Should I Delete That? - Why don't I have anything to wear? with Andrea Cheong

Episode Date: September 24, 2023

This week on the podcast, the girls are joined by fashion educator Andrea Cheong. Andrea founded the Mindful Monday Method on Instagram to challenge consumers to consider whether what they are buying is actually worth their money. Andrea teaches her audience how to look for quality, value and sustainable practices when it comes to clothing and accessories. On this episode, she demonstrates how to successfully clear out your wardrobe, examine brands and understand your own personal fashion needs. You can explore Andrea’s methods further through her book: Why Don’t I Have Anything To Wear? available here: https://geni.us/AndreaCheongBookFollow Andrea on Instagram @andreacheong_Follow us on Instagram @shouldideletethatEmail us at [e-mail] by Daisy GrantMusic by Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

When I had a breakup and I was living on the floor of my friends, I was living out of a suitcase and I had never been more content with my wardrobe. Really? So I would also say, if you're really having complete meltdown, yes, do your wardrobe audit, do all the steps. Pack for your week. Hi. Hello. Hi. How? Have we ditched the intro? I think we should ditch the intro. I like the intro. Oh, okay. You can say it's too formal. I was going to say it's too profesh for us.

What, as we sit here in our sweatshirts. I know. I look pretty vile today. I feel pretty vile today. I feel pretty vile today. And there's like fruit flies behind me and I feel gross. So there you go. Well, as you should. Oh my God. That's my awkward. That's my awkward. That's my awkward. That's my awkward. They've actually gone now, but I don't think I acknowledged it at the time. I went to a period a few weeks ago. where I was clearly just rotting from the inside out because flies were following me, fucking everywhere, Al. And they've actually gone now.

That's just reminded me that I'm free of the plague. But I have been plagued by a cloud of locusts. I swear that's a sign. Like, what does it mean if, yeah? No, no, no, no, no, because you're going to Google, what does it mean if a whole load of flies surround you and it's going to say it means you stink? And I don't want to hear that back now.

No, no, no, because I don't know. No, I don't, but I don't. Have you got any open wounds? I mean, my nipples at this point are. Well, you know, because flies are attracted to dead cells and open wounds. Oh, Christ. Oily hair. Have you got oily hair?

Oh, God. Don't say that. Yeah. Oily hair is an attractant. Oh, God. They also love feces. I don't know. Do you know how hard I worked to convince myself it wasn't me?

Like, it was just men. It wasn't me. Oh, I think it was you. It wasn't. I'm sure it was you. Did it be a twat. It wasn't. Right, well that's my awkward double thing.

That is. Yeah. Good reports, probably. Gross. You're gross. My awkward channels came in on Instagram, broadcast channels. What are they? I don't fucking know. But everyone started opening channels and inviting me to them.

So I was like, oh, got to jump on the bandwagon, got to open my own one too. So I did, thinking that I was opening like up a WhatsApp channel to everyone that follows me and that we could all chat. so I started chatting in it and then no one was replying to me so it was just me chatting so then I said

I said I said I feel lonely can someone else please chat to me right and then no one replied and then I got a WhatsApp from my sister being like Al we can't reply to you

it's only a one way thing so okay fine so like I was like okay guys sorry sorry error error I fucked up And then I looked at my DMs later and someone said to me, sorry Al, I think you've been hacked. I just got a link to you from you to say that you're lonely, you're lonely and you want to chat? And I was like, no, no, that's, that's me.

That was all me. So, that's what happens when you're impulsive and you don't research things and you go straight into them. Okay, so shame on me. I'm lonely. What a weird thing to say? I don't think you were chatting by yourself. I don't think you do chat by yourself. I feel like chat, by its very definition, is a two-player game.

Do you know what I mean? Yes. Yes. Yes. Which is why I was lonely. Oh, that's sad. I didn't even open it. I actually have to say that it's not my bad, but that could be my bad.

It's the fact that everyone's inviting me to join their channels and I don't care. I'm not. I'm sick of it. I'm sick of it. I follow you on Instagram. Is that not enough? It is enough. It is enough.

It is enough. It is enough. It is enough. Then I followed you on threads, which I regret. And now you want me in your channel I don't want to hear about how lonely you are I've got my own problems I'm being stranded by flies

I don't want to hear how lonely you are I've got my own shit going on I might close my channel down just do everyone a favour Good idea Good or bad? Bad, good, good, good, good for me Oh yes

My good involves you as well is that we went on a dog walk at the weekend A dog walk that Georgie put on Georgie Swallow very good podcast guest friend yeah she put on a dog walk in the park in Battersea Park and it was so good and I was so scared

that Betty was going to like I don't know just ruin the walk and she was great and we just had a good time and Betty and Bewick got on they were friendly that was huge they even were like trotting beside each other like in harmony at one point

yeah yeah yeah no I woke up with a horrific anxiety on Sunday morning and literally my first thought like, Betty and Boer are hanging out because they are not, they are not friends. I don't think I mind of saying it. They have not, Betty has told Bua to fuck off in every language that she knows, which is yes, sit, Priya and English. Yes.

And Boer has heeded that warning. Anyway, they've, they've come together. It was stunning. So sweet. And it's so nice. And it's just, I just, I just love Georgie. And she put together such a good little event and so many people came. And yeah, it was just.

really, really nice. Hulsome. So proud of her. So proud of her. I mean, you know I don't like walking, but I managed it. It was nice. You did really well. I think, well, my bad, I guess, stems from poor lovely Georgie as well. Because the day after our dog walk, Instagram lost one of its brightest lights ever.

And that's the lovely Nikki Newman died after her five and a half year battle with cancer, with breast cancer. and that's just a huge loss and it's really sad and we just want to send a lot of love to her family and to everybody that followed her and felt her light and her presence because she was such an amazing person and it's so sad and obviously she's one of Georgie's best friends and that's just brutal it's just so unfair

something beautiful though about about this was I don't know if you guys know Nikki but she was hugely into storms and storm chasing and she had her lightning bolt tattoo and she told everybody to go and grab life and that was a really big thing and it was weird actually on Monday morning it must have been Monday I went on my run I was running and I kept thinking of her

and I kept thinking because I was running the route that I used to run with Debs a lot and I kept thinking every time something I hurt I was like yeah but how fucking lucky am I? Like how lucky am I I get to do this and I was thinking of Debs and I was thinking of Nikki and I was thinking about how cruel life is but how beautiful it is and how you just don't want to waste it

and then I was having these really deep and profound thoughts and of course when I got home Georgie told me what had happened and it was so sad but the night before there'd been this crazy thunderstorm and it's just so beautiful

that you know Nikki loved thunder and lightning so much and she loved storms and she had that tattooed and then the night she died there was this crazy thunderstorm and that just felt like so beautiful didn't it

but yeah it was like her yeah it was the lightning bolt was her like symbol her like a mask I don't know what you call it but it was it was her symbol and it's so strange and I was I've been talking to this with my sister ever since being like it's so weird that it was that night it was right it was right it was her it's amazing it's just like unbelievable like you couldn't write it no you couldn't

yeah but I agree it's a super sad loss yeah she was she was amazing and you can just see like i was reading some of the comments on on the post and you can just see how many people that she touched and how many lives that she changed for the better it's really yeah it's it's cool at the same time as being like really sad yeah yeah so i guess just like yeah i think but but in nicky's spirit i was lucky enough to know nicky and she was literally the most positive person I have ever come across and she was not one to wallow

and definitely would have inspired everybody to go out as she said so many times and go and grab life and squeeze the ones that you love and I felt very sad this week but I've also felt like a lot of beauty in her message and I really hope that we can carry that on and let her legacy be this beautiful thing that just reminds us how precious life is

and how lucky we are to be here and how short it all is at the end of the day. So I feel very blessed, very blessed to have even known her a little bit because I think she's amazing. Lovely. Really well said. And also, yeah, like you said, big love to Georgie, because she was one of her best friends and you really feel for her right now.

I do. It's a horrible thing. It's a horrible thing. And actually, well, I mean, the news and all rounders just felt shit because I don't know if you've seen it. Obviously, you've seen the Russell Brand conversation. Yeah. But the fuck.

rhetoric around that is doing my bloody head in that we might have to do and is it just me episode on that but i think we should i actually think we should yeah if the demand is there guys let us know because we could definitely do that this week i've got a lot to say a lot to say the feckin comments on his stupid little video from all these women we love you we love you why do you fucking loving you weirdos but you can't say that well you can't What are you going to do? You just did. Fuck it.

So let's go to the interview. We've got a very interesting one this week. We spoke to Andrea Chung, who is a fashion expert. She calls herself a fashion critic. And she's kind of an expert in sustainable fashion. And like what sustainability actually means when it comes to fashion, which I was kind of really intrigued by her definition of that and how it's so subjective. Anyway, we had like a million questions for her, as always.

it's always me and you like tripping over ourselves to like a fight to ask ask questions I ended up in a personal spin about this I think I've like I've definitely touched on my climate anxiety before it's a very real thing and I think I've always felt this like deep sense of like bad associated with shopping like I'm not a very good shop I think we've definitely talked about this before I'm really not a very good shopper anyway

and I had this like like real guilt when it comes to shopping so I was oddly relieved by this episode and I've been so much more I took so much of what she said on board and I felt very more like fashion aware since I spoke to her and yeah yeah I really rate it it's a conversation I didn't realize how badly I needed to have until we'd had it so I hope that some everybody else listening takes as much from this as I did because it's actually really stuck with me for the last few weeks same I'm determined to now only shop on vintage or eBay for things that I need and vestia I am living for vestia yeah vestia is amazing

It's amazing. I mean, I haven't bought anything yet because the price... It's expensive. Don't talk about it. Don't talk about this. So fun to browse. That's something you can do whilst listening to Andrea. Andrea, hi. Hi. Thank you so much for being here with us today. Looking very cool. I've wanted to... Inclose that you can't own. ...enclose that I will not be buying because I'm being more mindful.

Amazing. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself? Yeah, sure. So I... I guess... a fashion educator some people have called me a fashion critic it's quite a strange term to call yourself I teach people how to shop on social media for the planet and their mental health and my kind of five-step guide to shopping is called the mindful Monday method and it's really different because it's really the first program that is I'm aware of that kind of teaches people to shop in the modern age with a digital first culture you know this cost of living crisis this huge

emphasis on environmentalism and it just can get very overwhelming and quite contradictory so i kind of help people create kind of almost a program for themselves through these five steps to navigate that oh god i need it so badly yeah i do i really do i'm not a huge shopper like i don't buy a lot of clothes but i'm really really bad because i want to have a capsule wardrobe like it's all i want for myself and i feel like i sort of have the components but i cannot make it so like i can't make an outfit in my head. Do you know what I mean? It's not like I can, because sometimes when I lie in bed the night before we go to the studio, I think, tomorrow I'll wear something chill, like a shirt and trousers. But I can't make it look good. I don't think. I can't make an outfit. I just don't have the,

you know, to make an outfit. Do you know what I mean? I think you've got some good advice for this, haven't you? Yeah, I do. Yeah, okay. If you please help me, because I can't, you know, jazz it up. I just, I don't want to do with myself. Well, I think the whole idea of a capsule wardrobe is very idealistic. I think it's a great kind of aspiration to have, but the way that we're taught to have a capsule wardrobe isn't actually conducive for the majority of people. Because we're kind of given this idea that it has to be neutrals or it has to be ultra timeless. And if that happens to be your style, then it will come easier for you than for others. But ultimately, a capsule wardrobe is the items that you wear the most. And if you think about it like that, that actually helps

you to style around it like that's the basis of your kind of wardrobe basics that is your capsule wardrobe and so I have this exercise in my book where I ask people to every time they leave the house take a mirror selfie or just take any any photo really and once you've racked up about seven outfits count how many times you repeat the same thing because I don't know about you I am not a fan of laundry no and so I will this is like the second time I've worn this in a week and so this is now part of my capsule wardrobe if you will because I've repeated repeatedly worn it. And you can actually start to see that you'll repeat the same, I don't know, 15 or 20 items quite a lot. And that becomes the basis of what the capsule wardrobe is.

And I think even though I created the Mindful Monday method, not really to identify your personal style, it is possible then to deduce what that is. But I do feel like that's slightly separate to kind of learning how to shop. I feel like that's like quite an advanced level. And I think why we get so overwhelmed with not knowing how to get dressed in the morning is because we've skipped all the basics of learning how to look at clothes and gone straight to styling yourself. That's hard. That's an actual job. Yeah. It is. I don't think I have any personal style. And I know that sounds really weird, but I can't, like, I can, if I close my eyes, I can picture all your outfits. Like, I can see if I walk into a shop, I know what kind of dresses

you would wear, what would look good on you. Like, I'm pointing at Alex here, but like I can, I can really visualize your wardrobe. I can't do that for myself. Do you know what I mean? I can for you. What is it? It's really weird. I think I wear sports stuff so much that that's all I wear.

Well, you wear a lot of high waist of pants and crop tops. Yeah. Which has been harder since having a baby. In jeans. Yeah. Yeah, it is quite hard though. That is quite difficult because I'm thinking now like what is my part? I don't really black.

Yeah. But then you have like a puff sleeve and you have the high waist. underneath your boobs like normally and then the dress will go down from there yeah yeah do like that yeah and then like a kind of like midi maxi dress type thing but you know sorry we are totally like derailing your interview here but see I think what I find sad is that I think that most of that has come from thinking what I had to wear was had to be flattering which is like synonymous with slimming so I think a lot of that like that that's why my go-to is always like like a puff sleeve with the empire waistline and it's because I've always thought that's

flattering and I think that's probably quite sad well it is flattering that you do look good thanks but yeah it's funny isn't it but that's that actually and I was going to ask you about this from a styling thing because I think since having a baby my figure's changed and that's really weird like because I always had I'd wear high waist because my waist was always the smallest part of me again flattering whatever but like so you'd wear that and then now I'm still trying to wear it but my figure looks really different. So I feel really different in my clothes and then I don't really know what to do.

Yeah, that must be like confusing, disorientating. It is a bit because I just keep buying the same clothes but for a bigger body and they just look different and then they feel different. So, yeah, I don't really know what to do about that. But then I don't want to buy for where I'm at now. Why? Because I'm feeling my body changing so frequently at the moment.

Like I'm like my body's changing loads. I'm breastfeeding so when I stop breasting, my boobs are going to shrink those. So I don't want to buy loads of stuff that like it's going to fit and then go to waste. Yeah. Because I kind of feel like I'm in a little. a middle stage at the minute so I was I bought like a pair of I bought a couple of pairs of

trousers that fit yeah that have this have got like elasticated or that can be a bit big so that they're not wasted so if I have another baby I can reuse them and then I just got all my old stuff in like vacuum packed stuff yeah love a vacuum pack yeah so I can get that back out when I'm the same size that I was but I don't want to waste loads of clothes in buying them do you know I mean stuff that doesn't fit absolutely I mean have you done a wardrobe board it before no I didn't I've been really scared. You did one and I thought, shit, that looks good. Yeah, wow.

I'm not a professional one. Just do it myself. Yeah, do it yourself. Like, this is the thing, like even listening to my advice, ultimately you always know your own needs. Nobody else can come in, even if they are an expert, and tell you that you should now be wearing X, Y, Z. I mean, there's a reason why all of those Audro-Macover shows

in the early 2000s, that had a cold hard tab. Yeah. Yeah, let's not get into that. They were brutal. They were, like, what not to wear? What was it? 10 years, how to look 10 years young? No, was it 10 years younger?

No, what was the Trudian's other one? That was what not to wear. Yeah, there was one about 10 years younger, and there was one where they would put a photo of you and your underwear up on a billboard. And as a teenager watching that, I was like, oh my God, what if someone does that to me once a day? I don't know.

Because I didn't know how TV casting worked at the time, obviously. I thought, oh, no. They just prunk you out of the street. They're like, Yeah, true boundaries. Oh, okay, I will. Sure. Oh my God, yeah, that was 10 years younger that did that. That's actually... Oh, was it that one? Yeah, that was mad. Yeah, that was really bad. Yeah. Yeah, no wonder we're so scared of our clothes. Yeah. But, I mean, do your wardrobe order. And what I say with the wardrobe order is that it's something you should be doing seasonally.

And you have your four piles. One pile is stuff that you need to repair at altar. And the other... So every time you want to shop, go to that pile first, see what you can repair at altar. because often is the same amount of money to actually reinvest in something that has served you for so long versus buying something new. Okay. Second one is stuff that you want to donate or gift. And I say donate or gift

because you never donate anything that your friend would turn their nose off at. And you also have another pile of things that you kind of want but it's not in season. So you just pack them away and vacuum storage bags and then you have another pile and this is stuff that you really don't want. And it's actually that pile that I ask people to look at

because I'm not a stylist. Like, I can dress myself and I'm confident in my style, but I'm not about to go out there and style anybody else. And it's this pile that I want people to look at because you're going to find so much information in what you don't want. That's actually going to help you build up your wardrobe when you do go shopping. So you're going to be looking at composition tags. Are there materials that keep popping up that you thought,

you need even think twice about? But maybe it's like a certain type of fiber that makes you itchy, or maybe it's something that makes you really sweaty you've never understood why and then you'll start seeing okay this certain material pops up again and again or it could be a retailer and it really changes with um different individuals there was one incident where i did a wardrobe board it with uh with a girl i know and i was shocked because most of the stuff she didn't want was organic cotton i was like oh god okay oh that's take a beat like okay is there's something wrong with the method but then i actually

was like wait material is different to quality so don't just look at the composition tags When I actually analysed the quality of the clothes that she didn't want, they were really poor quality. Organic cotton that was super thin, really crunchy, really papery, stuff that had really bad colour transfer, didn't wash well. And that's when I realised that it's so individual to different people. So I'm just giving you the framework and the wardrobe audit can really help you to understand where you sit in that. So if you feel like, okay, I don't want to be wasteful, I don't want to go out and spend loads of money, do your wardrobe board at first. see take out all the stuff that you don't want don't repeat those mistakes if you know what I mean yeah and then you can see what you're left with as you're saying that I've got like a roller decks

of all the clothes I don't like I was going through so many to find this t-shirt this morning because I know I actually probably only have like four t-shirts I actually like and I have to go through so many shit ones to get there I'm like oh I don't like the way that one sits I don't like the way this one goes on my boobs I don't like so I don't like the fabric of this and I need to get rid of them all I like that. I've never thought about looking at what you're throwing away and that there is like information there in that pile rather than the keep pile. Yeah, because styling is so advanced. That is such an advanced concept and we're just going straight into like intermediate advance level. Let's dial it back. Let's actually look at how clothes can serve us. Because you know, similar to what you're saying about knowing what's flattering, you don't have to dress in anything that's flattering if you don't want to.

but knowing what is flattering, like colours, for example, for your, like, palette, or if you believe in that, or, you know, silhouettes that you feel comfortable in, then you can go break the rules. No one's saying you have to dress like that, but actually just even having that basic knowledge, but that's basic. And yet we're just thrown into, oh, buy this, look how cute it looks on this celebrity, right? Or like, oh, buy this is actually a really good price, but you're just kind of like, wait, does it suit me? Do I want that? I've got to stop buying bright pink. I really like the idea of it. and it doesn't look good on me.

But that's the thing. It's so easy to be influenced, isn't it? I mean, I'm very easily influenced, but I can be just seeing an outfit on someone. I'm like, oh, I need it. She did literally, my mum was in here before we interviewed my mom, and she literally was like, where's your dress from? I'm buying it right now.

Wait, isn't that what you said to me? Yeah, a little bit. God, I'm sorry. Consistent, it's good. Yeah, nothing is not consistently bad. But then I always think this, because I love Sophie Milner's fashion, and I always look at Sophie, and I think,

God, I want to dress like you. And then I'm like, but I don't look like you. So then I, but I think that's something that's actually quite hard to accept. It's like, I always think if I buy that, I'll look like her in it. And I've got to accept at some point, I won't because I don't look like her. Do you think there's something to be said about following people that look like you and only taking fashion advice from people that look like you? I wouldn't say only taking because I think you really get inspiration from everywhere, right?

and you kind of don't want to be stuck in your own filter bubble if you will but I definitely think being conscious of whose opinions you're absorbing is super important because I do think that as shoppers and even we're shoppers too we do want kind of advice and kind of guidance on what looks good and it's been tried and tested in a way but I feel like only looking at style and not the substance of it is one of the biggest kind of pitfalls as like consumers today if we say we want to shop less but better or buy less but better that is so great but how and you're not going to be able to do that just by kind of looking at someone who looks like you and then emulating their style without also considering what they're actually wearing and also a little comment on influencer culture having been a typical fashion influencer myself the amount of clothes that we show online is shocking and I actually cover this in my book it's completely undesirable

to own as many clothes as some of these girls get sent. And, you know, that's not necessarily a criticism on them. Sometimes they have no choice. It just shows up on their door. They don't even get to choose. But my point is that seeing something online, we immediately go to, wow, how successful they must be, how lucky they must be,

like how creative they must be to always have these new clothes. But actually, it's lazy and undesirable to have that many things. And it creates this overweight. and a lot of these clothes stop representing who you are because it becomes completely unconscious. You have no decision making in this anymore. I think one of the biggest pitfalls that we have is that we've sacrificed our consciousness for convenience. Let me just follow this girl. Love her stuff. I mean, all my friends are influencers, so this is not saying go on follow everybody. But like, you know, love her stuff. Cool, just buy this. Swipe up, buy. That's

convenience and it's fun it gives you dopamine and then when you get it and you try it on you don't look like her you blame yourself right you don't blame anybody else you blame yourself sorry did you think it's going to be a light afternoon no you're so you're so right and I think I do think we all live in this culture of like want it got it like I want to have it right away and I can get it and we feel like that's kind of our right I guess and influence the culture really does feed into that. Yeah. I know like first hand for me because I'm...

And it's really hot. It's actually really hard not to be influenced. Yeah. But you're right. Then it does give you dopamine. It's exciting to buy something. It arrives. You realize you don't know the same in it.

And then you realize that, oh, you've got to return something now. I heard, and I really hope it's not true, that if you return something to a company, they'll often just put it in landfill. Oh, right. Well, yeah, because returns have to be manually sorted to look at if it's soiled, if it's damaged. Yeah. if it can be resold and honestly I think that because in fashion time equals money a lot of retailers especially the fast fashion ones that didn't pay a lot to have that produced

they don't really put in the effort to do that so I can't speak to all of them but I wouldn't be very surprised if they were just kind of dumped or incinerated yeah that's really stresses me that I actually have a lot of like climate anxiety I guess but it's a lot it's like fashion-wise. I get, like, I get like, and I don't ever want to sound judgmental when I say it, but I get, like, upset when I look at, like, like, Sheehan or Primark, like, window displays. There's often window displays when I look at it, and I'm just like, oh, my God. Or like, and it's all, like, sequinate or glittery, and it's just like, that's going to be up there for, like, two weeks, and then it's going to go, and then where does it all go?

It's like, when we asked the other day where mattresses went, and then it was like, they all just went to landfill, and it was like, oh, the amount of clothes, like, if people only have two mattresses and they go to land for how many clothes do we have like but then I get myself in a big spin and I don't feel that positive about it and then you just say well what can I do as an individual and then your body changes because you either gain weight or you have a baby or whatever it is and then you feel guilt like I've been in a real spin about this for the last couple of months the last like year probably yeah you feel guilty and then you feel apathetic because you're just like what's the point I just can't even think about this I have my actual life problem to think

about and then you're like oh wait it from he neglected this and I completely understand that and I think what's interesting is that it's these fashion companies that we have such loyalty to that's actually inciting this anxiety. Let me ask you, have you ever had an ex that gave you this much anxiety? And then do you keep going back to him? No, because they're an ex. Moved on. So why do we have so much loyalty to these brands?

People get so up in arms. And I'm like, it's just a brand. That's why for me, I'm like, if you want to shop better, look at individual items. Shop where you feel you need to, because I'm not going to tell you. you know to shop when when is your money shop where you feel you need to but go for individual items not like blind loyalty yeah because if if these brands are making us feel so bad and they can't even get our sizing right don't even on that then you know why are we giving them this like undivided like almost like cult following yeah it's crazy we don't know them

um but actually even on on that point one thing i when threads first came out, you know that Twitter dupe. Yeah. Yeah. One of the fast threads I wrote was when men go shopping, all they do is literally pick their measurement. And when women go shopping, it's like, pick what shape you are. Yeah. And it's just like, and also do this quiz.

And also bring a measuring tape. And it's like, why do we have to jump through so many hoops? you know and and then still we blindly give our loyalty yeah they've got us in such a it's such a different game to what it is with men like Alex has the same pair of trousers in four colors and the same shirt in like 10 and that's his wardrobe and then he's got a couple of fun shirts for the weekend but like he'll go to zara and get like yeah like a crochet like a cool fashion shirt but he's so good he's what I should be with fashion because he just wears the same he's got his exercise shorts in four colors and then a bit that's it he doesn't

need any more than what he's got. Do you know what I mean? Yes, men are mission-based shoppers. They are. Yeah. And the way that brands sell to them follows that thread. Whereas women, and I know it's not great to talk in binaries, but you do have to ask yourself, have you been conditioned to be shopping in an emotional way? But, you know, sorry, for the sake of conversation, women are emotional shoppers. Whether that's natural or conditioned, that's up for debate.

But essentially, we are taken through this experience. or this journey and I think as fashion has gone faster and corners have been cut more the journey has not been so inspiring as it used to be and it's now kind of just a money grab and like how many impulse buys can we like scourkees out of this woman as she walks through our store you know it's a little bit icky it is isn't it we asked our audience for some questions for you and we've kind of collated the top the top questions um you you And I think actually the number one is people asking for affordable yet sustainable brands. Because that seems to be something that's quite difficult.

It is because it's not possible. And I'm not saying that it's a cost issue. Yeah. It's because, like I said, we can't rely on brands, guys. We have to stop relying on brands for all the reasons just spoken about. So, yes, some brands are 100% doing better than others, hands down. but what sustainability means to me to you to you can be quite different so let's kind of like do some critical thinking a what does sustainability mean to you where do you sit on this

spectrum are you like very much zero waste all about upcycling or are you on the other end of spectrum where you just want better quality clothes and buy less buy better and there's like quite a few other stops on this spectrum that's that's in my book but if you don't know what sustainability means to you and I say brand X is sustainable and you can get like, you know, a nice dress for, I don't know, 80 pounds, like a really nice dress for 80 pounds. And let's say the price checks out, the design checks out, you're like, yeah, okay, you know. And then you look at the brand, you're like, oh, that's not sustainable to me.

They use silk or they use animal fiber like wool and cashmere, no way. Like, that's completely valid. That's what sustainability means to you, but you need to understand that's, like, a sustainable fashion. There's so many prongs to it. And no brand can help. It is because, A, there's no regulation. B, brands have just gone wild with the word. So, very misleading.

And thirdly, we're going to talk about sustainable brands, but, you know, like I said, some are 100% doing better than others. But a sustainable brand should also be diverse and inclusive. And how many brands can even say they have an extended size range? So can we think about that as well? How many of them show a multitude of ethnicities in their marketing? you know so what does it mean to you that it's sustainable and the other point is also a lot of people will say oh okay if it's not a natural fiber therefore it's not sustainable now for me

I'm very much natural fibers first but there are so many brands that claim to be sustainable and are doing a pretty great job in their niche of what they consider to be who upcycle polyester for example but maybe it's deadstock material which is basically like materials like it's actually quite on mass people think it's off cuts it's not it's basically larger roles that bigger designers didn't want and so they kind of sell it on it's not really as sustainable as you think but you know at least it's not like produced for the brand shaky point being they may be doing their best but they have access to synthetics so are they now not sustainable do you know I mean

so yes I completely understand that question I think it's like what my audience get so frustrated me about but I think they've learnt now sustainable buys not brands I can list you brands I like but you might not think they're sustainable and you might not think they're affordable so we hear some of them yeah so some of them are in my book I want to start with loud bodies I think they are fantastic they do yeah I really really love the founder I think she's so inspiring she's so authentic in the way that she speaks she didn't start her brand because she wanted to be sustainable she started it because she wanted to put

people first and foremost and that to me is so important like who's making it and then your customers because those are the people that the brand affects and by putting the people first she's been able to create something that I would comfortably say that is a sustainable brand but it's also slow fashion it's also bespoke and then also I really love what attire is doing and this is a very unique brand because the owner is basically a super influencer so they don't need to spend a ton of money in marketing like she's so openly said what I can do for my brand, no other brand could afford to pay me to do. And she's in the book too, she's very kindly gave a quote.

I really, really admire what she's doing because she goes through painstaking lengths to make sure that there is nothing synthetic from the kind of material around your zipper, that's usually polyester because polyester is much stronger. She's sourced organic cotton ones. Her thread is tensile or cotton. Her shoulder pads are not polyester. things like that is so expensive to do and so time consuming most brands can't do that so I'm not saying why aren't you doing that I'm just saying let's applaud you know let's give credit where credits do because that's a huge effort and being a super influencer you can just no one's going to look at that there are other influencer brands that have boomed and claimed to be sustainable which I don't want to comment on and they've done extremely well without going through all of the incredible mile like extra miles that as any it has so i really like those to you there's there's a couple more

in the book but yeah that's good i think it's i i find quite reassuring listening to it in that like when you find that it doesn't feel so militant when you say like if you can find certain things that work for you that's really great like this t-shirt is from manners we've talked about it before um and it's like i've really got on with this brand because i think they are quite sustainable but it's like it's a higher price point and when I first bought it it was like 40 pounds for t-shirt I was like for basic and it's like I've lit I wear it I've got two and I wear them at least once a week each and it's probably on what you were saying about the taking a photo it's probably the only thing that I do wear that often apart from jeans which just you know I've only got like three pairs that fit so I've got those on rotation but I think that's really cool I really like that like it makes it feel a bit less scary because I think you just think you just get to a level of apathy like you were saying you just get to a level of apathy like you were saying where you just think, what's the fucking point? And when you were explaining, like, your partner's, your partner Alex's, like, outfits, like, to me, you were trying to communicate that he is quite a sustainable shopper.

But it's accidental. But that's the thing. What if women kind of just stop focusing on the label in our clothes and actually focus on the material? Do you know what I mean? Like, he's obviously comfortable in his clothes and that he wears it again. and again and again because they don't make him feel sweaty or tight or itchy. Yeah. Right?

Yeah, they're so practical. So practical. Yesterday was the first day I've ever heard him complain about it because he was wearing, I don't know why he did it. He's like, I put the wrong underwear on. I was like, what do you put mine on? Like, what have you done? But he'd put like a pair of like exercise boxes on and they were really itchy here

and it's literally the only time I've ever heard him complain about clothes. Like I would sit, like I'd get home from work and be, oh, I've got to get changed. Like I'm so uncomfortable. Oh, my jeans are digging in. Oh, blah, blah. And I'll sit and be so fucking uncomfortable. in my clothes whereas he'll come he's never uncomfortable in his clothes

worst case he's sweated and it's because it's like 35 degrees and he's been on the tube worst case like but that's it you know what I mean like he just doesn't get I would aspire to that sometimes one pair's a bit big he's like I think he'll come up big I'm like welcome to women's life he's like oh it's same but they're the same as the others I'm like yeah welcome to being a woman

but yeah like I want to be more Alex boy Alex and thank you more like me too So those brands, those two brands you mentioned, Loud Bodies and Attire, they are both, would you say like they're mid-market? No, they're expensive. I'm not going to pretend. Yeah. Yeah. So what about for people who just don't have the means to shop? Yeah.

Shop brands like that. Yeah, you don't need to. Yeah. If I shopped exclusively at Loud Bodies and Attire, sorry, guys, I do love your brands. That's not making me sustainable. So, you know, there's this, like, marriage we have, this absolute commitment we have that buying a sustainable brand makes us a sustainable shopper. And it's just, that's marketing.

Guys, that is literally marketing. That's not real. Because, case in point, Alex, who's now become an unintentional mascot for this. Thank you. He's going to listen to this to be like, am I a hero? Am I better than everyone? The closest example. But I definitely think also secondhand, incredible.

Like, let's not forget about that. I know it's not possible for everybody because of accessibility and sizing, but that's a really great option as well. So like Deepop and Vinted and stuff. Deepop Vinted, eBay, I love Vestia Collective. People think of, like, designer secondhand as unattainable, but honestly, it's the same price as high street stuff. I got a Jean-Paul Gautier vintage wool blazer for 80 pounds.

Do you know what other retailer does 80 pound blazers that don't last? Let's not name them, but we all know. Wow. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like, yes, it's a hunt. It's a search, but that's the opposite of sacrificing your consciousness for convenience. That is literally mindful shopping.

Can I ask about something that's been really playing on my mind? So I have been probably because of my anxiety about the climate, have been trying. I'm not a huge shopper anyway. I'm not like a H&M or whatever shopper. I try and buy less and better. But then I try, the better that I try to do is like cause because it feels more like a little bit more expensive and I kind of figure and hope that the clothes are going to last for longer.

And actually, I'm quite new to this. I'm only like two years in. So I don't know if they're not going to luck. We've only done one winter. So like, let's see how they go. But they do feel better quality. But then I was really upset when I saw that it was owned by H&M. And I was like, oh, well, what's that then?

You know what I mean? Like, then I was really gutted. So I, and I haven't bought anything from them since. But I don't know why, because I've got an H&M t-shirt that I really like. I get very in my head about it. I love that you care, though. I get very much. I'm feeling like the good intentions and I love it.

Okay, that's good. So, but with these companies that are owned, because I also feel like I've been doing the same with Abercrombie because it's like their jeans have been so good. And I feel like, because they're a slightly higher price point in my head, I'm like, well, that's better that I'm paying more. So hopefully it costs more to make and hopefully it's better environmentally. But I do it. know if there's any truth to any of that or if I'm just being marketed badly.

So price never equates the quality ever. I mean, listen, if you're looking at like, Chanel ready to wear then, obviously. But that's an outlier. We can't be comparing to that. There's actually a chapter in my book called Quality and I have a cost versus quality access. Okay. For fast fashion, mid-tier and luxury brands. And what I've done is I've kind of like looked at the average cost of like their general

department so denim blouses I'm going to read the whole weekend that's all I'm going to do houses trousers skirts dresses and I've kind of just like charted it according to price but the more revealing one is perhaps quality quality can be trickier if you're using more complex patterns a pattern being like the template for sewing think about like the template for sewing not not like a check or a plaid so obviously your quality it a more complex pattern doesn't necessarily equates the quality but your quality is going to be checked more if your pattern is harder to make does that make sense because you have more to look at the more you have more steps to go through and so this axis charts that and it's interesting because cos and archaq are actually very similar quality okay that's a good thing yeah it's a good thing they're very similar quality and they're also quite a similar price point but that's what it is there's nothing to do with sustainability there you, as the shopper, has to go in and be like, okay, I care about things being as biodegradable as possible. Therefore, I'm going to look for a natural material.

I care about, you know, regenerative farming or I care about animal welfare. So if I am going to buy this new, I need it to have an ethical accreditation. Obviously, there's a whole other conversation about those accreditations, which I think is not the place to go into. But that's what I mean by mindfully shopping. So if you do want to go to cause, they're not better or. or worse than anyone else. And I also think one thing that helps you frame it is sustainable fashion is actually not better

than mainstream fashion. It's less bad. Yeah, okay. Yeah. So when you're thinking, oh my God, I want a shop here, but I've just found out that, you know, it's like a major fashion giant that owns it.

Like, I'm actually feeling a little bit like, oh, am I making the right choice? Ultimately, sustainable buys not brands. Check your materials. Check the quality. Make sure we're not going to like use half your rent money on it. that's not vibe we don't like that Carrie Bradshaw was a bad

role model I won't I do she was literally the fucking worst like who needs to pay rent if you've got good shoes and it's like no I still do yeah yeah she had a like shoes had a chokeholder I never got it I'm not a shoe gal

really oh I am that's one place I don't have a budget oh see my wedding shoes I would my only like I'm so in love with them but I got them because I thought I'll wear them again I got their like velvet green and I got them because I thought I'll wear them again. That sounds stunning.

They are stunning. And I saw some. They were my dream. I really wanted, but Gucci only did them in red and black, the velvet exact style that I wanted. And then I found Euse and I actually got them in a sale. They were only in my size. I was like, oh my God. They're amazing.

But I always say I got them so that I could wear them more. And everywhere else, I'm too scared to wear them because I don't want to wear them. So I'm like, well, then it's not sustainable because I'm not wearing them. But it's really annoying. I really don't like my own heads. sometimes, it's limiting me. But, you know, like, when you have something that's too nice, you don't wear it. It's like having a nice candle.

Wear it. You've got to. Can you invite me somewhere nice so I can wear my wedding shoes? Okay, sure. I know we should just wear them, shouldn't we? I have this with my mum all the time. Like, she's got these beautiful candles that we've bought her over the years, and she just won't light them.

Yeah. And I'm like, light them. Yeah, because otherwise it's just, they're as wasteful as like anything else. But I also think it's because we put so much emotional, emotional value on items, it can be good. But we put so much emotional value on items that it begins to kind of wear us and we don't wear it. Yeah. You know, like what is this imagination that we project onto things? Does that make sense?

Yeah. Yeah. It's not like our wedding ring. It's not like an heirloom that our mom gave us when, you know, we had a baby or something. It's literally something that we went and bought that was. mass-produced. Yeah, that's actually kind of tragic. Sorry. People have them. Yeah, that's weird. Like when I've got this like one shirt, I've got this like Paul Smith's shirt. It's probably the first and really only,

yeah, one of the only sort of like designer things I owned and it was like the first thing I got. And I cannot throw it away because I put so much on to it. But now I'm thinking about all other people that have it. And I'm like, oh, it's kind of taken the magic away. It's not just me and Paul. I'm sorry, guys. But this is why I'm always like, how much do you really want it that that won't bother you? Yeah. Does that make sense? And if you really think about it, clothes are overproduced massively. Like when I go out and do my reviews, whether it's luxury or whether it's fast fashion,

I would say about only 10% of what a review is like passable at any price point, even luxury. And it's because just most things don't need to have been made. So it's a little bit harsh, but it's what it is. So you're, you said you're a shopper. Yeah, I like to shop. I like to shop. How do you shop? I don't shop often, but if I do, I absolutely love vintage designer.

Okay. What's not often? Okay, let's see. What have I bought? So August last month was my book launch. And so I bought three things and they were quite expensive. One was a dress made from scratch commissioned dress from like a Chinese designer that I found on TikTok. and it was like a silk chong sum

which is like a kind of traditional one but I made it slutty because that's my style and it was pink and I wore it for the press launch I also bought 100% linen dress from a new British designer it was about £300 oh my god it's so cute it's called her name was Ida

go to her name was Ida it's such a nice name it's so pretty but like the brand it's so pretty and she mainly just uses silk and linen and then I bought Jimmy Shoes shoes on sale. Ooh, love that. So that was the most I bought all year in one month.

All year? Yeah, I'm not saying like I don't, sometimes I buy underwear, but... Okay, okay. But in general, you don't buy new things. Not really, no. And also, I don't really accept gifting. Okay. Yeah.

I'm not saying I never accept gifting, but I don't really accept gifting because I don't want the clothes are responsibility. Once it's in my house, it's now my responsibility. I don't want that I don't want that in my life that's a burden no thank you it's a burden

I feel very burdened by my clothes I feel very upset by them no no no no no no do you wardrobe board it do you a wardrobe board it it'll make you feel better yeah I think it will yeah just do it

because it's going to autumn now it doesn't feel like it was the heat wave but you're going to autumn now and I actually had this crazy urge to go shopping actually recently and I was like this is very unlike me what is happening and I went and did a massive wardrobe warder

and I was just like oh wow just this huge weight it is isn't it it feels so wonderful that's what I want yeah it feels amazing I'm gonna try to do it should I come and supervise you I have like please I was just saying I've got no time like it's the last thing I need to do but like I really want to do it

I'm getting really down on my clothes but it is it's so bad the the effect that they have on women in the way that they don't have on men that we're made to feel no we make ourselves feel so bad with our clothes like we use it as a stick to beat ourselves with all the time and it annoys it noise me. I'm annoyed with myself but I put so much

on it. I'm annoyed every time I look I don't have at the moment positive feelings about my clothes which is just really annoying. But that's also okay. Yeah, it is okay. But it's just like I don't know, I find it really overwhelming in the like ethical

well not ethical because when you're speaking I'm like no this makes sense this is good like I know like I'm picturing in my head like a couple of the cos dresses I have I'm like they're going to last for ages I love wearing them super useful like really great second I stop fucking breastfeeding and I can start wearing like actual normal clothes again it's going to be so good

like that feels and it feels nice to be given like permission in a way to like buy things that might not be like the most like the most actually sustainable thing but it's like that's going to be sustainable to me that feels good but then everything else feels just anxiety inducing isn't it

when you first start it's like that yeah it's so interesting how sustainable is so subjective so it can be so so so do you think someone can buy something that yes you wouldn't deem sustainable but if they're going to wear it over and over again think about how men shop oh my god yes think about how men shop then it's sustainable well i wouldn't say sustainable i think their approach is and i think that's actually better than a product yeah because how many people have keep cups that they forget to take out

with them yeah hello it's me sorry i've just exposed to a lot of people are same do you have have tips this was a big question that came up as well do you have tips for plus size shoppers who want to be more mindful with their consumption but obviously it's a lot harder and it's a lot harder to be sustainable whatever that means when you're when you're shopping for plus size sizes so I feel like this is something that I had to educate myself on especially when I was writing this book and so I kind of asked one of my friends Abby to kind of school me a little bit and like share with me the experience because I can't claim to be the expert on this when that's not my experience but one thing that I can say from perhaps like a

slightly more macro view is if clothes are not made to cater to you there are just less clothes out there for you are not the problem yeah and I know maybe some people okay but I want to go one step further if you wanted to go one step further and like really hardcore about it I'd say slow fashion like made to order tailoring, stuff like that. That's a really great option. It's obviously much more expensive. But ultimately you're not the problem. And there are so

many other ways that we can be more sustainable. Like, a vegan will always be more sustainable than me if we're going to go by carbon emissions. Like, let's be honest. That makes me feel better about all the clothes I've got under my bed now. Okay, well, I feel like we're going to be hearing quite a lot today. It's a roller coaster.

But do you know what I mean? And I'm not the most sustainable person ever. I go on planes. I take cab sometimes And I think it's about Let's stop going for this ideal And then I think like judging each other And judging ourselves And just be like okay

Like what is the goal here Better quality clothes Okay let's start with that And then let's walk our way Okay I've got better quality clothes I still think I can push myself a little bit more Let's not rely on like how quick the clothes are made Let's go for stow fashion for example

I would go down that route Do you think people in general care enough about sustainability to the point that they're willing to sacrifice low prices for it. I ask this because I actually have a brand myself called, I know, it's late to bring it up, but called Light London, and it's we try and be as sustainable as we can be. We can't say that we're sustainable because like what does that mean?

Anyway, I won't go into it, but we do try really hard, but that means a higher price point. And the number one sticking point with this brand is the price point. for people they just and my impression whether this could be wrong to say but my impression is that while it might be a nice thing to have sustainability does do you think the average

consumer cares enough to pay the extra price for it because I guess my experience is that they don't I really love this question because it speaks so much to how sustainability has previously been communicated so in the way that we understand sustainability now no they don't because it is so doom and gloom it makes us feel like shit then it makes it's also so far-fetched we can't even visualize it but if i'm telling you you can shop more sustainably if you have filters put in place you will not even try to be thinking about trees

and rivers dying different colors you will just shop better because when you start to prioritize quality and you start to think about how you feel when you're shopping from this one place that you've chosen to and you're being very thoughtful about it you will just shop less and when you shop less you also save more money in the long run you know and I think it is quite a passive way to do it but I think if we realize that shopping sustainably actually benefits us financially which is what most people don't believe then I think we want to do it I actually saved money shopping from my method oh my god I sound like one of those like crazy crypto people but anyway but it's true like I went okay so in 2019 how this whole thing started as I had this horrible mental health

crisis I do not wish on anyone even the person that decided to market recycle polyester as sustainable I do not wish it on them it was horrible I literally would like look at myself in the mirror I'd be like I fucking hate you like I don't like who you are and this the mindful money method just kind of came out of this kind of personality rehab if you were you know and I was just like I can't keep doing what I'm doing there's just this huge cognitive dissonance and I feel sick about it and so when I started this method it was really supposed to be about quality fashion it wasn't actually supposed to be about sustainability but then I realized as I was going through these reviews and stores and like showing people what to look for and hemms and themes and like does this pocketwork does it not what's it made of that quality is the cornerstone of sustainability and why do brands not want to tell you about it? Because once they tell you what to look for, you're not going to want to buy their stuff.

Right? So they would rather tell you about recycled materials and their take-back schemes and all of these little cute clubs they've joined where they like plant a tree. So that's what they would rather have you know. Anyway, back onto a point, I haven't, I have ADHD, can you tell? Back on to the main point.

That year that I started talking about it was 2019 and I was like, I need to, practice what I preach. I always always had the intention anyway but I was like I really need to like go hardcore with this. And so I used to spend a couple hundred pounds. I really couldn't afford a month because I was working fashion. A couple hundred pounds a month on fast fashion clothes that I really couldn't afford. None of it would last. And I would kind of be like, well, I knew that when I bought it. So why did I buy it? Convenient. And then when I looked at how much I had spent on fashion that entire year, it's a lot of money. I won't lie. But compared to what it was before, I spent I think a thousand six hundred pounds. all year on fashion, shoes, jewellery, everything. Yes, it is a sizeable amount, but when you consider I used to spend like three to five hundred a month that I really couldn't afford. Yeah.

That's a crazy saving. It is, huge. Yeah. It is mad. The, like even, yeah, as you grow into different means and you get older and you have different priorities, it is mad that still you can so easily be like, oh, yeah, £7.99 for a T-shirt.

That's, yeah, that's, yeah, that's, that's kind of what it should cost and it's like actually mad that we've watched everything else get so much more expensive as we've got older like I remember when you could buy a packet of cigarettes for like six pounds or you could buy a fredo barb or whatever it is and it's like cigarettes and have 20 pounds like stamps have got up to one pound 25 like I saw that in the news yesterday I was like I remember when you could get a stamp for like 60p and then I'm like oh god I'm old but like but what we've watched is everything else get more expensive but we don't expect the same for our clothes and I think that's actually that are made by people yeah and I'm made by people yeah and I'm I think that's actually kind of mad. And I say this with a lot of love because I know it is cost of living and I need to check my privilege. But it's a crazy level of entitlement we have over fashion that's like, well, no, I deserve it at this price. And it's like, but someone's paying somewhere.

And like we just, we don't want to, it feels like a lot of the time we don't want to make the sacrifice, really. And that's the, that's the main problem. I think we do. We just, we just, I think we're deep down we do. I think everyone would choose to be kind. rather than not, but I think the way that we have been taught to view sustainability has made us just think, why.

I mean, I'll be honest with you, I don't, like, actively seek out sustainability content because it's low-key really quite depressing. Yeah. So, yeah, I can completely understand why somebody is like, why am I giving up, like, you know, X, Y, Z just for, just for this. Yeah, because that just me won't make a difference, like. Honestly, this method, like, it works. and I have seen it with so many people, my audience,

that it just gives them their power back to be like, no, I actually don't want that. It's actually not good enough for me. Yeah. Yeah, and I think, and then what you've just saved, like 20 quid, 40 quid, 100 quid, whatever. Yeah, and you feel better. Yeah, you feel better.

Saying no is very powerful. I love that. I'm going to do award, award it, say no to new things. Where do you shop your vintage? Vestier, collecting. And no, they do not sponsor me. it's very sad they should

I know hi I'm influenced I'm going on there immediately I do like no guys it's that bad

oh producer Daisy's just like I'm on there now but we shouldn't be on there no no no I'm just saying like I mean go check it out but do you know what I mean it's not like

and now let me go buy something after this whole talk it's like I'm not gonna buy anything I'm just gonna I'm really good at looking at things I'm not very good buy

I panic what I really like I think like it's like some nice advice to end on is where you said about taking pictures in the mirror of outfits that are yoga and I loved what you you know that you talked about

like debunking the traditional capsule wardrobe because for me that always meant a blazer a crisp white shirt a good pair of jeans you know and actually those three well two of those things would never be in my wardrobe so I liked what you

said about debunking that and realizing that capsule means like it's completely subjective and and totally tailored to the individual to you and to take pictures in the mirror of what you keep on wearing I think that's really and you can have like a folder in your phone right of all these outfits and then and then rather than saying the title of your book why don't I have anything to wear you know when we look at our very full wardroves in the morning we can be like oh no these these are like things I like to wear absolutely a visual aid yeah and I think if you want to go further this is not

in the book but if you want to go further think about what you wear on holiday like you you don't ever think, I don't have anything to wear when you're on holiday, because you've, like, planned it, you've packed it, you know, you know, well, the weather's going to be like, what activity you're going to do, who you're going to see, how fancy the places are or not fancy. This is so extreme, but, like, when I had a breakup, and I was living on the floor of my friends flat,

don't worry, it was a nice flat. I was still on the floor, though. I was living out of a suitcase, and I had never been more content with my wardrobe. Really? So I would also say, if you're really having complete meltdown, you know, yes, do your wardrobe audit, do all the steps. but if you're like finding like oh I need more assistance pack for your week

I love that I love that it's so true you never feel overwhelmed about clothes on holiday because you have it well there is no you can't be overwhelmed because there's only such a small amount and it all just it's all for the God that's so good I'm going to pack for my week I love that for your week and like you know when you go on holiday you're like oh well if I don't bring enough underwear you're like well I can buy underwear it's underwear I'll need underwear If I need to buy it, like, well, wash it. Also, laundry became so much easier. Yeah.

So, can pack for your week if you want to. Oh, God, love that. Thank you so much, Andrew. That's been so good to talk to you. Everyone, you've got to buy her book. Why don't have anything to wear? It's a very beautiful book as well. The cover is stunning.

Thanks so much for joining us. Thank you so much, guys. Thank you. Should I delete that is part of the ACAS creator network.