Shutdown Fullcast - Pinkerton Pat Sent Packing

Episode Date: July 12, 2023

Pinkerton Pat Sent Packing SHOW NOTES “This is the tuna that has a little bit of dolphin in it, and I think it tastes better.” Get in, sailors, we’re going to the Titanic Museum Fine, Northwestern talk, go Then we play a game! The game is Let’s Remember Some Guys Who Might Want This Northwestern Job “Dave Clawson, go get the Ohio State job!” Visit sunny preownedairboats.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It always blows my mind the concept of guilty pleasures in music. Guilty to who? Who the fuck is? Like, what? What is it even? I don't even know what that means. I do not even know what it means. A song that's a guilty pleasure.

Who am I trying to impress? We've been through this before. I don't believe in guilty pleasures. There's no such thing as liking something ironically. You can perform liking something and not really. But if you like something, you like it, stop. I think you can have a guilty pleasure if you're like, oh, I like the cruelty-heavy tuna. like that's that's that's a thing you can that can be a guilty pleasure okay

for like oh this is the this is the tuna that has a little bit of dolphin in it yeah and I think it tastes better that's a guilty question maybe it doesn't maybe maybe maybe you generally like dolphin but yeah that that is a good point it like in terms of separating the art from the artist separating the um dolphin safe tuna from the non dolphin safe tuna then that point emerges as valid yeah yeah that's not nobody's gonna save this like it's like you know what you can have like this is on me it's on me that i even expose myself to this kind of thing but like it's dumb guy shit it's not even dumb guy shit in the fun way dumb guy shit in the fun way

is i accidentally set my pants on fire like that's great i like that kind of dumb guy's shit in my life the kind of dumb guy's shit where somebody says i can't believe you think that and then theatrically attempts to disagree with it for the sake of propping up this like weekend at Bernie's style argument, right? Well, I think if you're going to do this, you have to represent, I have never eaten something truly sad. Like, I don't have any standing to get high and mighty about other people's food preferences because I have stood in front of the fridge, put a piece of turkey in my hand, put a piece of cheese, put a piece of cheese, cheese on that, rolled it up, and eaten it all without using a napkin, a plate, a count, anything.

And because I have done that, I don't get to tell people what goes in chili or not. I have eaten like a sad animal. All have fallen short. Right. And unless you can look somebody in the eye and say, no, I've never made Sad Fridge Rollatini. Or been poor.

That too. Or grown up poor. Like the... Oh my God. Sad Fridge Rollatini. is what we're naming the dish the struggle dinner that I had a couple weeks ago. That is the sad dish roll of teeny

and it is impressive. I think the other thing along these lines is like, oh my God, how have you never seen that movie? And it's like, because there's a fucking million movies. There's a lot of them. What do you need to know here? This, and the only thing that used to be like this was like if people who didn't know a commercial

when we all watched live television. When we all watched the same show. That could be truly shocking. My favorite on the movie thing, by the way, is this was always like, How could you have not seen that? And there's two answers, and one's charitable, and one's not. One is, I don't know, man, I've got kids.

Like, when you get kids, you just sign off on an entire raft of content that other people are just pouring wholesale into their brains. And then the second is not so charitable, which is, I have taste. That's another thing. There's the third one. What was the third one? Not a movie guy. Yeah. Thank you.

Thank you. I'm not really. This is me with shows. This is me with shows. This is me with music. I'm just like, I'm glad. everybody loves music not a songs guy i i like i it's more that like lives in nashville if i could find a specific point in michland to nashville it's probably it's probably like

2004 where i was just like up i've had all the music i need from now on so cutting you off here so like like you heard nellie and you're like we're not going to top this it's you might have been right no that's totally i mean it's valid it's valid argument yeah he said ludicrous back for the first time and last baby last time indeed yeah i have a very full life okay speaking in movies okay i'm sorry if it's too late to talk about this it's too late to talk about this is it's are we doing the show is this a show now no one ever really knows okay yeah why don't why don't we do a welcome and then do this all right no i do want to do this to be clear hey folks

speaking a disaster since no since you're here anyway let's why don't we gather around the kitchen Last a welcome at him, boy. Fire. Fire now, welcome boy. Fire, welcome. Dance, welcome, monkey. Welcome, gorilla. Put on your dancing shoes.

A. Clap your hands, your Spencer's going to die. Clap your hands if you believe and welcome. Vom it up that welcome already. Like an owl pellet. Welcome gorilla is more than welcome. Do it, welcome, Gorilla. Oh.

Welcome to the shutdown full cast. You are listening. New goal for one of us is to get Spencer to break during the welcome. I don't know if it's ever happened. Oh, yeah. I don't think so. Yeah, new goal. He enters, he goes like, he goes so business mode when it's not for the welcome.

Yeah, yeah. Good job. That is, yeah, you're welcome. You're welcome. Thank you. It's the one, it's my one. it's my one contribution to this podcast now i'm going to sit over here eat some leaves and drag some tourists around the mountains of rwanda that's what i do there was a time by the way of marvel comics where they just kept putting dc and marvel

realize that if they put a gorilla on the cover they would get really great sales so they just kept finding new and more elaborate ways to build guerrillas into it and i love that i wish streaming television work like that comic book gorillas i'm going to see if there's a wikipedia page on this comic yeah gorilla grod list of fictional primates and comics

thank you Wikipedia you have fucking crushed it once again oh my god it's so long it's so so long it's so so long

you people couldn't get enough gorilla they just craved gorilla and that is that is where I want to start because what better place to start

that welcoming the people in with what they want which is gorilla actually that's that's not where we wanted to start in a manner of speaking but mm-hmm lex lemur that was wow wow I was trying to think of the best like variant crossover type right like iron iron gorilla or you know venom gorilla whatever but I've already that's it that's

it the real the best one has already been done there is also one on here called sky ape described as a millionaire gorilla with a jetpack god damn oh wow that's iron gorilla that's just silverback that's just silverback sky ape or silver gorilla tody start sky ape this is a black and white comic book series from the early 2000s so titles included sky ape sky ape colon waiting for crime sky ape colon all the heroes and sky ape colon king of girls Was this written by a gorilla? I don't know.

Like, is this the product of a million monkeys and a million typewriters? Maybe so. Maybe so. If it is, if it is, it's the one that made them all stop typing and applaud. We've done it. We've done it. We've done it. Do Morgan Wallen just drop, boys?

There are so many comments. We've done it. We are the king of girls. I don't know who that is because I stopped listening to music. I really only know who it is because of Jason. I tell you, every origin starts. How did I... I only know of that because of the shutdown fullcast.

Great. We've become a knowledge of boroughs. Who was the original... Who was the original gene truck shorts, cutie? Those fucking punks they put on college game day. I don't know any of their names. Okay. It's like 18 of them and they're all the same guy.

Yeah. Yeah. We gotta figure... Okay, they're all the same guy. We've got to figure out some way to use that. Like, we could kill a lot of them before anybody... true every one of these origin stories by the way

is something I would love to do alright like guerrilla boss from the Batman universe and remember if you haven't explored all of those Batman villains Condiment King is a real one as the Lego Batman movie Yeah

Garilla Boss was originally a mobster by the name of George Dyke but he was said to be executed but you know what it's important to have a plan in life and his was to have his brain removed from his body by his henchmen and it ends up transplanted into the body of a towering

gorilla. Smart. That's perfect. I'd love for somebody to do that with me after I die. It'd be awesome. Put my brain in a giant gorilla body. It'd be like, oh, you couldn't type and I'm like, couldn't go on the internet. I'm free. I'm free.

I'm free. Why wait? Yeah, what? Let's go. If you are a disgraced surgeon with very low ethics and very high technical proficiency in neurosurgery and cross-species work at at edsbsd DM me on the failing website twitter we can make some magical stuff happen that's not even the like most dangerous neurosurgery that twitter's involved with it this is an easy one by the way gorilla man you really but you really will become welcome monkey at the end of this i will become welcome gorilla sir not a monkey monkeys are maca

Tiny, fragile things. Whoa. Yeah. Any of the cac's listening to this? I didn't say that. I'm talking macaque Twitter. Get at me. I don't care.

Gorillas. Gorilla strong, macaque weak. See, I'm already spitting the party line. Wow. Beating my chest, as it were. You would do so much better as a gorilla than a man. I would. I'm already halfway there.

Evolution has really robbed you of your proper place in the year. We went too far This is what return means We had it right the first time We took a wrong turn down the tree Spencer 1.0 was fine You don't like You don't like wearing clothes

You don't like most human foods Yeah You know gorillas don't have to eat cheese I don't have to worry about that I bet they love cheese Not eating soup No no they're like that's bad milk That's soup, that's water

I drink that I don't eat that Grills just eating, eating, eating bananas and throwing poop at people. That's chimpanzee behavior, sir. Again. You're disgracefully, disgracefully inaccurate eight college. I paint with a broad Simeon brush. I apologize. I know.

Know your Simeon's. Holly. What? Before we discussed the dues of the week, and unfortunately in July, we have news. Can I say something? Yeah. I'm sorry.

I want to apologize to all of you. To all five of you. You too, Floyd. And you made some good points today. But I feel like every week, I've had a fractious summer, fellas. And I feel like every week for the past few weeks, we've recorded the show.

We've gotten it in the can. We've been pretty happy about it. And then, like, on Wednesday, as soon as the show drops, something really interesting happens. We're like, ah, shit. Why could this happen 24 hours earlier? I feel like I've been complaining about this for,

like, five, six weeks in a row. Does that sound like right? Is there an example that sticks out to you of something like this? I think you're right, but I'm trying to remember, like, if there's a thing that happened. Oh, it was like the last time,

um, shoot, was there a jimbo thing? I feel like there was a jimbo thing. Usually. Yeah. Let's just say, I feel like there's some of there's been a lot of, just like random little picky you and internet shit that would have been great for 45 minutes on the show

and I feel like it's been happening on Wednesdays a lot this year. Of all the things we wanted to talk about that could have been teed up for us the night before we record the show, fucking Northwestern, really? Yeah. We got to talk about Pinkerton Pat.

Really? That's not how I want to spend my July. Go away. He did. You know what, fair enough. In a sense, all really like... I wanted to talk about it. the Titanic Museum but no

I think you should do that we'll do that first you want to do that you want to talk about the Titanic Museum I would love to it postpones us talking about Northwestern football so yeah so I've for those of you those of you listening at home I have teed this up by saying

hey fellas there's a Titanic Museum and it's in Severeville and if you know what that means then you know what we're in for but apparently the did you hear about this have you heard about this You heard about this?

What is the deal with cruise line food at the bottom of the Marianas Trench? The, do you call them occupants, victims? I would say occupants. The crew, are they occupying in it anymore so much as painting the walls of it? The soul's lost. Yeah, the soul's lost of the little Stockton Rush capsule boat. of the we can't even call it a submarine

it did get submerged the sailors yeah yeah they sailed for a minute plenty of sailors go down the newest freshman in Davy Jones's locker room

are going to be celebrated with an exhibit at the Titanic Museum now you may find this offensive and I have to tell you you're offended and I want to make sure that everybody knows that they're offended in the wrong direction.

First of all, I'm not sure if you're aware that there are two Titanic museums in the United States. The fact that one of them is in Branson should tell you something. Branson's a little bit more famous than the one that's closest to us. But the other one is in Severevul, which means Pigeon Forge, which means Gatlinburg, which means this thing could not be less solemn if they were holding it in a Margaritaville. And I wish they would. of volcanoes under the ocean. But I'm not sure if this is a legal thing,

but it feels like a distinction on the order of craft singles. It is referred to in its own copy as the Titanic Museum attraction. Like they know they technically can't call it a museum. Can you have birthday parties at the Titanic Museum? Yes. Can you have vow renewals at the Titanic Museum? Yes. are there displays are there specially curated displays of i'm not making this up a pair of shoes

worn by a 10 year old child aboard the titanic that is like one of the only real actual props they have if the entire crew of the of the museum staff has to wear full pancake makeup it's not a museum it's not a museum um they also recently changed there it is such a money grabbing machine that they only recently changed a policy to allow personal photos inside the Titanic. They did not use to allow you to take phone pictures inside it because they had the photographer staged at every corner for like the $25 Polaroid. They have an imaginary, I don't know if he's supposed to be a ghost, but they have an imaginary first officer who's supposed to relate to kids called Officer Buster, who's like this little

Jimmy Neutron looking kid who escorts you around the Titanic and has a thing in the summer called Officer Buster's reading list. People don't know. This was the original Notre Dame mascot. So it's maybe more appropriate than you think for a celebration of the legacy of the submersible. But if you're getting offended because this is not solemn enough, somebody on Twitter pointed out that this is like, this is like falling into the pond, the reflecting pond at ground zero. them putting your name on the memorial yeah like drowning in it yeah yeah and i think that's about i think that's about as close um as as close as we can come it's it's it's that if if ground zero was itself like um an arcade or something mm-hmm oh oh i'm sorry i forgot the best part um there are over a hundred this is i'm reading from the website there do you guys know what

fairy gardens are you have daughters you've seen fairy gardens yes the little the little nature landscapes that get put in like container gardens and stuff for the i don't have a fairy gardens daughter so yeah yeah you really you really don't uh ryan you've got a fairy gardens daughter i got three nieces so at least one of them is into fairy gardens just by odds there are 187 little fairy gardens are placed around the ship are they in honor of the children no they are to honor the number

of Irish people who perished with boat so specific I don't I don't I can talk also I've never been to the Titanic Museum these are just things that you know

when you are when your parents live half an hour away from it it just absorbs what do the other ethnicities receive I have not asked I wonder if they're represented by like

gremlins or something like you know it's all just I did find one section that was about China but it was about dishes it's very Tolkien I guess

sure there were there's a murder mystery on the Titanic board game that you can buy well I think I know who did it it's probably the iceberg there is a Titanic

Year of the Children glowing silicone bracelet that you can find. I don't want to think about the uses of that. My favorite part and he's deeply anti-historical. My favorite object you can buy in the gift shop is a duck in a titanic captain's outfit, a rubber duck constitutionally unavailable to go down with the ship by virtue of being a rubber duck. He's built different. Makes you think. Why didn't they make the whole ship? You could buy Titanic Clydesdale plushies. Do they have Clydesdale's on the Titanic? that's why it sank yeah weighed it down a little bit yeah so damn heavy horses when was this

institution founded after the movie or 2010 this is not this is not that new this is after this is after i moved away so after avatar it's after the movie but also not close enough to the movie to be like ah right must capitalize on this this is actually this is like the point at which kids who saw the movie are have become nostalgic for the movie right that's oh that's kind of brilliant Let me see if I can, just for setting's sake, because I've driven by this, and it is, by the way, a replica of the Titanic that's kind of tilted to one side to look like it's sinking attached to a building. Let me see what's immediately around it just to give you a better idea of your surroundings. Okay, it is between the Hatfield and McCoy Dinner Show across the street from the Buttonwillow Civil War Theater and the Elvis and Hollywood Legends Museum.

It's a big good place to have a lock-in, I think. Oh, I don't want to have... Dude, I would want to have a lock-in right down the street at the Hollywood Wax Museum. Oh, God. You know, there was a Titanic lock-in. Wow. Some say it's still going. The ocean's the original lock-in when you think about it.

I think that's right. The ocean is never going to stick to above-the-clothes stuff. Let me tell you about lock-ins. They don't either. Let me tell you about a friend of mine named Poseidon. I always feel so bad for the six Chinese guys that were on that boat. Like, nobody spoke Chinese. They were just there. They were going to the Caribbean where nobody was going to speak their language anyway.

They're on a boat. It sinks in the middle of it. When they get off, they're still not in a place. Like, all of those guys, those like six Chinese survivors. I don't think I know about this. Oh, yeah, no. I was too focused on the Irish fairy garden. So these guys don't get fairy gardens?

No, there is no fairy gardens. That's true. There's a section on the website. This is China. and it's just devoted to the dishes that were used on the Titanic I think it's rude that's fucking

yeah that's and like there's a scene involving one of them in the film I believe but the six of them like like if there was a zero information

environment on the ship while it was confused and sinking imagine it for these guys who were not speaking the hurried panicked sometimes drunken English

being thrown around you know they they get they actually are rescued and then, like, they're kicked out of most of the countries where they end up anyway around 1920. So it's like, oh, survived the Titanic. Oh, God damn it.

One of them ends up in the U.S., one of them. Some of them marry British citizens, but they're deported anyways. What? In 1920, around the, yeah, like, they have the rawest deal. Like, in addition to surviving a nightmarish situation and enduring lifelong trauma from that, the places that they end up, like the safe harbors, most of them are booed. it out. One of them becomes an American and ends up like living in Milwaukee, I believe. Do the English receive fairy gardens?

The English, I believe, do have fairy gardens. So, live show at the Titanic Museum. Oh, 100%. Okay. Good. On the boat. It's probably a bad sign that we could very easily do this. Oh, it's a terrible sign. This says a lot about the Titanic Museum. It says a lot about us. A lot about us.

well i mean titanic museum attraction that's right i'm sorry sorry yeah sorry thank you to my turn was the ultimate niche audience titanic museum product that's why we're going to tell it a titanic museum attraction subsidiary yes titanic music cheese food drink cheese food it's not titanic juice it's titanic drink very different let's call it the forecast contains hey you know what we could call us that you can't say about anybody else in there five alive oh boy wow

yeah yeah we'd be associating something live with the Titanic that's one thing a college football podcast or a podcast containing 3%

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All right, we can go off as long as possible. Yeah. Yeah. Not that it's funny, it's just profoundly profoundly dumb it's creepy it's sad

it's dumb it's really dumb let's just like the dumbest it's sad it's dumb it's so absolutely dumb in a thousand different directions Pat Fitzgerald

the coach at Northwestern since God man first of all he played at Northwestern and Did he? Yes

Oh legendary linebacker at Northwestern. You did that. Wow. I swallowed that hook line. I can't believe that works. I can't believe that work. I know.

That was amazing. Oh, my God. Fuck. God damn. I was just trying to keep it rolling. Sports and culture in one podcast? Just keep going. So the coach there since 2006.

All right. So the second longest tenured coach in the Big Ten fired by that institution just days after getting a two-week suspension during a non-recruiting period in the middle of this, the dead part of the calendar, for accusations of hazing in the Northwestern football program. Hey, Spencer, I have a question. what happened to take that from two weeks to one forever well that would be the daily northwestern newspaper that would be the student newspaper deciding to you know flesh that out a little bit maybe do some reporting maybe pursue the story a little more and airing out multiple allegations of hazing in detail including um including signaling out singling out players for some extremely bizarre uh gross invasive sexually suggestive uh one phrase is purge like masks uh used for suggestive i don't think goes nearly far enough yeah um i'm going to try to find the right word for

this, just some really weird fucked up shit. Does fucked up shit cover it? I mean, simulated sex acts. Yes. The reporting is out there. Like, you know, we can summarize it. And I encourage you to go check it out because these students who are going to have a real interesting rest of their school year did a great job.

It's a kind of behavior that like teenagers, athletes, adolescents do this kind of shit. Just being realistic, yes, it happens. a lot of it happens. And, like, there is sort of this, boys will be boys kind of way to look at it to think, okay, everyone who is involved in it surely thought it was fine because I thought it was fine at the time or whatever, right? That is how this all works, yeah. And, yeah, and that's how this perpetuates.

And, yeah, this is, I think, the rare instance in, like, sports history of that type of shit being exposed to the point at which you know we essentially all agree like oh that's that's really fucked up that that's bad we can't do that um and like honestly it's been kind of interesting like to see a white guy lose his job and to be trained by the previous number of years to expect other white guys to rise to his defense because that's what

happens right and in this instance there there's like two things you know two reasons where that doesn't happen one is he's a fucking loser he won one game last year three of his last four seasons were bad so like nobody capes for a loser and the other is this shit all sounds weird like no one is going to leap to the defense of people

humping people who don't want humped so like Pat Fitzgerald's gone and nobody's caping for him and like the fact that there's a white guy who lost his job and nobody's starting a culture war about it is that that feels unique we're weirdly reliant I think in no small degree upon

like societal home homophobia here, too. Nobody wants to be seen, nobody wants to be seen standing up for the, standing up for the Ghibli bits possibly touching guy. Yeah. Which is a very, very weird ally corner to find yourself in. Additionally, there was an article on July 10th, published by Nicole Marcus, Alice Brown, and Cole Reynolds.

Great job, y'all. Again, in the Daily Northwestern about a hostile environment and, in their words, a racist environment in the football program where black players were uncomfortable, particularly with an emphasis on good, clean American fun, a word phrase used to reference how they wanted players to look and act that did not include longer hairstyles for black athletes. White players were, of course, allowed to have those. Also, in addition to that, some raw, bad, stupid, extremely insensitive racial jokes against black and Latino players. Just bad vibes. Like, Like, in addition to being, like, just dumb, just like a dumb, stupid, condemnable way of doing things.

And without even, less we under-emphasize this, without even a shitty business reason to show for it. Yeah. It didn't work, so to speak. You won nothing. You did this for nothing. The point has been made that, you know, yeah, there's no one saying, Pat Fitzgerald said this, or Pat Fitzgerald was doing the creepy naked. stuff or anything like that or even necessarily knew about it. But the point has been made and it is the correct point that he makes so much money to micromanage this program. He controls these

players' hairstyles, their clothing, their entire schedules on and on and on and on. If he didn't know 10% of possibly of his roster was engaged in it, you know, it's not one or two players. It's the school itself said at least 11 players have come forward to talk about this stuff. And we know some of them felt very bad about it afterward. So, like, yeah, he makes more than enough money to know. And that to me, whether he, whether he did or didn't know, he don't get to make that money anymore. And we're back to the Urban Meyer thing again when we find out that you can't hold these guys up as,

all caps, leaders of men and, you know, talk about how invested they are in every detail of their program and then say, oh, but not that. right yeah like pick you gotta pick one yeah and this feels like one where everybody I think for you know for various factors this feels like the rare instance where everybody gets that like nobody's caping for Pat Fitzgerald and great that's great almost nobody's caping I have heard I I almost went out of my way to find a bad take on it and I did find one but yeah but you know he's he's got a lot of practice of that yeah you know anyone can say anything anyone can say the words just have to come out of your

mouth they don't have to make sense and they don't have to go in any particular sense of order i'll say sorry go ahead no go ahead well i um i made the mistake of attempting to listen to a different college football podcast i understand that means i attempted something that's not real right i stepped outside of the bounds of our reality um and i listened to one on which a host Danny Connell said after being reminded that we're talking about at least 11 players who have spoken who have said this was this was real and we know some of them do not look back fondly on it. Cannell said that he doesn't believe that any of them actually considered it sexual assault. To be clear, Danny Connell has been in more locker rooms than I have. But also to be clear,

I have been just as much a teenage boy as him. I have been just as much an adolescent dude. as him. I completely understand exactly the type of situation we're talking about. And don't let the fact I was a youth group kid fool you. I fucking know what I'm talking about. I'm here to tell you, not everyone who does those naked shenanigans, and I was raised on jackass. I get it. Sometimes it's completely innocent. Not everyone who does those naked shenanigans looks back on them fondly. Some people do not enjoy them at the time. Some people feel pressured into them at the time. And for anyone to say, 100% of the people who were essentially forced into engaging that stuff feel great about it, you don't know that, right? And then Connell said, he followed

it up by saying, naked bear crawls, those happen in every locker room. Do you hear the problem there? Do you hear the problem? We're talking about 22-year-old men telling 18-year-old essentially children to show their buttholes and degrade themselves for what is essentially their job at a public institution or even worse, a private institution, right? Do you hear what's fucked up about that? We're talking about hundreds of thousands of athletes over however many decades. You're saying 100% of them feel great about that years later after reflecting on it. So, yeah, that was the bad opinion I heard. Yeah. And it's not really worth entertaining past that because there's just things you don't have to say. You don't really have to say, hey, you know, hey, Hazig is bad. Yeah, it's bad.

It's bad. We all know. that and almost all of us not that it's also um i'm right almost all of us except for pat fitzgerald it's also entirely possible um we love our state school jokes it's also entirely possible to go through a situation and have a grand old time and realize years later holy shit that was fucked up yeah like it's it's possible and fine to uh change your mind about how you feel about certain situations you found yourself in when you were younger. It happens all the time. This is not new. None of this is new. Before we get too far away from the origins of this, it's actually something else that's not new because it kind of figures into the landscape we find ourselves in right now.

It's notable and laudable that the story came from a student paper. It's also the latest a card thrown down in a pattern, and it's not a great pattern of stories of this type coming from outside the sports world, or from outside, you know, from outside the immediate world of the access, of the access journalist. I'm thinking about stories in the past years that have been broken by the Guardian, that have been broken by inside higher ed, that have been broken by other student papers, and just the landscape that we're working with here, like the state of this business isn't bad enough, but the landscape we're working with here that makes it absolutely impossible for the people who are closest to these programs on a

professional level to be the ones telling these stories when they should be at the front lines of these things, don't feel great about that either. And I'm extra grateful that these other institutions exist. But when you look for, when you look for these stories that are going to, that are going to rip something open, you almost have to go in through the outside now. And it's an interesting, it's an interesting thing to contemplate for those of us, all of us, on this show who grew up, you know, who grew up outside these gates and having to look in from outside these gates and don't know what it's like to have our entire livelihood

depend on whether a coach is going to call on us at a press conference. But these institutions have kind of created a two-edged sword where, and I suppose that's something to be grateful for too, where they cannot, you know, the Northwestern football team, this maybe isn't true in every school, but the Northwestern football team cannot take down the Northwestern student paper

they cannot put the Northwestern student paper out of business and that's not necessarily true of whatever Northwestern's equivalent of AL.com is and we should be grateful for that and the institution should be scared of that. There's also a goddam amount standing northwestern AL.com oh my god. Hey coach! Just wondering what you thought of rabid Northwestern homers.

Yeah. Hey dude, I found a I found a rabid UNLV fanz I believe that I believe that part Reno There's a wild thing here Where Pat Fitzgerald is ironically

taken down by student athletes Stating their own experiences And exercising their own power Why is that interesting? It's interesting because Back in I believe 2014 Pat Fitzgerald urged his players

To guys, it really been that long Yeah to vote against Kane Coulter's attempted unionization of college athletes at Northwestern. And that kind of fixed him in our minds as, you know, Pat the Pinkerton, the strike breaker, the cop, which I don't think was too. Pinkerton is hiring, by the way. I went and looked. Oh, well, I got a, I have a candidate. I have a horse.

I got a job candidate. That is, that's the easy, ironic take. But the longer thing is this, that this is like, who does the football program belong? to. And the longer someone stays there, I think the more a coach will believe that the program belongs to them. And the weaker the entire program will generally get, particularly if it's not, if it's not something the players own, like you say this for Miami, okay? The program only exists. The program only exists in any form because the players believe that program is theirs. When they graduate, many of them believe that program still belongs to them. It's

not the product of like one charismatic leader. It's not the product of one dictatorial type. It's the product of a bunch of people sort of all coming together and working and curating and preserving this ethos that's passed from, you know, class to class to class to class. And this is not saying, by the way, that the ethos or the code that those players express or value is necessarily positive by default. It can be negative. You can have extremely negative student-led or community-owned brands ways of doing things but on the whole you're going to be a lot stronger if all those players not just buy into it but if it comes from them that that's the that's the thing to me like if you have players who are in a particular place they're from that particular place

and they are make it of that place don't try to impose I know that's what we all do and like year one year two we write the same articles about I'm going to change the culture I'm going to impose things from top down you have to work with what's there and it has to be a community thing like this goes for so many things it has to belong to the people and ultimately if it doesn't this is the kind of culture that festers

you get this kind of thing where ultimately it's ironic that somebody who would emphasize individual responsibility would in the end when the crisis struck attempt to dodge it by saying I didn't know that was happening that seems deeply unlikely to me

I I kind of disagree with you because so much of how Northwestern, like, there's a letter that was written before in the middle of this whole proceeding where Northwestern's, quote, entire team, unsigned letter, so truly could not tell you who sent this, who it represents, whatever, but came out strongly in defense of their then head coach. A lot of the behavior, like Pat Fitzgerald is the central figure in all of this. but a lot of the behavior that's taking place is taking place at the player level. There are some of the allegations, especially with the racially insensitive acts and policies that do impact them directly. But a lot of this is really about what the culture was doing.

And I struggle to say that I'm not sure that isn't a culture that was local, that was allowed to sort of, like, develop on its own. I guess I look at this from a different point of view, which is not very centered on Pat Fitzgerald, which is not very good audio for talking about the coach who just got fired, having been there for a very long time. So there is another article on the Daily Northwestern right now about Northwestern's baseball coach, Jim Foster,

who has only been there for a year, but has been, has had several HR reports, submitted against him about engaging in bullying and abusive behavior, for making sexually inappropriate remarks to a female manager, and about how the athletic director at the school didn't respond to these complaints either directly or sufficiently, failed to monitor after they had been investigated, et cetera, et cetera. Current AD, at least as of now, at Northwestern, is a man named Derek Gragg. Does anybody know what Derek Gregg did before he was the AD at Northwestern?

Was he the associate AD at Northwestern? No. No. He was the NCAA's senior vice president for inclusion, education, and community engagement. Oh. He had a job where you would think he would be aware of these kinds. Like this wasn't, oh, we just sort of like put our most favorite, you know, longstanding football boy here. Jim Phillips, who used to be the athletic director at Northwestern for a long time.

That's an athletic director name. Does anybody remember where he went to two years ago? He's the commissioner of the ACC. Yeah. What? That Jim Phillips. That Jim Phillips. And so I guess I, the most, there are a lot of things in these reports that are disturbing,

give you pause, are sickening, etc. One of the most, I think, baffling things that I saw came in Pat Fitzgerald's statement where he's announcing that he'll be retaining legal counsel to fight back against Northwestern. And I'm going to paraphrase it here. He describes that the two-week suspension that he served was a mutually agreed upon sanction as a result of this third party internal investigation that Northwestern had done. I don't know what kind of meaningful accountability you can have when the subject or one of the subjects of an internal investigation gets to agree to the terms of his own punishment, gets to set the terms of his own punishment, and then gets to turn this into almost a contract dispute where he says, now wait a second, we both agreed that two weeks of no pay during a, during a, during, a recruiting dead period, and I can't take my boys to Kenosha, we all agreed that that's what

would happen. Like, it suggests. That was the wildest part to me that taking them to Kenosha was the problem. That, like, it's just that wild night air in Kenosha. It suggests a, a power imbalance and a lack of, like, actual responsibility from the people who are supposed to be in charge that, like, feels like, how could it have gone any other way? When you, when you, everybody in this world should have somebody to whom they are accountable. And Northwestern does not, did not have that for Pat Fitzgerald.

They simply didn't. This is also where I point again to the, they wanted to sign because there is no good reason otherwise for Pat Fitzgerald, who's many things, but not stupid, to put out a, statement that is so openly, almost not cheerful, but blasé, blithe, maybe is the word I'm looking for, about this two-week suspension, about like, you know, hey, you know, hey fellows, this is what we agreed on. And why on earth would you put yourself in a position to make that seem like it was not at all arduous for you? Like, you, anybody with a lick of sense or anybody, I getting to the point here, who has ever had to face consequences in their life, meaningful consequences for their actions, would automatically, I think, go to fight against the lesser

punishment. You have to act like you've already been punished. That's the point of the punishment. And he can't even be bothered to fake being sorry about the two-week suspension because he doesn't know how to do that subroutine. He's never, had to do that before because he's never had to face consequences of his actions before so why would he why would he know how to do that it's treated it's treated sort of uh it's treated like a pass interference flag where it's sort of like well that's what you called and therefore you can't throw you can't throw me out like that's not an ejectible offense you said it was past interf like it's it's a different form of football brain this is the this is the penalty that you said applied to this situation

and therefore give me my 15 yards and let's move on. Speaking of football brains, you know what we're really running short on now? Guys who are shaped like that. Pat is one of a dying breed. We are really running low in like the executive CEO head coach era of guys who are shaped like armours. Also shorts coaches.

We're now down to just Mel Tucker. I thought Biff. Well, at least we know it'll be around for a while. Piggy at Charlotte. Yeah, all right, yeah, Biff is now the ranking. Biff has got a step up this year. Yeah. Yeah. He's got a lot of weight on him.

I would, by the way, that baseball coach that was hired who I guess... That story's even weirder, man. What is it with college baseball this year? College baseball. College baseball, settle the fuck down, please. God damn.

Didn't hear from me for a decade. We already said we love you more than MLB. This is why LSU want the college world too is higher. LSU was one title. Everyone loses in my name. If I were, if I ran a major media operation, I would hire one college baseball writer and I would ask them to never write about anything that happened on the field. I would just have them investigate every head baseball coach because the shit you would find based on this year alone would be Pulitzer Prize winning material and at least three Netflix series. If you told me that two weeks ago that the gambling scandal that was centered around Pete the stadium named or the street named after Pete Rose.

was going to be overshadowed very shortly. I'm not sure what I would have done. Yeah, that guy, by the way, went 10 and 40. So it wasn't just like he sucked a little bit. He was the worst by far at his job by a margin of like twice as bad as the next best team. Wow, that's almost as bad as Pat Fitzgerald's record last year. Almost, almost, buddy.

he didn't even last year they did not win a game in the united states can i throw one more softball at the danny canal dunk tank while we're at it sure while we're all here stop everyone stop everyone pretending as though the way you have interacted with a powerful figure is emblematic of how they treat everyone like you might as well be turning on you you are pulling the chain on a permanently installed neon sign above your head that says, I don't understand basic power structures and imbalances, and I vote. This is a useful metric, I think, for everyone in almost all walks of life. Yeah, it is.

But he was nice to me. Golly fuck. I wonder why. Like, Danny Canal, Tim Brando, Darren Ravell, they're all relying on a dichotomy that, frankly, is not relevant to this discussion, which is, is Fitzgerald a good person or a bad person? I have bad news. This is not a useful label for most people because people are complicated and capable of making decisions in both directions.

Yeah, we're not talking about that. We're talking about, like, was this fireable or not, right? Right, right, right. It's like, I think there is a, there is a, the whole cancel culture. pushback movement is very much based on we're taking good men and we're taking it's because it's always men and we're tearing them down and in fact it's like if you if you simplify this to just actions or lack thereof decisions or lack thereof and you judge those this is not terribly complicated i will absolutely if you have 10 good stories to tell me about pat fitzgerald how he

helped this former student manager who was in the hospital how he was generous to this group those i i can accept that those things are true and that he failed in his job in these regards i am capable and i'm not that bright i don't even have a job to to to of understanding how people are capable it's it's the same it's not that divorce from people who think well i have a good kid and therefore they can't they can do no wrong good parents and thoughtful parents understand that that's not how children or grownups work everybody is capable of making bad choices of doing the wrong thing and the responsible thing to do is to look at those choices which are backed up by evidence and testimony and investigation and judge those and not fall back on well i think he's a good person i don't

give a shit if you do that's not what's at issue here yeah i don't give a shit if he is a good person you know like that it's something we have run into so many times over the past jesus christ going on a decade now of looking at what people are are looking at what people are saying rather than what they're doing looking at what they're doing is so much faster and requires so little parsing it's less effort do that i also like the first side is you're saving yourself energy in the long run and you're going to get a more accurate reading on who you're dealing with. The flip side is I also don't feel any strong desire to condemn Pat Fitzgerald as a bad person. I don't know.

I don't. This is just like you can't do that job anymore. Right. No. Yeah. Like honestly I'm a whole the union busting thing against him forever. This is an example of a person being entrenched in a powerful place too long and having no one to answer to. Right. Right. Yep. Right. Yeah. And I, that second part, Pat Fitzgerald's not the coach. And he's not, he's, I know he's going to sue, and I know there's a decent chance he's going to get some money of this, but he's not, he's not coming back to that locker room as head coach. The second part is what Northwestern has to fucking figure out. And it's, and it's not, look, we've said this before, God, we've been doing this a decade.

And if I thought about going back and thinking about all the shit that's unfolded since then, and then I decided that was a bad way to spend my brain time, it is not, there's nothing special about Northwestern that's like, oh, look at this like one place that did it wrong. It's very hard for us to say as Medell Grads, but, you know. Like, the structure that allowed this is the root cause of the problem. And the structure that allowed this is fucking everywhere. Yes, yes. Like, that's another, another, you know, there's two meanings to saying Northwestern isn't special.

they are neither unique nor are they alone in this yeah right right which again not better no but there probably isn't a better here no no and that's okay too well i don't know if okay is in it it's just what it is i i think that's like that's the better way to put it yes if i if i think there is a good instinct somewhere in in all of the stupidity like if there's a a something to if there's a point somewhere under here it's this we're very very bad at processing

when bad things happen particularly in terms of particularly in terms of an understanding of tell me something what is a degree under forgiveness tolerance that people because people aren't truly canceled

people get other jobs right like for instance um go look at the Gerald has generational wealth right now he does but go look at the Texas A&M coaching staff In this profession, people do not get canceled. They don't.

I can really only think of one dude who has been deemed so toxic that he cannot work again. And he actually has a job. And people keep trying. He's been hired. He's been hired. Three times. Yeah. Three times.

Coached in the Italian Bowl, actually. I'm glad we didn't go to the Italian Bowl after all. Yeah. It's not just this. It's not just even coaching, though. No one gets canceled, period. My mother-in-law is in Greenville. North Carolina right now

handling a case against and the attorney opposite her is John Edwards he's still practicing law now there's a guy wow he's really bad at it he's really really bad this is like the third time say again

is he still pretty is he still handsome not yet handsome is not the word is he still pretty that painting in the attic is a fucking mess though I've been I've been told sweaty shaky I think he knows knows what he is and he displays it on uh you know he puts it on full display he's a bad

he's a bad lawyer i have been told that like he is not good at his job are less in person than lawyers are less impressive in court than anyone who hasn't actually been to a court really knows like if you go to an actual courtroom and watch someone argue i'm sure he is a bad attorney but on the whole like i bet if you went back in time and you're like let's go watch clarence darrow you'd be like this dude's fucking clueless sam waters if you watch too much columbo and then watch an actual lawyer you're right you're going to be disappointed like like half of court is like do we have that shit it's like I'm not lying

that's like never told the joke that is half of court is someone that's why lawyers need to get three timeouts just like a coach oh my god Ryan this is the next act for you we're sending you back into the legal profession oh you got to just less miles attorney at law seeing another client head to death row

another way to the chair go back and just change all your handles back to Celebrity Hot Tub as if no one will remember. Nothing. Nothing happened. I was never here. Can I...

Ryan Nanty. But like we're terrible. We're terrible at... We're terrible at processing somebody as they do this job and they're an asshole who has done a bad thing and they're still going to get to do this job. Like nobody... And we have not over the past few years gotten better at it

despite a lot of reps. A lot of reps. Yeah. Like that person's just still sitting there. They still exist. and they're still going to get a job. I would be more okay with this if there was any sort of follow-up to it. Like, yes, you're right, that Pat Fitzgerald, he's, what, 48?

He's still very young. Yeah. Pat Fitzgerald will probably end up coaching somewhere at some point. Maybe not as a head coach. He's younger than Spencer. And that might be fine. Is he? But I guess the thing I would want to know is like, okay, what does the follow-up look like?

For the school, that inevitably hires Pat Fitzgerald. Let's accept that as a fate accompli. It won't be liberty because he's Catholic, but that's about all we can rule out. Like, are we going to ask any follow-up questions? Are we going to say, okay, like, what will be different now? Right. What is, what, what have we asked him to do differently going, I thought about this a lot when Bo Polini got hired at LSU after his stint at Youngstown State, where he, one of

the Steubenville rape defendants, he specifically sought out to bring on to the team. And Bo Polini got hired at LSU around the same time that LSU is in the middle of this huge Title IX investigation, the one that also includes less miles and has like a number of, has a number of issues related to how they're dealing with sexual harassment, accusations of sexual assault, et cetera, et cetera. And I'm just like, nobody asked, of these questions. Nobody was ever like, okay, well, like, what are the expectations of Bo Polini? What are you doing to make sure that he will follow these guidelines? Just nobody, it's just like Bo Poling's here. Now he's not. There's even an optimistic case for that because there's, we don't

live in it, but there's a universe that we live in. There's a universe out there where Bo Polini and we're Bo Polini, where Pat Fitzgerald, where any of these guys are learning. and are learning and making restitution and where they know what to look for next time. Sure, sure. But we don't live there. And we do have, within the sports world, examples of attempted atonement. Everyone usually goes to Michael Vick, and I think that's a great example. Tim Hardaway is another really good example, frankly.

Yeah, yes, yes. Yeah, Tim Hardaway has educated himself and spoke out against his own queer phobia, right? like there are examples within sports world of someone stepping in it learning from it and helping other people not step in it right yeah and in our sport we just don't seem to live there yes it's rare in college football why why why what makes it what makes it rare i i haven't the the quickest thing the easiest answer i can think of is math because you have the you have the biggest mathematical power imbalance and age difference between the labor force and the folks in charge.

I think it's, I think it's college sports. I think there's just too many people who are willing to hire because it happens to college basketball as well, right? Like possibly even worse scumbags get jobs in college basketball. Dave Bliss got another job. See, they're right. I would call it. Yeah.

So, like, I think it's just the number of, there's even more of them. Yeah, that's the math thing for me. It's the number of people. who are willing to open their paychecks. Like, you can be frozen out of, you know, a pro league if 32 owners don't like you for good or bad reasons, right? Whereas in college sports, you're telling me 100, 100 plus people, you're telling me liberty's not going to take a chance on you, right?

Like, it's just almost impossible to get frozen out of college sports just because there's so many people. Which, and everyone appears to know that at this point. And I know why you're doing it, so this is rhetorical, but I'm like, you're, you're like, why are you all whining? You know you're going to be fine. You're going to be fine forever. You know you're never going to experience any actual consequences

or fall out from your actions. So why are you whining? Shut the fuck up. Can I dispel a myth and then we play a game perhaps? I love games. Yeah, both are related to Northwestern, unfortunately. First up, it has been said many times over the past few days, Northwestern has fired its best coach ever.

I understand why people say this, all right? Because he was there a long time, and he won, you know, a number of games, and he finished ranked a few times. I'm going to go through some historical records, all right, about Northwestern's quote-unquote best coach ever, okay? Pappy Waldorf had three top ten finishes in 12 years at Northwestern. Pat Fitzgerald had won in 17 years. Gary Barnett inherited a three-win team and took it to a Rose Bowl.

Fitzgerald had inherited a seven-win team and never won better than a citrus bowl. Robert Voitz won a Rose Bowl at Northwestern. How? Randy Walker never had a one-win season, but Pat Fitzgeraldt did last year. List of Northwestern coaches who have won shares of conference titles. Randy Walker, Gary Barnett, Gary Barnett, Pappy Waldorf, Dick Hanley again. Here's a name. Glenn Fisselthwaite.

Shut the fuck up. And Walter McCornack. Pat Fitzgerald never, never achieved that mark. By SRS rating, Fitzgerald's best team ranked 20th among all of Northwestern's teams ever. His worst team was Northwestern's 19th worst team ever, which is saying a lot, because there's some garbage down there. And you might say I'm... You might say I'm being unfair because, oh, you know, Northwestern's, the schedule got harder or whatever. No, that's bullshit. the Big Ten added Rutgers, Maryland, and late capitalism, Nebraska.

The schedule got easier. The math backs it up. Gig economy, Nebraska. Can you imagine anything more terrifying that at 11 p. mastro, 1.7 stars is arriving. Yeah, I was going to say, New York, Nebraska has arrived with your meal. Yeah, you've ordered some late night Taco Bell, but you didn't feel like driving. It's been sitting out for seven hours.

So you went. To the Nebraska listeners, I know you were like, oh, my God, they've almost made it all. I can't believe they're talking about the Big Ten West. They're going to fucking do it. I'm sorry. The spectral eyes of Herbie the Husker at your door at 11 p.m. So here, one more math fact. The hardest schedule Pat Fitzgerald ever faced was the 58th hardest schedule in Northwestern history.

He faced seven of the 20 easiest and he lost to Southern Illinois. So don't give me any shit about it was too hard for Pat Fitzgerald. This is the easiest era in Northwestern history. Thank you. Look at the way that guy is shaped. He's made to take blows. The man was shaped like Minecraft. Get him out of my sight.

You lost to an artisanal sight hound. Oh, shit. Lost to Duke. He lost to Miami of Ohio. Like, brother. Get it to you. Oh, all right. So game time.

All right. You ready? Northwestern is in a fucking pickle because it is goddamn July, right? Yeah. Football stuff starts, well, weeks from now. Big Ten Media days very soon. Yeah, notebooks are on sale. It's time 50 days, I think.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fall practice starts really, really soon. Yeah. And they've also committed to this logic of that, well, they can't just promote from within because, like, right? If the logic, which I think is sound is that he can't coach the team because he should have known about this, well, guess who's even closer to the players? It is assistant coaches, right? So here is Bruce Feldman's list of potential Northwestern target.

right tell me as we go if you were this person if you would make the jump to northwestern in mid-july right to take over a one-win team mike kathka new york giants offensive coordinator former northwestern quarterback yeah i was going to say and office coordinator that is really pretty well regarded right now i think yes yeah he had a lot of from his heisman campaign as bruce notes uh he interviewed for like NFL head coaching jobs already. Okay. So like, so he's not taking it.

Right. So are you giving up a potential NFL head coaching job to spend three years rebuilding a program at which winning seven games is an achievement, right? No. Well, hang on, hang on. Is there a little bit of, is there a little bit of Duke in play here?

Like, I don't know Mike Kafka's life. I don't know what he wants out of life. But is there something to be said for win seven games? and you're a folk hero but that was the last guy like yeah right nope you're right you're right okay yeah also man cap I just wanted to make sure we tested all these boundaries systematically also my my Kafka he did a year after he got out of the NFL he did a year as a as a GA at Northwestern and he's been in the NFL ever since he was on he was with the chiefs for five years before he took

the OC job like yeah I don't I don't see why you would do this I know he's a Chicago guy. Even if he did want to do it, what gives us an indication to be in good at it, right? Right. Right. Yes, this is, this would be a wild place to be like, this is my first head coaching job. Right. Taking over this mess.

All right. Second, Matt Campbell, Iowa State head coach. Are you giving up that rebuild to start all over? This would be wild, but also, has he stayed too long? is this is this the lifeboat is this the last helicopter out of Ames this helicopter smells a lot like leaky gasoline uh-huh yeah this lifeboat this lifeboat has a suspiciously large amount of water already in it also like let me let me go from a really hard public school job to a really hard private school job you know like it's

only going to get harder yeah i would uh part of me is also like wouldn't you rather stay in like the slightly watered down big 12 then jump also you guys Like, yeah, why are you trading? Now you play USC? Contextually, you're absolutely right. Instead of playing Cincinnati, you're going to play Ohio State. Brilliant. Right.

Yeah, no thanks. And for anyone, any newcomers, like, this, Bruce Feldman knows what he's talking about. These are, like, the names Northwestern. Why would you leave the water of Ains behind? When you, when you say, when, when Bruce says, you know, sources close to Dana Holgerson, Bruce's sources Dana. So, like, this is, there is not a better, I'm not making fun of him. I'm saying there's not a closer source

to these guys because according to Dana Holders and he's talked to these Dana Holders and there's like well there's like I get this out of my I'm just He sounds the same legally you have to sell me Novakane

Oh my God we're talking to new people I'm just saying there are two or three guys in the business that you can say this about you know Bruce and Brett and when they say when they say sources you don't have to worry about who those sources are it's the guy

Also, let's translate what these mean along the way. If you say Mike Kafka, then that is an intelligent and coordinated guess made about a guy who's from that school, who has talent, and is going to take that talent somewhere. So this is a hypothetical and somewhat realistic like A to B connection. When you say Houston Nut, you mean Houston Nut has called Bruce. That's right. When we say Matt Campbell, I suspect this is what that means. hi we had kind of a middling and slightly disappointed season relative to our but i'm still hot shit you missed the sports media meeting where we all agreed

matt campbell has to be on all hot seat that is that is sure oh yeah we have the guy who's made iowa state consistently good he has to be on all hiring list penn state coming open we got to get this guy out of there we have a man who's built a spacecraft out of a tricycle, a hang glider, and a gas mask. Let's put him on the hot seat. He's getting the commander's job now. He thinks he has a good job. We've got to get him out of there.

All right. Next up, next up. Dave Klausen at Wake Forest. Is he taking the jump to the same job from scratch? That might be the one job where I'd be like maybe the Northwestern job's easier, but it's just different right now right now Dave Clausen Dave Clausen might have the right kind of like

and I say this not judge as a moral judgment of football brain to be like what's the football job here you know like I don't think he necessarily is going to look at wow this is a challenging and complex situation I mean does it make does he does like rebuilds maybe he thinks work here is done so they don't have cookouts in Illinois he's not

all right Struck from the list Fuck off, Burger King Well, no, it's a banana milkshake After every win Is it? Okay, yeah. That's a big inside knowledge.

He looks great. Which fast food restaurants Were we counting in Chicago? Burger King. It was Felder counting Burger Kings. It was Felder counting Burger Kings. Yeah, Felder counted burgers. It's 17, we're like within two miles of his

condo, I think, at the time. So many surfboard chicken sandwiches. Okay, these are Brett Beelamun numbers. Unfortunately, um, Brett Peeleham has a better job right now. Yes, he does. Bird has a better job in the division. God damn.

So, yeah. Closson is where I'm at a maybe. I'm striking him because of Serber's journalism. Yeah. I'm striking him because there's, I'm striking him because he likes the, my man likes the country club. If he eats,

if he eats at Portillo's after every win as Northwester head coach, he'll be dead in a year. He's already, and he's already got that kind of, he's already got that kind of mark, that kind of mark-wricked effect where he looks like his whole body's been dipped in paraffin no matter the season. And that's how he gets his tan? How did he die?

There's not a lot of bone structure to the man. I don't know if he can handle it. If he swells at Portillo's, if he gets salt-related water retention, I don't think there's any elasticity to his skin because of that wax. He'll tear. He just shatters. I think it's a good point that he is a rebuilds guy. He's good at it.

And this would be, this would up the difficulty. Next up, Mike, he can wait for the NC State job to come open in a year. Yeah, yeah. It'll always be open eventually. Are you just assuming, by the way, that they've just in perpetual rebuild? I love that you're like, NC State will always need Dave Klosson. What else are they doing? Do you call this building?

NC State is rebuilt. You know how like your body has none of the same cells from when you were born? Like, that's NC State. It's constant. It's the program of theses. It takes a lot of work to constantly have the same record. If Wolverine were trapped in a meat slicer, That would be in C.

If Wolverine sucked. They'd have like, honestly, Dave Doran is. Wolverine with no depth perception. Like, astigmatism, Wolverine. We're talking the best decade in, in NC State history is probably... That means a lot of things. And we're like, yeah, get him out of there.

Like, Dave Doran has... Chuck, a bottle is a legend. They'll fucking kill you. Yeah, come on now. We're not firing Dave Doran. We're just saying it'll be open at some point. We're not firing Dave Doran. We're sending him to Northwestern.

They're always good for the rebuild. You're like, you've been working on the house, Dave. Yeah, it looks like shit. Here, here. So let's send Dave Doran to Northwestern. I'm going to say four words and you tell me this can't be true. Oh, no. Dave Doran Vikings coach.

Sure. Okay. Fine. Yeah. There's a lot of the Vikings. I know how good his team is based on its record. they look seven and six they are seven and six perfect i think that's downright in neighborly of him he's he's perfect for kirk cousins sure like we were talking about coach dynamics just a quick

side anecdote here in the story that i heard about james harrison when he was at the steelers he got the starting gig finally in like game four of his season after the steelers had cut him three times bill cower had cut james harrison three times and he finally got the He got the starting job when Joey Porter, like he got playing time when Joey Porter got thrown out of a game before the game even started. He got to a fight. It was a Brown's game. Or no, it's Bengals game. He got thrown out of before the game started. Yes. And he got thrown out of it. So James Harrison gets on the field. James Harrison's a monster. They can't get him off. But James Harrison was also playing special teams at the time. And they said. First of all. And they said, oh, no, no, go back. Run that back again and give everybody a pause just to envision it. Yes. James Harrison was. Some of you were too young for this. James Harrison was running. coverage on kickoffs. Jesus Christ. And on punts. It's like you're loading.

It's like you're delivering a refrigerator in San Francisco and you lose the dolly. So, so James Harrison is now in on defense. And Bill Cowher goes to Dick Leboe and the defensive staff and the linebackers coach and says, hey, we need to give him a break because he's playing a lot out there. And that's a lot of snaps. We can take him off special teams now. And you could put someone else in. So he's at maximum freshness for defensive snaps.

And both the linebackers coach and the defensive coordinator looked at Bill Cower, NFL legend, and noted autocrat, Bill Cowher. And NC State Coach. And they told him, you tell him. And Bill Cowher said, I'm not going to do that. So he just played all of the snaps and no one said anything to say it. He's tight up now. That's fine. He's kicking extra points.

He brought orange slices. All right. Sorry, Jason, please continue. Next up on the list, and the point of this exercise is to demonstrate how screwed Northwestern is, right? Mike Elko, Duke head coach would be a strong consideration. Heck, he beat them last year, if I recall correctly. If you have the Duke job and you have put time into turning, you know, to turning things around, are you starting over in the Big Ten?

The argument I can see here is, if you're Mike U.S. Elko, and you're like, holy shit, people bought this. And you're like, I think Duke also has a brutal schedule this year. Server will know this better than I will. They are, I mean, they open with Clemson at home. That's a real mean thing to say about server. At home. They get Notre Dame at Florida State.

Yeah, it's not good. And the other thing, too, it's like, we're not sure that, like, Elko has worked at all. Sure. Like, this is Cutcliffe's program that he has brought to this level. God, damn right. right so like so like for him it's like get the fuck let's fucking go before they figure out that i'm not going to make this continue or before i figure that out yeah yeah like it's not going to work like that that is i think that is i think the one argument for like i don't i don't see this

as winning with cutt kuf's players he he he inverted the record it was three and nine to nine and four i'm not seeing a lot of one no i just mean like the fact that like four for, what, four of the final five years of David Cutcliffe's tenure, like Duke was in a bowl game, and that was a team that in five years would have maybe won four games for most of my life. Like I said, seven games, folk hero. I think we're remembering Cutcliffe from like almost a decade ago. No. They'll talk about my dad.

I will say this. If I'm Mike Alco, I'm like, all right, who will give me double what I currently make, Northwestern or Duke? I'll go with whoever does that. snapping the pool queue I love this idea I would like to I would like to talk about something realistically heat check something for me here

do we is it even possible to snag a current head coach from the P5 level at this point in July because would the fallout from the left behindedness of the former team I mean Michigan State did it Right, but Holly stipulated P5

Yeah, there, that's it So speaking of that, next on Bruce's list is Willie Fritz, Tulane Oh boy Are you leaving the Cotton Bowl champion favored to go back to the NY6 To start over at Ground Zero? Have any of you ever met Willie Fritz?

No, I have not. Dead eyes. He has these blank, black, steamboat willy-looking eyes that I think would make him a really strong addition to the Big Ten coaching fraternity but it's just it's just like staring into an animation cell

not in a good way they're terrifying say he goes to the go anywhere near the NY6 again right at that point could he get a far better job than Northwestern uh-huh I think so yeah that's the thing he could do I know he has the profile

but I want you to consider also the talent available within throwing distance of Tulane. Also, Willie Fritz has significant Southern coaching experience. And I really hate to say it like this, but we're truth-telling on this program. He doesn't have to go to fucking Chicago to coach. He can get a better job where there are no seasons. But isn't Willie Fritz the kind of, I'm not trying to just be contrarian here. isn't willie fritz the kind of coach who gets rumored every he's kind of where yeah yes every year like it's like oh maybe willie fritz he never but he never gets the final job

and he's 63 like he never gets the final job because he's terrifying in person but but his window has to be closing right i mean why would you why wouldn't you just go ahead and run this on out like that's a that's a very good point congratulations At this point, he can go down as a two-lane legend, or he can be, you know, the last memory of him is the guy who got fired by Northwestern four years ago. Yeah. No. Yeah, do you want to go out fired and cold? I would rather go out fired and warm.

That's my. There's no frost-top root beer in Chicago. Yeah, yeah. Also, by the way, a little note about Willie Fritz. He played college football at Pittsburgh State, where their mascot is. The gorilla. That is right. That is correct.

That's right. That is correct. This next one, I think it demonstrates. demonstrates how low my opinion is of Northwestern's desireability right now, because I think even this one is a no in July. Chris Creighton, Eastern Michigan head coach. Oh, absolutely not. I think even Creighton would be wise to stay put with his rebuild, get a better job elsewhere.

Because you know what you don't, you don't have to worry about at Eastern Michigan. Academic requirements. So there's that. here's here's an unpleasant way to view this if you take this job and it doesn't go well or it only goes like so so you have the story already built in for you you get to say like well you know i came in late a bunch of like i'm sure a bunch of players are going to transfer the athletic you know you get to tell the story about like you were not set up to succeed and so if you are chris crayton maybe this allows you to go make more money for a little bit of time, try to get a little bit more national attention. And then if after two years, it's a fucking shit show, you can say, like, yeah, I'm just going to move on. Like, is, is there an element of this where, like, the bar is so low that if you are just trying to use this as a stepping stone, this is a useful stop in some ways?

Perhaps. In a way that Eastern Michigan, like, would really have, like, to go back to. Willie Fritz. Willie Fritz has been at Tulane, what, like nine years or some shit? A while. It's taken him a long time to sort of get to that point. And I don't know. Like, do you want to spend a decade grinding it out at Eastern Michigan?

Or, like, it's not the same situation. Man, he's already, man, he's already. Do you know how long Chris Grayton's been at that gig? Very good time. You're going to puke. He's the winning as coach in EMU history, which isn't saying a whole lot. He is an EMU legend for going 4.30. He is 46 and 61 there because he has been there since 2014.

Oh, he's been, yeah, it's even long. It's been a damn minute. Yeah, if you've been there that long, fuck it, yeah. I guess my larger point is just like, somebody is going to, somebody might try to pull the Bill O'Brien here, where you come in, you get in two years, and then you're like, look at that. The Texans want me to be in charge of everything because the world is dumb. I think um so on bruce's list the last two current coaches no longer head coaches um offensive coordinators uh more at michigan and reese at alabama um michigan i'm like man that offense is kind of fucking loaded like you know after this year i would say pretty likely playoff run um you know

there there's going to be head coaching jobs in the running you know at some point there Tommy Reese, Northwestern head coach, I don't hate it. I really don't because Saban, you know, Saban can get sick of people pretty quickly. Tommy Reese, fourth and three. Can you imagine what Alabama message boards will look like if in the middle of... Oh, Jesus. As of now, I am not aware that Alabama has clearly identified QB1. Right.

and the OC who just showed up like four months ago is like I'm out but I'm going to take this mess of a job in Evanston thanks for having me yeah that's that's bad times all right all right well what are the other big 10 jobs that might open this year to sort of like spin this out a little bit because to me a lot of this is like Iowa no no no stop Stop. We're not doing that. We are not doing that. No one, he is never leaving. He is gone when he has gone. I will believe it when the door hits him on the ass and is locked behind him. Okay. UCLA. Maybe. Let's let's do it in rough order. Illinois is not opening. Unless Bert leaves. Yes. Okay. Let's say, let's say opening because of a firing. Leaving too hard to predict. So let's say Illinois is not firing Brett. Indiana might fire Tom Allen. That's very much on the table. I don't think Iowa we're skipping Maryland.

I don't think is firing Mike Loxley. Why are we talking about Maryland? I think it'd have to be a very, the same reason we're talking about UCLA. Because of the big 10 SEC rivalry. Right, right, right. I think we would classify any firing Mike Loxlate at this point. It's just like a dumb-ass Maryland thing, right?

Or something very bad happens. Yeah, so it's not the bad happens or they just get a bit of surprise. It would take a very big surprise. On the Mike Loxley scale of something big and bad happening, which is a lengthy metric. Jim Harbaugh is not getting fired by Michigan. It's just not happening. I don't think Mel Tucker is getting fired this year.

They can't afford to know. Nope, they can't. It's too much of money. I don't think PJ flex is getting fired by Minnesota. I think a meltdown could really... I mean, he's a meltdown prone. P.J. Fleck is quietly doing like better than fine over there. I think he's good for a minute.

He would have to win. They'd have to have like a three-win season. I'm not rolling it out ever, but... Okay. I don't think you should be fired, to be clear. Nebraska's not firing that rule. It's not going to happen. It'd be too funny

for that to happen in first year. It's like firing Teddy Rucks, but no way. I'm going to skip over one. Wisconsin's off the board. I'm going to skip over one and come over it. Penn State's not firing James Franklin. Oh, come on! They're not. Are you sure? Not this.

Not this year. He might leave, but no, no. He might leave, but, like, I don't think they're firing. Purdue's not firing. Ryan Walters, he's new. Rutgers is not firing Greg Shiano. That's not happening. Ever.

Ever. I put him in the Farrens category. Okay, Greg Shiano leaving for Northwestern would be the funniest possible thing because of a lot of the conference, right? All right. So that, and as Jason said, Wisconsin is not coming over. So I think there are two jobs that I'm like, maybe this job will come open. Indiana. And because it's who they are, Ohio State is the other job.

So Harbaugh can finish off Ryan Day and install his own assistant as Ohio State's head coach. So I guess what I'm saying is nobody on this list should take the Northwestern job because at the end of the year, you're sort of playing. You can take the Indiana job, which is basically like, They'll still get the Northwestern job. Indiana is basically the northwestern job with less mess at this point. Or maybe you can get the Ohio State job. Dave Cawson, go get the Ohio State job. I think for the show notes this week,

I'm just going to list direct quotes that people have said during this episode. Yeah. And we're going to let everybody have a good time figuring out what they mean. You know, by the way, just a note on Fleck, maybe their best coached like ever in a long time in a long time in a long time but all right so listen

no it's not there is no no ever I only think this is funny because of the relationship he has with his coaching peers also Murray Warmath the best college football coach name ever your name is literally the sport Murray Warmath but But besides that, since 1950, if we take that out.

Thank you. Okay. Since 1950, Murray Warmath, the legend, 18 seasons, a 526 winning percentage. Right now, after six, flex hanging at 6-2. He's hanging at 620. He's 44 and 27. Fortunately for him, you've stricken Pudge Heffelfinger from the record. Yes, because that person is not real.

You could have given me five tries, and I would have just kept saying, no, that's not real. Minnesota head coach. But Fleck is, Fleck has done a good job. I'm not saying. No, he got there and he shut the fuck up for the most part. Yeah, Fleck has done a good job. My point is he's volatile. Not really?

I mean, he's a volatile person. Is he the coach that I would. Not like he is, he has mellowed a lot, is what I'm saying. His teams have been chaotic from week to week. Yeah. I realize that's a thing in all of college football. I thought for a second you were going to say

he's the guy who you might see having like a full Coney 2012 nude and traffic breakdown oh 100% I'm like maybe but that would be

for recruiting purposes his teams have largely from the grand scheme VanVary Solid I'm not ruling out a year in which they are randomly horrible

hey good job whatever Minnesota staffer has kept PJ Fleck from having a TikTok account yeah seriously whoever whoever did the like Mike Leach Memorial phone swiping

for PJ congratulations because I don't I don't know at this moment what PJ Fleck thinks about vaccines and I'm so happy about that PJ flex nude on blue sky everybody that's fucking that's what Minnesota they call it a bluesky

that's what everyone who wants an invite we don't have any we're sharing them as quickly as we can but that's what you're missing all right we are a podcast business we are all on blue sky as of this moment, including server. I think you look real nice, Peach. Find us.

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