Should I Delete That? - Trolls, forums and being an influencer with Nelly London

Episode Date: April 3, 2022

In this episode, Em and Alex talk to Nelly London about her life as an influencer and her methods for dealing with incessant trolling. Nelly also describes how being objectified and sexualised as a young person affected her relationship to her body, and influenced her anxiety. As well as that, Em and Alex talk periods and awkward accidental hand-holding!Follow Nelly on Instagram @_nelly_londonShow timestamps:Good, Bad & Awkward - 00:04:40Interview with Nelly - 00:23:25Is It Just Me? - 01:31:32Follow us on Instagram @shouldideletethatEmail us at [e-mail] by Mindler, use code DELETE22 for 50% off your first therapy session.Mindler is an online therapy app, offering video call sessions with psychologists. Self-help programmes are also available in the app, covering a range of diagnoses.Produced & edited by Daisy GrantMusic by Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We are delighted to be partnered back up with online therapy app Mindler. If you're struggling with your mental health and it's impacting your daily life or you just need someone to talk to, Mindler is a brilliant app that is helping to make therapy accessible. Mindler is a digital healthcare provider that offers online therapy with psychologists via video call in their app. You can choose which psychologist that you'd like to speak to and on the website and app you can filter by the psychologist's specialties and also see their photo and bio before you book. Mindler has short waiting times and once you've booked in your first video call on the app with a psychologist, you get unlimited access to a whole library of self-help programs

which can either be carried out independently or with the help of a psychologist. These programs cover a range of diagnoses including stress, depression, anxiety, burnout and more. You can use code delete 22 to get 50% off your first session. Oh my God, why did I post that? Ah, I don't know what to do!

Should I delete that? Yeah, you should definitely delete that. Hello. Hello. I have to start the podcast with something quite shocking that I went in the UCS today. Oh, no. You know when we first started this podcast and I asked you if when I died, if you'd eat me, if you'd eat my ashes as a mark of friendship. And you said no, because you're a massive dick.

well in the news I saw yesterday that there was a man I think he was one of the Rolling Stones I've forgotten the finer details who snorted his dead dad no yeah

he put his ashes in with some cocaine and he sniffed him up oh no come on and I thought there's Alex he won't even eat me that is so I'd rather eat you than snort you well good I'm pleased for getting somewhere now

eating is not looking so bad. Hang on, hang on, right, okay, I'm going to show my glaring lack of like anatomical knowledge here, but so when you, when you eat something, right, at least it goes into your waist, right? It'll just come out, yeah? But when you snort something, it's goes direct to your bloodstream, doesn't it? Yeah, well, uh, so then how does it come out of you? I don't know. Oh my God, does that mean that if you do cocaine, it just stays in you forever? Well, this is the thing. Oh, okay, you know what's fine? I'm really pleased that we've brought up bodies because I just have a question for you, Alex, and I don't know who else to ask this. I've been thinking about anal beads quite a lot.

Okay, as you do. Sure. In general. And I've been wondering, you know, if you put anal beads up your bum, do you think I've never put anal beads up my bum or anyone else's bum? But I've been thinking about it, and I've been thinking, if you put anal beads in, right, and it doesn't go in, like, in,

like, do they stay straight? Or, when you put them in, do they just get all bunched up and then end up, like, in a pickle, like, like headphones? in a handbag. You know what I mean? I don't know if they go up one by one like a train. I've Googled it and I don't know. I see what you're about to do.

I know. It's not clear. I want to Google the size of them but I guess you can get them in different sizes. No, no, no, no. I've got it. I've got it. Okay, we're going to have to share this picture. Okay, you ready?

Yeah. This is exactly what happens. Oh. Oh my gosh. So they do go up one by one by one like a train carriage. I think that's, I think it's stiff. Yeah, it's not like a wire, it's like stiff. So I think, I think.

Oh, okay, fine. I thought it was like a necklace and I was just imagining it getting a real tangle. There you go. But thank you so much for shining that light. And if anyone can let us know the difference between like snorting ashes and eating ashes, that would be great. As in like what happens to the end, you know, like how'd, yeah. Do they just evaporate into your blood? They stay in your blood forever because that's gross.

That's gross. I'm so sorry, that's disgusting. Anyway. So just so we're clear for now, you'd rather eat. me, then snort me. 100%. If we've got any lawyers listening, could you please write that down?

I want that noted. It feels like with eating you, there would be, like, there's an end point to that. Like, you just come out as poo, right? So that's fine. Okay? Okay, I mean, it's not ideal.

Like, I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't go for it. But if I had the choice, rather than you're just living in my bloodstream forever, I'd go for eating you. I'm just a really good friend and I'd do whatever. Like, what do you want?

Oh, please. I'd roll myself in you. I'd use you like a hair mask. Anything. Anyway, um, sorry, let's get in, let's get into this week's episode. The good, the bad, and the awkward. Tell me you're good. I don't, I don't have one.

Well, I don't, I mean, everything's kind of quite good, apart from the things that aren't. so um love that yeah I mean well I did I went to choose my wedding ring yesterday but I didn't choose it so that's not that good I haven't chosen yet it was too difficult to the decision

they look gorgeous though they really nice they do they really do I felt very fancy yeah just you know life's quite good isn't it just happy to be alive I like that a while ago I read and I don't know where this came from which is annoying I should probably find out

before I quote it but I think I was reading either an article Oh, because I don't know if you subscribe to Medium, but I love it. I bloody love it. It's like, this is not an ad, but it's like, I think it's four quid a month and the articles on there are so, I mean, it's hit and miss, obviously, but like, it's just a huge, like, platform for, like, tons of different articles and they're really good. Anyway, I think I was reading one on there about happiness, or I got it from a book. I don't know, because I've got a shit memory, but this did stay with me that it was a quote that, it was a quote, that happiness,

is the absence of bad things basically totally butchered it but you get the concept right it's like you're not you don't necessarily like happiness is not like this like state of euphoria where you're like oh my god everything's amazing this is so good it's just kind of the absence of any sort of negativity in your life and i really like that i really like that so if someone says are you happy i'm like yeah i am happy i'm content and i think yeah because i think we think of happiness as like this this intense state like yeah like this euphoric like I'm on top of the world I'm on cloud nine and actually I don't think it necessarily is so and also the things that are really good are like so mundane like I notice doing this every week I'm like what's good I got my

hair cut which sounds so boring but actually it's really nice you know what I mean like but then it's boring to say it so I just think in general everything's quite good I had dinner with Alex last night that was good I'm still alive that's good boo is beautiful if not a bit stinky at the moment that's good you know everything's just quite good love it um what's your good do you know what i kind of struggled this week as well um i struggled because my good has my good has been resolving something that's been uh at play behind the scenes for ages but then i don't want to just look like i'm shamelessly plugging my book again but that's what it's going to look like anyway so fuck it um the book cover i have been so awkward about it like so awkward i have made harper collins and

their design team's lives hell because and who knew like I'm no graphic design I can't graphic design for shit but apparently I'm very difficult about what I like and very specific and particular about what I like easy for me to say um and I've been going back and forth and back and forth and like being like I don't like it but I can't really tell you why which is very helpful um so finally we got there and they sent me the mock up so and it arrived yesterday and I was like thank god for that and I was like it's it's done you're bad my bad my bad oh I'm having a horrible period it's horrible oh yeah you're funny I've gone nauseous I'm just I'm not quite thriving with it it was early and it can suck my dick

nausea's so not fun that's like I for me that's like one of the worst symptoms because I can handle pain I can't, well, I can handle what of certain amount of pain, but I can't handle nausea, like, oh, it's the worst. Because you can't, it's so debilitating, you can't do anything. It's horrible. No, it's just bullshit. Yeah, like, literally, went for a walk yesterday morning. Because bear in mind, like, we've talked about this so much,

but I didn't have periods for 12 years. So still now, when I get them, I'm just like, oh, this is so, like, novel in a way. And I went for a walk yesterday, and I was just like, oh, I decided to sit down, like, four times. Like, and I just, it's just bullshit. It's just absolute bullshit. it. I'm still, you know, thriving, obviously. So take all of this with a pinch of salt. But it's just really annoying. But it's fine. I'm, I'm, I'm, you know, whatever, it's fine. It's a bit

bad. But, you know, I basically, I'm going to have this bad once every four weeks, I suspect. Yeah. Speaking of periods, update. I've got, I've had one. Yes. But it lasted like 10 days. Really weird. And also, it was like weird, like really weird, like not like a normal period. I don't know. It was really strange. So, yeah, I mean, because people, people get in DMs being like, have you had a period yet? So I just thought I do a mass, I do a mass update. So everyone knows. I've had one, but it's weird.

But it's weird. I think I want, I know we need when, we need a period person on this podcast as soon as possible. Yeah. Yeah. We actually do because it's like, it's the wild, wild west out there when you Google anything to do, with periods and coming off contraception and getting your period back, it's chaos. There's like millions of people talking about

there, all their different experiences, saying you have no idea what's right, what's not right, what's, what's too long, what's too soon, like it's just, it's chaos. So I think it would be really good to have that episode. I am enjoying natural cycles though. I know I've talked about it in the podcast before, but I'm really enjoying it now.

I signed up. Yeah, I remember you saying this period was a bit of a surprise to me and to behalf, but that has no one saw it coming but apart from that it's been pretty spot on with everything has it? And I think this was human error rather than app error. I'm not using it

as contraception because I just know too many people for whom that went wrong. Yeah, yeah. My friend's using it to get pregnant and she said just like as a PSA to everyone she said that it took like three cycles for the app to really get in sync

with her and her ovulation days because she bought ovulation pea sticks as well to find out when she was ovulating so just for a PSA for anyone who is like trying to conceive with it just have sex every single day

like in the vague period where you think you might be ovulating like don't fully rely on the app until you know you're in a good cycle with it so how long ago did I get it must have been three months ago and I only got the notification yesterday morning saying we've confirmed your ovulation day

so I'm using it Well, I'm not using it not to get pregnant, but as far as the app is using it, as far as the app thinks I'm using it as a con, because you can basically choose when you go on that you use it as a contraception or as a trying to conceive. And I've got it listed as contraception. And yeah, anyway, so it's, but, so it's taken, and yesterday it told me that it finally knows for sure when I'm modulating, because I've given it enough data because it's a tip of temperature every morning and stuff. So it's just really interesting. And, like, I like, I like, I like, knowing when my skin's going to be good, when I'm going to be crabby, like, just, well, I'm really feeling my own because I really do notice myself just feeling fucking fantastic when I'm ovulating and I didn't know that that was a thing before but now I know I actually look forward to it because I'm like I'm going to look good I'm going to feel good like it's so that's cool I like that yeah it is really it is good and I do need to start taking my temperature more often because it's kind of doing it but then it said the same every day so I was like that's the point babe oh and then when you're ovulating it'll go up and you

temperature goes up because you're getting hot and then it so my temperature i'm surprised i'm alive to be honest my temperature is always like 35 i'm like am i all right um yeah it's quite low right yeah i know i'm like weird um but yeah and then it comes up so yeah at the minute it's down in like 35 it's like 35.7 this morning for me and then it goes up and i get like almost regular human temperature when uh when i'm ovulating oh that's so interesting okay so i just need to keep going until it okay I did like three days in a row and I was like slithering like cold-blooded snake over you are you are what's your bad please your honour oh my bad my bad and this is a genuine bad and it's going to sound it's going to sound like you're like are you joking but um it's becoming

more and more apparent that the dog prefers Dave to me right I know and it and she really really does right so she sleeps in the bed between us and she used to like flip from side to side like whose legs she sleep on, but she's just slowly migrated over to Dave's side. She doesn't sleep on my legs anymore. I wake up in the morning and she's lying all over him and he's got his arms around her and they're all cuddling and spooning. And I just feel, I feel really emotionally impacted by it. It's not good for my rejection complex, my abandonment complex. I feel sad and I don't get it because I shower her with love. Dave is, Dave is like, cool as a cucumber. Like he lets. You want it too much, child.

I'm desperate. I'm desperate. And she can smell it on you. I know, but I've tried. It's overpowering. I've tried so hard to be cool and it's just not in my nature. I can't. I'm literally like, I love you, Betty.

Maybe put a piece of chicken in your sock or something and completely aloof. And she's going to come over and be like, I want this chicken. And you're going to be like, what chicken? Who are you, bitch? And just ignore her. Ice her out. And she'll be like, what is happening? mom and then when she realizes that she can't she can't have you or no wait I don't know

it's like I'm gonna try it I feel like I'm just quoting I feel like I'm just quoting like all of the like cosmopolitan like like like miss like 10 things I hate about you know what's they called that how to do the guy in 10 days that's what we're gonna that's what we're gonna do to betty okay she's Matthew McConaughey okay and you're the woman okay and you're just gonna play really hard to get you find another dog just go and stand it in the park. She's bring another dog home. No, I'm joking. Don't be able to. But like, just come and see Bua and just like stroke her loads and then go home, smelling of another woman and better be like, and I pretend she doesn't exist. I just pretend she doesn't exist.

Well, I'm obviously still like going to feed her and water her. Yeah. Yeah, like still take it to the park, but normally when I take it to the park, I talk to her all the way, but I'll just ignore her. Yeah. I'll let her in. I'll let her off lead and say, whatever, do your own thing. I'm not looking at you. Okay, I'm on it, I'm on it, I'm on it. I'm on it. I refer to all the time. We're in the park and she's like, runs, like, she doesn't run away. She's so good. But if she's like, I don't know, she's got, she eats a lot of sticks, which isn't great. But like, sometimes I'll leave when, like, she'll lie in the middle of the park. And I'm like, well, I'm going to go now. And if she doesn't come, I'm like, okay, well, it's been really

nice owning you. Good luck in the park. Have a great time. And she always looks to me like, you don't mean it. And then I'm like, bye. And then I turn around. She's like, wait. And then she runs. So, I don't know. I don't know. I do. Yeah, okay. I'm on it. I'm half-taking.

But on a serious, on a serious note, I sometimes think this about Alex and booer because, but then he's the fun guy. I'm the one that does the walk every day. And I'm the constant because I walk her every day. I feel it, well, actually, he did. It's been, it's been interesting since COVID. But I don't think dogs think like us. She's not looking at you being like, scummy bitch.

I'm choosing dad. Like she's just, you know, just doing, she's just being a dog. She's just, she gravitates towards him, which hurts more than her looking at me and thinking, what a scummy bitch. Do you know what I mean? I would rather that than her just thinking, oh, she's, she's fine, but I'm all about him. I need to take this to therapy, okay? I need to take this to Jacqueline. Please stop putting your rejection complex on your dog.

Every time I wake up, I look over, and my heart. heart sinks. I'm like, oh my God. And she's lying on his chest as looking into his eyes and I'm like, yeah, there we go, there we go. I knew it. I am just top liver. This is really sad. Yeah, okay, this is sad. Oh my God, I always managed to meet my bad's really sad. Pathetic. Should we just call it the good, the sad and the awkward? Yeah. What's your awkward? Oh, God. It's just so, it's just so me. Yesterday, I went, I went to a, I'll tell you what I did. I went to the hairdressers.

I went to Samantha Cuswick, the place that basically Zoe Sog goes because I've looked at Zoe Sog's hair for the last 10 years and be like, one day I'm going to go and see a hairdresser. And then for reasons best known to myself, I just never booked to actually go. And then this week I was like,

it's time. So I booked it and I went. And I was excited and I wore my lipstick and I looked quite pretty. I was wearing a dress. And I got there and I was having a nice time and I took Buwer with me. And they let Bua sit up on the

the chair next to me which I always love when hairdressers do that like I'm getting my hair washed and then she's on the next door chair and we just look like a like a 60s poster you know and it was cool anyway and then this guy came over and he starts stroking Buwer and he's talking to me and I was a bit aware when Buwer gets it quite excited that she's being stroked she might have tried to jump off the chair so I was like I'll just hold on to her harness when she's sitting there so he was stroking Buhr and I just went to go and hold on to the harness and I realized about 20 seconds too late that I wasn't holding onto the harness I was holding onto his hand

because she just trying to stroke this. This makes everything inside me go funny. I don't like it. Because I can feel I'm still trying to like get the stroke motions

and he was being like held on to by me. And I'm also like tightly holding on and I just have my hand like on his hand. He just left. I did have seen, yeah, he didn't talk to me again and I was just like, okay, I'm never coming back, thanks. My hair will never look this good again, and that'll be my own fault.

You shouldn't be like that in public. Oh, I know. I know. Well, you're awkward. So I was on the train yesterday, and I was sitting in a two, and then in front of me was another two, and you know how there's like a gap in between the seats, right?

Yeah. I'd been at a shoot and then I got straight on the train so I was like oh relax and I was like I'm going to go on stories and catch up yours is obviously the first always on my stories of course yes they know

so I was catching up and it was like I was on a picture of Bua and then I literally just looked up when I'm on a train I have to look up so don't get car sick right I looked up and as my eyes kind of came into focus I was like

that's a picture of Bua on the woman's phone in the seat in front of me, right? She's a star. She's a star. And I was like, oh my God, this is so surreal and like meta and black mirror and fucking crazy. And I was like, the woman in front of me is on M stories. So then I texted you and I was like, I don't know whether to say like, that's my friend.

But then also I was like major invasion of privacy. That's the dog I'm leaving my dog for. Yeah. That's my new mistress. That's the dog I'm going to have a friend with. It feels like an invasion of privacy to be like I can see that you're looking at you looking at your phone and then I was very awkward and you were like

just set just do it and then I was like no I can't so I was trying not to look but it was also too exciting she was scrolling through her feed and then one of my posts came up and she went to the comment section and I was like oh my god this is so weird but she didn't tell you no no because I did panic for a second and I thought, oh my God.

New notification, you absolute bitch. And I was like, oh my God, I should so say something because really, this is really like evading the space. What are you going to say? Comment, comment, like, share. Also, the train was really busy. There was someone sitting next to me. There was someone sitting next to her.

So I couldn't, I felt like I couldn't be like, excuse me, like that's my friend there. So I don't know. It was just, it was all very awkward. So you didn't do anything? I didn't do anything. Oh. I know.

I know. I know. I mean, it's fun for the group. Fun for our egos. Very fun. Very fun. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, like, I'm a bit sad she didn't troll you. Oh, my God. I was scared for a second. I was like just keeping an eye on my phone to see what comments came through. So, yeah, so that was fun. But if you're listening, I'm so sorry for invading your space and looking at your phone. But also, I think it sound like you literally like had your little face squished through the chest. Okay.

Oh, my God, we've got such a great interview today. Oh, we do. We do, we do. This is with our friend, which is so nice. An actual friend of the podcast. We went down to Brighton last week to go and see Nellie, who were interviewing today. Nellie London, if you don't know, is like just, oh, isn't she just the loveliest? just the best she's the best she's so nice to follow on instagram literally she just she's so

joyful like bring so much joy into my feed and she's also a genuinely really nice person we like her but despite that she's actually had and and does endure a lot of trolling and she messaged us about doing this podcast she's not done one before um and she wanted to talk about the the the real effect that trolling has and i think like this was such an interesting conversation, wasn't it? Because it was about misogyny and social media and the way we speak to each other and our own jealousy, our own anxieties and projection. And it was such an interesting conversation. We actually went down there because Nellie recently had a surgery. She's had to have multiple corrective surgeries after a boo production sort of went wrong. And we wanted to talk to her about that. And then we got so distracted with the trolling shit that that's what today's episode's about. She's coming back, and we're going to do another episode with her about her titties. Sorry, Nellie. We'll do another episode about surgery, I think, and society's view of that, even, and that'll be really cool.

But for now, for now, here's Nellie. Enjoy! Hello, everyone. We are, we're in a very exciting location, actually, today, are we? we're on location we're in Brighton Hove Edit that oh my god Do it again

I'm sorry I said to M here Like where's Brighton And she was like We're in Brighton and I was like I thought we're in Hove Brighton and Hove though isn't it The borough? We don't have borough

Oh I don't think one's honour But can I just say Alex last night said me a screenshot Of Google Maps And she said Fuck it's really far away And I was like what do you think it was?

When did she's like, could we put to go to the coast? I was like, Al, when we talked about this, you said, oh my God, we can go to the beach and we can go swimming.

And then you sent me that being like, oh my God, it's by the sea. It's like just outside London. No, that's it just outside London. It didn't put those two together.

Anyway, we are in Hove and we're recording with a very special guest who's actually a friend of ours and a fellow influencer. Shut up. speak French

Nellie Nellie London Hello Thank you so much for being here today with us Thanks for driving all the way down You've got to see Loved it

Love a road trip Stop at Starbucks We're happy We've invaded your place Boers here as well And you've got little Mr Kippling biscuits Saffras which has made me

very happy Thank you so much But you don't do a lot of podcasts So thank you for doing You've never done a podcast Is this your very first? Welcome. Amazing.

Okay, we can be terrible and she won't know the difference. Yeah. I appreciate to do. No, I've been asked to do a good handful of podcasts. Okay. They just scare me too much. Do they? But I know you guys.

What is, so then what is the reason that you don't do many podcasts? Oh, God, I'm scared. I don't know why. It's probably just like a self-critical thing, isn't it? You're just scared. You'll say something that, I don't know. Someone doesn't like it, you don't like. I say things to my friends all the time and then think, oh, what the fuck

was I talking about how embarrassing like that's not really how I feel or think why do that in a recorded form is slightly terrifying it's that mean isn't it it's like did you ever leave a social situation and just think that was not my best one yeah that's me every time I go I do that all the time I'm like this terrible reflection of who I am but I've left now so that's why is it confidence are you confident I don't know I actually think it might be confidence related which is weird mm because like what I do I feel like work and stuff and it's like I feel like I nailed the body confidence aspect of my life

right to have a good few years but I do think I've got there always working on it as as you will but physically like social confidence being out on certain public spaces I do I feel it's difficult for me for sure yeah and actually like you say like oh it's funny given like what I do for work but actually it's so it is so different there is such a huge despair because I mean you're at home like taking pictures in front of you know in front of your phone but there's no one else around it's like all private you've got full control and yes it's going out to a lot of people but you forget yeah yeah it doesn't necessarily compute that amount of people but then like when you're faced with a social situation it is a lot different and you have to they realize they're in the room yeah yeah and you can't really control it you can't like it can't be curated at all it has to be like natural and I can't totally see the difference yeah do you do you do you do you oh it's so funny my friends say this all the time do they people to do what this like you are just the last one we'd expect really oh I'm surprised by that I think I'm the mum friend okay definitely the mum the

obviously because I don't drink and if I do go out with the girls I'm like oh my god stop it you don't need to drive sit down have a glass of water oh yeah it's always the driver because I passed my test really early because I was so keen to like do it and be independent always been the driver always been the take carer but yeah

I feel like in certain like some social situations like when I'm meeting people who like follow me I'm all amazing I've chat to them for hours and hours so I have the best time and it's just lovely

certain events even like public photo shoots I'm like the most confident person I've ever see like that London photo shoot I did last summer I think it was. And I was wearing a full set of lingerie, high-heeled boots, strutting through, like, Kensington.

Loved it. You could not have told me anything. I was the queen of that road for those five minutes that I did. And you looked it. Yeah. Yeah. The videos show it. That wasn't fake.

But put me in a slightly crowded bar. I'm like, in the same outfit. Get me. But yeah, it's weird. It shows up in different ways. But social, I don't know if I want to call it social anxiety. But certain situations, for sure. need work. But I think social

anxiety, like, to an extent everybody has it. Because there's always situations that like you just, like I'm a really confident, like I know I can go into a room and I can not, I'm just going to be like, I'm going to fucking smash this and then I'm out. You know what I'm going to go in?

I was going to charm the shit out of everyone and then I'm out. But then there's also some situations like the idea of like walking into a restaurant first. I'm like, don't look at me. Like I can't, you know what I mean? Alex always has to go inside that scene. You've seen at the office and Dwight's like I never let anyone walk behind me that's me I'm like do not walk behind me I don't I don't like it I want I want to follow like I'm like a total but it's so

weird and there's like no rhyme or reason it's just it can show up very randomly yeah so some days I can do it I bought a dress last week I'll show you what they are it's the most fabulous thing you've ever seen it it's just unbelievable and I look so good in it and I was strutting around the flat in it and I was FaceTime and my friends I said we're going out what are you doing this weekend I'm ready and they're like like, okay, yeah, we'll text you on Friday. Friday comes around. I'm like, sorry, I don't feel the hell. Oh, I don't come out anymore.

Oh, no. It's weird, isn't it, though? But I think, like, the expectation like on us to be able to, like, thrive in every, not on us, you know, three of us, but on women to, like, thrive in every situation. Sex and the City really did a number on us. You just imagine you're going to be out for, like, breakfast, lunch and dinner looking fucking stunning. There are these underground clubs, like, swerving through people.

I'm like, I'd have a panic attack. I can fucking ever. But then there's certain times, like, Brighton Pride my favourite day of the year I thrive I think this is the third year

Pride is happening this year but we've missed two because of COVID favourite day of the year I absolutely love again I skip down the road like

just love in life but it's the only sort of party environment that I like it's outdoors outdoors I might help yeah sunny

good vibes definitely feel safer in queer spaces always have so growing up in Brighton like I think you just get used to that very quickly and like normal clubs

but they're traumatising for a young teenager like oh my god don't the men the groping I know we're going to talk about boobs in a bit but having such huge boobs I was so sexualised so young it's so interesting you know hearing how much safer you feel at pride it's like

you know they say if men weren't on social media would you still use it and I feel like for you time of my life would you yeah I'm lucky my audience is like 98 like it's all women I'm sure yours are the same like so much more female followers than male and every time a man like I spot a man what are you doing here get out how did you arrive here this is not for you I think that's such an important point like

the like and I know we're going to talk about your boobs but like the the sexualisation of like any children is extraordinary like it's actually not a surprise that you don't feel safe in certain or any it's actually a surprise that anyone do feel safe after dark in any space yeah I've always felt that massively I also have like working on it again but I feel really of my friends like jealousy is a horrible thing to feel but like being honest I do experience jealousy when my friends go out and they they just have a great time I'm like how are you doing yeah how are you in this club like you know there are men looking at you in a certain way and you're just you just feel fine you're just getting on

with your night as you should but I'm sat there like how how are you doing I'm sat here watching for you I'm like who's looking at you are you safe are you safe yet we're all safe okay fine and then I go straight back to it am I safe am I safe it's horrible isn't it so I just get so like I wish I could just let go have a drink

enjoy life because why am I not it's silly but yeah it's not silly and it's like it's come from somewhere but I think about the situations

I was in as a teenager and I'm just like fucking hell yeah it's crazy it's crazy you know because now I'm like even when I'm absolutely paralytic as we were on Saturday night

I'm like where's the threat where's the threat I'll fucking take it out how many. So I wanted to ask. So you said your Instagram following is like almost entirely women. And, you know, when we were saying that you create content for women and it's not the male gaze. I know this because you've shared sometimes, you know, you've shared a few comments and DMs that you've received.

But still you get that negativity of people saying that you're, you know, showing yourself too much or showing too much of yourself. Yeah. and actually I was thinking when you talk about your photo shoot in London your video shoot sorry and I remember people saying like put it away you know like there are children there are children yeah yeah children exist in the world how dare you have an ass but some of the responses like you'd think I was performing sexual acts in the street yeah and that's where I was I wasn't expecting it to be honest because I'm like used to my audience and I know my content and I thought this is just a really wonderful empowering piece of content.

It was so out my comfort zone. It was terrifying, but I was so glad I taught myself into doing it. And then when it came, like, the responses were, like, there are children. Obviously, put it away. I mean, it happens all the time anyway. I don't expect that. It is what it is. And it's coming from women.

Yeah. Yeah. All coming. Well, not, yeah, all coming from women. I was genuinely surprised, but I did find it very interesting. But just the children comment in general, I was like, What an interesting way to think. I wouldn't have even considered it.

No, that would never cross my mind. But I also, like, me and the photographer, it was just me and Rebecca, just one of the girl. We were very, like, we were very ready. Whenever it was these walks that we were doing, obviously they lasted about nine seconds, max, like you can watch the real, that is it. The second they were finished,

I was there, like, pass on my coat. We were, like, on off, walk done. I think I was wearing that in public for less than 30 seconds that day. and if a child had been walking by I think we would have both naturally been like let's just let's wait for that child's pass yeah naturally

but I said this to you at the time that child will walk past devilins has gone but whatever we'll walk past that and see a very sexualized airbrushed photoshoped woman in lingerie and then some like stick thin

mannequins all sexualized to death they're going to walk down the fucking high street on a summer's day and see more male nipples than anything ever, you know. And it's the most extraordinary misogyny that comes from women. And it's like a really specific breed that I guess come for you in the context of what you're doing. And I would really like to talk to you about if you've had these thoughts, if you've noticed any patterns with these people. Because I don't know if it's misogyny.

I don't know if it's jealousy. I don't know if it's their own insecurity. I don't know. and I wonder if you've ever like speculated or had any thoughts or got to the bottom of like why you think they do this? I do think about it a lot like when those were coming through

like I'm lucky and unlucky but I get to see I honestly think about 2% of my direct messages because there are so many I don't see any of them but like obviously in that 2% that I do see some are good and some are bad but when when those were happening

in the comments and stuff I was like this is extremely interesting and worth the conversation. So I was talking to whoever I was talking to you were talking about it, my partner about it. And I was, I was thinking, why, why do you think they've landed there? Because their opinion is valid, like they've landed where they've landed. I do wonder why.

I think jealousy is a difficult one because, like I said, we all experience jealousy as a human emotion. We'd rather we didn't, but we all do. Underlying, potentially, not jealousy of like me and the way I look, but I think jealousy of the confidence that I'm exuding in that exact moment. We all wish we were confident. Truth is I'm not that confident. Like day to day, every single, you know, in that moment, yeah, I did it.

I smashed it. Misogyny, again, we're completely taught forever that we should, on some levels, be respectful and modest. And don't call attraction to yourself like that. Like, don't do it. But yeah, it's a weird one. I think that's spot on that. I think it's a good old mix of, you know, those people. through no fault of their own feeling horrendous in their body

and like they can't even show their body after their partner in a lot of cases, never mind actually be that confident in public and it hurts to see someone so fully comfortable in their own skin and it does induce feelings of jealousy, like of course it does and then obviously that's mixed in with like nice old dose of misogyny as well. I wonder if Kate Maher had done it, if somebody size zero had done it whether it would evoke the same reaction

because I think like what we've been exposed to like I can't stress enough like how hypersexualised all the images that we saw as kids are you know do you remember Lysenza like I used to go Lysenza after school and like the chicks I mean they had big boobs but they were really thin right?

We used to buy hot pants and knickers from Lascenza when we were 11 and 12 and they used to say daddy's girl and sugar baby and what was like we didn't understand it but it was sold to us so we bought it yeah of course now I think back my mum did my laundry why did she not think okay these are not appropriate for you but at the time it was sort of just yeah we had the playboy um oh playboy yeah why do we have playboy t-shirts and that i haven't

got fuck i haven't got boobs and yet it's this playboy across my tiny little child nipples but that's actually wild and i and i think it's such a challenge that what you're doing is it it's so much more empowering than what we were exposed to before being daddy's girl or fucking you know like it's haunting isn't it all of that like all of the even the licenza bras like I still got one at home

lot like with the fecant I already had big things what's he doing with this ridiculous padding and it's like we're so hypersexualized as children and obviously then women are told that we're asking for it when god forbid something happens which unfortunately statistically it probably will through no fault of our own but it's really interesting to me now that you have created and I actually want to talk to you about the work element of this

but you have created an incredible platform that is women only it does make you feel more safe than you feel anywhere else and yet somehow you're vilified way more than you would be if you were a model in the Las Max if you were a glamour model you know doing shoots for men or if you were a runway model wearing you know fucking nothing it's like because and I've seen this with a few creators who have platforms curves for a start but also platforms for women they do seem to receive the most trolling and it I it really distresses

me it really distresses me yeah I do I wonder why I'd love to know why it's it's a weird it's a weird space that we sit in and why why does it attract that like real hatred from some people see not everyone but there are some people who aggressively hate the style of content and what,

essentially the message that I guess we push strong hatred it's not just a this isn't for me I don't like it's like you are doing something disgraceful

it's like I'm not I know I'm not but some people see it that way but like putting intentions aside I guess I'd like to know that the I'd like to know

the impact that it has on you the negativity and the trolling, right? It's trolling. Yeah, it's difficult. I think I'm affected by trolling. Yeah.

Way more than, like, I think you would be, like, I know how you deal with it, because you talk about it all the time. Your response is normally, like, I'm going to prove you wrong, even stronger. Like, I'm going to go in, I'm going to DM you back. Like, I would never.

I'd voice note people back again. Yeah, I think you're crazy. You're not being your voice like you live for it. Who send you rude to you. messages. I'm like, call, Dave, let's go. I want to chat. I'm full of talk. See, I couldn't have that conversation because it would upset me too much, which is why I don't. It's so sad, because I used to engage with my DMs so much. I would, I'm not exaggerating, spend four plus hours a day replying to beautiful people who would message me. Small things like, where's your

mug from? Or, oh my God, you helped with this, or any, any level of it I would reply. Sometimes I'd reply long essays, just talking to people. but I decided to stop like I consciously decided to like withdraw from my own DMs about a year and a half ago because I was finding the negative ones just too overwhelming

not that they were like there wasn't hundreds or thousands yeah just the way they would get me in a sore spot it was like it was crippling for me like I would cry about it whereas you'd be like fuck you what the hell you talk about but I haven't always been like that

I haven't the DMs I used to, not the DMs, the comments that I used to get on the Daily Mail made me want to die. Like I did not, I know, but I forget you get that. I did not want to be alive when I was like 17 or 18 because of what they said and you're right, it's always, I actually am upset on with that bit

because it's always in the sad spots and it's always in the bits that hurt the most. But the stuff that hurts is the stuff that maybe we think they're right about. Because we all have our own insecurities. And I have learned, it's not that I want to prove these people wrong and it's not that I want to fight with these people, it's that I need,

I need to remember that they're . Because, I mean, I'm sorry, I know it's a really bad word, but I gave all of my power to these people. And I was 17. Yeah. How could they do that? Yeah, how can you sleep at night?

Genuinely, how can you sleep at night? It's evil. Having called a child that you don't know, fat and ugly, and told that she needs a smack, or she needs whatever, you know what I mean? And the things people would say, they weren't that bad.

They weren't, you know, I remember someone writing once that I had a face only a mother could love and I just I know but I honestly I wanted to die when I read that and I still it still haunts me like absolutely haunts me and it took me such a long time to learn that I not even that I like I was pretty but like or that I had a face that somebody else could love but like that what they were saying was just it was nothing to do with me it didn't matter what I actually looked like or who loved my face or whatever it was I had to rationalise with myself how truly awful these people are.

And I'm a massive empath. I believe so much in love and forgiveness and seeing the best in people. But sometimes you have to call a spade a spade. And it's just like, if you're going to do that to a kid, there's something wrong with you. And I can't help you. And it's not my fucking job to help you. Go back to your miserable fucking life and have a look at yourself.

Like look in the mirror and ask if you're worthy of love. You're not from me. But now I just feel with my DMs. It's just like, it's not that I want to be right. And like you said earlier, someone can have an opinion and that's absolutely fine. But it's like, do you have to do this? Do you have to do this? Why have you done this?

Why, are you okay? Probably not. Jess Megan says it. Happy people don't talk shit about other people on the internet. When you think of the most inspiring person you know, what are they doing? They're not DMing Nelly to say, think of the children. Like they're out, just living their fucking lives. I hate that you've been pushed out of your own space.

I know, that's... It's so sad because speaking to people is so important and the amount that I, like, speak to people, it was beautiful, it was amazing, the conversations were meaningful. When I meet people, it's always so meaningful and, like, just lovely. But I just, because I couldn't cope with the punches, I just had to step away.

And I almost wanted to announce it. I didn't, and just be like, look, by the way, don't ever waste it. you DMing me because I don't see them because I feel like that's harsh sometimes people just need to offload but the thought of right now there are tens of thousands of unanswered messages in my DM box is heartbreaking but I know if I scroll through 100 I'll find one that tells me to jump off a bridge and I just can't put myself through that which like you said it's so sad it is it is sad I mean but you have to you know find your own boundaries and respect that so that's what you have to do but it is

it's like painful that that has to be the reason that you you know stopped engaging you not stopped engaging but you know doing what made you happy I still spend hours replying to comments and things like that. And with the comments I always find

if I come across a bad one they're never quite as painful as the essay that someone sent you about why what I'm doing is damaging for people can we like can you explain like what sort of messages you do get like because you say it when we spoke about doing this episode like you don't I don't think people understand

what trolling really is because what I had was like classic trolling it's like you've got to face any other than I'm like stunning so original love that for you Mikey 02499 very classic trolling fake account stupid comment yeah to you probably like just it's ridiculous like I get the same too I get the like you're a fat ugly cow I'm like okay it's to me I don't even read it like it's nothing the ones that hurt like you said are the ones that somehow they they've touched on a sore sport and it's they've hit an insecurity and you're like oh my god yeah like with the the whole think of the children thing that like devastated me for like a full two hours until i bought some sense but i was like the thought that i could be damaging children is horrific

i thought it through i spoke it through and realized actually that's not what i'm doing but for that brief time where I let that thought in I was inconsolable I was like what have I done do I need to delete it and tell Instagram to remove me because they can convince you that you are a terrible person but it's funny because trolling like we think of it as like trolls

like Gremlin's under a bridge they're not real people I try not to call it trolling even though it is what it is but it does it dehumanises these people but actually the people sending these messages Yes, they might have fake usenames and often they don't sometimes they're just public which is very brave but

they're real people they're normal people and what I find hard to like think about is they're probably good people I know we probably think differently like think they're cunts which in no I agree with you the Daily Mail comment is a cunts yes it seems to hit another level on the daily mail

oh yeah but the if you've got an account there's no helping you like sorry this is the thing like they're probably good people who probably help their neighbouring with the shopping and probably see their mum for tea and like they're not these evil trolls that we envision I think it helps us to think like they're just horrible people they live under a bridge and like ugh they're not even part of society but what scares me is that they are and a few times it's happened I've had really serious like spells of trolling and sometimes it's one

person who will try and get them to notice you for months and months and months, which sometimes I do. Like, sometimes they message me every day, something abusive, and then I'll spot it, because they might fall into the 2% that I check that day. And then it's happened to me twice. And I found out, because I clicked on their profile, that they're from Brighton. And that scared me more than I can tell you, because I'm like, I could actually bump into you getting my morning coffee. Like, what would happen? Would you actually throw something? Would you hit me Would I be physically in danger? Because your messages suggest I would.

But one of them, I remember it was aggressive. And it was weirdly about fast fashion, which I, like you guys, I decided to stop working with fast fashion, God, nearly two years ago now. But I did used to. Maybe it wasn't that long ago. But I did. I worked with, like, the big ones that I'm escrowed in PLT. Like, I did.

When I first started doing this as a job, I was like, wow, you want to pay me to wear a dress? Awesome. And I did do it for a few months. But, I mean, quickly, not because of DMs, I realized myself that this is, something I wanted to continue with. It doesn't align with me. So, like, love you, but, like, no thank you anymore. And dissociated myself from those brands pretty quickly. But there was a girl, and again, she was from Brighton, and she would DM me essays every day, just telling me I am destroying the planet, and I am using slave labour, and I am responsible for the world dying.

And I didn't reply it, because I never replied to them. But I saw them, and they had accumulated. By the time I'd seen them, I think I read seven in a row. And it was so much anger. It was so much hate. She obviously had a cause. She had a passion. Yeah. She directed it all at me.

Yeah. And then she found my depop. Because I sell my clothes on Deepup all the time. I think it's a great way to give clothes a new home. Yeah. And then she started messaging me on there. And I was like, oh, you're really on this. You really want this to happen.

You want something to happen here. Yeah. And I didn't block her because I also have a rule. never to engage in any form, even block, because I don't ever want anyone to think I've seen it. Most likely is I haven't seen it because it's probably not been even glanced at. So I knew that she existed.

And then since I knew she existed, I knew once a week I would be able to check and see probably four or five new messages. I don't think it was that many. I think I might be exaggerating because of how traumatic it felt at the time. But I remember after a while, I googled her. I really was like, is this a genuine threat?

Googled her, she went to uni here. She lived not far from me. She was just a, and she looked normal. She was clearly normal. She had friends in her pictures. She was a normal, regular human. Yeah. But just had this misdirected anger.

And I left it. She didn't reply. She stopped messaging me. And I remember a year after her last message, like some lunatic I am, I think it was about a year, maybe not that long. I did, and I've never replied to anyone. Like, someone who sent me hate,

I have never applied. apart from this one girl and I just messaged and said hi I did see your messages they scared me so much I felt so threatened by them I actually did stop working with fast fashion but not because of your abuse yeah you can't do this to people this was the worst month of my life when I knew you existed because I was genuinely scared to leave the house yeah but she and it's weird because after that she did reply and then I blocked her and that was that she nice with the reply yeah and she said oh my God, I'm so sorry

I have mental health issues I've been going through this I've experienced this and I didn't reply to that I thought I've told you what I need to tell you I didn't want to reply but like that's that chapter close I didn't have to let you know how much you affected my life because you might be doing it to other people

honestly get upset thinking about it because I was fearful every day and I just thought you're my age we could see each other and what happens if we do because I'll know your face and you'll know mine do I run? Do I call the police? I don't know. And that's one point I thought about

reporting her to the police. But yeah, she worked for the uni newspaper and that kind of thing. I was like, you are a human, you're not a troll. Maybe I feel bad now for calling them cots, but... They do cunty things. They do, yeah. And you know what? Okay, so do you. So do I.

So does Alex. So does that guy, so that everybody, everybody does shitty stuff. And I think there's something that I find very interesting about, this isn't trolling, you're right, I don't know what... This is abused. this is abuse. The forums, the DMs, it's abuse.

And I think a lot of it probably stems from jealousy, stems from misogyny. But fundamentally, it's a lot of moral superiority. And I really want these people to wonder how much better they really are than us if this is how they're spending their time. Because you might be using a bunch of cotton buying something, I don't know, you could be doing this bad thing

and you could have eaten a chicken, not alive. And we've got to spread it and it's like eating a live. good. On Sundays, any Sundays. Cancelor. You know, we all... Live chicken, Jesus. We all do, you know, we all do stuff that isn't fucking great, right?

Yeah. But we are held to a crazy high standard on Instagram. And I feel like, you know, the language that you've used the last couple of times saying, you know, this is what this person did. They were telling you off for fast fashion. This while I was telling you off for something. And it's like, they do get up on their high horses and they think they're so much better than, you. you and maybe that's because of the misogyny thinking that they're smarter than a model or maybe they think that you're asking for abuse because in the same way that they think women who are

walking down the street late at night are because you you put yourself out there and I think that's a really common thing is everyone's like if you don't like it get off social media and it's like no no we need to really address there as an epidemic here and people are misplacing their superiority their anger all of it and it will have this will kill people this will kill. It has. It has and it will continue to do this and not just creators but if you get into the habit of doing like that how are you talking around your children? How are they

talking on social media? And the reaction for so long was always to me and it's easy with the don't check the you know don't check the comments on the daily mail which I just you know you don't and that's fine and you're not walking into that room but these people are walking into your house and they find you yeah and

that's what and the answer for you isn't to get off social media because forgive me for saying this you are the least offensive creator, I have ever fucking followed. Like, all you do is lovely content. You vacate, you buy flowers, you go for wholesome horse

on the beach, and you literally have the calmest and warmest and loveliest looking life. And, like, you walk into your home and it's exactly the same as exactly what you think it would be. It's just, it's, like, it smells of vanilla, and it's just, like, it's

just the loveliest home. And I can't work out what it is about you that annoys people so much. Well, it's not me, is it? It's people, there's nothing wrong with me. Yeah, yeah. But it's, you do, you let it get to you. I had it, it's funny you mentioned forums.

I had a really interesting experience with these forums last year. So I didn't know they exist. I was so late to the game. Did you not? No, didn't, didn't know. I honestly, I was so oblivious in my lovely, happy. I just thought I got a hate in my DM. It's like a forum.

Oh my God. So I, I'm friends with a YouTuber girl. who also lives around here. She's lovely and she would often talk quite openly and honestly about the views she would get. She was a massive, massive target

of it, especially on these forums. So I was like, why are you talking about? I'm going to find out. Yeah, exactly. You know where it's going. Found her page and just spent the next 10 minutes reading.

I hate like I've never read. When I was reading it, it wasn't even about me, it was about her. I know her. I know she's a lovely person. She's never, like, she's never done anything offensive. or wrong. She's just a woman who exists on the internet. And I couldn't believe the things

people were saying about her. I couldn't get over it. So after 10 minutes, honestly, I sat there my heart rate was pumping. I thought, oh my God, there's evil in the world. We have a problem. There's real evil in the world. The lengths of these essays, they wrote poems about how much they hate her. Poems, that big. That rhymed. They rhymed. Someone had spent days writing a poem that rhymed about how much they hate this girl. And I was mortified. But obviously, because I was on the fucking

forum, I was then typing in other creators that I liked. Having a search around is like, God, if they hate her, what do they think about blah, blah, blah. And I spent about half an hour this day just absorbing this hate. Just absorbing it. I shut them my laptop, I was like, oh

my God. I know most people would Google their own name. I never would. I would never and will never put my own name into one of those forums. It probably exists. I will never know about it. It's like you check your DMs. I couldn't.

If I were to read, I'm sure I'm on the forums. It's just a, whatever the word is. Like it's most likely that exists. I will never know about it though. Good for you. My friends will also never know about it. And if they do, they will never tell me. So at least I've got that wall of protection.

I know I'll never read it. But I knew this girl used to read her own. And I thought, God save you how you do that. I just don't know. but what the weirdest thing happened after I read all this stuff I would obviously continue to watch and support these women online but then weird little things would creep into my brain and I would start viewing them ever so slightly differently

so one of the comments was blah blah she must be such a snob she's never ordered a takeaway in her life and when I read it I thought stupid weird thing to pull out but okay and then next time I watched her I thought oh are you a snob have I been have misinterpreted you maybe maybe you are a snob and then for the next few weeks I never went back on the forums but I noticed my thinking of these lovely women was getting changed

and I started to see them in a different way myself and I had to reality check myself so much we're like oh my God that half hour that you consumed altered your thinking on these women and I had to I spoke to my partner about it

for hours I was like I need to go back in time and unread that and that was half an hour of being on them not engaging with it just reading yeah personally for me i'm i'm very done with this like oh we just pretend it won't exist and don't give them the like that it's it's huge i know women who have been suicidal because of these threats i've had the worst conversations with women i actually barely fucking know about them wanting to die and and and i i can never forgive these people i can understand no i can forgive them i can forgive them but i i i wish i could

really explain it to these people to show them what they're really doing? They have no idea they don't understand the impact they don't because they hope that writing all this spewy evil stuff they want that person to read it that's their aim they want them

and then they want them to feel self-conscious upset and sad and better themselves in their eyes obviously there's nothing that needs improving but that will never happen no one will read a hate threat of themselves and think I need to make some changes no No, but what changes, I mean, on a realistic level, what changes, what changes happen? Of course not.

They can't, you know, like the things that annoy people about, about me or you or you, what do we do? You know, okay, your friend who's perceived as a snop, what's the answer? She goes and orders loads of takeout and everyone says, well, she's a bit, fuck it, you know, how lazy she's, she never cooks. If she goes and orders a load of takeout, they'll go, it's working, she's seen it, she's here, keep going, keep going. But then in a minute, they'll tell her that she's lazy. it's awful it's evil there's no there's no resolution to it you're right they do want people to see it don't they they want the creators to see their own four words there is yeah i just i was so mortified that i had subconsciously actually been affected by it i was genuinely drawn in to

the hate threads i mean i was not there going yeah good fucking point she is a cow but i was reading it even though i was horrified reading it i realized that it is easy to get sucked into and that's how these normal women then or men and women they become these trolls that we demonize like it's easy and that's why it's so scary because before you know it you've made an account you check it every day yeah and you are you're just as bad you're there you might even write something yourself yeah it's not the side of the content so not only do they watch you but then they watch what everybody's saying about you so it's that's what i started trying to do not trying found myself wanting to do i would then watch her next video and be like i'm bet you they've discussed this today in the fore. Yeah. Yeah. Thank God I never went on it again, but I felt myself wanting to go on it again. Yeah. But you know what? And I'm going back to like you bumping into that girl who trolled you. Like, you know, you're bumping into her around here. Like, I can guarantee you that the person that would be most mortified in that interaction would be her. Yeah. Because that is a direct. It's like, it's like holding, someone holding up a mirror to you and saying,

seeing your behavior, like to actually meet you in person, like to see you in person. Like, it's just like, how embarrassing is that? How mortifying is that? Here's this woman, this woman that I have never met. I don't know. I just watch her online. I'm seeing her in real life and I am going on, you know, I'm going on forums to talk badly about her and say shit about her.

Like, how mortifying is that? You know, right? That's like being a fan girl, but the opposite. It's so embarrassing. I'm embarrassed to be a fan girl. You know what I mean? I'm embarrassed because I don't want to ever tell anyone that I've given them that much of my attention

if I really love someone I'm not going to tell them this too much too keen but for her she's got to come and be like I really hate you which is way worse it's so amazing it's just mortifying if it was me I would die I would be like I need to change my life because this is so mortifying I like to think that if that was ever happen

and I know it won't because this happened with three people it wouldn't happen but I like to thinking that if that would ever happen you'd want to go up to them and be like, huh, it's me. So, you're going to say it to my face? I would never, I'd run the opposite direction. Why can't? Like, I sound like that girl, they're mean girls.

But again, not to, like, sort of minimalise everything that you do in your life, but it genuinely does just seem so fucking nice. Why can't we just be happy for Nellie that she's having a nice life? It annoys me so much that you, that I get why I get shit. I really do.

You know what I mean? I'm like, fair. fair where I open a conversation I put out you know strong angry opinions and sometimes I'll be a bit of a twat but mostly like you're just making cake but I think I think making cake in love

my body like why hate me but I think actually that's testament to the fact that it doesn't matter who you are it doesn't matter what you do if people want something to feel negative about so they'll find it yeah they'll find it yeah they'll find the negative in your

positive that's why when I read these threads about these women on these forums I was like I've never in the I've watched these women for years never in my life of watching and engaging with these women's lives and content have I thought one of the things that has been written down here because it doesn't come to me I just know this is a nice video have it on in the background cool nice new dress like it's it's just surface level it's enjoyable content which is why content exists but yeah these some people they look for the hate they they find it and like you said I can live

my life here, and people will find the hate. Yeah. It is what it is. But I do think it's important to note as well that this isn't a new phenomenon. Like it's the digitalisation of it is, but this has been around for the long, like, celebrities. We love to gossip about them and always in a negative way. Haven't they put on way? Haven't they, you know, isn't our hairstyle awful?

You know, like tabloids. Like this isn't a new thing, the concept of it. It's just, it's on steroids now because it's so accent. and the fact that celebrities and influences and people can see it. Yeah. Whereas, I mean, you could see it in the papers, but now you can see real people like discussing you and, you know, pulling your life apart. But I think it's a sense of community. I think we love to gossip.

Well, humans do. Humans do. It is human nature. Yeah. And it's the funny thing. Humans naturally will build bonds by gossiping. We learn how to regulate that. school we learn what's acceptable and what's not

what's unkind and what's kind and then as adults I mean I bitched to my best friend about I can't think what but like it happens you do it it's off the cuff remarks you say them to your best friend in a safe space and you continue and they're not hurting anyone no you're not hurting anyone like I slag off one best friend to the other best friend

and the day later I told Emily I didn't like your shoes at the weekend she'd be like cool fuck you I'll be like sweet let's get a coffee like it's casual it's day to day interactions it's normal but when it's so concentrated online and a human is never supposed to receive that much feedback positive or negative a single human being naturally is supposed to interact with a group of people their family and they're ones who they stay close with so they're friends

throwing thousands of people into a mix a human can't absorb their information we don't know how to deal with that much feedback positive or negative it's just not in our biology to be able to cope with it, which is why we get anxiety and panic attacks and we're overwhelmed by seeing these words in this writing, because we're not supposed to have thousands of people telling us something. We're just not, which is why our brains don't cope with it well. Do you think because, because, unfortunately, I've been exposed to so many trolls, I suppose I think like a troll, and my instinctive reaction to that would be, well, do you think they would say,

or do you think there would be an argument for you not doing this job? Because when people, people hear that I am not so condoning this but this is something that I've experienced when you say that brain humans aren't supposed to I can't cope with yes people go okay well then you go yeah leave then leave yeah if that ever been a consideration for you do you know what I if I'm going through a bad time with with anything like when this girl from Brighton and these people like I thought might run into I thought you know what there's a shelf life for me doing this because I can't do it forever I will reach a limit at some point yeah but that's why I've done things like don't engage in DMs I will never see one

of these forums speak to people about it and if something slips through the net learning how to cope with it but yeah you're right if I were if I was took your approach and read these things I wouldn't I would I'd be finished in a month but that's yeah when when people you know talk nastily about celebrities and then think oh we're allowed to they're their public property they are celebrities we can say what we want they do genuinely forget that they're humans which is such a cliche thing to say but i was thinking that when you talk about you voice know people you're just humanizing yourself you're saying hey i'm real over here what you just said hurt me so i'm going to let you know that but they don't want to see you as human so they won't but sometimes it ruins their

fun as well it ruins their fun yeah to to to have giggles until somebody giggles and shits yeah exactly or to even like feel a glimmer of empathy like that ruins their fun they don't want that which is that about your anxiety earlier

and I mean it makes a lot of you know I know you said you know it's come from a long time but it does make a lot of sense that you feel anxious even to go out and I do feel like Brighton Hove is smaller perhaps than London

I don't know if yeah I don't know if everybody threatens me in London so I'm like if you follow me or if you're just a man I don't know always on the toes but I suppose here like it is much more of a sense of like community and stuff

I don't want to come back to it again but I'm just going to say it for a third time you don't you're so unoffensive I can't I can't rationalise how much trolling you get I can't but also you know when people who aren't happy

see people that they perceive to be happy it's a huge trigger and it makes them feel like shit so that probably plays into it as well We all feel that. We all experience that emotion. When my friends are on a night out and they're posting these drunken stories, I'm so upset, I'm like, I wish that could be me.

Yeah, it makes you feel bad. I'm so jealous of you. And I'm in, like, if I was horrible, I'd be like, fuck you guys, you're having a nice time without me. Yeah. I don't because I hold back. But it's just that, but in a different scenario. It's just a human emotion.

It is the worst thing. I hate feeling jealous. And I really have to, like, work on myself and my, like, and I guess I've done a lot of coaching around my thoughts, but I really hate feeling jealous. It's a horrible emotion. But it's real and it's normal and it's a horrible one to sit with

because I'm really good at clocking when I feel jealous now. Like I'm very good at being like this is a feeling of jealousy and you do that sort of sad sit and you just think this is just so uncomfortable. Yeah.

But you also have to, sorry you have to completely take it to your problem. Absolutely. Like I think that's really important and it's like their fault they're having fun. It's really quick.

And I always have to consider intention and I feel jealous so infrequently now because I really catch myself and I make myself take so much personal responsibility for it because it's just like why am I putting this on to my friends? I'll tell you what actually

I could be jealous of you because you're like even walking into this house and I bet you you felt it as well you're like fuck it's tidy in here isn't it so nice and instinctively I'm like oh god I wish I could be like this and you do get that jealous

and then I'm like but I'm not and that's not Nellie's fault I want to know what's funny please tell me you've got a secret I know. When I walk into my friend's homes and they're messy, I feel jealous that they don't feel the need to clean every day. I'm like, you're so relaxed. Your life is so chill.

You've just got things on the floor and good for you because that's normal. Yeah, you're not judging it. You're just like, yeah, you can see the upside. It's so funny. But you have to sit with yourself. You do. You do. And actually, things like trolling, like bitching, gossiping,

it's an easy way to alleviate the feeling of jealousy. Very quick alleviation as well. Yes. But it doesn't. actually go anywhere yeah it just it like yeah it bruise and it festers and this like negativity all builds up so you're not actually serving yourself and it's true that you have to you have to sit with it and like work through it and allow yourself to feel it because if you don't it just it builds up in in other areas and people become little forum grumlins could you forgive people

who've told you if somebody came to you instead I'm really sorry totally could you yeah yeah I'd love them too, which is my downfall, because fuck them. Why should, why should I want that? No, I feel the same. I would love, I would love them to see how and why, what they did hurt me, and then move up from it. Sweet, everyone comes out a winner, we're all good, but it's not going to happen. You know, I think people have all, because I've always had, people make me in comments

about me, people have always said, oh, you just, you know, get offline. But like now, it's not an option. And what people are saying to you, when they say, well, if you can't take it, get out, what they're saying is lose your job, lose your job. which is completely unrealistic because these are the same people that if they were having a problem at work if everybody was abusing them at work

they'd go to HR and if HR just went look babies if you can't handle it you've got to go what do I get redundancy no you're out fuck it and good luck why did you come to the interview? Yeah exactly what were you expecting wearing that little suit and that lanyard

obviously obviously this is going to happen and it's like it's a weird thing and people still treat social media and influencing like it's the most vacuous vapid stupid little job for silly little narcissistic women. Look at the name we've been given. Influences.

It's a horrible word. We don't walk around with our wand influencing people and things. By the bitch. I hate it. Whenever people ask me what I do, we're always, always lie and I just say I'll work in social media. I'm not about to sit there and say, I'm an influencer.

Do you follow me? It's a horrible term because... I say journalist. Because it's great. See, I wish I could say that. Do. Who's checking? When I worked for the charity, oh my God, I'd love it.

Oh, I work for a charity, I'd love a charity. Yeah, it's great. We help bullying. You would get a lot more respect for that, though, than saying I'm an influencer. Also, that's why I loved it so much. However, the amount of women's, the amount of women that you've helped by your platform is probably equal to, if not more than, you know. Yeah.

Actually, I don't know I'm presuming that. No, Adela, you haven't, like, I, the constant, like, belittling of influencers. You know, actually, because what I've said, was probably really insulting now with hindsight because when I say you have a very nice life you have been even like for me before we became friends for my sister for so many women that I know I we cannot underestimate the diversification of our feet and seeing somebody as beautiful as you unapologetically but you don't you know you have shown off your scars and your stretch marks and you're not a size zero and you've been you've you know you've shared so

much of your body with the internet in the most generous and lovely way because it's genuinely help people so much and i find it i do find it fascinating how belittled this is a career is when the proof is in the pudding like you are actively helping hundreds of thousands of women yeah it's funny well whenever my favorite type of content to make is obviously organic non-sponsored i do very few sponsored posts because they are without the meaning to be the least authentic because they are physically sponsored. There's no denying you're being paid to do it. But that's why whenever, like, I love creating stuff.

And all I'm thinking, when I'm either putting a reel together or a story together or any form of content, the back of my mind, I'm just thinking, who is this helping? Is this helping? How is this helping? And then when I know I've made something that's extremely helpful, I know it's going to do well.

And that feeling of like, oh, I'm helping people. I mean, yeah, some people will call me a slut for doing it. Who cares? but like it's the nicest feeling in the world knowing you're influencing, hate the word, but at least in a good way. Totally.

It's a great feeling, but yeah, the time influencer is just terrible. I think something that is really interesting is the misconception or willful ignorance around content creation, influencing whatever you want to call it. Like the fact is we shouldn't be embarrassed

for what we do and the fact that we go to a doctor and we literally lie, just the same journalist's bullshit. but you know because we're embarrassed because there is such negative associations and you said at the beginning of the episode that you

just work all the time and I imagine and again I've got my troll hat on I imagine people are going to look and be like well what she does doesn't work but she's got such a lovely life she buys flowers and she takes pretty pictures and she makes cakes and whatever and I think that's something that I battle with with myself all the time

that's like justification that what I do is a job and my fiance, Alex, has to say to me all the time, I was like, you're really busy, you're really busy, you're like, this is work, you're working harder than me, and I'm like, no, I'm not, I'm just scrolling on Instagram, because that's the way that everybody

else speaks to you, right? Like, every single man who's ever told me, has always said, go and get a proper job. Absolutely. And I would just like to talk to you about your proper job, like how, what this work entails, why, but also why, and actually I just want to preface this thing

by saying, it's no one's business, if you want to be a fucking kept woman if you want to go and work in the co-op or if you want to go and work for Deloy it doesn't matter what you do it's fascinating to me that people are so judgmental about this job and it's like you don't work card you can't complain you can't do this

you can't say Jesus Christ why not how many of these women get home from work and they go or they arrive in the office and they're just like oh god traffic was murder on the way in and everyone listens to them and they're like oh god I've got stuck on traffic job well, we'll get a fucking proper job and then we'll talk about the traffic

and it's like, what's the problem? What's the problem? Why do we do this? I feel like there's, there are different types of existing online and the thing is there are people who will post four sponsored stories and two sponsored posts a day of car fresheners, car air fresheners

and slender tone tummy things and bullshit that no one cares about. They themselves also won't care about it and make a shit ton of money. That does exist and that is also influential, What we do, I like to think, is slightly different, but we are the same job title. It's also making money from sponsored content on social media. It is seen as a, it's a very daily male thing, isn't it?

Whenever an influence in it, the comments will go, like you said, get a proper job, what does she know, no life experience. It's difficult because I feel like I've arrived where I am now because of a huge chunk of life experience like obviously I've had many proper jobs whatever that means and it's it's funny because I I have management but I also manage a huge amount of my workload myself like you said people think it's pictures flowers and cakes but that's about 15% of the actual like hours of work that I do and a lot of it is obviously like endless emailing endless admin there's so much organisation there's so much stuff that makes it a valid proper job as it were not that it needs

validation but like all of my friends and partner will say the same thing like I work a crazy amount of hours and I work seven days a week and actually you are always working because you always have to be engaged online and and with what's happening and world events and all this like you you do not turn off there's there's no such thing like if we go on holiday We'll take holiday photos. We'll do holiday content. Like, it doesn't stop. But I also totally get why they think that and why they say that.

And not that I agree with it or believe it, but it's also true because we do take pictures. And I do buy flowers and I do make cakes and make content out of it. And you don't have to prove it to anyone. That's something that I have to, like, really sit within myself. And I get annoyed that I, I think you said earlier, Like, you prove people wrong. It's like, that's never my intention because I can't do that.

And I think one of the most powerful things is accepting that I can't, if you want to look at my life, it'd be like, well, that looks fucking easy. Yeah. That's your end up guilty of presenting an easy life as well. Every now and again, I'll do it like, this is what I'm doing today, and I'll list my admin and my emails, but I do that probably like once a month, maximum. I don't share what this really involves because I want to make people,

content that people enjoy but also makes people feel good. You're working through my emails doesn't making anyone feel that great and so I tend not to post about it. That makes sense, yeah. I understand that. It's an easy sort of insult I guess to throw at someone who's your title is influencer.

Yeah. I just can't understand why we prioritise like that we undermine women so much. So much. And you know the really funny thing is, is you're undermined so much for doing this job. Get a proper job. Get a proper job. The minute you fucking monetise this and make it, according to the taxman,

a proper job, then you're a sell out for doing ads, and everybody hates the ads. That's the thing that all the forums hate, that's the thing that people hate, you always do the ads, you always do the ads, you always do the ads, I'm like, you told me, not you, but, you know, one, the thing that forums hate the most, the thing that trolls hate the most, it's women making money.

And I think this is really, this comes up time and time again, in my DMs in the things I've seen, I have a friend who is literally fighting stage four cancer and they hate her for doing the ads and I'm like right so she stops working

that's what you want you hate the ads so that's how we make this money it's so true because you think about like male content creators and they're like take a YouTuber's they're all like so cool and creative and like video whizzes you know

and it's exciting content and then like female YouTubers it's like go grab a latte and like do your nails And online with, you know, Bradley Simmons, if he does, like, sick clouds, everyone's like, yeah, get it, buddy, like doing Hew and whatever.

But then if women did Hewle, they'd be like, you fucking, how could you, you know, but I'm just like, right, but what do you want? What do you want here? I put a thing on my Instagram yesterday, saying if you could have a dream job for like a week, what would you have? So many people said influencer. I was like, but the fact is, is they haven't done it for whatever reason.

And the reason is, it's a lot. you don't just get look at you to you know half a million followers you don't just get that that's and it's embarrassing and it's hard and it's gruelling

and you have to fucking put yourself out there and it's hard and no one does it putting yourself out there I think that's one of the hardest hardest things about it especially me

I think people would think like you put a lot of yourself out there which I absolutely do you you've seen near every crevice of my body at this point there's not much I don't show you but clearly that there is a lot I don't show you because we're still not people still aren't understanding

what it is we do and why what we do is actually valid and helpful and a proper job yeah pay taxes it it's hard work again not that we need to validate it but it does sometimes feel like that a really healthy habit I think I mean literally me included sometimes I find myself watching YouTube videos or reading stories and in the back of my mind I don't like it I'm not enjoying this person's content maybe they annoy me that's okay it's so cool for me to watch vinegar actually you're annoying me today I'm going to watch someone else's

I don't even have to thumbs down the video like there's just no need if you can clock with yourself like actually I'm not enjoying this yeah I'm finding myself getting wound up upset jealousy is arising maybe it is maybe it isn't but I'm just you're irritating me because that's what I feel

sometimes I've watched them in the story I'm like oh you're so irritating I probably love them nine times out of ten but for whatever reason that day I'm in a bad moon and I found their ad irritating it literally happens it's fine have a spill time yeah yeah exactly just move on

but that is fine and okay we should do that but it happens in other areas I was saying to you earlier when you're watching the TV and you're like when I'm in a bad mood

and I'm watching the TV I'm like ugh and I just have to go I'm like excuse me I'm going to bed and I just have to leave because it's too annoying

but it's interesting that with TV I don't make it the TV's not the TV's fault fuck you TV but when it's the influencer I'm like fuck you Nelly because we think we know them we think they're our friend like I'll tell my friend if she's annoying me

but we are friends online like it's annoying yeah it's difficult it is difficult it is and I do think that we before we end on something positive but before that I just want to say that um like your friend that you talked about

who has stage four cancer and she gets just torn to pieces I mean they even contacted the charity cancer charity that she works for and said she isn't a good you know she's not a good role model and you know she shouldn't be and i just think that that you know you were saying before like can you forget like could you forgive them and people say that and i just think that has always stuck with me like how you could ever ever pass comment and

they know that she looks at the forums and they and they talk about her like knowing that she looks at it and i just think that that is the most disgusting lowest thing and for that really reason like I will never take any notice and I hope you don't take any notice of anything that anyone says on those things because it's just fucking vile and I do hope that anyone listening today maybe who is on those forums just at least reflects on it like what am I doing on that am I actually serving myself that's the thing is it bringing you anything because most likely it's just dragging you down and even though you might enjoy it in the split second that you read it or comment that will not sit well with you for the rest of the day the rest of the week

like overall in life it's bringing you into an evil space that you can leave even though it's very addictive and i've experienced how addictive it can be from then wanting to check it yeah you do have the power to remove yourself from that situation yeah and even if you then redirect that hate at the tv like you said hate something else but just don't hate real people yeah and then i imagine that you'll find your lives to like... Yeah, they'll be happier. Much more enriching.

So much more time and like energy to spend on like positive stuff. Like actually... But when I've done it before, like when you... I obviously follow and unfollow people on Instagram all the time. It's normal. This never like needs to be like offensive. And when people aren't following me, I'm never offended. But you can forget someone exists.

It's so funny. You create your community online. And if you choose to remove someone, so if I unfollow someone, in a week's time you will forget who they are like not who they are but you you are so removed from their life that you don't think about them anymore and it's such an easy thing to do like if you unfollow someone who constantly annoys you they won't annoy you in a month because you won't see them yeah it's so easy totally we are in a new world now and I don't although I don't know if I could forgive you know particularly talking about like my friend who's being trolled really

badly and the people who've told you and the people who've told me i don't know if i can forgive them i'm an empath and i sort of can't be fucked to hate anyone so i'm just like no probably like say sorry buy me biscuit i'll get over it yeah but um but i i do think it's really like important that we try and help ourselves as like individuals when we operate online because it isn't a healthy space to get like what you're saying it isn't you know not even on the forums but if you are hate following somebody or if you are being irritated by somebody like i actually don't think it's good for your mental health and if you're following somebody that has living an aspirational life that doesn't make you feel good it just makes you feel annoyed then it's not good for you and

you know and i like following you nelly for me like you like you make me feel so great about my body and like so empowered and like and it makes me appreciate the female form and see beauty and that's what i see in you so your content therefore serves a great purpose for me but if somebody if i was looking at your your content and i didn't see what you were intending and i and i missed your intention and all I saw was a woman who had a nicer looking life than me and a nicer looking body than me and that made me annoyed I'm hurting myself by looking at you and like I think that's a really important thing because we all treat social media like it's the silliest he he he thing and it's like it's actually not you know I don't know how long you spend on your phone every day but I

spend fucking hours I spend the most most of my day on my phone and it's like I have to be aware of you're exposing yourself to you wouldn't walk into a house I don't know with a gas leak so why would you go you know and sit in it all day but you'll look at your phone and there's something poisonous in there and it's really hurting you and you keep looking at it and I think we actually do have to really like

take much more seriously the part that we all play in social media and to pretend that it's just some silly little thing is so dangerous now because it isn't like it you know and and and just tell creators that they have to get off or whatever it just doesn't work like that

No, that's just not how it works. It's like when was the last time you met someone who has no social media at all? Like his husband, Dave, you've only got LinkedIn. It's still something though, LinkedIn. He exists online if someone wanted to find him, they could. It's so rare. I personally don't know anyone other than my grandmas

who didn't have social media. Like even older relatives, their kids set them up of Facebook four years ago. Everyone has it. It's almost a fundamental. part of existing these days yeah so like you said just saying we'll get off it's not it's not possible it's just not for so many people what do you want to keep doing do you know I feel like this like I really like what I do now do you yeah I feel like I'm always sort of like something a bit cliche but I feel like I'm always like evolving content's always changing yeah I'm always finding

inspiration like I don't feel like I've ever gotten to that point where I'm like oh I'm just stuck I'm done now. I might have two weeks where I cannot think of an idea to save my life. Yeah. But I know we're always come back around again. But I just really enjoy like doing this. Like honestly like feeling and seeing the change. Like like meeting people and they say oh my God I wore a bikini and I would have never. I'm like that that's again not to sound like an asshole but that's that's life changing. Yeah. If we I know we grew up in a very toxic era of body image. If we grew up seeing every day

women and bodies and people that we related to we wouldn't have gone through half the shit that we did but we just got unlucky I mean everyone's era's got their different issues but body image alone to feel the change that is making for some people is like just worth doing this forever

yeah it's mega I think you forget that I bet you forget that yeah you do don't you you because I remember at first receiving those messages and being like oh my god yeah Alex said it to me those days he's like you always said when you started doing this that you just wanted to help one person so why do you care what another person thinks because you know you've helped the one and I'm like it's not that fucking simple babe but it is it's easy to forget it all with the trolling isn't it it really is yeah but yeah I mean

and you're like I think that you are made for like I don't know what we call it what do we call it but like content creation don't hate me you are such a good like content and i look forward to your content and i think it's just brilliant so i feel like i feel like you're in the job you're supposed to be in and yeah and you're very clearly helping a lot of people i wish i wish you could i wish you i wish i could i wish everybody could just see the goodness because most these people are so fucking nice and we do have the best jobs in the world really yeah i've got a lovely way we've spent our day. Like, we're so lucky.

Yeah, really nice. But I suppose on the flip side of that, people do need to understand the effect that the comments can have. Yeah. Yeah. We'll get there. We'll get there. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. It's been brilliant. I loved it. Can you come back next time to talk about your boobs? Yeah, we'll be talking about your boobs. Okay, well, your second podcast will also be this one. Okay, let's talk about boobs and cosmetic surgery.

Part two. Yes. Hello. Hello. Hello. So, is it just me? Plus some embarrassing stories. Kid me. I, do know what, this one. I don't even know where this came. Oh, I do know where this came from. I did like work fails on stories to see people's work fails, right? And one, one girl said that she put her poo in a plastic bag, then into the kitchen bin at work. So, I mean, unclear. Lots of questions don't know. But a response, someone responded to this and said, my friend literally just told me how she had to hand pick her unflushable log of a poo out of the toilet wrap it in a bag and carry it in her handbag for the rest of the day before she got home to a bin i am deceased her handbag sorry i went right in there didn't i i gave no warning if she had got mugged on the way home someone stole a handbag

why would you want if it's too big to flush it's too big for your handbag that's all I know like my handbag isn't that big how disgusting it's just this idea of like having to walk home with like

a bag full of your own shit it's just like there's just something so shameful about it it's something that shouldn't be ever yeah yeah because when we think of like a lady lady's handbag we think of like a very discreet little little time for movie but mostly we think

of like a bit of makeup lipstick a compact mirror yeah exactly maybe a magazine oh yeah it maybe um or or a little like a napkin from the bar the night before with a hot man's number written on it yes you know if you're lucky and like a cigarette holder but then alongside that little yes yes and a lighter and alongside that is just a massive fucking steaming shit that you couldn't flush down the office loo. I love women. How did she wrap it up? I don't know, but you know what? Like sometimes you hear of people, you know, like, someone, like, are you hear of stories?

Like someone going past a car accident, they see someone's trapped under a car and they all of a sudden someone like this human, like superhuman strength and they can like lift a car up. You know what I mean? Because of the adrenaline. So I don't think, like, I think maybe this girl's just like running on adrenaline, you know what I mean? like people can do pretty impressive shit but but like but right so it's in water okay so it's gonna be wet right so if she wraps it in tissue paper i'm imagining that she hasn't gone in with a plastic bag into the toilet no you go in with a plastic bag you go in with the plastic bag like you're picking up a dog poo and then what i do is i get it with i put my hand in the bag you know that

bag inside out i put my hand in the bottle i'd pull the poo up onto the the the shelf bit you know and then I just and then tie up the bag. Right. Right, stop, stop, stop. Okay. You're in work, okay? And you go to the toilet at work, okay? And you do a poo that doesn't flush.

Okay, so you're like, so tell me where are you all going to get a plastic bag from, right? Because you don't just have plastic bags, not anymore, just like floating around at work. Okay, so you have to, if you can leave the toilet to go to the kitchen to get a plastic bag,

I say you could probably just leave your poo there. Okay? I'm sorry, I'm not buying this. I don't understand how she managed to wrap it up unless she didn't wrap it up, which is horrific. You know what? I was talking to Alex this morning. Daisy, actually, I have a bone to pick with you

because we've talked about this on the podcast before and I think you've edited it out, which I'm going to take personally. And I'm just going to say it again. And this time, it'll probably get cut out again. But I was talking to Alex this morning, about a moon cup, about moon cups and about, because he was talking, because he was talking, because he was talking about tampons and about the chemicals and about period pants and

and I, and I was talking about the moon cup and I said, babe, I can't have a moon cup, not because I don't want one, but because I've watched myself eat dinner. Like, I know how messy I am as a person and I just know that like, there's just, I'll, I'll, I'll make a mess. And then I was trying to explain to him how it worked. And I was like, I actually don't know if you're in an office environment or like you're in a public loo like i don't know you go to the services or whatever most loos don't have a sink in so am i right in thinking but you take this blood cup out of your vagina and then you have to and then somehow i can tell you if you yes please daisy because in my mind in my mind you're holding your blood cup precariously like a goblet in one hand while you're

trying to pull your trousers up because you can you can leave it in for like eight hours right depending obviously on how heavy heavy or flow is yeah daisy welcome to the podcast, her first words. Thank you. Heavy flow. Heavy flow, number one. I think that my first words were actually, yes, I piss in the shower. So, you know, it's going well for my career.

Daisy Grunt, everyone. So I remember when I first got mine and I had the same thought and then it said like in the instructions, you can take a water bottle in with you. I was like, what the hell? I'm not going to take a water bottle and rinse it over the toilet. Like, that's so embarrassing. So I will just pour it out, wipe it with a tissue, put the tissue in the bin, pop it back in. Okay, okay.

Give it a proper rinse when I'm home. Okay. Yeah, because in my mind, I was going to have to like shimmy my trousers up my bum with not spilling the blood cup and then like just go out in public past all the children. Oh, no, you pour the blood in the tank of the sink. You pour the blood in the toilet. Okay. Okay, well, we've all learned, I can report back to Alex now. I think he's a little bit horrified.

who'd buy me a moon cup any time, too. Speaking of moon cups, I had, so this week I tried to make a dinner and it didn't work, so we had to have beans on toast and I put a picture of the beans on toast on my Instagram and so many people replied to me and said, but were they cooked in the pan that you sterilised a moon cup in? And I was like, oh my God, in jokes, I love this,

but also this is just in my belly, it's not even digested. You know, it's not even being digested. Can you please stop it? I feel sick. I haven't, is it just, is it just made? Serious. It does any, yeah, this actually is a serious one. But I read, I saw it a couple of weeks ago,

I'm really pleased we get to talk about it. Does anyone else find it so frustrating and depressing when your mom mentions that she's on a diet literally every time you see her? Ever since I can remember, my mom has been on some sort of diet, and I honestly think without meaning to, she's one of the main reasons that I've had such issues with my body and my weight growing up.

I'm now 30 in a place where more often than not I can feel comfortable with myself and have started to refuse diet culture and not live in fear of gaining weight. However, I find sometimes when I'm around my mom, whom I love dearly, by the way, I get body negativity creeping in when all she wants to talk about

is her new diet, how she needs to be better and must get back to being healthy. It triggers things in me that then make me question whether or not I'm unhealthy because I'm not dieting and worse than that is my own mum judging me because I weigh more than her. It just causes this mix of feelings in me I've gained significant weight of the last two years, which has caused some anxiety because

my body looks different now, and society treats fat people differently to straight-sized people, as we all know. However, I'm way less stressed and miserable when it comes to food now and can actually eat something unhealthy and not feel shame. I realize this now has become a mini-therapy session, so I'll stop, but just wondering how other people deal with diet culture being unknowingly pushed on you by your own family. I forgot to read at the beginning that she did say she loved the podcast and that she thinks they're great, just in case you didn't want to answer it. I was going to say. I know. I know.

I know. I know. I was like, yeah, Alex is not going to want to hear this. I did think of stopping you, but then it was serious. I was like, I shan't. I shan't. You are so not alone with this. This is actually difficult, okay? Because, and this, I always like, I talk to people in DMs about this a lot because this is hugely common. Because for a lot, a lot of people who have problems with their body image,

It has stemmed from their mum, which makes total sense because they've seen their way that they've seen the way that their mum talks about their own bodies, you know, looking in the mirror saying like, I'm so fat, this is so disgusting. Like, I can't wear that. That's gross. I need to cover my thighs. I can't wear a bikini. Blah, blah, blah. The list goes on. Or like constantly on diet, flitting from diet to diet to diet while they were growing up. So it makes total sense. And I think what it's so important to realize, firstly, that it's very frustrating. Yes, it's. It's so, so, so frustrating because for a lot of us now, we know better, but they, that generation grew up in such a diet culture heavy environment that was obsessed with being thin. Like, way more so than it is now, honestly, it was like, like, we have, I mean, anti-diet culture is, I don't know if it's in the mainstream, I think I'm in a bubble, but I think it's getting

there, but it absolutely wasn't when they were growing up. It was like, you have to be thin, to be healthy, you have to be thin, to be attractive, you have to be thin. There was absolutely no size diversity, no inclusivity. So they, you have to, I think it's so important to recognise that they are just products of their own environment. And I think that you getting frustrated with it is totally understandable, 100% understandable. But I think it's, if you can understand that this is because they are a product of their own environment and that you, you know what is healthy for you. And I think if you can make peace with that, you won't feel the frustration anymore if you can and I mean you can point your mum in the direction of

resources and and show her that like actually you don't have to be thin to be healthy and that you don't have to be thin to be attractive like it's conditioning and you know we've been fed the thin ideal for a reason and here's why it's not real I think you can do that and but I do think that you have to kind of take a step back and realize like she possibly may always be this way so you have to make peace with that rather than feel frustration about it because then you're always going to feel frustrated about it. But at the same time, I say that I do empathise with you because it's really difficult, especially when you're on this new self-acceptance path and you are understanding diet culture and that these things, there are powers at play that

are damaging to us. So I get it. But I think, yeah, you have to realise that it's about her and it's not about you. Yeah. I think as well as like the thinness that that generation had to aspire to, they also had to be small, like so much of, and I don't mean small, like literally physically, I mean so much of their lives had to be so much smaller, and, and self-love isn't a radical thought, it shouldn't be considered radical, but it is, and to a lot of that generation, you know, this idea that was showing off where, um, we're, we're being narcissists, we're being vain, you know, there's, there's still a lot of like internalised misogyny in that generation, that our self-acceptance and our self-love, it can,

feel radical because we are going against everything really that they were brought up with so it can and it can feel really difficult particularly as well like when obviously you look up to your parents so so much and they will get to a point where there will be certain things that you know more than them about and it feels so odd and I can't ever balance that in my mind my parents know everything and everything I know is not as much like I I can't imagine that I'll ever know as much my parents because that's kind of like humanness right like and also I didn't go on to go and like be a doctor or a lawyer or like learn any actual skills yeah so this idea that you might know more than your mom or you might be right about something and she might be wrong like that's a really

difficult thing to contend with I think even though you know like in your own space in your own house you can be like yeah cool I've got it I think you you very easily when you go back to be with your family you slip back into a dynamic where they know best so you instinctively put them on a pedestal And you think, oh, well, if she's doing this, it must be because she's right, which means I'm wrong. And we very quickly do this to ourselves, where we put ourselves down because we think, we put them above us because that's how the power dynamics always been. So I think, like, it's not a question of what's right and what's wrong, although, you know, to us here and to you listening, we'd be inclined to say, well, our mums are wrong, but to them, they're not. So it's not like a she's wrong, because that, all that causes for me is feelings of frustration. and I don't think they're very healthy feelings to have around your mum.

Like, I just think they're not good for anybody because she won't understand why you're annoyed with her. You won't like feeling resentment towards her, and it all just kind of makes it a bit uglier than it needs to be. So something that I've worked with my coach on, it's like rather than kind of getting, like, annoyed when people say things, is to find the thought that gives me peace around them, and it's normally something along the lines of, poor her.

Like, I'm so sad for her. this must be so hard for her and you can then completely remove yourself and it's not her being right and saying that you're wrong it's not her saying that she's better and you're bad it's not actually anything to do with you

this is entirely because of her conditioning and you find the thought that works and for me when I'm when I'm feeling instinctively reactive I'll get annoyed and I have to replace the thought and I'm like this is sad I am sad for her that this is the situation

and then it removes all my frustration and I replace that with compassion and then I'm less likely to be a twat basically and because all I end up doing is either reacting to something or hurting myself just being annoyed and making it about me in a way that I needn't so and that's the thing frustration in those in those circumstances is so difficult because it rarely ever gets resolved and it just builds you got to remember as well that I think it's important to be patient I'm like this as well like I'm super impatient and like I want something to happen I want it right now so if I if I tell my parents like actually that isn't right this is why and this is what you know and it's likely that she's not going to say oh yeah you're right that's so true

I'm just going to change the way that I've thought for the last 60 years or whatever like being told you've been wrong about something for your entire life and also that there's something has, you know, as with diet culture, has impacted you so heavily as it sounds like it has for this person's mom for so long. Like that's so uncomfortable and that, and it's so much easier to lean into like, no, no, no, I'm right and I'm going to look for things that show that I'm, I'm still right about this. She's not going to immediately be like, oh yeah, here we go. So I think patience and yeah, just I think just, I think being gentle with it is good. but also, yeah, like M said, just, I think you have to make peace with it in your own mind.

I think that's the best way going forward because it's uncertain whether you and her are going to be able to come to any agreement about it. So what you can do is make it okay on your part. And then you're going to be able to sort of let your relationship, you know, continue without harboring these feelings of frustration or resentment and just know that like, And like for you, you say like, oh, I feel sorry for her. And like for me, with things like that, like when I was like in therapy for my eating disorder, like what used to help for me was thinking like, I know that I'm, I know that I'm the healthy one in this, right? I know that I am the physically and mentally healthier one, if that makes sense.

Not to make me superior, me superior, but I know that it wouldn't be good for me to. adopt their way of thinking because that would make me unhealthy and that's the most important thing is my physical and mental health and that made me feel really strong with it and like anyone that said to me you need to lose weight or whatever I'll be like I am more healthy than I've ever been and I feel strong in that and I can that can bring me some kind of peace and alleviate any of those feelings so I think you have to find what works yeah what works for you two things first of all you don't owe anyone health which I think is a really important like thing like I was like I was find that really, I'm like, why have I got to tell you that I'm healthy?

Like, people always say this to be like, people, men on Instagram, I'm always like, if I'm like looking, you know, not like totally thin, someone's like, go for a run. And I'm like, and I instinctively, and I want to go back, I'd be like, I just want a fucking ultra-meric that, are you all right? But then I'm like, why have I got to defend myself to this absolute cretent? I don't, I don't owe him my fucking cardiovascular fitness. Anyway, but the other thing I think is really important, and you didn't mention it in this, but just in case anybody is listening to this who feel similar or has this situation,

I think something that's quite common is for different women, whether it be your mom or your grandma or sister or whatever, to make comments. And this is something that comes up in my DMs a lot. And I just want to tell you something that I've learned in coaching that's so important to me, which is, what is it? What Sally says about Susan says more about Sally than it does about Susan. And basically, it's very common, and I always talk about this around Christmas,

where, you know, moms will make a comment, granny's will make a comment, aunties will make a comment, Are you sure you're going to have another potato? Are you really going to have pudding? How much chocolate have you eaten today? You know, there's so many comments and it's really hard not to feel like that as a fucking dagger. And obviously when we hear that, we spiral into this like,

oh my God, they think I'm really fat and they think I'm this and they think I'm failing as a woman and blah-l-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la. And we spiral and that's really normal. But I think it's so important that those comments can literally be directly translated to reflect that person's own issues. Nobody happy with their own body gives a shit about anybody else's body. honestly and I know that with a hundred percent confidence and so when somebody says to me are you really going to have another rose potato and I'm going to be honest people do say that

to me a lot because I eat a lot of roast potatoes um I all every single time I literally think to myself it's like you're saying that because you wish you could have another roast potato when somebody says oh oh you're really going to have another one they're saying that because it's like god I really wish I could have another one that's what they're saying They're not saying it because of you. They're saying it because they're like, fucking hell. Diet culture has got me by the nipples and I'm in agony and I wish I could do what you're doing, but I can't.

So what I'm going to do is bring you back to me because that's what we do. We're going to bring you back rather than bringing me to you, I'm going to bring you to me. And you just don't let them. No, I'm not coming. I'm not coming. I'm going to eat this roast, but it's going to be fucking delicious, Karen.

And that's that. But, yeah, basically, it's not just you. It is absolutely not just you. Absolutely not. No. okay well I think we gotta go yeah we have to go we've talked for too long you have to go we know we always talk for too long um well we'll see you next week I suppose suddenly got very awkward yeah we're gonna go and um and I'm I'm going to be talking to you

from abroad next time we're going we're taking the podcast international baby girl um I'm going on my holiday and I've been too scared to tell Instagram because I'm scared you're all going to cancel me even though it's perfectly legal and I've been waiting since 2020, but here we go. I'll see you next week from the holiday.