Should I Delete That? - “Why I’m no longer BodyPosiPanda” with Megan Jayne Crabbe

Episode Date: June 22, 2025

It’s time to start taking up space… This week, we’re joined by an icon of the internet and one of our favourite content creators - Megan Jayne Crabbe.Megan shot to fame under the handle BodyPosiPanda, becoming a leading force in the body positivity space online. Nearly a decade later, she has stepped away from that username and in this episode, she tells us why.We speak honestly about the pressures of online visibility, the toll it took on her self-esteem, and what it really means to show up as herself online. We also chat about the body positivity movement’s rise and fall, the Ozempic era, and why Megan believes we need radical authenticity. Megan’s new book We Don’t Make Ourselves Smaller Here is an insightful and empowering guide for dealing with adversity and embracing authenticity in all areas of our lives - encouraging us to exist as our biggest, most unapologetic and most whole selves. It’s out on Thursday 26th June - you can get your copy here!  Follow @meganjaynecrabbe on Instagram If you'd like to get in touch, you can email us on [e-mail] JOIN US FOR OUR BIGGEST EVER LIVE SHOW - we'll be taking over Edinburgh's iconic Usher Hall for one night only on 3rd September 2025 for an evening of unfiltered chat, big laughs, and meaningful connection, live on stage. You can buy tickets at SIDTlive.com!Follow us on Instagram:@shouldideletethat@em_clarkson@alexlight_ldnShould I Delete That is produced by Faye LawrenceStudio Manager: Dex RoyVideo Editor: Celia GomezSocial Media Manager: Sarah EnglishMusic: Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I would wake up in the morning when I was body posy panda, be terrified to look at my phone, be bracing myself for potentially, you know, hundreds of comments of people saying, you shouldn't be talking about that. So why aren't you speaking up about this? You like stop taking up this space. You're not fat enough to say X, Y, and Z. Hello and welcome back to Should I Delete that. We have a legend in the studio today.

It's Megan Jane Crab. Megan created her Instagram under the handle, Body, PosiPanda in 2015. She quickly became one of the most prominent members of the body positivity movement. Ten years on, Megan has stepped away from that username. We had an honest chat with her about the pressure she felt online, the effect it had on her self-esteem, and how she has chosen to radically lean into her own authenticity. We also asked Megan about how she feels about body positivity during the era where OZMPIC and GLP-1s have hit the mainstream, and why she thinks the body positivity movement crumbled. Megan's new book, We Don't Make Ourselves Smaller Here, is an insightful and empowering guide for dealing with adversity and embracing authenticity in all areas of our lives, encouraging us to exist as our biggest, most unapologetic and most whole selves.

It's out on this Thursday, the 26th of June. We hope you love this episode as much as we did. Here's Megan. Hello, Megan. Hello, Gorge. We're so excited to have you in here today. Thanks for having me. Very exciting. How are you?

Yeah, I'm feeling good. I'm feeling excited. I'm happy to be here. You look very colourful, as always. We've been talking about how you own zero black items of clothing. Correct from one funeral dress. I have my one funeral dress and that's it. Dopamine dressing otherwise.

Dopamine dressing. Yeah, I like it. We do not know her. No. I just feel like colour is one of the best things about, you know, like having functioning eyes. Oh God, yeah. Oh, when you say it like that. But you look chic as fuck, so, you know, stick to you to...

I don't want to look chic. I want to look fun. Okay, babes. I don't think anyone's ever described the way that you look as fun. Or me as fun. I don't know if fun's really your brand. Well, if you want, I will just start sending you links to things on vintage because I do that for everyone I know.

That would be great for you. That would be great. Okay. You are about to release a book. I am. This week. Yeah. Nonetheless.

How do you feel? Well, you know releasing a book is a very vulnerable thing. It's like, here's my heart and soul on some paper. Tell me whether you like it, please. But yeah, I'm feeling good. It's called We Don't Make Ourselves Smaller Here. It is an exploration of all the ways that women are taught to shrink themselves. So my first book, it was called Body Positive Power,

and it was all about the body and diet culture and eating disorders. And after that, I kind of realized, hang on a minute, the body was just the start for me. And there are so many different ways that I have been making myself small, shrinking myself, and that women in general do. So I went through all these other places in my life, my relationships, my sex life, you know, the choices that I've made, my identity. And mapped out, where have I been shrinking and how can I reclaim a bit more of myself and take a bit more of my wholeness?

back. And then I realized that was a book. And I wrote it. And it was a really vulnerable process. It's kind of like intense therapy. And I'm very honest. I've shared a lot in there. So yeah, I'm proud of it. What are some of the areas of your life then that you identified as like areas where you were making yourself smaller? So the chapters are body. We're starting with body again because I think that's a pretty universal place where women are told to make themselves smaller. Then we go to heart. So that's relationships, sexuality, life and self. So I've covered some pretty big bases. But yeah, the main places were all the diet culture bullshit and then my relationships and how I viewed sex. And then, yeah, the choices I was making

with my life and, you know, the expected life path and deviating away from that. And then things like how I saw my value in my productivity, things like moral perfectionism. I've dug into a lot of places where that have basically just made me feel shit about myself over the years and dismantled them. Yeah. I think so much of them like tie in together and like I'm struck as you're talking about sex even and the connection instantly that makes with the bot for me in my head. I'm like that seems so correlated to like self-confidence to how you feel in your own.

body in terms of what you feel like you're entitled to or even like having a confidence to like know what you want. And I feel like that's such a, I'm always excited to hear that women are having that conversation because I think it is really important. Yeah, for sure. And one of the first chapters I wrote in sexuality was about masturbation. And I looked back on kind of the first time I ever masturbated. And I feel like I was a bit late to the game and like all my friends were kind of already doing it and I was still carrying around, you know, this shame and that's wrong and that's bad. And as I reflected on it and wrote about it, I was like, wow, that is such effective brainwashing to literally alienate women from their own body

and the pleasure that their own bodies can create. That is genius. Like, it's been done so effectively over time. Wow. And such an important first step, I think, in reclaiming such a massive part of ourselves. That's such a good point because it's like, when you think about little boys, like we learn about their wet dreams, which is basically like sleep masturbating. Like for them, it's like, you're just, you're going to do it so much, you're just going to do it in your sleep. But for girls, it's just like disgusting, dirty shame.

I just thought that girls didn't do it. It was just a boy thing. Exactly. It's just what, I didn't think it existed for women. Exactly. And all the boys in my class were all like bragging about their wanks and how much porn they'd seen. And I remember when I was like 13, a boy said.

to me, have you ever done a blowjob? Because you shouldn't even bother unless you can deep throat. I'm 13. I don't know what. What are you talking about? Like, I haven't even had a wank. You shouldn't even bother unless you can deep throw. Lord. Fucking I come there. Lord. Jesus. This boy has not, has not ever been touched by a female. Let's get that straight. Okay, I'm not going to bother. I'm just going to write that one off. I'm unbothered. Oh my God, it's unhinged.

Bless him. I bet he, I hope that when he lies in bed at night, he goes, oh, God, why do I say that? What a stupid thing to say. Yeah. And, you know, in fairness, he was just repeating the script that he had picked up from porn or whatever else. But, you know, such a clear double standard from way back when, you know, as soon as we're kind of exploring that side of ourselves, we just don't get any information. or reassurance or you know we're just shame is just piled up to us did you feel any like did you have to sort of write through it did you feel any kind of shame like coming up as you're writing that

you were like no I've got to get past this is still important like um I don't think I felt much shame in my general sexuality but I did in that chapter I wrote some um content warning some very honest stuff about my experiences with sexual assault. And I wasn't expecting it to come out. I hadn't planned on writing about it. But as I was going through this chapter, it kind of just poured out. And I was like, whoa, this has really informed my relationship

with sex and with men. And yeah, I want to be honest about this because it was, you know, it was one of those experiences is that I really tried to brush off and minimise and put to the back of my head and that every single woman I know has experiences like that, right? That we at the time probably didn't label as that was assault or that was wrong even. But as I was writing about it, I got a lot of clarity and found a lot of grace for myself and that kind of self-forgiveness for, you know, pushing that down for so long.

so it was a really revealing chapter to write and in the end I was like god damn like we go through a lot we go through a lot and we are taught to just shake it off and not even say oh that was wrong that shouldn't have happened and it's a miracle that any of us can have like a healthy relationship with sex with our bodies with anything with all the shit that we go through you're so right an absolute miracle yeah It's not the women want to have sex. I think it's all the time. It's just like you're not taught really how to enjoy it.

So you've got to learn on the job, which is a bit of a fucker. And then it's like, and then you've got to within that, it's like you've got to be performative to an extent. You've got to be comfortable within yourself enough that you can enjoy it. It all sounds a lot like hard work really by the end of you just say, you know what? I'm just not going to go about it. Well, you are both still, I was going to say, dealing with men. So I'm in a different boat now. I've kind of tapped out of that one, guys.

It's a bit easier over here, I'm not going to lie. Did you talk about that in the book as well? Yes, yeah. I've written a chapter about coming out. And I would say that I came out quietly. I didn't really make a big kind of splash. And part of me felt like I should, although I like owed that to my audience or, you know, the community.

But I have shared so much for myself online over the years. every little detail. And when I started to really think about my sexuality and explore that, I was like, no, actually, I think I should maybe have this for me for a minute. And let myself do a little bit of exploring. And now I'm much more open and much more comfortable when I, you know, I have a fucking wonderful girlfriend and I share about her a lot and all the various gay things that we do. But I took my time with it. And that felt really nice. That felt like good boundaries, Megan. We haven't had many of those in the past, but we have some now. Yeah, I think that's very wise and very sensible. And like, it's yeah it's hard when you're online and you and like your presence on I mean I think we're all

quite like sherry aren't we online so I guess that's something that would have been you'd have felt like compelled to share it but actually like why should you yeah for sure so deeply personal and private and yeah but I never did have any boundaries I think because like I don't know about you guys but I genuinely started as an online diary so I did not have boundaries and you kind of learn the hard way that you're going to have to deal with the consequences of that and you know people are going to maybe not handle your stuff with as much sensitivity as they should or people are going to feel really entitled to every part of you and I think it's harder to enforce the boundaries afterwards than having like gone in with them from the start

100% do you have like did you have any do you have more now I have always had a wariness I think I've been burned a lot by like the press and I'm quite aware of like how that can be used against me. So like I've always had that kind of boundary. So yes. And I think I found it easier within motherhood as well to have boundaries. Because I really try not to share, you know, we do my kids names in the back of their heads. And then that's pretty much the end of their existence online. But I think it took motherhood for me to really like feel confident within my own boundaries because I was like, no, this is bigger than me now, right? Does that make sense?

What about you? Same with, well, obviously I don't have the like the press element to deal with, but same with motherhood, definitely. That's when I felt like strongest in my, and it was just like a, it was a really automatic thing. It's something I didn't even have to think about. I was just like, I'm not sharing him, no way. Like it's just not happening.

You do feel like you owe, but again, I think that's part of being a woman as well. Yeah. I mean, I don't feel like, I think we've kind of got to a really weird place, it's tangent, but a really weird place with the internet where it's like even up for discussion that we might owe our children. You know what I mean? But I understand how people feel like that because it's like, well, you know, and I think also for like those of us that have been doing it for a long time and for whom it's our income, it's like, well, yeah, like people are invested in our lives and this is our life and like when do you, when are you allowed to stop? Yeah. Like when are you allowed to keep something for yourself? And I imagined for you

because you've been like an OG in this space for so long and you've been you've got such an incredible community of people but they met a version of you how long have you been doing this like 15 10 yeah like they met a version of you 10 years ago yeah and and I think that's something people really struggle with is like our evolution and it's like people often just keep you where they met you oh my gosh yes Taylor Swift said exactly the same thing in her documentary did she well which there's this kind of um theory that for famous women, you freeze at the age at which you become famous, which is why,

you know, people still expect Britney Spears to be in pigtails in the schoolgirl uniform. And like for Taylor, people struggle so much when she evolves into these different eras. And I think the case is probably similar for content creators. Yeah, they, they met me 10 years ago and I was very, you know, young and positive and colorful and happy and smiley. And, you know, I'm still the things in part, but I'm also older and fatter and gayer and more political. So it's been a, it's been a journey. And for a long time, I think I felt like I had to continue to just be that one version that people were comfortable with. And also, I, you know, entered this space as body posy panda. That is how people knew me. I was the body positivity girl. So the pressure of that

to only be that, to be that every day in all the right ways and please everyone and say all the right things constantly. In the end, it was too, too much. And that's one of the major reasons why I dropped that name and just started using my name because I was like, well, I need to be a whole human. I need to allow myself the space to be me. And maybe some people aren't going to like that and maybe they're going to drop off. And I have to be okay with that. I made a new year's resolution. like a couple of years ago that was to lose followers. So I was like, no, I'm going to be so myself that people are going to unfollow me. And I'm going to challenge myself to be okay with that.

I think people don't understand that. When you are your brand, which obviously, when you particularly have a different name, you know, like you have your brand name, right? But you can't just show up as the brand because people also expect all of you. And I don't think people are aware of that when they follow, that that is what they expect from people. But it's like if you aren't authentic and you don't give 100% of yourself, they will go digging until they find the authenticity and they will try and catch you out

and they will prove that you're something that you're not. So you have this impossibility where it's like, I need to give you everything, but you're not going to like everything. See, I either have to accept that you're not going to like me or I have to accept that you're going to go digging for a reason not to like me. And it's, I don't, I don't think people really understand

the pressure that that can put on a brand like yours when you, when you were, where, when you, when you, were what you were. That's too many words at the beginning. Yeah. And I think people have chilled out slightly. I don't know. Maybe that's me being overly optimistic. I do feel like people have gotten a bit better at respecting boundaries and, yeah, being respectful in general to creators. How do you think that? Do you think that? I'm sorry. I'm not sure. Do you not think? I don't know. I think, and I was just kind of like thinking about it and like, what do we owe? And I think, like I think I at least am like hyper aware of the fact that people don't like women having

boundaries but you're right maybe maybe that's gotten a bit better maybe people are more respectful now but I feel like because we have people like Michelle Elman who you know talked about boundaries a lot and like chapel row and setting some hard boundaries yeah we we just are seeing it more and the backlash is absolutely still there but more of us don't give a fuck which is lovely. And I guess like we're seeing it and it's becoming more of a debate now. So at least we're like talking about it and like thinking critically about it. Yeah, you're right. Yeah. I also think we are giving less fucks, like all of us collectively. You know, we've all been in this space for like 10 years and it's like hopefully as we go. It's like if you, if we still

gave the same amount of fucks that we did at the beginning, we'd be dead. Yeah. It's unsustainable. It is unsustainable. And then somehow this is a tiny room. Yeah. If we're talking about it's big enough building. It's not nearly big enough the fucks we gave. Yeah, you're right, that's so true. But then that feels like, that feels like quite specific to like influence the stuff, right? And I feel like we are in a time now in the world where women are becoming smaller in every way, like physically, metaphorically.

It's like we're seeing the like the rise again of like really conservative. values, the rise of tradwives, which I know is a really complicated topic, but it, and the rise of thinness as well, like, you know, ultra thinness. And a lot of, like, I'm just going to call it what it is, like proana content, which is everywhere, like on social media. Pro anorexia content. Sorry, sorry, pro anorexia content. And so when I saw the title of your book, I mean, my first thought was, we need this now more than ever because it feels like we're being screamed up to be smaller. Yeah.

So we need this now more than ever. But also, I wondered if it felt how you felt about releasing a book in a time like this. Does it feel scary? Or do you just feel very, like, passionate about, no, this is the time for it? It doesn't feel scary because we've been here, you know? Like, I've been doing this and I've been saying these things for 10 years. and I am not changing because of whatever is trending or whatever I'm being shouted at about from my phone

about how I should be or how women should be. These are my values. They have been the same and they will continue to be the same. I think I didn't want it to be a time where it was more needed than ever. When I started writing it three years ago, I feel like we were kind of seeing the beginnings of Thin is in, creeping back in,

and, you know, conservatism was well on the way. but I was hopeful that maybe we were still going in the right direction because we saw around 2017 we saw this peak of body positivity and all this representation and diversity on screen and things were really feeling like they were truly changing and so it's heartbreaking to have had this swing back I have been sickened watching this all play out and yeah you're right like a book like this probably is needed now more so than ever but I think ultimately the aim for all of us is for these conversations to not be needed. It would be lovely if it wasn't needed anymore

and body positivity was not even a thing to talk about. Because it was just normal. Can I ask like a diary of a CEO question? Can I ask a business question? Yeah, sure. Go on, Steve. Sorry, yeah, as I was. How often do you take your...

I'm kidding. Your brand was body posy panda and then you changed your username to be your own name. As this has been a shift, as we've seen, you know, like body positivity, it was a really big, like, marketing tool for a lot of brands, which did make campaigns, I guess, obviously more diverse, amazing, but it crudely, it did, I guess, generate more like commercial opportunities for you and for, like, for everyone within this space. Have you noticed a shift in your work and a shift in kind of brands attitudes or the kind of landscape of the, of the marketing world and the marketing of how you operate since. it's changed.

Yeah, I mean, I definitely think there's been a shift in the kind of a commercial landscape of being a body positive influencer. We're definitely seeing less, quote unquote, diversity campaigns. So, yeah, it has had an impact. Maybe I expanded myself at the right time anyway because I have been able to, like, continue having a career from this, not necessarily just from the being the body positive person. But yeah, there's only a few brands who have carried on with the messaging. And they were generally the ones who that was their messaging from the start.

So a brand like Dove, like that's been their messaging for 25 years. So yes, they capitalised on the moment in a way, but then they carried on. So they weren't just being, you know, tokenistic. They weren't just jumping on the bandwagon. But a hell of a lot of others were just jumping on the bandwagon. And we've seen that. We've seen that reflected now in, you know, on runways and on our screens and everywhere. Yeah.

I've noticed it. I mean, I don't even know if I can or should say this, but there was a brand that I worked with. It was a long term. Like I had like an ambassador role for the brand. And it kind of just disappeared out of nowhere. I found out that it was because they wanted to move away from any kind of body confidence. Like they didn't want to be, that didn't want to be seen as one of their values anymore. Shut up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Honestly. Can you, after we stop recording, can you tell me that is? I absolutely will. Yeah. And I get it. do, you know, things do change and trends come and go. I guess I never thought that it was a trend. Body positivity, okay, maybe, you know, looking back, it was clear that it was a trend. Like, it was huge. It exploded out of nowhere and it was never going to be able to keep up that momentum and, you know, but I didn't think it would, I didn't think it would die a sudden, literally go off the edge of a cliff. Well, I think, um, if we were being more

critical of it at the time. We obviously can see historically over the last 150 years that the diet industry has existed. There are always these pendulum swings. There are always these changing body ideals. It happens intentionally. It's very profitable to spend a certain amount of time saying this is the ideal. And then, oh, well, it's changed. You have to spend money again. You have to do all these things to get yourself there. So we did know that we could have predicted that this was coming and the diet industry would just morph itself and obviously with the entrance of GLP ones and their widespread abuse

this was going to happen and Thin was going to come back and I think there are still people saying no it wasn't a trend no we're not buying into this we're not going anywhere their voices just seem to be quieter now well they're not being amplified

you know yeah you can only do so much on your own and your voice is only as loud as it is. You know, it's only when you come together or when they're brought together that you can make any sort of significant noise. And it's also scary to go against the grain and challenge the status quo. Like, it's really scary, isn't it?

Truly. I don't know about you, but every time I even mention GLP ones, even if it's not in like a super critical light, the ambush of... Oh my God, ambush. Yeah, genuinely, people are just outraged that you would even question this thing

And I'm like, obviously this is a nuanced conversation. Obviously this is more nuance that can fit into like a single post or something like that. However, of course, I don't like that this quote unquote miracle weight loss drug has shifted our collective self-esteem and body image. Of course I'm going to have feelings about that and say things about that. And we talk about this, but like I find that that blind criticism of any kind of critical thinking about JLP1s, and its, like, cultural impact is preventing good, meaningful, like, conversation, like important conversations and derailing them, because we end up talking about, we end up, like, going through the, like, the intricacies of, like,

it's the what about ism? Yeah. So, well, what about this kind of person? What about this kind of person? Well, yes, obviously they can make decisions for themselves. Bodily autonomy exists. But we're talking about the wider cultural impact of these things, rather than which individuals should or shouldn't be, you know,

making these decisions for themselves. We are delighted to announce our biggest live show ever. For one night only, we are taking over the iconic Edinburgh, Usher Hall on the 3rd of September to bring you an unforgettable night of completely unfiltered chat, big laughs, hopefully. And meaningful connection and conversation. Our favourite part of the live shows is always that you get to meet each other

and we are so proud of the community that we've fostered here. And this night isn't just about coming to see us. It is about meeting each other and forging new friendships. Whether you're in Scotland already or you fancy a trip to beautiful Edinburgh, this is our biggest live show ever and we would love to see you there. Check the link in the show notes or in our bios to buy tickets and secure your place in the pre-show meetup, meaning you can come alone and meet other like-minded should I delete that fans.

Brought to you by Simprove, the UK's number one gut supplement. Can I take the opportunity as I am sitting in the presence of two of the OG body confidence, body positivity creators online, to talk to you about the state of GLP ones now and the conversation around it? Because obviously Al and I have talked about it. We did it in the body image series we did in January. But even then, it's been like five months. The landscapes change so much. What do you think, just generally, what do you think about where we're at now with the state of the conversation rather than people being on it? Do you know what I mean?

Because individually we do accept that people, it's completely everyone's right to do what they want and everyone's got their own needs and their own whatever. But the conversation around it, how are you guys both feeling about that? I'm scared. I'm worried. I am genuinely concerned that we are going to see a repeat of FenFEN

that was obviously this hugely popular weight loss drug in the 80s and 90s in America and, you know, millions of people. took it. And it wasn't until years later that they realized, oh, there are serious side effects. People are dying. People have heart valve damage. Then they were all recalled. Then they were banned. But it was years. And we do not know. We just do not know the long-time effects, particularly for people who are taking this for aesthetic weight loss, not for any health reasons. We don't know what's happening there or what the state of play will be in years, in a few years time. And that to me is

scary and I think I think it indicates that the desire to be thin and to fit the beauty standard never really went away and maybe body positivity was like a nice option at the time when people thought oh yeah well I can't I can't reach the ideal and then suddenly they were given a quick fix solution and it crumbled yeah what's where are you at I find it incredibly depressing that people are aware that we don't we we just we can't predict the long-term effects of this but it doesn't matter they'll take it anyway like I keep seeing memes or like TikTok's like ozempic like making me thin now and making me rich later you know like when the lawsuits when they can like sue novo Nordisk right Christ um at least they're funny

no it's funny but it's like it's like it's so indicative of where we're at but we're at but where we've always been. It's like thinness over everything. Yeah. And it's just, it's really horrifying. But like I'm scared to talk about, I don't think I'm scared to talk about JLP ones.

I just sometimes don't think I've got it in me because it's like there is, I have to put so many caveats in and like cater to so many people. And it's like it's just, if sometimes a conversation doesn't even feel worth having, especially when so many people are on it. It feels like there are, everyone's on it. Everyone's on it.

Everyone's on it. It's like there are so many friends I know, family members that I've got there on it now. It feels like it's really like trickled, I don't even trickle down. It's like flooded down. Yeah, truly, truly. From like celebrities, influences like. I've got people in secret on it now. Have you?

Which I feel like is a really weird twist. And that actually feels the most toxic thing to me because it's like I actually, when people are, and no one owes me anything. No one owes me a truth. No one owes me what, you know, do whatever the fuck you want. But, you know, when it's like, when people are saying like, I'm going to do it, I'm going to try it. It's like, oh, you know, crack on whatever. I'm going to feel away or I'm not. And it's not, none of my business, what you're going to do.

But I, the secrecy around it is actually starting to, and I keep getting from it, do you think she's, do you think she's? And I really hate that. Interesting. It feels very like, I don't know, it feels, it feels just so like naughty is coded. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. It doesn't feel like the kind of brave and lovely and accepting feminism that body positivity brought with it. and this huge wave of loveliness.

It just, it feels much more insidious somehow. Do you know what's tricky as well? I think for myself and maybe for you guys as well, we do kind of have to caveat the fact that when we speak about intentional weight loss, we are not having the same experience as people who exist in larger bodies. And so we cannot deny that for fat people, losing weight is going to lead to you being treated better. It's going to lead to more access, you know, you're going to get discriminated against less.

So there's that, you know, we have to kind of hold our hands up and say, yeah, and I don't personally understand that or experience that. So therefore, I understand. I have, you know, empathy and I'm not going to make you feel bad. We can't argue with people who say my health has improved because I've lost weight through Ozempick. Like, I can't argue with that. That's your health.

We also can't argue with anybody who wants to go on it for whatever reason because it's a complete inevitability that they want to go on it and they want to be thinner because every single thing, you know, as you've written a book literally for this reason, everything in society tells us be smaller and it will be better. Yeah, and people are just trying to survive and do what they believe is going to make them feel fulfilled and happy. And I have always, I've always taken this line of, I do not want to shame the individual. I do not want the individual to feel like crap because they are doing what they believe they have to do to be good enough within our culture. However, that doesn't mean that we are not talking about the overall cultural messaging. We still

have to talk about the system, even if, you know, we don't want the individual to feel like crap. But it's, it's so true. Like, I understand with my whole heart and soul why so many people are taking it. I fully, fully understand it. And I will say that at some of my, you know, more difficult, like, moments when I kind of feel, like, fed up of this, like, of what we're doing. And I feel like we're just, like, shouting into, you know, like, screaming.

into a black hole and like everyone around me is getting thinner and like there's just all this content around like oh this is what it feels like to be thin and or like to not be fat and it's like people running down the street and like skipping and like it can get to you in in your lower moments you know and it's yeah it's just I don't know and like that's me who's done so much work on this like fuck I've had I don't want to count how many years of therapy and like I've researched this so much I've done it. I've written a book about it. All of my content is about it. And I can sometimes, sometimes at my lowest, like, feel like that. So I get it with my, all of my being. I understand it. Yeah. And I think that's where we can't underestimate the power and the importance of simply representing a different option. We are not here shouting and saying, you can't do this. You're bad if you do this. But we are being like, hey, look, we're choosing not to. We're opting out. That is also an option. like that is look at this valid way to exist as your whole self and not hate yourself there is still power in that and I think I think we've talked about this before Alex

for a long time we were kind of told that we weren't doing enough or we weren't radical enough or our messaging you know could be stronger or yeah we weren't fat enough basically to be talking about what we were talking about and I think now that we've swung back around to this time it's really like, oh, okay, no, this messaging is hella needed, has always been. And actually all of that talk and criticism of us was negative in the long run because it suppressed so many other people from speaking up and from taking this position. And now look where we are. You were still right.

You're so right. And a lot of the criticism is like was and is still valid in the sense of that like we don't live in like fat bodies um but i agree with you that yeah and i and i kind of always struggled with how to navigate that but you al have silenced yourself so much i think after years of just being nitpicked because you've always had such incredible things to say you've done so much research you have a lot of authority on this topic on the topic of diet culture but i think you have just been needled enough that sometimes you just think well fuck I can't. I don't deserve the microphone here.

Because it is a grey area, isn't it? Because like... And I felt the same. That's why I'm not Bologna Ponda Panda anymore. Yeah. Is it? Yeah. Those people saying you should not be the voice of this. You should be taking up less space. And like you said, two things can be true at once. I can absolutely recognise the privileges that I have.

Recognise that the mic needs to be passed around, apps are fucking lootly. And yet still believe that what I do and what I say has value and is having a positive impact. those are really tricky things to hold at the same time i can do it now but i couldn't do it for a lot of years and i my self-esteem was wrecked trashed for a long time was it yeah what about it two things which which part of you because i think when we think about self-esteem we think like we think oh i don't like the way i look but it's so much bigger than that you know your self-esteem can be connected to so much so much of who you are and and so much of your personality and

I think like that's something that perhaps we don't consider online. It's like, yeah, you can make your peace with this, but you can still be incredibly insecure about another part of whatever. Oh, for sure. But so I guess I'm asking which part of your self-esteem was, which part of you was knocked and what knocked it? I think that's a great question. And it's kind of why I wrote this book, right? Because my body image was fine, lovely. I didn't care if people came on the internet and called me any name under the sun or attacked what I looked. like. But when people came on the internet and attacked my integrity, my intentions, whether I was a good person, that absolutely destroyed my self-esteem in terms of who I believed I was,

like what I believed my values were, why I showed up every day. And that's taken a hell of a lot of therapy to navigate my way through and to like stand in who you know you are. Like damn, we are the only person who has known ourselves for our entire lives, will be. be with ourselves every single day for the rest of our lives, how dare anyone else come into our space and try and tell us who we are or what we believe or what our intentions are? That is wild. And a hell of a lot of it is just straight up projection. I think when you are someone who occupies a platform that is very visible, often you become a scapegoats. And I've spoken about this a lot in therapy. When you're at the top of the pyramid, you're the easiest one to throw

things at and people have all these complicated feelings which are valid and people feel away about their experience and they see you and they see you as almost this um this example of privilege that they don't have um and an easy target to then level all of their uncomfortable feelings at and that is a lot to take and you know i would wake up in the morning when i was body posy panda be terrified to look at my phone be bracing myself for potentially you know hundreds of comments of people saying, you shouldn't be talking about that. So why aren't you speaking up about this? You, like, stop taking up this space.

You're not fat enough to say X, Y, and Z. And it's difficult because there is validity there. But on the other hand, hey, I don't come from, I haven't come into the conversation of body positivity from the perspective of being a plus-sized person. I've come in from nearly losing my life to anorexia. And that is also a valid route to be coming into this conversation. It's taken me a long time to be able to stand and say,

yeah, that is also valid. There's space for all, for both of these perspectives. And when we are actually aligned, that's when this movement can do shit. But the movement was so fractured and there was so much infighting and so much, so much that we've crumbled. Which is quite typical of left wing conversations across the board. Yeah, big time. Yeah, you're so right.

We did. We got so caught up in, like, dissecting what was happening, like, within the movement. Yeah. that yeah we lost the point of like what the movie was about and also what was just happening online like we were so obsessed with like who can use which hashtags and you know what's happening in the comment section of this influencer babe the world outside what are we doing how are we actually progressing what are our aims what are the aims of this movement that's something that I think body positivity we never got on on track with we never actually had a kind of unified

aim. We wanted more representation and we got it for a while, but then what? Then we just got so stuck into, you know, this moral perfectionism and picking each other apart that, like you said, the left gets into. I'm also going to say something really, which is probably, I have no authority to say it. But if you were a brand and you were going to do a body positive or a body confident campaign, and this was actually a meeting that Alex and I had yesterday with a brand about this, and we ended up having a really long conversation about the semantics that they were using because they were scared of getting it wrong. It will get to a point when you are playing with someone else's money as brands do and as marketing managers do where they just think,

well, I'm not going to go fucking near that. Because our comment section will just be full of, well, she's not this and she's not that and you've used this and this is a problematic and I don't like, and it's like, well, they're not going to bother because we are holding a, and I don't want to be on the side of brands ditching it because it's not cool that they ditched it. It's not cool that it was a trend. But I can understand why when you are looking at a marketing campaign, it is safer to go for something that isn't going to have a comment section full of this isn't good enough. Because really, no matter what a brand did, there was a point where nothing they would have done would have been good enough because there would have been some

intersectionality they'd missed. And that has felt like a shame because it did feel like we cut off our nose to spite our faces a bit there. And yeah, I don't want to be on the side of the brand and I'm being devil's advocate a bit. But it does feel like at that meeting we had yesterday, And we're just thinking, like, what a shame? What shame? Even this good thing that a brand's going to do is scary to them because of what we've done to the movement. It's so true because I'm trying to think of like the campaigns from back then

and I feel like Savage Fenty, like they were the brand that was held up as like the pinnacle of diversity. Diversity, yeah. And everything else was like compared to it. And yeah. Well, I mean, Victoria's Secret was compared to it, which is very fair. It's so funny that now they're trying to do divesties.

Babe, you are, you missed the boat. You are late. You are so late to the party, and truly. They're running down back. Like, you've said who you are. We know who you are. Yes. Like, own it.

And just leave us alone. Just be fat phobic and leave us alone. Just do what you need to do, honestly. Like, please, I can't be bothered to, like, think about Victorian secret anymore. It's so annoying. But also, you know, obviously, like, the brands were never going to save us. It was nice that they were, you know, helping, they were amplifying. We had that representation.

But ultimately, with these movements, it has to be about more than the brands and the commercial side of things. And that's where, like I said, I think we were lacking. We didn't have plan. With your own mental health at that time when you're scared to go on your phone. God, I texted you yesterday saying, I just felt like I can't go on my phone at the moment because my DMs are just on fire. No reason. Everyone's cross. Everyone's cross and they take it out on us.

So that's, you know, that's between them, whatever, it's fine. But what was the point where you were like, no, I can't. Like, it sounds like you had this moment where it's like, right, body positive panda's going and I'm just going to be Megan and I'm going to write this book and I'm going to take up space or whatever. Was there a moment, was there a rock bottom? Was there a catalyst? Or was it just death by a thousand cuts?

And you just thought, fuck it. It was a long buildup for a long time. And then it happened during the pandemic. I was chronically online, as all of us. were at that time. And it was a really intense time to be online. And I remember there was a massive cancellation of someone who I knew who was a friend of mine. And it kind of just made me take a massive step back and be like, what the fuck are we doing? How is this useful or good to feminism to any movement? I cannot keep operating in this way. And I cannot keep living

under the fear that I'm going to be next, even though I wake up and I try my best every single day. And I tried to say everything right and do everything right. I cannot live like this anymore. And I took like a month away from social media, which I had never done. I had literally posted every single day for fucking seven years at this point. And I took a step back. And I read all these books like about the impact of social media on our brains and why we're so addicted to it and how it taps into this like tribalistic elements in us. And yeah, I realized I could not go back and continue on the same way. For the sake of my mental health and my humanity, I had to give myself more grace than the internet was willing to give me.

Good for you. Yeah. Thanks. Fucking hard. People like me a lot less. Like, and that's the thing. Like, don't get me wrong. I have lost shit tons of followers. My engagement is down. I mean, everyone's engagement is down, but my engagement is down. Like, I am not as liked. I am not as successful, but experiencing that, you know, has led to me building a much more unshakable self-esteem. And that is worth a hell of a lot more than the numbers on the internet. It's ironic, isn't it? That like that, the loss of followers and the, you know, the people liking you less actually coincided with you liking yourself more, I'm guessing, or like, yeah, having a stronger sense of self. Yeah, it's funny. It's worth it. It's worth it, guys.

jump off I actually quit I'm going to quit I'm going to quit I used to live in fear of all doing this like there was a period I'm impulsive enough

no I feel like I think signing the studio together was good because we own this now which is a good thing you know I know yeah that was tying her down but for a while

there before we moved in together I was like I woke up every morning I was like today's a day she's going to go she's going to join no I'm like oh you can't it's too complicated

The paperwork. We are, like, we are wedded. We really are. It would be easier to get divorced. Yeah. Love that for you guys. Yeah, no, we are stuck. How do you, like, how do you see your platform?

Like, where do you see it going? Of course, I was like, I'm interviewing you. But like, where do you see this on five years? But, like, where do you see it going now? Do you have a plan for it? Or do you just want to carry on the way you are being, like, authentically? I have no fucking clue. I have no clue. And I would be lying if I said that, you know, I don't wake up some days and think I don't want to do this social media thing anymore. It's been a long time. It's been a long time and it is very wearing over a long period of time. It is also an incredibly privileged position to be in and I'm very lucky to call this a job. However, it does take a toll. So there are days where, you know, I think I can't do this anymore. And I was talking to my girlfriend about this and she said that she'd been having conversation with someone about social media and especially with, you know, TikTok and everything going video and how addictive that is. This person was saying that,

social media is kind of like a can of pringles to young people. They pop it. They're going to keep taking it. They're not going to stop. They're going to keep going until the tube is empty. You can't change the entire contents of the tube. But if you can show up and just be like a little bit of goodness in between every 10th pringle, then, you know, young people are still going to consume that.

And that surely is a worthwhile endeavour. I like that. I'll be a bringle. Yeah. Yeah. If that's my, if that's my, if that's the role I've got to play. It'll be a pringle of goodness. in all the shit.

Either way, I'm a pringle. We're all pringles on that metaphor. So that is what I'm currently doing. I love that. I'm thinking, well, you know what? I could quit, but then this was all just going to carry on being the hellscape that it is.

And I am someone, you know, one less person trying to put a bit of goodness into it. So for now, it still feels worthwhile to me to show up in that way. I've got no idea where it's going to be. I think it's more than worthwhile. I honestly, genuinely love your content and I always have and you were you were the first person I think

I found online whose story I felt really mirrored my own of like anorexia and then recovery and weight gain because a lot of the stories from anorexia of anorexia recovery that I'd heard in fact all of them before like people kind of remained around the same weight yeah and that just wasn't the case for me or they like segue into fitness exactly yeah yeah yeah exactly It's a whole thing. Or like, yeah, orthorexic kind of habits. But, and I've just, yeah, your story resonated with me so much. And I've just, I've absolutely loved your content ever since all different iterations

of it. But especially the one now because you can tell that you are like happy and like you, like you, like really being you. I think that's really cool. I think that shows. I appreciate that. And also I like to think that we all, we might be swinging a bit back towards. people want real people, people want authentic people and they don't just want to see the highlight

real all the time. I think people are craving that, you know, what we used to use social media for, which is genuine human connection or, you know, as much as bit as we can get there. Oh yeah, I think people are self-aware enough to know, like we are on it all the time. Like you say, we're always eating the Pringle. So it's like, I think people do accept that within that they need to see something. We do crave connection. And if you're on your phone for like eight hours a day or whatever you are going to need something within that that speaks to you otherwise you just rot right and like people are we do thankfully to have a bit of self-awareness to be aware of like that basic need I guess yeah hopefully for some longer time this is a crazy

time that we're alive in isn't it absolutely wild absolutely wild I was at eight hours I was like that's a full job like you know what I'm clocking in for a full day of work online depressing. It's crackers. My screen time's about eight hours, but I have to reason that it's playing the fucking nursery rhymes all the time as I'm walking around, around, around, around. Yeah, that doesn't count.

That's fine. Slowly losing my mind. Bless you. Maybe she'd get like an old school boombox just to lower the screen time. Oh my God, I love that. Please, please. I will be on all the local Instagram accounts, but my woman's lost it.

Same as it to the sun playing again out of the boom box. Thank you so much for coming on, Megan. Thanks for having me. So great to chat to you. We are going to leave the links in the show notes. Firstly, to your Instagram, but very importantly to your book, which is out on Thursday, which is called We Don't Make Ourself Smaller here. Congratulations and we can't wait to see.

Thanks. Should I delete that as part of the A-Class Creator Network?