Should I Delete That? - TMI with Laura Henshaw

Episode Date: December 11, 2023

This week on the pod, the girls are joined by co-founder and CEO of Kic, Laura Henshaw! Laura was over from Australia on a whistle-stop visit and tried to book in a coffee with Em, who convinced her to come on the pod instead. With no real plan, this episode turned out to be a chaotic, fun-filled ride all about hygeine, puddles and diet culture.You can follow Laura on Instagram @laura.henshaw and her work with Kic over at @kic.appFollow us on Instagram @shouldideletethatEmail us at [e-mail] by Daisy GrantMusic by Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I had to tell everyone, like, if you walk past me that day in the podcast studio, you knew that I weed myself in that, like, it was honestly the perfect, it wasn't like Laura sat in a bit of water. It was like, Laura had a leakage. She had a leakage. Hello, and welcome back to Should I Delete That, and while it's light. And I'm M. Glockson. We missed you last week out. I know. Thank you for holding the fort. It did really make me laugh. You are disgusting. Oh, no, you listened. I'm so counting on you not. I listened.

It took its toll, though, the weight of that responsibility, because I have come down with the illest, I'm the sickest I've ever been. And I think it was all the pressure. I think it was the flies. Oh, God, no, no, because flies are fuckers. They give you all sorts. Exactly. Ear infections and flus Oh, mate, you don't sound good I don't even know what's wrong

I don't really know where to start explaining it It's just all very bad That is my bad I know it's Christmas I know this is our cheeriest episode of the year Because it was just silly But I'm just gonna ruin the beginning of it But oh actually you know what

I didn't even want to talk about it My bad, no, I'll just do it quick at me My bad is I'm so very very ill I went on the flight my face because of my stupid operation felt like it was going to fall off

and I cried Alex I held onto the seat in front of me and I screamed cried and there was a woman across the aisle who I know I know wanted to hate me so much because I walked on with the baby and you're just very aware

when you walk on with the baby and people are giving me the eyes the death eyes and she couldn't even she cracked even she couldn't hate me because I think she thought I was so close to dying

that it would be ungodly not to her. ask if I was alright so I won her round um yeah oh it was like 50 times more well behaved than me very embarrassing that sounds really fucking raw it was the most pain i genuinely i was i was weighing up i was like what hurt more that or childbirth it was a tough call oh you poor thing i hope you get better that's shit i do too well otherwise this is it this is it but i don't even want to talk about that because i know what your awkward slash bad is and i Have to hear it.

My, okay, so I've not got a good today. I feel like we're on the same kind of plane today. That's the spirit. Okay. I've got two awkwards and a bad. Yes. Okay, let's go. Okay, my bad is that I've had to have my rings cut off

because I have, I have swollen up like the Michelin Man. Things are not good. Things are not good in my body. Like, I don't recognize my face anymore. Like, especially when I wake up. And I look in the mirror and I'm like, oh my god it just doesn't look like my face anymore and my hands and my feet and my ankles and i had to get my i had to get my rain cut off and i documented it all on instagram and i must

have had oh my god like it is wonderful to have a community right isn't it on instagram it's amazing like you can feel instantly like less alone with anything you get often you get great advice but like sometimes it can be a little bit of a lot and you get a lot of advice all at once and I had everyone telling me do this dental floss trick to get your ring off it will work 100%. There is no way it won't work

was what I was hearing over and over again so with those words in my head and you know I take everything quite literally I was just trying and trying and trying and my poor finger went completely purple and I was like I am going to lose my finger and I do I have heard of a girl that had to have a finger amputated Did you hear that from your loving community by the choice?

Of course I did. Because of this kind of situation. That is exactly not what you tell somebody. I know. Yeah, okay. I know. Yeah, okay. People being like go to A&A right now, straight away.

And I was like, I really can't. It's 10 o'clock at night. I can't. I just can't do it. I'm too tired. Oh, fuck the finger. No, no. I was just looked at Dave.

I was like, I can't do it to him either. We can't do it. so I went to the jewelers in the morning and he was like let's have a look at it let's just see what we can do when he looked at it and he was like yeah I was go and get the cutters it was like the whole finger

was just like bulging over the ring and it took him like 10 minutes to cut it off it was awful was it awful his hands were shaking it was scary I was like he's gonna get my skin because there's like no room to get the pliers underneath the ring

and my mum was watching and she was like I don't know, she looked like really emotional. Is like, you're okay? And she's just like, I'm just scared. Hold it together, Norma. I'm just scared. I'm just scared.

Underneath the soul. So, yeah, I am now ringerless, ringgeless. Ring fingerless. Oh, ow. What, no deal. I know. I know. I know.

I can't even really wear socks anymore because it's cutting into my ankle so bad. Like, thank God I don't wear anklets. That would have been another thing. Thank God, for a couple of reasons. All, like, toe rings. You couldn't even reach your toes to try and get them off. Literally. I tried to paint my toenails this morning.

I ended up crying. It's not working. I can't do it. Oh, you're at a good stage of pregnancy. Oh, and I just... The joys. Not long. You got this.

Not long. Not long. Have you got any organ to me? No, it's really funny. Yes, obviously I do. But that just reminded me the amount of people in my DM is telling me not to fly home

because my ears hurt. I was like, the guys... Of course I'm going to fly home. This is terrible advice. Like, capital letters, like, do not fly. I was like, ah, I can't stay in Tenerife. M just lives in Tenerife now. I've got to Instagram told me not to.

For fear of the flight, perhaps. Like M lives now in Tennessee. Honestly, I did. People get me like, be careful when you fly. I was like, what do you want to do? Go and talk to the pilot and be like, hey, buddy, do you mind just doing it a little bit lower? Do you mind if you just drive it home? Just be careful.

Anyway, no, awkward. But dead fast. Yeah, dead fast. Obviously awkward out. I went to the fucking water park, didn't I? Oh, my God. I mean, I said to you, like I was jealous of the whole trip apart from. from that. I was not jealous of that. I'm going to be

honest, it was awful. Was it awful? Yeah, I should have ditched the kid. I should have gone alone. So I didn't go on any in the big rides because I took my baby. And obviously my baby can't go on the big rides. So I did the only thing. And I'm a good wife, right? Like, because I know, I'm ill. I'm needy. And it was before

I got ill, but I think I sensed something was coming. So I said to Alex and hugs, our friend. I was like, you go. You guys go. We'll stay with the babies. We'll stay. We'll be good doting wives. You go have fun on the slides. And they did, they had a blast. And we went on the Lazy River, because it was the only thing you could take the babies on. Yeah. I'm definitely going to get a Veruca, by the way. I have

no doubt in my mind. I know. I know. And they were selling Veruca shoes, you know, like, and I was like, ah, what's it worth to me? It wasn't worth that. So, I've never been on the Lazy River with a baby on your lap? Because we had three babies in that thing. We had me and the front with Arlo on me, sooth in the middle with Delilah on her, and then Huggy, her boyfriend on the back with Innie, their son, on him.

You are not agile when you are flat on your back with a baby on your lap and we were so long and most people were like individually like going down the lazy river like in their little thing, he's like, woo, couples, fun, fun, fun,

we were like beavers. We've just made dams at every single turn except we were the dams. So every time someone crashed into me we were always facing the wrong way and it's incredibly intimate when somebody dinghy bumps into you because your feet touch

and your legs are out yeah oh yes so if I didn't have a veruca from the floor I will have done from all the foot high fives I was accidentally giving off it was like playing with dodgums it was awful and then as if that wasn't enough

getting out getting out was horrible and it was cold and Holly was like why are we doing this I was like good question babes anyway it was a whole thing And then when we got out and I didn't laugh because I got I hold my shit together But iny lovely little lovely little baby is two years old who was standing there

And this woman picked up her Inflatable thing and spun around with it And it caught it and it sent him bloody flying This is a disaster He was so brave He was so good Poor little guy I know Anyway so that was obviously awkward

The whole thing was just awkward But my good my good is that we went to Tenerife with our friends boyfriend and girlfriend, Sophie and hugs. And on the second night you got down on Wondie. No!

And he proposed. And she said yes. Oh my God. Did you witness it? I was videoing it. That's so cool. I know. I'll send you the video. It was lovely. Oh my God, that's so nice. I know. Did you know who's going to do it? Yes. I knew

for when we were there Alex knew from way before which was why we were going I didn't know that and then I knew when we got there and then it was like we had to take the video like don't fuck it up it's in front of the sunset I'm gonna love that for the rest of their lives I was like cool cool no pressure anyway mostly nailed it so it was amazing it was so beautiful so look at that did have a good well done for taking the video thank you so much yeah make it all about me

um okay you said you had two bads two awkwards in a bad and we've only had one awkward so please yes okay awkward number one i was invited to a ticot party oh no okay tictock end of year celebration two thousand and twenty three they invited me i can't believe they invited you and you didn't take me a while back right well this is a while back i was like i probably won't be up for it by them but i'll just it said rsvp here so i just you know you just tick like yes so i rsvped because I thought oh that's cool

you know TikTok party yeah they obviously like think I'm cool enough to go to a TikTok party great I get an email

on Monday we're reaching out regarding your RSVP for our end of year 2023 event due to huge demand we regret to inform you that we won't be able

to accommodate your attendance at this event we're truly sorry for any disappointment this has caused you and maybe We will have the opportunity to welcome you at future events. If you think this might be a mistake, please let us know.

Thank you so much for your understanding and your interest in our party. Oh my God. You are uninvited. I have never been uninvited to a party that I've been invited to before. Alex, that's the most brutal thing I've ever read. I wonder how many people you sent it to? And I wonder what the criteria was. Do you think it's because you're just not TikTok famous enough?

I'm guessing so. Idiots. Don't move. Don't they know? Don't they know that our podcast is blowing up on TikTok? We've got at least 200 followers. Also, they invite me in the first place? Fuck, I didn't even want to go. And then I'm inviting.

Well, no, I mean, like, fuck them. I should have replied and said I didn't want to go anyway. Alex, that's absolutely hilarious. Isn't it? That's the most brutal thing I've ever heard in my life. We regret to inform you. Like, sorry for any disappointment we've caused you. that's devastating this industry is fucking brutal isn't it how embarrassing so that was one awkward

another awkward is i'm doing an nCT class i'm doing it late decided late my midwife persuaded me to do it so i'm doing an ncti thing mainly because i need to know about babies the basics and i they sent an email out being like join this WhatsApp group where all of your friends will be on there and I joined it and for about a day it was just me and the admin no one else joined for a really long time Dave was like don't

I kept showing him he's like don't stop it stop showing me I can't cope I can't bear it it's too embarrassing it's just me and the admin in this group just like hanging out

I was like I want to exit but I can't because you'll see that I've joined and then exited and then come back in and it's just awful that's all oh I

I've nothing. I've nothing for you. You're a horribly awkward person. I really am. I really am. So yeah, that was my... We'll be back with Goods next week. Well, you had a good, but I'll be back with Good. Yeah, I had a great good. I wasn't mine. I just stole it from someone else. I had a nice time, though, on holiday. Before I got to witness it. It did look really nice. It was so lush. You're going to lose your mind because their kids were there. Like, how beaut's that? Watching. That is so nice. I know. It's mad. Like, I can ride off the goods of other people for, like... Like, I think this is, I'm not even going to say it, I was going to say I'm such an empath, but then that means really put me off that. You're not allowed to say that anymore. No, I like people being, I just, I like people being really happy. It just makes me really happy. Good, nice. I could just sit there and watch people be happy forever.

Do you know what I mean? I feel like there's a program for that. I don't know. Mind you, there isn't a program for that because most people tend to seek pleasure from watching people be unhappy. Maybe we should make a happy, just a happy. I suppose I do, I just do feel good Fridays. Yeah, there you go.

Yeah, that's your entire Friday. There we go. There we go. That's that. I have no brain. I have to go back to bed. Can I have to say the first time since I've been born, I've been in bed? It feels so good.

No, I feel like a terrible mother. I've got a horrific guilt. Enjoy it. Oh my God, enjoy it. She's 10 months old. You're allowed to have a couple days in bed. Jesus. Well, I say that, but then I was up with her last night for three and a half hours.

So why would you feel guilt? No way. I feel so guilty. I can hear her having fun downstairs. I'm like, she needs to eat, she needs to get dressed. She needs all, Alex is trying to work and look after her, and I'm just lying upstairs like some beach seal, just hacking. Like I'm choking on a fish.

Oh, gorgeous. It's bad. Okay, let's wrap this up because you're bringing me down. I'm not saying something. I'm already down enough. This is the most chaotic interview of your life. It's so fun, though. It's just mad.

We just love Laura so much And she sent me a text On literally the night before Being like hey babe Do you want to grab a cup of coffee tomorrow I'm like I can't I'm busy I'm in the podcast studio Do you want to have a catch up there

With a microphone She was literally over from Australia for like a few minutes And we managed to steal some of those from her And it was just the most fun I think we've ever had It was so fun We just laugh We laughed and laughed

And it's nice to have episodes like this I enjoy these kind of episodes I enjoy these kind of episodes are fun. Enjoy this interview with Laura. Hi, Laura. How are you? I'm good. It's so nice to be here. This is the most spontaneous episode ever. Laura sent me messaged last night being like, hi, I'm back in the UK. Do you want to have a catch-up? It was like, yeah, do you want to have it with a microphone in front of your face? And like 12 hours later, here you are. Thank you. Thank you. I was actually dying because

I'm so disorganized and I was like, oh my God, I've left it so late to message you. You know what going to be free. And then here we are. Not only will be free. She's very free. Yeah, we have free studio time available as well. You are a co-founder and CEO of KIC, which is huge fitness app and podcast in Australia, but also around the world.

And I was lucky enough to be a guest on your podcast a couple of months ago. And I met you when you were last in the UK and now you're back. And since then, I honestly have been dying at the clips that you have been. putting on your social media. Me too. I love them. So good. I love everything about your brand.

Everything about you. You're so warm. But I also just love that you just share so much on the internet. And you went like super like news viral recently for the fact that you don't wash your braw very often, which evoked some conversation between Al and I as well. Did you go viral for it? Well, I was going to say, were you saying? bra or vibrator because we actually, I went on my Instagram the other day and there was three

consecutive videos of do you wash your bra? Do you watch your vibrator? And there was something else we didn't wash. Oh, do you wash your hands? Yeah. After going to the, and I was like, someone wrote to me on TikTok and they said, this podcast is making Laura seem very unhygienic. Wow. Maybe I am, girl. It did seem like a bad intro, sorry, to like intro you on the podcast. It's like, hi, this is Laura, our guest who never washes her vibrating bra or how. But with our bras, seriously, are we, I feel like I want to prolong the life of my bra. Yeah. So wire in the washing machine, in my brain, seems like bad, just bad, bad for the bra.

Yeah, I've gone with you. Unnecessary. How often do you wash your bras? I don't actually know. Probably like once every two weeks. Oh, you're on the same page then, right? So I wash, I have three bras that I rotate and I wash one. each month.

Usually. Whoa. It is so bad, isn't it? I love that. Wait, wait, wait. So we, so, okay, so say you've got like pink, black white. Yeah. So every month, so in one month you're like,

this month I watch the pink one, next month I watch the black one, and then the month after the white one, love that. So four times a year per brown. But they last forever. Yeah, well. And the pink one, it's not pink anymore.

I can't believe no lingerie companies have reached out to you and offered you more if that's what you need. Like other bras are available. I love them. It's an odd one though because it's like it doesn't really, I guess it touches like underboobes sweat, but it doesn't really touch. This has made me rethink everything

because I wash my bras once every two days. What? What? Yeah. Wait, what are we talking? Also, can I just say, I wash my sports bras. People were coming to me like, Laura, that's disgusting.

I was like, I wash my sports bras. Yeah, fine. So normal bras. I'm breastfeeding. Okay. And I think that's relevant. That's very relevant. Yeah.

So I, some days will wash it every day and some days. Pre breastfeeding. Pre breastfeeding, I'd probably wash my bras once every three or four days. And I don't know why. I just thought that's what you had to do. You probably do. I don't know. But my bras don't stink.

I'm not going around being stinky I'm not very clean you do not like the kind of person that doesn't wash things because bras don't smell do they because they're not touching like well they touch your underarm technically and it's funny as I sit here and you say I look clean because I said as I got here I was mortified I was going to be late

so the Google map said 22 minute walk so I was like I've got it and I only had 15 minutes so I ran a bit of it so currently the entire inside of my top is damp How do you feel running? I always just, this is hot, hot interviewing. How do you feel running in jeans? Because I always think it's kind of embarrassing to go running

when you're not dressed for a run. Well, that's what we do in Australia. Everyone listening that wants to try kick. It's every, no, I'm joking. No, so running in jeans, so I am at work, so organized. Yeah. Very, very organized. Personal, all other shit, completely disorganized.

Yeah. So every day, have. my life. When I catch a train to work, I run to the train station. I have, I have a sweat droop coming down here. I run to the train station with my side bag, with my laptop in it, in my jeans, and it is so uncomfortable. And every single time I'm like, why do I do this to myself? Why don't I just leave on time? Also, no one's going to tell me, Laura, you're like, like, no, I don't have a boss, right? You are the boss. Steph doesn't tell me, my business partner, my business partner and best friend. She doesn't tell me, you know, you're late. But when I know there's a train

coming, I have to get that train. Okay. I can't be like, okay, I'm going to wait 10 minutes for the next one. So I actually run in Jane's a lot and now I think because I do it so often. You're just used to it. I'm just used to it. Because I always think it's kind of wild when you see someone running in her clothes. I'm like, where's the fire? What did you do? The people near my house, I run every day down the street in my normal clothes. It must be looking at the back is this cheek. Does she ever walk? And my wig bag's like banging on my shoulder.

I'm the same as you. I hate this about myself. If I know there's a train, I've got to get it, no matter what. I don't care. I watched the train this morning need the station and I didn't get on it. Oh, I would love to do that. I can't. I can't do it.

I'm going to degrade myself by running on the stairs at a station, though. I don't want to be seen to want something that. Because I think it's embarrassed Do you know what I mean? Like if you run up the sentence and then you miss it I just think it's a bit triad It's tragic

It's tragic So I just pretend I don't care But I can't bear not miss I can't bear and not getting it And you know the best thing When there's other people walking to the same station And you start running

And then they start running Because they're like Oh shit I'm going to miss it And then you get there And it's like five minutes left, you just, you have just look at each other like, shit. Sorry. No, but that's embarrassing when you run on the train, when you run on a tube.

And then the doors just stay open for ages then and you're like, woo. Yeah, catch my breath over here. On principle, I would rather be the latest person ever than ever run for a train. Or if you overtake someone, like not on the running track lane. Oh, what in the car? But then you're running. Yeah, that's embarrassing. And then you get there, but then they also make the train.

What was it all for? They're even so weird. I'm really happy that it happens in Australia too. The Britishness. Can we talk about you and the business that you're always late for? And like, so you run kick, which I've been using the app. Have you? Yeah, I love.

I love it. Oh my God, that makes me so happy. Don't be so surprised. I mean, I'm one of like nearly a million people, maybe more than a million. We have a community of over two million over the world, but not a million people on, on the, well, I wish, maybe one day. We, I mean, we're going to get there. So we can just say it. Say it many as you're on. Anything on this book. Exactly. We spread false information. It's sort of what we do. So, yeah, I love it. I love the app. And I love what you do. But I'd love to hear like what it was, because you do it with Steph, but what kind of led you to getting into the fitness

space and starting the app in the first place? Because you were modelling before, aren't you? So, like, your kind of journey into that would be, like, lovely to hear about. Well, when I, I mean, I grew up super sporty, love sport in a, like, in a really, like, family that love sport. Never, and I was so lucky. I grew up in a household where my mum never, ever, ever spoke about diets. She never spoke about her body, my body, my sister's bodies or diets. And that now that I've been through my own journey, I now know how lucky I was to have that. When I was in, so in Australia, in year 12, we do our kind of VCE, we call it, and we get a score called an ATAR at the end of it, and then that's how you get into university. I had originally put down my preferences going into dietetics, because

also I loved, loved everything about health and nutrition. And then I got my ATAR back, and I got a score that I could get into law with. I had no clue about law. I didn't even know the difference between like a judge or the types of, I had no idea. But I got this score and I was like, oh, I could make work. My mom worked really hard to send me to the school that I went to. And I was like, I could make my mom so proud if I did law. So if I did, I changed my thing, hated it for the first year.

I absolutely hated it. And at that stage, I ended up deferring, I was trying to save for a car and working part time at uni and then studying and trying to save for a car. I could not make that work. So I deferred for six months. I worked in a hospital in administration in the day and then I waitress at night at a pizza restaurant. And I was able to save for my car during that time and then I was like, no, I'm going to go back to uni because administration wasn't for me, so I'm going to go back and finish it. And then at that time, I had started doing a tiny bit of modelling on the side and one shoot paid more than like two weeks of waitressing.

So I was like, this is amazing. I can work less and have time to study. And then I was offered this opportunity to go to Italy and model to Milan, which I feel like now I look back on it. I mean, it seems so glamorous. Like, oh my God, imagine getting the opportunity to go to Milan and, you know, model, which is I was so lucky to be able to do and I ended up saying yes to it. but what the modeling industry is like, and I mean, even in Australia,

there's such a long way to go in terms of the way that our bodies are expected to be in the sizes, but overseas, like in Milan, it was just crazy. Like, I remember I got there and I'd lost a lot of weight before I got there because I knew that I had to be smaller to be able to work in that market. And I got there and I went into my agency and they said to me, oh you must be really in flames from the plane come back next week and we'll do your photos and your measurements when like your body is good for our agency and in my head I was like oh my god this is the skinniest I have ever been in my entire life and at that time like I

started my relationship with food and exercise like genuinely went in the bin like it just it went from not when you have a good relationship with food and exercise you don't think about it just you know, a part of your life, you don't, I don't really think about what I'm going to eat for the next meal. It's like when I get there, what's available, I'll find something, right? But when I started to go down into this path of food consumed my whole mind, like everything, like diet culture was, I mean, I spoke about it on my Instagram recently, like diet culture was my Roman Empire. It was like, I thought about it 24-7. And I then lost a lot of weight and I had this goal weight when I was in Italy that I had to get to. And I thought, when I can get there,

I will have happiness like I will be enough in who I am and I mean I don't weigh myself now but I was like not half the size but much much much small and I like naturally live in a very small body genetically so for me to get that small was so unhealthy I was hardly eating I was excessively exercising and I remember I got on the scales when I got to this goal weight and I I stood on it and I looked at myself and this thing that I told myself I would have so much joy from I looked in the mirror and I was like, oh, you're still disgusting. Like, you're not good enough. You're never going to work here.

You're not going to make it. Like, you're not worthy. Look at your legs. They're not small enough. Like, you need to get smaller. And this was in this body I was in that was just not. It should never, ever, ever have got to the size that I got down to. And so I then came back to Australia.

And through, so Steph, my best friend and business partner in Kik, She'd gone through a really similar experience in New York. And she actually sadly fell into a habit of binge eating. And when she came back to Australia, we both kind of connected on this experience that we went through. And at this time, we'd started to grow following on social media, like Steph especially. And we started sharing kind of what we'd been through with our community online. And when you are in a stage of depriving yourself or kind of having disordered habits or excessively exercising it feels really shameful and you like try to you try to hide it you

don't want anyone to know and I think you know being able to open up and talk about it and realizing that like almost every single woman in the world at some stage because of like diet culture that's all around us from like the moment honestly that we're almost born we see it's in the media it's also in our homes it's like in our friendship groups like we talk about bodies our bodies and the size of them all the time, we're conditioned to think that our body is our worth and that's what matters and that we just need to be smaller and smaller, which is obviously like the work that you guys do, it's just amazing in going against that because it's so fact that that's how we're made to feel. It was actually Steph's idea. I had a blog at the time

and to even make that blog and put free recipes on the internet, to build the confidence to do that, I was like, who the heck is going to want to see? You just get embarrassed. I was like, oh, you know, all my friends are going to be like, who does Laura think she is? Why she got a blog? She's not a blogger. She doesn't know how to make a website or whatever. But I did it and I made a website and I had, I started to get more people coming on and looking at the recipes.

And then from there, Steph said, do you want to make an ebook together? And I was like, no, Steph, I can't believe people are coming to my website for free, like let alone charging 1995 for a book, an ebook. And she said, no, no, no, let's do it. And so we did it and we made this ebook. and then somehow it ended up going really, really well. And I think it was because mainly, well, first of all, people were making the recipes and they were looking better than the photos

because Steph and I are not food stylists. Some of them look so bad. But anyway, it's like you have to start somewhere, right? And so people started connecting with it. And it was just what we wanted to do with the recipes was just have healthy, accessible food. And eating well is not about like eating steamed broccoli and chicken. It's like making food that's delicious.

and you know high nutrients. And so for some of your meals, it's also okay to not always have high nutrient meals, right? So we did the e-book. Because I ate dobles for dinner last night. What's a doble? What's a doble? You've never had a doble.

Oh, my God. You're here till Thursday. You're going to hop down to Pizza Express. D-O-B-L-E. D-O-G-H. Do. Oh, dobles. D-B-B-B-B-B-B-B.

Go to Pizza Express. Yes. Don't order anything else because, I mean, we do. what you want, you know, but dough balls. And they do a garlic butter with the doughball and you just get a ball of dough and you just dip it in the garlic butter. And they're like

so soft but like dense and chewy and hot and warm. And crispy on the outside. I have them for dinner. I thought I had for dinner I was like. Did you order them in? No, I found them in the co-op. Not the same but not bad. Oh, the actual Pizza Express ones? Yep. With the garlic butter. With vegan. You don't have them with vegan. You don't have them normal. and they were so good

and that's all I had and didn't have any vegetables so that was just my dinner and that's fine right it was fucking stunning I am gonna do that they are so good just go Pizza Express

you don't need to just go for like is it a chain is it like a yeah yeah they're everywhere okay okay it's amazing anyway

sorry so you were so I now all I'm thinking about is doughballs okay so where was that ebook and then we

from there we started a because when you do an ebook, you kind of release it and then it's done. There's not, you know, you don't, there's not, it's not like a subscription website or something. So we thought, okay, people are really connecting with this, like, what else could we do with this community that was forming and how could we kind of support? And also for us, like the goal would have always, had always been at that stage to offer them something that was more holistic. So it's not just recipes, it's movement and meditations, etc. So from there we started a small website, a subscription website,

which was, again, you have to start somewhere. It was so basic. It was like you got one workout a month, which we filmed with different PTs in the back of a gym on like an iPhone, no consistency, none of that, and then three recipes a month or something like that. It was very basic. And then, so that was in 2016,

and then by 2018, we then launched the app, which kind of as it is today. And we've got a team of about 20 people now in Melbourne, which has just been crazy to see it and also like to be running it managing people is it's really hard and I'm learning I'm learning every day but yeah so we've got a team of 23 now Melbourne and we've got over a thousand workouts recipes and meditations on on the app and it's been it's been really special to see how and our mission at kick is to change a relationship that people have with wellness and health but also and most importantly with with themselves and it's not about like in the app we don't do

before and after photos we don't do like any progress measurements etc there's no calorie mentions we have a dietitian who checks all the recipes and everything and develops them but not it's not in the app because we wanted to create a safe place where people could go and find exercise that they actually enjoy because we're never going to sustain anything if we hate it it's like running for example I personally love running but I know some people don't like it yeah right and it's like if you just need to find something that you enjoy and we have fun with it like so I mean some people don't like it like some people will write to us like hi guys like I really like kick but I hate Laura's jokes so can she stop making them I'm like sorry but in the workouts

we talk through like Steph and I are in there not as the trainer oh except I take the treadmill classes just because I was really passionate about running but aside from that in the classes where they're just as a friend with the trainer and so like we're complaining we're tired and we find that when our community what we hear from them is that they feel like they're not alone and they're doing it with someone and yeah so it's it's been the honestly like if you had have told me in 2015 what kick would become and like that we'd be here in the UK and we it's just I would never ever ever have believed it like beyond my wildest dream so yeah it's pretty it's surreal seriously it's great that's the journey that's really cool I need to check it out we have postnatal

if when when do you want to Anna really do I did I literally postnatal once when I was getting back That's great. Okay. Oh, I'm going to check it out. I need to actually do it because I have a really bad bladder control. So Steph always, I generally weed my pants the other day at the podcast studio. Because I had my undies around the wrong way in the little absorbent bit. You know, the bot, the, yeah, on my side.

And that bit does a lot. It does it. It does a lot. Does it? Yeah, it does. And I was wearing really thin pants. And I was like. I think, Steph, I think I've weighed my pants, and then I did.

So I need to do the pelvic floor exercises. How do you do all day with the pants on the roll? I dried in the hair dryer, and then I changed my undies around the right way, but I literally stood in the bathroom, like, drying my path. Oh my God, I love you. I love yourself the other day. I weave myself the other day. Did you?

I love that you both have. I know. And I'm not pregnant. Yeah. I didn't want to say. I do have a bed. I have an excuse, what's yours? Seriously.

But I had to tell everyone, like, if you walk past me that day in the podcast studio, you knew that I weed myself. I couldn't bear the chance that someone would have seen it. Like, it was honestly the perfect. You had to tell them. It wasn't like Laura sat in a bit of water. It was like Laura had a leakage. She had a leakage.

Because if they saw it and I didn't, I didn't just blurt it out, I don't know for me, that's worse. Oh, a hundred percent agree. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, you've got a voice. Get in front of it. Yeah, the shape. You have to do it. It's like, do you get cold sores?

No. Well, I get them. And for anyone listening that gets them, I feel you. It's like a living creature on your face. Like, it has a pulse. Like it has, and so if I have one, I literally, I will walk any room I walk into you. I'd be like, I have a cold sore. And they're like, oh, cool.

Okay. Hi, nice to meet you. I got it. You just got to, I just have to. Have you always been like this? Like very. Sherry. No.

I love how shirry you are. I love how sherry you are. Have you always been so sherry? Or do you think the community's caused it? It's the community. So for ages, people generally did not take us, well I mean still now they don't, but I don't care, didn't take us seriously in running a business. I think so often, like especially with social media and if you look at social media,

the people who are the most successful in social media, like by percentage, are women. Like we are very good at building personal brands and businesses, right? right? And I think that might be the reason that in the business world, it's not taken very seriously, even though like building your own brand is actually really hard and you have to be strategic about it, right? Like, you know, just randomly grow a following, you know, just grow this amazing podcast that you have, right? It's like work goes into it. And so for a long time, Steph and I were not taken seriously as running kick. Like, we're so often, and I mean, it still happens now. We'll get to the end of a meeting and people will generally say to us.

And I think they think it's a compliment like men, oh, you actually, you actually. know what you're talking about like you're not just the face of this company like you actually know how to run it and I'm like did you like is that thank you thank you so much for that Brandon like I really appreciate it that and that that that's the reality and so for so long I had this kind of I suppose chip on my shoulder that I thought if I showed this this is me like this side of myself that's my true self and I've always been like authentic on social media because I'm not like an ascetic type you know those pages that I wish I just can't I just yeah it's just not it's not me I tried I can't I try to take a photo of myself yes then it's so gross I didn't even

upload it I was like oh I'm in prison yeah you can't do the aesthetic thing so it's like the real thing but since over the past kind of few years I've really and I think the podcast has out with it too in doing our podcast and I started opening up about things and no one cared like it didn't impact our business, like, no one was like, ew, Laura doesn't wash things. Well, actually, except that lady on TikTok, but aside from that, it's like, that's, that's just who I am. And I think it's like, I've, because of our community and how kind of just accepting they are, which I, we're so grateful for that we've shared it. And then, like, I'm like, oh, I think, like, if I told someone that I weed myself, something would happen, right? Nothing happens. People just

laughed. Like, no one thinks I'm gross. Well, maybe people listening being like, girl, I think you are gross but anyway it's like no one has lost respect for me or like it or will I be taken less seriously and I think if someone did take us less seriously in kick in running kick like currently we're speaking to we're looking at raising money for kick for the first time and I think if someone were to see that and think oh you know they talk about silly things on their podcast I don't want to invest in their business so I don't want whatever it is then they're not the right partner for us anyway because that's how we've grown yeah kick and that's who we are quick story for you because tell me tell me we're on the same page as you we share a lot we share a lot

here um sometimes regret it after but we should we share a lot our community's great um and same as you we've never really had any you know backlash from it's always it's always gone down well apart from one time i someone told us that you shouldn't we in the shower standing up because it's bad for your pelvic floor so you should squat in the shower and pee so i was telling end the story of how I was squatting in the shower to pee, and my husband walked in, right? M took it all, like, way too far. She was like, imagine if you'd been shitting, and then you'd have to, like, stomp it all down the drain, and it would be called, that's called a waffles stomp by the case, right?

A wafel stumped. Grace, clarify, I was not peering. I was just peeing, but Dave, oh, that's why, because Dave was like, oh my God, are you and I was like, no, no, I'm peeing it to my pelvic floor. I'm sorry, get out, please leave me alone. Anyway, this happens. We talk about it.

I don't think anything of it. At the same time, someone or, well, a pot of our tea. Every time you guys say to a hotel, the hotel is like, Ben, get out, get out. The waffles, dog girls. Check the drain.

The puffles of girls. God. Right, so at the same time, part of our team was reaching out to prospective guests. And this one guest... An astronaut. We'd found an astronaut. We were like, oh my God, we need to speak to her. And she showed interest, right?

I'm just going to check out a few of the episodes. And she happened to fucking listen to that one. And then came back and said, I don't think it's for me. Oh, so embarrassing. I'm embarrassing. I'm very serious enough. Well, I, you know what? She was apart from that.

She was going back to space. Well, you presumably won't poo. Surely? Yeah. You know what she needed some, you know what? It's maybe honesty every now and then is good. Because you know when people lie as to like why they won't come on the podcast or whatever and you're like, just tell me the truth?

Yeah, at least you're like, oh, sorry, like my dog. Something happened to my dog and like, you're like, no, I watch you on Instagram. Like, you're at a cafe today. Like, I know, you just didn't want to come on, right? That's fine. But then sometimes the truth is not helpful either. No, you know, because sometimes I think of her floating around in space, needing a poo.

She won't put. Having to do it, like, shame-facedly. Because you don't get the joy. You know, if you make the joy in little things. Like, I can imagine pooing in space would be quite embarrassing because you'd do it and would just float it all. Yeah, you'd have to get it. catch it. And if you can't laugh at that, then really. What are you doing? What are you doing?

I am though, I never knew that you weren't meant to be standing up in the shower. That's probably... Yeah, and if you're in you, and me, and me, and if you're in, you shouldn't associate weeing apparently with water. Like if you're in the shower, like I can't help but we when I'm in the shower. Because you've got the, she's made it. Because I've got the association. But that's bad too. You've got to train yourself to not we in the shower because otherwise every time you're here running water you're going to associate it with needing a wee.

Okay, and why are we pooing in the shower? Can we? No, no, no, there was no, no, no. My husband just came in and saw me squatting in the shower and was like, oh fuck. He saw hooves and fought Zabras. So that's not a UK theme. No, no, no, no, no, no.

No, no, definitely not. No, I know if I'm going to come back now. Working with Steph, you guys share so much, like, because you share your business, you share your, I mean, we do the same thing. Yeah. How is it? Like, has it been the whole way through just like, because you share, you share your friendship so publicly as well.

Has that been like beautiful and amazing the whole way through? Have there been times that are like, I don't know, like, where you, because in your life, like, it's hard to stay aligned all the time, isn't it? So have you two been completely aligned on your, views for kick on like what you want to share like what's too much like have you felt completely aligned with all of it the whole way through oh i mean we've definitely like any friendship like we've definitely gone through times where it's been a little bit tougher but i think for step and i we've got to a point now where we feel like the way i i have two sisters well i feel like

because of step i have three our friendship is at a point where i don't think anything could break it it's like we can have those difficult conversations and i'm a i am a a avoid queen. Like I just like to avoid things, conversations, anything uncomfortable, conflict. I really avoid conflict. And so when you're in a relationship with someone like for set, like I would spend more time than Seth than I do. My husband and my husband always jokes like I'm married. Like we have like a three way marriage and as is Steph's husband. Is it a four way? Well, I mean they're friends. They're friends. But there's been times where we come home and we'll share things like there was one so we come we come home we share things with our husbands and I think it's

because probably the hardest thing for us is when we've been trying to protect each other from because I know because we're so open with each other I know what Steph's going through. Steph knows what I'm going through and we both knowing that and I don't want to put any more pressure on Steph or bring anything up that might be impacting me because I'm like no I know she's already holding so much load and she's the same for me and so I think the thing that we've had to navigate that's been the most difficult is having those conversations when we share 95%, but it's the 5% that maybe we don't, and that's kind of like in a lot of relationships in my life, the 5% we don't share because we're trying to, you know, keep it to ourselves and make the other

person comfortable or not, you know, not cause any conflict, that that's the stuff that's really important and that's the stuff that strengthens your friendship and for us our working relationship as well. And so there has, there was a time once where our husbands were like, sat us stand and we're like, you guys aren't sharing, we know you're not sharing everything with each other because you're not, you want to protect each other, but you're not protecting each other. You just, you need to talk through it. That sounds like a film. Wow.

Does it? I watch Alex and Dave doing that, they would never. I was like, we were like, is this an intervention? Like what, what is it? That sounds like, yeah, that's lovely. It was, but it was, it was because they care so much about. And it's not, I think what's so special is it does feel like this united front. It wasn't like Steph and Josh being like, it was like everyone coming together and it was like,

no, no, you guys, you guys, or Dolson and I, you guys need to talk and you need to share this kind of the other 5% that we, the only reason we weren't sharing it is this because we were trying to protect each other from it. And so that's probably been the hardest part. It's just having because our relationship is, you know, we spend so much time together. We have our friendship. We have our working relationship too. And Steph and I having a strong working relationship is pivotal to everything that we do with kick. And so protecting that and forcing ourselves to have the uncomfortable conversations and just over communicate is sometimes really tough because when you're, you know, you're stressed and you're, as I know you guys spoke about in a recent

episode that I was like, yes, yes, yes, yes. We're just so contactable now. It's like I, we always have like so many DMs, so many messages, texts, slack, emails. It's like all of these things all the time and everything's urgent. And so because of that, I feel like even more so for me, sometimes I'll just feel so overwhelmed that it's like, oh, I don't have the energy to have this difficult conversation. I'll just leave it because it's easier for everyone, but it's not because then it's like you can't work through those things. So that's probably been for us the thing that we've had to put the work into, but because

of it, we have such a strong relationship. And the other thing that's been so pivotal to our, like I suppose, like longevity of our friendship and relationship is that we are both aligned on where we want to go for kick and where we're taking kick. I think at any point that change, that would be really difficult. if you don't have the same vision for something, then I can't imagine how hard it would be to work together, but because we're so aligned on what that is, that helps so much. Yeah. That's really cool. I wonder if men have that, like business BFS. I know. Like, because we're quite good at

well, yeah, we are quite good at communicating, but I do feel like women by virtue kind of are. I don't know, maybe because you're doing a job where like you do share, and we do too, where you share so much of yourself yeah but I guess with men I feel like they're from the off they're blunter and I think more forthcoming with like what they're not happy with like I don't agree with this don't agree with that it's less personal that's what I found with like even my husband he runs his own business and I find that when he'll he'll like have had a really difficult conversation and he'll just talk about it like oh yeah I just said it and like well what did the other person say how did they feel like were they upset or he's like no they just said like cool and then we just moved on it's like they they just

yeah it's never emotional and it's actually not deeper than that yeah it's just like yeah exactly but you like you said earlier you've developed and built a personal brand and like your brand is and that's why kick is so successful yeah so it's it's kind of like the am i using this right like the poison chalice yeah yeah like it's like it's like it's the best and worst part of what you have to do it's you get to work with your best friend every day, but then you also have to navigate the fact that you're working with your best friend all the time, which is like great. But then it just means that sometimes you want to like escape to your best friend and you can't because do you do like, I'll say like date nights. Yes. With you and her where you just don't talk about kick.

Yeah. We should do that. We should do that. We haven't done that in like a long time. Like we always talk about the pod. Yeah. Yeah. Weird. Yeah. We should do that. Every, even if it's like three times a year or something like that. Yeah. It's so nice to do it because you kind of then remind yourselves of not that every day we don't remind ourselves why we love each other but it's like when you're in like next well actually we don't we actually sit quite far from each other at work and or in the kickoffice and sometimes we'll find that the podcast is like the first time of the week we're actually catching up properly but having that but again so you're like on mic right and so what's important is that

we have you know we have deep conversations on the podcast or whatever we're talking about but we also have those conversations off yeah microphone and we yeah just to have that separation and a reminder of you know this is such a special friendship and protecting it is the most important thing in the world that's so lovely that's do you know what's funny i actually went on a trip for staff did you where did you go years ago to ibitha with bondi sand oh my god did you know about then or i think when it was it i mean it must be like seven years ago yeah i did know yeah it's so bizarre to me that you had a life before we were friends.

I'm happy for you and stuff and like, you know, you're like, you should. Why wouldn't you go? But also, what? Where was I? You could have been through it, that, for me? Was it fun? Did you love it?

Did you meet those friends? No, I was lost because I'm not yet. Yeah, of course. Was Steph nice? No, I'm joking. No, she was awful. No, no. She was with, she was with,

there was two girls from it. So it was her and another girl from Australia who was also an influencer, but I just can't remember who it was but yeah we had a we had a great time she she wouldn't remember me it was like quite a big trip i'm sure she would i was small fry at the time not anymore not anymore and she was so she would have flown from like australia for yeah shit yeah they did just to go for three days and the trip like we was talking about it off mic it took me 32 hours or something daughter to get here it is a long

journey. That's a long way. So you're in Melbourne, that's not the right side is it to get here. Of Australia? Of Australia? Yeah, actually, because there's a flight there where you can go direct from the UK to the UK and it's from Perth. So you have to fly Melbourne to Perth and then there. Yeah, otherwise you stop like in the middle kind of. I wouldn't go into central London in the evenings because it's too far away from where I live. And I still live in London. Come to Australia. I know, I can't. I can't. I can't. I can't. I don't know how you do it. But then, I don't know, everything in, like, from here, everything in Australia,

I'm like, oh, you're all tanned and you all looked so happy. I don't know a miserable Australian. Liv, you glow. Do you live by the beach? Sweat. Yeah, but the beach in Melbourne is not, it's not the beach. It's not like a Bondi Beach in Sydney. Have you seen Fulham Beach in London?

Because they fully add. With rocks? It is genuinely, they call it. It's like as big as that coffee table. It is covered in shit. Like, it is disgusting. And they still have the audacity to put up a little sign saying full and beach. it's so bad so much so i haven't made i don't know maybe melbourne is like it's not so bonda is just

like amazing that's like generally when you go there in sydney it's like everyone is in the shark is more in perth but there's some there are some sharks in bonte but not many some's too many for me not more than one in perth there's a lot it's like there's beaches where there's actually always sharks but in melbourne no in sydney yet but the pictures you see of australian beaches you would see bondi beach right in sydney and genuinely everyone is tanned fit and all the men wear those budgie smuggler speeder things see my Irish husband wears those does he? My husband has something to I'm like mate what are you doing? What about the ones that says budgie smuggler on the bottom? He wears those he's got Irish clovers on some he's got some yellow

ones with coconuts on he wasn't all the time and I just wish you never going on holiday with you good assessment we've got a kid now I'm like don't wear them do I know she can't grow up like she can't no she can't grow up like that you're right not with a father like that it's not right he can't it's like he wears whatever he wants no yeah but I'd rather he wore whatever I want it your husband took your surname it did I love that was it I saw an article I saw an article I saw an article about it did you get a reaction for that like what was that like so it was it was really but I think because it means like in my family like my two little sisters are like and my even my mom but mainly my little sisters they're like two and I mean I'm feminist too but

they like these amazing, strong feminist. So every dinner table discussion we have is about, that like is very progressive in that way. And so when we, they were always like never thought I would change. My sisters would have always said to me like, you can't change your surname. Like, you know, you've built your brand. And that was the same for me. It was like, well, my name is, I really feel connected with my name.

And I've built a personal brand around it, right? And so when I had the conversation with Dalton about it, he wanted to have, eventually we hope that we can have kids and for him it was really important he had the same surname as his kids and so he said because we thought we spoke about hyphenating it but then I was like well what if what if then our children have a kid with an like another hyphenated person and then it's like a quadriple-barreled surname like at what point do you let's just imagine so we didn't do that and then so I said okay well I'm not going to change my name like I don't expect you to change yours but for him having the same so name as a family was really important and so he decided

to change his name but it was really interesting because within kind of like at home when I told my family they were like yeah as it should be that's awesome like my sister's like yeah and a lot of my friends too were like oh I'm not surprised like that's so then when he he did change it like the media in Australia was crazy about it it was I mean it was cool that in a way that to be able to talk about it because I think it was it was the way we discussed it was like which name makes the most sense to change it wasn't like there was no gender kind of expectation on like well because you're the woman you'll change your name however the thing within both our families though that's really important to acknowledge is like if people have changed their name to the husband's surname does

not mean that you're not a feminist and there's nothing like there's nothing wrong with that right there's and there's pressures that come with families like different cultural traditions etc so it's obviously extremely layered but for us it made sense and then so people like they it was it was really interesting because I think I was definitely surprised by how many people were surprised by it. Like in 2020 or whenever it was, so we got married that it was like so many people cared so much and it was such a big deal when I, I mean, I hope eventually it's kind of a little bit more of the norm. Yeah.

Because it's not like no one makes a big deal about if people get married and the, you take the husband's surname, right? It's just like, well, that's what it is. So I feel like, yeah, it was a bit. there was people were very surprised yeah did he mind people being surprised no I think the hardest thing for him was navigating it with his family because I think that's something that's really important to acknowledge that it is it's like there's this kind of especially from I think from a male perspective this kind of thing of like oh you're proud of your surname and it's like passing down

the family name and everything so that was definitely tough for him to navigate it and why I said to him like you know you don't have to change your name it's okay if you don't but now he kind of likes it and the funniest thing is every time I know he does it on purpose like when we're like if we're like I don't know at the airport or something and the people will be like if he's got the his old name and like on I don't know changing your name is a hard like in terms of the admin is such a big job right so if he hasn't changed one document it's in the other document or whatever and then he'll always like play it up to the ladies at the airport like there's always like or in Australia like maybe like 40 or 50 old women that work at the desk at like the airline and

he'll be like, oh no, I changed my name to my wife's name. And then they'll be like, oh, really? And he loves it. He just laps it up. Milks it. Love that. Yeah, yeah. I love that.

Yeah, that's really cool. I like that. Imagine. Imagine it's living a life where you just didn't care what everyone you loved thought. Can't imagine. Can't even for a second. Weird. That's my entire life.

No. Who would you be if you didn't care? Who the fuck would I be? I can't imagine it. But I think this is an elder still. to an eldest. I'm an elder. Are you the eldest?

Are you both the eldest? So is Daisy. It's so true. I think for me this is something I'm trying to unpack at the moment to deal with my avoidance of conflict. But I think where it started for me was my parents separated when I was 12. And I, not because of them, because of me, between the age of six, or probably seven, no, six, so when my younger sister was born and 12 felt responsive.

ability to keep my parents together because you know when you're younger you feel like having a family that's a family unit which about when I was so how that was how old am I'm 31 turning 31 so it's like 25 years ago divorce wasn't in Australia wasn't as prevalent as it is now so all of my friends families were one whole they didn't know and had separated families and so I found like and I would in my I would like try and intercept like I was like oh I know this makes them have an argument so I'd be like ready to like interset with like oh this will stop the argument and i think that's what's led to my avoidance of conflict because i was for the six years of my life this like like almost like i had a tennis racket getting ready to like hit away anything that would come towards my parents

that would cause them to have an argument because then they might likely have more arguments and that argument might lead to them saying we're going to divorce which i was trying to like i felt full it not from them in any way whatsoever but on myself i felt full responsibility for keeping them together and I don't think my sisters would have felt that how did you feel when they did split up was it freeing or awful awful awful awful I remember I got home and my dad had he so my parents slept in a different bed for like quite a few number of years and where my dad's room was was right near my bedroom and I had a feeling something was going to happen so I kept checking like if his stuff was there and then I checked and all his stuff was gone and so then I knew and I was

I was in year seven, so I was 12, and then I walked, I said to mum, where's dad? And she's like, oh, he's staying in a friend's house. And I was like, why would my dad's, like, my dad's not a teenager. Like, why would he be staying at a friend's house? And then he then ended up coming over and sat us down and told us. And I was, it's interesting now I look back. It was the best thing that they did and like they should have. And I know they stayed together for us and I wish they didn't feel like they had to,

for me, my sisters, because they were so much happier. apart but at the time i didn't tell anyone for until the end of year eight so for almost two years i would have friends over or whatever and i would be like oh my dad's away my dad's here my dad's doing this because i was so embarrassed and i felt so much shame about not having a family that was together yeah until my again it's like until my and this is why it's so important to talk about these things because then when my friends started opening up like oh my parents separated and i was like oh you're like you're okay yeah there's nothing wrong with you like you don't feel shame so why should I feel shame yeah and then I was able to kind of talk about it yeah with them

god bless you oh that's really hard and it's such like a formative like these vulnerable years that's really tough to deal with I mean it's told me a lot I think it's like also why I can run out not the exact skills but like I think that's what's brought like in me my drive and everything like we had it from that point which I was I'm so grateful for because my mum, so she had, so she had three of us and she, there's three years between us. She kind of, actually, she didn't go back to work in between the, for kind of six years. And so she then was back part time when they separated. But she didn't have a lot of super. She didn't have an income. And my dad also didn't make much enough money to like separate

to, sorry, to support two households. Because when you separate, you split everything. half right and so what I then saw was my mom having to then obviously go and find a full-time job which was she was happy to do but she then was in a really hard position with her career that she then and that this is why like I'm so passionate about this topic for women when we are in relationships like so often like the woman will be the one in heterosexual relationships that stays home right and stops working and then you're like oh I'm going to have another kid in two years so there's no point of going back to work and then another two years at in that time the the male has progressed in their career right they've maybe their jobs that they've gone up the career ladder or

whatever so then they earn quite a good income so then if something happens for the the female to go back into the workplace you've lost you know six to 10 whatever how many years it is and it's really tough to then go build back up and it's really hard there's it's also much harder to build up the career ladder once you're past a certain age as well which is obviously so wrong and so you don't get super during all of that time. So, you know, for all the time that my mom was with us, like she, and now, I mean, I'm so grateful that I'm able to, if my mom would ever need it, I'm in a financial position where I can always support my family now, which makes me so happy.

But I think it's just, it's just one of those things that, because of that, so we had a fridge, a sticker on our fridge that said a man is not a financial plan. And so I have this drive in me that I'm like, I don't, I want to be able to, like, where my kind of work ethic comes from, I think is from. that and being like my my mom's work so hard you send us to the school we went to give me the education give me all these opportunities that she could never give herself so and you can only get there with hard work so I feel like that in some way it's been like the silver lining I suppose it's also like it is it does just happen like it yeah and I feel like as adults we didn't really

like dwell on it but like I remember when I started my big school in year nine I think all of our parents were together there were like 11 of us in our sort of like group and 11. of us all our parents were together and by the time we left I think five of our parents are split up within a five year period and it's like so almost half yeah I think it was more than half yeah maybe we were nine anyway I think it was over half maybe it was six but anyway it was just it was mad but I feel like like you said we didn't really talk about I don't I don't know anyway weird but but what I mean to say is that it does affect a lot of us and I think it's probably affecting and the cause in for a lot of people in the same way that it is

for you. But just going back to what you're saying about the confrontation, how do you run a business when you, and I'm asking for a friend, how do you run a business when you don't want to confront people and you don't have that like natural streak to you? Do you feel, I don't know, like it's harder or how do you navigate it? Oh, it's definitely harder. I feel that and it's like something that I've learned that I have to do it. Like in my job, I can't have my job in the business without being comfortable with having uncomfortable conversations. Even though I hate them, I hate them so much. They make me feel sick.

I don't sleep. But you know what someone said to me once? They said, if you felt we were talking about we had a person in the team that I had to give some quite hard feedback too. And there's a actually, what's her name, Kim, what's her? What is the book? There's a, no. I was in the name's name.

Like, don't say, don't say it. Radical candor. Kim Scott, Kim Scott, highly recommend reading that book. That has taught me a lot about having uncomfortable conversations in the workplace is really important. It starts that that book starts in the first chapter. Kim speaks about someone that she managed, that she lacked them so much, that was so lovely, everyone loved them around in the team, and they just did really bad work and they didn't do their job.

And they continued to do really bad work. And instead of giving them feedback on how they can improve and that they weren't meeting her expectation. She just let it go and she did their work because it was easier for her to do that than to try and work out how this person was going to be able to do it. But you. You would do that.

What happened? You have to read it because what happened then is that they had to let this person go because what then happens is this person was letting down the entire team. Everyone was having to pick up their work. The team was not performing because they had someone that shouldn't have been in that role. And so she had to let them go. And they said to her, why didn't you just tell me?

and it's like this no one wants to be the person that's never got feedback and it's like everyone is kind of talking about them and doing things around them to make them work in the role even though it doesn't work like if you think about putting yourself in those shoes you never want to be in a role where you're not doing the job that the business needs you to and no but no one's giving you the feedback and so that has helped me a lot but then someone also said to me that if like if you have to have a really hard conversation it's if if you feel comfortable about having to let someone go or whatever it may be and that doesn't like stop you being able to sleep or make you feel anxious then you're a psychopath like seriously if you could all day go around

like firing people because when if you let someone go like it affects like a lot of like their light like there's a lot of things that are affected right hard conversations are important but and it's okay to feel uncomfortable having them and that's what I've learned and I'm not a psychopath so I do feel uncomfortable and I don't want I you know I don't want to be psychopaths too that's yeah that's fine by me but yeah that book that really the first first chapter especially is really good for that. Radical Kanza. It's hard.

Okay. Watch me. I'm going to be in you. He'll be like, with your shield up. I'll be firing stuff at you, though. He'll be like, no. Thanks, Laura. Alex just breaks down.

It's hard. It's so hard. She's just fire me. Yeah, and me. Do it on your own. You don't need it. Well, do you know what? This has been such a nice conversation.

great we've been around the houses yeah but in a really lovely way thank you yeah I've really enjoyed it thank you for having me all the back's for coming on should I delete that is part of the ACAS creator network