Shutdown Fullcast - Shutdown Fullcast 4.56 - A Crap Assessment of the SEC

Episode Date: November 28, 2016

Yes, we talk about the Ohio State-Michigan game, but it takes longer to get there than it should because we podcast like your grandmother drives: far too slowly and dangerous to others at night. Other topics! - A coach-by-coach analysis of which SEC coaches are crap - Pitt-Syracuse broke math - Nodding approvals of Arizona, Iowa, and NC State - The scenario in which Brian Kelly gets carried off the field by his players - How tragically bad our preseason predictions were - Oregon, the hell are you doing? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the shutdown fullcast. This is the Rivalry Week recap edition. We would have a more clever name, but we do not need one, because this year's Rivalry Week lived up to its billing as the settling of accounts in an unfair, unjust, an entirely entertaining way. Yes, a parade of petty, a cavalcade of spite. That's what this Rivalry Week edition for 2016 was.

I am Spencer Hall. SB nation person. Change my title weekly. Ryan Nanny joining us from Brooklyn, New York. Say hi. Hi. How's it going? Pretty well.

Hey, where did Nick Fitzgerald go to school, Ryan? You teach Chattanooga. Wait, no. That's where he might have gone had he not been plucked away from the mocks to play for Mississippi State. That's true. And what they do this weekend? Just to give you an idea of the kind of spite we're going to be describing, praising, and reviewing for you.

Um, old miss, they put it on you. They put it on you bad. 5520. I mean, and, and said Nick Fitzgerald ran for 258 yards on the ground. Landshark seems an appropriate term for this oldness defense because they flop on the ground and die.

UT Chattanooga. My God. It's just, Um, yeah, y'all got your asses just absolutely whooped. Two players for Mississippi State ran for 190 yards. That's insane. Old Miss, old miss is a team barely got to 200. So you know what?

Like, I, I, I, I, Ole Miss is in the curious position of, yes, Hugh Freeze has taken the program to, uh, heights that previous coaches would have loved to reach. But this season, their best win is, arguably the one point win against Texas A&M. After that, it's Georgia, and after that

Ha, he, ah, boy, um, yeah. Hugh Freeze tweeted it last night, but Hugh Freeze looked like he spent the night in a bad place. He looked, he looked at half. At the half time, it looked like he'd gone through chemo. He looked bad.

He looked shaken, shaking to his core. He looked like he no longer believed in the love he so enjoys talking about on a regular basis. That's how bad this loss was. Jason Kirk from beautiful Kennesaw, Georgia. Hey, are you indoors? Yeah, at the moment.

It's below 50 degrees outside, so I'm incapable of going outside. So y'all get blessed with adequate audio quality today. Hey, man, stay safe out there. And those temperatures, whew. Yeah, I know, right? 50s. Ooh.

Actually, it has peaked over. 50 but can't risk it can't risk it i mean you really jason's not going outside unless the temperatures in like syracuse pit territory i assume yeah we're going to need numbers that make you say basketball season already yeah yeah because because let's put it this way Pittsburgh who i deemed this year's most important team not involved in the playoff because they will probably have two wins over playoff team they ended up beating syracuse and everyday occurrence one would assume It's like a three and eight, right? Syracuse team or three and seven Syracuse team

or whatever they were, four and seven coming into this game. Everyone should beat Syracuse. And it's true, Pitt did beat them. They beat them by a score of 76 to 61. And because we like to tackle the big things here on the podcast first, we'll just go over a few of these numbers for you because we like math. In the fourth quarter, if you like a flurry, if you like a sprint to the finish,

Pitt Syracuse was your game because they scored 47 points in the fourth quarter 47 points and in the relatively docile second quarter they only scored 28 points between the two teams Syracuse had 38 first downs

Pitt almost had as many yards 644 to 668 but only had 20 first downs meaning they were just biting off whole hunks. Pit only ran 59 plays. They bought the jumbo plays. And that includes

some kneel downs at the end. So like, my God. Yeah, you would assume this was my other favorite stat of the week, by the way, in a rivalry game humiliation at the hands of Clemson. Okay? I mentioned this in the top, whatever. 56 to 7.

That's what Clemson did. South Carolina. Clemson had 41 first downs. Now, normally you see this kind of thing in a game like Oklahoma, Texas Tech, where one team is just, one team is putting up massive points, the other one is responding, and you get this shootout. Nope, what this means is a classic well-must-champ football, it means that they were making tackles all the way to the end and extending the pain and the bleeding as far as they could possibly go in a few effort. South Carolina showed up to a mini-gun fight with a slap bracelet. It did not go great. But they didn't give up. They kept slapping, no one.

They just kept if they ever stopped slapping. These aren't allowed in schools because they're dangerous. Go Cox. Just, I mean, the effort, the effort it takes to give someone 41 first downs and keep them in the game like that, despite already being up, to not let them go the other 30. yards to the end zone and just give up an arm tackle man that's that's some some noble defeat there that was i mean i mean i mean in true dabbo fashion this is a baptism and you survive south carolina so so technically it's successful one i think i think south carolina i don't think they got the point of the baptism it was like they thought it was like an endurance thing like see how long

you can stay under okay we're at three minutes He's getting so close to Jesus. Starting to worry. Other great moments of spite, I would like to highlight a few before we get to the larger issues, i.e. your Michigan, Ohio State, which frankly, as spiteful and storied as a rivalry can possibly be, certainly fits in this category. But a few moments of highlights for those who might have fallen under the radar. First of all, it would be cool.

North Carolina, with a couple of other dominoes, could have made the ACC change. championship game. But nope, NC State. They really wanted that Continental Tire Bowl or wherever the hell they're going to play in Charlotte. Yep, they beat them 28, 21 to finish 6 and 6 and knock North Carolina out of ACC championship consideration. I assume one of the other dominoes that you're referring to would have been Virginia winning. Mm-hmm. Okay. All right, cool. That's a big domino. That's a pretty big domino. That's a whole damn wall. That's a building That's a building that needed to fall

I do like to make it more spiteful by pointing that out Also that NC State just got up 21-0 And kind of sat on North Carolina Love it when that happens Additional rivalry spite Arkansas really wanted to finish strong No man really wanted to you know Hit the tape sprinting right

Yeah they lost to They lost to Missouri A 4-8 Missouri team So November is dead is dead No, they were two and two. Well, they were better in the other months. They were. November lasted three years.

We'll even give them credit for the first year when they were a better bad team, but it was a three-year run. Yeah, it was a good one, too. But really admiring the spite and backbone shown in Missouri. We called it. Since they started conference play, they have not won games back. to pack. So we already called this loss. God, we're brilliant. We are. And you know, that counts for

spot in the trends. That counts for nothing, aka zero, which is what Arkansas scored in the second half. Mm-hmm. Rolling on, I only got one more. Okay, maybe two more, that I really want to mention in terms of rivalry week's bite.

Arizona State Arizona was the late game on Friday. And this is pretty dismal going in Arizona two and nine they were oh and seven in the pack 12 going in and not a good oh and seven either nope getting lapped not staying on the track not competitive uh hey hey Jason what happened to Arizona State is that what we're uh yeah yeah yeah come on this that's the conversation we're having right now okay uh well they they don't have uh I think they only played with defenders. It was very sad. Some guys got lost on the way to the stadium. The stadium's not

very far away. Those two campuses are pretty close, but they only had nine defenders, and they were all, they were all back covering the pass, which turned out to be the wrong idea, because Arizona put up, was it, 511 rushing yards? Is that right? That's a number in my head. That can't be right. God. 512. I was selling them short. Give them free feet. Do you remember when Arizona State was five in a and not a single person bought it. Like, I think we on here just kind of, huh? I think that was our reaction.

Yeah. Yeah. And, yeah, it turned out that was, yeah, turned out we were all right about Arizona State. That was the real. Brandon Dawkins attempted. How many passes? How many?

How many? Eight. Eight. Who? They beat Arizona State 5635. and deny them a bowl-eligible record by throwing the ball eight times and only completing three passes. Arizona, you are the best team in the world this week. Let's, can we, can we also give a little shout out to Iowa, though?

Because my God, Iowa, Iowa put up 40 points on Nebraska, and they did it without any field goals. Not one. Like, this was just a blunt. This was a bloodletting. And it's not as if Nebraska didn't have anything to play for. They still needed help to get to the Big Ten championship game. But, you know, part of it was helping themselves first. And hey, look at that.

It's a 9-win Nebraska team. I'll be damned. When have we seen those before? If they lose their bowl game, what would they be? They'd be 9-4. 9-4. That's weird. Interesting.

They've really got this program turned around. But they're a much politer. Nine and four now. So they really are. They'll just let you have 40 points. September, September 4th, it's more than Bofellini Day now. Aw. Anything else that we miss the particular hate that you don't think we're going to get to later?

I mean, Texas. Yeah. That just feels sad. Oh, oh, you know what? We might want to mention one. Might want to mention one. Yeah. The ACC, the ACC went three and one against the SEC.

What was the one? If you had to pick that one in a million tries, I mean, you'd probably get it in a million tries. But it wouldn't be soon, wouldn't be early in the series. No, man. Kentucky. That would be Kentucky, the worst football team on the planet. Pride of the SEC East.

Now, if you had all, if you had the whole SEC East to play a round raven starting right now. Yeah. You'd probably pick Kentucky. I mean, I don't know. I'd throw Vandy in the mix, buddy. Yeah, no, I don't want to snub or spite Vandy. I don't want, I don't want, I don't want, I don't want any part of your standard SEC power rankings reversed in exactly that order. I don't want any part of Vandy right now, because Kyle Shermer learned how to pass over the last three weeks.

Well, well, well, hold on, hold on. He got a little help. Tennessee. No, Ted is, okay, I hear what you're saying, but Tennessee is all about like, here, let me just, oh, you can't reach the top shelf, here, why don't we just give you a little boost? There you go, 400 yards, it's right up there, just grab it, go get it, you did it. I'm so prattie. A stiff ladder defense. The bumpers on the side of the lane and bowling, that's what Tennessee is giving you defensively.

Shit, it's more than that. Tennessee's going down and kicking three pins over for you. Hey, you're already. Look at that. You just need seven now. They just have Derek Barnett to make them feel good about themselves. Like, we got a defender. One. God.

Yeah, they're injured. But still, Calhstrom were throwing ropes against the Tennessee defense. But still. But I'm going to give them credit. This narrative should not be undimmed or should not be dimmed by your pessimism or realism. I just, I really appreciate that the, the sort of name brand teams of the SEC East all had the decent. all had the decency to look like total shit at the same time so that none of us can laugh at each other. It's the most three stooges way to end the regular season because we all have

pie on our face and have slipped and broken our tailbones. Before we discuss exactly why the SEC is such complete crap this year, and there are a lot of real tangible reasons. Kentucky Had 581 yards of offense 581, baby They had 589ed Louisville They outgained legendary brain

Bobby Petrino and the likely Heisman winner Lamar Jackson They dominated them at the line of scrimmage They had 229 yards rushing I think they ran like eight plays Maybe maybe eight plays Stephen Johnson

Stephen Johnson was a monster at quarterback he had 338 yards he was the better passer he didn't throw three interceptions Lamar Jackson did and that's that's secretly the most annoying part of this I don't care that Kentucky won

I would have been fine if Kentucky had just won this game I'm super annoyed that now we have to talk about the Heisman and like it was so nice to just be like yeah Lamar Jackson's going to win it don't even bother don't pay attention to it and now we have to have this like real aggravating

well you know he collapsed down the stretch that's what Louisville needed him the most and isn't this no I just don't want to do it he didn't collapse down the stretch no but people people will say he did people will say he did his numbers

his numbers the last like month of the season weren't nearly as good as numbers at the beginning his numbers at the beginning were fucking insane his numbers included turnovers so his numbers his numbers also included getting sacked part 11 times sure and yes he doesn't have an offense line he does not have an offensive line at all no i mean i i hear you i hear but um it should be a conversation now should you know if if we give a shit about this trophy which none of us do none of us spencer does because he's a voter and he's already voting for sefo leofow so

spencer doesn't give a shit spencer just votes remember Remember, I cannot actually discuss this because the Heisman has this brilliant policy of, you know, don't discuss it ahead of time. Yeah. We wouldn't want anyone to have a discussion about the thing that we're trying to protect and promote, right? Yeah, it's like voting for Pope, shrouded in secrecy. And also, nobody from Kentucky will ever win it. If you take a selfie in the booth while writing down your Heisman vote, you'll be arrested.

yeah that's it the heisman police will come and get me billy sims will knock on my door and yell billy sims might do that actually he really might he really might but now we have to have this fake discussion about a fake story this is a total facebook story please share i don't think we're sure i'm clay Travis and i'm going to tell you exactly what you think and act like it's controversy what i mean in any other year sure sure let's let's let's let's let's Let's keep an open mind and see who else is deserving. It's just there's no other option. There's no clear second best choice.

I mean, Alabama has like three running backs. Unless you're going to give it to all of them. That's always the fallback option. Just give it to somebody from Alabama. The team. But sure, sure, fine, fine. Let's argue about the Heisman. Who is Louisville going to play in a bowl game now?

Do we have the projections up for that yet? either they can hang on to the orange ball spot that ain't happening thanks florida well they did beat florida state by 43 points it comes down to a louisville or fSU has a head to head they must be amazing then by the way i mean they both lot they both lost to clemson that evens out a loss to kentucky is comparable to a loss to north carolina um look at the records they really are and otherwise um louisville stomped florida state head to head and also lost to Houston. I mean, their resume is really close,

and I feel like the rankings on Tuesday will give us a good look. And then Bama beats Florida and further degrades one of Florida State's best wins. So it's either Louisville in the Orange Bowl against Michigan or Penn State or Wisconsin or Ohio State, or it's, you know, down in the Russell Athletic or something.

Let me, let's get to the question of, Why is the SEC such ass? Why is it so bad? Why? We ask, is it so, so very, very bad? We all have varying theories on this. And they're pretty material. There's not a lot here that seems to, like, not make a lot of sense.

Ryan? The coaches are shitty. Hey, look at that. The coaches are shitty and trying to copy, like, the uncopyable Alabama blueprint at this. When, like, it's funny to think back to when Urban Meyer first came to Florida. And he didn't succeed by saying, like, hey, who's already doing well in the SEC? Let me do that shit. No, he was like, nah, I got something new.

I'm going to try something different. Oh, wait. Look at that. It worked. Like, oh, God. Let's just start at the top. Okay. And I don't want you to go like crap or not crap.

Okay. You can just use one word to describe each of them. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. Okay. So Alabama, Nick Sabin. He's definitive. not crap. He's definitely

not a crap coach. Yeah. I think so, yeah. Yeah, I can verify. It's not. Arkansas. We're at Bilema. Let's be real honest here. Usually not crap, relatively compared to long-term program. There's no real short way to say it.

I mean, shit. Wisconsin's just as good if not better without him. Yeah. Wisconsin controlled its own national title destiny. And it's not like the Big Ten got easier in the interim. It got a hell of a lot fucking harder. Yeah, because he built it up. Yeah, that's right.

So grand. Yeah. So glorious. Let me give you, do you know Brett Bealem is record at Arkansas right now with a salary with a salary of $4 million in a career record? No, I mean, in Congress. Oh, just right now? His record right now at Arkansas with a $4 million salary. and a massive buyout.

I think they're three and five in conference. Yes, I mean, overall. Overall, since he walked in, now we can bust it down a conference, that's going to look way worse. I'll just give you a little spoiler. It'll look way worse. Yeah.

He's got to be, if we're talking overall record, he's got to be one or two games above or below 500. Jason, got a guess? Overall? Yeah, overall. I'll say a couple games over 500. He has 25.

and 25 and in conference an in conference is 10 and 22 right now that perfect 10 yeah it's 10 and 22 Gus Malz on Gus Malz on crap or not crap

not crap overall not crap yeah because who you look at who Auburn lost to this season and by and large you can explain away all of it yeah I'm going to go not crap he's definitely not crap the georgia game was crap but it was

mismanaged injury planning basically which is not ideal but overall you have to say not crap fresh out of quarterbacks which yeah ultimately that's his you know that's his fault but still yeah which by the way that's another factor in the SEC being crap quarterbacks

right like Auburn couldn't keep one healthy and they really didn't have one on the pipeline who sort of stepped up or who they developed up or who they developed thus far. No, they had a Heisman candidate. Did you not know? Oh, who was that? It was Jeremy Johnson, not I... Yeah, he started against Bama.

Yep. Wow. It's crazy. They had that, and they've had a former star Jucco backup. The next one, the next one's going to be a difficult answer for me. Jim McAwell, Jim McAway in Florida. Like, like, perfectly average.

Yeah. I'm going to say, no, I'm going to say definitively not crap. No, I mean, I appreciate that, but you are watching Will Mustchamp after he went to obedience school. Correct. That's what this is. He's not crap. He's not what I want, but he's not crap. Like I am irrational. I would want to fire him after yesterday. That's not going to happen. This is the, I feel like he is our George H.W. Bush, where we're like, yeah, none of this is memorable and you're not going to get a second term. But I think we don't hate you. I don't know. There are people we hate more. Let's say that. four years and I wish you well.

Enjoy your library. Sure. The next one's fun. Kirby Smart. Crap. You just hit him with the one got to go. No, man. I mean, that Georgia team,

fuck that, man. They are absolute crap right now. And for everybody who wants to be, oh, they're going to be so good next year, Jacobese, and blah. You know what? We ain't talking about next year. We're talking about,

this year where they did nothing. They did nothing. If it's not for the Auburn game, they lose to all of their rivals and to Vanderbilt and get hammered by an old Miss team that doesn't even end up making a bowl. This team is crab. I think at this point, Vandy's been elevated to a rival.

Yeah, no, it's the rivalry, man. Just throw them on, and I mean, old miss, shit, man. Those are the two churchiest, fratiest schools. So sure, you lost to all your rivals. This is, I mean, this is the, yeah, go ahead. Jim McElwain, we decided it was not crap, but he does not have a quarterback for some reason, two years into this. When people say, well, man, he hasn't gotten to work with one of his quarterbacks yet. Well, who's goddamn fault is that?

Yeah, I mean, you're the coach. I think it's the online pharmacy's fault, but. I mean, there's that. But still, man, contingency planning. I know. Other coaches have made this work. other coaches have done this. You've lost to FSU twice in a row.

No one should lose to Florida State at anything. I mean anything. Man, loses. Life, income. Lose is fucking complimentary for what Florida's done to Florida. Like, I'll just own it right now. Florida State from top to bottom is better than Florida. That's why it's hard to get mad at that game.

It's like, yeah, one of these teams came into the season as a legitimate national title. contender that things just didn't really break the right way for and the other one was not expected to win a crappy division but somehow stumbled literally ass backwards into it so like i can't i can't be mad it's like one of these teams is much better organized and run than the other yeah yeah like this this team the roster looks like somebody went shopping when they were hungry that's what it looks like i don't know pick up one of those why there's so many twizzlers i forgot back again like yeah that's put twizzlers in twizzlers

throw d sure and it should be it should be mentioned by the way Kirby smart has a quarterback like they got a quarterback he's good he also has an offensive coordinator who sometimes does things like passing when they have a lead against the team they can run the ball at will on which resulted in an interception

which resulted in Georgia Tech getting the tying TD which resulted in Georgia Tech eventually getting the winning TD yesterday We had 28-21. Georgia lost to Georgia Tech. That should not happen in the modern era. How the fuck do you outrush Georgia Tech on the exact same number of carries and lose at home? That did that, like, none of that makes sense.

Georgia Tech is not an especially complex equation box score-wise, but you managed to fuck it up, Georgia. Yeah. Way to go. Kirby. Smart. crap. Move on. Next. Butch Jones. Crap.

Crap. You know what? I wasn't going to get to Bush Jones yet, but I want to do a preview crap. That's how crap Butch Jones is. Yeah. All right. Who's next?

It sounds like Kirk Farrant in that clip. Crap. Kentucky, Mark Stoops. I'm going to argue not crap. I mean, seems like not crap. He's Schrodinger's crap. Shrodinger's crap.

Because like, you know what? This team's still lost to Southern Miss. This team still got hammered by Florida. This, I mean... Hey, that's a... Southern Miss is a bowl team, buddy. I understand. I hear you on all that.

Down 13-0 to Austin P as recently as last week. This team is crap and not crap at the same time. I think not crap. I mean, Kentucky should be bad. Kentucky should have horrible, ugly losses. I mean, if Kentucky goes seven and five, not crap. don't give a shit how it got there next ed orgeron ed ogeron um i'm i'm gonna go for the moment yeah i'm going i'm going not crap not crap not crap um the real problem is going to be when

when the standard at lSU becomes very clearly not this binary that we have set up i would also add by the way mark stoop has a quarterback i think stephen johnson's going to be fine When we go to why your quarterback is crap, but he's young. That's another reason the SEC suck. There's just been this massive turnover at quarterback. Ed Ogeron, no quarterback, not a real promising thing if you're looking for negatives going into 2017. He also has no, he also has no Cam Cameron. So I'll take that if I'm in LSEC.

Yeah, that's coming out high. Speaking of, have a quarterback might kind of be crap. I'm going to say Hugh Freeze. Hugh Freeze is not crap. No, Hugh Fries, I don't think, manage this season all that well, but you are allowed to have one, when you have taken a program from where it was to where they got, you are allowed to have one down five and seven year and it not be a total blemish on your, uh, on your record. So yeah, he, he gets provisional not crap status. Provisional not crap. He's on crap probation. He's on crap watch. Yeah, he's on crat watch, but does have a quarterback, because Jay Patterson's going to be real good.

They threw him in with zero prep, and he did pretty well. So I think they'll be pretty good. A weird one, Barry Odom. Barry Odom. No one knows. Yeah, don't care. Just don't care. How many total minutes did we watch of Mizzou this year?

I watched not a single second. Same. Yeah, I'm going to go. I watch two games. I'm going to go with crap so far. We are not qualified to weigh in, but. Will Must champ. Crap, has a quarterback, crap.

Bull, eligible. Yeah, it's kind of, I mean, you know what? I will kind of, I'll kind of side with Jason here and say, I don't think, I don't think, well, must champ's great, but South Carolina was better than I thought they would be this year. I thought they would not be in most games. And other than the Clemson game, they really didn't get hammered by anybody. They lost, you know, their fair share,

but they weren't getting tore apart. So let's go by the Hugh Free standard. A coach has allowed one losing season, right? Yeah. Well, well, Must Champ has one losing season. Oh, you know what? You know what? I just, ah.

Please go to the next one, Spencer. Please. I got a hard one. Okay. I think another difficult one. Kevin Semone? Mm-hmm. Man, like that's...

It's not crap, but boy, is it, boy does it spoil quickly. You want to talk, you want to talk about not having a winning record in conference since his first season at coach. Being stuck on eight and five. If they lose their bowl game,

they'll be eight and five. I mean, eight wins is good. Like, sure, it looks bad to get a big record and then blow it. But if they pulled, you know,

if they did it the other way around or if they were more judicious with the wins, we wouldn't have the same opinion. I'm going to go knock crap. there was a bunch of weird stuff that happened at quarterback had two or three transfers all at once um and a bunch is it why is that why is that not our why is that not on him that's his roster but i mean if we're going to get a few frees a pass for all the shit that happened this year um sure sure sure let's let's do the same for sumlin um i mean it's it's really easy to look at eight wins like

best just shit, but it's A wins. It's not great. It's not great. It's not worth $5 million a year, but it's not crap. That's two wins better than we said Texas A&M was going to be this year. We said 6 and 6 and they went 8 in 4. That's true. And I'll point out not really a defined quarterback situation coming back. So on our two factors, I'm just going to go, Kevin Sumlin, not crap.

I will say this. This year, with this SEC West, for Texas A&M to not eat. even finish top three in the division that's pretty crap hmm yeah but is anybody really top three in there I feel like no no

it's it's a time for fourth standings are everyone is sixth I don't care what the numbers say Mississippi State creeping up to fifth place yeah we can go trending crap if you want okay that's fine

additionally we we have two more coaches to go Derek Mason Ah, you know what? Before this year, I would have been like definitive crap. Nope. I'm going to, after this year, I'll say this, crap, but trending non-crapily. I'm going to go to not crap. Okay. I'll just say straight up, not crap. Also, if you go six and six at Vandy, no matter how down the division is, not crap. Yeah, I, yeah, that's totally accurate.

Okay. So we'll just go overall, not crap on him. have a quarterback uh yeah I'm afraid so I'm I'm just as confused by this as you are but here we are finally I want to do one where we can just pile on the crap

Butch Jones crap complete crap who crap absolutely crap Tennessee what did you do what did you do and like oh my God

Tennessee what did you do I don't need to even point to anything on the field to say he's crap at all it's oh it's yeah it's it's I will say this Tennessee did a really impressive job of the first really like the first five games of the year the defense pretty much carried them the Georgia game was kind of an exception but like the defense was it kept them long around long enough in the Florida game to come back and win it defense absolutely won them the app state game they recovered a shit ton of fumbles in the Virginia Tech game. And then towards the end of the season, kind of like from South Carolina, that loss on,

the defense was just like, well, we did our part. We'll see y'all later. So all those lucky breaks in the first five games, half those go the other way. And this is a five and seven or six and six team. Oh, boy. And then he's absolutely fired, right? Yeah. Probably ought to.

I mean, that would be it. That's before you consider any Title IX implications. I mean, if you were fired less miles because you couldn't get a snap off against Auburn. Yeah. How are we rolling with that? How's that going to look when we look at the 2016 Tennessee team? You know, there's two dudes who, if they just wanted to walk, like, this sport doesn't miss them. It doesn't miss a damn thing.

And they're both Cincinnati. Cincinnati born and bred. all Cincinnati does is crank out lovable men Mark Dantonio stands as the most lovable coach to ever come from Cincinnati A man who Google search for Mark Dantoneo smiling will be like Sorry no results found

The Mark Dantoneo smiling is always like the disrespect meme So even him smiling is like He's thinking about how much everyone hates him Yeah But I mean compared to the other It's compared to Brian Kelly and Bush Jones i mean mark d'antony is sterling lovable citizen of beloved beloved man yeah and he's done some like kind of sus stuff when it comes to letting players back on the team and it's not even

close to butch jones not even close yeah yeah and it's not close to like brian kelly's general heir of malignant like scorn for everything around oh well don't worry brian kelly's going to dump you before you dump him anyway. I'm looking at my option. You go right ahead. I'm definitely not looking at my options. I don't know. How many times we talked about this? Yeah, definitely not.

Notre Dame, by the way, is now 4 and 8. They lost 4527 to USC. Adori Jackson was a monster in that game. God, he's good. That game just didn't. It didn't even matter at this point. Sorry, Notre Dame. You're just like, I would have been fine if we had gone this whole

podcast and not even mention Notre Dame. No, I'm going to mention them for two reasons. I know, because you hate Notre Dame and you're full of spite. Yeah, no, no, no. Full of burning hatred for this team in this program. Especially because two things. One, Brian Kelly kept the team on the field in the rain in L.A., which I maintain when it's raining in L.A., that's psychological warfare.

It doesn't make any sense. Everyone's thrown off by it. Notre Dame made him stay on the field, blocked everyone getting on the field. so he could lecture his team, which I'm sure they really appreciated on the boot end of a 24-7 ass kicking at the time to say that that's not the way Notre Dame played. And the team responded,

particularly Jerry Tilleri, because Jerry Tilleri, a defensive line for Notre Dame, kicked a dude in the head, I believe his acesedric wear, kicked him in the head when he was on the ground with what most people think is probably a concussion. Yeah, Tillory just sort of, you know, boopped him in the head of his foot as he walked by and stepped on another player's ankle that's how he responded to

brian kelly's lecturing yeah the the head the head brush i can i can write that off as like didn't see him didn't know what he was doing the ankle stop it's like oh he squared up he line that he oh just got him in his sights it was like crush yeah and the stump was one where you say okay you know the benefit of the doubt we were giving you on the other one that that's gone that's gone that's gone that's it's it um i'm looking at notre dames 2017 schedule. They opened the season at home with Temple and Georgia. There is a non-zero possibility that Notre Dame brings back Brian Kelly after a very disastrous

four and eight season and starts the season, oh and two, with losses to Temple and Georgia at home. Contemplate. Think that'd be a wrap. Yeah. Gotta say it might. to say it might. That'd probably be a wrap. Also,

you think players, I think players are going to buy back into this? You think players are going to circle up, extend the love to this extremely charismatic man? No, I don't think so. Brian Kelly. Brian Kelly being carried off the field after his

like, firing, securing loss. They douse. Against his will. They lose by 30 points to USC and douse coach and carry them off. Put me down. Why did they, why did they have a, why did they have a gatorade bucket full of kerosene

anyway? That seems weird. What I would not give to see a man who was paid that much money to coach college football picked up by his players, carried a loft on their shoulders, and thrown into a dumpster. Oh, I would pay so much money to that. Wiggling and trying to break free. Hey, uh, I pay your salaries. Oh, like a giant shaved EWalk, gross.

This reminds me that Georgia, you absolutely deserve to lose to Georgia Tech because you know who you brought in to consult, Brian Van Gord. Yeah, you chose to do that. You chose to do that. Tell us what you're going to see. Another rivalry fallout, I love that we get like 40 minutes into this podcast before we discuss the act. biggest game that's great

Ohio State Michigan probably like you know like one of what it was that yeah I mean it was it was it had its share of sloppy

and it had its share of rough fuckery so it was not the best played most pristine game of the season but it was one of the most fun to watch

it was the game of the year I don't think I mean this was the game of the year would you put it over Clemson Louisville at this point yeah

yeah yeah I I would for... I would probably disagree, but I think... Well, at the time, Clemson Louisville had the same stakes. Yeah, but staging and the fact that, you know, Clemson Louisville, that's an interesting, intriguing, budding rivalry in the ACC. This is church. This is, you know, like, I don't really like to carry over credit historically too much, but, you know, you play at noon in Ohio Stadium and it looks shitty and cold.

What about Oregon, Oregon State? We throw in that in there? That's in there. That's right up there. Okay, we'll get to that. We'll get to that. Don't worry. Top five.

Yeah, Michigan, what's confusing to me is that Michigan got what I thought was a really impressive performance from a very hurt, Wilton Spate. And they just couldn't do anything with it. Or they couldn't do enough with it, I should say. Yeah, and also this, that Michigan, a run team, Michigan got 91 yards on the ground. I know they had three turnovers. There were not many yards. No, there were not many yards in the ground from Michigan at all. I don't expect that's going to be the case in the future.

I mean, Michigan's just going to bow up and get bigger and meaner and more hard ballish along the offensive line. But man, you've got to do better than that, particularly when Ohio State. That was all Ohio State really could do was run the ball. And that they couldn't even get going until pretty damn late. Go three and out. Go three and out. go three and out finally break one that was pretty much it and then count on the quarterback with one arm to cough up the ball a few times

which you did uh including yeah the play of the like if you want to know a play of the game michigan fans i know you will side up stills angles multiple pieces of evidence dames ms paint arrows you can see the ball goes back into the left back and back into the left back into the left It did go back into that man's ass. It did go back into the action more to the right, but still. To his left. Dossiers and well-documented, very empirical cases for why the angle of the light reveals that, in fact, a spot went one way or the other. Here's what I appreciate about the Big Ten referees who made that.

Like, there is a very compelling case to be made that the Big Ten referees fucked over Michigan earlier in this game at multiple points. Like, I am absolutely willing to hear it. I think they miss a lot of calls, and I think the sort of the disparity in the penalty numbers makes you at least scratch your head. But this call, this fourth down call was so close and in real time was so hard to parse and wasn't so clearly wrong. on review that you walk that they left you what they left you with was one that was just like yeah man close calls happen and so that's all we're talking about and not in any other shit that they got wrong yeah that and i mean i'll give you a shoo a couple of p i calls in there a couple of rough non-PI calls in there against michigan but you know what again you don't

leave it up to that you don't fumble on the one yard line you you don't run the ball as badly as Michigan ran it, and you don't let Ohio State do what they did late in the game, which is drive for winning scores on the ground. It's really cool to watch Ohio State, by the way, because they have this Urban Meyer thing where they go, oh, we're not gaining any yards running. Cool, we're just going to keep running. Eventually, eventually you'll die if I just keep hitting you hard enough. Since I just looked earlier today, we put up a collection of every Michigan fan Zaprudering that's gone on with that final call and I just looked in

the SB Nation CFB Twitter account people have sent three new ones that I had yet to see so far good good good good they're still innovating and finding new ways to draw arrows and lines on the same set of pictures I you know what 11 Warriors I will buy the shirt that you're making about this play just already put me down for one I know it's gonna be I know it's gonna be mean as shit

Land Grant Holy Land That just popped up They have one that says Actually, the spot was good I think that's probably The most honest and concise argument I'm one over Why not?

Yeah, this was I did really enjoy watching this game though Especially because You know, anytime one coach Gets a 15-yard personal foul For throwing his papers I'm totally for it that to me is a sign that you're doing rivalry correctly so i will say this um obviously the game

is the game and ohio state wants to win it no matter where they are in the course of their season but obviously this one had intensely high uh implications for the rest of the season as a whole i do not i mean i i understand that ohio state fans are all about you know let's get into the playoff let's do some damage there we've seen this story before Ohio State team that people don't believe in gets in with the last seed runs, runs wreckage over

the rest of the conference, or over the rest of the playoff, et cetera, et cetera. J.T. Barrett's numbers, man, they are like you can pick any number of bad big 10 quarterbacks and in a lot of the relevant

categories he is just fucking lagging man. It's not good. It's not. It's not. And this team, this team, they're really not on the whole going to blow your doors off. But J.T. Barrett does have one advantage, by the way. Two advantages.

His left leg, his left leg and his right leg? His left leg and his right leg. Make it four. Four advantages total. He gets his defense to play behind, which is the defense that just beat the defense that previously was ranked ahead of them in terms of S&P. they were they were actually they were one Bama's two and they managed to still put together winning drives against that

defense J.T. Barrett's just he will at one point make a marginal difference he's not going to do anything spectacular but he will do something that you cannot answer defensively and in a game that they play that's that close and relies on field position and defense it'll make a difference also

if Ohio State's kicker had been accurate this game would have been over we wouldn't have even had OT. He had one of those aberrant games where he just missed two field goals, including a gimmie out of nowhere. So it really, going to OT, this shows you where Michigan is. This is how long it takes, by the way,

if you're dealing with one of these monstrosities of a program that's capable of, like, sucking up that much talent and collateral and momentum all by itself, your Alabama or your Ohio state, there's really very few, maybe Texas. This is another program that can do that.

This is how long. it takes to climb the hill against them. Michigan's lost to them with Harbaugh twice in a row now, once in the closest game in program history that Michigan lost. Right? This is the first time, I think the first time had been to OT. In the history of the

series, yeah. Yeah, the first time I'd been to OT in the history of the series. And it and this was, and they lost. Like, in Michigan is recruiting the doors off of that program. And they're still that much behind.

right so like you're watching it you go this all makes sense and i still like bleed for michigan because god damn that sucked they'll be fine i don't you know they'll be fine they'll be fine i mean they will be fine but for 24 but for 24 hours you just want to like free base absent salt i would i would like to dispel one myth here i think a lot of people walk away from this and they're like oh man michigan fans are really going to bitch about the refereeing now i promise you that was true no matter whether or not Michigan won this game oh that's a very good point

yes we won the game however I am concerned about I have an as the following eight pages will attest thread thread thread double I'm sorry double Wolverine

undergrad O2 law school 07 my brief is as follows um hey guess what colorado plays in the pack 12 championship game yeah that's cool that's right that's probably true and accurate good job right thanks um i i took the liberty of pulling together our our uh preseason predictions just to see how wrong we were um man colorado we did you dirty we said five and seven we said you would barely miss a bowl game and you fucking showed us We felt great about that. We felt like we were really boosting Colorado. We did. We thought we were, yeah, we were, I will say this. I haven't pulled our, our big 12 numbers are still sort of contingent on the last week of games. I threw out everybody that we, if you were within a game on either side of our prediction, I basically said that we were right, because I think that's a fair margin of error. The ACC, we did really well. The teams we got wrong, Wake Forest, we said they were going to go three and nine. They actually.

went six and six claw fence forever uh georgia tech we said you were going to go 10 and 2 and that still feels insane but they did they did at least go 8 and 4 so we were off but not like huge margins off every other conference i mean we got 7 teams wrong in the big 10 we got 7 teams wrong in the pack 12 we got 7 teams wrong in the SEC we're really bad at this like aggressively bad at this. I'm proud. I don't care. We left it all in the field.

We tried our best. We tried to guess. And ultimately, yeah, we were wrong, flagrantly wrong. But we should be proud of that wrongness. We said UCLA was going to go nine and three. Man, we really, we really should have bailed the minute.

The minute, the minute that they decided to run, like, we're going to be more physical. Are you more physical? No? Okay. That means you're, you're not going to be able to do that, are you? That's my favorite. I feel like that's, I'm going to be tough. I feel like that's a thing you say when you accidentally gain 10 pounds because you weren't paying attention. You're like, well, I'm just going to be a brawler now.

Yeah, that ain't you, dude. Don't, don't do it. Yeah, we were just, God, we were bad at this. We said Wisconsin was going 7 and 5. We said Penn State was going 6 and 6. I know. I stand by that. I think Wisconsin is seven and five. I will give UCLA credit.

You went four and eight in like the quietest way possible. Nobody is talking about what a catastrophe UCLA football was this season because you are overshadowed in your own conference by Oregon doing the exact same thing. Can we talk about Oregon for a second? Might take more than a second. Yeah, yeah, I like talking about that because. there's this argument as to whether you should fire somebody

yeah right like there okay well what's your value right like what do you bring to the program when I ask you like what Mark Helperch brings to the program it would be evidenced by an administration that had not fired a coach since 1976 being loyal and really sweating through

firing him right yeah they were looking like two weeks ago that's that's that's where we're at in terms of in terms of yeah where mark helferich is where we're at is the name lane kiffin being thrown out who boy yeah so you want to talk to me about i don't know what value do you bring right uh yeah is it is it is it is it recruiting no no it's not these days there's none of that um boy is it coaching the players up do you get the most out of them over the course of no it's definitely not that either um do you hire good and impressive rising assistance

ah no i wouldn't say you do mark mark i'd say that's a weakness yeah so not much here but what exactly do you do you do you beat the do you beat the rival that you beat every year because that's just what You do, in this case, Oregon State. No, Mark Helfrich. No, you don't beat either of those, no. You do not. What I will say is this.

Coaching firing season in college football is always impressive because there are so many slap dick ways to go about it. There is what Texas did, which is sort of wait until independent Texas media, said that Tom Herman was going to go to LSU and then go get Tom Herman. which was kind of funny in its own way. There was LSU's reaction to that, which was insisting that they would never get in a bidding war, even though they pursued Jimbo fucking Fisher.

I'm not owned. And then there's what Oregon's doing, which, as last I've checked, you two know better than I do. They have let it leak that they are looking for a new head coach, but they have not currently even talk to the current one. It's like a, it's not like a, it's not like a, divorce it's like one of those it's fucking big at me is what it is it's like an uncoupling or

something you know like it's it's it's it's like an arranged kind of thing we're like uh my ex-wife is my best friend i like brian i like brian yeah we're staying together for mortgage purposes she's on the lease so um no i like brian floyd's suggestion i like brian floyd's suggestion that um they're just trying to ghost him that they're just hoping he'll just move on and be like man it's weird that they're They just stopped calling. That and... He shows up to recruit against Oregon's actual head coach.

Oh, awkward. That and you should also note the AD, right? The AD got a call from him, right? Like that's, let's just, let's drive that home. Let's drive that point home. The AD at Oregon got a call from the coach who said, oh, what's up with my job? It wasn't like, oh, let's review that.

No, no, no, no, no. Like, we'll get around to it, buddy. Also, oh, yeah, Phil Knight said in the locker room after the Oregon State job that there were 20 out of 25 teams that were outfitted by Nike, and he couldn't be more proud of the one in this locker room. The problem is that locker room was Ohio State where he was standing there. Yeah, he's super proud of Oregon. See, they're not in the top 25.

So, therefore, he's still more proud of, surely Phil Knight is really pretty proud of Oregon and it's just that ranking thing that that that's the only thing standing in the way. Let me give you one little thing about this too we're talking about recruiting. You want to know another thing that's going to lie a fire under everyone's

ass. Oregon's currently 27th in rivals rankings tick rivals rankings for what they're worth which is very little but they're at least a wind sock as to what direction a program is trending. Not that Oregon has ever been huge on recruiting just not a huge population

not a massive area they've done real well getting certain talented people in there and then develop their three stars real well guess who's 28 right behind them Oregon State uh oh that's right there homie like right behind you so yeah that that's what we're looking at in terms of getting people in what I what I like is that so there are five active athletic directors and yes I just called Barry Alvarez active interpret that as you will um that sit on the college football playoff selection committee. And originally when they announced sort of what the committee was going to be made, how it would be made up and who would be on it,

there was a lot of head scratching about like, well, you know, gosh, Dan Radikavich, if Clemson's in there, that's, you know, they're going to have to figure out recusals and all that. Rob Mullins, Oregon Athletic Director, has a very different problem right now. He has to go and advocate and seriously advocate, because it's not a sure thing on behalf of Washington. That's a thing he has to do. Yeah, yeah.

Well, oh, man. Yeah, he has to come, like, the thing they do is they say, okay, who have you seen in person? Let's get the real, the real on-site expertise to go with whatever other bullshit we use. And then Rob Mullins is going to be like, don't sleep on Nebraska, man. They're feisty. Listen, there are at least. seven or eight teams that are as good as Washington.

We need to expand the playoff to eight teams, one for everybody that beat Oregon. Oregon State. I saw them with my eyes. They were very impressive, very dominant, had a lot of game control. Cal is just outside the playoff. They're so close. Yeah. I mean, that's, man, I don't know what you do if you're Oregon.

Listen, you have a better plan. You can't decide, okay, you beat Utah. So now, like, that's the real problem is when you get to the end of the season, there has to be some sort of sense of like, we're doing this or we're not. Saying, okay, you know, Charlie Strong can save his job if he beats TCU or, oh, you beat Utah, so you're safe unless you lose. Like, it feels like splitting hairs in such a stupid way that I think you just need to, Once you get 10 games in, you should know if you're keeping this coach or not.

Now, if they turn the program around completely over the last three weeks or whatever, yeah, you can maybe have that conversation. But like, it's the same thing that almost happened with Ed Orgeron and LSU, where it was like these small margin games are really, you know, Oregon almost didn't beat Utah. Oregon literally came within an inch of not being Utah. and that was what put Mark Halfridge back in the safes?

None of it makes any goddamn sense. I mean, yeah, and I don't know who they, like, Texas, you can get, I think you can manufacture a lot of mostly artificial controversy about how they handled Charlie. Charlie knew he was done.

He knew he was fired. He wasn't going to be, it wasn't happening. They just had to wait. I still maintain anybody who says, well, you know, he had a chance. No, he didn't. No.

He didn't have a chance for, he didn't have a chance from the start. Steve Patterson hired him. Red McCombs didn't get consulted on it, so Red gets all itchy. Red gets all hit up because he's a wealthy Texan and you have to consult him about things like that. He didn't have a friend in the building after Steve Patterson was fired. Everybody liked him, but in terms of the booster base, he's never their pick. That may be fair or unfair, but that was those were the conditions. Now they have Tom Herman.

Tom Herman's going to have Mack Brown sitting right there his old boss. because he was a GA under him. By the way, he was the GA who rode on the hood or he rode on the car with Ricky Williams and the National Championship Parade. I think Tom Herman's job is to keep Ricky in because Ricky just might wander off. Like, ooh, that looks neat.

Come back in the car, Ricky. Come here. But yeah, they hired Herman. Herman's going to be a great fit. He'll be fine. Texas did pretty well. What the hell is Oregon do? That's how I want to end.

What the hell does Oregon do to hire a code? who's going to come in there because I got one answer and it's weird I mean you might as well start with weird because there is there are no conventional answers there are no like hot pack 12 assistance unless you want to go down to FCS in the area there I mean there are very few mid-major teams in the area the options are slim so let's get let's let's let's start weird row the duck okay I mean that's that weird though I mean like it's weird he's holding out for something in the midwest why would organ not take PJ flight yeah are we are we

recording during isn't Purdue announcing something today did that happen did I miss that no one knows who cares okay no one no one will be at the press conference where it'll filter out by Thursday or so I do you know what we talked about this last night um Louisville's AD announced I think last around like eight or nine o'clock he was like we we're having a press conference tomorrow, major major coaching news. Major coaching news after Louisville loses to Kentucky and you're like,

oh shit, something's going on. Nope, it's a new volleyball coach. Which does sort of relate to our man, Bobby Petraino. Volleyball.