Should I Delete That? - "White bread isn't evil" with dietitian Aleeza Rosenberg

Episode Date: January 16, 2023

This week on the podcast, the girls are joined by Aleeza Rosenberg. Aleeza is a dietitian who specialises in eating disorders and she is actually the person that helped Alex on the path to a healthy relationship with food. She also went on to contribute to Alex’s book, You Are Not A Before Picture, and this interview shows why she had such an impact on Alex. Aleeza is incredibly warm and compassionate, and also full of facts and wisdom ready to bust what you thought you knew about diets and, specifically, carbs! This episode does discuss eating disorders and so if you’d prefer to skip it after the Good, Bad and Awkward segment, we’ll catch you next week.Follow Aleeza @aleezarosenberg_dietitian or visit her website hereClick here to buy You Are Not A Before PictureFollow us on Instagram @shouldideletethatEmail us at [e-mail] by Daisy GrantMusic by Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It's no surprise that there's different fared diets that come out every year. Because if any of the fair diets actually worked, there wouldn't be any room for new ones popping up. Hello. Hello. God, I look like a queen. How do you look very pretty? Very pretty. Like, very pretty, because we're off up to your baby shower tonight. Except, well, my friend called her as a baby sprinkle the other day, which I really liked. It was her second kid, and she was like, I don't really want to do the whole shower thing,

so I'm calling it a sprinkle, which I loved. I know, it's still her thing. So I'm just trying to find my own thing, because I can just hear my mom's voice in my head being like, a baby shower is they're American, like, no, l-l-l-l. Baby drizzle. I think, baby-dizzle. Yeah, okay, we'll have a baby drizzle. I like that.

You know? Baby drizzle. Yeah. It's also a little bit like bleak and gloomy, which I quite like. And it is foul weather outside. And it is dark because we're doing it for dinner because literally no reason. We're just having a dinner. I don't want to take it. I've taken a lot of weekends up this year from you guys. We have the hen. We had the wedding. You know what I mean? Like, I'm going to be reasonable. We'll do a dinner. And it's going to be very nice dinner. It's at a very nice restaurant. So I'm like, I can't wait. I was going to say something at,

it is bad weather that's what I was going to say because you know I like to talk about the weather I do I did my hair because I mean I've been out all day but I knew that we had the baby shower tonight so it's like I want to

I mean I told you I dressed up and now I'm in my jumper but like I've got a satin skirt on and my boots and tights I've got tights on and I did my hair like I curled it all nice and then it's just been

I think you look pretty I do yeah but I also I'm standing by myself I think it's growing at a great rate. Oh my God. My mum said yesterday, your hair doesn't look thin. Oh my God, Norma.

We have graduated over Christmas. She said it doesn't normally look shiny, and now it's almost shiny. And now she's saying it doesn't look thin. One day, you know what? I reckon at some point in March, she's going to tell you it looks quite nice. I think we're not far up.

I don't think we're not. I still got a bit of work to do. This night or thin deal is worth, it's weight and gold. You're getting this fluff from your mother. Also, like when I started doing it, I was like, oh my God, another thing to add to my ratio, another thing to put on my whiteboard. But it's actually slot in very well, along with Simprove. The whiteboard has transformed my relationship with Simprove.

I'm taking it every single day without fail. Proud of you. Look at you go. Oh, while this is up, I had a lot of messages from podcast listeners about the discount code not working. I have specific parameters for the discount code. It's for new customers in the UK. So the new email addresses in the UK, read between the lines.

And it's M50 on the flexible three-month subscription. This is not part of the ad. This is just doing you a favour because it expires. Like, it won't be 50% in February. So it's 50% now on the three-month subscription. You can cancel it any time. So basically you can cancel it on the fourth month if you want when it goes back to full price. So if it's, so I've already ordered some, I won't be able to use it.

Is that right? No, but if Dave ordered some. Ah, and Dave might want to order some. I've heard that Dave has interest in aiding his gut microbiome. I've heard it on the pipeline. You would be correct. Yeah, they're not pipeline, the grapevine. I've got my ear to the drain.

I'm like, wait, is that Dave's gut microbiome? He has expressed some interest, I'm sure. So there we go. Dave will be purchasing some simproof. Good for him. Okay, so there you go. well, that's our gut microbiome sorted. That's our gut sorted.

Tell me something good, Alex, like... Tell you something good. Tell me something good. I went to Vienna with my parents. Oh, on your own. And it was all on my own. And, oh my God, I got a flight all by myself for the first time in a long time.

Obviously, you know, for a really long time. So, like, it was quite worried, but I made it. It was fine. And, yeah, I mean, I spent the most wonderful two days. I think I've, like, spending time with your parents alone, spending time with one parent alone is obviously very hard to come by, never mind too. So I felt very lucky and very fortunate and it was just so cool.

I just, I pretended to be the only child I never was, you know? Well, the only child I was for two and a half years before Jen came along and ruined my life. But, yeah, I went back to the good old days when I was two. Just third wheeling on your parents for their romantic trip. obsessed with the fact that you weren't like I'm obsessed with it I've got all these pictures of us like and I'm in the middle taking the picture the selfie and they're behind me and it looks like I've been photoshopped myself into all of them um it was just wonderful it was it was absolutely wonderful so so yeah you're adorable I'm so happy for you that's my good I love that what's your

good well I think my good hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm you know what I'm just getting I've had a I've had a really oddly I'm in a very positive okay No, that's not entirely true. When we started this phone call, I was as like, I'm in such a rage. I just want to punch something. But as you did predict, I've snapped out of it pretty quick, such is my life. It's incredible. Honestly, your capacity to literally switch your mood on a dime is just unbelievable.

It's such a skill. There's almost something wrong with me. Do you know what I mean? It's a little, it's borderline neurotic in how quickly it can go. And I just... Manic? Yes, very manic. It might be the word.

Very manic. Yes. Yeah, I do identify with that. That does feel right to me. Oh my God, a manic. Is that sitting well? Yeah, geez. Yeah, a little bit, a little bit.

Yeah, I do, oh, I feel like a real breakthrough there. Wow. Should we get a psychiatrist on the podcast? Yeah, I saw a meme earlier that was just like, this guy was like, I tried to type, I'm on my way earlier but autocorrect changed it to I'm in my way and I've just had this huge therapy breakthrough I was like whoa oh my god that's so good oh my god I think I've just had a breakthrough oh my god I'm in my way and I'm manic I'm in my own way and you're money who you I feel like a lot of people know um so yeah I mean my good I'm just having quite a good

life you know um i'm i'm so heavy um good thanks but so my good started as a bad but it's just ended up being quite like punchy so um if you've been following me on instagram if you've been following the saga basically the daily mail ran a shitty article about me a couple of days ago and they stole alix cameron's photos of me and yeah they uploaded them onto the daily mail website and they printed them but they didn't credit her and they didn't pay her like they didn't ask permission and they didn't pay her whatever so she fought them because she's cool and she won so they took down the not only did they take down the article obviously it was too late for the one in print um but they took down the article off offline and they've paid her like they've paid

like two grand or fifteen hundred no two grand i think for the images which is what they're worth which is great good um and she is an absolute babe and she is an absolute babe and she She's donating a portion of it to the pregnancy sickness support charity. Oh, that's so cool. That's really cute. I said it. I was like, babe, you just pocket it. You deserve it.

Like, fuckers. They're going to steal your shit. Anyway, she's a nicer person than me because she's donating some. But, um, so, yeah, like, it was just, I just really enjoy winning against them. Also, I loved the support that I had on my Instagram, like, when I shared what they wrote. because actually it was fucking rank what they wrote. The headline... It was so rank.

It was about me being like Clarks and girls, so not even using one name. Clarks and girl don's skimpy top gear and it's like, okay, why are you calling me a girl when I'm like incredibly pregnant? And two, why are you calling me a girl when you're sexualizing me?

Like it's like infantilization, it's sexualization, it's just so rank. Like don't sexualize a maternity shoe and don't call a pregnant woman in this sexy shoot that you've labelled a girl. Oh, rank. Also, you're a 28-year-old woman. Woman. I'm literally married.

You're not in your teens. I think this is, speaking of, like, therapy breakthrough, I think this is where a lot of my, like, my imposter syndrome, but, like, yeah, I guess imposter syndrome has come from, is it's like they have constantly... I don't know. Sorry, I've been sick again. um yeah i don't they've constantly like infantilized me like i'm always a daughter or a girl daughter girl and i'm like woman woman mother wife yeah like call me what i am it's really weird that like i'm

growing up but they're not letting me it's like i'm still a child and even then why do you want to write about a child so much like they give me the fucking it's so it's so it's so it's so good news good news is that we took naked photos with alex Cameron, and they are not going to print those fucking things now after the stink we've caused. So I've bought, because I keep saying, Pete, you know, I got a bit of shit. The comments being, oh, well, you know, you wouldn't be relevant if they didn't write about you and blah, blah, blah.

I'm like, I don't want to be fucking relevant to them. Like, I'm, let me be irrelevant. I don't want anyone to give a shit. I don't want to second guess everything I fucking say because they're going to twist it. I want to be left alone. I don't, you're not asking for relevance. No. You're not asking for relevance, and also what you do, your work.

Your career, your career is entirely independent of anyone else. Apart from maybe me now, because we're like forever intrinsically linked. Yeah, 100%. But it's completely independent. It's completely independent of anyone else. So, like, relevance is irrelevant. There you go. Relevance is relevant.

It's redundant to talk. Yeah, I don't know. It really, really irritates me. It's so bad. The get on my goat. what yeah yeah hang on hang on no don't get up my goat fucking hell out

go out no stop saying get up my goat but why would you be getting on my goat you'd be way too big to ride a goat oh my god get on my goat yeah it gets oh no no

to annoy someone it's just gets my goat not get on my goat I think it's get on my nerves and get my goat I'm gonna get on my goat right I am so annoyed you, I'm going to go get on my goat.

I'm going to ride my goat out of here. Oh, my God. But no, it was really disgusting. And I was so proud of the way, I was so proud of you for, like, talking about it, like, publicly and just putting them on blast, because that's what they deserve. And that's what we need to do is just, like, continue to call them out. And eventually, hopefully, one day they'll shut the fuck up. Yeah, because I think people, you know, comment and they're like, oh, we'll stop giving it attention.

blah, blah, blah. And I genuinely think it's really important that we point this stuff out, because it is a very, very subtle microaggression, this, like... Yes. I don't think it's subtle. No, I mean, the language they use, right, when it's like, girl, God, Don, Skimpy Top Gear, whatever, there's nothing actually overtly offensive in that. You read that and you're not like, oh, this is, oh, this is such an inflammatory headline. You just, it's, it is subtle in that the way that they write, it just gets you down, it's so pervasive in that it's like the words flaunting, spilling out of, showing off, all of these words are synonymous with being too much. And the way that we think about women

changes as a result because you end up thinking, oh, she's flaunting it, she's showing off. She's a bit like she's too, she's falling out of something. She's displaying her curves. She's showcasing her figure. And all of it is, you just, it is subtle because you do start thinking like oh god this fucking bitch man like she's just really rubbing it in my face when she isn't she's just existing in her body but you like yeah you you you that's the way that you interpret it after a while because it's so prevalent all of this language and i think that's what i love calling out here because i can see the shifts in people when people reply in the comment they're like actually this is really gross and you don't realize how gross it is until you point until it's

pointed out sometimes do you know what i mean so i like totally yeah a lot of it subliminal messaging. Yeah, and we've just got so used to the, like, tabloid rhetoric in this country, and it's fucking gross. Like, the way we talk about women. I really don't, I also really don't agree with the whole, like, don't bring attention to it. We've probably talked about this before, but, like, on two levels, number one, someone can't tell you, can't tell you what to do and say about things that affect you.

And also, I don't agree. That's, like, on an individual level. like on a collective level, I don't think it's good to not bring attention to things that are wrong. Of course it isn't. Like, how else are we going to like learn that they're, like you said, learn that they're wrong, grow, move on from it, a heel. Like, we can't. We have to point those things out. Yeah. Call me Prince Harry. I hate that. Like, don't grow, don't bring attention to it. It's like, well, you know, just ignore it. It's like, well, you know, it'll go away. That is the one thing. If you ever hear me seeing that, to my kid has punched me in

the head. If you ever hear me say, it never goes away. Just ignore it. No. No. No. No. It grows. It festeres and lingers. We're going to talk about it and we're going to work it out. Absolutely. So yeah, excellent news. Yes, it was. Anything else? Oh, an awkward.

An awkward that's an old awkward, but I was reminded of it. And I need to bring it back up because... What did you do? It made my skin crawl all over again. So when I used to work at Hello magazine, there was a cafe next door and we used to meet PR's in there like all the journalists from hello would like often do their PR meetings in there like go for coffee with them and stuff um so one morning I was meeting a PR um and she was from a beauty brand

and so I walked into this cafe and I saw this girl hi I know you went to sit down sat down we started chatting and I think I ordered a coffee and it started to dawn on me as we were chatting and like you know when your blood runs hot and cold both at the same time like your face flushes but your whole body is like ice I was like this isn't the girl I'm supposed to be meeting oh and the girl I was supposed to be meeting was sitting behind did you know the person you were sitting with yes I knew her but she was meeting another journalist so I'd walked in and just seen someone I seen a familiar face and like on all autopilot just went, sat down, started talking, and then it dawned on me, this isn't the person I'm supposed to be meeting. And I knew something fell off with this girl, but I couldn't real, I couldn't, I was like, something felt maybe she's having a bad day. And then I was like, I'm the bad day. I'm not meeting you, am I? I'm the problem. I'm the bad day. I'm not wrong with you. Am I? She's like, no, no, I'm meeting Ellie. And I was like, oh, fuck,

I am so sorry. And then the girl sitting behind just like, what is? What is. going on but like didn't want him interrupt but also like what is going on have you double bucked us like so i just had to like get my coat back on i'm just getting my coat back on get my bag back on and like okay i'll see you soon then bye oh no mortifying how embarrassing i like forgot about it and then it was brought back up this week and i was like the podcast needs to hear about this oh shit when was this was years ago oh god you just been sitting with it quietly it's just stuck it's it yeah no it was it was horrifying horrifying because you feel like when it happens this is something that wouldn't happen to someone else and to be fair it probably

wouldn't I do have a lot of like brain farts I don't know what you call them that's fine it's just a bit slow anything for me right awkward oh oh oh okay I don't know if my awkwards and my bad they'd probably have to be so I don't know if you know what I've been doing while you've been away, but I re-downloaded my sleep-talking app, which records me talking in my sleep. Oh my God, yes. I really want to hear this.

Tell me you're going to play it. I think I might get in trouble with people for people with emmetophobia. Let's do a huge trigger warning. Okay, I'm not playing it just yet. You don't have to go just yet. Okay, I'm not going to play it yet. I'm just going to give you some context if you don't know what's going on. So I downloaded this app called.

sleep talking and it basically record to sleep talking as the name implies and I thought that because I do talk in my sleep and I did before I was pregnant apparently I've been doing it loads since I've been pregnant so I was like okay cool it'll be interesting and it has been but what has been by far and away the most interesting thing about

this has been that at 5 o'clock roughly every morning I have wretched myself awake and I kind of know it's been happening throughout the pregnancy because I wake up very sick but they've become such commonplace, I'm almost sleeping through them. My bad is that last night, I choked on, I woke up because I was choking on my sick.

Now I have that audio and that is the saddest piece of audio. Now, this isn't, you don't need a trigger warning for this one because it's just very sad. And I said to Alex, I was like, I'm going to play it. I'm going to put it on my Instagram and he was like, no, it's too intimate. I was like, fine, I'll put it on the podcast. So I'll play the retching afterwards. But first of all, I just want to play you. This is only at 20 past 11 last night.

So I'd only been asleep for about half an hour. So Alex was still awake. Right. As you're about to hear, okay? This is, don't worry if you're scared. It's not a wretch, okay? Okay. Okay.

No. That's up. No. You're okay, no. You're okay, no. What's wrong, don't know. And then it's just that really sad little burp at the end. It's so bleak.

It was so bleak. And then like on a serious note, I did lie in bed afterwards and I was just like, oh my God, I'm like, I'm so scared to sleep. And it was, it was so shit. I was like, oh my God, I'm being so humbled by myself. Oh, God, love you. Now can we get the retching one? Yeah, okay.

One, there's loads, okay? So I'm just going to say, right now, love you loads. Come back in 30 seconds if you don't like six sounds, okay? What's that? Is that the hiccups? That's one from every night. I've got, that's my alarm clock. 537, 515, 511, 5.0.

47. How adorable. Oh my God, you poor things. Who needs a loomie? I, you know, I... Who needs to live? Who said, aloomy? I, oh my God, I mean, I thought at least you get respite when you sleep. Oh, no. No, no. There is no respite. Final countdown, baby. We've got like, like, we are, and she is, you know, we're in today's...

She's inneminent. Innament. Innament. She's inanimate or what? She's imminent. Oh, bless you. This is the final. It's quite jokes, though. It's a final countdown. Sorry.

I'd like to point out that that was M and not me for once. I know, but you're hearing what I'm going through right now. Like, it's just a mess. I did tell the doctor, I had a hospital appointment this morning, and I told the doctor, and they're putting me on even more medication to give me some more sleep. Okay, okay. Like, so funny. The good thing is, because I was thinking, oh God, you choke on you're sick,

but you lie on your side when you're pregnant, don't you? You can't lie on your back. You're not supposed to lie on your back. Oh, God. And every time I do wake up on my back, I'm like, oh, my God. And then I have to, like, post the baby. And I'm like, are you okay, you okay? And then she's like, yeah, get off.

And then I thought it was for you. I thought it was for you. No, I think it crushes the, um, the blood thingy going into her, into her. Oh, I see, I see. Yeah, like, from. something yeah something like that belly button i think it's my placenta i don't think it's hers but i'm claiming yeah probably yeah i made it yeah yeah absolutely already fighting her over like handbags it's mine it's mine you've been borrowing it they're not used to find she can have it she can have it's fine

i really don't want it oh yeah she's so greedy so greedy already she's out we know how big her tummy is there is no yeah like she has stolen everything i've got this kid she has she's like she's like a lander in there back in like, I don't know, like the medieval times. Like she is like stuffing herself. So entitled. I know. And just leaving me and my body just ravished. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

No, no, no, no. I think ravished. Something else. No, no. Ravished. Ravished. No, ravished. Not ravished.

No, wait, ravished. Not ravaged. What's a difference? Yeah. I mean... No, it's definitely ravaged. So ravished. To seize and carry off by force.

I think that's what I meant. What was to ravage? Yeah, so you left your body like ravaged, like destroyed. One of them is sexual. I don't want the sexual one. I think it's ravaged that's sexual, but I don't think ravish makes sense. Why don't we say, leave your... body depleted how about that ravish is a word though yeah ravish like a radish with a

v is to seize and carry off someone by force but ravage like ravage is to cause severe and extensive damage to i think that's what she's doing to me ravaging me is that sexual no no no no hang on people ask what does it mean to ravage a woman to pillage or sack something or to have vigorous sexual intercourse. I did not mean ravage, okay? She is depleting you. She's leaving you depleted, okay? There you go.

That was a, we've been to places. Well, on that note. No, you didn't tell me anything bad yet. So, oh my God, my bad. Talking about young things, young kindlings, baby things. My nephew, who is one and a half, no two, that doesn't make sense is it he's one and a half

nearly two he's in between one and a half and two okay fine there you go I don't know you do you talk about them in months don't you 19 months 20 months no I am not about the month life it's a lot it's hard she's years and then it's just years

you could tell me that he was one and that doesn't mean anything more to me than that he's two I have a lot to learn yeah anyway carry on yeah anyway he's in that bracket you know my little nephew the apple of my eye

like I love him so much we spent so much time together like he calls me Ackix because he can't say an L yet so he calls me Ackix it's so sweet I buy him things because you know I'm desperate for his love and affection he want him to love me and so far he has loved me and it's like a switch something's happened something switched do you know what I know what it is actually so so when we go to nursery to pick him I often go to nursery to pick him him up, right? Fine. So one day, he had this really bad cough, so we wanted to take him to the walk-in centre, and my sister Jen, who's his mom, needed to do some things, like, call people, or call 1-1-1, I think it was. So she gave me him, and he was ill, and it was after

nursery, he was exhausted, and he was, like, just crying for his mum, like, did not want to be with me, just like, mommy, mommy, like, get this woman off me, like, because he just wanted his mom and ever since then and every time he sees me he gets this like visceral reaction and he goes no no no and i walked in the other day i was like i'm i'm gonna come and see louis after work come and say hi to him i walked in and he looked at me and there's like terror in his eyes he went no no no and he picked up the nearest thing to hand which was this little xylophone that i bought him the absolute cheek that i bought him and he's got his name on it and he's got his name on it and he throw it at me. He lobbed it at me. And it hit me. It reached me. What a little prick. I know. I know. I know. Oh my God. I know. I know. And you can't pick up the xylophone and dirt back again. Absolutely not. No. It's not. No. I don't think that would be, I think it would be frowned upon. But can you believe it? And every time since, every time I've gone FaceTime to him, no, no. And he's smacking the phone. No. Maybe we should get you a wig. Or we just stick with a nyoxin. Maybe as your hair gets better, you'll become less than less recognizable. Do you think?

I'm just going to have a big bush on my head. Yeah, by the, oh, I think that's going to help. By the time, yeah, by the time your mum says your hair looks nice, Louis will be over it. He won't even know, he won't even, they won't recognize you. But like, I don't know if you can be offended by a not yet two-year-old. Yeah, it's crushing. But I am. I'm really offended.

I've watched you be, like, properly offended when Betty, like, doesn't look at your eyes for long enough. Oh, yeah, no, that's a whole thing. as a whole thing, yeah, yeah. So I'm, yeah, I'm upset, I'm crushed. I'm crushed, actually. Yeah, that's the word for it, crushed. So, there we go. If anyone's got any tips on how to make young people love you again without being desperate, because it seems like the more desperate I am nor he brushes me away. So, it seems to be a bit hard to get. Stop applying to his tips. Yeah, maybe. When I left, actually, he did. Take another kid. Where can we find you another kid? That's what we've got to do. The minute this one's out, I'll ship her down and you just got to

really pay her a lot of attention, yeah, like how on your lap, or buy her shit, give a lolly, probably don't, but pretend to. And then, yeah, and then Louie will be like, that little tramp, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to get jealous. That's it. That's what I'm going to do. Oh, my God, I'm going to buy a doll. You know, when there's, like, realistic dolls, you're going to buy one. Yeah.

This is why we read those toxic magazines as teenagers, so we knew how to make our nieces and nephews and children love us. Exactly. Exactly. We were preparing ourselves for the future. Perfect. My awkward is not my own awkward. My awkward is Alex's awkward. This morning I had to go to a hospital appointment and every time you go to see midwife you have to we in a little tube and they test your weight and they test it really quickly and then they tell you what's in your weight. And I had a little bit of, well, there was a confusion. as we were leaving they were like oh are you whatever are you emily um there was a little bit of lucaside in lucca's eye in your way okay and Alex was like so confused and i was like okay cool like

what do i need to do do anything and they were just like no we're just gonna send it for a full test it's probably nothing it's very low dose like it's very low amount so don't think it matters whatever you know i'm just flagging it with you but you'll be fine and Alex was looking even more concerned. And then I was like, okay, cool, thanks. And then he was just like, wait, sorry. And then look to me, it's like, how did you get Lucasade in your way? It's like, I've literally had one bottle of Lucasade in my whole life. I was like, it's not actual Lucasade. And then they were pissing with us. And then they were like telling their other colleagues, like one was like, oh, I think she's got Lucasade in her way. And then everyone was like,

ha ha ha he was like oh that is so cute I love that the whole time he thought and they were like yeah no we'll just go up we'll send it off and just like really make sure and he's like yeah yeah please also it's like nine in the morning like when would when would I like have like sunk a lucase I love that oh I know bless him French that's pretty cute cute oh love to see it well this has been fun well but so fun it's time to end it to listen to an expert yeah it's a proper expert a proper expert yeah yeah a proper expert so we have eliza Rosenberg on the podcast today who is

we've got a personal collection connection connection connection we have a personal collection I wonder what's in the personal collection we have a personal connection here today guys because Elisa is the dietitian I started seeing when things were pretty bad with my eating and she really helped get me out of binge eating and she contributed to my book as well. She helped me with a whole chapter all about eating and nutrition

and we thought with January in full swing and diet fads and diet culture in full swing and people telling us to like cut out carbs and intermittent fast and don't eat sugar and don't eat fat but also eat loads of fat and all the mountain of shit that we are being bombarded with at the moment we thought it would be good

to cut through it by getting a real expert on a dietician, she's a registered dietitian and she's going to explain to us everything we need to know to make proper choices this January, proper choices that genuinely fuel us and our bodies and make us feel good and not things that make us feel shit about ourselves.

Stunning. Enjoy it guys. Enjoy it, guys. Enjoy. Hi, Elisa. It's so nice to see you today and so strange to see you in this context. It feels like two worlds colliding for me. And I will explain why. So I've worked with Elisa a lot. Basically, I started to see Elisa when I was really still struggling with my eating. And I was going to a therapist at the time who was, insistent that I, you know, I see a dietitian to help me with my eating problems. And I was insistent also that I had solid nutritional knowledge and I knew what a healthy balanced diet looked like and I was doing all the right things. And I was absolutely convinced that there was nothing a dietitian could teach me. And I mean, like half a session in with you and I realized that that was absolutely completely wrong.

And I also realized, and I think this will be the case for a lot of people listening as well, is that I realized that practically all of my nutritional knowledge was, I had gleaned from diet culture and picked up from all the different diets that I'd done along the way. So I had these beliefs around nutrition and what I should be eating that were just false, basically and based on misinformation. So that's why it feels like two worlds colliding for me. And when I started working with you and everything shifted for me and I really managed to curb my binge eating, which was amazing and just life-changing for me. And it was all down to you. So I'm so grateful. And then you contributed to my book. We did a chapter together on nutrition.

And so I knew in January when we are full of diet culture BS, when we're surrounded by it and surrounded by all this misinformation and people telling us to do this and do that, cut out this, cut out that, and blah, blah, blah. I thought it would be amazing to have you on to kind of cut through the misinformation and talk to us and really help us get a grip on what is a genuinely, and I'm using balanced in the truest form, like, you know, a genuinely balanced diet that works for us.

It was a very long intro, but hi, so happy to have you here. Oh, Alex, thank you so much for that intro. I mean, it's a delight for me to be here. Thank you for having me. And it was such a pleasure to have you as a patient. I think that you were, as many of my patients come to see me, you know, really misinformed about what nutrition is, what a balanced diet is, what we should and shouldn't be eating.

And I think that's largely attributed to a lot of the pseudoscience out there where ultimately it's, as you say, gleaned from diet culture. And so what I find myself doing day in and day out, I mean, as a specialist eating disorders, dietitian, is literally taking apart all of these beliefs that people have around this sort of pseudo-science and actually, you know, talking to them about what the real science is. And, you know, I think in that way, when people start to understand how their body works and what they should be doing and what they should be eating, when they should be eating,

how they should be eating, bust all of the diet culture rules. I think people develop a much healthier relationship with food and their bodies. And I think, you know, it's brilliant that you've done that and that you've got such a platform to share your experience and how brilliantly you've done nailing your eating disorder to, you know, the world, really. So well done, well done on that brilliant book that you've published. And, yeah, thank you for having me.

Yeah, and we'll get into. So I've put a question box on my story for questions that people wanted to ask you and when I say it is like swamped like absolutely swamped I've had to like cherry pick some of the most popular ones because there's just far too many but before we get into that I actually just wanted to ask you you said that you know you have to you know when when patients first come to you you have to sort of pick apart the beliefs and I wondered what is the most or like a couple of the most common beliefs that you have to debunk for patients before you can before they can start to sort of heal their relationship with eating?

I mean, I think the biggest one is that it's the carbohydrate story. I mean, I've been a dietitian for a long term, and there's been sort of different phases where the media, you know, have vilified different types of nutrients. You know, there was a time where fats were vilified, and everybody was going fat-free, you know, low-fat products, light, you know, product. And that's changed. You know, at the moment, more recently, it's been cutting carbs and going carb-free. And I think that's the biggest sort of myth that I find myself busting at the moment.

Because I think that, you know, where the media gets it right is that, you know, on the one hand, having too many carbohydrates is not a good thing because it will get converted. into fats and too much fats will result in fat storage in your body which can cause weight gain. But I think the real science that's missing in that message is that you still need some carbohydrate every day at every main meal because if you don't, your body is going to be lacking its primary source of fuel in order to keep your body functioning. So that's the biggest one I find myself busting all the time. that is the biggest thing like with this fear of bread that we grew up with my screensaver on my phone when I was like 14 was a photo of Ryan Gosling and it said when you eat bread Ryan gets sad and we all had it like we all it was like our incentive to not eat toast was like the fact that we've been making Ryan Gosling doesn't give a shit if I eat a piece of toast but like it's just mad

like how scared we are, how scared we've been made to be of bread or of God. Absolutely. And I think, you know, a lot of people trying to sell products or books capitalize on that belief and that myth and that sort of, you know, cultural sort of belief that, you know, many, many diets are based on cutting carbs or having zero carbs. carbs because you know they want to sell books products diets diet plans meal plans yes so it's very very much apparent but you said just there sorry just from my own curiosity because i know nothing like i haven't done it's so bad like my knowledge of food actually i'm going to be really embarrassed listening like doing this because i yeah i mean i like everyone that came came up

during the noughties. Like I have a very odd relationship with food. And for me, my saving grace was exercise because for the, I started doing like real endurance stuff like marathons and ultramarathans. And that for me was amazing because I just had to fuel my body. And I learned, I think, a lot of intuitive eating through that because I just became very aware of what my body wanted and needed. And it was very good for me. And I'm in a really, really good place of food now. But I realize I still know nothing. So, can I just ask what you just said there about how every meal should have a carbohydrate in it? Why is that?

And, like, what happens if you don't have one, it? Because now I'm like, oh, my God, what? The Insta diets that I've been seeing, like, I always see, like, gym girls with no potatoes on their plates. But that's not right. No, that's not, that's not right, especially if they're not having any carbohydrates at any of their meals. I mean, and I think that the reason that carbs are. carbohydrates are so important is because it is the primary source of energy in our body. So, you know, I often sort of describe the human body by using an analogy of a car.

So if you have a car that needs petrol in order to run, the book tells you you need to fill up this car with petrol because that is how the car runs on its fuel. And in the same way, we as a human body, our primary source of fuel is glucose. and glucose ultimately is able to fuel every single cell in the body so that whether it's a brain cell which allows us to think whether it's a muscle cell which allows us to move you know every single cell has needs fuel because we're not like plants plants don't really need to eat because through photosynthesis they get exposed to sunlight and and with water they can create fuel but as humans we can't create our fuel we have to eat that fuel and glucose comes from basically carbohydrates

and so in order for your body to function properly and that includes physical functionings that you're able to walk and move and lift things mental functioning in terms of your ability to think process information memory good mood good sleep ultimately all of that requires fuel And so carbohydrates are essential in order to fuel every single cell in the body. And if you're not getting carbohydrates, your body's functioning starts to change. And it can change in a way that could compromise your physical health and your mental health. And, you know, ultimately there's some long-term sort of side effects, really, of that. including obviously an eating disorder you know i have a lot of patients who ultimately are cutting carbs

entirely and that can really become a slippery slope towards a full-blown eating disorder specifically binging i remember i remember i think we talked about this in the very first session and i was like gobsmacked mind-blown because i thought you know i mean i was yeah i like em you know grew up in the 90s and the naughties and believed that carbs were the devil. And, you know, if you were to have carbs, it would be one meal only and it would have to be a meal during the day and, you know, with the idea that if you had them late at night, they would just sit in you and your body wouldn't metabolize them and then you'd just gain all this weight. And I remember you're telling me that I, that, you know, you're supposed to eat carbs with every meal and just

being like, no way. There was just absolutely no way on earth. And it felt like, and I was convinced that I was going to start eating these carbs and I was just, you know, I was going to put on so much weight because of it and it's so weird now because like obviously now I eat carbs with every meal and it's so strange to think that I just had zero carbs. It was just, it was mad. But that actually leads us nicely into the first question which was very popular because I think keto has really,

it's boomed in popularity over the past few years. I feel like it's replaced Atkins, replaced ducan you know there's always kind of like a new thing when i as far as i'm aware it's very similar to atkins um but a lot of people wanted to know your thoughts on keto and whether it's a sustainable way to live and a sustainable way to eat yeah i mean what what the keto diet is is really a low carb almost you know there's different variations of it but ultimately it's limiting carbohydrates. And in some of the variations, it also is a high fat diet as well. So, you know, I think that when you start limiting carbohydrates, it's very risky because your body's blood sugar

needs to kind of be stable throughout the day in order for you to function properly. And when you have a sugar dip because you're not having enough carbohydrates, your brain starts craving sugar and carbly foods because it is going to go into an overnight fast, every night, during which time none of us eat when we sleep, and your body has to have enough fuel in order to keep a heart beating, breathing, all of the functions that our body still needs to do whilst we're asleep, it's got to have some fuel for it. And so when you're cutting carbohydrates, it's typically later in the afternoon and the evening where people start to crave sugary foods and carby foods, which is why people typically have that late afternoon slump where they need

a chocolate run or typically come home late at night and have a massive meal on carbohydrates because they have not had that fuel in the day. And so ultimately, Ultimately, in order to function properly, our body really needs to have carbohydrates at all of your main meals, to keep your blood sugar levels and acid stable throughout the day itself, and some of that sort of fuel that you're giving it from the carbohydrates is put away into a storage known as glycogen, and glycogen is literally our reserve supply of fuel that carries us through the overnight fast so that our body actually actually is able to function, you know, at night. So I think that, I mean, I've been in eating disorders now

for 10 years, and I have seen thousands of patients come to me with full-blown binge eating as a result of variations of a low-carb diet, whether it's Atkins, whether it's keto, whether it's dukan, you know, any of some of the intermittent fasting, also sometimes limits carbohydrates, you know, and ultimately it's just, you know, it has a functional effect on people. And also, I think mentally it affects people dramatically because they feel, you know, anybody going on a diet has some feels like they're not good enough in some way. Either they're not happy with their body or they're not having their image, low self-esteem. And when they go on these diets and they can't do them and they fail the diet,

it just further exacerbates that low self-esteem and self-loathing and just really affects one's mental health. So besides all of the physical complications which will happen if you're not having enough carbohydrates and if you're calorie, you know, restricting as well at the same time, it's even worse. You know, you've also got the psychological impact of feeling like a failure. And, you know, it's no surprise that there's different fad diets that come out every year because of any of the fad diets actually worked, there wouldn't be any room for new ones popping up, you know, but the reality is, you know, the research shows 95% of dieters regain all of the lost weight within a year to five years. And that's not because people are

failing at the diet. It's the diet that's failing people. And so I feel like, you know, keto is just, you know, one of those sort of fad diets because, you know, besides the physical and psychological impact of, you know, falling off the wagon, you know, ultimately it's not sustainable. You know, it's very, very difficult to live an entire lifetime, not having carbohydrates. It's socially restrictive. It's not enjoyable not to be able to have pizzas and pastas and cake and minced pies and Christmas pudding. You know, so I think that besides the physical deprivation, I think there's a lot of psychological deprivation that happens. At some point, you know, people will give into temptation and that is going to result in.

floodgates opening and people potentially binging on food that they haven't allowed themselves whether it's a week, a month, a year, five years, but, you know, the risk is ultimately there, that when you are restricting one of the primary food groups, there is going to have, you know, it's going to be a, I think, Alex, you remember me talking about the pendulum swinging from one extreme to another. And when you cut anything out of your life, whether it's your diet, it or anything else, I think that the moment, it's just human nature that when you don't allow yourself something that you enjoy, that's when you want it more. And if, you know, you're sort of restricting something to the extreme, it's just going to swing in the opposite

direction and you're going to sort of want a lot more of it than normal because you haven't allowed yourself to have it in a long time. It's so true. And I always was convinced that I could control the pendulum, you know, if I took it to one end, I felt like I could, no, this is in my power, this is in my control, I don't have to let it swing to the other way. But every single time, it's swung right to the other end, every single time, because it's like, it's just fighting your biology and that your biological instinct, I guess, so it's difficult. 100%. You know, I think that so many patients, there's this term willpower. And everybody believes that they have solid willpower, and if they commit to doing this diet,

they'll be able to do it for the next 80, 100 years. But as you say, your physiology is against you, because we as humans need our primary source of fuel. If we're not given the primary source of fuel, then your biology changes. And what happens is that with that low blood sugar, your brain starts to crave sugar. it also ramps up your hunger hormone, which is grilling. It makes you feel hungrier. And, you know, we're just geared to prevent starvation and dieting as humans. And what happens on any kind of calorie restricted diet, if you're not giving your body enough calories that it needs, it will actually slow your metabolism down and prevent weight loss, even if you're on extremely low calories. because your body is geared to prevent starvation. And so it kind of, you know, humans have been around for millions of years. And ultimately, at some point in history, we were hunters and gatherers,

and we did have droughts and famines, and there wasn't any food around. And our body had to adapt in order to allow the human race to survive. And so what our body is able to slow metabolisms down in the same way that like a polar bear goes into hab and in winter, where everything slows down so that it literally is able to use its own stores and survive through winter and, you know, into summer, and our body also slows metabolism down if we're, you know, restricting too many calories. And what happens there is that the weight loss will stop, but you'll also start having functional effects of that slowed metabolism. Because basically what happens is it's kind of like a budgeting exercise that your body starts to do in the

same way that if you for example had your salary cut in half you would have to think carefully about what you spend your money on in the same way that the human body is going to have to think about while we were getting a normal amount of calories and now we're getting a lot less and this has you know been prolonged for a fairly long period of time we have to be really careful about what we're spending those calories on. And so it will allow the essential organs to continue to thrive, but it will cut off all of the kind of non-essential functions for survival. So, you know, you'll feel colder. Your hair will get thinner, potentially fall out, your nails will get brittle, your periods might get lighter or stop altogether, fertility is affected, bone health is affected. So, you know,

there is a, you know, there's risks involved. I think it's really reassuring to hear like a professional kind of validate this idea that it isn't just your willpower because particularly on Instagram and I've noticed it so much recently particularly in the fitness space like the amount of gym bros that come in and talk like mansplained this situation as if it is the easiest thing in the whole wide world and you just you just need more willpower just eat less just go into a calorie deficit like whatever it is it's so frustrating. because what you're saying makes so much sense. The budgeting analogy makes so much sense. The pendulum analogy, like all of it on a logical level, but there is this undercurrent of like, well, you just need a stronger willpower and it's going to work. And that, I mean, I've actually found this really,

the pregnancy sickness that I've had, I found a very enlightening time because I've been so sick I haven't been able to keep nutrients down. And like you were saying, my hair's been falling out and breaking. and the nails are trash and I look like shit, but I've actually been holding onto quite a lot of weight on my bum and in my legs, which I find fascinating. But it's been the first time that I've been confronted

with what my body can do when it's in like survival mode or when it's like doing what it has to do and like it has to hold onto this weight to protect me and the kid even though I don't feel like I've had, I don't feel like I've put enough food in to have resulted in the weight gain that I've had. but it's so

like, I don't know, it's so comforting to hear after years and years of diet culture for you to explain the physical response and the humanness of this that isn't just willpower

because it will, like, it's, oh I don't know, I'm not going to say his name but there's that one guy on Instagram that's just oversimplified this situation. so much and i just really hope that anybody's listening will be who has ever felt like they failed at a diet can feel so reassured by what you're saying in that your your your your your body is having this response this human response to what you're doing to it 100% i mean the

human body is remarkable i mean firstly em you don't look like shit i think you look like the most glamorous pregnant woman i've ever met i can't believe you're about a pup i mean but you know the reality is yes i mean the human body is amazing. And the reason that you are retaining legs and, you know, your, obviously your bump and your butt, and probably your breasts are growing as well, is because the body realizes it's pregnant. And those are the most important areas necessary to give birth and then feed your baby. So, you know, at different times, the body is miraculously able to adapt to the situation. But, you know, in your situation,

you haven't been able to eat, not because you are deliberately restricting, but because, you know, you've got hormones which are affecting you to the point where you're not able to keep anything down. And so, yes, I mean, there is a risk that, you know, your hair might be falling out because of those deficiencies because you haven't been able to sort of keep things down. But it will adapt to make sure that the vital functions of your body are able to sustain your baby and that your baby's development is, you know, not compromised in any way. In fact, there's lots of research that in pregnant women, the mum's health will often be compromised to ensure an absolutely normal development of the baby.

Oh, this baby's huge. She's fine. I keep saying this to the doctors. I'm like, why? Like, she's so, she's so massive and I'm like, uh-huh. But I don't, I don't want to do way talk about the pregnancy because that is specific but I just I think that um see this I think what my point is that this is the first time that I have ever let my body really like take the wheel I think that's what I mean like we have been controlling our diets for so long even subconsciously because we have all of these things that we've learned quietly or you know read in magazines or just been fed by our parents or mums or whatever and this is the first time that my body's just doing what my body should be doing without all of the other noise because i'm just having to trust my

intuition and it's just it's just remarkable that it it's taken this for me to learn such a massive lesson and that i couldn't give myself the grace or the space to just explore what my body actually wanted in another way yeah i mean absolutely i mean i do think that that, you know, it's interesting, before social media was around, diets were sold in magazines and, you know, in articles that you had to read, not necessarily pictures. And, you know, I used to have a giggle when I was sort of, you know, on the tube or, you know, commuting, whatever, I were reading some of this sort of pseudoscience because how they sold a diet didn't make sense. If you have studied biochemistry or physiology,

you will know that everything that was saying in that article is because of the rubbish, you know, things like, you know, your body turns everything into fat the moment you close your eyes at night. And so if you eat late at night, everything turns to fat. You know, I mean, there's just so much, so much rubbish I used to read in these articles and I used to have a giggle. And I mean, you know, I had a giggle because, you know, I have studied biochemistry at master's level. So I know what the science is and I know what's nonsense. But I think that these days with social media, there isn't even that pseudoscience that is being written anymore because it's just really photos, you know, and I think that's one of the reasons

why everything feels oversimplified, because diets and products are sold with before and after photos at the moment. You know, there isn't actually even, you know, a justification or an explanation as to how these work. It's often just like, I did this, and it's often in door, by people that have really good platforms and well-respected people, you know, that, well, I mean, if they did it, and that's how they look before and after, well, then it must work. And I think that's, you're absolutely right. I think things have been overly simplified. And yet, going back to what you said, and like this distrust that we have in our own bodies, when really, probably intuitively, if we were born without diet culture, we would have an inherent trust in our bodies, right? We would

just trust them to do what, like we trust with pregnancy. You know, we kind of like trust them to grow a baby. Like we would just trust them to do and be where they were supposed to be. And yet we fight so hard against that in order to look a certain way. It's just, it's just, it's, it's, it's really sad. So intermittent fasting, which you mentioned before, and this is something that was really touched on a lot in the questions actually, people want to know, is it good, is it bad? And I guess this is difficult because intermittent fasting itself, I believe, is a fad diet, essentially that's been like sold up. It's like packaged up and sold as a fad diet. But a lot of people saying, I do it unintentionally. So I don't eat breakfast because I'm not hungry. Is it okay

to do intermittent fasting unintentionally? Is it okay to not eat breakfast? I guess it's a bit, it's quite nuanced this one. So I wondered what your thoughts were on this. Well, I mean, I think there's a lot of different variations of intermittent fasting. You know, probably the two most common ones are the 5-2 diet, where for two days of the week, you limit your calories to 500 calories, and then for the other days of the week, you just eat whatever you want. You know, that one is very, very risky because limiting your body to 500 calories a day is just extremely little. It's nothing. And, you know, if you're doing that, not only are you going

to actually feel really tired in the day, hungry, very irritable. I mean, you and I, Alex, have done a lot of work around the symptoms that one would feel when you are having low blood sugar. And, you know, the dizziness, the poor concentration, hungry, irritability. All of that would be happening on a day that you're having 500 calories, you'd also feel really tired, but, you know, I think very, you know, if you had a birthday to go to a social function work event, I mean, you wouldn't be able to literally eat anything. So that one, you know, is, firstly, most of the data shows that it doesn't work because although it is possible to limit calories to 500 calories, you know, certainly in the short term, I think ultimately one ends up falling off the wagon with that one in the long

term because it's just socially restrictive and you just find yourself starving and irritable and all of that. But, you know, I think the biggest risk to that one is that on the other days when you're allowed unlimited amounts of calories, people basically make up for it and ultimately over-eat and potentially binge on those other days. It's kind of like, You know, I have loads of patients that kind of have told me that, you know, Monday was always the diet day. You know, diet starts Monday. And they would ultimately binge on Sunday night knowing that they would be dieting the next day. And I think the 5-2 diet kind of almost encourages that, really, doesn't it?

Because if you had to, you know, fast, you know, because, I mean, 500 calories is virtually like, you know, one tiny meal a day, that's it. and if you had to fast on one tiny meal a day and not eat anything you know you would end up binging you know the next day so it doesn't really work in terms of weight loss and I think it's just not sustainable people fall off the wagon very quickly because although you might have some willpower to do the 500 calories two days a week I think ultimately it's just too psychologically restrictive, socially restrictive, physically you'd feel really awful on it,

and so it's just not sustainable in the long term. Looking at other kinds of intermittent fasting, the sort of more recent term of intermittent fasting is more like tam-restricted fasting, or not really fasting, it's time-restricted eating, they call it. And time-restricted eating is where you look at. have to change what you're eating. You just have to change when you're eating it. And so what, you know, some of the more recent, you know, emerging science around this is showing, but it's sort of mainly in animal rats and not humans, is that there are some health benefits towards, you know, when you are limiting your dietary intake to around sort of 10 hours a day, 8 to 10 hours a day,

and then fasting for the rest of the day, in the sense that it does reduce certain triglycerides and cholesterol levels and lipids, it can improve, like, you know, your insulin, your, you know, glucose control to some extent. And so, you know, if somebody is sort of naturally, waking up later and having a later breakfast and an earlier dinner, well, then it is possible that they do have a window very naturally because their lifestyle allows for it to have a time restricted eating window around, you know, 10 hours or 8 hours even. It is possible. However, you know, all of the time restricted eating podcasts that I've listened to in any kind of articles that I've read, there's always a disclaimer that if people have an active

eating disorder or a history of an eating disorder, that they should not do it. Because any kind of rule restriction that prevents one from actually intuitively eating and doing what naturally feels right for their bodies, and if it works in the lifestyle too, should not be done. Because again, And if you are specifically limiting yourself and restricting breakfast and going hungry, I think that could catch up with you later on in the day where it could potentially backfire and result in overeating and binging. So, you know, as a specialist eating disorder as dietitian, I certainly do not encourage or endorse any kind of, you know, time-restricted eating and certainly not.

any of the sort of intermittent fasting five-two diets, you know, in any way. Also, I think if people are doing time-restricted eating to try and lose weight, it may not work. Because remember, at the end of the day, if you're having too many calories and doing, you know, very little movement and your food choices are wrong and you're not having regular meals, even if you do it within an eight to 10 hour window, you know, your calories are too much, your food choices are wrong, your meals are not balanced, and that's ultimately not going to allow for any kind of weight loss. So I think that, you know, the emerging research is more around the improvement in metabolic functioning that it's showing in terms of reducing, you know,

cholesterol and other blood lipids and potentially improving, you know, preventing like pre-diabia. you know in that sense but it's certainly unless you are changing and making sure that you choose the right foods balance your meals what your portions and proportions and all of those other things it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to result in any weight loves yeah it's it's good to hear you say that you know if you've ever had any history of struggles with eating that you shouldn't do things like that because i mean i've i've heard i've seen that science as well about the 10 hour window and about it relating to gut health as well and a pot you know with my IVF embryo freezing stuff a big focus of that was trying to get my gut healthier um so i've been taking sim prove which m takes as well and which

you recommended to me as well um and you know i i read that about about the 10 win 10 hour window improving gut health and so I started to think oh maybe I should do that might help improve chances of you know getting more embryos or what I don't know you can you can kind of go a bit go a bit far with it but it's actually there was a little like voice in the back of my head thinking like should I should I am should I do that or is it going to just you know potentially I mean potentially not but sort of lead me you know down a rabbit hole and I think you're right any kind of restriction to anyone who's sensitive to restriction is not is not is not good it's not it's not wise so it's good to hear you say that and validate that i guess absolutely and in

you know all of the virtually all of the intermittent fasting fad diet books that i've got you'll see in the you know the introduction the preface of the book it says you know this should not be done by anybody who's got an active eating disorder or history of it because it can resurrect that yeah so So what we touched on in the book and what I wanted to touch on is that I, it was my feeling that a lot of the anti-diet rhetoric on Instagram and the intuitive eating commentary on Instagram, a lot of it centered on, you know, allowing your body the things that it didn't have, you weren't allowing it previously and cutting free of the rules that you'd imposed on your body and on eating, which is. obviously brilliant, but what I felt was lacking in those, you know, in, in that advice was real nutritional advice on, but this is what our body needs and this is what we need, you know, these are the vitamins that these are the foods that we need in order to receive the nutrients and the vitamins that we need, which is what we, we touched on in the book as well. We kind

of went through all the things that we do need, like, you know, why you need carbs of fats and all of that. And I wanted to ask it. A lot of people ask this in the questions as well as how can we eat healthily? I'm saying that for lack of a better word. How can we eat healthily without making sure that we're falling into the diet spiral? How can we separate out, you know, eating healthily and fueling our bodies and making sure that we feel, you know, good and that we are actually focusing on ourselves without that having any. think to do with diet culture or weight loss or anything like that how do we make the two sort of independent i mean i think that i mean there's this sort of full main or maybe five main

points that i always talk about when i am working with a patient to try and share what a healthy relationship with food is and what a healthy you know intake is um i mean the first thing is that you know, we've got to be eating regularly in the day because in order to remain in control of our food intake and to allow our body to function optimally, we've got to be eating regularly, which is why I have, you know, this problem with some of these intermittent fasting diets, is that, you know, it's kind of like, and I use this analogy a lot in clinical practice, is, you know, if you are expecting to drive your car to wherever it needs to go, You've got to make sure you've got regular pit stops along the way in order to top it up with fuel.

And in the same way, you know, when we wake up in the morning, we have things that we need to do, be places, we've got to think, we've got to talk, we've got to move. And most importantly, our internal organs have to function and make sure that we stay alive and remain healthy. And it needs to do that by being fueled regularly. So I think regular eating is critical. And, you know, often when I ask patients, are you eating regularly in the day? They often misinterpret my question to be, are you having breakfast, lunch, and dinner? But even if you are having breakfast, lunch and dinner, that may not mean that you are eating regularly. Because actually, it's the time period that's most important.

It's not actually, you know, the number of meals you're having. So I think that to function optimally, we need to be eating something every three to four hours because the way in which the body digests food and releases glucose into our bloodstream means that by the time three to four hours have passed, that blood sugar is no longer there in the bloodstream because it has been, you know, swallowed up by the cells in order to function and do whatever they need to do, whether it's brains to think, muscles to move. you need to kind of top up every three to four hours. That's most important. And ultimately, it varies. You know, a person that's waking up really late might have their first meal of the

day at midday, and that's okay because they'd probably be going to bed a lot later too. So, you know, I don't think that you have to eat in the morning. I think whatever time that you wake up, ideally you should be eating something soon thereafter. And then, you know, every three to four hours after that and so you go to sleep and hopefully you're sleeping around you know seven hours you know seven to nine hours and that is what regularly eating is so regularity is the most important thing that I always start off with because that talks to blood sugar control and when your blood sugar levels are nicely balanced it just allows for proper you know health good mood good physical health internally and also, you know, just, you know, cognitive, you know, ability to sort of think,

process information, memory and all of that. The same thing that I talk about is balance. And, you know, balance means that, you know, a lot of these fat diets cut out whole food groups. So they say, you know, don't have any carbs. Or historically it was don't have any fats. You know, a lot of, you know, some of the other diets like, you know, paleo diets, cutting out dairy, you know, whenever you have something which tells you to cut out a food group, you should avoid it. It should be a red flag and that should signal to you fair diet because every single food group has a function. And so, you know, you've got to make sure that you're having all of the different food groups. And the third point is you need to have them in the right proportions. And that

That's key. So your portion sizes are really important of those foods that you're having and the proportions of all of the food groups in a day is also really important. I do a lot of work and obviously it's sort of, we don't have time to really go into the detail, but within each food group there are better choices to have than others, both in terms of health but also in terms of making you feel full and satisfied and keeping you in control of your eating, especially if you have a tendency to over-eat or binge-eat. Some are definitely better than others.

So we've got regularity, we've got balance, we've got portions and proportions. And then I think I talk a lot about, you know, I have a lot of patients that use food, you know, to cope with stress or negative emotions, you know, they sort of resort to food as a coping mechanism. And in that way, they end up using food and eating food when they're actually not hungry. So I think what's really important is for people. And, you know, it's a good exercise if you are struggling with loss of control with eating or ending up overeating or binging and having, you know, unplanned snacks and whatever, that you start making a note doing some self-monitoring, you know, journaling about whether you're feeling hungry or not.

And also, what are you feeling? Because very often, you know, people tend to find that things like anxiety, low mood, work stress, loneliness. All of those can cause, you know, uncomfortable feelings. And very often people escape from those feelings. by resorting to food or binging. And part of the work that I do is helping people to develop better coping strategies to deal with those negative emotions

or deal with anxiety and stress so that they don't resort to using food as a coping strategy. And so, you know, that's also also a really important point to mention. And then I think the last thing, which I think is quite individual, is that people have to really think about, well, what are these rules that they've grown up to believe? And, you know, I've had so many that have come our way,

having worked with patients for so long, that we have to unpick. So in the same way that I used to unpick the pseudoscience on the tube, reading magazines about science that just, you know, it doesn't make any sense bichemically, you know, we have to unpick some of these beliefs that people have that have been ingrained in their belief system, either because they're role modelling, siblings, parents, whatever,

and their sort of disorder eating behaviours, or whether it is something that they've read, or, you know, we've got to really unpickered for each individual and start to create new neural pathways and new beliefs that actually work. Can I ask a question, jumping, like, way back to, the first point you made, you said about how we need all the food groups. Can I ask if processed sugar counts in that as well? What do you mean by processed sugar?

God, I have no idea. I just, I don't know anything. I guess I mean like, because I think sugar's been really vilified as well in that, I mean, I remember a time when people told me not to eat bananas because that had too much, that had too much sugar in it, but obviously that's not processed. and then I think processing by definition means anything that's been altered from its natural state. So I suppose that would be loads of different types of sugar.

But I guess when I'm saying sugar, I'm processed sugar, I'd say like full fat Coke or like tankfastics or like, you know, the stunning stuff that would be deemed unhealthy or prosthetic sugars maybe. Yes. So you're referring to something known as sucrose. Sucrose is effectively sugar that you find in a bag of sugar that you bake with, that we, you know, it's labeled sugar. That's sucrose. Sucrose is a combination of glucose and fructose together that is not inherent in a food per se. So, you know, for example, the banana is actually just fructose.

That's a food sugar. That's a naturally occurring sugar. That's not a processed sugar. And it behaves very differently. than sucrose. So when you're having sucrose or sugar from a bag that's added to products like to make processed foods like biscuits and pastries and whatnot, you know, that processed sugar is not necessarily bad for you because if you have a look at the eat oil guide which is endorsed by the NHS and, you know, Public Health England, there is a place

for processed food, which, you know, is often called fun food, treat, you know, occasion foods, like, you know, chocolates and biscuits and cupcakes and all of that. As long as you don't have them in excess of quantities, it's absolutely fun. You know, and I think that having worked in the eating disorder space and disordered eating space for a very long time, I encourage people to have some of these fun foods, or processed foods with some sugar in it because they're enjoyable.

Most people like them. They're often around in, you know, birthday parties, work events, leaving dues, celebrations, whatever. And it's just normal to participate, you know, if everybody's, you know, if you're handing out cake to everybody that you accept a piece of cake and enjoy it. So, you know, I definitely think that there is a place for processed sugar. I think that I have had thousands of patients who have gone, you know, clean eating and eliminated all kinds of processed sugar and sugar containing foods like those chocolate, sweets, pastries or whatever, and ended up binging on them and developing binge eating disorder, again, because of that psychological deprivation of foods that they like, but for whatever reason, they have led themselves to believe that they should not be having them at all. So I think cutting them out is not a good idea.

I think having them in small quantities is very good because it allows you to enjoy your food, participate in social functions. And also, you know, at the end of the day, when you allow yourself something, you don't really want it as much. You know, human nature is by definition, you know, the moment we don't allow ourselves something,

that's when we want it. And so I think it's important that you give yourself permission to have those foods because then they're not going to sit on that pedestal and you're not going to want them and lose control on them. So I do think there's a place for processed sugar. Certainly in my world, anybody that's got a history of dieting, concerns about their weight and shape, any disordered eating behaviours, any diagnosed eating disorder, definitely think that there is a place for those fun foods. And I actually, I'm sorry to keep going back to my experience, but to like illustrate it like in situ as well, when, you know, before I started seeing you, I thought processed sugar really bad, bad for you, can't eat it, don't eat it. So I wouldn't eat it. And like you said, those were the things that I would binge on when I did, when I had my binges. And then when I started seeing you and you encouraged me to have those things in like normal portions.

like every day or you know just have a little bit of something like when i felt like it and it really does it's magic to see how it then stops this because i would be previously i would like i would dream about all these all these sweet treats and all these like cookies i wanted cookies and and and chocolate and cakes and and i think that's what is was so good about working with you as well is that you really encouraged all those things and like took away the took away from seeing those things in a bad light while also still making me realize that like it's not good to only eat those things you know like that's not that's not good for me that doesn't make me feel good and you're so rad i mean i i mean on my website i've written my

a blog about how i developed a healthy relationship with food and in it i say that i have a lovely ritual every night after dinner when chloe is asleep in bed my husband and i have a cup of tea and we have some chocolate, you know, I love chocolate, you know, it's just my enjoyable sweet food and I love milk chocolate, you know, I'm not talking about this 90% dark chocolate. I mean, I just, that's, you know, for me, it's not enjoyable, you know, chocolate to me has to be milk chocolate. I have some chocolate every night and, you know, some nights actually just don't fancy it. I just don't feel like it, but most of the time, you know, I have a little chocolate and, you know,

And that allows me to, the reality is, I've never ever had a poor relationship with food. You know, I was very privileged to have grown up in a very normal household where my mother just instinctively brought us up to be intuitive eaters. And, you know, I actually developed a healthy relationship with food as a child because of how my mother brought me up and she wasn't a nutritionist in any way she was a teacher she was almost you know sometimes I don't actually know how she got the knowledge that she did but the way in which she brought me up was ultimately aligned to all of the science that I have since learned in my you know bachelor's and honors and masters and all of my experience as a dietitian but you know we were there were no bad and good foods in our household we did we had everything and nothing was off limits

And for me, nothing was off limits in my house. And that includes chocolate, which is my love, it's my weakness. But I never lose control over it because I just give myself the permission to have it whenever I want. And I don't really have time during the day. At the moment, my days are mad because I see five or six patients a day. I do school drop off, I do skill pick up. I've got a three-year-old. I don't really have time to, you know, sit down and have a cup of tea and a chocolate during the day.

But I would absolutely have chocolate and a cup of tea in the day if I had a couple of tea in the day if I had time. But for me, I enjoy it most at night when I actually just, you know, are able to process the day. And, you know, so, so it's not that you have to limit it to having it at night. Just have it whenever you want it and enjoy it. And it's important to have foods that you enjoy because if you allow yourself, you'll be able to limit the portion of it and you won't lose control. Love that. So, a quick, we've taken up a lot, well, we need to wrap up quite soon, but a few quick-fire questions, if we can, or quick-fire-ish, because maybe these answers need a bit more info, but is white bread evil? It is not evil. It is a complex carbohydrate,

which is ultimately broken down to glucose, which fuels your body. So it's not evil, but there are better types of bread that you can choose, which are just better for your health, and will keep you full of for longer. Okay. Is juice nutritious? And I think this comes from people saying that when you break down the, when you juice the fruit, that it breaks down the fibre and the fruit? Yes.

So I think, I mean, there's juice and there's juice. So if you're talking about just pure fruit juice, which is made by just fruit, that you juice in a juicer. Ultimately, what happens is that if you have a juicer, you'll notice that a lot of the fibre, which is known as pith, you know, the orange pith, it sort of gets shed to one side of the juicer.

And then the actual liquid goes into your glass. Now, the fruit itself is very nutritious. It doesn't have any added sugars, talking to it's not a processed sugar. but when we actually eat fruit, you know, we're often satisfied on, you know, one orange, maybe maximum two. In order to make a glass of fruit juice, you need like four to five oranges. Now, none of us would eat four to five oranges in one go. We'd actually feel physically sick because it's just too much of that naturally occurring sugar. And that fiber, that pith, we don't get in a glass. It's sort of set aside. And so I think that it is.

is too much, you know, to have too often, but prudent guidance suggests that a 150-mill glass of pure fruit juice is absolutely fine to have, you know, and it counts towards one of your fibre day. So it's fine to have, but in moderation, but try to prioritize whole fruits and edge because you have the fibre as well which is filling and also have a it has a lot of other health properties in terms of gut health and cholesterol and yeah nice okay and speaking of five a day is that still considered the ideal it's considered the minimum ideal there's a lot of more recent research you know specifically linked to cancer prevention especially and also gut health in the microbiome which doesn't it should be having more than that you know

you know, studies are sort of, you know, seven to nine, you know, fruits and veg a day. So I think the more the merry are there, especially prioritising vegetables and try to have a variety. So I always talk about eat the rainbow with patients. Don't just have greens. You know, you've got to have reds and purples because different fruits and vegetables have different health properties in them. Okay. Sweeteners, are they okay? So much conflicting advice. conflicting information about sweeteners are they okay to eat i think that is quite an individual question and it depends who i'm talking to um so you know and also i mean there's so many different types of sweeteners out there some are very chemical and artificial some are more natural

naturally derived from plants so i think that one is is quite difficult to unpack here and i think it's quite an individual answer because it depends what one's goal is Is there any point in taking vitamins? Yes, I definitely think that there's a point in taking vitamins. I'm looking at you. I'm sure you're having vitamins. I mean, prenatal vitamins are essential. I mean, you know, folic acid is critical, even, you know, during pregnancy especially.

Yes, I think there's a place for vitamins. Again, I think it's quite an individual thing. When I say as patients, I look at what they're currently eating to determine whether there aren't any, you know, a very apparent. deficiencies that would be, you know, warrant taking vitamins and mineral supplements. You know, for example, you know, with us being in the Northern Hemisphere, we don't have much sunlight at this moment in time, I, you know, always recommend a vitamin D supplement to patients. You know, even if they do have a perfectly well-balanced diet and they don't have any disorder eating and they're getting enough foods and, you know, everybody needs to take vitamin D

because we needed for a whole host of reasons and we don't have the exposure to light in all of our skin to synthesize it itself. So yes, there's definitely a place for vitamins, but again, it's an individual thing. Okay. Amazing. So much information. Thank you so much. It would be so nice to wrap up with something that, I mean, when I was really, really, when I was really in the depths of like struggling with my eating it was such a painful and confusing and really horrible place to be and I wondered if you could talk to anyone who is struggling with their eating right now what you would say to them sort of top line advice or yeah just something yeah ideally what you'd say to them well I mean I would say to them that if they are currently on some kind

of fat diet and they're struggling with it the problem is not with them the problem is with the fat diet. And that fat diet is going to not only undermine their health, but I think it's also going to undermine their self-esteem, affect their mood, cause them to feel guilty and stressed, and it's just not worth it. So if you want a fat diet, get off of it. And consider embarking on a healthy, you know, use this new year to make positive resolutions for one's health. you know and and and that is definitely getting off the fat diet start eating regularly include all of the food groups have a look at the eat well guide as a starting point which shows you what all of the food groups are and which ones to prioritize and start getting those in as part of regular meals

in the right proportions and you know I think that there's always benefit to doing some self-monitoring, figuring out, you know, why you think you might be losing control. You know, very often it is just because somebody is on a fad diet that they're struggling to, that they're feeling out of control, they're hungry all the time, they end up bending and all of that, and maybe just, you know, um, then, you know, throwing out the fad diet is all they need in order to regain control of their food. But if they you know if it's a bit more than that and it's linked to you know certainly emotions past trauma difficult relationships stress at work that's causing them to resort to food to cope start you

know do some journaling figuring out you know our feelings linked to their eating habits because that's another sort of big area that I think is a reason why people lose control. So I think it's about getting off the diet, following my sort of top four tips in terms of trying to embark on a healthy strategy, and then figuring out perhaps is it emotional stuff that's causing you to lose control. And if it is, you know, seek support, recovery is possible. You know, I've seen thousands of patients with full-blown eating disorders. They have had since they were, I mean, I work with patients as young as 13, and they've recovered fully. So recovery is possible. And sometimes you just need to reach out for support. And, you know, it's often

the hardest thing to do to admit that one has a problem. But, you know, take that step, reach out for support because recovery is possible. And you can develop a healthy relationship with food, even if you have years and decades of very disordered eating behavior or even a full-blown eating disorder. Yeah. Thank you so much, Elisa. Where can people find you? Well, they can find me.

I've got a website, Elisa Rosenberg. com. At UK. And I'm also on Instagram. So, yeah, I mean, if people need support, I am around. I have a practice in London. but I also obviously do a lot of remote consultations if appropriate. And yeah, I think that's where I'm at the moment.

Thank you. Brilliant. And we'll put your Instagram in the show notes as well. Thank you so much. This has been wonderful. Thank you so much for your time. It's been an absolute pleasure talking to you both. And I do hope that you feel much better, M, and good luck with the most exciting time of your life.

And Alex, you are a total inspiration. Keep doing what you're doing. It's been a pleasure to work with you. It's always a pleasure to catch up with you. I'm happy to always answer any questions that your audience wants to chat about. And if you obviously ever need support, as you know, you are always able to contact me, WhatsApp me. Yeah, with the greatest pleasure. Thank you.

You're the best. Thank you, Elisa. Should I delete that is part of the ACAS creator network.