Should I Delete That? - Why is Blake Lively being cancelled?

Episode Date: August 21, 2024

In this week's episode, the girls take a deep dive into the current viral takedown of Blake Lively. They discuss why she is being cancelled, whether she should be and what this means for women in the public eye...Vote for us in the British Podcast Awards Listener's Choice category here: https://www.britishpodcastawards.com/votingFollow us on Instagram @shouldideletethatEmail us at [e-mail] by Daisy GrantMusic by Alex Andrew Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, and welcome back to Should I Delete That. I'm Em Clarkson. I'm Alex Light. We have a serious episode for you today. Let's jump straight in because normally these episodes are 30 minutes long, but I think it's fair to say this one's going to be significantly longer. We don't even know what this is going to be. This is the episode we talked about on Monday.

This is about Blake Lively. And I guess wider than that, it's about. cancel culture. It's about the media's treatment of women. It's about the expectations on men in the public eye versus women in the public eye. I am excited and kind of terrified to get into this. But for the first time ever ahead of a, is it just me episode, I've bought notes. I've got research. You do. You've got, I've bought my file of facts. Yeah. Multiple pages of notes. I didn't want to, I wanted to do this justice because it's something we're both very passionate about. And we've had a lot.

I've had a lot of noise in my DMs after I spoke about in my stories. We've had a lot of requests to talk about it. Right. And I want to get into that as well. I want to know what the noise has been in your DMs and what the general like consensus or the response has been.

But I think let's go back to the beginning and like let's talk about why is Blake Lively being cancelled? So if you are head in the sand completely new to this, let's fill you in. Blake Lively, who I have just historically known as the woman with the best hair in Hollywood. Yes.

Unbelievable. I've always just been obsessed with her. So this is not the BBC. This is not an impartial view. Just so you know, you are dealing with someone who has always thought Blake Lively's hair and general body and face and personality. Everything. It's great. Yeah.

I've always been kind of like, yeah, I always always always like I really like doing gossip girl. Okay. And I thought she was great. Anyway, so she did Gossip Girl, and then she kind of got into Hollywood, baby, after that. I don't know what her kind of film trajectory. She did The Age of Adeline. Yes, Green Lantern, I think.

She did that one with Anna Kendrick. Yes. She's recently been in Ryan Reynolds's Deadpool film. She is his wife. She is mother to their four children. And she's in the headlines at the moment because she is the lead star and one of the producers

on the film It Ends with Us which is based on a book that was written by Colleen Hoover which I didn't realize it's also a controversial book Did you ever read it? I did.

I did read. Why is it controversial? Well, this is it. This whole thing is so like nuanced because it's a story that it's a love story in a way but it's also a story about domestic violence. Right.

I think a lot of people have a big issue with the book and about how it romanticizes domestic violence how it portrays it in quite a specific way kind of undermining the severity of it there's a lot of noise about the book that's really interesting that is really interesting because that's not what I got from the book at all me neither I thought it actually like really highlighted the nuances of controlling and violent relationship I agree I really liked it

I don't think it romanticised it at all no and I think a lot of people have a problem with Colleen Hoover like that's something that I've really noticed from this whole drama is since then it's like people are going for her writing they don't like her books she's over-hyped she's over-expoked people you know people have now got all of a sudden this author that everybody loved last year we're all going i've always fucking hated her actually yeah yeah yeah she's too lowbrows she's a bad writer yeah and i think as well a lot of people are bringing up as well that she released a coloring book and nail polish um off the back of the it ends with us book kaleen hoover did yeah she pulled them after the like the the

response, which was obviously controversial, because it wasn't ideal, obviously, it is a book about like domestic violence. I think it's not irrelevant to point out that Kaleen Hoover has spoken about the fact that she was brought up in her home with domestic violence. The book itself is actually based on the relationship between Kaleen's mother and father. And she herself described it as the hardest book she's ever written, presumably because of the personal experience behind it and, you know, exploring domestic violence and emotional abuse. On that level of alone like with that bit of information alone right i think the noise around this film already is disgraceful despicable i think the fact that we are attacking a woman for telling her story of

domestic violence yeah in a way that we don't like yeah is absolutely vile and i think like off the bat my issue i think our issue with with all of the noise around this it's not clean it's not Blake, it's not the, it's not Justin, it's not the specific players in this. It's just the huge noise around the situation and the level of scrutiny around these women that simply does not and would not exist if they were men. Without absolutely not, not a chance. So that's a bit of a history to the film that Blake's just starred in, right? So that came out very recently, I think it was about two weeks ago. Since then, or kind of in the lead up to this, there have been a lot of Rumours, there's been a lot of noise about Blake Lively's Rift

with her co-star and the film's director, Justin Beldoni. Actually, before the film was released, there were a lot of quotes about his behaviour on set, about him being difficult to work with, and I'll get into them in a minute. But there was a lot of noise about him. And just to clarify, he is the director of the film. He bought the rights of the book

and, like, buddied up with Colleen. to turn this into a movie. Yeah, actually, to give you the quotes now, coming out in the, I mean, they're from the Daily Mail, you know, they're from sources, they're whatever, but these are the kind of things that have been said about him.

Yeah, page six said, none of the cast liked him. He was chauvinistic and borderline abusive and that he made the environment very difficult and didn't allow women to be included. So that was the kind of noise that was coming out before the film even was released, right? Yeah.

there was a lot of speculation that there was there were issues between all the cast and him and that became evident when everybody realized that the whole cast had unfollowed him on Instagram and when they started doing the promo for this film they stopped posing in photos with him yeah they seemed to completely dissociate themselves from him yes all of the cast all of the cast even they were asked questions about him on the red carpet and they would entirely skirt around him completely and like do mental gymnastics to not address him. And yet it's been plucked out as an issue between Blake and Justin. And we can get into that in a second.

But I think the other really interesting thing about him is that he had a podcast with somebody called Liz Plank. That podcast hasn't released an episode. Apparently it just ghosted. It just disappeared. Yeah. And she, when she, when the film came out, she congratulated Blake and the cast of, it ends with us and not him.

She hasn't acknowledged his role in the film publicly, which would be literally like you bringing out a film and me saying, well done to your co-star. But not me. But not you. Yeah. I mean, the proofs in the pudding. Come on. I mean, all signs point to, this guy's probably not behaved very well.

We don't have proof of that. But there's plenty of evidence to suggest that there is a problem here and it's him. Yeah. But I think what's been really interesting is that the first I heard about this, the first I heard about the Blake lively cancelator, because it did come out of nowhere this Blake Lively cancellation, was that there was an issue between her and between him. Yeah.

I wasn't seeing it within the context of that of the film. I wasn't seeing it within the context of his behavior, him not getting on with the rest of the cast. It was just like Blake Lively has pushed him out. and that's that's what we're going with yeah he gave a quote i think saying that she like someone asked would you want to do the second film and he said no i i think you know this the second film blake wants that yeah blake's ready to direct yeah so people are taking from that that she's bossy and bullied him and she's bulldozed over you know her and her husband the hollywood golden couple of like bulldozed over him yeah you know interestingly i when this all initially came

out, I thought it was just marketing, I thought it was PR to like drum up publicity around the film. It could, that's the other thing it could be, right? It could well be. I don't think we can rule that out. No. I mean, I think if it is, it's backfired obviously for Blake.

Yeah. Not for Justin. He seems to be a hero. But there's not, despite everything we just said. Okay, well, interestingly, if we're going to go on PR theories here, okay. Something that can't be avoided. And I think it's really fucking relevant and it's terrifying and weird. Okay. He has recently hired the PR firm that looked after Johnny Depp. Yes.

During his trial with Amber Heard. Yes. Who have also looked after Harvey Weinstein. Yeah. It's a really weird PR firm to hire while you're doing a film about domestic violence. Right. And while your whole brand is centered around violence against women, because it is. He's got, you know, his podcast and I think he's done a TED talk about it.

And he's very vocal about it. Great. Yeah. But you're also working. It's a really weird. Yeah. Yeah. I can't think of why you'd go to that PR firm.

Like there's, in terms of your own PR, if, if there's any, you know, a sniff of that, of that, of your, of the thing that you campaign. It would be like you going to a management agency that predominantly deal with like DVD videos, like, those weight loss DVDs. Correct. Exactly. Yeah. That's exactly it. Alex Lai has signing with the same one who did Kerrick Toner's DVD on like how to bounce. Yeah, like how to lose three stone and a lot. I think she's known for being like the best in the business. Yeah.

And she's like scary, I think. Like she really like makes the competition back off, which is maybe why he did it because he was, I don't know, feeling. They're working wonders though. I just don't think it's irrelevant. Her working wonder. It's not. No, it's not. Yeah. And I know people have their own. thoughts about the Johnny Depp, Amber Heard stuff.

We don't need to get into all of that here. But I think it's, I don't think that's irrelevant. And I think it's weird. But I think stepping back and not looking at that he does, not looking at him because we don't know him. I don't know really anything about him. I think what's really interesting and the thing that I find very frustrating is how so much of the public conversation has been comparing Justin and Blake.

So he has said publicly. that this film is really important, that it's tackling the issues of domestic violence. He is really banging the, like, the right. He's basically getting, he's getting the tone right for PRing this film. And he's put the, he's putting the link in his Instagram bio for a charity about, like, stopping male violence towards women. Like, he's ticking all that, he is doing it right.

Yeah, yeah, good. That doesn't necessarily mean Blake lively's doing it. wrong just because he's doing it one way and she's doing another. It doesn't necessarily mean he's right, she's wrong. Yeah. But I think it's a really interesting thing that you've got a man doing something and a woman doing something and we're comparing them even though they're completely incomparable. The standards that we hold men to versus the standards that we hold women to, we expect men to do the least and we expect women to do the most. So then when a man does anything, we're like, wow. And when she doesn't do everything, we go, boo. Yeah. Which is

frustrating because I feel like that's what's happening here for sure like every single clip of her from all of this promo is being like analyzed scrutinized shared like millions of times and I actually I have to say I don't think she's I think it's been a lot of the promo that she's done has been clunky and I don't think has necessarily hit the right tone let's talk about it let's get into the clips that you're talking about the clip I'm talking about is this uh reporter asking her, it's a really strange question. It's a bizarre question, but I think what he's saying is, what advice do you give fans who see you in the street, who want to come up to you and talk to you about their domestic violence, right? It's a bad question, really bad question.

She's a ridiculous question. She's not a therapist. She's not a psychologist. She's an actress. And no one's asking Justin that. She is unqualified to give any advice, nor should she be expected to give, you know, to console. Like, it's just, it's just a stupid question. Yeah. she's answered, you know, she answered, in a clunky, the response was really clunky. She was like, what, should I just give you my social security number or like, do you want my share location? It was weird. It was just like weird. But again, bad question, strange question.

How the fuck was she supposed to answer that? What are you supposed to say? You're so hard. It's just difficult. It's a horrible hypothetical anyway. It's a horrible hypothetical. A lot of people do face this. You know, we have the Ask Angela signs in the bathrooms of restaurants and bars and pubs and

And that's something that, you know, like bar staff have to be equipped to think about and deal with. And it's a huge pressure. Yeah. And it's something that you don't know if someone comes to you or a doctor or whatever. You know, if somebody comes to you desperately, it's such a unique situation and you've got no idea how you're going to act. And we should only be expecting perfect answers to questions like that from people who are qualified. 100%. So, because if I asked you that now, you'd be like, I don't know.

I don't know. Yeah. And you can't say I don't know. Because if she says I don't know, they're going to absolutely hang to her and call. Yeah. What do you mean you don't know? You're supposed to be a voice for women? And I think she was, I think, I actually think that a lot of her answers that are being scrutinized, to me, it's coming across that she's nervous.

Yeah. It's coming across that she's nervous and maybe a little bit scared and she's like overtalking and kind of laughing and it's almost like a bit like verbal diarrhea. She's just kind of like, I don't know, she seems flustered. Yeah. And like she's, there are loads of clips of her talking about her outfits and like this that and you know saying that it's like a big summer beautiful movie and like bring your friends like wear your floral that's the one that people keep pinging up because she said at the end of a chat show or something she said bring yeah wear your florals bring your bestie like get to the

theatre yeah and people are like you're trying to like barbie this film yes and no she's a florist in the film right and the book cover flowers flowers flowers It's also, it's been leveled that perhaps they're saying take people, you know, get as many women seeing this film as possible because it may be... Right, that's what I was just about to say. People aren't necessarily going to go and see a film about domestic violence, but they might go and see a rom-com and they might see themselves within that. You could take your bestie if you felt that your bestie was in a position and you didn't know how to bring it up with her. That's exactly what I was going to say. It was exactly what I was going to say.

I think it almost... Trojan horsing it. Right. Exactly. Yeah. But whether that's what she meant or whether that was the, intention behind what she said or not like okay it probably like wasn't I don't know like maybe it doesn't it doesn't hit the right tone but the the level of criticism and hate no it's not

from criticism it's hate it's pure hate pure hate they want to ruin this they want to take this woman down they want her her career her life they don't want her to be visible at all anymore because of these things because of her tone and it's like I think this is what really frustrates me is what we're listing off here we ask scraping the barrel to find what she's done wrong here. Totally. Like, oh, she said, you know, she said, bring your bestie to the cinema. Like, how many films about domestic violence or serious issues have there been?

Did anybody ask Liam Neeson on the press junket for Taken how he would cope? How he would cope if somebody was escaping a sex trafficker and they came up to someone street. Did they fuck asking that? Did anybody ask Ben Affleck when he was directing or starring in Gone Girl about, the very serious issues with domestic violence and what he was doing personally to help victims. Did they fuck? When big little lies address domestic violence,

it wasn't brought up. There are films that come out all the time that glorify violence, that glorify misogyny, that glorify male violence against women, that nobody bats and I let it at. But when this is a female-led film and female written story, the level of scrutiny is just so much higher.

An expectation. And that's the thing. It's like it's not even about whether or not because we can talk about the historic clips that have been brought up at Blake and this whole idea that she's a mean girl and we can get into all of that. But I think the fact that we're asking that at all

is the key to this. Yeah. Because the scrutiny is ridiculous and would never be leveled at a man for the same story, for the same thing. This is incomparable. We have a prime minister in this country who described women who wear burkas as being letterboxes. We have a president, the last president of the United States who said he would grab women by the pussy.

You could argue these men have tone problems, but did that stop them becoming the most powerful men in the country? Did it fuck? The quotes coming out of Blake's mouth versus the quotes coming out of the men, even to bring up Johnny Depp and the Amber Heard thing or whatever. And things he said, you know, the text that came out in that trial about how he wanted to, and this is a trigger warning, but he wanted to rape Amber's dead, burned body. And he sent that to his friend. And people are still, if a woman said that, this just, and I think what is really horrible and really insidious to watch and witness is the glee, like how gleefully the pleasure

people are taking in bringing this woman down. it's Chardon Freudeau, its finest and it's undeniable that they would not have this amount of glee with taking a man down. They wouldn't have the energy for it. I think it's so difficult to bring a man down that we just think we can't be asked,

whereas bringing women down is a sport. Not only is it possible, it's fun. I want to read you some of the comments. These are just, I haven't gone out my way to find a post, right? just thought, I knew we were doing this interview, and I thought, what's everyone saying? There is an interview. Literally, someone asks her about her dress. I don't even know when this is from. And I'm going to read you the comments in order, exactly as I read them.

Finding Blake lively annoying was not on my bingo card. Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with her? This is so self-centered, trying so hard to be a girl's girl and relatable. Trying so hard to be likable. Ha, ha, ha, ha. So Blake, what's this movie about? Oh my God, I love your nails. And my husband and I support each other throughout our career and my hair has always been there for me and I wanted to put Lana Del Rey's song here. I styled her. Did you see my rings? Gross. We don't care about your husband. I know a mean girl when I see one. I'm so glad I never liked her. My husband, my husband, my husband. She acts like a high school mean girl for real. No one could make me like you, Blake. She's as deep as a puddle. Her attention span dot dot dot dot. She's

literally hyping her husband up with his playful little comments and being nailed twins with the interviewer. Very normal and silly behavior. Loll. Blake Lively, they could never make me like you. It's giving Amber Heard vibe. Mum with four kids behaving like a toddler. She's so annoying now. Boring. Why is she trying so hard to be 13?

What is it with women in Hollywood having zero self-awareness and conversation skills? What is she, a two years old? Where are the brain cells? Fucking hell. I could not find a good one. And she's not said anything inflammatory in that. She is literally talking to my husband. If you want to see what misogyny is, if you Google misogyny, those comments are it.

I don't, disgusting, understand, outrageous. But they're picking up things as well, but it's just, they're picking out anything. Like, they, it was her arriving to the red carpet and someone wasn't letting her sister in and she shouted, that's my sister. Like, let her in, that's my sister. And people are like, the way she said that,

though you can see the evilness in her eyes. I'm like, no, she just wanted her sister to come in. Like, it's, the, her refusing to sign a clear, screen for her autograph. Have you seen that? No. I've deliberately not watched the no, because I cannot bring myself to it. She's signing autographs and then someone's got a clear screen and she says, not the clear one, you know better. Because I think that if you get unclear, like you can sell the autographs on.

Yeah. Fair enough. Fair enough. Fair enough. The very widely circulating clip is the one where a reporter congratulates her on being pregnant, says, congrats on your little bump. Blake snaps back with congrats on your little bump which was from like I think a long time ago now I think 10 years ago maybe and then

like an interview that followed which was horrible like the interview wasn't great like it was awkward my toes were curling through the whole thing but it's like this woman okay it was I actually thought it was really bad that interview but this woman's had a really long career now she's been in Hollywood for a long time

she has done thousands and thousands of interviews I'm not surprised we can find a bad one. I agree. I also think, I imagine it's very, I know it's very, I know being pregnant is a difficult thing to do publicly because I know, we know how people react to pregnant women.

I'm not defending that interview because you're right, it is uncomfortable. And it's more uncomfortable because she's done it to a woman. The woman who asked her, what's a woman, you know, so it was a woman to woman, which I don't like. If I were to guess, I'd say she'd been doing press junket all day,

and she had had to talk about her baby bump in every single interview. Right. And she was pissed off by the end. Right. If I were guessing, I think she was, because I've seen so many clips of her not wanting to talk about being pregnant. Yeah. And not wanting to be reduced to just being a mother.

Because she's there to talk about her films. And all anybody wants to talk to her about is her baby and her baby bumps and being a mother. Which nobody's asking Ryan. Nobody's asking the men. So I actually get it. Yeah. We just don't know the context behind it. But I actually even think us, and I think.

and I think it's interesting to analyse it but I don't think it's relevant because like even if it had been a horror even if she was just being mean it's not relevant to what's going on right now it's also 10 years ago let her let her be mean yeah and what yeah let her be mean

also let her be a great actress also let her have her tone problem let her have a tone problem let her get the PR wrong right just let it also be let her be a great actress and let her they say she's not a great actress though that's part of the criticism level

that's the thing it's like we can't we're coming for everything Then don't watch the film. Don't watch what she stars in then. Move on with your life. Stop participating in this joyful takedown of a woman. Like I actually, I'm not going to get it up, but this guy who, this guy on TikTok, he's super clever.

He's got like a master's in, I don't even know. He's incredibly clever. He's so articulate and eloquent. And like the videos he does are so like well put together and thoughtful. He started his Blik Lively video with, here is the glorious downfall of Blake Lively. Why? Why glorious? Yeah, why are we so excited?

Why glorious? This is what I keep seeing. It's like Leighton Meester was right. So there's this idea that there was always this feud on gossip got, right? And people are reading into Leighton Meester, who starred as Blair Waldorf alongside her. People are saying, Leighton was right. Leighton always warned us. And, yeah, America Ferreira, it's like clip of her rolling her eyes.

Yeah. It's like people have been collating this evidence. over the last 15 years and they've just been sitting on it waiting for the day they felt safe enough to use it and I find that so disgusting that we are just

it's like we're not going to bother with the amount like I we the things men say they bounce off the things that public that men say publicly the amount of fucking shit Matt Healy said oh my God yeah right on stage in front of thousands of people on TV cameras, I couldn't tell you one of them. I know that they're bad because occasionally I think, oh, fucking hell Matt Healy, what you're doing?

But I don't know what they are because we don't remember. We don't have the capacity, but have the interest in storing this data on men because we know we're never going to need to use it against them. But with women, it's like we can't help it. We are hard drive to like collate, collate, collate, collate, collate, so that one day, if anybody asks, we're ready to destroy her.

And there's this, and there's this, and there's this. It literally feels like we are collecting ammunition. It feels like we are so uncomfortable with ourselves that we spend forever picking just, I'll save this, I'll save this, I'll just put this in my, it's like getting fucking ready for a nuclear thing. I'll just fill the cupboards. So in case I ever need it, I've got it. And participating in, or even just witnessing the takedown of her,

in some way brings us up. It does. Yeah. Because everybody, because she's always been so beautiful. She's, she's married, she's happily married. Perfect, perfect life with great hair. Hollywood golden couple, four kids, great hair, beautiful. Has an aged today.

Right. Can't stand her. Do you know what irritates me though as well? It's like people going back to, you know, actually her and Ryan are so cringy. Like, you know, all the schick that they did, you know, when, like, he would post this Instagram, like, cropping her out and be like, me and my gorgeous. just wife and stuff like that. Like, so cringed. Like, bullshit, we lapped that up.

We enjoyed that stuff. We laughed at it. We reposted it. We liked it on Instagram. Like, don't tell me now that you think that stuff was so cringe. We loved it. We thought it was hilarious. Like, don't try and we do it with Hugh Jackman.

And, you know, she's, oh, like, all the criticism. Oh, she's posing with Hugh Jackman and right on. Tell me you're not, tell me, you're not just a little bit jealous that you're not posing with Hugh Jackman and right on. Because it's all like I can, I'm like, why wouldn't they be there? It's her husband and they're best friends. And it's like, and then it's all this cringy for adults tapas. Well, so what?

Let her be cringy. Let them be gringy. I know. And people are still going to, oh, and you know what? Stepping all of this back and stripping it all back. As you said at the beginning, this could well just be marketing for the film. If it is, that will be part of an orchestrated plan. What Blake is doing out there, what she's doing, talking about her dresses,

wearing Britney's dress from the VMAs, wearing florals all the time. treating this like a summer release film, all the criticism that's being leveled to her. This isn't an accident. Stars like Blake Lively don't decide how they're going to PR the films that they're in. They are told how things... Of course.

Of course. It's not her job. On a lower level, like on any level in this industry, when we go and do our tour, we make the posters with the promoters. Yeah. How you market it, how you sell it. It's not our idea.

It's the promoters. It's the people who are making the money. It's people who are making the money. putting the money into it, investing the money, they tell you how to sell what you're selling. With a film like this, a $15 million or $25 million film, I don't know how much it is, the marketing logistical planning that will have gone into this will have been extensive. This is not accidental to point out as well that she is one of a very big team and this is all being leveled at her for her getting it wrong and her fuckups and her whatever.

I just, I can't, because that's less, it's less attractive to us to, to have a point with Justin. Yeah, yeah. It wouldn't be fun bringing Justin Beldoni down. People are telling, people are telling us that he behaved badly on set and that he was chauvinistic and sexist. People are telling us that. Boring, don't care.

And also, they're telling it us explicitly and implicitly as well by the whole cast literally ghosting him. Yeah. It's like, come on. Yeah. Like the... Writing wall. Yeah, exactly.

The proof is literally in the pudding. But we're like, Piero. Yeah. Can I just actually, can I read out a comment that I saved on a TikTok that I wanted to just read out? Because I thought it was very interesting. Justin Baldoni is a superb human. It would be a dream to get just Justin's version of this movie. And I really hope he gets the opportunity to do it to do another project.

have the impact that it deserves, right? This is a comment on TikTok from a woman, and it has 65.5,000 likes. Justin Baldoni is a superb human. We know as much and as little about him as we know about Blake Livy. No. Except we're scraping the barrel with, like, finding things with her.

Like, finding, like, vague... Clips from 15 years ago. Pretty much innocuous clips. Yeah. And with him, it's like... Superb human. Well, we're... being told some but no this is it the standards are completely different the bar for men is so low

that they trip over it the bar for women is so high that they will never reach it we are putting by putting a man against a woman in any context publicly you are setting the woman up to fail there is no way she will outperform the man in any way because he can do so much less for so much more and she will do so much more for so much less and that will that is literally nowhere more prevalent than in hollywood and i think i don't even know blake lively might be really fucking mean yeah like she might be well be an absolute horror to work with as would be her prerogative if i had so much of an issue with that i wouldn't go and see the film i wouldn't follow her on instagram and i kind of leave her to it right like but we can't do that let karma do its thing if that's

that probably people won't work with her anymore. If she's really mean and hard to work with, then fine, but like we don't need to. I don't know I keep bringing Johnny Depp back up again. But actually, I can't even bother because I can't even. No, it is important though. I keep thinking about him hiring that same PR person as well because I'm like, he's being called a hero

for advocating for women and for violence against women. Yeah. He's being called a hero for that. and yet he's... I know. Because, yes, it's directly linked. It won the US case against Amber Heard,

which wasn't, they never went to court for domestic violence, they went for defamation. But Amber won in the UK. There is evidence to show, and actually I've listened to an amazing podcast series called Who Trolled Amber, which I really recommend everybody listen to. Oh, yeah, I want to listen.

It's hugely interesting about basically how bots and how that PR firm sounds like, I don't know if it was a PR firm, and there's no concrete evidence to show, but there is evidence to show that the public, the online noise surrounding that case, the anti-ambiard shirt stuff was orchestrated and paid for in the shape of bots,

which is completely skewed my perception of the media in general now and social media and the noise on social media because it's very interesting. And I definitely record it's like a six-parter. It's super good. I'd really recommend you listen to it. Yes, I think maybe that's why it's on my mind a lot, but I think you can't not draw parallels here

because Amber heard, as was determined in court, was not without blame, nor was Johnny Depp. Like, he is, he was conclusively seen to be, you know, we've seen the texts, we've seen the messages, we've seen the bruises, he did it. This isn't about her, this is literally about him, and he's fine. His career, you know, he sued for damages. He lost 50 million because he didn't get the new Pirates of the Caribbean film. But actually, there was a lot of industry moments going around saying he was, be drunk on he was late, he wasn't showing up on time

that's what, you know, there's... He's still the deal. But we don't know, that's the thing. People aren't digging. If people dug around men, like they dog around women, we'd know loads, but we don't know. And I don't know about Johnny Depp because no one's showing me,

no one's putting it on Instagram, no one's making 15 minute takedown videos on TikToks, no one's doing podcast episodes. If we did a podcast episode about how bad Johnny Depp was, we'd be, everyone would be fury. They'd set us on fire. Literally. know where we can do it.

The only thing we'll do, we're allowed to talk, we can do a whole episode talking about a woman and the interest will be there. I bet this has really high listens this episode. If we did the same one, talking about Johnny Depp. Nah. Boring.

But no one would listen. This is, oh, literally no, I already know what the comments would be. Because we don't, there's no interest. There's just no interest. What was the response when you talked about this on stories? I was really encouraged, actually. a lot of it was from okay so overwhelmingly it was positive overwhelmingly people said to me

I got sucked in and having read this and read around it myself and seen what you said I take it on board I think this is all insane and I'm really grateful for this perspective because I hadn't considered it that I was super duper grateful for great there was a lot going yeah but her tone's an issue yeah but she's talked about her dresses, yeah, but why is Ronald, you know, just kind of leveling more. And then there were some people who said that they were victims of domestic violence themselves and they felt this film was a bad portrayal and that Blake lively was letting them down. I don't think that's necessarily fair. No. Because I think it's a very big pressure, as we said earlier.

Well, Justin Baldoni is the director. So ultimately, it's his responsibility to make sure that the right message is conveyed. In which case, he's doing a great job. is conveyed, in which case we should be happy because he's done a great job. But then a lot of people, when I spoke to those people, they said, well, the issue is actually with Colleen Hoover's story. I said, well, she's also a victim. So I don't think that's for us to dictate, but I don't know. And then there were just some people who just flat out, no, I've always known it.

I've always known Blake was me. You can't convince me otherwise. Don't die on this hill. Like, and you can't argue with that. But I do want to argue with one tiny thing. go on the word mean girl this woman is 36 years old have you ever heard anybody describe anyone as a mean boy because it's absurd to me i love it though these comments are like always knew she was a mean girl was like no one's ever done that underneath like a video of like michael gove i was new as a

mean boy like no no just jacobrease mog oh yeah i'd ban abortion no not a mean boy just a politician Like, these men say awful things all the time. Are they mean boys? No. No. It's so true. Mean boys. It's so, I'm going to start doing it every time.

It sounds ridiculous as well. It's so common. It's so common. When you actually break it down, it's absolutely absurd. But we're so used to it. It's so common to hear it that we just go, yeah, what a bitch. What a mean girl. No.

Grow up. Grow up. That's the whole issue with this. Like, that's my entire issue with this. And I said it so many times on it. Instagram. It's not even about what Blake did. I genuinely, although I've always loved her hair and would die for Serena Vanderwoods, and even though she was a horribly selfish character. Was she? She was chaos. Anyway, that's between her and her. Or even though I've always liked

Blake's hair and enjoyed her and Ryan's stuff on Instagram, I accept I don't know her. And there's, there is a chance, as we said, that she's been mean. And yes, perhaps she's got the tone of this wrong. But that is not the crime. Also, Justin Baldoni might be a great guy. He might be a bad guy. He might be a great. We don't know. But interestingly, that's not up for scrutiny.

That's not up for debate whether he's a good guy or not. But for Blake, it is. My issue entirely here is the lens. And we've talked about this before. It's over exposure of women. It was so inevitable to have two films. She had two films come out this summer. And that's just too many.

Like, sorry, that's enough for you. You're too hot. You've reached dizzy. heights and we need to grab you back down you've you've become the crab that reaches the top of the bucket yeah it's it's like yeah mud crabs yes and we need to we need to we need to yes we need to climb up and like drag you back down drag you back in and I can't bear it and I wish people could see it I wish people could really understand what they were falling for there were so many I was looking on the daily mail yesterday and people always say don't look at the mail it is the most popular

newspaper in the world. It's everywhere. We can't pretend. No. Don't give them your clicks. Don't engage. No. I can't pretend. It's irresponsible of me with this job to pretend the mail doesn't exist and to ignore it. Because they are the social conscience, tragically, for so many of the people in this country who read that newspaper every single day. It is the most widely circulated paper online of all of them. We can't pretend as a significant amount as well.

By a significant amount. No one's close to them. So we can't pretend they're not relevant and we can't pretend they don't hold power. When they write 15 articles in a day, and I researched this yesterday, there was so much about Blake yesterday. Has she always been a mean goal?

What's the writing on the wall? The truth between the feud. Blake Lively's hair care products, you know, are they killing children? I don't know. You're fucking, you know, stretching, whatever, like they did to Megham Markle. But they've only written, interestingly,

this is in the scheme of the Daily Mail. There's only 82 pages about Blake, on the male, which span her 15-year career. You know, they've been operating since 2006 or five or whatever online. 82 pages is not that many in the context of a celebrity. Ten of them have been in the last four months. I don't think is irrelevant at all. It's the overexposure.

They've been doing, they've been planning this this year. Up, up, up, up, up, up, up. And the second that film comes out, that's when we go for the care. And everyone will be ready for it. because they'll be sick of her. You've reminded me, I realized that we haven't talked about her hair care line either.

There's just so much to this story. Is there? It's so much to all of this. It's literally fuck all. I know, I know. But there's fuck all, but there's so much that people are picking up on. And one of those things is her hair care line

that she released, I think, in conjunction with the release of this film or like just before. Which any PR person would tell you to do. Of course. If you're going to launch a product, do it when the eyes of the world are on you.

obviously and she's allowed to look okay don't buy it but she's allowed to launch product yeah people are saying that she's capitalizing on domestic violence which is like do you need some deep heat for the muscles that you will have pulled i know stretching for that i know i know i can't and i don't want to us to sound like we're trivializing it and we're trivializing the issue of the film because we're not i know that's what i keep thinking i don't want to be dismissive of anyone of like victims of domestic violence or anyone who does feel like this this book and this film isn't representative of their experience or or trivializes in some way their experience.

But I don't think one book and one film is ever going to encompass everyone's individual experiences with domestic violence. I don't think it should have to either. Like I think it's great, I think it's great that we're talking about domestic violence and that this has been brought into the mainstream in now such a huge way and that like,

so many people will go and see this film, so many people have read the book and will have had their eyes open to domestic violence. like, I did completely. I really didn't understand anything about it at all. Luckily, I've never, I don't have any experience with it. And I was like, I think what this book did was like paint a really good picture and do a really good job of showing how like domestic violence, like how close violence can be to love.

Yeah. And like how intertwined they can be. And then that just, it just makes it so much more understanding. understandable why often people have a hard time leaving. Yeah. And I thought that was, that was a really powerful perspective and something that I thought was really,

really important that the book did. I also think if you do have an issue with it, Fairfax, you know, there is a lot to be desired. There's a lot here to be desired about how they've done this. And whether or not the marketing's been right. That's not Blake's fault.

If we have an issue here with how this has been trivialized, how it's been, undermined, how we've skirted over it, how we've romanticised it, how we've made it all pretty and pink and marketable and whatever and perfect. Yeah, we've got an issue here, but it's not with Blake.

It's with the reporters who insist on asking her about her clothes rather than about the film. Right. It's... A report's asking her stupid questions. Like, what would you do if someone comes up to you in the street and wants to share, like, that... They're trying to trip her out. Right.

Yeah. That's not an issue. Productive. But I think there's also something to be said for the fact that getting people into the cinema, let's be honest, getting people into the cinema to watch a film by domestic violence is not going to be easy.

And films can't afford to have you not go to the cinema. Right. They need you to go. If a film doesn't break even at the box office, it's fucked. And everybody in Hollywood is saying the same thing that streaming is killing film, it's killing cinema.

They're really struggling. And people are having to do more and more and more to create the noise around the films to get people through the doors because if they don't go through the doors these films can't be made so that we can pick apart and we can complain about

and we can say this is disgusting that we are all the complaints leveled at Blake fine pull back and level them at the powers, the executives about the culture, about the society about the media yes there are issues here

are they her fault? No that doesn't mean you're not justified in how you feel but I think you're just targeting your anger in the wrong place. But it is true that there have been hundreds of movies that exist that have covered serious,

like equally serious topics. Yeah, I mean, look at American Beauty, the film with Kevin Spacey in which he is the father has an affair with a 16-year-old child. Nobody talked to him about consent, about underage, about rape, about any of that, which actually is not irrelevant

considering that throughout the following years, subsequent years, he's been accused multiple times by multiple men of sexual assault and sexual violence. But there's not the same scrutiny. There's not the same noise. And I just, I think this is ridiculous. If you try to explain this to an alien, it would be absolutely absurd. Yeah. And that's the really fascinating thing is that people, I feel like with the social, with the internet like this, like TikTok, you feel like you're running, right? The trends are going so quickly and you feel like, I literally feel like I'm running alongside a train and people on the train are yelling at me and they go, we're canceling Blake Live and I'm like, cool,

okay, coming. And I don't know why. I've missed the start. I didn't get on at the same stop as as everybody else. But then I realized, nor did anyone. We've all just jumped on a moving train and we're just scrambling for what we can. It's a case of, you know, just listening to what everybody else in the next carriage is saying and then running with that as if it's gospel. Great analogy. Thank you so much. But that's genuinely what it feels like because everybody's looking around going why we can't. Does anyone know where? It's literally like getting on, does anyone know where this train's going? Does anybody know? Like no, no, we all just got on, we all just got on hoping it was going to Waterloo, but we don't actually know. So great to hear

though that people in your DMs after you spoke about it briefly, and only briefly, people are like, oh yeah, I have been sucked in actually. Yeah. But that's not necessarily how I feel. And I think that's really cool as well. People change their mind on it. I think when you open your eyes to this, it's really hard to close them again. I think when you become aware of the overexposure, when you become aware of the headlines and when you start noticing somebody on your, say, why am I seeing Billy Eilish everywhere? Why am I seeing Charlie X, CX everywhere? You know, it's like, it's like the beginning of a tidal wave. If you start feeling the waves coming back, the signs are there, you know it's coming. Yeah. It's like the cow's lying down. And when you

start noticing that, you know, it's going to rain. I don't know what you mean. A cars always lie down before it rains. Do they? Yeah, adorably so. It's so. Isn't it? Why? Presumably to keep their tummies dry. I don't know. Oh, that's really sweet. Or the grass underneath them, I don't know. Sorry, sidetracked, but so cute. But that's it. Like, when you know, when you can see the warning signs, you know it's coming. Yeah. And you won't fall for it. And that is really valuable. We need people listening to not fall for it. It's a very clear and repetitive pattern and one that is played out throughout history. Time and time again, always with women. And that's why I really think that this conversation is important. No doubt we will get shit for this for this episode.

I can't wait. We've probably said some things that are wrong, I don't know, possibly. But I think it's very, very important that we have this conversation and open our eyes, like other people's eyes to this, so that this, I don't know, I mean, I don't think we're going to break this pattern, but at least we can talk about it. Who's the moral arbiter on whether or not we've got this wrong, though? You know, at the end of the day, we're voicing our opinions. No, I mean, like maybe saying some things wrong, like, you know, I'm talking about more,

like I feel Ikey talking about the specifically like the domestic violence aspect of this film as someone who hasn't experienced it and I'm thinking about someone who's listening who is a victim who feels like I'm speaking on their behalf and I don't I don't I don't know perhaps in that sense we haven't got anything right we're everything right we're not going to whatever we're not going to we're not going to this is a difficult subject and I hope I hope people listening and I'm sure they will have the have the foresight to see that that that's not what we were talking about here this wasn't we didn't bring this episode up to talk about whether or not the marketing of a film about domestic violence was handled right right we've brought this up to look at the societal treatment of women yeah and using this woman as a case study yeah and i hope that that doesn't get lost because we aren't talking about anything more specific than a pattern and a frightening one and if you boil it down if you strip away all the noise about this all the stupid little videos what we're doing is quite despicable and ultimately we're trying to ruin someone's life yes ironically we're trying to ruin a woman's

life in the context of a film about violence against women yeah i don't think that irony should escape us have we have we covered it i think so i've got a bit of a headache now actually you're not surprised these lights feel bright suddenly yeah well that's it this is the over exposure awful is coming oh shit it's literally the over exposure yeah okay well, I look forward to that fall. We do look forward to hearing from you. I hope, yes, that's true. I hope you've been able to take something from this

and we'll be back next week with silly stories and shenanigans again. But this has been good to get off my chest. I know, I feel light. I feel really light. Alex's light. I hate it. I love that.

Thank you for being with us, guys. Thanks for listening. as always we love you and we'll see you and we'll see you thank you so much for listening should I delete that is part of the ACAST creator network

Thank you.