for facilitating this and for sponsoring the podcast this episode. It's been so cool to speak to you. Thank you.

So cool. Thank you so much, Kelly. Thanks. Should I delete that is part of the ACAS creator network.